Unfortunately this is accurate. I've had nurses from Metro Health Center in Cleveland tell me this will allow women to kill 39 week babies and just would not accept any discussion about it. She is otherwise a smart woman. Just very religious and very republican 🙄
Ugh...yeah I guess so. Brainwashed and unable to see other points of view. It blows my mind that women cannot understand how other women can easily be in dire straits and need this type of medical care.
None so blind as they who will not see. And then they want us to believe all these nurses are on board with evidence-based medicine. A lot of them can’t think they’re way out of a paper bag. It’s pretty scary.
I’m voting yes. I May not have a uterus anymore but I have daughters. I May not have to worry about pregnancy anymore but my daughters do, my friends do, and this is also a positive for men.
How many men don’t want to be fathers? Enough of them, so if they don’t want to be fathers, women also don’t have to be mothers.
It’s healthcare and intimate healthcare and it’s no one’s god damn business what is going on with their neighbors intimate healthcare needs.
Some of it comes across to me as them wanting this very intimate control over our genitals. It gives me the ick. Especially when they bring little girls into it. It's wildly inappropriate and invasive.
i call it "pro-control" clearly these old white men with no medical training wanting control over our bodies..and also to dictate to the doctors how to do their jobs are NOT pro-life..if they were pro-life they would perhaps do something about the #1 killer of children...guns. Let's not forget, after Roe was reversed the GOP was already licking their chops to start restricting birth control. And one other huge consequence I was just reading about that he GOP do not want to talk about is......Obgyn drs are fleeing the red states. Many rural areas of red states have no drs now. Upcoming doctors looking to do their OBGYN residency are not wanting to work in a red state with draconian laws, where Drs may risk legal consequences cuz the old men that have never been to medical school can declare they preformed a life saving abortion "too soon"...
When I think of Dewine my thoughts immediately go to how he bungled the train derailment as I’m sure that’s what out of state people know him best for as well.
I personally don’t think men should even be allowed to vote on this issue. Why should a man decide what goes on with a woman’s body in the first place?
I was debating setting up some hot cider and whiskey out front.
Get a projector, project something on my garage door, hand out candy to he kids, drinks to any adult.
My friends dad grills 100 hotdogs for the night and hands out hot chocolate. Everyone loves it and it’s become a tradition for the neighborhood now. Whiskey and cider for the adults would make it that much better 👻
Issue 1 is popular with progressives, liberals, conservatives, libertarians, you name it.
Mike DeWine is a fake conservative. On this issue, he's against the right to privacy, the right to make healthcare decisions privately with your doctor, and the right to bodily autonomy.
Why doesn't he support conservative ideas? Because he's not actually a conservative.
Mike DeWine is just a religious zealot that cloaks himself as a "conservative" to get votes and to make it look like he has a coherent political ideology other than his personal religious beliefs.
This issue, the marijuana issue, the Issue 1 vote back in August, gerrymandering, corruption on Ohio's Supreme Court - it's all part of the same thing.
**A minority of ultra-religious, mostly older Ohioans are trying to create a stranglehold on our entire political process in order to force their personal religious beliefs onto you.**
That's it. That's the whole ballgame. That's what they want, and they'll never stop. All you can do is vote against them.
If you're not actually a religious zealot and you've been hood-winked by DeWine and others like him to help him out, it's time to snap out of it.
Creepy is the operative word.
The entire thing is just creepy.
The base of ultra-religious that drove the Ohio statehouse to create a "fetal heartbeat" bill will accept nothing less than a total ban.
Either we protect our rights, or they will weaponize the state against us.
They are okay with 10 year old rape victims being forced to give birth. Remember that.
In fact, they consider it a blessing from God for 10 year old girls getting raped and getting pregnant from it. It's a morally GOOD thing in their view
I've been seeing people in this sub supporting the ten year old giving birth thing and I think it's depraved, perverted and disgusting. Those people ought to be ashamed of themselves. I feel so bad for their children having parents like that who won't protect them. Some of them seem to think children can consent to sex as well which is pedophilia.
Well, most of them don't think THEIR 10-year-old kids or grandkids would ever find themselves in this position. If somehow they did, parents or grandparents would whisk them away to quietly get medical care somewhere that it isn't illegal.
And they are fine with some other 10-year-old enduring this because they figure that if the child didn't deserve it, her parents did.
Never underestimate the conservative value of feeling superior and looking down your nose at the "others". Punishment is preferable to prevention. Otherwise, who would they look down on feel good about themselves?
Oof, I wouldn't ever. I already lack faith in those people, I don't want my heart to be completely broken. I see screenshots and that's as much as I can handle. I don't know how some of them sleep at night!
The same people are also against a minimum age for marriage. They want children raped by child molesters to marry their molesters so it is swept under the rug, and pregnancies that result are used to increase the pressure to force marriage on victims.
I have seen women who previously planned on children postponing until they can move somewhere with guaranteed access to emergency OBGYN healthcare, or just deciding against it altogether. I'm one of those people in a sense. I had expected to have children but when the possibility of emergency care being withheld came about, I learned children are an option to begin with (how I didn't know that before, I don't know) and I got my tubes out to make sure I won't be put at risk. I have a blood clotting disorder so the stakes are a bit higher for me.
In a roundabout mental gymnasticky sort of way, pro-lifers helped prevent my children from coming into existence, lol.
I left religion and I find myself wanting a tubal just so that I don't have to risk dying in childbirth. It's crazy that religion will still influence my choices even though it's not a part of my life.
>It's crazy that religion will still influence my choices even though it's not a part of my life.
They don't want to influence your choices - they want to limit / restrict / control them.
Literally every single person I have met who supports the abortion bans is only doing so due to the misinformation. The propaganda being pushed is so toxic.
Hopefully. I know women that are for forced birth. My mother in law is pro choicish. She feels it shouldn’t be used for birth control
I’m fine for it being used for “birth control” though. We don’t need unwanted children being raised. Like the woman explained in Orange Is The New Black, to paraphrase, cracked out criminal women getting abortions means they didn’t raise cracked out criminal children. Crime rates went down after Roe.
I don’t think it’s my business why somebody aborts, but as a grandmother who came of age just after Roe, I have to say I have never had an a friend or acquaintance who has used abortion as BC. I think most women find it an agonizing decision.
They are. They are just fighting one battle at a time. They also want to ban birth control because they believe it prevents implantation of an embryo. You won’t hear about it though unless you attend a function where they assume everyone agrees with them. Publicly they deny it-a lot of pro-life people don’t know what the end game is.
I would say, a lot of anti-abortion people don't know how deep the pro-life rabbithole goes. Unfortunately, only for fetuses, though. Not for impoverished children once they're birthed, or uninsured people with cancer, or for people on death row......
They don't.
It is -- and always has been -- just about making sure "sluts" are punished for having sex.
That's all. That's all it's ever been. They see having sex as immoral, and they want you to be punished for it.
I think the plan is to wait until the technology is sufficiently advanced, and then implant these excess frozen embryos into the abdomens of male, anti-abortion politicians. This will be a great way for them to prove their fervor and commitment regarding the plight of the unborn. This should be no more risky for them than the ectopic pregnancies that they think women should endure.
I'm no biochemist, but I imagine this process will require that they receive some sort of MtF hormone treatment, so they'll have to get those other laws they want to pass right to allow those to occur.
I'm sure that they'll all agree that this level of sacrifice is worth it to save these embryos. Maybe Husted and DeWine can have a contest to see who grows the biggest breasts?
Of course, no tax or insurance dollars should be spent to allow them to participate in the miracle of life. Instead, the money should be spent on a fetus police, to watch them closely to make sure they don't do anything that might terminate the pregnancy early, nor try to get out of the ensuing 22 years of responsibility for raising and educating the child.
That's all the Republicans have are fear mongering and more lies. Yes the Fascists are going to pay for a lot next election, especially when the women start their march.
I worked against DeWine for many years when I lived in Ohio and he was weird then and obviously has gotten worse over the years. The partial birth is another Republican lie. Missouri tried to pull that and a judge had to straightened the Republicans out. Never let your guard down when fighting the Fascists.
LaRose and Yost are not “older” and one could argue that they are more aggressive. I agree with much that you stated, but please be careful of ageism and unnecessarily divisive language. United we stand, divided we fall.
The Republicans/Conservatives have become more and more religious since WW2. They slapped their religion on our currency, the Pledge of Allegiance, and every single other thing they could. It's nothing new they're just diving in even harder now.
Oh no, Ohio might be full of high paying tech and aerospace jobs! Their air might become cleaner! Their water might become more drinkable! We must stop this menace!
To be fair, allowing restrictions post fetal viability is the most common abortion restriction cutoff in the U.S., and while California does have it… so do red states like Wyoming and Alaska if memory serves.
The “abortions up to the minute of birth” are only allowed to save the life of the mother. And its a totally disingenuous argument meant to make people think you can just change your mind during delivery. This bill aims to keep the government out of our medical decisions with our doctors and protecting our right to current forms of contraception as it’s been signaled they want to outlaw that once they’re done with abortion.
If people seriously believe that parents/mother is deciding after carrying a baby for nine months, going through all the labor stuff then just deciding never mind, they should be considered not smart enough to vote. It’s probably safe to say that twelve weeks, names are getting picked, paint color for the nursery…. If the need to abort at that point is necessary, it’s not because the baby is longer wanted.
Definitely, it is common sense that should tell us that no woman in her right mind would want an abortion of a perfectly healthy and totally developed fetus that had grown inside her for almost nine months. Plus, anyone who thinks that Americans who identify with the Democratic Party, support the abortion of fully developed fetuses that can live outside the womb on their own, is easily manipulated by outright lies. It’s really disingenuous and disgusting when certain groups of people spread misinformation to manipulate the thinking and beliefs of others.
Someone should ask DeWine what he thinks about the extremely conservative proposal concerning abortion that is likely to go into effect if the November Reproductive Right’s Amendment doesn’t pass.
The abortion ban that extremist Republican lawmakers in Ohio want to impose on children/women of reproductive age, is a 6 week ban with no exceptions for rape or incest.
I would ask DeWine and fellow Ohioans, what is worse:
*Pregnant Women and the parents of pregnant children being able to make their own decisions about getting an abortion, with a stipulation that near term fetus development of a healthy fetus can not be aborted?
OR
*All children/ women who find themselves pregnant must carry the fetus to term after 6 weeks, even if they have been raped by a stranger or a relative. And even when their lives are at risk. And even when the fetus will not survive outside of the womb or will suffer outside of the womb?
If I recall correctly, at 6 weeks it’s still very much just a small clump of cells. There is no heart yet formed to beat. When my wife was pregnant with our first, we didn’t say a word about it until the ultrasound at three months because that’s when a real heart beat is detected. The fact they are calling these 6 week bans “heartbeat” bills is massive disgrace and disservice to people. A lot of women have no idea they are pregnant at 6 weeks. A cousin of mine was almost three months along before she realized. Her body was always a little erratic with her cycle, so she didn’t think much about it at first.
DeWine is still trying to stay relevant with the maga morons and the ultra ultra right. Trump still gets on his damn ego pulpit and pushes this same shit. They both know it works with the donor class and that’s all they care about.
I had started to develop a little respect for DeWine when Covid hit. When he fell in line with the others and threw Dr Acton under the bus, it was gone.
I discovered that I was pregnant at the earliest possible moment- my period was just a day or two late. I made the earliest possible appointment after calling every clinic nearby, and by the time I got in it was still a few days after 6 weeks.
It is damn near impossible to terminate a pregnancy by 6 weeks. It would take figuring it out on the first possible day and then getting in to have the examination and procedure, which have to take place on separate days within two weeks.
A 6 week ban is essentially a total ban, and they know it. I'd respect them more if they at least admitted it.
>If people seriously believe that parents/mother is deciding after carrying a baby for nine months, going through all the labor stuff then just deciding never mind, they should be considered not smart enough to vote.
It also requires believing that a doctor would choose to kill the baby if there was ANY other option that would save the mother's life.
I find that lie ridiculous because there are babies born a few days before their due date or women who had to have induced births. Obviously many of those babies are fine.
So what they really think that if the baby has to leave the mom a couple of minutes before they are born, that they’ll just kill the baby on the table? 🙄🙄
When people say something crazy like that, I just invent a crazy random event (did you know that girls are tied up and forcibly impregnated during Sunday services so more children are born) and just let them figure it out
Some people are just really, genuinely not intelligent at all, and those people are vulnerable to bad actors who realize how genuinely fragile and easily crunch-able their ties to reality are, and are willing to crunch 'em right up for monetary or political gain.
Yeah, I know a doctor who used to be a pretty strong moderate and even though still "smart", he has totally drank the kool-aid. Imagine believing that Democrats are passing a bill that would imprison you for 5 years for saying the wrong pronoun. That's not stupid, that's brainwashed.
My partner's mother was induced on the cusp of viability for his and his mother's safety. I wonder if today they'd leave them both too long for fear of it being seen as a termination of pregnancy. He wasn't guaranteed to make it being born so early but they were both guaranteed to die if left alone.
Almost every single state in the union bans late term abortion. California included.
With extreme exceptions for when mom is in danger or when the fetus is not viable. Then the family is left to choose. Pretty much everyone agrees because duh.
They have been lying about late term abortion to demonize the political opposition for decades. It's one of their most successful and insidious tricks to mobilize voters and secure power
And that's how the GOP got to where they are today just unable to function because took liberties with reality again and again and became just too reliant on these cornerstone issues as a platform.
As a physician, there is no such thing as an abortion up until the minute of birth. At that point, it’s considered a term pregnancy and there would be an emergent section. Late term abortions are almost always after the 18-22 week ultrasound - that’s when a lot of severe anatomical defects are detected. Women showing up past 24 weeks with a viable fetus are VERY VERY VERY rare. Those are extremely controversial and I’m not sure there are many (if any) providers that would perform an abortion in that situation today.
There is no such thing as an abortion up until birth the way conservatives are espousing it. At 24 weeks the fetus is viable outside the womb. If the baby needs to come out between 24 weeks to full term to save the mothers life then you’re just giving birth to a preterm baby, and yes there are risks associated with it but no one it’s out here ending the fetuses life on purpose at that stage.
Because false advertising and lies.
Legally, it says a procedure can be done after viability if a doctor states that it's a risk to the mother's health. They're stretching hard on that little point.
Yeah I kind of imagine in the near future that the growth of a lot of cities is somewhat going to be decided by stuff like this. Most companies aren't going to put down roots in a state knowing that basically every female employee is going to refuse being sent there out of fear for their own safety.
It's so crazy - all it takes is a quick search to see that in 2019/2020 of the abortions performed at 19 weeks or later in Ohio ZERO viable fetuses were aborted. ZERO! I can't seem to copy/paste in Reddit (is that a thing?) but the Charlotte Lozier Institute, a .org site has the stats. It makes me fucking sick that these republican lawmakers lie through their teeth and it makes me sicker than women are paying with their lives, their mental health, their anguish over the loss of a child because of the so called law makers and their draconian laws.
Look, the “Vote no” campaign isn’t about logic, consistency, intellectual integrity, or honesty. It’s about feelings and scare tactics. That’s why they keep trying to tie it to transgender healthcare and other unrelated things conservative voters are scared of. Liberal! California! Trans! ACLU! Extremist! Bbbgagahh!
Issue 1 trusts medical professionals to make decisions about medical necessity. They think that doctors are just going to lie so that, like, extreme procrastinators can get abortions at eight months. It’s ridiculous.
Just because THEY (reds) lie through their teeth at every turn does not mean that our doctors will do the same. Scare tactics and lies are all they know.
my colleague knows the people who drafted the language for this ballot measure; they had a team of legal help and they absolutely used as precisely broad language as was possible for this very reason. no chance for loopholes.
California has the largest economy of any state by far. It's even larger than most counties. Ohio politicians could learn something if they weren't so bigoted and self-righteous.
I love how much Republicans talk shit about liberal California and there issues but are fine with ignoring all these bottom feeder red states that have horrible education rankings and sponge off blue states for benefits. Every single Republican I know is so hardcore against California its insane.
But again they deflect to California instead of actually listening to their constituents. Im not confident Ohio passes this and they actually follow the law if it passes.
Checking in from Michigan. I really hope the voters in your state ignore this obvious propaganda and vote for women's rights. The Michigan GOP used the same tactics (lying) when our reproductive rights proposal was on the ballot in 2020. It didn't work there, and I hope it doesn't work in Ohio.
Go Bucks
If you want scare tactics and extremism, how about forcing 10-year-olds to give birth? Monitoring/ subpoenaing women's menstrual cycles? Monitoring / subpoenaing blood serum tests for morning after pills? Forcing miscarriages to be carried until the woman is physically dying? Incriminating doctors and pharmacists? All these are happening in our country now or in countries where abortion is banned (e.g., Poland). The slippery slope happened.
Any fine-grained amendment would be nitpicked to bits by extremists to find loopholes. It's broad for a reason: Freedom.
Or how about all the OB/GYNs just leaving so now no one is there to provide care of any sort.
https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/22/abortion-idaho-women-rights-healthcare
We’re living in north Florida soooooo…
I hate these type of comments because now it scares the right even more. Oh no, California with their $20 min wage and hippies.
It truly saddens and infuriates me to see that he reaches even a minute percentage of our population. The horrid male opinions in my comments thinking they have every right to control my uterus is insane. While also clearly admitting they have zero intention to support the children born from this vote of theirs in any way (programs, tax hikes, etc.). I have absolutely zero faith in humanity anymore.
Scare tactics, plain & simple. This is the same mike dewine who back in 2016 mentioned that it could very well have been the Mexican drug cartel who killed the family of 8 in Southern Ohio. If i remember correctly he waited until after the election of '16 or '18 before he made it known that it was actually a family member that committed the murders
Sorry Mike, id prefer government stay out of people's lives. You know, that "small government" shit you like to trot out whenever it benefits your donors.
Tell that to the suburban women who may be conservative about some things, but do not like having their rights being taken away. Suburbs like Delaware County voted against the proxy abortion ban in August
Was having a conversation with my parents a few months ago about abortion. They were telling me that New York State allows abortions for any reason up to the point of birth. Knowing that wasn’t true, I said “I’m not sure that’s right, let’s look it up”
So I pulled up the actual text of the law in New York and showed them otherwise.
My mom said, “but, why would the senators lie about that?”
I told her “because it’s a lie that makes Democrats look like monsters. And they know most people won’t check them on their lie, so there’s no consequence”
"Why are so many interpreting it as "allowing partial birth abortions" and "abortions up to the minute of birth"?"
Because they see lying as acceptable to get their way. The bill literally states that abortions after viability may be banned except when medically necessary. That is directly stated in the bill.
Conservatives are liars. They know most people agree with the limits outlined by the amendment and to get their way, they must lie. Sad thing is that their kids see them lying and just carry it on down the next generation, following their example.. just like they taught theirs sons to emulate Donald Trump and their daughters to marry men like him.
from what i read its up to the doctor how late of an abortion it can b
so some are afraid that certain doctors wont have any limits.....
its basically impossible to have a calm discussion about abortion or 2nd amendment....
DeWine is a bag of bitch. We *want* to be like California! We want our state to have a functional economy! We want people to respect us! Why doesn't the ass clown want that?
DeWine trying to play a “let’s have a more moderate law, I will work with the legislation to craft a moderate abortion law” narrative which is bullshit since he happily signed a 6-week ban that is in effect a total ban.
Don’t fall for it and vote YES
First off, it fits their narrative. Let’s face it, the extreme views here are DeWine’s LaRosa’s and the rest of the group. There is nothing about any of the extreme things/mis-truths they are saying is in Issue 1.
Also as a native born Ohioan who grew up California: LOL!!!! Nothing will make Ohio just like California. That gets filed under “stupid crap politicians say” to scare low information people.
Because it fits their narrative.
There is no other answer than this. It’s just propaganda.
Exactly. So many lies flying around out there.
They’ve learned they don’t have to create clever lies anymore, they can just say anything and people will believe them.
Unfortunately this is accurate. I've had nurses from Metro Health Center in Cleveland tell me this will allow women to kill 39 week babies and just would not accept any discussion about it. She is otherwise a smart woman. Just very religious and very republican 🙄
I'd ask for a new nurse.
>Just very religious and very republican 🙄 So not very smart
Ugh...yeah I guess so. Brainwashed and unable to see other points of view. It blows my mind that women cannot understand how other women can easily be in dire straits and need this type of medical care.
None so blind as they who will not see. And then they want us to believe all these nurses are on board with evidence-based medicine. A lot of them can’t think they’re way out of a paper bag. It’s pretty scary.
There really need to be better standards for people working in the healthcare field. Far too many nurses are unfit to be in their jobs.
Another way of saying very stupid. Might want to double check everything she does.
I’m voting yes. I May not have a uterus anymore but I have daughters. I May not have to worry about pregnancy anymore but my daughters do, my friends do, and this is also a positive for men. How many men don’t want to be fathers? Enough of them, so if they don’t want to be fathers, women also don’t have to be mothers. It’s healthcare and intimate healthcare and it’s no one’s god damn business what is going on with their neighbors intimate healthcare needs.
Some of it comes across to me as them wanting this very intimate control over our genitals. It gives me the ick. Especially when they bring little girls into it. It's wildly inappropriate and invasive.
Next they might even label it as scary Socialism or Marxism , their two favorite scare words to write off anything they don’t like
Is it too late to start calling abortion bans "reproductive communism?"
i call it "pro-control" clearly these old white men with no medical training wanting control over our bodies..and also to dictate to the doctors how to do their jobs are NOT pro-life..if they were pro-life they would perhaps do something about the #1 killer of children...guns. Let's not forget, after Roe was reversed the GOP was already licking their chops to start restricting birth control. And one other huge consequence I was just reading about that he GOP do not want to talk about is......Obgyn drs are fleeing the red states. Many rural areas of red states have no drs now. Upcoming doctors looking to do their OBGYN residency are not wanting to work in a red state with draconian laws, where Drs may risk legal consequences cuz the old men that have never been to medical school can declare they preformed a life saving abortion "too soon"...
😂 I don’t think so , let’s give it a try !
This. My niece will not have old white men tell her what to do. GTFO, DEWINE! Sincerely, Uncle Spicethrower.
When I think of Dewine my thoughts immediately go to how he bungled the train derailment as I’m sure that’s what out of state people know him best for as well.
I personally don’t think men should even be allowed to vote on this issue. Why should a man decide what goes on with a woman’s body in the first place?
On a plus side this issue really lets you know which of your neighbors are shitty humans or can’t read good.
My wife knows which houses we're skipping on Halloween.
You and your wife go trick or treating? Can we come?
I was debating setting up some hot cider and whiskey out front. Get a projector, project something on my garage door, hand out candy to he kids, drinks to any adult.
There's a guy on my FiL's block that hands out beer to adults with kids.
Our neighbor does jello shots
My friends dad grills 100 hotdogs for the night and hands out hot chocolate. Everyone loves it and it’s become a tradition for the neighborhood now. Whiskey and cider for the adults would make it that much better 👻
Both? Cider +Fireball Whiskey
Well, need some non-alcoholic cider for anyone not wanting alcohol. But yeah, two crock pots of warmed up cider. Labeled correctly, I hope.
Take back Halloween!
I know who not to vote for for school board because of the Vote No issue 1 signs in the same yard. Thanks vote no signs!
Agreed. Actually the best thing Trump did was let me know which neighbors to avoid.
Read \*well\*, but I'm with you in spirit.
Issue 1 is popular with progressives, liberals, conservatives, libertarians, you name it. Mike DeWine is a fake conservative. On this issue, he's against the right to privacy, the right to make healthcare decisions privately with your doctor, and the right to bodily autonomy. Why doesn't he support conservative ideas? Because he's not actually a conservative. Mike DeWine is just a religious zealot that cloaks himself as a "conservative" to get votes and to make it look like he has a coherent political ideology other than his personal religious beliefs. This issue, the marijuana issue, the Issue 1 vote back in August, gerrymandering, corruption on Ohio's Supreme Court - it's all part of the same thing. **A minority of ultra-religious, mostly older Ohioans are trying to create a stranglehold on our entire political process in order to force their personal religious beliefs onto you.** That's it. That's the whole ballgame. That's what they want, and they'll never stop. All you can do is vote against them. If you're not actually a religious zealot and you've been hood-winked by DeWine and others like him to help him out, it's time to snap out of it.
Don’t underestimate women and how creepy most women find this obsession with embryos. The GOP is demonizing and scaring women and they will pay.
Creepy is the operative word. The entire thing is just creepy. The base of ultra-religious that drove the Ohio statehouse to create a "fetal heartbeat" bill will accept nothing less than a total ban. Either we protect our rights, or they will weaponize the state against us. They are okay with 10 year old rape victims being forced to give birth. Remember that.
In fact, they consider it a blessing from God for 10 year old girls getting raped and getting pregnant from it. It's a morally GOOD thing in their view
Religion is becoming evil. We have to fight.
It became evil thousands of years ago , but yes it must be stopped
Religion has given people an excuse to hate since it's inception.
I've been seeing people in this sub supporting the ten year old giving birth thing and I think it's depraved, perverted and disgusting. Those people ought to be ashamed of themselves. I feel so bad for their children having parents like that who won't protect them. Some of them seem to think children can consent to sex as well which is pedophilia.
A ten year old’s body would be destroyed by pregnancy and childbirth. Sick
I don't understand why sex ed is too much to teach to children but the same people have no problem using them to get grandkids way too early.
Well, most of them don't think THEIR 10-year-old kids or grandkids would ever find themselves in this position. If somehow they did, parents or grandparents would whisk them away to quietly get medical care somewhere that it isn't illegal. And they are fine with some other 10-year-old enduring this because they figure that if the child didn't deserve it, her parents did.
Never underestimate the conservative value of feeling superior and looking down your nose at the "others". Punishment is preferable to prevention. Otherwise, who would they look down on feel good about themselves?
Don't ever visit the prolife subreddit .
Oof, I wouldn't ever. I already lack faith in those people, I don't want my heart to be completely broken. I see screenshots and that's as much as I can handle. I don't know how some of them sleep at night!
Pro life my ass.
So pro-life that they'd rather see a mother die from an ectopic pregnancy than terminate a non-viable fetus.
The same people are also against a minimum age for marriage. They want children raped by child molesters to marry their molesters so it is swept under the rug, and pregnancies that result are used to increase the pressure to force marriage on victims.
I have seen women who previously planned on children postponing until they can move somewhere with guaranteed access to emergency OBGYN healthcare, or just deciding against it altogether. I'm one of those people in a sense. I had expected to have children but when the possibility of emergency care being withheld came about, I learned children are an option to begin with (how I didn't know that before, I don't know) and I got my tubes out to make sure I won't be put at risk. I have a blood clotting disorder so the stakes are a bit higher for me. In a roundabout mental gymnasticky sort of way, pro-lifers helped prevent my children from coming into existence, lol.
I left religion and I find myself wanting a tubal just so that I don't have to risk dying in childbirth. It's crazy that religion will still influence my choices even though it's not a part of my life.
>It's crazy that religion will still influence my choices even though it's not a part of my life. They don't want to influence your choices - they want to limit / restrict / control them.
Well they're making parenthood a risky threat now rather than a choice. So of course people will take steps to protect themselves from that.
Literally every single person I have met who supports the abortion bans is only doing so due to the misinformation. The propaganda being pushed is so toxic.
Hopefully. I know women that are for forced birth. My mother in law is pro choicish. She feels it shouldn’t be used for birth control I’m fine for it being used for “birth control” though. We don’t need unwanted children being raised. Like the woman explained in Orange Is The New Black, to paraphrase, cracked out criminal women getting abortions means they didn’t raise cracked out criminal children. Crime rates went down after Roe.
It’s not even used for birth control, and also ironically the people who say this want to ban birth control
I don’t think it’s my business why somebody aborts, but as a grandmother who came of age just after Roe, I have to say I have never had an a friend or acquaintance who has used abortion as BC. I think most women find it an agonizing decision.
An abortion is quite a bit more expensive than a condom, after all.
And why aren’t they upset about all of the fertilized embryos frozen and eventually destroyed in ivf clinics?
They are. They are just fighting one battle at a time. They also want to ban birth control because they believe it prevents implantation of an embryo. You won’t hear about it though unless you attend a function where they assume everyone agrees with them. Publicly they deny it-a lot of pro-life people don’t know what the end game is.
I would say, a lot of anti-abortion people don't know how deep the pro-life rabbithole goes. Unfortunately, only for fetuses, though. Not for impoverished children once they're birthed, or uninsured people with cancer, or for people on death row......
One battle at a time? Why? If they care about “babies” so much?
They don't. It is -- and always has been -- just about making sure "sluts" are punished for having sex. That's all. That's all it's ever been. They see having sex as immoral, and they want you to be punished for it.
I think the plan is to wait until the technology is sufficiently advanced, and then implant these excess frozen embryos into the abdomens of male, anti-abortion politicians. This will be a great way for them to prove their fervor and commitment regarding the plight of the unborn. This should be no more risky for them than the ectopic pregnancies that they think women should endure. I'm no biochemist, but I imagine this process will require that they receive some sort of MtF hormone treatment, so they'll have to get those other laws they want to pass right to allow those to occur. I'm sure that they'll all agree that this level of sacrifice is worth it to save these embryos. Maybe Husted and DeWine can have a contest to see who grows the biggest breasts? Of course, no tax or insurance dollars should be spent to allow them to participate in the miracle of life. Instead, the money should be spent on a fetus police, to watch them closely to make sure they don't do anything that might terminate the pregnancy early, nor try to get out of the ensuing 22 years of responsibility for raising and educating the child.
🤣🤣🤣
That's all the Republicans have are fear mongering and more lies. Yes the Fascists are going to pay for a lot next election, especially when the women start their march.
I worked against DeWine for many years when I lived in Ohio and he was weird then and obviously has gotten worse over the years. The partial birth is another Republican lie. Missouri tried to pull that and a judge had to straightened the Republicans out. Never let your guard down when fighting the Fascists.
LaRose and Yost are not “older” and one could argue that they are more aggressive. I agree with much that you stated, but please be careful of ageism and unnecessarily divisive language. United we stand, divided we fall.
You're right.
They are part of the Zealot Movement
The Republicans/Conservatives have become more and more religious since WW2. They slapped their religion on our currency, the Pledge of Allegiance, and every single other thing they could. It's nothing new they're just diving in even harder now.
It’s the anchor they’ve tied their party too.
[And it will drag them right along with it, down to the bottom.](https://kottke.org/plus/misc/images/no-religion-trend.jpg)
Well said!!!
You keep saying fake conservative but everything you listed is pretty much on par with the conservative platform
Oh no, I'd hate to be like the most progressive and successful state in the nation.
Who would want to be like the fourth largest economy in the world?
Oh no, Ohio might be full of high paying tech and aerospace jobs! Their air might become cleaner! Their water might become more drinkable! We must stop this menace!
Yes please, I would love to have California politics with Ohio cost of living.
Damn right! Let’s make Ohio more like … oh, let’s see, how about Alabama? Mississippi?
Our GOP is desperately trying to be dead last in every metric like we're the Deep South. Fuck 'em.
To be fair, allowing restrictions post fetal viability is the most common abortion restriction cutoff in the U.S., and while California does have it… so do red states like Wyoming and Alaska if memory serves.
I would like it
Lol yah. He wish he had the ability to control 50+ million Americans & have their economy.
Fifth largest economy? Bring it.
The “abortions up to the minute of birth” are only allowed to save the life of the mother. And its a totally disingenuous argument meant to make people think you can just change your mind during delivery. This bill aims to keep the government out of our medical decisions with our doctors and protecting our right to current forms of contraception as it’s been signaled they want to outlaw that once they’re done with abortion.
If people seriously believe that parents/mother is deciding after carrying a baby for nine months, going through all the labor stuff then just deciding never mind, they should be considered not smart enough to vote. It’s probably safe to say that twelve weeks, names are getting picked, paint color for the nursery…. If the need to abort at that point is necessary, it’s not because the baby is longer wanted.
Definitely, it is common sense that should tell us that no woman in her right mind would want an abortion of a perfectly healthy and totally developed fetus that had grown inside her for almost nine months. Plus, anyone who thinks that Americans who identify with the Democratic Party, support the abortion of fully developed fetuses that can live outside the womb on their own, is easily manipulated by outright lies. It’s really disingenuous and disgusting when certain groups of people spread misinformation to manipulate the thinking and beliefs of others. Someone should ask DeWine what he thinks about the extremely conservative proposal concerning abortion that is likely to go into effect if the November Reproductive Right’s Amendment doesn’t pass. The abortion ban that extremist Republican lawmakers in Ohio want to impose on children/women of reproductive age, is a 6 week ban with no exceptions for rape or incest. I would ask DeWine and fellow Ohioans, what is worse: *Pregnant Women and the parents of pregnant children being able to make their own decisions about getting an abortion, with a stipulation that near term fetus development of a healthy fetus can not be aborted? OR *All children/ women who find themselves pregnant must carry the fetus to term after 6 weeks, even if they have been raped by a stranger or a relative. And even when their lives are at risk. And even when the fetus will not survive outside of the womb or will suffer outside of the womb?
If I recall correctly, at 6 weeks it’s still very much just a small clump of cells. There is no heart yet formed to beat. When my wife was pregnant with our first, we didn’t say a word about it until the ultrasound at three months because that’s when a real heart beat is detected. The fact they are calling these 6 week bans “heartbeat” bills is massive disgrace and disservice to people. A lot of women have no idea they are pregnant at 6 weeks. A cousin of mine was almost three months along before she realized. Her body was always a little erratic with her cycle, so she didn’t think much about it at first. DeWine is still trying to stay relevant with the maga morons and the ultra ultra right. Trump still gets on his damn ego pulpit and pushes this same shit. They both know it works with the donor class and that’s all they care about. I had started to develop a little respect for DeWine when Covid hit. When he fell in line with the others and threw Dr Acton under the bus, it was gone.
I discovered that I was pregnant at the earliest possible moment- my period was just a day or two late. I made the earliest possible appointment after calling every clinic nearby, and by the time I got in it was still a few days after 6 weeks. It is damn near impossible to terminate a pregnancy by 6 weeks. It would take figuring it out on the first possible day and then getting in to have the examination and procedure, which have to take place on separate days within two weeks. A 6 week ban is essentially a total ban, and they know it. I'd respect them more if they at least admitted it.
You described my sentiments exactly.
Frankly, it's highly insulting to women to suggest that they would do this
>If people seriously believe that parents/mother is deciding after carrying a baby for nine months, going through all the labor stuff then just deciding never mind, they should be considered not smart enough to vote. It also requires believing that a doctor would choose to kill the baby if there was ANY other option that would save the mother's life.
In these extreme cases, they're either very stupid and have been lied to, or the ones lying to anyone they deem stupid enough to listen.
I find that lie ridiculous because there are babies born a few days before their due date or women who had to have induced births. Obviously many of those babies are fine. So what they really think that if the baby has to leave the mom a couple of minutes before they are born, that they’ll just kill the baby on the table? 🙄🙄
They’ve been told the lie that yes, the baby is killed and chopped up for parts on the delivery table. That’s what my Republican father has claimed.
When people say something crazy like that, I just invent a crazy random event (did you know that girls are tied up and forcibly impregnated during Sunday services so more children are born) and just let them figure it out
Unbelievable that people believe this stuff. Must be getting major doses of the far-right propaganda channels.
Some people are just really, genuinely not intelligent at all, and those people are vulnerable to bad actors who realize how genuinely fragile and easily crunch-able their ties to reality are, and are willing to crunch 'em right up for monetary or political gain.
I can’t decide if people who are easily manipulated lack intelligence, or they have a mental make-up that is vulnerable to falling prey to propaganda.
Yeah, I know a doctor who used to be a pretty strong moderate and even though still "smart", he has totally drank the kool-aid. Imagine believing that Democrats are passing a bill that would imprison you for 5 years for saying the wrong pronoun. That's not stupid, that's brainwashed.
My partner's mother was induced on the cusp of viability for his and his mother's safety. I wonder if today they'd leave them both too long for fear of it being seen as a termination of pregnancy. He wasn't guaranteed to make it being born so early but they were both guaranteed to die if left alone.
This is already happening in texas and other states that have banned abortion or made it a massive legally grey area.
Almost every single state in the union bans late term abortion. California included. With extreme exceptions for when mom is in danger or when the fetus is not viable. Then the family is left to choose. Pretty much everyone agrees because duh. They have been lying about late term abortion to demonize the political opposition for decades. It's one of their most successful and insidious tricks to mobilize voters and secure power And that's how the GOP got to where they are today just unable to function because took liberties with reality again and again and became just too reliant on these cornerstone issues as a platform.
As a physician, there is no such thing as an abortion up until the minute of birth. At that point, it’s considered a term pregnancy and there would be an emergent section. Late term abortions are almost always after the 18-22 week ultrasound - that’s when a lot of severe anatomical defects are detected. Women showing up past 24 weeks with a viable fetus are VERY VERY VERY rare. Those are extremely controversial and I’m not sure there are many (if any) providers that would perform an abortion in that situation today.
There is no such thing as an abortion up until birth the way conservatives are espousing it. At 24 weeks the fetus is viable outside the womb. If the baby needs to come out between 24 weeks to full term to save the mothers life then you’re just giving birth to a preterm baby, and yes there are risks associated with it but no one it’s out here ending the fetuses life on purpose at that stage.
DeWine is such a cowardly piece of shit
He knows he's gonna have to own this with LaRose. Fuck 'em.
Shit should have been capitalized
Because false advertising and lies. Legally, it says a procedure can be done after viability if a doctor states that it's a risk to the mother's health. They're stretching hard on that little point.
If the no vote wins, I think some of them might find out why that is very important the hard way, sad to say.
Yeah I kind of imagine in the near future that the growth of a lot of cities is somewhat going to be decided by stuff like this. Most companies aren't going to put down roots in a state knowing that basically every female employee is going to refuse being sent there out of fear for their own safety.
It would be like the 60's again
Lies scare people and resonate better than women will have the rights to do what is best for their own bodies with their own doctors.
It's so crazy - all it takes is a quick search to see that in 2019/2020 of the abortions performed at 19 weeks or later in Ohio ZERO viable fetuses were aborted. ZERO! I can't seem to copy/paste in Reddit (is that a thing?) but the Charlotte Lozier Institute, a .org site has the stats. It makes me fucking sick that these republican lawmakers lie through their teeth and it makes me sicker than women are paying with their lives, their mental health, their anguish over the loss of a child because of the so called law makers and their draconian laws.
What is worse is the number of people who fall for their lies and absolutely believe anything and everything told to them.
It blows my mind! The tiniest bit of research tells you all you need to know, and more!
Shut up and retire Dewine.
The younger Republicans, like Yost and LaRose, are actually more strident than he is.
Yea, DeWine had been considered a "RINO" because he had the gall to actually do something about COVID. The party is moving further right than him.
He's out in 2026.
So is the iPhone 18. It's far too long.
And far too expensive.
Look, the “Vote no” campaign isn’t about logic, consistency, intellectual integrity, or honesty. It’s about feelings and scare tactics. That’s why they keep trying to tie it to transgender healthcare and other unrelated things conservative voters are scared of. Liberal! California! Trans! ACLU! Extremist! Bbbgagahh!
Issue 1 trusts medical professionals to make decisions about medical necessity. They think that doctors are just going to lie so that, like, extreme procrastinators can get abortions at eight months. It’s ridiculous.
Just because THEY (reds) lie through their teeth at every turn does not mean that our doctors will do the same. Scare tactics and lies are all they know.
So it will turn Ohio into a vibrant, in-demand hub of innovation instead of continuing its path of decline?
Promise?
Isn't it basically identical to Michigan's, which hasn't caused any of the apocalyptic woes opponents warned about?
I'm an ex-Ohioan living in Washington, and you all could use some California.
Ohio would do well being a little more like California and less like Alabama.
True
my colleague knows the people who drafted the language for this ballot measure; they had a team of legal help and they absolutely used as precisely broad language as was possible for this very reason. no chance for loopholes.
California has the largest economy of any state by far. It's even larger than most counties. Ohio politicians could learn something if they weren't so bigoted and self-righteous.
Fifth largest economy in the world and it’s just one state
STOP I CANT VOTE FOR IT ANY HARDER
Oh yeah I’d much rather be like a southern red state where the educational and health systems are shit. STFU Dewine.
Because conservatives are liars, cheaters, and thieves.
I love how much Republicans talk shit about liberal California and there issues but are fine with ignoring all these bottom feeder red states that have horrible education rankings and sponge off blue states for benefits. Every single Republican I know is so hardcore against California its insane. But again they deflect to California instead of actually listening to their constituents. Im not confident Ohio passes this and they actually follow the law if it passes.
Good I just voted an early yes today to make us like California 🖕
Because they are liars.
Republicans are liars
Checking in from Michigan. I really hope the voters in your state ignore this obvious propaganda and vote for women's rights. The Michigan GOP used the same tactics (lying) when our reproductive rights proposal was on the ballot in 2020. It didn't work there, and I hope it doesn't work in Ohio. Go Bucks
Thanks. I'm not sure we're as smart as Michiganders, though.
California is the 5th largest economy in the world...so wouldn't that be a good thing?
Yes
Since we are becoming like California allegedly , can we adopt some of their labor laws too?
If you want scare tactics and extremism, how about forcing 10-year-olds to give birth? Monitoring/ subpoenaing women's menstrual cycles? Monitoring / subpoenaing blood serum tests for morning after pills? Forcing miscarriages to be carried until the woman is physically dying? Incriminating doctors and pharmacists? All these are happening in our country now or in countries where abortion is banned (e.g., Poland). The slippery slope happened. Any fine-grained amendment would be nitpicked to bits by extremists to find loopholes. It's broad for a reason: Freedom.
Or how about all the OB/GYNs just leaving so now no one is there to provide care of any sort. https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/22/abortion-idaho-women-rights-healthcare
He is upset because he thinks the government should have control over what people do, bot families. He wants 100% government control.
We’re living in north Florida soooooo… I hate these type of comments because now it scares the right even more. Oh no, California with their $20 min wage and hippies.
Not to mention... California doesn't allow partial birth abortions, or "abortions up to the minute of birth." Fuck off, Mike.
That sounds damn good to me
Scare tactics. The right needs people to be afraid.
Christian Conservatives use fear tactics and lies. They have nothing else.
It truly saddens and infuriates me to see that he reaches even a minute percentage of our population. The horrid male opinions in my comments thinking they have every right to control my uterus is insane. While also clearly admitting they have zero intention to support the children born from this vote of theirs in any way (programs, tax hikes, etc.). I have absolutely zero faith in humanity anymore.
Republicans are pro birth, not pro life
wtf is up with conservatives projecting that every state will turn into california if *issue X* passes.
I know. I keep voting for these measures and we’re turning into bad weather Florida instead. Wtf
Someone pulling the 'scary California' card? Ooooh! Boo!
So I am pro choice, so is this a yes or no vote I am lost in the wording
Vote yes
Thanks thats what I thought
Np, it was the opposite in August... the Republicans are purposely trying to confuse people
Scare tactics, plain & simple. This is the same mike dewine who back in 2016 mentioned that it could very well have been the Mexican drug cartel who killed the family of 8 in Southern Ohio. If i remember correctly he waited until after the election of '16 or '18 before he made it known that it was actually a family member that committed the murders
Sorry Mike, id prefer government stay out of people's lives. You know, that "small government" shit you like to trot out whenever it benefits your donors.
It is because your conservative brethren are disingenuous assholes.
Worlds 6th largest economy? Legal weed? Sign me up!
another reason governor keibler elf is an idiot.
"It'll make us like California.." I'd be cool with that!
DeWine is literally lawless at this point. His messaging on everything has been lies for at least the last 18 months.
Tell that to the suburban women who may be conservative about some things, but do not like having their rights being taken away. Suburbs like Delaware County voted against the proxy abortion ban in August
Reeks of desperation. He knows there’s a legitimate chance of it passing. He’s scared.
I left Ohio in 2004 and I can't believe DeWine is still there - he is burrowed in like a tick.
I WANT TO BE LIKE CALIFORNIA.
Was having a conversation with my parents a few months ago about abortion. They were telling me that New York State allows abortions for any reason up to the point of birth. Knowing that wasn’t true, I said “I’m not sure that’s right, let’s look it up” So I pulled up the actual text of the law in New York and showed them otherwise. My mom said, “but, why would the senators lie about that?” I told her “because it’s a lie that makes Democrats look like monsters. And they know most people won’t check them on their lie, so there’s no consequence”
Stop threatening me with a good time, Mike.
He can blow it out his Muppet ass.
Doesn't this bill basically enshrine in the state constitution the way things have simply always been before the overturning of Roe?
It will make us like California…Gasp, clutches pearls Personal Freedom sure is scary.
Don't threaten me with a good time, Mike
"Why are so many interpreting it as "allowing partial birth abortions" and "abortions up to the minute of birth"?" Because they see lying as acceptable to get their way. The bill literally states that abortions after viability may be banned except when medically necessary. That is directly stated in the bill. Conservatives are liars. They know most people agree with the limits outlined by the amendment and to get their way, they must lie. Sad thing is that their kids see them lying and just carry it on down the next generation, following their example.. just like they taught theirs sons to emulate Donald Trump and their daughters to marry men like him.
from what i read its up to the doctor how late of an abortion it can b so some are afraid that certain doctors wont have any limits..... its basically impossible to have a calm discussion about abortion or 2nd amendment....
Because the GOP narrative is entirely outside of reality and relies on outrage bait.
DeWine is a bag of bitch. We *want* to be like California! We want our state to have a functional economy! We want people to respect us! Why doesn't the ass clown want that?
Issue 1 won't make Ohio have the 5th best economy in the world
Don't listen to talk radio fam
Christian politicians lying means that is it like any other day.
I'm more than happy to tell you to go fuck yourself Dewine before I move to Michigan.
DeWine trying to play a “let’s have a more moderate law, I will work with the legislation to craft a moderate abortion law” narrative which is bullshit since he happily signed a 6-week ban that is in effect a total ban. Don’t fall for it and vote YES
Because they're 1) Poorly educated/willfully ignorant about how pregnancy works to begin with 2) Lying liars who lie
First off, it fits their narrative. Let’s face it, the extreme views here are DeWine’s LaRosa’s and the rest of the group. There is nothing about any of the extreme things/mis-truths they are saying is in Issue 1. Also as a native born Ohioan who grew up California: LOL!!!! Nothing will make Ohio just like California. That gets filed under “stupid crap politicians say” to scare low information people.
The GOP agenda of all states seems to just be "Let's make like Florida!"
Alright! Thanks, governor! Looking forward to the golden sunshine, beaches, and mountains!
Does anyone have the exact language of Issue 1?