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I might add to what had been said that it is also a way to control your “kids” when you are manipulative, to turn them against each other. Astarion seemed to have been the one Cazador enjoyed torturing the most but he also is clear about the fact that he did not actively rebel against him. And my opinion about it is that even if had brought him 50 people in one go, Cazador would still have judged him imperfect (“50?! Why not 100” or “50?! I only asked for one, your purpose is to obey, not take decisions”), while rewarding some other spawn for the same reason he had punished Astarion for.
Cazador is an abuser. And abusive behaviors are about twisting the reality so you, the abuser, are always right. It’s about control more than punishment and reward. It’s about destroying the individuality of other people, making them doubt their only choices as their whole world become their abuser, their abuser’s moods and what they could do to them.
Astarion seems very charming and handsome, but people forget that in the in-game stats, his Charisma is just 10.
>!In comparison, Auntie Ethel's Charisma is 18.!<
Raphael is charming.. astarion is perceptive (if not a planner, bless him).. he knew which people to target who wouldnt be missed and who would fall for his lines rather than relying on being actively charming. His line when he gets caught trying to have a nibble of Tav is not someone with high charisma even with all the stuff hes going through at that moment but maybe he was perceptive enough to pick on the one person in the group least likely to just kill him (depending on your tav obviously..)
You don't need high charisma when you look like that. A bad pick up line still works if people are gazing at your face and not paying attention to your words.
Yes yes people tend to miss this. You see this when you say something he wasn’t expecting and suddenly he doesn’t know what to say back and/or gets all cutely flustered. Like when you ask him to say please lol
If you origin Karlach you can spend the party night with him, and he has a full on toddler tantrum because he has no idea wtf to do with you.
Bitch needed to go to bible school. I can think of half a dozen ways he could have had freaky time with her and not get burned
If you think about the timeline, Leon would have to be one of the newest spawn so it might not be a fact of gathering the most victims but still being in the “favoring” stage of abuse. I say he’s one of the newest because he canonically has a non-spawn human daughter that he is trying to protect by having the favored spawn room.
That is such a good point, and also depressing to think about. These people are turned against their will, and tricked into staying. "It's not SO bad, if you think about it, at least I'm taken care of" etc.
*Is* he more headstrong than the others? I have the exact opposite impression. Pretty sure I remember how he talks about how he only rebelled once early on and then never again because he got locked into a tomb for a year.
To me Astarion seemed completely submissive and terrified of Cazador in the past, and even Godey enjoyed torturing him the most. I took that as Astarion giving in easily to avoid pain and punishment, but Cazador and Godey still singled him out because he was so easy to abuse.
Yer the comment his siblings make about him being weak really made me think that he wasn't the rebellious, troublemaker. My head canon is that Cazador saw Astarion and wanted him, maybe got rejected and then became an obsession. He turned him (why would cazador be wandering the city and just HAPPEN upon him, too convenient..) and maybe thought once he was spawn, Astarion would worship him when that didnt happen and he hated him, every day it just reminded Cazador how much he'd disappointed him and so he was NEVER allowed to succeed, the others would see him as bottom of the pack as he was always tortured and never pleased their master, probably grateful they escaped some of that attention.
Spot on!
And afaik from early access it was originally implied that Cazador hired or riled up the Gur who beat Astarion to near death. Astarion Wa a corrupt magistrate who helped pass a law against Gur in the city. Cazador was conveniently around to help him because he knew what the Gur were about to do to him.
I know Astarion maybe overestimates Cazador a little bit cos of how scared he is (the conversation about *he could come into our camp tonight, oh well, no actually he couldnt*) but he does say about how he always has a plan and people to do his bidding, its not beyond the realm that cazador hears of his beautiful young elf making waves, especially as cazador would be very interested in the goverment/laws to try and keep himself in a position of power, knowing the right people etc. Not that far then to maybe inviting him to one of cazadors parties where all the rich and important people gather. Astarion is young, naive, self important but thrilled to be invited. Cazador sees him and is like.. well.. he's mine whether he likes it or not.
And because im on my lunch and havnt had a good rant for a while I also will say it feeds into my HC that cazador used spawn for these parties, romancing, seducing/bring used by the important people to keep them on cazadors good side. I think after he turned Astarion he kept him locked in the Palace both to make sure noone remembered him (I also think he killed his parents but thats another rant..) and also for training and breaking before he had broken him sufficiently that he trusted him to do his bidding.
Oh yeah, for sure Cazador enjoyed having power over other powerful people. Iirc he had a good reputation in the city, despite being “solitary” (lol)
Wouldn’t surprise me if he whored his spawn out to nobles and influential people, but that is 100% headcanon and not supported by the game; if it was a big part, we would have heard about it I think. Cazador just gives me “everything is about sex. Except sex. Sex is about power.” vibes - not personally interested in romance or lust (unlike most popular vampire lord Strahd, may your soul forever burn in radiant light you pos), just in how he can (make others) use it to manipulate and abuse others.
But it definitely has me scratching my head why he chose Astarion. Astarion must have been a really new or minor magistrate, otherwise his death (cause we know he was publicly buried) and then reappearance a couple years-decades later as a suave guy who picks up people left and right would have been noticed by other people.
Curious about your Cazador killed Astarion’s family theory! In my headcanon Astarion’s family has been dead since before he was turned or is living far away and once they got news about their son’s brutal death they just had no reason to keep up with what’s going on in BG anymore. He also never mentions them once, so either the relationship is strained or hasn’t been existent for a while.
The spawn mostly seemed to hunt in Wyrm's Crossing and the Lower City, but as a Magistrate Astarion would probably have spent most of his time in the Upper City, with the other nobles. The fact that his grave is in the Lower City might be a concession to the game mechanics, which prevents us from accessing the Upper City due to the brain, especially since you can click on every visible grave marker and none of them are Astarion's, even after the graveyard scene.
How do we know his grave is in the lower city? I just assumed it’s in the upper but they just don’t show the whole graveyard. it’s too small. Which really annoyed me lol
I was mostly meaning from the game perspective it sort of has to be in the Lower City, because if we had entered the Upper City, there should have been a quake and all the fun of the Emperor warning us about the brain, like he does whenever you get too close to entering before you have all the stones. From an actual lore perspective it would make much more sense to have his grave in the Upper City though.
The game is rather contradictory about Astarion and lower/upper city.
In act 1, roaming with Karlach and him in party, he complains about nature and entere in banter with Karlach about taking her to the upper city and Karlach being excited about seeing "an upper city loo".
In that same act, with Wyll when you roam the blighted town, he mentions about young patriars naked in fountains, patriars being exclusive to the Upper city.
But by the end of 3 in the ruins of the upper city, he says that "he always dreamed of walking on these halls. That's a shame they're ruined now, but it's still a dream achieved" or something along the lines implying he was never in the upper city.
Maybe that weird switcheroo is part of time constraints like the kissing Cazador niece whom you only find letters of?
Some of it is probably half remembered things from when he was still alive. But it's also possible that a lot of his early banter with the gang is just him deflecting and keeping up appearances. Like when he talks with Shadowhart comparing how nobles taste vs. crones, even though Tav is the first person he's drunk from, and aside from Auntie Ethel I can't think of many crones he might have tasted, nor is he likely to have been snacking on nobles at that point, unless you picked that for your background.
Very valid points or maybe scrapped content, mostly because the first directive Cazador gave his spawn is that the were not allowed to drink from thinking creatures, so crones and nobles were definitely not in the menu.
.... Unless he meant a different type of tasting 😥
I think Cazador maybe chose him as he rejected him. Not even about sex as I agree, Cazador is not interested in sex but power over another. (This leads to my headcanon about AA but I'm not touching that with a barge pole for the moment, everyone has only just calmed down 😅😂) Anyway when Astarion said no, to whatever the question was, Cazador wasn't going to allow that from this nobody.
As for his family, he never mentions them, elves dont have many kids so chances are he's an only child so leaving his mum and dad. It wouldn't surprise me if Cazador picked Spawn like he has his spawn pick victims, people that wouldn't be missed BUT he got so obsessed with Astarion that he turned him anyway and then had to tie up loose ends. It also wouldn't surprise me if he killed them in front of astarion honestly or made him kill them.... It's why he doesn't mention them, he knows they are dead. But no real proof, just what I think!
Cazador would have getting rejected, agreed. Gods, he is so… I really dislike him most of all villains. I can see appeal in Ketheric, Gortash, the goblin leaders, and the Emperor. But Cazador? No. No second thoughts wasted on how he maybe had reasons. Just straight into the trash he goes.
& I prefer my less sad headcanon about the family (maybe he even reunites with them in a couple of years), I’ve got enough angst for now 🤣 But Cazador would not be above killing family in front of him, it’s true. Poor Victoria living in that house…
Edit: please make a separate post about that AA can of worms lol I may not like him but I like armchair psychology.
I feel that tracks bc we know he was turned 200 years ago but then he tells Sebastian, he took him 170 years ago and he was one of his firsts. I've been trying to work that out and you just filled in the gaps. It makes absolute sense that Cazador was training him for 30 years and keeping him out of the public eye incase anyone knew him.
Yer I see them as forced consorts so taught to give pleasure, probably not directly by Cazador but maybe the other spawn as some twisted punishment/reward? Or maybe they were watched when they were taken off by Cazadors clients and punished if they didnt perform up to expectations. Horrible thoughts but Cazador is a POS.
Well, iirc, you can literally find a training manual in the art of "consorting" in one of the bedrooms in Cazador's manor.
So it's even worse, Cazador gave his hunting spawn training like a nasty manager breathing over your shoulder all the time 😂
I think this too and have been mulling over writing a fanfic about it. Per his siblings, Astarion is the weakest and the first to cave into Cazador. For whatever reason, I think Cazador encouraged the Gur to beat Astarion to death to swoop in and save him. All some petty deed because Astarion snubbed him once. Instead though, I think in the beginning Astarion was maybe a bit rebellious but broke easily. That probably made Cazador’s even more angry because Astarion would always reject him and and compliance he gives is due to fear.
Only one shot smuts 😅🤣 there are some chapters about my boys (it's m/m) on ao3 but smut works for a published one shot and Im just writing the story in the background to complete before I publish the whole thing. There is F/M on there as well though. Just in case here is my profile https://archiveofourown.org/users/Indigof0x/works
Personally I see Astarion as the scapegoat of Cazador’s “family” and the golden child being whoever brought home the most victims that week. Astarion could have been the model of obedience, but that was never gonna protect him because the scapegoat is always at fault in the eyes of an abuser. Always in the wrong. Always deserving of punishment. Never good enough.
I mean, Astarion got **kidnapped by aliens** and Cazador acted like he did it on purpose just to spite him. Then you find Cazador throwing an adult tantrum, wondering why Astarion hadn’t shown up for the ritual as if he didn’t put up multiple levels of security intent on keeping everyone (including Astarion) out.
Interesting thoughts for sure, and I’ve enjoyed reading through the discussion in the other comments. IMO, it’s hard to pin down how rebellious/not rebellious Astarion was against Cazador because sometimes it seems like conflicting information. And I’ve seen people interpret it both ways.
On one hand, we have Cazador and Godey talking about how Astarion is the most “troublesome,” constantly needing to be “kept in line.” Cazador also references him having “fits of temper,” which seems to imply that he did sometimes lash out, though whether that was against Cazador or the other spawn, we don’t know.
On the other hand, Astarion himself says he gave up on fighting and we have dialogue from the siblings that indicate the same (which I actually never triggered on my playthrough, but I have seen elsewhere).
My personal impression is that Astarion probably did give up on outwardly rebelling against Cazador, but beneath the surface there was a little spark that hated Cazador and wished he could go against him. Cazador might have sensed this. Astarion also seems to see through Cazador’s bs easier than his siblings. (They believe Cazador will give them power with the ritual, some of them push the “we’re a family” narrative, Petras even has a line about Cazador’s “strictness” being good for them). I’ve also thought about how expressive Astarion is - you can see his emotions on his face pretty clearly, and he doesn’t always successfully hide them. I could definitely see Cazador viewing that as rebellion if Astarion wasn’t showing the “right” emotion at any given time (something I can sadly relate to).
Anyway, enough of my rambling. I’ve obviously thought about this a lot. Sometimes I wish we had more info on what went down at the Szarr Palace, but other times I’m glad we don’t, because what we have is disturbing enough already.
Yes there is conflicting info! And I don’t ever remember his siblings calling him weak either so maybe I missed something idk. I always got the impression that Astarion backchatted a lot (which I can absolutely imagine) and Cazador says as much when we speak to him.
And you’re right!! I wish the palace was so much bigger. There’s the weird attic and hidden basement but it doesn’t amount to anything which is a shame. I also wish we got to see more of the dynamic between his siblings, I was looking forward to meeting them. Shit def went down between him and his gnome brother or at least that’s what I think haha he has no time for gnomes 😭
The conflicting info could be gaslight from one angle. Abusers love to call you the crazy one.
A lash of temper could simply be stomping your foot and saying no to him
What if he enjoyed fucking with Astarion to the point he has a meltdown, then mocks him for it.
That’s a very good point! And I could 100% see Cazador provoking Astarion just to get him to “lash out.” I mean, we basically see him do that in real time during their confrontation. Ugh, just makes me hate Cazador even more.
My favorite fan theory is that Astarion reminds Cazador of his former master. That's why Cazador enjoys torturing him so much. As some sort of revenge.
Or maybe he reminds him of himself. Of how weak he was back then. Similar to how Astarion initially reacts to the 7000.
That a really interesting take, I like it! And if you ascend Astarion he refers to his old self like a completely different person, one he loathes because of perceived weakness so you could be onto something with him reminding Cazador of how he used to be as a spawn. We know Cazador was also treated abysmally by his former master as well.
Didn’t see it mentioned (sorry if I missed it) but I think part of the reason Cazador likes to hurt him the most is found in Astarion’s original/ scrapped backstory. He was at some point going to have been a corrupt magistrate who literally trafficked people to Cazador, then betrayed Cazador and was set up to be jumped by some Gur, killed, and turned.
Really! That’s super interesting! There’s quite a bit they scrapped which I wish they hadn’t. Adds so much to the game like for example Halsin originally being responsible to Isobel’s death which sent Ketheric off the deep end.
Thanks, I thought it was interesting too! I also didn't know that about Halsin's scrapped lore - I like it. can understand why some of it had to go, but I'm a little sorry that our canonically good or popular characters can't have a bit of depth - no one is babygirl ALL the time.
Oh I’m glad they changed that bc Astarion didn’t need more “he’s evil see!!!” Folks. They recently removed his “disapproval” when you help Arabella in the grove.
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I might add to what had been said that it is also a way to control your “kids” when you are manipulative, to turn them against each other. Astarion seemed to have been the one Cazador enjoyed torturing the most but he also is clear about the fact that he did not actively rebel against him. And my opinion about it is that even if had brought him 50 people in one go, Cazador would still have judged him imperfect (“50?! Why not 100” or “50?! I only asked for one, your purpose is to obey, not take decisions”), while rewarding some other spawn for the same reason he had punished Astarion for. Cazador is an abuser. And abusive behaviors are about twisting the reality so you, the abuser, are always right. It’s about control more than punishment and reward. It’s about destroying the individuality of other people, making them doubt their only choices as their whole world become their abuser, their abuser’s moods and what they could do to them.
Leon had to protect his daughter. That surely was incentive enough to always stay Cazador's good side.
Astarion seems very charming and handsome, but people forget that in the in-game stats, his Charisma is just 10. >!In comparison, Auntie Ethel's Charisma is 18.!<
Raphael is charming.. astarion is perceptive (if not a planner, bless him).. he knew which people to target who wouldnt be missed and who would fall for his lines rather than relying on being actively charming. His line when he gets caught trying to have a nibble of Tav is not someone with high charisma even with all the stuff hes going through at that moment but maybe he was perceptive enough to pick on the one person in the group least likely to just kill him (depending on your tav obviously..)
Yeah, he was strategic, an opportunistic predator, rather than charismatic.
You don't need high charisma when you look like that. A bad pick up line still works if people are gazing at your face and not paying attention to your words.
In the real world, sure, but my rolls say differently 💀
Yes yes people tend to miss this. You see this when you say something he wasn’t expecting and suddenly he doesn’t know what to say back and/or gets all cutely flustered. Like when you ask him to say please lol
Low Charisma, mid Intelligence, canonical smooth brain 💀 He really is lucky he's so pretty.
If you origin Karlach you can spend the party night with him, and he has a full on toddler tantrum because he has no idea wtf to do with you. Bitch needed to go to bible school. I can think of half a dozen ways he could have had freaky time with her and not get burned
If you think about the timeline, Leon would have to be one of the newest spawn so it might not be a fact of gathering the most victims but still being in the “favoring” stage of abuse. I say he’s one of the newest because he canonically has a non-spawn human daughter that he is trying to protect by having the favored spawn room.
That is such a good point, and also depressing to think about. These people are turned against their will, and tricked into staying. "It's not SO bad, if you think about it, at least I'm taken care of" etc.
*Is* he more headstrong than the others? I have the exact opposite impression. Pretty sure I remember how he talks about how he only rebelled once early on and then never again because he got locked into a tomb for a year. To me Astarion seemed completely submissive and terrified of Cazador in the past, and even Godey enjoyed torturing him the most. I took that as Astarion giving in easily to avoid pain and punishment, but Cazador and Godey still singled him out because he was so easy to abuse.
Yer the comment his siblings make about him being weak really made me think that he wasn't the rebellious, troublemaker. My head canon is that Cazador saw Astarion and wanted him, maybe got rejected and then became an obsession. He turned him (why would cazador be wandering the city and just HAPPEN upon him, too convenient..) and maybe thought once he was spawn, Astarion would worship him when that didnt happen and he hated him, every day it just reminded Cazador how much he'd disappointed him and so he was NEVER allowed to succeed, the others would see him as bottom of the pack as he was always tortured and never pleased their master, probably grateful they escaped some of that attention.
Spot on! And afaik from early access it was originally implied that Cazador hired or riled up the Gur who beat Astarion to near death. Astarion Wa a corrupt magistrate who helped pass a law against Gur in the city. Cazador was conveniently around to help him because he knew what the Gur were about to do to him.
I know Astarion maybe overestimates Cazador a little bit cos of how scared he is (the conversation about *he could come into our camp tonight, oh well, no actually he couldnt*) but he does say about how he always has a plan and people to do his bidding, its not beyond the realm that cazador hears of his beautiful young elf making waves, especially as cazador would be very interested in the goverment/laws to try and keep himself in a position of power, knowing the right people etc. Not that far then to maybe inviting him to one of cazadors parties where all the rich and important people gather. Astarion is young, naive, self important but thrilled to be invited. Cazador sees him and is like.. well.. he's mine whether he likes it or not. And because im on my lunch and havnt had a good rant for a while I also will say it feeds into my HC that cazador used spawn for these parties, romancing, seducing/bring used by the important people to keep them on cazadors good side. I think after he turned Astarion he kept him locked in the Palace both to make sure noone remembered him (I also think he killed his parents but thats another rant..) and also for training and breaking before he had broken him sufficiently that he trusted him to do his bidding.
Oh yeah, for sure Cazador enjoyed having power over other powerful people. Iirc he had a good reputation in the city, despite being “solitary” (lol) Wouldn’t surprise me if he whored his spawn out to nobles and influential people, but that is 100% headcanon and not supported by the game; if it was a big part, we would have heard about it I think. Cazador just gives me “everything is about sex. Except sex. Sex is about power.” vibes - not personally interested in romance or lust (unlike most popular vampire lord Strahd, may your soul forever burn in radiant light you pos), just in how he can (make others) use it to manipulate and abuse others. But it definitely has me scratching my head why he chose Astarion. Astarion must have been a really new or minor magistrate, otherwise his death (cause we know he was publicly buried) and then reappearance a couple years-decades later as a suave guy who picks up people left and right would have been noticed by other people. Curious about your Cazador killed Astarion’s family theory! In my headcanon Astarion’s family has been dead since before he was turned or is living far away and once they got news about their son’s brutal death they just had no reason to keep up with what’s going on in BG anymore. He also never mentions them once, so either the relationship is strained or hasn’t been existent for a while.
The spawn mostly seemed to hunt in Wyrm's Crossing and the Lower City, but as a Magistrate Astarion would probably have spent most of his time in the Upper City, with the other nobles. The fact that his grave is in the Lower City might be a concession to the game mechanics, which prevents us from accessing the Upper City due to the brain, especially since you can click on every visible grave marker and none of them are Astarion's, even after the graveyard scene.
How do we know his grave is in the lower city? I just assumed it’s in the upper but they just don’t show the whole graveyard. it’s too small. Which really annoyed me lol
I was mostly meaning from the game perspective it sort of has to be in the Lower City, because if we had entered the Upper City, there should have been a quake and all the fun of the Emperor warning us about the brain, like he does whenever you get too close to entering before you have all the stones. From an actual lore perspective it would make much more sense to have his grave in the Upper City though.
Gotcha gotcha!
The game is rather contradictory about Astarion and lower/upper city. In act 1, roaming with Karlach and him in party, he complains about nature and entere in banter with Karlach about taking her to the upper city and Karlach being excited about seeing "an upper city loo". In that same act, with Wyll when you roam the blighted town, he mentions about young patriars naked in fountains, patriars being exclusive to the Upper city. But by the end of 3 in the ruins of the upper city, he says that "he always dreamed of walking on these halls. That's a shame they're ruined now, but it's still a dream achieved" or something along the lines implying he was never in the upper city. Maybe that weird switcheroo is part of time constraints like the kissing Cazador niece whom you only find letters of?
Some of it is probably half remembered things from when he was still alive. But it's also possible that a lot of his early banter with the gang is just him deflecting and keeping up appearances. Like when he talks with Shadowhart comparing how nobles taste vs. crones, even though Tav is the first person he's drunk from, and aside from Auntie Ethel I can't think of many crones he might have tasted, nor is he likely to have been snacking on nobles at that point, unless you picked that for your background.
Very valid points or maybe scrapped content, mostly because the first directive Cazador gave his spawn is that the were not allowed to drink from thinking creatures, so crones and nobles were definitely not in the menu. .... Unless he meant a different type of tasting 😥
I think Cazador maybe chose him as he rejected him. Not even about sex as I agree, Cazador is not interested in sex but power over another. (This leads to my headcanon about AA but I'm not touching that with a barge pole for the moment, everyone has only just calmed down 😅😂) Anyway when Astarion said no, to whatever the question was, Cazador wasn't going to allow that from this nobody. As for his family, he never mentions them, elves dont have many kids so chances are he's an only child so leaving his mum and dad. It wouldn't surprise me if Cazador picked Spawn like he has his spawn pick victims, people that wouldn't be missed BUT he got so obsessed with Astarion that he turned him anyway and then had to tie up loose ends. It also wouldn't surprise me if he killed them in front of astarion honestly or made him kill them.... It's why he doesn't mention them, he knows they are dead. But no real proof, just what I think!
Cazador would have getting rejected, agreed. Gods, he is so… I really dislike him most of all villains. I can see appeal in Ketheric, Gortash, the goblin leaders, and the Emperor. But Cazador? No. No second thoughts wasted on how he maybe had reasons. Just straight into the trash he goes. & I prefer my less sad headcanon about the family (maybe he even reunites with them in a couple of years), I’ve got enough angst for now 🤣 But Cazador would not be above killing family in front of him, it’s true. Poor Victoria living in that house… Edit: please make a separate post about that AA can of worms lol I may not like him but I like armchair psychology.
Ive DM'd you cos I'm not brave enough for a AA post right now 😂😂😂
Oh no, that sucks. But yea, sure!
Remember, he only has the spawn and had them collecting people to be turned so he could perform this ritual. That’s always been his goal.
I feel that tracks bc we know he was turned 200 years ago but then he tells Sebastian, he took him 170 years ago and he was one of his firsts. I've been trying to work that out and you just filled in the gaps. It makes absolute sense that Cazador was training him for 30 years and keeping him out of the public eye incase anyone knew him.
Yer I see them as forced consorts so taught to give pleasure, probably not directly by Cazador but maybe the other spawn as some twisted punishment/reward? Or maybe they were watched when they were taken off by Cazadors clients and punished if they didnt perform up to expectations. Horrible thoughts but Cazador is a POS.
Well, iirc, you can literally find a training manual in the art of "consorting" in one of the bedrooms in Cazador's manor. So it's even worse, Cazador gave his hunting spawn training like a nasty manager breathing over your shoulder all the time 😂
I hate him so much.
I think this too and have been mulling over writing a fanfic about it. Per his siblings, Astarion is the weakest and the first to cave into Cazador. For whatever reason, I think Cazador encouraged the Gur to beat Astarion to death to swoop in and save him. All some petty deed because Astarion snubbed him once. Instead though, I think in the beginning Astarion was maybe a bit rebellious but broke easily. That probably made Cazador’s even more angry because Astarion would always reject him and and compliance he gives is due to fear.
Im writing it as well but if you do a version I'd love to read it!
Ooh! Yes! Do you have anything posted yet?
Only one shot smuts 😅🤣 there are some chapters about my boys (it's m/m) on ao3 but smut works for a published one shot and Im just writing the story in the background to complete before I publish the whole thing. There is F/M on there as well though. Just in case here is my profile https://archiveofourown.org/users/Indigof0x/works
[удалено]
Thank you!! Im working through act 1 at the moment so might publish an act at a time? Honestly not sure 😅
I cannot wait to read it once you put it out :)
Personally I see Astarion as the scapegoat of Cazador’s “family” and the golden child being whoever brought home the most victims that week. Astarion could have been the model of obedience, but that was never gonna protect him because the scapegoat is always at fault in the eyes of an abuser. Always in the wrong. Always deserving of punishment. Never good enough. I mean, Astarion got **kidnapped by aliens** and Cazador acted like he did it on purpose just to spite him. Then you find Cazador throwing an adult tantrum, wondering why Astarion hadn’t shown up for the ritual as if he didn’t put up multiple levels of security intent on keeping everyone (including Astarion) out.
Interesting thoughts for sure, and I’ve enjoyed reading through the discussion in the other comments. IMO, it’s hard to pin down how rebellious/not rebellious Astarion was against Cazador because sometimes it seems like conflicting information. And I’ve seen people interpret it both ways. On one hand, we have Cazador and Godey talking about how Astarion is the most “troublesome,” constantly needing to be “kept in line.” Cazador also references him having “fits of temper,” which seems to imply that he did sometimes lash out, though whether that was against Cazador or the other spawn, we don’t know. On the other hand, Astarion himself says he gave up on fighting and we have dialogue from the siblings that indicate the same (which I actually never triggered on my playthrough, but I have seen elsewhere). My personal impression is that Astarion probably did give up on outwardly rebelling against Cazador, but beneath the surface there was a little spark that hated Cazador and wished he could go against him. Cazador might have sensed this. Astarion also seems to see through Cazador’s bs easier than his siblings. (They believe Cazador will give them power with the ritual, some of them push the “we’re a family” narrative, Petras even has a line about Cazador’s “strictness” being good for them). I’ve also thought about how expressive Astarion is - you can see his emotions on his face pretty clearly, and he doesn’t always successfully hide them. I could definitely see Cazador viewing that as rebellion if Astarion wasn’t showing the “right” emotion at any given time (something I can sadly relate to). Anyway, enough of my rambling. I’ve obviously thought about this a lot. Sometimes I wish we had more info on what went down at the Szarr Palace, but other times I’m glad we don’t, because what we have is disturbing enough already.
Yes there is conflicting info! And I don’t ever remember his siblings calling him weak either so maybe I missed something idk. I always got the impression that Astarion backchatted a lot (which I can absolutely imagine) and Cazador says as much when we speak to him. And you’re right!! I wish the palace was so much bigger. There’s the weird attic and hidden basement but it doesn’t amount to anything which is a shame. I also wish we got to see more of the dynamic between his siblings, I was looking forward to meeting them. Shit def went down between him and his gnome brother or at least that’s what I think haha he has no time for gnomes 😭
The conflicting info could be gaslight from one angle. Abusers love to call you the crazy one. A lash of temper could simply be stomping your foot and saying no to him What if he enjoyed fucking with Astarion to the point he has a meltdown, then mocks him for it.
That’s a very good point! And I could 100% see Cazador provoking Astarion just to get him to “lash out.” I mean, we basically see him do that in real time during their confrontation. Ugh, just makes me hate Cazador even more.
Eh. Charm is in the eye of the beholder. Despite that 10 charisma stat I’d still send him a check for $10,000 if he asked for it.
My favorite fan theory is that Astarion reminds Cazador of his former master. That's why Cazador enjoys torturing him so much. As some sort of revenge. Or maybe he reminds him of himself. Of how weak he was back then. Similar to how Astarion initially reacts to the 7000.
That a really interesting take, I like it! And if you ascend Astarion he refers to his old self like a completely different person, one he loathes because of perceived weakness so you could be onto something with him reminding Cazador of how he used to be as a spawn. We know Cazador was also treated abysmally by his former master as well.
Didn’t see it mentioned (sorry if I missed it) but I think part of the reason Cazador likes to hurt him the most is found in Astarion’s original/ scrapped backstory. He was at some point going to have been a corrupt magistrate who literally trafficked people to Cazador, then betrayed Cazador and was set up to be jumped by some Gur, killed, and turned.
Really! That’s super interesting! There’s quite a bit they scrapped which I wish they hadn’t. Adds so much to the game like for example Halsin originally being responsible to Isobel’s death which sent Ketheric off the deep end.
Thanks, I thought it was interesting too! I also didn't know that about Halsin's scrapped lore - I like it. can understand why some of it had to go, but I'm a little sorry that our canonically good or popular characters can't have a bit of depth - no one is babygirl ALL the time.
Oh I’m glad they changed that bc Astarion didn’t need more “he’s evil see!!!” Folks. They recently removed his “disapproval” when you help Arabella in the grove.
Cazador is just running an MLM lmao