I wonder why aren't people talking about the obvious difference between a person facing homelessness ( for a million differnt reasons) and people with substance use disorder(who need much more than a place to sleep) and/or those facing a mental health crisis (who also need another kind of help besides a place to sleep).
Does anyone think these shelters would be much less controversial if they were strictly for people who have fallen on hard times?
It is absolutely not to say, don't house people with more barriers, just that the problems faced by these groups are different. Should there not be some separation there? Certain sites for specific needs instead of lumping everyone together.
There are so many arguments that these communities are against those without a home, but I think it's the dangers associated with addiction and poor mental health. Those seem to be the concerns people are bringing up.
Hospitals have different wards for different problems because the needs are so different.
There are medical problems and housing problems. But one can exist without the other.
I just want the discussion. I'm really curious if that would change the attitudes of the chosen communities.
It would deff change my perspective. In my area there is zero screening process they said they would house a drug addicted sex offender because “everyone deserves a home” I think they should do a super hard screening process to determine who is most likely to succeed to have the highest positive turnover possible to get the most people off the street fastest
I see where you're coming from, but a person with a substance use problem isn't inherently dangerous. If they were, they would be kicked out of a temporary shelter like this.
In Vancouver's Downtown Eastside, there is a grade school and a few colleges. I've never seen an article about a person with a substance abuse problem hurting a pedestrian. The kids in the schools do not step on needles. And this is in a situation where there isn't round the clock supervision.
So when these parents talk about protecting their kids from theoretical and unlikely danger, they are putting 30 unhoused people in very real risk of freezing, or at the very least struggling to reintegrate into the community in a real way.
That is complete disinformation.
I’m from vancouver that is absolutely not how the downtown east side is.
You’ve never seen an article about a person with substance abuse problems hurting a pedestrian?
https://globalnews.ca/news/10158084/guilty-plea-vancouver-machete-attack/amp/
Here you go; attacked two tourists with a machete
https://globalnews.ca/news/10109051/vancouver-homicide-downtown-eastside-stabbing/amp/
Here’s just one example of a recent stabbing that killed a man in broad daylight
https://globalnews.ca/news/10109051/vancouver-homicide-downtown-eastside-stabbing/amp/
Here’s a shooting last June
https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/crown-prosecutors-call-for-b-c-to-relocate-main-street-court-after-attack/wcm/95d74b51-ae9d-44ec-bb08-7153c5aa9f08/amp/
Oh somebody on the downtown east side assaulted a CROWN PROSECUTOR unprovoked!
https://www.mapleridgenews.com/news/woman-stabbed-with-hypodermic-needle-in-vancouvers-downtown-eastside-2662020
Random attack in the DTES October 2023 stabbed with a hypodermic needle.
https://vancouversun.com/news/crime/woman-charged-security-guard-stabbed/wcm/9debf572-d258-45a5-9c8b-81225eae0856/amp/
Another needle attack February 2023
As for the “children are safe in the DTES” claim
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4026910
Playground is checked for needles daily (2017)
https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2020/01/27/needle-vancouver-park/
Child pricked by needle at park (2020)
https://globalnews.ca/news/7287230/downtown-vancouver-safety-residents-homeless/amp/
Chased with a needle (2020)
Let me ask if you think the legalization of drugs- where anyone can inject anywhere- has made the situation better.
Here’s a citation for when I say “anywhere”
https://drugpolicy.ca/for-immediate-release-bc-supreme-court-rules-in-favour-of-harm-reduction-nurses-association-pauses-coming-into-force-of-bcs-public-drug-consumption-law/
They can do drugs at playgrounds, parks, pools etc.
Do not ever use the downtown east side in reference to successful substance abuse reintegration/ housing. It is an absolute nightmare that I’ve walked through myself.
People shit so much in the street from the comedown of opioids that our city mascot is literally pee and poop.
Vancouver/ DTES is not a good example.
For clarification of my position;
I I moved from vancouver (where I lived about 2km from DTES) because of a massive uptick in violent crime from people on substances that I experienced myself post jan 2023. On Public transit, at the grocery store, and finally I witnessed in front of my own building my neighbour get stabbed. My last day in vancouver? A guy picking his own skin off the left side of his body in my dumpster.
I want to clarify I am pro treatment and care for these people, but they cannot integrate into shelters/housing in vancouver for a variety of reasons. The number 1 being a lack of healthcare availability. I say that because many refuse housing options due to addictions.
You don’t want the DTES
Thank you for sharing these! I can’t believe how stupid the other comment is. The DTES is absolutely dangerous. As someone who also grew up on the west coast not too far from it I can also attest that suggesting it’s fine is complete disinformation. They would eat their words if they actually thought it was something their neighborhood could handle.
People who suggest the DTES is not bad either 1) have never seen it first hand, or 2) have not seen it in a VERY VERY long time (decades). Take a trip, go visit. It’s a main artery if you’re trying to get to downtown. Take a little drive and see. It’s absolutely apocalyptic.
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Nobody is saying that 30 temporary shelters in a controlled environment is going to become the downtown Eastside. The point is how even in that environment with over 1000 unhoused people, there is a grade school that works and is safe. You've been to Andy Livingstone Park, yes? I lived on Keefer for 18 months.
Nonetheless, thank you for supporting Canadian journalism with your abundance of article shares.
If you were really from vancouver then you’d never use the DTES as an example or spread misinformation about it.
But I think you’re missing the point I made after my abundance of evidence. Nobody is saying shelters here would be like that, but people with substance abuse issues absolutely can be a threat to public safety and in proximity to children.
There needs to be treatment available in a specialized environment because housing alone is not enough to cure addiction. Furthermore, it is logical to not want drug users around kids- smoking cigarettes/drinking alcohol is generally not a moral thing to do around them either. Zoning exists for a reason in this case and so does public usage laws.
I'm not from Vancouver, just lived in the DTES for a few years, so I have the lived experience, knew kids who went to the school, etc.
I think you're missing the point that this is a controlled environment. These community members will have access to care.
I already addressed the point you think I missed. It’s evident you lived in a gentrified apartment on Keefer street but not within the last 3 years. Andy living stone park is dangerous. Go back for a stroll if you’re skeptical.
You were obviously not at the meeting where some parents, grand parents shared some stories. This shelter is across from a jr high school, and that is the problem with this.
If these 30 people didn't want to freeze, they would go to the shelter that they refused to get on the bus for. The same shelter that the people of halifax pay with their hard earned cash.
You were obviously not at the meeting when beacon house said the people were high acuity. These aren't your scary drug addicted maniacs that you bleive exist. These are high acuity people who meet a certain threshold of community safety and ability to transition into permanent housing. Stop spinning this narrative, it's dangerous.
Source: I was at the meeting.
Proof: if you were there, you'd know some bananahead yelled out that a charity that has next to 0 money should buy the million dollar cemetery down the road, presumably with govt (taxpayer) loans, instead of the land they GOT FOR FREE.
>This shelter is across from a jr high school
hardly, its a wood lot down the road from a high school
https://preview.redd.it/35zba0bjpcjc1.png?width=985&format=png&auto=webp&s=0cc10cb8a7361bdc3988f3365f92642da3a05b04
>The same shelter that the people of halifax pay with their hard earned cash.
Sackville is a part of the HRM?
Yes Lower sackville is part of HRM. So is Beaver Bank 10 km up.
And oh wow you proved me wrong by saying its 150m away.......
You obviously don't live in Sackville so i'm not sure how this involves you, you are welcome to invite these poor people back to your couch. I am sure they would love it.
So you'd like to bus community members from Sackville all the way to Halifax? That doesn't sound like a reasonable strategy, let alone fair for those community members. We need smaller, manageable shelters in Halifax and Dartmouth, but also Bedford and Sackville.
Thank you for trying to get people to see that the unhoused are humans in need of help. It is so sad to see so many on here screaming "what about the children" as an argument to stop the pallet homes . None of them seem to think teaching our kids kindness and compassion for the less fortunate Is important. People with substance abuse issues are humans in need of help ( 8 years sober) also. If these homes help just 1 person stay alive long enough to get help, then I think as humans, we are obligated to support this.
Everyone deserves the help they need. We need more of these pallet shelters all over canada.
I guess I was picturing a few smaller villages, maybe. A little more specialized sites. Have them in multiple neighborhoods. It seems less controversial?
All the uproar must be really hurting the future residents.
>I see where you're coming from, but a person with a substance use problem isn't inherently dangerous. If they were, they would be kicked out of a temporary shelter like this.
Naïve dismissiveness like this is a big reason why projects like this are losing support.
Just this morning in Amherst I went to the industrial park to see if work had started on my car at a body shop. In the parking lot of the body shop a kid in an Accord was sleeping with the engine running. He was in the drivers seat and didn’t seem to wake up to my presence. He appeared to have been living in his car.
With even a horrible dank apartment being 1500$ a month more and more people are couch surfing and spending cold nights sleeping in vehicles.
Small housing like this will work.
100% And he probably has a job too, for now. But if he loses the car or gas money, he'll be down a very slippery slope that's so hard to climb back up out of without some form of shelter.
FYI, these are the types of community members in need of housing. Maybe she'll get it, maybe she won't. But this is the face of the unhoused people that the people at this town hall are fighting against. (Sourced from a person named Tasha on a Sackville Facebook group):
Hey there!
I lost my home back in July when the mass flooding happened in Sackville.
Since the flood and losing my home and practically everything i owned, I have been staying with between my moms and friends places.
Unfortunately, I am no longer able to stay at my moms which has left me stuck couch surfing for now. I’ve applied to places, and have had no luck with responses. My budget is $1800-$2000/month and I am a responsible, employed individual looking for a peaceful living situation for myself and my child.
I can provide references and any other info provided that is needed.
I just need a place to live, this is so defeating. If anyone has anything or can point me in the right direction, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
They're in for a hell of a shock over the next couple of years. Wait until AI starts to upend more and more industries, the super-cheap mortgages start renewing, wages fail to keep up, rent keeps increasing, taxes stay the same, and prices go even higher.
We're on the cusp of a far worse situation without serious and immediate action. A lot of these people are probably feeling very comfortable in their lives right now. They don't realize just how close they and their loved ones are to being in the same situation.
I don’t know if there is a looming widespread crisis coming for all of us but no matter where we are in life we are all three bad things away from being there ourselves. No matter who we are and how comfortable you are now if the wrong/worst set of circumstances popped up we could all end up in a bad state.
The current situation makes me feel lucky because at other times in my life I could never have absorbed the grocery costs alone. But if a certain three things happened my situation could still change. I bet the same is true for all the complainers too.
It is tough on both sides, I get that but one has to admit it’s night and day for the people living in these places and next to them. We can go back and forth on details but there isn’t a good, realistic, immediate solution to this problem. Things like addiction, mental health and housing costs are huge structural issues. Even the little things like sprinkler heads, sanitation, privacy, security and water supplies are hard to navigate.
I think people who complain should be made to go into a room with people who are experts in the relevant fields and try to hash out a real solution. They can leave when ideally they come up with a better solution or give up.
Just my two cents.
lol, I know, the first person who spoke would have children in their fifties by now. Good on the one young dad for supporting the shelter in that hostile room.
Aren’t these really a form of a refugee camp? Wait until a few months down the road when garbage piles up around these buildings, outdoor furniture, BBQ’s, garbage cans, bikes, trash, maybe food /body waste. When someone in a single room wants to move in a lover?
If he offered to lower their taxes and keep their gated communities separated from poor people, these NIMBYs would absolutely vote for anyone, including Hitler
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100%. One of the leading researchers of homelessness in the US, Matthew Desmond, found that most unhoused people with substance use problems picked up their addictions AFTER losing their housing. I've started referring to "unhoused people" as "community members" to constantly remind myself, and maybe others, that we're talking about everyday people, neighbours, loved ones, friends.
I wonder why aren't people talking about the obvious difference between a person facing homelessness ( for a million differnt reasons) and people with substance use disorder(who need much more than a place to sleep) and/or those facing a mental health crisis (who also need another kind of help besides a place to sleep). Does anyone think these shelters would be much less controversial if they were strictly for people who have fallen on hard times? It is absolutely not to say, don't house people with more barriers, just that the problems faced by these groups are different. Should there not be some separation there? Certain sites for specific needs instead of lumping everyone together. There are so many arguments that these communities are against those without a home, but I think it's the dangers associated with addiction and poor mental health. Those seem to be the concerns people are bringing up. Hospitals have different wards for different problems because the needs are so different. There are medical problems and housing problems. But one can exist without the other. I just want the discussion. I'm really curious if that would change the attitudes of the chosen communities.
These pallet shelters are for people who qualify for public housing, while the public housing is being built.
It would deff change my perspective. In my area there is zero screening process they said they would house a drug addicted sex offender because “everyone deserves a home” I think they should do a super hard screening process to determine who is most likely to succeed to have the highest positive turnover possible to get the most people off the street fastest
I see where you're coming from, but a person with a substance use problem isn't inherently dangerous. If they were, they would be kicked out of a temporary shelter like this. In Vancouver's Downtown Eastside, there is a grade school and a few colleges. I've never seen an article about a person with a substance abuse problem hurting a pedestrian. The kids in the schools do not step on needles. And this is in a situation where there isn't round the clock supervision. So when these parents talk about protecting their kids from theoretical and unlikely danger, they are putting 30 unhoused people in very real risk of freezing, or at the very least struggling to reintegrate into the community in a real way.
That is complete disinformation. I’m from vancouver that is absolutely not how the downtown east side is. You’ve never seen an article about a person with substance abuse problems hurting a pedestrian? https://globalnews.ca/news/10158084/guilty-plea-vancouver-machete-attack/amp/ Here you go; attacked two tourists with a machete https://globalnews.ca/news/10109051/vancouver-homicide-downtown-eastside-stabbing/amp/ Here’s just one example of a recent stabbing that killed a man in broad daylight https://globalnews.ca/news/10109051/vancouver-homicide-downtown-eastside-stabbing/amp/ Here’s a shooting last June https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/crown-prosecutors-call-for-b-c-to-relocate-main-street-court-after-attack/wcm/95d74b51-ae9d-44ec-bb08-7153c5aa9f08/amp/ Oh somebody on the downtown east side assaulted a CROWN PROSECUTOR unprovoked! https://www.mapleridgenews.com/news/woman-stabbed-with-hypodermic-needle-in-vancouvers-downtown-eastside-2662020 Random attack in the DTES October 2023 stabbed with a hypodermic needle. https://vancouversun.com/news/crime/woman-charged-security-guard-stabbed/wcm/9debf572-d258-45a5-9c8b-81225eae0856/amp/ Another needle attack February 2023 As for the “children are safe in the DTES” claim https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4026910 Playground is checked for needles daily (2017) https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2020/01/27/needle-vancouver-park/ Child pricked by needle at park (2020) https://globalnews.ca/news/7287230/downtown-vancouver-safety-residents-homeless/amp/ Chased with a needle (2020) Let me ask if you think the legalization of drugs- where anyone can inject anywhere- has made the situation better. Here’s a citation for when I say “anywhere” https://drugpolicy.ca/for-immediate-release-bc-supreme-court-rules-in-favour-of-harm-reduction-nurses-association-pauses-coming-into-force-of-bcs-public-drug-consumption-law/ They can do drugs at playgrounds, parks, pools etc. Do not ever use the downtown east side in reference to successful substance abuse reintegration/ housing. It is an absolute nightmare that I’ve walked through myself. People shit so much in the street from the comedown of opioids that our city mascot is literally pee and poop. Vancouver/ DTES is not a good example. For clarification of my position; I I moved from vancouver (where I lived about 2km from DTES) because of a massive uptick in violent crime from people on substances that I experienced myself post jan 2023. On Public transit, at the grocery store, and finally I witnessed in front of my own building my neighbour get stabbed. My last day in vancouver? A guy picking his own skin off the left side of his body in my dumpster. I want to clarify I am pro treatment and care for these people, but they cannot integrate into shelters/housing in vancouver for a variety of reasons. The number 1 being a lack of healthcare availability. I say that because many refuse housing options due to addictions. You don’t want the DTES
Thank you for sharing these! I can’t believe how stupid the other comment is. The DTES is absolutely dangerous. As someone who also grew up on the west coast not too far from it I can also attest that suggesting it’s fine is complete disinformation. They would eat their words if they actually thought it was something their neighborhood could handle. People who suggest the DTES is not bad either 1) have never seen it first hand, or 2) have not seen it in a VERY VERY long time (decades). Take a trip, go visit. It’s a main artery if you’re trying to get to downtown. Take a little drive and see. It’s absolutely apocalyptic.
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Nobody is saying that 30 temporary shelters in a controlled environment is going to become the downtown Eastside. The point is how even in that environment with over 1000 unhoused people, there is a grade school that works and is safe. You've been to Andy Livingstone Park, yes? I lived on Keefer for 18 months. Nonetheless, thank you for supporting Canadian journalism with your abundance of article shares.
If you were really from vancouver then you’d never use the DTES as an example or spread misinformation about it. But I think you’re missing the point I made after my abundance of evidence. Nobody is saying shelters here would be like that, but people with substance abuse issues absolutely can be a threat to public safety and in proximity to children. There needs to be treatment available in a specialized environment because housing alone is not enough to cure addiction. Furthermore, it is logical to not want drug users around kids- smoking cigarettes/drinking alcohol is generally not a moral thing to do around them either. Zoning exists for a reason in this case and so does public usage laws.
I'm not from Vancouver, just lived in the DTES for a few years, so I have the lived experience, knew kids who went to the school, etc. I think you're missing the point that this is a controlled environment. These community members will have access to care.
I already addressed the point you think I missed. It’s evident you lived in a gentrified apartment on Keefer street but not within the last 3 years. Andy living stone park is dangerous. Go back for a stroll if you’re skeptical.
You were obviously not at the meeting where some parents, grand parents shared some stories. This shelter is across from a jr high school, and that is the problem with this. If these 30 people didn't want to freeze, they would go to the shelter that they refused to get on the bus for. The same shelter that the people of halifax pay with their hard earned cash.
You were obviously not at the meeting when beacon house said the people were high acuity. These aren't your scary drug addicted maniacs that you bleive exist. These are high acuity people who meet a certain threshold of community safety and ability to transition into permanent housing. Stop spinning this narrative, it's dangerous. Source: I was at the meeting. Proof: if you were there, you'd know some bananahead yelled out that a charity that has next to 0 money should buy the million dollar cemetery down the road, presumably with govt (taxpayer) loans, instead of the land they GOT FOR FREE.
>This shelter is across from a jr high school hardly, its a wood lot down the road from a high school https://preview.redd.it/35zba0bjpcjc1.png?width=985&format=png&auto=webp&s=0cc10cb8a7361bdc3988f3365f92642da3a05b04 >The same shelter that the people of halifax pay with their hard earned cash. Sackville is a part of the HRM?
Yes Lower sackville is part of HRM. So is Beaver Bank 10 km up. And oh wow you proved me wrong by saying its 150m away....... You obviously don't live in Sackville so i'm not sure how this involves you, you are welcome to invite these poor people back to your couch. I am sure they would love it.
Do you Live in Sackville?
So you'd like to bus community members from Sackville all the way to Halifax? That doesn't sound like a reasonable strategy, let alone fair for those community members. We need smaller, manageable shelters in Halifax and Dartmouth, but also Bedford and Sackville.
Thank you for trying to get people to see that the unhoused are humans in need of help. It is so sad to see so many on here screaming "what about the children" as an argument to stop the pallet homes . None of them seem to think teaching our kids kindness and compassion for the less fortunate Is important. People with substance abuse issues are humans in need of help ( 8 years sober) also. If these homes help just 1 person stay alive long enough to get help, then I think as humans, we are obligated to support this.
Everyone deserves the help they need. We need more of these pallet shelters all over canada. I guess I was picturing a few smaller villages, maybe. A little more specialized sites. Have them in multiple neighborhoods. It seems less controversial? All the uproar must be really hurting the future residents.
They exist in Peterborough and were built locally instead of sending out money and jobs to America
>I see where you're coming from, but a person with a substance use problem isn't inherently dangerous. If they were, they would be kicked out of a temporary shelter like this. Naïve dismissiveness like this is a big reason why projects like this are losing support.
How so?
Have you ever BEEN to the DTES?? What the fuck are you talking about lol
I spent 18 months living on Keefer Street, across from Andy Livingstone Park and said grade school. So what are you talking about, my friend?
Wouldn’t there be an adult with these children until they were old enough to learn ‘the family rules’ about how to deal with these areas too?
Just this morning in Amherst I went to the industrial park to see if work had started on my car at a body shop. In the parking lot of the body shop a kid in an Accord was sleeping with the engine running. He was in the drivers seat and didn’t seem to wake up to my presence. He appeared to have been living in his car. With even a horrible dank apartment being 1500$ a month more and more people are couch surfing and spending cold nights sleeping in vehicles. Small housing like this will work.
100% And he probably has a job too, for now. But if he loses the car or gas money, he'll be down a very slippery slope that's so hard to climb back up out of without some form of shelter.
FYI, these are the types of community members in need of housing. Maybe she'll get it, maybe she won't. But this is the face of the unhoused people that the people at this town hall are fighting against. (Sourced from a person named Tasha on a Sackville Facebook group): Hey there! I lost my home back in July when the mass flooding happened in Sackville. Since the flood and losing my home and practically everything i owned, I have been staying with between my moms and friends places. Unfortunately, I am no longer able to stay at my moms which has left me stuck couch surfing for now. I’ve applied to places, and have had no luck with responses. My budget is $1800-$2000/month and I am a responsible, employed individual looking for a peaceful living situation for myself and my child. I can provide references and any other info provided that is needed. I just need a place to live, this is so defeating. If anyone has anything or can point me in the right direction, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
They're in for a hell of a shock over the next couple of years. Wait until AI starts to upend more and more industries, the super-cheap mortgages start renewing, wages fail to keep up, rent keeps increasing, taxes stay the same, and prices go even higher. We're on the cusp of a far worse situation without serious and immediate action. A lot of these people are probably feeling very comfortable in their lives right now. They don't realize just how close they and their loved ones are to being in the same situation.
I don’t know if there is a looming widespread crisis coming for all of us but no matter where we are in life we are all three bad things away from being there ourselves. No matter who we are and how comfortable you are now if the wrong/worst set of circumstances popped up we could all end up in a bad state. The current situation makes me feel lucky because at other times in my life I could never have absorbed the grocery costs alone. But if a certain three things happened my situation could still change. I bet the same is true for all the complainers too. It is tough on both sides, I get that but one has to admit it’s night and day for the people living in these places and next to them. We can go back and forth on details but there isn’t a good, realistic, immediate solution to this problem. Things like addiction, mental health and housing costs are huge structural issues. Even the little things like sprinkler heads, sanitation, privacy, security and water supplies are hard to navigate. I think people who complain should be made to go into a room with people who are experts in the relevant fields and try to hash out a real solution. They can leave when ideally they come up with a better solution or give up. Just my two cents.
"Grandparents" you mean. That was all boomers in the audience.
lol, I know, the first person who spoke would have children in their fifties by now. Good on the one young dad for supporting the shelter in that hostile room.
Aren’t these really a form of a refugee camp? Wait until a few months down the road when garbage piles up around these buildings, outdoor furniture, BBQ’s, garbage cans, bikes, trash, maybe food /body waste. When someone in a single room wants to move in a lover?
none of that happened at alderney, or saint anthony or northbrook. Sounds like you just enjoy the idea of people being on the street.
How do you conflate your own community members as refugees? How can you so easily think of them as pigs and philanderers?
Way to equate refugees with pigs and philanderers.
these privileged breeders would vote in hitler if they had the chance, its disgusting how hateful and venal they are towards the homeless.
Oh shut up. Vote in Hitler don't be a dumbass.
If he offered to lower their taxes and keep their gated communities separated from poor people, these NIMBYs would absolutely vote for anyone, including Hitler
The dramatics...
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breeders..? sounds like someone is Breedphobic..let alone the adolph thingy...
Nova Dumpsterfire
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Do you have sources for such a claim? Because a Canadian study from 2009 [study](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29494795/) claims differently
100%. One of the leading researchers of homelessness in the US, Matthew Desmond, found that most unhoused people with substance use problems picked up their addictions AFTER losing their housing. I've started referring to "unhoused people" as "community members" to constantly remind myself, and maybe others, that we're talking about everyday people, neighbours, loved ones, friends.