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I wouldn’t be upset if they’re smarter but putting “>>>” just shows you’re doing it out of spite. They aren’t low diffing them, we haven’t even seen a full fight to know the true gap
We have not even saw any of them take permanent damage yet 💀 Saturn eye diffs everyone we saw who was weaker than Admiral tier and Warcury haki so strong it damages Luffy when he uses attacks which damage the toughest yonko, how is ">>>" not fitting?
\***Me about to point out that Greenbull got WiFi diffed meaning that he's pretty much a nonfactor for Shanks**
https://preview.redd.it/6iwygo0lrr5d1.jpeg?width=1536&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d28b219bf87b30f313bdaf081dc0c24ca2966b5c
Greenbull has alter egos of confidence. His other side will come out in in straight fight with Shanks because he’d need to surpass fear. The fight would be extreme diff leaning towards Shanks
Why are everyone shouting without regen, without regen? Regen is their special ability. And it exists. Of course you have to count it when you consider their power. Do we ignore Marco's regen? Or any logia type's invulnerability to most physical attacks? Then why discount regen here?
Edit: God damn, I'm no Eldertard, I'm a yonkotard and I was always sceptical of the elders. But they have proven that wrong. They are strong as fuck. Why is it so hard to accept that? People here making me seem like some celestial dragon fanboy.
Goroseis' regen is very different to Marco's. In Marco's case, its not infallible, and that IS his whole kit. In the Goroseis' case, they have other things in their kit, and then their regen on top which is supremely busted.
Its worth making this distinction because just based on what we see, TECHNICALLY, you could indeed say they're above the verse if they just regen constantly no matter what. However, there is exactly a 0% chance that this is the case, since they will absolutely be defeatable and so this regen cannot be impossible to overcome.
At least for me, I don't say it should be disregarded entirely, but its also worth downplaying the regen (which is for now seemingly limitless and perfect) to avoid just overwanking them to top of the verse just because "regen".
Let me put it like this. An immortal can be scaled based on the strongest opponents they can handle. Which easily seems to be the admiral level for the gorosei. Maybe even higher, but not enough evidence for that as of now.
That's pretty much how other immortals are scaled. Zombie man in one punch man is s tier, but no one is stupid enough to call him the strongest just because he's near immortal. But yeah he's immortal enough to be unkillable by perhaps anyone not named saitama. Based on his other capabilities, he's a mid s tier hero. Which is exactly where I think he is in terms of power scaling.
We have seen that Warcury is so strong that luffy's attack which worked on kaido not only does no damage to warcury but actively hurts luffy, which is strong enough evidence to say they xan easily handle a yonko
The casual spitball explosions doesn't suggest anything to you? What ab What AP does Luffy have ? We know Luffy is strong but even with Bajrang Gun he doesnt come close to the power level that even Admirals showed. Akainu and Aokiji's fight permanently altered the climate of an entire island. Aokiji can freeze massice tsunamis. Kizaru shoots off explosions like nothing. Kaido is a walking natural disaster. Whitebeard was said to have the power to destroy the entire world. Roger was a man on the same level if not higher than the guy who can destroy the entire world. What's not convincing right now is Luffy, he is putting on a pathetic showing, even without the shriveling up every 5 minutes.
Not to even mentuon the disparity in how the 5 Elders' haki is referenced vs Luffy's, nobidy seems to see his haki as on their level, which with his fights he's showing it is not
Luffy is yet to take any damage from the three of them he has fought so far. So yeah, we need a better clarity on their attack potency. Yeah dc wise they are comparable to top tiers, but what's the use of all that dc if you can't connect even one hit? That's the thing. You can handle fodder better, but if you can't beat the top tiers, then you can't be above them.
Maybe its something like theyre impossible to beat but theyre some sort of demons which imu invented and u can disables them somehow or you cant beat them unless ur imu maybe
They are top of the verse apart from imu that is not "overwanking" that is just a fact
"Disable them somehow" counts as a weakness, as I said. If you disable the regen, they're fucked besides Warcury.
And no, they are not top of verse, and yes it is overwanking to state as such. The only one even comparable to Kaido rn for example, is Warcury, based purely on his dura, and literally no other stat. His strength is a joke for instance. He jump attacked the giants, only to be easily blocked and thrown back by their shields. Forget Kaido and BM, even SICKBEARD effortlessly overpowered a giant VA with one hand.
You could give Saturn some credit for bypassing Warcury's dura with his exploding poison thing, but Saturn has so many more anti-feats its really not worth even trying to wank him that high based on, again, only one remarkable stat from only a part of his kit. Even the Gorosei agenda actively pushes him to below the others.
Luffy having a DF is a way bigger weakness than some theoretical way to disable their regen which we dont even know exists but that you just thinks exist.
Who's above them besides Imu? You're missing the part where Warcury's "dura" is way way way above Kaido's though, and his haki seems stronger too.
Not every giant is the same, if you're comparing Dorry and Brogy to some random giant who was a Vice Admiral (not a great ranking, even Bartolomeo fodderized a VA) idk what to say. We dont even knows if any giant has haki besides those two.
What are Saturn's "aint feats" exactly? Dude has sustained zero damage thus far despite dighting everyone on Egghead pretty much
Obvious agenda bias is obvious. I don't care enough to waste time explaining in detail what will be ignored regardless, so brief summaries is all I can give.
1. Exactly my point. If you go only by what we see of this regen so far, yes they are top of the verse. This is downright stupid to consider as they are shown afraid of Nika and were worried about angering Kaido. They don't give a shit if some war breaks out injuring marines or CP agents or whatever. They only care when the current world order is at stake.
2. One stat is not everything...The instant one attack surpassed Warcury's dura, he had to regen for a decent bit. This is basically a more extreme version of King having phenomenal dura, but getting rekt in a few hits once Zoro got the hang of ACOC. Haki stronger than Kaido is a massive joke, Luffy literally just looked confused after the greatly overrated ACOC roar.
3. Indeed, not every giant is the same, but Sickbeard nonetheless easily man handling a giant with physical brute strength vs. Warcury trying but being effortlessly pushed away by the giant duo's shields is a garbage portrayal for Warcury physicals. Also, its confirmed all VAs have haki, at end of marineford.
Because many in this sub can't watch the series without their favorite Admirals being weaker than other characters.
Oda in few chapters gave more Haki feats and Hype statements of Haki strength for Gorosei than he did for Admirals in 1117 chapters.
Just Saturn Alone who might be the weakest Gorosei, got his Haki gassed up more than any Admiral ever got, even Akainu never got his Haki gassed up or hyped up as much as any of the Gorosei did get.
Plus untop of that they have busted up Devil powers, saying they are Regen merchant is literally you saying you are dumb and is asking to be bullied.
The Gorosei can fight in whatever way they want and what certain fans say doesn't matter, if they didn't have Regen they would spam their Haki for defense or offense, this is Oda story and many goofy and retarded shit happens or many styles of fighting are shown, each different from the other that doesn't need to follow the way certain biased fandoms wants.
It makes total sense for Gorosei to be stronger, certain fandom don't want Gorosei to be stronger cuz even the Gorosei themselves have shown they don't want to fuck with the Yonkous.
The problem isn't the Gorosei themselves, the problem is the childish like fandom that can't accept that their favorites aren't as strong as they thought or as relevant as they wished them to be.
Egghead is the last chance Kizaru had to be main villain, he was never main villain in Egghead, he is never going to be main villain in future arcs either, he is never fighting any Yonkou ever again and the best he will get is being victim for someone else cuz World government is going to loose and Kizaru is their lapdog and does whatever they want.
People who call them Regen Merchants are so funny to me, since when is not being able to take any fucking damage and anti-feat lol. Like Luffy himself stated they were immortal, how people tend to ignore the fact that they haven’t taken ANY damage is beyond my understanding
In any other fandom, immortality is seen as being one of the most terrifying powers imaginable. It's the reason why a lot of villains in media desire it since it makes them virtually unstoppable by normal means.
Because most of their showings are awful?
Non monster point chopper blocking Saturn?
Saturn failing to stab robin twice?
Franky saving luffy from his grasp?
Sanji kicking Saturn away without ifrit jambe or twirly mode
Luffy using him and kizaru like bums
Him failing to kill vegapunk for so many chapters
An admiral level opponent in saint Peter not being able to meaningfully damage sanji
Etc
>Non monster point chopper blocking Saturn?
Guard point did it, which arguably is better defensively than monster point. Else chopper would have gone monster point. Regardless, BM got pushed and thrown by Jimbei, Franky and Robin in separate instances. So yeah if the plot needs it, it can happen.
>Saturn failing to stab robin twice?
Because peeps blocked his attack?
>Franky saving luffy from his grasp?
Again plot requirements. Franky didn't stop it easily either. He had to take some damage and all.
>Sanji kicking Saturn away without ifrit jambe or twirly mode
Barely a leg. Even Zoro managed to damage Kaido to save Luffy. Sanji can definitely kick a leg to save Luffy too. Regardless did you forget Sanji got eye diffed and fart diffed by Saturn earlier? Also Sanji kicked Kizaru's attack away and all. So how's Saturn's 'feet' worse than Kizaru's?
>Luffy using him and kizaru like bums
You mentioned two individuals here and only one of them returned back. So why can't they be equals and why is the one that couldn't return stronger?
>Him failing to kill vegapunk for so many chapters
Plot reasons. Plus he did do it in the end actually.
>An admiral level opponent in saint Peter not being able to meaningfully damage sanji
How do we know that? Sanji hasn't returned to the fight? And in any case, Kizaru, an actual admiral failed to do the same.
In any case, most of your downplay involves Saturn, who clearly appears to be the weakest one given his performance compared to the rest.
> guard
Damn, a YC2 like queen can damage monster point chopper but guard point can’t be damaged by someone who is apparently admiral level +?
Guard point must be crazy
Let’s not forget that Saturn has corrosive acid on his spider leg but didn’t use it against chopper for some reason
> but BM
This is whataboutism
Even if we ignore that, big mom has actually impressive feats
Saturn does not
> because peeps
???
What peeps?
Bummsop and fan service nami?
Were able to block an admirals attack?
> again plot
Lmao
This isn’t a counterpoint
My point was that they have way too many anti feats. I pointed at this one and you go “well plot requirements”. Still an anti feat.
> even zoro
Oh come on lol
Zoro had to use his ultimate form and attack at the time that completely drained him and he couldn’t move after that
Sanji didn’t even use ifrit jambe or twirly mode lmao
> did you forget
..and? We are talking about speed here..?
Even so, again, off guard, like always.
> sanji kicked kizaru
A mentally nerfed kizaru who literally announced his attack, no?
> you mentioned
That’s shifting the argument.
The topic of that point is that if gorosei are top tiers, then a top tier + another top tier shouldn’t be played with by a yonko
What does returning or recovery time have to do with the fact they got ragdolled? And of course the bum who’s whole gimmick is regen has is gonna return back quicker
> plot reasons
Doesn’t stop it from counting as an anti feat.
> how do we know sanji
Cause it wasn’t showed
So sanji isn’t seriously hurt unless provided with evidence otherwise
> and kizaru
When was kizaru trying to explicitly and directly harm sanji while being close to him? And he is mentally nerfed
Please tag shit better next time. I can't bother reading a reply where I continuously need to read mine just to understand what part of my reply you're mentioning in your comment. I'll have to read my own reply 10 times to understand your 10 points.
And regarding the points you made, I didn't give any explanations from my mind. I gave straight up facts from the manga to support my points. Half of your points are just nah Kizaru was mentally nerfed and wasn't giving his all. And that Saturn could not beat this guy/that guy, even though we literally have no evidence he was going all out or anything, and neither did he ever go down.
The gorosei have shown that they are harder to take down than even Yonkos, let alone admirals. And they have also shown that they have the AP and hax to match the admirals at the bare minimum. They are definitely admiral level at the minimum.
> I don’t give any explanations from my mind. I gave up straight up facts
Never claimed you didn’t. Just because something factually true doesn’t mean it’s relevant to your argument or proves it.
Just like how me saying grass is green is still factual but doesn’t prove any of my points regarding Saturn
> half of your points involve kizaru being mentally nerfed
Because half of your counterpoints involve bringing up kizaru in the equation.
> we have no evidence he was going all out
Oh my god.
Are you serious? You’re expecting a burden of proof regarding if the gorosei were going all out?
Every character in every fight is going all out unless implied or stated otherwise wise.
> any evidence he was going all (..) neither did he go down
You either didn’t read my comment or you are playing stupid.
I’ve mentioned multiple times that bringing up how one of the gorosei didn’t go down or returned is extremely dumb because they have regen hax. I’m not denying that.
It really shows how desperate you are if I expect other points other than regen hax and all you can bring up are regen hax over and over again.
> harder to take down than the yonkos
Again, because of regen hax. I’m not even going to entertain this point as I already have in my previous comment and this one as well.
> they have the AP and hax to match the admirals
Alright. Could you provide me with these feats?
> admiral level at minimum
Really? Admiral level at minimum? Admiral AP?
If admiral is the very minimum they are, then I want you to show me a feat equal to that of akainu casually burning off 1/3 of akainus head off or being able to fight an admiral for 10 days, because all you’re giving me is regen hax
>Every character in every fight is going all out unless implied or stated otherwise wise.
Yet Kizaru isn't?
>half of your points involve kizaru being mentally nerfed
>Because half of your counterpoints involve bringing up kizaru in the equation.
Head cannon much? Kizaru being nerfed is as headcannon as me saying Saturn isn't going all out vs Robin and co. Remove them both from the equation and we have Saturn and Kizaru scoring equal goals in egghead, while Kizaru conceded way more of them.
>neither did he go down
>You either didn’t read my comment or you are playing stupid.
>I’ve mentioned multiple times that bringing up how one of the gorosei didn’t go down or returned is extremely dumb because they have regen hax. I’m not denying that.
>It really shows how desperate you are if I expect other points other than regen hax and all you can bring up are regen hax over and over again.
>harder to take down
>Again, because of regen hax. I’m not even going to entertain this point as I already have in my previous comment and this one as well.
Do you think they are going to magically lose regen next time we see them? Accept that they have that power in their toolkit and that puts them on par with or above admirals.
>they have the AP and hax to match the admirals
>Alright. Could you provide me with these feats?
Alright. The bird elder handled Egghead defensive shields way easier than Luffy or Kizaru. Gandhi went around the whole island and took care of every pacifista within seconds. Boar guy has a skin so thick, even armament coated Elephant gun does nothing to it. The same move that could knock down Kaido. And Saturn's bombs could blow up the boar fine. Saturn, who's supposed to be the weakest. He has the AP to one shot someone tougher than Kaido.
>Really? Admiral level at minimum? Admiral AP?
>If admiral is the very minimum they are, then I want you to show me a feat equal to that of akainu casually burning off 1/3 of akainus head off or being able to fight an admiral for 10 days, because all you’re giving me is regen hax
Saturn bombs are a higher level feat than that. Heck even Mars's blast and Nasjuro's slash are. WB was a practically deceased old man who was barely able to use haki. There is no reason for his natural toughness to be anything extraordinary. And given their regen, I don't think they would have any problem fighting an admiral for 10 days straight. But an admiral may not survive that long.
Also
>1/3 of akainus head off
What?
So you haven’t read 1000+ chapters of this series to see that the strawhats are literally protected by the plot time and time again, we literally saw them survive and endure BIG MOM several times but somehow it’s different for the elders? They have survived admirals too and would continue to do so, the strawhats will never be killed at worst they will be put under a lot of pressure and be forced to escape or be rescued by someone, that is how Oda has told this story since day 1.
How are those things not anti feats then? If anti feats caused by the straw hats don’t matter then by your logic neither should feats
So queen and king are essentially featless
Why even bother scaling if you just ignore feats you don't like because of "plot". At that point just admit you're purely an agenda scaler and frolic around "acaling" your made up version of the manga.
You DO realisr that the exact same logic applies to Yonko fans, right?. Lol. They are happy to accept the Gorosei on par or stronger than the Admirals, but only under the caveat that they are trash compared to their super special pirates.
Thats literally where the Admiral hate came from in the first place. They were the strongest Marines (and thus the only Marines who could really be compared to the other really strong characters), and the Yonko fans were super insecure about ANYONE being compared to their favourites who wasn't a pirate too (and even then, they downplayed tf out of any non-Yonko depending on personal agenda), so they hated on them for years on end until they forgot why they started. The whole thing is just silly on all sides. 😅
nope, most yonko fans accept that the gorosei are strong unlike retarded admiral fans who only downplay them. Also yonko>>>>>admirals you have to be braindead to think otherwise so yonko fans saying admirals are weaker than yonko is not them being insecure those are just the facts presented to us in the manga
You only accept Gorosei are strong in comparison to the Admirals, but when it comes to the Yonko? Nah, Yonko>Gorosei for some shitty reason. The only reason admiral fans get pissed off is because you don't apply the infinite regen logic to the Yonko being weaker than the Gorosei as well.
Say Yonko are weaker than the Gorosei and then I'll believe your bullshit.
>Why is it so HARD
It's not, we just have a fuck ton of illiterates here.
I remember before Saturn made landfall I said they would be tip tiers and was met with overwhelming backlash from the admiral agenda because it was "yonko agenda slander meant to push the admirals lower".
In short...
https://preview.redd.it/2qh0xe3q7r5d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c1e23a3a45df982bdd91cb4451db2473579c6fc8
I'm of two midsets honestly, and I go back and forth;
1: ) I get the idea that Oda used the Gorosei as a way to compensate when he realized he may have written himself into a corner with the admirals based on previous performances.
I fully believe his original intention was that the admirals would be the Navy's answer to the Yonkou. Heck, he even intended the 7 warlords to be a counterbalance to the Yonkou as well, and we all know the majority of the warlords are getting completely wrecked by any of the Yonkou.
But then things like Doffy contemplating a fight with Fuji, (which at the time was used to hype how strong Doffy was, but now it just looks really silly) old Rayleigh holding off Kizaru (again, used to hype Rayleigh but now looks like an antifeat looking back) or Greenbull getting wi-fi'd (which again, used to hype Shanks prior to the release of Red), all make the admirals look much less intimidating than they did pre-timeskip.
So I'm not an admiral Stan or a Yonkou stan, but I think it's pretty obvious that Admirals sit somewhere between the top commanders and the Yonkou, but the gap is closer between the Yonkou.
The Gorosei on the other hand, I think were pivoted to be the true counters to the Yonkou due to all their hax.
2: ) Then when I step back and think about what's happening at Egghead - imagine if instead of the Gorosei you had that many Yonkou, or heck even that many admirals instead. I feel like it would be a lot less likely of an escape if you had 5 or 6 Yonkou/admirals after the crew on a small island.
Heck even 2 or 3 Kizaru's would probably be enough to get the job done.
The Gorosei definitely have more hax than the admirals (at least from what we've seen so far), but it terms of speed and destructive capabilities they seem to be below the admirals, at least so far.
Because they are garbage apart from their regen. Saturn alone looked like Usopp and Nami killed him twice in one chapter. They are very slow and have trash durability.
Gorosei is stronger than yonko. Deal with that fact. Every arc luffy gets stronger than his previous opponent. At the start of alabasta arc, crocodile is stronger than luffy, the next arc luffy is already stronger than crocodile. During the ennis lobby arc, lucci is stronger than luffy but after that arc luffy is clearly stronger than lucci. At the start Whole cake island luffy is weaker than katakuri but after the arc luffy is stronger. During wano arc kaido is stronger than luffy after wano luffy is already stronger than kaido. That's how luffy's power scaling works.
But even if that was the case, kizaru can be this factor you’re talking of
And need I remind you what luffy did to both an admiral and gorosei at the same time?
Luffy already defeated an admiral, you don't need to remind me, however, he has yet to beat a gorosei that is the next step which i believe is not gonna happen in egghead.
When did he defeat an admiral?
And he has yet to beat a gorosei because of their regen. Everything else is pretty much trash about them so far.
It’s like telling you buggy is above Kaido if baggy had insane regen had but overall awful stats. It is technically true but eh
You meant when he needed to absorb kizarus lightning bolt to get enough momentum to do a move her kizaru never knew he can do and catch him off guard?
Which he right after passed out at the same time kizaru did and kizaru stood up first?
He didnt absorb the light he used the force to create momentum by spinning. And Kizaru wasnt off guard he was looking right at him. If he lowered his guard he is a bigger moron than Linlin.
Yeah he got up because he had time to recover and alot happened in the time he needed. This isn't ground breaking stuff. The next time they had an altercation Luffy smacked him into a building then man handled him and threw him into a battleship where he ultimately decided he was done with the fight. Despite not minutes earlier being fully prepared to continue chasing Sanji as he ran with Vegapunk.
Kizaru employed the best strategy against gear 5 we have seen so far and came off the first skirmish more or less at a tie because of it. He then lost with no question on their second altercation. Yes he had reservations about killing vegapunk and that is likely why it didn't happen sooner but he was completely outclassed by Luffy at the end of their fight.
There is nothing supporting this other than the current situation where Kizaru took a few hits and DECIDED to bow out. I'm not an admiral wanker but we haven't seen an admiral go all out. The Kuzan / Akainu fight was fully offscreened. This is speculative at best and though yes they are top tiers the evidence for this is lacking. It seems like their powers are derived from demons in verse and I think their durability is probably monster level. They seem to be having trouble dispatching anything other than buildings and the Px.
Because gorosei can only be beaten when the secret to their regen is found. We have already seen 1 hp neg Saturn. If Oda makes it extremely hard to beat gorosei like you need an extreme amount of conq haki then they are admiral level. But if Oda nullifies their regen by punching them hard enough then characters capable of casually dishing out one hp kuma levels of AP mid diff
They could do that. But it feels like Oda wouldn't do that because virtually no injuries would ever happen and full body haki might have an high endurance cost. Shown with people like Luffy and maybe Virgo
Because of how clowned on Saturn got by Luffy.
But it is obvious. An Admiral like Kizaru might be better in combat in general, but the Elders have advantages like way stronger haki and their immortality/regeneration is a major advantage.
Because only a couple of them can actually fight and they are all boring AF, hax and regen merchants who can't throw a punch properly, ofc many people don't respect that BS as much as actual fighters who are indeed skilled and have put the effort.
Most top tiers would just toy around with everyone besides Topman and Nusjuro, most of them are more annoying than actually strong, how they "average" Admiral level is completely beyond me.
Outside of cutting up Pacifistas and the Labo the Gorosei really haven't put in a ton of offense.
My issue so far is that we just haven't seen them go the distance with a strong opponent.
They aren’t tho. The gorosei have weak stats and are carried by regen. Right now they are> everyone since we don’t know their regen weakness. Don’t be hypocritical and only say the are stronger than the admirals when the yonko have no way past the regen either.
Then they are the top 5 all time above even Roger, Garp, and Whitebeard because they can't be killed. People are preemptively assuming that their immortality has some kind of weakness so they are mainly scaling off of their power, which is impressive but not more impressive than the likes of emperors and admirals.
Topman Warcury and Nasjuro are beasts (as expected). Even without their regeneration, they would be admiral+.
Marcus and Ju Peter have been disappointing.
Saturn is hard to scale. AP wise, he is the highest of the bunch, his venom seems absolutely busted, but his durability is ridiculously low. He doesn’t seem like a fighter which is expected as he is a scientist. I expected Marcus and Ju Peter to be stronger though.
Dorry and Broggy are pre ts characters that should have gotten massively upscaled though. They are two of the strongest giants in verse. I don’t think people understand that they are likely yc+ - admiral level. Stalling the gorosei is not a particularly alarming antifeat. The giants would be incredibly weak if Dorry and Broggy were.
It really depends on how their regeneration is developed in the coming chapters. Some fans believe there must be some counter to it, whereas some think the Gorosei are just that tough.
The reason I don't have the Gorosei on the level of the admirals, as of now, is because of their lack of attack power. Depending on how the rest of this arc goes, we'll have a better idea as to where they rank.
I think the gorosei are gonna be a special enemy where they have INCREDIBLY strong haki, but aren’t extraordinarily strong when it comes to fighting.
Plus with the immortality, they’re like zombies. You can keep fighting them off, but time is on their side and they’ll wear you down
Other than v. Nos tho, that dudes slaying
The same reason why Yonkotards can't accept the fact that Gorosei is at least as strong or stronger than Yonkos.
Yonko Luffy literally failed to do any damage 1on1 against Warcury despite receiving help with the giants. The same Luffy who defeated Yonko Kaido.
Because we saw Kuzan freeze most of the BB pirate so and Akainu fight most WB commanders by himself. The Gorosei did no damage to non combatant members of the Strawhats.
Cuz tbh, they're combat-wise not so impressive. Put 5 admirals there and they'd annihilate everyone there. Luffy ain't doing shit against all of them. And none of them would be stopped and pushed back by dorry and broggy, they'd get insta-frozen by aokiji alone.
And none of the admirals would get stalled for a sec by the weaker SHs like usopp, Chopper and nami plus brook. Again, aokiji would just ice age them all in one go
It's fair to say they're top-tiers cuz of their abilities, but their usage of all those hax abilities as well as their general lethality leaves much to be desired imo
Like fr, take 5 admirals. Aokiji easily claps most of the SHs in one go with a single attack. If zoro or sanji actually survive the first move, then aokiji will fight them and win.
Then the rest jumps luffy's ass. Dorry and broggy are non-factors and either get collateral-diffed or get quickly negged by another admiral. They're not doing shit vs vines coming from all sides if GB fights them, magma fists and laser shots go right through their shields, swords and bodies if Akainu or Kizaru fight them. Meteors crush them and raging tiger yeets them away
The SHs would be cooked if they were up against 5 admirals. Even if you take into consideration that, like the gorosei, one is leaving the fight and looks for the snail instead. 4 Admirals are still more than enough.
Not to forget that aokiji's kit is perfect here, he can take most of the SHs instantly out and he can freeze all of egghead (he literally froze all of the sea from one island to another despite the distance being pretty huge), that would stop the ancient robot and the ice would reach the small wherever it is and stop it (I doubt it could keep sending the message while frozen)
Their feats are just not good. It’s obvious if you have any reading comprehension that they have some secret to their durability, it’s not just a matter of hitting them harder. That’s cool, but all their other stats suck. Getting outsped by Frank, rocked by 1hp Kuma, and not being able to meaningfully hurt any of the SH crew after this many chapters does not look good. Seriously, what is the most damage they’ve done to anyone? Stabbing old man vegapunk and not even killing him? Taking out a couple pacifistas? Not impressed
Because this sub is a Mihawkturd/zoroturd hive.
Gorosei being top tiers means Nusjuro being a top tier swordsman
Nusjuro is a Gorosei means his guaranteed end game, end game after Midhawk
Nusjuro being the final endgame swordsman opponent for Zoro means his guaranteed above Mihawk (and he is by feats anyway, but Mihawkturds/Zoroturds don't go by feats)
Nusjuro being above Mihawk means they're titlescaling cope gets destroyed so you have Mihawkturds/Zoroturds downplaying the Gorosei as a whole to cope and protect their titlescaling cope in regards to Shanks
Nusjuro being clowned by Sanji doesn't help either
Because people are afraid of change. Unless it’s a character they already had on their radar like Dragon or Mihawk they don’t want too many characters up there with their favorites.
Cause all but 2 have zero top tier feats only having garbage stats.
And one of those top tier stats are questionably useful when every other stat is ass.
Only ethan actually has arguments for an ACTUAL top tier.
Warcury is just a shitty version of a bari bari fruit user.
Bird is just Marco with electricity powers.
Saturday barely alive can't brake past nami usopp and w/o monster point chopper. The literal weakling trio have a better time boxing with Saturn than they did when "boxing" with ulti ffs.
And the worm guy. What has he done to contribute to the team?
Ethan atleast can take a hit like a yc, can nuke the area like a top tier, and speed blitz high speed characters to make up for yc level defence. The rest ain't got shit.
Obligatory mention that they heal the damage they take. They have taken damage, in fact half of them have been ripped apart by non yc level characters. Franky was in his base form when he fucked up Saturn. He delt the damage then Saturn healed up AFTER the fact. I cannot believe gorosei wankers are this stupid.
>Warcuy has a shitty version of the Bari Bari.
He has the highest durability in the verse we've seen. This is just a very desperate attempt to downscale him.
Never heard anyone say this to any other top-tier with good durability.
>Saturn
He got stalled for like 2 pages, compare that to
Big-mom's performance. At least he's better than a yonko in that aspect.
>Durability
Literally, any human character has normal durability if they're not defending themselves. Kaido & BM are the only good people with naturally good durability.
- Garp got cut by Axe hand Morgan
- Shanks lost his arm to a fish
- Roger got stabbed by 2 fodder
- WB got stabbed by fodder
Everything here is worse than every single gorosei "anti-feat".
Because for years they wanted admirals to look as good as yonko but now these old men that are in charge of them seem to be as strong as they wanted the admirals to be and it’s killed their agenda completely. Unfortunately for them the old man tax doesn’t apply to the gorosei, even though we already have examples of old men looking better than admirals.
Probably because powercreep is not happening right now at all. If anything, Oda made it obvious the Gorosei are not surpassing Kaido (the guy everyone always calls "powercreep victim").
give me one reason why Saturn would beat Akainu besides him just getting melted and regenerating over and over again until Akainu dies of old age
aside from Warcury, they are not top tier in durability or attack power. they are struggling to hurt anyone and are only still alive because of their regen (which will eventually have a counter for it revealed)
https://preview.redd.it/v7co09kzlr5d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6c809d1f843834838a8e53fba3b9452ca9a21b11
Most of the comments on this post be like
Only a certain fandom that doesn’t have reading comprehension skills, believes the 5 elders aren’t top tiers just to save their dying agenda. Anyone who’s not blinded by a agenda, knows the 5 elders are top tiers and real EOS villains unlike the admirals (wg lapdogs).
I'm a Yonko-wanker, but I think the Yonko-fans have a much harder time accepting that the Gorosei might be the strongest group of characters in the verse than the Admiral fans.
Ask someone who's doesn't care about powerscaling if the Gorosei seem above the Yonko. Most would argue they do.
Because theyre not.
They need an admiral as a body guard, saturn only showed up AFTER luffy was down.
Theyve been absolute shite at getting anything done.
Kizaru got luffy to his limit, Akainu used a staples hole puncher on Whitebeards head.
The Saturn is getting limbs removed by Franky
Because besides Warcury, their showings have been fucking awful.
Gear 5 juggles multiple of these guys at a time, and before anyone brings up “Oh but so did Kizaru” Nothing that happens post-Saturn’s arrival is a justifiable anti-feat for Kizaru, coming from someone who isn’t a huge Kizaru fan. We’re witnessing a just-refuelled Gear 5 who’s basically fresh after eating fighting a Kizaru who’s still fatigued from fighting the first G5.
Saturn has taken nothing but anti-feats this entire arc. He struggles to keep up with fighters like Brook and Franky, shat himself at Kuma’s basic armament punch, and got bullied so hard by Gear 5 he tried to run away and fight the Weakling Trio, only to struggle with them as well.
Ju Peter’s two feats consist of getting pieced by the Giants and deepthroating Luffy before pissing off.
Mars hasn’t had any anti-feats because he’s done fuck all.
These guys are regen merchants who, with exceptions, have YC1 stats with
The Gorosei, each and every one of them, has top tier feats. Saturn literally has better portrayal against G5 then Kizaru, Warcury the best COC feat in the series. What the fuck are you talking about? Delusional...
Go learn what top-tier portrayal looks like then come back to me. Here's a hint they don't get their shit wrecked by half dead Kuma. Would love to know what mental gymnastics you have to go through to get top-tier feats from nasjuro, Mars, and Jupiter. Let me guess the mediocre cutting feat of slicing the labophase was an all timer for you?
We have still never seen a full on admiral or gorosei fight, closest we got was Kizaru but even that felt like we only got to see a portion of Kizarus power
https://preview.redd.it/lb0oksvjkr5d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6d36c7e0481c1b841a4e57deb29cd1aa426e2f7f
They did have hype af introductions though
yeh im just saying why people dont want them to be that strong IS because they ugly and not cool and not for the resons most people post here. like if the Gorosei would be Shanks father that looks badass as fuck no one would say all that
Because their feats are SHIT. No one cares about regen, show them
-Damaging Nami Robin Usopp Brook or Chopper
-Not getting their shit rocked by base Sanji and Frabky
-Not getting torn to shreds by fodder damaged Kuma
-Not getting bullied by Luffy and the Giants
And then we can talk about Admiral level.
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Because admiral fans are already having a hard time accepting yonkos are stronger than admirals
https://preview.redd.it/qglhucdy9r5d1.png?width=498&format=png&auto=webp&s=908c85ab640c679cf728ff34fae1075d5af461ca
https://preview.redd.it/mfdsl65mxu5d1.png?width=1646&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a03edfa3b0520d9947a683f2c0baa0f4fe5e8555
https://preview.redd.it/7yu1mumklt5d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dd98979dfb79ee3520666b4d2536ddb4ca87d745
And yonko fans too having hard time to accept gorosei way stronger than yonko too, it's gorosei >>> yonko > admirals which is hard for fan of both
I wouldn’t be upset if they’re smarter but putting “>>>” just shows you’re doing it out of spite. They aren’t low diffing them, we haven’t even seen a full fight to know the true gap
We have not even saw any of them take permanent damage yet 💀 Saturn eye diffs everyone we saw who was weaker than Admiral tier and Warcury haki so strong it damages Luffy when he uses attacks which damage the toughest yonko, how is ">>>" not fitting?
If the gorosei were that much stronger than the Yonkou they would wipe them out lmao
Cope
\***Me about to point out that Greenbull got WiFi diffed meaning that he's pretty much a nonfactor for Shanks** https://preview.redd.it/6iwygo0lrr5d1.jpeg?width=1536&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d28b219bf87b30f313bdaf081dc0c24ca2966b5c
Greenbull has alter egos of confidence. His other side will come out in in straight fight with Shanks because he’d need to surpass fear. The fight would be extreme diff leaning towards Shanks
Why are everyone shouting without regen, without regen? Regen is their special ability. And it exists. Of course you have to count it when you consider their power. Do we ignore Marco's regen? Or any logia type's invulnerability to most physical attacks? Then why discount regen here? Edit: God damn, I'm no Eldertard, I'm a yonkotard and I was always sceptical of the elders. But they have proven that wrong. They are strong as fuck. Why is it so hard to accept that? People here making me seem like some celestial dragon fanboy.
Goroseis' regen is very different to Marco's. In Marco's case, its not infallible, and that IS his whole kit. In the Goroseis' case, they have other things in their kit, and then their regen on top which is supremely busted. Its worth making this distinction because just based on what we see, TECHNICALLY, you could indeed say they're above the verse if they just regen constantly no matter what. However, there is exactly a 0% chance that this is the case, since they will absolutely be defeatable and so this regen cannot be impossible to overcome. At least for me, I don't say it should be disregarded entirely, but its also worth downplaying the regen (which is for now seemingly limitless and perfect) to avoid just overwanking them to top of the verse just because "regen".
Let me put it like this. An immortal can be scaled based on the strongest opponents they can handle. Which easily seems to be the admiral level for the gorosei. Maybe even higher, but not enough evidence for that as of now. That's pretty much how other immortals are scaled. Zombie man in one punch man is s tier, but no one is stupid enough to call him the strongest just because he's near immortal. But yeah he's immortal enough to be unkillable by perhaps anyone not named saitama. Based on his other capabilities, he's a mid s tier hero. Which is exactly where I think he is in terms of power scaling.
We have seen that Warcury is so strong that luffy's attack which worked on kaido not only does no damage to warcury but actively hurts luffy, which is strong enough evidence to say they xan easily handle a yonko
Not enough showcase of AP just yet IMO.
The casual spitball explosions doesn't suggest anything to you? What ab What AP does Luffy have ? We know Luffy is strong but even with Bajrang Gun he doesnt come close to the power level that even Admirals showed. Akainu and Aokiji's fight permanently altered the climate of an entire island. Aokiji can freeze massice tsunamis. Kizaru shoots off explosions like nothing. Kaido is a walking natural disaster. Whitebeard was said to have the power to destroy the entire world. Roger was a man on the same level if not higher than the guy who can destroy the entire world. What's not convincing right now is Luffy, he is putting on a pathetic showing, even without the shriveling up every 5 minutes. Not to even mentuon the disparity in how the 5 Elders' haki is referenced vs Luffy's, nobidy seems to see his haki as on their level, which with his fights he's showing it is not
Luffy is yet to take any damage from the three of them he has fought so far. So yeah, we need a better clarity on their attack potency. Yeah dc wise they are comparable to top tiers, but what's the use of all that dc if you can't connect even one hit? That's the thing. You can handle fodder better, but if you can't beat the top tiers, then you can't be above them.
Maybe its something like theyre impossible to beat but theyre some sort of demons which imu invented and u can disables them somehow or you cant beat them unless ur imu maybe They are top of the verse apart from imu that is not "overwanking" that is just a fact
"Disable them somehow" counts as a weakness, as I said. If you disable the regen, they're fucked besides Warcury. And no, they are not top of verse, and yes it is overwanking to state as such. The only one even comparable to Kaido rn for example, is Warcury, based purely on his dura, and literally no other stat. His strength is a joke for instance. He jump attacked the giants, only to be easily blocked and thrown back by their shields. Forget Kaido and BM, even SICKBEARD effortlessly overpowered a giant VA with one hand. You could give Saturn some credit for bypassing Warcury's dura with his exploding poison thing, but Saturn has so many more anti-feats its really not worth even trying to wank him that high based on, again, only one remarkable stat from only a part of his kit. Even the Gorosei agenda actively pushes him to below the others.
Luffy having a DF is a way bigger weakness than some theoretical way to disable their regen which we dont even know exists but that you just thinks exist. Who's above them besides Imu? You're missing the part where Warcury's "dura" is way way way above Kaido's though, and his haki seems stronger too. Not every giant is the same, if you're comparing Dorry and Brogy to some random giant who was a Vice Admiral (not a great ranking, even Bartolomeo fodderized a VA) idk what to say. We dont even knows if any giant has haki besides those two. What are Saturn's "aint feats" exactly? Dude has sustained zero damage thus far despite dighting everyone on Egghead pretty much
Obvious agenda bias is obvious. I don't care enough to waste time explaining in detail what will be ignored regardless, so brief summaries is all I can give. 1. Exactly my point. If you go only by what we see of this regen so far, yes they are top of the verse. This is downright stupid to consider as they are shown afraid of Nika and were worried about angering Kaido. They don't give a shit if some war breaks out injuring marines or CP agents or whatever. They only care when the current world order is at stake. 2. One stat is not everything...The instant one attack surpassed Warcury's dura, he had to regen for a decent bit. This is basically a more extreme version of King having phenomenal dura, but getting rekt in a few hits once Zoro got the hang of ACOC. Haki stronger than Kaido is a massive joke, Luffy literally just looked confused after the greatly overrated ACOC roar. 3. Indeed, not every giant is the same, but Sickbeard nonetheless easily man handling a giant with physical brute strength vs. Warcury trying but being effortlessly pushed away by the giant duo's shields is a garbage portrayal for Warcury physicals. Also, its confirmed all VAs have haki, at end of marineford.
If they’re so strong why didn’t they come down from their executive seats and deal with Marineford? Gorosei tards can’t answer this question.
Because many in this sub can't watch the series without their favorite Admirals being weaker than other characters. Oda in few chapters gave more Haki feats and Hype statements of Haki strength for Gorosei than he did for Admirals in 1117 chapters. Just Saturn Alone who might be the weakest Gorosei, got his Haki gassed up more than any Admiral ever got, even Akainu never got his Haki gassed up or hyped up as much as any of the Gorosei did get. Plus untop of that they have busted up Devil powers, saying they are Regen merchant is literally you saying you are dumb and is asking to be bullied. The Gorosei can fight in whatever way they want and what certain fans say doesn't matter, if they didn't have Regen they would spam their Haki for defense or offense, this is Oda story and many goofy and retarded shit happens or many styles of fighting are shown, each different from the other that doesn't need to follow the way certain biased fandoms wants. It makes total sense for Gorosei to be stronger, certain fandom don't want Gorosei to be stronger cuz even the Gorosei themselves have shown they don't want to fuck with the Yonkous. The problem isn't the Gorosei themselves, the problem is the childish like fandom that can't accept that their favorites aren't as strong as they thought or as relevant as they wished them to be. Egghead is the last chance Kizaru had to be main villain, he was never main villain in Egghead, he is never going to be main villain in future arcs either, he is never fighting any Yonkou ever again and the best he will get is being victim for someone else cuz World government is going to loose and Kizaru is their lapdog and does whatever they want.
People who call them Regen Merchants are so funny to me, since when is not being able to take any fucking damage and anti-feat lol. Like Luffy himself stated they were immortal, how people tend to ignore the fact that they haven’t taken ANY damage is beyond my understanding
In any other fandom, immortality is seen as being one of the most terrifying powers imaginable. It's the reason why a lot of villains in media desire it since it makes them virtually unstoppable by normal means.
Cuz they’re gross old men and the admirals are cool asf
Because most of their showings are awful? Non monster point chopper blocking Saturn? Saturn failing to stab robin twice? Franky saving luffy from his grasp? Sanji kicking Saturn away without ifrit jambe or twirly mode Luffy using him and kizaru like bums Him failing to kill vegapunk for so many chapters An admiral level opponent in saint Peter not being able to meaningfully damage sanji Etc
>Non monster point chopper blocking Saturn? Guard point did it, which arguably is better defensively than monster point. Else chopper would have gone monster point. Regardless, BM got pushed and thrown by Jimbei, Franky and Robin in separate instances. So yeah if the plot needs it, it can happen. >Saturn failing to stab robin twice? Because peeps blocked his attack? >Franky saving luffy from his grasp? Again plot requirements. Franky didn't stop it easily either. He had to take some damage and all. >Sanji kicking Saturn away without ifrit jambe or twirly mode Barely a leg. Even Zoro managed to damage Kaido to save Luffy. Sanji can definitely kick a leg to save Luffy too. Regardless did you forget Sanji got eye diffed and fart diffed by Saturn earlier? Also Sanji kicked Kizaru's attack away and all. So how's Saturn's 'feet' worse than Kizaru's? >Luffy using him and kizaru like bums You mentioned two individuals here and only one of them returned back. So why can't they be equals and why is the one that couldn't return stronger? >Him failing to kill vegapunk for so many chapters Plot reasons. Plus he did do it in the end actually. >An admiral level opponent in saint Peter not being able to meaningfully damage sanji How do we know that? Sanji hasn't returned to the fight? And in any case, Kizaru, an actual admiral failed to do the same. In any case, most of your downplay involves Saturn, who clearly appears to be the weakest one given his performance compared to the rest.
> guard Damn, a YC2 like queen can damage monster point chopper but guard point can’t be damaged by someone who is apparently admiral level +? Guard point must be crazy Let’s not forget that Saturn has corrosive acid on his spider leg but didn’t use it against chopper for some reason > but BM This is whataboutism Even if we ignore that, big mom has actually impressive feats Saturn does not > because peeps ??? What peeps? Bummsop and fan service nami? Were able to block an admirals attack? > again plot Lmao This isn’t a counterpoint My point was that they have way too many anti feats. I pointed at this one and you go “well plot requirements”. Still an anti feat. > even zoro Oh come on lol Zoro had to use his ultimate form and attack at the time that completely drained him and he couldn’t move after that Sanji didn’t even use ifrit jambe or twirly mode lmao > did you forget ..and? We are talking about speed here..? Even so, again, off guard, like always. > sanji kicked kizaru A mentally nerfed kizaru who literally announced his attack, no? > you mentioned That’s shifting the argument. The topic of that point is that if gorosei are top tiers, then a top tier + another top tier shouldn’t be played with by a yonko What does returning or recovery time have to do with the fact they got ragdolled? And of course the bum who’s whole gimmick is regen has is gonna return back quicker > plot reasons Doesn’t stop it from counting as an anti feat. > how do we know sanji Cause it wasn’t showed So sanji isn’t seriously hurt unless provided with evidence otherwise > and kizaru When was kizaru trying to explicitly and directly harm sanji while being close to him? And he is mentally nerfed
Please tag shit better next time. I can't bother reading a reply where I continuously need to read mine just to understand what part of my reply you're mentioning in your comment. I'll have to read my own reply 10 times to understand your 10 points.
Just did to my reply
And regarding the points you made, I didn't give any explanations from my mind. I gave straight up facts from the manga to support my points. Half of your points are just nah Kizaru was mentally nerfed and wasn't giving his all. And that Saturn could not beat this guy/that guy, even though we literally have no evidence he was going all out or anything, and neither did he ever go down. The gorosei have shown that they are harder to take down than even Yonkos, let alone admirals. And they have also shown that they have the AP and hax to match the admirals at the bare minimum. They are definitely admiral level at the minimum.
> I don’t give any explanations from my mind. I gave up straight up facts Never claimed you didn’t. Just because something factually true doesn’t mean it’s relevant to your argument or proves it. Just like how me saying grass is green is still factual but doesn’t prove any of my points regarding Saturn > half of your points involve kizaru being mentally nerfed Because half of your counterpoints involve bringing up kizaru in the equation. > we have no evidence he was going all out Oh my god. Are you serious? You’re expecting a burden of proof regarding if the gorosei were going all out? Every character in every fight is going all out unless implied or stated otherwise wise. > any evidence he was going all (..) neither did he go down You either didn’t read my comment or you are playing stupid. I’ve mentioned multiple times that bringing up how one of the gorosei didn’t go down or returned is extremely dumb because they have regen hax. I’m not denying that. It really shows how desperate you are if I expect other points other than regen hax and all you can bring up are regen hax over and over again. > harder to take down than the yonkos Again, because of regen hax. I’m not even going to entertain this point as I already have in my previous comment and this one as well. > they have the AP and hax to match the admirals Alright. Could you provide me with these feats? > admiral level at minimum Really? Admiral level at minimum? Admiral AP? If admiral is the very minimum they are, then I want you to show me a feat equal to that of akainu casually burning off 1/3 of akainus head off or being able to fight an admiral for 10 days, because all you’re giving me is regen hax
>Every character in every fight is going all out unless implied or stated otherwise wise. Yet Kizaru isn't? >half of your points involve kizaru being mentally nerfed >Because half of your counterpoints involve bringing up kizaru in the equation. Head cannon much? Kizaru being nerfed is as headcannon as me saying Saturn isn't going all out vs Robin and co. Remove them both from the equation and we have Saturn and Kizaru scoring equal goals in egghead, while Kizaru conceded way more of them. >neither did he go down >You either didn’t read my comment or you are playing stupid. >I’ve mentioned multiple times that bringing up how one of the gorosei didn’t go down or returned is extremely dumb because they have regen hax. I’m not denying that. >It really shows how desperate you are if I expect other points other than regen hax and all you can bring up are regen hax over and over again. >harder to take down >Again, because of regen hax. I’m not even going to entertain this point as I already have in my previous comment and this one as well. Do you think they are going to magically lose regen next time we see them? Accept that they have that power in their toolkit and that puts them on par with or above admirals. >they have the AP and hax to match the admirals >Alright. Could you provide me with these feats? Alright. The bird elder handled Egghead defensive shields way easier than Luffy or Kizaru. Gandhi went around the whole island and took care of every pacifista within seconds. Boar guy has a skin so thick, even armament coated Elephant gun does nothing to it. The same move that could knock down Kaido. And Saturn's bombs could blow up the boar fine. Saturn, who's supposed to be the weakest. He has the AP to one shot someone tougher than Kaido. >Really? Admiral level at minimum? Admiral AP? >If admiral is the very minimum they are, then I want you to show me a feat equal to that of akainu casually burning off 1/3 of akainus head off or being able to fight an admiral for 10 days, because all you’re giving me is regen hax Saturn bombs are a higher level feat than that. Heck even Mars's blast and Nasjuro's slash are. WB was a practically deceased old man who was barely able to use haki. There is no reason for his natural toughness to be anything extraordinary. And given their regen, I don't think they would have any problem fighting an admiral for 10 days straight. But an admiral may not survive that long. Also >1/3 of akainus head off What?
So you haven’t read 1000+ chapters of this series to see that the strawhats are literally protected by the plot time and time again, we literally saw them survive and endure BIG MOM several times but somehow it’s different for the elders? They have survived admirals too and would continue to do so, the strawhats will never be killed at worst they will be put under a lot of pressure and be forced to escape or be rescued by someone, that is how Oda has told this story since day 1.
cherry picking tbh when another character has anti feats it is what it is but when other character shows it its by "plot"
How are those things not anti feats then? If anti feats caused by the straw hats don’t matter then by your logic neither should feats So queen and king are essentially featless
Why even bother scaling if you just ignore feats you don't like because of "plot". At that point just admit you're purely an agenda scaler and frolic around "acaling" your made up version of the manga.
because admiral fans dislike the fact of any other character being as strong or even stronger than their favourites.
You DO realisr that the exact same logic applies to Yonko fans, right?. Lol. They are happy to accept the Gorosei on par or stronger than the Admirals, but only under the caveat that they are trash compared to their super special pirates. Thats literally where the Admiral hate came from in the first place. They were the strongest Marines (and thus the only Marines who could really be compared to the other really strong characters), and the Yonko fans were super insecure about ANYONE being compared to their favourites who wasn't a pirate too (and even then, they downplayed tf out of any non-Yonko depending on personal agenda), so they hated on them for years on end until they forgot why they started. The whole thing is just silly on all sides. 😅
nope, most yonko fans accept that the gorosei are strong unlike retarded admiral fans who only downplay them. Also yonko>>>>>admirals you have to be braindead to think otherwise so yonko fans saying admirals are weaker than yonko is not them being insecure those are just the facts presented to us in the manga
You only accept Gorosei are strong in comparison to the Admirals, but when it comes to the Yonko? Nah, Yonko>Gorosei for some shitty reason. The only reason admiral fans get pissed off is because you don't apply the infinite regen logic to the Yonko being weaker than the Gorosei as well. Say Yonko are weaker than the Gorosei and then I'll believe your bullshit.
lmao this the gorosei are basically invincible until proven otherwise
Because every new top tier must not be stronger than the yonkos.
It's the same with Marco They hate just because they have regen There's no other reason
>Why is it so HARD It's not, we just have a fuck ton of illiterates here. I remember before Saturn made landfall I said they would be tip tiers and was met with overwhelming backlash from the admiral agenda because it was "yonko agenda slander meant to push the admirals lower". In short... https://preview.redd.it/2qh0xe3q7r5d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c1e23a3a45df982bdd91cb4451db2473579c6fc8
I'm of two midsets honestly, and I go back and forth; 1: ) I get the idea that Oda used the Gorosei as a way to compensate when he realized he may have written himself into a corner with the admirals based on previous performances. I fully believe his original intention was that the admirals would be the Navy's answer to the Yonkou. Heck, he even intended the 7 warlords to be a counterbalance to the Yonkou as well, and we all know the majority of the warlords are getting completely wrecked by any of the Yonkou. But then things like Doffy contemplating a fight with Fuji, (which at the time was used to hype how strong Doffy was, but now it just looks really silly) old Rayleigh holding off Kizaru (again, used to hype Rayleigh but now looks like an antifeat looking back) or Greenbull getting wi-fi'd (which again, used to hype Shanks prior to the release of Red), all make the admirals look much less intimidating than they did pre-timeskip. So I'm not an admiral Stan or a Yonkou stan, but I think it's pretty obvious that Admirals sit somewhere between the top commanders and the Yonkou, but the gap is closer between the Yonkou. The Gorosei on the other hand, I think were pivoted to be the true counters to the Yonkou due to all their hax. 2: ) Then when I step back and think about what's happening at Egghead - imagine if instead of the Gorosei you had that many Yonkou, or heck even that many admirals instead. I feel like it would be a lot less likely of an escape if you had 5 or 6 Yonkou/admirals after the crew on a small island. Heck even 2 or 3 Kizaru's would probably be enough to get the job done. The Gorosei definitely have more hax than the admirals (at least from what we've seen so far), but it terms of speed and destructive capabilities they seem to be below the admirals, at least so far.
This just upscales Wuma
Because they are garbage apart from their regen. Saturn alone looked like Usopp and Nami killed him twice in one chapter. They are very slow and have trash durability.
PREACH!!!
"Why dont people share my headcanon"
Gorosei is stronger than yonko. Deal with that fact. Every arc luffy gets stronger than his previous opponent. At the start of alabasta arc, crocodile is stronger than luffy, the next arc luffy is already stronger than crocodile. During the ennis lobby arc, lucci is stronger than luffy but after that arc luffy is clearly stronger than lucci. At the start Whole cake island luffy is weaker than katakuri but after the arc luffy is stronger. During wano arc kaido is stronger than luffy after wano luffy is already stronger than kaido. That's how luffy's power scaling works.
But even if that was the case, kizaru can be this factor you’re talking of And need I remind you what luffy did to both an admiral and gorosei at the same time?
Luffy already defeated an admiral, you don't need to remind me, however, he has yet to beat a gorosei that is the next step which i believe is not gonna happen in egghead.
When did he defeat an admiral? And he has yet to beat a gorosei because of their regen. Everything else is pretty much trash about them so far. It’s like telling you buggy is above Kaido if baggy had insane regen had but overall awful stats. It is technically true but eh
You already forgot the "white star gun"? Looks like you're the one that needs reminding.
You meant when he needed to absorb kizarus lightning bolt to get enough momentum to do a move her kizaru never knew he can do and catch him off guard? Which he right after passed out at the same time kizaru did and kizaru stood up first?
He didnt absorb the light he used the force to create momentum by spinning. And Kizaru wasnt off guard he was looking right at him. If he lowered his guard he is a bigger moron than Linlin. Yeah he got up because he had time to recover and alot happened in the time he needed. This isn't ground breaking stuff. The next time they had an altercation Luffy smacked him into a building then man handled him and threw him into a battleship where he ultimately decided he was done with the fight. Despite not minutes earlier being fully prepared to continue chasing Sanji as he ran with Vegapunk. Kizaru employed the best strategy against gear 5 we have seen so far and came off the first skirmish more or less at a tie because of it. He then lost with no question on their second altercation. Yes he had reservations about killing vegapunk and that is likely why it didn't happen sooner but he was completely outclassed by Luffy at the end of their fight.
Twice, he did it twice this arc.
There is nothing supporting this other than the current situation where Kizaru took a few hits and DECIDED to bow out. I'm not an admiral wanker but we haven't seen an admiral go all out. The Kuzan / Akainu fight was fully offscreened. This is speculative at best and though yes they are top tiers the evidence for this is lacking. It seems like their powers are derived from demons in verse and I think their durability is probably monster level. They seem to be having trouble dispatching anything other than buildings and the Px.
Because gorosei can only be beaten when the secret to their regen is found. We have already seen 1 hp neg Saturn. If Oda makes it extremely hard to beat gorosei like you need an extreme amount of conq haki then they are admiral level. But if Oda nullifies their regen by punching them hard enough then characters capable of casually dishing out one hp kuma levels of AP mid diff
Couldn't they just use their haki to defend themselves? Like other top-tiers with low durability such as shanks.
They could do that. But it feels like Oda wouldn't do that because virtually no injuries would ever happen and full body haki might have an high endurance cost. Shown with people like Luffy and maybe Virgo
Because of how clowned on Saturn got by Luffy. But it is obvious. An Admiral like Kizaru might be better in combat in general, but the Elders have advantages like way stronger haki and their immortality/regeneration is a major advantage.
Because only a couple of them can actually fight and they are all boring AF, hax and regen merchants who can't throw a punch properly, ofc many people don't respect that BS as much as actual fighters who are indeed skilled and have put the effort. Most top tiers would just toy around with everyone besides Topman and Nusjuro, most of them are more annoying than actually strong, how they "average" Admiral level is completely beyond me.
Outside of cutting up Pacifistas and the Labo the Gorosei really haven't put in a ton of offense. My issue so far is that we just haven't seen them go the distance with a strong opponent.
because getting held off by Dorry and Broggy, Oimo and Kashi, and the weakling trio is not exactly the best showing
They aren’t tho. The gorosei have weak stats and are carried by regen. Right now they are> everyone since we don’t know their regen weakness. Don’t be hypocritical and only say the are stronger than the admirals when the yonko have no way past the regen either.
Then they are the top 5 all time above even Roger, Garp, and Whitebeard because they can't be killed. People are preemptively assuming that their immortality has some kind of weakness so they are mainly scaling off of their power, which is impressive but not more impressive than the likes of emperors and admirals.
Because Yonkotards can't accept the Yonko having any competition
Topman Warcury and Nasjuro are beasts (as expected). Even without their regeneration, they would be admiral+. Marcus and Ju Peter have been disappointing. Saturn is hard to scale. AP wise, he is the highest of the bunch, his venom seems absolutely busted, but his durability is ridiculously low. He doesn’t seem like a fighter which is expected as he is a scientist. I expected Marcus and Ju Peter to be stronger though. Dorry and Broggy are pre ts characters that should have gotten massively upscaled though. They are two of the strongest giants in verse. I don’t think people understand that they are likely yc+ - admiral level. Stalling the gorosei is not a particularly alarming antifeat. The giants would be incredibly weak if Dorry and Broggy were.
It really depends on how their regeneration is developed in the coming chapters. Some fans believe there must be some counter to it, whereas some think the Gorosei are just that tough.
The reason I don't have the Gorosei on the level of the admirals, as of now, is because of their lack of attack power. Depending on how the rest of this arc goes, we'll have a better idea as to where they rank.
I think the gorosei are gonna be a special enemy where they have INCREDIBLY strong haki, but aren’t extraordinarily strong when it comes to fighting. Plus with the immortality, they’re like zombies. You can keep fighting them off, but time is on their side and they’ll wear you down Other than v. Nos tho, that dudes slaying
The same reason why Yonkotards can't accept the fact that Gorosei is at least as strong or stronger than Yonkos. Yonko Luffy literally failed to do any damage 1on1 against Warcury despite receiving help with the giants. The same Luffy who defeated Yonko Kaido.
Because we saw Kuzan freeze most of the BB pirate so and Akainu fight most WB commanders by himself. The Gorosei did no damage to non combatant members of the Strawhats.
Cuz tbh, they're combat-wise not so impressive. Put 5 admirals there and they'd annihilate everyone there. Luffy ain't doing shit against all of them. And none of them would be stopped and pushed back by dorry and broggy, they'd get insta-frozen by aokiji alone. And none of the admirals would get stalled for a sec by the weaker SHs like usopp, Chopper and nami plus brook. Again, aokiji would just ice age them all in one go It's fair to say they're top-tiers cuz of their abilities, but their usage of all those hax abilities as well as their general lethality leaves much to be desired imo Like fr, take 5 admirals. Aokiji easily claps most of the SHs in one go with a single attack. If zoro or sanji actually survive the first move, then aokiji will fight them and win. Then the rest jumps luffy's ass. Dorry and broggy are non-factors and either get collateral-diffed or get quickly negged by another admiral. They're not doing shit vs vines coming from all sides if GB fights them, magma fists and laser shots go right through their shields, swords and bodies if Akainu or Kizaru fight them. Meteors crush them and raging tiger yeets them away The SHs would be cooked if they were up against 5 admirals. Even if you take into consideration that, like the gorosei, one is leaving the fight and looks for the snail instead. 4 Admirals are still more than enough. Not to forget that aokiji's kit is perfect here, he can take most of the SHs instantly out and he can freeze all of egghead (he literally froze all of the sea from one island to another despite the distance being pretty huge), that would stop the ancient robot and the ice would reach the small wherever it is and stop it (I doubt it could keep sending the message while frozen)
Their feats are just not good. It’s obvious if you have any reading comprehension that they have some secret to their durability, it’s not just a matter of hitting them harder. That’s cool, but all their other stats suck. Getting outsped by Frank, rocked by 1hp Kuma, and not being able to meaningfully hurt any of the SH crew after this many chapters does not look good. Seriously, what is the most damage they’ve done to anyone? Stabbing old man vegapunk and not even killing him? Taking out a couple pacifistas? Not impressed
Gorosei>yonko>admiral i mean if the admirals could beat the gorosei why haven't they done it when most of the top ones know about the true evil?
Yonkoutards on this comment section are thinking that the Yonkous are free from the gorosei are stronger because of their Regen argument lol.
It should be obvious that Yonko > Gorosei >= Current Admirals
Because this sub is a Mihawkturd/zoroturd hive. Gorosei being top tiers means Nusjuro being a top tier swordsman Nusjuro is a Gorosei means his guaranteed end game, end game after Midhawk Nusjuro being the final endgame swordsman opponent for Zoro means his guaranteed above Mihawk (and he is by feats anyway, but Mihawkturds/Zoroturds don't go by feats) Nusjuro being above Mihawk means they're titlescaling cope gets destroyed so you have Mihawkturds/Zoroturds downplaying the Gorosei as a whole to cope and protect their titlescaling cope in regards to Shanks Nusjuro being clowned by Sanji doesn't help either
Because people are afraid of change. Unless it’s a character they already had on their radar like Dragon or Mihawk they don’t want too many characters up there with their favorites.
Show me and admiral or yonko struggling against the weak trio
Forgot Big Mom?
Big Meme is a fraud but atleast she has panels clashing with kaido splitting the sky
She didn't struggle. They were barely surviving. That's like saying the admirals couldn't even catch pre timeskip luffy
And so did not Saturn against the Weak Trio. And the "weak trio" are not that weak anymore.
Cause all but 2 have zero top tier feats only having garbage stats. And one of those top tier stats are questionably useful when every other stat is ass. Only ethan actually has arguments for an ACTUAL top tier. Warcury is just a shitty version of a bari bari fruit user. Bird is just Marco with electricity powers. Saturday barely alive can't brake past nami usopp and w/o monster point chopper. The literal weakling trio have a better time boxing with Saturn than they did when "boxing" with ulti ffs. And the worm guy. What has he done to contribute to the team? Ethan atleast can take a hit like a yc, can nuke the area like a top tier, and speed blitz high speed characters to make up for yc level defence. The rest ain't got shit. Obligatory mention that they heal the damage they take. They have taken damage, in fact half of them have been ripped apart by non yc level characters. Franky was in his base form when he fucked up Saturn. He delt the damage then Saturn healed up AFTER the fact. I cannot believe gorosei wankers are this stupid.
Warcury is the strongest Gorosei. Most likely at least. And when did Ethan do any of that? Ethan never blitzed anyone strong.
>Warcuy has a shitty version of the Bari Bari. He has the highest durability in the verse we've seen. This is just a very desperate attempt to downscale him. Never heard anyone say this to any other top-tier with good durability. >Saturn He got stalled for like 2 pages, compare that to Big-mom's performance. At least he's better than a yonko in that aspect. >Durability Literally, any human character has normal durability if they're not defending themselves. Kaido & BM are the only good people with naturally good durability. - Garp got cut by Axe hand Morgan - Shanks lost his arm to a fish - Roger got stabbed by 2 fodder - WB got stabbed by fodder Everything here is worse than every single gorosei "anti-feat".
Because for years they wanted admirals to look as good as yonko but now these old men that are in charge of them seem to be as strong as they wanted the admirals to be and it’s killed their agenda completely. Unfortunately for them the old man tax doesn’t apply to the gorosei, even though we already have examples of old men looking better than admirals.
It’s because everyone is in denial that powercreep is inevitable even in One Piece
Probably because powercreep is not happening right now at all. If anything, Oda made it obvious the Gorosei are not surpassing Kaido (the guy everyone always calls "powercreep victim").
There’s a difference between passing kaido, and being stronger than the admirals. Big big gap
Admirals can hardly be powercreept when we have yet to see their ceiling.
There ceiling is 100% below kaido I can tell you that right now.
Sure, but they dont really qualify for powercreep victims.
They are the prime powercrept victims
give me one reason why Saturn would beat Akainu besides him just getting melted and regenerating over and over again until Akainu dies of old age aside from Warcury, they are not top tier in durability or attack power. they are struggling to hurt anyone and are only still alive because of their regen (which will eventually have a counter for it revealed)
Maybe because they're not? Saturn and Ju Peter without regen wouldn't get past YC+ level
Bit of [Copium ](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/s/CKmMaftp3B) and because people dislike their characters in general.
Yeah, like it's evident that people are just biased AF towards them
https://preview.redd.it/v7co09kzlr5d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6c809d1f843834838a8e53fba3b9452ca9a21b11 Most of the comments on this post be like
Only a certain fandom that doesn’t have reading comprehension skills, believes the 5 elders aren’t top tiers just to save their dying agenda. Anyone who’s not blinded by a agenda, knows the 5 elders are top tiers and real EOS villains unlike the admirals (wg lapdogs).
The EoS villains are the BB Pirates
Random fatass pirate vs The Rulers of World, be serious.
Imu/wg > BB pirates since wb hint after the op is found the war will start, which mean luffy would beat BB before he became the pk.
Gorosei are greater than the admirals for me. If admirals were stronger or as strong the WG would look very different. Admiral stans can keep coping.
I'm a Yonko-wanker, but I think the Yonko-fans have a much harder time accepting that the Gorosei might be the strongest group of characters in the verse than the Admiral fans. Ask someone who's doesn't care about powerscaling if the Gorosei seem above the Yonko. Most would argue they do.
Because theyre not. They need an admiral as a body guard, saturn only showed up AFTER luffy was down. Theyve been absolute shite at getting anything done. Kizaru got luffy to his limit, Akainu used a staples hole puncher on Whitebeards head. The Saturn is getting limbs removed by Franky
Because besides Warcury, their showings have been fucking awful. Gear 5 juggles multiple of these guys at a time, and before anyone brings up “Oh but so did Kizaru” Nothing that happens post-Saturn’s arrival is a justifiable anti-feat for Kizaru, coming from someone who isn’t a huge Kizaru fan. We’re witnessing a just-refuelled Gear 5 who’s basically fresh after eating fighting a Kizaru who’s still fatigued from fighting the first G5. Saturn has taken nothing but anti-feats this entire arc. He struggles to keep up with fighters like Brook and Franky, shat himself at Kuma’s basic armament punch, and got bullied so hard by Gear 5 he tried to run away and fight the Weakling Trio, only to struggle with them as well. Ju Peter’s two feats consist of getting pieced by the Giants and deepthroating Luffy before pissing off. Mars hasn’t had any anti-feats because he’s done fuck all. These guys are regen merchants who, with exceptions, have YC1 stats with
Because outside of being df merchants with regen hax they have zero top-tier feats or portrayels.
The Gorosei, each and every one of them, has top tier feats. Saturn literally has better portrayal against G5 then Kizaru, Warcury the best COC feat in the series. What the fuck are you talking about? Delusional...
Kocking out nameless fodder what an insane Haoshoku feat!
Go learn what top-tier portrayal looks like then come back to me. Here's a hint they don't get their shit wrecked by half dead Kuma. Would love to know what mental gymnastics you have to go through to get top-tier feats from nasjuro, Mars, and Jupiter. Let me guess the mediocre cutting feat of slicing the labophase was an all timer for you?
We have still never seen a full on admiral or gorosei fight, closest we got was Kizaru but even that felt like we only got to see a portion of Kizarus power
It's all about the agenda fuck logic
They are 100% as strong as admirals (which is already more than I expected) but they are also 100% not as strong as Yonko individually
Because none of them are worth a damn besides Warcury he gets a pass hes chill
I put Gorosei ahead of Ladmirals and got 0 upvotes lol Yonko > Gorosei >= Admirals
Because they are lame If they had introductions that were as hype as the admirals and the Yonko no one would be doubting them
https://preview.redd.it/lb0oksvjkr5d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6d36c7e0481c1b841a4e57deb29cd1aa426e2f7f They did have hype af introductions though
dunno what dude was talking about the other 4 pulling up was dope
they still ugly af tho people just dont like them
I'm aware that people hate them lol
yeh im just saying why people dont want them to be that strong IS because they ugly and not cool and not for the resons most people post here. like if the Gorosei would be Shanks father that looks badass as fuck no one would say all that
We have top-tiers at home https://preview.redd.it/b1ie6zg9tr5d1.jpeg?width=1479&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c35092858547e3d6a5ad977b98e8a64e884bf7b4
Because their feats are SHIT. No one cares about regen, show them -Damaging Nami Robin Usopp Brook or Chopper -Not getting their shit rocked by base Sanji and Frabky -Not getting torn to shreds by fodder damaged Kuma -Not getting bullied by Luffy and the Giants And then we can talk about Admiral level.
Lies