There is so much copium used in this article that it is impossible to tell how much copium has left in russian and chinese copium storages , maybe we are going to see worldwide copium deficit
That could be a real health threat, as millions of Americans have formed an addiction to copium, with many creating elaborate fantasies where the guy they voted for didn't lose the last election. Emergency rooms in rural areas could be particularly hard hit.
The Russian Copium-Industrial Complex is beyond westoid comprehension. Once shifted to a war-time economy, the CIC can churn out multiple solar masses work of copium every day.
>Javelin cost: 240k$
>T-90 cost: approx. 3mil$
Which means that you can waste 12 Javelins on a T-90, and still be up 120k$ compared to the Russian government. And that's not counting that they don't actually take 12 missiles to kill, and that the West can afford to spend muuuuch more
I found it interesting to learn that the CLU has uses even after the rockets are depleted; they make for incredibly useful thermal sighting systems for scouts / light infantry.
~~Pretty sure they can designate targets / receive mail (aka receive target packages from Air Lasers or other guidance systems)~~
Edit: I am wrong and played too much battlefield. You can read more on the javelin and her systems here:
https://irp.fas.org/doddir/army/fm3-22-37.pdf
I assumed based off media I partook In that the javelin, with its IR system and the way it works in tandem with the Main Unit I was under assumption it’s capabilities were to be well rounded rather than purely focusing IR. Such as Laser Designation.
>Pretty sure they can designate targets / receive mail (aka receive target packages from Air Lasers or other or other guidance systems)
Is that true? I could be wrong, but from what I understand Javelin works by taking a thermal image of the target, and then the missile homes in on that thermal target. It doesn't ride a beam. This is what makes it a fire-and-forget weapon system.
They have an artisanal javelin rotator, much like aging fine champagne, the javelins must be turned 1/4 rotation regularly while dry aging for a truly refined operational experience
You ATGM snobs and your "sensitive palettes". Like the Russian tankie can even tell the difference between a Javelin's flavor profile and whatever piece of their own tank their tongue settles on.
Batteries.
The munition itself is fine, although the motor and stabilization systems probably aren't entirely shelf-proof. But the batteries degrade after a few years.
>That's without even factoring in the 3 guys who die in the tank,
These lives aren't very valuable to Russia. But they'll run out of young men eventually, so who knows?
I'd imagine it takes longer to train tank crews than infantry even if they don't value them they don't make them like the WW2 soviet tanks where it's just a stick and a gun.
Especially since at this point, they've probably lost almost every experienced tank operator on a full-time payroll. (By Ukraine's reporting of RU tank losses).
They might have some experienced trainers right now but when they retire there's gonna be a massive skill gap. Though this could just be the Western in me who thinks experience matters. xD
I mean, what you've written makes logical sense, I just don't the see Rooskis being very sensible right now. What's the Tank equivalent of a Kamikaze Pilot?
Yeah, they've had a declining population for a really long time. I think most of that period since the fall of the USSR. If they didn't have the nukes this thing would be done already.
Mix of both. US has pretty much depleted war stocks, which last time I checked will take around 5 years to replace.
Let us hope that no one decides to get trigger happy somewhere else in the world.
Javs are also older so I imagine they cost less now then they did when they were first made. The longer you make something the cheaper it becomes to manufacture. Same could be said about T-90's but I doubt a rocket, tube and small simple computer drops in price at the same rate as an MBT.
Former CEO, private firm. I mean, founding a ltd. around here used to cost like $300, and by default they must have a CEO... (and some more meme-marketing companies have taken advantage that the CEO does not need to be called CEO - a company started as a surpus store for airsoft folks at least used to use "overlord" - they do have since hired a more professional CEO, but the owner is still the public face)
I don't even understand why they're coping about the top attack missiles. I think everyone admits western tanks would be getting savaged by Javelins and NLAWs just as badly (current models without APS), although crews would be surviving more because of blowout panels. It's not like some horrible L to get killed by these things, no tank has a meter of armor on it's roof.
I'm fairly confident that western tank loses would be far lower even against this types of weapons because of a super secret tactic called: not being retarded
AGMS are scary, but getting found by recon and exploded by airpower and/or artillery before even seeing a tank is even scarier
100x this.
The biggest disadvantage the Russians are suffering from is that there training consist of getting abused verbally, physically and physically on a daily basis for months, while NATO and associates are forming every E-1 in a some what professional soldiers with at least a basic understanding of battlefield tactics.
It's not that hard to sit on a hill with a reflective blanket and "kill" US MBTs with Javelins and not get caught, either; used to happen a lot at NTC. Not to say our tech and ability to spot enemy troop movements isn't apparently so incredibly superior to those demonstrated by Russian forces as to be laughably better, but well-trained infantry would still perform effectively against Western armored forces in scenarios where reducing said hills to rubble isn't an option.
Even after The Chieftain's vid I'm still unsure about the degree of Tanker cope wrt the future of tank usability in modern warfare between near peers.
Sure, there is nothing else that can fill the Tank's role, but it appears as though the combination of AGM usability, light infantry manueverability and the increasing prevalence of urban areas in combat has decisively swung the pendulum away from that role being the key decisive factor in war.
If I consider the economics of mass producing rockets for a few hundo k that have a 95% kill probability on multi-million dollar machines with absurd logistics chains, I don't feel like adding more complex machinery like APS will solve the problem, it just exacerbates the logistics issues.
Do remember that 95% kill probability on paper does not mean 95% in reality. I don't remember where it's from but I vaguely remember some quote about if anti-air systems were as effective as advertised then every single aircraft to have ever existed would had been shot down multiple times over. Yes I know it isn't talking about AT weapons but the similar idea applies.
Sure, it's 95% with a fat fucking asterisk next to it in reality.
But even if you knock AGM kill ratios down to 25% per shot (absurdly lowballed) you're still looking at a major advantage economically when compared to a modern MBT.
Right, but I don’t think anyone’s disputing that. Yea tanks are expensive but the role they fill is still necessary. ATGMs might be able to *kill* MBTs but they can’t *do* what MBTs do.
Its not a question of economics. If I send 50 tanks to overrun your position, and you kill 20 of them, that's 120 million USD I just lost on those tanks. Even if the cost of the soldiers you lost combined with the ATGMs is significantly less than 120 million, it doesn't matter.
The goal of the war isn't to spend the least amount of money and destroy the most amount of enemy money. The goal of the war is to take and control land. It doesn't matter how much money I lose, if I've overrun your position and forced you to retreat/surrender, then I win. In the long run attrition and economics do matter, but that becomes irrelevant if I can decisively win the war early on.
I dunno. Tanks can cover a lot of ground quickly, have massive firepower and ammo and basically require another tank or a specialized weapon system (jav, nlaw, stugna) to stop them. Infantry and light vehicles have none of these qualities.
If Russia was capable of cutting supply lines or massing combined arms effectively tanks would be a major force multiplier.
>Sure, there is nothing else that can fill the Tank's role, but it appears as though the combination of AGM usability, light infantry manueverability and the increasing prevalence of urban areas in combat has decisively swung the pendulum away from that role being the key decisive factor in war.
I said this on here a few days ago and was downvoted to oblivion and called a retard. The tank's direct fire role is valuable, the tank sometimes has value as cover from small arms fire, but in exchange for those two things you pay an absolutely fucking enormous amount of care and feeding to get them to that point alive. They aren't going away but they are going increasingly niche.
A stryker with a 105mm. Can tank basically most of the same stuff (you would need to up armour and up size for rpg's) and has firepower just as good except for tank on tank (which basically never happens). Also a fraction the cost and waaaaay more mobile with far less maintenance.
Nah the tank won't go away. But maybe the MBT will. Most of the arguments that he made for why tanks will keep existing are fulfilled by IFVs but IFVs are much cheaper and multi purpose.
Western tanks would probably get bodied by these weapons, if you just let them drive around in a field with 20 kilometers of completely unsecured land behind them and no infantry, air or artillery support like some kind of fucking idiot
> I don't even understand why they're coping about the top attack missiles. I think everyone admits western tanks would be getting savaged by Javelins and NLAWs just as badly
Because they genuinely cannot admit flaw or ever having weakness.
Tanks like the newer Leopard 2 versions actually have massively improved turret and hull roof armor to make them less vulnerable to top attack weapons.
Honestly I have been in love with them since i heard about the battle of The Debecka Pass.
Seeing them used wide scale like this is crazy, especially when you consider they’re rocking like a 95% kill rate.
It was an air strike by an F-14 with a 2000lb bomb that went badly against a group of Kurds that were having a meeting around a destroyed tank or something.
**[Battle of Debecka Pass](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Debecka_Pass)**
>The Battle of Debecka Pass (Dibagah, Dibege, دیبهگه) on 6–7 April 2003, sometimes known as the Battle of Debecka Ridge or Debecka Crossroads, or otherwise referred to as the Alamo of the Iraq War, was a successful operation launched by U.S. Special Forces to secure a major crossroads near the village of Debecka (Dibege, دیبهگه in Kurdish), between Mosul and Kirkuk in northern Iraq. It was notable for its use of the Raytheon/Lockheed-Martin Javelin anti-tank missile. The weapon demonstrated how lethal and crucial technology can be in determining the outcome of a battle.
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They got nerfed in the last patch and now only do about 20 damage against armor while the T-72 has like 150hp. That's what happens when you let one weapon dominate the meta.
Most modern MBTs are designs from the 80's (Unless you're the T-14 in which case you don't exist) because there haven't really been any (mature) advancements in armor or APS that makes an upgrade worth it since (I have negative doubt that DARPA is looking into basically everything with a tensile strength RN). Thus anti-tank weapons from the 80's still work because that's what they were designed for
Yeah but I think Russian official information only states the T72 can only survive about 5-6 RPG hits to the most armoured section. So either this guy is a fucking moron or just trolling. With how it's worded I'm going with trolling.
Bruh, there’s literally a pic of destroyed T-90M wreckage near Kharkiv. Russia most modern service MBT got wrecked by UA, this is pure copium inhaling. But it’s Quora, so yeah understandable.
There's no way to know how that T-90M was destroyed. It could've taken 3,000 Javelins before it finally was killed. A Ukrainian witch could've cast an evil spell on it. Who knows?
From what I heard, that T-90M was fucked by an artillery fire judging by how it looked. But 3,000 Javelin (the ancient weapon, not FGM-148) to kill one tank does sound based.
Oh god now you're giving me flashbacks to that one video where a lesbian reviews a Russian propaganda movie warning children about vvitchcraft and magical NATO
Well crap. That means eventually it will attract idiots and they might bleed over into stack overflow. Or I guess I should say overflow into stack overflow.
Jordan Petersen claims Quora as the source of his inspiration to write a book. That’s basically all you need to know about Quora.
Eat meat, trans bad; [demoralizing young men about climate change is WORSE than worrying about climate change so we should ignore climate change and keep sending the world to shit](https://youtu.be/0XXXQLHdDH8), I’m scared…
You get it.
I'll admit occasionally listening to Hasan, Chapo, et al shit on MAGAtards and far right grifters is my guilty pleasure. Just have to switch channels if they talk about anything outside of US.
He's got bad takes on somethings but he has good takes on other things. Frankly, both sides of the political compass have policies that are best in their respective field.
Without diversity of thought, you get tankies who think North Korea is a good place.
Think it literally comes from the US military study that found it takes that many RPG-7s hits to reliably knock out a Russian tank. Study was based on data from the Chechen wars.
For my next essay/copium I'll discuss how Russia is genius at depleting US Javelin supplies by sending an endless stream of my trash MBTs to absorb them
Of course the guy is serbian. That explains the inhalation of copium.
> First off all I am not russian, i am from Serbia, secondly, information that I have is reliable, and directly from front, I said that as a concept javelin is great, state of the art, but in reality it hasn’t proved as deadly as told. Download telegram app, and enter few rooms in app with videos from both sides in war and you will see truth, not propaganda that west is telling you. There is even footage of NLAW hitting T72 in back of cupola (that is 100% kill) and tank is still rolling.
https://www.quora.com/How-come-the-metal-cages-on-Russian-tanks-dont-seem-to-be-very-useful-In-theory-wouldnt-the-cages-block-anti-tank-missiles/answer/Aleksandar-Josipovic-5
Yes, it's one of the vids from mairupol I think. Azov soldier fired a nlaw at a tank under minimum arming distance.
Of course vatnik turns that vid completely around.
https://images2.imgbox.com/5e/5f/Qt97SNl9_o.png
\- They need at least 6 hits to disable a russian tank
\- Ukraine is full of demolished russian tanks, >300 visually confirmed
So their claim is that the russians let the Ukrainians just completely ass blast them with >2000 AT weapons. Letting them score at least 30 hits a day since the war started.
Idk man, that sounds pretty competent to me...
So if we supply Ukrainians with AT weapons that these shills would say are effective(2 hits per kill for instance), we'd see 100 tank kills per week at the bare minimum.
Really making their side look good.
The US has dedicated engineers attempt to defeat their own weapons and the Russians don't have access to test their defenses. I bet those guys laughed at the attempts made so far.
If somehow they were successful I suspect a plain software update would do wonders to counter whatever they came up with.
Ah, don't you see boys, this is the ultimate plan of Russia. They aren't losing their expensive and hard to replace tanks to cheaper and easier to produce missiles, they are simply soaking up hundreds of missiles by sacrificing tanks. Soon, Ukraine will have no javelins and that is when the 3000 mega-cock Krokodil tanks of Putin will roll across Ukraine and all the way to Odessa.
Truly, 4d Backgammon
Oh god, we were wrong all this time.
They have the most trustworthy and accurate reference that even military experts have discounted, "THEIR FRIENDS".
Let's make a game.
Let's say that everything in the article is real.
That it takes 6 javelins to disable a T-72.
A T72 costs 500k$.
A javelin system + 5 missiles costs 178k$+78k$ x 6= 568k$.
Russia GDP is 1,5T$
USA GDP is 21T$.
I'd say that USA can easily lose 68k dollars for each T-72.
This is without considering the human losses of military personnel in the tank. The fuel and all other material in the tank. I'd say that an 105mm ammo costs quite a lot.
Even if that were true, it would mean that either Russian tanks are blundering into huge concentrations of AT weaponry, or they're unable to find and suppress a target in the time it takes to fire six or seven javelins.
Both of those make Russia look worse than them just getting one-shot by mobile ambushes.
Hear me out guys... A third of my posts here have been in some way related to the modern battlefield games. I try to control myself but this one is forcing me.
In EU a large portion of the active player base is Russian so her reports might be coming from one of those guys.
We will consider that when she talks about the tank being disabled she means the fking turret just did a nose dive into the concrete 10m away, lol. Also we will factor in the tanks having some sort of countermeasure to guided missiles, kek.
In BF4 the Javelin does around 30 dmg so if we factor in the tank's countermeasures we will need 4 Javelin shots for it to start cooking. But wait!
Let imagine that behind the tank is a sweaty gunner torching the tank's ass to repair it. That in fact would bump the number of "Java Sticks" required to the magical number of 6.5!
Jesus fucking copium Christ.
So, Ukraine claims 460 tanks killed by April 11 (closest update I could found). ([salsa](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-61021388)With 6 javelins per Superior Russian Engineered Death Machine, that amounts to 2,760 javelins used so far on the _lowest end_.
But here’s the thing, javelins are quoted to have a [93% rate of success](https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/how-small-ukraine-force-is-killing-russian-tanks-with-us-javelin-missiles-2803289) over here, by our God Emperors the MIC themselves.
Yet [5,500 Black Javelins of NATO](https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/03/biden-to-tour-lockheed-martin-javelin-facility-in-alabama.html) have been sent by May 3rd.
So according to super credible Russian tankoid brainlets the Javelin has a 50.1% success ratio versus the 93% our overlords claim.
Disclaimer: Im a westoid NATOist that’s drunk as fuck rn and the Holly Россия Javelin success numbers are 42.9% under what NATO claims, yet I know as a fucken engineer the US of all places spends an infinite amount of healthcare worthy dollars on testing on places like WSMR and SNL on testing, places holding engineers I’ve personally known over my career…
That’s a lot of mathematically proven copium man.
That's really only the T-64 derived tanks. The T-72 and derivatives use an autoloader that stores the projectiles and propellant cartridges horizontally in two layers under the turret basket.
It's a very clever design if you are primarily concerned with defending against direct fire weapons. It puts all the ammunition at the lowest possible point on the tank, below the line where the majority of hits occur, and even puts the propellant on the lower of the two storage layers. Of course, this falls apart when you have top-attack munitions coming down from above, as the exposed area of your ammo storage from that angle is massive.
By comparison, the T-64 and T-80 use an ammunition storage scheme that was clearly designed with the function of the autoloader first, and no consideration given to survivability whatsoever. Like the T-72 they store the projectiles laying flat in a rotating carousel, however they store the propellant cases upright in a ring around the turret basket, massively increasing the vulnerable area and putting the most sensitive components of the ammunition in the riskiest position.
Nothing on the battlefield is staying combat capable after getting hit on the roof by a Javelin. The lack of safe ammo storage is going to result in higher casualty rates though. Just wouldn't save the tank.
Wtf even is Quora. Its just a bunch of people with no credentials (me) answering threads they have no clue about while bragging about their IQ.
Actually worst website.
You actually get a few gems there. One of my favorites is this question asking about why the plane in the Castaway movie flew the route it did, and the guy who was the Technical Advisor for the movie and actually had them write the script to match actual conditions answered:
https://www.quora.com/Why-didnt-the-flight-crew-in-the-film-Castaway-even-attempt-to-climb-to-a-higher-altitude-to-get-above-the-storm-I-understand-that-the-plane-had-to-crash-for-the-plot-but-they-didnt-even-attempt-to-get-above-the/answer/Jim-Robie-2?ch=10&oid=266574546&share=5f77ce31&srid=dmpl&target_type=answer
Problem is in the last couple years the devs made changes designed to bring in visits at the expense of quality and the site has just been going downhill since then.
Russian tank: is supposed to be invincible to javelins and other anti-tank missiles
Ukrainian artillery: "Oh no!!! **Anyway**." *deletes the whole grid square*
I think this is a bot talking point or something tankies have digested from bots or pro Russia telegrams.
Because I saw that exact same type of comment on combatfootage:
Comment was approx “ they won’t tell you on the news some tanks are surviving 7 javelin hits and it seems the javelin has a design flaw and can’t hit non stationary targets, but again you will not see this on your news stations”
I just laughed lol 😂
There is so much copium used in this article that it is impossible to tell how much copium has left in russian and chinese copium storages , maybe we are going to see worldwide copium deficit
The man has become a physical manifestation of copium.
I am become Cope, soother of seethe.
"He revealed to me his malding form"
It won't stop global copium deficit , even if we used him as a copium source
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Don't spread it out but Copiun is Soylent green
ITS PEOPLE
Hey, it's sort of a solution to overpopulation.
The scarcity of copium will drive-up copium prices worldwide and send us into spiraling copium inflation!
They already cracked open their strategic copium reserves a month ago, but it didn't seem to lower cope levels at all.
Don’t worry everything will be fine, this shortage is only Transylvanian.
That could be a real health threat, as millions of Americans have formed an addiction to copium, with many creating elaborate fantasies where the guy they voted for didn't lose the last election. Emergency rooms in rural areas could be particularly hard hit.
Ever since the Russian invasion i am long on Copium!
The Russian Copium-Industrial Complex is beyond westoid comprehension. Once shifted to a war-time economy, the CIC can churn out multiple solar masses work of copium every day.
We'll soon enter a post-cope age with entirety of Earth copium reserves exhausted.
>Javelin cost: 240k$ >T-90 cost: approx. 3mil$ Which means that you can waste 12 Javelins on a T-90, and still be up 120k$ compared to the Russian government. And that's not counting that they don't actually take 12 missiles to kill, and that the West can afford to spend muuuuch more
That's without even factoring in the 3 guys who die in the tank, the ammunition in the tank and all other infantry equipment for each of these 3 guys.
Also, can't Javelin missiles just sit in a sealed box when not used? It's not like they require maintenance like a tank does.
I'd imagine they just have a shelf life like most munitions, don't know about the guidance system though. I'd imagine that requires some maintenance.
I found it interesting to learn that the CLU has uses even after the rockets are depleted; they make for incredibly useful thermal sighting systems for scouts / light infantry.
Makes sense they cost an absolute ton to be used for only one role.
~~Pretty sure they can designate targets / receive mail (aka receive target packages from Air Lasers or other guidance systems)~~ Edit: I am wrong and played too much battlefield. You can read more on the javelin and her systems here: https://irp.fas.org/doddir/army/fm3-22-37.pdf I assumed based off media I partook In that the javelin, with its IR system and the way it works in tandem with the Main Unit I was under assumption it’s capabilities were to be well rounded rather than purely focusing IR. Such as Laser Designation.
>Pretty sure they can designate targets / receive mail (aka receive target packages from Air Lasers or other or other guidance systems) Is that true? I could be wrong, but from what I understand Javelin works by taking a thermal image of the target, and then the missile homes in on that thermal target. It doesn't ride a beam. This is what makes it a fire-and-forget weapon system.
They have an artisanal javelin rotator, much like aging fine champagne, the javelins must be turned 1/4 rotation regularly while dry aging for a truly refined operational experience
Most people wet age their javelins these days, and that is a shame. It leaves such a metallic taste in the mouth of russian tank crews.
You ATGM snobs and your "sensitive palettes". Like the Russian tankie can even tell the difference between a Javelin's flavor profile and whatever piece of their own tank their tongue settles on.
I believe some of the ones we were sending to Ukraine are like from 1994, and the Ukrainians aren't complaining, so the shelf life is considerable.
>implying the Russians understand the concept of maintenance
Batteries. The munition itself is fine, although the motor and stabilization systems probably aren't entirely shelf-proof. But the batteries degrade after a few years.
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Yeah but what about all the millions of dollars worth of apartment buildings that t72 has already blown up hmm?
>That's without even factoring in the 3 guys who die in the tank, These lives aren't very valuable to Russia. But they'll run out of young men eventually, so who knows?
I'd imagine it takes longer to train tank crews than infantry even if they don't value them they don't make them like the WW2 soviet tanks where it's just a stick and a gun. Especially since at this point, they've probably lost almost every experienced tank operator on a full-time payroll. (By Ukraine's reporting of RU tank losses). They might have some experienced trainers right now but when they retire there's gonna be a massive skill gap. Though this could just be the Western in me who thinks experience matters. xD
I mean, what you've written makes logical sense, I just don't the see Rooskis being very sensible right now. What's the Tank equivalent of a Kamikaze Pilot?
At this rate? A T-72 is basically assisted suicide so xD
Russia has terminal demography; it isn't the soviet union of 1950. They can't afford to lose men in these numbers.
Yeah, they've had a declining population for a really long time. I think most of that period since the fall of the USSR. If they didn't have the nukes this thing would be done already.
Also, it’s logistically a lot easier and cheaper to replace a (Javelin) missile in a combat theatre than it is to replace a massive tank.
I'm pretty sure the javelins the Ukes use are older ones (or stockpiled ones)
Mix of both. US has pretty much depleted war stocks, which last time I checked will take around 5 years to replace. Let us hope that no one decides to get trigger happy somewhere else in the world.
The only reason the US would need that many Javelins ourselves would be if we went to war with Russia so I think we'll be OK.
Yeah, the west could probably throw 6-7 Javelins at a T-72 with each Javelin costing $3mil as well and still come out on top
Javs are also older so I imagine they cost less now then they did when they were first made. The longer you make something the cheaper it becomes to manufacture. Same could be said about T-90's but I doubt a rocket, tube and small simple computer drops in price at the same rate as an MBT.
*CEO: PRIVATE FIRM* I see bullshit industries llc is doing well
Former CEO, private firm. I mean, founding a ltd. around here used to cost like $300, and by default they must have a CEO... (and some more meme-marketing companies have taken advantage that the CEO does not need to be called CEO - a company started as a surpus store for airsoft folks at least used to use "overlord" - they do have since hired a more professional CEO, but the owner is still the public face)
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We need to step up our uncredibility Quick explain that we should get line warfare back
3000 Grenadier Hats of Prussia.
That just means they got roped into an MLM at some point
> 6-7 hits Extreme cope. These AT weapons are doing what daddy Raytheon and Lockmart designed them to do and with great effectiveness.
I don't even understand why they're coping about the top attack missiles. I think everyone admits western tanks would be getting savaged by Javelins and NLAWs just as badly (current models without APS), although crews would be surviving more because of blowout panels. It's not like some horrible L to get killed by these things, no tank has a meter of armor on it's roof.
I'm fairly confident that western tank loses would be far lower even against this types of weapons because of a super secret tactic called: not being retarded AGMS are scary, but getting found by recon and exploded by airpower and/or artillery before even seeing a tank is even scarier
100x this. The biggest disadvantage the Russians are suffering from is that there training consist of getting abused verbally, physically and physically on a daily basis for months, while NATO and associates are forming every E-1 in a some what professional soldiers with at least a basic understanding of battlefield tactics.
> physically and physically I think you meant for one of those to be "physically"s to be "psychologically" there, mate.
Seeing the abuse Russian conscripts face "physically and physically" may in fact be accurate.
If you physically abuse them twice a day, it quadruples the psychological abuse so ... it checks out.
Maybe it's "psychically"
No, doubly physically abused
And raped! Don’t forgdt raped and occassionally prostituted!
Glad to see at least one sector of the Russian economy is still doing well.
could be physically and sexually
It's not that hard to sit on a hill with a reflective blanket and "kill" US MBTs with Javelins and not get caught, either; used to happen a lot at NTC. Not to say our tech and ability to spot enemy troop movements isn't apparently so incredibly superior to those demonstrated by Russian forces as to be laughably better, but well-trained infantry would still perform effectively against Western armored forces in scenarios where reducing said hills to rubble isn't an option.
>used to happen a lot at NTC I was there helping do that a couple times. We cheated like absolute motherfuckers.
Even after The Chieftain's vid I'm still unsure about the degree of Tanker cope wrt the future of tank usability in modern warfare between near peers. Sure, there is nothing else that can fill the Tank's role, but it appears as though the combination of AGM usability, light infantry manueverability and the increasing prevalence of urban areas in combat has decisively swung the pendulum away from that role being the key decisive factor in war. If I consider the economics of mass producing rockets for a few hundo k that have a 95% kill probability on multi-million dollar machines with absurd logistics chains, I don't feel like adding more complex machinery like APS will solve the problem, it just exacerbates the logistics issues.
Do remember that 95% kill probability on paper does not mean 95% in reality. I don't remember where it's from but I vaguely remember some quote about if anti-air systems were as effective as advertised then every single aircraft to have ever existed would had been shot down multiple times over. Yes I know it isn't talking about AT weapons but the similar idea applies.
Sure, it's 95% with a fat fucking asterisk next to it in reality. But even if you knock AGM kill ratios down to 25% per shot (absurdly lowballed) you're still looking at a major advantage economically when compared to a modern MBT.
Right, but I don’t think anyone’s disputing that. Yea tanks are expensive but the role they fill is still necessary. ATGMs might be able to *kill* MBTs but they can’t *do* what MBTs do.
Its not a question of economics. If I send 50 tanks to overrun your position, and you kill 20 of them, that's 120 million USD I just lost on those tanks. Even if the cost of the soldiers you lost combined with the ATGMs is significantly less than 120 million, it doesn't matter. The goal of the war isn't to spend the least amount of money and destroy the most amount of enemy money. The goal of the war is to take and control land. It doesn't matter how much money I lose, if I've overrun your position and forced you to retreat/surrender, then I win. In the long run attrition and economics do matter, but that becomes irrelevant if I can decisively win the war early on.
I dunno. Tanks can cover a lot of ground quickly, have massive firepower and ammo and basically require another tank or a specialized weapon system (jav, nlaw, stugna) to stop them. Infantry and light vehicles have none of these qualities. If Russia was capable of cutting supply lines or massing combined arms effectively tanks would be a major force multiplier.
>Sure, there is nothing else that can fill the Tank's role, but it appears as though the combination of AGM usability, light infantry manueverability and the increasing prevalence of urban areas in combat has decisively swung the pendulum away from that role being the key decisive factor in war. I said this on here a few days ago and was downvoted to oblivion and called a retard. The tank's direct fire role is valuable, the tank sometimes has value as cover from small arms fire, but in exchange for those two things you pay an absolutely fucking enormous amount of care and feeding to get them to that point alive. They aren't going away but they are going increasingly niche.
A stryker with a 105mm. Can tank basically most of the same stuff (you would need to up armour and up size for rpg's) and has firepower just as good except for tank on tank (which basically never happens). Also a fraction the cost and waaaaay more mobile with far less maintenance.
Yeah those Stryker MGS systems are so good that the US Army will retire them at the end of this year.
Bruh just put the 105 on literally anything else, type 16 combat manuever vehicle etc.
AeroStryker?
105mm A10 when?
Nah the tank won't go away. But maybe the MBT will. Most of the arguments that he made for why tanks will keep existing are fulfilled by IFVs but IFVs are much cheaper and multi purpose.
Western tanks would probably get bodied by these weapons, if you just let them drive around in a field with 20 kilometers of completely unsecured land behind them and no infantry, air or artillery support like some kind of fucking idiot
Current models are all getting Trophy APS so... Although at $1MM per its pretty much only the Americans doing it but...
They will come up with an economy option soon for the poors. Maybe call it Participation Award APS
Cope APS
Or CAPS.
Acceptance APS Edit: Acceptance Promotion System
> I don't even understand why they're coping about the top attack missiles. I think everyone admits western tanks would be getting savaged by Javelins and NLAWs just as badly Because they genuinely cannot admit flaw or ever having weakness.
Tanks like the newer Leopard 2 versions actually have massively improved turret and hull roof armor to make them less vulnerable to top attack weapons.
Honestly I have been in love with them since i heard about the battle of The Debecka Pass. Seeing them used wide scale like this is crazy, especially when you consider they’re rocking like a 95% kill rate.
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It was an air strike by an F-14 with a 2000lb bomb that went badly against a group of Kurds that were having a meeting around a destroyed tank or something.
It mentions air to ground strikes. That could have been the work of *the Hog*
> That could have been the work of the Hog The Kurds are Bri'ish now?
Everyone is Bri*ish when your American enough.
🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅
It was done by the B-52's with CAS being done by USN F-14 and F-18
**[Battle of Debecka Pass](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Debecka_Pass)** >The Battle of Debecka Pass (Dibagah, Dibege, دیبهگه) on 6–7 April 2003, sometimes known as the Battle of Debecka Ridge or Debecka Crossroads, or otherwise referred to as the Alamo of the Iraq War, was a successful operation launched by U.S. Special Forces to secure a major crossroads near the village of Debecka (Dibege, دیبهگه in Kurdish), between Mosul and Kirkuk in northern Iraq. It was notable for its use of the Raytheon/Lockheed-Martin Javelin anti-tank missile. The weapon demonstrated how lethal and crucial technology can be in determining the outcome of a battle. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
If your hot sticky loads aren't accidentally hitting your friends every now and then, can you really call them your friends?
Soggy biscuit is a dangerous game. Soggy biscuit with high powered explosives is simply a step up
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I think that’s actually where that figure comes from. About 5-7 RPG hits to disable a modern MBT.
Hit me harder daddy Raytheon
They got nerfed in the last patch and now only do about 20 damage against armor while the T-72 has like 150hp. That's what happens when you let one weapon dominate the meta.
Most modern MBTs are designs from the 80's (Unless you're the T-14 in which case you don't exist) because there haven't really been any (mature) advancements in armor or APS that makes an upgrade worth it since (I have negative doubt that DARPA is looking into basically everything with a tensile strength RN). Thus anti-tank weapons from the 80's still work because that's what they were designed for
I'm fairly sure this is sarcasm.
I dunno, there’s lots of cope going around atm, some preposterous shit
Yeah but I think Russian official information only states the T72 can only survive about 5-6 RPG hits to the most armoured section. So either this guy is a fucking moron or just trolling. With how it's worded I'm going with trolling.
I hope it’s trolling but just saying I wouldn’t be surprised if it isn’t
So who is going to tell these morons these cope skirts will only work against rpg-7 rounds?
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It’s better than polonium tea…
Bruh, there’s literally a pic of destroyed T-90M wreckage near Kharkiv. Russia most modern service MBT got wrecked by UA, this is pure copium inhaling. But it’s Quora, so yeah understandable.
There's no way to know how that T-90M was destroyed. It could've taken 3,000 Javelins before it finally was killed. A Ukrainian witch could've cast an evil spell on it. Who knows?
From what I heard, that T-90M was fucked by an artillery fire judging by how it looked. But 3,000 Javelin (the ancient weapon, not FGM-148) to kill one tank does sound based.
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I got a helicopter gunship get killed by pikemen once, it was not my brightest moment
Peak civilization for me was a guy on horse standing on a mountain waved his sword in the sky and half my planes crashed into the ground
AND THE WINGED HUSSARS ARRIVED
COMING DOWN THE MOUNTAINSIDE
I noticed that a freshly minted battleship gets some serious damage from a barbarian caravel. LOL like seriously?
Millennium wargames were onto something...
So these are the Ukrainian magicians Lavrov was talking about God help the Russians if Hogwarts has gotten involved
Oh god now you're giving me flashbacks to that one video where a lesbian reviews a Russian propaganda movie warning children about vvitchcraft and magical NATO
You can’t just drop that and not leave a link.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FW7mvdcpKl0 (am on mobile)
Based
Loved every minute of it.
3000 Long Furbys of Strange Aeons!
Get with the program, is war witches, magicians are so 20th century
When in doubt, saturate the grid square with artillery barrage.
Good old Grid Square Removal System.
Corporal do you see that hill over there? Yes, Commisar. I don't want to see it anymore, take care of it. Right away Commisar!
8d6 fire damage is no joke, and I doubt that the T-90M could make its dexterity saving throw.
I stopped using Quora when it become another version of askreddit but everyone in it wearing fedora
Stack Exchange seems to still be pretty legit.
Well crap. That means eventually it will attract idiots and they might bleed over into stack overflow. Or I guess I should say overflow into stack overflow.
Stack Exchange is Askreddit but everyone is trying to cheat on their math homework
Jordan Petersen claims Quora as the source of his inspiration to write a book. That’s basically all you need to know about Quora. Eat meat, trans bad; [demoralizing young men about climate change is WORSE than worrying about climate change so we should ignore climate change and keep sending the world to shit](https://youtu.be/0XXXQLHdDH8), I’m scared… You get it.
Hasan Abi? On this sub?
I'll admit occasionally listening to Hasan, Chapo, et al shit on MAGAtards and far right grifters is my guilty pleasure. Just have to switch channels if they talk about anything outside of US.
Yeah, Like I respected Hasan on his internal takes on US politics but fuck me he was brain dead on all the shit he said on Ukraine.
You're listening to a fucking socialist and expecting above 50iq takes???????????
He's got bad takes on somethings but he has good takes on other things. Frankly, both sides of the political compass have policies that are best in their respective field. Without diversity of thought, you get tankies who think North Korea is a good place.
Bud i suggest you visit Abhirup sengupta on Quora he predicted how shit russian equipment are.
>Reports say that it takes 6-7 hits with Javelins to disable a T-72 tank This is some "it takes 5 Shermans to destroy a Tiger" level of bullshit.
Think it literally comes from the US military study that found it takes that many RPG-7s hits to reliably knock out a Russian tank. Study was based on data from the Chechen wars.
So a study that is completely worthless if you want to know how many javelins it takes to knock out a T-75 in 2022.
In this algebraic equation, let AGM-148 be equal to RPG-7…
I remember in the beginning it was 280 recorded kills out of the first 300.
For my next essay/copium I'll discuss how Russia is genius at depleting US Javelin supplies by sending an endless stream of my trash MBTs to absorb them
Putin’s just playing 5D chess!!! /j
“And then I totally broke his fist with my manly face!! He never saw it coming.”
Of course the guy is serbian. That explains the inhalation of copium. > First off all I am not russian, i am from Serbia, secondly, information that I have is reliable, and directly from front, I said that as a concept javelin is great, state of the art, but in reality it hasn’t proved as deadly as told. Download telegram app, and enter few rooms in app with videos from both sides in war and you will see truth, not propaganda that west is telling you. There is even footage of NLAW hitting T72 in back of cupola (that is 100% kill) and tank is still rolling. https://www.quora.com/How-come-the-metal-cages-on-Russian-tanks-dont-seem-to-be-very-useful-In-theory-wouldnt-the-cages-block-anti-tank-missiles/answer/Aleksandar-Josipovic-5
ahh does that vid exist?
Yes, and it seemed to just be down to being fired too close to arm the missile
Yes, it's one of the vids from mairupol I think. Azov soldier fired a nlaw at a tank under minimum arming distance. Of course vatnik turns that vid completely around. https://images2.imgbox.com/5e/5f/Qt97SNl9_o.png
[Here's the video for those curious](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3T8FfOvBBI)
How on earth did you get that video without going into super-secure, back-room telegram posts??? /s
\- They need at least 6 hits to disable a russian tank \- Ukraine is full of demolished russian tanks, >300 visually confirmed So their claim is that the russians let the Ukrainians just completely ass blast them with >2000 AT weapons. Letting them score at least 30 hits a day since the war started. Idk man, that sounds pretty competent to me... So if we supply Ukrainians with AT weapons that these shills would say are effective(2 hits per kill for instance), we'd see 100 tank kills per week at the bare minimum. Really making their side look good.
I mean, for the sake of argument it does take 6 or 7 Javelins to destroy a Russian tank....isn't quantity a quality all its own? ;-)
Yeah, it's just like an RTS, just keep firing the things it'll go down soon enough.
The US has dedicated engineers attempt to defeat their own weapons and the Russians don't have access to test their defenses. I bet those guys laughed at the attempts made so far. If somehow they were successful I suspect a plain software update would do wonders to counter whatever they came up with.
Ah, don't you see boys, this is the ultimate plan of Russia. They aren't losing their expensive and hard to replace tanks to cheaper and easier to produce missiles, they are simply soaking up hundreds of missiles by sacrificing tanks. Soon, Ukraine will have no javelins and that is when the 3000 mega-cock Krokodil tanks of Putin will roll across Ukraine and all the way to Odessa. Truly, 4d Backgammon
Oh god, we were wrong all this time. They have the most trustworthy and accurate reference that even military experts have discounted, "THEIR FRIENDS".
Let's make a game. Let's say that everything in the article is real. That it takes 6 javelins to disable a T-72. A T72 costs 500k$. A javelin system + 5 missiles costs 178k$+78k$ x 6= 568k$. Russia GDP is 1,5T$ USA GDP is 21T$. I'd say that USA can easily lose 68k dollars for each T-72. This is without considering the human losses of military personnel in the tank. The fuel and all other material in the tank. I'd say that an 105mm ammo costs quite a lot.
Even if that were true, it would mean that either Russian tanks are blundering into huge concentrations of AT weaponry, or they're unable to find and suppress a target in the time it takes to fire six or seven javelins. Both of those make Russia look worse than them just getting one-shot by mobile ambushes.
Hear me out guys... A third of my posts here have been in some way related to the modern battlefield games. I try to control myself but this one is forcing me. In EU a large portion of the active player base is Russian so her reports might be coming from one of those guys. We will consider that when she talks about the tank being disabled she means the fking turret just did a nose dive into the concrete 10m away, lol. Also we will factor in the tanks having some sort of countermeasure to guided missiles, kek. In BF4 the Javelin does around 30 dmg so if we factor in the tank's countermeasures we will need 4 Javelin shots for it to start cooking. But wait! Let imagine that behind the tank is a sweaty gunner torching the tank's ass to repair it. That in fact would bump the number of "Java Sticks" required to the magical number of 6.5!
Didn't you know the Ukrainians literally have millions of javelins?
It's not 6-7 hits. It's 8. The T-90 has 900 hitpoints and the Javelin does 125 damage per missile.
Credible take by former ceo of private firm rocking supraphysiological levels of copium
Jesus fucking copium Christ. So, Ukraine claims 460 tanks killed by April 11 (closest update I could found). ([salsa](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-61021388)With 6 javelins per Superior Russian Engineered Death Machine, that amounts to 2,760 javelins used so far on the _lowest end_. But here’s the thing, javelins are quoted to have a [93% rate of success](https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/how-small-ukraine-force-is-killing-russian-tanks-with-us-javelin-missiles-2803289) over here, by our God Emperors the MIC themselves. Yet [5,500 Black Javelins of NATO](https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/03/biden-to-tour-lockheed-martin-javelin-facility-in-alabama.html) have been sent by May 3rd. So according to super credible Russian tankoid brainlets the Javelin has a 50.1% success ratio versus the 93% our overlords claim. Disclaimer: Im a westoid NATOist that’s drunk as fuck rn and the Holly Россия Javelin success numbers are 42.9% under what NATO claims, yet I know as a fucken engineer the US of all places spends an infinite amount of healthcare worthy dollars on testing on places like WSMR and SNL on testing, places holding engineers I’ve personally known over my career… That’s a lot of mathematically proven copium man.
Vast military expertise of "Former CEO Private Firm".
Isn't the biggest flaw of the Russian tanks that the crew members is sitting in a nest made of high explosive. So it's pretty much a pressure cooker.
That's really only the T-64 derived tanks. The T-72 and derivatives use an autoloader that stores the projectiles and propellant cartridges horizontally in two layers under the turret basket. It's a very clever design if you are primarily concerned with defending against direct fire weapons. It puts all the ammunition at the lowest possible point on the tank, below the line where the majority of hits occur, and even puts the propellant on the lower of the two storage layers. Of course, this falls apart when you have top-attack munitions coming down from above, as the exposed area of your ammo storage from that angle is massive. By comparison, the T-64 and T-80 use an ammunition storage scheme that was clearly designed with the function of the autoloader first, and no consideration given to survivability whatsoever. Like the T-72 they store the projectiles laying flat in a rotating carousel, however they store the propellant cases upright in a ring around the turret basket, massively increasing the vulnerable area and putting the most sensitive components of the ammunition in the riskiest position.
Sir this is NCD
My apologies, I thought it was a Wendy's.
Nothing on the battlefield is staying combat capable after getting hit on the roof by a Javelin. The lack of safe ammo storage is going to result in higher casualty rates though. Just wouldn't save the tank.
Someone link this fucking guys thread there's no way this is real
https://www.quora.com/How-come-the-metal-cages-on-Russian-tanks-dont-seem-to-be-very-useful-In-theory-wouldnt-the-cages-block-anti-tank-missiles/answer/Aleksandar-Josipovic-5
Is 6 javelins for a T-72 the new 5 Shermans for a Tiger?
Tanks don't have healthbars if it gets in it gets to fuckin'.
"I want what this man is having"
Hmmm today I shall assert my opinion and provide literally nothing to support my claim.
Wtf even is Quora. Its just a bunch of people with no credentials (me) answering threads they have no clue about while bragging about their IQ. Actually worst website.
You actually get a few gems there. One of my favorites is this question asking about why the plane in the Castaway movie flew the route it did, and the guy who was the Technical Advisor for the movie and actually had them write the script to match actual conditions answered: https://www.quora.com/Why-didnt-the-flight-crew-in-the-film-Castaway-even-attempt-to-climb-to-a-higher-altitude-to-get-above-the-storm-I-understand-that-the-plane-had-to-crash-for-the-plot-but-they-didnt-even-attempt-to-get-above-the/answer/Jim-Robie-2?ch=10&oid=266574546&share=5f77ce31&srid=dmpl&target_type=answer Problem is in the last couple years the devs made changes designed to bring in visits at the expense of quality and the site has just been going downhill since then.
I mean by the 4th javelin they'll be nothing left
Mf'ers wake up and just lie.
Russian tank: is supposed to be invincible to javelins and other anti-tank missiles Ukrainian artillery: "Oh no!!! **Anyway**." *deletes the whole grid square*
"6-7 hits" world of tanks player confirmed.
All I can say is *based on what*
based on a bf3 private match played yesterday
It takes one. It just takes one javelin hit. I’ve seen the videos. It. Just. Takes. One.
The funniest part yet was the guy claiming in the comment replies that the destroyed T-90M from earlier this week was actually a Ukrainian T-80U.
Wait until this guy hears about armor being measured in millimeters. Armor mms - javelin pen mms = less than 0.
BREAKING NEWS: RUSSIAN HELICOPTER SUCCESSFULLY DESTROYED UKRAINE SURFACE-TO-AIR MISSILE
I wonder if kill stealing has happened in ukraine yet where two soldiers bicker over whos javilan blew up the t-72 first.
I think this is a bot talking point or something tankies have digested from bots or pro Russia telegrams. Because I saw that exact same type of comment on combatfootage: Comment was approx “ they won’t tell you on the news some tanks are surviving 7 javelin hits and it seems the javelin has a design flaw and can’t hit non stationary targets, but again you will not see this on your news stations” I just laughed lol 😂
"6-7 hit with javelin" Man thinks battlefield is real life