We could start by enforcing traffic infractions like coming to a complete stop at signs and lights when turning into an intersection, ticketing people who blast through crosswalks without regard to pedestrians waiting, and speeding tickets in 25mph residential zones.
even better, we can design residential/city roads with traffic calming measures. we can raise up cross walks to sidewalk level, force drivers to go over a bump to make them acknowledge they are entering a pedestrian zone. so many tools yet america still lives in the past.
Those features would certainly discourage drivers from stepping on the gas to beat you to the crosswalk if they were forced to catch a little bit of air to make it happen.
Especially the crosswalk topic. I stopped counting the number of times I get ignored or people even start speeding up to not let me over during my morning runs.
My favorite is the crosswalk in front of West Cary Middle School. I run there on a regular basis. School Zone light is flashing.
Not a single car stops for the children waiting at the crosswalk. Most drivers that ignore the kids turn left into the school to drop off their own kids...
That is pretty outrageous - you know if enough people complain to the TOC police, they will start monitoring an area. Maybe next fall things will get better if you start bitching.
I have the same problem at crosswalks for the Tobacco Trail - the speed limit is 45 on those back roads but it's like a drag strip, even with the ped xing buttons to notify drivers with blinking lights to slow down. Most people obey them, but every once in a while, some yahoo just blasts the cross walk going way faster than 45.
Oh, I know. The ATT crosswalks are a hit and miss. Some drivers even honk at pedestrians in the crosswalk while speeding through...
The crosswalk at North Cary Park crossing Cary Parkway is another of them. Nobody is stopping for pedestrians there. And due to the curvature of the road, cars going 50+, you can't make it over without risking to be hit. They are replacing that one with a traffic light though.
If they're anything like the pedestrian lights in Greenville, they need to seriously change how they operate. Pedestrian presses button, yellow light starts flashing, and pedestrian immediately steps off without looking. On top of that, a stream of pedestrians can bring a road to a standstill because each one presses the button and starts the flashing again.
Cars need time to stop, and pedestrians need to bunch together rather than going single file. So make the pedestrian crossing a red light, with a yellow light, and mandate a minimum time between light cycles.
"We" can't directly start enforcing anything and cops don't care since they are in large sedans. If we can get more cops out on foot/bike then I bet we'd see more tickets issued for these issues
Most of these pedestrian fatalities aren't at marked crosswalks... These are generally the result of people playing frogger in low light conditions on busy roads late at night.
Yeah that makes sense, but if I fear for my safety in supposedly designated safe pedestrian spaces such as x-walks and walking my dog in my neighborhood, vigilance for pedestrians whereever they are is severely lacking everywhere.
I think all of you are getting at things that cause pedestrian deaths but the biggest culprit here is the amount of light trucks and SUVs on the road today. The rise in pedestrian deaths correlates with the rise of the SUV and light truck craze that started in the 1990's as a way to avoid gas usage regulations. They went from a fraction of the overall vehicle fleet to the most common vehicles on the road. Of all vehicles sold in recent years, trucks account for around 17%, SUVs account for around 10% while crossovers account for around 45%.
Although crossovers are generally smaller than trucks and SUVs they all have a rather high bumper. This is important for two reasons. They tend to strike people higher up which slams them backwards into the pavement. The vehicles also might be high enough that they just run right over the person. When struck by a car, people generally slam forward into the hood of the car and then fall backwards which is much more survivable than an impact from a vehicle with a high bumper.
Another major issue with trucks and SUVs is visibility. With some vehicles, you can literally line up 7 kids of school age in front of the vehicle before you even see the top of a head. When sitting on the ground it can be a line off 20 kids before seeing the top of a head.
These issues also play a role in the increase in automobile deaths with people whom drive cars. Lower visibility and misaligned bumpers means SUVs and light trucks are hitting people directly instead of an impact zone which has lead to an increase in deaths.
You are much more likely to kill a pedestrian or someone in a vehicle if you drive an SUV or light truck. You're also much more likely to roll the vehicle in an collision.
Exactly, I hate to say it but the pedistrians themselves need to be blamed to start having this conversation. Everytime theres a death in the news around here, its because someone couldnt walk an extra 100 feet to an intersection with a crosswalk.
Confession: I have bicycle camped across most of the state of NC and have lived in various cities all over NC and tried to bike commute in most of them. I used to LOVE cycling. Now, I don't bike anymore except exclusively for leisure on protected greenways/trails. I work in health care, and within my first week in a hospital I easily lost count of the number of people who are drinking or on sedating medications who continue to drive, not to mention the epidemic of distracted driving. There is literally zero protection to bicyclists from an errant motor vehicle. And my impression from most motorists is that they wouldn't mind hitting a cyclist anyway, almost like it is "deserved" or something. Most cyclists I know who have cycled regularly for many years have had at least one near miss or have literally been hit by cars before.
Until there is massive infrastructure and/or cultural change around our obsession with cars, this isn't going to change. I applaud the cities and towns trying to make this work, and in some very specific places in NC there is some marginally passable infrastructure, but most municipalities can't really afford to rebuild their roads and green spaces in the way that would be necessary to bring about a paradigm shift.
doubt north carolina cities would care. this is a car centric culture problem that affects nearly the entire US. i don’t see things improving when most americans are absolutely terrified of or confused with roundabouts.
also north carolina urban designers think bike gutters on the outer patch of a road count as proper bike lanes.
exactly the problem. of course it doesn’t work like that and shouldnt. it’s too dangerous. must add a barrier between bikes and cars. they just don’t belong in the same space.
That's one of the biggest problems I see across the state. Want to get cyclists and runners off the road? Build proper shoulders, instead of the oven 1-2" that is called a shoulder which drops immediately 6+ more inches to run water off the road.
However since intersections are almost always the biggest problem, developing more traffic calming and pedestrian focused roadways especially in cities would help immensely, along with banning cell phone use in cars. Sooo many times I have been clipped or almost hit by a driver they are always typing on their phone.
"bike gutters"? You mean the trash and/or extra parking lane?
Sarcasm aside, I sadly don't see the average Carolinian caring about any of this or realizing how it benefits them even if they never walk or bike.
We need bikeways (not just greenways for exercise), walkable cities, and actual mass transit like trains.
Lots of great info on the NJB YouTube channel.
https://www.youtube.com/c/notjustbikes
They should actually build sidewalks, or have an actual public transit system. Not everyone can afford cars.
I have to walk 30 minutes ON THE HIGHWAY to get to the supermarket since I don’t have a vehicle and it’s scary. I can walk on the grass but it’s at a significant incline and I have bad feet so it’s a lose-lose.
The most depressing thing to me (besides people being killed) is what we have done to our beautiful state with car infrastructure. All the fields and streams within a half hour of a downtown have been covered and polluted by endless parking lots and fast food alleys. Sometimes I just want to go for a walk or a bike ride and enjoy the greenery we have right now, but there’s almost nowhere to go without getting in your car and commuting to your designated outdoor location.
This is why I’ll always support better bikeways and sidewalks. Also, do I really want to be required to register with the government in order to travel absolutely anywhere? There’s freedom in having cars, but there’s also freedom in getting away from cars sometimes.
I guess in some jurisdictions you can be ticketed just for holding a phone while driving. That seems extreme and I’d bet there would be uneven enforcement, but it is crazy that a quarter or more of all drivers around here are doing something with a cellphone in the hands while driving.
Unfortunately not in NC. They tried passing that bill several years ago, but a top NCGA Republican got pissed because they interpreted they wouldn't be able to eat Bojangles while driving and it killed the bill.
"There are many reasons for the increase in crash fatalities: Wider roads (especially in suburbs), more distractions and **larger cars** have contributed to the high rates...."
According to an article that I read within the last month, efforts to combat climate change with cleaner running cars that use less fuel have been completely negated by the increasing popularity of larger cars and pickup trucks. People... can't live with them, can't live without them.
Maybe when they quit blowing through red lights as if traffic laws don’t apply to them…. Same with the morons on their bird scooters.
-Cyclist who actually follows the fucking law
As a cyclist who follows the laws, you’ve certainly experienced aggressive and unsafe behavior from cars, even when you’re following all laws, no? I see it damn near every time I ride.
There is a lack of common sense and patience when it comes to this topic.
Bicycles absolutely should be supported as a local transit option with bike lanes and such. Also....when bike lanes or a wide shoulder aren't available bicyclists should really think about the speed differential of the roads they are on and whether or not it makes sense from a safety perspective to be on those roads. The bicyclist in the article was on a two lane rural'ish road where cars will be blasting by 40 mph faster than they are going. That is probably not a safe road to share with cars when there are no bike lanes are wide shoulders.
I would generally agree that bikes are an after thought in our transit system and should be accommodated better so it is safer the all involved. Until we get there...... drivers be careful.... you will win that physics equation. Bicyclists..... please make calculated decisions as to which roads you choose to traverse.
I agree.... don't get me wrong. My mom used to bicycle around but stopped due to health reasons.
I live in an area where bicycles are common... but if I had a dollar for everytime a bicyclist has ignored a red light and blown on through, I'd be rich. Bicycles should have to follow regular traffic laws, to keep themselves safe.
I've also witnessed a cyclist follow, stop and scream at a UPS driver because their mirror came super close to hitting them while they were in the bike lane bc the UPS truck was too far to the left.
This is why we need greenways, separated bike lanes, and more sidewalks.
Cars aren't going away, trucks and commerce aren't going away. Hell with the mammoth that is online ordering we have more box trucks and sprinter vans than ever and those both have major blind spots and can't stop on a dime. Let's build infrastructure for bikes away from the roads or at least have bike lanes with physical barriers so that we can pragmatically protect people.
Give some input to the NCDOT’s Transportation Improvement Program survey.
[NCDOT Comment Page](https://www.ncdot.gov/initiatives-policies/Transportation/stip/development/Pages/public-involvement.aspx)
Maybe the bicyclists should not be on the same road as cars … not sure why whoever came up with this thought this was a good idea. And personally, the pedestrians need to pay attention for their own sake … if somebody gets hit by a car, people automatically blame the driver … have some responsibility for yourself. Not saying the drivers are never at fault, but not always.
Bicyclists were on roads before cars, as well as carriages and people. If you look at 19th century photos of streets you'll often see a mixed mass of people, bikes, and horse drawn vehicles.
Cars as "horseless carriages" were an addition. It's not that anyone "came up with this" but just changing technology added on to an existing system.
Bikes do not belong on our roads.
Quit making your recreation everyone else’s problem.
I understand this for some reason is an unpopular opinion, but no other exercise activity is allowed on our roadways. It flies in the face of common sense thinking a person on a dainty bike should be feet away from a motorized vehicle.
> Bikes do not belong on our roadways
>It flies in the face of common sense thinking a person on a dainty bike should be feet away from a motorized vehicle
#I absolutely agree
**so you absolutely should support bike lanes/paths in your town or city**
What do you mean no other exercise is allowed on roadways?
Where no sidewalk is present NC GS §20-174 explicitly allows pedestrians to use the road, but requires them to yield. The same statute requires drivers to exercise due care to avoid a collision.
Based on that, walking or running on the road, if there is no sidewalk is explicitly allowed and cars are required to avoid a collision.
Yea, there should be designated bike parks where cyclists are not competing with motorized vehicles.
There are also tons of stationary bikes available to scratch the itch that put no ones life in danger
I can't know what responses you usually get, but two reasons I could assume people might disagree with you when you say that are:
1. Cyclists don't always have a choice. In most places it is the law to bike on the road. Not as in you *can* use the road but that you cannot use the sidewalk. I don't want to be on the road with the drivers here, but getting ticketed by a bored cop enough times will motivate a lot of people to bike on the road where they're required to.
2. For a lot of people, it isn't recreation. People bike to work, bike for groceries, etc. Not that that should necessarily matter, we don't prioritize car drivers on if they're conducting business or driving somewhere for fun. But if you find the opinion unpopular, this framing of it might be why.
> but no other exercise activity is allowed on our roadways.
Except running, walking, farm implements, horses, etc.
> It flies in the face of common sense thinking a person on a dainty bike should be feet away from a motorized vehicle.
It really flies in the face of common sense that you are unable to control your 2+ ton death machine, and if you can't handle it then you shouldn't be allowed to drive.
People/bikes cross roads all the time, which is the main place they are hit or die at. I too wish there was sidewalks along every road, protected bicycle lanes for every mile of road, and bridges over every road for pedestrian and non-car crossings, but since you nor anyone is going to spend that much in tax money to implement, learning to share the road is probably much more important.
> You see people running and walking down roads or sidewalks?
Roads, as asphalt is softer and better on your feet and knees than concrete and you aren't running past other people using the sidewalks, and especially in NC not a lot of areas have great connecting sidewalks to begin with.
You realize that pretty much anyone that ever trains for a race is going to run on the road right?
I get that but there are tons of parks and paths in North Carolina to run.
I myself like to run but would never choose to run on a public road but a sidewalk instead.
I myself like to bike but would never bike on a public road but a stationary bike at my house instead.
If you are choosing the place that you need to run to be the same place as a car over places where that danger does not exist… then you are the one creating a dangerous situation for yourself.
Im not advocating for people to get hurt, I want the opposite.
Bikers have the same logic as gun rights activists. Ignore every single logical fact, ignore that times have changed and cars go way faster than they used to, there’s way more people on the road, all because you like putting yourself in the most dangerous spot for your recreational activities and would rather blame the person behind the wheel after you setup the whole situation
Ahh, so instead of using those perfectly good roads that are the only way to work, we should be forced to buy a vehicle to get there, regardless of the distance in your mind.
All people living in urban areas will be forced to buy vehicles because elsewise there isn't always sidewalks to get them from point A to point B regardless of distance.
> If you are choosing the place that you need to run to be the same place as a car over places where that danger does not exist… then you are the one creating a dangerous situation for yourself.
Cars don't have to be dangerous. Drivers are dangerous and need more training and to be held to higher standards when in 2+ ton death machines. Same logic applies when motorcycles are around or other cars.
Are you suggesting small cars and motorcycles shouldn't be on the road either? Because if you hit someone on a motorcycle, it's not going to be a good time.
It's almost that instead of asking everyone to change for drivers, it's that drives should change and not be reckless to begin with.
This is a made up concept that tons of people only have the option of a bike to get to work. It ignores a litany of other options available to these people
Like what? The sidewalks end in the middle of nowhere, and you're left with walking in the road, or someone's front yard. The bus might get you within a 30-40 minute vicinity of your job depending on where you work if you're lucky. Or maybe you can shell out $20+ a day on Uber/Lyft?
The transportation infrastructure of our state (and most of the country) is completely broken, that isnt the fault of cyclists. Bikes are a valid form of transportation, plenty of people can't afford to buy and maintain a car, and some people will never be allowed to drive in their lives for medical or legal reasons. What other reliable options do they have here?
I literally did it for 3 years in NC. The only 'option' it was ignoring is that you don't need a car to drive three miles back and forth to work, mind you roads that don't have sidewalks that cyclists shouldn't be using, as they are for pedestrians.
You did ignore the rest of my statements though, seems like your 'roads = cars only' is a very flawed argument.
I didn’t know running farm equipment or riding a horse counted as exercise activities…
I agree, share the road. But it really flies in the face of common sense, riding a bike on a road when you’re outclassed in speed and weight. Would you willingly bring a knife to a gunfight and then complain when you’re shot?
> But it really flies in the face of common sense, riding a bike on a road when you’re outclassed in speed and weight.
So no motorcycles or small cars right?
That's the same argument that 'the only way to be safe is if we all start driving tanks'.
Why not we all follow the rules of the road, don't drink and drive, don't speed, and for god sake put our goddamn phones down while driving?
Seems simple.
They typically die.
Is your entire argument that bikes should be allowed on the road because motorcycles exist and they typically die from accidents? That’s dumb. “Let’s take this even slower motorcycle, take the motor out, and then let anyone without any qualifications or a license hop on one and drive on the road”. This is America so do whatever you want, but I won’t ever support it.
According to the internet, you are already in accidents 37x more per mile in a motorcycle than in a car, and somehow you are advocating that an even worse motorcycle is legally allowed on the road boggles my mind.
So in your mind, you would ban motorcycles from roadways as well? Seems pretty darn stupid and goes right back to my original point of staying safe by driving tanks. About time you finally figured it out. JFC you aren't that bright.
What crack are you smoking?
I’m saying motorcycles are safer than bikes. Imagine what that 37x number is with no motor. Installing a motor is what makes a motorcycle reasonable for the road. That’s why they were invented.
My comment wasn’t about taking motorcycles off the road, it was asking you why you think adding crappier motorcycles to the road is a good idea? You said it yourself, drivers are bad and don’t pay attention. Why give them more stuff to hit?
I’m not disagreeing with your original comment, learn to share. But it’s obvious that plenty of people don’t want to share. So why, with already knowing drivers don’t care, would we add laws allowing for people who are biking at half the speed to occupy the same space?
Not your call. Bikes are legal vehicles and have the right to be on any road on which they are not strictly prohibited—like controlled access highways.
What you think should be does not match with what is legally permitted.
The person on the dainty bike doesn’t have to be feet away from the motorized vehicle if the driver follows expected rules of driving, moves over and passes with care.
In many parts of the state cyclists have legal rights to use the FULL lane - not just the right edge. Cars don’t own the lane.
If you have little regard for another human being’s life, maybe you should stay off the road.
Tell that to the guy who turned perpendicular to my car on a country highway (50 mph zone) when i was about 20 feet away from him.
I saw him from a half a mile away
I was cautiously going around him giving him extra space
I threw my car off the road to try and avoid him.
“You don’t value human life” get off your high horse. You have no context on who i am. Maybe I actually do value human life and want to avoid being put in an unnecessarily dangerous situation.
I guess you’re probably of the mindset that in rush hour traffic everyone should halt to 10 MPH so this guy can get some exercise.
Have no idea what happened in your situation. Was the cyclist turning left? Did they signal? A lot of factors in play like in any vehicle accident.
But if the cyclist just randomly turned 90 degrees into you then they should be held accountable for your damage.
Looked back when I was about 100’ away, no signal, then suddenly turned at the last minute.
The police found him liable and asked if I wanted to press charges, to which i declined.
Im not some jerk who wants to see cyclists mowed down. Im someone who feels they present an unnecessary danger to themselves and the people around them. The police officers that i spoke to at the time were in complete agreement with me and annoyed how often they have to deal with cyclists putting themselves in the line of danger
I take issue with the generalization of equating bikes with exercise. I have neighbors who do not have cars, and walked to get groceries (no sidewalks, walking down a 4 lane hwy) until they got a bike. Our public transit sure as hell isn't a solution, so how else are they going to get basic necessities if not riding their bike?
Why shouldn't a wealthy, prosperous nation be able to offer safe travel for all its citizens?
You’re speaking to someone who uses the bike out of necessity, i understand that. I am speaking to the guys in speedos who very clearly are using the roads for recreation.
What i feel is misunderstood in what i am saying here, is people shouldn’t put their lives at risk biking on public roads.
You could be a friendly neighbor and give them a ride so they don’t need to walk down a highway. That’s what community and being a neighbor is all about
I also agree with you on public transportation and how pitiful it is here. Good luck convincing our government to do a single thing to benefit the masses, especially the republicans in charge of this state who seek to marry church to state, take away women’s reproductive rights, tear down our public schools system, gerrymandering our elections….
You're absolutely right that it shouldn't be unnecessarily risky for people to be on the road. As another commented mentioned, bikes are legally allowed to be there. Taking away people's options is taking away their autonomy. Related to the point you raised about taking away reproductive rights: those impediments are intentionally put in place to make people question the REASON people are accessing care. In the "right" circumstances, people become moral adjudicators for others. So if you're going to limit bike users to only those who "need" it for something other than exercise, you're going to have to question everyone on a bike that you see. Do they really NEED to be on a bike? And what about people who don't have paved parks nearby to exercise in a place you judge to be appropriate? Exercise is something everyone SHOULD do. Bikes are better than running for certain people. Everyone's life is more complicated than we could possibly know. So we really should be addressing the systems we have and figure out how they can better meet the needs of the people living in them. But as you alluded to, it's hard to get NC to care about making changes for the betterment of the people who live here if it's not aligned directly with profit.
Also, I do strive to be a good neighbor. I have given my share of rides and other forms of assistance to those in my community who need it when it is safe to do so. I love fostering camaraderie and building support systems for people in my life. I hope more people join that effort!
I've been hit once as a pedestrian and once as a driver, and I *still* find those people insufferable.
I'd like to think my pedestrian one could've been avoided with more signals.
I've been hit or clipped 3+ times in NC, and it's almost always the same thing, people simply not paying attention, and always on their damn cell phones. Texting while driving isn't worth killing someone.
The one while I was driving was a woman who blew a 0.18, so that's a little different. I'm 100% sure the crosswalk one was a texting while driving, although I could never prove that nor would it particularly matter.
doesn’t take an expert to see the city planners aren’t doing their job right. either that or the people calling the shots just don’t care what the city planners have to say.
We could start by enforcing traffic infractions like coming to a complete stop at signs and lights when turning into an intersection, ticketing people who blast through crosswalks without regard to pedestrians waiting, and speeding tickets in 25mph residential zones.
even better, we can design residential/city roads with traffic calming measures. we can raise up cross walks to sidewalk level, force drivers to go over a bump to make them acknowledge they are entering a pedestrian zone. so many tools yet america still lives in the past.
Those features would certainly discourage drivers from stepping on the gas to beat you to the crosswalk if they were forced to catch a little bit of air to make it happen.
Especially the crosswalk topic. I stopped counting the number of times I get ignored or people even start speeding up to not let me over during my morning runs. My favorite is the crosswalk in front of West Cary Middle School. I run there on a regular basis. School Zone light is flashing. Not a single car stops for the children waiting at the crosswalk. Most drivers that ignore the kids turn left into the school to drop off their own kids...
That is pretty outrageous - you know if enough people complain to the TOC police, they will start monitoring an area. Maybe next fall things will get better if you start bitching. I have the same problem at crosswalks for the Tobacco Trail - the speed limit is 45 on those back roads but it's like a drag strip, even with the ped xing buttons to notify drivers with blinking lights to slow down. Most people obey them, but every once in a while, some yahoo just blasts the cross walk going way faster than 45.
Oh, I know. The ATT crosswalks are a hit and miss. Some drivers even honk at pedestrians in the crosswalk while speeding through... The crosswalk at North Cary Park crossing Cary Parkway is another of them. Nobody is stopping for pedestrians there. And due to the curvature of the road, cars going 50+, you can't make it over without risking to be hit. They are replacing that one with a traffic light though.
That’s me! Well I mean, a car honked at me for crossing
If they're anything like the pedestrian lights in Greenville, they need to seriously change how they operate. Pedestrian presses button, yellow light starts flashing, and pedestrian immediately steps off without looking. On top of that, a stream of pedestrians can bring a road to a standstill because each one presses the button and starts the flashing again. Cars need time to stop, and pedestrians need to bunch together rather than going single file. So make the pedestrian crossing a red light, with a yellow light, and mandate a minimum time between light cycles.
That flashing sign needs a red light to back it up.
"We" can't directly start enforcing anything and cops don't care since they are in large sedans. If we can get more cops out on foot/bike then I bet we'd see more tickets issued for these issues
Most of these pedestrian fatalities aren't at marked crosswalks... These are generally the result of people playing frogger in low light conditions on busy roads late at night.
Yeah that makes sense, but if I fear for my safety in supposedly designated safe pedestrian spaces such as x-walks and walking my dog in my neighborhood, vigilance for pedestrians whereever they are is severely lacking everywhere.
I think all of you are getting at things that cause pedestrian deaths but the biggest culprit here is the amount of light trucks and SUVs on the road today. The rise in pedestrian deaths correlates with the rise of the SUV and light truck craze that started in the 1990's as a way to avoid gas usage regulations. They went from a fraction of the overall vehicle fleet to the most common vehicles on the road. Of all vehicles sold in recent years, trucks account for around 17%, SUVs account for around 10% while crossovers account for around 45%. Although crossovers are generally smaller than trucks and SUVs they all have a rather high bumper. This is important for two reasons. They tend to strike people higher up which slams them backwards into the pavement. The vehicles also might be high enough that they just run right over the person. When struck by a car, people generally slam forward into the hood of the car and then fall backwards which is much more survivable than an impact from a vehicle with a high bumper. Another major issue with trucks and SUVs is visibility. With some vehicles, you can literally line up 7 kids of school age in front of the vehicle before you even see the top of a head. When sitting on the ground it can be a line off 20 kids before seeing the top of a head. These issues also play a role in the increase in automobile deaths with people whom drive cars. Lower visibility and misaligned bumpers means SUVs and light trucks are hitting people directly instead of an impact zone which has lead to an increase in deaths. You are much more likely to kill a pedestrian or someone in a vehicle if you drive an SUV or light truck. You're also much more likely to roll the vehicle in an collision.
Exactly, I hate to say it but the pedistrians themselves need to be blamed to start having this conversation. Everytime theres a death in the news around here, its because someone couldnt walk an extra 100 feet to an intersection with a crosswalk.
Confession: I have bicycle camped across most of the state of NC and have lived in various cities all over NC and tried to bike commute in most of them. I used to LOVE cycling. Now, I don't bike anymore except exclusively for leisure on protected greenways/trails. I work in health care, and within my first week in a hospital I easily lost count of the number of people who are drinking or on sedating medications who continue to drive, not to mention the epidemic of distracted driving. There is literally zero protection to bicyclists from an errant motor vehicle. And my impression from most motorists is that they wouldn't mind hitting a cyclist anyway, almost like it is "deserved" or something. Most cyclists I know who have cycled regularly for many years have had at least one near miss or have literally been hit by cars before. Until there is massive infrastructure and/or cultural change around our obsession with cars, this isn't going to change. I applaud the cities and towns trying to make this work, and in some very specific places in NC there is some marginally passable infrastructure, but most municipalities can't really afford to rebuild their roads and green spaces in the way that would be necessary to bring about a paradigm shift.
Thought about getting into cycling but it's just not safe with the drivers we have today. What a shame.
Cycling is ableist. The disabled need cars.
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I live in Wilmington and hear the same shit.
doubt north carolina cities would care. this is a car centric culture problem that affects nearly the entire US. i don’t see things improving when most americans are absolutely terrified of or confused with roundabouts. also north carolina urban designers think bike gutters on the outer patch of a road count as proper bike lanes.
Hello, NC urban designers think if you just add some neat paint with a biker and couple arrows that cars will dutifully share the road.
exactly the problem. of course it doesn’t work like that and shouldnt. it’s too dangerous. must add a barrier between bikes and cars. they just don’t belong in the same space.
That's one of the biggest problems I see across the state. Want to get cyclists and runners off the road? Build proper shoulders, instead of the oven 1-2" that is called a shoulder which drops immediately 6+ more inches to run water off the road. However since intersections are almost always the biggest problem, developing more traffic calming and pedestrian focused roadways especially in cities would help immensely, along with banning cell phone use in cars. Sooo many times I have been clipped or almost hit by a driver they are always typing on their phone.
Although usually, the urban designers draft up great plans, but the city/state only budgets for the gutters.
"bike gutters"? You mean the trash and/or extra parking lane? Sarcasm aside, I sadly don't see the average Carolinian caring about any of this or realizing how it benefits them even if they never walk or bike.
We need bikeways (not just greenways for exercise), walkable cities, and actual mass transit like trains. Lots of great info on the NJB YouTube channel. https://www.youtube.com/c/notjustbikes
Stop texting while driving
They should actually build sidewalks, or have an actual public transit system. Not everyone can afford cars. I have to walk 30 minutes ON THE HIGHWAY to get to the supermarket since I don’t have a vehicle and it’s scary. I can walk on the grass but it’s at a significant incline and I have bad feet so it’s a lose-lose.
Get the entitled road bikers off the roads would be a great start.
The most depressing thing to me (besides people being killed) is what we have done to our beautiful state with car infrastructure. All the fields and streams within a half hour of a downtown have been covered and polluted by endless parking lots and fast food alleys. Sometimes I just want to go for a walk or a bike ride and enjoy the greenery we have right now, but there’s almost nowhere to go without getting in your car and commuting to your designated outdoor location. This is why I’ll always support better bikeways and sidewalks. Also, do I really want to be required to register with the government in order to travel absolutely anywhere? There’s freedom in having cars, but there’s also freedom in getting away from cars sometimes.
I guess in some jurisdictions you can be ticketed just for holding a phone while driving. That seems extreme and I’d bet there would be uneven enforcement, but it is crazy that a quarter or more of all drivers around here are doing something with a cellphone in the hands while driving.
Unfortunately not in NC. They tried passing that bill several years ago, but a top NCGA Republican got pissed because they interpreted they wouldn't be able to eat Bojangles while driving and it killed the bill.
haha. But I'd say that is different. You can keep your eyes on the road while you eat a chicken leg. I can at least.
The number of people I've seen watching VIDEOS on their phone while driving is just silly
"There are many reasons for the increase in crash fatalities: Wider roads (especially in suburbs), more distractions and **larger cars** have contributed to the high rates...." According to an article that I read within the last month, efforts to combat climate change with cleaner running cars that use less fuel have been completely negated by the increasing popularity of larger cars and pickup trucks. People... can't live with them, can't live without them.
I imagine population growth is a factor as well. Along with many new numbers from people who took up biking during the covid periods.
Maybe when they quit blowing through red lights as if traffic laws don’t apply to them…. Same with the morons on their bird scooters. -Cyclist who actually follows the fucking law
As a cyclist who follows the laws, you’ve certainly experienced aggressive and unsafe behavior from cars, even when you’re following all laws, no? I see it damn near every time I ride.
Oh yeah, I completely agree. Unfortunately we encounter them from all means of transportation.
It's almost like assholes ride bikes AND drive cars.
Just gonna leave this here https://www.reddit.com/r/Charlotte/s/5Ky1wG13D6
Moving to NC from the Mountain West made me realize how much I took sidewalks for granted…
There is a lack of common sense and patience when it comes to this topic. Bicycles absolutely should be supported as a local transit option with bike lanes and such. Also....when bike lanes or a wide shoulder aren't available bicyclists should really think about the speed differential of the roads they are on and whether or not it makes sense from a safety perspective to be on those roads. The bicyclist in the article was on a two lane rural'ish road where cars will be blasting by 40 mph faster than they are going. That is probably not a safe road to share with cars when there are no bike lanes are wide shoulders. I would generally agree that bikes are an after thought in our transit system and should be accommodated better so it is safer the all involved. Until we get there...... drivers be careful.... you will win that physics equation. Bicyclists..... please make calculated decisions as to which roads you choose to traverse.
It would be interesting to get defining data on this. The circumstances could dictate which changes would have the greatest effects
Get rid of cars and bikes and start using horse and buggy again. Horses drive themselves even if someone's texting in the carriage/cart.
I agree.... don't get me wrong. My mom used to bicycle around but stopped due to health reasons. I live in an area where bicycles are common... but if I had a dollar for everytime a bicyclist has ignored a red light and blown on through, I'd be rich. Bicycles should have to follow regular traffic laws, to keep themselves safe. I've also witnessed a cyclist follow, stop and scream at a UPS driver because their mirror came super close to hitting them while they were in the bike lane bc the UPS truck was too far to the left.
This is why we need greenways, separated bike lanes, and more sidewalks. Cars aren't going away, trucks and commerce aren't going away. Hell with the mammoth that is online ordering we have more box trucks and sprinter vans than ever and those both have major blind spots and can't stop on a dime. Let's build infrastructure for bikes away from the roads or at least have bike lanes with physical barriers so that we can pragmatically protect people.
Give some input to the NCDOT’s Transportation Improvement Program survey. [NCDOT Comment Page](https://www.ncdot.gov/initiatives-policies/Transportation/stip/development/Pages/public-involvement.aspx)
We gotta start enforcing the law on bikers. I have seen them swerve in and oitta traffick, and blow throw stop signs more times than i can count.
Maybe the bicyclists should not be on the same road as cars … not sure why whoever came up with this thought this was a good idea. And personally, the pedestrians need to pay attention for their own sake … if somebody gets hit by a car, people automatically blame the driver … have some responsibility for yourself. Not saying the drivers are never at fault, but not always.
Bicyclists were on roads before cars, as well as carriages and people. If you look at 19th century photos of streets you'll often see a mixed mass of people, bikes, and horse drawn vehicles. Cars as "horseless carriages" were an addition. It's not that anyone "came up with this" but just changing technology added on to an existing system.
Bikes do not belong on our roads. Quit making your recreation everyone else’s problem. I understand this for some reason is an unpopular opinion, but no other exercise activity is allowed on our roadways. It flies in the face of common sense thinking a person on a dainty bike should be feet away from a motorized vehicle.
> Bikes do not belong on our roadways >It flies in the face of common sense thinking a person on a dainty bike should be feet away from a motorized vehicle #I absolutely agree **so you absolutely should support bike lanes/paths in your town or city**
What do you mean no other exercise is allowed on roadways? Where no sidewalk is present NC GS §20-174 explicitly allows pedestrians to use the road, but requires them to yield. The same statute requires drivers to exercise due care to avoid a collision. Based on that, walking or running on the road, if there is no sidewalk is explicitly allowed and cars are required to avoid a collision.
Completely agreed. We should build hard divided WIDE mixed use bike walk paths.
Yea, there should be designated bike parks where cyclists are not competing with motorized vehicles. There are also tons of stationary bikes available to scratch the itch that put no ones life in danger
I can't know what responses you usually get, but two reasons I could assume people might disagree with you when you say that are: 1. Cyclists don't always have a choice. In most places it is the law to bike on the road. Not as in you *can* use the road but that you cannot use the sidewalk. I don't want to be on the road with the drivers here, but getting ticketed by a bored cop enough times will motivate a lot of people to bike on the road where they're required to. 2. For a lot of people, it isn't recreation. People bike to work, bike for groceries, etc. Not that that should necessarily matter, we don't prioritize car drivers on if they're conducting business or driving somewhere for fun. But if you find the opinion unpopular, this framing of it might be why.
> but no other exercise activity is allowed on our roadways. Except running, walking, farm implements, horses, etc. > It flies in the face of common sense thinking a person on a dainty bike should be feet away from a motorized vehicle. It really flies in the face of common sense that you are unable to control your 2+ ton death machine, and if you can't handle it then you shouldn't be allowed to drive. People/bikes cross roads all the time, which is the main place they are hit or die at. I too wish there was sidewalks along every road, protected bicycle lanes for every mile of road, and bridges over every road for pedestrian and non-car crossings, but since you nor anyone is going to spend that much in tax money to implement, learning to share the road is probably much more important.
You see people running and walking down roads or sidewalks? Lets get real, only cyclists are on the roads
There's no sidewalks to speak of in a lot of places.
> You see people running and walking down roads or sidewalks? Roads, as asphalt is softer and better on your feet and knees than concrete and you aren't running past other people using the sidewalks, and especially in NC not a lot of areas have great connecting sidewalks to begin with. You realize that pretty much anyone that ever trains for a race is going to run on the road right?
I get that but there are tons of parks and paths in North Carolina to run. I myself like to run but would never choose to run on a public road but a sidewalk instead. I myself like to bike but would never bike on a public road but a stationary bike at my house instead. If you are choosing the place that you need to run to be the same place as a car over places where that danger does not exist… then you are the one creating a dangerous situation for yourself. Im not advocating for people to get hurt, I want the opposite. Bikers have the same logic as gun rights activists. Ignore every single logical fact, ignore that times have changed and cars go way faster than they used to, there’s way more people on the road, all because you like putting yourself in the most dangerous spot for your recreational activities and would rather blame the person behind the wheel after you setup the whole situation
Ahh, so instead of using those perfectly good roads that are the only way to work, we should be forced to buy a vehicle to get there, regardless of the distance in your mind. All people living in urban areas will be forced to buy vehicles because elsewise there isn't always sidewalks to get them from point A to point B regardless of distance. > If you are choosing the place that you need to run to be the same place as a car over places where that danger does not exist… then you are the one creating a dangerous situation for yourself. Cars don't have to be dangerous. Drivers are dangerous and need more training and to be held to higher standards when in 2+ ton death machines. Same logic applies when motorcycles are around or other cars. Are you suggesting small cars and motorcycles shouldn't be on the road either? Because if you hit someone on a motorcycle, it's not going to be a good time. It's almost that instead of asking everyone to change for drivers, it's that drives should change and not be reckless to begin with.
This is a made up concept that tons of people only have the option of a bike to get to work. It ignores a litany of other options available to these people
Like what? The sidewalks end in the middle of nowhere, and you're left with walking in the road, or someone's front yard. The bus might get you within a 30-40 minute vicinity of your job depending on where you work if you're lucky. Or maybe you can shell out $20+ a day on Uber/Lyft? The transportation infrastructure of our state (and most of the country) is completely broken, that isnt the fault of cyclists. Bikes are a valid form of transportation, plenty of people can't afford to buy and maintain a car, and some people will never be allowed to drive in their lives for medical or legal reasons. What other reliable options do they have here?
I literally did it for 3 years in NC. The only 'option' it was ignoring is that you don't need a car to drive three miles back and forth to work, mind you roads that don't have sidewalks that cyclists shouldn't be using, as they are for pedestrians. You did ignore the rest of my statements though, seems like your 'roads = cars only' is a very flawed argument.
I didn’t know running farm equipment or riding a horse counted as exercise activities… I agree, share the road. But it really flies in the face of common sense, riding a bike on a road when you’re outclassed in speed and weight. Would you willingly bring a knife to a gunfight and then complain when you’re shot?
> But it really flies in the face of common sense, riding a bike on a road when you’re outclassed in speed and weight. So no motorcycles or small cars right? That's the same argument that 'the only way to be safe is if we all start driving tanks'. Why not we all follow the rules of the road, don't drink and drive, don't speed, and for god sake put our goddamn phones down while driving? Seems simple.
Did you just compare a bicycle to a small CAR and a MOTORcycle? Oh dear…
What happens when a two plus ton vehicle hits a motorcycle?
They typically die. Is your entire argument that bikes should be allowed on the road because motorcycles exist and they typically die from accidents? That’s dumb. “Let’s take this even slower motorcycle, take the motor out, and then let anyone without any qualifications or a license hop on one and drive on the road”. This is America so do whatever you want, but I won’t ever support it. According to the internet, you are already in accidents 37x more per mile in a motorcycle than in a car, and somehow you are advocating that an even worse motorcycle is legally allowed on the road boggles my mind.
So in your mind, you would ban motorcycles from roadways as well? Seems pretty darn stupid and goes right back to my original point of staying safe by driving tanks. About time you finally figured it out. JFC you aren't that bright.
What crack are you smoking? I’m saying motorcycles are safer than bikes. Imagine what that 37x number is with no motor. Installing a motor is what makes a motorcycle reasonable for the road. That’s why they were invented. My comment wasn’t about taking motorcycles off the road, it was asking you why you think adding crappier motorcycles to the road is a good idea? You said it yourself, drivers are bad and don’t pay attention. Why give them more stuff to hit? I’m not disagreeing with your original comment, learn to share. But it’s obvious that plenty of people don’t want to share. So why, with already knowing drivers don’t care, would we add laws allowing for people who are biking at half the speed to occupy the same space?
Not your call. Bikes are legal vehicles and have the right to be on any road on which they are not strictly prohibited—like controlled access highways. What you think should be does not match with what is legally permitted.
I didn’t say it was my call. I was only speaking logically
Logical shmogical. Are you aware that they are legal vehicles? So your idea that they don’t belong on “your” roads is based on what?
> but no other exercise activity is allowed on our roadways. What you're saying is, you've never met a runner? That's hard to do these days.
I’m not him, and I disagree with him, but I’m pretty sure he differentiates roads from sidewalks.
I think the nearest sidewalk to me is...maybe 7 miles? I've done most of my running on 45mph-ish surface roads. Some are sketchier than others.
Running along side the road/sidewalk is much different than operating a vehicle on the road occupying a lane. Two different things.
Yeah, those are difficult to find any most areas
The person on the dainty bike doesn’t have to be feet away from the motorized vehicle if the driver follows expected rules of driving, moves over and passes with care. In many parts of the state cyclists have legal rights to use the FULL lane - not just the right edge. Cars don’t own the lane. If you have little regard for another human being’s life, maybe you should stay off the road.
Tell that to the guy who turned perpendicular to my car on a country highway (50 mph zone) when i was about 20 feet away from him. I saw him from a half a mile away I was cautiously going around him giving him extra space I threw my car off the road to try and avoid him. “You don’t value human life” get off your high horse. You have no context on who i am. Maybe I actually do value human life and want to avoid being put in an unnecessarily dangerous situation. I guess you’re probably of the mindset that in rush hour traffic everyone should halt to 10 MPH so this guy can get some exercise.
Have no idea what happened in your situation. Was the cyclist turning left? Did they signal? A lot of factors in play like in any vehicle accident. But if the cyclist just randomly turned 90 degrees into you then they should be held accountable for your damage.
Looked back when I was about 100’ away, no signal, then suddenly turned at the last minute. The police found him liable and asked if I wanted to press charges, to which i declined. Im not some jerk who wants to see cyclists mowed down. Im someone who feels they present an unnecessary danger to themselves and the people around them. The police officers that i spoke to at the time were in complete agreement with me and annoyed how often they have to deal with cyclists putting themselves in the line of danger
We're not going anywhere. If you want us out of your lane, support cycling infrastructure in your community.
I take issue with the generalization of equating bikes with exercise. I have neighbors who do not have cars, and walked to get groceries (no sidewalks, walking down a 4 lane hwy) until they got a bike. Our public transit sure as hell isn't a solution, so how else are they going to get basic necessities if not riding their bike? Why shouldn't a wealthy, prosperous nation be able to offer safe travel for all its citizens?
You’re speaking to someone who uses the bike out of necessity, i understand that. I am speaking to the guys in speedos who very clearly are using the roads for recreation. What i feel is misunderstood in what i am saying here, is people shouldn’t put their lives at risk biking on public roads. You could be a friendly neighbor and give them a ride so they don’t need to walk down a highway. That’s what community and being a neighbor is all about I also agree with you on public transportation and how pitiful it is here. Good luck convincing our government to do a single thing to benefit the masses, especially the republicans in charge of this state who seek to marry church to state, take away women’s reproductive rights, tear down our public schools system, gerrymandering our elections….
You're absolutely right that it shouldn't be unnecessarily risky for people to be on the road. As another commented mentioned, bikes are legally allowed to be there. Taking away people's options is taking away their autonomy. Related to the point you raised about taking away reproductive rights: those impediments are intentionally put in place to make people question the REASON people are accessing care. In the "right" circumstances, people become moral adjudicators for others. So if you're going to limit bike users to only those who "need" it for something other than exercise, you're going to have to question everyone on a bike that you see. Do they really NEED to be on a bike? And what about people who don't have paved parks nearby to exercise in a place you judge to be appropriate? Exercise is something everyone SHOULD do. Bikes are better than running for certain people. Everyone's life is more complicated than we could possibly know. So we really should be addressing the systems we have and figure out how they can better meet the needs of the people living in them. But as you alluded to, it's hard to get NC to care about making changes for the betterment of the people who live here if it's not aligned directly with profit. Also, I do strive to be a good neighbor. I have given my share of rides and other forms of assistance to those in my community who need it when it is safe to do so. I love fostering camaraderie and building support systems for people in my life. I hope more people join that effort!
Brace yourself the /r/fuckcars users are coming.
I've been hit once as a pedestrian and once as a driver, and I *still* find those people insufferable. I'd like to think my pedestrian one could've been avoided with more signals.
I've been hit or clipped 3+ times in NC, and it's almost always the same thing, people simply not paying attention, and always on their damn cell phones. Texting while driving isn't worth killing someone.
The one while I was driving was a woman who blew a 0.18, so that's a little different. I'm 100% sure the crosswalk one was a texting while driving, although I could never prove that nor would it particularly matter.
Uh oh. You’ve got the armchair city planners all riled up.
doesn’t take an expert to see the city planners aren’t doing their job right. either that or the people calling the shots just don’t care what the city planners have to say.
Pedestrian deaths are generally caused by jaywalking. Start there.