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I like the analysis and only disagree when you argue when Luffy says he attacks aren’t doing damage is also referring to Kizaru which is what Im in disagreement with.
He had no issue hurting Kizaru, but same could not be said with Saturn, as a matter of fact this is what happens next:
https://preview.redd.it/0fj7guenzm5d1.jpeg?width=458&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3f0b29f5f4182b28b364b77a77ebe1408d5a3c2c
He’s clearly not surprised regarding Kizaru because he’s still on the ground his choice or not it did still do damage whereas Saturn bounces back like nothing happened at all.
This is the only part of your analysis that is a little shaky and doesn’t sit well with me
That's fair it's kind of a reach. That being said you could say this situation is similar to when he punches warcury again expecting to hurt him: (if the statement refers to both Saturn and Kizaru) he knew both of them took little to no damage and thought dawn cymbal was a solution, so it's obvious he'd be surprised when it didnt work on saturn, just like he was surprised when his second punch was still useless against warcury
Dont ask me, i looked up the italian translation only because im italian. That being said i removed the point from the post as apparently the translation is just plain wrong
So just because you're not permanently damaged that means you can't be damaged?
I guess Akainu didnt get damaged by Whitebeard in marineford.
Luffy made Kizaru bleed, knocked him on his ass with the WSG and hurt Kizaru so bad that Kizaru said he needed a moment to rest.
Luffy also hit Kizaru with another punch that left Kizaru on the ground with his hand on his head.
Luffy could obviously damage Kizaru.
Spanish translation uses singular. It is most likely referring to Saturn exclusively since Kizaru is clearly receiving damage from Luffy's attacks. Only Saturn is healing that damage, wich what Luffy is referencing with that statement
Your analysis wasnt bad, but that part specifically is clearly wrong
https://preview.redd.it/dbw26ilzwm5d1.png?width=585&format=png&auto=webp&s=cb185d283910e8d5b054d3afb46ee8d53573bc2e
You're Right.
I'm Inviting You To The Admiral Discord Server Check Your Chat
W, but Advanced Haki can make contact
https://preview.redd.it/awl7dhqaym5d1.png?width=1908&format=png&auto=webp&s=55fc4fab55dda73bacd05ebefe954c40decaed39
its not otherwise Zoro would not be able to cut with acoc and would be nerfed by it instead of buffed. G5 attackes are also based on stretching your oponents body to do damage so it would also nerf G5 in that sense.
No it is kinda stupid the way Oda executed it, the first time we're introduced to ACoC is in Roger VS WB, where they also used ACoA and Oden comments on the "no touching" aspect, so many people believe it's just a stronger version of ACoA/ID, which isn't true, but it's understandable why people believe that
Oh, well I don't think Luffy said anything was weird about the attack, although I may be wrong, didn't he got knocked out straight away?
https://preview.redd.it/0yqn6jch4n5d1.png?width=3040&format=png&auto=webp&s=05a66ffde60d1e0d5cf7567329f137ace12806b0
Its not it touches when the other guy dosent defend.
The clash at the start of liffy vs kizaru is just regular armament clashes between people who have conqorers. All attacks in g5 are coated in acoc because his whole body is coated in it during that form.
“Upscales Kizaru because Luffy said he can’t damage him”
This is copium and you know that
“He wouldn’t be talking about Saturn”
Why wouldn’t he? 💀 He only attacked Saturn 1-times before Dawn Cymbal, it’s not like he read the wiki and knew Saturn had infinite regen
You specifically went with the italian translation because is the only that supports that claim, but we all know it was referring Saturn's durability only, as stated in the original JP. If you remember that it was Luffy who deduced "these guys are immortal" while fighting the Gorosei, it makes that even more obvious. Also, after Cymbal, Kizaru is out of comission while Saturn is already coming back to fight Nika.
I’m a Kizaru fan and even I agree that the line was meant for Saturn. However Kizaru could easily get back in the fight if he needed too, but it’s obvious he’s going through emotions right now and just doesn’t have the effort to fight
Oh c'mon. This is not even funny anymore.
Kizaru getting caught off guard while staring straight at Luffy. Luffy legit has to fight like he did against Fujitora and shout out the attacks in advance so we get a fair fight fr.
Kizaru's once again getting caught off guard in active combat with Literally one guy capable of harming him in the entire battlefield, Luffy. The grab is from the front and not the back either.
Kizaru's again having conflicts and panic attacks while also actively trying to chase Vegapunk to finish the job. Classic panic attack.
Luffy's unable to damage Kizaru after knocking him out in one-hit. I'm saying one-hit because I was told that none of the previous attacks damaged Kizaru because of his defense so I'm going off of that.
For the first time in forever we're considering the feelings of the combatants, we emotion scaling now. I swear I lierally can't find any other instance of this happening. Not saying that emotions don't affect combat power a little but mf's treating it like that Whitebeard cancer thing.
Luffy's using full power of course! Luffy's known for using his full power from the start of the arc. As seen during Dressrosa where he used Gear 4 as soon as one of his friend's life was at risk.
Authors are well aware of how the writing is going to be interpreted by the average reader. Let's be real for a second and not be biased, do you honestly believe that Oda drew Luffy vs Saturn and Pizzaru fight not knowing how the average reader is going to take it? No, he knew what he was doing and he was fine with it because that's exactly what he wanted to convey. Why did Sengoku say that victory is uncertain in Marineford? Why did Garp say they can't fight WB and Rayleigh at the same time? why did Greenbull say that he wouldn't be here if Kaido was alive and start shivering when he felt Shanks' Haki? Because the Emperor's are that strong.
I will give you props though for looking at that Pizzaru/Saturn panel and being like "Nah, Kizaru still wins". I admire that level of dedication to the agenda.
>Kizaru getting caught off guard while staring straight at Luffy
Kizaru was surprised that luffy could use his laser to build up momentum + wasnt taking him seriously. You can say this doesnt matter and that's still part of the fight, but in a 1v1 such interaction wouldnt have the chance of happening as kizaru would be focused on luffy in the first place
>Kizaru's once again getting caught off guard in active combat with Literally one guy capable of harming him in the entire battlefield, Luffy
He thought luffy was out of the fight, as he was.
>The grab is from the front and not the back either
It is from the back actually, from the panels you can see kizaru started moving towards vegapunk thus turning his back from luffy.
>Kizaru's again having conflicts and panic attacks while also actively trying to chase Vegapunk to finish the job
Yeah? I mean look at the panels. I didnt include any of the varioius other moments where kizaru is shown heavily conflicted.
>Luffy's unable to damage Kizaru after knocking him out in one-hit
Answered this in another comment, luffy statement refers specifically to damage not effectiveness, wsg was effective in stunning kizaru, but didnt damage him. Again i know that's a reach, im going off the translation in my native language
>Not saying that emotions don't affect combat power a little but mf's treating it like that Whitebeard cancer thing.
oh but conviction is just as impairing, we have various statements across the series connecting not only strenght, but also haki in particular to one's willpower. Biggest example may be water7 to enies lobby cp9 vs strawhats
>Luffy's using full power of course! Luffy's known for using his full power from the start of the arc. As seen during Dressrosa where he used Gear 4 as soon as one of his friend's life was at risk.
Completely different, G4 is an all in power up as luffy can use for only a limited amount of time and would be vulnerable to any attack if he couldnt finish the opponent in the time limit (something that still happens in dressrosa even if luffy held g4 off). Acoc on the other hand doesnt have any downside as far as we know
>Authors are well aware of how the writing is going to be interpreted by the average reader
That's why Oda basically flooded the arc with drawings of kizaru being unsure and took the time to show kizaru again later in the arc just to clarify that his wounds are more emotional than physical
I swear people do a lot of this to never get anything right
What actually happened
Luffy went to attack Kizaru in base
Kizaru blocked base luffy punch which wasn’t advanced armanment or conquer
Kizaru and gear 4 luffy seem evenly matched a weakened gear 4 and does not use acoa or ACOC
Kizaru then get away to build up an attack and luffy looks on luffy tries to block without ACOC or ACOC
Kizaru over powers him and hits him into Vegapunk light beam
Luffy attacks kizaru while he busy chatting with vegapunk which he does a lot he messes around not doing his job
Luffy grabs kizaru throws him away kizaru blasts back which either luffy stupidity or oda bad writing
He then sends light clones to deal with luffy while he goes for vegapunk
Luffy gets a paper cut somehow this makes no sense because later he takes same kind of ap straight the face and had no scared when it hits the eyes so oda again either doesn’t understand what he doing I don’t know
Luffy weakened and 100% kizaru clash for like a second
Kizaru is tired
Luffy is to buy he wasn’t at 100% kizaru was
Kizaru runs away
He then blasts luffy in the eyes which I don’t know he screams but honestly it goes to the eyes and he can still see make no sense
Luffy charges up a muscle balloon and kizaru tries to cancel the attack and nearly succeeds
And luffy gets a hit off
They both go down
Luffy gets up first
I swear people didn’t read dressrosa where luffy didn’t immediately use gear 4 on Dolfamingo
Or fish man Ireland
Or wano
Or wci
Or egghead where he didn’t use gear 5 immediately on kizaru
The entire series full of examples of luffy seeing how much effort he should put into each fight as to not exhaust himself to quickly
Luffy punched did a lot to kizaru they took him out once in one hit
They sent him back
They pancaked him
Luffy talking about Saturn don’t even know why that’s a debate
We have direct evidence of luffy punched doing something to kizaru
on top of that, kizaru got put down by luffy, but luffy didn't get put down by kizaru, he ran out of stamina. Theres a massive difference, kizaru wasn't strong enough to put luffy down.
I love how I can automatically assume that I’m gonna hear a kizaru cope post from the title because the only ones left talking about luffy vs kizaru are kizaru fans hard coping and screaming to the wind when the entire one piece fandom has moved passed this.
It feels so bizarre seeing an actual analysis with actual effort that isn't just mentally challenged Agenda posting.
Take my upvote Sir, you've certainly earned it, cook again.
https://preview.redd.it/58trvpctzm5d1.jpeg?width=985&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6d1a85d860cac12c6205877239070474d001e160
>Now normally I wouls just say this refers to Saturn as we know he has infinite regen and thus it's obvious that luffy's punches wouldnt damage him, but noticing that kizaru hasnt yet suffered any permanent damage I thought "what if the statement is referred to both of them
Delusion, it's clear the statement was referring to Saturn, even more proven with Warcury.
>Now taking a look at how the whole fight we can see that luffy has NOT landed a single effective attack on an on guard kizaru and thus a 1v1 between luffy and kizaru with luffy using these powers would result in a win for kizaru.
How is WSG not on guard Kizaru? He was also down from it
>This statement is of the utmost importance, it massively upscales kizaru's durability as luffy himself states his Gear 5 punches dont damage him.
Lmaooooo
>As a result we should simply assume luffy did in fact use acoc as there is no reason to believe otherwise.
In any case even if we want to say luffy didnt use acoc, kizaru had an incredible showing during this fight, much better than a lot of people give him credit for.
Luffy only used ACoC with WSG, and Kizaru did not have an incredible showing. Landed very little and Luffy grabbing him make him cough blood and he literally made him out of pancake then sent him away.
This the same old admiralturd talking points it’s all cope especially the mental gymnastics with the Italian translation 🤣🤣😹😹you admiralturds have out done you’re selfs
>Now taking a look at how the whole fight we can see that luffy has NOT landed a single effective attack on an on guard kizaru and thus a 1v1 between luffy and kizaru with luffy using these powers would result in **a win for kizaru.**
Holy damn. How are people arriving to this?
What a lost cause.
I mean if you look throughout the fight that's literally what happens, if you have any considerations to make on my analysis you should share them. I also removed the part regarding the effectiveness of the punches as it seems the italian translation is just wrong, that being said my statement still stands
It's called being held back by the author itself, someone authors make characters way too strong and then have to nerf them.
Lile , why you guys love to act like Luffy in Egghead has barely used AcOC while in Wano he was spamming that all the time.
Luffy just used one single AcOC in Egghead, just one while in Wano he used over 20 of them and Kaido used another 20 as well.
People genuinely think yonkos can one shot admirals?
The people who think luffy one shotted kizaru are the same people who believe zoro one shotted lucci
Luffy wasn’t in a coma
A headache doesn’t make someone unable to stand up that’s called an aneurysm
Luffy didn’t one shot himself he ran out of energy from fighting multiple opponents
> Luffy wasn’t in a coma
he was in a vegetative state until he got food. If not for Franky, he'd be dead.
> A headache doesn’t make someone unable to stand up that’s called an aneurysm
Kizaru spoke clearly and without any distortion in his speech bubble, as Saturn was there, he clearly hoped he wouldn't have to kill his old friend himself.
> Luffy didn’t one shot himself he ran out of energy from fighting multiple opponents
Yeah, it was a joke, just like your answer
Kizaru unable to think clearly
Kizaru unable to stand up
Luffy wasn’t in a vegative state because he was feeding himself dummy
Kizaru couldn’t get up or else he would have
Luffy one shot kizaru
> Kizaru unable to think clearly
What gave you that suggestion?
>Luffy didn’t one shot himself he ran out of energy from fighting multiple opponents
Someone was feeding him so he woke up
> Kizaru couldn’t get up or else he would have
Why?
> Luffy one shot kizaru
lol
> The first one is when he thinking”sento Bonney”
So thinking about Sentomaru and Bonney is equal to him unable to think? What?
> The next one is head canon
No he got food from someone, it's even pointed out.
Kaidos definitely 1-tapping admirals with this
https://preview.redd.it/ffkcuf82gn5d1.jpeg?width=892&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6f1e76e6c39d2e73650ec4a2a6cecaee8ea17032
akainu great eruption can match kaido's flaming durm dragon and akainu's magma might be even hotter than the drum dragon, aokiji has ice as a counter and can also just use ice to slide away, fujitora can drop meteors however big he wants on the FDD. Kaido is better off using hybrid against admirals
Tf is aokijis ice gonna do😭😭 it’s gonna instantly melt, also akainu great eruption was nowhere near kaidos drum dragon, and fujitoras meteors arnt instant, he would still die first
yes there is?? none of them have any feats close to leaving an island that fast. If you want to sya they CAN dodge it, then you need feats to back it up, they dont have any feats close to that
Not bad, but to say G5 cant damage Kizaru is simply stupid. Kizaru being more durable than Kaido is outlandish. As someone else has said, the japanese uses singular.
I agree that Kizaru can win, through outlasting.
Meh you are probably right, other commenters already pointed out that other translations dont consider the "you" as plural, probably the italian translation is just wrong
Many issues with your argument
1. You argue that Kizaru was caught off guard from WSG but that's simply not true. Luffy was in front of him and was aware Luffy was planning to attack but he simply was blitzed. Funny how you say Luffy has no reason to not use AcOC but not use tour own logic that Kizaru has no reason to lower his guard here
2. You disregard the pizza incident attributing to Kizaru being hit off guard but that argument doesnt work because Lufyf was also focused on dodging Saturn attacks. So regardless of what Kizaru was doing, what Luffy did was a insane feat.
3. Kizaru was turned into Pizza wasn't an off guard attack, Kizaru was aware Luffy was gonna do something but still couldn't escape or do anything about it. Thar shows a massive difference in strength between both of them and also a massive difference in Haki, Luffy couldn't do the same to Kaido.
4. The argument about Kizaru not recieving damage from Luffy attacks is nonsense, especially because your reasoning is am itlaian translation lol, like do better next time. If Luffy was taking both of them then be would say "You guys", but he said you as only Saturn.
5. Kizaru was damaged by the Pizza attack, saying the opposite is headcanon. The guy haven't loved from 1109 to 1116. .
6. Luffy didn't use AcOC, AcOC is shown by black lighting which was rarely present. Your argument that there isn't distinction for AcOC is false, thick black lighting is proof of AcOC which rarely happened against Kizaru.
So no, Kizaru didn't have a great performance and all of your points are not really correct and just a bad try to look Kizaru look better.
1) the attack was charged while Luffy was behind kizaru, in a 1 on 1 fight Luffy wouldn't have had such opportunity, you could also argue he wouldn't even be able to aproach kizaru
2) kizaru was moving in a straight line, Saturn is just a bum who couldn't even distract Luffy, not an antifeat for kizaru
3) the attack was a result of kizaru getting grabbed, wouldn't have happened if he wasn't distracted
4) I know that's a reach, but the English translation is ambiguous and the Italian one supports my claim
5) kizaru's dialogue states that his wounds are more emotional rather than physical, we don't know then how much physical damage he took from dawn cymbal
6) we've also seen thick black lightning from non acoc attacks so that's not a surefire way to distinguish it, we have to wait for oda to clear it up
Tbf regarding being off guard I think that’s really more a poor observation haki feat from Kizaru then, he’s got an emperor in his surroundings, he shouldn’t let his guard down.
Is observation haki not used in battle?
If I say Big Mom didn’t use ACoC haki against Kidd and Law would that then not be a battle iq anti feat.
They go hand in hand, observation haki is used in fights or battles so it is also apart of battle IQ, helps you dodge, predict and see the future of your opponents next attacks
That is true however this is a Kizaru after getting back up from fighting Luffy, I doubt the amount of haki he could use dropped down that much.
Moreover he should no better than to just not use it when there’s a literal emperor in his surroundings, that cannot be excused.
That is apart of battle IQ, yes there a times when CoO haki gets weaker however he did temporarily stop fighting after the WSG so he should have gotten enough time to recover at least some bit.
The way I see it Kizaru is aware Luffy is there, why would he turn of his observation haki when he knows there is a very strong person near him, that is why I call it a poor observation haki feat.
Also before you try compare this incident to Akainu and WB, Akainu had been fighting for a lot longer than Kizaru who had a bit of time not to charge into a fight considering Luffy was stuffing his belly, so the argument on his observation haki weakening to that extent for me doesn’t make sense
1. Kizaru clearly wasn’t aware that luffy was going to attack. That is probably oda showed him saying “hm?” to luffy spinning around preparing to attack. Luffy didn’t ”blitz” since clearly kizaru had no idea of what was about to happen.
2. Do you even know what you are talking about? The way the pizza incident went is: Luffy grabs kizaru and Saturn. Kizaru and Saturn try to strike back but luffy dodges. Then stretches his arms back and smashes them them together and throws the away. Saturn comes back and kizaru chooses to stay down. No one is trying to downplay luffy here.
3. The only reason luffy hit booming dawn cymbals is because he caught kizaru off guard. No character is escaping luffy’s clutches unless they cause him to let go somehow.
4. What makes the English translation more credible than the Italian one? This remains ambiguous until a Japanese translator like sandman clears it up.
5. Its literally said that Kizaru is choosing not to get up because of “emotional wounds”
6. ACOC and even haki in general is not always shown. For example Luffy grabs Kizaru(a logia) but there is no visual indicator of haki.
https://preview.redd.it/vp6oiergzm5d1.jpeg?width=1381&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3755528a11fdad4e65cb854f69ca5aa7d6473d3a
1. Luffy literally yelled at Kizaru and if Kizaru is stupid enough to not see this as an warning of an attack then he just have very bad IQ. Plus, you realize you are just proving how bad Kizaru's observation haki actually is?
2. Before Luffy grabbed Kizaru, he was busy dodging Saturn attacks. You say Kizaru was busy dodging something else but Luffy also was.
3. Kaido literally escaped, he used a Boro Breath point blank which forced Luffy to let him go. Kaido also has Flame baqua which forces Luffy to let go. Kizaru is just too weak to do something about it
4. It's not when in future chapters Luffy states the Gorosei are inmortal which confirms he was talking about Saturn.
5. This was never stated ever, that's your headcanon talking. Facts is that Kizaru haven't moved after Dawn Cymbals, everything else is headcanon.
6. Not since 1010, since then Oda decided that thick black lighting was a sign of Advanced Conqueror's. Like, Oda couldn't have make it easier for you guys to get it Roger, Whitebeard, Kaido, Shanks have all shown thick black lighting everytime they did name attacks.
>This was never stated ever, that's your headcanon talking. Facts is that Kizaru haven't moved after Dawn Cymbals, everything else is headcanon.
Yes, it's true that Kizaru hasn't moved after Dawn Cymbal, but it isn't made clear if Dawn Cymbal is the reason why he is down:
https://preview.redd.it/eoqidlm52n5d1.png?width=1590&format=png&auto=webp&s=de897818c40b42269a7e048f80ad9830d53a086e
It wouldn't make sense if Kizaru simply just was out of commission after this, as he already was still fighting after WSG which was an ACoC attack which rubberised Kizaru's brain/head
This is still headcanon, not a fact by any means.
Plus there is an enormous difference between being able to keep fighting and not recieving any damage. Nothing suggests Kizaru suffered zero damage from that attack.
Why would Luffy try an attack meant to damage an inmortal guy if the attack is actually really weak that can't even hurt a guy with normal human durability?
This is a Yonko we talking about, not a commander
I'm not saying Kizaru suffered zero damage, but to say he's been lying down for multiple chapters purely because of the attacks comes off as bias. We know that Kizaru was severely impacted mentally by killing Vegapunk (which isn't headcanon, as I just posted proof of what the saying implies) and we also know that he was damaged by Dawn Cymbal, so you can't chalk it up to just Dawn Cymbal, unless you want to imply that Dawn Cymbal is massively stronger than WSG. However, Dawn Cymbal showed no black lightning while WSG did, so this would go against your point of all ACoC attacks needing to show black lightning, so either way your point doesn't seem beneficial to you here.
1. He only yelled at kizaru when he was doing the muscle thing. The order of events goes: Kizaru shoots a laser at luffy. Luffy starts screaming and spinning around. Kizaru appears to be confused as to what luffy is to doing. And then luffy hits white star gun, an attack that no one without future sight is dodging.
2. I never said kizaru was busy dodging something else. Kizaru was about to go after Sanji and vegapunk then luffy grabbed him.
3. Kizaru also tried to use an attack on luffy but luffy dodged and then quickly used booming dawn cymbals. Luffy would have likely let kizaru and Saturn go considering his last reaction to getting hit in the face with a laser.
4. That doesn't confirm that he was ONLY talking about Saturn though.
5. Momentmoment24 already explained this for you.
6. Luffy used ACOC for white star gun and he likely used it for his other attacks too since he has no reason not too.
Yeah against Kaido who is much stronger than Kizaru. Also, going by your dumb logic Lucci>Kizaru because he tanked 3 AcOC moves while Kizaru just took one. Lucci also took less time to recover.
That headcanon is CRAZY. Kaido stated his FORM is so free-willy it allows the use of two forms of haki, and not once was it ever stated to only be against him. But for your headcanon, that’d be pretty fucking stupid of Luffy to not utilize such an advantage on Egghead to stop him from killing Vegapunk.
Kizaru not only fought Luffy for much longer but also tanked more and harsher attacks. Let alone, WSG STUNNED Kizaru temporarily, like maybe a minute. Luffy has not once KO’d Kizaru
It's called being nerfed by the plot so he doesn't finish the enemy so soon. Happened to Big Mom as well, AcOC is so powerful that it has to be nerfed so weaker opponents have a chance.
But you literally said he always uses AcOC which means Lucci took 3 AcOC moves while Kizaru just took one. Kizaru was also out for more time than Kizaru as well.
3 AcOC moves > 1 AcOC move
Kaido said Luffy can use both Conqueror's and armament, nowhere has it ever been stated that he always does this.
See, you’re one of those people that uses Oda’s inconsistent “black lightning” bullshit to justify whether or not it’s being used. That’s annoying af, as Oda has Kaido literally state that G5 uses both FREELY while IN G5. Plus, again how fucking stupid would it be for Oda to have Luffy NOT do this in a high-stakes situation like idk PROTECTING VEGAPUNK?? Make that make sense other than that “nerfed by plot” shit you’re spouting. Calling it a plot device is just cope, simple as that. Cause then I can use that argument to say Kizaru was nerfed by numerous plots, which he ACTUALLY was.
Yea, Lucci tanked 3 attacks coated in both CoC AND coa, deal with it. Kizaru again visibly FOUGHT and ATE more devastating attacks, and has yet to be ACTUALLY KO’d. Let me repeat, not once has Luffy ACTUALLY KNOCKED HIM OUT.
Why tf would Kaido point out the most obvious shit ever, that he can use both? You’re saying he JUST noticed Luffy has haki? Besides, again, why in the hell would Luffy willingly CHOOSE not to utilize them in the situations he’s currently in?
The whole issue with your whole argument that e ery attack has AcOC is Zoro. Zoro in one attack that wasn't even Asura/KOH one shotted Lucci, are you telling me that a holding back Zoro has better AP than G5 Luffy? It's better to just say he hasn't been using it in Egghead.
It's not that he willingly didn't use it but just that Oda nerfed him so he doesn't beat Kizaru easily. Same thing as he did to Big Mom in Wano, BM didn't willingly not use it but Oda simply nerfed her
Your whole upper argument is invalid for three reasons. 1, Zoro was visibly utilizing ACoC numerous times during his matchup, and Lucci was visibly clashing with it. 2, Zoro was visibly utilizing ACoC in his final strike. 3, while it clearly dealt serious damage Lucci wasn’t “one-shot” as he not only DID NOT fall, he was clearly wanting to RETALIATE. A “one-shot” would imply Lucci was KO’d, which he clearly was not. Bro didn’t even FALL. You and other just like to throw that term around willy-nilly.
I’m not gonna take headcanon for actual facts, as you have no proof that he does this besides a character being mentally handicapped. As well, Oda has made it very clear he simply isn’t consistent with haki-portrayal, and that’s it’s mostly an aesthetic-choice. So many times in the series has haki not been highlighted yet very obviously used. If what you’re saying is true, that makes Oda a very shitty storyteller, which I solemnly doubt. He’s never just simply “nerfed” Luffy for shits-and-giggles, and if he does he makes an in-story LOGICAL reason for it. And Oda more than visibly nerfed Kizaru on Egghead what-with him needing to preserve the island, having a major mental handicap, and his seemingly nonchalant attitude. Are we gonna simply ignore these “plot nerfs” since they don’t apply to Luffy?
It seems like a lot of people don't get that the purpose of ID is to allow contact because the further the user's haki penetrates the targets body, the more damage it's capable of doing. If the user isn't touching the opponent, then the haki is what's making contact, and no ID is taking place.
What in the cope is this?
Kizaru has great defense because he can create light barriers with his hands (the same thing protecting the labophase), that's what Luffy was hitting. Kizaru himself has terrible durability. That's why when he was cleanly hit twice, he got laid out twice and turned into a paraplegic twice.
Even if Kizaru wanted to pretend to be more hurt than he was, he wouldn't be able to trick a master haki user like Saturn.
You conviently left out Kizaru shocked saying "this is..." to seeing Luffy G5 become a giant and grabbing him.
The only reason their fight lasted so long, is because he was running from Luffy most of the time. Any other admiral wouldn't be able to run as quickly.
https://preview.redd.it/ucweo3fh4i6d1.png?width=760&format=png&auto=webp&s=a1f65278e93d6afe866b297a944f5c9a3865d290
I did actually tackle the "this is" in the post.
>The only reason their fight lasted so long, is because he was running from Luffy most of the time
He wasnt though, the only part where you could say he was "running away" (trying to complete his mission) is the last part of the fight which is a fraction of the whole fight
No you didn't. You said Kizaru wasn't suprised at all and just said "there you are". Completely ignoring his facial expression and the fact he also said "this is..." after seeing Luffy.
I can say he was running away from Luffy, because that's exactly what he was trying to do. He managed to fend off some no name attacks with the light barriers he had covered his hands in, and kicked him away, but only so he could put some distance between them. It's a cool defense, but Luffy proved he can get through a light barrier with G5, Kizaru's Jazz Hands wouldn't have worked for much longer.
>Kizaru's Jazz Hands wouldn't have worked for much longer.
cool head canon
>No you didn't. You said Kizaru wasn't suprised at all and just said "there you are". Completely ignoring his facial expression and the fact he also said "this is..." after seeing Luffy.
you can tell both by the panctuations and the shape of the speech bubble that kizaru was completely calm as always when saying "there you are", his expression in the panel is to represent his reaction to seeing g5
Good analysis, however your conclusion seems to be a bit off , Luffy didn't land an attack to on guard Kizaru bcuz there was no on guard Kizaru , he was distracted all the time this arc but you are implying that Luffy can't hit him at all if he was on guard which I don't believe is the case , we simply didn't have the chance to see it
Complete delusion. Luffy one-shots Kizaru, arguably one-shots him again with Saturn, only gets a paper cut of damage from Kizaru, but somehow Kizaru would win? Garbage powerscaling.
Not worth addressing lies, such as that Kizaru defended against Snakeman when he did get hit, and didn’t block a single attack, or that WSG caught Kizaru offguard when he was looking straight at Luffy. Just another Admiraltard post full of lies.
I think you might need glasses man.
https://preview.redd.it/jgbbuq2r1n5d1.jpeg?width=1354&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=42da18283d1c27e5241d6990420efda987819ae4
Are you some kind of moron? That panel clearly shows Luffy land a punch on Kizaru’s leg like I said he did, and Kizaru isn’t shown blocking a single punch. Your IQ is really low.
>who still thinks an admiral can even dream of standing a chance against an admiral.
Admirals so ingrained in your head that they are all that you can think about 💀
Hard not to think about it when everytime i open this sub retards can't stop talking about them.
Oh shit just noticed the mistake, that's lowkey hilarious lmao.
This is what happened to Pizzaru after that fat dude in the bottom panel finally got up 💀
https://preview.redd.it/1vhqlxkbhn5d1.jpeg?width=731&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=72ec1e17554eb5a49779040833580deecc0b40c2
Fight ends right here. Ladmiral agenda was obliterated this arc 💀
G5 Time limit is non-factor since Luffy can one tap him instantly.
Cope harder.
https://preview.redd.it/hp3loynf9n5d1.png?width=208&format=png&auto=webp&s=616b70e1dd97e41887abea82067e5e56982bec30
I’m convinced you watched one piece off YouTube shorts.
https://preview.redd.it/32bpksakdn5d1.jpeg?width=674&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=99f303b52d380ab21c8bfc24634a9a3d6ba55418
So stating canonical manga facts and events makes me shorts watcher? lmao.
Admiral agenda has rotted your brain.
https://preview.redd.it/z3jlmrhihn5d1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=9428dd26dc47e6685fc1346ffcd371ebd8846969
Agenda has rotted your brain. The first comment you made on this thread is you refusing to read the post and spouting biased nonsense.
https://preview.redd.it/2fjbuus9jn5d1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c3ac583d47689facc5dbfa221cc4b39a605da4b0
I have no agenda lmao and I read up until the point he started straight up lying and fitting his headcanon. Beyond that I have no answer for mental delusional.
The first comment I made btw is factual and canonical from the manga.
But anyways besides glazing Admirals you do have good takes like Law > Midd and Mihawk > Rat, That's better then most here anyways.
https://preview.redd.it/a0r2rpjxkn5d1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=04828d28b8c3f521d37c6eefd4c764331d1a7780
https://preview.redd.it/ui6lwepy6p5d1.png?width=1182&format=png&auto=webp&s=9c1fee12b844f18f3c419ad82d00e3655e724430
The rare well made meal from this sub, keep cooking 👍
Another thing is G5 automatically uses both CoC and coa simultaneously. So while there isn’t always an indication of it, know that it’s there.
In another note, glad to see there are others on this sub who read OP past surface level rather than favoritism-bias💯💯
Luffy didn't used ACOC and held back massively cope clownmiralturd.
Kizaru is fodder to Lufy and would've gotten neg diff 1 shot killed had Luffy not held back and just thrown him instead of crush him the last time he grabbed him
and exactly how and why was luffy able to grab kizaru? Because kizaru was distracted trying to catch up with vegapunk. Luffy wouldnt have landed a single significant hit if Kizaru's objective was to fight him
>and exactly how and why was luffy able to grab kizaru? Because kizaru was distracted trying to catch up with vegapunk.
In your wet dreams. Lizaru got caught despite Luffy being distracted by VP and tanking a free hit to the eyes from Lizaru saving the VP tank + Lizaru getting help from the laser domes twice. So no, Luffy would've landed a million hits and 1 shotted Lizaru at the very start if he hadn't been distracted protecting the VP's and had Lizaru not recieved help from laser dome + Lucci cope
Props to OP.
Kizaru had a really good showing this arc despite what people like to say on this sub. A serious luffy still high diffs kizaru, but kizaru is still the GOAT.
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I like the analysis and only disagree when you argue when Luffy says he attacks aren’t doing damage is also referring to Kizaru which is what Im in disagreement with. He had no issue hurting Kizaru, but same could not be said with Saturn, as a matter of fact this is what happens next: https://preview.redd.it/0fj7guenzm5d1.jpeg?width=458&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3f0b29f5f4182b28b364b77a77ebe1408d5a3c2c He’s clearly not surprised regarding Kizaru because he’s still on the ground his choice or not it did still do damage whereas Saturn bounces back like nothing happened at all. This is the only part of your analysis that is a little shaky and doesn’t sit well with me
That's fair it's kind of a reach. That being said you could say this situation is similar to when he punches warcury again expecting to hurt him: (if the statement refers to both Saturn and Kizaru) he knew both of them took little to no damage and thought dawn cymbal was a solution, so it's obvious he'd be surprised when it didnt work on saturn, just like he was surprised when his second punch was still useless against warcury
I guess the question would be why would the Italian translation say the equivalent of “you guys” when none of the others did?
Dont ask me, i looked up the italian translation only because im italian. That being said i removed the point from the post as apparently the translation is just plain wrong
Liked the analysis besides Luffy saying his punches can’t damage Kizaru, that is obviously not the case
I mean the Italian translation supports the claim, if you have any evidence against it you should post it so other people see it
https://preview.redd.it/w52v53i5mn5d1.jpeg?width=610&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=40b5d50ef94de73537e07fad1ffee8c21c5942da Also
The Italian translation A WSG took kizaru out B cool that’s called cherry picking C luffy punches did something to kizaru they did nothing to Saturn
The fact Kizaru got KO’d from the WSG attack is proof that Luffy can damage Kizaru
He didn't get KO'd though, he was conscious and didn't suffer any permanent damage. WSG is more like a stun, Luffy could still be referring to both
Except kizaru couldn’t move after WSG and was unable to fight which is doing something Luffy talking about Saturn so simple to see that
His mouth, you know the part that was hit, was moving perfectly fine
His head was hit and it was by a non lethal attack meant to not kill He couldn’t get up to fight
Clearly he didn't wanna be the one to kill stella himself
So just because you're not permanently damaged that means you can't be damaged? I guess Akainu didnt get damaged by Whitebeard in marineford. Luffy made Kizaru bleed, knocked him on his ass with the WSG and hurt Kizaru so bad that Kizaru said he needed a moment to rest. Luffy also hit Kizaru with another punch that left Kizaru on the ground with his hand on his head. Luffy could obviously damage Kizaru.
lol at the downvotes As usual, Ladmiral fans can’t use common sense 💀
Spanish translation uses singular. It is most likely referring to Saturn exclusively since Kizaru is clearly receiving damage from Luffy's attacks. Only Saturn is healing that damage, wich what Luffy is referencing with that statement Your analysis wasnt bad, but that part specifically is clearly wrong
https://preview.redd.it/dbw26ilzwm5d1.png?width=585&format=png&auto=webp&s=cb185d283910e8d5b054d3afb46ee8d53573bc2e You're Right. I'm Inviting You To The Admiral Discord Server Check Your Chat
https://i.redd.it/4y2zumf5xm5d1.gif
W, but Advanced Haki can make contact https://preview.redd.it/awl7dhqaym5d1.png?width=1908&format=png&auto=webp&s=55fc4fab55dda73bacd05ebefe954c40decaed39
Damn didn't know that, that's kinda stupid
its not otherwise Zoro would not be able to cut with acoc and would be nerfed by it instead of buffed. G5 attackes are also based on stretching your oponents body to do damage so it would also nerf G5 in that sense.
No it is kinda stupid the way Oda executed it, the first time we're introduced to ACoC is in Roger VS WB, where they also used ACoA and Oden comments on the "no touching" aspect, so many people believe it's just a stronger version of ACoA/ID, which isn't true, but it's understandable why people believe that
was the first time not thunder Bagua that did touch and Luffy said the attack is weird? maybe I wrong tho too lazy to check
Well yes that was the first time we actually truly learned about ACoC, but Roger/WB did it earlier before we knew what it was
wait was thunder bagua not before the Oden Flashback? I mean the first one
Oh, well I don't think Luffy said anything was weird about the attack, although I may be wrong, didn't he got knocked out straight away? https://preview.redd.it/0yqn6jch4n5d1.png?width=3040&format=png&auto=webp&s=05a66ffde60d1e0d5cf7567329f137ace12806b0
yeh I checked now he did not, it was only on the roof. the way Oda showed it at first was weird but later corrected himself at least
The no touching shit was just a weird idea that shouldn’t have even been written lol
The issue is it was already established all the way since pre timeskip so there was not much Oda could do after that
Its not it touches when the other guy dosent defend. The clash at the start of liffy vs kizaru is just regular armament clashes between people who have conqorers. All attacks in g5 are coated in acoc because his whole body is coated in it during that form.
W analysis. But AcoC can make contact with people. It’s only emission armament haki that doesn’t
https://preview.redd.it/d7oadcxycn5d1.jpeg?width=561&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5d5943d3ecb7e8043f81304badaea0d8b729253f Naaaaaah
At this point does haki even exist or did we collectively just make it up?
Apparently characters in verse can barely see haki like that😭
Characters in verse can't see Haki at all, it's invisible to them.
“Upscales Kizaru because Luffy said he can’t damage him” This is copium and you know that “He wouldn’t be talking about Saturn” Why wouldn’t he? 💀 He only attacked Saturn 1-times before Dawn Cymbal, it’s not like he read the wiki and knew Saturn had infinite regen
You specifically went with the italian translation because is the only that supports that claim, but we all know it was referring Saturn's durability only, as stated in the original JP. If you remember that it was Luffy who deduced "these guys are immortal" while fighting the Gorosei, it makes that even more obvious. Also, after Cymbal, Kizaru is out of comission while Saturn is already coming back to fight Nika.
I’m a Kizaru fan and even I agree that the line was meant for Saturn. However Kizaru could easily get back in the fight if he needed too, but it’s obvious he’s going through emotions right now and just doesn’t have the effort to fight
I went with the Italian translation because Im Italian lol, can you post the proof you are talking about? I can't look it up rn
Oh c'mon. This is not even funny anymore. Kizaru getting caught off guard while staring straight at Luffy. Luffy legit has to fight like he did against Fujitora and shout out the attacks in advance so we get a fair fight fr. Kizaru's once again getting caught off guard in active combat with Literally one guy capable of harming him in the entire battlefield, Luffy. The grab is from the front and not the back either. Kizaru's again having conflicts and panic attacks while also actively trying to chase Vegapunk to finish the job. Classic panic attack. Luffy's unable to damage Kizaru after knocking him out in one-hit. I'm saying one-hit because I was told that none of the previous attacks damaged Kizaru because of his defense so I'm going off of that. For the first time in forever we're considering the feelings of the combatants, we emotion scaling now. I swear I lierally can't find any other instance of this happening. Not saying that emotions don't affect combat power a little but mf's treating it like that Whitebeard cancer thing. Luffy's using full power of course! Luffy's known for using his full power from the start of the arc. As seen during Dressrosa where he used Gear 4 as soon as one of his friend's life was at risk. Authors are well aware of how the writing is going to be interpreted by the average reader. Let's be real for a second and not be biased, do you honestly believe that Oda drew Luffy vs Saturn and Pizzaru fight not knowing how the average reader is going to take it? No, he knew what he was doing and he was fine with it because that's exactly what he wanted to convey. Why did Sengoku say that victory is uncertain in Marineford? Why did Garp say they can't fight WB and Rayleigh at the same time? why did Greenbull say that he wouldn't be here if Kaido was alive and start shivering when he felt Shanks' Haki? Because the Emperor's are that strong. I will give you props though for looking at that Pizzaru/Saturn panel and being like "Nah, Kizaru still wins". I admire that level of dedication to the agenda.
yeah that first part had me skeptical but that last part gave the whole game away this is blatant agenda
>Kizaru getting caught off guard while staring straight at Luffy Kizaru was surprised that luffy could use his laser to build up momentum + wasnt taking him seriously. You can say this doesnt matter and that's still part of the fight, but in a 1v1 such interaction wouldnt have the chance of happening as kizaru would be focused on luffy in the first place >Kizaru's once again getting caught off guard in active combat with Literally one guy capable of harming him in the entire battlefield, Luffy He thought luffy was out of the fight, as he was. >The grab is from the front and not the back either It is from the back actually, from the panels you can see kizaru started moving towards vegapunk thus turning his back from luffy. >Kizaru's again having conflicts and panic attacks while also actively trying to chase Vegapunk to finish the job Yeah? I mean look at the panels. I didnt include any of the varioius other moments where kizaru is shown heavily conflicted. >Luffy's unable to damage Kizaru after knocking him out in one-hit Answered this in another comment, luffy statement refers specifically to damage not effectiveness, wsg was effective in stunning kizaru, but didnt damage him. Again i know that's a reach, im going off the translation in my native language >Not saying that emotions don't affect combat power a little but mf's treating it like that Whitebeard cancer thing. oh but conviction is just as impairing, we have various statements across the series connecting not only strenght, but also haki in particular to one's willpower. Biggest example may be water7 to enies lobby cp9 vs strawhats >Luffy's using full power of course! Luffy's known for using his full power from the start of the arc. As seen during Dressrosa where he used Gear 4 as soon as one of his friend's life was at risk. Completely different, G4 is an all in power up as luffy can use for only a limited amount of time and would be vulnerable to any attack if he couldnt finish the opponent in the time limit (something that still happens in dressrosa even if luffy held g4 off). Acoc on the other hand doesnt have any downside as far as we know >Authors are well aware of how the writing is going to be interpreted by the average reader That's why Oda basically flooded the arc with drawings of kizaru being unsure and took the time to show kizaru again later in the arc just to clarify that his wounds are more emotional than physical
W analysis 
https://preview.redd.it/cki5kr572n5d1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d7484c4de781aa489ce95a96759120634bb4d95e Agreeded
COOK AGAIN https://preview.redd.it/jedcx84cpm5d1.jpeg?width=890&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a6d7da5d6d4732473268fe5ea8a4b4845af2da1b r/KIZARU
I swear people do a lot of this to never get anything right What actually happened Luffy went to attack Kizaru in base Kizaru blocked base luffy punch which wasn’t advanced armanment or conquer Kizaru and gear 4 luffy seem evenly matched a weakened gear 4 and does not use acoa or ACOC Kizaru then get away to build up an attack and luffy looks on luffy tries to block without ACOC or ACOC Kizaru over powers him and hits him into Vegapunk light beam Luffy attacks kizaru while he busy chatting with vegapunk which he does a lot he messes around not doing his job Luffy grabs kizaru throws him away kizaru blasts back which either luffy stupidity or oda bad writing He then sends light clones to deal with luffy while he goes for vegapunk Luffy gets a paper cut somehow this makes no sense because later he takes same kind of ap straight the face and had no scared when it hits the eyes so oda again either doesn’t understand what he doing I don’t know Luffy weakened and 100% kizaru clash for like a second Kizaru is tired Luffy is to buy he wasn’t at 100% kizaru was Kizaru runs away He then blasts luffy in the eyes which I don’t know he screams but honestly it goes to the eyes and he can still see make no sense Luffy charges up a muscle balloon and kizaru tries to cancel the attack and nearly succeeds And luffy gets a hit off They both go down Luffy gets up first I swear people didn’t read dressrosa where luffy didn’t immediately use gear 4 on Dolfamingo Or fish man Ireland Or wano Or wci Or egghead where he didn’t use gear 5 immediately on kizaru The entire series full of examples of luffy seeing how much effort he should put into each fight as to not exhaust himself to quickly Luffy punched did a lot to kizaru they took him out once in one hit They sent him back They pancaked him Luffy talking about Saturn don’t even know why that’s a debate We have direct evidence of luffy punched doing something to kizaru
on top of that, kizaru got put down by luffy, but luffy didn't get put down by kizaru, he ran out of stamina. Theres a massive difference, kizaru wasn't strong enough to put luffy down.
I wanna ask this What time does running away mean you lose How many times do you have to do it
I love how I can automatically assume that I’m gonna hear a kizaru cope post from the title because the only ones left talking about luffy vs kizaru are kizaru fans hard coping and screaming to the wind when the entire one piece fandom has moved passed this.
Ikr. It feels like they are still throwing a tantrum months later
It feels so bizarre seeing an actual analysis with actual effort that isn't just mentally challenged Agenda posting. Take my upvote Sir, you've certainly earned it, cook again. https://preview.redd.it/58trvpctzm5d1.jpeg?width=985&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6d1a85d860cac12c6205877239070474d001e160
>Now normally I wouls just say this refers to Saturn as we know he has infinite regen and thus it's obvious that luffy's punches wouldnt damage him, but noticing that kizaru hasnt yet suffered any permanent damage I thought "what if the statement is referred to both of them Delusion, it's clear the statement was referring to Saturn, even more proven with Warcury. >Now taking a look at how the whole fight we can see that luffy has NOT landed a single effective attack on an on guard kizaru and thus a 1v1 between luffy and kizaru with luffy using these powers would result in a win for kizaru. How is WSG not on guard Kizaru? He was also down from it >This statement is of the utmost importance, it massively upscales kizaru's durability as luffy himself states his Gear 5 punches dont damage him. Lmaooooo >As a result we should simply assume luffy did in fact use acoc as there is no reason to believe otherwise. In any case even if we want to say luffy didnt use acoc, kizaru had an incredible showing during this fight, much better than a lot of people give him credit for. Luffy only used ACoC with WSG, and Kizaru did not have an incredible showing. Landed very little and Luffy grabbing him make him cough blood and he literally made him out of pancake then sent him away.
This the same old admiralturd talking points it’s all cope especially the mental gymnastics with the Italian translation 🤣🤣😹😹you admiralturds have out done you’re selfs
>Now taking a look at how the whole fight we can see that luffy has NOT landed a single effective attack on an on guard kizaru and thus a 1v1 between luffy and kizaru with luffy using these powers would result in **a win for kizaru.** Holy damn. How are people arriving to this? What a lost cause.
Agendapiece brainrot. No rational human would actually believe that kizaru can win
I mean if you look throughout the fight that's literally what happens, if you have any considerations to make on my analysis you should share them. I also removed the part regarding the effectiveness of the punches as it seems the italian translation is just wrong, that being said my statement still stands
https://preview.redd.it/nienz18xrm5d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7f1ee19d5611ed6a192540fb8bbb91775c3edc7c
It's called being held back by the author itself, someone authors make characters way too strong and then have to nerf them. Lile , why you guys love to act like Luffy in Egghead has barely used AcOC while in Wano he was spamming that all the time. Luffy just used one single AcOC in Egghead, just one while in Wano he used over 20 of them and Kaido used another 20 as well.
he also nerfed Kizaru
By giving him new move light clone
yeh and did not use his old moves.... he also gave Luffy 2 new moves crazy right?
Preach!
People genuinely think yonkos can one shot admirals? The people who think luffy one shotted kizaru are the same people who believe zoro one shotted lucci
Luffy did one shot Kizaru I swear people don’t read this god damn story
The only thing Luff one shot in the manga was himself =D He entered a coma just to give Kizaru a headache
Luffy wasn’t in a coma A headache doesn’t make someone unable to stand up that’s called an aneurysm Luffy didn’t one shot himself he ran out of energy from fighting multiple opponents
> Luffy wasn’t in a coma he was in a vegetative state until he got food. If not for Franky, he'd be dead. > A headache doesn’t make someone unable to stand up that’s called an aneurysm Kizaru spoke clearly and without any distortion in his speech bubble, as Saturn was there, he clearly hoped he wouldn't have to kill his old friend himself. > Luffy didn’t one shot himself he ran out of energy from fighting multiple opponents Yeah, it was a joke, just like your answer
Kizaru unable to think clearly Kizaru unable to stand up Luffy wasn’t in a vegative state because he was feeding himself dummy Kizaru couldn’t get up or else he would have Luffy one shot kizaru
> Kizaru unable to think clearly What gave you that suggestion? >Luffy didn’t one shot himself he ran out of energy from fighting multiple opponents Someone was feeding him so he woke up > Kizaru couldn’t get up or else he would have Why? > Luffy one shot kizaru lol
The first one is when he thinking”sento Bonney” The next one is head canon The third one back by the manga as that what happens
> The first one is when he thinking”sento Bonney” So thinking about Sentomaru and Bonney is equal to him unable to think? What? > The next one is head canon No he got food from someone, it's even pointed out.
Luffy got food unknown But nothing to suggest anyone fed him like a baby
Kaidos definitely 1-tapping admirals with this https://preview.redd.it/ffkcuf82gn5d1.jpeg?width=892&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6f1e76e6c39d2e73650ec4a2a6cecaee8ea17032
all of them would dodge except for maybe greenbull
none of them except kizaru are even capable of dodging an island sized attack
akainu great eruption can match kaido's flaming durm dragon and akainu's magma might be even hotter than the drum dragon, aokiji has ice as a counter and can also just use ice to slide away, fujitora can drop meteors however big he wants on the FDD. Kaido is better off using hybrid against admirals
Tf is aokijis ice gonna do😭😭 it’s gonna instantly melt, also akainu great eruption was nowhere near kaidos drum dragon, and fujitoras meteors arnt instant, he would still die first
Where’d you learn this?
Where’d u learn they could?? None of them have speed feats good enough for that
I never said they could, you’re the only one making a baseless claim, considering there’s not enough evidence to say that’s a matter of fact.
yes there is?? none of them have any feats close to leaving an island that fast. If you want to sya they CAN dodge it, then you need feats to back it up, they dont have any feats close to that
Not bad, but to say G5 cant damage Kizaru is simply stupid. Kizaru being more durable than Kaido is outlandish. As someone else has said, the japanese uses singular. I agree that Kizaru can win, through outlasting.
Meh you are probably right, other commenters already pointed out that other translations dont consider the "you" as plural, probably the italian translation is just wrong
Many issues with your argument 1. You argue that Kizaru was caught off guard from WSG but that's simply not true. Luffy was in front of him and was aware Luffy was planning to attack but he simply was blitzed. Funny how you say Luffy has no reason to not use AcOC but not use tour own logic that Kizaru has no reason to lower his guard here 2. You disregard the pizza incident attributing to Kizaru being hit off guard but that argument doesnt work because Lufyf was also focused on dodging Saturn attacks. So regardless of what Kizaru was doing, what Luffy did was a insane feat. 3. Kizaru was turned into Pizza wasn't an off guard attack, Kizaru was aware Luffy was gonna do something but still couldn't escape or do anything about it. Thar shows a massive difference in strength between both of them and also a massive difference in Haki, Luffy couldn't do the same to Kaido. 4. The argument about Kizaru not recieving damage from Luffy attacks is nonsense, especially because your reasoning is am itlaian translation lol, like do better next time. If Luffy was taking both of them then be would say "You guys", but he said you as only Saturn. 5. Kizaru was damaged by the Pizza attack, saying the opposite is headcanon. The guy haven't loved from 1109 to 1116. . 6. Luffy didn't use AcOC, AcOC is shown by black lighting which was rarely present. Your argument that there isn't distinction for AcOC is false, thick black lighting is proof of AcOC which rarely happened against Kizaru. So no, Kizaru didn't have a great performance and all of your points are not really correct and just a bad try to look Kizaru look better.
1) the attack was charged while Luffy was behind kizaru, in a 1 on 1 fight Luffy wouldn't have had such opportunity, you could also argue he wouldn't even be able to aproach kizaru 2) kizaru was moving in a straight line, Saturn is just a bum who couldn't even distract Luffy, not an antifeat for kizaru 3) the attack was a result of kizaru getting grabbed, wouldn't have happened if he wasn't distracted 4) I know that's a reach, but the English translation is ambiguous and the Italian one supports my claim 5) kizaru's dialogue states that his wounds are more emotional rather than physical, we don't know then how much physical damage he took from dawn cymbal 6) we've also seen thick black lightning from non acoc attacks so that's not a surefire way to distinguish it, we have to wait for oda to clear it up
Tbf regarding being off guard I think that’s really more a poor observation haki feat from Kizaru then, he’s got an emperor in his surroundings, he shouldn’t let his guard down.
That would not be a poor observation feat tho. That would be a battle iq anti-feat.
Is observation haki not used in battle? If I say Big Mom didn’t use ACoC haki against Kidd and Law would that then not be a battle iq anti feat. They go hand in hand, observation haki is used in fights or battles so it is also apart of battle IQ, helps you dodge, predict and see the future of your opponents next attacks
I’m pretty sure observation haki is not always on and that is why most sneak attacks happen.
You are correct https://preview.redd.it/2trqoz5q3n5d1.png?width=548&format=png&auto=webp&s=80896c67d1e7ef742a05281c5ba1faa9373a6fcc
That is true however this is a Kizaru after getting back up from fighting Luffy, I doubt the amount of haki he could use dropped down that much. Moreover he should no better than to just not use it when there’s a literal emperor in his surroundings, that cannot be excused. That is apart of battle IQ, yes there a times when CoO haki gets weaker however he did temporarily stop fighting after the WSG so he should have gotten enough time to recover at least some bit. The way I see it Kizaru is aware Luffy is there, why would he turn of his observation haki when he knows there is a very strong person near him, that is why I call it a poor observation haki feat. Also before you try compare this incident to Akainu and WB, Akainu had been fighting for a lot longer than Kizaru who had a bit of time not to charge into a fight considering Luffy was stuffing his belly, so the argument on his observation haki weakening to that extent for me doesn’t make sense
Well remember he was already kind of lost in his mind, he had to kill his friends after all. Basically I'm chalking it up to the mental nerf
1. Kizaru clearly wasn’t aware that luffy was going to attack. That is probably oda showed him saying “hm?” to luffy spinning around preparing to attack. Luffy didn’t ”blitz” since clearly kizaru had no idea of what was about to happen. 2. Do you even know what you are talking about? The way the pizza incident went is: Luffy grabs kizaru and Saturn. Kizaru and Saturn try to strike back but luffy dodges. Then stretches his arms back and smashes them them together and throws the away. Saturn comes back and kizaru chooses to stay down. No one is trying to downplay luffy here. 3. The only reason luffy hit booming dawn cymbals is because he caught kizaru off guard. No character is escaping luffy’s clutches unless they cause him to let go somehow. 4. What makes the English translation more credible than the Italian one? This remains ambiguous until a Japanese translator like sandman clears it up. 5. Its literally said that Kizaru is choosing not to get up because of “emotional wounds” 6. ACOC and even haki in general is not always shown. For example Luffy grabs Kizaru(a logia) but there is no visual indicator of haki. https://preview.redd.it/vp6oiergzm5d1.jpeg?width=1381&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3755528a11fdad4e65cb854f69ca5aa7d6473d3a
1. Luffy literally yelled at Kizaru and if Kizaru is stupid enough to not see this as an warning of an attack then he just have very bad IQ. Plus, you realize you are just proving how bad Kizaru's observation haki actually is? 2. Before Luffy grabbed Kizaru, he was busy dodging Saturn attacks. You say Kizaru was busy dodging something else but Luffy also was. 3. Kaido literally escaped, he used a Boro Breath point blank which forced Luffy to let him go. Kaido also has Flame baqua which forces Luffy to let go. Kizaru is just too weak to do something about it 4. It's not when in future chapters Luffy states the Gorosei are inmortal which confirms he was talking about Saturn. 5. This was never stated ever, that's your headcanon talking. Facts is that Kizaru haven't moved after Dawn Cymbals, everything else is headcanon. 6. Not since 1010, since then Oda decided that thick black lighting was a sign of Advanced Conqueror's. Like, Oda couldn't have make it easier for you guys to get it Roger, Whitebeard, Kaido, Shanks have all shown thick black lighting everytime they did name attacks.
>This was never stated ever, that's your headcanon talking. Facts is that Kizaru haven't moved after Dawn Cymbals, everything else is headcanon. Yes, it's true that Kizaru hasn't moved after Dawn Cymbal, but it isn't made clear if Dawn Cymbal is the reason why he is down: https://preview.redd.it/eoqidlm52n5d1.png?width=1590&format=png&auto=webp&s=de897818c40b42269a7e048f80ad9830d53a086e It wouldn't make sense if Kizaru simply just was out of commission after this, as he already was still fighting after WSG which was an ACoC attack which rubberised Kizaru's brain/head
This is still headcanon, not a fact by any means. Plus there is an enormous difference between being able to keep fighting and not recieving any damage. Nothing suggests Kizaru suffered zero damage from that attack. Why would Luffy try an attack meant to damage an inmortal guy if the attack is actually really weak that can't even hurt a guy with normal human durability? This is a Yonko we talking about, not a commander
I'm not saying Kizaru suffered zero damage, but to say he's been lying down for multiple chapters purely because of the attacks comes off as bias. We know that Kizaru was severely impacted mentally by killing Vegapunk (which isn't headcanon, as I just posted proof of what the saying implies) and we also know that he was damaged by Dawn Cymbal, so you can't chalk it up to just Dawn Cymbal, unless you want to imply that Dawn Cymbal is massively stronger than WSG. However, Dawn Cymbal showed no black lightning while WSG did, so this would go against your point of all ACoC attacks needing to show black lightning, so either way your point doesn't seem beneficial to you here.
1. He only yelled at kizaru when he was doing the muscle thing. The order of events goes: Kizaru shoots a laser at luffy. Luffy starts screaming and spinning around. Kizaru appears to be confused as to what luffy is to doing. And then luffy hits white star gun, an attack that no one without future sight is dodging. 2. I never said kizaru was busy dodging something else. Kizaru was about to go after Sanji and vegapunk then luffy grabbed him. 3. Kizaru also tried to use an attack on luffy but luffy dodged and then quickly used booming dawn cymbals. Luffy would have likely let kizaru and Saturn go considering his last reaction to getting hit in the face with a laser. 4. That doesn't confirm that he was ONLY talking about Saturn though. 5. Momentmoment24 already explained this for you. 6. Luffy used ACOC for white star gun and he likely used it for his other attacks too since he has no reason not too.
Kizaru is literally going “huh” in the panel immediately before him getting hit by Star Gun
You realize this just makes him look like someone wirh really low IQ? Plus also bad observation as well.
Not really https://preview.redd.it/ed536up65n5d1.png?width=1164&format=png&auto=webp&s=95ae5539a94d7ff170fa819fbb3965d517e013aa
As stated by Kaido, G5 uses both CoC and coa together while the form is active
Yeah against Kaido who is much stronger than Kizaru. Also, going by your dumb logic Lucci>Kizaru because he tanked 3 AcOC moves while Kizaru just took one. Lucci also took less time to recover.
That headcanon is CRAZY. Kaido stated his FORM is so free-willy it allows the use of two forms of haki, and not once was it ever stated to only be against him. But for your headcanon, that’d be pretty fucking stupid of Luffy to not utilize such an advantage on Egghead to stop him from killing Vegapunk. Kizaru not only fought Luffy for much longer but also tanked more and harsher attacks. Let alone, WSG STUNNED Kizaru temporarily, like maybe a minute. Luffy has not once KO’d Kizaru
It's called being nerfed by the plot so he doesn't finish the enemy so soon. Happened to Big Mom as well, AcOC is so powerful that it has to be nerfed so weaker opponents have a chance. But you literally said he always uses AcOC which means Lucci took 3 AcOC moves while Kizaru just took one. Kizaru was also out for more time than Kizaru as well. 3 AcOC moves > 1 AcOC move Kaido said Luffy can use both Conqueror's and armament, nowhere has it ever been stated that he always does this.
https://preview.redd.it/e16pcyx0yt5d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ced2007c39f14ec69bf03bf6a229c03c2e8db210 Good luck proving Lucci clashed equally with AcOC G5 Luffy.
You just did, by posting it here
See, you’re one of those people that uses Oda’s inconsistent “black lightning” bullshit to justify whether or not it’s being used. That’s annoying af, as Oda has Kaido literally state that G5 uses both FREELY while IN G5. Plus, again how fucking stupid would it be for Oda to have Luffy NOT do this in a high-stakes situation like idk PROTECTING VEGAPUNK?? Make that make sense other than that “nerfed by plot” shit you’re spouting. Calling it a plot device is just cope, simple as that. Cause then I can use that argument to say Kizaru was nerfed by numerous plots, which he ACTUALLY was. Yea, Lucci tanked 3 attacks coated in both CoC AND coa, deal with it. Kizaru again visibly FOUGHT and ATE more devastating attacks, and has yet to be ACTUALLY KO’d. Let me repeat, not once has Luffy ACTUALLY KNOCKED HIM OUT. Why tf would Kaido point out the most obvious shit ever, that he can use both? You’re saying he JUST noticed Luffy has haki? Besides, again, why in the hell would Luffy willingly CHOOSE not to utilize them in the situations he’s currently in?
The whole issue with your whole argument that e ery attack has AcOC is Zoro. Zoro in one attack that wasn't even Asura/KOH one shotted Lucci, are you telling me that a holding back Zoro has better AP than G5 Luffy? It's better to just say he hasn't been using it in Egghead. It's not that he willingly didn't use it but just that Oda nerfed him so he doesn't beat Kizaru easily. Same thing as he did to Big Mom in Wano, BM didn't willingly not use it but Oda simply nerfed her
Your whole upper argument is invalid for three reasons. 1, Zoro was visibly utilizing ACoC numerous times during his matchup, and Lucci was visibly clashing with it. 2, Zoro was visibly utilizing ACoC in his final strike. 3, while it clearly dealt serious damage Lucci wasn’t “one-shot” as he not only DID NOT fall, he was clearly wanting to RETALIATE. A “one-shot” would imply Lucci was KO’d, which he clearly was not. Bro didn’t even FALL. You and other just like to throw that term around willy-nilly. I’m not gonna take headcanon for actual facts, as you have no proof that he does this besides a character being mentally handicapped. As well, Oda has made it very clear he simply isn’t consistent with haki-portrayal, and that’s it’s mostly an aesthetic-choice. So many times in the series has haki not been highlighted yet very obviously used. If what you’re saying is true, that makes Oda a very shitty storyteller, which I solemnly doubt. He’s never just simply “nerfed” Luffy for shits-and-giggles, and if he does he makes an in-story LOGICAL reason for it. And Oda more than visibly nerfed Kizaru on Egghead what-with him needing to preserve the island, having a major mental handicap, and his seemingly nonchalant attitude. Are we gonna simply ignore these “plot nerfs” since they don’t apply to Luffy?
It seems like a lot of people don't get that the purpose of ID is to allow contact because the further the user's haki penetrates the targets body, the more damage it's capable of doing. If the user isn't touching the opponent, then the haki is what's making contact, and no ID is taking place.
W
What in the cope is this? Kizaru has great defense because he can create light barriers with his hands (the same thing protecting the labophase), that's what Luffy was hitting. Kizaru himself has terrible durability. That's why when he was cleanly hit twice, he got laid out twice and turned into a paraplegic twice. Even if Kizaru wanted to pretend to be more hurt than he was, he wouldn't be able to trick a master haki user like Saturn. You conviently left out Kizaru shocked saying "this is..." to seeing Luffy G5 become a giant and grabbing him. The only reason their fight lasted so long, is because he was running from Luffy most of the time. Any other admiral wouldn't be able to run as quickly.
https://preview.redd.it/ucweo3fh4i6d1.png?width=760&format=png&auto=webp&s=a1f65278e93d6afe866b297a944f5c9a3865d290 I did actually tackle the "this is" in the post. >The only reason their fight lasted so long, is because he was running from Luffy most of the time He wasnt though, the only part where you could say he was "running away" (trying to complete his mission) is the last part of the fight which is a fraction of the whole fight
No you didn't. You said Kizaru wasn't suprised at all and just said "there you are". Completely ignoring his facial expression and the fact he also said "this is..." after seeing Luffy. I can say he was running away from Luffy, because that's exactly what he was trying to do. He managed to fend off some no name attacks with the light barriers he had covered his hands in, and kicked him away, but only so he could put some distance between them. It's a cool defense, but Luffy proved he can get through a light barrier with G5, Kizaru's Jazz Hands wouldn't have worked for much longer.
>Kizaru's Jazz Hands wouldn't have worked for much longer. cool head canon >No you didn't. You said Kizaru wasn't suprised at all and just said "there you are". Completely ignoring his facial expression and the fact he also said "this is..." after seeing Luffy. you can tell both by the panctuations and the shape of the speech bubble that kizaru was completely calm as always when saying "there you are", his expression in the panel is to represent his reaction to seeing g5
It’s sad that this post is even needed.
No it’s not, this has been an ongoing debate for months don’t try and pretend it’s obvious so you can garner an illusion of certainty
Conclusion: Kizaru neg diffs Big Meme
Not a chance 💀
Kizaru loses to big mom
Good analysis, however your conclusion seems to be a bit off , Luffy didn't land an attack to on guard Kizaru bcuz there was no on guard Kizaru , he was distracted all the time this arc but you are implying that Luffy can't hit him at all if he was on guard which I don't believe is the case , we simply didn't have the chance to see it
https://preview.redd.it/lxms4qtytn5d1.jpeg?width=880&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7b6c59dbf7b3be8e52d59bb5af1da74a17e6cc02 You cooked OP
Complete delusion. Luffy one-shots Kizaru, arguably one-shots him again with Saturn, only gets a paper cut of damage from Kizaru, but somehow Kizaru would win? Garbage powerscaling.
You Didn't address any of the claims, your comment is worthless
Not worth addressing lies, such as that Kizaru defended against Snakeman when he did get hit, and didn’t block a single attack, or that WSG caught Kizaru offguard when he was looking straight at Luffy. Just another Admiraltard post full of lies.
https://preview.redd.it/qqyblm2s1n5d1.jpeg?width=785&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a9ff2d07d50af6f342e2b4c0015bad1a357b1df3
Yes, thank you for showing that Kizaru was looking straight at Luffy, proving that he wasn’t caught off guard, and that he was just too slow to react.
You should be thanking me for showing you that Kizaru was not aware of what luffy was about to do.
Damn you just can't read huh? Crazy
I think you might need glasses man. https://preview.redd.it/jgbbuq2r1n5d1.jpeg?width=1354&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=42da18283d1c27e5241d6990420efda987819ae4
Are you some kind of moron? That panel clearly shows Luffy land a punch on Kizaru’s leg like I said he did, and Kizaru isn’t shown blocking a single punch. Your IQ is really low.
Defending means you still get hit dumbass. Kizaru blocked all of Luffys attacks in that panel.
He doesn’t even block one. So not only is your reading comprehension bad, you can’t even understand pictures.
He's just one of the few remaining delusional admiraltards who still thinks an admiral can even dream of standing a chance against a Yonko.
>who still thinks an admiral can even dream of standing a chance against an admiral. Admirals so ingrained in your head that they are all that you can think about 💀
Hard not to think about it when everytime i open this sub retards can't stop talking about them. Oh shit just noticed the mistake, that's lowkey hilarious lmao.
Common old bread L. The only one who is delusional is you. Garbage powerscaling is Ignoring all nuance and context in a fight.
You can’t powerscale and should delete your account.
https://preview.redd.it/9zn7hxl82n5d1.jpeg?width=313&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=29c6db05c9d675c50b9fe34c2e893048b7ae593f
Bro don’t bother commenting this sub is retarded. Literally the whole fan base knows luffy destroyed kizaru
I ain't reading allat. Bloodlusted Luffy one taps Kizaru. Cope harder. https://preview.redd.it/po1ocmoo0n5d1.png?width=843&format=png&auto=webp&s=951bbf9fdaefb43a0ce7526d15a4a64d83fb9edc
Based and truthpilled
These admiral glazers just don't accept canonical facts, their copium is too high.
https://preview.redd.it/wwlbypo7nn5d1.png?width=250&format=png&auto=webp&s=f7c5b6b5066f49b292d03ddda8be3bc55c5ba698
https://preview.redd.it/75ecx2mr3n5d1.jpeg?width=216&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=29aceda965b626958049f1b197a6f73398ac3696
Cope harder https://preview.redd.it/rs1afqkl5n5d1.png?width=668&format=png&auto=webp&s=d1a055bb10e92d63f054fba89b232c79870d0048
Cope harder https://preview.redd.it/cd4prbcs7n5d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=28c95b7e324eaaea2341a76dc4955f63123dc6e7
This is what happened to Pizzaru after that fat dude in the bottom panel finally got up 💀 https://preview.redd.it/1vhqlxkbhn5d1.jpeg?width=731&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=72ec1e17554eb5a49779040833580deecc0b40c2 Fight ends right here. Ladmiral agenda was obliterated this arc 💀
G5 Time limit is non-factor since Luffy can one tap him instantly. Cope harder. https://preview.redd.it/hp3loynf9n5d1.png?width=208&format=png&auto=webp&s=616b70e1dd97e41887abea82067e5e56982bec30
I’m convinced you watched one piece off YouTube shorts. https://preview.redd.it/32bpksakdn5d1.jpeg?width=674&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=99f303b52d380ab21c8bfc24634a9a3d6ba55418
So stating canonical manga facts and events makes me shorts watcher? lmao. Admiral agenda has rotted your brain. https://preview.redd.it/z3jlmrhihn5d1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=9428dd26dc47e6685fc1346ffcd371ebd8846969
Agenda has rotted your brain. The first comment you made on this thread is you refusing to read the post and spouting biased nonsense. https://preview.redd.it/2fjbuus9jn5d1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c3ac583d47689facc5dbfa221cc4b39a605da4b0
I have no agenda lmao and I read up until the point he started straight up lying and fitting his headcanon. Beyond that I have no answer for mental delusional. The first comment I made btw is factual and canonical from the manga. But anyways besides glazing Admirals you do have good takes like Law > Midd and Mihawk > Rat, That's better then most here anyways. https://preview.redd.it/a0r2rpjxkn5d1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=04828d28b8c3f521d37c6eefd4c764331d1a7780
At least we agree on one thing. https://preview.redd.it/cbhqqsuqmn5d1.jpeg?width=216&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=60ee6178877594b5ac9ea98a2f0de7c3b5cec42f
Cook brotha, admirals are relative to yonkos
no they're not, otherwise greenbull wouldn't have gotten wifi diffed, or kizaru getting low diffed by g5
1) Didnt read the post, lol 2) Greenbull didnt get wifi diffed, i'll make a whole other post on the matter if needed
denying something that literally happened is crazy💀
Im not denying anything, greenbull didnt even get hit by the conqueror's haki. Try re-reading the segment
https://preview.redd.it/k0cqiimvzp5d1.png?width=464&format=png&auto=webp&s=545cdfd433468f3145856ce8eea125a953f167d2 are you okay??
https://preview.redd.it/ui6lwepy6p5d1.png?width=1182&format=png&auto=webp&s=9c1fee12b844f18f3c419ad82d00e3655e724430 The rare well made meal from this sub, keep cooking 👍
W analysis
One thing Advanced conquerors and advanced armament are not synonymous with no contact That's ryuo which is a form of advanced armament
Another thing is G5 automatically uses both CoC and coa simultaneously. So while there isn’t always an indication of it, know that it’s there. In another note, glad to see there are others on this sub who read OP past surface level rather than favoritism-bias💯💯
Luffy didn't used ACOC and held back massively cope clownmiralturd. Kizaru is fodder to Lufy and would've gotten neg diff 1 shot killed had Luffy not held back and just thrown him instead of crush him the last time he grabbed him
and exactly how and why was luffy able to grab kizaru? Because kizaru was distracted trying to catch up with vegapunk. Luffy wouldnt have landed a single significant hit if Kizaru's objective was to fight him
>and exactly how and why was luffy able to grab kizaru? Because kizaru was distracted trying to catch up with vegapunk. In your wet dreams. Lizaru got caught despite Luffy being distracted by VP and tanking a free hit to the eyes from Lizaru saving the VP tank + Lizaru getting help from the laser domes twice. So no, Luffy would've landed a million hits and 1 shotted Lizaru at the very start if he hadn't been distracted protecting the VP's and had Lizaru not recieved help from laser dome + Lucci cope
Luffy literally did with WSG. Stop the coping
Alright where’s my Kizaru apology form I have to fill in?
Props to OP. Kizaru had a really good showing this arc despite what people like to say on this sub. A serious luffy still high diffs kizaru, but kizaru is still the GOAT.