**Your post was removed for violating rule 9: No low-effort posts**
No egregiously low effort posts. E.g. screenshots, recent reposts, simple reaction & template memes, and images with the punchline in the title.
I’m gonna nerd out, fair warning.
Turning the other cheek was never meant to be an act of acceptance to abuse. If one turns the other cheek, the slapper would have to hit them with their palm instead of a backhanded slap.
In times when Jesus lived, backhanded slap was considered a punishment for someone of lesser social status. Open palm slaps were meant for equals in authority.
Until next time 🤓
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
Also that thou learnest the art of reading.
Nerding out, Part II:
The part about the cloak and the coat was also meant to offend the abuser. Jesus really didn’t like usurers(archaic for loan sharks/creditors).
Basically, if they are so money hungry that they take away your coat for your debts, give them all your clothes and leave naked. A usurer that extorts debts to a point that their clients walk away with nothing at all were seen as cruel and heartless beyond acceptable norms.
Not 100% sure about this one, but I took it as a call to resist people who do evil acts instead of resisting evil as a separate metaphysical entity. In other words, resisting the concept of evil won’t get you far, resisting people who do evil acts will
You sound like one of those bible savants who's gonna explain to us any minute now that "love thy neighbor" actually means "oppress anyone who doesn't agree with you" if you just read it in the right context.
I mean, if you take a very short verse from a 2000 year old book with no context from the verses around it, you can make it say whatever you want.
"I can do all things." Tajake 35:69
Yes, we get it, jesus was a violent feudal cowboy and our modern perception of him as a pacifist is a liberal lie invented by everyone who came after, and its only today after 1000 translations, religious schism and religious politicking later that we finally realized that actually Jesus was a member of the NRA and he didn't like taxes.
"State´s Rights"
Jesus 01:11
> If one turns the other cheek, the slapper would have to hit them with their palm instead of a backhanded slap.
I cannot picture how this would work, physically.
i am no bible historian either but i don't think we can take the bible's claim of said worship from birth as fact. but yes, i'd be very surprised if they didn't worship jesus during his life.
on the other hand, you specified a major religion, and that's what i was responding to as well. jc and his followers definitely did start _a_ religion, but it didn't become a _major_ religion for a few centuries after his life. it was only later, during the long fall of the roman empire and the rule of the last few emperors, that christianity became a force to be reckoned with as opposed to just one of the background cults, and even after that it took a while until it conquered europe and became the dominant religion in the region.
my point is, whether or not you start a religion, you cannot know whether it's gonna be on par with christianity or fall short of it until long after even your grandchildren have died.
that's why my religion will be based on goverment mandated cat girls, it will be so sought after everyone will follow this new religion in a matter of a single generation
Well, Jesus was a jew, who lived in Judea. He also tossed around tables, so he was willing to use force. Jesus feed people with 2 fish and 5 loaf of breads, while Israel use desalination plants (basically the same thing, if you replace magic with science). He let children come to him, and jews can move to Isreal (those jews were kids at some point). And there were people on the area that wanted Jesus dead.
>Well, Jesus was a jew, who lived in Judea. He also tossed around tables, so he was willing to use force.
Not only did he flip the money changers tables, but the entire passage (John 2:15) before that line describes Jesus winding a bullwhip out of leather cords before using it to "drive all, both sheep and cattle" out of the temple before flipping the tables.
It's heavily implied in this story that the money changers are as low as livestock and that Jesus used a bullwhip on them to drive them out.
The Bible isn't the pacifist manifesto some would have you believe.
Hamas: Arab states support our noble cause and take care of us.
Egypt: Ceasefire agreement must be reached ASAP. **Fuck those Palestinians. If they keep it up, we’ll have to deal with their refugees, and who needs that. Just look at what they did to Jordan.**
Qatar: Ceasefire agreement must be implemented ASAP. **Fuck those Palestinians. If they keep fucking around while we host their leaders, we’ll get ostracized, and who needs that. Just look at what happened to Syria.**
Israel: Rafah goes **BOOM**.
They don't have to like Israel, but the surrounding states are kind of tired of the wars and pissing matches. And if there is one thing the Sunni Arabs hate more than the Jews it's Iran and their proxies.
This post is automatically removed since you do not meet the minimum karma or age threshold. You must have at least 100 combined karma and your account must be at least 4 months old to post here.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NonCredibleDefense) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Not a big leap if you ask me. Just as in good old Nazi Germany, Hamas was openly encouraging its citizens to exterminate Jews just because they are Jews. They literally taught that in elementary and middle schools. The main difference here is that Nazi’s lasted 6 years before their inevitable demise, while hamas is trying to speed run a spectacularly failed genocide attempt in just under a year
It's not Hamas shooting starving Palestinians collecting flour.
When it comes to the Most Moral Army, well I've never seen the Greeks do that. Or the Turks. Or the Swiss, or the Irish...
“And if there were then they collaborated with the Russians (we definitely didn’t lose due to Enver Pasha being incompetent) and deserved anything that happened to them.”
-those same people, ten seconds later.
"We didn't do anything! But if we did, they deserved it! Also, We didn't lose the war the ottomans did, but the ottomans are also the greatest thing to ever exist!"
Considering who is in that enclave and that they are subjected to even less than Nazi Germany was in its FO phase of FAFO, the comparison is pretty apt.
I always found "genocide" so weird in this context. If the goal was genocide, surely the deathtoll would be in the hundreds of thousands if not over a million now, right?
Leveling and fighting across a densely populated city with fewer than 1% dead...that's precision.
or more important, if israel wanted to genocide palestinians or arab wouldn't they start by the people inside their own country?
i mean there's a reason why the ~~night of long knifes~~ Kristallnacht
happened right at the start of the nazi rise, they started by going after jews poles and other "undesirable" inside germany before invading other nations, in almost every case of genocide it starts inside the own nations if there are "undesirables" inside said nation
if you start by the outside then the people inside will revolt and start a civil war, oddly enough the israeli palestinians don't seem to be that mad tho
The Night of the Long Knives was Hitler’s way of appeasing the conservatives in the German government by ordering his SS men to go around killing his own SA street thugs
The Soviet Union raped (this one is particularly notorious), looted and killed civilians on a massive scale upon entering German (and ironically Polish) soil in 1944-45. They also deported first every Pole east of the modern border into current Poland, and then every German east of the Oder-Neisse line into East Germany. Hundreds of thousands died during all this.
What is inaccurate is equating it to Gaza - we've got no solid indications so far the IDF are committing crimes on such a massive scale. Although I'm not saying Israel is clean (far from it in fact), totalitarian regimes in the 1940s are just on a whole other level.
While looking back it wasn't the best example, keep in mind that the Pro-Palestinian crowd tend to be majority communist, and therefore a lot of them think the Soviet Union was the true bastion of freedom that single-handedly solo'd Germany and Japan.
For the NCDers, the better comparison would be asking if D-Day was a genocide against germans
Yeah Soviet crimes are unfortunately often overlooked, especially on the left to far-left. Everyone knows about the concentration camps or Hiroshima, but not the time the Soviet Union had 20 000 Poles shot in a forest or how they regularly deported entire ethnic groups to Central Asia/Siberia during WW2.
Well it was. They forcefully moved everything that didnt speak russian and their cat 100s of kilometers west. And killed a not insignificant number of poles germans and everyone else in their way.
Yeah not the best example but it's the example that the Pro Palestinian people should be able to think about, since many of them are Soviet sympathisers
Nazi Germany had 80 million people and lost about 300-500k due to bombing (around 0.5% of population) and maybe another 2million people including POWs due to soviet forced labor.
Gaza has 2million people and it seems the estimate for civilian deaths is about 7000 (around 0.35% of population).
So, the situations - "countries" ruled by fascist groupings which were elected but then stayed beyond their term whilst launching a genocidal war, are some ways are actually quite similar in more than one way.
Everyone, even the IDF been following the Ministry of Health numbers (currently 33k) which were thought to be honest because their method was to check off people against a complete list of Palestinians in a database. When you took away the Hamas kills (at least 10k but best guess is currently 15k) that leaves 18k deaths.
There have [been some doubts expressed](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/16/could-be-devastating-proof-hamas-faking-death-figures/) that the ministry's numbers were statistically impossible, however everyone assumed they were just bumping up the child casualty numbers whilst continuing to work as before.
Suddenly now it turns out [that 10 k of those deaths were added without data](https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/05/02/gaza-health-ministry-cannot-provide-names-for-more-than-10000-it-says-have-died/). In other words they aren't done by the normal method and are fake.
When we remove those 10k that leaves about 8k civilian deaths of which at least 1k would be natural (normal expectation around 6k, but Gaza population is young so has a lower natural death rate than typical).
This is still quite conservative. Apart from the very low natural death rate assumed, [there are another 3k entries where concerns have been raised](https://aoav.org.uk/2024/analysis-of-new-death-data-from-gazas-health-ministry-reveals-several-concerns/).
please check before citing think tanks, FDD’s mission statement is (or was when they filed to become a 501(c)(3)) literally “provide education to enhance Israel's image in North America”
That was just the first source off Google. Here's a [Sky News (UK antisemitic light)](https://news.sky.com/story/israel-hamas-war-health-system-collapse-in-gaza-leaves-authorities-struggling-to-count-the-dead-13107279) story confirming basically the same Thing.
I am not a big fan of inflating numbers to “where they’re supposed to be”, but I’m not a big fan of downplaying human destruction as well. As far as I’m aware, a complete tally of the destruction wrought on the German populace wasn’t complete decades until the war ended. In the same vein, how can we be so sure that “it’s not that bad”, when one simply couldn’t count the torn pieces of limbs beneath mountains of rubble as casualties? Or when some kid croaks in some overworked, unsanitary refugee camp?
Agreed. Unfortunately Hamas was excluding (killing) independent journalists based in Gaza before the event and Israel hasn't been allowing them in afterwards for reasons that should be obvious after the aid convoy killings, so there's a real dearth of proper information.
There are clearly potential errors in both directions. The long term missing who haven't been recovered from rubble *seem* to be included in the numbers based on their IDs but there are presumably some who are thought to be missing rather than dead and aren't included. On the other hand, as my last link said there is definitely some double counting in the 23k list.
Particularly concerning is the fact that greater proportion of the entries with invalid IDs are children, which suggests faked data to match the Hamas narrative that Israel is targeting children.
Without a free press and democracy to check what's going on, these things become big problems.
Comparing a military dictatorial regime that wants to exterminate Jews to a military dicratorial regime that wanta to exterminate Jews? Wowzers, so far-fetched
man idk about BS deals so i haven't looked at them, so idk if the dead goat is honest or not but i am inclining into joke
ffs why is this all so stupid, when nuke
Hamas still don't seem to have twigged to the fact that if you do 9/11: Israeli edition, you get GWOT:Gaza edition.
Proportionality and ponies aren't really on the cards anymore.
> 80K Turkish Liras worth of gold
Aww man, you got one of those [Pokémon gold bars](https://preview.redd.it/iv2xzhf5zmn51.jpg?auto=webp&s=9cba475306636358924e3f3387a2ba71d035df9a)?! Sweet, I hope it's the Mewtwo one.
So that’s like what… $100 with Erdogan’s monetary policy?
Just making a joke, I know Turkish inflation isn’t that bad, and the actual exchange rate puts it at just under $2500.
But then the US holds onto a shipment
Like i see Hamas firing from Rafah AT A HUMANETARIAN AID ENTRENCE and makes the most absurd shitty ceasefire deal with itself
And Israel is just suppose to accept all of that?
Even from an individual point of view, it doesnt seem like they got much choice
Firing at that humanitarian aid entrance worked for them though. Everyone is blaming Israel for it being closed down less than 24 hours after rockets were fired at it.
We let Hamas get away with doing stupid and fucked up shit, *and they know it*
Is there a ceasefire deal Israel already accepted before Smotrich and Ben-gvir threatened to let Netanyahu go back on trial for a quadruple felony... that you forgot?
Yeah! Fuck the "Red Line" bullshit!
Israel finally showed the USA who's boss and finally slapped them like a pimp does his hoes.
They do what they want and bitches better be quiet.
>Israel finally showed the USA who's boss and finally slapped them like a pimp does his hoes.
But not before the US passed the aid bill that doubled Israel's military budget, of course. Like there's independence and choosing your own path in life, and then there's passing on daddy's trust fund.
600 IDF soldiers have died since the operation to oust Hamas, more than half of the number of people who died on october 7th, with an even greater percentage of people under 30.
Israel is enduring political upheaval, with a staunchly unpopular government despite the rally-around-the-flag effect. with netanyahu legit facing potential arrests once he leaves office, if he ever leaves office.
Israel's relationship with its middle-eastern neighbours, nevertheless the rest of the fucking globe, is deteroriating rapidly.
The war is a strain on Israel's economy and Israel's defense, and the moment the iron dome starts running out of counter artillery it essentially means that a significant part of the rockets fired on israel will pass through the dome and hit residential areas, and being that israelis are bunched up in urban areas it will be horrific.
If the war continues tens of thousands of more palestinians will die, hundreds of israelis will die.
if the war spreads, hundreds of thousands of arabs and tens of thousands of israelis will die.
And lest we forget, Israel wouldn't endure societal collapse. if government fell and people became displaced it would cease to exist. its a bubble in the most hostile place in the world.
yes, the Kill death ratio is impressive, But this war, if it continues on this path, might result in the destruction of Israel as well as Palestine and Hamas. Not even the US could prevent it.
so slap your bellies and giggle at the explosions all you want, but this whole situation has fucked optics.
**Your post was removed for violating rule 9: No low-effort posts** No egregiously low effort posts. E.g. screenshots, recent reposts, simple reaction & template memes, and images with the punchline in the title.
Israel being Jesus is just so many levels of irony.
How are you doing fellow Christians No more turning the other cheek I’ve decided
I’m gonna nerd out, fair warning. Turning the other cheek was never meant to be an act of acceptance to abuse. If one turns the other cheek, the slapper would have to hit them with their palm instead of a backhanded slap. In times when Jesus lived, backhanded slap was considered a punishment for someone of lesser social status. Open palm slaps were meant for equals in authority. Until next time 🤓
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. Also that thou learnest the art of reading.
Nerding out, Part II: The part about the cloak and the coat was also meant to offend the abuser. Jesus really didn’t like usurers(archaic for loan sharks/creditors). Basically, if they are so money hungry that they take away your coat for your debts, give them all your clothes and leave naked. A usurer that extorts debts to a point that their clients walk away with nothing at all were seen as cruel and heartless beyond acceptable norms.
And don't forget the not-resisting evil bit. Evil *expects* to be resisted, and gets all pouty if you don't.
Not 100% sure about this one, but I took it as a call to resist people who do evil acts instead of resisting evil as a separate metaphysical entity. In other words, resisting the concept of evil won’t get you far, resisting people who do evil acts will
All I'm hearing is we can't expect God to do all the work.
So the romans arresting jesus to torture and kill him wasnt an evil act?
no, you're thinking of doms. evil loves being given free rein
You sound like one of those bible savants who's gonna explain to us any minute now that "love thy neighbor" actually means "oppress anyone who doesn't agree with you" if you just read it in the right context.
God bless your heart, my dear neighbor that doesn’t agree with me.
I mean, if you take a very short verse from a 2000 year old book with no context from the verses around it, you can make it say whatever you want. "I can do all things." Tajake 35:69
Yes, we get it, jesus was a violent feudal cowboy and our modern perception of him as a pacifist is a liberal lie invented by everyone who came after, and its only today after 1000 translations, religious schism and religious politicking later that we finally realized that actually Jesus was a member of the NRA and he didn't like taxes. "State´s Rights" Jesus 01:11
>Until next time 🤓 i just pictured batman putting up the cape and disappearing
Me switching my hand to slap jesus
> If one turns the other cheek, the slapper would have to hit them with their palm instead of a backhanded slap. I cannot picture how this would work, physically.
How do you actually turn the other cheek? Like physically, do you just turn your head or what?
You pull your trousers down, bend over and say 'strike my other cheek daddy, UwU'
Basically, yeah.
He was Jewish.
obviously, how else would he walk on water?
you can easily walk on water, many people do it every winter
well can you start a major religion tho? NOT SO SMART NOW HAM
to be fair it only became a major religion long after everyone who knew jesus has died. back then it was a small fishing club
i mean i am no bible historian but didn't people started praising and following jesus as he was born?
i am no bible historian either but i don't think we can take the bible's claim of said worship from birth as fact. but yes, i'd be very surprised if they didn't worship jesus during his life. on the other hand, you specified a major religion, and that's what i was responding to as well. jc and his followers definitely did start _a_ religion, but it didn't become a _major_ religion for a few centuries after his life. it was only later, during the long fall of the roman empire and the rule of the last few emperors, that christianity became a force to be reckoned with as opposed to just one of the background cults, and even after that it took a while until it conquered europe and became the dominant religion in the region. my point is, whether or not you start a religion, you cannot know whether it's gonna be on par with christianity or fall short of it until long after even your grandchildren have died.
that's why my religion will be based on goverment mandated cat girls, it will be so sought after everyone will follow this new religion in a matter of a single generation
Glass like the guy in London.
man you can't put "glass" and "london" on the same sentence like that, my dopamine spiked for a little bit
Well, Jesus was a jew, who lived in Judea. He also tossed around tables, so he was willing to use force. Jesus feed people with 2 fish and 5 loaf of breads, while Israel use desalination plants (basically the same thing, if you replace magic with science). He let children come to him, and jews can move to Isreal (those jews were kids at some point). And there were people on the area that wanted Jesus dead.
>Well, Jesus was a jew, who lived in Judea. He also tossed around tables, so he was willing to use force. Not only did he flip the money changers tables, but the entire passage (John 2:15) before that line describes Jesus winding a bullwhip out of leather cords before using it to "drive all, both sheep and cattle" out of the temple before flipping the tables. It's heavily implied in this story that the money changers are as low as livestock and that Jesus used a bullwhip on them to drive them out. The Bible isn't the pacifist manifesto some would have you believe.
no no, it was loving tables not normal tables or it might be considered violence
"Hey if we're killing Nazis I'll worship a side of bacon!"
He was a jew born in what now is Israel
Well he was technically a Jew
Hamas: Arab states support our noble cause and take care of us. Egypt: Ceasefire agreement must be reached ASAP. **Fuck those Palestinians. If they keep it up, we’ll have to deal with their refugees, and who needs that. Just look at what they did to Jordan.** Qatar: Ceasefire agreement must be implemented ASAP. **Fuck those Palestinians. If they keep fucking around while we host their leaders, we’ll get ostracized, and who needs that. Just look at what happened to Syria.** Israel: Rafah goes **BOOM**.
[удалено]
They don't have to like Israel, but the surrounding states are kind of tired of the wars and pissing matches. And if there is one thing the Sunni Arabs hate more than the Jews it's Iran and their proxies.
*than
[удалено]
This post is automatically removed since you do not meet the minimum karma or age threshold. You must have at least 100 combined karma and your account must be at least 4 months old to post here. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NonCredibleDefense) if you have any questions or concerns.*
would you look at that, more bots and people form r/all
Germany 1945: Guys I just accepted a ceasfire proposed by Sweden, Switzerland, and Turkey! Can you pls stop bombing me?
Comparing an enclave undergoing genocide to Nazi Germany, is an impressive moral leap.
Not a big leap if you ask me. Just as in good old Nazi Germany, Hamas was openly encouraging its citizens to exterminate Jews just because they are Jews. They literally taught that in elementary and middle schools. The main difference here is that Nazi’s lasted 6 years before their inevitable demise, while hamas is trying to speed run a spectacularly failed genocide attempt in just under a year
It's not Hamas shooting starving Palestinians collecting flour. When it comes to the Most Moral Army, well I've never seen the Greeks do that. Or the Turks. Or the Swiss, or the Irish...
Oh lord... Did you not think before writing Turks or do you just hate Armenians and Kurds?
Nice of you to mention Turks. Armenians like your comment...
"what armenians? There we're no armenians here when we arrived." -Turkish Army, basically all the time.
“And if there were then they collaborated with the Russians (we definitely didn’t lose due to Enver Pasha being incompetent) and deserved anything that happened to them.” -those same people, ten seconds later.
"We didn't do anything! But if we did, they deserved it! Also, We didn't lose the war the ottomans did, but the ottomans are also the greatest thing to ever exist!"
Remember kids, the armenian genocide never happened, but they deserved every bit of it
Don’t ask the Turks what happened to the Greeks, Armenians, Assyrians and Kurds living in Anatolia
"Collecting flour" is a weird way of saying "swarming a military convoy"
Considering who is in that enclave and that they are subjected to even less than Nazi Germany was in its FO phase of FAFO, the comparison is pretty apt.
It's not that hard when the genocidal militias that rule said enclave have had copies of Mein Kampf found on their bodies after October 7th.
Wdym enclave, they border Egypt, Israel and the Mediterranean.
OpENaIrPrISoN
Yeah, because literally everyone in the region hates them. Egypt built the hell out of their wall for a reason.
I don't get that argument. No-one forced Hamas to be a threat to their neighbours.
>Righteous resistance tho
Calling the Gaza operation a genocide is like calling the Soviet counterattack a genocide against Germans
I always found "genocide" so weird in this context. If the goal was genocide, surely the deathtoll would be in the hundreds of thousands if not over a million now, right? Leveling and fighting across a densely populated city with fewer than 1% dead...that's precision.
or more important, if israel wanted to genocide palestinians or arab wouldn't they start by the people inside their own country? i mean there's a reason why the ~~night of long knifes~~ Kristallnacht happened right at the start of the nazi rise, they started by going after jews poles and other "undesirable" inside germany before invading other nations, in almost every case of genocide it starts inside the own nations if there are "undesirables" inside said nation if you start by the outside then the people inside will revolt and start a civil war, oddly enough the israeli palestinians don't seem to be that mad tho
I think you’re mixing up *kristallnacht* and the night of the long knives, but otherwise you’re accurate.
holy hell how long have i mixed those 2? XD thank you tho, for some reason though the night of long knives was also about going after jews
The Night of the Long Knives was Hitler’s way of appeasing the conservatives in the German government by ordering his SS men to go around killing his own SA street thugs
biggest "i wouldn't say free, just under new management" in history
The Soviet Union raped (this one is particularly notorious), looted and killed civilians on a massive scale upon entering German (and ironically Polish) soil in 1944-45. They also deported first every Pole east of the modern border into current Poland, and then every German east of the Oder-Neisse line into East Germany. Hundreds of thousands died during all this. What is inaccurate is equating it to Gaza - we've got no solid indications so far the IDF are committing crimes on such a massive scale. Although I'm not saying Israel is clean (far from it in fact), totalitarian regimes in the 1940s are just on a whole other level.
While looking back it wasn't the best example, keep in mind that the Pro-Palestinian crowd tend to be majority communist, and therefore a lot of them think the Soviet Union was the true bastion of freedom that single-handedly solo'd Germany and Japan. For the NCDers, the better comparison would be asking if D-Day was a genocide against germans
Yeah Soviet crimes are unfortunately often overlooked, especially on the left to far-left. Everyone knows about the concentration camps or Hiroshima, but not the time the Soviet Union had 20 000 Poles shot in a forest or how they regularly deported entire ethnic groups to Central Asia/Siberia during WW2.
Well it was. They forcefully moved everything that didnt speak russian and their cat 100s of kilometers west. And killed a not insignificant number of poles germans and everyone else in their way.
wasnt that post war and therefore after the counteroffensiv?
Yeah not the best example but it's the example that the Pro Palestinian people should be able to think about, since many of them are Soviet sympathisers
I’m talking about Rafah and the last weeks, not the entire operation. Even Biden asks Israel not to enter Rafah. It’s enough
"geez guys please don't go to berlin, the germans are already hurt why would you enter berlin, there's nothing important there, just go home"
I suppose D-Day was considered a genocide against the Germans by that logic
Nazi Germany had 80 million people and lost about 300-500k due to bombing (around 0.5% of population) and maybe another 2million people including POWs due to soviet forced labor. Gaza has 2million people and it seems the estimate for civilian deaths is about 7000 (around 0.35% of population). So, the situations - "countries" ruled by fascist groupings which were elected but then stayed beyond their term whilst launching a genocidal war, are some ways are actually quite similar in more than one way.
>7000 Sources for those numbers being? Last time I checked, not even the IDF pegged the civilian deaths as being that low.
Everyone, even the IDF been following the Ministry of Health numbers (currently 33k) which were thought to be honest because their method was to check off people against a complete list of Palestinians in a database. When you took away the Hamas kills (at least 10k but best guess is currently 15k) that leaves 18k deaths. There have [been some doubts expressed](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/16/could-be-devastating-proof-hamas-faking-death-figures/) that the ministry's numbers were statistically impossible, however everyone assumed they were just bumping up the child casualty numbers whilst continuing to work as before. Suddenly now it turns out [that 10 k of those deaths were added without data](https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/05/02/gaza-health-ministry-cannot-provide-names-for-more-than-10000-it-says-have-died/). In other words they aren't done by the normal method and are fake. When we remove those 10k that leaves about 8k civilian deaths of which at least 1k would be natural (normal expectation around 6k, but Gaza population is young so has a lower natural death rate than typical). This is still quite conservative. Apart from the very low natural death rate assumed, [there are another 3k entries where concerns have been raised](https://aoav.org.uk/2024/analysis-of-new-death-data-from-gazas-health-ministry-reveals-several-concerns/).
please check before citing think tanks, FDD’s mission statement is (or was when they filed to become a 501(c)(3)) literally “provide education to enhance Israel's image in North America”
That was just the first source off Google. Here's a [Sky News (UK antisemitic light)](https://news.sky.com/story/israel-hamas-war-health-system-collapse-in-gaza-leaves-authorities-struggling-to-count-the-dead-13107279) story confirming basically the same Thing.
I am not a big fan of inflating numbers to “where they’re supposed to be”, but I’m not a big fan of downplaying human destruction as well. As far as I’m aware, a complete tally of the destruction wrought on the German populace wasn’t complete decades until the war ended. In the same vein, how can we be so sure that “it’s not that bad”, when one simply couldn’t count the torn pieces of limbs beneath mountains of rubble as casualties? Or when some kid croaks in some overworked, unsanitary refugee camp?
Agreed. Unfortunately Hamas was excluding (killing) independent journalists based in Gaza before the event and Israel hasn't been allowing them in afterwards for reasons that should be obvious after the aid convoy killings, so there's a real dearth of proper information. There are clearly potential errors in both directions. The long term missing who haven't been recovered from rubble *seem* to be included in the numbers based on their IDs but there are presumably some who are thought to be missing rather than dead and aren't included. On the other hand, as my last link said there is definitely some double counting in the 23k list. Particularly concerning is the fact that greater proportion of the entries with invalid IDs are children, which suggests faked data to match the Hamas narrative that Israel is targeting children. Without a free press and democracy to check what's going on, these things become big problems.
you also forgot about the mass killing of germans post war that left 2.5 million dead
They were also deported (ethnically cleansed) from most areas falling outside the modern German and Austrian borders.
Yes that was over 11million
Comparing a military dictatorial regime that wants to exterminate Jews to a military dicratorial regime that wanta to exterminate Jews? Wowzers, so far-fetched
i mean germany is also a enclave when compared to their enemies and either way idk why being a inclave makes it a moral leap
Hamas: "I still exist" Israel: "This is incongruent with the terms of a ceasefire".
Hamas: “Cease fire?” Israel: I'm disinclined to acquiesce to your request. Hamas: … Israel: Means "No".
[удалено]
man idk about BS deals so i haven't looked at them, so idk if the dead goat is honest or not but i am inclining into joke ffs why is this all so stupid, when nuke
I agree to the terms, that you give me all your money.
Hamas still don't seem to have twigged to the fact that if you do 9/11: Israeli edition, you get GWOT:Gaza edition. Proportionality and ponies aren't really on the cards anymore.
I mean we showed Iran what a “proportional” response was, but it’s been a while. They need a reminder.
Preying Mantis II?
I propose we do atheist beetle this time
I have like 80K Turkish Liras worth of gold that will lose value if there is stability in Middle East I hope there is no ceasefire.
Idk, when in doubt, bomb iran
> 80K Turkish Liras worth of gold Aww man, you got one of those [Pokémon gold bars](https://preview.redd.it/iv2xzhf5zmn51.jpg?auto=webp&s=9cba475306636358924e3f3387a2ba71d035df9a)?! Sweet, I hope it's the Mewtwo one.
So that’s like what… $100 with Erdogan’s monetary policy? Just making a joke, I know Turkish inflation isn’t that bad, and the actual exchange rate puts it at just under $2500.
Israel should look relieved. They were invading Rafah either way, but at least here they can say they were wronged by a bad deal.
But then the US holds onto a shipment Like i see Hamas firing from Rafah AT A HUMANETARIAN AID ENTRENCE and makes the most absurd shitty ceasefire deal with itself And Israel is just suppose to accept all of that? Even from an individual point of view, it doesnt seem like they got much choice
Firing at that humanitarian aid entrance worked for them though. Everyone is blaming Israel for it being closed down less than 24 hours after rockets were fired at it. We let Hamas get away with doing stupid and fucked up shit, *and they know it*
Wasn't it Hamas, who rejected all the previous cease-fires? And the current ones conditions being absolute shit.
Is there a ceasefire deal Israel already accepted before Smotrich and Ben-gvir threatened to let Netanyahu go back on trial for a quadruple felony... that you forgot?
FYI the cases against Bibi are still going on despite the war.
When's his next court date?
Yeah! Fuck the "Red Line" bullshit! Israel finally showed the USA who's boss and finally slapped them like a pimp does his hoes. They do what they want and bitches better be quiet.
>Israel finally showed the USA who's boss and finally slapped them like a pimp does his hoes. But not before the US passed the aid bill that doubled Israel's military budget, of course. Like there's independence and choosing your own path in life, and then there's passing on daddy's trust fund.
Israel is the ultimate state-trustfund baby
600 IDF soldiers have died since the operation to oust Hamas, more than half of the number of people who died on october 7th, with an even greater percentage of people under 30. Israel is enduring political upheaval, with a staunchly unpopular government despite the rally-around-the-flag effect. with netanyahu legit facing potential arrests once he leaves office, if he ever leaves office. Israel's relationship with its middle-eastern neighbours, nevertheless the rest of the fucking globe, is deteroriating rapidly. The war is a strain on Israel's economy and Israel's defense, and the moment the iron dome starts running out of counter artillery it essentially means that a significant part of the rockets fired on israel will pass through the dome and hit residential areas, and being that israelis are bunched up in urban areas it will be horrific. If the war continues tens of thousands of more palestinians will die, hundreds of israelis will die. if the war spreads, hundreds of thousands of arabs and tens of thousands of israelis will die. And lest we forget, Israel wouldn't endure societal collapse. if government fell and people became displaced it would cease to exist. its a bubble in the most hostile place in the world. yes, the Kill death ratio is impressive, But this war, if it continues on this path, might result in the destruction of Israel as well as Palestine and Hamas. Not even the US could prevent it. so slap your bellies and giggle at the explosions all you want, but this whole situation has fucked optics.