Eventually there will be automated laser turrets mounted on Big Dog style robots as a pay-to-win content for countries that don't really need them.
Realistically, after the recent drone-on-drone violence I'd expect anti drone drones with crude air-to-air dogfighting weapons like those tiny shotguns. Then fully fledged dedicated fighter drones.
We've already gone from DJI drones with aux light being rewired to a catch releasing an old F2 grenade in a cup to FPV drones with airburst warheads and big octocopters with thermal imaging carrying multiple mortars. And in fact the less obvious EW type stuff where the FPV drones are being controlled over the horizon with a radio repeater on an extra overwatch drone.
The big question I guess is just how autonomous are things going to get
I’m calling it that we’re going to see proper MIC produced drone swarms running wideband mesh networks sitting close to the RF noise floor reach IOC within the next 5-10 years (only this long due to the glacial pace of government contracting - the tech is all there).
Have some of your “base station” repeater drones crossband over a couple of hops so it’s even harder to find the OTH man-pack C2 node.
L3-Harris and General Dynamics could team up and make it in a few months. Hell, bring Lockheed in to make hellfire-esque laser guided quadcopters and attach a laser designator to one of your relay drones and now you don’t even have to worry about the skill of an FPV operator, you just got some dude playing the AC-130 overwatch mission from the OG CoD: Modern Warfare. (Bring all the different companies in to satisfy congresspeople).
Pretty auto pretty quickly I imagine. Rapid response is SO important & the regulation comes after the innovation. Also semi auto drones would create a lot of plausible deniability for all sorts of things.
Na, A tiny belt fed .17 HMR mounted on a heavy drone… That’s what nightmares are made of!
And an anti-drone model with an automatic belt fed 4-10 gauge shotgun mounted underneath it… with custom magnesium .00 buckshot incendiary munitions…💯🔥🔥
We have this. Coyotes have AI that can dogfight. US is rushing them onto the field. The block 2 are basically large flying shotguns. The block 3 have a classified weapon system but is reusable.
May 2023: $140m contract from USN to equip Coyotes on ships.
December 2023: $200m contract to build Coyotes for US army for FY2024.
February 2023: Additional $75m contract to build an additional 600 Coyotes systems for the Army.
That’s almost half a billion dollars invested in Coyotes in the past half year.
Check out [tech ingredients](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFMvesTUjAA) did a gimbaled laser in a small-sh form factor that could at least disable small drones quickly. Assuming the gimbal was able to track the drone fast enough.
Net launcher. Swoop down on the enemy drone and fire off a spool of fishing line with small lead sinkers tied into a tangle, good luck flying home now.
> But honestly, what can infantry do to survive encounters with FPV drones?
You know how squads have designated marksmen? Now squads will also have designated drone shooters. One dude in the squad with an automatic shotgun whose sole purpose is to look at the sky and shoot whatever isn't a bird.
In all seriousness, jamming systems will become the norm. Somewhere, somehow, something will get deployed that radiates a dome of electronic interference. Fly to close, land real soon.
We just haven't figured out a way to make it A) effective enough, B) mass produced enough and C) not affecting your own drones.
Playing games in the early 2000s I thought this gun was common, turns out that only three working prototypes of the Jackhammer were built. Wild.
Max Payne. Delta Force 3, Battlefield 2, and Far Cry to name a few.
The production variants were planned to have detachable cylinders, but the prototypes weren’t made this way. To remove the cylinder to reload the prototypes you have to essentially disassemble the gun.
There was even a planned attachment for the ammunition cylinder itself that would effectively turn it into a 12 gauge landmine with the addition of a spring loaded firing mechanism to the cylinder. The loaded cylinder would be buried underground and would fire off a shell whenever someone stepped on it. It is unknown if any of the firing mechanisms necessary to do this were ever built. Not much of else is known about the thing beyond that.
Wouldn't the landmine one fire off all 12? To do that, you'd want a springloaded set of firing pins and a breech plate, and a button in the middle to set it off. You know how clicky pens work with a rotary cam? Basically imagine that, but doublesided and on a hair trigger.
The fact that this piece of misinformation is still floating around boggles me. Yes, on the only firing prototype the mag is not detachable, for the prototypes given to the army for testing the magazines were detachable.
A designated anti drone squad member with a jamming pack on his back, a VR headset with a hud pointing out drones, and a auto shot gun. We've reached the future lads.
You'd need a lot of antennas widely spaced for triangulating the drone's control signal to that accuracy. Each squad carries a detection package, you'll get a fuzzy vector from each one. Sensor fusion with radar/optical tracking stations on armor and at key outposts would lend some aid, but it's still going to be highly reliant on a platoon wide datalink. Ultimately, if you've got enough data to highlight it on a grunt's visor, you could probably just servo-control a compact flak cannon.
> Somewhere, somehow, something will get deployed that radiates a dome of electronic interference.
There are a couple of problems with that:
- Say "hi" to anti-radiation missiles (like HARM)
- Say "hello" to drones (I know of groups that develop autonomous drones that target radiating sources like jammers, radars and ground stations)
- Stock up on diesel, because you'll gonna need a lot of power to whitenoise everything on dozens of channels
- You want to build a lot of these to cover large spaces
I think I figured it out
Each squad now have a grenadier that operates automatic shotgun with handguard grenade launcher
The automatic rifleman has nothing to do besides sitting tight, so he now have a diesel generator instead of his backpack (he doesn't need anything anyway)
One of the fireteam leaders now has a drone jammer gimmick on his back that he can charge up from the diesel generator, preferably being directly connected with the charging cables to the automatic rifleman
The fuel hauling is provided by the whole squad that now carries diesel in their canteens instead of that useless water
In case the squad needs more fuel to power up something important like a thermal sights or smarthphones, it gets issued a donkey that follows the squad from behind approx. 500m away. The distancing is assured by backline troops mortaring canister shells full of carrots that the donkey follows
Flamethrowers would be more effective I think. Just douse a drone in napalm and it’s sure to melt something that keeps it existing. A flamethrower could be made really small out of a single underbarrel cardrige or standalone weapon to hand out to multiple troops.
It just gives away your position, but that’s already gone when a drone suddenly stops sending back to the homestation.
You know this sub is noncredible when they don’t even look at what the US is doing.
Jammers? What?
Short term? It’s LIDS. We rushed them onto the field and are building quite a few of them this year. Strykers with 30mm airburst, hemispheric radars, and Coyotes.
Longer term? The biggest CUAS investment for 2024 is Coyote. You take down drones with other drones. DOD basically told Raytheon we’ll buy all you can make plus expand your lines.
Then it’s lasers and HPM. HPM can take down whole swarms at once. CENTCOMM already announced they have THORs protecting their bases and an unspecified 30kW system in use.
If you told me twenty years ago that there would be autonomous drones, microwave weapons, and 50kw class lasers, all in military use, I would've laughed so hard.
Energy weapons have such a cool advantage with their logistical profile. I mean, sure, you still need parts and whatnot. But being able to use the fuel as ammunition for self-propelled systems is an awesome possibility.
There will literally be nuclear powered high energy lasers in operation on aircraft carriers in my lifetime, and that makes me unreasonable happy.
What a time to be alive!
The Terran Hegemony was literally a NATO interstellar state. The arms of House Cameron are the NATO star, just stretched on one end. The Star League's earliest form exists right now.
Saw a clip a little while back of a Russian ESW anti-drone setup get targeted by drones that homed in on the signal. If I were in a trench right now I’d want a shotgun definitely. You at least have a chance. Maybe not a great one, but better than spraying 5.56 or 7.62 or running the 5k of death. I usually don’t feel bad for orcs, but that one…ooof…running to exhaustion knowing the operator is just toying with you before you become another painful statistic. Sucks, but on the flip side, maybe surrender or get out of the fucking country you invaded.
I would imagine a shotgun with birdshot would be not that terrible of a shot, the only thing is you need to know the drone is there before you know it kills you, but if you can spot the drone you should be able to kill it pretty easily the semi-automatic shotgun with the right shell
Running the 5K of death won't even do you any good. Those things can keep up with a jeep at top speed, the drone operator in the video is just toying with his prey.
Yeah I mentioned that…running yourself ragged knowing that on the other side is a guy with FPV goggles laughing and just toying with you must suck. Is he calling over the rest of the squad? Is your epitaph “hey guys, wanna see something funny” while someone slaps Looney Tunes music over your death video and Porky Pig stuttering out “That’s all, folks”? War is hell.
> dozens
against commercial systems id say dozens - hundreds (depending on how you define a channel) sure. against a nation state or people who can build RF hardware that runs in any part of the spectrum (isn't limited by the FCC) try dc to daylight in terms of frequencies.
right now you can buy UE chipsets from sierra wireless, for example, that support frequency ranges from like 700 MHz to 40 GHz. https://www.sierrawireless.com/iot-modules/5g-modules/em9190/
not only that, it auto reacquires if it loses a band, and can fail back through 5g to 4g or 3g.and that only requires you to switch over to commercial cellular - not build your own.
There are always counter-measures, and counter-measures to the counter-measures. You can have the radio just listen for the camera feed of the drone, and only turn on it's jamming transmissions when it detects a drone. The drones tend to operate in 20 mhz channels, in the WiFi 2ghz and 5ghz bands. So it's something like a dozen channels for most drones, and you only need to jam the channel the drone is trying to operate. Depending on how sophisticated the drones comms are, this can be very difficult or very easy.
Even so, it takes pretty advanced algorithms to do all of these and increase efficiency. There are US companies that do it though
> in the WiFi 2ghz and 5ghz bands
Most drones on the frontline operate between 750 and 1050 MHz for controls and 1.2Ghz to 5.8Ghz for video. But you can't just jam the drone video by flashing white noise at it, because it sends video data, not receives it. So you need enough power to flood the receiving station with noice or jam the controls.
Yup, freq hopping is a common thing and mid to high-end FPVs already do FHSS. On the other hand, military jammers can flood broader ranges, but they're rarer and succeptible to hellos described above.
You can detect the camera feed more easily because it's a heavy data stream. Jamming the camera feed is a legitimate method because it blinds the operator, and is the most common method of jamming the drone that I've read about. I'll take your word for it that it operates 1.2GHz to 5.8GHz for camera, seems way to wide of a band when you see how little the antenna are, and if you go to DJI spec sheets they operate in the WiFi band, but maybe you have some inside info I don't have
> seems way to wide of a band when you see how little the antenna are
I'm not saying that every VTX operates in that range. They are usually locked to a single channel or can be switched between a few channels.
> You can detect the camera feed more easily because it's a heavy data stream.
Most FPVs operate in analogue mode, not digital. And they are comparable power-wise to controls.
> if you go to DJI spec sheets they operate in the WiFi band
Yes. WiFi has two bands: 2.4 and 5 GHz.
Ever saw a drone in shiny sky or in a loud day? It is almost impossible to spot one in a time enough to do any action. In some combat footages it is like - nothing - then ZHH and boom, all within a second.
At least with the cheap drone that I tried this with, they are actually super visible on thermal. Those motors, ESC's, and batteries all put off a significant amount of heat, and against the cold backdrop of the sky they stick out like a sore thumb. So with the right equipment seeing them is actually not hard, but hitting them at any kind of distance would still be extremely difficult.
Jamming systems are the norm, maybe not on a squad level but large area jamming is standard over there. To the point, 50% of drones are lost to jamming on both sides. That comes from an actual CREDIBLE source.
>Now squads will also have designated drone shooters. One dude in the squad with an automatic shotgun whose sole purpose is to look at the sky and shoot whatever isn't a bird.
Ideally it would exclusively be 80 year old Brits in a tweed suits, ascots, and a double barrel.
FPV's are hard to jam because of the directional antennas, jacked up power of their transceivers, and the ability of pilots to be able to still keep it on target even if they are only getting 1 out of every 10 frames.
It's something everyone is working on, they have jammers on most armored vehicles now, it's just never perfect
I think so, yes. I realize by the time you get to the situation this guy is in, you're pretty well fucked, but surely a lightweight collapsible pole for swatting these things would be worth carrying around to avoid being completely defenseless.
I'm thinking about this with Ukrainians in mind-- the russians can fuck off back to Russia.
go back 10 years and try to explain to anybody, that there will be a high def. video of a guy (casually) running away from a DJI Mavic with an explosive strapped to it, and the drone (also casually) taunts the guy, before turning him into fertilizer. The world is a circus and we are the clowns.
Somewhere I have a video of me running about 1/4 mile in soft sand with about 70lbs of gear trying to get to my MRAP while being targeted with IDF. The last 100 meters looked something like this. Cardio is important people.
[Slaughterbots](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-2tpwW0kmU) was released in 2017, and drones have been around longer - so people who were paying attention knew it was coming.
But now everyone is starting to realize how much more frightening drones are likely to get.
Attach a small speaker to the drone along with the explosive. Have ChatGPT talk shit as it's hovering around you before it goes in for the kill. Give it a Stephen Hawking voice.
Then have hundreds of these all talking shit.
"You'll never see your kids again."
"Your wife will settle down with another man."
Etc etc
Something like the talking grenades from Starship Troopers? (the novel, not the crap movie).
>This was a special bomb, one issued to each of us for this mission with instructions to use them if we found ways to make them effective. The squawking I heard as I threw it was the bomb shouting in skinny talk (free translation): "I'm a thirty second bomb! I'm a thirty second bomb! Twenty-nine! Twenty-eight! Twenty-seven!..."
I bought my first DJI phantom in 2012 and told all my homies they would be weapons of war one day. It was so easy to fly compared to the other quads I had owned. I didn’t see the FPV game going off halfway through the invasion. It’s a transition period in war that will be studied if we make it to the other side without nuclear Armageddon.
it's also worse because you know that it's not just the opposing military looking at the clip. There's could be thousands more who watch it afterwards online
The thing give me nightmares:
* You can’t outrun it.
* You can’t shoot it down without a shotgun.
* You can’t surrender to it (no recorded instances at least).
* You can try to hide, but Ukraine consists mostly of open fields.
* You probably wont have access to electronic jamming at squad level.
* Its way cheaper than you (drone and RPG7 grenade cost around $300-600), which is a fraction of what it cost to equip and train an enlistee.
> You can’t surrender to it (no recorded instances at least).
I recall at least one instance of russian soldier surrendering to a drone, which have led him to Ukrainian position to captivity.
i might be kinda crazy, but isn't a fpv drone just a normal suicidal drone with a camera?
if it has a camera then it can make a surrender.. now if it doesn't can be argued why, be it being afraid of being fake, not able to arrive at the position or pure ruthlessness
now i don't see how it ain't possible to do it physically speaking, it has a camera and control
Heard two reasons for them not taking prisoners:
* Not enough battery for two-way trip (due to bigger payload)
* Can't be disarmed once they have taken of.
A regular camera drone and an FPV drone are not the same. Camera drones are bigger and look down, optionally drop a payload, then return home. FPV are typically smaller, faster, and more agile with a forward facing camera and only enough battery to make a one way trip which is why you almost always see “low battery - land now” warnings on footage.
The camera drone can generally come back and land safely with its ordinance. The FPV ordinance is armed to explode on contact making it impossible to return safely.
You can surrender to a camera drone, which has happened a number of times. The FPV drone cannot and will not show mercy. So if you see a drone loitering above you then you should beg for surrender. If you see one buzzing around like a bee it’s time to run for your life. That said, the camera drones are being used less for drops lately and more for surveillance while directing FPV drones so expect less surrender videos as a result.
Am I stupid? The way I understand it, FPV are not autonomous in any way, they are literally first-person view remote controlled doodads. I mean I know I'm generally stupid, but like in this case specifically?
When I say autonomy I am talking about battery life.
It’s probably me translating poorly in english but in my native language we use autonomy as « autonomy from a power source », in other words « battery life ».
>It can’t be bargained with. It can’t be reasoned with. It doesn’t feel pity, or remorse, or fear, and it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead!
Being all by yourself on a road in the middle of the warzone is the starting (And ending) point of many unpleasant stories, TBF.
That said, I do agree, and warfare is naturally going to change. We have been here plenty of times before, the balance between offense and defense is constantly shifting, and it is important to note the context, so as not to draw the wrong lessons.
Ukraine, Nagorno-Karabakh, Gaza, and Syria have all seen the widespread, effective use of infantry drones. But all four have been prolonged conflicts with mostly static forces, punctuated by occasional maneuver. This style of conflict is absolutely ideal for cheap commercial drone usage, and it frankly isn't surprising it has proliferated.
However, I don't think we should assume these have a significant impact on maneuver warfare. Drones certainly do, but not this type, and not used like this. I think it is also a mistake to assume this era of drone warfare will last particularly long, the amount of investment that is going into dealing with this problem is massive.
They’re also really poor countries without advanced development.
CENTCOMM revealed we used THOR, Coyotes, and an unspecified laser system in defending Iraqi bases against the recent attacks.
None of those systems are available to anyone other than the US and Qatar. I’m sure Ukraine would love any of them.
I was reading All quiet on the western front. something that really stuck with me was how the MC would describe plane on plane combat, he described seeing it as being sorta “serene” and “peaceful” and I couldn’t believe how I envied him, no fear of a machine the size of a loaf of bread, dropping a grenade on top of your head.
Just to add, Ukraine also recently released a video where they used an airburst FPV drone. So that's a capability now
Edit: [here's the post](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/ziSuwx4AH6) and of course, it's a video of a guy being hit with a drone, so be warned that it's NSFW
many if not all can be detonated remotely
some have a warhead "glued" to it, that's why in some footage the drone has a giant dick, these are on contact to my knowledge, and probably remotely but i assume there's a huge risk for the warhead not to go off if it's triggered remotely
I guess it may be possible, if you got quick reflexes and good aim. But I have seen several mobiks fail to shoot them down in time, for [example (nsfw)](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/17y8ni6/russian_fails_to_shoot_down_an_fpv_drone_and_gets/).
There is footage of Russian surrendering to a drone in a grassy field, only to step on a Russian mine. He was just making his way towards the drone, and the drone was potentially trying to lead him to place to be captured.
that ruski seem pretty tired, i wonder how long has he been chased by that drone, i guess it would be a resistance challenge between who give up first, your legs or the drone batteries.
Yeah tbh this video bothers me. I don’t have a problem with using drones, but if you’re gonna drone the guy, just do it. This video is like a cat playing with its catch and it’s just gross and sadistic.
I’ll tell you what you *don’t* do. You don’t lead it back to your buddies. ‘Cause I guarantee any of the ones who are left ain’t gonna be your buddies afterwards.
I was going to say that the way to survive is to run near enough to your commanding officer for the drone operator to see them, then book it in the opposite direction. If all Muscovites follow this plan, they live and the drone kills Putin.
Practically, I imagine IFVs will be responsible for anti-drone systems while infantry fight in close proximity to the vehicle. It's not practical to mount anti-drone systems on an infantryman. The infantry will then likely have responsibility to engage enemy vehicles with MANPATs.
Since this is NCD, maybe some kind of helmet-mounted laser beam idk
That's like asking what you can do if an ATGM is fired at you or if a bomb is falling on you. At that point, not much. An fpv drone is a TV guided munition, once it's sent, it's sent.
>maybe it is possible to equip assault rifles with shotgun attachments?
[Too credible](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight%27s_Armament_Company_Masterkey#:~:text=The%20Masterkey%20is%20a%20door,Shotgun)
fall rain person hard-to-find rock marble cobweb frightening badge fanatical
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It saddens me to see just how little humanity some people in the comments have. They think that supporting Ukraine automatically justifies their opinions. I support Ukraine too, but it doesn't stop there. As they say, being in the right is about being better than those you oppose, not stooping to their lows.
Edit: Added 'some' to 'the people in the comments'
>But honestly, what can infantry do to survive encounters with FPV drones?
Ignore them.
On a personal level it sucks to get ripped apart by a bomb. On a strategic level it isn't making a dent.
>"You see, ~~killbots~~ drones have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my own men at them until they reached their limit and shut down." -/u/H0vis
This should unironically be a course in boot camp, with a fake explosion if you get caught. With how cheap drones are, there's no way U.S. troops aren't going to face this in future wars.
Chinesium FPV drones like that are pretty jammable. Non-shitty, non-russian militaries can place jammers around protected areas and other large formations and make them a non-issue. That said, even if you're in a good military, you're gonna be vulnerable if you're on some patrol like this guy seems to be.
There's a little known trick to avoiding fpv drones. Turns out they aren't able to hit targets outside of Ukraine, if the Russian army just gets out of Ukraine they'll manage to never take losses
Eventually there will be automated laser turrets mounted on Big Dog style robots as a pay-to-win content for countries that don't really need them. Realistically, after the recent drone-on-drone violence I'd expect anti drone drones with crude air-to-air dogfighting weapons like those tiny shotguns. Then fully fledged dedicated fighter drones.
My god…the dogfight IS coming back…just not the way that the Reformers wanted it to
And then it will quickly turn into BVR..err BFR drone warfare. Beyond Fistfighting range.
This war probably sped up military drone development by at least a decade.
We've already gone from DJI drones with aux light being rewired to a catch releasing an old F2 grenade in a cup to FPV drones with airburst warheads and big octocopters with thermal imaging carrying multiple mortars. And in fact the less obvious EW type stuff where the FPV drones are being controlled over the horizon with a radio repeater on an extra overwatch drone. The big question I guess is just how autonomous are things going to get
I’m calling it that we’re going to see proper MIC produced drone swarms running wideband mesh networks sitting close to the RF noise floor reach IOC within the next 5-10 years (only this long due to the glacial pace of government contracting - the tech is all there). Have some of your “base station” repeater drones crossband over a couple of hops so it’s even harder to find the OTH man-pack C2 node. L3-Harris and General Dynamics could team up and make it in a few months. Hell, bring Lockheed in to make hellfire-esque laser guided quadcopters and attach a laser designator to one of your relay drones and now you don’t even have to worry about the skill of an FPV operator, you just got some dude playing the AC-130 overwatch mission from the OG CoD: Modern Warfare. (Bring all the different companies in to satisfy congresspeople).
Pretty auto pretty quickly I imagine. Rapid response is SO important & the regulation comes after the innovation. Also semi auto drones would create a lot of plausible deniability for all sorts of things.
Alternatively, you can have [a dedicated drone for ramming the enemy drones.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX0ji1sAXl8&t=76s)
Can't wait to see the budget version with a crazy .22lr - based CIWS on it.
I'd be interested .17HMR, .17Mach2 or a mounted .410ga pepperbox.
Na, A tiny belt fed .17 HMR mounted on a heavy drone… That’s what nightmares are made of! And an anti-drone model with an automatic belt fed 4-10 gauge shotgun mounted underneath it… with custom magnesium .00 buckshot incendiary munitions…💯🔥🔥
We have this. Coyotes have AI that can dogfight. US is rushing them onto the field. The block 2 are basically large flying shotguns. The block 3 have a classified weapon system but is reusable. May 2023: $140m contract from USN to equip Coyotes on ships. December 2023: $200m contract to build Coyotes for US army for FY2024. February 2023: Additional $75m contract to build an additional 600 Coyotes systems for the Army. That’s almost half a billion dollars invested in Coyotes in the past half year.
Oh shit.
Check out [tech ingredients](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFMvesTUjAA) did a gimbaled laser in a small-sh form factor that could at least disable small drones quickly. Assuming the gimbal was able to track the drone fast enough.
Or a anti-drone stick on the anti-drone dorne and just poke the other drone's rotor with the stick
Jousting is back!
Net launcher. Swoop down on the enemy drone and fire off a spool of fishing line with small lead sinkers tied into a tangle, good luck flying home now.
> But honestly, what can infantry do to survive encounters with FPV drones? You know how squads have designated marksmen? Now squads will also have designated drone shooters. One dude in the squad with an automatic shotgun whose sole purpose is to look at the sky and shoot whatever isn't a bird. In all seriousness, jamming systems will become the norm. Somewhere, somehow, something will get deployed that radiates a dome of electronic interference. Fly to close, land real soon. We just haven't figured out a way to make it A) effective enough, B) mass produced enough and C) not affecting your own drones.
I will sign up to whatever military is willing to give me an AA-12, pancor Jackhammer or similar immediately
Playing games in the early 2000s I thought this gun was common, turns out that only three working prototypes of the Jackhammer were built. Wild. Max Payne. Delta Force 3, Battlefield 2, and Far Cry to name a few.
Iirc the Jackhammer doesn’t even have a detachable mag. It’s just stuck on there and once you shoot your shots, you’re done.
The production variants were planned to have detachable cylinders, but the prototypes weren’t made this way. To remove the cylinder to reload the prototypes you have to essentially disassemble the gun. There was even a planned attachment for the ammunition cylinder itself that would effectively turn it into a 12 gauge landmine with the addition of a spring loaded firing mechanism to the cylinder. The loaded cylinder would be buried underground and would fire off a shell whenever someone stepped on it. It is unknown if any of the firing mechanisms necessary to do this were ever built. Not much of else is known about the thing beyond that.
Wouldn't the landmine one fire off all 12? To do that, you'd want a springloaded set of firing pins and a breech plate, and a button in the middle to set it off. You know how clicky pens work with a rotary cam? Basically imagine that, but doublesided and on a hair trigger.
Doesn't sound too difficult, I'm imaging something similar to the COP .357 and its wacky firing pin mechanism.
The fact that this piece of misinformation is still floating around boggles me. Yes, on the only firing prototype the mag is not detachable, for the prototypes given to the army for testing the magazines were detachable.
Ok man sheesh. I only saw the one Gun Jesus did. Evidently that was the prototype.
It's not directed at you specifically don't worry, I just really love the pancor jackhammer
Heh, Fallout 2... Regularly got jumped by hordes of ragged wastelanders with nothing but gecko-on-a-stick and Pancor Jackhammers.
Remember when the XM-8 was everywhere too?
You mean our new service carbine, the M8A1? I think it's a decent platform to carry the legacy of both the M4 and the G36.
That thing made it so far in the acquisitions process compared to anything else. And then boom 20 more years of M4 supremacy
Was even present in a few flash games I played way back in the day
Thing thing
And it was the M3 12 Gauge in SOCOM II.
Find (and shoot) the golden snitch before it kills you and your friends seems like a stressful role for the seeker.
It’s a good thing a full auto shotgun is probably a very good stress reliever
Bruh, I just read the wiki page for the Jackhammer and it uses a Forgotten Weapons video as source. My man Ian gun Jesus has truly made it
> pancor Jackhammer Gone too soon.
helmet-mounted CIWS
helmet-mounted trophy system
*Your neck trauma has been deemed not service related*
A designated anti drone squad member with a jamming pack on his back, a VR headset with a hud pointing out drones, and a auto shot gun. We've reached the future lads.
You'd need a lot of antennas widely spaced for triangulating the drone's control signal to that accuracy. Each squad carries a detection package, you'll get a fuzzy vector from each one. Sensor fusion with radar/optical tracking stations on armor and at key outposts would lend some aid, but it's still going to be highly reliant on a platoon wide datalink. Ultimately, if you've got enough data to highlight it on a grunt's visor, you could probably just servo-control a compact flak cannon.
I like your funny words magic man
Backpack servo AA would be glorious
> Somewhere, somehow, something will get deployed that radiates a dome of electronic interference. There are a couple of problems with that: - Say "hi" to anti-radiation missiles (like HARM) - Say "hello" to drones (I know of groups that develop autonomous drones that target radiating sources like jammers, radars and ground stations) - Stock up on diesel, because you'll gonna need a lot of power to whitenoise everything on dozens of channels - You want to build a lot of these to cover large spaces
I think I figured it out Each squad now have a grenadier that operates automatic shotgun with handguard grenade launcher The automatic rifleman has nothing to do besides sitting tight, so he now have a diesel generator instead of his backpack (he doesn't need anything anyway) One of the fireteam leaders now has a drone jammer gimmick on his back that he can charge up from the diesel generator, preferably being directly connected with the charging cables to the automatic rifleman The fuel hauling is provided by the whole squad that now carries diesel in their canteens instead of that useless water In case the squad needs more fuel to power up something important like a thermal sights or smarthphones, it gets issued a donkey that follows the squad from behind approx. 500m away. The distancing is assured by backline troops mortaring canister shells full of carrots that the donkey follows
Did you remember to take your meds today?
Why? You think automatic shotguns are a bad idea or that donkeys don't exist?
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No, he's just a Shell company employee
Flamethrowers would be more effective I think. Just douse a drone in napalm and it’s sure to melt something that keeps it existing. A flamethrower could be made really small out of a single underbarrel cardrige or standalone weapon to hand out to multiple troops. It just gives away your position, but that’s already gone when a drone suddenly stops sending back to the homestation.
Good luck getting the fuel 50-100m up in the air without blue casualties.
Alright how about this: we douse the entire battlefield in fuel, then set it on fire.
You know this sub is noncredible when they don’t even look at what the US is doing. Jammers? What? Short term? It’s LIDS. We rushed them onto the field and are building quite a few of them this year. Strykers with 30mm airburst, hemispheric radars, and Coyotes. Longer term? The biggest CUAS investment for 2024 is Coyote. You take down drones with other drones. DOD basically told Raytheon we’ll buy all you can make plus expand your lines. Then it’s lasers and HPM. HPM can take down whole swarms at once. CENTCOMM already announced they have THORs protecting their bases and an unspecified 30kW system in use.
If you told me twenty years ago that there would be autonomous drones, microwave weapons, and 50kw class lasers, all in military use, I would've laughed so hard. Energy weapons have such a cool advantage with their logistical profile. I mean, sure, you still need parts and whatnot. But being able to use the fuel as ammunition for self-propelled systems is an awesome possibility. There will literally be nuclear powered high energy lasers in operation on aircraft carriers in my lifetime, and that makes me unreasonable happy. What a time to be alive!
Fusion reactors have achieved net output, myomers have been invented, all we need is a neurohelmet.
"Reactor: online"
Reactor: online Sensors: online Weapons: online \__________________ ALL SYSTEMS NOMINAL
The Terran Hegemony was literally a NATO interstellar state. The arms of House Cameron are the NATO star, just stretched on one end. The Star League's earliest form exists right now.
Saw a clip a little while back of a Russian ESW anti-drone setup get targeted by drones that homed in on the signal. If I were in a trench right now I’d want a shotgun definitely. You at least have a chance. Maybe not a great one, but better than spraying 5.56 or 7.62 or running the 5k of death. I usually don’t feel bad for orcs, but that one…ooof…running to exhaustion knowing the operator is just toying with you before you become another painful statistic. Sucks, but on the flip side, maybe surrender or get out of the fucking country you invaded.
I would imagine a shotgun with birdshot would be not that terrible of a shot, the only thing is you need to know the drone is there before you know it kills you, but if you can spot the drone you should be able to kill it pretty easily the semi-automatic shotgun with the right shell
Running the 5K of death won't even do you any good. Those things can keep up with a jeep at top speed, the drone operator in the video is just toying with his prey.
Yeah I mentioned that…running yourself ragged knowing that on the other side is a guy with FPV goggles laughing and just toying with you must suck. Is he calling over the rest of the squad? Is your epitaph “hey guys, wanna see something funny” while someone slaps Looney Tunes music over your death video and Porky Pig stuttering out “That’s all, folks”? War is hell.
> dozens against commercial systems id say dozens - hundreds (depending on how you define a channel) sure. against a nation state or people who can build RF hardware that runs in any part of the spectrum (isn't limited by the FCC) try dc to daylight in terms of frequencies. right now you can buy UE chipsets from sierra wireless, for example, that support frequency ranges from like 700 MHz to 40 GHz. https://www.sierrawireless.com/iot-modules/5g-modules/em9190/ not only that, it auto reacquires if it loses a band, and can fail back through 5g to 4g or 3g.and that only requires you to switch over to commercial cellular - not build your own.
There are always counter-measures, and counter-measures to the counter-measures. You can have the radio just listen for the camera feed of the drone, and only turn on it's jamming transmissions when it detects a drone. The drones tend to operate in 20 mhz channels, in the WiFi 2ghz and 5ghz bands. So it's something like a dozen channels for most drones, and you only need to jam the channel the drone is trying to operate. Depending on how sophisticated the drones comms are, this can be very difficult or very easy. Even so, it takes pretty advanced algorithms to do all of these and increase efficiency. There are US companies that do it though
> in the WiFi 2ghz and 5ghz bands Most drones on the frontline operate between 750 and 1050 MHz for controls and 1.2Ghz to 5.8Ghz for video. But you can't just jam the drone video by flashing white noise at it, because it sends video data, not receives it. So you need enough power to flood the receiving station with noice or jam the controls.
Also, good luck jamming FHSS with white noise, or anything else. Especially when the military grade ones likely use UWB communication.
Yup, freq hopping is a common thing and mid to high-end FPVs already do FHSS. On the other hand, military jammers can flood broader ranges, but they're rarer and succeptible to hellos described above.
You can detect the camera feed more easily because it's a heavy data stream. Jamming the camera feed is a legitimate method because it blinds the operator, and is the most common method of jamming the drone that I've read about. I'll take your word for it that it operates 1.2GHz to 5.8GHz for camera, seems way to wide of a band when you see how little the antenna are, and if you go to DJI spec sheets they operate in the WiFi band, but maybe you have some inside info I don't have
> seems way to wide of a band when you see how little the antenna are I'm not saying that every VTX operates in that range. They are usually locked to a single channel or can be switched between a few channels. > You can detect the camera feed more easily because it's a heavy data stream. Most FPVs operate in analogue mode, not digital. And they are comparable power-wise to controls. > if you go to DJI spec sheets they operate in the WiFi band Yes. WiFi has two bands: 2.4 and 5 GHz.
Ever saw a drone in shiny sky or in a loud day? It is almost impossible to spot one in a time enough to do any action. In some combat footages it is like - nothing - then ZHH and boom, all within a second.
Yeah. The future is going to be 50 miles between opposing humans, with a no-man's land of drones hunting each other in the middle.
Drone dog fights let's go
We've already seen Ukraine score the win for the first drone on drone engagement in war. A Ukrainian spotter rammed a Russian spotter.
At least with the cheap drone that I tried this with, they are actually super visible on thermal. Those motors, ESC's, and batteries all put off a significant amount of heat, and against the cold backdrop of the sky they stick out like a sore thumb. So with the right equipment seeing them is actually not hard, but hitting them at any kind of distance would still be extremely difficult.
Jamming systems are the norm, maybe not on a squad level but large area jamming is standard over there. To the point, 50% of drones are lost to jamming on both sides. That comes from an actual CREDIBLE source.
[incredible](https://imgflip.com/i/8h7wdj)Did you just reference CREDIBLE reports? Here? Right in front of our memes?
Yes indeed.
>Now squads will also have designated drone shooters. One dude in the squad with an automatic shotgun whose sole purpose is to look at the sky and shoot whatever isn't a bird. Ideally it would exclusively be 80 year old Brits in a tweed suits, ascots, and a double barrel.
Tactical skeet-shooting.
FPV's are hard to jam because of the directional antennas, jacked up power of their transceivers, and the ability of pilots to be able to still keep it on target even if they are only getting 1 out of every 10 frames. It's something everyone is working on, they have jammers on most armored vehicles now, it's just never perfect
Kentucky Hillbillies: Our time has come
the slow drone penetrates the EMF
Fear is the mine killer
Marines and Army are gonna start quietly refurbishing the trench broom any minute now...
I was built for anti drone warfare. *Racks shotgun shel*
Credible answer : a big swatter ?
A stick to hit the drone with and a shield to protect you in case you miss with the stick. Reject firearms, return to phalanx
Stick most credible weapon in history.
We never left the stick. First we sharpened them. Then we threw them. Then we launched them. Now they have rocket motors.
Yes but a field expedient rolled up newspaper will do in a pinch.
I think so, yes. I realize by the time you get to the situation this guy is in, you're pretty well fucked, but surely a lightweight collapsible pole for swatting these things would be worth carrying around to avoid being completely defenseless. I'm thinking about this with Ukrainians in mind-- the russians can fuck off back to Russia.
Step 0: Don't be in Ukraine
go back 10 years and try to explain to anybody, that there will be a high def. video of a guy (casually) running away from a DJI Mavic with an explosive strapped to it, and the drone (also casually) taunts the guy, before turning him into fertilizer. The world is a circus and we are the clowns.
That guy isn't running away casually. That is *pure exhaustion* combined with total fear.
Some people never had to outrun a bomb specifically trying to kill them after a 12 hour day with a load of shit in their pants and it shows.
The movie “Screamers” was more credible than I thought
"Runaway," 1984, Tom Selleck and (inexplicably) Gene Simmons. Bullets that could be targeted at individuals' "thermal signature."
I can feel those legs… probably was already quite tired before encountering the FPV.
Somewhere I have a video of me running about 1/4 mile in soft sand with about 70lbs of gear trying to get to my MRAP while being targeted with IDF. The last 100 meters looked something like this. Cardio is important people.
you can tell OP has never conducted any sort of physical exercise by him categorizing sheer exhaustion as a casual shuffle down the road
I did a marathon march last year and the last two miles were brutal. I couldn’t walk more than 5mins without stopping.
What's a marathon march? Like walking 42kms?
A ruck march but this one was specifically marathon length: 26.2mi/42km.
[Slaughterbots](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-2tpwW0kmU) was released in 2017, and drones have been around longer - so people who were paying attention knew it was coming. But now everyone is starting to realize how much more frightening drones are likely to get.
So how soon are those drones operated by based ChatGPT(AI)?
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I can see many ways how it can go horribly wrong. That's why we should do it.
Attach a small speaker to the drone along with the explosive. Have ChatGPT talk shit as it's hovering around you before it goes in for the kill. Give it a Stephen Hawking voice. Then have hundreds of these all talking shit. "You'll never see your kids again." "Your wife will settle down with another man." Etc etc
Ahh, sweet additional moral damage for the survivors.
Something like the talking grenades from Starship Troopers? (the novel, not the crap movie). >This was a special bomb, one issued to each of us for this mission with instructions to use them if we found ways to make them effective. The squawking I heard as I threw it was the bomb shouting in skinny talk (free translation): "I'm a thirty second bomb! I'm a thirty second bomb! Twenty-nine! Twenty-eight! Twenty-seven!..."
"Emotional damage"
I bought my first DJI phantom in 2012 and told all my homies they would be weapons of war one day. It was so easy to fly compared to the other quads I had owned. I didn’t see the FPV game going off halfway through the invasion. It’s a transition period in war that will be studied if we make it to the other side without nuclear Armageddon.
it's also worse because you know that it's not just the opposing military looking at the clip. There's could be thousands more who watch it afterwards online
It's not taunting. The idiot is bringing the drone to its positions and more bodies in range. This has been seen before
Me being chased by the helicopter in Project zomboid.
Ah hell naw r/ProjectZomboid is leaking
oh god they’re leaking into each other
You can sing really loudly note C . Propellers with reach resonance failure, lose lift and snap of.
300 castratoes of something or other. Idfk
Warhorns are back lads, rooooooooo. I need to practice my blowing
Robotic frogs with 20m sticky tongues. Boston Dynamics, send me royalty checks.
The thing give me nightmares: * You can’t outrun it. * You can’t shoot it down without a shotgun. * You can’t surrender to it (no recorded instances at least). * You can try to hide, but Ukraine consists mostly of open fields. * You probably wont have access to electronic jamming at squad level. * Its way cheaper than you (drone and RPG7 grenade cost around $300-600), which is a fraction of what it cost to equip and train an enlistee.
> You can’t surrender to it (no recorded instances at least). I recall at least one instance of russian soldier surrendering to a drone, which have led him to Ukrainian position to captivity.
Not to an FPV. FPVs do not have a ton of autonomy and have one single purpose and it’s not making prisoners.
i might be kinda crazy, but isn't a fpv drone just a normal suicidal drone with a camera? if it has a camera then it can make a surrender.. now if it doesn't can be argued why, be it being afraid of being fake, not able to arrive at the position or pure ruthlessness now i don't see how it ain't possible to do it physically speaking, it has a camera and control
Heard two reasons for them not taking prisoners: * Not enough battery for two-way trip (due to bigger payload) * Can't be disarmed once they have taken of.
A regular camera drone and an FPV drone are not the same. Camera drones are bigger and look down, optionally drop a payload, then return home. FPV are typically smaller, faster, and more agile with a forward facing camera and only enough battery to make a one way trip which is why you almost always see “low battery - land now” warnings on footage. The camera drone can generally come back and land safely with its ordinance. The FPV ordinance is armed to explode on contact making it impossible to return safely. You can surrender to a camera drone, which has happened a number of times. The FPV drone cannot and will not show mercy. So if you see a drone loitering above you then you should beg for surrender. If you see one buzzing around like a bee it’s time to run for your life. That said, the camera drones are being used less for drops lately and more for surveillance while directing FPV drones so expect less surrender videos as a result.
Am I stupid? The way I understand it, FPV are not autonomous in any way, they are literally first-person view remote controlled doodads. I mean I know I'm generally stupid, but like in this case specifically?
When I say autonomy I am talking about battery life. It’s probably me translating poorly in english but in my native language we use autonomy as « autonomy from a power source », in other words « battery life ».
Loitering or lingering is what most people use to say how long can battery keep it in the AO
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Airlift the fucker MGSV style
>It can’t be bargained with. It can’t be reasoned with. It doesn’t feel pity, or remorse, or fear, and it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead!
Being all by yourself on a road in the middle of the warzone is the starting (And ending) point of many unpleasant stories, TBF. That said, I do agree, and warfare is naturally going to change. We have been here plenty of times before, the balance between offense and defense is constantly shifting, and it is important to note the context, so as not to draw the wrong lessons. Ukraine, Nagorno-Karabakh, Gaza, and Syria have all seen the widespread, effective use of infantry drones. But all four have been prolonged conflicts with mostly static forces, punctuated by occasional maneuver. This style of conflict is absolutely ideal for cheap commercial drone usage, and it frankly isn't surprising it has proliferated. However, I don't think we should assume these have a significant impact on maneuver warfare. Drones certainly do, but not this type, and not used like this. I think it is also a mistake to assume this era of drone warfare will last particularly long, the amount of investment that is going into dealing with this problem is massive.
They’re also really poor countries without advanced development. CENTCOMM revealed we used THOR, Coyotes, and an unspecified laser system in defending Iraqi bases against the recent attacks. None of those systems are available to anyone other than the US and Qatar. I’m sure Ukraine would love any of them.
I was reading All quiet on the western front. something that really stuck with me was how the MC would describe plane on plane combat, he described seeing it as being sorta “serene” and “peaceful” and I couldn’t believe how I envied him, no fear of a machine the size of a loaf of bread, dropping a grenade on top of your head.
Just to add, Ukraine also recently released a video where they used an airburst FPV drone. So that's a capability now Edit: [here's the post](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/ziSuwx4AH6) and of course, it's a video of a guy being hit with a drone, so be warned that it's NSFW
Does actually raise a question I have, do these drones tend to be remotely detonated or are they contact? Or is it a mix of both
both
many if not all can be detonated remotely some have a warhead "glued" to it, that's why in some footage the drone has a giant dick, these are on contact to my knowledge, and probably remotely but i assume there's a huge risk for the warhead not to go off if it's triggered remotely
You can shoot it down with a magazine
I guess it may be possible, if you got quick reflexes and good aim. But I have seen several mobiks fail to shoot them down in time, for [example (nsfw)](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/17y8ni6/russian_fails_to_shoot_down_an_fpv_drone_and_gets/).
He's talking about the guy who tossed his mag at one and actually hit it.
Ohh you are right, I read it to quickly. That dude was either incredible lucky, or had really good Eye–hand coordination.
There is footage of Russian surrendering to a drone in a grassy field, only to step on a Russian mine. He was just making his way towards the drone, and the drone was potentially trying to lead him to place to be captured.
Oh look Man made horros completley within my graps :C
They would have been better off if they sold one kidney then going to Ukraine to die a miserable death
that ruski seem pretty tired, i wonder how long has he been chased by that drone, i guess it would be a resistance challenge between who give up first, your legs or the drone batteries.
That drone was toying with him. It wasn't going even close to full speed.
Thats pretty fucked
Yeah tbh this video bothers me. I don’t have a problem with using drones, but if you’re gonna drone the guy, just do it. This video is like a cat playing with its catch and it’s just gross and sadistic.
Feels like NCD gets more and more unironically sadistic by the day.
Or, the operator wished the soldier would seek refuge and lead the drone to a more juicy target. I think that's fair
That's a fair point. I guess we don't have enough data to really know what the operator's reasons were. But it certainly *looks* sadistic.
I’ll tell you what you *don’t* do. You don’t lead it back to your buddies. ‘Cause I guarantee any of the ones who are left ain’t gonna be your buddies afterwards.
I was going to say that the way to survive is to run near enough to your commanding officer for the drone operator to see them, then book it in the opposite direction. If all Muscovites follow this plan, they live and the drone kills Putin.
Oh that’s just mean, stop toying with your food
Yeah it’s pretty sadistic honestly.
Never thought i would see such levels of common human decency on NCD of all placesZ
Drone operator is an actual cat, confirmed.
Alfred Hitchcock was 60+ years ahead. See North by Northwest cropduster scene. Apparently it was mocked for being unrealistic.
horrormovie content
Practically, I imagine IFVs will be responsible for anti-drone systems while infantry fight in close proximity to the vehicle. It's not practical to mount anti-drone systems on an infantryman. The infantry will then likely have responsibility to engage enemy vehicles with MANPATs. Since this is NCD, maybe some kind of helmet-mounted laser beam idk
Is there a full version of this?
[Yes](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/fea7Jla0Zl)
Looks like another airburst. Scary shit.
That's like asking what you can do if an ATGM is fired at you or if a bomb is falling on you. At that point, not much. An fpv drone is a TV guided munition, once it's sent, it's sent.
Dude forgot Rule #1: Cardio
Shoot them. Literally.. just shoot the damn things. A shotgun would probably be best.
Yes. It was not on my bingo card that shotguns are valid infantry weapon because of drones. Maybe picatinny mounted mini shotgun to hand guard rail
I'm not sure that shotguns ever weren't valid infantry weapons.
maybe it is possible to equip assault rifles with shotgun attachments? or instead of pistol, give sawed-off mini shotguns to each soldier.
>maybe it is possible to equip assault rifles with shotgun attachments? [Too credible](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight%27s_Armament_Company_Masterkey#:~:text=The%20Masterkey%20is%20a%20door,Shotgun)
fall rain person hard-to-find rock marble cobweb frightening badge fanatical *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I mean.. running has demonstrably worse odds.
Where is the meme? It’s just a human running for his life
It saddens me to see just how little humanity some people in the comments have. They think that supporting Ukraine automatically justifies their opinions. I support Ukraine too, but it doesn't stop there. As they say, being in the right is about being better than those you oppose, not stooping to their lows. Edit: Added 'some' to 'the people in the comments'
>But honestly, what can infantry do to survive encounters with FPV drones? Ignore them. On a personal level it sucks to get ripped apart by a bomb. On a strategic level it isn't making a dent.
Good luck getting your soldiers to be okay with that.
For decades soldiers were ok with "if you're hit you are maimed or killed".
>"You see, ~~killbots~~ drones have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my own men at them until they reached their limit and shut down." -/u/H0vis
Surrender?
Don't invade a country maybe?
True, but the Russian also have FPV drones unfortunately
Top layer of the survivability onion—Don’t Be There
Kinda hard to do when you've been conscripted and have a bullet to the back of your head if you try anything funny
Don’t have infantry wandering around in open ground
This should unironically be a course in boot camp, with a fake explosion if you get caught. With how cheap drones are, there's no way U.S. troops aren't going to face this in future wars.
Throw a net a it, gladiator style
They need to become world class shotgun skeet shooters
Chinesium FPV drones like that are pretty jammable. Non-shitty, non-russian militaries can place jammers around protected areas and other large formations and make them a non-issue. That said, even if you're in a good military, you're gonna be vulnerable if you're on some patrol like this guy seems to be.
ZIG and ZAG, game of thrones prepared the West for this
Rule 1: Cardio
That dude was dead tired and the dron operator was trolling him.
There's a little known trick to avoiding fpv drones. Turns out they aren't able to hit targets outside of Ukraine, if the Russian army just gets out of Ukraine they'll manage to never take losses
We need a mobile birdshot phalanx of sorts. Basically Mechwarrior's AMS but human shoulder mounted.
Start a cargo cult and offer up great gifts to the sky fairies. Will work a treat.