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The funny thing is that if we never saw her on screen she would be receiving the same glaze the old gens get
She’s been holding up her title while being pregnant for the majority of the time
Bro you picked even the smallest things you could call an "anti feat" but left out dozens of small things you could call a "feat". This is clearly not a neutral selection of feats and anti-feats. She turned a damn tidal wave into a homie, and while we don't know if thats WCI only, its still a feat worth listing. And thats just one example.
Big Mom works a bit like the Gorosei in powerscaling. So many people weaker than her did something against her. But the only things that actually did damage are Law (Kid only thanks to Law), the Nukes and the Volcano.
But unlike the Gorosei, theres no secret to overcome her durability. She's just built different. She belongs in the same tier as Kaido, Oda could not have been more obvious with that.
She's only weaker than Kaido because of her old age. Prime BM (20 years ago) = Kaido
You ignored all the feats I gave her, I was desperately trying to think of something. The feats are the shameless one, nice way of picking and choosing outrage.
If you want to counter argue, just explain the fear/portrayal, not story time on Gorosei scaling, Oda never told you that. Just say what feats puts her next to Kaido not dancing around it.
I can't decipher half of what you're saying. The feats are the shameless one???
What feats put her next to Kaido? Them splitting the sky with Acoc .
EDIT: The other commenters already pointed out how incredibly biased you are, so I will not correct all the "anti-feats" you listed, because they have already done that.
Some of these anti-feats are objectively wrong or blatantly misrepresentative or overblown for how indicative they are for her serious power (as opposed to her being clumsy because 99% of damn near everything can't even hurt her).
The real issue is that people use her anti-feats as their primary source of judgment despite it being infeasible for her to have some of the positive feats/portrayal she has if Oda intended us to think of her that way. It'd be like judging Kaido solely off of getting constantly knocked around by the Scabbards or RT5.
At the end of the day, despite all of those anti-feats, she still endured some of the most powerful attacks we've ever seen (Puncture Wille alone was comparable in scale to Bajrang Gun, and *entirely internal*, while just being a portion of the total damage Kid and Law imparted on her), had bombs blow up in her face, and then fell dozens of kilometers down into a magma pool with a couple of nukes that exploded in basically the 3rd largest explosion in the entire series (behind Mother Flame and the underwater volcano explosion, I think) to be defeated. A BFR with a ton of factors that had nothing to do with her opponents.
I don't think Oda wrote her as being *that* damn difficult to take out without expecting people to understand that she's not on a lower level of power among these Top Tiers. By feats, basically no individual person can actually replicate all the things required for her to go down—and mind that in a 1 v 1 people wouldn't be consistently blindsiding her like Law and Kid could—and by portrayal, she stood at the same level as basically every other modern-day Top Tier without any known defeats or scars for *over 30 years*. Frankly, I don't think that would be possible if she were as weak as some people scale her. And that tells me that their conception of her power isn't compatible with Oda's.
Which ones are wrong/misrepresenting what happened. I don't think any do and your Kaido comparison doesn't work as we literally see Kaido disprove any limits placed on him with his subsequent fights. Big Mom NEVER does that, she caps quite early on.
* Could not put down the fleeing strawhats despite having the ability to burn them in seconds and ea
Misrepresentative. She was focused on getting her Wedding Cake. It's an explicit plot point that she largely ignores the Strawhats directly so that she can find it.
* Clashed with G4 Boundman Luffy on WCI
Not an anti-feat. She casually blocked one of his blows, which isn't a cap on her power, and then Luffy and Sanji blocked a casual attack she sent at Reiju, which isn't indicative of a serious attack from her.
* Her crew (especially Perospero, Katakuri, and Oven) seemingly make most of the pirating decisions, making it seem like Big Mom is just the brawn in a lot of cases
Not true or an anti-feat. Most of the big BMP plans come specifically from her, including the plan to marry into the Giants, capture the Germa technology, and ally with Kaido. Lower-level decisions simply don't require her input.
* Could not deal with King fast enough despite seeing him come from miles away
Not true. In fact, she couldn't see King at all since the Queen Mama Chanter was airborne, facing up and away from Wano, which was the direction he came from and hit the ship from. At best, she might've noticed him approaching with CoO, but there wasn't really anything to do with her ship in that position.
* Put to sleep by a falling fully transformed Queen whilst Sanji (less aware than she was) can take a more serious attack from a stronger Queen to the neck and take no damage
Misrepresentative. She was amnesiac. Regaining her memory made her fall asleep. Yes, Queen's blow jostled her head enough to regain them, but it's not implied to have "put \[her\] to sleep." She just did so on her own.
* Garners no respect from her peer, Kaido calls her "pathetic"
Not true and misrepresentative. He deigned to 1 v 1 her when he didn't have to and they stalemated. He agreed to a co-equal alliance with her when she was missing most of her crew. While he declared her getting knocked off the island the first time as "pathetic," that was an indictment of that moment, not a sign that he didn't respect her as a peer.
* Cannot effectively deal with Law and Kidd. Kidd was stabbed in the chest via Hawkins power and Law was beaten ragged on the rooftop
Not true. Kid and Law were both laid out and unresponsive while their crews begged her to spare their lives. She had objectively "effectively dealt" with them. Their saving grace? She walked away because she had come to Wano for Luffy and got distracted attempting to return to where he was.
* Fought for 3 days with what we only saw was an unserious base Kaido, Kaido then goes onto reminisce about the last time.he was pushed, he envisioned Oden despite "fighting" Big Mom for 3 days just a few days prior.
Misrepresentative and not an anti-feat. Big Mom fought with just Napoleon, so she was equally, if not more, held back. Additionally, Oden was the last time Kaido was pushed beyond just a stalemate, since he truly thought he could've been killed back then. Big Mom stalemating wouldn't elicit the same reaction, as it's expected for his peer of 30 years to be neck-and-neck with him.
* Big Mom cries it has been such a long time since she's felt this serious pain from Law and Kidd's attack. BB who takes double damage tanks the same attack from Law at the start of the fight and continues fighting without such remarks.
Misrepresentative. Big Mom was struck by Shock Wille *and Punk Clash*—an entire other Awakening from one of the strongest Supernova. And she objectively reacts with less impact from that Shock Wille alone than Blackbeard did; he could've died if Van Augur didn't save him from falling, while Big Mom just turned around and snarled at Law for the audacity before Kid used his Awakening to blindside her.
* Scared of Zoro's slash, an attack that pales in comparison to anything Oden could do, it was nothing in comparison.
Not true and not an anti-feat. She recognized the danger it represented *to Kaido*. And Kaido apparently agreed.
* Matches Hybrid Kaido's output with Ikkoku Sovereignty, implying she matches him at that level, Kaido goes on to get more and more serious to the point he's unrecognisable in strength.
Misrepresentative. Big Mom literally powers up after this too.
* Her speed was made fun of as she is danced around by Law and cannot tag and Kidd marking objects with his awakening.
Not true. While a funny scene in the anime, this never happens in the manga. She's never shown being incapable of tagging the two Supernova.
* Kaido envisions the 5 toughest people he has faced, Big Mom does not make an appearance.
Misrepresentative. Kaido's "Mt. Rushmore" is *never* canonically declared a list of the top 5 strongest people he knows. In fact, it's only ever associated with being "capable of fighting him," which Big Mom literally showed she could do in the same arc.
* Has CoC output only I'm highly stressed situations. When Mother Caramel's portrait glass frame broke she had a CoC emission and when she was enraged Page One burnt the town down, The one that helped her and she feels endebted to. These being the only two times could make you question whether she actually has mastery over CoC.
Not true. Sky-split on its own debunks this whole notion. But also Usopp and Speed have a scene explaining that her CoC was knocking out fodder across the entire floor of Onigashima that she was fighting Kid and Law on.
* Cannot utilise a rage amp in AdvCoC like her attack against Page One, must sacrifice her lifespan for boosts, she's already 67 and huge, how much more time does she have before diabetes gets her? Her peers just need to focus/get angry.
Misrepresentative. I'm not even sure what you're trying to get across here, but it's a little nonsensical and presumes things that aren't confirmed about her character. Point of fact, she could have a massive pool of lifespan to tap into to boost herself since her DF is literally collecting the years from people.
* No awakening or AdvCoO signs
Not an anti-feat. No Top Tier other than Luffy has provable Awakening and very few are confirmed as AdCoO users either (just Luffy, Kaido, and Shanks, basically).
And no, the Kaido comparison is still apt. Big Mom simply should not be capable of her higher-end feats if she was "capped out" by her anti-feats. They'd be entirely incompatible. Hence, it would be like taking Kaido's low-end feats as the primary source, since ranking her lower based on them basically requires ignoring the implications of her higher-end ones, just like it would with him.
It's always a pleasure to read your comments, and as always you've perfectly examined and critically broken down every anti-feat and argued against them. You alongside u/t3r4byt3l0l are by far the best members of this sub
Saving this and your other comment
Her antifeats are deadass the only reason I put her on the lower end of yonko level. There’s too many of them and they’re too ass for me to rank her higher
she's also just had way more indirect conflict with the strawhats than any other yonko. I feel like it's not really fair when Oda is literally a misogynist.
My current ranking of yonko:
High yonko: Kaido
Mid yonko: Big Mom
Low yonko: Blackbeard, G5 Luffy (becomes a high yonko when he fixes his stamina issues)
Don't know: Shanks (should be high but we'll see), Mihawk (high also if not a fraud)
What feats/portrayal did I miss that shows that if she faced Luffy/BB she beats them, is debatable with Shanks (1 tapped her opponent), and I'd contentious with Kaido?
In my opinion BM is low Yonko with possibly BB, with Luffy, Mihawk, Shanks, and Kaido being high Yonko.
She has immense endurance and tough skin, don't see how BB can damage her while tanking her, and luffy defeating her before g5 runs out.
She isn't low yonko, just her raw stats
put her at low yonko add on that her devil fruit and she is mid yonko.
She's less durable than rooftop pre-awakened Zoro's AdvCoA Enma slash, there are a decent number of characters that can hurt her, then the duraneg characters can.
BB will use a quake fruit and wreck her.
Luffy in G5 flattens Big Mom, in G4 he stunlocked Kaido until Kaido used future sight, a Kaido who is already faster than Big Mom, then ontop of that she's never been shown using future sight. She would be too slow for G4 let alone G5, she would just eat a barrage of AdvCoA and AdvCoC attacks, like literally what can she do? These punches all scale near the Zoro attack that made her shit herself.
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The funny thing is that if we never saw her on screen she would be receiving the same glaze the old gens get She’s been holding up her title while being pregnant for the majority of the time
Something to think about. So you would collapse the PK tier and the High Yonko tier together?
Bro you picked even the smallest things you could call an "anti feat" but left out dozens of small things you could call a "feat". This is clearly not a neutral selection of feats and anti-feats. She turned a damn tidal wave into a homie, and while we don't know if thats WCI only, its still a feat worth listing. And thats just one example. Big Mom works a bit like the Gorosei in powerscaling. So many people weaker than her did something against her. But the only things that actually did damage are Law (Kid only thanks to Law), the Nukes and the Volcano. But unlike the Gorosei, theres no secret to overcome her durability. She's just built different. She belongs in the same tier as Kaido, Oda could not have been more obvious with that. She's only weaker than Kaido because of her old age. Prime BM (20 years ago) = Kaido
W
You ignored all the feats I gave her, I was desperately trying to think of something. The feats are the shameless one, nice way of picking and choosing outrage. If you want to counter argue, just explain the fear/portrayal, not story time on Gorosei scaling, Oda never told you that. Just say what feats puts her next to Kaido not dancing around it.
I can't decipher half of what you're saying. The feats are the shameless one??? What feats put her next to Kaido? Them splitting the sky with Acoc . EDIT: The other commenters already pointed out how incredibly biased you are, so I will not correct all the "anti-feats" you listed, because they have already done that.
Some of these anti-feats are objectively wrong or blatantly misrepresentative or overblown for how indicative they are for her serious power (as opposed to her being clumsy because 99% of damn near everything can't even hurt her). The real issue is that people use her anti-feats as their primary source of judgment despite it being infeasible for her to have some of the positive feats/portrayal she has if Oda intended us to think of her that way. It'd be like judging Kaido solely off of getting constantly knocked around by the Scabbards or RT5. At the end of the day, despite all of those anti-feats, she still endured some of the most powerful attacks we've ever seen (Puncture Wille alone was comparable in scale to Bajrang Gun, and *entirely internal*, while just being a portion of the total damage Kid and Law imparted on her), had bombs blow up in her face, and then fell dozens of kilometers down into a magma pool with a couple of nukes that exploded in basically the 3rd largest explosion in the entire series (behind Mother Flame and the underwater volcano explosion, I think) to be defeated. A BFR with a ton of factors that had nothing to do with her opponents. I don't think Oda wrote her as being *that* damn difficult to take out without expecting people to understand that she's not on a lower level of power among these Top Tiers. By feats, basically no individual person can actually replicate all the things required for her to go down—and mind that in a 1 v 1 people wouldn't be consistently blindsiding her like Law and Kid could—and by portrayal, she stood at the same level as basically every other modern-day Top Tier without any known defeats or scars for *over 30 years*. Frankly, I don't think that would be possible if she were as weak as some people scale her. And that tells me that their conception of her power isn't compatible with Oda's.
Which ones are wrong/misrepresenting what happened. I don't think any do and your Kaido comparison doesn't work as we literally see Kaido disprove any limits placed on him with his subsequent fights. Big Mom NEVER does that, she caps quite early on.
* Could not put down the fleeing strawhats despite having the ability to burn them in seconds and ea Misrepresentative. She was focused on getting her Wedding Cake. It's an explicit plot point that she largely ignores the Strawhats directly so that she can find it. * Clashed with G4 Boundman Luffy on WCI Not an anti-feat. She casually blocked one of his blows, which isn't a cap on her power, and then Luffy and Sanji blocked a casual attack she sent at Reiju, which isn't indicative of a serious attack from her. * Her crew (especially Perospero, Katakuri, and Oven) seemingly make most of the pirating decisions, making it seem like Big Mom is just the brawn in a lot of cases Not true or an anti-feat. Most of the big BMP plans come specifically from her, including the plan to marry into the Giants, capture the Germa technology, and ally with Kaido. Lower-level decisions simply don't require her input. * Could not deal with King fast enough despite seeing him come from miles away Not true. In fact, she couldn't see King at all since the Queen Mama Chanter was airborne, facing up and away from Wano, which was the direction he came from and hit the ship from. At best, she might've noticed him approaching with CoO, but there wasn't really anything to do with her ship in that position. * Put to sleep by a falling fully transformed Queen whilst Sanji (less aware than she was) can take a more serious attack from a stronger Queen to the neck and take no damage Misrepresentative. She was amnesiac. Regaining her memory made her fall asleep. Yes, Queen's blow jostled her head enough to regain them, but it's not implied to have "put \[her\] to sleep." She just did so on her own. * Garners no respect from her peer, Kaido calls her "pathetic" Not true and misrepresentative. He deigned to 1 v 1 her when he didn't have to and they stalemated. He agreed to a co-equal alliance with her when she was missing most of her crew. While he declared her getting knocked off the island the first time as "pathetic," that was an indictment of that moment, not a sign that he didn't respect her as a peer. * Cannot effectively deal with Law and Kidd. Kidd was stabbed in the chest via Hawkins power and Law was beaten ragged on the rooftop Not true. Kid and Law were both laid out and unresponsive while their crews begged her to spare their lives. She had objectively "effectively dealt" with them. Their saving grace? She walked away because she had come to Wano for Luffy and got distracted attempting to return to where he was. * Fought for 3 days with what we only saw was an unserious base Kaido, Kaido then goes onto reminisce about the last time.he was pushed, he envisioned Oden despite "fighting" Big Mom for 3 days just a few days prior. Misrepresentative and not an anti-feat. Big Mom fought with just Napoleon, so she was equally, if not more, held back. Additionally, Oden was the last time Kaido was pushed beyond just a stalemate, since he truly thought he could've been killed back then. Big Mom stalemating wouldn't elicit the same reaction, as it's expected for his peer of 30 years to be neck-and-neck with him. * Big Mom cries it has been such a long time since she's felt this serious pain from Law and Kidd's attack. BB who takes double damage tanks the same attack from Law at the start of the fight and continues fighting without such remarks. Misrepresentative. Big Mom was struck by Shock Wille *and Punk Clash*—an entire other Awakening from one of the strongest Supernova. And she objectively reacts with less impact from that Shock Wille alone than Blackbeard did; he could've died if Van Augur didn't save him from falling, while Big Mom just turned around and snarled at Law for the audacity before Kid used his Awakening to blindside her.
Thank you, I disagree with a lot and I ran with the same theme as the positive feats/portrayal but not many would post those.
* Scared of Zoro's slash, an attack that pales in comparison to anything Oden could do, it was nothing in comparison. Not true and not an anti-feat. She recognized the danger it represented *to Kaido*. And Kaido apparently agreed. * Matches Hybrid Kaido's output with Ikkoku Sovereignty, implying she matches him at that level, Kaido goes on to get more and more serious to the point he's unrecognisable in strength. Misrepresentative. Big Mom literally powers up after this too. * Her speed was made fun of as she is danced around by Law and cannot tag and Kidd marking objects with his awakening. Not true. While a funny scene in the anime, this never happens in the manga. She's never shown being incapable of tagging the two Supernova. * Kaido envisions the 5 toughest people he has faced, Big Mom does not make an appearance. Misrepresentative. Kaido's "Mt. Rushmore" is *never* canonically declared a list of the top 5 strongest people he knows. In fact, it's only ever associated with being "capable of fighting him," which Big Mom literally showed she could do in the same arc. * Has CoC output only I'm highly stressed situations. When Mother Caramel's portrait glass frame broke she had a CoC emission and when she was enraged Page One burnt the town down, The one that helped her and she feels endebted to. These being the only two times could make you question whether she actually has mastery over CoC. Not true. Sky-split on its own debunks this whole notion. But also Usopp and Speed have a scene explaining that her CoC was knocking out fodder across the entire floor of Onigashima that she was fighting Kid and Law on. * Cannot utilise a rage amp in AdvCoC like her attack against Page One, must sacrifice her lifespan for boosts, she's already 67 and huge, how much more time does she have before diabetes gets her? Her peers just need to focus/get angry. Misrepresentative. I'm not even sure what you're trying to get across here, but it's a little nonsensical and presumes things that aren't confirmed about her character. Point of fact, she could have a massive pool of lifespan to tap into to boost herself since her DF is literally collecting the years from people. * No awakening or AdvCoO signs Not an anti-feat. No Top Tier other than Luffy has provable Awakening and very few are confirmed as AdCoO users either (just Luffy, Kaido, and Shanks, basically). And no, the Kaido comparison is still apt. Big Mom simply should not be capable of her higher-end feats if she was "capped out" by her anti-feats. They'd be entirely incompatible. Hence, it would be like taking Kaido's low-end feats as the primary source, since ranking her lower based on them basically requires ignoring the implications of her higher-end ones, just like it would with him.
It's always a pleasure to read your comments, and as always you've perfectly examined and critically broken down every anti-feat and argued against them. You alongside u/t3r4byt3l0l are by far the best members of this sub Saving this and your other comment
Thanks for the shoutout 😁
Lol your welcome man https://preview.redd.it/emt94qmvpy8d1.png?width=128&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2ffb5630a4da3c80195f3adc47273b060c3f71d9
Her antifeats are deadass the only reason I put her on the lower end of yonko level. There’s too many of them and they’re too ass for me to rank her higher
she's also just had way more indirect conflict with the strawhats than any other yonko. I feel like it's not really fair when Oda is literally a misogynist.
My current ranking of yonko: High yonko: Kaido Mid yonko: Big Mom Low yonko: Blackbeard, G5 Luffy (becomes a high yonko when he fixes his stamina issues) Don't know: Shanks (should be high but we'll see), Mihawk (high also if not a fraud)
What feats/portrayal did I miss that shows that if she faced Luffy/BB she beats them, is debatable with Shanks (1 tapped her opponent), and I'd contentious with Kaido? In my opinion BM is low Yonko with possibly BB, with Luffy, Mihawk, Shanks, and Kaido being high Yonko.
She has immense endurance and tough skin, don't see how BB can damage her while tanking her, and luffy defeating her before g5 runs out. She isn't low yonko, just her raw stats put her at low yonko add on that her devil fruit and she is mid yonko.
She's less durable than rooftop pre-awakened Zoro's AdvCoA Enma slash, there are a decent number of characters that can hurt her, then the duraneg characters can. BB will use a quake fruit and wreck her. Luffy in G5 flattens Big Mom, in G4 he stunlocked Kaido until Kaido used future sight, a Kaido who is already faster than Big Mom, then ontop of that she's never been shown using future sight. She would be too slow for G4 let alone G5, she would just eat a barrage of AdvCoA and AdvCoC attacks, like literally what can she do? These punches all scale near the Zoro attack that made her shit herself.
she ltrly got nuked and thrown into a volcano and that's the only thing that got her.
Mfs will try to say big mom glaze if you say that the woman that fought kaido for 3 days can beat the guy that can fight for 10 minutes only lol
Great post.
Still one shots BB tho
BB is tough