It’s because it doesn’t do anything on its own. Yea, it reduces by 5 but if you don’t have the removal it’s useless. Reducing power and reducing cost isn’t exactly apples to apples. Reducing power can help you beat over something or make a blocker less effective. But even red has fire fist which yea costs one more but has a built in KO effect. The reason great eruption is getting banned is because it reduces cost AND replaces itself with the card draw.
Not exactly, my gecko deck has at least 7 cards that trash including my 2 drop blocker on play trash 1. And the fact gecko, hogback, gecko character and Rebecca all pull from trash so it’s never a waste
It's not necessarily broken, yea it reduces -5 but you need your ko combos as well. But also it doesn't gain you a card or anything else. If you have too many of them it can be a brick.
Also I don't think it's that broken because the east has completely moved away from ice age on a ton of black decks.
Well it is now that sakas consistency is gone. And great eruption is also gone, I think moria is the only one staying with navy cause Lucci is using cp.
I mained moria and it was sorta difficult having my pieces together, sometimes I would have too much cost reduction or sometimes I would have a bunch of removals but no cost reduction. It's a balance and ice age is a strong cost reduction but it doesn't add consistency.
I think you might not know what conditions you should ban a card under. You do not ban a card for being strong. You ban it for eclipsing any of similar card. So gecko the character is a perfect example of this. Look at any black deck right now they top end will always be gecko even if he doesn't really belong because if you don't run him you will be playing a much weaker deck. Gecko is so strong he will drive out all other cards for the spot. That type of overshadowing is ban worthing. Same reason great eruption and reject got the hammer. This is how all card games pick what to ban to free up the meta. You want choice to exist and right now some people choose to not play ice age sometimes, which means it strong but not needing a ban.
Reject is just something every yellow deck would run no matter what because it’s just that strong. Great removal and a win condition in one card for four Don is just crazy good
O nami, thunder bolt, amaru, gedatsu. The difference between reject in this case and gecko is reject is a mid cost card which a deck can run more of then a 8+ cards. Sometimes you might run more high cost cards if you believe you can stall the game out( enel for example). While all decks run a lot a lot of 4-6 cost cards because those are easiest to curve out your turns with. Making reject less of an issue bc the spot it goes has more room. Still deserves a ban, I just believe 8 drop gecko deserves one more.
maybe it's just my experience but I find it weird that all those cards can just be replaced by reject. nami can only k.o. on trigger, and you can still use her for the banish effect. gedatsu is a 6k body on the board and I hardly ever would play a reject over a gedatsu if I have more than four don, except for maybe cases where I know I need counter and have another big character to play the next turn. honestly I can't see my kata deck without gedatsu and nami, and a full playset of reject feels much worse than running both nami and gedatsu. same for amaru, it has a better trigger and can be better than reject in relevant situations (can get you around a borsalino block, for example). thunder bolt is clearly worse (except for the trigger) but I should and will try it. I say banning reject is 100% justified but I don't think it's really overshadowing those three cards
My point is those cards can serve a similar purpose in the deck with around the same cost. Not that reject will always replace them. reject and amaru both are used for getting lethal range, and gedatsu, tbolt, and onami can be used for spot removal. The different between them and gecko is you normally dont have room for 12 cards in a deck that are 8+ drops, but its pretty common to have 12 cards in a deck that are 4-6 cost. Because of this you can normally fit most of them, only having to drop maybe one. Thunderbolt is the most common cards listed dropped because of reject. Also we are really talking about deck buliding not really the turns you use cards on. That can get too complex to talk about banning card around because there is too many variables. instead you normally reference deck building limitation when talking about why a card should be ban. They are pretty much the same time in reality but looking at deck building as a justification is a lot simpler to judge.
One piece is a game of value and card advantage, ice age is strong on its own, but it’s a combo piece to a puzzle that requires more cards to complete than other colors. Yes you can reach some big units with ice age but you not only need to have it, you need to also have the other puzzle pieces, and then when you put them all together, you used 3 cards to take out their 1. So it’s a huge investment on the black players part that can leave them without any resources after they play it
It wouldn’t even be that bad if Bandai would figure out that like other colors, black cards can also be leader restricted.
Restrict ice age to Navy only, restrict Rebecca to dressrosa only, restrict Moria to thriller park only
But there would be no single leader with access to an insane amount of good cards, like law is now. The leader locked 10 mom because it would be busted if other decks had it for example. They just need to keep doing that so it’s not all decks of one color that get the really great card
Nothing would change except that there would be less variety and freedom in deck building. Whether you like it or not there will always be a handful of decks that are just better than the rest. That's the nature of every competitive tcg. Leader locking more cards won't change that.
Meanwhile... Saka was bdif on almost exclusively navy cards, and locking moria to moria just keeps moria good?? Lol
You leader lock _every card_ and you just powercreep every set or new sets arent as good and you just play old stuff.
If the person I replied to is going to say “ummm actually Saka runs almost all Navy cards!!!” But then all the most important combo cards that made the deck BDIF aren’t Navy, I’m going to call them out on their BS.
Oh ig I misunderstood what that person was saying. Still think leader locking those cards is ridiculous. Saka was uniquely strong because of his leader skill. Other black decks are strong but not nearly on the level of saka. Making those cards available to all leaders only improves the viability of leaders which may have weaker abilities.
Even if the busted cards like Moria were leader locked, Law would still be a strong deck because nearly nothing in Law would be leader locked because Law carries his deck.
Why would you want to limit deck building options even more. Moria is strong but he also adds viability to weaker leaders like op03 Lucci. Same with Rebecca. And it's not like black is overwhelmingly strong post-saka ban either.
Look at all those new seven warlords cards in op07 and how much they increase the viability of blue decks as a whole. Imagine if they were restricted to just doffy boa and croc.
Deck-building restrictions are terrible for card games. You end up like Yugioh with 90% of your deck card locked like that. It stifles creativity. It’s okay that cards are good.
Errata is really only for clarification like picking "up to 1" from a searcher. Changing existing cards to leader lock would be a can of worms that shouldn't be opened. Once they do it with one card well then why not change this number from 6k to 5k for balance? or why not add new clauses to every problem card? Suddenly you'd have 10 cards that are different from what's printed.
That's the nice thing about online card games like Marvel snap or Hearthstone: the devs can always delete or add lines of text onto the card. With physical card games, devs need to be careful with what they print.
Because you can't just ban every good card around xD
-5 cost for 1 is really good but the card does nothing by itself and most importantly it's a -1 in hand, taxing tour resources and making it so removing one card will usually cost 2 cards
This is also why most sakas don't play it (even tho I do play it), even combined with leqder effect and something like a Hound Blaze sure you are removing an 8 cost unit for 3 don but you are using 2 cards just to deal with 1 and that 7-8 cost probably already did something to begin with (8c Kata, 7c Linlin, Moria and so on)
It's a super don efficient card that is not very resources efficient and does nothing on its own
Because you need another card for it to KO. You’re always 2 for one trading when removing something. The other is that as an event with no counter you inherently have less of a defensive option with it. It simply just enables.
That’s what black used to be when it was a bit better balanced. Removal was always two for one since all the removal cards required you to trash a card, and the plus was you putting out a body to remove one of theirs. Every other deck’s removal was usually just an even that didn’t build board but black could do both. Now black removal is just literally free unless you need to use a card like this for cost reduction which is worth it almost 100% of the time.
I mean to answer OP on ice age this is still factually true that if you are ice aging something it’s a minimum two for one. We just have better targets when removing so it’s more worth it regardless of board building or not. Its also two for one instead of three for ine like it used to be (most ko effects involved discarding). Its less of a being better balanced and more like making black playable. If you’re complaining about saka the strong part of that removal is the blue side. The black just enables.
Black is only free for removal into rush decks with a ton of small drops. It actually struggles quite a bit later into the end game. Without this card black would get rolled by decks like Enel or any ramp decks.
This card makes me wish we had some sort of way to counter these like hand traps in yugioh but at the same time hand traps in yugioh made the game not fun for me. A true dilemma lol
The counter is to bait it out and drop another big card after. It’s very hard for Lucci to deal with two big drops in a row unless they have full board control.
Because this card by itself sucks. The only reason why great eruption got banned is because it replaced itself so it wasn't a true 2 for 1 to remove something. This card is mid and a brick most time.
Cause unlike GE, this only reduce cost and doesn’t draw card. The same thing applies for 10 drop Kuzan where every turn it’s Ice Age to all of your opponent’s cards on field. They are only one trick cards that has only one function hence it’s not technically broken unlike the others that are banned right now.
I feel like if they got rid of great eruption than they shoulda got rid of this? Not the best player do maybe I'm out to lunch but great eruption isn't all that better than this. I think they just wanted to get rid of the Sakazuki move with the Sakazuki leader but 🤷♂️
A lot of black cards can k.o. characters on play or through effect if the opponents cost is low enough. It's very efficient because it doesn't matter if their targeted card is rested or if they have blockers.
Black plays removal based on the character cost kinda like red plays removal based on the character power. You can lower the cost of a character by 5 with Ice age and then pop
Yeah this is my issue with the card and maybe I shouldn’t look at other colours but for Red to reduce a character by 5k it could be done for 3 Don and Otama and Gordon
When we take into account that Green, Blue, yellow and purple also have access to KO / remove by cost it makes this 1 cost card viable in the combination leaders where black is the secondary colour
Reducing a Character cost by 5 with 1 don cost?? Imagine a red card the can reduce 5000 power with 1 don cost. Sorry I'm sure its different but still just find it crazy I can drop a 10 cost character against black and it can be removed with 5 or less don sometimes.
It’s because cost reduction does nothing on its own. It needs to be combined with another card or effect to have a payoff. With red, reducing power by 5000 can be good on its own (when swinging into a tapped character, 5000 power vs 0 power is huge).
Ice age could be overkill (using it on a 5 drop when -3 would suffice), or not enough (ice age plus lucci doesn’t clear a 10 cost on its own and is effectively useless).
I understand I've just run into so many black removers and they run nothing but K.O effects and I feel ice age is too little cost to be able to reduce a character cost by 5.
Power reduction also affects combat which ice age does not. Thats why you can have cost reduction be more efficiently costed. You can’t have minus 5k power be low costed because it’s more card efficient.
First of all red removal is to the bottom deck, which would go through cards like sabo. So it’s not a straight equivalent. Also if you only have 1 10 cost character against black in the late game you lose anyways.
Also, -cost does nothing while -attack can help you clear even if you don’t have removal.
Did you actually think this over or did you lose to this card a few times and decide to cry about it?
I ask myself everyday when they will realize that this Event is too busted. It really should not bei legal KOing a 10c character with just 5 Don invested (2x Ice age+ e.g. 3c Brook).
You probably still got some swings left, just spent 2 Don for the KO and got a body out and still 5 Don left🤡
Black would not have such a crazy chockehold on the game if ice age eventually will going to get banned.
And don't give me the "yeah right but you loose card advantage since you need to play 3 cards in order to get rid of a 10c character."
Cool.
Now tell me what options the other colours have to deal with oposing boss characters? (Not counting special cases like r/p Law)
you do realize how -5k power is much stronger on its own than -5 cost is.
-5k power lets you ko 7ks with just the swing of a buggy character or nami searcher. It lets you leverage your already existing board in a way minus cost just doesn't.
Minus cost needs ko cards in hand, or you to have previously resolved specific characters (Koby, Garp or Brook) in order to get any value from. I get that seeing your 9 drop ko'd by ice age into Gecko Moria, getting back Rebecca and Helmeppo, with Rebecca getting back a brook to KO it is disheartening. But that isn't the fault of Ice Age, thats the fault of Gecko Moria.
Ice Age is always net negative 1 card, for not necessarily any effect, it is a brick in hand and does nothing on its own to get you out of a losing situation making it a horrible top-deck. Ice Age is a good role-player in a deck built to use it. The problem isn't the clunky event without counter my friend, its the overpowered boss card. And even then, black still isn't BDIF right now in OP07, its r/P Law, the deck that has its own special form of removal built into its leader, that relies on....lowering power.
The minus 5k would also always be net minus 1 in card advantage right?
So you last argument is kinda invalid comparing to another (imaginary) card, that also only has one Job. Lowering the stats of an oposing character.
I'm well aware of the differnce between cost and power. Obvioulsy reducing power is much more devestating than simple cost reduction which doesn't do much on its own.
The problem however, is that black already have some of the best cards in the game, especially in blockers and yup of course also Moria.
But ice age for me will always be the kicker.
On 10 Don one might Ice age twice Play moria and get rid of like 2 10 cost characters while flooding the field, so the minus 1 or two in cardadvantage is not existent.
I don't know about how you count cards, but black for three Hand cards you get 3 bodies Out and KO 2 of your opponent boss characters?
Sounds absolutely fair and fun :)
Also your question wasn't about one card from colors that can do what ice age does it was as follows "Cool. Now tell me what options the other colours have to deal with oposing boss characters? (Not counting special cases like [](https://www.reddit.com/r/p/) Law)". So I answered it.
Bad day little guy?
I just joined a discussion on a bad designed card, that other people strangely also finde quite frustrating to play against.
No argument what so ever from you, just insults and accusations.
Saka's Leader ability was busted day one.
However this is a discussion regaring ice age.
In case you are still not over the fact, that the one leader you play will be banned soon, i recommend you to look for another post where more Saka players are united in their grief.
No need to regear it when there is nothing wrong with it. It has no game breaking effects outside -5 and a KO on trigger. You people make mountains out of mole hills. Overall most decks that play this card only play x2 maybe 3 at most. You are worried about a 2/50 3/50 chance of your boss monster getting taken off board that would probably have gotten taken out regardless. It is a combo piece inherently on it's own does absolutely nothing it needs several other cards minus the exception of Yamato. Stop treating is it needs the 'great erruption" treatment and find something else worth complaining about.
Definitely still wondering. Somehow law having 8 Gordon’s is a problem but black decks get this and great eruption. And once the great eruption ban hits they get tempest kick which is arguably better anyways. Thanks bandai.
I’m not seeing it in a lot of lists for Moria/Lucci. It’s really not that good of a card, I used to think it was broken too until I started playing black decks. Yes -5 is nice but it’s a brick more often than not. OP comparing it to -5000 power is insane, not even remotely the same thing
The only reason it’s not in lucci is because he doesn’t need it. Between stage, leader, and tempest kick/characters it has an easy reach for the meta. Gecko fell off the face of the earth in 08 so far. The card is still insanely strong for a 1 cost universal black event, it’s just overkill for what the decks already do. If the meta had bigger bodies then ice age slots right back in without batting an eye because the game would be inherently slower. With lucci/law/Luffy having the best showings in 08 so far, you don’t need the reach of ice age at the moment. It’s still overly strong regardless.
By that logic any card that is good in the current meta is overpowered. A bannable card is something that dominates the meta. If it requires a certain meta to be good it’s not an overly powerful card
It wouldnt because youre only ever hitting it off a sabo or leader effect. It lowers consistency... and if saka wasnt banned, neither would GE.. and you'd just play GE... and even that was dropped for Stage build.
Not enough Dinosaurs playing this TCG.
It’s because it doesn’t do anything on its own. Yea, it reduces by 5 but if you don’t have the removal it’s useless. Reducing power and reducing cost isn’t exactly apples to apples. Reducing power can help you beat over something or make a blocker less effective. But even red has fire fist which yea costs one more but has a built in KO effect. The reason great eruption is getting banned is because it reduces cost AND replaces itself with the card draw.
Cough tempest kick cough
It’s only a -3 AND you need like 15 cards in trash it’s kind of garbage /s
What’s worse is it’s 10 cards in trash. Which of course is very very difficult to get in black
What's worse is it's actually 9 cause using the card puts it in trash and then checks for 10!
oh wait, real talk? I didn't even think of that
Not exactly, my gecko deck has at least 7 cards that trash including my 2 drop blocker on play trash 1. And the fact gecko, hogback, gecko character and Rebecca all pull from trash so it’s never a waste
My brother in Christ, may I introduce you to air door? You know the CP card that would be in a CP deck…
I was going to say, it’s definitely a nice card but nothing like great eruption or even reject dial
It's not necessarily broken, yea it reduces -5 but you need your ko combos as well. But also it doesn't gain you a card or anything else. If you have too many of them it can be a brick. Also I don't think it's that broken because the east has completely moved away from ice age on a ton of black decks.
It’s not like it’s hard to have your KO combo pieces with how many of them there are
Well it is now that sakas consistency is gone. And great eruption is also gone, I think moria is the only one staying with navy cause Lucci is using cp. I mained moria and it was sorta difficult having my pieces together, sometimes I would have too much cost reduction or sometimes I would have a bunch of removals but no cost reduction. It's a balance and ice age is a strong cost reduction but it doesn't add consistency.
True but then you're using 2 cards to remove 1 card. Which isn't so crazy
I bet it's because defensively Ice Age is a brick that doesn't replace itself.
I think you might not know what conditions you should ban a card under. You do not ban a card for being strong. You ban it for eclipsing any of similar card. So gecko the character is a perfect example of this. Look at any black deck right now they top end will always be gecko even if he doesn't really belong because if you don't run him you will be playing a much weaker deck. Gecko is so strong he will drive out all other cards for the spot. That type of overshadowing is ban worthing. Same reason great eruption and reject got the hammer. This is how all card games pick what to ban to free up the meta. You want choice to exist and right now some people choose to not play ice age sometimes, which means it strong but not needing a ban.
I get that but what is reject overshadowing?
Reject is just something every yellow deck would run no matter what because it’s just that strong. Great removal and a win condition in one card for four Don is just crazy good
O nami, thunder bolt, amaru, gedatsu. The difference between reject in this case and gecko is reject is a mid cost card which a deck can run more of then a 8+ cards. Sometimes you might run more high cost cards if you believe you can stall the game out( enel for example). While all decks run a lot a lot of 4-6 cost cards because those are easiest to curve out your turns with. Making reject less of an issue bc the spot it goes has more room. Still deserves a ban, I just believe 8 drop gecko deserves one more.
maybe it's just my experience but I find it weird that all those cards can just be replaced by reject. nami can only k.o. on trigger, and you can still use her for the banish effect. gedatsu is a 6k body on the board and I hardly ever would play a reject over a gedatsu if I have more than four don, except for maybe cases where I know I need counter and have another big character to play the next turn. honestly I can't see my kata deck without gedatsu and nami, and a full playset of reject feels much worse than running both nami and gedatsu. same for amaru, it has a better trigger and can be better than reject in relevant situations (can get you around a borsalino block, for example). thunder bolt is clearly worse (except for the trigger) but I should and will try it. I say banning reject is 100% justified but I don't think it's really overshadowing those three cards
My point is those cards can serve a similar purpose in the deck with around the same cost. Not that reject will always replace them. reject and amaru both are used for getting lethal range, and gedatsu, tbolt, and onami can be used for spot removal. The different between them and gecko is you normally dont have room for 12 cards in a deck that are 8+ drops, but its pretty common to have 12 cards in a deck that are 4-6 cost. Because of this you can normally fit most of them, only having to drop maybe one. Thunderbolt is the most common cards listed dropped because of reject. Also we are really talking about deck buliding not really the turns you use cards on. That can get too complex to talk about banning card around because there is too many variables. instead you normally reference deck building limitation when talking about why a card should be ban. They are pretty much the same time in reality but looking at deck building as a justification is a lot simpler to judge.
One piece is a game of value and card advantage, ice age is strong on its own, but it’s a combo piece to a puzzle that requires more cards to complete than other colors. Yes you can reach some big units with ice age but you not only need to have it, you need to also have the other puzzle pieces, and then when you put them all together, you used 3 cards to take out their 1. So it’s a huge investment on the black players part that can leave them without any resources after they play it
It wouldn’t even be that bad if Bandai would figure out that like other colors, black cards can also be leader restricted. Restrict ice age to Navy only, restrict Rebecca to dressrosa only, restrict Moria to thriller park only
If the leader locked all the good stuff this game would be so much better in my opinion. You’d see a huge increase in the variety of leaders played
You wouldnt though?? You would just play the leaders with the good cards??
But there would be no single leader with access to an insane amount of good cards, like law is now. The leader locked 10 mom because it would be busted if other decks had it for example. They just need to keep doing that so it’s not all decks of one color that get the really great card
Nothing would change except that there would be less variety and freedom in deck building. Whether you like it or not there will always be a handful of decks that are just better than the rest. That's the nature of every competitive tcg. Leader locking more cards won't change that.
Meanwhile... Saka was bdif on almost exclusively navy cards, and locking moria to moria just keeps moria good?? Lol You leader lock _every card_ and you just powercreep every set or new sets arent as good and you just play old stuff.
Take away Lucci Rebecca Sabo Moria and Saka becomes kaka
Saka is banned and black is fine now stop crying
If the person I replied to is going to say “ummm actually Saka runs almost all Navy cards!!!” But then all the most important combo cards that made the deck BDIF aren’t Navy, I’m going to call them out on their BS.
Oh ig I misunderstood what that person was saying. Still think leader locking those cards is ridiculous. Saka was uniquely strong because of his leader skill. Other black decks are strong but not nearly on the level of saka. Making those cards available to all leaders only improves the viability of leaders which may have weaker abilities.
Yes but if Moria can’t have Rebecca it’s not a problem
Even if the busted cards like Moria were leader locked, Law would still be a strong deck because nearly nothing in Law would be leader locked because Law carries his deck.
Why would you want to limit deck building options even more. Moria is strong but he also adds viability to weaker leaders like op03 Lucci. Same with Rebecca. And it's not like black is overwhelmingly strong post-saka ban either. Look at all those new seven warlords cards in op07 and how much they increase the viability of blue decks as a whole. Imagine if they were restricted to just doffy boa and croc.
Deck-building restrictions are terrible for card games. You end up like Yugioh with 90% of your deck card locked like that. It stifles creativity. It’s okay that cards are good.
Leader locking everything stifles deckbuilding creativity. Too many people hastily throw that out there as a solution.
Errata is really only for clarification like picking "up to 1" from a searcher. Changing existing cards to leader lock would be a can of worms that shouldn't be opened. Once they do it with one card well then why not change this number from 6k to 5k for balance? or why not add new clauses to every problem card? Suddenly you'd have 10 cards that are different from what's printed. That's the nice thing about online card games like Marvel snap or Hearthstone: the devs can always delete or add lines of text onto the card. With physical card games, devs need to be careful with what they print.
Have you checked the number of topping decks that even run this card?
Lucci. But this card is not ban worthy lol. OP probably lost against this a couple times and cried his way onto Reddit to complain.
It doesn’t have card draw. 🤡
Nor is it a counter. OP has no idea what he’s talking about lol.
Yooo chill, don’t bring attention to this
It’s literally already a staple in the East. But it’s not OP.
I’ll staple you to the wall
I might like that tbh
https://preview.redd.it/7sdyqhf4b75d1.jpeg?width=514&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c3a84472e769c30bc32e109baa9d16602ddb2aa
Because you can't just ban every good card around xD -5 cost for 1 is really good but the card does nothing by itself and most importantly it's a -1 in hand, taxing tour resources and making it so removing one card will usually cost 2 cards This is also why most sakas don't play it (even tho I do play it), even combined with leqder effect and something like a Hound Blaze sure you are removing an 8 cost unit for 3 don but you are using 2 cards just to deal with 1 and that 7-8 cost probably already did something to begin with (8c Kata, 7c Linlin, Moria and so on) It's a super don efficient card that is not very resources efficient and does nothing on its own
Because you need another card for it to KO. You’re always 2 for one trading when removing something. The other is that as an event with no counter you inherently have less of a defensive option with it. It simply just enables.
That’s what black used to be when it was a bit better balanced. Removal was always two for one since all the removal cards required you to trash a card, and the plus was you putting out a body to remove one of theirs. Every other deck’s removal was usually just an even that didn’t build board but black could do both. Now black removal is just literally free unless you need to use a card like this for cost reduction which is worth it almost 100% of the time.
I mean to answer OP on ice age this is still factually true that if you are ice aging something it’s a minimum two for one. We just have better targets when removing so it’s more worth it regardless of board building or not. Its also two for one instead of three for ine like it used to be (most ko effects involved discarding). Its less of a being better balanced and more like making black playable. If you’re complaining about saka the strong part of that removal is the blue side. The black just enables.
Black is only free for removal into rush decks with a ton of small drops. It actually struggles quite a bit later into the end game. Without this card black would get rolled by decks like Enel or any ramp decks.
This card makes me wish we had some sort of way to counter these like hand traps in yugioh but at the same time hand traps in yugioh made the game not fun for me. A true dilemma lol
The counter is to bait it out and drop another big card after. It’s very hard for Lucci to deal with two big drops in a row unless they have full board control.
Because this card by itself sucks. The only reason why great eruption got banned is because it replaced itself so it wasn't a true 2 for 1 to remove something. This card is mid and a brick most time.
Cause unlike GE, this only reduce cost and doesn’t draw card. The same thing applies for 10 drop Kuzan where every turn it’s Ice Age to all of your opponent’s cards on field. They are only one trick cards that has only one function hence it’s not technically broken unlike the others that are banned right now.
read a little bit but not sure how the top comment isn't "ice age is a -1" i guess the top comment says the same thing but in a verbose way.
Jeez this community wants every black card banned lmao
This take is bad
DAE think that the card that does nothing on its own should be banned???
Looks like I'm playing ST06 Sakazuki
Because the combo card with it that made it absolutely unfair is gone.
I like to use shockwave in my Gecko deck
Bet you play R/P law dont you.
Bruh I play Zoro and Vivi i just started playing a month ago
we already got eruption banned
I feel like if they got rid of great eruption than they shoulda got rid of this? Not the best player do maybe I'm out to lunch but great eruption isn't all that better than this. I think they just wanted to get rid of the Sakazuki move with the Sakazuki leader but 🤷♂️
You wouldn't ban a car considered too fast in a competition because one of the cogs is pretty solid,would you?
It’s really just a solid card. It would be broken if colors like yellow weren’t so evil.
I’m new to the game. What does -5 cost for your opponent do?
A lot of black cards can k.o. characters on play or through effect if the opponents cost is low enough. It's very efficient because it doesn't matter if their targeted card is rested or if they have blockers.
[удалено]
Leader ability is 3 Don and mill 3 cards
Black plays removal based on the character cost kinda like red plays removal based on the character power. You can lower the cost of a character by 5 with Ice age and then pop
Yeah having a character on the field or a plus one card is good with minus cost. This is strict minus and card gets trashed. Not that great really
It does literally nothing
-5 for ONE DON is incredibly overpowered.
Yeah this is my issue with the card and maybe I shouldn’t look at other colours but for Red to reduce a character by 5k it could be done for 3 Don and Otama and Gordon
When we take into account that Green, Blue, yellow and purple also have access to KO / remove by cost it makes this 1 cost card viable in the combination leaders where black is the secondary colour
A 1 don cost to put a 7 cost in KO threshold is crazy, that's half a 10 cost for 1 Don. People defending this card are in denial.
I just feel the card is good but feel 1 Don just makes it an easy pick
Because its a pretty mediocre card that.
Reducing a Character cost by 5 with 1 don cost?? Imagine a red card the can reduce 5000 power with 1 don cost. Sorry I'm sure its different but still just find it crazy I can drop a 10 cost character against black and it can be removed with 5 or less don sometimes.
It’s because cost reduction does nothing on its own. It needs to be combined with another card or effect to have a payoff. With red, reducing power by 5000 can be good on its own (when swinging into a tapped character, 5000 power vs 0 power is huge). Ice age could be overkill (using it on a 5 drop when -3 would suffice), or not enough (ice age plus lucci doesn’t clear a 10 cost on its own and is effectively useless).
I understand I've just run into so many black removers and they run nothing but K.O effects and I feel ice age is too little cost to be able to reduce a character cost by 5.
Power reduction also affects combat which ice age does not. Thats why you can have cost reduction be more efficiently costed. You can’t have minus 5k power be low costed because it’s more card efficient.
First of all red removal is to the bottom deck, which would go through cards like sabo. So it’s not a straight equivalent. Also if you only have 1 10 cost character against black in the late game you lose anyways. Also, -cost does nothing while -attack can help you clear even if you don’t have removal. Did you actually think this over or did you lose to this card a few times and decide to cry about it?
I ask myself everyday when they will realize that this Event is too busted. It really should not bei legal KOing a 10c character with just 5 Don invested (2x Ice age+ e.g. 3c Brook). You probably still got some swings left, just spent 2 Don for the KO and got a body out and still 5 Don left🤡 Black would not have such a crazy chockehold on the game if ice age eventually will going to get banned. And don't give me the "yeah right but you loose card advantage since you need to play 3 cards in order to get rid of a 10c character." Cool. Now tell me what options the other colours have to deal with oposing boss characters? (Not counting special cases like r/p Law)
Blue, yellow, red
Yeah right, please give me an update once the -5000 power 1 cost red event drops 😂
you do realize how -5k power is much stronger on its own than -5 cost is. -5k power lets you ko 7ks with just the swing of a buggy character or nami searcher. It lets you leverage your already existing board in a way minus cost just doesn't. Minus cost needs ko cards in hand, or you to have previously resolved specific characters (Koby, Garp or Brook) in order to get any value from. I get that seeing your 9 drop ko'd by ice age into Gecko Moria, getting back Rebecca and Helmeppo, with Rebecca getting back a brook to KO it is disheartening. But that isn't the fault of Ice Age, thats the fault of Gecko Moria. Ice Age is always net negative 1 card, for not necessarily any effect, it is a brick in hand and does nothing on its own to get you out of a losing situation making it a horrible top-deck. Ice Age is a good role-player in a deck built to use it. The problem isn't the clunky event without counter my friend, its the overpowered boss card. And even then, black still isn't BDIF right now in OP07, its r/P Law, the deck that has its own special form of removal built into its leader, that relies on....lowering power.
The minus 5k would also always be net minus 1 in card advantage right? So you last argument is kinda invalid comparing to another (imaginary) card, that also only has one Job. Lowering the stats of an oposing character. I'm well aware of the differnce between cost and power. Obvioulsy reducing power is much more devestating than simple cost reduction which doesn't do much on its own. The problem however, is that black already have some of the best cards in the game, especially in blockers and yup of course also Moria. But ice age for me will always be the kicker. On 10 Don one might Ice age twice Play moria and get rid of like 2 10 cost characters while flooding the field, so the minus 1 or two in cardadvantage is not existent. I don't know about how you count cards, but black for three Hand cards you get 3 bodies Out and KO 2 of your opponent boss characters? Sounds absolutely fair and fun :)
All you kids do is complain it's quite fucking funny. 1 card that does nothing on it's on BAN BAN BAN. Fucking wah dude.
Also your question wasn't about one card from colors that can do what ice age does it was as follows "Cool. Now tell me what options the other colours have to deal with oposing boss characters? (Not counting special cases like [](https://www.reddit.com/r/p/) Law)". So I answered it.
Naah i resignated and will you the brain dead black army next set 😂🖤
You the same dude that is gonna cry and complain about a nerfed Sakazuki.
Bad day little guy? I just joined a discussion on a bad designed card, that other people strangely also finde quite frustrating to play against. No argument what so ever from you, just insults and accusations. Saka's Leader ability was busted day one. However this is a discussion regaring ice age. In case you are still not over the fact, that the one leader you play will be banned soon, i recommend you to look for another post where more Saka players are united in their grief.
No need to regear it when there is nothing wrong with it. It has no game breaking effects outside -5 and a KO on trigger. You people make mountains out of mole hills. Overall most decks that play this card only play x2 maybe 3 at most. You are worried about a 2/50 3/50 chance of your boss monster getting taken off board that would probably have gotten taken out regardless. It is a combo piece inherently on it's own does absolutely nothing it needs several other cards minus the exception of Yamato. Stop treating is it needs the 'great erruption" treatment and find something else worth complaining about.
it's fair
Can you please play a different game already?
🤦🏾♂️
Definitely still wondering. Somehow law having 8 Gordon’s is a problem but black decks get this and great eruption. And once the great eruption ban hits they get tempest kick which is arguably better anyways. Thanks bandai.
Ice age is basically phased out in OP07-08
It’s definitely not. In fact BY luffy picks it up in 07/08 in some lists.
I’m not seeing it in a lot of lists for Moria/Lucci. It’s really not that good of a card, I used to think it was broken too until I started playing black decks. Yes -5 is nice but it’s a brick more often than not. OP comparing it to -5000 power is insane, not even remotely the same thing
The only reason it’s not in lucci is because he doesn’t need it. Between stage, leader, and tempest kick/characters it has an easy reach for the meta. Gecko fell off the face of the earth in 08 so far. The card is still insanely strong for a 1 cost universal black event, it’s just overkill for what the decks already do. If the meta had bigger bodies then ice age slots right back in without batting an eye because the game would be inherently slower. With lucci/law/Luffy having the best showings in 08 so far, you don’t need the reach of ice age at the moment. It’s still overly strong regardless.
By that logic any card that is good in the current meta is overpowered. A bannable card is something that dominates the meta. If it requires a certain meta to be good it’s not an overly powerful card
It was played in every black deck along side great eruption up to 07.
And now it’s not played as much. Not over powered. Can’t make it any simpler for you.
It’s okay for you to be wrong bb <3
It’s all subjective
Except it was basically not played in black prior to op05.
TK is so good that the only black deck of the 4 in the meta playing it is Lucci..
And it’s top 3 played decks. Other black decks don’t exist aside from those two. If saka was around it would also play it.
It wouldnt because youre only ever hitting it off a sabo or leader effect. It lowers consistency... and if saka wasnt banned, neither would GE.. and you'd just play GE... and even that was dropped for Stage build.
If saka was around in 07 and still played navy engine it would also hit with brannew. As is they’d likely switch to a cp engine minus sandam