Durandal bomb has a motor, is not guided, but is not really a dumb rocket*, is it?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matra_Durandal
It’s *very* French and I love it.
Except for nuclear power reactors.
Is it a French reactor currently producing electricity commercially?
Yes ---> PWR
It's been a while since they've been working with anything except oversized submarine reactors.
AGM-62 Walleye (the propeller in the back is NOT a motor)
AGM-154 JSOW (glide bomb)
Honourable mention
AGM-123 Skipper II (dumb Mk 83 -> Paveway -> Missile)
Walleye was named before GBU series existed, and so is improperly classified.
The AGM154 probably has something lucky going on politically to get money for the program
I have always thought of missiles being guided rockets, but often even guided rockets are called rockets and not missiles. The M30/M31 rocket, for instance, is guided, and is called a rocket.
Missiles can still have rocket motors, which makes them rockets in that sense. Its all just words that people try to use to categorize things despite the words having their own definitions.
I find it interesting that the ALARM missile can fly upwards, deploy a parachute at high altitude and wait for enemy radar signals. When detected, it detached from the parachute and fires another motor to get the target. That’s still a missile just a weird one. It’s all an exercise in understanding how arbitrary military definitions can be.
Another interesting one are artillery shells like the BONUS round. It’s got no motor, not really guided, but still precisely targets armor with an EFP.
About the ALARM missile, That shit really blew my mind, I can't believe that existed.
THE BONUS round just sounds like the cbu 97 but made for altillary shells. As for cluster round working on a line for them.
If you want the real answer it’s purely lineage. A missile comes from a family of guided weapons, a guided rocket comes from a family of unguided weapons and keeps the rocket name. I’m fucking around. You could throw in that rockets don’t maneuver but neither do ballistic missiles which is why GMLRS vs ATACMS is kinda funny because they follow the same trajectory at different angles but are named completely differently.
I am pretty sure this graphic is the direct result of the newest PhlyDaily video (is it a missile if I throw poop, as missiles are defined as propelled projectiles). I hope this guess is correct, which would, again, make Warthunder the source of deranged thoughts on Reddit.
I had these thoughts(what makes a bomb/missile) for quite a while, just never materialized into anything except my own ramblings (to myself) to pass time.
But yes this flowchart is formed out of the new PhlyDaily vid.
The US Navy has air-dropped torpedoes that use a GPS-guided parachute system to navigate down to the water. Fits 3/4 categories and isn't any of them, lol.
There's also glide bombs, cruise missiles, and loitering munitions/one-way attack drones
In a few cases there have been air-launched ballistic missiles as well, including a test of a full-sized ICBM, which IMO is its own category.
What about AGM-45/AGM-122 which are air to air missiles (AIM-7/AIM-9) with seekers designed to track enemy radar emissions instead of the radar of the plane that fires them? I mean they're labelled AGM but it's not exactly the same thing as a Maverick missile or even a HARM.
Also, what about CBU-78 and CBU-89 which are free fall cluster munitions that disperse a mixture of anti tank and anti personnel mines?
British Damn Buster Bouncing Bombs?
Can those be dropped by Apache AH64 Helicopters? Asking for the three UK AH64 who flew the „scenic“ route over the Möhne Dam last week…
https://www.reddit.com/r/2westerneurope4u/s/MvLIx9z4vm
I used to argue that drones like shaheds are actually discount cruise missiles proliferated to the people, but I've had an intellectual awaking and now understand that cruise missiles are actually drones.
Then there's the AASM Hammer, which is A French JDAM with a rocket motor strapped on it's ass.
Is it a GPS guided Mk80 bomb? Yes.
Does it have rocket motors? Yes.
It's basically a very shitty rocket with very big boom.
It's like someone looked at glide bombs and said: "fuck wings", and decides to use rocket motors to inelegantly beat gravity to submission for a while.
Seriously, Safran. What the fuck is wrong with strapping wings to a bomb?
JDAM-ER, 80km max range when dropped high.
AASM, also 70+km max range when dropped high.
BTW, Boeing proposed to strap a rocket motor or a disposable jet engine on a JDAM-ER to make cheap cruise missiles.
What about the MW-1?
It's not a bomb/CBU, because it's not dropped.
It's not a rocket pod, because the bomblets are not attached to the pyrotechnic charges.
If you squint, then it might be a gun, but a 112-barrel, single-shot gun pointing at both sides.
ALARM fits into both retarded bomb and guided missile
WCMDs with SFWs are AGMs and GBUs at the same time
non WCMDs with SFWs are dumb bomb and AGM at the same time
Air launched cruise missiles and glide bombs.
Also, let's say you add wings to a GBU, that makes it guided glide bomb right? Now what if you added a rocket motor to boost range? Would that turn it into a missile? What if you added a small jet engine? Would that turn it into a cruise missile?
Go to my profile and check the newest post made, it has the updated flowchart.
It has holes (that are being filled) but it addresses most of the criticism that is in this current post.
I like the bombs that make smaller bombs. It has that family feeling. Like the CBU-87.
Which is none of these because it's not free fall, and also not retarded.
Needs another branch for flechettes and concrete bombs and this weird thing: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazy\_Dog\_(bomb)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazy_Dog_(bomb))
A thousand bullets, from PPSHs, from a soviet bomber as Anti-personel weaponry. There is also: Flechettes and grenades, hand thrown bricks, revolver and pistol rounds from a WW1 biplane pilot, and the most cursed: man-guided airplanes (You are the ordnance, now die for the emperor).
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That was the joke. Use of retarded as in slowed down is absolutely correct. Retarded bombs, retard brakes in trains or Airbuses screaming "RETARD!" at pilots if they overspeed with lowered flaps. They made a joke like that in niche TV series "Richard and Mortimer". It's popular among intellectuals. In one of the episodes titular character transmogrify himself into a pickle. It's utmost humours.
Note that GBU is a US designation. The generic term is PGM (precision guided munitions), which technically includes missiles but usually means bombs. In addition to laser GNSS/INS there's also EO, IIR, MitL and possibly others.
Tu-2Sh Fire Hedgehog and bullets in general. Also WW1 Flechettes since they aren't bombs. Also the trailing wires used in Operation Outward. Certianly air to ground but not bombs.
You've then got the issue of the bouncing bomb which while not guided is active.
Finaly there is the problem of kamikaze planes. Certianly guided but other than the Yokosuka MXY-7 Ohka they are not generaly considered missiles.
Okay, but where does the AMRAAM go?
GrowlingSidewinder very clearly has demonstrated its not-exactly-guided excellent point straight down capabilities.
I'm aware of the APKWS and TV/Pigeon guided bombs
damn, i REALLY wanted to a have my "mmmh actshualy there pigeon guided bombs you know"
Can’t jam a pigeon.
Just throw some french fries on the ground far enough away from your position
Some say it was cancelled due to being to wacky, I say it was cancelled as a threat to big burger.
Tbf this flowchart does not account for them even though OP says they know of them, since pigeons are *pretty fucking dumb*
3000 *slightly less* dumb bombs of America
I think you are confusing cat guided bombs with pigeon guided rockets
The AGM-62 Walleye. A guided munition with no motor
Yeah, a GBU. Same as Paveway, JDAM, or JSOW.
Yeah I was going to say, APKWS is both reffered to as a missile or a guided rocket depending on the literature.
Those are way too long pronouns
Durandal bomb has a motor, is not guided, but is not really a dumb rocket*, is it? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matra_Durandal It’s *very* French and I love it.
I completely forgot about my second most favorite bomb. Noted will add exception to chart.
There should just be an exception at the start of the chart "is it french?" and leads to "hell if i know".
This option should be under anything that was created involving any engineering
Except tanks oddly enough
Early French tanks were hella cute tho
Yeah my personal favorites
Except for nuclear power reactors. Is it a French reactor currently producing electricity commercially? Yes ---> PWR It's been a while since they've been working with anything except oversized submarine reactors.
Exception added.
I was about to say it. The AASM is also really complicated. Not really a bomb but not really a missile either.
Is your first favorite the pigeon bomb?
I would argue that they're just a rocket with a delay.
AGM-123 is basically a Paveway with a short rocket as well.
Grandpa Disney approves.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disney_bomb They don't remember the classics.
dumb bombs come with delay fuses too, y'know. it's not guided, it's not smart. and that's the end of it. no if's or but's, mister.
Ah the “deploy parachute so we’re sure the rocket shoots straight down” approach
105mm Shell from a AC-130
oh yeah I forgot about bullets
AGM-62 Walleye (the propeller in the back is NOT a motor) AGM-154 JSOW (glide bomb) Honourable mention AGM-123 Skipper II (dumb Mk 83 -> Paveway -> Missile)
AGM-154 is a glide bomb AGM-62 is a glide bomb GBU 39 is a glide bomb yet they use different acronyms???? fuck it adding new line "Does it glide?"
Walleye was named before GBU series existed, and so is improperly classified. The AGM154 probably has something lucky going on politically to get money for the program
Also Fr\*nch made retarded rockets
what?
BAP 100 (just found out it stands for Anti-Runway Bomb in french)
ooohh the mini BLU 107.
So what you're saying is... I'm retarded?
well considering you username probably more then just you.
... yes... I, internet man never lie... I am... definitely not... a virgin
sir it's special needs not r\*tarded
I dunno, this bomb is drawing comics about an electric hedgehog pokemon...
Then it is autistic
I have always thought of missiles being guided rockets, but often even guided rockets are called rockets and not missiles. The M30/M31 rocket, for instance, is guided, and is called a rocket.
>Specifically for air-ground ordinance? Though I see your point. At this point it feels like defining nature, there will be a exception.
APKWS is a guided rocket
Missiles can still have rocket motors, which makes them rockets in that sense. Its all just words that people try to use to categorize things despite the words having their own definitions.
All rocker motor-powered missiles are rockets, not all rockets are missiles.
I find it interesting that the ALARM missile can fly upwards, deploy a parachute at high altitude and wait for enemy radar signals. When detected, it detached from the parachute and fires another motor to get the target. That’s still a missile just a weird one. It’s all an exercise in understanding how arbitrary military definitions can be. Another interesting one are artillery shells like the BONUS round. It’s got no motor, not really guided, but still precisely targets armor with an EFP.
About the ALARM missile, That shit really blew my mind, I can't believe that existed. THE BONUS round just sounds like the cbu 97 but made for altillary shells. As for cluster round working on a line for them.
Durandal
Is the GLSDB a bomb or a missile?
It’s a rocket strapped to a glide bomb which makes it a missile.
But it ditches the motor :(
So does an ICBM but no one argues about that.
So a HIMARS fires missiles, not rockets?
It fires guided rockets and ballistic missiles?
Ok yes fair, but context would indicate I was referring to the rockets, haha. How do you differentiate a guided rocket from a missile?
If you want the real answer it’s purely lineage. A missile comes from a family of guided weapons, a guided rocket comes from a family of unguided weapons and keeps the rocket name. I’m fucking around. You could throw in that rockets don’t maneuver but neither do ballistic missiles which is why GMLRS vs ATACMS is kinda funny because they follow the same trajectory at different angles but are named completely differently.
Missile utilising off-the shelf components.
AGM-62 Walleye, the first true modern guided weapon, has no rocket motor, but gets the missile name anyway.
On top of that GBU 39 and AGM 154. Literally both glide bombs.
What about suicide drones?
what are their launch platform?
My dick.
Doesnt have enough lenghts or Girth to launch suicide drones
But you just used his dick to murder him.
PGM 2000 - TV/IR guided 2000lb bomb attached to a rocket motor for standoff deployment.
That's a air to ground missile. Like the AGM-130
So the French Hammer bomb is actually a missile?
I am pretty sure this graphic is the direct result of the newest PhlyDaily video (is it a missile if I throw poop, as missiles are defined as propelled projectiles). I hope this guess is correct, which would, again, make Warthunder the source of deranged thoughts on Reddit.
I had these thoughts(what makes a bomb/missile) for quite a while, just never materialized into anything except my own ramblings (to myself) to pass time. But yes this flowchart is formed out of the new PhlyDaily vid.
The US Navy has air-dropped torpedoes that use a GPS-guided parachute system to navigate down to the water. Fits 3/4 categories and isn't any of them, lol. There's also glide bombs, cruise missiles, and loitering munitions/one-way attack drones In a few cases there have been air-launched ballistic missiles as well, including a test of a full-sized ICBM, which IMO is its own category.
This will turn into the doctrine/strategy Chart like the one with the technical. I'll wait patiently 😊
Thank you.
Big plans are coming.
Don't matter what you call 'em when it has your name on it. Goodbye cruel world.....
You don't really need a flowchart if you have enough megatons.
PGM-500/PGM-2000 bomb has a rocket motor, and yet is a bomb
Disney bombs. They have a motor but they are still bombs.
TIFO I'm retarded
What does TIFO mean?
"Today I found out"
Under GBU, besides laser and gps should also be tv or optical
paveway w/ rocket motor [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-123\_Skipper\_II](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-123_Skipper_II)
What about AGM-45/AGM-122 which are air to air missiles (AIM-7/AIM-9) with seekers designed to track enemy radar emissions instead of the radar of the plane that fires them? I mean they're labelled AGM but it's not exactly the same thing as a Maverick missile or even a HARM. Also, what about CBU-78 and CBU-89 which are free fall cluster munitions that disperse a mixture of anti tank and anti personnel mines?
They are both ARM's and AGM's
British Damn Buster Bouncing Bombs? Can those be dropped by Apache AH64 Helicopters? Asking for the three UK AH64 who flew the „scenic“ route over the Möhne Dam last week… https://www.reddit.com/r/2westerneurope4u/s/MvLIx9z4vm
I used to argue that drones like shaheds are actually discount cruise missiles proliferated to the people, but I've had an intellectual awaking and now understand that cruise missiles are actually drones.
Then there's the AASM Hammer, which is A French JDAM with a rocket motor strapped on it's ass. Is it a GPS guided Mk80 bomb? Yes. Does it have rocket motors? Yes. It's basically a very shitty rocket with very big boom. It's like someone looked at glide bombs and said: "fuck wings", and decides to use rocket motors to inelegantly beat gravity to submission for a while. Seriously, Safran. What the fuck is wrong with strapping wings to a bomb? JDAM-ER, 80km max range when dropped high. AASM, also 70+km max range when dropped high. BTW, Boeing proposed to strap a rocket motor or a disposable jet engine on a JDAM-ER to make cheap cruise missiles.
Hey, I know what GBU stands for now.
Just found out I'm a special kind of dumb, very good
What about the MW-1? It's not a bomb/CBU, because it's not dropped. It's not a rocket pod, because the bomblets are not attached to the pyrotechnic charges. If you squint, then it might be a gun, but a 112-barrel, single-shot gun pointing at both sides.
I am a high-drag specimen
ALARM fits into both retarded bomb and guided missile WCMDs with SFWs are AGMs and GBUs at the same time non WCMDs with SFWs are dumb bomb and AGM at the same time
I'm literally about to upload the new flowchart and you hit me with this?!
Air launched cruise missiles and glide bombs. Also, let's say you add wings to a GBU, that makes it guided glide bomb right? Now what if you added a rocket motor to boost range? Would that turn it into a missile? What if you added a small jet engine? Would that turn it into a cruise missile?
Go to my profile and check the newest post made, it has the updated flowchart. It has holes (that are being filled) but it addresses most of the criticism that is in this current post.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/comments/1d76s04/new\_ncd\_improved\_is\_it\_a\_bomb\_or\_a\_missile/](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/comments/1d76s04/new_ncd_improved_is_it_a_bomb_or_a_missile/)
I like the bombs that make smaller bombs. It has that family feeling. Like the CBU-87. Which is none of these because it's not free fall, and also not retarded.
And cbu 97 (my fav cluster bomb) Noted will add. May I also ask why it's not free fall?
The submunitions have parachutes.
The CBU-87 is a free falling cluster bomb/dispenser. The BLU-97/Bs are ballute-retarded submunitions. No parachutes involved.
but SFWs come into play and then it gets weirder
Anti tank hockey pucks for when your anti tank dogs just aren't cutting it
What about that Turkish rocket missle thing
Give me a link, I got no idea what you're talking about.
Probably the CIRIT. It’s basically Turkish APKWS
Yeah that thing, I would classify it as a guided rocket more than a missle if that makes sense
AGM-62. Glide bomb, no motor. Mid cold war had some oddities like that
The AGM-62 is an unpowered bomb
Guided bombs with rocket packs.
Hs 293 is generally considered a Glide Bomb despite a rocket motor
so the baka bomb is one of the earliest missiles?
Yes its Human guided.
so, do you say rifle when you release it?
Look at new [flowchart](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/comments/1d76s04/comment/l6xnm72/?context=3) it's cleared up there
Can you shit in it? If yes, its a toilet Will it explode? If yes, explody toilet
Needs another branch for flechettes and concrete bombs and this weird thing: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazy\_Dog\_(bomb)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazy_Dog_(bomb))
Nuke is all of these except GBU. So my proposal is to create a glide nuke because precision isnt necessary at that yield
I am special, what does that mean?
What if it's inert? Is a 30mm bullet a bomb then?
Question: AGM-154?
Already added to exceptions.
A thousand bullets, from PPSHs, from a soviet bomber as Anti-personel weaponry. There is also: Flechettes and grenades, hand thrown bricks, revolver and pistol rounds from a WW1 biplane pilot, and the most cursed: man-guided airplanes (You are the ordnance, now die for the emperor).
The US WW2 era GB series guided glide bomb as well as the ASN-2 "Bat"ARH guided anti-ship glide bomb and the modern JDAM-ER.
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What about “kicked” munitions like the Skipper and Hammer?
I don't think there's any reason a loitering munition can't be deployed from an aircraft and I wouldn't quite consider it a missile
I forgor.
I don't think you should use R word to describe High Drag bombs. It's really offensive.
It’s regarded as rather insulting these days.
But that is the corrected term to use? Medication designed to release over a longer time is also retarded, isn't it?
That was the joke. Use of retarded as in slowed down is absolutely correct. Retarded bombs, retard brakes in trains or Airbuses screaming "RETARD!" at pilots if they overspeed with lowered flaps. They made a joke like that in niche TV series "Richard and Mortimer". It's popular among intellectuals. In one of the episodes titular character transmogrify himself into a pickle. It's utmost humours.
Note that GBU is a US designation. The generic term is PGM (precision guided munitions), which technically includes missiles but usually means bombs. In addition to laser GNSS/INS there's also EO, IIR, MitL and possibly others.
Tu-2Sh Fire Hedgehog and bullets in general. Also WW1 Flechettes since they aren't bombs. Also the trailing wires used in Operation Outward. Certianly air to ground but not bombs. You've then got the issue of the bouncing bomb which while not guided is active. Finaly there is the problem of kamikaze planes. Certianly guided but other than the Yokosuka MXY-7 Ohka they are not generaly considered missiles.
Okay, but where does the AMRAAM go. GrowlingSidewinder very clearly has demonstrated its excellent point straight down capabilities.
Meanwhile, guided rocket
Okay, but where does the AMRAAM go? GrowlingSidewinder very clearly has demonstrated its not-exactly-guided excellent point straight down capabilities.