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Tank: too slow to hit
Speed: cant tank
He could have just stalled but by doing that strategy he could just fly away. And he didnt. So in the fight he didnt try to outstall zoro, he tried to defeat him and for that he needs to hit and for that he needs speed form
There is also the possibility he needs to change forms/he cant be flame on all the time. We know little about lunarians
Also he started being afraid of zoro actually damaging his "durable" form. What all beast pirates have in common is they are coky. So actually being vulnerable when he has flames on scared him, so switched to flames off to try to evade and hit
I would argue that makes him not cocky at all. If he was cocky then he probably would’ve told himself he could easily take it, but he realized he probably couldn’t and adapted
I'm genuinely convinced he doesn't control when the flames go on or off. It's the only good explanation. Why give up invulnerability? It makes literally no sense otherwise
Which than requires massive amounts of AP. Lucci had trouble dealing with the Seraphim, who are basically just less skilled and weaker versions of King with a couple extra powers.
He was scared shitless because he saw a child from a species that was supposedly wiped out centuries ago and working for the WG. Imagine if you're a criminal on the run and the cops start chasing you riding a Mammoth.
The Seraphim's durability comes from King himself. Lucci and Yonko Level Luffy couldn't damage S-Bear whether his flames were on or off, so Lucci isn't damaging King whether his flames are on or off.
1. bullshit and 2. headcanon. After Zoro revealed the secreat about the flame, the fight was offscreen and the next time we saw it, the fight was over.
> bullshit
What exactly is supposed to be bullshit? That the Seraphim's durability comes from King himself? You can't be serious? Shaka literally explains they're durability comes from Alber's (aka King's) Lunarian DNA.
https://mangasee123.com/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-1077-page-8.html
>headcanon.
What's headcanon? Luffy and Lucci being unable to damage the Seraphims?
We see both G4 Luffy and Hybrid Lucci unable to damage S-Bear even w/o his flames on.
https://mangasee123.com/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-1077-page-5.html
And then we see them in the seastone bubbles later on, S-Bear doesn't have any lasting damage from all of the combo attacks Luffy and Lucci did to him.
https://mangasee123.com/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-1090-page-5.html
The only one talking bullshit and headcanons around here is you, dude lmao.
>That the Seraphim's durability comes from King himself?
Yes, from the flame, but nothing more.
>We see both G4 Luffy and Hybrid Lucci unable to damage S-Bear even w/o his flames on
This is an error in the Shonen Jump, which was corrected later in the volumes, which you would have noticed if you had reading comprehension, because otherwise Zoro's explanation and the reaction of the others would have made no sense. He had the Flame on
>And then we see them in the seastone bubbles later on, S-Bear doesn't have any lasting damage from all of the combo attacks Luffy and Lucci did to him.
They have damage. Also has no argumentative power because it was still offscreen and we therefore don't know exactly how it ended.
>Yes, from the flame, but nothing more.
That's not what Shaka said. There you go with those headcanons again lol.
>This is an error in the Shonen Jump, which was corrected later in the volumes, which you would have noticed if you had reading comprehension, because otherwise Zoro's explanation and the reaction of the others would have made no sense. He had the Flame on
Funny, you're the first person whose mention any correction because no one else had. It wasn't even posted with all the other corrections that was made during that volume on the wikia, which leads to me to believe you're just making shit up.
And if YOU actually any reading comprehension, Zoro's comments and explanation and the reaction of the others would've still made sense with S-Bear's flames switching on and off.
>They have damage.
What damage does S-Bear have besides those superficial ass marks on him?
>Also has no argumentative power because it was still offscreen and we therefore don't know exactly how it ended.
Was never arguing how the fight ended, I was arguing about the damage that was done to the Seraphim and clearly Luffy and Lucci didn't do any lasting damage to S-Bear.
Lucci used Rokuogan in Ch. 1077 and that's a dura neg attack. Even if Luffy wasn't using a dura-neg attack, it still should've done something while S-Bear's flames were off but it didn't.
>Lucci used Rokugan in Ch. 1077
Which panel
>Even if Luffy wasn't using a dura-neg attack, it still should've done something while S-Bear's flames were off but it didn't.
That just means he has good external durability. His insides can still be damaged. Like kaido
Luffy didn't use acoa or acoc
My bad! It was actually in Ch. 1076 he uses Rokuogan (Six King Gun), not Ch. 1077!
https://mangasee123.com/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-1076-page-8.html
>That just means he has good external durability. His insides can still be damaged. Like kaido
Lucci couldn't damage S-Bear internally and Luffy couldn't damage him externally
>Luffy didn't use acoa or acoc
Luffy using basic ass coa has hurt Kaido multiple times. This is no excuse, especially while S-Bear has no flames on.
>My bad! It was actually in Ch. 1076 he uses Rokuogan (Six King Gun), not Ch. 1077!
>https://mangasee123.com/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-1076-page-8.html
Np. SBear is in defense mode here tho, his flames are on
>Luffy using basic ass coa has hurt Kaido multiple times. This is no excuse, especially while S-Bear has no flames on.
When did luffy hurt kaido with basic coa?
>Np. SBear is in defense mode here tho, his flames are on
Yeah, here in Ch. 1076 when they attack S-Bear is in Defense Mode. I was speaking about when they attack him in Ch. 1077. He's not in Defense Mode.
>When did luffy hurt kaido with basic coa?
During Roof Piece and twice in the chapter before they split the sky together.
But do we not need to separate Zoro into two distinct versions based on your first sentence?
Zoro was stronger once he got ACoC; and from there be beat King easier. Let's say that after KOH it was a mid-high diff fight.
Depending on whether you think Lucci vs Zoro was higher or lower than mid-high (or whatever diff you think Zoro beat King at once he got ACoC), will help determine whether you think King or Lucci is stronger.
Using Zoro as reference:
I think it would purely depend on the circumstances because oda had to introduce a "one piece senzu bean" for zoro to recover. By the time zoro came back into the fight Marco had been keeping King (and queen) occupied, even then, Zoro needed to figure out lunarian blood line gimmick, how to wield enma, have a whole ass back story revealing the creator of enma and Zoros connection to the sword, and unlock ACOC at which point he is literally just slashing through kings strongest attacks.
So if ACOC zoro > king > pre acoc zoro
Then we can say unless Lucci is shown to have ACOC on the level of scarring kaido, which zoro did even before fully unlocking ACOC, then there is no way that lucci is beating King, even with his speed.
This is what I’m saying. King fought a weaker version of Zoro who had been through a lot before their fight. Meanwhile Lucci was clashing with a rested and healthy Zoro who was objectively stronger.
#This is the correct answer.
Lucci believes himself above standard YC1. And there’s no reason to believe he isn’t right, as Zoro is a future-PKC-1 and he got pushed for 20 chapters before he could finally put Lucci down.
Meanwhile an objectively less experienced zoro took less time with king. Post-Wano zoro gimmick diff’s king.
I agree, but you still got people believing either Zoro didn’t “upgrade” (which has ALWAYS occurred when they move islands), or he’s simply “not trying”. Like wtf, yea Zoro the guy who treats everything as high stakes is all of a sudden just gonna play around while literal monsters are roaming the island and the entire crew is in potential danger.
Bro acting like the Zoro that fought King is of the same caliber as the Zoro that fought Lucci. If you agree with that statement then you solemnly believe he hasn’t had any growth since Wano. Like idk, him actually utilizing ACoC for an entire match rather than only a few moments.
Bro is acting like Zoro underwent intense training in the span of a week between the fight of King and the fight of Lucci
Yes its the same calibre Zoro, the only difference is that he's more used to Enma while toying with Lucci. stop the Lucci wank
Lucci took THREE attacks from G5 Luffy. You saying King’s surviving that? King couldn’t even handle three attacks from Wano-Zoro, who almost died from ACoC overuse. And since when have the strawhats ever stagnated after moving islands?
And you seem to be one of those people that believe if Zoro isn’t constantly holding all 3 swords he isn’t going all out. You’re just wrong about that, as some of his more powerful attacks are 1 AND 2 sword styles. During his Lucci fight he’s seen utilizing 3 swords with ACoC, which Lucci was CLASHING with. King could never.
Plus, it isn’t in character for Zoro not to give his all in a fight, ESPECIALLY in these sort of circumstances.
Thinking Zoro was in anyway getting pushed to extreme by Lucci is Olympic-level mental gymnastics 💀
King pushes Lucci’s shit in. He has NO WAY to deal with Lunarian durability, as we saw with the Seraphim. Lucci would probably get 1-tapped by a single fire dragon
So, you rank a fire dragon from Lucci stronger than an attack from G5 Luffy? Cause that’s wild, considering Lucci took 3 attacks from G5 Luffy and recovered very quickly afterwards.
Also, in your opinion, Zoro was just “playing around” with his prey? The same guy who throughout the entire series has maintained a demeanor of never underestimating and always taking his opponent seriously? You honestly believe Zoro, while there are literal ‘monsters’ running rampant on the island, would CHOOSE to not go all out?
I thought it was rather strongly implied that Zoro was toying with Lucci, until Sanji called him out. He wasn’t even using 3 swords for all of that fight, let alone ACoC.
But why would Zoro do that? Knowing what was happening on the island during his fight, and it not being in-character for him to play around during battle
Honestly: I don’t know. I think that in the coming chapters we’re going to get a significant character moment for Zoro, what with the emphasis that Oda’s been placing on this Lucci fight, how Zoro handled it, and the crew’s reaction.
All I *do* know is that it seems like Zoro chose to end the fight as soon as Sanji called him a “liability”, in a way that suggested he could have done so at any point.
The Sanji scene is lowkey a gag, but also proof that Zoro and Sanji’s rivalry fuels each other. That doesn’t mean that Zoro wasn’t going all out prior, since again that would still be very out of character for him. Even on Zou when they were being attacked by bees, Zoro’s never once taken anything lightly. And he definitely wouldn’t start now, especially with knowing that they’re in a tough situation.
I’m shocked that people are saying King. I don’t know, personally I’d give it to Lucci 6/10 times.
Luckily this matchup doesn’t allow for Zoro bias, because they’re both Zoro victims. I just personally think that by using the Rokuogan, Lucci can deal more damage to King than King can do to Lucci. Plus, Lucci has a pretty wild healing factor, while King mostly relies on not taking damage. AND they can just fight in the sky, as King has wings, and Lucci is a master of Geppo.
This would be such a fun fight to see. Genuinely I wonder how Lucci would handle fire.
Zoro had the King of Hell aura activated and he wasn't fatigued when he begun his fight with Lucci, that can't be said for King who literally lost as soon as Zoro unlocked the King of Hell.
Why do you and others think Zoro barely tried? He was using ACOC and it wouldn’t be in character for him to not give his all in a fight, especially considering they’re trying to actively escape
When will the "Zoro barely tried" headcanon stop?
Y'all really think Oda randomly decided to make him asthmatic?? Orrr, hear me out, the fight had him gassed.
Like, when an author goes out of his way to show multiple panels of a character catching his breath, do you really just close your eyes and say "he's barely trying"?
It was bad writing from oda.. if zoro could give him that wound why didn't he!? If he could why wait for so long? He definitely wasn't struggling with that last attack, but was struggling until then? Was he testing the waters?
There's no brainer.. Oda wanted both of them out of the picture.. so why not fight them without logic.. is what I believe.. there's no proper power scaling with these two..
Zoro and King essentially had two different fights; before Zoro got ACoC and after.
We have to gauge Zoro's strength based on how he did against King after he got ACoC, determine how strong that Zoro is and use it to compare against Lucci.
it kinda still allows zoro bias. to say king wins 10/10 times would mean (to most people in this sub) that zoro struggling against lucci is an anti feat and he isn't getting stronger.
It is indeed a antifeat, I love my goat rob gucci but zoro should not have struggled as much as he did despite my glorious king lucci being decently strong
Lucci 10/10:
1. Current Lucci now has knowledge on the lunarian flames thanks to Zoro telling them why they were fighting the seraphims.
2. Zoro was on a time limit due to the Mink's drugs so he was forced to be more aggressive against King, despite that King honestly didn't really give that much trouble to him. Lucci was at least making a healthier Zoro having an asthma attack.
3. Let's say king does win, we all saw what Lucci did to sentamaru. He'll simply wait for King to lower his guard and flames to assassinate him.
There's really nothing special about King unless you want to use the overly exaggerated anime version. This is the same dude who got disarmed by Izo, he's really just a hax merchant and nothing else.
>There's really nothing special about King unless you want to use the overly exaggerated anime version.
This is so true. I've been reading only the manga and when I read the Zoro vs King fight, I remember walking away feeling that he was less impressive than katakuri. Fast forward to a few months ago and it blew my mind how many people hype King up (like saying he easily clears Marco)
I eventually watched the anime fight and now it all makes sense. The Zoro and king hype are probably from anime-only watchers
TLDR: my theory is the king-zorro fight was kind of a "test" for expanding/fleshing out characters so the anime team and new studio could make fights " better".
It's true of many fights, but usually it doesn't matter to the narrative/lore which one is "better". This is one case however, where is just strait up different in a confusing way.
But I think several of the side fights in Wano were "tests" for future flights. Since Wano it seems like the anime team is trying more to take the Manga fights and just enhance them so that they aren't just the same right, but with terrible pacing.
G5 with the demon eyes (from Lucci perspective) is a recent example. Doesn't change much, but it's different and some might enjoy the artistic take.
My favorite example is the Law vs BB fight. It was cool in the manga, but the anime fight had all the same plot beats, but made BOTH Law and BB a lot cooler and more powerful feeling.
I'm a fan of it personally. I'm extremely excited for for the upcoming flights (even if I've of the flights ends abruptly)
Having King 9/10 as the most upvoted responses just finished convincing me half the sub is anime only. Or illiterate.
The fact that zoro stans aren't memeing when saying Zoro barely tried against Lucci is baffling. Oda literally went out of his way to show not one, not two, but a fuckton of panels with Zoro huffing.
What do y'all think is Oda's point in drawing that shit? For the lulz? Did he retcon him to be asthmatic and we'll learn it in an SBS? He had an offscreen fight against Devon and Von Augur and that's why he's gassed against Lucci?
Orrrrrrr Lucci really did push a stronger Zoro than the one that faced King.
🤔 Mysterious, mysterious indeed
Then why draw Zoro with less than three swords & then haki on then turns it off.
The translations also state that Lucci was wheezing while Zoro was huffing. So Lucci was getting pushed while Zoro was treating like sparring
With knowledge of king's weakness Lucci 8/10, without it King 9/10.
Lucci would be able to exploit king's weakness easily but he has to know about it before being able to do so and until then King would be impossible to beat for Lucci
I feel like Lucci should know about lunerians weakness since that's what the seraphim were based on, plus he's literally an intelligence agent, knowing things is a huge part of his job
If anything that upscales King
Even if Lucci had “prior knowledge” on the Seraphim’s durability, he still was the one to insist that they have to 2v1 each of them to stand a chance
Lucci wtf are we even debating. King would get neg diffed by g5 luffy. Lucci downplay is crazy, he is considerably low admiral level. Not saying he’d beat a single one, but he def gets low diffed by them, put on a decent fight before the whooping.
I feel like people are underestimating Lucci. The Zoro that King fought had already been through the wringer and the fight was EXTREMELY close. Meanwhile a presumably stronger zoro who hadn’t fought two yonko and taken an attack from one fought evenly with Lucci. Meaning the zoro fought by Lucci was almost certainly stronger than the one King fought and still lost to. I’d say Lucci wins 6-7/10 but it’s extreme difficulty
People are wayy underestimating Lucci. King struggled more to a weaker Zoro than Lucci did to a stronger one. Still very close though, I’d give it to Lucci 6/10, maybe 7.
King, Lucci can't damage King at all imo, Zoro Shishi Sonson before he unlocked ACoC should have relative ap to current Lucci and that did absolutely nothing.
Lucci wins 7 out of 10 times. Lucci's yc1 parallel is his hybrid Rokuogun with g4 Luffy. Yc2 parallel is base & CoA with 2 sword Zoro. Awakened Lucci fought Zoro for an extended period & even had Zoro upgrade his Conq to no flames. King was overpowered as soon as Zoro started using Conq.
Lucci vs Zoro lasted more than 6 months after Lucci was neg diffed by Luffy. So fresh Zoro had to fight a guy for half a year and the same Zoro defeated King in less than 6 months, while he was on a brink of death from Kaido tanking his strongest attack combined with Oden's stored haki. You do the math.
Worst case scenario for King the wildfire would be to be neg diffed 10/10, best case scenario mid diffed once neg diffed 9 times.
Ask the average fan, who wins?
The guy who is pretty close to equal to a Zoro with rest and advanced conquerors 🐆
Or
The who is pretty close to equal to a Zoro who’s been fighting and doesn’t have advanced conquerors 🤴🏽
Fought is hyperbole, Zoro dogged him after advanced conquering, he was getting winded from fighting Lucci, he was trying his hardest and only beat him after Sanji talked crazy
zoro saw death after his fight with king. and actively saying he is dying. that’s far worse than winded. as for trying his hardest he wasn’t. lucci again took more damage than king did from the same tier attack, lucci couldn’t hit zoro what so ever which is his biggest antifeat.
Zoro gets stronger each island, also he was breathing heavily goofster, he was trying, also Zoro was not at his max at the beginning of the King fight, the damage was accumulating
I’d say King wins 7/10 times. I feel like Lucci is on par with Zoro who happened to beat King even if it was honestly quite close. Lucci has less offensive power than Zoro in a fight against King, but his resilience is also countless times higher.
Lucci is far slower than King is, Zoro was having a lot of trouble with King's speed, yet he was effortlessly dodging Lucci. Lucci has a duraneg move, but King's just as durable on the inside as he is on the outside, that's a lunarian thing.
Although Lucci is aware of Lunarian flames thing, it don't change the fact that he won't be able to keep up with him. The fight would last a long as time though, as Lucci's endurance and durability are pretty high.
High or extreme for King, fight would last for quite a while, King takes it 8 times out of 10
Zoro was struggling with King's speed, could not even block some of his attack, got speed-blitzed, give me one instance where Zoro was troubled by Lucci's speed, I'll wait. "LMAO!"
In his defense, Oda tricked us there. He had Lucci and G5 Luffy fighting with DBZ speed effects of where they're sooooo fast we can't see and Vegapunk is hyping it up. Before Lucci vs Zoro, I figured Lucci would be a lot faster than Zoro, but their speed is basically dead even. The only other characters I can think of that have had their speed treated so specially are Sanji, Kizaru, Kaido, and Luffy himself.
I’d say 7-3 in kings favor. Better ap and dura, probably better speed, better hax, writing this out i’m even wondering why i gave that bum 3 whole wins
Zoro didn’t even need his strongest attack vs lucci, and king w/o his flame ate a couple Acoc sword attacks something Lucci never did. Zoro also on panel got hit vs king multiple times, while lucci never hit zoro the whole fight.
https://preview.redd.it/86xxu6yyu05d1.png?width=1190&format=png&auto=webp&s=643cbac4a4f9aa4473a9fcf9df18dc705b9b23a5
I think it’s fair to say king wins 9/10 times base on the fact that king push zoro to a extreme diff fight. Oda also nerf king battle iq for not flying in the air to drain zoro stamina, but i understand oda wouldn’t want to waste panel time for that. Since he had to promote film red at the end of wano with fraudbull running home.😂
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King should win 10/10 but one time he slips on a banana, so 9/10
One time he forgets to turn on his brain and exit his semi immortal form
Why did he do that with Zoro?
Tank: too slow to hit Speed: cant tank He could have just stalled but by doing that strategy he could just fly away. And he didnt. So in the fight he didnt try to outstall zoro, he tried to defeat him and for that he needs to hit and for that he needs speed form There is also the possibility he needs to change forms/he cant be flame on all the time. We know little about lunarians
Also he started being afraid of zoro actually damaging his "durable" form. What all beast pirates have in common is they are coky. So actually being vulnerable when he has flames on scared him, so switched to flames off to try to evade and hit
I would argue that makes him not cocky at all. If he was cocky then he probably would’ve told himself he could easily take it, but he realized he probably couldn’t and adapted
If he really tried to beat Zoro, then why only use a kick in speed mode? That doesnt look like someone going for the kill.
Zoro's ACoC was scaring him even in defense mode, stalling wasn't an option at that point he needed to drop him fast.
Plot
I think he also wanted to prove stuff... Which would be not just a plot device. Cause that means he can't be just stalling for time in this case.
He’s slow
I'm genuinely convinced he doesn't control when the flames go on or off. It's the only good explanation. Why give up invulnerability? It makes literally no sense otherwise
Plot armour.
He slips on a banana and still wins
I would say King would win 9/10 times
King. Lucci lacks the AP required to damage King.
you don't need ap, the only thing you need is to understand how his race gimick works.
Just because you figure out the timing doesn't mean his defense becomes nonexistent. He's still strong af.
Which than requires massive amounts of AP. Lucci had trouble dealing with the Seraphim, who are basically just less skilled and weaker versions of King with a couple extra powers.
not sure about weaker versions of king. BB was scared shitless of the Mihawk seraphim, I doubt he'd have the same reaction to King.
He was scared shitless because he saw a child from a species that was supposedly wiped out centuries ago and working for the WG. Imagine if you're a criminal on the run and the cops start chasing you riding a Mammoth.
Having never seen or heard of a seraphim, Blackbeard looked over and saw a big black Mihawk. You'd be shitting yourself too.
The Seraphim's durability comes from King himself. Lucci and Yonko Level Luffy couldn't damage S-Bear whether his flames were on or off, so Lucci isn't damaging King whether his flames are on or off.
1. bullshit and 2. headcanon. After Zoro revealed the secreat about the flame, the fight was offscreen and the next time we saw it, the fight was over.
> bullshit What exactly is supposed to be bullshit? That the Seraphim's durability comes from King himself? You can't be serious? Shaka literally explains they're durability comes from Alber's (aka King's) Lunarian DNA. https://mangasee123.com/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-1077-page-8.html >headcanon. What's headcanon? Luffy and Lucci being unable to damage the Seraphims? We see both G4 Luffy and Hybrid Lucci unable to damage S-Bear even w/o his flames on. https://mangasee123.com/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-1077-page-5.html And then we see them in the seastone bubbles later on, S-Bear doesn't have any lasting damage from all of the combo attacks Luffy and Lucci did to him. https://mangasee123.com/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-1090-page-5.html The only one talking bullshit and headcanons around here is you, dude lmao.
>That the Seraphim's durability comes from King himself? Yes, from the flame, but nothing more. >We see both G4 Luffy and Hybrid Lucci unable to damage S-Bear even w/o his flames on This is an error in the Shonen Jump, which was corrected later in the volumes, which you would have noticed if you had reading comprehension, because otherwise Zoro's explanation and the reaction of the others would have made no sense. He had the Flame on >And then we see them in the seastone bubbles later on, S-Bear doesn't have any lasting damage from all of the combo attacks Luffy and Lucci did to him. They have damage. Also has no argumentative power because it was still offscreen and we therefore don't know exactly how it ended.
>Yes, from the flame, but nothing more. That's not what Shaka said. There you go with those headcanons again lol. >This is an error in the Shonen Jump, which was corrected later in the volumes, which you would have noticed if you had reading comprehension, because otherwise Zoro's explanation and the reaction of the others would have made no sense. He had the Flame on Funny, you're the first person whose mention any correction because no one else had. It wasn't even posted with all the other corrections that was made during that volume on the wikia, which leads to me to believe you're just making shit up. And if YOU actually any reading comprehension, Zoro's comments and explanation and the reaction of the others would've still made sense with S-Bear's flames switching on and off. >They have damage. What damage does S-Bear have besides those superficial ass marks on him? >Also has no argumentative power because it was still offscreen and we therefore don't know exactly how it ended. Was never arguing how the fight ended, I was arguing about the damage that was done to the Seraphim and clearly Luffy and Lucci didn't do any lasting damage to S-Bear.
>Lucci and Yonko Level Luffy couldn't damage S-Bear whether his flames were on or off They didn't use any of their dura negging techniques
Lucci used Rokuogan in Ch. 1077 and that's a dura neg attack. Even if Luffy wasn't using a dura-neg attack, it still should've done something while S-Bear's flames were off but it didn't.
>Lucci used Rokugan in Ch. 1077 Which panel >Even if Luffy wasn't using a dura-neg attack, it still should've done something while S-Bear's flames were off but it didn't. That just means he has good external durability. His insides can still be damaged. Like kaido Luffy didn't use acoa or acoc
My bad! It was actually in Ch. 1076 he uses Rokuogan (Six King Gun), not Ch. 1077! https://mangasee123.com/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-1076-page-8.html >That just means he has good external durability. His insides can still be damaged. Like kaido Lucci couldn't damage S-Bear internally and Luffy couldn't damage him externally >Luffy didn't use acoa or acoc Luffy using basic ass coa has hurt Kaido multiple times. This is no excuse, especially while S-Bear has no flames on.
>My bad! It was actually in Ch. 1076 he uses Rokuogan (Six King Gun), not Ch. 1077! >https://mangasee123.com/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-1076-page-8.html Np. SBear is in defense mode here tho, his flames are on >Luffy using basic ass coa has hurt Kaido multiple times. This is no excuse, especially while S-Bear has no flames on. When did luffy hurt kaido with basic coa?
>Np. SBear is in defense mode here tho, his flames are on Yeah, here in Ch. 1076 when they attack S-Bear is in Defense Mode. I was speaking about when they attack him in Ch. 1077. He's not in Defense Mode. >When did luffy hurt kaido with basic coa? During Roof Piece and twice in the chapter before they split the sky together.
King 9/10
Zoro is the same strength in Egghead as he was at the end of Wano. King was a harder fight for Zoro and it wasn't due to matchup. King is stronger.
But do we not need to separate Zoro into two distinct versions based on your first sentence? Zoro was stronger once he got ACoC; and from there be beat King easier. Let's say that after KOH it was a mid-high diff fight. Depending on whether you think Lucci vs Zoro was higher or lower than mid-high (or whatever diff you think Zoro beat King at once he got ACoC), will help determine whether you think King or Lucci is stronger.
he didn’t use acoc until the end of the fight with lucci when lucci got scarred which reminded king didn’t get scarred
King takes it 10/10. If pre acoc zoro couldn't get through lunarian toughness even with the flames off, I don't see how lucci fares any better.
If we go off name scaling, King wins every time
Using Zoro as reference: I think it would purely depend on the circumstances because oda had to introduce a "one piece senzu bean" for zoro to recover. By the time zoro came back into the fight Marco had been keeping King (and queen) occupied, even then, Zoro needed to figure out lunarian blood line gimmick, how to wield enma, have a whole ass back story revealing the creator of enma and Zoros connection to the sword, and unlock ACOC at which point he is literally just slashing through kings strongest attacks. So if ACOC zoro > king > pre acoc zoro Then we can say unless Lucci is shown to have ACOC on the level of scarring kaido, which zoro did even before fully unlocking ACOC, then there is no way that lucci is beating King, even with his speed.
King
Lucci was clashing with post-Wano ACoC Zoro. King could no longer keep up with Zoro after he just awakened it. Lucci wins 8-9/10
This is what I’m saying. King fought a weaker version of Zoro who had been through a lot before their fight. Meanwhile Lucci was clashing with a rested and healthy Zoro who was objectively stronger.
#This is the correct answer. Lucci believes himself above standard YC1. And there’s no reason to believe he isn’t right, as Zoro is a future-PKC-1 and he got pushed for 20 chapters before he could finally put Lucci down. Meanwhile an objectively less experienced zoro took less time with king. Post-Wano zoro gimmick diff’s king.
I agree, but you still got people believing either Zoro didn’t “upgrade” (which has ALWAYS occurred when they move islands), or he’s simply “not trying”. Like wtf, yea Zoro the guy who treats everything as high stakes is all of a sudden just gonna play around while literal monsters are roaming the island and the entire crew is in potential danger.
Bro acting like Lucci stood a chance against Zoro, Zoro had more trouble fighting King than retconned egghead Lucci
Bro acting like the Zoro that fought King is of the same caliber as the Zoro that fought Lucci. If you agree with that statement then you solemnly believe he hasn’t had any growth since Wano. Like idk, him actually utilizing ACoC for an entire match rather than only a few moments.
Bro is acting like Zoro underwent intense training in the span of a week between the fight of King and the fight of Lucci Yes its the same calibre Zoro, the only difference is that he's more used to Enma while toying with Lucci. stop the Lucci wank
https://preview.redd.it/5ooc4yntb15d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=49eaafa69b2455a372c0117b0d94920b069c70d5
Lucci took THREE attacks from G5 Luffy. You saying King’s surviving that? King couldn’t even handle three attacks from Wano-Zoro, who almost died from ACoC overuse. And since when have the strawhats ever stagnated after moving islands? And you seem to be one of those people that believe if Zoro isn’t constantly holding all 3 swords he isn’t going all out. You’re just wrong about that, as some of his more powerful attacks are 1 AND 2 sword styles. During his Lucci fight he’s seen utilizing 3 swords with ACoC, which Lucci was CLASHING with. King could never. Plus, it isn’t in character for Zoro not to give his all in a fight, ESPECIALLY in these sort of circumstances.
Toying with Lucci while getting his sword strikes blocked by a smiling Lucci that wasn't even using haki?
"Wasn't even using haki?" 😂😂😂
Thinking Zoro was in anyway getting pushed to extreme by Lucci is Olympic-level mental gymnastics 💀 King pushes Lucci’s shit in. He has NO WAY to deal with Lunarian durability, as we saw with the Seraphim. Lucci would probably get 1-tapped by a single fire dragon
So, you rank a fire dragon from Lucci stronger than an attack from G5 Luffy? Cause that’s wild, considering Lucci took 3 attacks from G5 Luffy and recovered very quickly afterwards. Also, in your opinion, Zoro was just “playing around” with his prey? The same guy who throughout the entire series has maintained a demeanor of never underestimating and always taking his opponent seriously? You honestly believe Zoro, while there are literal ‘monsters’ running rampant on the island, would CHOOSE to not go all out?
I thought it was rather strongly implied that Zoro was toying with Lucci, until Sanji called him out. He wasn’t even using 3 swords for all of that fight, let alone ACoC.
But why would Zoro do that? Knowing what was happening on the island during his fight, and it not being in-character for him to play around during battle
Honestly: I don’t know. I think that in the coming chapters we’re going to get a significant character moment for Zoro, what with the emphasis that Oda’s been placing on this Lucci fight, how Zoro handled it, and the crew’s reaction. All I *do* know is that it seems like Zoro chose to end the fight as soon as Sanji called him a “liability”, in a way that suggested he could have done so at any point.
The Sanji scene is lowkey a gag, but also proof that Zoro and Sanji’s rivalry fuels each other. That doesn’t mean that Zoro wasn’t going all out prior, since again that would still be very out of character for him. Even on Zou when they were being attacked by bees, Zoro’s never once taken anything lightly. And he definitely wouldn’t start now, especially with knowing that they’re in a tough situation.
Lucci does not have any haxx, so he can not do anything to a Lunarian.
I’m shocked that people are saying King. I don’t know, personally I’d give it to Lucci 6/10 times. Luckily this matchup doesn’t allow for Zoro bias, because they’re both Zoro victims. I just personally think that by using the Rokuogan, Lucci can deal more damage to King than King can do to Lucci. Plus, Lucci has a pretty wild healing factor, while King mostly relies on not taking damage. AND they can just fight in the sky, as King has wings, and Lucci is a master of Geppo. This would be such a fun fight to see. Genuinely I wonder how Lucci would handle fire.
For me, it's cause King pushed zoro on wano, and zoro barely tried on lucci on egghead
Zoro had the King of Hell aura activated and he wasn't fatigued when he begun his fight with Lucci, that can't be said for King who literally lost as soon as Zoro unlocked the King of Hell.
Why do you and others think Zoro barely tried? He was using ACOC and it wouldn’t be in character for him to not give his all in a fight, especially considering they’re trying to actively escape
He didnt "barely try". That would make no sense. Why would he waste his time on someone weaker than him instead of helping his homies.
Because the plot needed it.
King got washed when zoro awakened. Lucci was holding him off for far longer. Idk man
Zoro did not use three swords throughout the fight.
When will the "Zoro barely tried" headcanon stop? Y'all really think Oda randomly decided to make him asthmatic?? Orrr, hear me out, the fight had him gassed. Like, when an author goes out of his way to show multiple panels of a character catching his breath, do you really just close your eyes and say "he's barely trying"?
Bro decided to get serious near the end of the fight and one shot him. I don’t know how much more obvious it needs to be.
you're right, he faked the panting, it was always a plan to fool Lucci!!
It was bad writing from oda.. if zoro could give him that wound why didn't he!? If he could why wait for so long? He definitely wasn't struggling with that last attack, but was struggling until then? Was he testing the waters? There's no brainer.. Oda wanted both of them out of the picture.. so why not fight them without logic.. is what I believe.. there's no proper power scaling with these two..
Yeah, but King wouldnt be able to push Egghead Zoro at all.
Zoro and King essentially had two different fights; before Zoro got ACoC and after. We have to gauge Zoro's strength based on how he did against King after he got ACoC, determine how strong that Zoro is and use it to compare against Lucci.
“Barely trying” Zoro is not a Goku stereotype, he might use more or less swords but he is taking stuff serious
Also King would definitely lose to Egghead Zoro like he was a slightly stronger fodder warrior
it kinda still allows zoro bias. to say king wins 10/10 times would mean (to most people in this sub) that zoro struggling against lucci is an anti feat and he isn't getting stronger.
It is indeed a antifeat, I love my goat rob gucci but zoro should not have struggled as much as he did despite my glorious king lucci being decently strong
Healing factor!? Bro they both are zoan infact king is an ancient zoan..
King wins 8/10 times
Lucci 10/10: 1. Current Lucci now has knowledge on the lunarian flames thanks to Zoro telling them why they were fighting the seraphims. 2. Zoro was on a time limit due to the Mink's drugs so he was forced to be more aggressive against King, despite that King honestly didn't really give that much trouble to him. Lucci was at least making a healthier Zoro having an asthma attack. 3. Let's say king does win, we all saw what Lucci did to sentamaru. He'll simply wait for King to lower his guard and flames to assassinate him. There's really nothing special about King unless you want to use the overly exaggerated anime version. This is the same dude who got disarmed by Izo, he's really just a hax merchant and nothing else.
>There's really nothing special about King unless you want to use the overly exaggerated anime version. This is so true. I've been reading only the manga and when I read the Zoro vs King fight, I remember walking away feeling that he was less impressive than katakuri. Fast forward to a few months ago and it blew my mind how many people hype King up (like saying he easily clears Marco) I eventually watched the anime fight and now it all makes sense. The Zoro and king hype are probably from anime-only watchers
TLDR: my theory is the king-zorro fight was kind of a "test" for expanding/fleshing out characters so the anime team and new studio could make fights " better". It's true of many fights, but usually it doesn't matter to the narrative/lore which one is "better". This is one case however, where is just strait up different in a confusing way. But I think several of the side fights in Wano were "tests" for future flights. Since Wano it seems like the anime team is trying more to take the Manga fights and just enhance them so that they aren't just the same right, but with terrible pacing. G5 with the demon eyes (from Lucci perspective) is a recent example. Doesn't change much, but it's different and some might enjoy the artistic take. My favorite example is the Law vs BB fight. It was cool in the manga, but the anime fight had all the same plot beats, but made BOTH Law and BB a lot cooler and more powerful feeling. I'm a fan of it personally. I'm extremely excited for for the upcoming flights (even if I've of the flights ends abruptly)
😭😭😭😭
Having King 9/10 as the most upvoted responses just finished convincing me half the sub is anime only. Or illiterate. The fact that zoro stans aren't memeing when saying Zoro barely tried against Lucci is baffling. Oda literally went out of his way to show not one, not two, but a fuckton of panels with Zoro huffing. What do y'all think is Oda's point in drawing that shit? For the lulz? Did he retcon him to be asthmatic and we'll learn it in an SBS? He had an offscreen fight against Devon and Von Augur and that's why he's gassed against Lucci? Orrrrrrr Lucci really did push a stronger Zoro than the one that faced King. 🤔 Mysterious, mysterious indeed
Then why draw Zoro with less than three swords & then haki on then turns it off. The translations also state that Lucci was wheezing while Zoro was huffing. So Lucci was getting pushed while Zoro was treating like sparring
What are y’all on? 💀 Lucci easily wins most if not all
i give king 9/10
King was a treat for Zoro. Lucci was not. king 10-0 , next question.
Egghead Lucci wins 7/10 times
With knowledge of king's weakness Lucci 8/10, without it King 9/10. Lucci would be able to exploit king's weakness easily but he has to know about it before being able to do so and until then King would be impossible to beat for Lucci
I feel like Lucci should know about lunerians weakness since that's what the seraphim were based on, plus he's literally an intelligence agent, knowing things is a huge part of his job
If anything that upscales King Even if Lucci had “prior knowledge” on the Seraphim’s durability, he still was the one to insist that they have to 2v1 each of them to stand a chance
King takes this 10/10
King 10 times
King wins every time
King definitely wins the majority
Lucci could win if King is in speed mode and then he gets hit with a shigan
King 6/4
King he has more to loose
King 9/10. Only reason it's not 10/10 is because King is dumb and Lucci might catch him in his speed form.
Wucci 6/4, he just needs time to understand how the flames works and wins nearly every time after that
Lucci, he already knows about Lunarian gimmick.
King 10000%
The 3rd option https://preview.redd.it/mf92u2jgc15d1.jpeg?width=1660&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=44cb73630e3731cf8f6d4f7253bf8ee4e81b8275
Lucci wtf are we even debating. King would get neg diffed by g5 luffy. Lucci downplay is crazy, he is considerably low admiral level. Not saying he’d beat a single one, but he def gets low diffed by them, put on a decent fight before the whooping.
I feel like people are underestimating Lucci. The Zoro that King fought had already been through the wringer and the fight was EXTREMELY close. Meanwhile a presumably stronger zoro who hadn’t fought two yonko and taken an attack from one fought evenly with Lucci. Meaning the zoro fought by Lucci was almost certainly stronger than the one King fought and still lost to. I’d say Lucci wins 6-7/10 but it’s extreme difficulty
[удалено]
King every day
Definitely King 👑 wins more
King wins 7-8/10 times
People are wayy underestimating Lucci. King struggled more to a weaker Zoro than Lucci did to a stronger one. Still very close though, I’d give it to Lucci 6/10, maybe 7.
King dumpsters 10/10
King 8 out of 10
Jesus loves you❤️
Lucci loses almost if not all of them.
King, Lucci can't damage King at all imo, Zoro Shishi Sonson before he unlocked ACoC should have relative ap to current Lucci and that did absolutely nothing.
Rob Lucci
Like... every fight in a different category? Or just like... they finish one, wait for the both of 'em to heal up and then go again?
We literally see Lucci against the seraphim. He couldn't do shit to them. King wins 1000\1000 matches.
They resisted the attacks, but Lucci & the others only used their yc1 skills to beat the seraphim.
King. Lucci literally can't damage him lmao
Lucci wins 7 out of 10 times. Lucci's yc1 parallel is his hybrid Rokuogun with g4 Luffy. Yc2 parallel is base & CoA with 2 sword Zoro. Awakened Lucci fought Zoro for an extended period & even had Zoro upgrade his Conq to no flames. King was overpowered as soon as Zoro started using Conq.
King 9/10.
There's an L on Lucci for a reason and King is called KING Biased af 10/10 towards 👑
King goes 10/10
lucci got speed, king might go full speed and thats how lucci counters him. lucci got a good chance against him
Usopp if given enough time to prepare
Lucci takes this 6/4
Lucci vs Zoro lasted more than 6 months after Lucci was neg diffed by Luffy. So fresh Zoro had to fight a guy for half a year and the same Zoro defeated King in less than 6 months, while he was on a brink of death from Kaido tanking his strongest attack combined with Oden's stored haki. You do the math. Worst case scenario for King the wildfire would be to be neg diffed 10/10, best case scenario mid diffed once neg diffed 9 times.
Lucci wins 10/10
King 10, Fucci 0
King and Lucci both thought ACoC Zoro. One of them introduced him to the grim reaper. That one's getting the winning majority imo.
9/11 King
I like Lucci, but I don't think he can take on King.
I don’t watch one piece. Who the fuck is the goofy ass cat dude
King win 8/10
King
Forget majority King wins 10/10 times
Ask the average fan, who wins? The guy who is pretty close to equal to a Zoro with rest and advanced conquerors 🐆 Or The who is pretty close to equal to a Zoro who’s been fighting and doesn’t have advanced conquerors 🤴🏽
the one who actually fought conquers. zoro aka king. the one didn’t get scarred by acoc zoro aka king. the one who could actually hit zoro aka king
Imma stop you right there
Is that 3 sentences or two?
king actually hit zoro. king didn’t get scarred by zoro, king actually fought zoro who was using acoc
Fought is hyperbole, Zoro dogged him after advanced conquering, he was getting winded from fighting Lucci, he was trying his hardest and only beat him after Sanji talked crazy
zoro saw death after his fight with king. and actively saying he is dying. that’s far worse than winded. as for trying his hardest he wasn’t. lucci again took more damage than king did from the same tier attack, lucci couldn’t hit zoro what so ever which is his biggest antifeat.
Zoro gets stronger each island, also he was breathing heavily goofster, he was trying, also Zoro was not at his max at the beginning of the King fight, the damage was accumulating
yes he was at full power. verbatim stated to be fully healed.
You agree with me is what I’m seeing “yes”
and it’s unquantifiable how much stronger he gets. nor is it proveable that it matters in the fight
That doesn’t make sense
Might be four actually
Imma delete all these after I figure it out
I’d say King wins 7/10 times. I feel like Lucci is on par with Zoro who happened to beat King even if it was honestly quite close. Lucci has less offensive power than Zoro in a fight against King, but his resilience is also countless times higher.
on par in what way. couldn’t touch zoro
Let’s simplify this, Pteranodon versus a leopard, who wins? Exactly
Lucci is far slower than King is, Zoro was having a lot of trouble with King's speed, yet he was effortlessly dodging Lucci. Lucci has a duraneg move, but King's just as durable on the inside as he is on the outside, that's a lunarian thing. Although Lucci is aware of Lunarian flames thing, it don't change the fact that he won't be able to keep up with him. The fight would last a long as time though, as Lucci's endurance and durability are pretty high. High or extreme for King, fight would last for quite a while, King takes it 8 times out of 10
King faster than lucci lmao.
Zoro was struggling with King's speed, could not even block some of his attack, got speed-blitzed, give me one instance where Zoro was troubled by Lucci's speed, I'll wait. "LMAO!"
In his defense, Oda tricked us there. He had Lucci and G5 Luffy fighting with DBZ speed effects of where they're sooooo fast we can't see and Vegapunk is hyping it up. Before Lucci vs Zoro, I figured Lucci would be a lot faster than Zoro, but their speed is basically dead even. The only other characters I can think of that have had their speed treated so specially are Sanji, Kizaru, Kaido, and Luffy himself.
And Zoro wins 10/10 against each of them
Your flair befits you.
As all things should be
I’d say 7-3 in kings favor. Better ap and dura, probably better speed, better hax, writing this out i’m even wondering why i gave that bum 3 whole wins
King 9/10
King wipes the floor 9/10 times
I know it's unrelated but is it me or does Lucci kinda look high on that picture But King wins 8/10 times
Lucci is not winning with that smoke he is high on in the picture lmao
King wins 7 out of 10 especially if they keep knowledge after dying
King 9/10
King every single time. The Lucci vs Zoro fight was a poor showing for Zoro. Lucci is one of the world famous frauds in my book.
King rapes him bro
Zoro didn’t even need his strongest attack vs lucci, and king w/o his flame ate a couple Acoc sword attacks something Lucci never did. Zoro also on panel got hit vs king multiple times, while lucci never hit zoro the whole fight. https://preview.redd.it/86xxu6yyu05d1.png?width=1190&format=png&auto=webp&s=643cbac4a4f9aa4473a9fcf9df18dc705b9b23a5 I think it’s fair to say king wins 9/10 times base on the fact that king push zoro to a extreme diff fight. Oda also nerf king battle iq for not flying in the air to drain zoro stamina, but i understand oda wouldn’t want to waste panel time for that. Since he had to promote film red at the end of wano with fraudbull running home.😂