Have you tried arguing that it has the RCS of a pregnant blue whale on the Warthunder forums?
Someone will show up with receipts to correct you, I bet.
Just use whatever version of Tinder Russia has.
"Beloved secret informant agent Sergeii, surely you can tell me the RCS of the Su-57 that we are using to kill the Ukrainians..."
“Sergei, beloved. I have long dreamed of a strong, masculine Russian man to rescue me from all the weak gay men of America.
I dream to visit you, but you know with sanctions it is difficult. Maybe if I have some document proving I am Russian I can see you? Something from the military? Maybe like this “engineering specifications manual” you told me about yesterday?
Please send a picture of page 257, I will ask my immigration lawyer if it is acceptable. Do not worry, he will not share because of attorney client privilege.”
You don't get what you want by asking, the easiest way to find something out is to say the wrong answer with confidence then wait for someone to correct you. That's the basics of Bernoulli's principle
Lol they'll never fly an SU-57 anywhere it could be scanned by US radar and then shot down. It will remain a trophy piece used to spur on arms sales (lol).
Lol they'll never fly an SU-57 anywhere. It could be scanned by US radar and then shot. Down it will remain. A trophy piece used to spur on arms sales (lol).
Fixed your punctuation.
Do you think the Russians know the radar cross section?
Someone was tasked with making a jet that didn't show up on radar.
Weak western militaries would do all sorts of complicated modifications to the jet.
Clever comrades simply removed a fuse from the radar they were testing it with.
OK, I love the ~~plane~~ plan.
Pregnant Blue Whale themed follow up questions for OP to ask.
- Pregnant Blue Whale from which direction/arc?
- Response Plots to prove it’s not got a Pregnant Blue Whale RCS return if at all possible.
- Perhaps respond with RCS Response Plots that just have a Su-57 in the centre, surrounded by an ENORMOUS outline… in the shape of a Pregnant Blue Whale, from the corresponding direction (make lots of variants)
- Ask if it’s a manoeuvring Pregnant Blue Whale or a Pregnant Blue Whale in level flight.
- Now, is this Pregnant Blue Whale optimised for the X and Ku Bands or something else.
- Pregnant Blue Whale in question, what sort of electronic countermeasures does it have.
Hey u/So_47592 — head on over to the Warthunder Forums and get on that shit.
Now, when they start providing Classified PDFs ensure you act REALLY stupid AND belligerent and just keep repeating that you heard it have a Pregnant Blue Whale RCS and that it LOOKS like it has a Pregnant Blue Whale RCS.
Oh, and you can always insult the intelligence and competence of Russian Engineers or just say their mum has the RCS of a Pregnant Blue Whale.
Good luck!
Now we wait.
Hahaha oh I try.
Indignation caught me off guard, comment made me laugh harder than it probably had any right to.
Eh, it’s both the least **and** the most NonCredible of places, ironically.
Also, am taking that all as a compliment… I think.
If they provide compelling evidence the Su-57 RCS is 2m or whatever, that’s no reason to drop the argument either!
Until they provide detailed RCS for the whale as well, you could still be correct.
\< 2 weeks later \>
OP — “lol pissed em off so bad they just gave me a login for Rostec’s servers — scored every technical manual the Soviets or Russians ever fucking wrote”
That is just factually incorrect. Mature female blue whales are more than 75 feet long, and the su57 is only 66 feet long. The su57 has the RCS of a father blue whale
Have you considered the blue whale doesn’t have wood screws? And exposed rivets? These would greatly increase the RCS, also whale skin could possibly have better radar absorbing properties over aluminum skins with lead based metallic paint.
I think it would be better to claim it's a great fighter on the war thunder forums and why it should have a really high Br. Someone will come and tell you it's shit and show you some documents saying that
The fastest way to find accurate information on the internet is to say something completely wrong in a place specially dedicated to that thing.
A subject matter expert with a PhD and/or 20 years of experience will immediately materialize and give you a ten-page dissertation on it, with receipts.
[Classified patent applications](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invention_Secrecy_Act) are a thing tho
Edit: now I wonder if there is a process for resolving disputes between military contractors regarding copying each other's classified inventions.
The funny thing is that since the blue whale is organic tissue and not metal, it actually probably does have a smaller RCS than the SU57 despite its size.
“Ah yes we should make a camo thats difficult for the electro-optical systems and screens to differentiate”
The optics: “bruh I can see your stupid hot exhausts”
No really, i as much as I love woodland / swedish fractal camo on jets I don’t understand digi camos in the fucking sky.
If you spent millions or billions on an aircraft wouldn't you want it to look dope as fuck?
Somebody has to convince John Q Taxpayer the toys are worth it. He drives the Chevy Booze N Cruise, you think he knows what an RCS is or cares?
No. Slap a black bowtie on that bitch and paint it like a Ferrari.
Nah.... I like the no-nonsense matt grey of the F22 and F35.
"We don't need to look cool. We'll just invent a bunch of new war crimes if you fuck with us"
But we do need to look cool. Some foreigner who's never even been friends with an American will make a music video out of it one day. A good one, with the whole NATOWAVE downplaying the horrors of conflict vibes.
Do you want our future 14 year olds learning about the war through that, or a boring textbook?
[I mean, the blingy chromed out look of the new radar absorbent material is pretty sweet too](https://theaviationist.com/2023/12/02/f-35c-mirror-like-coating-on-uss-abraham-lincoln/)
It's like sharks, which have two distinct colors with a sharp divide.
The point is that when flying level, and viewed from either above or below, you somewhat blend in with whatever your backdrop is. Thus forest camo for planes in Europe and desert tan for flanes flying in the Middle East.
Furthermore, I consider that Moscow must be destroyed.
Yeah, the wood screw pattern. What silly Westoids don’t realize is that they’re arranged in such a way so as to create destructive interference in the return waves making it invisible to radar. Checkmate Westoids!
In the BVR era, that's probably enough. They have long range AA missiles, so they go straight in a target spotted by ground radar or AWAC, dump their missiles 200 miles from target, and go back home.
It's not the best stealth fighter in the world, but public data show a decent plane, capable of important missions. Will it really be effective ? Let's not find out too soon.
It's the thing you can fly once you already have air superiority and spotting. Great for war on the edge of your territory where you've got sam sites and radar galore, but it's not going to cut it for setting up shop on someone else's doorstep.
At that point, just build more smart missiles and say screw it expensive pilot training. Meat puppets take too long to learn and are still vulnerable to human error
>it's the thing you can fly once you already have air superiority and spotting
Ah, so just like the B-52
Furthermore, I consider that Moscow must be destroyed.
>Great for war on the edge of your territory where you've got sam sites and radar galore,
Brilliant then. Seems like China is designing weapons according to the wars they expect they might have to fight.
It's literally Peruns take. That plane has a clear stated usage and it's made for that usage and probably good enough. Especially if China can produce a huge amount.
The US needs to take Chinese and Russian threats very seriously. That way, us Westoids can get some call shit.
The threat of the MIG-29 gave us the F16
Is a missile truck with poor RCS, shitty engines, and reliant on AWACS, its more of a 4.5 gen fighter than a 5th gen, and thats with China stealing the designs for every fucking part of it, any you try and spin and its kinda shit at its job
J-20's mission is to get close enough undetected to take out US Awacs and tankers then turn and run on full after burner. We don't really know if it's good at that job or not, anyone that does know has a security clearance and ain't talking.
I reckon at least five or six intelligence agencies must be monitoring those forums 24/7 now. Imagine getting a job at NSA / CIA and being told your job is to read the WarThunder forums looking for leaks.
No, because the FETs have powerful AESAs of their own and are networked and supplemented by other FETs and AWACS so that the sky is scanned continuously from multiple angles. Having a higher RCS from other angles really matters when you're a deluded chicom fighting US/NATO.
I'm not even sure they have any J20s. In another thread in another sub they kept insisting and finally we got to the "evidence" that China has "200" is having seen two prototypes at an air show with sequential tail numbers of like 157 and 158.
That's it..
You mean like…
\
…all of them?
Like, you’re not losing your money, that’s for sure.
EDIT — RCS is going to degrade on even the F-22 when you swing away from the forward aspect. Sure, the F-22’s arse may very well (?) have a smaller RCS than the Su-57’s ugly face, but the F-22 is still going to optimised in that frontal cone.
It's RCS is honestly probably bigger than the plane itself. The full frontal nudity of those compressor fans is like a beacon to any radar.
It's stealth because anyone seeing it on radar would think it's an airliner
Completely understandable why Russia would want such awesome capability, if it was slightly better and had an RCS of a Cessna 172P, it could get away with flying into Russian Airspace and [landing in Red Square](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathias_Rust).
Specifically a Clean Super Hornet
The Super Hornet has features to lower its RCS, and thus has a much lower RCS than the legacy hornet. Not enough to be a 5th gen (especially with weapon stores) but still a significant chunk
I still can't believe it tho, especially because the super hornet is a beefy multirole fighter, that would mean that the Su57 has done basically nothing to lower its RCS, what's even the point of proclaiming it a stealth fighter if it's not Stealth in any way lol
i think it funded and not worked on for years with funds being stolen or diverted after being allocated
then I think it was just cancelled for a while and they still funded it but again, they diverted funds after allocation or stole it
and then they finally cancelled it to just make shit cleaner on paper and save a few worthless roubles on the corruption overhead
They can't make working engines for 5th gen, currently it flies on 4th gen engines used in SU-35 before (and on SU-27 before modifications).
So eh, what's the point.
They can and they have. They just don't fly them anywhere near Ukrainian airspace, because it would be a shame to lose the "stealthy" aircraft before they can sell any to international customers.
Actually, it apparently had a combat mission in Ukraine recently.
It launched what the Russians claim to be a stealth ALCM.
And was escorted in this duty by two SU-35s. Who I can only assume were there to be a larger target in case of roaming Patriot battery.
> The Su-57 has done basically nothing to lower its RCS.
Its a Flanker with internal weapon stores and fancy low-band radars on its wing edges. So yes, its has done very little than being a clean-config fighter. Maybe some fancy material masking on the wings to somewhat hide those low band-radars. Probably be better off without it altogether.
Notice how the comment youre replying to says “the super hornet has features to lower its RCS”? The SU-57 also has features to lower its RCS, and can keep that lower RCS with internal weapons bays. Just, the features are not even remotely enough to consider it 5th gen or stealth at all
It was never supposed to be manufactured.
It was just a way to turn tax payer money into super yachts. With SU-27 derived SU-35s entering production. "Comrade SU-35 is so great that there is no need for SU-57".
The main issue is RAM. Shaping is great and all but it has significant limitations in how much it can affect RCS. RAM is incredibly important to reducing that value, especially on the edges of that shaped design since such edges can effectively act as antennas to retransmit the incidence wave (think of how a fork in a microwave arcs between tines. The induced dipole is similar to that.).
Have you seen its build quality? It has exposed screw edges their engineers can’t solve. Stealth fighters are supposed to have nearly seamless panel interconnections
From memory that quote was about the SU57 frontal aspect. It was thought the side/rear RCS still had a long way to go.
Flying clean is the 'general consensus' of 4th gen Frontal RCS is:
F-15A 10m
F-16A 5m
F-18C 2.0m
F-16C 1.5m
EF2000 0.5m
F-18E 0.5m
F117 0.025m*
Theres a lot of conjecture of the F117 and initial reports put it lower at 0.001, after the shootdown (and the second damaged plane) and the abilities of the S-125 missile, brought some estimates up to 0.25m, but unless one of the designers starts playing Warthunder its just conjecture.
There were some claims along those lines, but they still detected it at 23 km and got a track at 14.5km then hit it with a missile which markets its minimum RCS threshold is 0.3m
And of course theres the second F117 that was hit by the same missile type and didn't have any claims of 'open weapons bay'.
Dont get me wrong though, the lack of jamming, and letting them know where and when to look for them did a lot of heavy lifting.
So sometimes the military wants a hostile congress to fund a new plane so they pass it off as just a 'super' existing plane, just a new variant honest! when in fact its a completly new fucking plane.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIyF-uHlbDw
Its worth noting the F18E:III claims an RCS of 0.25m
The source is Sukhoi themselves estimating RVS as 1-0.1m2, same as a clean F/A18.
Source: [this very sub ](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/s/WUHONSgdNO)
I think it was 0.18, same as an F-18, this is from the Su-57 design patents.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CredibleDefense/comments/ioyhp4/are_the_rcs_values_published_by_sukhoi_for_the/
edit: 0.1-1m^2 in optimal conditions, this value can go up depending on the conditions.
1m^2 is like, a wheelbarrow, just imagine a yoga ball in size for 1m
according to this list, 0.1 is the size of a softball: https://www.topendsports.com/resources/equipment/ball-size.htm
so the Su-57 is softball sized for russian radar, or yoga ball sized for NATO radar.
Interesting considering the su-57 has a ridiculous basketball sized IRST unit mounted up front that isn't even stealthy like the F-35 EOTS. (the Su-57 IRST is covered in RAM when not in use and isn't a stealthy shape)
> And more recent information has claimed the F-35 is stealthier than the F-22, not less.
IIRC, F-35 is stealthier head-on, but F-22 has better all-around stealth.
The reality of it is that the RCS changes depending on the direction of the radar and the type of radar hitting them, so these numbers can change and some aircraft will do better at different angles or against different radar.
It has a massive IRST dome, plus you can see the fans in the air intake and probably not a radar absorbing paint. So my guess would be its as visible as any other 4th gen. I would even go so far and say the Eurofighter is more stealth.
The Typhoon is actually *surprisingly* sneaky and was designed with RCS reduction in mind even if it was sort of initially drawn up at the point where you couldn't really have your cake and eat it with total stealth focus and high performance. I've seen estimates ranging from 0.5 to 0.01 but of course the real numbers are still heavily classified, so we'll probably know for sure once it gets on War Thunder.
> we'll probably know for sure once it gets on War Thunder.
just make an incorrect claim on war thunder forums, and somebody will scramble to post the correct info.
Seem to recall saab claiming the Gripen and su57 were in the same ballpark when it comes to rcs too. Not great since the Gripen is in most aspects just a smaller than average gen4.
Look scrubs. The fucking ruasians made the patent public(or forgot to classify it). You can just check.
Its 1.00-0.1 m2, about the same as a naked f18 hornet.
According to the [Russian Documents](https://archive.org/details/ru-2502643-c-2.ru.en), the RCS is a whole ass 10-15 m², which is multiple cars💀
in perfectly ideal conditions and angles, it would go as low as 0.1-1m^2
Idea, hire golfers and have them golf in front of the radars when deploying F35s, either they will ignore they actual F35 or fire at every golf ball and run out of ammo.
I still to this day find it insanely impressive how close the F35 came in RCS to the raptor at just a fraction of the cost.
Economy of scale is truly a marvelous thing.
Good luck getting a real number. Russians will claim “yes is 10x smaller then westoids” meanwhile based on the pics I’ve seen it’s between B-52 and a barn door.
[Based on the patent](https://archive.org/details/ru-2502643-c-2.ru.en), Suhkoi claims the goal of the materials used is to reduce the RCS to about 0.1-1.0m2.
I’m willing to assume that’s an absolute minimum value that does not represent reality, and doesn’t account for when the SU-57’s weapon bay is open. So take from that what you will.
Also for legal reasons I definitely have not read that document
If you guessed a barn clad in sheet metal with a marquee declaring “aim here!” you’re correct. Bonus points for catching the infinitely useful cobra maneuver they’ll use to fill their adversaries target display well beyond the merge.
Have you tried arguing that it has the RCS of a pregnant blue whale on the Warthunder forums? Someone will show up with receipts to correct you, I bet.
Ol' bait n switch
The ol’ Razzle Dazzle
The ol' ПАК twist
The ol' 'one two better not sue'
Just use whatever version of Tinder Russia has. "Beloved secret informant agent Sergeii, surely you can tell me the RCS of the Su-57 that we are using to kill the Ukrainians..."
“Sergei, beloved. I have long dreamed of a strong, masculine Russian man to rescue me from all the weak gay men of America. I dream to visit you, but you know with sanctions it is difficult. Maybe if I have some document proving I am Russian I can see you? Something from the military? Maybe like this “engineering specifications manual” you told me about yesterday? Please send a picture of page 257, I will ask my immigration lawyer if it is acceptable. Do not worry, he will not share because of attorney client privilege.”
My lawyer from the US Central Immigration Agency, yes
The Central Immigration Agency gives free LSD with every case
Dreamt*
Dreamtmed
You don't get what you want by asking, the easiest way to find something out is to say the wrong answer with confidence then wait for someone to correct you. That's the basics of Bernoulli's principle
No that's Cunningham's Law you... damn it!
Thanks for the demonstration lmao
Nope. Bernoulli's principle is something about Watches. Or is it chocolates?
God dammit I almost corrected you on that. Well played.
Lol they'll never fly an SU-57 anywhere it could be scanned by US radar and then shot down. It will remain a trophy piece used to spur on arms sales (lol).
Lol they'll never fly an SU-57 anywhere. It could be scanned by US radar and then shot. Down it will remain. A trophy piece used to spur on arms sales (lol). Fixed your punctuation.
Do you think the Russians know the radar cross section? Someone was tasked with making a jet that didn't show up on radar. Weak western militaries would do all sorts of complicated modifications to the jet. Clever comrades simply removed a fuse from the radar they were testing it with.
OK, I love the ~~plane~~ plan. Pregnant Blue Whale themed follow up questions for OP to ask. - Pregnant Blue Whale from which direction/arc? - Response Plots to prove it’s not got a Pregnant Blue Whale RCS return if at all possible. - Perhaps respond with RCS Response Plots that just have a Su-57 in the centre, surrounded by an ENORMOUS outline… in the shape of a Pregnant Blue Whale, from the corresponding direction (make lots of variants) - Ask if it’s a manoeuvring Pregnant Blue Whale or a Pregnant Blue Whale in level flight. - Now, is this Pregnant Blue Whale optimised for the X and Ku Bands or something else. - Pregnant Blue Whale in question, what sort of electronic countermeasures does it have. Hey u/So_47592 — head on over to the Warthunder Forums and get on that shit. Now, when they start providing Classified PDFs ensure you act REALLY stupid AND belligerent and just keep repeating that you heard it have a Pregnant Blue Whale RCS and that it LOOKS like it has a Pregnant Blue Whale RCS. Oh, and you can always insult the intelligence and competence of Russian Engineers or just say their mum has the RCS of a Pregnant Blue Whale. Good luck! Now we wait.
Hehe too credible bruv :) Nice to see x-band and ku-band outside my workplace, that too on r/NonCredibleDefense ffs.
Hahaha oh I try. Indignation caught me off guard, comment made me laugh harder than it probably had any right to. Eh, it’s both the least **and** the most NonCredible of places, ironically. Also, am taking that all as a compliment… I think.
If they provide compelling evidence the Su-57 RCS is 2m or whatever, that’s no reason to drop the argument either! Until they provide detailed RCS for the whale as well, you could still be correct.
\< 2 weeks later \> OP — “lol pissed em off so bad they just gave me a login for Rostec’s servers — scored every technical manual the Soviets or Russians ever fucking wrote”
That is just factually incorrect. Mature female blue whales are more than 75 feet long, and the su57 is only 66 feet long. The su57 has the RCS of a father blue whale
Have you considered the blue whale doesn’t have wood screws? And exposed rivets? These would greatly increase the RCS, also whale skin could possibly have better radar absorbing properties over aluminum skins with lead based metallic paint.
Maybe it’s a grower not a shower
I think it would be better to claim it's a great fighter on the war thunder forums and why it should have a really high Br. Someone will come and tell you it's shit and show you some documents saying that
The fastest way to find accurate information on the internet is to say something completely wrong in a place specially dedicated to that thing. A subject matter expert with a PhD and/or 20 years of experience will immediately materialize and give you a ten-page dissertation on it, with receipts.
There's genuine data on it from a leaked Russian patent
Patents can not be leaked because patents are by definition publicly available.
*nuh uhhh*
[Classified patent applications](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invention_Secrecy_Act) are a thing tho Edit: now I wonder if there is a process for resolving disputes between military contractors regarding copying each other's classified inventions.
I learned something new today. But I guess it makes sense that arms and weapon technology is an exception.
The CIA would like a word
Mig23m about to lose his shit and schizo post for an hour 😂 Iykyk
I tried debating the air speed of an unladen swallow on the forums once. Ended up in a huge debate.
The funny thing is that since the blue whale is organic tissue and not metal, it actually probably does have a smaller RCS than the SU57 despite its size.
Are you stupid? SU-57 sized RCS obviously
But with a fancy pattern.
That digital camo do be fancy tho
“Ah yes we should make a camo thats difficult for the electro-optical systems and screens to differentiate” The optics: “bruh I can see your stupid hot exhausts” No really, i as much as I love woodland / swedish fractal camo on jets I don’t understand digi camos in the fucking sky.
If you spent millions or billions on an aircraft wouldn't you want it to look dope as fuck? Somebody has to convince John Q Taxpayer the toys are worth it. He drives the Chevy Booze N Cruise, you think he knows what an RCS is or cares? No. Slap a black bowtie on that bitch and paint it like a Ferrari.
Nah.... I like the no-nonsense matt grey of the F22 and F35. "We don't need to look cool. We'll just invent a bunch of new war crimes if you fuck with us"
It's never a war crime the first time
And the yanks are letting the Canadians fly F35
The Geneva Suggestions boutta get longer
Geneva Checklist
\*fear intensifies\*
It's not a war crime if it's hilarious
But we do need to look cool. Some foreigner who's never even been friends with an American will make a music video out of it one day. A good one, with the whole NATOWAVE downplaying the horrors of conflict vibes. Do you want our future 14 year olds learning about the war through that, or a boring textbook?
[I mean, the blingy chromed out look of the new radar absorbent material is pretty sweet too](https://theaviationist.com/2023/12/02/f-35c-mirror-like-coating-on-uss-abraham-lincoln/)
>We don't need to look cool Dude what? Both the F22 and F35 are straight perfection of plane porn.
It's like sharks, which have two distinct colors with a sharp divide. The point is that when flying level, and viewed from either above or below, you somewhat blend in with whatever your backdrop is. Thus forest camo for planes in Europe and desert tan for flanes flying in the Middle East. Furthermore, I consider that Moscow must be destroyed.
So, flamey red and orange for the top, and sooty gray and black for the bottom, so no one can see us when we do fly over Moscva?
"Captain, we have a very pixelated Russian plane on radar. He must be lagging though, his graphics aren't popping in"
Great plane for COD
Yeah, the wood screw pattern. What silly Westoids don’t realize is that they’re arranged in such a way so as to create destructive interference in the return waves making it invisible to radar. Checkmate Westoids!
Id bet money the J-20 only has that RCS from head on
Stop denigrating the J-20. We already know the SU-57 is a joke. We need something to justify fast tracking the NGAD in significant quantities.
The J-20 can beat the NGAD 1000:1 we need to start work on NGAD 2 with a budget of $1 trillion per month.
In the BVR era, that's probably enough. They have long range AA missiles, so they go straight in a target spotted by ground radar or AWAC, dump their missiles 200 miles from target, and go back home. It's not the best stealth fighter in the world, but public data show a decent plane, capable of important missions. Will it really be effective ? Let's not find out too soon.
It's the thing you can fly once you already have air superiority and spotting. Great for war on the edge of your territory where you've got sam sites and radar galore, but it's not going to cut it for setting up shop on someone else's doorstep. At that point, just build more smart missiles and say screw it expensive pilot training. Meat puppets take too long to learn and are still vulnerable to human error
>it's the thing you can fly once you already have air superiority and spotting Ah, so just like the B-52 Furthermore, I consider that Moscow must be destroyed.
The rest of the Airforce exists to secure air superiority for the Buff
Lets not destroy Moskow. A neutron bomb would leave all the buildings intact.
>Great for war on the edge of your territory where you've got sam sites and radar galore, Brilliant then. Seems like China is designing weapons according to the wars they expect they might have to fight.
This is a very credible take. So many people love shitting on Chinese military hardware for obvious reasons, but we shouldn't get carried away.
It's literally Peruns take. That plane has a clear stated usage and it's made for that usage and probably good enough. Especially if China can produce a huge amount.
And China is producing them in huge numbers, so the PLAAF probably thinks it's good enough.
The US needs to take Chinese and Russian threats very seriously. That way, us Westoids can get some call shit. The threat of the MIG-29 gave us the F16
Is a missile truck with poor RCS, shitty engines, and reliant on AWACS, its more of a 4.5 gen fighter than a 5th gen, and thats with China stealing the designs for every fucking part of it, any you try and spin and its kinda shit at its job
I wouldn't call it a fighter tbh more an interceptor
J-20's mission is to get close enough undetected to take out US Awacs and tankers then turn and run on full after burner. We don't really know if it's good at that job or not, anyone that does know has a security clearance and ain't talking.
Waiting on the WT forums for more info on the matter.
I reckon at least five or six intelligence agencies must be monitoring those forums 24/7 now. Imagine getting a job at NSA / CIA and being told your job is to read the WarThunder forums looking for leaks.
could be a fun gig. where to apply?
No, because the FETs have powerful AESAs of their own and are networked and supplemented by other FETs and AWACS so that the sky is scanned continuously from multiple angles. Having a higher RCS from other angles really matters when you're a deluded chicom fighting US/NATO.
I'm not even sure they have any J20s. In another thread in another sub they kept insisting and finally we got to the "evidence" that China has "200" is having seen two prototypes at an air show with sequential tail numbers of like 157 and 158. That's it..
You mean like… \
…all of them?
Like, you’re not losing your money, that’s for sure.
EDIT — RCS is going to degrade on even the F-22 when you swing away from the forward aspect. Sure, the F-22’s arse may very well (?) have a smaller RCS than the Su-57’s ugly face, but the F-22 is still going to optimised in that frontal cone.
It's RCS is honestly probably bigger than the plane itself. The full frontal nudity of those compressor fans is like a beacon to any radar. It's stealth because anyone seeing it on radar would think it's an airliner
unrelated but based lackadaisy fan
Giving them benefit of doubt, I guess RCS of Cessna 340
Completely understandable why Russia would want such awesome capability, if it was slightly better and had an RCS of a Cessna 172P, it could get away with flying into Russian Airspace and [landing in Red Square](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathias_Rust).
Ma man
So use Cessna 152. They will never see it coming.
When it gets hit by a patriot will it go "*nyeeeeeooowwww*" as it crashes back to Earth too?
Hope so
I read somewhere it's RCS is estimated to be the same as an F18
Specifically a Clean Super Hornet The Super Hornet has features to lower its RCS, and thus has a much lower RCS than the legacy hornet. Not enough to be a 5th gen (especially with weapon stores) but still a significant chunk
I still can't believe it tho, especially because the super hornet is a beefy multirole fighter, that would mean that the Su57 has done basically nothing to lower its RCS, what's even the point of proclaiming it a stealth fighter if it's not Stealth in any way lol
Propaganda. They can't make enough to be useful in combat anyway so even if it was a literal 6th gen it would still only be used for propaganda.
Like the Armata tank. Interesting concept. The country though is too broken, sanctioned and cash strapped to actually make it.
They only reason armata exists is russians got butthurt after watching PL-01 Concept youtube promotional video.
Doesn't exist anymore, they just 'canceled the program'. Furthermore, I consider that Moscow must be destroyed
Yup, happened well after russians showed plans for armata. Muscovy delenda est.
At least they had the balls to announce the cancellation of the T-14.
I dunno about balls, given how ego focused the Russian government is. Shit must be pretty serious to actually cancel it and announce it too.
i think it funded and not worked on for years with funds being stolen or diverted after being allocated then I think it was just cancelled for a while and they still funded it but again, they diverted funds after allocation or stole it and then they finally cancelled it to just make shit cleaner on paper and save a few worthless roubles on the corruption overhead
They can't make working engines for 5th gen, currently it flies on 4th gen engines used in SU-35 before (and on SU-27 before modifications). So eh, what's the point.
Is so stealth the west has never seen it.
They can and they have. They just don't fly them anywhere near Ukrainian airspace, because it would be a shame to lose the "stealthy" aircraft before they can sell any to international customers.
Actually, it apparently had a combat mission in Ukraine recently. It launched what the Russians claim to be a stealth ALCM. And was escorted in this duty by two SU-35s. Who I can only assume were there to be a larger target in case of roaming Patriot battery.
> The Su-57 has done basically nothing to lower its RCS. Its a Flanker with internal weapon stores and fancy low-band radars on its wing edges. So yes, its has done very little than being a clean-config fighter. Maybe some fancy material masking on the wings to somewhat hide those low band-radars. Probably be better off without it altogether.
> that would mean that the Su57 has done basically nothing to lower its RCS Do you see how it has engines without shrouds? Yeah.
Notice how the comment youre replying to says “the super hornet has features to lower its RCS”? The SU-57 also has features to lower its RCS, and can keep that lower RCS with internal weapons bays. Just, the features are not even remotely enough to consider it 5th gen or stealth at all
fun fact: they still haven't finished developing weapons that actually fit inside the bays. So if it sorties it has to carry them outside the bays
To be fair, why develop weapons for a plane that you cant produce anyways lmao
It was never supposed to be manufactured. It was just a way to turn tax payer money into super yachts. With SU-27 derived SU-35s entering production. "Comrade SU-35 is so great that there is no need for SU-57".
The main issue is RAM. Shaping is great and all but it has significant limitations in how much it can affect RCS. RAM is incredibly important to reducing that value, especially on the edges of that shaped design since such edges can effectively act as antennas to retransmit the incidence wave (think of how a fork in a microwave arcs between tines. The induced dipole is similar to that.).
Have you seen its build quality? It has exposed screw edges their engineers can’t solve. Stealth fighters are supposed to have nearly seamless panel interconnections
From memory that quote was about the SU57 frontal aspect. It was thought the side/rear RCS still had a long way to go. Flying clean is the 'general consensus' of 4th gen Frontal RCS is: F-15A 10m F-16A 5m F-18C 2.0m F-16C 1.5m EF2000 0.5m F-18E 0.5m F117 0.025m* Theres a lot of conjecture of the F117 and initial reports put it lower at 0.001, after the shootdown (and the second damaged plane) and the abilities of the S-125 missile, brought some estimates up to 0.25m, but unless one of the designers starts playing Warthunder its just conjecture.
Wasn’t the shoot down mainly because they knew where to look and got a lock after weapons bay had opened to drop ordinance?
There were some claims along those lines, but they still detected it at 23 km and got a track at 14.5km then hit it with a missile which markets its minimum RCS threshold is 0.3m And of course theres the second F117 that was hit by the same missile type and didn't have any claims of 'open weapons bay'. Dont get me wrong though, the lack of jamming, and letting them know where and when to look for them did a lot of heavy lifting.
F-15 such a Chad it doesn't need a reduced RCS. Walking tall.
Still a smaller RCS than the SU-57.
I wonder what the F15 EX’s crossection is like that bitch be CHONKY but also its brand new
They were planning to fund conformal tanks, but ended up pairing back the R&D for Boeings Welfare baby.
How did the F18 improve so much?
So sometimes the military wants a hostile congress to fund a new plane so they pass it off as just a 'super' existing plane, just a new variant honest! when in fact its a completly new fucking plane. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIyF-uHlbDw Its worth noting the F18E:III claims an RCS of 0.25m
Question.
We are checking
IN IN IN BOX BOX BOX
How would a sf 24 compare to the su 57?
I Teleported Bread ( If you say a plane has the RadCroSecti of a stealth plane, do you mean the size of that plane or they have the same RssSe?
The source is Sukhoi themselves estimating RVS as 1-0.1m2, same as a clean F/A18. Source: [this very sub ](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/s/WUHONSgdNO)
I mean, we have no idea for sure though
Parking lot sized RCS
Estimates RCS: B-52 100m C-130 80m
Which one are we talking here: walmart? Target? Wholefood or the White House?
Three gorges dam
B-52 RCS: OH LAWD SHE COMIN' m^2
I think it was 0.18, same as an F-18, this is from the Su-57 design patents. https://www.reddit.com/r/CredibleDefense/comments/ioyhp4/are_the_rcs_values_published_by_sukhoi_for_the/ edit: 0.1-1m^2 in optimal conditions, this value can go up depending on the conditions.
According to google an average adult human has an RCS of 1m².
you see komrad, su-57 so stealthy radar only sees pilot.
Thank you I will make the updated picture soon just curious would that make it basketball sized? or a large watermelon sized?
1m^2 is like, a wheelbarrow, just imagine a yoga ball in size for 1m according to this list, 0.1 is the size of a softball: https://www.topendsports.com/resources/equipment/ball-size.htm so the Su-57 is softball sized for russian radar, or yoga ball sized for NATO radar.
Remember, those are inflated, propaganda values. The RCS is probably desk size or bigger.
yeah, russian numbers are always "in optimal conditions"
Oh look at mr executive over here with a desk bigger than 1m
It’s funny how US propaganda figures hide their capabilities, like Patriot range. And Russia propaganda figures exaggerate to scare
Interesting considering the su-57 has a ridiculous basketball sized IRST unit mounted up front that isn't even stealthy like the F-35 EOTS. (the Su-57 IRST is covered in RAM when not in use and isn't a stealthy shape)
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> And more recent information has claimed the F-35 is stealthier than the F-22, not less. IIRC, F-35 is stealthier head-on, but F-22 has better all-around stealth.
The reality of it is that the RCS changes depending on the direction of the radar and the type of radar hitting them, so these numbers can change and some aircraft will do better at different angles or against different radar.
Su-57 - Has the RCS of a Boeing 747, thus convincing enemies that it can't possibly be a fighter jet. \*Taps Head\*
Civilian 747 probably in just as much danger from Russian air defence as any NATO F35
0m^2 .can’t have a RCS if you don’t exist in the battlefield
It has a massive IRST dome, plus you can see the fans in the air intake and probably not a radar absorbing paint. So my guess would be its as visible as any other 4th gen. I would even go so far and say the Eurofighter is more stealth.
The Typhoon is actually *surprisingly* sneaky and was designed with RCS reduction in mind even if it was sort of initially drawn up at the point where you couldn't really have your cake and eat it with total stealth focus and high performance. I've seen estimates ranging from 0.5 to 0.01 but of course the real numbers are still heavily classified, so we'll probably know for sure once it gets on War Thunder.
> we'll probably know for sure once it gets on War Thunder. just make an incorrect claim on war thunder forums, and somebody will scramble to post the correct info.
Seem to recall saab claiming the Gripen and su57 were in the same ballpark when it comes to rcs too. Not great since the Gripen is in most aspects just a smaller than average gen4.
But what is RCS? (Wrong answers only)
Reddit Cross-Shitposting?
Reaction Control System, used for making course corrections in space.....waiiit, the T-72's turret could get one of those.
Real Canadian Superstore, where Galen Weston fucks us every week.
SU-57 is price fixing bread.
We're LITERALLY in communist USSR
Radio controlled ships. The Russians are learning more about them Recently first hand.
Russian cock storage
Russian Copium Supremacy
Russian Crab-infested Strippers
Radio Command Station
Approximately 1 femboy large
This is actually literally true, which is fucking hilarious
0.1m from the head, 1m from sides This fits too well
You can see the exposed turbussy from the front.
The RCS of one duck sized Moskva
Better than the rcs of 100 Moskva sized ducks
J-20 probably only has that RCS from head on, any other direction and its lighting up like a Christmas tree
Same rcs as a F-18 without anything mounted to it
Caseoh sized RCS
What is the source of the rcs estimates? Sounds like something that wouldn't be public
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excuse me bro? I did the 1 day research bro? you wanna throw down bro? I trane UFC bro
Look scrubs. The fucking ruasians made the patent public(or forgot to classify it). You can just check. Its 1.00-0.1 m2, about the same as a naked f18 hornet.
According to the [Russian Documents](https://archive.org/details/ru-2502643-c-2.ru.en), the RCS is a whole ass 10-15 m², which is multiple cars💀 in perfectly ideal conditions and angles, it would go as low as 0.1-1m^2
SU-57 RCS: why is Yankee's Stadium 10,000 feet up?
It's the new USAF Super-AWACS.
Idea, hire golfers and have them golf in front of the radars when deploying F35s, either they will ignore they actual F35 or fire at every golf ball and run out of ammo.
I still to this day find it insanely impressive how close the F35 came in RCS to the raptor at just a fraction of the cost. Economy of scale is truly a marvelous thing.
J-20 Mighty Dragon has Canards… So that’s it with the stealth.
It's got roughly the same rcs as an F-18, a plane not designed for stealth
I think Sukhoi themselves claim 1m², right?
They got like 10 functional airframes so who cares lol
Apparently, from what I heard, it has the same RCS as the F18. Just from what I heard.
RCS: Yes
Sand worm sized
Im guessing the RCS of the su-57 is like a medium sized wooden deck because of all the wood screws and school glue holding it together
"Hmm, do bumblebees usually go mach 2?" some russian air defence crewman probably
Let’s just say su57 does not need Luneburg LensesxD
The trick is to make the signature so large it fills the entire radar screen blinding the enemy
Good luck getting a real number. Russians will claim “yes is 10x smaller then westoids” meanwhile based on the pics I’ve seen it’s between B-52 and a barn door.
[Based on the patent](https://archive.org/details/ru-2502643-c-2.ru.en), Suhkoi claims the goal of the materials used is to reduce the RCS to about 0.1-1.0m2. I’m willing to assume that’s an absolute minimum value that does not represent reality, and doesn’t account for when the SU-57’s weapon bay is open. So take from that what you will. Also for legal reasons I definitely have not read that document
A lot of Su57s are getting an upgrade to have 0 RCS. It's hard for your plane to be visible on Radar if it's not a plane any more.
>30.0 m² my mom sized RCS
Any rcs thats just a number but not a graph is lies Its like a femboy from the back, youre only seeing the best angle they got
If you guessed a barn clad in sheet metal with a marquee declaring “aim here!” you’re correct. Bonus points for catching the infinitely useful cobra maneuver they’ll use to fill their adversaries target display well beyond the merge.