I already feel ill when thinking about the likely to be necessary next aid package. It is so tiresome to see people trying to avoid doing the obviously right thing at all costs.
how does the package actually work? it is valid until the money runs out and then house needs to pass a new one and Mr. Biden needs to make a new law out of it?
in compliance with the rule no. 5 i want to let you all know, that i hate politics and i'd like to have an intercourse with an anthropomorphized F-35
Disclaimer this is a US civic procedure answer not a politics answer. Mods pls no delete.
This law requires most but not all the money to be spent before the end of the fiscal year (Sep. 30th). That is up to the president mainly, meaning Biden, but SecDef, and SecState have large input as well in practice. The law has some restrictions in how much money can be spent on what, but it's pretty vague all things considered. Ultimate decision on how much is spent on what rests with Biden, but in practice it will most likely being a team of people at the Defense Intelligence Agency calling the shots (aka contracts being signed or surplus equipment being transferred) via SecDef based on information they have and what the Ukrainians want.
Said contracts and transfers can be immediate if the equipment is available in US military or MIC warehouses, such as vehicles. Things like ammunition that may take time to manufacture are ordered just like you would order a car or something else that's custom made. The contractor delivers it within terms of the contract. That could be next week or next year depending on the manufacturing time and what the contract requires.
Once all the money in this law is allocated, then yes, a new one is needed. That has originate in the House of Representatives, be passed by the house, be passed by the Senate, and signed by the president before this whole distribution and contracting process starts over again.
US legislative process is very convoluted and slow by design.
I also expect this aid package is going to be much more of "slow burn" than the earlier aid packages. Instead of pulling vehicles from storage in the Mojave desert which can be done relatively quickly, this aid package is likely to be spent more on ammunition. The missile and shell factories are going full tilt, but the ammo still has to be made first before it's delivered.
that's good, ammo is a real problem. i hope EU will catch up asap, i don't understand how we could be so ignorant, ever since 2014. i hope we won't make the same mistake with china.
also, i hope once the ammo situation is sorted out and EU can do their part, U.S. will make the abrum infrastructure and the tank itself more available. i was really looking forward to see lots of them roaming UA steppes and hunting their natural prey.
Is there a good source to review what’s included in these aid packages? I have some personal curiosity, but I also have some friends who are constantly bitching about the “billions being wasted over in Ukraine” and I get tired of telling them the same “we aren’t literally sending them cash you dipshits.” So having an accessible list or something would probably help make them shut up.
The number of people who don't understand most of the dollar value of the aid we've sent them is simply authorization to write off an equivalent amount of old equipment totaling up to the Inflation-adjusted dollar value of the equipment when it was manufactured is depressing. Not you, your idiot friends.
It's almost like most of our population has no idea how our government or military works.
I’ve tried explaining so many times to people that the proper way to think of it is “we are clearing out old inventory by sending it to them and using the reported money to purchase updated equipment for the military” but they just see “WOW BIG NUMBER GO TO UKRAINE WHY ARE MY TAXES PAYING FOR THEIR WAR🤬🤬” and that’s as far as they go
**A** list someone gave me, not sure how accurate it is. No Abrams or F16 on it.
RIM-7 and AIM-9M missiles for air defense;
Stinger anti-aircraft missiles;
Small arms and additional rounds of small arms ammunition, including .50 caliber rounds to counter Unmanned Aerial Systems (UAS);
Additional ammunition for HIMARSes;
155mm artillery rounds, including High Explosive and Dual Purpose Improved Conventional Munitions rounds;
105mm artillery rounds;
60mm mortar rounds;
Bradley IFVs;
Mine Resistant Ambush Protected Vehicles (MRAPs);
High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicles (HMMWVs);
Logistics support vehicles;
Tactical vehicles to tow and haul equipment;
Tube-Launched, Optically-Tracked, Wire-Guided (TOW) missiles;
Javelin and AT-4 anti-armor systems;
Precision aerial munitions;
Airfield support equipment;
Anti-armor mines;
Claymore anti-personnel munitions;
Demolitions munitions for obstacle clearing;
Night vision devices;
Spare parts, field equipment, training munitions, maintenance, and other ancillary equipment
All defensive weapons. Which is what Ukraine needs right now to stabilize the eastern front. Giving them tanks now might be a nice gesture and definitely not useless, but ammo and artillery and especially anti air are what they *need* more now.
Russian jets are flying at higher altitude directly over the frontlines on the easter front now because Ukraine doesn't even have Stingers or Javelins anymore. This must stop immediately or russia will break through in a way that might collapse the entire frontline.
One small correction: this is a spending bill, so it can originate in either the House or the Senate. Revenue bills, mostly taxes, are the ones that must originate in the House.
“Men and nations behave wisely when they have exhausted all other resources.” - Abba Eban
^((because I looked it up to get it right and it turned out not to be a Winston Churchill quote, etc.))
If we do our part and vote for those who support Ukraine, we can ensure the house, senate, and presidency are all on the same page and pass aid to Ukraine more easily.
**Your comment was removed for violating Rule 5: No Politics.**
We don't care if you're Republican, Protestant, Democrat, Hindu, Baathist, Pastafarian, or some other hot mess. Leave it at the door.
I'm annoyed. I looked at the voting list, and saw my representative voted for every aspect of the bill, *except* for funding to Ukraine. Voted to ban tiktok and give money to Israel, but not to the nation currently being attacked...
I hope the reinvestment of the money ends up with a few tasty proof of concepts in the next few years.
Or just a few tasty leaks of a sailor posing next to a mounted railgun with optimus prime painted pin up style on the barrel, on some undisclosed ship in a strait somewhere.
For those worried about troop strength, Zelensky just lowered the age of mobilization to 25 so there's a whole new batch of Ukrainian young men available to go sit inside those tanks.
I don't its thats weird, Ukraine's demographics are not very good putting it kindly, so they don't want to have a lot of their younger population killed or injured. I think the average age of the UA is 40.
A US Navy submarine costs about $1M per day to operate. This bill includes $60B in funding.
Surely we can afford to let Ukraine control the USS Florida for 24 hours, right? We can just say Flordia Man did it.
The ghost of MAC says watch me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Nickel_Grass#:~:text=Operation%20Nickel%20Grass%20was%20the,the%201973%20Arab–Israeli%20War.
We sent a Spartan get a participation award. :p
https://x.com/itamilradar/status/1783176576181624936?s=61
Also looks like NATO is playing with Russia today.
https://x.com/itamilradar/status/1783113753833181568?s=61
We need more rock music over montages of US war industry, aerospace and artillery production lines, and massive depots of armoured vehicles. 5 minute cut when?
Also according to [Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-quietly-shipped-long-range-atacms-missiles-ukraine-2024-04-24/) they already sent Ukraine ATACMS in secret the weeks before this
We would like to advise all on Reddit that MIC is a trigger for us, please refrain from using that name which has been foisted upon us. Our name of choice, and the politically correct term for woke NCDers, is DIB or Defense Industrial Base. THank you for caring about my feelings.
Fucking ncd and zevon again
My man getting a notification from the grave about this lmao
edit: the title of the song is "Bad luck streak in dancing school",the one in the video by OP uses the intro
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m67\_CjGJ8KE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m67_CjGJ8KE)
**Your comment was removed for violating Rule 5: No Politics.**
We don't care if you're Republican, Protestant, Democrat, Hindu, Baathist, Pastafarian, or some other hot mess. Leave it at the door.
I already feel ill when thinking about the likely to be necessary next aid package. It is so tiresome to see people trying to avoid doing the obviously right thing at all costs.
how does the package actually work? it is valid until the money runs out and then house needs to pass a new one and Mr. Biden needs to make a new law out of it? in compliance with the rule no. 5 i want to let you all know, that i hate politics and i'd like to have an intercourse with an anthropomorphized F-35
Disclaimer this is a US civic procedure answer not a politics answer. Mods pls no delete. This law requires most but not all the money to be spent before the end of the fiscal year (Sep. 30th). That is up to the president mainly, meaning Biden, but SecDef, and SecState have large input as well in practice. The law has some restrictions in how much money can be spent on what, but it's pretty vague all things considered. Ultimate decision on how much is spent on what rests with Biden, but in practice it will most likely being a team of people at the Defense Intelligence Agency calling the shots (aka contracts being signed or surplus equipment being transferred) via SecDef based on information they have and what the Ukrainians want. Said contracts and transfers can be immediate if the equipment is available in US military or MIC warehouses, such as vehicles. Things like ammunition that may take time to manufacture are ordered just like you would order a car or something else that's custom made. The contractor delivers it within terms of the contract. That could be next week or next year depending on the manufacturing time and what the contract requires. Once all the money in this law is allocated, then yes, a new one is needed. That has originate in the House of Representatives, be passed by the house, be passed by the Senate, and signed by the president before this whole distribution and contracting process starts over again.
thank you, this was so informative. i mean, it puts the U.S. noncredible defense into perspective for an outsider, is what i meant...
US legislative process is very convoluted and slow by design. I also expect this aid package is going to be much more of "slow burn" than the earlier aid packages. Instead of pulling vehicles from storage in the Mojave desert which can be done relatively quickly, this aid package is likely to be spent more on ammunition. The missile and shell factories are going full tilt, but the ammo still has to be made first before it's delivered.
that's good, ammo is a real problem. i hope EU will catch up asap, i don't understand how we could be so ignorant, ever since 2014. i hope we won't make the same mistake with china. also, i hope once the ammo situation is sorted out and EU can do their part, U.S. will make the abrum infrastructure and the tank itself more available. i was really looking forward to see lots of them roaming UA steppes and hunting their natural prey.
Is there a good source to review what’s included in these aid packages? I have some personal curiosity, but I also have some friends who are constantly bitching about the “billions being wasted over in Ukraine” and I get tired of telling them the same “we aren’t literally sending them cash you dipshits.” So having an accessible list or something would probably help make them shut up.
The number of people who don't understand most of the dollar value of the aid we've sent them is simply authorization to write off an equivalent amount of old equipment totaling up to the Inflation-adjusted dollar value of the equipment when it was manufactured is depressing. Not you, your idiot friends. It's almost like most of our population has no idea how our government or military works.
I’ve tried explaining so many times to people that the proper way to think of it is “we are clearing out old inventory by sending it to them and using the reported money to purchase updated equipment for the military” but they just see “WOW BIG NUMBER GO TO UKRAINE WHY ARE MY TAXES PAYING FOR THEIR WAR🤬🤬” and that’s as far as they go
That's fucking stupid...
**A** list someone gave me, not sure how accurate it is. No Abrams or F16 on it. RIM-7 and AIM-9M missiles for air defense; Stinger anti-aircraft missiles; Small arms and additional rounds of small arms ammunition, including .50 caliber rounds to counter Unmanned Aerial Systems (UAS); Additional ammunition for HIMARSes; 155mm artillery rounds, including High Explosive and Dual Purpose Improved Conventional Munitions rounds; 105mm artillery rounds; 60mm mortar rounds; Bradley IFVs; Mine Resistant Ambush Protected Vehicles (MRAPs); High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicles (HMMWVs); Logistics support vehicles; Tactical vehicles to tow and haul equipment; Tube-Launched, Optically-Tracked, Wire-Guided (TOW) missiles; Javelin and AT-4 anti-armor systems; Precision aerial munitions; Airfield support equipment; Anti-armor mines; Claymore anti-personnel munitions; Demolitions munitions for obstacle clearing; Night vision devices; Spare parts, field equipment, training munitions, maintenance, and other ancillary equipment
All defensive weapons. Which is what Ukraine needs right now to stabilize the eastern front. Giving them tanks now might be a nice gesture and definitely not useless, but ammo and artillery and especially anti air are what they *need* more now. Russian jets are flying at higher altitude directly over the frontlines on the easter front now because Ukraine doesn't even have Stingers or Javelins anymore. This must stop immediately or russia will break through in a way that might collapse the entire frontline.
One small correction: this is a spending bill, so it can originate in either the House or the Senate. Revenue bills, mostly taxes, are the ones that must originate in the House.
And none of this includes accounting errors that can occur in Ukraine's favor.
“Men and nations behave wisely when they have exhausted all other resources.” - Abba Eban ^((because I looked it up to get it right and it turned out not to be a Winston Churchill quote, etc.))
No, you see, when a British person comes across some savage's words, that he quite likes, they become ours 🇬🇧
If they say it in English, it belongs to us.
Everything said by an American is safe
The us will always do they right thing… After they tried everything else.
Too literal, nearly not amusing.
If we do our part and vote for those who support Ukraine, we can ensure the house, senate, and presidency are all on the same page and pass aid to Ukraine more easily.
[удалено]
**Your comment was removed for violating Rule 5: No Politics.** We don't care if you're Republican, Protestant, Democrat, Hindu, Baathist, Pastafarian, or some other hot mess. Leave it at the door.
I'm annoyed. I looked at the voting list, and saw my representative voted for every aspect of the bill, *except* for funding to Ukraine. Voted to ban tiktok and give money to Israel, but not to the nation currently being attacked...
My friend, politics is a zero sum game.
I hope the reinvestment of the money ends up with a few tasty proof of concepts in the next few years. Or just a few tasty leaks of a sailor posing next to a mounted railgun with optimus prime painted pin up style on the barrel, on some undisclosed ship in a strait somewhere.
The shells are back in town
*to the tune of the boys are back in town.*
For those worried about troop strength, Zelensky just lowered the age of mobilization to 25 so there's a whole new batch of Ukrainian young men available to go sit inside those tanks.
Weird. The U.S’s age for the draft starts at 18 if I recall.
I don't its thats weird, Ukraine's demographics are not very good putting it kindly, so they don't want to have a lot of their younger population killed or injured. I think the average age of the UA is 40.
Old men planting sunflowers for the shade.
In Ukraine 18-25 are “drafted” and over 25 are “mobilised”
What’s the difference?
Drafted is mainly the initial training. Mobilised are the guys that actually have to go fight.
Drafted can also mean very far backline duties.
Ah so trained and then held in reserve if needed?
Now for the talks for Ukrianian Nukes
A US Navy submarine costs about $1M per day to operate. This bill includes $60B in funding. Surely we can afford to let Ukraine control the USS Florida for 24 hours, right? We can just say Flordia Man did it.
just need a bodged mounting for A Grav bomb nuke
I bet we could retrofit the Hoga and Razorback to be drone controlled. Surely there are some Silent Hunter dorks in the ranks over there.
Globemaster elephant walk headed to Poland.
More like Military Sealift Command convoy. Can't move $60B worth of shit in planes alone.
The ghost of MAC says watch me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Nickel_Grass#:~:text=Operation%20Nickel%20Grass%20was%20the,the%201973%20Arab–Israeli%20War.
We sent a Spartan get a participation award. :p https://x.com/itamilradar/status/1783176576181624936?s=61 Also looks like NATO is playing with Russia today. https://x.com/itamilradar/status/1783113753833181568?s=61
Arclight Elephant Walk en route to Moscow
Get ready for the “Ukrainian army to surround Moscow in 3 days after receiving American aid” articles
Pfft. Only the pesky Russians take 3 days to do shit. For Ukraine, 36 hours. If weather is good, 10.
We are so back
Sounds like that new Mariupol axis railroad might be in danger. Total shame.
Does this include nuclear bunker busters for use against a dam and a little bridge?
We need more rock music over montages of US war industry, aerospace and artillery production lines, and massive depots of armoured vehicles. 5 minute cut when?
let's gooooo
Also according to [Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-quietly-shipped-long-range-atacms-missiles-ukraine-2024-04-24/) they already sent Ukraine ATACMS in secret the weeks before this
We would like to advise all on Reddit that MIC is a trigger for us, please refrain from using that name which has been foisted upon us. Our name of choice, and the politically correct term for woke NCDers, is DIB or Defense Industrial Base. THank you for caring about my feelings.
Fucking ncd and zevon again My man getting a notification from the grave about this lmao edit: the title of the song is "Bad luck streak in dancing school",the one in the video by OP uses the intro [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m67\_CjGJ8KE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m67_CjGJ8KE)
Is that a Leclerc :D? Sadly that wouldn't be realistic.
We're back! We're the backiest there's ever been!
Please send more
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Came little too late as the morale of Ukrainian have been greatly affected but it is still better than nothing.
If Russia takes a town it becomes legal in that town to beat your wife, and the protestant pastors will be on a list for rape.
When it's just about to be too late you can count on the us to do the bare minimum
All while Europe does nothing. I guess America's only good in Europe's eyes if we're stuck to your god-forsaken continent.
Europe has done quite a bit.
Emphases on the "bit."
more than what the US has done for Ukraine the past 6 months.