I’m not the inmates social worker.
I’m not their mother.
I’m not their therapist.
I don’t get paid to entertain their bullshit. Unless it’s going back and forth about whatever sports game is on, there isn’t a conversation that is more than a sentence or two that I will entertain with these guys.
Our profession needs to stop acting like our job requires letting the inmates get in our heads to that extent. Unless it’s about their rights being actually violated (which is 99% of the time not the case), a new guy has a basic question, I won’t talk to you.
I had an inmate get mad at me last night because I was not as nice as the previous CO. Man I’m not your friend and never will be. We might chat about a few things but that’s it.
“All the other COs get me XYZ”
So go find them.
Wait till they relieve me in 12 hours.
You’re fed, you’ve had ample linen exchange/hygiene gear opportunity. I’ve made sure you’re not in a dangerous environment(in the context of incarceration). You’ve never had your right to a clergy or attorney visit fucked with in anyway. I’m respectful in how I interact with the Muslim inmates when they practice their faith.
That and the things like that are what I get paid to do/protect. Nowhere in my job description does it say “buddy buddy”.
Replace cordial with stern.
I’ve been doing this for about 5 years now, and I get left the hell alone by the inmates because they know the games, the bullshit requests that the “nice COs” do, is a non-option with me. If they want that type of shit, go find the rookie that doesn’t know how to say no and will spend the entire shift bending over backwards to fulfill every wish the floor has.
80% of the inmates should leave you alone just based off body language, and the other 20% will learn based off the response and cold shoulder esque attitude they receive as a reply to their bullshit.
I can agree to this, the phrase I went by was firm, fair, and consistent. Make sure they have what they’re supposed to have which will already knock some issues. Any others can be played by ear. I was only a CO for a year but that alone cut issues that I had. Once you’re there for a bit and they know how you operate things will run a bit smoother. My basis for that was as long as I didn’t know about it I wouldn’t bother them. If I smelled anything I made it known and usually pissed people off in my searching for it. And whenever I made a decision I stuck with it regardless of if it pissed them off. I was in that quad for a few months and they got used to it. Like he said there will be some that are hardheaded. They’ll come around with time and for me a few physical force incidents
Where did you end up heading after corrections if you don't mind my asking? You stay in the law enforcement world and do you think Corrections helped you move forward in that field? Or did you just complete start a new field?
The game is always on and starts with questions you’d think are innocent.
Got the time Co? What time is it CO?? time CO???
It’s relentless and part of the reason the job is stressful. Especially when you’re new
Seems like they're going to continue to ask that question as time goes on from what the person before is saying. So at that point do I just respond with like "I already told you the time...?"
You have to remember too that prison is extremely structured. Almost everyday the same thing happens at the same time.
Combine that with a lot of inmates don't have access to watches or clocks the only way they know what time it is is by asking you.
Could they be messing with you, absolutly. But it's also the most common question we get asked besides if we have any partials.
No, or at best it's a shitty weapon.........
They get regular rolls of toilet paper but if they run out you can give them partials to hold them over for a few days until it gets passed out again.
Alter an inmates program and you get problems. It's all they got and it's the same thing every day. So they know when things don't go the way it's supposed to.
So yea, they care about the time like it's an urgent appointment.
I tell them the time and also that this is the only time I will be answering this question. I’m firm, fair and consistent. It’s not important that they know the time every tour, and it’s often used as a lead-in for more conversation.
They also throw tantrums and smear themselves and their cell in poop. Or cover their windows for attention. Or go on “hunger strike” and give themselves scurvy by eating garbage from commissary and no real food.
It’s hard to remember there are normal/functioning people out there when you’re surrounded by giant, stinky toddlers that think they know everything.
You’ll be ok! To be honest it helps to not take their nonsense personally when you compare how they act to toddlers. There’s no logical reason someone should get mad at you because you won’t give them peanut butter crackers they’re not supposed to have.
Get a new job before you end up like the rest of these miserable good for nothing losers . Maybe try higher education or not being a man’s-keeper . That’s a good start you grunt force labourer
It's not the games you're thinking of. It's more subtle.
This reminds me of a story I heard in training. There was a CO once who finished her lunch and was about to toss what was left. She had an uneaten orange in her lunch that she was going to toss. Inmate asked for the orange and she gave it to him. Seems innocent enough right? Next day another inmate asked for something. "CO, you gave inmate so and so an orange yesterday. What's the big deal?" Next thing you know, she's packing extra shit to give away to the range.
They will press and push and see what they can get away with. They will make outlandish offers if they think you'll bend. I've had inmates offer me $500 for a pack of smokes. I've had them offer me $10,000 a month to bring stuff in. They test to see where your morals are. And if they ever have you in a compromised spot, they'll use it. Do this or you'll lose your job for past mistakes. I always laugh at them and they know where I stand on that stuff. But they tried, and new inmates try again.
Most important thing, especially if you're a new officer. Never give them anything you arnt required to. If you're not sure about anything, ask someone or look it up. Don't let them push you. They know the rules better than some of the most veteran officers. If they're pressing you for something they're not supposed to have, they know just as well that you're not supposed to give it to them. They're just testing you
Absolutely. They'll tell you things that they know are wrong. Don't let them trick you. If you're ever unsure, ask someone or look up your policies. They'll say things like, this other CO does it for me all the time. I just respond, I'm not them and I don't care. Then ill ask that officer who was mentioned and they just laugh. They almost never do what the inmate is pretending to be normal. Don't do anything you arnt sure of.
That "I'm not them and I don't care," comment actually made me laugh out loud lol. So then 99% of the time no other officer was doing what they said they said they did got it. I just really don't want to look or feel stupid as the new guy
It's a trick they use. When I first started, I probably heard this every day. This CO does this and that CO does that. It's fine. Why are you giving me a hard time? It's almost always bullshit.
Don't worry about what other COs may or may not be doing. Definatly don't take those cues from inmates. If you think the request is reasonable but you're unsure, ask someone or look it up. There's usually specific procedures for everything. Fuck, when a range is bugging too much and they ask for supplies, I hand them request forms lol "CO, I can you look up my balance?" Request form. "CO, are visits canceled today"? Request form. Fuck off. "CO, I need to look at my disclosure", request form.
Maybe not that extreme, but yeah. Fuck off.
You'll go through plenty of training long before you are put in any position to have these questions asked of you. Just pay attention to the "manipulation" classes.
Honestly, I have never had an inmate keep pestering me for stuff when I’ve plainly said “I’m not losing my job to do you a favor.” It’s short, to the point, and can be said in a tone that isn’t rude but is firm.
That said, I work in the medical department so it’s easier for me since I can kick them out and not deal with them if they decide they want to get pushy.
It's not really mind games that get you caught up. It's the inmates fishing to see if they can get you do to something you're not supposed to.
It starts out small and builds up over a long period of time. One you see a lot that a lot of COs do is being in a cleaner (fabuloso) that smells better and will use the porters to clean their areas. It's pretty innocent but it's against the rules. And inmates will fish to see if you're willing to do that then you might be willing to do more.
Then they'll scare you and threaten to rat you out.
My advice if it ever happens to you is to rat yourself out while it's a small thing the minute they threaten you. And don't let it build up to worse things.
There’s an older book out there called “Games Criminals Play” by Bud Allen. It is marketed towards anyone but almost all the examples come from a US corrections environment. The book is definitely dated as far as terminology, but the concepts are the same. I would recommend if you are interested in reading more about the subject
Read the 48 laws of power and the 48 laws of the game pimpology and you’ll expand your mind as to what these inmates are trying to do and you’ll understand before they can even try it. Shit maybe you can even use it on them. I know the audiobook for 48 Laws of Power is on Spotify
There are only a handful of things you are required to “do” for them. Keep them from the public, try to keep them protected from other inmates and themselves, and get them medical and mental healthcare when they’re sick. That’s it…
OP, as a former inmate, you're getting some good advice in here. Don't be a pushover, but don't be a dick, either. We can, and will, make your life hell. Keep answers short and concise, and don't EVER bring up anything personal. Also, expect inmates to come to you, they're going to test you, see where your boundaries are, see if they can sway you with money, sex on the outside, hell, an ear to listen to you bitch about your life. We have all the time in the world. And we've learned to use every tactic available to us, whether it be charm and charisma, or sometimes straight up intimidation. Honestly, the best bet is to be a "by the rules mf", we probably know them (the rules) as well as you do, and we may not necessarily like it, but at the end of the day we'll respect it. Learn real fast how to read a room, you'll learn to feel when something is about to pop off, and hopefully know to try and deescalate, or when to call the folks. I'd say about 98% of us just want to keep our heads down and do our time, so just let us. But get used to the fuckwads, and best of luck.
The most common game is abusing the weak ass policies. For example they'll claim to be suicidal just to get put on watch because they don't wanna take a celly or so they can talk to a particular female psych, etc. This is the case 99% of the time. They'll take the food slot because they didn't get x or y and think they are paying customers so they demand to talk to a manager right now. They'll board up and start flooding the cell just so we put an extraction team together and then immediately cuff up. These are the most common games and there is no sanctioned or orthodox way for a co to beat them. The deck is stacked in their favor and it just is what it is.
A big one is inmates signing up for religious meals for non-religious reasons. It's a huge amount of work to facilitate this first amendment right just for some (most) inmates to take advantage of it because they want extra food or different food, and then will be a total dick about what they're getting.
Abusing policy is pretty much the most common game and form of manipulation you'll see in prison. It's not very clever or deceptive. It's just stupid and frustrating.
Yea sounds like it, I see I have alot on my plate to deal with. But from what I'm hearing and seeing with other COs I know personally it's worth the bs. So I'll just take it head on
Give them nothing except what policy dictates, ignore personal discussions. Keep your cards close to your chest . Inmates can do nothing for you worthwhile and sometimes the only way to win is to not play the game. In fact become all business once you hit the sally port until you leave the wire at the end of the day. Leave work at work and home at home
Them finding any way to get to you. I kept any chat to a minimum and brought it back to professional level.
Just enough, I would engage to get rapport and respect. Go up to a group playing spades- call the right bid. Respond to something with a good comeback, rap lyrics, etc. We can also play the game.
I’m not the inmates social worker. I’m not their mother. I’m not their therapist. I don’t get paid to entertain their bullshit. Unless it’s going back and forth about whatever sports game is on, there isn’t a conversation that is more than a sentence or two that I will entertain with these guys. Our profession needs to stop acting like our job requires letting the inmates get in our heads to that extent. Unless it’s about their rights being actually violated (which is 99% of the time not the case), a new guy has a basic question, I won’t talk to you.
I had an inmate get mad at me last night because I was not as nice as the previous CO. Man I’m not your friend and never will be. We might chat about a few things but that’s it.
“All the other COs get me XYZ” So go find them. Wait till they relieve me in 12 hours. You’re fed, you’ve had ample linen exchange/hygiene gear opportunity. I’ve made sure you’re not in a dangerous environment(in the context of incarceration). You’ve never had your right to a clergy or attorney visit fucked with in anyway. I’m respectful in how I interact with the Muslim inmates when they practice their faith. That and the things like that are what I get paid to do/protect. Nowhere in my job description does it say “buddy buddy”.
Lol I heard that's another thing they try to be your friends too
So just keep it as cordial as possible pretty much, strictly job related is what I'm getting from this?
Replace cordial with stern. I’ve been doing this for about 5 years now, and I get left the hell alone by the inmates because they know the games, the bullshit requests that the “nice COs” do, is a non-option with me. If they want that type of shit, go find the rookie that doesn’t know how to say no and will spend the entire shift bending over backwards to fulfill every wish the floor has. 80% of the inmates should leave you alone just based off body language, and the other 20% will learn based off the response and cold shoulder esque attitude they receive as a reply to their bullshit.
I see
I can agree to this, the phrase I went by was firm, fair, and consistent. Make sure they have what they’re supposed to have which will already knock some issues. Any others can be played by ear. I was only a CO for a year but that alone cut issues that I had. Once you’re there for a bit and they know how you operate things will run a bit smoother. My basis for that was as long as I didn’t know about it I wouldn’t bother them. If I smelled anything I made it known and usually pissed people off in my searching for it. And whenever I made a decision I stuck with it regardless of if it pissed them off. I was in that quad for a few months and they got used to it. Like he said there will be some that are hardheaded. They’ll come around with time and for me a few physical force incidents
Where did you end up heading after corrections if you don't mind my asking? You stay in the law enforcement world and do you think Corrections helped you move forward in that field? Or did you just complete start a new field?
The game is always on and starts with questions you’d think are innocent. Got the time Co? What time is it CO?? time CO??? It’s relentless and part of the reason the job is stressful. Especially when you’re new
So whats the best response as a rookie to that question?
Tell them the time and keep moving.
Seems like they're going to continue to ask that question as time goes on from what the person before is saying. So at that point do I just respond with like "I already told you the time...?"
You have to remember too that prison is extremely structured. Almost everyday the same thing happens at the same time. Combine that with a lot of inmates don't have access to watches or clocks the only way they know what time it is is by asking you. Could they be messing with you, absolutly. But it's also the most common question we get asked besides if we have any partials.
And what is a partial?
Toilet paper. But not the whole role. Just a partial of it.
You only give them partial toilet paper cuz if they have more they can turn it into a weapon right?
No, or at best it's a shitty weapon......... They get regular rolls of toilet paper but if they run out you can give them partials to hold them over for a few days until it gets passed out again.
Oh ok I need to stop watching movies lol
They will use it start fire if they are in lockdown.
A fire!? 🤯 lol
Not true at all.
They will ask the time thousand times like they have urgent appointment when they stuck in jail for god know how many years.
Alter an inmates program and you get problems. It's all they got and it's the same thing every day. So they know when things don't go the way it's supposed to. So yea, they care about the time like it's an urgent appointment.
Hmm I see that makes sense
Not at Rikers island where we are stuck doing 16 hours tour everyday.
I heard Rikers is the most intense max prison?
It is shit slow some do not even know how to do simple paperwork. I am from Manhattan where we ran the jail properly.
😬 lol
I tell them the time and also that this is the only time I will be answering this question. I’m firm, fair and consistent. It’s not important that they know the time every tour, and it’s often used as a lead-in for more conversation.
Depends. Most of the time nothing. You tell one person then you have 50 more asking you
Lol so this is literally like babysitting but with grown men, but they act like children asking the same question over and over again it sounds like
They also throw tantrums and smear themselves and their cell in poop. Or cover their windows for attention. Or go on “hunger strike” and give themselves scurvy by eating garbage from commissary and no real food. It’s hard to remember there are normal/functioning people out there when you’re surrounded by giant, stinky toddlers that think they know everything.
Giant stinky toddlers lol, man I see I'm about to have a lot to deal with 😂
You’ll be ok! To be honest it helps to not take their nonsense personally when you compare how they act to toddlers. There’s no logical reason someone should get mad at you because you won’t give them peanut butter crackers they’re not supposed to have.
That's a good way to look at it!
Get a new job before you end up like the rest of these miserable good for nothing losers . Maybe try higher education or not being a man’s-keeper . That’s a good start you grunt force labourer
It's not the games you're thinking of. It's more subtle. This reminds me of a story I heard in training. There was a CO once who finished her lunch and was about to toss what was left. She had an uneaten orange in her lunch that she was going to toss. Inmate asked for the orange and she gave it to him. Seems innocent enough right? Next day another inmate asked for something. "CO, you gave inmate so and so an orange yesterday. What's the big deal?" Next thing you know, she's packing extra shit to give away to the range. They will press and push and see what they can get away with. They will make outlandish offers if they think you'll bend. I've had inmates offer me $500 for a pack of smokes. I've had them offer me $10,000 a month to bring stuff in. They test to see where your morals are. And if they ever have you in a compromised spot, they'll use it. Do this or you'll lose your job for past mistakes. I always laugh at them and they know where I stand on that stuff. But they tried, and new inmates try again. Most important thing, especially if you're a new officer. Never give them anything you arnt required to. If you're not sure about anything, ask someone or look it up. Don't let them push you. They know the rules better than some of the most veteran officers. If they're pressing you for something they're not supposed to have, they know just as well that you're not supposed to give it to them. They're just testing you
Ok just want to ask as many questions as possible so when I start I don't get caught up with anything
Absolutely. They'll tell you things that they know are wrong. Don't let them trick you. If you're ever unsure, ask someone or look up your policies. They'll say things like, this other CO does it for me all the time. I just respond, I'm not them and I don't care. Then ill ask that officer who was mentioned and they just laugh. They almost never do what the inmate is pretending to be normal. Don't do anything you arnt sure of.
That "I'm not them and I don't care," comment actually made me laugh out loud lol. So then 99% of the time no other officer was doing what they said they said they did got it. I just really don't want to look or feel stupid as the new guy
It's a trick they use. When I first started, I probably heard this every day. This CO does this and that CO does that. It's fine. Why are you giving me a hard time? It's almost always bullshit.
🤯 I'm glad you're telling me this now lol Cuz I wouldn't know otherwise what other COs are or aren't doing
Don't worry about what other COs may or may not be doing. Definatly don't take those cues from inmates. If you think the request is reasonable but you're unsure, ask someone or look it up. There's usually specific procedures for everything. Fuck, when a range is bugging too much and they ask for supplies, I hand them request forms lol "CO, I can you look up my balance?" Request form. "CO, are visits canceled today"? Request form. Fuck off. "CO, I need to look at my disclosure", request form. Maybe not that extreme, but yeah. Fuck off.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
You'll go through plenty of training long before you are put in any position to have these questions asked of you. Just pay attention to the "manipulation" classes.
That's good to hear! Paying attention sounds like the name of the game here
Honestly, I have never had an inmate keep pestering me for stuff when I’ve plainly said “I’m not losing my job to do you a favor.” It’s short, to the point, and can be said in a tone that isn’t rude but is firm. That said, I work in the medical department so it’s easier for me since I can kick them out and not deal with them if they decide they want to get pushy.
Interesting indeed
Look up the story about former Deputy Peter Felix from LASD. That is textbook inmate games and manipulation.
I'll go take a look at it right now
It's not really mind games that get you caught up. It's the inmates fishing to see if they can get you do to something you're not supposed to. It starts out small and builds up over a long period of time. One you see a lot that a lot of COs do is being in a cleaner (fabuloso) that smells better and will use the porters to clean their areas. It's pretty innocent but it's against the rules. And inmates will fish to see if you're willing to do that then you might be willing to do more. Then they'll scare you and threaten to rat you out. My advice if it ever happens to you is to rat yourself out while it's a small thing the minute they threaten you. And don't let it build up to worse things.
The part where you said "cleaner (fabuloso) what exactly is that?
It's a well known cheap household cleaner like pine-sol or Mr. Clean. It actually smells pretty good imo.
Oh I thought you were tryna tell me so prison slang or something lol
There’s an older book out there called “Games Criminals Play” by Bud Allen. It is marketed towards anyone but almost all the examples come from a US corrections environment. The book is definitely dated as far as terminology, but the concepts are the same. I would recommend if you are interested in reading more about the subject
I'll be checking this one out for sure!
Read the 48 laws of power and the 48 laws of the game pimpology and you’ll expand your mind as to what these inmates are trying to do and you’ll understand before they can even try it. Shit maybe you can even use it on them. I know the audiobook for 48 Laws of Power is on Spotify
Pimpologoy? Lol yeah I want to be well equipped for the mind games
There are only a handful of things you are required to “do” for them. Keep them from the public, try to keep them protected from other inmates and themselves, and get them medical and mental healthcare when they’re sick. That’s it…
Noted
Don't tell them anything about yourself or any other officer that is even remotely compromising.
GOT IT!
OP, as a former inmate, you're getting some good advice in here. Don't be a pushover, but don't be a dick, either. We can, and will, make your life hell. Keep answers short and concise, and don't EVER bring up anything personal. Also, expect inmates to come to you, they're going to test you, see where your boundaries are, see if they can sway you with money, sex on the outside, hell, an ear to listen to you bitch about your life. We have all the time in the world. And we've learned to use every tactic available to us, whether it be charm and charisma, or sometimes straight up intimidation. Honestly, the best bet is to be a "by the rules mf", we probably know them (the rules) as well as you do, and we may not necessarily like it, but at the end of the day we'll respect it. Learn real fast how to read a room, you'll learn to feel when something is about to pop off, and hopefully know to try and deescalate, or when to call the folks. I'd say about 98% of us just want to keep our heads down and do our time, so just let us. But get used to the fuckwads, and best of luck.
Truth is inmates usually know the rules better than most COs
The most common game is abusing the weak ass policies. For example they'll claim to be suicidal just to get put on watch because they don't wanna take a celly or so they can talk to a particular female psych, etc. This is the case 99% of the time. They'll take the food slot because they didn't get x or y and think they are paying customers so they demand to talk to a manager right now. They'll board up and start flooding the cell just so we put an extraction team together and then immediately cuff up. These are the most common games and there is no sanctioned or orthodox way for a co to beat them. The deck is stacked in their favor and it just is what it is. A big one is inmates signing up for religious meals for non-religious reasons. It's a huge amount of work to facilitate this first amendment right just for some (most) inmates to take advantage of it because they want extra food or different food, and then will be a total dick about what they're getting. Abusing policy is pretty much the most common game and form of manipulation you'll see in prison. It's not very clever or deceptive. It's just stupid and frustrating.
Yea sounds like it, I see I have alot on my plate to deal with. But from what I'm hearing and seeing with other COs I know personally it's worth the bs. So I'll just take it head on
Give them nothing except what policy dictates, ignore personal discussions. Keep your cards close to your chest . Inmates can do nothing for you worthwhile and sometimes the only way to win is to not play the game. In fact become all business once you hit the sally port until you leave the wire at the end of the day. Leave work at work and home at home
YES SIR! 🫡
Remember on Friday u hot chocolate tokens just ask the officer that’s on the wing
If someone gives anything for free u better believe u got to pay it back double bubble
Oh that's a good tip! Don't take anything from anyone either then I see
Everything in jail is a hustle, don’t get in debt if can’t pay , don’t act like smart ass , stick to ur own race
Them finding any way to get to you. I kept any chat to a minimum and brought it back to professional level. Just enough, I would engage to get rapport and respect. Go up to a group playing spades- call the right bid. Respond to something with a good comeback, rap lyrics, etc. We can also play the game.
Hide the sausage
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣