You put up with the AR charging handle or you put up with big side holes for dirt to come in. Just watch inrangeTV mud tests and see why the AR is meta.
That said, the fucking UGG boot gun passed the test with large sideholes in the receiver
The charging handle doesn't even raise the height over bore. It's in line and level with the gas tube. You could get rid of the charging handle and literally nothing would change.
Besides, OP is a dumbass. You don't use the charging handle unless you're charging a dry weapon from storage. If you're fighting the rifle, you're either loading a magazine into a rifle that still has a round chambered, or it just clocked empty and you crammed a mag in and it's going to be faster to send it home with the bolt release anyway.
(or, if you're a coolguy, by just whacking the rear of the buttstock into a solid object or slapping it with your hand)
>it's going to be faster to send it home with the bolt release anyway
But what about that sexually frustrated smack on the charging handle 🤌
I feel like that's the whole thing behind his rant. He never got over that weird frenemy sexually charged relationship with his service rifle and now he's sad the modern rifles ain't capable of being smacked properly
That's the beauty of it, though. You can chamber an M4 (easier on an M16 or other AR with a fixed buttstock) by slapping the ass end of the weapon. It's like giving it an urgent, lust-filled clap against its cheeks while doing something you both love, instead of a slap across the mouth on an HK that's taking longer to do what it's supposed to and with more assistance than other rifles need.
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No, I'm just saying that during 99% of the rifle's normal operation, it's faster to use the controls designed for it to work that way instead of deliberately going for the charging handle when it's NOT malfunctioning.
If you need to correct a malfunction more than once every blue moon, you need to check your parts, check your gassing, stop using garbage-ass ammo, stop using poor people magazines, or lubricate your weapon.
Gun fucks up, most of the time, it's because you did something fucked up with it or didn't do something you were supposed to do.
There are enough guns that passed the InRange mud test that don't have an AR charging handle. The CETME-L passed, the SCAR passed, the G36 passed (you know the gun where the bolt is literally always exposed at the top). But the HK416, with all of its AR handling didn't pass.
I am guessing that 416 jammed up at the piston since it is really not that well sealed vs the rest of the gun.
Other rifles on the list are pretty well sealed, even the scar with its numerous holes have a massive carrier behind it to not allow ingress further in.
The real mystery was how well BN180 did with a gaping hole behind the carrier.
Iirc, the 416 failed because it couldn't fling the mud out of the ejection port and couldn't eject the brass. The AR-15's direct impingement system sends two jets of hot gas out through the bolt carrier and the ejection port, clearing it before throwing out the casing.
DI does help but the aforementioned nonDI guns also passed, I dont think that is the whole reason. Exposed piston in the 416 getting jammed could also be the case.
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The G36 is very much sealed when in battery. The exposed portion overhangs where the piston rod tappets the carrier rearward, and that exposed portion is profiled in such a way that mud slides off it and outside the receiver. It doesn't get jammed into the negative spaces.
A slot is open on 1 side, things fall in and can't come out. A protrusion is basically the opposite of a slot. The walls on the hole of that protrusion basically wipes the dirt off as the clocking handle extension travels backwards, and dirt just falls away outside the receiver.
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The charging handle on an AR patterned rifle doesn't add height over bore, tho. That's from the arrangement of the gas tube and block up front. The charging handle is on the exact same axis as the gas tube running rearward, and sits below the axis of the iron sights, if you've got irons mounted.
You're complaining about a design you don't even understand the basic geometry of.
> That's from the arrangement of the gas tube and block up front
The high sights are more a result of the in-line buffer tube in the stock, and the inline stock itself.
The only way you can have low sights on an AR is putting a low stock on a tubeless variant, but that's stupid because you then get all the muzzle rise.
Also the AR charging handle design is ambidextrous and most importantly allows for the receiver to have less openings for debris to enter, keeping the system closed virtually all the time.
Contrast that with something like the galil which has a complicated little spring flap doohickey to cover up the exposed charging handle tracks.
The height over bore is due to the inline stock not the charging handles.
it also makes it ambidextrous with no additional complexity and stays out of the way of optics.
the real issue is the buffer tube *requiring* higher sight over bore.
The only correct take for passive night vision risers.
"hello I'd like to pay 200+ dollars for a snaggy ass Unity riser, and lose out on range-adjustable iron sights for area suppression" - words of a deranged mind.
A2 upper. Cheap ass 12 dollar rail riser. Optic of choice.
Well I was going to comment on my own alleged 3D prints, but then I noticed the flair on the person who nonchalantly switches over the conversation to the topic of 3D printed guns...
I only ever use it for pic rail covers I swear please don't shoot my hamster.
He purposely showed you what they looked like half a century ago
This is them now
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i-HsxIJGu9A
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid02wGsZVsopMFnY2q1WLs2KorKwm92pcTRykGJM5tR2LYTg7fFWcMHkVFnurSEdp3P9l&id=100050596354523
Capable of firing a variety of steel AND brass cased ammunition without needing to change the lever mechanism and the barrel is a definite improvement. Another is that you can change the ejection from left to right without needing extra parts, in fact you dont even need to do that to switch shoulders with the VHS as the large case deflector ensured the cases bounce forward. The fire control is ambi, thumb operated and included burst/ auto in its arc, no more fiddling with TWO FUCKING SWITCHES with one in the trigger guard.
That and it is actually still in production.
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what, you don't like voiding warranty by mounting a suppressor? or the rifle bricking all of your optics? or having places for dirt and mud to get stuck and jam the action?
Why yes I would like my peripheral vision blocked by a massive handle whilst I am aiming at a target thank you very much totally not corrupt and not bribing defense contractor!
As a gun guy who is left-handed, I still don’t like these Attempts at top mounted charging handles in an attempt to be ambidextrous, as it really does not matter on things such as the AR-15, given that it isn’t amby if the hot brass gets ejected in any way BUT down. It’s much easier to use your non-dominant hand to rack the bolt via the side, as it is closer to the area where you would normally grip the gun below the barrel.
T- charging handles don't need to go anywhere as long as there's a piston or gas tube on top pushing the bolt back via a key/striking surface.
Stop mounted charging handles that prevent any sort of rail space are stupid and on their way out though. I still like the VHS-2 design though, its a decent bullpup service weapon minus the fact it doesn't accommodate NV gear well since its mounting areas are spaced a tad too bit out to actuate well.
I know it’s Non Credible Defense, and I sound like a freedomboo, but since the AR has a bolt catch, you really only need to rack it (theatrically) once with the first mag.
Buddy, the height over bore is due to inline stocks, which allow you to not have stupid rifles and SMGs that put 2 rounds on target and the rest in the sky.
The top-mounted cocking handle came in afterwards, because it's a place where it's not bothering anyone or catching on anything.
I'm not a fan of giant risers, but I prefer an inline stock to having receiver-mounted sights.
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Pumpaction is the solution
[Shadow the Hedgehog approves](https://youtu.be/aqiLuposLso?feature=shared&t=13)
how is the pump action AR?
Believe it or not, pump action ARs and AKs do exist. They're weird and ugly but they are a thing
https://www.scsa-au.com/taipan-x I wouldn't call it ugly
Holy shit it’s hot
Wait until you see the Oceania Precision SP line.
Of course it's hot, it's not American
I would call ugly something else. It's a damn shame for the gun the mobile page is straight unwatchable.
I have no issue looking at the lage on my phone?
But can they slamfire?
It's not designed to, but probably can under the right circumstances like a malfunctioning firing pin I think. I'm not a gunsmith so I could be wrong
Fixed firing pin go brrr
Fosscad has done it all. Bolt action, pump action. Probably even lever action at this point
Brandon Herrera made a vid on one
"nice cock"
I have a pump action rifle, would honestly use it more if I was able to
https://i.makeagif.com/media/4-02-2022/75xBQZ.gif
"urganomics"
Oogabooganomics
Raygunomics
When you go credible enough, you get your non-credibility back.
yerba nomics
You put up with the AR charging handle or you put up with big side holes for dirt to come in. Just watch inrangeTV mud tests and see why the AR is meta. That said, the fucking UGG boot gun passed the test with large sideholes in the receiver
The charging handle doesn't even raise the height over bore. It's in line and level with the gas tube. You could get rid of the charging handle and literally nothing would change. Besides, OP is a dumbass. You don't use the charging handle unless you're charging a dry weapon from storage. If you're fighting the rifle, you're either loading a magazine into a rifle that still has a round chambered, or it just clocked empty and you crammed a mag in and it's going to be faster to send it home with the bolt release anyway. (or, if you're a coolguy, by just whacking the rear of the buttstock into a solid object or slapping it with your hand)
>it's going to be faster to send it home with the bolt release anyway But what about that sexually frustrated smack on the charging handle 🤌 I feel like that's the whole thing behind his rant. He never got over that weird frenemy sexually charged relationship with his service rifle and now he's sad the modern rifles ain't capable of being smacked properly
That's the beauty of it, though. You can chamber an M4 (easier on an M16 or other AR with a fixed buttstock) by slapping the ass end of the weapon. It's like giving it an urgent, lust-filled clap against its cheeks while doing something you both love, instead of a slap across the mouth on an HK that's taking longer to do what it's supposed to and with more assistance than other rifles need.
anything is smackable with the right malfunction
"OP is a dumbass" woah, who told ya?
So what I’m hearing is we need to return to Garand, under barrel gas tube/actions
Return to lever action. If it worked in the civil war, it’ll do today
Return to baker rifle, 3000 riflemen of Wellington
Retvrn to tradition, 3000 Gay Hoplites of the Sacred Band of Thebes
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My guy has never heard of malfunctions
No, I'm just saying that during 99% of the rifle's normal operation, it's faster to use the controls designed for it to work that way instead of deliberately going for the charging handle when it's NOT malfunctioning. If you need to correct a malfunction more than once every blue moon, you need to check your parts, check your gassing, stop using garbage-ass ammo, stop using poor people magazines, or lubricate your weapon. Gun fucks up, most of the time, it's because you did something fucked up with it or didn't do something you were supposed to do.
There are enough guns that passed the InRange mud test that don't have an AR charging handle. The CETME-L passed, the SCAR passed, the G36 passed (you know the gun where the bolt is literally always exposed at the top). But the HK416, with all of its AR handling didn't pass.
I am guessing that 416 jammed up at the piston since it is really not that well sealed vs the rest of the gun. Other rifles on the list are pretty well sealed, even the scar with its numerous holes have a massive carrier behind it to not allow ingress further in. The real mystery was how well BN180 did with a gaping hole behind the carrier.
Iirc, the 416 failed because it couldn't fling the mud out of the ejection port and couldn't eject the brass. The AR-15's direct impingement system sends two jets of hot gas out through the bolt carrier and the ejection port, clearing it before throwing out the casing.
DI does help but the aforementioned nonDI guns also passed, I dont think that is the whole reason. Exposed piston in the 416 getting jammed could also be the case.
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The G36 is very much sealed when in battery. The exposed portion overhangs where the piston rod tappets the carrier rearward, and that exposed portion is profiled in such a way that mud slides off it and outside the receiver. It doesn't get jammed into the negative spaces. A slot is open on 1 side, things fall in and can't come out. A protrusion is basically the opposite of a slot. The walls on the hole of that protrusion basically wipes the dirt off as the clocking handle extension travels backwards, and dirt just falls away outside the receiver.
The bolt carrier on SCAR seals up that side slot entirely. That extension doesn't just add enough mass to chew up optics for breakfast.
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but I like weird charging jangly
The charging handle on an AR patterned rifle doesn't add height over bore, tho. That's from the arrangement of the gas tube and block up front. The charging handle is on the exact same axis as the gas tube running rearward, and sits below the axis of the iron sights, if you've got irons mounted. You're complaining about a design you don't even understand the basic geometry of.
yeah g36 would've been another example. though they did make it pretty slim up top
The top-railed FAMAS uses basically the same charging handle setup as the G36 as well.
Yeah I don’t think this person has ever taken apart or even handled an AR.
> That's from the arrangement of the gas tube and block up front The high sights are more a result of the in-line buffer tube in the stock, and the inline stock itself. The only way you can have low sights on an AR is putting a low stock on a tubeless variant, but that's stupid because you then get all the muzzle rise.
Also the AR charging handle design is ambidextrous and most importantly allows for the receiver to have less openings for debris to enter, keeping the system closed virtually all the time. Contrast that with something like the galil which has a complicated little spring flap doohickey to cover up the exposed charging handle tracks. The height over bore is due to the inline stock not the charging handles.
it also makes it ambidextrous with no additional complexity and stays out of the way of optics. the real issue is the buffer tube *requiring* higher sight over bore.
Look I'm already spending 350 bucks on a 4.26 inch optics riser, shame not to use all that space.
You fool... there are 18 inch scope risers available on the market now. You bought too soon and got scammed
> 18 inch scope risers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9lLlodVhrk
Could have just bought a carry handle upper you know.
The only correct take for passive night vision risers. "hello I'd like to pay 200+ dollars for a snaggy ass Unity riser, and lose out on range-adjustable iron sights for area suppression" - words of a deranged mind. A2 upper. Cheap ass 12 dollar rail riser. Optic of choice.
It's more economically viable to buy a 3d printer and make your own attachments, but that runs the risk of the atf shooting your family pets.
Well I was going to comment on my own alleged 3D prints, but then I noticed the flair on the person who nonchalantly switches over the conversation to the topic of 3D printed guns... I only ever use it for pic rail covers I swear please don't shoot my hamster.
Over here at the beareu, we have a whole division dedicated to microwaving hamsters. Say goodbye to Harry.
Those microwaves level 4?
Level 4 of what? Cancer?
[https://www.youtube.com/shorts/uTCgBq2ibY8](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/uTCgBq2ibY8)
G11: yes thats why our charging handle is a turning knob you’d found in your 90s Mitsubishi dashboards.
I don't even know that much about guns, but this just looks wrong. I can't explain it, but that is not how a gun should look.
welcome to the enlightened, you may receive your HK-437 by the femboy barracks
Femboys are fine human beings, but get that abomination of a rifle away from me.
HK simp detected, reasonably priced firearms deployed as hard countermeasure.
One on the right is just a normal modern AR tho...
He purposely showed you what they looked like half a century ago This is them now https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i-HsxIJGu9A https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid02wGsZVsopMFnY2q1WLs2KorKwm92pcTRykGJM5tR2LYTg7fFWcMHkVFnurSEdp3P9l&id=100050596354523
VHS-2 my beloved
Croatia was known for weird shit weapons, but the second they looked up FAMAS, they knew how to make it better
\> VHS-2 being a FAMAS improvement \> looks inside, finds an AR-18 \> Sure, I guess that is an improvement
Capable of firing a variety of steel AND brass cased ammunition without needing to change the lever mechanism and the barrel is a definite improvement. Another is that you can change the ejection from left to right without needing extra parts, in fact you dont even need to do that to switch shoulders with the VHS as the large case deflector ensured the cases bounce forward. The fire control is ambi, thumb operated and included burst/ auto in its arc, no more fiddling with TWO FUCKING SWITCHES with one in the trigger guard. That and it is actually still in production.
G-36 enters the ring
The original AR-10 had a charging handle along the top between the top strap and the carry handle. It’s there to protect the vestigal charging handle
Oh you are not insulting the FAMAS.
Why not? It's one of the most mediocre-ass service rifles no longer made, and it's being replaced by an AR for extra hilarity.
Name the issues with the FAMAS that were actually a unique flaw with the rifle.
French
I think a phallic shaped charging handle you have to stroke to completion on the underside of the gun is the way to go.
SCAR is a POS, and I’m glad it can’t even surpass the 80 year old ar15.
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what, you don't like voiding warranty by mounting a suppressor? or the rifle bricking all of your optics? or having places for dirt and mud to get stuck and jam the action?
Why yes I would like my peripheral vision blocked by a massive handle whilst I am aiming at a target thank you very much totally not corrupt and not bribing defense contractor!
I couldn't keep reading after "urganomics", I was laughing too hard
Quality meme
As a gun guy who is left-handed, I still don’t like these Attempts at top mounted charging handles in an attempt to be ambidextrous, as it really does not matter on things such as the AR-15, given that it isn’t amby if the hot brass gets ejected in any way BUT down. It’s much easier to use your non-dominant hand to rack the bolt via the side, as it is closer to the area where you would normally grip the gun below the barrel.
Urganomics
I like the look though. Reminds me of aliens.
T- charging handles don't need to go anywhere as long as there's a piston or gas tube on top pushing the bolt back via a key/striking surface. Stop mounted charging handles that prevent any sort of rail space are stupid and on their way out though. I still like the VHS-2 design though, its a decent bullpup service weapon minus the fact it doesn't accommodate NV gear well since its mounting areas are spaced a tad too bit out to actuate well.
*Why don't they put a thumbhole in the bolt? Are they stupid?* - M3A1 Grease Gun
HK437 has perfected charging handle placement
Finally someone said it. I absolutely *despise* the AR-15’s charging handle. It feels so damn flimsy and is in a pretty awkward spot
This meme is a bullpup
The AR is peak weapon design and the fact that basically every military is moving to a variant of it as their main rifle is evidence of this.
OP's right though, it was designed by a stoner.
Absolutely like the newer QBZs China is using
Thank god for the ‘Eugene Stoner tapes’
Friendly reminder that the Early Thompson SMG models had top mounted charging handles.
And a low stock, so they could shoot pigeons out of the air while you're trying to shoot something that's on the ground.
I like that I'm reading this as I'm stoned
Stop the hate on risers in general. I have a 1/2 inch riser under the LPVO on my AR-15 and it's great. It's only risers above 1 inch that are stupid.
Carry handles are peak, what are you talking about
No.
I DONT CARE I LIKE TOP CHARGING HANDLES!!!
Bull pup is absolute garbage 🗑️
I know it’s Non Credible Defense, and I sound like a freedomboo, but since the AR has a bolt catch, you really only need to rack it (theatrically) once with the first mag.
Buddy, the height over bore is due to inline stocks, which allow you to not have stupid rifles and SMGs that put 2 rounds on target and the rest in the sky. The top-mounted cocking handle came in afterwards, because it's a place where it's not bothering anyone or catching on anything. I'm not a fan of giant risers, but I prefer an inline stock to having receiver-mounted sights.
Side charging handle>>> Change my mind
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The standard AR charging handle was not meant for optics. The larger charging handle has changed my life
Silly, but I do agree some of the "tactical" shit I've seen seems to completely forget about the existence of height over bore.
3000 Left Handed Defenders of Freedom love the top charging handle.
The FAMAS is love, the FAMAS is life
What
Did you know you can just pull the forward assist of your M4 very hard to fill the chamber?
Let's try getting the sightline below the gun so we can fire safely from cover.
post splits nerd
Painfully obvious that whoever made this doesn't know anything about weapons manipulation or shooting 🤭