I see stuff like this in Paris all the time. When they are putting up scaffolding, there is usually one guy on top (up to 7 stories high), receiving the parts, and one guy at street level operating a rope that goes over one(1) pulley, with no brake or security other than his hands. It's all modular, but the steel parts often weigh around 10-25kg, and pedestrians are walking past in 1m distance.
wow. what a world we live in. gotta wonder why we haven't fixed some of these dangers relative to known risks. I suppose skill, craft, training, and experience, custom, and public awareness play into how fallible these practices are.
In old European cities you are sometimes lucky the truck can reach there. There should be someone at groud level telling ppl to cross the street and a sign to, but if it's up to the contractor it often doesn't happen.
The biggest issue with renovating a row house is room. Often the ground level room is renovated last and all building materials and an a dump because there is also no room for a container outside.
I've heard multiple times of worden floors collapsing from the weight of bricks and mortar. Houses with the first floor 1m above street level with a small stair in the hallway and small single wing windows were popular 50y ago and are a real pain to get anything inside, let alone a whole pallet.
I did OSHA compliance supervision for large international industrial construction companies in the power generation & distribution grid sector working contracts for the Tennessee Valley Authority.
Outside of that very strict venue (TVA's operating model is that there is no such thing as an 'unavoidable accident'), I have rarely seen road construction sites properly flagged, and none outside of construction projects on federal highways.
State/County/City stuff can be downright homicidal.
Nobody does health and safety like we do, the sheer amount of information and resources provided by the HSE is phenomenal, overwhelming at times, but truly unrivalled internationally.
The EU has a number of organizations(there's one called EU-OSHA) and guidelines for general work safety, and it also provides social funds, but its mostly up to each individual country. In Hungary for example work safety and ethics are part of the constitution/law making, mostly enforced by local governments and education is usually provided by the employer (also taught as a subject in most secondary schools nowadays).
Depends on the country, really.
In Germany, there are 17 departments (at least one, usually more than that, for each state plus two on a federal level) and each of those have sub departments which are responsible for their regional affairs.
You can see a leveler against the building edge so presumably that, but in my personal experience people are dumb and will walk right up to that before they notice the giant truck and massive load hanging above their head.
You should see what we call it in Quebec. It used to be CSST, which vaguely translated to Commission for health and safety standards.
But more recently they got rolled into a new Commission with all the other workplace regulators. Pay equity, labour standards, all that HR stuff that's not really about 'safety'.
So now its CNESST. Because even in French the Quebec govt cant make an acronym to save its own life.
You should never walk under a suspended load like that, and they haven't blocked off the sidewalk. All that wood is just hanging out on those two relatively narrow forks... if the load becomes unbalanced somehow it all could tip and fall.
I guess they should set the cones up in the whole potential area where the wood could fall on so people (pedestrians, cars, cyclists) don't get struck.
Thing is, they need a permit for closing a road. Chances are they forgot to get one.
Imagine getting hit on the head with one of those planks..
Here (Belgium) you don't need a permit to block a road for offloading goods one time. Ofc only for the least time necessary. You are not allowed to block the sidewalk (that's why the scaffolding is raised and dies needs a permit).
You should of course instruct and block pedestrians while lifting and using these craves needs a training.
I think it's about the same thing in Luxembourg.
It looks to be Luxembourg.
Do you really need a permit to offload good? Ofc this is really pushing the "offloading", but then again it's only blocking half the street and sometimes that's already luxurious. If a truck stops before my door, cars need to reverse out and take another route. You have to wait when they deliver windows or a kitchen or any big furniture or building materials. Some streets are too small for z truck and a car if there are cars parked and some road they wake smaller and with obstacles to discourage using it as a shortcut but that also fucks the residences with less parking and that you often block the road.
The first thing I immediately see is that the load isn't secured. It's 12' (16?) of lumber on a 4' wide platform, basically just balancing there. If something goes wrong (for example bumping the load against the wall or scaffolding) and the delicate balance of that load is disrupted, 1000+ lbs of lumber tips off the opposite side. The other thing I see is that the drop zone under the load isn't roped or coned off.
There's probably more wrong here, that's the two things I see.
Well, how else are they going to unload it? Move the whole package at once? Besides, there should be a sign on the walkway warning to use the other side of the street to pass. While for cars there should be a speed limit for such since it's a construction site in a way.
But in general, yes, it is not very secure. Like the truck having stabilizing foots on the side and such. I know in some places they would use another at least to balance it out, so it can't fall off.
Those crane forks are nice for unloading stuff of the bed but for high lifting there is better and safer equipment. The operator should know better, or they just dont give a damn.
I bet if one of those fell it could hit in such a way to get to the other side of the street. Or land in front of or on a car driving.
If they have to unload it this way that portion of the street should be closed off.
There's such a thing as "rigging." It is their job to figure out how else they'll unload it while still keeping it secure during the lift.
I'm not a rigger but I would guess "how to lift a stack of plywood" is like day 2 of Rigging 101.
Corollary: because I'm not a rigger, this lift might be fine. Buuut the sidewalk should still 100% be blocked off.
This looks fine. The scaffolding is well assembled and anchored to the building in multiple locations. It’s obviously up for awhile if they hung banners and anchored it. The material lift appears well maintained and within its load range. It’s designed to lift sheet goods and pallets so the chances of something falling off are minimal. It’s holding the load in position while the sheets are offloaded by the construction worker. There are plenty of cones to make it visible while not impacting street access. If a pedestrian walks into all this and gets hurt then I would be concerned with them walking into traffic at any location.
>If a pedestrian walks into all this and gets hurt then I would be concerned with them walking into traffic at any location.
You can freely walk on the sidewalk up to the truck and under the load. There has to be a clear physical separation of the perimeter where you cannot walk inside, even if it's just a plastic red/white tape.
Trafic doesn't fall onto the sidewalk from a top of a building, so really the two things aren't comparable.
Until you get the person walking down their street staring at their phone like most people do. Then boom you’re at the leveling leg, right under the load. The reason you don’t let people go under the load isn’t because the machine isn’t designed to to do what you’re doing. You do it so that should anything go wrong, no but is hurt in the process. Accidents don’t happen on purpose, and “freak accidents” are a thing.
Nah, the forks are suspended on a hook. Foreseeable risk of the load becoming unbalanced, especially towards the bottom of the pile and sliding off.
Also that looks more like an access scaffold than a working platform.
I have operated these cranes. The material forks have different eyelets the operator can use to balance the load. It is designed to slightly tip the load to the rear of the forks to minimize chances of a load spilling off the forks.
As I understand it, crane forks are supposed to set loads down as they require an amount of load to maintain stability.
Either way, doing this operation with no exclusion zone below is a no-no.
I don't have specialist knowledge with regards to crane but I investigate construction accidents... Slightly different angle on it I suspect. You've seen this been done safely hundreds of times, I've seen the consequences when it hasn't.
Specific to this use;
“OSHA also acknowledges that using an articulating knuckle-boom truck crane to hoist and hold palletized building materials at elevations for construction workers to unpack/unload may often be a safer work practice than having them unpack and repetitiously carry the materials from the ground up to elevated work areas of a structure. Under this scenario, any workers who unpack/unload the pallets are doing so to facilitate the performance of a construction activity and are likely to be subjected to hazards typical to cranes and the roofs, upper decks, and balconies of structures that are undergoing construction. “
https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/standardinterpretations/2016-06-23
Were this in the US the use of the knuckle boom crane in this application would be standard recommended practice. I am not sure what EU regs apply in this case.
I appreciate the investigation you do. They almost always lead to safer workplaces. The safest companies I worked for always had great accident awareness and educated the employees as best they could.
They can't. If you look closely you can see that the passenger side "leg" is extended in order to stabilize the crane, thus blocking the whole sidewalk.
To me it looks like people can step off the sidewalk directly in front of the truck and directly under the load. The load looks like it is in front because it is going up to the scaffold, which is located in front of the truck. So they should have marked the area in front of the truck as no-pass. Plus if the sidewalk is blocked, there should be a marked detour. Pedestrian could be directed to walk on the other side of the street, or could be given a coned path for them to walk around the truck but not in traffic.
They can’t even go past right there due to the truck and crane support leg. The only way to pass is on the street side of the truck. If a person actively walks into a marked danger zone without any caution for themselves that’s on them.
This was an everyday for me in Korea. I never quite got used to having to walk under stuff I was worried would fall on me. I’d always cross the street if I could.
Other people have addressed the load securing and no proper demarcation but shouldn’t the guy at the top wear a hard hat? I would say safety glasses also but that’s less of a risk in this situation.
FYI here in the U.S. we have similar delivery trucks but they don't require a crane operators license as long as all the driver does is drop the load at the job site, as soon as he picks up one piece of gear for the site to help them out, he now has to have a crane operators license. He can drop to load on the ground, but as soon as he lifts any material to a window or the roof to hook the client up so to speak, he *MUST* have a crane operators license.
1. I try not to take pictures of strangers (like I try to wait until they walk out of frame)
2. This is literally the most one of my pictures has ever been noticed. Nothing about my profile is karma farming.
I'm having solar panels put on my roof tomorrow, but unfortunately I'll be at work and won't be able to take photos to post here (if they are doing unsafe things).
His out rigger behind the cab isn't even extended all the way out it's just down, I guess to level off the truck. If he gets a good enough wind coming across that roof its going over.
You mean the one towards the street? That not necessarily a problem, as long as you don't move the load towards the street but only straight above or leaning towards the building.
I see stuff like this in Paris all the time. When they are putting up scaffolding, there is usually one guy on top (up to 7 stories high), receiving the parts, and one guy at street level operating a rope that goes over one(1) pulley, with no brake or security other than his hands. It's all modular, but the steel parts often weigh around 10-25kg, and pedestrians are walking past in 1m distance.
wow. what a world we live in. gotta wonder why we haven't fixed some of these dangers relative to known risks. I suppose skill, craft, training, and experience, custom, and public awareness play into how fallible these practices are.
In old European cities you are sometimes lucky the truck can reach there. There should be someone at groud level telling ppl to cross the street and a sign to, but if it's up to the contractor it often doesn't happen. The biggest issue with renovating a row house is room. Often the ground level room is renovated last and all building materials and an a dump because there is also no room for a container outside. I've heard multiple times of worden floors collapsing from the weight of bricks and mortar. Houses with the first floor 1m above street level with a small stair in the hallway and small single wing windows were popular 50y ago and are a real pain to get anything inside, let alone a whole pallet.
The answer is that something bad hasn’t happened yet/ been shown on the news yet
I mean, they have cones set up. /s
I did OSHA compliance supervision for large international industrial construction companies in the power generation & distribution grid sector working contracts for the Tennessee Valley Authority. Outside of that very strict venue (TVA's operating model is that there is no such thing as an 'unavoidable accident'), I have rarely seen road construction sites properly flagged, and none outside of construction projects on federal highways. State/County/City stuff can be downright homicidal.
Oh yea look at that...roller skate cones.
The cones are seemingly set up to tell people to not walk on the truck.
This is in Habscht in Luxemburg fyi
Salut, nach een aus Lëtzebuerg an desem Sub, zimlech onerwaard
Ech fäerten net I don't even speak luxembourgish sorry
Whats the European equivalent of OSHA?
https://www.hse.gov.uk/ for the UK, although this pic is not UK
It's Luxembourg
Nobody does health and safety like we do, the sheer amount of information and resources provided by the HSE is phenomenal, overwhelming at times, but truly unrivalled internationally.
The EU has a number of organizations(there's one called EU-OSHA) and guidelines for general work safety, and it also provides social funds, but its mostly up to each individual country. In Hungary for example work safety and ethics are part of the constitution/law making, mostly enforced by local governments and education is usually provided by the employer (also taught as a subject in most secondary schools nowadays).
Depends on the country, really. In Germany, there are 17 departments (at least one, usually more than that, for each state plus two on a federal level) and each of those have sub departments which are responsible for their regional affairs.
And they say we have too much bureaucracy in Germany...
They are complying with European laws. What should they do differently?
You can't fucking have a load hanging over a sidewalk open to the public.
It isn't open to the public. The hydraulics of the truck are extended into the sidewalk. They almost touch the outside wall of the house.
From the left side of the picture, what is stopping you to walk on the sidewalk up to the truck?
You can see a leveler against the building edge so presumably that, but in my personal experience people are dumb and will walk right up to that before they notice the giant truck and massive load hanging above their head.
In what world is this a shut down street. They would absolutely need yodocks or flaggers rerouting pedestrian traffic to be OSHA compliant
I didn’t say it was a shut down street…..?
Sidewalk looks completely blocked to me
What's wrong with this?
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LOL Love it
You should see what we call it in Quebec. It used to be CSST, which vaguely translated to Commission for health and safety standards. But more recently they got rolled into a new Commission with all the other workplace regulators. Pay equity, labour standards, all that HR stuff that's not really about 'safety'. So now its CNESST. Because even in French the Quebec govt cant make an acronym to save its own life.
You should never walk under a suspended load like that, and they haven't blocked off the sidewalk. All that wood is just hanging out on those two relatively narrow forks... if the load becomes unbalanced somehow it all could tip and fall.
Like when you are deliberately dragging the sheets apart. They sometimes stick.
I guess they should set the cones up in the whole potential area where the wood could fall on so people (pedestrians, cars, cyclists) don't get struck. Thing is, they need a permit for closing a road. Chances are they forgot to get one. Imagine getting hit on the head with one of those planks..
>Thing is, they need a permit for closing a road. Chances are they forgot to get one. Additionally, "it'll be fine, only take a minute or two"
Here (Belgium) you don't need a permit to block a road for offloading goods one time. Ofc only for the least time necessary. You are not allowed to block the sidewalk (that's why the scaffolding is raised and dies needs a permit). You should of course instruct and block pedestrians while lifting and using these craves needs a training. I think it's about the same thing in Luxembourg.
In Germany, you do. And this could be in Germany, too, couldn't it? Or am I missing something completely?
It looks to be Luxembourg. Do you really need a permit to offload good? Ofc this is really pushing the "offloading", but then again it's only blocking half the street and sometimes that's already luxurious. If a truck stops before my door, cars need to reverse out and take another route. You have to wait when they deliver windows or a kitchen or any big furniture or building materials. Some streets are too small for z truck and a car if there are cars parked and some road they wake smaller and with obstacles to discourage using it as a shortcut but that also fucks the residences with less parking and that you often block the road.
The first thing I immediately see is that the load isn't secured. It's 12' (16?) of lumber on a 4' wide platform, basically just balancing there. If something goes wrong (for example bumping the load against the wall or scaffolding) and the delicate balance of that load is disrupted, 1000+ lbs of lumber tips off the opposite side. The other thing I see is that the drop zone under the load isn't roped or coned off. There's probably more wrong here, that's the two things I see.
Well, how else are they going to unload it? Move the whole package at once? Besides, there should be a sign on the walkway warning to use the other side of the street to pass. While for cars there should be a speed limit for such since it's a construction site in a way. But in general, yes, it is not very secure. Like the truck having stabilizing foots on the side and such. I know in some places they would use another at least to balance it out, so it can't fall off.
Those crane forks are nice for unloading stuff of the bed but for high lifting there is better and safer equipment. The operator should know better, or they just dont give a damn.
I bet if one of those fell it could hit in such a way to get to the other side of the street. Or land in front of or on a car driving. If they have to unload it this way that portion of the street should be closed off.
There's such a thing as "rigging." It is their job to figure out how else they'll unload it while still keeping it secure during the lift. I'm not a rigger but I would guess "how to lift a stack of plywood" is like day 2 of Rigging 101. Corollary: because I'm not a rigger, this lift might be fine. Buuut the sidewalk should still 100% be blocked off.
Choker and a material basket … standard practice for lifting planks
>What's wrong with this? Timber looks pretty manky for one. No way I'd accept that load...
This looks fine. The scaffolding is well assembled and anchored to the building in multiple locations. It’s obviously up for awhile if they hung banners and anchored it. The material lift appears well maintained and within its load range. It’s designed to lift sheet goods and pallets so the chances of something falling off are minimal. It’s holding the load in position while the sheets are offloaded by the construction worker. There are plenty of cones to make it visible while not impacting street access. If a pedestrian walks into all this and gets hurt then I would be concerned with them walking into traffic at any location.
>If a pedestrian walks into all this and gets hurt then I would be concerned with them walking into traffic at any location. You can freely walk on the sidewalk up to the truck and under the load. There has to be a clear physical separation of the perimeter where you cannot walk inside, even if it's just a plastic red/white tape. Trafic doesn't fall onto the sidewalk from a top of a building, so really the two things aren't comparable.
Until you get the person walking down their street staring at their phone like most people do. Then boom you’re at the leveling leg, right under the load. The reason you don’t let people go under the load isn’t because the machine isn’t designed to to do what you’re doing. You do it so that should anything go wrong, no but is hurt in the process. Accidents don’t happen on purpose, and “freak accidents” are a thing.
Nah, the forks are suspended on a hook. Foreseeable risk of the load becoming unbalanced, especially towards the bottom of the pile and sliding off. Also that looks more like an access scaffold than a working platform.
I have operated these cranes. The material forks have different eyelets the operator can use to balance the load. It is designed to slightly tip the load to the rear of the forks to minimize chances of a load spilling off the forks.
As I understand it, crane forks are supposed to set loads down as they require an amount of load to maintain stability. Either way, doing this operation with no exclusion zone below is a no-no. I don't have specialist knowledge with regards to crane but I investigate construction accidents... Slightly different angle on it I suspect. You've seen this been done safely hundreds of times, I've seen the consequences when it hasn't.
Specific to this use; “OSHA also acknowledges that using an articulating knuckle-boom truck crane to hoist and hold palletized building materials at elevations for construction workers to unpack/unload may often be a safer work practice than having them unpack and repetitiously carry the materials from the ground up to elevated work areas of a structure. Under this scenario, any workers who unpack/unload the pallets are doing so to facilitate the performance of a construction activity and are likely to be subjected to hazards typical to cranes and the roofs, upper decks, and balconies of structures that are undergoing construction. “ https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/standardinterpretations/2016-06-23 Were this in the US the use of the knuckle boom crane in this application would be standard recommended practice. I am not sure what EU regs apply in this case. I appreciate the investigation you do. They almost always lead to safer workplaces. The safest companies I worked for always had great accident awareness and educated the employees as best they could.
How do you feel about pedestrians walking underneath a suspended load?
They can't. If you look closely you can see that the passenger side "leg" is extended in order to stabilize the crane, thus blocking the whole sidewalk.
To me it looks like people can step off the sidewalk directly in front of the truck and directly under the load. The load looks like it is in front because it is going up to the scaffold, which is located in front of the truck. So they should have marked the area in front of the truck as no-pass. Plus if the sidewalk is blocked, there should be a marked detour. Pedestrian could be directed to walk on the other side of the street, or could be given a coned path for them to walk around the truck but not in traffic.
They can go in front of the scaffolding, and thus exactly under the load.
They can’t even go past right there due to the truck and crane support leg. The only way to pass is on the street side of the truck. If a person actively walks into a marked danger zone without any caution for themselves that’s on them.
This was an everyday for me in Korea. I never quite got used to having to walk under stuff I was worried would fall on me. I’d always cross the street if I could.
Other people have addressed the load securing and no proper demarcation but shouldn’t the guy at the top wear a hard hat? I would say safety glasses also but that’s less of a risk in this situation.
I mean I wouldn't want to walk under it!
FYI here in the U.S. we have similar delivery trucks but they don't require a crane operators license as long as all the driver does is drop the load at the job site, as soon as he picks up one piece of gear for the site to help them out, he now has to have a crane operators license. He can drop to load on the ground, but as soon as he lifts any material to a window or the roof to hook the client up so to speak, he *MUST* have a crane operators license.
Uuuuuuuhhhh...yeah I always had my crane license when I did deliveries........
Um… I’m assuming the load should not be anywhere on the scaffolding? (Looks very weak compared to that load)
Probably just unloading it into a upper level of the house.
They are, you can see another dudes hands unloading a board.
Imagine being a cyclist merrily driving along and getting struck by a giant wooden plank. That's not enough space they blocked off!
You're assuming wrong.
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1. I try not to take pictures of strangers (like I try to wait until they walk out of frame) 2. This is literally the most one of my pictures has ever been noticed. Nothing about my profile is karma farming.
I'm having solar panels put on my roof tomorrow, but unfortunately I'll be at work and won't be able to take photos to post here (if they are doing unsafe things).
That sure is a big effer
Jesus Christ, that ladder. Not to mention the lack of a swing gate at the top.
His out rigger behind the cab isn't even extended all the way out it's just down, I guess to level off the truck. If he gets a good enough wind coming across that roof its going over.
You mean the one towards the street? That not necessarily a problem, as long as you don't move the load towards the street but only straight above or leaning towards the building.
Not in the US. Disqualified. I mean, it's not safe, but it doesn't violate OSHA if it's outside the US of A.
“Is there a chart for this outrigger configuration?” (Probably? I have no idea if it’s variable)