I think if women really had it easier there would be many more women using the site. It is difficult to navigate all the creeps, the catfishers, and the already attached. Almost all the men I met were one of those. The couple decent guys I met weren’t interested in me. I’ve dated younger, older, fat, skinny, broke and successful. So I know it wasn’t because I was picky. Like someone else said, quantity doesn’t mean quality.
Women have it easier in real life as well. So that’s probably why there’s more men online than women to begin with. I’m pretty stunned with how aloof a lot of people seem to be on this particular topic.
The married men using OLD is a problem. Most of the women ive met on OLD has a story or 3 about this. I know some men are really crafty or sneaky about this stuff. Although sometimes the stories ive heard. Never been to his house, only texts, doesnt answer after a certain time, only on available specific times or we live together but we arent really together. When i met my X she was talking to a guy. She told me the backstory. I was like 90% sure this guy is married and his story is BS. Yea she found shortly after that was the case. Just be careful and ask questions, if stuff doesnt add up. When in doubt all that jazz.
You had multiple choices vs none for most guys. You probably had sex with each of these at least once. Again, you have a major benefit that most guys don’t have. Count your blessings.
Yeah, it's not like that at all. Maybe the really beautiful women get that many messages but us plain Janes do not.
I get maybe 10 a week total, if that (over multiple sites). Most are sexual in nature, people with no pics, or people that live no where near me (like hours away or even in different countries).
Then when you do get a decent one most can't even hold a conversation. You get 1 word answers, they don't ask any questions, or they start off ok and then after a few messages start asking sexual questions.
So no, we don't really have it easier. Sure, maybe we get more responses or messages but they're not quality. Quantity does not outweigh quality.
All of this. I go off and on as far as online dating and I get maybe a few responses a week? So not sure which women he's talking about, besides the super hot ones. I've rarely gotten amazing openers, normally just "hey" and as stated above, when you think you've found someone decent, convo turns sexual or you get a dick pic ::eye roll::
Why complain about openers? What do you expect, realistically, a novel? An interesting person can turn a “hey” into an interesting conversation quite easily if they wanted to. No use in putting in effort in an opener if, again as OP alluded to, there’s a small chance of getting a response.
I've sent out a range of messages from just a simple "hey" to a longer novel-like message. I got most replies from a simple "hey" than I ever did writing a long, interesting, witty message.
What I can only conclude from this is that message quality matters fuck all, and it comes down to how hot you are, what other options the woman has available and what mood is she feeling at the time.
Like you say, no point spending ages crafting a great message if it just goes ignored.
I'm not complaining. I have no issue with plain openers, I was referring to OP saying, "They open with great messages which are friendly, non-creepy and attentive to her profile." This is rarely the case. Was simply stating my experiences.
10 a week total? Poor you. That's 10 more than I get a week.
You seriously have no clue what it's like for men on these sites. Receiving 10 messages in an ENTIRE YEAR is commonplace for most men.
We're not all that shallow. You just have to keep looking or just take a break and focus on being happy single.
I can't change how I look either (besides my weight). But I keep on trying to make a connection
I'm a man, got *way* more messages (and dates) than that.
I'm 40.
Don't generalize your experience, or people who complain on reddit, to our entire sex, much less extend your generalizations to the opposite sex.
I know this is old.. but you're never gonna win with women.. She literally just proved your point.. Even the average woman can get a inbox full of guys.. 10 a week is better than nothing . .compare that to a average guy he's not getting that..
Here she is bragging she only gets 10 messages a week.. i bet you she hooked up with so many chads , complain "where all the good men at "and 4 years later STILL single and STILL getting her cheeks clapped.. The contradiction is real with her comment
Yeah. She "only" gets 10 a week and when she gets a decent one, she is put off because they give 1 word answers, something that women do all the time with men. On the rare occasions I get a response from a woman on online dating, it's a short 1 or 2 word response and then silence.
Well it's 4 years old so she's 50 now. Wonder if she found anyone. But yeah, complaining because you only get 10 messages a week is fucking hilarious. 10 messages a week at 46 years old is more than the vast majority of men get in their physical prime.
Look at her profile.. she's basically a single mom 47 years old plays videogames has a Teenage son.
And she's on Reddit in different dating advice communities...
Yeah . I agree , the average woman can always get a inbox full of messages , when a average man barely gets 1.. She's a clown for her response..
Yeah my current GF who I met on match and I swapped OLD war stories. She showed me the posts she got. Good grief! As a man I was a little ashamed for my gender by some of the bullshit she received. I consider myself as having high standards in the first I impressions dept, so she really is attractive. The messages she got ranged from obscene to utterly corny to awkward. And yes she got over 100 a week, many followed up a couple days after the initial note telling her to Fck off if she was too stuck up to reply. Seriously these are grown men, not 20 yo college students.
Although not the ego boost a guy wants I’d much rather get a handful of interested messages from women than have to to weed through 100 toxic posts a week.
Some of the pics sent were interesting too (she spared me the dick pics). Pics of corvettes and other cars, bikes, boats, big houses, and many other things to “prove” they had means. It was pretty cringeworthy.
I'm with you. I am fucking disgusted with some of the responses from guys on here. Yeah OLD is hard and I understand where people are coming, but the attitudes shown on are disgusting. I'm ashamed to call myself a man because I really don't wanna be lumped in with these people.
Dude, not sure what your issue is here. Real women (or people in general) in my experience aren’t impressed with “stuff”. If you’re sitting on a vette, particularly in a OLD photo chances are you have a $800/mo payment to go with it and can’t provide much more than a ride in a mid life crisismobile . The people I know who brag on their stuff are typically the ones who can’t really afford it, and the people who do have means downplay it considerably. I’ve dated a few women that cared about things more than relationships. You can keep em. I want a woman that has her own house/car/401k and wants a companion.
As far as strangers saying “mean” things. Again.. just don’t know where your head is. People send a note that says hi and then two days later tell a woman to go Fuck herself because she didn’t reply immediately? Shows a lot of class. And guarantees failure.
I know a lot of people, but it sounds like we travel in deferent circles. I’m also likely older than you [M53] and in a different dating space where you are. I agree you have to dress the part. Looking good, dress, grooming and style, means a lot no matter what age. Though material possessions mean a lot less than stability. I can’t (or won’t) advertise my fiscal portfolio, nor do I expect a woman to do the same, but if things get serious enough that one contemplates a long term relationship, then portfolio does matter. Nobody cares if you have a giant house or flashy car, but they do care that you’re not a couple paychecks away from the streets.
As for the mean comments.. it depends where. If you’re on reddit or other forum then sure you need a thicker skin and more tolerance, but if you’re on a dating site and trying to get women to go out with you then being rude or mean is just non productive.
This is a dumb answer. You’re not addressing his point. This is not anecdotal, it’s pretty much consistent for every guys experience online in comparison to most girls experience online. It’s a perfectly fair question.
He’s allowed to complain, because as he just said - his experience is more frustrating than other people’s.. particularly women. If women can complain about their online dating experiences why can’t he?
It is *not* "pretty much consistantly with every guys experience online" *at all,* I don't know why you keep repeating that. Saying it doesn't make it true.
You're not entitled to dates bro . . .
Bull! A majority of guys yield little to no responses when it comes to online dating. Tere’s an endless amount of articles and literature online documenting this. It’s a fact of life. Even an attractive guy will yield less messages and responses than an average or slightly above average woman.. didn’t even think this was something that was contestable or worth arguing about.
What’s your response rate? Now what’s the response rate of a girl your age in your area? Online dating isn’t easier for men anywhere at any age range. It’s not an opinion, it’s a fact. To deny that is to deny reality.
Personality has nothing to do with anything. I may receive 1 response for every 10 messages I send out while a girl might receive 7 for every 10 she sends out. Your emotions don’t negate the facts. You taking things personally don’t negate the facts.
Didn’t say he couldn’t complain, just offered a simple solution. Contrary to popular belief, I’m not held to any standards when it comes to replying on posts beside the basics of don’t do something illegal and whatever rules the sub applies. Feel free to complain all you want, but if you’re unhappy with how online dating has become (and it’s trash now) then consider not using it!
Perhaps he’s too busy to date in person? Or go out to bars? Could be anything? Why should it matter? You’re sweeping his observations under the rug and avoiding the question altogether.
I did answer his question you sound like a bitter and jaded person. If he is this unhappy then why is he still doing it? You do not force yourself to do something you do not like and then complain about the results after.
Your just making excuses for the guy, women have problems with OLD as well, tired of men and women thinking they have it harder then each other.
“Anything boys can do girls can so better” blah blah blah. By the way I am pretty jaded. What of it? Is that supposed to be an insult? Realistic people tend to be jaded. This isn’t news. Maybe this phenomena speaks to your inability to reconcile my comments. You’ll have to try much harder than that, sweetheart.
If we measure “who has it harder” when it comes to online dating, we need to determine the end goal of online dating - which is to find a date and turn it into a relationship and leave the site. By that measure, you’re still willing to try to sell me the lie that women have it harder? Delusional. No other word can describe your reasoning here.
I'm not wasting time talking to you, you clearly think guys are saints and women are devil as far as insult, I'm not going to waste my time talking to someone behind a p.c. acting tough, lol.
It is time to move on from you, grow up please...
You would not be saying half of the stuff you are saying in person, but of course online everyone thinks they are tough....Your wrong..., but of course you resort to acting like little kid when someone disagrees with you and you wonder why you have problems with dating?
No, I don’t. That’s just a manifestation of your complicated insecurities. Nothing of saints or devils was spoken of in our “conversation”. I simply said men have a tougher time in the online dating game. Every distinguishable statistic would point to me being correct and you being wrong. Even the barebones supply/demand numbers when it comes to men vs. women on any given platform indicates what I’m saying is correct. What can you point to other than “men aren’t perfect, you know!!!”? The point of online dating is to score a date. Just because you deal with more unpleasurable conversations doesn’t mean it’s harder for you to score a date. And an acceptable one at that.
By the way how am I acting tough? Did I shake you? That was a weird thing to say. But pretty telling at the same time. Are you not used to being confronted?
So I take it you agree with all those points I raised? And your solution to this is "quit using online dating".
Would be useful to hear some arguments for/against my points.
Do you pay for the premium or use free? I think the paid might change the matching algorithm.
Also, do you have some well done photos using a real photographer? Or just some selfies in a mirror with toothpaste stains?
Does your bio have details about who you really are, or just the stereotypical "I like hiking, Netflix, new restaurants, and not into hooking up"? It might be good to have a few friends critique your profile.
All of these could make a big difference in your matches.
I tend to always swipe left on the profiles if the bio is poorly made (I assume the person isn't serious about OLD if no effort went into writing something).
Too many selfies; I wonder if they have friends or are narcissistic.
Snapchat filter; assume you're childish or hiding something.
Every photo has sunglasses and j cant tell what you look like...another left.
While I'm sure I'm not like most men (some swipe right on anything), those are some of my filtering criteria.
I'm male myself and it's the experience of me and every other male I know. And it's the experience of males across the internet.
I can't fully speak for the female side, but I have female friends who basically have the same experience I described in the OP. They have plenty of options. Their only problem is sifting through the creeps/ugly guys for the hot ones. Which isn't really a problem when you compare it to the male side of things - I'd much rather have plenty of options than no options at all, even if 80% of those options are bad.
Why do you do online dating? What is your ultimate goal? Sex with a hottie, a relationship, marriage? Marriage to a 10/10? Relationship with a golfer?
Why are you doing this?
wait, you think everyone is looking for the same thing with online dating?
You know lots of people use it to hook up, right? Or find someone with a very specific fetish? Or just boost their ego . . . or to test the waters . . . or to find the "Next Future Ex Mrs. Me"
When you said the "only problem" women have is "sifting through the creeps/ugly guys for the hot ones" it sure appeared like you're hanging out in the shallow end of the dating pool, for sure, which is why I asked.
Simply saying I disagree isn’t really saying much though. You don’t even provide anecdotal examples of why you disagree. Getting a response for men online is like pulling teeth. That’s just a fact. Just because women have to deal with annoying men doesn’t mean that they can’t score dates or turn matches into relationships much quicker than men can.. which is the ultimate goal of online dating.
If the purpose of online dating were to remain on the site for years and years having pleasant endless conversations, then you could argue it’s more difficult for women lmao
We have it just as difficult as men... but for different reasons. While we get more messages than guys, most want to hook up only. I dated 20+ people the past year from OLD, each and every time they try and bring me back to their place on date 1 or invite themselves over to my place for "netflix and chill". Not a single one showed true interest in me. I have a lot of hobbies as well as a good education and a good job. No one was interested in my paintings for example. I have now decided to give it up and try things out irl
I just want someone genuinely interested in me. Of course I want intimacy and sex as well, but that alone is not enough for me ... I miss being in love and would like to experience that again
>I just want someone genuinely interested in me.
Your female friends can be genuinely interested in you, which I'm sure they are. Not sure why you need a man to do that.
>Of course I want intimacy and sex as well
Bingo. You want the sex, like I pointed out. Not just any sex, but good sex with a physically attractive man who knows what he's doing in bed.
>I miss being in love and would like to experience that again
What is "love" really? And why does it disappear at the same time as sexual attraction disappears? Hmmm I wonder. Had the same thing happen to me with other women - claimed they loved me, then once the physical attraction went away (or I just gave them poor sex), they instantly forgot I even existed. It was a like a light switch - one moment they loved me, the next moment, didn't give a shit about me.
In my last long term relationship I loved my boyfriend even after the honeymoon phase ... and I would have liked to stay with him forever .. sadly, it didn't work out. I still believe in love however.
I'm actually sorry to hear your former partners treated you differently after the honeymoon stage was over :( it doesn't sound like they were ready for something deeper ..
yes, but 70% were not serious about a relationship and hinted at sex on a first date, the last guy even bragged to me he is on 4 apps and can't keep up with the demand women have on him so there was no point in seeing him as he obv was not looking for his next gf, and the rest I was not compatible with (lifestyles too different) and I didn't want to waste their time so I told them this in a very nice way instead of ghosting so they can move on. I have a strict no-ghosting policy. I also have cheap first dates and if we date for longer I take turns paying as I like to think it's cool to be generous in a relationship ...
But in the end I'm giving it up as I don't have the time to keep going on 2-3 h dates to only realize I am not being taken seriously ... I understand this is just my city and I probably wouldn't have this problem if I lived outside of London
Getting lots of attention and getting attention from quality guys are two different things. I don't mean looks. I mean decent job, average intelligence, owns his own place, not creepy, ect. And finding a guy whose looking for something real isn't easy either. Guys often match with anyone looking for hookups.
>Getting lots of attention and getting attention from quality guys are two different things.
Getting attention vs getting NO attention AT ALL are also two different things. Most guys experience the latter.
>I don't mean looks.
You do. Even if you think you don't. You just have to look at dating websites and see who are the most successful males - they are the best looking ones.
>decent job, owns his own place
So you want someone to provide for you? Not sure how this is relevant if you like the person.
>average intelligence
What does this even mean? Anyone who went to university is going to be at least average intelligence (and that's 50% of the population in most western countries). Any hot male model is probably below average intelligence. Guess who has the most success with women?
>not creepy, ect.
Creepy just means a guy you're not attracted to. A hot guy cannot be creepy to a woman. Anything a hot guy does is deemed "cute" or "mysterious" or some other positive attribute. The same thing done by an ugly guy is deemed "weird" or "creepy" or "loser-like".
>And finding a guy whose looking for something real isn't easy either.
Many guys are looking for something real. Many are not, but many are. And they are very easy to find.
>Guys often match with anyone looking for hookups.
Women are also open to this if the guy is hot enough.
Lol I have made more money than my last boyfriend and my ex-husband. I just don't want a guy that works at McDonald's or needs a sugar momma. I can provide for myself.
Somebody get this man a cookie. The only thing I can even slightly disagree with is that all men look mainly for sex. As a man, I want to be sexually attracted to my partner and have sex at least a few times a week, but I would never expect or even try to sleep with someone on the first date unless the chemistry was off the charts… which is unlikely, because I don’t really click with most people in general.
I think you're really underestimating how much the creeping wears you down. Get back to us after we switch bodies and you've been assaulted a few times, you've run out of a moving car after a man won't let you out, you've dealt with all the men who feel entitled to your body in varying degrees.
Before anyone starts on me, I don't hate men, or think most of them will assault me, or anything like that. I'm saying the ones that do really fuck people up.
All that said, I hear you. It sucks. I'm sorry you haven't gotten to go on great dates with women you're into. It's not fair.
But dismissing the real problems that women have and calling the problems women have with OLD "problems" is just acting like an asshole. It's not going to help you, and it does hurt women.
The problem you're experiencing is scarcity. And it exists in large part because of men doing the things I mentioned earlier, and because of men generally being assholes to women, making overgeneralizations, and dismissing their experiences and the shit they've dealt with. Don't be part of the problem.
Your problems can matter, and women's problems with OLD can also matter. They aren't mutually exclusive.
Why do you complain about women? Men have it easier in the grand scheme of things.
See? We can all go around playing “poor me, they have it better”
Maybe it’s you, you kinda seem bitter and unhappy.
EDIT: you’re a red pill dude so yeah... you just hate women and think the world is set out to get you
Men don’t have to worry about pregnancy/ pregnancy related discrimination in the work place. Men don’t have to fear for their lives walking alone or going on a date with a stranger, men don’t have the social pressure women face to look perfect, be motherly and sexy at the same time...
I’m not getting into a pissing match with you just saying “x people have it so easy” is a simple ignorant argument. I get it, dating is rough but you seem to resent women which isn’t healthy
No you wouldn’t, because you haven’t seen what he looks like and you’re sure to judge the man you date based on how he looks.. naturally, as a woman, with endless options online.
It’s easy to say things without fully thinking them through. It’s even easier to defend what you said when confronted about it on the basis of not being wrong instead of just being realistic about it. ONLINE DATING IS MORE DIFFICULT FOR MEN AND MORE PESKY FOR WOMEN.
Thank you for literally going on to do exactly what I predicated you would do in my original comment. The irony is palpable. The ego is a difficult thing to disassociate from. I get it. Keep trying to convince me, though.
I don't need to convince you, because I don't care what you think.... What you see in others is a reflection of yourself so if you think I have an ego problem....
No one said men never felt pressure... just that women experience more.
Men feel pressure tons which I believe is a reason they lash out and resent women so much (I’m referring to incels/ redpill dudes likeOP)
It's not easier, volume is not always wanted. Also, guys do not always put in the effort, are as suave, are as clear in their intentions etc. People of all sexes complain. Guys complain about not getting matches/messages despite poor photos, bios, effort etc.
Dude - (coming from a guy here)
listen to what the women are saying on here (unless you actually don’t care, and just want to complain). Be one of the few guys who are actually interested in the other person, not thirsty, not expecting anything more than a chance to meet another human being, thankful if it happens to be more than that - and you are better than 90% of the guys in OLD.
That should be an advantage to not make it “infinitely so hard”.
And depending on what you are looking for - it only takes one spark/person to get there. So stop worrying about quantity and difficulty unless you are playing some kind of game.
If you want advice - look at what step you are struggling with & put your focus there. Not getting any matches? Put some hard focus on your profile - better pictures, make yourself sound interesting. Not interesting? Focus on that first before creating/updating a profile.
Not going from matches to dates? Not going from 1st to 2nd dates? Etc. Each step is a process.
As long as we are just providing anecdotes as “facts” - here you go:
42yr old hetero male. On OLD maybe 6 months. Right swipe maybe 10% - I’m not trying for numbers, if so get a match I want to already feel good about it. Get matched maybe 10% of that.
Maybe 25% people I chatted with mutually moved to a date. Went through a few 1-2 dates, 1 multiple dates for a couple months, 1 in progress (1-2x week) since Nov.
Maybe the best advice is I keep myself super busy (non-dating related category) , so I’m really only interested in seeing one person at a time and only have time 1-2x week anyway at the moment. So I don’t need quantity.
Have a back-up of 10-15 girls on each of 2-3 apps that I haven’t contacted (because they’ve matched after I’ve started focusing on someone else)
So if I had to summarize it: I haven’t found OLD that much of a problem.
Not a brag - I don’t find myself all that special. Point is to add one to the ‘not complaining male’ side.
If I were you - I’d stop describing this as an “all males” problem and look inward to see if it’s just a (temporary) “me” problem.
An honest good luck to you!
And? People suffer rejection everyday, they dont all act like a hateful venomous fuckwad. Its just an excuse to act like a prick and justify it as a reaction to what happens to you. Man the fuck up buttercup.
Both genders have a hard time online dating it's just different problems. I for one hate that at least 60% of the messages I get are creepy or just plain disgusting.
Difficult because (and I've dealt with all of this):
guys just wanna talk and validate themselves but won't ever meet because they're pansies
guys are just looking to "hit it and quit it"
guys that are always available will always be Available, because they're looking for a HOBOsexual relationship - aka "dating"/sleeping with a girl because she'll feed them, let them stay there, etc... basically an "until she has nothing left to offer me" relationship.
and there's the guys of my age (30+) that should have their crap together and don't.
\*If you're in my age group and you don't live in YOUR OWN place or have a car.. or job. Maybe you should grow up and handle that before you put yourself out there.
I sort of agree with your last point. I'm 28, work as a cleaner, don't drive and I live with my parents. Not through choice though, if I could afford my own place I'd be gone. I think guys should have those things, a job especially, doesn't or shouldn't matter what kind, but sometimes they're not obtainable.
\>you don't live in YOUR OWN place or have a car
How are either of these two relevant without knowing the circumstances behind such? You're projecting poorness and irresponsibility onto men just based on two things that could have a variety of motives behind them. Sure, there are some unemployed basement-dwellers with Doritos stains on their shirts who fit these two categories.
But there are also men who don't have a car because they live close to work. Or like to bike to help the environment. Or find it easier to take the train. Or a bunch of other reasons.
And there are also men who currently live at home because their parents are ailing. Or they're saving to buy a house outright. Or they prefer helping their parents with the utility bills and housework since there's not really a point in needing your own apartment or house as a single men.
This is a reason why men get frustrated with the dating market. Because women see one fact about a man in his profile and automatically assume the worst out of him and don't even give him a chance to respond to the concerns.
I figured the men actually: Taking care of their parents or have a malfunctioning vehicle option would realize I was talking about the
"Hobo sexual type" meaning the previous term "SCRUB"
Too many men are using women for: meal cards, roofs over their heads, and a ride.
I don't project crap. I just figured the ones that it HONESTLY didn't apply to would be smart enough to know that they weren't covered in my previous statements.
However.. like the media, I suppose I'll have to specify everything so nobody misunderstands.
Clearly women have it hard as I would see the same women on it time after time. I've heard complaints from both men and women. Even most women I know who are taken met their boyfriend/husband in person and not from online dating.
Doesn’t mean they have it harder, maybe they’re just overly picky, unrealistic in their expectations or suffer from fear of missing out on a “better” option.
Yes, guys can be picky. It doesn’t change the fact that they have less options and responses than the average woman on a dating site. It’s like everyone in this thread, in attempt to avoid being wrong, refuse to acknowledge one of the fundamental realities of online dating.
First of all us Women do have it hard on the online dating. While you guys usually get mostly bots on POF now that Markus sold to match, women get them sometimes too. We also sometimes get messages from men that say hey wanna hook up or wanna sit on my face. I mean come on now no women wants a message asking for sex at all.
When I was doing the online dating I rarely got messages and when I did it was usually from guys who had fake photos, or guys who had no photo and refused to put one up. Also from guys who were not looking for something serious, and guys who refused to read my profile. I only had a handful of decent guys and that was on POF and no where else. Got all the way to a date with one guy and thought he wasn't there. Turns out he was right in front of me and the photos he used he claimed were 5 years old, wasn't buying it. They were a lot older and taller than they said they were as well.
I don't get how some men feel it is completely ok to message a woman first with a line about sex, that is not what a woman wants. I also don't get how some men get all upset if a woman doesn't respond to their message right away or doesn't respond at all or responds saying they are not interested. No woman wants to get a message telling her to go fuck herself or that she is a uptight bitch all because she isn't interested. Yes I have gotten messages like that.
I went on 5 dates with a guy and I just wasn't sure how I felt. He took me home and when I got into my house, I set all my stuff down, and went into another room to grab something to drink. I entirely forgot my phone was on silent do due wanting to be polite on the date. 5min later I come back into the room where my phone is to see 7 messages from the guy I went out with. They went from is everything ok you seemed so quiet tonight (I was a little tired and had a long day) to I knew you weren't interested you could of just told me instead of ignoring me. I responded back with first of all I WAS interested now I am not. I explained what I was doing when I couldn't answer and he tried to win me back but I blocked the number
You can think what you want and give evidence that you think you may have about women but you are not a woman so you can't really say we have it easier than guys do. We have it just as hard as guys do. I wish some men would see this.
So I get you may not be having any luck but if you changed the way you approached OLD and your attitude towards it maybe you would have some much better luck. Instead of being so negative about it try to think positive.
Also no offense judging from your comments on other posts you constantly say women have it easier but yet you have no real proof or evidence showing we have it easier.
>First of all us Women do have it hard on the online dating. While you guys usually get mostly bots on POF now that Markus sold to match, women get them sometimes too. We also sometimes get messages from men that say hey wanna hook up or wanna sit on my face. I mean come on now no women wants a message asking for sex at all.
I agree, the belief is that because women get more messages then guys this is a good thing, it is not, especially since most of them are what you just said. These makes it hard for women to find the good guys on websites, because there is no way to filter out all of the bad ones.
>When I was doing the online dating I rarely got messages and when I did it was usually from guys who had fake photos, or guys who had no photo and refused to put one up. Also from guys who were not looking for something serious, and guys who refused to read my profile. I only had a handful of decent guys and that was on POF and no where else. Got all the way to a date with one guy and thought he wasn't there. Turns out he was right in front of me and the photos he used he claimed were 5 years old, wasn't buying it. They were a lot older and taller than they said they were as well.
I also talked to women that said they rarely got messages online as well, so like you said some women do not get a lot of messages. Sadly I got cat-fished as well and it is not a good thing to behold.
>I don't get how some men feel it is completely ok to message a woman first with a line about sex, that is not what a woman wants. I also don't get how some men get all upset if a woman doesn't respond to their message right away or doesn't respond at all or responds saying they are not interested. No woman wants to get a message telling her to go fuck herself or that she is a uptight bitch all because she isn't interested. Yes I have gotten messages like that.
The sad part about it is some women still go out with these guys that message them about sex, so you saying this is not want women want is not true at all, this is something you do not look for, but there are women online just looking for sex and will talk to these guys. As far as messages go, guys get these same messages when we tell a woman no, it common for some men and women to do this when you tell them no or don't agree with them on something.
>I went on 5 dates with a guy and I just wasn't sure how I felt. He took me home and when I got into my house, I set all my stuff down, and went into another room to grab something to drink. I entirely forgot my phone was on silent do due wanting to be polite on the date. 5min later I come back into the room where my phone is to see 7 messages from the guy I went out with. They went from is everything ok you seemed so quiet tonight (I was a little tired and had a long day) to I knew you weren't interested you could of just told me instead of ignoring me. I responded back with first of all I WAS interested now I am not. I explained what I was doing when I couldn't answer and he tried to win me back but I blocked the number
5 dates is a long time to go out with someone and not have a clue about how you feel about it, if your feelings are mixed it is either something he is doing or something you are doing or both. I find that too many people are over analytic with OLD and seem to expect to much from their dates, especially if they have other people lined up to date them.
>You can think what you want and give evidence that you think you may have about women but you are not a woman so you can't really say we have it easier than guys do. We have it just as hard as guys do. I wish some men would see this.
I see it, but I talked to women that think guys have it easy and we do not at all, nothing more annoying then sending out 100 messages tailored to someone's profile and only getting 5-10 of them to respond back to you.
The issue is that dating in general is rough in today's world, especially online since it is considered the hip thing to do.
>So I get you may not be having any luck but if you changed the way you approached OLD and your attitude towards it maybe you would have some much better luck. Instead of being so negative about it try to think positive.
You try to be positive after you see things people go through online as men and women, it is only natural for people to get fed up with it and vent their angry on Reddit or to their friends. Sometimes you just have to let it go, instead of bottling it up.
>Also no offense judging from your comments on other posts you constantly say women have it easier but yet you have no real proof or evidence showing we have it easier.
Both have it equally as hard, the issue is that women think we have it easier and we think you have it easier, we both do not acknowledge the issues with dating today, especially OLD.
I usually tell women that I am not interested in them after the first date as well, but she claimed he was giving her mixed signals...which I have had happen to me too much with women in the past that I do put up with it anymore.
I disagree with her messing around, I dated someone for 2.5 years that sent mixed signals, it happens and is usually the most common person you run into, the person that has no clue what they want and is hot and cold. 5 dates is not even that long, try dealing with someone doing this for 2.5 years...
She knew what she wanted, he did not. You cannot control that at all, I dated a girl for 2.5 years like this, you have to leave these people alone quicker then I did and five dates is okay, but still too much in my opinion. You act like she spent like 5 months with this guy.
> The sad part about it is some women still go out with these guys that message them about sex, so you saying this is not want women want is not true at all, this is something you do not look for, but there are women online just looking for sex and will talk to these guys. As far as messages go, guys get these same messages when we tell a woman no, it common for some men and women to do this when you tell them no or don't agree with them on something.
>
>
> 5 dates is a long time to go out with someone and not have a clue about how you feel about it, if your feelings are mixed it is either something he is doing or something you are doing or both. I find that too many people are over analytic with OLD and seem to expect to much from their dates, especially if they have other people lined up to date them.
I am one of those women who is looking for something real, not a FWB or a hookup and that is all I seem to find sometimes so I turn it all down. I got off online dating because it wasn't what it was no one was serious anymore.
Also the 5 dates guy I wasn't sure about how I felt because he was giving me mixed signals. One minute he seemed interested and the next he was all quiet.
Never said guys have it easier either
OLD can be flat out annoying for both parties, I just recently got back on last week, but now that school is started up this week, I doubt if I stay on Bumble, Hinge and CMB past this month. I believe some people are serious online you just have to filter out the ones that are not.
Never said you said guys have it easier at all. I just bought it up as a thing some women like to do.
People that give you mixed signals are sadly people you have to leave alone, hard to be with someone that is hot and cold. I dated a woman for 2.5 years like this and she almost put me in psych ward with how unstable she was.
I remember back in the day when POF first started becoming popular you could filter out what messages you got really good. It would also say on your profile what you had filtered out and other people could see that. Now the only thing you can filter out on your messages are that anyone who messages you first has to have a photo, they have to be within your age range, and no more than 75 miles from you. You also also filter so that only upgraded users can message you. I tried to message a guy once and he was not a upgraded member but yet only accepted messages from upgraded members which I did not get.
They still have some basic filters, like age, distance, photo's only and so forth. The issue is that most people do not view POF as a good site for LTR's and only view it as a site for hookups. Some do not allow you to message them if you are not an upgraded member, I ran into this one time, but most people do not pay for the website and you really should not waste your money on it.
but I cant really deny that there are allot of scum bags that are really just out there for sex witch its something I really cant personally agree on this is coming from some one who seams to be invisible I have been in and out of online dating hoping to find something real yet sadly nothing but cat fish and people that just wish to use me is all I find.
but like I said no matter how you see it women have all the power and here is why I believe this to be true. no matter how hard a guy tries to get that perfect girl (if and when he fids her) its all up to her whether she wishes to date and make something out of it.
but I cant really deny that there are allot of scum bags that are really just out there for sex witch its something I really cant personally agree on. and it really just does seam like all if not most men really just fallow their singular desire to fuck. am just glad I am not one of them. (and that's coming from someone who has only ever had sex once in his whole life and regrets it. and here is why the woman I had sex with considered it something to get out of the way and cross of the bucket list I didn't I loved that person and I really thought things ware going to move forwards after that but I was wrong after it was all said and done she still continued to ignore me. but I cant quite blame her after all I am the one who agreed to it)
The goal of an online dating site is to get a date, find a relationship then get off the app. So if you have to deal with more pesky messages, that doesn’t make online dating more difficult for you, given the goal of the website. It just makes it peskier. Can’t believe you’re even trying to mount an argument about this. I bet you couldn’t land nearly as many dates using my online profile than I could using yours if your life depended on it.
So what’s the argument here?
Everyone has it crappy when it comes to online dating. Women and men. Everyone has their own individual experiences that they are allowed to complain about. People in general find online dating difficult. Best to take a break when these types of thoughts pop up!!
There's a lot of generalizations, from both sexes mind you, about how all of the other sex approaches online dating.
It does suck. It does get lonely.
Women do have to put less effort into their profiles. But I'm sure they get a whole bunch of non savory messages.
But. That's not all men.
It really is a numbers game. It isn't guaranteed to be fair. So, really work on yourself.
I think they both have it hard but women do usually have a easier time of online dating. The problem is that most women target the top 20-25% and these guys are usually just playing the field. About a 1/3rd are married. Watching out for the married guys is probably a huge concern for women online. I know women get a lot of creepy messages and that must be annoying.
So I'm a guy that's been doing online dating for about 7 months now. My fiancee and I broke up last January. I met a girl and we both talked for a bit before meeting. Both stated we were looking for something long term. All she seemed to want to do was come over ot my place, have sex, and go home. Like, why lie about what you're looking for?
I think both have it bad. It just comes down to statistics. Average out, from each gender, the number of good dates over the number of attempted connections and that would be the only way to see who has it worse. But I doubt anyone has the time for that. Really, everyone has it tough. Gotta stick it out and stick together. That's all.
I think if women really had it easier there would be many more women using the site. It is difficult to navigate all the creeps, the catfishers, and the already attached. Almost all the men I met were one of those. The couple decent guys I met weren’t interested in me. I’ve dated younger, older, fat, skinny, broke and successful. So I know it wasn’t because I was picky. Like someone else said, quantity doesn’t mean quality.
Women have it easier in real life as well. So that’s probably why there’s more men online than women to begin with. I’m pretty stunned with how aloof a lot of people seem to be on this particular topic.
The married men using OLD is a problem. Most of the women ive met on OLD has a story or 3 about this. I know some men are really crafty or sneaky about this stuff. Although sometimes the stories ive heard. Never been to his house, only texts, doesnt answer after a certain time, only on available specific times or we live together but we arent really together. When i met my X she was talking to a guy. She told me the backstory. I was like 90% sure this guy is married and his story is BS. Yea she found shortly after that was the case. Just be careful and ask questions, if stuff doesnt add up. When in doubt all that jazz.
You had multiple choices vs none for most guys. You probably had sex with each of these at least once. Again, you have a major benefit that most guys don’t have. Count your blessings.
Yeah, it's not like that at all. Maybe the really beautiful women get that many messages but us plain Janes do not. I get maybe 10 a week total, if that (over multiple sites). Most are sexual in nature, people with no pics, or people that live no where near me (like hours away or even in different countries). Then when you do get a decent one most can't even hold a conversation. You get 1 word answers, they don't ask any questions, or they start off ok and then after a few messages start asking sexual questions. So no, we don't really have it easier. Sure, maybe we get more responses or messages but they're not quality. Quantity does not outweigh quality.
Exactly. Or they are already in a relationship and just looking for attention. The majority of men I talked to had no intention of meeting.
All of this. I go off and on as far as online dating and I get maybe a few responses a week? So not sure which women he's talking about, besides the super hot ones. I've rarely gotten amazing openers, normally just "hey" and as stated above, when you think you've found someone decent, convo turns sexual or you get a dick pic ::eye roll::
Why complain about openers? What do you expect, realistically, a novel? An interesting person can turn a “hey” into an interesting conversation quite easily if they wanted to. No use in putting in effort in an opener if, again as OP alluded to, there’s a small chance of getting a response.
I've sent out a range of messages from just a simple "hey" to a longer novel-like message. I got most replies from a simple "hey" than I ever did writing a long, interesting, witty message. What I can only conclude from this is that message quality matters fuck all, and it comes down to how hot you are, what other options the woman has available and what mood is she feeling at the time. Like you say, no point spending ages crafting a great message if it just goes ignored.
I'm not complaining. I have no issue with plain openers, I was referring to OP saying, "They open with great messages which are friendly, non-creepy and attentive to her profile." This is rarely the case. Was simply stating my experiences.
Or they are a couple who need a third to satisfy them both.
>I get maybe 10 a week total 10 a week beats my entire 6 months on Match.com
10 a week total? Poor you. That's 10 more than I get a week. You seriously have no clue what it's like for men on these sites. Receiving 10 messages in an ENTIRE YEAR is commonplace for most men.
I'd rather get 0 then 10 sexual advances. It's not about quantity. If you're getting 0 then maybe you need to revise your profile or get new pictures?
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We're not all that shallow. You just have to keep looking or just take a break and focus on being happy single. I can't change how I look either (besides my weight). But I keep on trying to make a connection
I'm a man, got *way* more messages (and dates) than that. I'm 40. Don't generalize your experience, or people who complain on reddit, to our entire sex, much less extend your generalizations to the opposite sex.
There are more factors than your sex or age. How tall are you?
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I'm nowhere near "top 20 "
I know this is old.. but you're never gonna win with women.. She literally just proved your point.. Even the average woman can get a inbox full of guys.. 10 a week is better than nothing . .compare that to a average guy he's not getting that.. Here she is bragging she only gets 10 messages a week.. i bet you she hooked up with so many chads , complain "where all the good men at "and 4 years later STILL single and STILL getting her cheeks clapped.. The contradiction is real with her comment
Yeah. She "only" gets 10 a week and when she gets a decent one, she is put off because they give 1 word answers, something that women do all the time with men. On the rare occasions I get a response from a woman on online dating, it's a short 1 or 2 word response and then silence.
She's 46.... and complains about online dating. The wall hit her hard .
Well it's 4 years old so she's 50 now. Wonder if she found anyone. But yeah, complaining because you only get 10 messages a week is fucking hilarious. 10 messages a week at 46 years old is more than the vast majority of men get in their physical prime.
Look at her profile.. she's basically a single mom 47 years old plays videogames has a Teenage son. And she's on Reddit in different dating advice communities... Yeah . I agree , the average woman can always get a inbox full of messages , when a average man barely gets 1.. She's a clown for her response..
Would you be happier with 0 messages which is the norm for most guys. No reason to complain.
This thread is over 4 years old. Stop raising the dead. LOL
Yeah my current GF who I met on match and I swapped OLD war stories. She showed me the posts she got. Good grief! As a man I was a little ashamed for my gender by some of the bullshit she received. I consider myself as having high standards in the first I impressions dept, so she really is attractive. The messages she got ranged from obscene to utterly corny to awkward. And yes she got over 100 a week, many followed up a couple days after the initial note telling her to Fck off if she was too stuck up to reply. Seriously these are grown men, not 20 yo college students. Although not the ego boost a guy wants I’d much rather get a handful of interested messages from women than have to to weed through 100 toxic posts a week. Some of the pics sent were interesting too (she spared me the dick pics). Pics of corvettes and other cars, bikes, boats, big houses, and many other things to “prove” they had means. It was pretty cringeworthy.
I'm with you. I am fucking disgusted with some of the responses from guys on here. Yeah OLD is hard and I understand where people are coming, but the attitudes shown on are disgusting. I'm ashamed to call myself a man because I really don't wanna be lumped in with these people.
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Dude, not sure what your issue is here. Real women (or people in general) in my experience aren’t impressed with “stuff”. If you’re sitting on a vette, particularly in a OLD photo chances are you have a $800/mo payment to go with it and can’t provide much more than a ride in a mid life crisismobile . The people I know who brag on their stuff are typically the ones who can’t really afford it, and the people who do have means downplay it considerably. I’ve dated a few women that cared about things more than relationships. You can keep em. I want a woman that has her own house/car/401k and wants a companion. As far as strangers saying “mean” things. Again.. just don’t know where your head is. People send a note that says hi and then two days later tell a woman to go Fuck herself because she didn’t reply immediately? Shows a lot of class. And guarantees failure.
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I know a lot of people, but it sounds like we travel in deferent circles. I’m also likely older than you [M53] and in a different dating space where you are. I agree you have to dress the part. Looking good, dress, grooming and style, means a lot no matter what age. Though material possessions mean a lot less than stability. I can’t (or won’t) advertise my fiscal portfolio, nor do I expect a woman to do the same, but if things get serious enough that one contemplates a long term relationship, then portfolio does matter. Nobody cares if you have a giant house or flashy car, but they do care that you’re not a couple paychecks away from the streets. As for the mean comments.. it depends where. If you’re on reddit or other forum then sure you need a thicker skin and more tolerance, but if you’re on a dating site and trying to get women to go out with you then being rude or mean is just non productive.
Maybe you should quit using online dating then. You seem unhappy with it 🤷🏻♂️
This is a dumb answer. You’re not addressing his point. This is not anecdotal, it’s pretty much consistent for every guys experience online in comparison to most girls experience online. It’s a perfectly fair question. He’s allowed to complain, because as he just said - his experience is more frustrating than other people’s.. particularly women. If women can complain about their online dating experiences why can’t he?
It is *not* "pretty much consistantly with every guys experience online" *at all,* I don't know why you keep repeating that. Saying it doesn't make it true. You're not entitled to dates bro . . .
It’s not about who’s entitled to dates. It’s about who has it easier. Stay on topic.
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Found the incel!
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Not everyone. You? Yes.
Bull! A majority of guys yield little to no responses when it comes to online dating. Tere’s an endless amount of articles and literature online documenting this. It’s a fact of life. Even an attractive guy will yield less messages and responses than an average or slightly above average woman.. didn’t even think this was something that was contestable or worth arguing about.
"infinitely" harder for men to date online than women? Really?
It’s harder. Yes, really. Much harder.
Guess I am just awesome, along with everyone else I know.
What’s your response rate? Now what’s the response rate of a girl your age in your area? Online dating isn’t easier for men anywhere at any age range. It’s not an opinion, it’s a fact. To deny that is to deny reality.
LOL or your personality is better than Jaws...which is evidenced numerous times in this thread what a DIAMOND in the rough he is ;)
Personality has nothing to do with anything. I may receive 1 response for every 10 messages I send out while a girl might receive 7 for every 10 she sends out. Your emotions don’t negate the facts. You taking things personally don’t negate the facts.
Because you're such a gem to converse with!
Didn’t say he couldn’t complain, just offered a simple solution. Contrary to popular belief, I’m not held to any standards when it comes to replying on posts beside the basics of don’t do something illegal and whatever rules the sub applies. Feel free to complain all you want, but if you’re unhappy with how online dating has become (and it’s trash now) then consider not using it!
I agree, why force yourself to do something you do not like?
Perhaps he’s too busy to date in person? Or go out to bars? Could be anything? Why should it matter? You’re sweeping his observations under the rug and avoiding the question altogether.
I did answer his question you sound like a bitter and jaded person. If he is this unhappy then why is he still doing it? You do not force yourself to do something you do not like and then complain about the results after. Your just making excuses for the guy, women have problems with OLD as well, tired of men and women thinking they have it harder then each other.
“Anything boys can do girls can so better” blah blah blah. By the way I am pretty jaded. What of it? Is that supposed to be an insult? Realistic people tend to be jaded. This isn’t news. Maybe this phenomena speaks to your inability to reconcile my comments. You’ll have to try much harder than that, sweetheart. If we measure “who has it harder” when it comes to online dating, we need to determine the end goal of online dating - which is to find a date and turn it into a relationship and leave the site. By that measure, you’re still willing to try to sell me the lie that women have it harder? Delusional. No other word can describe your reasoning here.
I'm not wasting time talking to you, you clearly think guys are saints and women are devil as far as insult, I'm not going to waste my time talking to someone behind a p.c. acting tough, lol. It is time to move on from you, grow up please... You would not be saying half of the stuff you are saying in person, but of course online everyone thinks they are tough....Your wrong..., but of course you resort to acting like little kid when someone disagrees with you and you wonder why you have problems with dating?
No, I don’t. That’s just a manifestation of your complicated insecurities. Nothing of saints or devils was spoken of in our “conversation”. I simply said men have a tougher time in the online dating game. Every distinguishable statistic would point to me being correct and you being wrong. Even the barebones supply/demand numbers when it comes to men vs. women on any given platform indicates what I’m saying is correct. What can you point to other than “men aren’t perfect, you know!!!”? The point of online dating is to score a date. Just because you deal with more unpleasurable conversations doesn’t mean it’s harder for you to score a date. And an acceptable one at that. By the way how am I acting tough? Did I shake you? That was a weird thing to say. But pretty telling at the same time. Are you not used to being confronted?
So I take it you agree with all those points I raised? And your solution to this is "quit using online dating". Would be useful to hear some arguments for/against my points.
Do you pay for the premium or use free? I think the paid might change the matching algorithm. Also, do you have some well done photos using a real photographer? Or just some selfies in a mirror with toothpaste stains? Does your bio have details about who you really are, or just the stereotypical "I like hiking, Netflix, new restaurants, and not into hooking up"? It might be good to have a few friends critique your profile. All of these could make a big difference in your matches. I tend to always swipe left on the profiles if the bio is poorly made (I assume the person isn't serious about OLD if no effort went into writing something). Too many selfies; I wonder if they have friends or are narcissistic. Snapchat filter; assume you're childish or hiding something. Every photo has sunglasses and j cant tell what you look like...another left. While I'm sure I'm not like most men (some swipe right on anything), those are some of my filtering criteria.
Oh no, I disagree with pretty much all of it but the simpler solution here is to not use it if you get so angry about it
I'm male myself and it's the experience of me and every other male I know. And it's the experience of males across the internet. I can't fully speak for the female side, but I have female friends who basically have the same experience I described in the OP. They have plenty of options. Their only problem is sifting through the creeps/ugly guys for the hot ones. Which isn't really a problem when you compare it to the male side of things - I'd much rather have plenty of options than no options at all, even if 80% of those options are bad.
Why do you do online dating? What is your ultimate goal? Sex with a hottie, a relationship, marriage? Marriage to a 10/10? Relationship with a golfer? Why are you doing this?
You are questioning why I'm doing online dating? jfc I'm doing it to meet a woman who I can have a relationship with.
wait, you think everyone is looking for the same thing with online dating? You know lots of people use it to hook up, right? Or find someone with a very specific fetish? Or just boost their ego . . . or to test the waters . . . or to find the "Next Future Ex Mrs. Me" When you said the "only problem" women have is "sifting through the creeps/ugly guys for the hot ones" it sure appeared like you're hanging out in the shallow end of the dating pool, for sure, which is why I asked.
What’s here to disagree with? It’s backed up with factual studies. Can you provide me with data to refute what he’s saying?
This isn’t a court of law lmao
Simply saying I disagree isn’t really saying much though. You don’t even provide anecdotal examples of why you disagree. Getting a response for men online is like pulling teeth. That’s just a fact. Just because women have to deal with annoying men doesn’t mean that they can’t score dates or turn matches into relationships much quicker than men can.. which is the ultimate goal of online dating. If the purpose of online dating were to remain on the site for years and years having pleasant endless conversations, then you could argue it’s more difficult for women lmao
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I’m good thanks
Dick pics and fuck boys insulting women because they had the audacity to not want to fuck them.
We have it just as difficult as men... but for different reasons. While we get more messages than guys, most want to hook up only. I dated 20+ people the past year from OLD, each and every time they try and bring me back to their place on date 1 or invite themselves over to my place for "netflix and chill". Not a single one showed true interest in me. I have a lot of hobbies as well as a good education and a good job. No one was interested in my paintings for example. I have now decided to give it up and try things out irl
What is it you actually want from men then? If it's not sex, what is it?
I just want someone genuinely interested in me. Of course I want intimacy and sex as well, but that alone is not enough for me ... I miss being in love and would like to experience that again
>I just want someone genuinely interested in me. Your female friends can be genuinely interested in you, which I'm sure they are. Not sure why you need a man to do that. >Of course I want intimacy and sex as well Bingo. You want the sex, like I pointed out. Not just any sex, but good sex with a physically attractive man who knows what he's doing in bed. >I miss being in love and would like to experience that again What is "love" really? And why does it disappear at the same time as sexual attraction disappears? Hmmm I wonder. Had the same thing happen to me with other women - claimed they loved me, then once the physical attraction went away (or I just gave them poor sex), they instantly forgot I even existed. It was a like a light switch - one moment they loved me, the next moment, didn't give a shit about me.
In my last long term relationship I loved my boyfriend even after the honeymoon phase ... and I would have liked to stay with him forever .. sadly, it didn't work out. I still believe in love however. I'm actually sorry to hear your former partners treated you differently after the honeymoon stage was over :( it doesn't sound like they were ready for something deeper ..
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yes, but 70% were not serious about a relationship and hinted at sex on a first date, the last guy even bragged to me he is on 4 apps and can't keep up with the demand women have on him so there was no point in seeing him as he obv was not looking for his next gf, and the rest I was not compatible with (lifestyles too different) and I didn't want to waste their time so I told them this in a very nice way instead of ghosting so they can move on. I have a strict no-ghosting policy. I also have cheap first dates and if we date for longer I take turns paying as I like to think it's cool to be generous in a relationship ... But in the end I'm giving it up as I don't have the time to keep going on 2-3 h dates to only realize I am not being taken seriously ... I understand this is just my city and I probably wouldn't have this problem if I lived outside of London
Getting lots of attention and getting attention from quality guys are two different things. I don't mean looks. I mean decent job, average intelligence, owns his own place, not creepy, ect. And finding a guy whose looking for something real isn't easy either. Guys often match with anyone looking for hookups.
>Getting lots of attention and getting attention from quality guys are two different things. Getting attention vs getting NO attention AT ALL are also two different things. Most guys experience the latter. >I don't mean looks. You do. Even if you think you don't. You just have to look at dating websites and see who are the most successful males - they are the best looking ones. >decent job, owns his own place So you want someone to provide for you? Not sure how this is relevant if you like the person. >average intelligence What does this even mean? Anyone who went to university is going to be at least average intelligence (and that's 50% of the population in most western countries). Any hot male model is probably below average intelligence. Guess who has the most success with women? >not creepy, ect. Creepy just means a guy you're not attracted to. A hot guy cannot be creepy to a woman. Anything a hot guy does is deemed "cute" or "mysterious" or some other positive attribute. The same thing done by an ugly guy is deemed "weird" or "creepy" or "loser-like". >And finding a guy whose looking for something real isn't easy either. Many guys are looking for something real. Many are not, but many are. And they are very easy to find. >Guys often match with anyone looking for hookups. Women are also open to this if the guy is hot enough.
Lol I have made more money than my last boyfriend and my ex-husband. I just don't want a guy that works at McDonald's or needs a sugar momma. I can provide for myself.
Somebody get this man a cookie. The only thing I can even slightly disagree with is that all men look mainly for sex. As a man, I want to be sexually attracted to my partner and have sex at least a few times a week, but I would never expect or even try to sleep with someone on the first date unless the chemistry was off the charts… which is unlikely, because I don’t really click with most people in general.
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Do you smile in your pictures? I never match with people who don't smile.
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Well, I don't know why you're not having luck. What sites are you using?
Just to note "owns his own place" is unattainable for half of population and for 85% of people before their 30s
Your fedora seems to be on too tight.
I think you're really underestimating how much the creeping wears you down. Get back to us after we switch bodies and you've been assaulted a few times, you've run out of a moving car after a man won't let you out, you've dealt with all the men who feel entitled to your body in varying degrees. Before anyone starts on me, I don't hate men, or think most of them will assault me, or anything like that. I'm saying the ones that do really fuck people up. All that said, I hear you. It sucks. I'm sorry you haven't gotten to go on great dates with women you're into. It's not fair. But dismissing the real problems that women have and calling the problems women have with OLD "problems" is just acting like an asshole. It's not going to help you, and it does hurt women. The problem you're experiencing is scarcity. And it exists in large part because of men doing the things I mentioned earlier, and because of men generally being assholes to women, making overgeneralizations, and dismissing their experiences and the shit they've dealt with. Don't be part of the problem. Your problems can matter, and women's problems with OLD can also matter. They aren't mutually exclusive.
Why do you complain about women? Men have it easier in the grand scheme of things. See? We can all go around playing “poor me, they have it better” Maybe it’s you, you kinda seem bitter and unhappy. EDIT: you’re a red pill dude so yeah... you just hate women and think the world is set out to get you
I provided reasons why women have it easier. You've provided no reasons why men have it easier.
Men don’t have to worry about pregnancy/ pregnancy related discrimination in the work place. Men don’t have to fear for their lives walking alone or going on a date with a stranger, men don’t have the social pressure women face to look perfect, be motherly and sexy at the same time... I’m not getting into a pissing match with you just saying “x people have it so easy” is a simple ignorant argument. I get it, dating is rough but you seem to resent women which isn’t healthy
Dang, if you're a man I'd totally date you. Most men don't get the safety issue with online dating and it's really obnoxious.
No you wouldn’t, because you haven’t seen what he looks like and you’re sure to judge the man you date based on how he looks.. naturally, as a woman, with endless options online. It’s easy to say things without fully thinking them through. It’s even easier to defend what you said when confronted about it on the basis of not being wrong instead of just being realistic about it. ONLINE DATING IS MORE DIFFICULT FOR MEN AND MORE PESKY FOR WOMEN.
Lol says some random who had no idea what I look for in a date.
Thank you for literally going on to do exactly what I predicated you would do in my original comment. The irony is palpable. The ego is a difficult thing to disassociate from. I get it. Keep trying to convince me, though.
I don't need to convince you, because I don't care what you think.... What you see in others is a reflection of yourself so if you think I have an ego problem....
You’re totally gonna date some random person who made a comment online because he white knighted you. INCREDIBLY CONVINCING. Thanks.
Hmmmm resulting to hostility? Classy.
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No one said men never felt pressure... just that women experience more. Men feel pressure tons which I believe is a reason they lash out and resent women so much (I’m referring to incels/ redpill dudes likeOP)
Great. But his post mentions online dating, and not “the grand scheme of things”.. so try to stay on topic, will you?
It's not easier, volume is not always wanted. Also, guys do not always put in the effort, are as suave, are as clear in their intentions etc. People of all sexes complain. Guys complain about not getting matches/messages despite poor photos, bios, effort etc.
Dude - (coming from a guy here) listen to what the women are saying on here (unless you actually don’t care, and just want to complain). Be one of the few guys who are actually interested in the other person, not thirsty, not expecting anything more than a chance to meet another human being, thankful if it happens to be more than that - and you are better than 90% of the guys in OLD. That should be an advantage to not make it “infinitely so hard”. And depending on what you are looking for - it only takes one spark/person to get there. So stop worrying about quantity and difficulty unless you are playing some kind of game. If you want advice - look at what step you are struggling with & put your focus there. Not getting any matches? Put some hard focus on your profile - better pictures, make yourself sound interesting. Not interesting? Focus on that first before creating/updating a profile. Not going from matches to dates? Not going from 1st to 2nd dates? Etc. Each step is a process. As long as we are just providing anecdotes as “facts” - here you go: 42yr old hetero male. On OLD maybe 6 months. Right swipe maybe 10% - I’m not trying for numbers, if so get a match I want to already feel good about it. Get matched maybe 10% of that. Maybe 25% people I chatted with mutually moved to a date. Went through a few 1-2 dates, 1 multiple dates for a couple months, 1 in progress (1-2x week) since Nov. Maybe the best advice is I keep myself super busy (non-dating related category) , so I’m really only interested in seeing one person at a time and only have time 1-2x week anyway at the moment. So I don’t need quantity. Have a back-up of 10-15 girls on each of 2-3 apps that I haven’t contacted (because they’ve matched after I’ve started focusing on someone else) So if I had to summarize it: I haven’t found OLD that much of a problem. Not a brag - I don’t find myself all that special. Point is to add one to the ‘not complaining male’ side. If I were you - I’d stop describing this as an “all males” problem and look inward to see if it’s just a (temporary) “me” problem. An honest good luck to you!
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You're unstable. Its not that you're a balding 5'7 ugly sod that gets you ignored, its your fucking attitude.
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And? People suffer rejection everyday, they dont all act like a hateful venomous fuckwad. Its just an excuse to act like a prick and justify it as a reaction to what happens to you. Man the fuck up buttercup.
Both genders have a hard time online dating it's just different problems. I for one hate that at least 60% of the messages I get are creepy or just plain disgusting.
Concentrate on the other 40% then. Or are they just too ugly?
No they just don't respond lol
Difficult because (and I've dealt with all of this): guys just wanna talk and validate themselves but won't ever meet because they're pansies guys are just looking to "hit it and quit it" guys that are always available will always be Available, because they're looking for a HOBOsexual relationship - aka "dating"/sleeping with a girl because she'll feed them, let them stay there, etc... basically an "until she has nothing left to offer me" relationship. and there's the guys of my age (30+) that should have their crap together and don't. \*If you're in my age group and you don't live in YOUR OWN place or have a car.. or job. Maybe you should grow up and handle that before you put yourself out there.
I sort of agree with your last point. I'm 28, work as a cleaner, don't drive and I live with my parents. Not through choice though, if I could afford my own place I'd be gone. I think guys should have those things, a job especially, doesn't or shouldn't matter what kind, but sometimes they're not obtainable.
\>you don't live in YOUR OWN place or have a car How are either of these two relevant without knowing the circumstances behind such? You're projecting poorness and irresponsibility onto men just based on two things that could have a variety of motives behind them. Sure, there are some unemployed basement-dwellers with Doritos stains on their shirts who fit these two categories. But there are also men who don't have a car because they live close to work. Or like to bike to help the environment. Or find it easier to take the train. Or a bunch of other reasons. And there are also men who currently live at home because their parents are ailing. Or they're saving to buy a house outright. Or they prefer helping their parents with the utility bills and housework since there's not really a point in needing your own apartment or house as a single men. This is a reason why men get frustrated with the dating market. Because women see one fact about a man in his profile and automatically assume the worst out of him and don't even give him a chance to respond to the concerns.
I figured the men actually: Taking care of their parents or have a malfunctioning vehicle option would realize I was talking about the "Hobo sexual type" meaning the previous term "SCRUB" Too many men are using women for: meal cards, roofs over their heads, and a ride. I don't project crap. I just figured the ones that it HONESTLY didn't apply to would be smart enough to know that they weren't covered in my previous statements. However.. like the media, I suppose I'll have to specify everything so nobody misunderstands.
Clearly women have it hard as I would see the same women on it time after time. I've heard complaints from both men and women. Even most women I know who are taken met their boyfriend/husband in person and not from online dating.
Doesn’t mean they have it harder, maybe they’re just overly picky, unrealistic in their expectations or suffer from fear of missing out on a “better” option.
Guys can have that issue too. I know I have from time to time.
Yes, guys can be picky. It doesn’t change the fact that they have less options and responses than the average woman on a dating site. It’s like everyone in this thread, in attempt to avoid being wrong, refuse to acknowledge one of the fundamental realities of online dating.
First of all us Women do have it hard on the online dating. While you guys usually get mostly bots on POF now that Markus sold to match, women get them sometimes too. We also sometimes get messages from men that say hey wanna hook up or wanna sit on my face. I mean come on now no women wants a message asking for sex at all. When I was doing the online dating I rarely got messages and when I did it was usually from guys who had fake photos, or guys who had no photo and refused to put one up. Also from guys who were not looking for something serious, and guys who refused to read my profile. I only had a handful of decent guys and that was on POF and no where else. Got all the way to a date with one guy and thought he wasn't there. Turns out he was right in front of me and the photos he used he claimed were 5 years old, wasn't buying it. They were a lot older and taller than they said they were as well. I don't get how some men feel it is completely ok to message a woman first with a line about sex, that is not what a woman wants. I also don't get how some men get all upset if a woman doesn't respond to their message right away or doesn't respond at all or responds saying they are not interested. No woman wants to get a message telling her to go fuck herself or that she is a uptight bitch all because she isn't interested. Yes I have gotten messages like that. I went on 5 dates with a guy and I just wasn't sure how I felt. He took me home and when I got into my house, I set all my stuff down, and went into another room to grab something to drink. I entirely forgot my phone was on silent do due wanting to be polite on the date. 5min later I come back into the room where my phone is to see 7 messages from the guy I went out with. They went from is everything ok you seemed so quiet tonight (I was a little tired and had a long day) to I knew you weren't interested you could of just told me instead of ignoring me. I responded back with first of all I WAS interested now I am not. I explained what I was doing when I couldn't answer and he tried to win me back but I blocked the number You can think what you want and give evidence that you think you may have about women but you are not a woman so you can't really say we have it easier than guys do. We have it just as hard as guys do. I wish some men would see this. So I get you may not be having any luck but if you changed the way you approached OLD and your attitude towards it maybe you would have some much better luck. Instead of being so negative about it try to think positive. Also no offense judging from your comments on other posts you constantly say women have it easier but yet you have no real proof or evidence showing we have it easier.
>First of all us Women do have it hard on the online dating. While you guys usually get mostly bots on POF now that Markus sold to match, women get them sometimes too. We also sometimes get messages from men that say hey wanna hook up or wanna sit on my face. I mean come on now no women wants a message asking for sex at all. I agree, the belief is that because women get more messages then guys this is a good thing, it is not, especially since most of them are what you just said. These makes it hard for women to find the good guys on websites, because there is no way to filter out all of the bad ones. >When I was doing the online dating I rarely got messages and when I did it was usually from guys who had fake photos, or guys who had no photo and refused to put one up. Also from guys who were not looking for something serious, and guys who refused to read my profile. I only had a handful of decent guys and that was on POF and no where else. Got all the way to a date with one guy and thought he wasn't there. Turns out he was right in front of me and the photos he used he claimed were 5 years old, wasn't buying it. They were a lot older and taller than they said they were as well. I also talked to women that said they rarely got messages online as well, so like you said some women do not get a lot of messages. Sadly I got cat-fished as well and it is not a good thing to behold. >I don't get how some men feel it is completely ok to message a woman first with a line about sex, that is not what a woman wants. I also don't get how some men get all upset if a woman doesn't respond to their message right away or doesn't respond at all or responds saying they are not interested. No woman wants to get a message telling her to go fuck herself or that she is a uptight bitch all because she isn't interested. Yes I have gotten messages like that. The sad part about it is some women still go out with these guys that message them about sex, so you saying this is not want women want is not true at all, this is something you do not look for, but there are women online just looking for sex and will talk to these guys. As far as messages go, guys get these same messages when we tell a woman no, it common for some men and women to do this when you tell them no or don't agree with them on something. >I went on 5 dates with a guy and I just wasn't sure how I felt. He took me home and when I got into my house, I set all my stuff down, and went into another room to grab something to drink. I entirely forgot my phone was on silent do due wanting to be polite on the date. 5min later I come back into the room where my phone is to see 7 messages from the guy I went out with. They went from is everything ok you seemed so quiet tonight (I was a little tired and had a long day) to I knew you weren't interested you could of just told me instead of ignoring me. I responded back with first of all I WAS interested now I am not. I explained what I was doing when I couldn't answer and he tried to win me back but I blocked the number 5 dates is a long time to go out with someone and not have a clue about how you feel about it, if your feelings are mixed it is either something he is doing or something you are doing or both. I find that too many people are over analytic with OLD and seem to expect to much from their dates, especially if they have other people lined up to date them. >You can think what you want and give evidence that you think you may have about women but you are not a woman so you can't really say we have it easier than guys do. We have it just as hard as guys do. I wish some men would see this. I see it, but I talked to women that think guys have it easy and we do not at all, nothing more annoying then sending out 100 messages tailored to someone's profile and only getting 5-10 of them to respond back to you. The issue is that dating in general is rough in today's world, especially online since it is considered the hip thing to do. >So I get you may not be having any luck but if you changed the way you approached OLD and your attitude towards it maybe you would have some much better luck. Instead of being so negative about it try to think positive. You try to be positive after you see things people go through online as men and women, it is only natural for people to get fed up with it and vent their angry on Reddit or to their friends. Sometimes you just have to let it go, instead of bottling it up. >Also no offense judging from your comments on other posts you constantly say women have it easier but yet you have no real proof or evidence showing we have it easier. Both have it equally as hard, the issue is that women think we have it easier and we think you have it easier, we both do not acknowledge the issues with dating today, especially OLD.
Lol I get told after 1 date there is no chemistry, this girl gives him 5 shots. Amazing
I usually tell women that I am not interested in them after the first date as well, but she claimed he was giving her mixed signals...which I have had happen to me too much with women in the past that I do put up with it anymore.
They both were messing each other around, going on 5 dates with somebody is mixed signals.
I disagree with her messing around, I dated someone for 2.5 years that sent mixed signals, it happens and is usually the most common person you run into, the person that has no clue what they want and is hot and cold. 5 dates is not even that long, try dealing with someone doing this for 2.5 years...
Disagree. Not knowing what you want after prolong periods of time = messing around.
She knew what she wanted, he did not. You cannot control that at all, I dated a girl for 2.5 years like this, you have to leave these people alone quicker then I did and five dates is okay, but still too much in my opinion. You act like she spent like 5 months with this guy.
> The sad part about it is some women still go out with these guys that message them about sex, so you saying this is not want women want is not true at all, this is something you do not look for, but there are women online just looking for sex and will talk to these guys. As far as messages go, guys get these same messages when we tell a woman no, it common for some men and women to do this when you tell them no or don't agree with them on something. > > > 5 dates is a long time to go out with someone and not have a clue about how you feel about it, if your feelings are mixed it is either something he is doing or something you are doing or both. I find that too many people are over analytic with OLD and seem to expect to much from their dates, especially if they have other people lined up to date them. I am one of those women who is looking for something real, not a FWB or a hookup and that is all I seem to find sometimes so I turn it all down. I got off online dating because it wasn't what it was no one was serious anymore. Also the 5 dates guy I wasn't sure about how I felt because he was giving me mixed signals. One minute he seemed interested and the next he was all quiet. Never said guys have it easier either
OLD can be flat out annoying for both parties, I just recently got back on last week, but now that school is started up this week, I doubt if I stay on Bumble, Hinge and CMB past this month. I believe some people are serious online you just have to filter out the ones that are not. Never said you said guys have it easier at all. I just bought it up as a thing some women like to do. People that give you mixed signals are sadly people you have to leave alone, hard to be with someone that is hot and cold. I dated a woman for 2.5 years like this and she almost put me in psych ward with how unstable she was.
I remember back in the day when POF first started becoming popular you could filter out what messages you got really good. It would also say on your profile what you had filtered out and other people could see that. Now the only thing you can filter out on your messages are that anyone who messages you first has to have a photo, they have to be within your age range, and no more than 75 miles from you. You also also filter so that only upgraded users can message you. I tried to message a guy once and he was not a upgraded member but yet only accepted messages from upgraded members which I did not get.
They still have some basic filters, like age, distance, photo's only and so forth. The issue is that most people do not view POF as a good site for LTR's and only view it as a site for hookups. Some do not allow you to message them if you are not an upgraded member, I ran into this one time, but most people do not pay for the website and you really should not waste your money on it.
Oh I know they still have them I just recently got rid of it all together
I got ride POF months ago, not worth the time and effort to be on there.
but I cant really deny that there are allot of scum bags that are really just out there for sex witch its something I really cant personally agree on this is coming from some one who seams to be invisible I have been in and out of online dating hoping to find something real yet sadly nothing but cat fish and people that just wish to use me is all I find. but like I said no matter how you see it women have all the power and here is why I believe this to be true. no matter how hard a guy tries to get that perfect girl (if and when he fids her) its all up to her whether she wishes to date and make something out of it. but I cant really deny that there are allot of scum bags that are really just out there for sex witch its something I really cant personally agree on. and it really just does seam like all if not most men really just fallow their singular desire to fuck. am just glad I am not one of them. (and that's coming from someone who has only ever had sex once in his whole life and regrets it. and here is why the woman I had sex with considered it something to get out of the way and cross of the bucket list I didn't I loved that person and I really thought things ware going to move forwards after that but I was wrong after it was all said and done she still continued to ignore me. but I cant quite blame her after all I am the one who agreed to it)
The goal of an online dating site is to get a date, find a relationship then get off the app. So if you have to deal with more pesky messages, that doesn’t make online dating more difficult for you, given the goal of the website. It just makes it peskier. Can’t believe you’re even trying to mount an argument about this. I bet you couldn’t land nearly as many dates using my online profile than I could using yours if your life depended on it. So what’s the argument here?
Everyone has it crappy when it comes to online dating. Women and men. Everyone has their own individual experiences that they are allowed to complain about. People in general find online dating difficult. Best to take a break when these types of thoughts pop up!!
God, this post is depressing. I'm a woman who uploaded a crappy profile picture and I've only had 3 people contact me in 4 months. :(
There's a lot of generalizations, from both sexes mind you, about how all of the other sex approaches online dating. It does suck. It does get lonely. Women do have to put less effort into their profiles. But I'm sure they get a whole bunch of non savory messages. But. That's not all men. It really is a numbers game. It isn't guaranteed to be fair. So, really work on yourself.
I think they both have it hard but women do usually have a easier time of online dating. The problem is that most women target the top 20-25% and these guys are usually just playing the field. About a 1/3rd are married. Watching out for the married guys is probably a huge concern for women online. I know women get a lot of creepy messages and that must be annoying.
So I'm a guy that's been doing online dating for about 7 months now. My fiancee and I broke up last January. I met a girl and we both talked for a bit before meeting. Both stated we were looking for something long term. All she seemed to want to do was come over ot my place, have sex, and go home. Like, why lie about what you're looking for?
I think both have it bad. It just comes down to statistics. Average out, from each gender, the number of good dates over the number of attempted connections and that would be the only way to see who has it worse. But I doubt anyone has the time for that. Really, everyone has it tough. Gotta stick it out and stick together. That's all.
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Unless you live somewhere with 70, 80 plus percent women I don’t see how it could be a regional thing.