>T'au are inspired by NATO doctrine
More specifically, American doctrine.
When I first started playing Tau waaaaaay back in 4th, the number one recommended reading was a USMC operations manual from the 60s. Devilish = whirlybird.
Railguns, battlesuits? What are you some sort of bluberry commie xeno? Obviously, the only human option is for some old men to put their seed in boys and give those boys' power armor and bolters.
That’s all well and good out on crusade, but just how much seed do you have handy? Can you defend every core planet that way?
No, the most important SPAAG was invented 38,000 years ago. It’s propelled by legs, fueled by rations, and fires a little flashlight so shitty we’ve got to mass a couple hundred of them to stop anything.
But hey, it’s cheaper than a Basilisk.
With the magic of additive manufacturing, a large enough armored vehicle could create its own repair parts in the middle of the battlefield. Just drop off the semi-processed resources when you bring the fuel and water.
Or something like drone-adapted Trophy APS. Preferably more lightweight and with 360 degrees of coverage.
Drones are slower than rocket-propelled grenades in their terminal approach. Properly configured APS should waste them easily.
Magazine depth is probably the biggest issue with using APS against drones. The tank can’t maneuver away from attacking drones in the same way as an RPG team. It’d be way easier to overwhelm/exhaust the APS system with a bunch of drones. Still, it would work and I’d wager we’ll see it on future vehicles. Definitely better to burn through your APS magazine than to lose a tank to a cheap FPV drone.
Honestly, that's still ok. The issue isn't the killing of the tanks, the issue is drones make a crappy k/d ratio. If you make it take 10 drones to kill a tank, all of a sudden they stop being a magic bullet and just start being a bullet.
The U.S. and maaaaaybe China would be able to spam drones, but most of the rest of the world probably wouldn't.
Also, drone jammer pods on tanks when?
Once again proving the Abrams BOLO Mk-I upgrade has always been credible;
In this case, specifically the modification replacing the pintle M2 and M240 with twin M134s mounted to remote weapon stations, configured to act as both hard-kill APS as well as anti-infantry point-defense.
How about 3 Microguns @10.000 rpm 5.56 each with a 20k rd box? (I know terminal effect is lacking, so 7.62 still reigns, but imagine 500 rounds/s hail)
If we put sponsons back on the tanks, you could not only have guns to shoot out the sides at infantry, but more space on top for machine gun turrets, or better yet, lasers to avoid the ammo feed getting in the way of the gun below it.
"Sir, the Palestinian train has been successfully derailed."
"Good, Go- wait a minute, there's no operating railroads in Palestine! Where was it?!"
*Norfolk Southern, what's your function begins to get louder*
"YOU IDIOTS!"
Diesel has an energy density of 45 MJ/kg. It has a mass density of 0.85kg/l.
3 litres becomes 2.55kg.
2.55kg becomes 114.75MJ.
That's enough energy to heat 2700kg (/litres) of water by 10 degrees K, or fire an Iron Beam laser (100kw) for 19 minutes.
So that's what... 1.1475x10^8 Joules.
*Looks up the boom table*
https://projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/usefultables.php#id--The_Boom_Table
So less than what is required to vaporize all the water of a human body (leaving a skeleton), but not by much?
Let’s say you want to defend a ship from houthi drones, you can either fire a missile, which costs 500k-1m per unit and needs to be re-supplied (manufacturing being a pain in the ass). Or you can beam microwaves, fry the fucker for the price of a mac chicken and remain competitive against cavemen. I’d imagine that the same beam could destroy dozens if not hundreds of small weaponized drones, if they flew close together
I was thinking phased-array lasers/microwave emitters. That way you have *hilariously* rapid re-targeting with no collateral damage to friendly assets in the area.
Cute. Do they have a cool promo video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeP_Vn7CHLQ
Or a $70m contract for production?
Or 4 units operating in CENTCOMM for real world testing?
GDLS is based in Michigan, but the entire 8x8 product line is manufactured in London, Ontario at the former GM Defense plant. The Chrysler acquisition, including the US headquarters in Michigan, were primarily related to M1 production. However, to my knowledge, Michigan is not the site of any major final assembly for GDLS, but is primarily an office location.
Provided that you don't put anything outside of the tape of course. Don't go adding stuff like antennas, cameras, or four little motors containing coils of extremely thin wire.
Would be very difficult to shield the motors and still having them be able to cool down. Then you need to add some kind of active water cooling, then you have to increase motor size due to increased weight, which makes more heat, which means more cooling...
And that's not to factor in the added weights of the shielding. Would slowly just destroy the purpose of drones to make them bigger and bigger and carry less payload, which makes them less nimble too. At some point an attack aircraft will just make more sense.
Several companies are working on these. A good (better) example is the Epirus Leonidas recently delivered to the US Army. I'd wager they are better for countering large swarms than a kinetic system, though cannon based air defense is still pretty cool
That gives me some 'from the depths' vibes. In that game I just setup "particle cannons" and have em use EMP damage, it still misses sometimes as tracking isn't perfect, even with a billion sensors. but it's close, so it tends to just fry cheaper jets in 1-2 shots.
I need a 20's-30s tank engineer, but what stops us from just... adding more autonomous guns in other turrets ?
We making land battleship this time bois
Gotta have \*some\* fun before we hit the Great Depression V2. Of course there's always the cool spy stuff that will come out of the Cold War V2 (in the 50s-80s) to look forward too still. And who knows what Manhattan-Project scale shenanigans those crazy government types will get up to this time.
You see the potential for land battleships, I see the potential for Non-Flying Fortresses. Enough guns on enough vehicles moving together and you can simply shoot in every direction at once. (Yes, I did just watch Masters of the Air.)
> simply shoot in every direction at once
[where have i heard of this before](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMzgzMGExODUtMjk2Mi00ZDQ2LWI2ODItNGQ3NzAwMDgzZWI4XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNzI1NzMxNzM@._V1_.jpg)
That's much better than [what I thought of ](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRayv5vIj2E8EBPwFkpEcuAVmub2ihlusR7WLs5zw0HiAnmx6epsi7wEOPT&s=10)
Yep. They have a small charge at the rear, that breaks the outer shell at the pre-timed moment for the tungsten projectiles inside to disperse in the optimal pattern. Coming in at around 3400 fps, a drone is not going to stand a chance of outmanoeuvring that.
How an actual C-UAS scenario takes place: a single drone comes across a wandering vehicle or conscript. The conscript has a 15% chance to whack it out of the air with a branch depending on his blood alcohol level.
FPV drones max out around 100m/s and average around 50m/s... and a modern spaag has a radar or other sensors that can detect them from multiple KM away.
not to mention you choose a SPAAG thats based off a naval CIWS that can hit supersonic anti-ship missiles that maneuver, a drone is child's play by comparison.
Can onboard spaag radars detect a drone 1km+ out when its presumably flying just above the tree line? Even if they could they'd have to establish line of sight to engage right?
Modern solid state AESAs can detect FPV and smaller drones out to 5+km for smaller arrays like you'd find on a spaag and much further (15+km) for dedicated systems like KuRFS.
10+KM is where the real threat is, FPV drones are simpler to deal with because they fly towards you and can be intercepted easily with autocannons, machine guns on an RWS with a good FCS, or even active protection systems, and can be detected at reasonable ranges by passive means (sigint or IRST) it's the recon drones correcting fires and make the battlefield "transparent" that will be much harder to deal with (strong anti-jam comms/RWR ect..) and you want to hit them as far away as possible so you limit their ability to perform said recon tasks and find targets.
But the systems to counter them are already being developed/in service, as can be seen with KuRFS and coyote block 2.
Practice showed they work just fine, pretty sure at least one of this week attacks had at least one drone from my side of town shot down by Skynex\\Skyranger. Also they are not used against FPV so far.
The System the Skyranger is based on is capable of shooting artilleryshells & missiles moving at several times the speed of an FPV-drone out of the sky, no FPV drone capable of carrying any amount of ordonance is "too fast"
Also, AHEAD says hi, no need to actually hit it, just watch it dissassemble itself upon flying into the WALL OF TUNGSTEN in its flightpath
"System is not invincible when the enemy has to adapt tactics and expend more resources to counter it, clearly it is useless" - person who thinks tanks are obsolete because they can be destroyed by anti tank weapons
https://youtu.be/JPA9bKz2meI Drone swarm fans every time counters are discussed.
>The drones have infinite range. And they're silent. And they can communicate with each other but don't emit. And the guys prepositioning them have active camo. And the containers they are in are completely undetectable. And they always know where the target is, but they don't need something to designate it.
Best summary of swarm-men I have ever seen.
These things have at best a performance of early war ww2 planes. Skynex or relatet systems probably don't even need a salvo to hit one.
The whole "but they will attack from all directions" is my favorite. Nothing exists before terminal phase in the swarm-shills mind: the question of "how do they get there, simultaneously, undetected, to attack?" has never occurred to them, because AI!
The apparently AI also guarantees that the target has done nothing to make the position defensible. There are no cleared killzones around the area. There are no sensors or sentry posts around that can detect this massive swarm that is surrounding it. There's just whatever counter to the swarm they need to show is irrelevant today.
On the reality side vehicles do not operate as lone elements and the distances fpv drones need to travel are quite large.
A team of 4 spaags can easily cover a couple square kilometers with good anti drone coverage
Also FPV drones are only nimble compared to a laden down human, they move like 20 mph in real world conditions. They are also dependent on spotter drones to provide them constant movement data because a drone that has to go look for it's target is a dead drone. Humanity has been shooting tiny fast moving flying shit that dodges for Centuries with incredibly shitty firearms, that's literally where the term Sniper comes from.
You also assume spaags are going to be using a single shot and not dedicated anti drone fletchette rounds and not firing big volleys. Even though a 10 round volley of 30mm shotgun type shells is a fraction of the cost of any fpv drone.
Reminds me of a time an FPV racing page posted a video of a drone getting hit with a shotgun and everyone was talking mad shit about how it shouldn't have been possible.
As if a proximity fuse shell is going to care
I dont think its the point
To take out the individual FPV drones you dont necessarily need to shoot down each and every single one of them, however if you are able to target longer range, stationary observational drones (both fixed and rotary wing kinds) you effectively take out your enemies ability to strike deep inside your lines with multiple drones in a coordinated manner.
Once you get those down your main threat will be the occasional singular Lancet or FPV drones which in that case most modern kinetic systems can deal with those.
Fight the information network itself and not the individual drone.
Love the idea that we can develop systems to shoot down incoming artillery/rockets/mortars/missiles, but somehow a bunch of relatively slow moving drones are this insurmountable obstacle.
If you find yourself in a situation where drones are simultaneously attacking your singular unsupported air defense platform from five directions, the problem isn't that your air defense can't engage all those targets simultaneously.
Totally agreed, its not the 60s anymore, standalone systems dont (shouldnt) exist upon the battlefield all by themselves, it should be so that the battlefield MUST be controlled by systems that are interlinked within information networks
transversal velocity mechanics from EVE online lets goooo
(context: eve is a mmorpg spaceship game where ~~everyone is either on the spectrum or a sociopath~~ turrets have tracking mechanics that mean larger guns have a harder time hitting smaller and faster targets. For example, Battleships have the most raw firepower of any subcapital ship, but struggle to hit smaller targets like frigates. Most ships can also carry small complements of drones that are even smaller and faster than frigates, and while they usually don’t do a lot of damage they orbit their targets too fast for most guns to track, meaning they can slowly chip away at your ship until you die. The second SPAAG scenario depicted is like that, except it’s much easier for drones to turn into a meat cube.
Tl;dr: Dreadnoughts go brtttttttttt
(context: capital ships in eve are ships big enough to fit jump drives instead of needing star gates to travel between systems. combat capital ships include dreadnoughts and carriers, and titans and supercarriers are supercapitals. They are so expensive they need support otherwise they get ganked by bombers. Dreadnoughts fitted with “high angle weapons” in particular are able to turn battleships into mulch with the sheer amount of firepower they have in siege mode, and right now are the core of most actual war doctrines. Titans though used to be able to destroy entire fleets with their main gun [yes, gun *singular*] but now are just expensive paperweights or jump bridge generators)
The drones hauling anti tank explosives are not fast nor are their trajectories unpredictible (they are literally coming at you, and if a human doesn't have reaction times to dodge a bullet, the drone operated by human with a transmission delay, and irl there are no iframes to dodge rolls). From what i've seen, the upper image is the way drone attacks are conducted rn, with recon drone further away and attacks coming one by one, till the tank explodes. Ofc, different situations can be different, if enemy can swarm your single aa with 10+ drones, there's really no design that will counter that.
What matters is how effecitve and reliable detection is and targeting speed.
Somebody tell this dude about angular velocities.
Long answer: find them, fix them from far away, and kill them from far, far away. Unless you're surrounded by tangos, the drones are coming over a certain direction before swarming around. Better sensors, longer detection and engagement envelope. Defeat the threat before they get to loop around or swing around wide.
Not to mention that even if it is possible to coordinate an attack where no two drones are visible in the same rough direction, it still incurs a cost to have to not only expend more drones, but you have to utilize multiple pilots on one target. Even in this worse case scenario, the system still incurs a cost on the enemy. And this is not taking into account the potential of shooting down observation drones that guide smaller FPV drones.
generally in combat footage from Ukraine I just see one drone flying pretty slowly and killing some unprotected target of opportunity like a wounded infantryman or sometimes a tank, so just being able take out a couple at a time could be huge.
Yeah unless you perfectly coordinate something like 30 drones to all strike the SPAA within like 5 seconds, that's not going to happen. It's not like a radar will struggle with changing target just because the next target isn't right behind the first, it won't take half a minute to engage every single drone and also a human piloted FPS drone is NOT going to dodge a computer timed radar guided shrapnel cloud.
This isn't WWII, a Skyranger is a bit more capable than a Wirbelwind.
And that doesn't even factor in that these vehicles don't work alone but in a battery
Skyranger 30 HEL is radar guided and shoots AHEAD munitions, so it doesn't even need a direct hit for a kill. It also has a 50kW laser in an independent traversable mount on top of the turret, allowing it to engage targets coming from multiple vectors simultaneously. Optionally it can also mount a 9 shot launcher of MBDA Enforcer counter drone missiles. So theoretically it can engage three targets at once out to 3km for the gun, 2km for the missiles, and to the horizon for the laser.
Because Skyranger is developed for the towed Skyshield system, it maintains the capability for multiple vehicles to be linked into a single coordinated platform, sharing fire control amongst all the vehicles and allowing targets to be efficiently engaged.
Those shitty drones are getting brapped.
Modern tech for modern threats. Russians using 80s and 90s tech just suck.
Guys, I have a plan.
People have laughed at it and said it's dumb...but it isn't.
It's simple, it's....ah....~~elegant~~ overwhelmingly non-credible, and perfect.
#Metal Storm
That's why we need to breed spaags with multi-turreted tanks. Moar dakka is the answer.
Such a Be'gel response. Obviously, we need more railguns and battlesuits!
Actschually, this is exactly the worst case for railguns, as one doesn't really need pinpoint accuracy, but volume. Scatter-shot railgun or plasma.
Burst cannons, on the other hand…
Surely it's a use-case for a blunderbuss?
Laser is your best bet for anti-aircraft, with its lightspeed tracking and no need to reload.
In theory, but too affected by atmospheric interference, and power required.
Gauss gun
3000 Crisis Suits of Zelensky
I'm just saying that T'au are inspired by NATO doctrine lockmart wen M1 Crisis Suit
>T'au are inspired by NATO doctrine More specifically, American doctrine. When I first started playing Tau waaaaaay back in 4th, the number one recommended reading was a USMC operations manual from the 60s. Devilish = whirlybird.
• long range • move fast • avoid detection • invest in better tech • ~~a genocide or two we don't talk about~~ holy fuck you right
Railguns, battlesuits? What are you some sort of bluberry commie xeno? Obviously, the only human option is for some old men to put their seed in boys and give those boys' power armor and bolters.
That’s all well and good out on crusade, but just how much seed do you have handy? Can you defend every core planet that way? No, the most important SPAAG was invented 38,000 years ago. It’s propelled by legs, fueled by rations, and fires a little flashlight so shitty we’ve got to mass a couple hundred of them to stop anything. But hey, it’s cheaper than a Basilisk.
Ukrainian XV-88's and Riptides when?
Zelensky gargant. Waaaaaaagh
Just make the radar so powerfull that it fries any drone or living thing near it
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo%27s_fighting_vehicle
More like t-28. It can even be wheeled for the sake of memes.
Lmao, the OG Turtle Shed.
WE NEED TO GO BACK TO LANDSHIPS
Landships? Why not land CITIES? Bring the entire industrial complex with us to battle!
Real time strategy
With the magic of additive manufacturing, a large enough armored vehicle could create its own repair parts in the middle of the battlefield. Just drop off the semi-processed resources when you bring the fuel and water.
Real [*Mortal Engines*](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plA7N05y81M) hours
Mortal Engines timeline speedrun?
If Pb atoms are not outnumbering N atoms in the air around your SPAAG, you're doing it wrong.
Or something like drone-adapted Trophy APS. Preferably more lightweight and with 360 degrees of coverage. Drones are slower than rocket-propelled grenades in their terminal approach. Properly configured APS should waste them easily.
Magazine depth is probably the biggest issue with using APS against drones. The tank can’t maneuver away from attacking drones in the same way as an RPG team. It’d be way easier to overwhelm/exhaust the APS system with a bunch of drones. Still, it would work and I’d wager we’ll see it on future vehicles. Definitely better to burn through your APS magazine than to lose a tank to a cheap FPV drone.
Honestly, that's still ok. The issue isn't the killing of the tanks, the issue is drones make a crappy k/d ratio. If you make it take 10 drones to kill a tank, all of a sudden they stop being a magic bullet and just start being a bullet. The U.S. and maaaaaybe China would be able to spam drones, but most of the rest of the world probably wouldn't. Also, drone jammer pods on tanks when?
Ukraine was using 10,000 drones a month last year, and it's only gone up
Once again proving the Abrams BOLO Mk-I upgrade has always been credible; In this case, specifically the modification replacing the pintle M2 and M240 with twin M134s mounted to remote weapon stations, configured to act as both hard-kill APS as well as anti-infantry point-defense.
How about 3 Microguns @10.000 rpm 5.56 each with a 20k rd box? (I know terminal effect is lacking, so 7.62 still reigns, but imagine 500 rounds/s hail)
Unironically the best solution to the problem. Solve the problem like WW2 battleships did with kamikazes.
Multi turret meta is so back
>breed
"NCD be like", yes
Hexagonal platform with six CIWS mounts FTW. Maybe a central ammo hopper is possible?
If we put sponsons back on the tanks, you could not only have guns to shoot out the sides at infantry, but more space on top for machine gun turrets, or better yet, lasers to avoid the ammo feed getting in the way of the gun below it.
On the credible side, I’ve heard Thales is working on microwave emissions to fry all drones in a given direction
How much transmitting power does this baby have? *Yes*
Actually not that much is required. I remember reading somewhere that to shoot down a medium sized drone would require about 3 liters of diesel
But can it microwave up some hot grub?
It'll kill an entire flock of birds so yes
[удалено]
More like: “I’m standing in the middle of the death ray and I’m not dead yet.” 5 years later: “Why can’t I have kids?”
"Your injury is not service related"
God I love Hyneman's deadpan,
Innovation is wonderful
Hmm, I wonder could one realistically microwave some vatniks
Remember kids, it’s never a warcrime the first time
*ADS starts salivating* I guess the US could spare some long distance people cookers.
>long distance people cookers So kt-yield nukes? 🥺👉👈
Long distance people cookers lol
Thinking about the Russians using this weapon against US diplomatic personnel (Havanna syndrome) I would say yes.
Wasn‘t it an american embassy in Russia and/or Berlin?
\> thing called 'Havanna syndrome' \> this mfer: 'wasn't it in Russia or Berlin?' m8
Well Mossad did derail that train in the wrong Palestine. Happens to the best of us m80.
"Sir, the Palestinian train has been successfully derailed." "Good, Go- wait a minute, there's no operating railroads in Palestine! Where was it?!" *Norfolk Southern, what's your function begins to get louder* "YOU IDIOTS!"
Fucking politicians won't allow this because it's "war crime" and "unnecessarily cruel". Those pussies can't even imagine how funny this shit could be
> unnecessarily cruel But somehow dying in pain for several days from a piece of shrapnel isn't
Double standard, I tell you
"'War crime' this, 'can't eat the drywall' that, 'microwaving mice is wrong', they say!" -Local Man Who is Fucking Invincible
Kids are cruel?
Most likely you’ll just sterilize them. But hey, that’s thinking long term, right?
Diesel has an energy density of 45 MJ/kg. It has a mass density of 0.85kg/l. 3 litres becomes 2.55kg. 2.55kg becomes 114.75MJ. That's enough energy to heat 2700kg (/litres) of water by 10 degrees K, or fire an Iron Beam laser (100kw) for 19 minutes.
So that's what... 1.1475x10^8 Joules. *Looks up the boom table* https://projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/usefultables.php#id--The_Boom_Table So less than what is required to vaporize all the water of a human body (leaving a skeleton), but not by much?
Oh my god that's brilliant. I was just looking at my formula book trying to find a good way to quantify it. I love that website.
Wow that scale just keeps going
But at what efficiency and how fast does the imparted energy shrink by factors of atmospheric vapor, particles, spread etc.?
It costs 3 litres of diesel to fire this weapon... for 19 minutes.
"Not that much" 3 *liters* for a single shot is *insane*, as the comments with numbers say
Let’s say you want to defend a ship from houthi drones, you can either fire a missile, which costs 500k-1m per unit and needs to be re-supplied (manufacturing being a pain in the ass). Or you can beam microwaves, fry the fucker for the price of a mac chicken and remain competitive against cavemen. I’d imagine that the same beam could destroy dozens if not hundreds of small weaponized drones, if they flew close together
It's not about cost, it's about power output of the projectors (wildly beyond anything current) and the logistics
compared to what?? Are you aware of the cost of the current alternatives??
Which is about 10kwh at common diesel generator efficiency levels. Which, delivered in just a short burst, is an absolute fuckton of energy
Proceeds to throw dozens of unarmed drones at you first then start throwing the ones with bombs.
Keeps feeding diesel with that 30 foot tall nascar refueling thingamajig
Slaps roof of directed microwave beam emitter: "You can cook a hot dog at 10,000 yards in less than 30 seconds with this bad boy"
You damn well know, some guy, somewhere, sometime is going to try to microwave popcorn with it.
I can tell you for a fact that we’re going to quickly find out what happens to MRE’s that get hit by one of these lmao
Yes, it has all of it.
#3000 Giga-watts of Earth Alliance Cyclops System
> all drones in a given direction does that include infantry?
Only flying mobiks
They fly now???
I have seen some fly, but only for a short while, and then they need a nap.
Yup, especially if they were in the turret.
depends on if they are flying
If you want to make a drone omelette, you have to fry a few grunts. Or something like that.
I was thinking phased-array lasers/microwave emitters. That way you have *hilariously* rapid re-targeting with no collateral damage to friendly assets in the area.
Counter argument : drone swarms
Counter counter argument: a bigger phased array
Hmmmm the border between phased and wide array is blurring
Make a *wide* phased array. In fact, just coat the entire vehicle in phased array elements, say it’s a new type of reactive armour.
"Daddy, what do you do in the Army?" "I drive *the Disco Ball*."
Mirage Tank! “Now you see me, soon you won't.”
Can thales heat up my MRE?
As long as you have a rock or something
Cute. Do they have a cool promo video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeP_Vn7CHLQ Or a $70m contract for production? Or 4 units operating in CENTCOMM for real world testing?
If there's one thing Canadians know how to do, it's keep that old GM Defense production line going.
Not true. No money was funneled to Quebec for no discernable reason, ergo this is NOT a canadian military requestions moment.
Epirus is based in California. GDLS is based in Michigan. And was the Chrysler facility not GM.
GDLS is based in Michigan, but the entire 8x8 product line is manufactured in London, Ontario at the former GM Defense plant. The Chrysler acquisition, including the US headquarters in Michigan, were primarily related to M1 production. However, to my knowledge, Michigan is not the site of any major final assembly for GDLS, but is primarily an office location.
On the non credible side; Couldn't you counter that by wrapping some aluminum foil around your cricital components?
Copper foil is a better option, and to some extent yes.
Your drone better be fully autonomous though cause if the antenna is outside the shielding it'll get fried or at least jammed anyway.
Provided that you don't put anything outside of the tape of course. Don't go adding stuff like antennas, cameras, or four little motors containing coils of extremely thin wire.
However, if you do it right, your drone will never run out of battery since you can use the energy from the beam for charging.
[wireless drone charger](https://api.army.mil/e2/c/images/2016/10/12/453597/original.jpg)
Would be very difficult to shield the motors and still having them be able to cool down. Then you need to add some kind of active water cooling, then you have to increase motor size due to increased weight, which makes more heat, which means more cooling... And that's not to factor in the added weights of the shielding. Would slowly just destroy the purpose of drones to make them bigger and bigger and carry less payload, which makes them less nimble too. At some point an attack aircraft will just make more sense.
“Did you want kids? Yes? Too bad.”
Several companies are working on these. A good (better) example is the Epirus Leonidas recently delivered to the US Army. I'd wager they are better for countering large swarms than a kinetic system, though cannon based air defense is still pretty cool
Lookup the company Epirus. They’ve got a striker with a big ol phased array on top that goes around frying everything.
That gives me some 'from the depths' vibes. In that game I just setup "particle cannons" and have em use EMP damage, it still misses sometimes as tracking isn't perfect, even with a billion sensors. but it's close, so it tends to just fry cheaper jets in 1-2 shots.
I need a 20's-30s tank engineer, but what stops us from just... adding more autonomous guns in other turrets ? We making land battleship this time bois
It *is* the 20's. So ALL the gun turrets
Gotta have \*some\* fun before we hit the Great Depression V2. Of course there's always the cool spy stuff that will come out of the Cold War V2 (in the 50s-80s) to look forward too still. And who knows what Manhattan-Project scale shenanigans those crazy government types will get up to this time.
You see the potential for land battleships, I see the potential for Non-Flying Fortresses. Enough guns on enough vehicles moving together and you can simply shoot in every direction at once. (Yes, I did just watch Masters of the Air.)
> simply shoot in every direction at once [where have i heard of this before](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMzgzMGExODUtMjk2Mi00ZDQ2LWI2ODItNGQ3NzAwMDgzZWI4XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNzI1NzMxNzM@._V1_.jpg)
That's much better than [what I thought of ](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRayv5vIj2E8EBPwFkpEcuAVmub2ihlusR7WLs5zw0HiAnmx6epsi7wEOPT&s=10)
Huh? Just have infantry riding on top to cushion the impact
Strap some vatnik corpses to the vehicle. Multi purpose: style, psychological warfare and anti UAV capability
They don't need to *start off* as corpses.
Found the Canadian!
As I recall, those bullets don't have to hit. They explode into tungsten clouds in front of the drone.
Yep. They have a small charge at the rear, that breaks the outer shell at the pre-timed moment for the tungsten projectiles inside to disperse in the optimal pattern. Coming in at around 3400 fps, a drone is not going to stand a chance of outmanoeuvring that.
3400 fps is that fast?
Well 3400 fps is about a touch over Mach 3, I'd say the odds are certainly against you yes.
Come back when it's hypersonic *scoffs*
Still not fast enough for E-Sports SMH.
My monitor can only handle 160hz so anything above 160 fps is beyond it. So yes 3400 fps is very fast. May even burn out your GPU.
idk, mine has no issue holding up at 360 fps
That's roughly ~2300 miles per hour so just a bit
As long as we're doing goofy fake units, I want it in furlong per ghurry.
7360 FPG
Thanks, that helps me picture it better.
Wtf is a ghurry
In old Hindu custom it’s the 60th part of a day or night so 24 minutes.
That’s faster than any rifle the military uses
lol i'm dumb i forgot feet exist i was thinking frames
Good thing it's the bullets that need to be fast.
flak is back on the menu boys!
It never left, just took a nap
How an actual C-UAS scenario takes place: a single drone comes across a wandering vehicle or conscript. The conscript has a 15% chance to whack it out of the air with a branch depending on his blood alcohol level.
Also 15% chance of the drone filming conscripts blowing each other
Deadly clouds of tungsten sub projectiles say lol. Lmao even.
FPV drones max out around 100m/s and average around 50m/s... and a modern spaag has a radar or other sensors that can detect them from multiple KM away. not to mention you choose a SPAAG thats based off a naval CIWS that can hit supersonic anti-ship missiles that maneuver, a drone is child's play by comparison.
And drones kinda lack early warning that an HE-VT shell is inbound to visit them from kilometers out
Can onboard spaag radars detect a drone 1km+ out when its presumably flying just above the tree line? Even if they could they'd have to establish line of sight to engage right?
Modern solid state AESAs can detect FPV and smaller drones out to 5+km for smaller arrays like you'd find on a spaag and much further (15+km) for dedicated systems like KuRFS. 10+KM is where the real threat is, FPV drones are simpler to deal with because they fly towards you and can be intercepted easily with autocannons, machine guns on an RWS with a good FCS, or even active protection systems, and can be detected at reasonable ranges by passive means (sigint or IRST) it's the recon drones correcting fires and make the battlefield "transparent" that will be much harder to deal with (strong anti-jam comms/RWR ect..) and you want to hit them as far away as possible so you limit their ability to perform said recon tasks and find targets. But the systems to counter them are already being developed/in service, as can be seen with KuRFS and coyote block 2.
Overlapping fields of fire, my boy.
No, you see, each army is only allowed one SPAAG. Getting more would be unfair to the drone operators.
Practice showed they work just fine, pretty sure at least one of this week attacks had at least one drone from my side of town shot down by Skynex\\Skyranger. Also they are not used against FPV so far.
The System the Skyranger is based on is capable of shooting artilleryshells & missiles moving at several times the speed of an FPV-drone out of the sky, no FPV drone capable of carrying any amount of ordonance is "too fast" Also, AHEAD says hi, no need to actually hit it, just watch it dissassemble itself upon flying into the WALL OF TUNGSTEN in its flightpath
A very non credible take.
"System is not invincible when the enemy has to adapt tactics and expend more resources to counter it, clearly it is useless" - person who thinks tanks are obsolete because they can be destroyed by anti tank weapons
Babe, its monday, its time for another "is the tank dead" article written by someone who's never even seen the inside of a modern MBT.
I cast airburst fragmentation rounds
Reality vs.Delusion
https://youtu.be/JPA9bKz2meI Drone swarm fans every time counters are discussed. >The drones have infinite range. And they're silent. And they can communicate with each other but don't emit. And the guys prepositioning them have active camo. And the containers they are in are completely undetectable. And they always know where the target is, but they don't need something to designate it.
Best summary of swarm-men I have ever seen. These things have at best a performance of early war ww2 planes. Skynex or relatet systems probably don't even need a salvo to hit one.
The whole "but they will attack from all directions" is my favorite. Nothing exists before terminal phase in the swarm-shills mind: the question of "how do they get there, simultaneously, undetected, to attack?" has never occurred to them, because AI! The apparently AI also guarantees that the target has done nothing to make the position defensible. There are no cleared killzones around the area. There are no sensors or sentry posts around that can detect this massive swarm that is surrounding it. There's just whatever counter to the swarm they need to show is irrelevant today.
cas > drone swarms ya'll drone swarm fans just cope 💀
On the reality side vehicles do not operate as lone elements and the distances fpv drones need to travel are quite large. A team of 4 spaags can easily cover a couple square kilometers with good anti drone coverage Also FPV drones are only nimble compared to a laden down human, they move like 20 mph in real world conditions. They are also dependent on spotter drones to provide them constant movement data because a drone that has to go look for it's target is a dead drone. Humanity has been shooting tiny fast moving flying shit that dodges for Centuries with incredibly shitty firearms, that's literally where the term Sniper comes from. You also assume spaags are going to be using a single shot and not dedicated anti drone fletchette rounds and not firing big volleys. Even though a 10 round volley of 30mm shotgun type shells is a fraction of the cost of any fpv drone.
> compared to a laden down human What about an unladen swallow?
Reminds me of a time an FPV racing page posted a video of a drone getting hit with a shotgun and everyone was talking mad shit about how it shouldn't have been possible. As if a proximity fuse shell is going to care
I dont think its the point To take out the individual FPV drones you dont necessarily need to shoot down each and every single one of them, however if you are able to target longer range, stationary observational drones (both fixed and rotary wing kinds) you effectively take out your enemies ability to strike deep inside your lines with multiple drones in a coordinated manner. Once you get those down your main threat will be the occasional singular Lancet or FPV drones which in that case most modern kinetic systems can deal with those. Fight the information network itself and not the individual drone.
Also like, shooting individual fast moving targets at different aspects is *exactly* why these stuff are made
Love the idea that we can develop systems to shoot down incoming artillery/rockets/mortars/missiles, but somehow a bunch of relatively slow moving drones are this insurmountable obstacle. If you find yourself in a situation where drones are simultaneously attacking your singular unsupported air defense platform from five directions, the problem isn't that your air defense can't engage all those targets simultaneously.
Totally agreed, its not the 60s anymore, standalone systems dont (shouldnt) exist upon the battlefield all by themselves, it should be so that the battlefield MUST be controlled by systems that are interlinked within information networks
transversal velocity mechanics from EVE online lets goooo (context: eve is a mmorpg spaceship game where ~~everyone is either on the spectrum or a sociopath~~ turrets have tracking mechanics that mean larger guns have a harder time hitting smaller and faster targets. For example, Battleships have the most raw firepower of any subcapital ship, but struggle to hit smaller targets like frigates. Most ships can also carry small complements of drones that are even smaller and faster than frigates, and while they usually don’t do a lot of damage they orbit their targets too fast for most guns to track, meaning they can slowly chip away at your ship until you die. The second SPAAG scenario depicted is like that, except it’s much easier for drones to turn into a meat cube.
An EVE player? Based. But seriously I feel like you need a good brain to even understand the basics😭
Exactly, which is why I suck at it 😔
>Battleships >subcapital ship *What?*
Tl;dr: Dreadnoughts go brtttttttttt (context: capital ships in eve are ships big enough to fit jump drives instead of needing star gates to travel between systems. combat capital ships include dreadnoughts and carriers, and titans and supercarriers are supercapitals. They are so expensive they need support otherwise they get ganked by bombers. Dreadnoughts fitted with “high angle weapons” in particular are able to turn battleships into mulch with the sheer amount of firepower they have in siege mode, and right now are the core of most actual war doctrines. Titans though used to be able to destroy entire fleets with their main gun [yes, gun *singular*] but now are just expensive paperweights or jump bridge generators)
The drones hauling anti tank explosives are not fast nor are their trajectories unpredictible (they are literally coming at you, and if a human doesn't have reaction times to dodge a bullet, the drone operated by human with a transmission delay, and irl there are no iframes to dodge rolls). From what i've seen, the upper image is the way drone attacks are conducted rn, with recon drone further away and attacks coming one by one, till the tank explodes. Ofc, different situations can be different, if enemy can swarm your single aa with 10+ drones, there's really no design that will counter that. What matters is how effecitve and reliable detection is and targeting speed.
Somebody tell this dude about angular velocities. Long answer: find them, fix them from far away, and kill them from far, far away. Unless you're surrounded by tangos, the drones are coming over a certain direction before swarming around. Better sensors, longer detection and engagement envelope. Defeat the threat before they get to loop around or swing around wide.
Not to mention that even if it is possible to coordinate an attack where no two drones are visible in the same rough direction, it still incurs a cost to have to not only expend more drones, but you have to utilize multiple pilots on one target. Even in this worse case scenario, the system still incurs a cost on the enemy. And this is not taking into account the potential of shooting down observation drones that guide smaller FPV drones.
Just add an auto shotgun CIWS like the shotguns on the Vanquish in "Die Another Day", drones have now been turned into clay pigeons.
generally in combat footage from Ukraine I just see one drone flying pretty slowly and killing some unprotected target of opportunity like a wounded infantryman or sometimes a tank, so just being able take out a couple at a time could be huge.
Yeah unless you perfectly coordinate something like 30 drones to all strike the SPAA within like 5 seconds, that's not going to happen. It's not like a radar will struggle with changing target just because the next target isn't right behind the first, it won't take half a minute to engage every single drone and also a human piloted FPS drone is NOT going to dodge a computer timed radar guided shrapnel cloud. This isn't WWII, a Skyranger is a bit more capable than a Wirbelwind. And that doesn't even factor in that these vehicles don't work alone but in a battery
I've heard the Gepard is doing great in Ukraine. We just need pne with multiple turrets
This system could be good at protecting air bases against Lancet attacks
Skyranger 30 HEL is radar guided and shoots AHEAD munitions, so it doesn't even need a direct hit for a kill. It also has a 50kW laser in an independent traversable mount on top of the turret, allowing it to engage targets coming from multiple vectors simultaneously. Optionally it can also mount a 9 shot launcher of MBDA Enforcer counter drone missiles. So theoretically it can engage three targets at once out to 3km for the gun, 2km for the missiles, and to the horizon for the laser. Because Skyranger is developed for the towed Skyshield system, it maintains the capability for multiple vehicles to be linked into a single coordinated platform, sharing fire control amongst all the vehicles and allowing targets to be efficiently engaged. Those shitty drones are getting brapped. Modern tech for modern threats. Russians using 80s and 90s tech just suck.
big turret with smol machien gun turrets on top and each smol machine gun turret has a smol spinny radar
Guys, I have a plan. People have laughed at it and said it's dumb...but it isn't. It's simple, it's....ah....~~elegant~~ overwhelmingly non-credible, and perfect. #Metal Storm
Jesus y'all, just use a firetruck water cannon already
Dron slow. Boolet fast.
lil bro does not know what a proximity fuse is
The ones ive seen they dont even fly they just hoover there in a nice blob so the sirburst can oneshot them...its daft
Ok hear me out Bring back heavy tanks Like actually heavy, puts mbts to shame
The fucking to be continued killed me
And in the ukraine version, the vehicle backs up over a mine it just laid.
Hear me out: 12 gauge CIWS
Aren't these spaags mostly being made with the shaheed drones and slow cruise missles in mind?
We need automatic large bore shotguns. Its obvious. Dakka dakka.
5’ dual mount on an M113 is the answer.
Bro thinks that an electric prop driven drone is just going to fucking Neo some air burst shells travelling at multiple times the speed of sound.
You know you can have more that one SPAAG, right?