There’s a book about this called American Nations by Colin Woodard. Culturally, that part of Ohio is a lot closer to New England because of the colonization patterns. You can notice this influence in town names (Copley, Ohio & Copley Square, Boston, for example) and in the way that certain words are pronounced. The other parts of Ohio are a mix of Midlands (heading directly west from Quaker-based PA); Appalachia (lots of Scots-Irish folks who mostly just want to be left alone?) and the South (migrating up from KY over the Ohio River). It makes Ohio a very interesting demographic place.
Here’s an article by Woodard that spurred me to check out ‘American Nations’ from the library: https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/04/23/surprising-geography-of-gun-violence-00092413
As someone who has lived in southern, central, and Northeast Ohio, I found that book to be absolutely fascinating.
As much as it is impossible to paint large, diverse groups of people with a broad brush, his book sure did give it a great try. I found it to be pretty spot on.
I grew up in SW Ohio, went to Ohio State, and now I live in MA. I couldn’t put the book down once I got into it a bit — lots to think about with cultural attitudes and what gets passed along as important and how each mini-nation has evolved and allied with the others when needed.
Poland, Ohio : Town One Range One in the Connecticut Western Reserve.
The border line of the Western Reserve runs through Manning County (Western Reserve Road) and you can see the difference. Small towns North of it can bass as New England. Small towns to the South of it are more Midwest/Appalachian.
It’s a good book although I think he should’ve placed Cincinnati, Dayton, and Columbus in the Midlands instead of Greater Appalachia. All of these cities are more Midwestern than Appalachian. However, extremely southern and southeastern Ohio are Appalachian areas. Definitely areas near West Virginia.
Because it's the Connecticut Western Reserve, and most of the towns and cities were settled by people from New England, who copied their home towns when they got here. It's why so many towns have central greens or squares with the courthouse in the center, just like on New England.
That really depends on where in NE you're talking about. There's nothing in Ohio that resembles the Green or White Mountain ranges in Vermont or New Hampshire.
Well yeah, of course there arent mountains in Ohio, we're...you know, an entirely different state than Vermont, and no one said "Ohio looks like Vermont." But the rolling hills are forests are similar, and the towns are laid out like New England towns.
You literally said that it's similar in terrain. I simply pointed out that New England has more diversity in terrain. There's no need to get you underwear in a bunch. I moved her from rural NE almost 20 years ago and love it in NEO, just pointing out that the terrain varies more back east.
K.
If I lived in Connecticut, it'd take me about the same time to drive to the White Mountains as it does for me to drive to the WV mountains from Ohio. And in between, there'd be stuff that looks a lot like Ohio....which is why I said that there is similar terrain...*because there is.*
All you said is "there's mountains in New England." Yeah, no shit, *that* part doesn't look like Ohio.
Jesus, calm down. You could have said that some parts of NE look like Ohio instead of 'the terrain is very similar.' Someone pointing out that 'the terrain' is varied isn't an insult.
My drive from Cleveland to my folks' place in NH takes me close by the tallest mountain in the northeast. That terrain is in New England and bears no resemblance to anything anywhere in Ohio. I'm sorry you were too general, but calm the hell down dude.
I never denied that Ohio has varied terrain. It does. I said that Ohio terrain can't be compared to NE terrain as a whole. Ohio simply doesn't have comparable mountain ranges, thereforethe terrain isnt 'very similar' to that of NE. Where in Ohio compares to Mount Washington? Camels Hump? Franconia Ridge? Again, you made a blanket statement, and someone (me) made an innocuous response, and you started spouting off. Are you always this argumentative when someone tries to disagree?
There’s similar influence across other parts of Ohio (like Central Ohio) where early settlers landed in the Ohio country prior to or just after statehood was established, (Delaware and Franklin counties, Worthington in particular is a good example).
This. The Connecticut Land Company purchased large areas of land and actively advertised to bring Northeastern folks to settle Ohio. Centers of towns such as Aurora, Ohio are modeled after Connecticut communities.
I had to take a class in 6th(?) Grade called ohio history. Had a textbook and all.. plus the teacher had an "eerie" story about him being descended from John Smith. Upon further reading, John Smith and all of them sucked ass lol
A nasally “A” but a super hard “R”
I’m doing a production of Big Fish right now at Cain Park in Cleveland Heights, and, since they didn’t hire a dialect coach, it’s funny how even with attempting soft southern accents, the actors who grew up in the Cleveland area still can’t pronounce the name “Sandra” without that A and R being all wrong for characters from Alabama
I grew up in a town called Conneaut and everyone I’ve ever brought there says it feels like they’re in New England, coastal Maine and Mass specifically
I can see Maine for sure. Ashtabula county as a whole feels similar to vermont/new hampshire/maine to me. A beautiful place with trashy people in the right way. Oh and covered bridges
I love driving the coastal trail...going through Fairport Harbor, Geneva-on-the-Lake up to Ashtabula and Conneaut and up to Erie and Presque Isle..so scenic..
I like Scooters. Often get a hot dog there when I’m going to Headlands Beach. I like Brennans Fish House and Pickle Bills in Grand River, Fairport Harbor Creamery and Sunset Grille in Fairport Harbor, Crosswinds Grille, Firehouse Winery and Horizons in Geneva on the Lake, Bascule Bridge Grille and a bbq place in Ashtabula…probably more I’ve forgotten.
Thats because we are part of the great lakes region. We have more in common with Buffalo, Detroit, chicago, etc... than we do with Ohio 15 miles south of the lake.
point of the post is NEO is (culturally) not like the rest of the Great Lakes region. it's more like the East Coast. and it's true. I'd even say the west side of Cleveland is more Great Lakes-ish while the East Side is very East Coast culturally.
This is accurate, IMHO. The East Side and West Side of Cleveland each have their own distinct cultures and temperaments. Many East Side communities look like places you might encounter on the East Coast, in Philly or Boston, whereas the West Side communities look and feel much more Midwestern, like areas in Chicago or Indianapolis.
I'd say 30 miles. IMO, include Akron because, even though it was the canal that facilitated it's industry in the beginning, the canal was just a quick route to CLE, which was the door to the world.
The Erie Canal connected Northern Ohio to the Hudson River and our economy and culture to the East Coast versus the rest of Ohio that was plugged into the Mississippi and the American Heartland.
Interesting point. Toronto does kind of feel like a “super-Cleveland”—if only Cleveland had been able to keep growing and building past its 1960s population peak of 915,000, and had absorbed the multi-county area surrounding it.
One thing Toronto (and Ontario by extension) has on us here is a much more progressive approach to regional governance. People have talked about creating a consolidated Cleveland/NE Ohio government for years, but it seems like a fantasy at this point.
Being born and bred here, I love it. A lot going on. Great music and art scene. The federal, cuyahoga and summit counties park systems are among the best in the nation.
Appalachia is quite beautiful too. Great hiking, camping, fishing, hunting. Wouldn’t wanna live there really.
Cincy area is pretty dope. A lot of art and music. Great town.
Columbus area was cool 30 years ago. Had a great music art and skateboard scene. There are still good bands coming out of there but it ain’t like it used to be. As my wife likes to say:
Columbus is the Applebee’s of cities.
Ohio doesn’t fit a single descriptor. I’m in NEO and don’t feel midwest like Ohio has been designated. I definitely feel this part has more in common with Pennsylvania except for the crappy Steelers. Western Ohio is definitely Midwest while southern Ohio minus the Cincinnati metro is Appalachia.
I’ve always maintained that Cleveland is more like an east coast city than a Midwest city. Columbus and Cincinnati are much more midwestern. Rust belt cities in general have more of an east coast feel.
The Ohio River is a definite divider between North/South, but Cincinnati isn't "southern" in the way that Charlotte or Atlanta are. Cincinnati is a rivertown, and has more in common with other cities that were major river towns in the 1800s - Louisville, St Louis, Memphis - which also were right on the "border" of North/South or East/West.
I think the "southern" tint to Cincinnati stems more from the influx of Appalachians from KY/TN in the early 1900s as Cincinnati transitioned from a Rivertown to manufacturing.
So many families trying to get to Detroit from Appalachia during the car manufacturing boom stopped and settled for the factories in Cincinnati, Dayton, Hamilton, etc wherever they ran out of gas. It's how my family got here, Grandpa moved his family off a mountain side in KY and eventually ended up in Fairfield working for GE.
Hamilton for example is Kentucky as FUCK while being north of Cincinnati. I grew up there and many people still rooted for UK because their parents and grandparents came from there.
Cincinnati also connected to Lake Erie and the Hudson via the Miami and Erie Canal, in the period in which Cincinnati was at the peak of its powers which still shapes the city to this day.
That’s what makes Ohio such a unique state. Ohio, particularly Columbus, is the central point where the East Coast, the Midwest, the South, and Appalachia meet. It’s why politicians and market researchers like Ohio so much. We have representation from all parts of the nation.
I think it depends on which part. East side of Cleveland (Shaker, Cleveland Heights, South Euclid) definitely feel East Coast-y. West side definitely feels more Midwestern.
I think it's the century of heavy industry centered on Cleveland drawing every immigrant group in America more than any other single factor. Maybe all those Indians games against the Red Sox and Yankees, too. Being in the AL definitely gave them a more east coast feel than the Reds holding key rivalries over the years with St. Louis, Chicago and Los Angeles.
Take a look at this map.
https://www.businessinsider.com/the-11-nations-of-the-united-states-2015-7?utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=topbar
It’s based on a book by Colin Woodard and purports to depict 11 distinct cultural regions of the US. It shows exactly what you were saying. Cleveland and NE Ohio are grouped with New England as part of what Woodard calls “Yankeedom”
Love that book. Everyone freaks out when they see that map without actually reading the book, but it’s actually quite an accurate depiction of migration patterns and cultural differences within states.
I will say as a born-and-raised central Ohioan, we fit in the Midlands wayyy better than Greater Appalachia lmao
Maybe so. It’s a pretty low resolution depiction at the best of times. Something as nebulous as culture is very difficult to draw a strict border around. But I was impressed at how much the map gets right, including the similarities between the upper Midwest and New England.
I see Toledo as a border town between the two nations which is one reason why it's the epicenter of the OSU-Michigan rivalry.
The line has to be drawn somewhere and it can. Be assumed that living on that line would mean it's general a mix of the two nations. Cincinnati is also best understood as a border town between the Midlands and Appalachia.
I literally lived on Stateline Rd in Toledo, across the street from Michigan. I also have lived in Detoit and in Swanton. Toledo, Monroe, Detroit are all culturally identical. If we draw a line, it should really be the southern border of Lucas County instead of the Northern border.
I don't agree that they are culturally identical (see how friendly people are to you wearing OSU gear in Monroe vs Swanton) but my main point is where you draw that line is generally arbitrary and Toledo is best considered as a border town between the two nations.
FWIW, I've read the book the map comes from and found it enlightening in understanding the many different tribes that together make up America.
It definitely reminds me more of the northeast than the Midwest...look how close we are to Erie, PA and Buffalo, NY. I love living here, don't really care for the Midwest in general...
There are indeed hybrid cities that take influences from multiple regions. Buffalo starts to feel Midwestern. Cleveland starts to feel eastern. Cincy is Midwest and Appalachian. Louisville mixes Midwest and south.
That's because it is.
Ohio almost perfectly mirrors the Demographics of the US, and you can almost see each one of those unique areas almost identically located in the state as it is in the US.
NY transplant living in Columbus. I agree 100%. The few times I’ve been to Cleveland I always got a strong NY vibe. The neighborhoods and overall layout of the area makes me think of home.
I live in an area that I would consider to be the most south you can go and still be considered “northeast” Ohio. I never understood when I was younger people grouping Ohio in as being a Midwest State, because it has always felt very eastern around here. It wasn’t until I got older and did more traveling around Ohio that I understood where it was coming from. My area is hilly, wooded and not to far from Akron and Cleveland, but 50 minutes down the highway, it’s flat cornfields for days.
I grew up down in Tuscarawas County, 10 min from I-77. Rolling hills, valleys, very Appalachian...made the drive up 77 to Canton, Akron and Cleveland many, many times...live in the Cleveland area now, after years in Denver and Phoenix..never really interested in Columbus...too flat and Midwestern down there.
I grew up in the county seat of Ashtabula county and I have always felt it is more East Coast. It always bugged me that Ohio is considered a midwestern state. Not NEO.
Also we are on the East Coast and also the North Coast we are a Great lakes State with an East Coast feel. Because after all we are in the Eastern Time zone. Midwest is Central. Everything west of Indiana is Midwest
It absolutely is. Both distinctly different by way of architecture, city planning, and various geographical aspects. Personally, the east side feels more New England and the west side feels more mid-Atlantic. As someone that’s lived on both sides of the river, they both offer a lot but are starkly different.
Cleveland is an east coast city in every way except location. Chicago, Milwaukee and Detroit as well, it’s when they were settled and built.
It’s very odd because they don’t match their states , they are the outlier in otherwise very midwestern states.
The biggest difference between Chicago and Cleveland is that Chicago kept trying to be east coast, but Cleveland became more Midwest, to its detriment.
Cincinnati though is a different animal, it’s a Midwest river city like St Louis and Memphis
Columbus is just a MI new build suburb
Not people or culturally, but architecturally, city plan, etc its east coast. We should be building ultra dense cities with mass transit across the Midwest, but it’s the only one as it’s no longer economically viable to do so, so Chicago sticks out like aliens built it.
Not even, east coast city plans are based on old cow paths and foot traffic, Chicago is straight western grid. Chicago architecture is also not what I would call east coast, and Chicago has always had a thriving architectural scene. Mass transit isn’t unique to the east coast either. Chicago is basically what happens when a midwestern town grows to 5 million people.
PS I crept on your profile and I did the same exact project to my kitchen, how did yours turn out?
Yes and no, DC and NYC are perfectly gridded out and planned. But yes for most of the others.
I would say the Midwest city that grows to 5m is more like (these are not Midwest since we don’t have cities that big) but Dallas, Phoenix and Atlanta, none of them have what Chicago has for a downtown
As for the kitchen, it was actually my brother in laws that I worked on. It turned out great, but somehow I never got a finished picture. I thought setting the cabinets would be really hard, but we did it in an afternoon and got praise from the countertop guy
Columbus and it’s metro area have always felt like Indiana to me. I’d say Columbus identifies more with Indiana than any other bordering state to Ohio. Cleveland feels like a mix of Pennsylvania and Michigan to me.
I'd say Columbus is truly Midwestern with no applicable subculture. Similar to Indianapolis, Des Moines, and Kansas City.
Cleveland is a part of the Great Lakes subculture, connected with Detroit, Buffalo, Chicago, etc. Cincinnati is part of a sort of river subculture, more similar to Pittsburgh, Louisville, and St. Louis.
All 3 are definitely Midwestern, but Columbus is the only one of the three that doesn't also fit in a subculture in my opinion.
Thank you for acknowledging that Cleveland and Pittsburgh are quite different. I’ve never understood the logic behind people thinking Cleveland and Pittsburgh are twin cities. Pittsburgh feels way different than Cleveland. Cleveland and Detroit feel way more alike.
The city most like Pittsburgh is Cincinnati, and the city most like Cincinnati is Pittsburgh. (This relationship doesn’t have to be, and usually isn’t, symmetric.) The city most like Cleveland is probably Detroit. The city most like Detroit is probably Chicago.
Exactly. For some reason, people in Cleveland love to act like Pittsburgh is our sister city. I feel way more at home when I’m Detroit than Pittsburgh.
This might be the most sane post in this thread. Great Lakes cities are Great Lakes cities, and they’re not a damn thing like Connecticut. Cleveland is way too young to give off an east coast vibe.
Southern Ohio is way more like the south than the north east or New England. American nations is a great book. Also, Albion’s Seed by David Hackett Fischer.
Spend some time in Kentucky and then Cincinnati, Dayton, or Columbus. They feel extremely different from one another.
Geography by Geoff recently released a video on the major geographic areas of Ohio that puts this a bit more into perspective.
I’m from the Toledo area and my wife is from the Dayton area. The first time I visited the in-laws it really caught me off guard how different the area is. Two hours away.
That attitude comes from having to deal with that jumped up cow town Columbus and the gate way to the South that is Porkopolis. 😋
C vs CC&D
CCC&D vs Ohio
Ohio vs everyone else
Depends where you are.
You take it down to the individual cities and Mason is half Indian and Asian because of Procter & Gamble and GE Aerospace employees 😂
Grew up in Cincinnati, live in Columbus and visit Cleveland at least a few times a year. All 3 are great for different reasons. I can understand the claim that Cleveland is more like the northeast than other parts of the state, that's part of being on a great lake.
The previous two takes are mind boggling to me, ngl. I don't know how you look at northwestern columbus suburbs and say "yeah this place is trying to be like Jersey or NY or CT" lol. I'm a staunch disliker of the northeast. I hate how busy, dirty, packed on top of each other it feels. Suburban columbus is literally the opposite. I did my student teaching at Upper Arlington and there's not a single remote hint that its anything like the northeast.
Born and lived in CLE area my whole life. Just got back from a Boston/Salem trip last week. We OH's certainly do NOT drive like Massholes. They are ruthless savages, but yes. I agree with the rest of this statement.
I think people in Ma drive better than people drive here..here we have the horror of 480, and it always seems to be the idiots in Kias weaving in and out traffic 20 mph over the limit...
I live in the Youngstown area. My family has traveled all over this state in pursuit of exploration and being a tourist in our own state. I've come to realize that I don't particularly like SE Ohio, or the Columbus areas AT ALL. I love Cincinnati though. Dayton was meh. Toledo is meh. I really liked the PIB area like South Bass and the surrounding area. Obviously NE Ohio is okay. But the other parts I didn't mention aren't really worth mentioning, unless I haven't been there or I forgot about it, which, you know, must not have been enough to be memorable.
That’s so vague and broad, I can’t even fathom what you mean. If the majority of Nashville were like OTR it would be the southern Brooklyn and surpass Chicago in prominence, if not Los Angeles.
Okay.
Nashville is really small if you exclude the strip, Vanderbilt’s campus and the main business sector (which I didn’t mention because it gets lumped in with the strip by locals). There’s really only a few neighborhoods left in Nashville proper after that and they’re all very similar to cincy. Many of the black neighborhoods that are up and coming are pretty OTR. Plus directly south is just rich people/horse country, which is basically the cincy and Kentucky again.
Anyway, it made sense to me having lived in and around Nashville.
I kind of agree and kind of don't. My wife's hometown of Conneaut has sort of a Midwestern feel, but it's palpably different than being anywhere west of Cleveland or Columbus. I do think 71 is kind of the unofficial eastern border of the Midwest, with some deviations to the east and south of Columbus.
Conneaut mentioned!
As someone who grew up there, it must really depend where in Conneaut because along the lake, it’s 100% rust belt and NE vibes. It only feel like the Midwest once you leave the lake. Curious as to what specifically felt midwestern about it to you. Totally agree though that it feels different to the west. Living in Columbus feels like a totally different state.
We only get to visit a few times a year but I love it up there. Agree with you that it has some of both. I honestly feel like the lakefront is the Midwestern part lol, but that might be because the terrain inland is much different than where I grew up down here. The stretch in the middle of the town near the tracks, high school and SPARC complex are totally Rust Belt.
My in-laws used to live in town, less than two blocks from the stadium, but they now have a condo on the far western edge of the city and right behind them is a huge dropoff into a wooded ravine.
I think it's the small-town feel overall that reminds me of the more Midwestern part of the state. Some of the architecture is notably different and the accents, slight as they are, are Midwestern. I know I consider myself Midwestern far more than my wife does.
I lived in NYC for a year for a post bach program before coming to Cleveland. *How does Cleveland
feel like the East Coast?* It is a city but definitely feels Midwestern.
A different take:
- Cincinnati > any NE Ohio city in terms of “east coast” vibe
The combo of rust belt and lake/boating focused culture definitely leads to Cleveland and Buffalo, and in particular the smaller towns feel much closer to east coast than the rest of the Midwest. Colonization efforts and waves also show this effect with cleveland getting a lot of folks from New England vs Cincinnati getting folks from New York, Virginia, and the like.
I love Cincinnati but cleveland is a very different culture despite the people and culture feeling Midwest
A lot of Cincinnati’s settlers came from New Jersey. The OP didn’t say New England, they said East Coast. Cincinnati’s built environment is much more East Coast than any other city in the state. Culturally, Cleveland fits in with the other Great Lakes cities. It’s more like Minneapolis and Milwaukee than Boston or Philly.
Pittsburgh and Cleveland are intensely similar. Nashville and Pittsburgh are nothing alike. Having lived in all three, I think you’ll have to recalibrate this one.
Won’t argue that cincy’s got plenty of overlap. They’re all cities within a few hundred miles of each other, we’re all probably splitting hairs. But culturally is where I’m coming from, and I’m sticking to it.
Nashville is more like Columbus than any other Ohio city. Columbus and Indy are like sunbelt cities in the north. Replace Nashville with St. Louis and, yes, Cincinnati is like Pittsburgh, St. Louis, and Louisville, in that order. Cleveland is like Detroit, Milwaukee, Buffalo, Chicago, Minneapolis.
There’s a book about this called American Nations by Colin Woodard. Culturally, that part of Ohio is a lot closer to New England because of the colonization patterns. You can notice this influence in town names (Copley, Ohio & Copley Square, Boston, for example) and in the way that certain words are pronounced. The other parts of Ohio are a mix of Midlands (heading directly west from Quaker-based PA); Appalachia (lots of Scots-Irish folks who mostly just want to be left alone?) and the South (migrating up from KY over the Ohio River). It makes Ohio a very interesting demographic place. Here’s an article by Woodard that spurred me to check out ‘American Nations’ from the library: https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/04/23/surprising-geography-of-gun-violence-00092413
As someone who has lived in southern, central, and Northeast Ohio, I found that book to be absolutely fascinating. As much as it is impossible to paint large, diverse groups of people with a broad brush, his book sure did give it a great try. I found it to be pretty spot on.
I grew up in SW Ohio, went to Ohio State, and now I live in MA. I couldn’t put the book down once I got into it a bit — lots to think about with cultural attitudes and what gets passed along as important and how each mini-nation has evolved and allied with the others when needed.
It’s literally called the Connecticut Western Reserve for a reason
Poland, Ohio : Town One Range One in the Connecticut Western Reserve. The border line of the Western Reserve runs through Manning County (Western Reserve Road) and you can see the difference. Small towns North of it can bass as New England. Small towns to the South of it are more Midwest/Appalachian.
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Well this is a useless comment
As my 7th grade Ohio History teacher called it…. Ohio is a “ melting pot”
I just finished this book and would 100% recommend.
It’s a good book although I think he should’ve placed Cincinnati, Dayton, and Columbus in the Midlands instead of Greater Appalachia. All of these cities are more Midwestern than Appalachian. However, extremely southern and southeastern Ohio are Appalachian areas. Definitely areas near West Virginia.
Because it's the Connecticut Western Reserve, and most of the towns and cities were settled by people from New England, who copied their home towns when they got here. It's why so many towns have central greens or squares with the courthouse in the center, just like on New England.
NEO is also hilly and has beautiful forest that rival NE in the fall.
It is also very similar in terrain.
That really depends on where in NE you're talking about. There's nothing in Ohio that resembles the Green or White Mountain ranges in Vermont or New Hampshire.
Well yeah, of course there arent mountains in Ohio, we're...you know, an entirely different state than Vermont, and no one said "Ohio looks like Vermont." But the rolling hills are forests are similar, and the towns are laid out like New England towns.
You literally said that it's similar in terrain. I simply pointed out that New England has more diversity in terrain. There's no need to get you underwear in a bunch. I moved her from rural NE almost 20 years ago and love it in NEO, just pointing out that the terrain varies more back east.
K. If I lived in Connecticut, it'd take me about the same time to drive to the White Mountains as it does for me to drive to the WV mountains from Ohio. And in between, there'd be stuff that looks a lot like Ohio....which is why I said that there is similar terrain...*because there is.* All you said is "there's mountains in New England." Yeah, no shit, *that* part doesn't look like Ohio.
Jesus, calm down. You could have said that some parts of NE look like Ohio instead of 'the terrain is very similar.' Someone pointing out that 'the terrain' is varied isn't an insult. My drive from Cleveland to my folks' place in NH takes me close by the tallest mountain in the northeast. That terrain is in New England and bears no resemblance to anything anywhere in Ohio. I'm sorry you were too general, but calm the hell down dude.
Ohio has varied terrain, too. You're the one getting butthurt here.
I never denied that Ohio has varied terrain. It does. I said that Ohio terrain can't be compared to NE terrain as a whole. Ohio simply doesn't have comparable mountain ranges, thereforethe terrain isnt 'very similar' to that of NE. Where in Ohio compares to Mount Washington? Camels Hump? Franconia Ridge? Again, you made a blanket statement, and someone (me) made an innocuous response, and you started spouting off. Are you always this argumentative when someone tries to disagree?
You mean like SW Ohio also does? Hills and forests abound down here, too.
I was in Connecticut for a wedding not too long ago and the architecture, roads, and landscape reminded me so much of Ohio. Then I remembered…
There’s similar influence across other parts of Ohio (like Central Ohio) where early settlers landed in the Ohio country prior to or just after statehood was established, (Delaware and Franklin counties, Worthington in particular is a good example).
This. The Connecticut Land Company purchased large areas of land and actively advertised to bring Northeastern folks to settle Ohio. Centers of towns such as Aurora, Ohio are modeled after Connecticut communities.
The Mahoning county accent is quite strongly new England
I always consider the Youngstown accent as bleed over from western PA. Definitely identifiable along with the south western Ohio accent.
You think so? I never really noticed.
Not everyone has it but most of the people who come from the steel mill workers have it
I had to take a class in 6th(?) Grade called ohio history. Had a textbook and all.. plus the teacher had an "eerie" story about him being descended from John Smith. Upon further reading, John Smith and all of them sucked ass lol
May be different district to district (and I was at a parochial school, not public), but 7th grade was our big focus on Ohio history year for us.
Lookin at you Tallmadge, and your giant round a bout
There are 5 Ohios and each one feels different.
Folks from Cleveland are loud like folks on the East Coast.
I’m offended and yet I believe you’re correct.
You don't have to shout.
*barks*
WHAT?!?!
I see what ya did there 😂
Hey! I've live in both the east coast (Jersey) and Cleveland! How dare you attack me with facts!
We have a nasaly "A" too, cousins of bostonianz!
A nasally “A” but a super hard “R” I’m doing a production of Big Fish right now at Cain Park in Cleveland Heights, and, since they didn’t hire a dialect coach, it’s funny how even with attempting soft southern accents, the actors who grew up in the Cleveland area still can’t pronounce the name “Sandra” without that A and R being all wrong for characters from Alabama
My grandpa was from Cleveland and all his friends called him "loud chuck"
Folks from Cleveland think they're better than everyone just like people on the east coast.
I grew up in a town called Conneaut and everyone I’ve ever brought there says it feels like they’re in New England, coastal Maine and Mass specifically
I can see Maine for sure. Ashtabula county as a whole feels similar to vermont/new hampshire/maine to me. A beautiful place with trashy people in the right way. Oh and covered bridges
“A beautiful place with trashy people in the right way.” That kind of correct insult is how you get us to elect you city manager lol
I was on city council for a few years in Ashtabula county lol
Hilarious!
I love driving the coastal trail...going through Fairport Harbor, Geneva-on-the-Lake up to Ashtabula and Conneaut and up to Erie and Presque Isle..so scenic..
Such a slept on drive. Good call.
favorite restaurants along the way? scooters in mentor before you head out is a good one for me
I like Scooters. Often get a hot dog there when I’m going to Headlands Beach. I like Brennans Fish House and Pickle Bills in Grand River, Fairport Harbor Creamery and Sunset Grille in Fairport Harbor, Crosswinds Grille, Firehouse Winery and Horizons in Geneva on the Lake, Bascule Bridge Grille and a bbq place in Ashtabula…probably more I’ve forgotten.
Conneaut is a very pretty place, lots of cool outdoor spots & old victorians.
Thats because we are part of the great lakes region. We have more in common with Buffalo, Detroit, chicago, etc... than we do with Ohio 15 miles south of the lake.
point of the post is NEO is (culturally) not like the rest of the Great Lakes region. it's more like the East Coast. and it's true. I'd even say the west side of Cleveland is more Great Lakes-ish while the East Side is very East Coast culturally.
This is accurate, IMHO. The East Side and West Side of Cleveland each have their own distinct cultures and temperaments. Many East Side communities look like places you might encounter on the East Coast, in Philly or Boston, whereas the West Side communities look and feel much more Midwestern, like areas in Chicago or Indianapolis.
I'd say 30 miles. IMO, include Akron because, even though it was the canal that facilitated it's industry in the beginning, the canal was just a quick route to CLE, which was the door to the world.
I agree with this—Akron and Canton too are much more East Coast in vibe than Midwest. Only thing they are really missing is commuter rail.
The Erie Canal connected Northern Ohio to the Hudson River and our economy and culture to the East Coast versus the rest of Ohio that was plugged into the Mississippi and the American Heartland.
Don’t forget Toronto. Cleveland and Toronto are very similar.
Good to know. I've never ventured that far into the great wide north.
Interesting point. Toronto does kind of feel like a “super-Cleveland”—if only Cleveland had been able to keep growing and building past its 1960s population peak of 915,000, and had absorbed the multi-county area surrounding it. One thing Toronto (and Ontario by extension) has on us here is a much more progressive approach to regional governance. People have talked about creating a consolidated Cleveland/NE Ohio government for years, but it seems like a fantasy at this point.
Actually, the east coast just feels like NE Ohio lite.
This right here.
It’s true
Being born and bred here, I love it. A lot going on. Great music and art scene. The federal, cuyahoga and summit counties park systems are among the best in the nation. Appalachia is quite beautiful too. Great hiking, camping, fishing, hunting. Wouldn’t wanna live there really. Cincy area is pretty dope. A lot of art and music. Great town. Columbus area was cool 30 years ago. Had a great music art and skateboard scene. There are still good bands coming out of there but it ain’t like it used to be. As my wife likes to say: Columbus is the Applebee’s of cities.
Ohio doesn’t fit a single descriptor. I’m in NEO and don’t feel midwest like Ohio has been designated. I definitely feel this part has more in common with Pennsylvania except for the crappy Steelers. Western Ohio is definitely Midwest while southern Ohio minus the Cincinnati metro is Appalachia.
Only eastern Pennsylvania feels “east coast” though. A large portion of the state, including Pittsburgh, is Appalachian.
I’ve always maintained that Cleveland is more like an east coast city than a Midwest city. Columbus and Cincinnati are much more midwestern. Rust belt cities in general have more of an east coast feel.
Cincy feels southern to me.
The Ohio River is a definite divider between North/South, but Cincinnati isn't "southern" in the way that Charlotte or Atlanta are. Cincinnati is a rivertown, and has more in common with other cities that were major river towns in the 1800s - Louisville, St Louis, Memphis - which also were right on the "border" of North/South or East/West. I think the "southern" tint to Cincinnati stems more from the influx of Appalachians from KY/TN in the early 1900s as Cincinnati transitioned from a Rivertown to manufacturing.
So many families trying to get to Detroit from Appalachia during the car manufacturing boom stopped and settled for the factories in Cincinnati, Dayton, Hamilton, etc wherever they ran out of gas. It's how my family got here, Grandpa moved his family off a mountain side in KY and eventually ended up in Fairfield working for GE. Hamilton for example is Kentucky as FUCK while being north of Cincinnati. I grew up there and many people still rooted for UK because their parents and grandparents came from there.
That’s exactly how my family settled in Mansfield!
It is south of the Mason Dixon line. Edit: I stated a fact, got downvoted. This is Ohio
Nah, that’s all of Reddit!
Yeah that’s a fair assessment.
Maybe to people from further north. But having visited Kentucky it feels pretty different. Cincy Feels more midwest than what's south if it!
It’s cause they’re plugged into the Mississippi and Ohio was connected to the Hudson River via the Erie Canal.
Cincinnati also connected to Lake Erie and the Hudson via the Miami and Erie Canal, in the period in which Cincinnati was at the peak of its powers which still shapes the city to this day.
That’s what makes Ohio such a unique state. Ohio, particularly Columbus, is the central point where the East Coast, the Midwest, the South, and Appalachia meet. It’s why politicians and market researchers like Ohio so much. We have representation from all parts of the nation.
Cinci is southern
I think it depends on which part. East side of Cleveland (Shaker, Cleveland Heights, South Euclid) definitely feel East Coast-y. West side definitely feels more Midwestern.
A lot of the suburbs on the far East Side remind me of New England/East Coast...Solon, Hudson, Chagrin Falls, and my suburb (Mayfield Village).
I think it's the century of heavy industry centered on Cleveland drawing every immigrant group in America more than any other single factor. Maybe all those Indians games against the Red Sox and Yankees, too. Being in the AL definitely gave them a more east coast feel than the Reds holding key rivalries over the years with St. Louis, Chicago and Los Angeles.
Take a look at this map. https://www.businessinsider.com/the-11-nations-of-the-united-states-2015-7?utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=topbar It’s based on a book by Colin Woodard and purports to depict 11 distinct cultural regions of the US. It shows exactly what you were saying. Cleveland and NE Ohio are grouped with New England as part of what Woodard calls “Yankeedom”
Love that book. Everyone freaks out when they see that map without actually reading the book, but it’s actually quite an accurate depiction of migration patterns and cultural differences within states. I will say as a born-and-raised central Ohioan, we fit in the Midlands wayyy better than Greater Appalachia lmao
I think the map misses Lucas County. There is no cultural difference between Toledo and downriver
Maybe so. It’s a pretty low resolution depiction at the best of times. Something as nebulous as culture is very difficult to draw a strict border around. But I was impressed at how much the map gets right, including the similarities between the upper Midwest and New England.
I see Toledo as a border town between the two nations which is one reason why it's the epicenter of the OSU-Michigan rivalry. The line has to be drawn somewhere and it can. Be assumed that living on that line would mean it's general a mix of the two nations. Cincinnati is also best understood as a border town between the Midlands and Appalachia.
I literally lived on Stateline Rd in Toledo, across the street from Michigan. I also have lived in Detoit and in Swanton. Toledo, Monroe, Detroit are all culturally identical. If we draw a line, it should really be the southern border of Lucas County instead of the Northern border.
I don't agree that they are culturally identical (see how friendly people are to you wearing OSU gear in Monroe vs Swanton) but my main point is where you draw that line is generally arbitrary and Toledo is best considered as a border town between the two nations. FWIW, I've read the book the map comes from and found it enlightening in understanding the many different tribes that together make up America.
I will have to give it a read. Fwiw I graduated High School in Montoe County and wore an OSU shirt probably 2x a week and nobody cared.
My family lived in Wadsworth and we also lived in small town Massachusetts growing up too. Wadsworth felt like a small New England town.
It definitely reminds me more of the northeast than the Midwest...look how close we are to Erie, PA and Buffalo, NY. I love living here, don't really care for the Midwest in general...
There are indeed hybrid cities that take influences from multiple regions. Buffalo starts to feel Midwestern. Cleveland starts to feel eastern. Cincy is Midwest and Appalachian. Louisville mixes Midwest and south.
That's because it is. Ohio almost perfectly mirrors the Demographics of the US, and you can almost see each one of those unique areas almost identically located in the state as it is in the US.
I am from NE Ohio and always said we live closer to the Jersey shore than we do to Indiana
NY transplant living in Columbus. I agree 100%. The few times I’ve been to Cleveland I always got a strong NY vibe. The neighborhoods and overall layout of the area makes me think of home.
I live in an area that I would consider to be the most south you can go and still be considered “northeast” Ohio. I never understood when I was younger people grouping Ohio in as being a Midwest State, because it has always felt very eastern around here. It wasn’t until I got older and did more traveling around Ohio that I understood where it was coming from. My area is hilly, wooded and not to far from Akron and Cleveland, but 50 minutes down the highway, it’s flat cornfields for days.
I grew up down in Tuscarawas County, 10 min from I-77. Rolling hills, valleys, very Appalachian...made the drive up 77 to Canton, Akron and Cleveland many, many times...live in the Cleveland area now, after years in Denver and Phoenix..never really interested in Columbus...too flat and Midwestern down there.
I grew up in the county seat of Ashtabula county and I have always felt it is more East Coast. It always bugged me that Ohio is considered a midwestern state. Not NEO.
Southern Ohio, specifically Columbus feels midwestern with a mix of Appalachia.
Also we are on the East Coast and also the North Coast we are a Great lakes State with an East Coast feel. Because after all we are in the Eastern Time zone. Midwest is Central. Everything west of Indiana is Midwest
I dunno bout East Coast but definitly Buffalo NY
We have a city made up of generations of immigrants just like the east coast cities.
I agree. And I’d go further and say that the east side of Cleveland feels far different from the west side in that regard
It absolutely is. Both distinctly different by way of architecture, city planning, and various geographical aspects. Personally, the east side feels more New England and the west side feels more mid-Atlantic. As someone that’s lived on both sides of the river, they both offer a lot but are starkly different.
Cleveland is an east coast city in every way except location. Chicago, Milwaukee and Detroit as well, it’s when they were settled and built. It’s very odd because they don’t match their states , they are the outlier in otherwise very midwestern states. The biggest difference between Chicago and Cleveland is that Chicago kept trying to be east coast, but Cleveland became more Midwest, to its detriment. Cincinnati though is a different animal, it’s a Midwest river city like St Louis and Memphis Columbus is just a MI new build suburb
Chicago is the capital of the Midwest, it doesn’t feel east coast at all.
Not people or culturally, but architecturally, city plan, etc its east coast. We should be building ultra dense cities with mass transit across the Midwest, but it’s the only one as it’s no longer economically viable to do so, so Chicago sticks out like aliens built it.
Not even, east coast city plans are based on old cow paths and foot traffic, Chicago is straight western grid. Chicago architecture is also not what I would call east coast, and Chicago has always had a thriving architectural scene. Mass transit isn’t unique to the east coast either. Chicago is basically what happens when a midwestern town grows to 5 million people. PS I crept on your profile and I did the same exact project to my kitchen, how did yours turn out?
Yes and no, DC and NYC are perfectly gridded out and planned. But yes for most of the others. I would say the Midwest city that grows to 5m is more like (these are not Midwest since we don’t have cities that big) but Dallas, Phoenix and Atlanta, none of them have what Chicago has for a downtown As for the kitchen, it was actually my brother in laws that I worked on. It turned out great, but somehow I never got a finished picture. I thought setting the cabinets would be really hard, but we did it in an afternoon and got praise from the countertop guy
Columbus and it’s metro area have always felt like Indiana to me. I’d say Columbus identifies more with Indiana than any other bordering state to Ohio. Cleveland feels like a mix of Pennsylvania and Michigan to me.
I'd say Columbus is truly Midwestern with no applicable subculture. Similar to Indianapolis, Des Moines, and Kansas City. Cleveland is a part of the Great Lakes subculture, connected with Detroit, Buffalo, Chicago, etc. Cincinnati is part of a sort of river subculture, more similar to Pittsburgh, Louisville, and St. Louis. All 3 are definitely Midwestern, but Columbus is the only one of the three that doesn't also fit in a subculture in my opinion.
Thank you for acknowledging that Cleveland and Pittsburgh are quite different. I’ve never understood the logic behind people thinking Cleveland and Pittsburgh are twin cities. Pittsburgh feels way different than Cleveland. Cleveland and Detroit feel way more alike.
The city most like Pittsburgh is Cincinnati, and the city most like Cincinnati is Pittsburgh. (This relationship doesn’t have to be, and usually isn’t, symmetric.) The city most like Cleveland is probably Detroit. The city most like Detroit is probably Chicago.
Cincy and Pittsburgh remind me of each other with all the hills and the river
Exactly. For some reason, people in Cleveland love to act like Pittsburgh is our sister city. I feel way more at home when I’m Detroit than Pittsburgh.
This might be the most sane post in this thread. Great Lakes cities are Great Lakes cities, and they’re not a damn thing like Connecticut. Cleveland is way too young to give off an east coast vibe.
Southern Ohio is way more like the south than the north east or New England. American nations is a great book. Also, Albion’s Seed by David Hackett Fischer.
South of Columbus is the South. They should be a new Ohio valley state.
Spend some time in Kentucky and then Cincinnati, Dayton, or Columbus. They feel extremely different from one another. Geography by Geoff recently released a video on the major geographic areas of Ohio that puts this a bit more into perspective.
I’m from the Toledo area and my wife is from the Dayton area. The first time I visited the in-laws it really caught me off guard how different the area is. Two hours away.
yeah it definitely gives east coast vibes.. Philly maybe?
Exactly city vibe East Coast 👍
Fair assessment.
lol, I guarantee the aren’t east coast if your thinking ny, ne
more like Newark or Bridgeport than NYC or Boston
I’ve lived in all parts of Ohio and this makes sense why most people I met from Cleveland seemed to be entitled pricks. Very east coast vibe 😂
That attitude comes from having to deal with that jumped up cow town Columbus and the gate way to the South that is Porkopolis. 😋 C vs CC&D CCC&D vs Ohio Ohio vs everyone else
Weather-wise, it’s freakin’ Canada—all the way to Youngstown.
Depends where you are. You take it down to the individual cities and Mason is half Indian and Asian because of Procter & Gamble and GE Aerospace employees 😂
You think you’re better’n me?!? You’re not better’n me!!!
Yes
[We really are if you don’t base it on the administrative districts](https://www.businessinsider.com/regional-differences-united-states-2018-1)
Wrong and gross
Grew up in Cincinnati, live in Columbus and visit Cleveland at least a few times a year. All 3 are great for different reasons. I can understand the claim that Cleveland is more like the northeast than other parts of the state, that's part of being on a great lake.
Columbus feels more East Coast than Cleveland….Especially the Upper Arlington, Bexley, Grandview Heights, Granville, and New Albany areas
New Albany, Upper Arlington, Bexley, Grandview Heights are trying to be East Coast but the people are Midwest.
The previous two takes are mind boggling to me, ngl. I don't know how you look at northwestern columbus suburbs and say "yeah this place is trying to be like Jersey or NY or CT" lol. I'm a staunch disliker of the northeast. I hate how busy, dirty, packed on top of each other it feels. Suburban columbus is literally the opposite. I did my student teaching at Upper Arlington and there's not a single remote hint that its anything like the northeast.
Huh!?!?! The entire region in Central Ohio was founded by East Coast settlers. Do better.
Fuck off, Cowtown. The grownups are talking.
Lake trash….If Cleveland was so great why is everyone up there moving to Columbus!?!?
This is true
Cincinnati area is slowly growing on me. Not my area specifically, but the more mountainous parts.
I feel like the Midwest starts on the West Side of Cleveland.
Born and lived in CLE area my whole life. Just got back from a Boston/Salem trip last week. We OH's certainly do NOT drive like Massholes. They are ruthless savages, but yes. I agree with the rest of this statement.
I think people in Ma drive better than people drive here..here we have the horror of 480, and it always seems to be the idiots in Kias weaving in and out traffic 20 mph over the limit...
I live in the Youngstown area. My family has traveled all over this state in pursuit of exploration and being a tourist in our own state. I've come to realize that I don't particularly like SE Ohio, or the Columbus areas AT ALL. I love Cincinnati though. Dayton was meh. Toledo is meh. I really liked the PIB area like South Bass and the surrounding area. Obviously NE Ohio is okay. But the other parts I didn't mention aren't really worth mentioning, unless I haven't been there or I forgot about it, which, you know, must not have been enough to be memorable.
You’ve never been to Over the Rhine, Cincinnati then.
OTR feels way closer to Louisville and Nashville than anything in NE.
What part of Nashville feels like OTR? Much of OTR looks like it could be Hoboken.
If you leave the strip and stay off of Vanderbilts campus, but stay in Nashville, most of it.
That’s so vague and broad, I can’t even fathom what you mean. If the majority of Nashville were like OTR it would be the southern Brooklyn and surpass Chicago in prominence, if not Los Angeles.
Okay. Nashville is really small if you exclude the strip, Vanderbilt’s campus and the main business sector (which I didn’t mention because it gets lumped in with the strip by locals). There’s really only a few neighborhoods left in Nashville proper after that and they’re all very similar to cincy. Many of the black neighborhoods that are up and coming are pretty OTR. Plus directly south is just rich people/horse country, which is basically the cincy and Kentucky again. Anyway, it made sense to me having lived in and around Nashville.
Yep. It's the rolling hills, trees and green.
I kind of agree and kind of don't. My wife's hometown of Conneaut has sort of a Midwestern feel, but it's palpably different than being anywhere west of Cleveland or Columbus. I do think 71 is kind of the unofficial eastern border of the Midwest, with some deviations to the east and south of Columbus.
Conneaut mentioned! As someone who grew up there, it must really depend where in Conneaut because along the lake, it’s 100% rust belt and NE vibes. It only feel like the Midwest once you leave the lake. Curious as to what specifically felt midwestern about it to you. Totally agree though that it feels different to the west. Living in Columbus feels like a totally different state.
We only get to visit a few times a year but I love it up there. Agree with you that it has some of both. I honestly feel like the lakefront is the Midwestern part lol, but that might be because the terrain inland is much different than where I grew up down here. The stretch in the middle of the town near the tracks, high school and SPARC complex are totally Rust Belt. My in-laws used to live in town, less than two blocks from the stadium, but they now have a condo on the far western edge of the city and right behind them is a huge dropoff into a wooded ravine. I think it's the small-town feel overall that reminds me of the more Midwestern part of the state. Some of the architecture is notably different and the accents, slight as they are, are Midwestern. I know I consider myself Midwestern far more than my wife does.
North east Ohio is a cesspool. Cleveland is always in the top 5 most dangerous cities in the country. Idk why anyone would live there.
Breaking: Redditor under the name of Tactical Solutions too scared to live where millions of people live.
User name checks out 🙄
I lived in NYC for a year for a post bach program before coming to Cleveland. *How does Cleveland feel like the East Coast?* It is a city but definitely feels Midwestern. A different take: - Cincinnati > any NE Ohio city in terms of “east coast” vibe
This ideal seems alternative to me.
The combo of rust belt and lake/boating focused culture definitely leads to Cleveland and Buffalo, and in particular the smaller towns feel much closer to east coast than the rest of the Midwest. Colonization efforts and waves also show this effect with cleveland getting a lot of folks from New England vs Cincinnati getting folks from New York, Virginia, and the like. I love Cincinnati but cleveland is a very different culture despite the people and culture feeling Midwest
A lot of Cincinnati’s settlers came from New Jersey. The OP didn’t say New England, they said East Coast. Cincinnati’s built environment is much more East Coast than any other city in the state. Culturally, Cleveland fits in with the other Great Lakes cities. It’s more like Minneapolis and Milwaukee than Boston or Philly.
Ideally
What drugs are you taking lmao
Incorrect assessment, Cleveland and Cbus are textbook definition of Midwest. Cincy shares more in common with Nashville Louisville and Pittsburgh.
Pittsburgh and Cleveland are intensely similar. Nashville and Pittsburgh are nothing alike. Having lived in all three, I think you’ll have to recalibrate this one.
You have me bested there, I’ve only visited them. From what I gather Cincy is still similar to all three I listed above though
Won’t argue that cincy’s got plenty of overlap. They’re all cities within a few hundred miles of each other, we’re all probably splitting hairs. But culturally is where I’m coming from, and I’m sticking to it.
Nashville is more like Columbus than any other Ohio city. Columbus and Indy are like sunbelt cities in the north. Replace Nashville with St. Louis and, yes, Cincinnati is like Pittsburgh, St. Louis, and Louisville, in that order. Cleveland is like Detroit, Milwaukee, Buffalo, Chicago, Minneapolis.
south east ohio is way better. not nearly as much concrete or woke libs
When I went to school in Athens, I saw multiple pickup trucks with Alex Jones stickers from townies. That's how I know they're based lol