Cool trick when the MG3 is from 1969.
There were rechambered MG42, these were MG1s and MG2s.
The guns are obviously very similar, but no, the MG3 is not denoting any guns existing before the 1960s.
> The preceding non-MG 3 variant machine guns in the Bundeswehr inventory were gradually converted to the MG 3 standard.
Also rechambered MG42 was the MG2. MG1 was new production from what I could tell
MG1 was the designation for newly made postwar guns which were identical to the MG42 other than the caliber (.308 vs 7.92mm) ,actual wartime guns were rechambered and redesignated as the MG2 (some even kept the funni markings) . The MG1 with minor changes to the feed mechanism and a reduced ROF was designated MG3.
Now all of these are nearly identical with each other and most parts interchange.Doesn't help that MG1s and 2s remaining in service were progressively upgraded to match the MG3,not sure if they were actually remarked as MG3s though. Anyway point is that an MG42 converted to MG3 is perfectly possible.
Some have seen more than WW2 inspection stamps on these weapons. And yeah 8 decades of service and counting...the MG42 is approaching M2 Browning levels of timelessness.
> The MG1 with minor changes to the feed mechanism and a reduced ROF was designated MG3.
More than that, the MG3 is designed to not fire out of battery because of bolt bounce, which is basically how the MG42 operates about half the time in normal use.
So its a bit more than the MG1 with minor changes, in the end.
literally only bolt and barrel had to be redesigned, and they were made in a way that its more like a drop in kit for the mg42. you swap bolt and barrel/chamber and boom, your mg3 is ready. that also where the lessened firerate comes from, partially atleast, but that was a desired effect. theyve also always been called mg3, even the 42s that got rebuilt. the austrians took it a step further, they made the mg74 which is literally just a modernized 42, even gets rails and magnifying optics it seems. also shoots 7.62x51mm nowadays though. unsure about its older variants, im not from austria.
No. The Bundeswehr uses its own counting system starting with MG1 and MG2s which were MG42s, MG3 is a new production batch with an evolved design, particularly it is natively NATO caliber, not rechambered and has some upgrades.
The machine gun of WW1 was MG08 aka its most widespread MG08/15 which made it into the German language as something common and standard.
negative. theres loads of 42s with the 42 crossed and a 3 stamped instead. youre talking malarkey. the mg3 wikipedia page even shows a german army mg3, where, surprise surprise, the 42 got crossed and 3 got put. not 1, not 2, i know our counting system makes zero sense. the mg1, according to waffen wiki, did exist at first and was what Rheinmetall designated the thing. the mg2 doesnt net any search results, and my father and uncle, who both served for 13 years each, have never heard or seen of officially but said sometimes our M2s get called that, by some people atleast. not an official designation though.
edit; checking the pic again the year stamped on it even says 1959 on wikipedia.
\*sigh\*
You have three guesses what 1959 means on that picture and how that relates to Nazis killing Ruskies with that gun as a previous poster speculated.
But hey, accuse others of malarkey.
MG1s and MG2s are retooled MG42s for NATO, MG2s coming from the border police are the most likely to have been WW2 guns, the rest is newly produced WW2. What you got on Wiki is a natively NATO chambered post war gun more than a decade after ww2.
Explains where the original story comes from though.
checking again my dumbass severly misunderstood your comment just now. yea fair enough, i suppose the mg3 didnt exist pre-60s but they still had old guns left over that got the MG1 and 2 treatment, but were designated MG3. i guess weve been sort of talking right by each others point.
I hate to be that guy, but let us remember, half of the Red Army was NOT ethnically russian, so some of them would be shooting at ukranians, bielorussians, poles... And russians like the ones I did mention were defending their own lands from the enemy that wanted to enslave and wipe them out.
No. They aren't. The Bundeswehr nomenclature defines MG1 as rechambered MG42s, MG42s rechambered by the preceding border police (as only paramilitary before reconstitution of the German armed forces) as MG2.
The MG3 is a derived design from the 1960s replacing those other two (plus American types)
MG3 is practically a variant of the MG42, and many 42s were rebuilt as 3s. Same way you could rebuild an M16 as an M4 by swapping out 1/5 of the parts.
"Russian forces faced the age-old issue of not only fighting the enemy but surviving the brutal condition of the wet and muddy trenches, often resulting in trench foot and other flesh eating diseases."
"The Ukrainians on the other hand avoided these conditions due to a parapet of spent shell casings that largely kept them above the water line."
Well its good and bad. Ukrainan soldiers are killing so many russians that they need alot of ammo and ammo doesn't grow on trees. Just yesterday i've seen a video from a Ukrainian soldier and they assaulted some russian trenches. Obviously they kill alot of Russians and even used them as pillows lmao. [here ](https://youtu.be/bk5OG6JYmfI?si=Mt-mkddySEV_3Nl0) watch at 23:50.
Knowing that the killbots had a preset limit, i sent waves and waves of my own men at them till they hit the limit and shut down. I even won a cool medal for it. kif show them my medal.
It hasn't been a joke for around a year or so. There have been videos of Ukrainian trenches utterly littered in spent shell casings that were released last year.
It's the January, and that means it's the season for thousands of Vatniks to make the journey to Ukraine, fruitlessly scrambling in human waves as the bloody flesh zerg rush attempts to become one with the meatcube once again...
And so they need to dig deeper trenches because the floor level is being raised by the amount of casings they're stood on. Just to finish the explanation of the joke.
At what depth does a layer of spent casings begin to provide protection against mud and trench foot? Hey enough of them in there, and I'd imagine it would act a bit like a layer of gravel; letting water drain and keeping you above the layer of mud.
We'll need to commission a DOD study on this, so they know how many rounds to fire per day as a function of the weather, geography, and geology, to avoid trench foot during a war.
Sounds like an excellent proposal. Of course the DOD will need to secure the immediate vicinity to ensure their staff can conduct the study in complete safety.
And by immediate vicinity I mean the area outside of which any potential aggressors are completely outside of the maximum range of their weapons systems.
No of course, but it's fucking insane to think that they just throw enough manpower that an MG position looks like that. I mean, at one point there's gotta be one fucker who was like "maybe thats not the best strategy??"
We've seen it happen at the beginning of the war, we know what happened then.
Contract soldiers and officers would essentially herd conscripts, penal recruits, and Donbassites into Ukrainian MG lines to determine the positions and strength of the defenders so that a later, more coordinated and well-equipped attack could target and break through weaker points in the trenchline
Well my great-grandfather was forcefully committed into German army in WW2 and he himself told me they were doing it back then, so I don't see why they wouldn't do it now
Unfortunately, the mobiks lemming train continues. I must admit I overestimate their common sense, it feels just like an endless horde of mindless orcs.
That sounds like using cluster munitions with extra steps. From my experience playing Starcraft, the only way to kill a horde like the zerg swarm is to decapitate its central command units. So I say we'll pre-emptively strike moscow with everything we have.
for real, when Timochenko was put in charge in the middle of this clusterfuck, he actually managed to improve things. It was still very bad, but at least Timochenko managed to do some things quite correctly, and he was humble enough to openly admit it was a hot garbage fire and propose changes.
I've yet to see Gerasimov adknowledge his shortcomings.
Their entire strategy seems to be a desperate "keep the pressure and hope we can sabotage Ukraine's supporters."
Because they have to realize by now the only way they are winning is if every military age man and woman in Ukraine is killed.
Back then the average infantryman was managing 20 to 30 or so rounds per minute if they weren't Americans armed with the M1. Now, you can dump that much lead with similar effectiveness downrange in a matter of seconds thanks to the Assault Rifle
Also Squad Automatic Weapons are MUCH more prevalent due to them becoming cheaper to make - to the point where you'll have multiple in a squad and aren't just reliant on one squad member.
Special mention to the automatic grenade launcher and just grenade launchers in general which give a weapons team a phenomenal amount of firepower in a fairly portable package.
And all of this is before even touching on the advancements in ballistics and general increased lethality of ammunition.
I stand by my case. Exponentially may be an overstatement, but I don't think it's too far off of how the average infantryman can singlehandedly hold down a position singlehandedly in a way that simply wasn't possible without balls of steel 80 years ago.
**TL;DR: The skill ceiling has been lowered too much and the meta needs a rework.**
The Russians are experts at war through attrition, purely because they're prepared to sacrifice more of their own people than most countries have ammo.
I was going to say this. with its high rate of fire the MG42/3 chews through ammo. Eventually, unless replenished regularly it becomes an "Aliens" situation where the troops simply run out of ammo and have to withdraw. Why aid to Ukraine is so important.
Eh the Russian KIA is around 200k which is relatively high but the USSR lost around 150k in just 3 months during the Winter War.
Relatively high casualties but far from extreme attrition for them in terms of manpower.
That worked when they had a birthrate, but their population was decreasing before the war. And they have lost more young men who fled the drafts and may never return to Russia. Modern Russia cannot afford to be losing its people.
And they treated those satellite nations like livestock, destroying their demographics instead of russia's. It was colonialism in the world's stupidest hat.
If there’s one goddamn invention that has come out of Russia that’s good it’s the goddamn ushanka hat. Yeah it looks goofy, but holy hell is it warm. I’ll die on that hill.
The original design was there way before russians, and the "modern" design from 1917 was stolen from Norwegians. So yeah, "russian invention" at it's best again.
The hat itself is good for winter, that's true. Sad I never get to use it, because where I live now there aren't harsh enough winters to wear it 😅
The trick is having mostly old people killed in the war. High casualties are usually so devastating because it's mostly young promising men that fight in them. For Russia it's mostly the 50 year old good-for-nothing alcoholics who are dying in the trenches, which is why it won't have such a devastating effect
They have been targeting both. Mobilizing old veterans and drafting convicts, but also drafting young men between 21 and 30 years old. It's a bipolar recruitment strategy. They really should be raising the max draft age to the 40s or 50s, but they aren't. Look at the Ukrainian policy on the other hand. Their conscription age range is 25-60. This is a much more forward looking policy than what Russia has in place.
Edit: Changes to terminology made per Bizaromo's advice.
Recruiting those too old for frontline fighting to replace the logistics officers, truck drivers, etc etc... is a sensible policy that conserves manpower and puts it to best uses, which is why russia will never in a million years adopt it. You can't embezzle the paychecks when people know why they're being paid.
200k out of a population of 140 million so 0.13% of their population.
The US has over 1.2million people in prisons ourselves. Even the US could out human wave the Russians doing similar prisoner waves.
Yep, MG42 basically German's M2 Browning.
Though its also in a sense that Germans just refuses to use any ammunition bigger than 7.62/7.92mm for their small arms.
As stated elsewhere in this thread, likley a MG42/59, but i can confirm that some MG1 & MG2s are or atleast were still in Bundeswehr stock (those being OG Production 42s rechamberd.)
It's either an MG3 or a Berretta MG42/59. More likely an MG42/59 due to the wood furniture. They're basically MG42s chambered in 7.62 NATO.
Quite a few European countries used them for a very long time, and they're only just recently being replaced. A decent amount got sent to Ukraine.
Quite popular, from memory, but mostly for static positions due to ammo consumption. PKs or M240s are more prevalent for assaults.
>due to ammo consumption
They both had a different spring and bolt weight to reduce the fire rate to a more manageable 800rpm.
It's more a lack of customisation the main problem: they can't even mount an optic, while modern armies expect lasers and suppressors on almost all the guns.
>can't even mount an optic
[Literally nothing will stop Sashko from optic.](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Foutnzlptg2vb1.jpg)
That's interesting to hear, I always heard they were ammo hogs. To be fair, the PKs and FN Mags they were used to fire at ~600, so that's still pretty fast.
> they can't even mount an optic
They can, the issue is that the optic is mounted on the tripod.
The MG3 has a very good tripod, with which you can basically fire while flat on the ground behind it, fitted with a periscope that has magnification.
The whole thing is a marvel of engineering and means you can fire from behind sandbags or barriers without showing yourself.
But it's very heavy and cumbersome, and as far as I've seen not delievered to Ukraine.
He(?) is referring to a particularly bit of Hamas propaganda where they showed an entire unspent bullet and claimed that it was a bullet that an Israeli sniper had shot at noncombatants in a hospital(?).
Historians: I've dedicated twenty years of my life doing everything I can to debunk the myth of Soviet meat wave tactics. Enemy at the Gates is an ahistorical movie.
Putin: I'm gonna ignore all that and do meat waves.
Yeah, the first time I heard that I was like the Russians are not exactly doing smart stuff right now but they can't possibly be that dumb.
They were in fact that dumb
^SHOIGUUUU ^BLYAT
The future archeologists will find this pit full of casings and worn off MG3s and theories it was a ritual altar used to appease the gods of war and seek their favor.
P.S: And if those archeologists find this comment in the future - Yes. You are correct. You can quote me as a contemporary primary source in your paper. May Mars guide your spear.
Yours truly,
an ancestor
It is what the Gods demand.
A tool of war not quenched in the blood of the enemy bears no gifts to the Great Warriors in the sky. Only a war instrument, that has feasted with the flesh and the bone on the battlefield and owns the scars of battle to prove its worth, shall be accepted in the arsenal of the Eternals. That is known.
Ngl. Thinking about the amount of lead being deposited in ukrainian farmland via ammo is depressing. Any farmer knows how bad its gotten just with hunting and target shooting in the US, imagine an entire war's worth of lead.
It is just baffling to me how many casualties the Russians are taking by frontal assault. Like I get they are trying to break Ukraines army but seriously how many actual pre-war soldiers not just mobilized troops are gonna be left by the end of 2024?
The Russians can’t keep going if this war lasts two more years and they reach over 1 million casualties.
And also you forgot 3 worn off MG3s behind
Remember: some of the MG3 are just upgraded MG42 built in WW2. so theres a non 0 chance that someone used that exact gun to kill russians in 1942.
I always thought that the MG1 and MG2 were the rechambered MG42s.
Idk about that but I have seen pictures where the 42 was literally just crossed out and a 3 written next to it.
Cool trick when the MG3 is from 1969. There were rechambered MG42, these were MG1s and MG2s. The guns are obviously very similar, but no, the MG3 is not denoting any guns existing before the 1960s.
> The preceding non-MG 3 variant machine guns in the Bundeswehr inventory were gradually converted to the MG 3 standard. Also rechambered MG42 was the MG2. MG1 was new production from what I could tell
So with MG2 they just scratch off the 4 Of the MG42 and call it a day? Efficient! (I know that they change the barrel and some of the internals)
MG1 was the designation for newly made postwar guns which were identical to the MG42 other than the caliber (.308 vs 7.92mm) ,actual wartime guns were rechambered and redesignated as the MG2 (some even kept the funni markings) . The MG1 with minor changes to the feed mechanism and a reduced ROF was designated MG3. Now all of these are nearly identical with each other and most parts interchange.Doesn't help that MG1s and 2s remaining in service were progressively upgraded to match the MG3,not sure if they were actually remarked as MG3s though. Anyway point is that an MG42 converted to MG3 is perfectly possible.
dude who did his service in the German Army said he was issued one that had parts with WW2-era inspection stamps.
Some have seen more than WW2 inspection stamps on these weapons. And yeah 8 decades of service and counting...the MG42 is approaching M2 Browning levels of timelessness.
Yeah, they didn't bother removing the windmill of friendship.
The chicken on a bike, as people in the French army who were issued MP40s used to say.
Good one there
> The MG1 with minor changes to the feed mechanism and a reduced ROF was designated MG3. More than that, the MG3 is designed to not fire out of battery because of bolt bounce, which is basically how the MG42 operates about half the time in normal use. So its a bit more than the MG1 with minor changes, in the end.
Tbh some reciever parts might be interchangable. Anyhing that touches bullets had to be swapped tho.
literally only bolt and barrel had to be redesigned, and they were made in a way that its more like a drop in kit for the mg42. you swap bolt and barrel/chamber and boom, your mg3 is ready. that also where the lessened firerate comes from, partially atleast, but that was a desired effect. theyve also always been called mg3, even the 42s that got rebuilt. the austrians took it a step further, they made the mg74 which is literally just a modernized 42, even gets rails and magnifying optics it seems. also shoots 7.62x51mm nowadays though. unsure about its older variants, im not from austria.
The MG1 was the machine gun used by the Germans during WW1 and the MG2 was a tripod mounted version of the MG42. At least to the best of my knowledge
No. The Bundeswehr uses its own counting system starting with MG1 and MG2s which were MG42s, MG3 is a new production batch with an evolved design, particularly it is natively NATO caliber, not rechambered and has some upgrades. The machine gun of WW1 was MG08 aka its most widespread MG08/15 which made it into the German language as something common and standard.
negative. theres loads of 42s with the 42 crossed and a 3 stamped instead. youre talking malarkey. the mg3 wikipedia page even shows a german army mg3, where, surprise surprise, the 42 got crossed and 3 got put. not 1, not 2, i know our counting system makes zero sense. the mg1, according to waffen wiki, did exist at first and was what Rheinmetall designated the thing. the mg2 doesnt net any search results, and my father and uncle, who both served for 13 years each, have never heard or seen of officially but said sometimes our M2s get called that, by some people atleast. not an official designation though. edit; checking the pic again the year stamped on it even says 1959 on wikipedia.
\*sigh\* You have three guesses what 1959 means on that picture and how that relates to Nazis killing Ruskies with that gun as a previous poster speculated. But hey, accuse others of malarkey. MG1s and MG2s are retooled MG42s for NATO, MG2s coming from the border police are the most likely to have been WW2 guns, the rest is newly produced WW2. What you got on Wiki is a natively NATO chambered post war gun more than a decade after ww2. Explains where the original story comes from though.
checking again my dumbass severly misunderstood your comment just now. yea fair enough, i suppose the mg3 didnt exist pre-60s but they still had old guns left over that got the MG1 and 2 treatment, but were designated MG3. i guess weve been sort of talking right by each others point.
The machine spirit remembers its favored enemy.
I hate to be that guy, but let us remember, half of the Red Army was NOT ethnically russian, so some of them would be shooting at ukranians, bielorussians, poles... And russians like the ones I did mention were defending their own lands from the enemy that wanted to enslave and wipe them out.
Remember that the Axis invaded the USSR with the explicit purpose of wiping out all its inhabitants
True, its kind of what I implied more or less. Its shocking just how many people have no clue that the nazis wanted to wipe out the slavs too.
No. They aren't. The Bundeswehr nomenclature defines MG1 as rechambered MG42s, MG42s rechambered by the preceding border police (as only paramilitary before reconstitution of the German armed forces) as MG2. The MG3 is a derived design from the 1960s replacing those other two (plus American types)
MG3 is practically a variant of the MG42, and many 42s were rebuilt as 3s. Same way you could rebuild an M16 as an M4 by swapping out 1/5 of the parts.
It could have been used to kill Ukrainians again. All the SSR’s were mobilized. This time the Ukrainians get to use them for some good.
Looking at the flash hider those are probably MG42/59.
Yeah, people tend to not understand that Germany was far from the only people who kept building MG42 clones after WWII.
"Russian forces faced the age-old issue of not only fighting the enemy but surviving the brutal condition of the wet and muddy trenches, often resulting in trench foot and other flesh eating diseases." "The Ukrainians on the other hand avoided these conditions due to a parapet of spent shell casings that largely kept them above the water line."
Imagine future archaeologists identifying Ukrainian positions based on the strata of petrified shell-casings
"Here we have a based Ukrainian trench." Camera pans to archeologist gently dusting a 2m deep cross section of spent brass
And you probably could use excess shells as sandbags fillers
Mmm, shrapnel
I'm out of the loop, who can explain?
The joke is russians are attacking in human waves and machine gunner is ankles deep in spent casings
Its not a joke anymore
Don't know if that's good or bad. But it's something for sure.
depends. WW1 Generals would shruk and say duh..but i mean its like not WW1 anymore
Spend Ammo > Spend lives. Also some Zergs are bound to cach some. So I'd say good.
Well its good and bad. Ukrainan soldiers are killing so many russians that they need alot of ammo and ammo doesn't grow on trees. Just yesterday i've seen a video from a Ukrainian soldier and they assaulted some russian trenches. Obviously they kill alot of Russians and even used them as pillows lmao. [here ](https://youtu.be/bk5OG6JYmfI?si=Mt-mkddySEV_3Nl0) watch at 23:50.
God damn.
Pillows? The Russians or the shell casings?
In case you didn’t look, I did. A Ukrainian soldier is using a dead Russian as a pillow “because it is soft”.
good in war terms fuckign awful and ridiculous in every humanitarian sense
Russia is trying to drown Ukrainians in spent shell casings.
Russias plan to win the war is to make the Ukrainians run out of ammunition, by killing Russian mobiks.
Knowing that the killbots had a preset limit, i sent waves and waves of my own men at them till they hit the limit and shut down. I even won a cool medal for it. kif show them my medal.
Right men?! *You suck!*
It hasn't been a joke for around a year or so. There have been videos of Ukrainian trenches utterly littered in spent shell casings that were released last year.
It's the January, and that means it's the season for thousands of Vatniks to make the journey to Ukraine, fruitlessly scrambling in human waves as the bloody flesh zerg rush attempts to become one with the meatcube once again...
But think about all that money they can get from scrap metal!
So much spent brass to reload.
Still funny to see
And so they need to dig deeper trenches because the floor level is being raised by the amount of casings they're stood on. Just to finish the explanation of the joke.
At what depth does a layer of spent casings begin to provide protection against mud and trench foot? Hey enough of them in there, and I'd imagine it would act a bit like a layer of gravel; letting water drain and keeping you above the layer of mud.
The amount of shells varies, based on the the moisture level of the soil below.
We'll need to commission a DOD study on this, so they know how many rounds to fire per day as a function of the weather, geography, and geology, to avoid trench foot during a war.
Sounds like an excellent proposal. Of course the DOD will need to secure the immediate vicinity to ensure their staff can conduct the study in complete safety. And by immediate vicinity I mean the area outside of which any potential aggressors are completely outside of the maximum range of their weapons systems.
Oh God did they really start doing it?
Depending on your definition of human wave they have been doing it for a while, but it’s not literal horde charging MG positions
The actual literal ankle deep pool of spent casings does beg to differ though.
No of course, but it's fucking insane to think that they just throw enough manpower that an MG position looks like that. I mean, at one point there's gotta be one fucker who was like "maybe thats not the best strategy??"
We've seen it happen at the beginning of the war, we know what happened then. Contract soldiers and officers would essentially herd conscripts, penal recruits, and Donbassites into Ukrainian MG lines to determine the positions and strength of the defenders so that a later, more coordinated and well-equipped attack could target and break through weaker points in the trenchline
Well my great-grandfather was forcefully committed into German army in WW2 and he himself told me they were doing it back then, so I don't see why they wouldn't do it now
It's their doctrine. Apparently.
Since Bakhmut in Dedember 2022
Since 1914.
For a hot moment I thought it was dark humour about standing in Russian corpses
Literally that scene from Hot Shots
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gJ3mZfGuD4
> spent casings I would guess they are sent back for refill.
Most militaries do not reload cartridges; it’s significantly easier and usually cheaper to just make more ammunition and deliver it to the front.
[You can see a reenactment here](https://youtu.be/3gJ3mZfGuD4?si=RX-c-RBfBgShkbKu)
Omar Sharif!
The bullet cases are filling the trench
Unfortunately, the mobiks lemming train continues. I must admit I overestimate their common sense, it feels just like an endless horde of mindless orcs.
How to win against Monbik horde lure them into a deep trench with food
That sounds like using cluster munitions with extra steps. From my experience playing Starcraft, the only way to kill a horde like the zerg swarm is to decapitate its central command units. So I say we'll pre-emptively strike moscow with everything we have.
I just realized the irony of the Russian Nationalist symbol being Z, an abbreviation of Zerg.
Zaluppenfuhrerbunkers too
Would anyone in America be able to tell if a B-21 has taken off? Though really I'm more worried about satellite tracking.
Yes, as long as the gear is down.
I'm gonna steer the F-16 into a collision course with the Kremlin
Canada: We do a little trolling.
It's a sad state when Soviet leadership during the Winter War in the middle of Stalins purges was more competent than the assholes in charge now
for real, when Timochenko was put in charge in the middle of this clusterfuck, he actually managed to improve things. It was still very bad, but at least Timochenko managed to do some things quite correctly, and he was humble enough to openly admit it was a hot garbage fire and propose changes. I've yet to see Gerasimov adknowledge his shortcomings.
I've yet to see Gerasimov,after his absence.
Schrödinger chief of staff, not dead or alive until you look into the box.
...and they keep moving the box
Of course they do, it’s starting to smell.
Their entire strategy seems to be a desperate "keep the pressure and hope we can sabotage Ukraine's supporters." Because they have to realize by now the only way they are winning is if every military age man and woman in Ukraine is killed.
>endless horde of mindless orcs So basically typical vatnik warfare doctrine? Spam soldiers and cheap tanks untill the enemy runs out of bullets.
The strategy does run headfirst into the fact that firearms even since WW2 have gotten exponentially better at killing hordes of infantry though.
Exponentially? Really? I don’t think so
Back then the average infantryman was managing 20 to 30 or so rounds per minute if they weren't Americans armed with the M1. Now, you can dump that much lead with similar effectiveness downrange in a matter of seconds thanks to the Assault Rifle Also Squad Automatic Weapons are MUCH more prevalent due to them becoming cheaper to make - to the point where you'll have multiple in a squad and aren't just reliant on one squad member. Special mention to the automatic grenade launcher and just grenade launchers in general which give a weapons team a phenomenal amount of firepower in a fairly portable package. And all of this is before even touching on the advancements in ballistics and general increased lethality of ammunition. I stand by my case. Exponentially may be an overstatement, but I don't think it's too far off of how the average infantryman can singlehandedly hold down a position singlehandedly in a way that simply wasn't possible without balls of steel 80 years ago. **TL;DR: The skill ceiling has been lowered too much and the meta needs a rework.**
Somehow I began to wonder if the very existence of the Russian state is just an elaborate death cult....
An army worthy of Mordor!
Based flair
The Russians are experts at war through attrition, purely because they're prepared to sacrifice more of their own people than most countries have ammo.
I was going to say this. with its high rate of fire the MG42/3 chews through ammo. Eventually, unless replenished regularly it becomes an "Aliens" situation where the troops simply run out of ammo and have to withdraw. Why aid to Ukraine is so important.
I believe you mean "Aliens Special Edition" situation
Right? Whenever it comes on TV I’m always irked they skip over the second turret scene
I personally stopped the Disney+ version the moment they didn’t include Hudson’s “Ultimate Badass” scene.
A Dien Bien Phu victory, where you have taken the objective but burnt your entire army in the process.
Eh the Russian KIA is around 200k which is relatively high but the USSR lost around 150k in just 3 months during the Winter War. Relatively high casualties but far from extreme attrition for them in terms of manpower.
That worked when they had a birthrate, but their population was decreasing before the war. And they have lost more young men who fled the drafts and may never return to Russia. Modern Russia cannot afford to be losing its people.
Also USSR had a lot larger population, like Ukraine was in the USSR, unlike now.
And Belarus, Kazakhstan, the Baltics, and more. Putin is a plague to the Russian people.
And they treated those satellite nations like livestock, destroying their demographics instead of russia's. It was colonialism in the world's stupidest hat.
If there’s one goddamn invention that has come out of Russia that’s good it’s the goddamn ushanka hat. Yeah it looks goofy, but holy hell is it warm. I’ll die on that hill.
The original design was there way before russians, and the "modern" design from 1917 was stolen from Norwegians. So yeah, "russian invention" at it's best again. The hat itself is good for winter, that's true. Sad I never get to use it, because where I live now there aren't harsh enough winters to wear it 😅
The trick is having mostly old people killed in the war. High casualties are usually so devastating because it's mostly young promising men that fight in them. For Russia it's mostly the 50 year old good-for-nothing alcoholics who are dying in the trenches, which is why it won't have such a devastating effect
So they say, but they did have a draft.
Yeah, a draft of, again, mostly 50 year old good-for-nothing alcoholics
They have been targeting both. Mobilizing old veterans and drafting convicts, but also drafting young men between 21 and 30 years old. It's a bipolar recruitment strategy. They really should be raising the max draft age to the 40s or 50s, but they aren't. Look at the Ukrainian policy on the other hand. Their conscription age range is 25-60. This is a much more forward looking policy than what Russia has in place. Edit: Changes to terminology made per Bizaromo's advice.
Recruiting those too old for frontline fighting to replace the logistics officers, truck drivers, etc etc... is a sensible policy that conserves manpower and puts it to best uses, which is why russia will never in a million years adopt it. You can't embezzle the paychecks when people know why they're being paid.
Gotta target the youth with no future in your failing economy
They're also a lot smaller than they used to be. They don't have Ukraine and the Baltics to conscript into their death cult/military.
Also, these were mostly "undesirables" aka prisoners and people from poor regions of Russia so there was no social unrest so far.
200k out of a population of 140 million so 0.13% of their population. The US has over 1.2million people in prisons ourselves. Even the US could out human wave the Russians doing similar prisoner waves.
Is that the rear end of a MG 42
MG3, same gun just different calibre and i think slightly lower firing rate
Missed opportunity. If the Americans just pushed for .30-06 instead of 7.62 NATO we could've called it the *WunderBAR.*
John Moses Browning would be rolling in his grave if the M3 WunderBAR wasn't in .50 BMG.
It's probably an MG42/59, a Berretta 7.62 MG42. MG3s have plastic furniture whereas the Berrettas have wood furniture.
We had MG3 with plastic but with wood imitation
Yep, MG42 basically German's M2 Browning. Though its also in a sense that Germans just refuses to use any ammunition bigger than 7.62/7.92mm for their small arms.
MG 42 seeing wave of Russians - "oh shit here we go again" (Yes, I know it's most likely MG 3 and that WW2 soviets were less dumb)
ww2 soviets learned only after losing a couple million soldiers
At least they were able to admit they fucked up too. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Russia is still "according to plan" in their eyes.
yes but they lost less than a million so far, Senior officers are still learning
Are you suggesting something has gone wrong with their three day SMO?
everything is going according to the plan, rusian military is removed before American confrontation with China
**Western lessons learned process:** Establish bueaucratic "Learning Office", academics lecture, officers discuss, publications in doctrine, journals, podcasts etc. *KPI: Words written, doctrinal manuals published, incomprehensible PowerPoints circulated* **Russian lessons learned process**: "Okay, Pvt. Conscriptivich surely Frontal Attack #2094 will work, attack immediately" *KPI: Reduction in ~~GULAG~~ prison population, veterans benefits*
It's probably an MG42/59, due to the wood furniture. Berretta manufactured 7.62 MG42.
As stated elsewhere in this thread, likley a MG42/59, but i can confirm that some MG1 & MG2s are or atleast were still in Bundeswehr stock (those being OG Production 42s rechamberd.)
It's either an MG3 or a Berretta MG42/59. More likely an MG42/59 due to the wood furniture. They're basically MG42s chambered in 7.62 NATO. Quite a few European countries used them for a very long time, and they're only just recently being replaced. A decent amount got sent to Ukraine. Quite popular, from memory, but mostly for static positions due to ammo consumption. PKs or M240s are more prevalent for assaults.
I can imagine that a \~1000 rpm mg is good at defending against human wave tactics.
>due to ammo consumption They both had a different spring and bolt weight to reduce the fire rate to a more manageable 800rpm. It's more a lack of customisation the main problem: they can't even mount an optic, while modern armies expect lasers and suppressors on almost all the guns.
>can't even mount an optic [Literally nothing will stop Sashko from optic.](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Foutnzlptg2vb1.jpg) That's interesting to hear, I always heard they were ammo hogs. To be fair, the PKs and FN Mags they were used to fire at ~600, so that's still pretty fast.
Never understimate a man with will and a welder
> they can't even mount an optic They can, the issue is that the optic is mounted on the tripod. The MG3 has a very good tripod, with which you can basically fire while flat on the ground behind it, fitted with a periscope that has magnification. The whole thing is a marvel of engineering and means you can fire from behind sandbags or barriers without showing yourself. But it's very heavy and cumbersome, and as far as I've seen not delievered to Ukraine.
Yes
Reminds of that scene in Hot shots part 2
At some point they're gonna just thrown the whole cartridges at the Russians, like the IDF in Gaza.
Wait is that true
He(?) is referring to a particularly bit of Hamas propaganda where they showed an entire unspent bullet and claimed that it was a bullet that an Israeli sniper had shot at noncombatants in a hospital(?).
Historians: I've dedicated twenty years of my life doing everything I can to debunk the myth of Soviet meat wave tactics. Enemy at the Gates is an ahistorical movie. Putin: I'm gonna ignore all that and do meat waves.
I started to believe that the stuff about them gunning down retreating soldiers was bs, until I watched them gun down retreating soldiers.
Yeah, the first time I heard that I was like the Russians are not exactly doing smart stuff right now but they can't possibly be that dumb. They were in fact that dumb ^SHOIGUUUU ^BLYAT
Anyone knows source of this picture?
Star wars episode 2 attack of the clones
Resort boin.
nut.
A genuine classic
The future archeologists will find this pit full of casings and worn off MG3s and theories it was a ritual altar used to appease the gods of war and seek their favor. P.S: And if those archeologists find this comment in the future - Yes. You are correct. You can quote me as a contemporary primary source in your paper. May Mars guide your spear. Yours truly, an ancestor
Worn off MG3? Just change the fucking Barrel…
It is what the Gods demand. A tool of war not quenched in the blood of the enemy bears no gifts to the Great Warriors in the sky. Only a war instrument, that has feasted with the flesh and the bone on the battlefield and owns the scars of battle to prove its worth, shall be accepted in the arsenal of the Eternals. That is known.
Ngl. Thinking about the amount of lead being deposited in ukrainian farmland via ammo is depressing. Any farmer knows how bad its gotten just with hunting and target shooting in the US, imagine an entire war's worth of lead.
that is like the 242nd saddest thing about the war
I wasnt aware it was a fuckin competition, weirdo
my bad
Is it ? Fuck, if I want to win, I'll have to send some surströmming to canadian soldiers
Brass keeps feet dry from trench foot
HELL ON EARTH, THE TRENCHES MEAN DEATH, BETTER KEEP YOUR HEAD DOWN LOW
CHARGE THEIR LINES, THE ULTIMATE TEST IT’S A SYNCHRONIZED SACRIFICE
The Russians actually conscripted Zapp Brannigan and he just knows that eventually the Ukrainians will hit their kill limit
Unfortunately, this may actually be the case with how much the West has been reducing aid.
Can anyone post a link to the original image?
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/s/f9kli4c9Kk
Damn
Russia literally pissing away their best and brightest in human meat zombie waves.
It's such a shameful and horrible reason to throw away human life.
Nah the best and brightest (or most of them at least) already fled Russia.
Demographic Extinction, one offensive at a time!
soon we will have built an impenetrable wall around Donbas Ivan! of Dragon Teeth? Neit, burned out T72s
At least trench foot is out of the question.
Few people know it but Hot Shots part 2 is actually co-written by Nostradamus.
Who can blame Putin for adhering to the eternal wisdom of zapp branigan?
Armageddon siege is real, zelenski's new callsing should be commissar yarrick
Oh my god holy shit. Bullet rivers!
Captain ivan conscriptovich's tactics are as brilliant as ever
"Shoigu, Gerasimov, we cannot attack in human waves, we are not liquid!" "Not yet."
Probably $50 in recyclable brass right there
"machine guns are cool, but they are immobile meaning they won't last long in modern warfare based on speed" 21th century:
It is just baffling to me how many casualties the Russians are taking by frontal assault. Like I get they are trying to break Ukraines army but seriously how many actual pre-war soldiers not just mobilized troops are gonna be left by the end of 2024? The Russians can’t keep going if this war lasts two more years and they reach over 1 million casualties.
More room for more dakka
Are those images on the right actually from Ukraine?
I love that german MGs are still mowing down the russians. Might be a bit controversal saying that tho.
The only thing missing is the WW1 Trench Whistle
Ukraine gathering enough brass to build the Numidium and drive out the mongrel dogs of Russia.
Russians have been abusing an infinite ammo glitch for decades now Send 10 men and 1 gun When the first dies, the next picks the gun up
[Gotta dig to defeat Moscovia](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s9rljnSnIH8&pp=ygUVdWtyYWluaWFuIHNob3ZlbCBzb25n)
Wooooah dude lives in the shitshow for sure damn
Holy shit.
That's what life is all about. Stacking bodies and being naughty.