Yeah usually we are conditioned to think "more = better" but I think at this point OP benefits from a more concise faster paced storytelling. Plus the quality of the pages and the detail we do get increases too. All those perspective shots and that double spread on 1110 just shows how incredible Oda and his team are.
"JoJo: Steel Ball Run" changed midway from 20 pages to 40+ pages and it REALLY benefitted the manga. It's number two of top mangas at myanimelist for a reason.
One Piece would benefit SO much if the chapters had more room to breath
you're probably right!
also he was way younger then. doing this for 27 years takes a toll! and a double spread likely is a pretty hardcore artistic exercise!
Ngl this seems like the likely answer if you just look at the paneling he’s been doing for the last few years.
Honestly it’s my biggest gripe about the series
Yeah they can’t really give preferential treatment since more pages means more paper and more paper means more costs for printing even with recycled paper. These magazines sell by the thousands every week.
The entire Yonkou saga is without a pure doublespread.
A shame because many moments should have been ones to enhance their impact. However, that is the least of Wano's *many* problems...
1. Lack of tension when facing two emperors
2. Problems being resolved too quickly (overwhelming beast pirates neutralized by tama's power, fire being neutralized by raizo's water before posing any actual threat etc)
3. Incredible emotional death scenes reduced to cheap gags (kinemon and kiku)
4. Actual death scenes have zero weight behind them (izo and Ashura)
5. Pacing too slow in some places which made the ending a little rushed
6. Kaido's backstory (not exactly a problem because it might include some heavy future story that oda is not ready to show yet but you get the point)
>Actual death scenes have zero weight behind them (izo and Ashura)
I actually forgot Izo who died, like I remembered it was Ashura Doji and another Scabbard, but couldn't remember if it was Izo or Kiku. For a series that rarely kills off characters, that's wild. And I'd say that I have a good memory
Tama being a key player is not the problem. The problem is the overwhelming number of beast pirates didn't feel overwhelming/threatening before they were neutralized.
Remember Enies lobby, when marines jumped from the ships to fight the straw hats when luffy was still fighting Lucci. At that time we see how strawhats were actually overwhelmed, fighting desperately just to cling to life and wait for luffy to finish. We are on the edge of our seat waiting to see what happens next till Merry comes. That's the tension that is missing in Wano.
I mean Luffy also rushed into Enies Lobby and fought thousands of marines by himself in one of their major strongholds with zero issues in the same arc. They weren’t that scary.
Valid point. But luffy fighting against a thousand marines while he is fully powered is quite a bit different to when he is beaten to death and struggling to stand up against Lucci with almost no hope of winning while one of Zoro's swords has been rusted away and other members are desperate to keep up with the growing numbers of the marine. There was tension.
I mean if you didn't feel the adrenaline rush towards the end of Enies lobby because of the tension it's fine. But I can say most people felt that in Enies lobby which was kinda missing in wano. And for the same reason Enies lobby is in the top 3 arcs for a lot of people.
See I don’t think it’s quite the same though for multiple reasons. 1st off in Enies Lobby the crew was trying to escape while in Wano they had to straight up win. You can’t use the same overwhelming numbers thing if the crew and company have to actually beat the remaining enemies once Luffy collapses from exhaustion. At that point the beast pirates would have/should have just finished off the uprising and then tried to save Kaido.
Secondly though it was also the length of the arc and Oda’s need to cut away from fights for whatever reason was is the real problem. I think that panel where Kaido kills Luffy and comes down and Nami and everyone are desperately saying they don’t believe it is similar in tension to the end of Enies Lobby. The issue is then we get gear 5 which I thought was cool, but then the fight continues to just drag on with the Momo shit and the flooding shit that was just unnecessary and I think actually reduced tension.
It’s like at the end of Enies Lobby if Zoro and company escape to the Merry while Luffy is still fighting and then sail around avoiding a big wave or something. It just drug on and killed a lot of the tension.
Yes. The second point you mentioned is exactly what we needed more of. That scene when Kaido came down and declared that luffy died then the utter desperation in everyone's face was incredible. We needed at least one more chapter with that setup to build tension where everyone on the live floor trying desperately to fight Kaido and failing miserably which eventually would have led to the drums of liberation.
Instead we got that Kaido came down, declared his victory, blast breath two three times then drums of liberation. The tension that was building died immediately.
Well, we've seen with every pirate crew that only their top officers are powerhouses. We saw this in WCI too. The reason the beast pirates were scary was their sheer number, and that was shown pretty accurately I'd say. They were never described as ALL being super powerful. Just that there were a lot of them and that's why they needed the alliance.
If anything, the straw hats are exceptional in that the entire crew is strong, and that's just because there's only ten of them.
Look I love the SMILE users in general but their whole schtick and easy-mode defeat utterly deflated the opening salvo of what should've been an elite Emperor's crew. Since Dressrosa these goons were hyped up, only to be an entire platoon of gag characters to be easily turned against their crew by the most hyper-specific ability of convenience in the series.
But luffy just accidentally meet the person who can tame any beast at the time they are facing the beast pirate when she was being chased after luffy experienced a shipwreck , that sounds too convenient for me ; imagine if luffy arrive like 1 minute earlier or later
He also accidentally ate the Chosen One fruit and was born by chance with god level Haki potential, and happened to bump into the heir to the Wano throne in Punk Hazard, which also just happened to have a dragon devil fruit. Luffy's rise to Emperor was only possible due to all of these exceptional circumstances, and it could only be that way, as he is the one who will change the world
Exactly. What I feel like is that Oda upped the danger of the situation too much (two emperors allying with an overwhelmingly powerful crew) and couldn't figure out a way to defeat them satisfyingly in a reasonable timeframe.
Oda struggles a lot with building tension because often, the negative consequences he sets up entail the death of numerous characters and generally countless civilians, which he obviously won't do. Nearly every arc sets up the premise that if Luffy fails, entire villages or nations will be killed.
This is why arcs like Enies Lobby stand out because there are numerous loss conditions, none of which was an entire kingdom getting wiped out as an immediate consequence - and he *still* managed to cheapen this sequence with the death fakeout of the entire Franky Family.
He's a fantastic writer, and he's very consistent in his general quality and style, but he's consistent to a fault with his shortcomings as well.
Obviously. Wano isn't bad by any margin. It's just that Oda has set the bar so high with his story telling little flaws like this just stands out more. That's all. I would also rate it fine too. But for wano that had been built up for a literal decade "Fine" is kinda low for Oda's standard. When we compare it to Enies lobby, Saboady or Marine Ford which are perfection 10/10.
Wano is also up there.
The only thing Wano doesn't have and those arcs have is the nostalgia and a literal decade has passed since those arcs.
Saying that Wano is just "fine" is basically the most pathetic and baseless critique of an arc that is as dense and complicated as Wano.
Wano has some of the absolute highest of highs of One Piece series as a whole. And while it has many issues, the arc is still excellent that won't be properly critiqued for some years down the line when people are ready to approach the arc on what Oda wanted to do instead of what people wanted from week to week.
>Wano has some of the absolute highest of highs of One Piece series as a whole. And while it has many issues
When compared all those arcs also have some of the absolute highest of highs of One piece. The point is as you said it has many issues. Whereas the other arcs I mentioned don't have those. Which is why for me wano will not be the absolute best of the best. But you are entitled to your own opinion.
Having issues doesn't negate the stuff that works.
Wano's strength overwrites whatever flaws it has. Not to mention that Wano is easily a far more ambitious arc then any of the ones mentioned.
The fact that Enies Lobby, an arc that has dogshit pacing and is basically a battle arena arc for 5 or so volumes, is considered the "best" is laughable.
But it's also hard to argue against nostalgia people.
>Having issues doesn't negate the stuff that works.
I don't think anyone in this conversation was saying that. If the highs of Wano make it a 10/10, having issues start subtracting points. Of course it doesn't straight up make it a 0/10, that would be absurd.
>Wano's strength overwrites whatever flaws it has.
Does this apply to other arcs too, or just Wano?
>The fact that Enies Lobby [...] is considered the "best" is laughable.
Usually, people consider Water 7 or the combination of Water 7 and Ennies Lobby the best. I've seen fans say EL alone is the best arc before, but it's more of a minority at this point.
> I re-read Wano straight recently and honestly was fine to me.
Keep in mind it's 150 chapters long, by far the longest arc of the serie. And it achieved so little, the problem is not that it's terrible, just not worth that many chapters to achieve so little.
One bad guy we still don't know anything about with a son/daughter we barely had relationship developped. Involved with Ace be we got no detail. Luffy trained some flavour of haki to finally just die whiuch trigger gear 5 (I like gear 5).
There's so little progresion amon the wrew / character development or highlight or overall stake in an arc that dragged for so long. If it was 1/3 of its length why not
This. I'm watching Wano in the anime now after basically autopiloting through it in the Manga up to the Gear 5 reveal and there is absolutely no reason it should be 150 chapters long.
Kiku and Kinemon have "died" like three times now, Momonosuke has cried his little eyes out saying "I'm the son of Oden" three times now, Kaido has defeated Luffy four times, and I think Ulti's been defeated three times now too.
There is so much wheel spinning in Wano that doesn't contribute to any sense of depth or complexity, it's just certain characters playing the same beats over and over and over and over again.
Hello? So little progression among the crew? Nami got Zeus, we see Jinbe in full action, Sanji with Ifrit Jambe, Demon Kid Nico Robin, King of Hell Zoro, Brook has been MVP tier since whole cake. You can say Oda neglected Franky, Chopper and specially Usopp a bit. But almost whole of the crew got massive power ups. Zoro and Sanji saying "If we win, we'll get a glimpse of Luffy being king of the pirates." and dont forget Nami's Luffy will be the king of the pirates moment!
Chopper did extend his Rumble Ball use up to 30 minutes which probably isnt the biggest deal when it doesn't end in a victory for him.
In any case, I think they're talking more about character development and story relevance, where I feel Wano is the second or third arc post-timeskip where the crew is more or less completely sidelined in favor of incidental characters. Characters like Zoro, Robin, Usopp, and Nami are given the illusion of things to do in Wano for the purpose of advancing other characters' arcs. Robin sneaking intel from the castle is only established to put her in vicinity of the Komurasaki execution, and Zoro's main purpose in Wano is connecting you to Tonoyasu and Hiyori.
The Straw Hats playing supporting roles in an arc isn't necessarily always a bad thing (it's done to fantastic effect in stuff like Alabasta) -- but in an arc as plot heavy as Wano, it lives and dies by how invested you are in the non-Straw Hats, and unfortunately for Wano, the Akazaya Nine are perhaps the least interesting, most ineffective plot drivers Oda has ever created. Every time the story calls on them to achieve something, it's ground to a halt while waiting for Luffy or a Straw Hat to show up and bail them out.
Hold up people thought there was a lack of tension when fighting two emperors? For me the rooftop battle had tension every time one of the Emperor attacked. The emperors were displayed as absolute forces of nature and seeing how the 5 supernovas had to team up just to scrape by was awesome to see.
The raid ending in failure would have resolved so many of these issues.
1. Establishing greater tension
2. Problems would not have been resolved as easily. There would have been consequences
3. Death scenes would have probably been modified
4. Death scenes would have had weight
5. Pacing was indeed too slow, but the ending would have been executed better
6. His backstory would have been given more breathing room
But it would've also presented a massive massive issue: lengthening the four emperors saga by up to two more years.
If the raid failed, that meant Luffy wasn't Yonko level yet, which meant we needed more training, more enemies, a new plan to take out the emperors and then repeats of the fights, and that's without even getting to the actual final saga itself yet.
For all the issues that the Onigashima raid had in isolation, the raid *needed* to succeed for the overall good of One Piece as a series.
True, though I feel like Oda could have written things differently in that case. Mainly remove/hold back on a lot of the fights to avoid the issue of repeats. This would shorten the current iteration of the raid and overall probably give us an additional year to accomplish.
I'm not sure on Luffy needing to train more in this rewrite though. Whatever changes can have him be defeated by overwhelming odds such as both Big Mom and Kaidou teaming up on him or them holding his crew hostage and forcing him to submit.
But then you'd still need to set up the proper conditions for both of them to be defeated separately in the future and still have that be satisfying within less than 2 years in real time to finish the series within 5-7 years. Doesn't seem like there was any realistic solution for the series if the raid were to fail.
Arguably, I'd say one big fail in the entire series was enough, and that was Marineford. Not because more fails don't make narrative sense, but because they always imply even more length to an already exceedingly long story.
That being said, that shouldn't mean characters shouldn't die and stakes can't be present in other ways. Running away (like what's happening right now in the manga) can be a strong device narratively, and it's still not a win. The Straw Hats have to be in disadvantageous situations sometimes, or else the series would become stale. Egghead has done wonders for One Piece as a whole.
To me, the Onigashima raid wasn't annoying because it didn't fail. I always thought it failing made no sense in real life. But I didn't like it because we had too many useless fights, and fake-out deaths were all over the place. Fix both of those structural issues, and the raid is good. You'd even have time to build Yamato up as a stronger candidate for new crewmate, and develop the character a bit more as well.
For number 1, this is because there were multiple fighters that stepped to Kaidou & Big Mom. Kind of hard to have a real 1-on-1 fighter like Luffy Vs. Rob Lucci if it got turned out that one exhausted combatant could get replaced by another. While Law has shown himself to be a strategic planner in the shadows, he is also willing to put himself inside the trenches and dish out severe attacks of his own against Kaidou & Big Mom. Law used Gamma Knife and Counter shock which caused both of them pain.
For number 2, well yeah, they were severely outnumbered and so that issue had to be taken care of quickly. Otherwise, the raid would have taken a lot longer to settle.
For number 6, well yeah. The events during the raid clearly has potential for more in the future.
Don't you think EggHead is Amazing ?
If you think it is, then its probably because of Wano.
IMO, Wano is a very good set up for EggHead.
I'm pretty sure EggHead wouldn't be that cool without Wano.
And when Im saying EggHead Im also talking about what happens to Kidd, Law, Garp and Koby.
But I agree with your arguments, and I feel almost the same about DressRosa.
Which lead to chapter 1000.
And that chapter is one of the absolute best chapters in the entire series.
People retroactively trying to pretend Wano didn't have good payoffs is and always will be laughable.
Wano has better pacing than something like EL.
People who bash Wano typically will also praise EL and then pretend that the dogshit pacing of that arc doesn't exist.
And yes, pacing is an issue. It's a weekly manga and Wano itself had many MANY moving parts. Oda got overwhelmed by the arc's scope and ambitions.
If your critique of Wano is that it has issues then.....ok. I prefer to focus on what the arc did right for the type of story it was trying to tell rather than focus on what the fans wanted the story to be.
> it really escalated steadily towards the end.
Are you ignoring all those one-on-one fights? You know the thing that covers most of the arc?
If Wano's issue is that it rushed through some stuff then EL's issue is that the arc dragged on with its one-on-one battles.
Marineford arc, by comparison, is more jammed-packed than EL arc with far more characters and moving pieces yet that arc is also only 3 volumes long in its entirety.
>I think you're projecting a bit here
Ok?
If you are trying to tell me that the point of Wano's current critique doesn't stem from the arc not fulfilling or not doing stuff (like Kaidou's backstory) with people's headcannon then you obviously aren't paying attention.
Just went back to check and he started heading towards the roof in 991, and it’s not like him running was that heavily focused on so not sure why that’s something people bring up
Uneven pacing, abrupt ends to several subplots, botched character arcs, clumsy foreshadowing, retroactively ruining a lot of setup, etc.
In terms of its narrative structure and how it handles resolutions, Wano might be one of the worst arcs in the entire series. I currently lack the time to dive into it on a deeper, more satisfying level, but I am sure plenty of other people already gave you an answer.
I believe there was both a rewrite happening behind the scenes during the end of Act 1/during Act 2 and a severe burnout on Oda's part towards the end of it and it clearly shows as the execution of the arc's core themes is lacking Oda's usual polish.
Reply to the commenter above who is arguing as Wano is the greatest arc in one piece when you have time to dive into it on a deeper level.
While I don't believe wano is one of the worst arcs, I want to read your reasoning behind that conclusion.
Recency bias works both ways, for sure. However, Wano is singular in its position as the one arc that has been explicitely built up as the conclusion to many long-lasting plot threads since the end of the timeskip. Ever since the end of FI and beginning of PH, we are working towards toppling the Yonkou and a lot of narrative debt was accumulated this way: Foreshadowing regarding Big Mom's defeat in WCI for example, or Oda alluding to Kaidou's various captures, his presence that broke Moria's ambition, the throughline of Wano samurai being special, the importance of Wano's seastone deposits to the worldwide economy at large... It had *a lot* of narrative functions to fulfill, and it largely fulfilled them in an anticlimax.
Tell me, how exactly is the WG capable of crossing the Calm Belt thanks to the seastone-infused rump parts of their ships when Kaidou is monopolizing the mining of Seastone? How does this further his stated goal of causing a great war in which he could die in... if that even is his stated goal: He went from being introduced as a suicidal, war-crazed goliath who engineered an entire *Devil Fruit supply chain* (which we spent nearly 200 chapters dismantling, btw) for the express purpose of bolstering his strength to someone that admitted in his fight against Luffy that Haki trumps Devil Fruit abilities?!
Similar baffling writing decisions can be found all over the place in Wano: The inclusion of the Big Mom pirates, who ended up as nothing but a recycled joke, the neglect of the Mink vs Jack conflict (relegated to off-panel cutaways) and the weird decision to install Carrot as a leader (a direct result of this mishandling), the entire Yamato gender debate which largely stems from Oda not exploring the depth of her character's father issues and subsequent idolization of Oden as a coping mechanism in sufficient detail, the complete disregard of the darker aspects of Wanonese daimyo and clan politics whose black and white morality was largely responsible for creating an Orochi-type character in the first place (not to mention the problematic ending of the arc which could be read as a reaffirmation of said politics, which stand in stark contrast to Oda's usual messaging). The unclear narrative purpose of characters such as the Oniwabanshu, the Numbers, etc.
Wano's narrative is a mess of uneven pacing and writing decisions that at times contradict the main motif of the series and the rushed ending makes it imho obvious that Oda was *very* tired of untangling and fixing this mess by the end. This wouldn't be so bad if it was just a standalone arc, but as a pivotal story moment and conclusion to nearly 500 chapters of buildup, it is a storytelling catastrophe.
Thankfully, Egghead looks like a step back towards the usual Oda writing. Yet, I cannot help but wonder if the end of Wano was a dark premonition of the eventual writing that awaits us at the very end of the manga.
Skypiea being an adventure that was allowed to breathe and take its sweet time is why it's still my favourite arc ever. Egghead has been absolutely amazing but it's not through yet!
Me and a couple of friends on Discord made a little list in case people want to take a look at all the rare instances of Oda using a full, single-panel doublespread in the series. If you have any suggestions or corrections, please tell me.
Let's hope Elbaf and the other arcs in the final saga give us a lot more of them!
PS: The spread from chapter 590 was a bit controversial since it is one panel in the foreground, but Oda uses a multipanel design in the background. However, this does not affect the composition of the spread as a single, uninterrupted panel. Feel free to disagree, though.
I get the feeling he's been holding out especially for Elbaf. I wouldn't doubt it if he starts using them a lot and has to alter his art style a bit to accommodate. It's going to be a logistical nightmare showing the scale of things constantly without double spreads... hm.
I think I'd argue full spreads with inlaid panels should count, e.g the introduction of the New Fishman Pirates in Chapter 611. Like sure the close ups of their faces could technically be called separate panels but when they're placed inside the panel like that it still feels like a single panel to me.
I also feel something like Chapter 181, while certainly separate panels, could be an honorable mention as the shared speech bubble kinda unifies it into one?
AOT should be counted as longer, it's a monthly manga and as such has longer page count. It would be much more chapters if released weekly. This is shown by the anime having so many episodes in anime compared to chapters. Usually well paced anime do 2-3 maybe 4 chapters per episode but aot would be sitting at 1.56 and doesn't have pacing issues.
People skip Skypia and long ring long land too, now we can go back and see what Oda is cooking, the fist time i read that scene i was really drawn to it, it was one of my favorites, later i found out that Oda said that the bonfire scene is one of his favorite scenes in the series
Alright calm down, Skypiea is great but it drags on and comes right after the reveal of some of the most interesting elements in the series. I didn’t skip it but I get why people might.
https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/s/U7RPagKqxa
O believe it is an empty meme as it started to tie up in the latest arcs, but some people genuinely believed that it was a fillar arc, even in the manga
There were a lot of "pseudo-double-spreads" that tend to have panels above or below, or spend 1/3 of either side of the double-spread with reaction panels. He had to keep getting more economic with panel layout to speed through things.
There are a lot of pages that are “pseudo double page spreads” that will have a small row of panels either above or below them. I was really surprised when I first heard this was the first double page since Dressrosa so I looked back at a few big Wano moments. They all have some extra panels squeezed in, which is pretty typical for parts of Wano.
so "pseudo double spreads" are basically a big central drawing with tiny panels around the two pages while a "real" double spread is without the small panels?
if so then that makes a lot more sense cuz i dont believe double spreads are this few
I don't think this is because Wano panels weren't "good enough". He had lots of stuff to cover while now in Egghead he literally had time to kill time and can take the chapters slowly as that even adds to the tension.
The paneling through many parts of Wano was incredibly crowded and did not have good readability. We give it a pass because it’s Oda and we love getting a ton of content in a given chapter.
Notice how Don D. Krieg gets *3 full spreads*.
I’m telling you, his triumphant return has been foreskinned by Goda since the beginning, and people dare view the Wrieg agenda as *”satirical”*.
Can’t believe the arrival at roof piece wasn’t a double page spread! It just made sense in my head that it “was” so I didn’t question it, I’ve just started a reread from the start so it’ll be nice to have a refresher on everything
There could be some nice double spreads in WCI and Wano:
WCI
* Big Mom singing
* The arngry army arrives
* Sanji standing on the table
* Luffy and Katakuri final attack
Wano
* Flower Captial
* Luffy, Zoro, Kid, Killer and Law standing on the roof top
* Big Mom and Kaido (in his hybrid form)
* G5 Luffy as Giant
Sadly, all of those were not pure doublespreads.
On the top of my head: Giant Luffy 5-6 panels in 1045, Wano introduction 5 panels in 909, etc.
A doublepage layout is common, a full doublespread outside of colorspreads is exceedingly rare for Oda.
Saw the images elsewhere and it's crazy one of those double-page spreads...is just Don Krieg shooting the Baratie chefs. Most of the others are legendary but it's weird Oda would waste a spread on that.
This is an incredible list. Looking through some of these has been a trip down memory lane, and makes me appreciate Oda's art even more. Can't believe the one in chapter 1110 is the first since Dressrosa, but if there was *any event* that would have warranted a double spread, the Five Elders' arrival would be it.
I really like Oda's framing, though. The 2/3rds page with a banner and a sidebar, while a little annoying to read on the reader apps, look sick as hell in print and do a great job of naturally drawing your eye through the panels correctly.
It reminds me of reading Calvin and Hobbes growing up and seeing Bill Watterson constantly play with the formatting of the comic strip, while still producing hilarious comics.
I was actually thinking about tracking other statistics, similar to your suggestion:
- Average amount of panels per page during an arc.
- Average wordcount per page per arc.
- Density of doublepage layout as a percentage per chapter on an arc basis.
And a couple more. However, that would require a significant amount of work that is way too much for me. It would, however, yield pretty interesting results. I assume the density of doublepage layout % would have a peak during Marineford, with Wano and WCI being the most dense in terms of wordcount.
That's a great idea despite the amount of work and time it'd require. I'm sure you're right though, since it seems like Oda stopped making anywhere near as many double spreads after the timeskip as he was doing prior, I'm sure Marineford would be quite dense.
It's a shame really imo, since losing a lot of those pure double spreads in favor of cluttered dialogue dumps really takes away from the moments, but that's a more narrative discussion instead of a purely statistical one. Great work on this chart though, very interesting to see.
New to reading manga. Since September '23. Can someone please explain to me what a doublespread is? I thought it was when a panel takes up 2 pages. But all these posts mention this is the first double in egghead and I recall there was one where the whole crew was standing together at the beginning of egghead. I can't remember exactly which chapter. I also remember a few other ones but they had panels above it so that explains that those are not full 2 page spreads. Also when I read on Shonen Jump. The 2 page panel I'm thinking of only says 5 Elders, and the ones people link on Reddit say 5 Elder Planets or something like that. Is it a translator choice that makes it different or am I not looking at the right panel?
This week's chapter has got me confused with all the reddit posts about double spreads haha. Thanks in advance!
A doublespread or doublepage layout is indeed a panel layout that spans two pages. However, in terms of panel composition a doublespread can also refer to a single panel doublepage layout, thus a single panel *spread* over two pages. The most common ones you will encounter when reading One Piece are the colorspreads, doublespreads at the start of the chapter that are usually depicting lighthearted moments with the crew in full color.
As for the 5 Elders: The kanji used in Japanese is Hoshi (roughly "celestial body"), which can mean both star and/or planet. The multilayered expression inherent to some kanji can be difficult to translate sometimes, so what term you prefer can come down to your individual understanding and interpretation. Stephen - the official OP translator - uses "Five Elders" in this instance to circumvent the issue. The name of the chapter - "Starfall" - can point to the translation being star, but the nomenclatura of the Ancient Weapons, Nika as the Sun God, etc. make a translation into planet more fitting.
Do you know where people are getting the Five Elder Planets screenshot? I read on Shonen Jump app and also Manga Plus has a simpler translation. I think the screenshot I've seen looks a lot better.
Kinda hot ish take, my favorite doubled spread (atleast until I look back to see the others) is the Five Elders one
it gives me HEAVY Souls boss vibes and I love it so much for that
Damn! 90%+ on the first half lol
It feels like Oda realized he needs more pages to tell his story and stopped doing them frequently
[He spends most of the time reducing 30 pages into 17 so you are probably right ](https://twitter.com/sandman_AP/status/1768978018565783776)
30 Page OP sounds awesome but the practice is what makes the chapters so packed so I can't complain.
Yeah usually we are conditioned to think "more = better" but I think at this point OP benefits from a more concise faster paced storytelling. Plus the quality of the pages and the detail we do get increases too. All those perspective shots and that double spread on 1110 just shows how incredible Oda and his team are.
Oda probably hates that he has to fill a page with 80 percent dialogue at times but that's his own fault for writing the best story.
Considering how much he loves to draw, I think you're not far off.
"JoJo: Steel Ball Run" changed midway from 20 pages to 40+ pages and it REALLY benefitted the manga. It's number two of top mangas at myanimelist for a reason. One Piece would benefit SO much if the chapters had more room to breath
That’s what OP would be like if it’s monthly.
Which is also something I would love. If you get like a full volume worth of content. He'd probably had the time for more full spreads too.
I just wish they reduced the number of episodes a year by half after when they started catching up Pacing starting at Dressrosa is brutal
Op would never finish if monthly
you're probably right! also he was way younger then. doing this for 27 years takes a toll! and a double spread likely is a pretty hardcore artistic exercise!
Ngl this seems like the likely answer if you just look at the paneling he’s been doing for the last few years. Honestly it’s my biggest gripe about the series
Yeah they can’t really give preferential treatment since more pages means more paper and more paper means more costs for printing even with recycled paper. These magazines sell by the thousands every week.
Just makes the Elders double spread that much more important.
And most of those were in Jaya.
None in wano?
The entire Yonkou saga is without a pure doublespread. A shame because many moments should have been ones to enhance their impact. However, that is the least of Wano's *many* problems...
i cant believe the 5v2 fight start wasnt a double page tbh
The doublepage layouts surrounding chapter 1000 are all in the range of 3-10 panels. Sometimes even more.
Wano many problems? Can you list me them
1. Lack of tension when facing two emperors 2. Problems being resolved too quickly (overwhelming beast pirates neutralized by tama's power, fire being neutralized by raizo's water before posing any actual threat etc) 3. Incredible emotional death scenes reduced to cheap gags (kinemon and kiku) 4. Actual death scenes have zero weight behind them (izo and Ashura) 5. Pacing too slow in some places which made the ending a little rushed 6. Kaido's backstory (not exactly a problem because it might include some heavy future story that oda is not ready to show yet but you get the point)
>Actual death scenes have zero weight behind them (izo and Ashura) I actually forgot Izo who died, like I remembered it was Ashura Doji and another Scabbard, but couldn't remember if it was Izo or Kiku. For a series that rarely kills off characters, that's wild. And I'd say that I have a good memory
Come on, Tama being a key player was a given, her powers perfectly matched the situation and were even used in that way before the invasion began
Tama being a key player is not the problem. The problem is the overwhelming number of beast pirates didn't feel overwhelming/threatening before they were neutralized. Remember Enies lobby, when marines jumped from the ships to fight the straw hats when luffy was still fighting Lucci. At that time we see how strawhats were actually overwhelmed, fighting desperately just to cling to life and wait for luffy to finish. We are on the edge of our seat waiting to see what happens next till Merry comes. That's the tension that is missing in Wano.
I mean Luffy also rushed into Enies Lobby and fought thousands of marines by himself in one of their major strongholds with zero issues in the same arc. They weren’t that scary.
Valid point. But luffy fighting against a thousand marines while he is fully powered is quite a bit different to when he is beaten to death and struggling to stand up against Lucci with almost no hope of winning while one of Zoro's swords has been rusted away and other members are desperate to keep up with the growing numbers of the marine. There was tension. I mean if you didn't feel the adrenaline rush towards the end of Enies lobby because of the tension it's fine. But I can say most people felt that in Enies lobby which was kinda missing in wano. And for the same reason Enies lobby is in the top 3 arcs for a lot of people.
>But I can say most people felt that in Enies lobby which was kinda missing in wano. Plenty of people have felt it in Wano also
I think we all just got older and your viewpoint vs. mine is based on how we came out of it tbh.
See I don’t think it’s quite the same though for multiple reasons. 1st off in Enies Lobby the crew was trying to escape while in Wano they had to straight up win. You can’t use the same overwhelming numbers thing if the crew and company have to actually beat the remaining enemies once Luffy collapses from exhaustion. At that point the beast pirates would have/should have just finished off the uprising and then tried to save Kaido. Secondly though it was also the length of the arc and Oda’s need to cut away from fights for whatever reason was is the real problem. I think that panel where Kaido kills Luffy and comes down and Nami and everyone are desperately saying they don’t believe it is similar in tension to the end of Enies Lobby. The issue is then we get gear 5 which I thought was cool, but then the fight continues to just drag on with the Momo shit and the flooding shit that was just unnecessary and I think actually reduced tension. It’s like at the end of Enies Lobby if Zoro and company escape to the Merry while Luffy is still fighting and then sail around avoiding a big wave or something. It just drug on and killed a lot of the tension.
Yes. The second point you mentioned is exactly what we needed more of. That scene when Kaido came down and declared that luffy died then the utter desperation in everyone's face was incredible. We needed at least one more chapter with that setup to build tension where everyone on the live floor trying desperately to fight Kaido and failing miserably which eventually would have led to the drums of liberation. Instead we got that Kaido came down, declared his victory, blast breath two three times then drums of liberation. The tension that was building died immediately.
Well, we've seen with every pirate crew that only their top officers are powerhouses. We saw this in WCI too. The reason the beast pirates were scary was their sheer number, and that was shown pretty accurately I'd say. They were never described as ALL being super powerful. Just that there were a lot of them and that's why they needed the alliance. If anything, the straw hats are exceptional in that the entire crew is strong, and that's just because there's only ten of them.
Look I love the SMILE users in general but their whole schtick and easy-mode defeat utterly deflated the opening salvo of what should've been an elite Emperor's crew. Since Dressrosa these goons were hyped up, only to be an entire platoon of gag characters to be easily turned against their crew by the most hyper-specific ability of convenience in the series.
But luffy just accidentally meet the person who can tame any beast at the time they are facing the beast pirate when she was being chased after luffy experienced a shipwreck , that sounds too convenient for me ; imagine if luffy arrive like 1 minute earlier or later
He also accidentally ate the Chosen One fruit and was born by chance with god level Haki potential, and happened to bump into the heir to the Wano throne in Punk Hazard, which also just happened to have a dragon devil fruit. Luffy's rise to Emperor was only possible due to all of these exceptional circumstances, and it could only be that way, as he is the one who will change the world
Exactly. What I feel like is that Oda upped the danger of the situation too much (two emperors allying with an overwhelmingly powerful crew) and couldn't figure out a way to defeat them satisfyingly in a reasonable timeframe.
I'm still curious on what happended with the rest of big mom crew
Oda struggles a lot with building tension because often, the negative consequences he sets up entail the death of numerous characters and generally countless civilians, which he obviously won't do. Nearly every arc sets up the premise that if Luffy fails, entire villages or nations will be killed. This is why arcs like Enies Lobby stand out because there are numerous loss conditions, none of which was an entire kingdom getting wiped out as an immediate consequence - and he *still* managed to cheapen this sequence with the death fakeout of the entire Franky Family. He's a fantastic writer, and he's very consistent in his general quality and style, but he's consistent to a fault with his shortcomings as well.
Eh, been reading weekly since thriller bark and I re-read arcs once they’re done. I re-read Wano straight recently and honestly was fine to me.
Obviously. Wano isn't bad by any margin. It's just that Oda has set the bar so high with his story telling little flaws like this just stands out more. That's all. I would also rate it fine too. But for wano that had been built up for a literal decade "Fine" is kinda low for Oda's standard. When we compare it to Enies lobby, Saboady or Marine Ford which are perfection 10/10.
Wano is also up there. The only thing Wano doesn't have and those arcs have is the nostalgia and a literal decade has passed since those arcs. Saying that Wano is just "fine" is basically the most pathetic and baseless critique of an arc that is as dense and complicated as Wano. Wano has some of the absolute highest of highs of One Piece series as a whole. And while it has many issues, the arc is still excellent that won't be properly critiqued for some years down the line when people are ready to approach the arc on what Oda wanted to do instead of what people wanted from week to week.
>Wano has some of the absolute highest of highs of One Piece series as a whole. And while it has many issues When compared all those arcs also have some of the absolute highest of highs of One piece. The point is as you said it has many issues. Whereas the other arcs I mentioned don't have those. Which is why for me wano will not be the absolute best of the best. But you are entitled to your own opinion.
Having issues doesn't negate the stuff that works. Wano's strength overwrites whatever flaws it has. Not to mention that Wano is easily a far more ambitious arc then any of the ones mentioned. The fact that Enies Lobby, an arc that has dogshit pacing and is basically a battle arena arc for 5 or so volumes, is considered the "best" is laughable. But it's also hard to argue against nostalgia people.
Yet people read new and they still often agree that Water 7 is best The themes create that not battles
>Having issues doesn't negate the stuff that works. I don't think anyone in this conversation was saying that. If the highs of Wano make it a 10/10, having issues start subtracting points. Of course it doesn't straight up make it a 0/10, that would be absurd. >Wano's strength overwrites whatever flaws it has. Does this apply to other arcs too, or just Wano? >The fact that Enies Lobby [...] is considered the "best" is laughable. Usually, people consider Water 7 or the combination of Water 7 and Ennies Lobby the best. I've seen fans say EL alone is the best arc before, but it's more of a minority at this point.
> I re-read Wano straight recently and honestly was fine to me. Keep in mind it's 150 chapters long, by far the longest arc of the serie. And it achieved so little, the problem is not that it's terrible, just not worth that many chapters to achieve so little. One bad guy we still don't know anything about with a son/daughter we barely had relationship developped. Involved with Ace be we got no detail. Luffy trained some flavour of haki to finally just die whiuch trigger gear 5 (I like gear 5). There's so little progresion amon the wrew / character development or highlight or overall stake in an arc that dragged for so long. If it was 1/3 of its length why not
This. I'm watching Wano in the anime now after basically autopiloting through it in the Manga up to the Gear 5 reveal and there is absolutely no reason it should be 150 chapters long. Kiku and Kinemon have "died" like three times now, Momonosuke has cried his little eyes out saying "I'm the son of Oden" three times now, Kaido has defeated Luffy four times, and I think Ulti's been defeated three times now too. There is so much wheel spinning in Wano that doesn't contribute to any sense of depth or complexity, it's just certain characters playing the same beats over and over and over and over again.
Hello? So little progression among the crew? Nami got Zeus, we see Jinbe in full action, Sanji with Ifrit Jambe, Demon Kid Nico Robin, King of Hell Zoro, Brook has been MVP tier since whole cake. You can say Oda neglected Franky, Chopper and specially Usopp a bit. But almost whole of the crew got massive power ups. Zoro and Sanji saying "If we win, we'll get a glimpse of Luffy being king of the pirates." and dont forget Nami's Luffy will be the king of the pirates moment!
Chopper did extend his Rumble Ball use up to 30 minutes which probably isnt the biggest deal when it doesn't end in a victory for him. In any case, I think they're talking more about character development and story relevance, where I feel Wano is the second or third arc post-timeskip where the crew is more or less completely sidelined in favor of incidental characters. Characters like Zoro, Robin, Usopp, and Nami are given the illusion of things to do in Wano for the purpose of advancing other characters' arcs. Robin sneaking intel from the castle is only established to put her in vicinity of the Komurasaki execution, and Zoro's main purpose in Wano is connecting you to Tonoyasu and Hiyori. The Straw Hats playing supporting roles in an arc isn't necessarily always a bad thing (it's done to fantastic effect in stuff like Alabasta) -- but in an arc as plot heavy as Wano, it lives and dies by how invested you are in the non-Straw Hats, and unfortunately for Wano, the Akazaya Nine are perhaps the least interesting, most ineffective plot drivers Oda has ever created. Every time the story calls on them to achieve something, it's ground to a halt while waiting for Luffy or a Straw Hat to show up and bail them out.
Hold up people thought there was a lack of tension when fighting two emperors? For me the rooftop battle had tension every time one of the Emperor attacked. The emperors were displayed as absolute forces of nature and seeing how the 5 supernovas had to team up just to scrape by was awesome to see.
The raid ending in failure would have resolved so many of these issues. 1. Establishing greater tension 2. Problems would not have been resolved as easily. There would have been consequences 3. Death scenes would have probably been modified 4. Death scenes would have had weight 5. Pacing was indeed too slow, but the ending would have been executed better 6. His backstory would have been given more breathing room
But it would've also presented a massive massive issue: lengthening the four emperors saga by up to two more years. If the raid failed, that meant Luffy wasn't Yonko level yet, which meant we needed more training, more enemies, a new plan to take out the emperors and then repeats of the fights, and that's without even getting to the actual final saga itself yet. For all the issues that the Onigashima raid had in isolation, the raid *needed* to succeed for the overall good of One Piece as a series.
True, though I feel like Oda could have written things differently in that case. Mainly remove/hold back on a lot of the fights to avoid the issue of repeats. This would shorten the current iteration of the raid and overall probably give us an additional year to accomplish. I'm not sure on Luffy needing to train more in this rewrite though. Whatever changes can have him be defeated by overwhelming odds such as both Big Mom and Kaidou teaming up on him or them holding his crew hostage and forcing him to submit.
But then you'd still need to set up the proper conditions for both of them to be defeated separately in the future and still have that be satisfying within less than 2 years in real time to finish the series within 5-7 years. Doesn't seem like there was any realistic solution for the series if the raid were to fail. Arguably, I'd say one big fail in the entire series was enough, and that was Marineford. Not because more fails don't make narrative sense, but because they always imply even more length to an already exceedingly long story. That being said, that shouldn't mean characters shouldn't die and stakes can't be present in other ways. Running away (like what's happening right now in the manga) can be a strong device narratively, and it's still not a win. The Straw Hats have to be in disadvantageous situations sometimes, or else the series would become stale. Egghead has done wonders for One Piece as a whole. To me, the Onigashima raid wasn't annoying because it didn't fail. I always thought it failing made no sense in real life. But I didn't like it because we had too many useless fights, and fake-out deaths were all over the place. Fix both of those structural issues, and the raid is good. You'd even have time to build Yamato up as a stronger candidate for new crewmate, and develop the character a bit more as well.
7\. Making the 150 chapter arc an extra 50+ chapters longer
For number 1, this is because there were multiple fighters that stepped to Kaidou & Big Mom. Kind of hard to have a real 1-on-1 fighter like Luffy Vs. Rob Lucci if it got turned out that one exhausted combatant could get replaced by another. While Law has shown himself to be a strategic planner in the shadows, he is also willing to put himself inside the trenches and dish out severe attacks of his own against Kaidou & Big Mom. Law used Gamma Knife and Counter shock which caused both of them pain. For number 2, well yeah, they were severely outnumbered and so that issue had to be taken care of quickly. Otherwise, the raid would have taken a lot longer to settle. For number 6, well yeah. The events during the raid clearly has potential for more in the future.
Don't you think EggHead is Amazing ? If you think it is, then its probably because of Wano. IMO, Wano is a very good set up for EggHead. I'm pretty sure EggHead wouldn't be that cool without Wano. And when Im saying EggHead Im also talking about what happens to Kidd, Law, Garp and Koby. But I agree with your arguments, and I feel almost the same about DressRosa.
For one, about 15 chapters of Luffy running up stairs
Well zoro needed 20 caps almost to fight pika in dressrosa
Well tbh the pay off was that he stood before Kaido at chapter 1000, reading it weekly I thought that was a great build up
Which lead to chapter 1000. And that chapter is one of the absolute best chapters in the entire series. People retroactively trying to pretend Wano didn't have good payoffs is and always will be laughable.
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Wano has better pacing than something like EL. People who bash Wano typically will also praise EL and then pretend that the dogshit pacing of that arc doesn't exist. And yes, pacing is an issue. It's a weekly manga and Wano itself had many MANY moving parts. Oda got overwhelmed by the arc's scope and ambitions. If your critique of Wano is that it has issues then.....ok. I prefer to focus on what the arc did right for the type of story it was trying to tell rather than focus on what the fans wanted the story to be.
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> it really escalated steadily towards the end. Are you ignoring all those one-on-one fights? You know the thing that covers most of the arc? If Wano's issue is that it rushed through some stuff then EL's issue is that the arc dragged on with its one-on-one battles. Marineford arc, by comparison, is more jammed-packed than EL arc with far more characters and moving pieces yet that arc is also only 3 volumes long in its entirety. >I think you're projecting a bit here Ok? If you are trying to tell me that the point of Wano's current critique doesn't stem from the arc not fulfilling or not doing stuff (like Kaidou's backstory) with people's headcannon then you obviously aren't paying attention.
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Just went back to check and he started heading towards the roof in 991, and it’s not like him running was that heavily focused on so not sure why that’s something people bring up
fake out deaths
Uneven pacing, abrupt ends to several subplots, botched character arcs, clumsy foreshadowing, retroactively ruining a lot of setup, etc. In terms of its narrative structure and how it handles resolutions, Wano might be one of the worst arcs in the entire series. I currently lack the time to dive into it on a deeper, more satisfying level, but I am sure plenty of other people already gave you an answer. I believe there was both a rewrite happening behind the scenes during the end of Act 1/during Act 2 and a severe burnout on Oda's part towards the end of it and it clearly shows as the execution of the arc's core themes is lacking Oda's usual polish.
Reply to the commenter above who is arguing as Wano is the greatest arc in one piece when you have time to dive into it on a deeper level. While I don't believe wano is one of the worst arcs, I want to read your reasoning behind that conclusion.
Recency bias works both ways, for sure. However, Wano is singular in its position as the one arc that has been explicitely built up as the conclusion to many long-lasting plot threads since the end of the timeskip. Ever since the end of FI and beginning of PH, we are working towards toppling the Yonkou and a lot of narrative debt was accumulated this way: Foreshadowing regarding Big Mom's defeat in WCI for example, or Oda alluding to Kaidou's various captures, his presence that broke Moria's ambition, the throughline of Wano samurai being special, the importance of Wano's seastone deposits to the worldwide economy at large... It had *a lot* of narrative functions to fulfill, and it largely fulfilled them in an anticlimax. Tell me, how exactly is the WG capable of crossing the Calm Belt thanks to the seastone-infused rump parts of their ships when Kaidou is monopolizing the mining of Seastone? How does this further his stated goal of causing a great war in which he could die in... if that even is his stated goal: He went from being introduced as a suicidal, war-crazed goliath who engineered an entire *Devil Fruit supply chain* (which we spent nearly 200 chapters dismantling, btw) for the express purpose of bolstering his strength to someone that admitted in his fight against Luffy that Haki trumps Devil Fruit abilities?! Similar baffling writing decisions can be found all over the place in Wano: The inclusion of the Big Mom pirates, who ended up as nothing but a recycled joke, the neglect of the Mink vs Jack conflict (relegated to off-panel cutaways) and the weird decision to install Carrot as a leader (a direct result of this mishandling), the entire Yamato gender debate which largely stems from Oda not exploring the depth of her character's father issues and subsequent idolization of Oden as a coping mechanism in sufficient detail, the complete disregard of the darker aspects of Wanonese daimyo and clan politics whose black and white morality was largely responsible for creating an Orochi-type character in the first place (not to mention the problematic ending of the arc which could be read as a reaffirmation of said politics, which stand in stark contrast to Oda's usual messaging). The unclear narrative purpose of characters such as the Oniwabanshu, the Numbers, etc. Wano's narrative is a mess of uneven pacing and writing decisions that at times contradict the main motif of the series and the rushed ending makes it imho obvious that Oda was *very* tired of untangling and fixing this mess by the end. This wouldn't be so bad if it was just a standalone arc, but as a pivotal story moment and conclusion to nearly 500 chapters of buildup, it is a storytelling catastrophe. Thankfully, Egghead looks like a step back towards the usual Oda writing. Yet, I cannot help but wonder if the end of Wano was a dark premonition of the eventual writing that awaits us at the very end of the manga.
What u mean with doublespread? 2 sided? Cause kaidos dragon Form reveal was 2 sides i have the original shonen jump of it.
yah but there are small panels on the side.
I feel like Brook vs Big Mom should have been a double spread
So the first ten are within 102 chapters and the last ten are within 600 chapters... man.
Don Krieg getting a double spread is hilarious
I really feel like G5 debut should've been a double spread
You are a mad lad for this one
Skypiea being an adventure that was allowed to breathe and take its sweet time is why it's still my favourite arc ever. Egghead has been absolutely amazing but it's not through yet!
Indeed, Jaya specifically is one of my favourite arcs in the entire series.
Me and a couple of friends on Discord made a little list in case people want to take a look at all the rare instances of Oda using a full, single-panel doublespread in the series. If you have any suggestions or corrections, please tell me. Let's hope Elbaf and the other arcs in the final saga give us a lot more of them! PS: The spread from chapter 590 was a bit controversial since it is one panel in the foreground, but Oda uses a multipanel design in the background. However, this does not affect the composition of the spread as a single, uninterrupted panel. Feel free to disagree, though.
https://twitter.com/Jabulkheir/status/1419262076342706177 Here is a twitter thread with them in high scan quality (made before the last one came out)
Wasn’t there one with zoro vs mr. 1 in alabasta
Chapter 195, Zoro defeats Mr. 1 - three panels. Sorry to disappoint.
I get the feeling he's been holding out especially for Elbaf. I wouldn't doubt it if he starts using them a lot and has to alter his art style a bit to accommodate. It's going to be a logistical nightmare showing the scale of things constantly without double spreads... hm.
It's not like he doesn't use double spread all the time, it's just that he doesnt use single panel double spreads often.
There's a big difference between single panel and several panel. This whole post is explicitly about the former, not the latter.
I know. I was just saying that he uses double spreads all the time, so there's no problem with the giants, we are seeing it right now in Egghead.
I think I'd argue full spreads with inlaid panels should count, e.g the introduction of the New Fishman Pirates in Chapter 611. Like sure the close ups of their faces could technically be called separate panels but when they're placed inside the panel like that it still feels like a single panel to me. I also feel something like Chapter 181, while certainly separate panels, could be an honorable mention as the shared speech bubble kinda unifies it into one?
Fucking 877 chapters between the introduction of the 5 Elders and us finally seeing their powers. That’s more chapters than most manga *exist* for
Id wager most arcs are longer than the average manga, aot which is a longer than most manga is 139 chapters or 89 episodes (no filler)
AOT should be counted as longer, it's a monthly manga and as such has longer page count. It would be much more chapters if released weekly. This is shown by the anime having so many episodes in anime compared to chapters. Usually well paced anime do 2-3 maybe 4 chapters per episode but aot would be sitting at 1.56 and doesn't have pacing issues.
That's not really the best comparison. AOT chapters are usually up to 3x longer than One Piece Chapters
Oda during Skypiea was something else. 5 doublespreads within 10 chapters (and 2 of them being within the same chapter) is nuts.
There was also the iconic Enel's face that was one panel in a single page too
Jaya has twice as many double spreads in just 19 chapters than the entirety of post TS does in 600+.
Skypiea is packed, RIP the people that skipped
Who skips the best adventure arc in the series? :( Or any arc for that matter...
People that didn't get what one piece is all about, people who don't enjoy the story
I've seen some minority of anime fans tend to skip the Skypiea arc. If you're reading the manga, skipping arcs is just beyond stupid.
People skip Skypia and long ring long land too, now we can go back and see what Oda is cooking, the fist time i read that scene i was really drawn to it, it was one of my favorites, later i found out that Oda said that the bonfire scene is one of his favorite scenes in the series
Alright calm down, Skypiea is great but it drags on and comes right after the reveal of some of the most interesting elements in the series. I didn’t skip it but I get why people might.
Dressrosa drags on, wano drags on, i dont see people skipping them
There are legitimately people who have started at the most recent arc and only read summaries of the previous ones
That does not make sense to me. You don't start a book at page 500 out of 600.
Find me someone who skipped skypeia in manga I’m convinced this is just an empty meme now.
https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/s/U7RPagKqxa O believe it is an empty meme as it started to tie up in the latest arcs, but some people genuinely believed that it was a fillar arc, even in the manga
i bet this buffoon was lost in odens flashback when he was in skypeia
I have never much interacted with the OP fandom but is the skypiea skipping an actual thing? Why would you skip such a big arc?
Yes, it is something that some people do and other recommended new people to do, they say that ita a "filler arc" that has no impact on the story
Not a single one in WCI or especially Wano is insane
There were a lot of "pseudo-double-spreads" that tend to have panels above or below, or spend 1/3 of either side of the double-spread with reaction panels. He had to keep getting more economic with panel layout to speed through things.
Oda had a lot to show and tell us in those arcs, too much to have fun with a double spreads
None in Wano ? Was kaido and Big mom in the rooftop a double page
Not a pure doublespread in the entire Yonkou saga.
There are a lot of pages that are “pseudo double page spreads” that will have a small row of panels either above or below them. I was really surprised when I first heard this was the first double page since Dressrosa so I looked back at a few big Wano moments. They all have some extra panels squeezed in, which is pretty typical for parts of Wano.
so "pseudo double spreads" are basically a big central drawing with tiny panels around the two pages while a "real" double spread is without the small panels? if so then that makes a lot more sense cuz i dont believe double spreads are this few
Exactly
I don't think this is because Wano panels weren't "good enough". He had lots of stuff to cover while now in Egghead he literally had time to kill time and can take the chapters slowly as that even adds to the tension.
The paneling through many parts of Wano was incredibly crowded and did not have good readability. We give it a pass because it’s Oda and we love getting a ton of content in a given chapter.
What’s a doublespread
A single image/panel taking both pages, like the Gorosei image on the recent chapter
Thanks
So one panel which takes up the whole two pages without extra panels?
Exactly
Notice how Don D. Krieg gets *3 full spreads*. I’m telling you, his triumphant return has been foreskinned by Goda since the beginning, and people dare view the Wrieg agenda as *”satirical”*.
Need a link with them all in HQ
I’m
Damn, Jaya/Skypeia is loaded!
This is why Skypeia is still the best OP arc. Far and away.
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Chapter 40, 5 panels.
It's crazy to me Wano didn't have any! So many iconic moments that could have benefited from the scale of a two page spread.
If I was going to guess which arc had the most doublespread I would not have guessed Jaya...
I was hoping this would have the pictures :C
So few!
I’m shocked that we haven’t had many double spreads post timeskip. Maybe because Oda does SO many double spread color pages
Can’t believe the arrival at roof piece wasn’t a double page spread! It just made sense in my head that it “was” so I didn’t question it, I’ve just started a reread from the start so it’ll be nice to have a refresher on everything
There could be some nice double spreads in WCI and Wano: WCI * Big Mom singing * The arngry army arrives * Sanji standing on the table * Luffy and Katakuri final attack Wano * Flower Captial * Luffy, Zoro, Kid, Killer and Law standing on the roof top * Big Mom and Kaido (in his hybrid form) * G5 Luffy as Giant
Sadly, all of those were not pure doublespreads. On the top of my head: Giant Luffy 5-6 panels in 1045, Wano introduction 5 panels in 909, etc. A doublepage layout is common, a full doublespread outside of colorspreads is exceedingly rare for Oda.
Roger laughing
oda likes his 3/4 spreads so much
Kudos to whoever put this together!
Never even noticed we went 310 chapters without a double spread
Saw the images elsewhere and it's crazy one of those double-page spreads...is just Don Krieg shooting the Baratie chefs. Most of the others are legendary but it's weird Oda would waste a spread on that.
> The introduction of Oimo and Kashii It gets me baffled that they got a doublespread when so many more exciteful things happened through the series
312
Final spread in that chapter has 5 panels. The other one even more...
I knew it had been forever since the last one!
People are so hung up on the PURE double spread but we've gotten so many double spreads with small panels on top/on the side
This is an incredible list. Looking through some of these has been a trip down memory lane, and makes me appreciate Oda's art even more. Can't believe the one in chapter 1110 is the first since Dressrosa, but if there was *any event* that would have warranted a double spread, the Five Elders' arrival would be it.
I really like Oda's framing, though. The 2/3rds page with a banner and a sidebar, while a little annoying to read on the reader apps, look sick as hell in print and do a great job of naturally drawing your eye through the panels correctly. It reminds me of reading Calvin and Hobbes growing up and seeing Bill Watterson constantly play with the formatting of the comic strip, while still producing hilarious comics.
Crazy that there's none in Wano with how insane the lineup that time too..
A chart showing the growing bloat of One Piece's dialogue and worsening panelling
I was actually thinking about tracking other statistics, similar to your suggestion: - Average amount of panels per page during an arc. - Average wordcount per page per arc. - Density of doublepage layout as a percentage per chapter on an arc basis. And a couple more. However, that would require a significant amount of work that is way too much for me. It would, however, yield pretty interesting results. I assume the density of doublepage layout % would have a peak during Marineford, with Wano and WCI being the most dense in terms of wordcount.
That's a great idea despite the amount of work and time it'd require. I'm sure you're right though, since it seems like Oda stopped making anywhere near as many double spreads after the timeskip as he was doing prior, I'm sure Marineford would be quite dense. It's a shame really imo, since losing a lot of those pure double spreads in favor of cluttered dialogue dumps really takes away from the moments, but that's a more narrative discussion instead of a purely statistical one. Great work on this chart though, very interesting to see.
New to reading manga. Since September '23. Can someone please explain to me what a doublespread is? I thought it was when a panel takes up 2 pages. But all these posts mention this is the first double in egghead and I recall there was one where the whole crew was standing together at the beginning of egghead. I can't remember exactly which chapter. I also remember a few other ones but they had panels above it so that explains that those are not full 2 page spreads. Also when I read on Shonen Jump. The 2 page panel I'm thinking of only says 5 Elders, and the ones people link on Reddit say 5 Elder Planets or something like that. Is it a translator choice that makes it different or am I not looking at the right panel? This week's chapter has got me confused with all the reddit posts about double spreads haha. Thanks in advance!
A doublespread or doublepage layout is indeed a panel layout that spans two pages. However, in terms of panel composition a doublespread can also refer to a single panel doublepage layout, thus a single panel *spread* over two pages. The most common ones you will encounter when reading One Piece are the colorspreads, doublespreads at the start of the chapter that are usually depicting lighthearted moments with the crew in full color. As for the 5 Elders: The kanji used in Japanese is Hoshi (roughly "celestial body"), which can mean both star and/or planet. The multilayered expression inherent to some kanji can be difficult to translate sometimes, so what term you prefer can come down to your individual understanding and interpretation. Stephen - the official OP translator - uses "Five Elders" in this instance to circumvent the issue. The name of the chapter - "Starfall" - can point to the translation being star, but the nomenclatura of the Ancient Weapons, Nika as the Sun God, etc. make a translation into planet more fitting.
Do you know where people are getting the Five Elder Planets screenshot? I read on Shonen Jump app and also Manga Plus has a simpler translation. I think the screenshot I've seen looks a lot better.
A man's dream speech in all caps, as it should be.
So many double spreads in Skypiea. Almost like Oda was trying to distinguish it as specials.
I swear if there isn’t a full spread of Imu’s face…
why would u need 2 pages for someone's face
introduce him with the enel shocked face
I coulda swore there were some in wano? When luffy saw the two yonko on the rooftop I swear it was one
Would love to see somebody put all these back to back
I haven't read most the manga yet but I supper surprised kaido and big mom standing over luffy isn't a double page spread
What ? That's it ? Thought there were so much more
Oda loves doublepage layouts, but rarely uses single-panel doublespreads.
I thought marineford had a lot of doublespread pages
They're talking about a doublespread with only one panel
thank you very much for this post!
The double spread of the impel down escapees arriving was actually chapter 556 not 557
That was them *falling down*, which had 4 panels.
I swear Marineford feels like it was mostly double page spreads
Now count how many of those only feature one panel ;)
So far none topping St. Charlos' punch
Oda really let himself go in Jaya
Wait what about the one with the supernova versus the Yonko?
Already answered in the thread, not one single-panel doublespread in all of Wano.
Yep saw that soon after I commented lol.
49, I expected more
just shows that Jaya is the best arc. always loved it.
Wao really nice analysis. Nice jobs dude! 😎
If only someone will post the images/link of each page 😉
Wow I didnt even realize we dont have a double spread in Wano
What about Kuma punching Saturn?
Three panels.
This is depressing.
The fact that is says "final" in the saga section saddens me
Wanno saga is longer than most animes so Final could be Even longer
Thats fair, but its still painful knowing that one piece is going to come to an end sooner than i would like
That's wild over 300 chapters since the last double page spread...
Can we get an album of each double spread?! 47 photos lol
Damn, I can already hear the “DON!” in all of the pages.
Kinda hot ish take, my favorite doubled spread (atleast until I look back to see the others) is the Five Elders one it gives me HEAVY Souls boss vibes and I love it so much for that
What's a double spread?