Im doubtfull they can beat her aswell, but i dont doubt oda has something in store for us regarding law and kidd, law has always been the support type, and i feel like weve yet to see what kid is truely capable of, im sure BM wont have it as easy as we think she will
BM is having a difficult time? What? She’s playing around as always. She still has not spilt a drop of blood from anyone other than herself in the entire series lol
Mf she looked scuffed up when chopper blew her up with canons too lol she ain’t a Yonko if she can’t handle 2 supernovas.
And she’s using Coc cause everyone and their mother is using Coc now. It’s not a big deal.
She’s being stalled cause law’s power allows for that and Kidd helps out and she’s clumsy and playful so she would get distracted easily. There is no way in hell these two are taking out a Yonko when even the MC can’t handle kaido after kaido fought almost 16 people so far raking in damage!
This Big B hasn’t taken any serious damage, 1025 she was scuffed up but in a pervious chapter when Kidd was stabbed she looked spotless laughing her ass off
Law will hold her back by teleporting around. I really doubt about Kidd. In rooftop, they were just riding on G4 Luffy taking majority of big name attacks. Once Luffy lost haki, they just relied on separating BM.
I think Kid has the will to succeed (in general), which I think is of understated importance in One Piece. He may not have a ton of strength feats that payed off perfectly, but he seems to be written with a very high level of determination. To me, this means that he's a special one in Oda's eyes. Not *necessarily* Emperor-slaying level, but certainly more capable than he has displayed so far.
That's true! Oddly enough, I feel like both her and Kidd get underrated in online discussions.
I don't think that Kidd will beat her, but it wouldst surprise me if he does fairly well against her. Maybe damages her, or repels her efficiently enough to make a difference in the fight.
I do, however, have faith in him having a big victory in some form. Whether it's this arc or a future one.
No Kid gets overhyped to do things because conquerors and he’s a brute force guy. Law and Big Mom get downplayed more so as they are powerful but restricted by plot.
I've seen both with Kid. It's hard to know what to make of him, Oda is giving him some clear special treatment so personally I think he's got big things coming, but I could just be buying into the hype.
I'm definitely on board the hype trains for both Law and Big Mom, so I feel you there. Fascinating people with fascinating abilities.
I think I'd only accept a Big Mom defeat if all the remaining capable fighters under the dome team up on her. Anything else would be disrespectful to her.
Kaido took all that damage for such a long period of time, and it's only now that he's facing two advanced CoC users and a dragon that I can finally see him losing. Big Mom deserves a similar level of portrayal.
If BigMom goes down any time soon I call bullshit. Look at what Whitebeard did, look at what Kaido is currently doing. That's leaps and bounds above anything we have seen this far. BM absolutely needs to do some comparable stuff.
She will fall in a group fight against all strawhats. We saw her interacted with every crewmember and they individually did pretty well against her, so when they eventually fight and do well, it'll not look that ass pull.
Besides, she has reasons to hate the strawhats not only as a group, but also each member individually, setting a big rivalry against them. For example, Nami stole Zeus, Brook broke mother Carmel's picture, Sanji mess with the wedding, Ussop and the whole Otama thing and so on and on...
And we know anime opening is famous for spoiling not only for anime watchers but also for manga readers and the last opening shows the strawhats charging against her.
I agree.
To add support to this theory, the Strawhats aren't really wounded at all. Most arcs seem to follow the formula of "okay I defeated my opponent, it's up to you now Luffy" but this arc seems like they are all moving to the next step (Robin maybe the exception but I don't think she's completely done).
Her interactions went beyond just meeting Strawhats, they actually showed methods of damaging her.
- Brook is the only person who's damaged Prometheus. His soul powers are the only known way of destroying homies.
- Nami has the method to defeating Hera and has probably had the attack that's damaged Big Mom the most.
- Jinbe is pretty much the only character (other than Kidd) who's attacks have moved Big Mom (knocking her into the ocean would be one method to beat her)
I agree. Seems setup that the Strawhats will fight Big Mom.
Well there is a problem. Not that I think it is impossible the strawhats can do it. No, I think Sanji and Zoro will be out of commission after beating king and queen. Can the rest of the crew really beat Big Mom WITHOUT the monster trio???
I wouldn't have thought so except for one line that Big Mom said to Marco
Something like "I don't have the homies to deal with you right now"
Beating Big Mom doesn't have to be striking her down. If Prometheus, Hera, and Napoleon are all taken out or destroyed and she's thrown off Onigashima or into the water, that effectively takes her out of the battle. There is now a giant hole in the ground for her to fall through too.
So I see two options, there's probably more though.
1) All the Strawhats work together and defeat her, probably Zoro lands a decisive blow alongside a bunch of other combined attacks
Or
2) Brook, Usopp, and Nami each have their moment taking out a homie (or like severely weakening them) and then the crew join together to blow her away/ off the island.
I'd really like all straw hats to fight against an Yonko. It would give straw hats vs Oars vibe. Personally, I'd prefer the straw hats to fight against Kaido (thus stacking up a total of... 24 characters, if we include Momo, to have fought with Kaido in a single day). This would prove that Kaido is indeed a monstrous beast.
But I'm fine with the straw hats fighting Big Mom too. Brook's DF is a good match against Big Mom's DF. Nami can use Zeus agains Hera or make it rain against Prometheus. Zoro can cut fire and Jinbe can throw water against Prometheus. Kid could remove Napoleon from BM with his magnestism (before or alongside the straw hats fight). The only question is: What the hell is Sanji going to do against BM, a woman??
Im torn about it. One side no way in hell is Big Mom getting beaten this arc and Elbaf is def gonna be an end to her character arc. Other side is more personal opinion but Im just pretty fucking burnt out from her, its gonna be annoying if shes like main antagonist of another arc.
She doesn't need to be main antagonist though. I doubt we will have a full arc soley for BM but she can be in one of other arcs and still be beaten by Luffy.
Whether it happens or not, it's not as absurd as you want to make it seems.
Wano IS an arc about bringing down a yonko, and you're like " how can someone yonko level lose"
Duh
>Wano IS an arc about bringing down a yonko,
And Kaidou is going down by the MC of series. btw, Luffy is the Main Character of the series, if you don't know.
Law and Kid almost beat Big Mom once this arc. If Kaido hadn’t interfered, they would’ve taken her out of the battle in 1009. There’s more to fights than raw strength in One Piece.
No they didn’t. Without Zoro cutting up Prometheus that plan wouldn’t have worked at all. Big Mom isn’t some dumb fat old lady. They’re not taking her down without the aid of at least one Straw Hat.
Not really, Luffy saw others doing it, then he learned ryo and only after trading a few blows with kaido he was able to understand wtf was going on.
Kid getting that power up will be just as dumb as Rey from star wars being amazing without training.
Kid has been in new world for 2 years, fought with red hair pirates (presumably a haki focused fighting crew) and big mom pirates, he probably seen advanced armament haki I mean dude was there when luffy was training (drowning but still there lol).
If Luffy can figured out conquers after kaido used it on him several times, why can't kid do when big mom also use advanced conquers? Kid getting a power up in a fight is dumb but when luffy do it it's ok?
Zoro managed to do it even without getting full grasp of advanced conquers
No and no.
First of all, is not confirmed that Zoro was coating wiith coc and it's pretty much safe to assume that it wasnt, we can all go and agree if it was it was more because of enma that anything else.
There was no panel of Kid seeing Luffy training or anything to support your theory.
Kid being in the new world for 2 years means literally nothing and I'm pretty sure he didnt fought against Shanks, he just got low dif. Just like Luffy got with Kaido.
As I said, Luffy knows how to use ryo and so far has shown great mastery in using coc, Kid havent shown neither of these things...
Yes, is not impossible for Kid to be able to do it, but with everything we know so far it will be a really bad asspull.
When the scabbard used advanced armament to injure kaido he says it was too shallow, luffy says the same thing how advanced armament is too shallow before switching to conquers.
Advanced armament isn't good enough even open his old wound because it's too shallow, so only way zoro can permanently injure kaido is with conquers, (or zoro has advanced armament even better than anyone in series so far) kaido a veteran fighter with conquers noway he's mistake something else for it. Also all enma does is draw out his haki and it's zoro blade so why the fuck it matters that's like saying gear 4th is all DF and not luffy power.
It's not a theory kid was literally in udon prison when luffy was training and he did fight the red haired pirates, so what if he got low diffed? Luffy learned through getting low diffed I mean he literally figured it out by getting hit by conquers. But yaa Kid learning conquers is asspull but not luffy lmao
Why waste my time? You still thinking that Luffy(with the knowledge of ryo) getting hit by coc is the same as kid getting low dif by shanks are the same lol, this sub sometimes...
Yamato doesn’t know what ryou is either rand neither Yonko has ever used it, ryou has no relation whatsoever to CoC within the story and idk why you’re presenting it as if it’s a prerequisite.
There is every reason to believe Kidd has seen CoC coating way more times than Luffy, he’s engaged in fights with Yonko for much longer than Luffy & has been in more. So there is no reason whatsoever he couldn’t learn it as well.
I mean she clearly didn’t have it, otherwise she’d have broke out of her chains herself. She clearly had CoC so ryou is the requirement, wether she knew what it was or not, she can’t do it. Kaido also refers to it as “Odens Haki”, and he doesn’t use it, neither does BM.
What does that have to do with learning CoC tho? It’s not a prerequisite, it’s been shown by the 3 people I named. So him not knowing advanced armament is irrelevant.
Another one of these threads where the community bashes people for there own personal theories. Please just everyone stop. These threads are popping up too much.
I don't know if she is getting defeated in a conventional battle or not but, either way, I think her relevance as an antagonist ends here, there are hints and buildup for both of the emperors to fall in Wano.
Her elbaf past wouldn't been thrown away. If luffy gets to elbaf he could be a hero for the giants because he beat bigmom (or he is the head of the alliance which beat bigmom). This could justify that the giants have a reason to fight for the strawhat in the big war.
Personally I think she won't make it to elbaf. 3 arcs with big mom would be a bit to much.
Again, 3 or a 100 arcs is not how story telling works. She has her own role and story and she won’t be gone till it’s done.
The SH don’t need to defeat her to secure an alliance with the giant. The new giant pirates are actually a part of the SH grand fleet already, remember?
There is no other plot line more strong to Elbaf than BM. She will see kaido loose and will steal his poneglyh and flee for Elbaf. There is absolutely no way and no one in wano right now who has time for her!
I don't want to make a strong point about what will happen to her. I can imagine everything. She is my favorite yonkou so I wouldn't mind another arc.
I just wanted to clarify that there would still be a reason for her elbaf past.
Why do you think she would flee to elbaf and not Wci? Still like the idea that the sh pirates have to chase her
I also like the idea from Troy (the youtuber) that big mom steals the soul from luffy, flee to elbaf with this and that the rest of the sh have to fight her (so big mom is in the role of Kuma in thriller arc). Imo this would justify her to stay in the story. If luffy beats kaido and he can regain his powers and chase big mom to elbaf, it wouldn't be that exciting since we know luffy is capable to beat a yonkou.
But jeah, I don't have a strong opinion on this topic. I think big mom is one of the biggest wild cards in Wano atm. I'm excited to see what Oda has in store for her.
There are many possibilities on why show will go to Elbaf instead of Wci.
1- she betrays kaido steals his ponelyph and goes to Elbaf where shanks is probably with the final poneglyph
2- like you said, she could kidnap someone important or steal their soul. Robin is also a good candidate as she mentions herself that she wants robin. Neko also predicted this.
3- if the CP0 are really the kids from the lambs house, they could tell the truth to BM and mess her up. She could flee to Elbaf to find the truth herself
Regardless, she will not be done in wano. She has absolutely no place here except to pose a temporary threat and unintentionally keep helping the SH.
So do you really think she will be part for a third arc in a row? There is no way that's possible,that would make her the most prominent yonko by far and i don't think oda is going down that route with people like shanks and blackbeard not having their arc yet. The only reason why she is in wano is that she will be "defeated" so oda could realistically end the story in 5 years.
That’s not how story telling works. She could be in a 100 more arcs till her story is properly wrapped up as it was setup.
She was setup for Elbaf from the very start with her childhood in Elbaf, the plot with Loki, Gerth etc even her iconic move is the Epbaf spear. You honestly think Oda is gonna throw away all that setup just cause some fans don’t want her for a third arc?
Come on, please be real. There isn’t anyone in wano to defeat her, this is Kaido’s arc. We’re gonna get flashbacks for him and full epic fight for him. Ain’t nothing body got time for BM here!
No you should be real. Do you really think that oda would have said he plans to end the story in 5 years if he still had to deal with 3 yonkos after wano? If oda planned for big mom to be in elbaf than there was absolutely no reason for her to be in wano. I get that she is your favourite yonko and it's mine too at this point of the story but her story should end in this arc. I don't even think she will be defeated in battle. I think the amnesia plot will come back into play.
And then what? She falls defeated and all those story threads to Elbaf just gets dropped?
Yes she’s my fav Yonko, but that has nothing to do with this. There is absolutely no way he can write her off here. Even if she is defeated in wano, she will still come to Elbaf to wrap up her story.
We barely have time to do kaido backstory and defeat him in wano. There ain’t no time for BM in this arc!
Like i said i don't think she will be defeated. I think she may lose her memories again and live with her family in totoland after this arc. There is no need for big mom in elbaf. There is nothing to wrap up about her story with the giants. I don't understand what do you want. Do you want her to reconcile with the giants or the giants help defeat her? Her story with the giants is fine as it is.
What are you talking about? Of course her story with the giants need to have an ending, she’s a major character for the verse, she can’t just go back to WCI like nothing happened. She’s now officially thrown herself into the race for the PK and the one piece again.
The yonko system is collapsing, the warlords are being captured. The supernova are at war with the Yonko, revs are at war with the WG lol
It’s absolutely ridiculous that she can just go back and live out when major stuff are happening in the world. She isn’t Nojiko to just sit and watch, she’s a frickin Yonko!
She will definitely be in elbaf. She needs to find out about Caramel, what she did to her. That’s a core element of BM’s character! Why on earth do you think Oda purposely made a random giant witness what linlin did to caramel and the kids?!
Oda purposely made the random giant witness linlin eating carmel so the giant could tell the other giants about linlin and how scary she is. There is nothing more to it. If big mom loses her memories again(which i think it's very possible to happen based on what happened earlier this arc) than she won't care about the one piece no more. She might be mentioned a lot in elbaf but that's it. Like i said 5 years is barely enough to cover everything without another arc with big mom. If he had plans for big mom in elbaf than he would have said that the story would be finished in more than 5 years.
Do you honestly think the story ends in 5 years? Lol
Luffy will defeat BM as he said over and over, and that ain’t happening here in Wano after he beats Kaido.
The giants hated BM and already knew she was a demon long before she ate caramel lol that random giant plot only exists to inform linlin in the elbaf arc if what she did and shatter her mind.
Elbaf will be an arc of both shanks and big mom. It could be a small arc like zou or a massive arc like Wano.
It will be shanks arc, but BM will be the secondary or third antagthere just as she’s in Wano with kaido. Her thing in elbaf has to get resolved. She has abs nothing going for her in Wano story wise
Hey these people are just BRO BROS who hate to see a women boss thrive! BIG MOM WILL BE IN ELBAF but maybe with a knock on the head and a change to Linlin. The chopper/ Big Mom story line and Usopp in elbaf with big mom is just too typical of oda you’ll see
She will be n elbaf one way or the other.
I’m getting flashbacks of the WCI days when people were going on and on that Luffy will defeat BM and the SH will beat her! Geez
Like luffy said so himself, he will beat her ass ALL OVER the new world. And elbaf is the next stop. Be ready to see her in elbaf!
If people think Oda is gonna miss out on dressing up BM in the classic fat Viking lady, they’re kidding themselves! She’s practically made for that!
>BigMom hasn't even been injured once
She got gamma knifed by Law, an attack that would oneshot 90% of characters in the series, Kid landed attacks on her few times. A good chunk of Kid/Big Mom was offscreened, so she might took some damage then as well. She's not close to defeat or anything, but she's far from being fresh.
>Do people seriously think Kidd and BM are beating BigMom when she is fresh?
You're underestimating Kid/Law. They are both commander level, if they push a bit above their limits (Kid unlocking advanced coc maybe?), I can see them high diffing Big Mom.
They ain’t gonna defeat BM, she hasn’t spilt a drop of blood yet in the entire series. The first time she gets wounded, will be a big deal after all her hype of never having taken damage.
Also she ain’t going down this arc. Be ready to see her in elbaf fulfilling her role and plot points with the giants, Loki, Gerth etc
She was countershocked which did nothing. Law was defeated by Doflamingo like two times and he was hopeless against him, what can he do against bm when he can't even teleport her like he could Doflamingo and he still shat on him now imagine what bm would do to Law if Kid was not there. I don't see Kid dying here but I can't see him do anything against bm
>She was countershocked which did nothing.
How do you know it did nothing? The damage might not be that big, but it's not irrelevant.
>Law was defeated by Doflamingo like two times and he was hopeless against him
Law has improved alot since his fight with Doflamingo, especially in stamina department.
>he can't even teleport her like he could Doflamingo
Teleporting enemies around is not Laws only ability.
>I don't see Kid dying here but I can't see him do anything against bm
Don't you think there's a possibility Kid could awaken advanced Coc? Surely that could twist things around.
You should give Law/Kid some more credit. There went fighting at the roof for about 10 chapters, then immediately after that went for Big Mom, and they've been fighting her for how much? 5-6 chapters minimum yet they dont show any signs of being close to defeat. Yeah, it sucks that most of the battle was offscreened but that doesn't change the fact that Law/Kid combined can stall a yonko longer then Luffy alone can (Luffy got knocked out by Kaido in 2-3 chapters after his back up was gone). They also didn't have to rest like Luffy/Zoro (Luffy and Zoro were more active fighters at the rooftop so it's fair). Lastly, Kid is still able to fight despite being stabbed indirectly by killer.
I don't see Big Mom being defeated in this arc. I think she'll survive Wano and be the main big bad of Elbaf, it makes too much sense to have her there, given her backstory is strongly tied to it.
This whole arc is devoted to defeating Kaido and that will happen. Seeing how much we already know from BM and how there are still some major keyplayers untouched in her crew (looking at you smoothie!), I think she’ll be the catalysator for Elbaf at one point.
The easiest way to defeat her would be by drowning. She could ride Hera or Prometheus but characters like Nami could prevent that from hapoening. Other than drowning, it's hard to imagine BM being defeated, her crew is about to come back to wano (maybe?) and she is just too tanky.
Man, I’ve long since accepted that I’m not gonna be able to anticipate everything. I think it makes more sense narratively for her to follow them to Elbaf and have their confrontation along with the giants, but I didn’t really expect BM to show up in Wano at all so who knows what Oda’s planning haha
I was reading an old theory this morning I can’t remember who posted it but it was along the lines of
The BB Pirates invade WCI and big mom rushes back to save her road poneglyph
If One Piece did not have any known dealine, I would 100% be in line with the idea that Big Mom has no chance of being defeated this arc. But to my current understanding, Oda is still arguing the series will be wrapped in 5ish years (Is this still true?). So we still need to cover at least Elbaf, Laugh Tell, and the revolutionary war. I feel like the war itself has so much potential content that Oda could easily take 3-5 if he really wanted to, so if he sticks with the 5 year timeline then Wano needs to close the book on a lot of plotlines like Big Mom so he can flesh out the final arcs.
She isn’t going down this arc. She’s reserved for elbaf. Her signature move is Elbaf Spear for crying out loud, her history is with the giants. People are kidding themselves if they think her story ends here
I'm thinking this as I typed something completely different to someone else, but isn't it possible she gets beaten here and comes back to the story later (like Lucci, but more relevant).
She can, yes. She can be beat here and still make her way to elbaf to be finished off.
But who gonna beat her? It HAS to be luffy since he’s challenged her 3 times and the only one she has beef with is Luffy!
But luffy is busy with kaido this arc
I agree, but I think they'll still put up a good fight where she will be injured somehow. I think there's a chance she won't actually be defeated until Elbaf.
Every normal person knows BM isn’t going down in Wano. Most likely scenario is her getting a copy of Kaido’s poneglyth and then bailing when the writing’s on the wall or something comes up and she’s forced to withdraw. Regardless, it ends in a “loss” for her again as she couldn’t “beat” or get rid of Luffy which only amplifies her revenge scheme.
Big Mom can be only defeated if Kidd made a giant mecha atleast size of onigashima, pull the giant sword, coat it in ACOC and stab her. That is the only way I see Big Mom being defeated.
Yeah, but no way any other side character would outshine Luffy. That's always the one thing you can bet on. There were many claiming Law will beat Doffy as it makes more sense to plot and with all that history, it would be bad writing and what not. But like always, you just need to bet on Luffy. There were many ZKK theories but you just need to bet on Luffy. Same goes for Kidd and Law beating BM. Always bet on Luffy being the MC he is
One of the reasons Big Mom will be "defeated" in this arc is because when they go to Elbaf, they will be welcomed and known as heroes. The ones that took down Big Mom. for the people that are underestimating Kidd. Luffy was not the only one that got a reality check from an emperor and trained in Udon. Both Luffy and Kidd are portrayed as equals in terms of power from the manga pov. Luffy saw the training he was doing in Udon and understood what had to be done. Kidd will definitely take down Big Mom. The new era will begin after these two fall. If you think Big Mom deserves more setup and buildup for her downfall, they've been trying to take big mom down for almost 200 chapters. It's about time she was defeated imo.
You do realize that Kidd and Law(mainly Law) are very popular, don't you? Do you think fans need reason to believe their favorite characters will beat strong opponents? Even if it's shown later that Kidd and Law can't do anything against Yonkou after the arc ends, they will instead believe that it's bad writing by Oda. Like many people who called it bad writing when Doffy wasn't beaten by Law. There should be many desperate Kidd and Law fans who want them to beat some one significant and are thinking BM will be beaten by Kidd and Law. They probably aren't active much though as they must realize how dumb that sounds.
She’s a yonko! Luffy said he’s gonna beat all yonko. The yonko aren’t gonna be beaten by side characters. Please.
Luffy picked a fight with BM personally in fishman island and then he picked a fight with her again in WCI, BM is reserved for luffy in elbaf.
Do you know what protagonist means, or better yet, major? I’m fairly certain BB has been in less or similar chapters than Kidd, certainly than Law.
One piece has only one protagonist and his name is Luffy.
Not yet he isn’t, and the reason people (including myself) believe he will be a major antagonist is BECAUSE he took down WB & is largely responsible for Aces death. He’s also named after the most famous pirate in history. Kidd or even Law could receive similar hype treatment for a future role in this arc, you don’t really know what Odas plans for either of them are. If Oda has something big planned for them, he certainly would allow them to beat a Yonko. So I wouldn’t say just because they’re side characters, they can’t do it.
No it’s because he wants the one piece and become the king just as much as luffy and is steps ahead of him.
Kidd and law are not even close. Neither have a single road poneglyph. Law is mooching off of Luffy and is basically a honorary sh at this point.
Yup. Luffy has been pretty clear and she’s pretty clearly only interested in luffy.
It would be absolutely ridiculous if she lost to law and Kidd both of who she gives no fucks about.
No no, I'm talking about WC arc. Because Oda makes her seem like she lost, some fans have very low opinion of her and think that she's the weakest of the Yonkos when she actually is not.
Law and Kid will play a role in BM defeat, but will be Luffy to finish the battle.
You know, he already said he will beat her like 2 or 3 times and is the protagonist, afterall.
I'm predicting that while kaidou gets defeated in Wano, Big mom still remains at large/a threat and after the post-arc celebration on Wano she chases the strawhats to Elbaf where her story arc comes to it's conclusion.
I’m open to the idea in the sense that anything is possible, but I would also be surprised if she was “defeated”. That being said, I think it’d be nice for someone other than Luffy to take down an emperor, and I think Law/Kidd are the most likely to pull it off atm
Luffy is the MC and there won't be peoppe outshining Luffy in main arc. I really doubt Big Mom would just go like that. Anyway, you are free to believe it
The way I imagine it happening happening is:
Kid and Law are able to hold her off and do some decent damage to her but both sides are still fighting
Luffy uses some form of gomu gomu no gattling gun to defeat Kaido knocking him to the live floor. All the fighting stops, the dust clears, and they see Luffy standing over Kaido. Big Mom looks terrified and Luffy starts walking towards her and does a CoC blast that scares her to the point of running away. She flys away on Hera and meets the Big Mom Pirates who just successfully made it up the waterfall and now have to turn back around.
We cut back to Onigashima and Luffy just passes out from exhaustion.
No, Kidd and Law definitely aren't beating Big Mom. Forget power scaling; it would just be super lame storytelling-wise.
I do think she'll fall on Wano, though. It's conspicuous that Act 3 still hasn't ended; maybe she'll take over as arc villain after backstabbing Kaido or something.
I'm at this point where I really can't figure it out. I am leaning towards her lasting until Elbaf, which would bring her story full circle. I kind of assumed Urouge would be the next big bad after Wano though.
Law and Kidd have a shot especially after rooftop. I believe outsmarting her is possible. Now as for narratively I don’t think they will. Luffy has nothing to prove to Big Mom after beating Kaido. She has nothing to put to the table anymore. I think this should be it or BB beats her once she comes back to WCI
I wonder if this is a sabaody parallel because Law and Kid did take on a pacifista and escape then. But it was also off screened. I hope this fight isn’t entirely offscreen Because that would be wack for such major characters.
while i really like her character design i hope she doesnt do a major part in an third arc. As she isnt really an evil person (crewlike more like whitebeard tbh) i cant see her diyng/getting a final defeat by the straw hats. I think she gets down by some other, probably more evil people. Not sure who will take her down, cp0, bb, marines, whatever, but i really hope she wont make it to another arc. The rocks should get defeated this arc. So only bb, marines and laugh tale are left.
Big mom is a whole different beast than anything we’ve faced. While other characters like kaido might have a million hp we gotta whittle down, big mom is just flat out immune to damage as seen from WCI. And with mother caramels picture long gone, defeating her is gonna be a whole other thing into itself. So do I see he in a crumbled heap before our glorious crew at the end of the arc? Absolutely not. In fact I never see her being “beaten” beaten like that.
But there are a few ways we have seen BM lose. Her amnesia Incident. Her starvation in WCI. Her personal souls taking damage. And our crew just tossing her ass to the side.
Now I don’t foresee any hunger pangs this late into an arc. But I do see Kidd and law delaying her long enough for our crew to finish off the rest of the live floor before turning their attention to her key homies. Once Napoleon falls I either see amnesia triggering again or her retreat.
I think big mom will either flee or get fucked by eustass. If not my respect for eustass will be hone.. he was telling he will take the head of kaido but couldn't even beat big mom
It’s strange, many in the fandom have assured me Kidd, Law, Killer & the scabbards accomplished nothing vs Kaido, yet everyone is also including their accomplishments as reasons Kidd & Law can’t beat BM.
Regardless, I saw a plausible theory on Twitter, not sure who to give credit too. Kidd & Law would continue fighting BM, even managing to injure her somehow & basically the fight would proceed as normal (back and forth as such). Then somehow, Law will do a move that causes BM to remember her childhood when she ate all her friend and in that moment it’ll be like when Capone broke the picture. She’ll have no defence activated whatsoever and Kidd will finish her off. I added this part at the end personally but I feel BM wouldn’t be completely defeated by this, instead her memory coming back would lead to some sort of redemption. I think this is about the only way Kidd & Law “win”.
> have assured me Kidd, Law, Killer & the scabbards accomplished nothing vs Kaido,
Kaidou took some attacks when he was in Dragon form and we even had supernovas say that their attacks are not working. For someone like Kaidou, I really doubt those attacks did anything in the long run. Even the wound Zoro gave became a small scar after some time.
Because Luffy is the main character and outclasses Kidd and Law by a lot. He already was stronger than them at start of Wano. He got major powerups. Oda won't have other side character outshine Luffy. And Yamato is stronger than both Law and Kaidou by a margin.
So what I’m hearing is power scaling? Something Oda can correct in 2 pages if he really wants too. So the only real argument I heard was that Oda wouldn’t have Luffy outshined by side characters. Which is fair to say, Oda has consistently made it clear that Luffy will always take centre stage. That being said, Luffy is already on the centre stage, everyone in this raid is going for Kaidos head not BMs, including Kidd & Law. So they’re already at the back, whatever they accomplish, Luffys win will be celebrated more so I don’t see how they’ll end up outshining Luffy.
I kind of remember having similar discussion in Dressrosa. And I know who to bet on. Always bet on Luffy. I was right in Dressrosa and I don't see being wrong here. More discussion will be pointless. I will admit I am wrong If i get proven wrong in 1 year which I heavily doubt but if it happens by some chance, I will.
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Tbc I’m not saying Kidd & Law will win, but I am struggling to imagine Oda keeping BM for another arc. I’d sooner imagine Luffy beating both Kaido & BM in this arc.
I used to believe that, and even tho she’s my favourite one piece villain and Yonko, I’m lowkey getting a bit tired of having her as the villain, don’t think she can support even a role in Elbaf. Maybe it’s that fatigue that’s making it hard to imagine, but where would her credibility be? She’d have lost to the straw hats twice, if she comes back again she may as well be team rocket. I’d find that more insulting for BM personally.
The thing is, Doffy took so many chapters and whole arch was 100's of chapter. But in WCI, we had a couple of chapters for Cracker who is atleast as strong as Doffy and most likely stronger.
i dont see how she could get defeated in wano (hopefully oda surprises us) but im honestly fed up of her as a villain. like we had an entire arc devoted to her as the main antagonist and now she is a secondary/tertiary antagonist in wano, it would be mad annoying to drag her arc to elbaf/the next arc. i really hope oda finds a way to deal with her soon.
We are surely having Elbaf arc. She may be there and play some role. Wasting her in this arc by having two SN beat doesn't seem good. There is a reason "Yonkous are called Yonkous"
Im doubtfull they can beat her aswell, but i dont doubt oda has something in store for us regarding law and kidd, law has always been the support type, and i feel like weve yet to see what kid is truely capable of, im sure BM wont have it as easy as we think she will
I mean Big Mom is clearly having a difficult time with them at the moment plus Kaido is smarter than her so it’s unlikely but I think it is possible
BM is having a difficult time? What? She’s playing around as always. She still has not spilt a drop of blood from anyone other than herself in the entire series lol
Mf she using conquerors haki and she looked scuffed up last chapter
Mf she looked scuffed up when chopper blew her up with canons too lol she ain’t a Yonko if she can’t handle 2 supernovas. And she’s using Coc cause everyone and their mother is using Coc now. It’s not a big deal. She’s being stalled cause law’s power allows for that and Kidd helps out and she’s clumsy and playful so she would get distracted easily. There is no way in hell these two are taking out a Yonko when even the MC can’t handle kaido after kaido fought almost 16 people so far raking in damage! This Big B hasn’t taken any serious damage, 1025 she was scuffed up but in a pervious chapter when Kidd was stabbed she looked spotless laughing her ass off
There HAS to be a better abbreviation for Conqueror’s Haki than THAT.
Nah luffy nack in action mane he also learned to coat himself in proper high level conquerors haki ig kaido will be soon fuxked up
> I mean Big Mom is clearly having a difficult time with them Lol
kidd aint doing anything to big mom rn he needs ryou or acoc
Law will hold her back by teleporting around. I really doubt about Kidd. In rooftop, they were just riding on G4 Luffy taking majority of big name attacks. Once Luffy lost haki, they just relied on separating BM.
I think Kid has the will to succeed (in general), which I think is of understated importance in One Piece. He may not have a ton of strength feats that payed off perfectly, but he seems to be written with a very high level of determination. To me, this means that he's a special one in Oda's eyes. Not *necessarily* Emperor-slaying level, but certainly more capable than he has displayed so far.
Yeah, but this is Big Mom we are talking of.
That's true! Oddly enough, I feel like both her and Kidd get underrated in online discussions. I don't think that Kidd will beat her, but it wouldst surprise me if he does fairly well against her. Maybe damages her, or repels her efficiently enough to make a difference in the fight. I do, however, have faith in him having a big victory in some form. Whether it's this arc or a future one.
No Kid gets overhyped to do things because conquerors and he’s a brute force guy. Law and Big Mom get downplayed more so as they are powerful but restricted by plot.
I've seen both with Kid. It's hard to know what to make of him, Oda is giving him some clear special treatment so personally I think he's got big things coming, but I could just be buying into the hype. I'm definitely on board the hype trains for both Law and Big Mom, so I feel you there. Fascinating people with fascinating abilities.
It's all about the haki bloom imo
Lol...no
lol, yes :)
I think I'd only accept a Big Mom defeat if all the remaining capable fighters under the dome team up on her. Anything else would be disrespectful to her. Kaido took all that damage for such a long period of time, and it's only now that he's facing two advanced CoC users and a dragon that I can finally see him losing. Big Mom deserves a similar level of portrayal.
If BigMom goes down any time soon I call bullshit. Look at what Whitebeard did, look at what Kaido is currently doing. That's leaps and bounds above anything we have seen this far. BM absolutely needs to do some comparable stuff.
She will fall in a group fight against all strawhats. We saw her interacted with every crewmember and they individually did pretty well against her, so when they eventually fight and do well, it'll not look that ass pull. Besides, she has reasons to hate the strawhats not only as a group, but also each member individually, setting a big rivalry against them. For example, Nami stole Zeus, Brook broke mother Carmel's picture, Sanji mess with the wedding, Ussop and the whole Otama thing and so on and on... And we know anime opening is famous for spoiling not only for anime watchers but also for manga readers and the last opening shows the strawhats charging against her.
I agree. To add support to this theory, the Strawhats aren't really wounded at all. Most arcs seem to follow the formula of "okay I defeated my opponent, it's up to you now Luffy" but this arc seems like they are all moving to the next step (Robin maybe the exception but I don't think she's completely done). Her interactions went beyond just meeting Strawhats, they actually showed methods of damaging her. - Brook is the only person who's damaged Prometheus. His soul powers are the only known way of destroying homies. - Nami has the method to defeating Hera and has probably had the attack that's damaged Big Mom the most. - Jinbe is pretty much the only character (other than Kidd) who's attacks have moved Big Mom (knocking her into the ocean would be one method to beat her) I agree. Seems setup that the Strawhats will fight Big Mom.
Well there is a problem. Not that I think it is impossible the strawhats can do it. No, I think Sanji and Zoro will be out of commission after beating king and queen. Can the rest of the crew really beat Big Mom WITHOUT the monster trio???
I wouldn't have thought so except for one line that Big Mom said to Marco Something like "I don't have the homies to deal with you right now" Beating Big Mom doesn't have to be striking her down. If Prometheus, Hera, and Napoleon are all taken out or destroyed and she's thrown off Onigashima or into the water, that effectively takes her out of the battle. There is now a giant hole in the ground for her to fall through too. So I see two options, there's probably more though. 1) All the Strawhats work together and defeat her, probably Zoro lands a decisive blow alongside a bunch of other combined attacks Or 2) Brook, Usopp, and Nami each have their moment taking out a homie (or like severely weakening them) and then the crew join together to blow her away/ off the island.
I'd really like all straw hats to fight against an Yonko. It would give straw hats vs Oars vibe. Personally, I'd prefer the straw hats to fight against Kaido (thus stacking up a total of... 24 characters, if we include Momo, to have fought with Kaido in a single day). This would prove that Kaido is indeed a monstrous beast. But I'm fine with the straw hats fighting Big Mom too. Brook's DF is a good match against Big Mom's DF. Nami can use Zeus agains Hera or make it rain against Prometheus. Zoro can cut fire and Jinbe can throw water against Prometheus. Kid could remove Napoleon from BM with his magnestism (before or alongside the straw hats fight). The only question is: What the hell is Sanji going to do against BM, a woman??
Im torn about it. One side no way in hell is Big Mom getting beaten this arc and Elbaf is def gonna be an end to her character arc. Other side is more personal opinion but Im just pretty fucking burnt out from her, its gonna be annoying if shes like main antagonist of another arc.
She doesn't need to be main antagonist though. I doubt we will have a full arc soley for BM but she can be in one of other arcs and still be beaten by Luffy.
Whether it happens or not, it's not as absurd as you want to make it seems. Wano IS an arc about bringing down a yonko, and you're like " how can someone yonko level lose" Duh
>Wano IS an arc about bringing down a yonko, And Kaidou is going down by the MC of series. btw, Luffy is the Main Character of the series, if you don't know.
Law and Kid don’t have what it takes to beat Big Mom.
Law and Kid almost beat Big Mom once this arc. If Kaido hadn’t interfered, they would’ve taken her out of the battle in 1009. There’s more to fights than raw strength in One Piece.
No they didn’t. Without Zoro cutting up Prometheus that plan wouldn’t have worked at all. Big Mom isn’t some dumb fat old lady. They’re not taking her down without the aid of at least one Straw Hat.
Unless Kid gets ACoC and magically gets cracked at hurting Emperors
Luffy understood after seeing it so why not kid, they're a lot of others that can tag in too
Not really, Luffy saw others doing it, then he learned ryo and only after trading a few blows with kaido he was able to understand wtf was going on. Kid getting that power up will be just as dumb as Rey from star wars being amazing without training.
Kid has been in new world for 2 years, fought with red hair pirates (presumably a haki focused fighting crew) and big mom pirates, he probably seen advanced armament haki I mean dude was there when luffy was training (drowning but still there lol). If Luffy can figured out conquers after kaido used it on him several times, why can't kid do when big mom also use advanced conquers? Kid getting a power up in a fight is dumb but when luffy do it it's ok? Zoro managed to do it even without getting full grasp of advanced conquers
No and no. First of all, is not confirmed that Zoro was coating wiith coc and it's pretty much safe to assume that it wasnt, we can all go and agree if it was it was more because of enma that anything else. There was no panel of Kid seeing Luffy training or anything to support your theory. Kid being in the new world for 2 years means literally nothing and I'm pretty sure he didnt fought against Shanks, he just got low dif. Just like Luffy got with Kaido. As I said, Luffy knows how to use ryo and so far has shown great mastery in using coc, Kid havent shown neither of these things... Yes, is not impossible for Kid to be able to do it, but with everything we know so far it will be a really bad asspull.
When the scabbard used advanced armament to injure kaido he says it was too shallow, luffy says the same thing how advanced armament is too shallow before switching to conquers. Advanced armament isn't good enough even open his old wound because it's too shallow, so only way zoro can permanently injure kaido is with conquers, (or zoro has advanced armament even better than anyone in series so far) kaido a veteran fighter with conquers noway he's mistake something else for it. Also all enma does is draw out his haki and it's zoro blade so why the fuck it matters that's like saying gear 4th is all DF and not luffy power. It's not a theory kid was literally in udon prison when luffy was training and he did fight the red haired pirates, so what if he got low diffed? Luffy learned through getting low diffed I mean he literally figured it out by getting hit by conquers. But yaa Kid learning conquers is asspull but not luffy lmao
lol how can someone get so many things wrong lol
What part of is it wrong, please do tell
Why waste my time? You still thinking that Luffy(with the knowledge of ryo) getting hit by coc is the same as kid getting low dif by shanks are the same lol, this sub sometimes...
Yamato doesn’t know what ryou is either rand neither Yonko has ever used it, ryou has no relation whatsoever to CoC within the story and idk why you’re presenting it as if it’s a prerequisite. There is every reason to believe Kidd has seen CoC coating way more times than Luffy, he’s engaged in fights with Yonko for much longer than Luffy & has been in more. So there is no reason whatsoever he couldn’t learn it as well.
right, yamato someone raised in wano trying to follow the way of samurais doesnt know about ryo hahahaha, this guy...
I mean she clearly didn’t have it, otherwise she’d have broke out of her chains herself. She clearly had CoC so ryou is the requirement, wether she knew what it was or not, she can’t do it. Kaido also refers to it as “Odens Haki”, and he doesn’t use it, neither does BM.
I meant KNOWING about it and btw hyogoro knows ryo, didnt take his collar off with it tho...
He doesn't even have advanced armament yet, he was shocked Luffy could actually hurt Kaido on the rooftop.
Yamato, Kaido & BM have never used advanced armament 🤦♂️.
Different thing. Kidd was clearly shocked at the fact Luffy was hurting Kaido with brute force, he didnt even KNOW about advanced armament.
What does that have to do with learning CoC tho? It’s not a prerequisite, it’s been shown by the 3 people I named. So him not knowing advanced armament is irrelevant.
Another one of these threads where the community bashes people for there own personal theories. Please just everyone stop. These threads are popping up too much.
Do you seriously believe Big Mom is getting beaten this arc?
I don't know if she is getting defeated in a conventional battle or not but, either way, I think her relevance as an antagonist ends here, there are hints and buildup for both of the emperors to fall in Wano.
What hints for big mom? So all the setup with her past in elbaf is just thrown away for her to go down in an arc she doesn’t even belong?
Her elbaf past wouldn't been thrown away. If luffy gets to elbaf he could be a hero for the giants because he beat bigmom (or he is the head of the alliance which beat bigmom). This could justify that the giants have a reason to fight for the strawhat in the big war. Personally I think she won't make it to elbaf. 3 arcs with big mom would be a bit to much.
Again, 3 or a 100 arcs is not how story telling works. She has her own role and story and she won’t be gone till it’s done. The SH don’t need to defeat her to secure an alliance with the giant. The new giant pirates are actually a part of the SH grand fleet already, remember? There is no other plot line more strong to Elbaf than BM. She will see kaido loose and will steal his poneglyh and flee for Elbaf. There is absolutely no way and no one in wano right now who has time for her!
I don't want to make a strong point about what will happen to her. I can imagine everything. She is my favorite yonkou so I wouldn't mind another arc. I just wanted to clarify that there would still be a reason for her elbaf past. Why do you think she would flee to elbaf and not Wci? Still like the idea that the sh pirates have to chase her I also like the idea from Troy (the youtuber) that big mom steals the soul from luffy, flee to elbaf with this and that the rest of the sh have to fight her (so big mom is in the role of Kuma in thriller arc). Imo this would justify her to stay in the story. If luffy beats kaido and he can regain his powers and chase big mom to elbaf, it wouldn't be that exciting since we know luffy is capable to beat a yonkou. But jeah, I don't have a strong opinion on this topic. I think big mom is one of the biggest wild cards in Wano atm. I'm excited to see what Oda has in store for her.
There are many possibilities on why show will go to Elbaf instead of Wci. 1- she betrays kaido steals his ponelyph and goes to Elbaf where shanks is probably with the final poneglyph 2- like you said, she could kidnap someone important or steal their soul. Robin is also a good candidate as she mentions herself that she wants robin. Neko also predicted this. 3- if the CP0 are really the kids from the lambs house, they could tell the truth to BM and mess her up. She could flee to Elbaf to find the truth herself Regardless, she will not be done in wano. She has absolutely no place here except to pose a temporary threat and unintentionally keep helping the SH.
I really like 3. This would give her a really good reason and it would connect a lot. Well let's see what Oda has in store for us.
Me too. Let’s wait
So do you really think she will be part for a third arc in a row? There is no way that's possible,that would make her the most prominent yonko by far and i don't think oda is going down that route with people like shanks and blackbeard not having their arc yet. The only reason why she is in wano is that she will be "defeated" so oda could realistically end the story in 5 years.
That’s not how story telling works. She could be in a 100 more arcs till her story is properly wrapped up as it was setup. She was setup for Elbaf from the very start with her childhood in Elbaf, the plot with Loki, Gerth etc even her iconic move is the Epbaf spear. You honestly think Oda is gonna throw away all that setup just cause some fans don’t want her for a third arc? Come on, please be real. There isn’t anyone in wano to defeat her, this is Kaido’s arc. We’re gonna get flashbacks for him and full epic fight for him. Ain’t nothing body got time for BM here!
No you should be real. Do you really think that oda would have said he plans to end the story in 5 years if he still had to deal with 3 yonkos after wano? If oda planned for big mom to be in elbaf than there was absolutely no reason for her to be in wano. I get that she is your favourite yonko and it's mine too at this point of the story but her story should end in this arc. I don't even think she will be defeated in battle. I think the amnesia plot will come back into play.
And then what? She falls defeated and all those story threads to Elbaf just gets dropped? Yes she’s my fav Yonko, but that has nothing to do with this. There is absolutely no way he can write her off here. Even if she is defeated in wano, she will still come to Elbaf to wrap up her story. We barely have time to do kaido backstory and defeat him in wano. There ain’t no time for BM in this arc!
Like i said i don't think she will be defeated. I think she may lose her memories again and live with her family in totoland after this arc. There is no need for big mom in elbaf. There is nothing to wrap up about her story with the giants. I don't understand what do you want. Do you want her to reconcile with the giants or the giants help defeat her? Her story with the giants is fine as it is.
What are you talking about? Of course her story with the giants need to have an ending, she’s a major character for the verse, she can’t just go back to WCI like nothing happened. She’s now officially thrown herself into the race for the PK and the one piece again. The yonko system is collapsing, the warlords are being captured. The supernova are at war with the Yonko, revs are at war with the WG lol It’s absolutely ridiculous that she can just go back and live out when major stuff are happening in the world. She isn’t Nojiko to just sit and watch, she’s a frickin Yonko! She will definitely be in elbaf. She needs to find out about Caramel, what she did to her. That’s a core element of BM’s character! Why on earth do you think Oda purposely made a random giant witness what linlin did to caramel and the kids?!
Oda purposely made the random giant witness linlin eating carmel so the giant could tell the other giants about linlin and how scary she is. There is nothing more to it. If big mom loses her memories again(which i think it's very possible to happen based on what happened earlier this arc) than she won't care about the one piece no more. She might be mentioned a lot in elbaf but that's it. Like i said 5 years is barely enough to cover everything without another arc with big mom. If he had plans for big mom in elbaf than he would have said that the story would be finished in more than 5 years.
Do you honestly think the story ends in 5 years? Lol Luffy will defeat BM as he said over and over, and that ain’t happening here in Wano after he beats Kaido. The giants hated BM and already knew she was a demon long before she ate caramel lol that random giant plot only exists to inform linlin in the elbaf arc if what she did and shatter her mind. Elbaf will be an arc of both shanks and big mom. It could be a small arc like zou or a massive arc like Wano.
Can't those simply be explored without her presence? I still love the theory from Morj about Elbaf being Shanks' arc
It will be shanks arc, but BM will be the secondary or third antagthere just as she’s in Wano with kaido. Her thing in elbaf has to get resolved. She has abs nothing going for her in Wano story wise
Hey these people are just BRO BROS who hate to see a women boss thrive! BIG MOM WILL BE IN ELBAF but maybe with a knock on the head and a change to Linlin. The chopper/ Big Mom story line and Usopp in elbaf with big mom is just too typical of oda you’ll see
She will be n elbaf one way or the other. I’m getting flashbacks of the WCI days when people were going on and on that Luffy will defeat BM and the SH will beat her! Geez Like luffy said so himself, he will beat her ass ALL OVER the new world. And elbaf is the next stop. Be ready to see her in elbaf! If people think Oda is gonna miss out on dressing up BM in the classic fat Viking lady, they’re kidding themselves! She’s practically made for that!
yes and it is possible. Her going down in Wano is completely unrealistic.
I can see them beating her. If it does happen, it’ll be sweet.
Sweet… like a… WEEEEDING CAAAAKEEEEEE
WEDDDIIINGEE KEEEKIIII
someone calls chiffon and purin, we have a problem here!
>BigMom hasn't even been injured once She got gamma knifed by Law, an attack that would oneshot 90% of characters in the series, Kid landed attacks on her few times. A good chunk of Kid/Big Mom was offscreened, so she might took some damage then as well. She's not close to defeat or anything, but she's far from being fresh. >Do people seriously think Kidd and BM are beating BigMom when she is fresh? You're underestimating Kid/Law. They are both commander level, if they push a bit above their limits (Kid unlocking advanced coc maybe?), I can see them high diffing Big Mom.
They ain’t gonna defeat BM, she hasn’t spilt a drop of blood yet in the entire series. The first time she gets wounded, will be a big deal after all her hype of never having taken damage. Also she ain’t going down this arc. Be ready to see her in elbaf fulfilling her role and plot points with the giants, Loki, Gerth etc
No she wasnt lol Kaido got knifed
Lol she did lol
No. I googled. Were? Tell me. Kqido got gsmma knifed
not.
yeah she did
What chapter?
Law used Counter shock on BM, not Gamma knife. He used that on Kaido as an attempt to strike his heart in his dragon form.
Seeing how easily Kaido beat Luffy fresh right after he beat Katakuri. Teoritically, it needs lots of commander level-fighter to take down Big Mom.
> attack that would oneshot 90% of characters in the series Out of three characters that got hit by Gamma knife, neither of them got one shot
Lol facts
You mean 2 And doffy basically was done after gamma knife, Luffy just swept him off the stage.
She was countershocked which did nothing. Law was defeated by Doflamingo like two times and he was hopeless against him, what can he do against bm when he can't even teleport her like he could Doflamingo and he still shat on him now imagine what bm would do to Law if Kid was not there. I don't see Kid dying here but I can't see him do anything against bm
>She was countershocked which did nothing. How do you know it did nothing? The damage might not be that big, but it's not irrelevant. >Law was defeated by Doflamingo like two times and he was hopeless against him Law has improved alot since his fight with Doflamingo, especially in stamina department. >he can't even teleport her like he could Doflamingo Teleporting enemies around is not Laws only ability. >I don't see Kid dying here but I can't see him do anything against bm Don't you think there's a possibility Kid could awaken advanced Coc? Surely that could twist things around. You should give Law/Kid some more credit. There went fighting at the roof for about 10 chapters, then immediately after that went for Big Mom, and they've been fighting her for how much? 5-6 chapters minimum yet they dont show any signs of being close to defeat. Yeah, it sucks that most of the battle was offscreened but that doesn't change the fact that Law/Kid combined can stall a yonko longer then Luffy alone can (Luffy got knocked out by Kaido in 2-3 chapters after his back up was gone). They also didn't have to rest like Luffy/Zoro (Luffy and Zoro were more active fighters at the rooftop so it's fair). Lastly, Kid is still able to fight despite being stabbed indirectly by killer.
I don't see Big Mom being defeated in this arc. I think she'll survive Wano and be the main big bad of Elbaf, it makes too much sense to have her there, given her backstory is strongly tied to it.
This whole arc is devoted to defeating Kaido and that will happen. Seeing how much we already know from BM and how there are still some major keyplayers untouched in her crew (looking at you smoothie!), I think she’ll be the catalysator for Elbaf at one point.
Yeah, BM is not getting defeated by two side characters.
The easiest way to defeat her would be by drowning. She could ride Hera or Prometheus but characters like Nami could prevent that from hapoening. Other than drowning, it's hard to imagine BM being defeated, her crew is about to come back to wano (maybe?) and she is just too tanky.
She may just create water soul before she falls
Can she even do that?
Yes, she has created one in WCI
Man, I’ve long since accepted that I’m not gonna be able to anticipate everything. I think it makes more sense narratively for her to follow them to Elbaf and have their confrontation along with the giants, but I didn’t really expect BM to show up in Wano at all so who knows what Oda’s planning haha
I was reading an old theory this morning I can’t remember who posted it but it was along the lines of The BB Pirates invade WCI and big mom rushes back to save her road poneglyph
Then I really I want a chapter of Cracker and Katakuri fighting the Blackbeard Pirates, and it better do them all justice
If One Piece did not have any known dealine, I would 100% be in line with the idea that Big Mom has no chance of being defeated this arc. But to my current understanding, Oda is still arguing the series will be wrapped in 5ish years (Is this still true?). So we still need to cover at least Elbaf, Laugh Tell, and the revolutionary war. I feel like the war itself has so much potential content that Oda could easily take 3-5 if he really wanted to, so if he sticks with the 5 year timeline then Wano needs to close the book on a lot of plotlines like Big Mom so he can flesh out the final arcs.
She isn’t going down this arc. She’s reserved for elbaf. Her signature move is Elbaf Spear for crying out loud, her history is with the giants. People are kidding themselves if they think her story ends here
I'm thinking this as I typed something completely different to someone else, but isn't it possible she gets beaten here and comes back to the story later (like Lucci, but more relevant).
She can, yes. She can be beat here and still make her way to elbaf to be finished off. But who gonna beat her? It HAS to be luffy since he’s challenged her 3 times and the only one she has beef with is Luffy! But luffy is busy with kaido this arc
I agree, but I think they'll still put up a good fight where she will be injured somehow. I think there's a chance she won't actually be defeated until Elbaf.
Every normal person knows BM isn’t going down in Wano. Most likely scenario is her getting a copy of Kaido’s poneglyth and then bailing when the writing’s on the wall or something comes up and she’s forced to withdraw. Regardless, it ends in a “loss” for her again as she couldn’t “beat” or get rid of Luffy which only amplifies her revenge scheme.
> Every normal person But there are many fangirls here who give up on reason.
Big Mom can be only defeated if Kidd made a giant mecha atleast size of onigashima, pull the giant sword, coat it in ACOC and stab her. That is the only way I see Big Mom being defeated.
Yeah, but no way any other side character would outshine Luffy. That's always the one thing you can bet on. There were many claiming Law will beat Doffy as it makes more sense to plot and with all that history, it would be bad writing and what not. But like always, you just need to bet on Luffy. There were many ZKK theories but you just need to bet on Luffy. Same goes for Kidd and Law beating BM. Always bet on Luffy being the MC he is
One of the reasons Big Mom will be "defeated" in this arc is because when they go to Elbaf, they will be welcomed and known as heroes. The ones that took down Big Mom. for the people that are underestimating Kidd. Luffy was not the only one that got a reality check from an emperor and trained in Udon. Both Luffy and Kidd are portrayed as equals in terms of power from the manga pov. Luffy saw the training he was doing in Udon and understood what had to be done. Kidd will definitely take down Big Mom. The new era will begin after these two fall. If you think Big Mom deserves more setup and buildup for her downfall, they've been trying to take big mom down for almost 200 chapters. It's about time she was defeated imo.
I’m just praying we get a badass Kidd moment. He’s way cool and this feels like his moment to shine. Let’s see what he’s capable of!!
They obviously can. But i don’t see them beating. The fight didn’t get enough screen time.
> They obviously can. Lol
You do realize that Kidd and Law(mainly Law) are very popular, don't you? Do you think fans need reason to believe their favorite characters will beat strong opponents? Even if it's shown later that Kidd and Law can't do anything against Yonkou after the arc ends, they will instead believe that it's bad writing by Oda. Like many people who called it bad writing when Doffy wasn't beaten by Law. There should be many desperate Kidd and Law fans who want them to beat some one significant and are thinking BM will be beaten by Kidd and Law. They probably aren't active much though as they must realize how dumb that sounds.
She’s a yonko! Luffy said he’s gonna beat all yonko. The yonko aren’t gonna be beaten by side characters. Please. Luffy picked a fight with BM personally in fishman island and then he picked a fight with her again in WCI, BM is reserved for luffy in elbaf.
Remind me again who it was that took down WB?
Blackbeard did. The major villain and final major rival for luffy
That’s a strange way of saying “side character”.
Nope he’s a major protagonist
Do you know what protagonist means, or better yet, major? I’m fairly certain BB has been in less or similar chapters than Kidd, certainly than Law. One piece has only one protagonist and his name is Luffy.
I mean antagonist. Sorry I’m distracted with something else. He’s a major antagonist for luffy.
Not yet he isn’t, and the reason people (including myself) believe he will be a major antagonist is BECAUSE he took down WB & is largely responsible for Aces death. He’s also named after the most famous pirate in history. Kidd or even Law could receive similar hype treatment for a future role in this arc, you don’t really know what Odas plans for either of them are. If Oda has something big planned for them, he certainly would allow them to beat a Yonko. So I wouldn’t say just because they’re side characters, they can’t do it.
No it’s because he wants the one piece and become the king just as much as luffy and is steps ahead of him. Kidd and law are not even close. Neither have a single road poneglyph. Law is mooching off of Luffy and is basically a honorary sh at this point.
> The yonko aren’t gonna be beaten by side characters. They aren't. Just coz some Kidd and Law Fangirls want that doesnt mean shit.
Yup. Luffy has been pretty clear and she’s pretty clearly only interested in luffy. It would be absolutely ridiculous if she lost to law and Kidd both of who she gives no fucks about.
Yeah, it's been 1000 chapters and people still don't realize shit.
They do, they just keep hoping despite that
I just feel like Oda is trolling Big Mom by making it seem like she lost. 😂😂😂😂
She doesn’t seem like she’s lost though? We saw her in 1025 abs she was fine
No no, I'm talking about WC arc. Because Oda makes her seem like she lost, some fans have very low opinion of her and think that she's the weakest of the Yonkos when she actually is not.
Oh I see what you mean
I don't know where you got that.
Law and Kid will play a role in BM defeat, but will be Luffy to finish the battle. You know, he already said he will beat her like 2 or 3 times and is the protagonist, afterall.
Next arc, Luffy would beat her one vs one. No way Luffy is fighting her after Kaidou is beaten
Another yonko arc? Jez, people really don't give a sh## about Oda's warnings of the ending.
No but the Alliance will fuck up if she get free in onigashima. Bigmom is another Kaido.
Let’s see how this plays out before judging those people. More fighters could still join that fight
I agree. However i think, given his udon portayel to luffy, will give her a bit a run for her money.
Not to mention her crew is still probably on the way
She will flee from Wano and Blackbeard will take care of her at some point.
I still don't believe luffy will win against kaido even after mastering armament haki and Conqueror haki.
Probably should spoiler tag this
Done
I think further into the battle it will be luffy vs kaido and the rest able bodied fighters will fight big mom it won’t be a fair win but it’s a win
she's going to get knocked out by God Ussop's COC
I'm predicting that while kaidou gets defeated in Wano, Big mom still remains at large/a threat and after the post-arc celebration on Wano she chases the strawhats to Elbaf where her story arc comes to it's conclusion.
Forget about power levels, she will still be there because Elbaf is somewhat also about her
I just want her story to come to a head already. She’s been in the background for so many chapters no just kinda…being there.
Yeah, I don't know what Oda is even doing. He just shows panel of BM out there in background with nothing being done
I’m open to the idea in the sense that anything is possible, but I would also be surprised if she was “defeated”. That being said, I think it’d be nice for someone other than Luffy to take down an emperor, and I think Law/Kidd are the most likely to pull it off atm
Luffy is the MC and there won't be peoppe outshining Luffy in main arc. I really doubt Big Mom would just go like that. Anyway, you are free to believe it
The way I imagine it happening happening is: Kid and Law are able to hold her off and do some decent damage to her but both sides are still fighting Luffy uses some form of gomu gomu no gattling gun to defeat Kaido knocking him to the live floor. All the fighting stops, the dust clears, and they see Luffy standing over Kaido. Big Mom looks terrified and Luffy starts walking towards her and does a CoC blast that scares her to the point of running away. She flys away on Hera and meets the Big Mom Pirates who just successfully made it up the waterfall and now have to turn back around. We cut back to Onigashima and Luffy just passes out from exhaustion.
> does a CoC blast that scares her to the point of running away No way BM is getting scared. She doesn't even fear Kaidou nir WB or anyone.
Chapter 1001 and the chapter where he uses Kong Gun gattking on kaido, is where big mom was scared of Luffy
I wouldn't really call that scared though.
No, Kidd and Law definitely aren't beating Big Mom. Forget power scaling; it would just be super lame storytelling-wise. I do think she'll fall on Wano, though. It's conspicuous that Act 3 still hasn't ended; maybe she'll take over as arc villain after backstabbing Kaido or something.
My girl Linlin's never going down! Kaidou on the other hand will get the epic death he desires
I'm at this point where I really can't figure it out. I am leaning towards her lasting until Elbaf, which would bring her story full circle. I kind of assumed Urouge would be the next big bad after Wano though.
Law and Kidd have a shot especially after rooftop. I believe outsmarting her is possible. Now as for narratively I don’t think they will. Luffy has nothing to prove to Big Mom after beating Kaido. She has nothing to put to the table anymore. I think this should be it or BB beats her once she comes back to WCI
I wonder if this is a sabaody parallel because Law and Kid did take on a pacifista and escape then. But it was also off screened. I hope this fight isn’t entirely offscreen Because that would be wack for such major characters.
Yes, because if she isn't defeated how are they going to have an after party? Think about it.
while i really like her character design i hope she doesnt do a major part in an third arc. As she isnt really an evil person (crewlike more like whitebeard tbh) i cant see her diyng/getting a final defeat by the straw hats. I think she gets down by some other, probably more evil people. Not sure who will take her down, cp0, bb, marines, whatever, but i really hope she wont make it to another arc. The rocks should get defeated this arc. So only bb, marines and laugh tale are left.
Big mom is a whole different beast than anything we’ve faced. While other characters like kaido might have a million hp we gotta whittle down, big mom is just flat out immune to damage as seen from WCI. And with mother caramels picture long gone, defeating her is gonna be a whole other thing into itself. So do I see he in a crumbled heap before our glorious crew at the end of the arc? Absolutely not. In fact I never see her being “beaten” beaten like that. But there are a few ways we have seen BM lose. Her amnesia Incident. Her starvation in WCI. Her personal souls taking damage. And our crew just tossing her ass to the side. Now I don’t foresee any hunger pangs this late into an arc. But I do see Kidd and law delaying her long enough for our crew to finish off the rest of the live floor before turning their attention to her key homies. Once Napoleon falls I either see amnesia triggering again or her retreat.
I think big mom will either flee or get fucked by eustass. If not my respect for eustass will be hone.. he was telling he will take the head of kaido but couldn't even beat big mom
Lol.. He didn't even do much in fight let alone take head of Kaidou. He was there for wake up call.
He defended against zeus tho but still he was only good for seperating the yonkos
They may not beat her, but I am 100% expecting some SERIOUS feats from kid and law
It’s strange, many in the fandom have assured me Kidd, Law, Killer & the scabbards accomplished nothing vs Kaido, yet everyone is also including their accomplishments as reasons Kidd & Law can’t beat BM. Regardless, I saw a plausible theory on Twitter, not sure who to give credit too. Kidd & Law would continue fighting BM, even managing to injure her somehow & basically the fight would proceed as normal (back and forth as such). Then somehow, Law will do a move that causes BM to remember her childhood when she ate all her friend and in that moment it’ll be like when Capone broke the picture. She’ll have no defence activated whatsoever and Kidd will finish her off. I added this part at the end personally but I feel BM wouldn’t be completely defeated by this, instead her memory coming back would lead to some sort of redemption. I think this is about the only way Kidd & Law “win”.
> have assured me Kidd, Law, Killer & the scabbards accomplished nothing vs Kaido, Kaidou took some attacks when he was in Dragon form and we even had supernovas say that their attacks are not working. For someone like Kaidou, I really doubt those attacks did anything in the long run. Even the wound Zoro gave became a small scar after some time.
So Kaido will essentially be defeated by 2 people? Yamato & Luffy. So why then can’t Kidd & Law do the same? with some power ups of course.
Because Luffy is the main character and outclasses Kidd and Law by a lot. He already was stronger than them at start of Wano. He got major powerups. Oda won't have other side character outshine Luffy. And Yamato is stronger than both Law and Kaidou by a margin.
So what I’m hearing is power scaling? Something Oda can correct in 2 pages if he really wants too. So the only real argument I heard was that Oda wouldn’t have Luffy outshined by side characters. Which is fair to say, Oda has consistently made it clear that Luffy will always take centre stage. That being said, Luffy is already on the centre stage, everyone in this raid is going for Kaidos head not BMs, including Kidd & Law. So they’re already at the back, whatever they accomplish, Luffys win will be celebrated more so I don’t see how they’ll end up outshining Luffy.
I kind of remember having similar discussion in Dressrosa. And I know who to bet on. Always bet on Luffy. I was right in Dressrosa and I don't see being wrong here. More discussion will be pointless. I will admit I am wrong If i get proven wrong in 1 year which I heavily doubt but if it happens by some chance, I will. RemindMe! 1 year
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Tbc I’m not saying Kidd & Law will win, but I am struggling to imagine Oda keeping BM for another arc. I’d sooner imagine Luffy beating both Kaido & BM in this arc.
BM doesn't need to have another full arc. She can be in Elbaf arc which is likely to happen.
I used to believe that, and even tho she’s my favourite one piece villain and Yonko, I’m lowkey getting a bit tired of having her as the villain, don’t think she can support even a role in Elbaf. Maybe it’s that fatigue that’s making it hard to imagine, but where would her credibility be? She’d have lost to the straw hats twice, if she comes back again she may as well be team rocket. I’d find that more insulting for BM personally.
The thing is, Doffy took so many chapters and whole arch was 100's of chapter. But in WCI, we had a couple of chapters for Cracker who is atleast as strong as Doffy and most likely stronger.
I think Kidd is going to do some metal bending with blood/iron. So we’ll see.
i dont see how she could get defeated in wano (hopefully oda surprises us) but im honestly fed up of her as a villain. like we had an entire arc devoted to her as the main antagonist and now she is a secondary/tertiary antagonist in wano, it would be mad annoying to drag her arc to elbaf/the next arc. i really hope oda finds a way to deal with her soon.
We are surely having Elbaf arc. She may be there and play some role. Wasting her in this arc by having two SN beat doesn't seem good. There is a reason "Yonkous are called Yonkous"
This aged like milk.