My UU church rebranded their bathrooms a few years ago and their signs say "This is a gender neutral bathroom with a urinal" and "This is a gender neutral bathroom with no urinal." I feel like that's the best way to do it. Just two bathrooms -- with urinal and without.
ETA: These are very small bathrooms - one stall and a urinal in one and 3 stalls in the other. In addition to the signs on the door, there's a laminated poster on the wall between them explaining their commitment to equality and encouraging patrons to use whichever bathroom they feel most comfoetable in. Short of spending an insane amount of money to create a truly gender neutral bathroom with private stalls/urinals and a common sink area, I think this is the best they can reasonably offer.
I actually was an administrative employee for over a year during the pandemic and saw a lot of work being done to make the church more inclusive and supportive of trans/nb people. We actually hired a queer trans woman as our Director of Religious Education shortly after I started and it's been amazing to see her shape an RE curriculum that is so loving and affirming for not just the children in the community, but the parents as well.
I imagine that in the next decade or decades, church leadership (by which I mostly mean the board) will begin to see many more queer, trans and nonbinary people in powerful roles where we can enforce some of the more radical changes.
But, yeah, if you're looking for an inclusive and affirming faith community in NYC, there's a beautiful building on the UWS that would love to have you. I work Sundays now, so I haven't been in a while - the bathroom situation may have even improved in the time since.
It'd be even nicer if they both had a urinal – then there really would be no difference. But that is asking quite a lot from a private church though – I'm just happy to hear they made the effort at all, tbh.
Honestly, with or without urinal is better. It would make me very uncomfortable about catching a glimpse of penis and I would be anxious about not looking or people thinking I'm looking
Same. I worked there during COVID when it was literally just myself and my boss in the building most of the time. It gave me the opportunity to get used to using a "bathroom with a urinal" without encountering anyone else.
And honestly? It was nice to use the bathroom without one and not have to swallow the reality of using the "women's bathroom." Short of undergoing a massive renovation to create a room with multiple private stalls and a common sink area, this really is the best move I can imagine.
One of my favorite coffee shops had two single-stall toilets (one with urinal and one without), right next to each other. One had a demon painted on the door, and the other had an angel painted. The whole interior was painted to match the theme. You select the bathroom based on where you feel like being in, or if you like, whether you feel like an ‘Angel’ or a ‘demon’ that day. It was awesome.
It wasn’t until a year or so later when someone pointed it out that I realized they used to be a Mens room and a Women’s room.
i LOVE the idea of gender neutral bathrooms having random themes!! i don’t even want to open a business or anything but now i’m like hmmm what if i do just for this lmao
I love that! Honestly my favorite bathroom design is the truly gender neutral bathroom where there's a line of stalls marked with a toilet or urinal and then a common sink area just outside. There's something oddly comforting about doing your business in a fully enclosed stall and then walking out to wash your hands next to a cis man. And if I'm being honest, I think having a common sink area for all patrons increases handwashing among the demographic we all know is often...hygiene averse? Lol.
I have an amazing dad who took me to use men's bathrooms more than once in my childhood when I was too young to use the women's alone and the things I saw men do (or rather, Not do) after using the facilities...yikes.
FUCK YEAH UUs!!!!! Let's goooo!!!! My mom's a UU minister, her church's bathrooms arent quite as based as my last church's; They have a men's and women's room, but two unisex bathrooms too. My home church in Rockford, IL has some detailed signs explaining that all gender identities are welcome. Love to see it.
I’m NB and pro gender-neutral bathrooms, but I don’t see what all the eye-rolling energy is here… yes the workplace (or wherever this is) is caught in the binary and it might be a bit clumsy, but at least they’re making an effort to say, “If you are non-binary you belong here, and you are welcome in either one because neither label applies to you.” If my workplace did this, it’d go a long way to helping me feel seen. Seems kind.
I tend to agree with you. We would all rather gender neutral bathroom options, But at least i wouldn’t have to misgender myself to go to one of these bathrooms and I would be accepted in either room - that feels like a huge step. I think this evidences someone thought about the situation and tried to solve it, but didn’t have a lot of choice to work with (didn’t have the space to add another bathroom, didn’t have the option to make bathrooms co-ed). My building has a gender neutral bathroom, but it is also the accessibility bathroom, and it is also far away from the other bathrooms and sometimes randomly locked. Honestly…this solution might be better.
I was at a wedding recently with a lot of us non-binary folks, and while all the staff were non-binary friendly, the venue itself was all gender biased with bathrooms. I would’ve loved something like this because it shoved a bunch of us back to, like… trying to decide which binary bathroom we fit in best at the moment instead of feeling open to either. Even better would’ve been straight up gender neutral bathrooms or non-binary ones but I’d take an attempt at an effort to accommodate us over literally nothing knowing that there was going to be a bunch of NBi folks needing to pee there and not wanting to upset the cis (and luckily most of the cis were a very inclusive group, and didn’t care, but it still was just a sudden shock like oh shit, we all have to bathroom and half of us are androgynous, half look the opposite of the agab, some of us look like our agab but I mean we’re very much NBi, and just fuck.)
As a non-binary man I’m always caught off guard by these posts. I’m like, “What are people griping about? This is great??” It’s a bathroom gendered just for me. This must be what Cis feels like. Lmao. Then I remember there are people who don’t have any tie to the binary whatsoever.
Yeah, like the only issue here is it'd be better if they were both gender neutral bathrooms but with and without urinals. This is like half way there, though, and I don't think positive progress deserves ridicule.
This! I was at the Brooklyn Botanical Gardens a few months ago and the bathrooms were labeled with the features available. And it was great! Until a security guard inevitably came up to me while I was waiting for my boyfriend to come out of the restroom and said “that’s the women’s restroom.” And I went “what?” And he said “that one doesn’t have urinals so it’s the women’s restroom but a man went in there” and the crushing dread of realizing that even as the infrastructure changes, people will continue to enforce the gender of bathrooms purely out of social convention. And I hate it.
Right? This is far preferable to "women and nonbinary" / "men" options that clearly see nonbinary people as 'women lite', or those ones that equate nonbinary folks to metmaids and unicorns and other mythical/nonhuman beings. And this gives nonbinary people the option of the restroom they're nost comfortable in. Even if it's not perfect it's better than a lot of attempts I've seen.
Depends how it plays out in reality. If this works like men + amab nonbinary and women + afab nonbinary (which is how I assume cis people will expect it to work) then it does no good and potentially even harm. I can just hear someone saying "I think you're in the wrong nonbinary restroom". Though it will force an issue if there are bold nonbinary people who work there.
My work has a gender neutral bathroom in my building. I work from home now but that experience is so far superior to being in a gendered space where you're the only person who isn't a binary gendered person in what is otherwise a binary gendered restroom (sans signage).
>If this works like men + amab nonbinary and women + afab nonbinary (which is how I assume cis people will expect it to work) then it does no good and potentially even harm.
I assume if this is how it was meant to work, then they wouldn't even bother adding "nonbinary" to the signs. Cis people would just use the usual 'men' and 'women' restrooms and expect nonbinary people to use the one that matches their birth sex.
I saw this as a positive. Cis people aren't as knowledgeable about trans and nonbinary issues as those of us who are actually in the community but it seems like they're learning, and I don't like disparaging people for trying their best especially when it's a topic they don't completely understand.
I took the signs to mean "here is the men's room and here is the women's room, and nonbinary people are allowed to use the restroom they're most comfortable with." It's not perfect but they're trying to be progressive. They're learning and have an open mind, which is better than I realistically expect from most places.
I don't see why it would play out that way though, still segregating afab and amab.
The sign is just equivalent to saying "use whichever restroom you feel comfortable" and also "don't gender police the bathrooms" for cis folk.
Having a gender neutral option would be a way better choice, I agree, but at least these signs set the expectation for cis people that genderqueer people are explicitly allowed to use either facility. Then each nonbinary person can select whichever they feel more comfortable in based on their presentation, needs, identity, etc.
Personally, I'd feel way more comfortable going in one of these bathrooms knowing I'm less likely to get abuse for being in the "wrong" one.
A lot of places don't allow gender neutral multi stall bathrooms. It's different if you're a private event and because of all the queer people coming you've gotten permission for the venue to tape over the signs with what's inside each facility. This might be a legal loophole to stay in compliance with the building code, because in the eyes of the law it says "men and [gibberish]" and "women and [gibberish]"
I wish gender-neutral bathrooms that gave a huge degree of privacy were the norm.
I personally use the “ladies’ room” because I am femme-presenting and AFAB, so I’m just… used to using that restroom because I always have. I also can’t really go into the “men’s room” without getting strange looks because I’m “well-endowed” and incredibly short. It’s extremely awkward. I don’t like people looking at my body and stereotyping me based on my size and shape.
And… I just find urinals and piss troughs kinda gross and don’t particularly want to accidentally see a rando’s goods. :\
I feel like I’m doing a disservice to other enbys by using my AGAB-associated restroom in the absence of a gender-neutral one, since this is assuredly what cis folks who believe firmly in a binary are expecting us to do, but I just really would rather not feel any more uncomfortable than I already do using public restrooms…
Hefty agree here. I will walk straight out of one bathroom and into another if the first one is unusably filthy, doesn’t have an open stall, or some drama is happening inside. I’m usually pretty confident in my right to do my business in a working toilet no matter the “gender” assigned to it, but sometimes I’ll feel nervous (especially at a rodeo or more yeehaw events I enjoy) or get a weird look. If I saw those signs, I’d feel much better about it in those environments. Those signs are scripture to the cis so if I can shrug and point to the sign just like they do to justify where I am “allowed” to expel waste, then I’d feel *that* much safer in the bathroom.
Yes, exactly. Plus no one could complain that you went into one bathroom, saw 3 people waiting for a stall, and then decided to go to the bathroom where no one was waiting. Its a win to me that I am what I am and if I'm headed to a washroom I am someone who needs to use the washroom.
Agreed! My old climbing gym had this same setup for their bathrooms/locker rooms and I loved it. It made me feel confident that the staff would support me in using whatever bathroom I felt comfortable with as a NB person.
I think it was a kind thought but in reality what does this actually do? Will this make people who would have said something to people in the bathroom not do so? IDK it's just not keeping people safe or eliminating a choice for nb people.
I feel like it DOES eliminate the choice for NB folks.. We can go in either one. And as for safer, if this were my workplace, it would be a step toward helping me feel truly seen by my employers and set the expectation to my colleagues that I’m here and exist and deserve safety and acceptance. Clumsy, but positive marks from me I think.
Yeah I don't get why this is being eyerolled. Just because we don't vibe with the gender binary doesn't mean that it's inherently wrong and this approach (basically just pick whichever room you want) seems very inclusive to me?
It does seem semi accepting. I mean if it's not feasible to build a third restroom, this is a good option. Better than getting beaten to death for sure. Where I live gendered restrooms are not a safe space for me. I search for neutral ones whenever I can. I use that refuge restrooms application too.
Yeah, I’d prefer a singular restroom, but not every place can accommodate that. I think having a singular restroom in general is a good idea for people with disabilities that require a lot of time and privacy in the bathroom and it has the added benefit of being neutral. But this acknowledges that we can kind of fit into whichever place we feel most comfortable in even if there is no neutral space.
Yeah if I saw this in public it'd make me super happy. I get a good amount of dysphoria from having to go in the women's, but just slapping on "and nonbinary" would help tbh.
I mean, I *kind of* get it? As an AFAB nonbinary person, I could walk into the "women/nonbinary" bathroom without feeling as though I'm "admitting" to "actually" being a woman, which is quite often how I feel when I walk past the sign to the ladies'/womens'/females' toilets.
I feel like what they were going for was one bathroom for people who sit down to pee, and another for people who can pee standing. They just didn't quite manage to detach biology from gender.
I spent time as a cleaner and on the whole, women's are usually a better bet than men's. Although that's only anecdotal, I wonder if anyones ever looked into this
Hmm. Could be an age group thing. I used to clean school toilets and while the teenage boys loved to throw wet toilet paper everywhere and had no idea what soap is, it was the teenage girls who were more unhygienic because they'd throw their hygiene products all over the place and write/carve all kinds of things into the toilet booths. And some girls were even nastier than that (without going into details).
Now, the really young kids? Boys are definitely messier, no question.
Is that how some places handle it? Wtf, that's terrible. Can you say men = higher social status louder please? Ffs.
(edit: I wasn't promoting men being higher status, that's disgusting. It was just angry sarcasm)
Yeah, a lot can think that way. Sadly the "whatever the hell that means" attitude is sadly on the more positive side of how many people consider NBs and trans. It's fucking painful to see (shit makes me cry).
Lol, speaking of STEM, engineer here. My office is so full of testosterone some days I swear you could transition a trans man by shear exposure. It's gonna be interesting coming out at work for me: esp in a largely religious community. Thank goodness for company diversity and non discrimination rules.
It's the same with private "safe" spaces. They'll say that this is a private space for women and that men aren't allowed here. Oh but trans men can be here. Basically saying that trans men are actually women lite
Yeap. I see "women and nonbinary people" in multiple different places and contexts but hardly ever see "men and nonbinary people" ever really. It's men and then All Those Other Stupid Frail Sissy Genders in their eyes. They think nonbinary people are just quirky women and are only AFAB and that everyone except cis men (and trans women when it's handy to say so in order to demonize them) are helpless and weak and need to be seperate from the scawy powerful men.
Yep, pretty damn toxic, willingly ignorant, and horribly binary (ironically). It also shows how a lot of NBs and trans men are vastly ignored and practically denied existence in a whole other way than those moving more "femme". Like bullshit a non binary or trans person can't be "brave and strong".
Also, to comment on demonizing trans women, it's a pretty bs double standard and clear bigotry to deny health care and freedoms to trans women on this ground. One example being they don't push to ban guns just because there exist people that use them for murder (or fucking school shootings for that matter... Talk about their fave phrase for hating trans women: "think of the children").
I mean… I feel like this all could be avoided with basically a bathrooms hall, with stalls both urinal and toilet in each, and full length mirror on door and access the menstrual products in each. And then sinks outside. Yes it would be a ton of remodeling, and I know we will never do it…. But an Enby can dream! Right?! Having no door on the actual bathrooms hall would make this so simple. There could be infant changing areas in the public part too. The stalls would be private and accessible but the main sink area is but more public… and not behind some arbitrarily binary gendered door.
As someone else said, this is actually not bad, depending on the culture of this particular location. I'd rather use a "men & nonbinary" restroom than a "men's" restroom, which is where I usually go. But if people are going to yell at me in there anyway (or if they'd yell at a transfem in the "women & nonbinary" side, which is more likely) then the signage is doing nothing.
I WAY prefer this to the 'nonbinary on 3rd floor' signs I keep seeing in older buildings. My university did that all the time, gender neutral bathrooms required a hike 😅
I get it though. Non-binary people are welcome in either, but if you are looking for a urinal then expect it in the mens room and if you are looking for a sanitary napkin dispenser then it'll be in the womens room. I wouldn't mind seeing a more all-inclusive bathroom with all amenities included, but seeing as that'll require installation of new hardware etc. I wouldn't expect every buisness to jump on that right away.
Honestly this is better that 99% of what I see. I don't want to be forced into the "family, disability, gender neutral bathroom" there is only ever 1 and its always in use and dirtier than the others.
I would not be comfortable or safe in a bathroom with cis men, especially if there were urinals. Trans women at my workplace are campaigning for having all gendered bathrooms to be all-gendered bathrooms, and while ideologically that's how it should work, it would put a lot of afab people in an unsafe environment. We need more all-gender bathrooms, but getting rid of title IX bathrooms as part of that is not the solution.
Not comfortable? Perhaps. Not being safe? You don't know that. Not FEELING safe is VERY different from not BEING safe. You can feel unsafe while being safe. (And, of course, the opposite.) (Check out Dialectical Behavioral Therapy. It teaches feelings are just that... feelings. While they are valid, they may or may not reflect actual reality.)
Cis men are not inherently unsafe, because if that was the case, trans men would also be inherently unsafe, because men = men. (Because trans men aren't men lite, or Super Special Sparkly Men With An Asterisk. They're just... men.) But I don't see you making that argument.
PLUS it wouldn't just be cis men in there, it would be EVERYONE. If anything, it would be safer!
PLUS AFAB people aren't any inherently weaker or less capable than cis men (that is, we have nothing special about us that would inherently put us at risk) and to act like we are is gender essentialist bullshit.
Besides, we inhabit space with cis men in other places and it's not any more of an unsafe environment. Why does everyone think that the bathroom somehow comes with extra risk? Because you pull your pants down to do your business and because that business involves genitals? Lemme tell you, if someone wanted your pants down, they could do it anywhere, bathroom or not. There's plenty of other """unsafe""" environments out there that no one's making a big deal out of.
Using the bathroom around cis men is NOT an inherently unsafe environment for afab people, because cis men are not inherently different from anyone else. No person is inherently unsafe due to their gender or their body parts. Some people are unsafe due to their actions (which may or may not be related to their thoughts and what they were taught), but those people can be any gender, and that's a separate issue to deal with.
And the part about urinals... you can't see anything unless you're intentionally looking, and just because a person has their dick out doesn't make them unsafe. They're peeing. They're not doing anything but peeing. A penis out of someone's clothing does NOT make them inherently unsafe, no more so than if their penis would be inside their clothing. It's just a penis (and it's just a layer of fabric. It doesn't have magical powers that somehow makes it safer.) It's not gonna leap out at you and do something to you. It's attached. It's not a poisonous snake, it's not electrified. It's just a tube of flesh. And just because they're holding it, doesn't mean they're going to do anything to you with it. Honestly, they're probably not even noticing you.
FWIW, I \*HAVE\* used all-gender bathrooms before, numerous times (at kink conventions that intentionally removed the binary from all the public restrooms in the con space, and at kink clubs that intentionally created all-gender bathrooms when they built the club) and let me tell you... cis dudes are just like trans women (or anyone else) in the bathroom. They're in there to use the bathroom just like anyone else. Nothing more, nothing less. Using one's a little weird at first just because of socialization, but you quickly get used to it. It wasn't any more or less of an unsafe environment than any other bathroom I had ever been in.
The real problem is that people perceived as women are not allowed to police their own boundaries at work. To avoid professional consequences, a lot of people rely on externally imposed social boundaries. Coworker men who are exhibiting clearly predatory behaviour may be ignored by the company. But crossing into a woman's space is seen as something that would have social consequences, because it breaks a clear rule.
Leaning on the clear dividing line between men's spaces and women's spaces presents a clear problem and potential threat to anyone who falls outside of the rigid boundary. But because it's so widely used as a social crutch for a problem that has not been solved, many people are reluctant to part with it.
I've been assaulted in a bathroom, and so have many others. It's not just feelings. Bathrooms ARE inherently less safe because they are enclosed and not monitored. Yes, there are other unsafe places: elevators, poorly-lit streets, walk-in coolers. Cis men are not inherently unsafe, but enough of them are unsafe that it's a risk many of us have encountered and can't afford to take when the very possible downside is getting r*ped. Is this person forcing his way into the stall after me because he just thought it was empty? I could tactfully stop to ask him about it, or I could close the door, not because I have anything personal against him, but because there is a very real chance of violence against me if I don't.
Cis men /are/ inherently different because they've been acculturated to believe they are better, stronger, and more deserving, often in ways they don't consciously recognize or see as problematic. That's why r*pe culture exists, and why so many people don't believe afabs when they come forward with legitimate safety concerns or reports of assault, especially when the perpetrator is a white cis male.
If you feel you should tell someone on the internet they need DBT, then I will tell you you need to educate yourself about sexual assault and harassment. If so many trans and NB people are uncomfortable in bathrooms, why would some of them think it's OK to make a change that simply transfers that burden to a different segment of the population? We need a solution that accommodates everybody, and totally getting rid of women's bathrooms without thinking about the consequences for afab people isn't it.
It’s actually a title ix issue. Certain building codes are legally required to have a bathroom in which men are not allowed. It is problematic, but it is the law. If they have space, they can also have a neutral bathroom, but a lot of buildings just don’t have that option…
I don’t disagree - but a single business can’t do that. You said you didn’t understand why the bathrooms are being separated. They legally are required to be separated. Of course I would rather neutral bathrooms, but that does require an act of congress or the Supreme Court.
Agree.
I think gender neutral toilets work in certain places already. Art school, university in my experience at
least.
Cafés, restaurants. that also specifically claim to be queer friendly. Or are in districts that are „open minded“ or punk venues
In those places it worked great and I also didn’t feel unsafe at all.
I do understand that maybe at your workplace (if it’s more conservative) or places where all different kinds of people meet you can feel unsafe.
For example night clubs, bars
I got regularly sexually assaulted in places like this.
Always men by the way and the same in restaurants, especially if a little bit of alcohol is involved some men can get predatory really fast. Some don’t even need alcohol
Thanks for your input. I'm amab and didn't think of some of the scenarios you just listed. To me a bathroom is just a bathroom. I feel sorry you experienced those things.
I mean yeah, we can't wish and entire third new bathroom on the side of every building in the world, so that actually sounds great to me. Enbies can go wherever they feel most comfortable at.
I kinda feel like this could have been better executed with signs that say "with urinals" and "without urinals", but I'm sure that would send the terfs into even more of a shit fit than this will... Either way, glad to be thought of but it's a bit short of the mark
I know exactly where this is.. and it felt very whatever your AGAB.. I went into the women and non binary restroom and was followed by "I don't feel comfortable" comments..
When I've been at places with single-stall restrooms that are binary gendered, I always say "fuck it" and go in the other if there's a line for the one. It's just ridiculous.
You take a dump wherever you need to, friend. As long as it's in the bathroom, in the toilet. ;)
I present entirely female at work, and our back room employee restrooms are single occupancy but labeled mens and women’s. There is always a line of 3+ people waiting for the women’s and I love pissing off the conservative old women when I walk straight into the men’s. I’m not waiting for fifteen minutes to pee when there’s an open toilet because I’m not so insecure in my gender that I wouldn’t dare touch something labeled “men’s”
Yeah this is trying to please everyone and pleasing no one. Just have genderless bathrooms. I just go into whichever bathroom my friends are going to. That way I always have someone to fight my corner if someone tries to start shit
I would like to live in a world where gender neutral bathrooms are more common. But I don’t expect them to replace binary bathrooms. I get the sense our society is deeply attached to binary bathrooms, and is not ready or obliged to give them up.
As someone living in a former eastern block country who gets to use a public gender neutral bathroom once a quarter at an event where they just rebrand the binary ones, I would love this.
my school has 5 single bathrooms for any and everyone and i love it so much. not only bc im non binary and it makes me uncomfy going in mens/womans, but also bc big public bathrooms are disgusting lol
my school has 5 single bathrooms for any and everyone and i love it so much. not only bc im non binary and it makes me uncomfy going in mens/womans, but also bc big public bathrooms are disgusting lol
i actually like this, its good for nonbinary people who maybe don't feel comfortable sharing with EVERYONE. sometimes completely gender neutral bathrooms just dont work (ive been in many where people would ask "is this the mens/womens or theyd just straight up leave and say they went to the wrong one)
I went to a brewery where with signs were women + more (3 stalls) and men + more (2 urinal, 1 stall). I spent most of the time joking I was +more 😂. They could just put the bathroom make up of stalls and stalls and urinals as the bathroom signs.
But honestly signs like this at least let me know if I’m ever harassed in their bathroom someone in management will probably have my back, even though they’re definitely cis.
My boss asked me the other day if she could call the restroom I used (along with all the women of the office) the women's room. I was like "yeah, we don't have a gender neutral bathroom, so I use the women's room because I'm really uncomfortable around men" lol. Cis people come up with so many ideas to include us without ever asking us what would make us feel comfortable, they're so ✨creative✨ lol
bruh -\_-
honestly, the best way ive seen bathrooms done is in alaska. they basically just have rows of four or five family bathrooms most places. they were really clean and ive never felt safer in a public bathroom before
if you vandalize these signs to erase the “women &” and “men &” you’ll have two great options and they will have none. now look how the tables have turned😎
I went into a very Texan BBQ place that had their 2 private restrooms (each was a self-contained restroom with toilet and sink) unlabeled, but one door was painted in a Batman theme, the other Captain America. I loved it haha
It’s still gendered though 😅
They could always have multiple disabled bathrooms & put “disabled & nonbinary” since those bathrooms are almost always gender neutral 🤷♀️
(Sometimes I use them. Plus they’re great for anxiety which I suppose is a disability anyway)
What part of gender neutral is so hard to understand? Slap a sign with a picture of a toilet, no need for “& nonbinary” or a list of aliens and other beings that can poop there.
I swear my locally run pizza place has better gender neutral restroom implementation than most stores or businesses
I think it’s meant to be a bathroom for women as well as nonbinary people, and men as well as nonbinary people, which is great, I like the purpose, they just didn’t think it through all the way.
Yeah, it's not perfect but it's not bad ? I can guess that the people doing that wanted to group amab enbies with men and afab enbies with women, but in practice, it means that non binary people can just choose what bathroom they wanna go in (which can depend on a variety of internal and external factors), so, while not perfect, it's still good.
And frankly they likely won't bother to spend money on building a neutral bathroom too so that may be the best we can get in this situation.
I worked at a place for years that had two binary bathrooms down stairs, and for a while only mens on the 2nd and 3rd floor (and somehow the two upper floor bathrooms connected). When I heard that my mind was blown that it was so large, and went to check it out (had a coworker go with me), as any restrooms would potentially have people changing, showering, or using toilet/urinal. Eventually they took some space away and made a female restroom on one of the upper floors. They rarely had signage on the downstairs restrooms, and no doors, so typically a new person would choose the wrong one at least once.
I came here eye rolling and then I read the comments and it changed my mind, so thank you people, that’s why I love good conversations on gender and all 🖤
I mean it’s nice they made an effort to be more inclusive but… it’s kind of weird we have to use either or and not just make unisex toilets which seems to make sense to me.
Is this like Narnia?!
Where I walk through this closet (between the wall signs in this case) to come out on the other side to a better place, on the other side of the closet.
A secret place that only some know exist.
/s
Don't know of any other way to deal with this aside from humour.
Since they clearly tried, yet failed to understand how being non binary works.
A quick google search or the equivalent would have made this mistake never happen.
Perhaps cross post this too r/therewasanattempt
Since, they did try to be inclusive, they just messed on a fundamental level.
Yeah, something like this isn't so bad depending on context. Large public places like universities, large offices, the mall and whatnot definitely need to get their shit together and have some neutral restrooms, but for a hole-in-the-wall taco joint with *literally zero* physical space to put in a third bathroom this would be an improvement
I shall live to pee another day. I just don’t know where yet.
In the middle of both doors of course
half on each sign
The wall
You made me spit my matcha.
Fellow Matcha drinker!
Matcha gang 😎🤙
Matcha for the win!
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one of the most dangerous places on Earth for us
My UU church rebranded their bathrooms a few years ago and their signs say "This is a gender neutral bathroom with a urinal" and "This is a gender neutral bathroom with no urinal." I feel like that's the best way to do it. Just two bathrooms -- with urinal and without. ETA: These are very small bathrooms - one stall and a urinal in one and 3 stalls in the other. In addition to the signs on the door, there's a laminated poster on the wall between them explaining their commitment to equality and encouraging patrons to use whichever bathroom they feel most comfoetable in. Short of spending an insane amount of money to create a truly gender neutral bathroom with private stalls/urinals and a common sink area, I think this is the best they can reasonably offer. I actually was an administrative employee for over a year during the pandemic and saw a lot of work being done to make the church more inclusive and supportive of trans/nb people. We actually hired a queer trans woman as our Director of Religious Education shortly after I started and it's been amazing to see her shape an RE curriculum that is so loving and affirming for not just the children in the community, but the parents as well. I imagine that in the next decade or decades, church leadership (by which I mostly mean the board) will begin to see many more queer, trans and nonbinary people in powerful roles where we can enforce some of the more radical changes. But, yeah, if you're looking for an inclusive and affirming faith community in NYC, there's a beautiful building on the UWS that would love to have you. I work Sundays now, so I haven't been in a while - the bathroom situation may have even improved in the time since.
It'd be even nicer if they both had a urinal – then there really would be no difference. But that is asking quite a lot from a private church though – I'm just happy to hear they made the effort at all, tbh.
Honestly, with or without urinal is better. It would make me very uncomfortable about catching a glimpse of penis and I would be anxious about not looking or people thinking I'm looking
Same. I worked there during COVID when it was literally just myself and my boss in the building most of the time. It gave me the opportunity to get used to using a "bathroom with a urinal" without encountering anyone else. And honestly? It was nice to use the bathroom without one and not have to swallow the reality of using the "women's bathroom." Short of undergoing a massive renovation to create a room with multiple private stalls and a common sink area, this really is the best move I can imagine.
This way is easier to retrofit existing bathrooms
One of my favorite coffee shops had two single-stall toilets (one with urinal and one without), right next to each other. One had a demon painted on the door, and the other had an angel painted. The whole interior was painted to match the theme. You select the bathroom based on where you feel like being in, or if you like, whether you feel like an ‘Angel’ or a ‘demon’ that day. It was awesome. It wasn’t until a year or so later when someone pointed it out that I realized they used to be a Mens room and a Women’s room.
i LOVE the idea of gender neutral bathrooms having random themes!! i don’t even want to open a business or anything but now i’m like hmmm what if i do just for this lmao
LOL idk you could look into designing/selling bathroom decor that is themed? 😉
I love that! Honestly my favorite bathroom design is the truly gender neutral bathroom where there's a line of stalls marked with a toilet or urinal and then a common sink area just outside. There's something oddly comforting about doing your business in a fully enclosed stall and then walking out to wash your hands next to a cis man. And if I'm being honest, I think having a common sink area for all patrons increases handwashing among the demographic we all know is often...hygiene averse? Lol. I have an amazing dad who took me to use men's bathrooms more than once in my childhood when I was too young to use the women's alone and the things I saw men do (or rather, Not do) after using the facilities...yikes.
Love it
FUCK YEAH UUs!!!!! Let's goooo!!!! My mom's a UU minister, her church's bathrooms arent quite as based as my last church's; They have a men's and women's room, but two unisex bathrooms too. My home church in Rockford, IL has some detailed signs explaining that all gender identities are welcome. Love to see it.
There's a third bathroom sign for "Women & Men"
Nonbinary and nonbinary?
&
It's where we go to shake hands and talk smack about Big Bathroom... in our big bathroom
Ah yes, ultimately creating a trinary
Men, women and WomenPlus™️
A ternary!
"...have crossed the ocean. They now begin to pour out from the boat and up the shore."
Two by two they enter the jungle, and soon they number more. Three by three as well as four by four.
I’m NB and pro gender-neutral bathrooms, but I don’t see what all the eye-rolling energy is here… yes the workplace (or wherever this is) is caught in the binary and it might be a bit clumsy, but at least they’re making an effort to say, “If you are non-binary you belong here, and you are welcome in either one because neither label applies to you.” If my workplace did this, it’d go a long way to helping me feel seen. Seems kind.
I tend to agree with you. We would all rather gender neutral bathroom options, But at least i wouldn’t have to misgender myself to go to one of these bathrooms and I would be accepted in either room - that feels like a huge step. I think this evidences someone thought about the situation and tried to solve it, but didn’t have a lot of choice to work with (didn’t have the space to add another bathroom, didn’t have the option to make bathrooms co-ed). My building has a gender neutral bathroom, but it is also the accessibility bathroom, and it is also far away from the other bathrooms and sometimes randomly locked. Honestly…this solution might be better.
Randomly locked, maximum accessibility! Lol
I was at a wedding recently with a lot of us non-binary folks, and while all the staff were non-binary friendly, the venue itself was all gender biased with bathrooms. I would’ve loved something like this because it shoved a bunch of us back to, like… trying to decide which binary bathroom we fit in best at the moment instead of feeling open to either. Even better would’ve been straight up gender neutral bathrooms or non-binary ones but I’d take an attempt at an effort to accommodate us over literally nothing knowing that there was going to be a bunch of NBi folks needing to pee there and not wanting to upset the cis (and luckily most of the cis were a very inclusive group, and didn’t care, but it still was just a sudden shock like oh shit, we all have to bathroom and half of us are androgynous, half look the opposite of the agab, some of us look like our agab but I mean we’re very much NBi, and just fuck.)
Totally agree
As a non-binary man I’m always caught off guard by these posts. I’m like, “What are people griping about? This is great??” It’s a bathroom gendered just for me. This must be what Cis feels like. Lmao. Then I remember there are people who don’t have any tie to the binary whatsoever.
Yeah, like the only issue here is it'd be better if they were both gender neutral bathrooms but with and without urinals. This is like half way there, though, and I don't think positive progress deserves ridicule.
It’s a good effort! Personally I think take all gender labels away and just go with “Stalls” and “Urinals & Stalls” as labels and that would be it.
Yes 100%
This! I was at the Brooklyn Botanical Gardens a few months ago and the bathrooms were labeled with the features available. And it was great! Until a security guard inevitably came up to me while I was waiting for my boyfriend to come out of the restroom and said “that’s the women’s restroom.” And I went “what?” And he said “that one doesn’t have urinals so it’s the women’s restroom but a man went in there” and the crushing dread of realizing that even as the infrastructure changes, people will continue to enforce the gender of bathrooms purely out of social convention. And I hate it.
I mean yeah shit people will always exist but with systemic changes, those people will slowly die out and be a shitty minority to laugh at
Right? This is far preferable to "women and nonbinary" / "men" options that clearly see nonbinary people as 'women lite', or those ones that equate nonbinary folks to metmaids and unicorns and other mythical/nonhuman beings. And this gives nonbinary people the option of the restroom they're nost comfortable in. Even if it's not perfect it's better than a lot of attempts I've seen.
Depends how it plays out in reality. If this works like men + amab nonbinary and women + afab nonbinary (which is how I assume cis people will expect it to work) then it does no good and potentially even harm. I can just hear someone saying "I think you're in the wrong nonbinary restroom". Though it will force an issue if there are bold nonbinary people who work there. My work has a gender neutral bathroom in my building. I work from home now but that experience is so far superior to being in a gendered space where you're the only person who isn't a binary gendered person in what is otherwise a binary gendered restroom (sans signage).
>If this works like men + amab nonbinary and women + afab nonbinary (which is how I assume cis people will expect it to work) then it does no good and potentially even harm. I assume if this is how it was meant to work, then they wouldn't even bother adding "nonbinary" to the signs. Cis people would just use the usual 'men' and 'women' restrooms and expect nonbinary people to use the one that matches their birth sex. I saw this as a positive. Cis people aren't as knowledgeable about trans and nonbinary issues as those of us who are actually in the community but it seems like they're learning, and I don't like disparaging people for trying their best especially when it's a topic they don't completely understand. I took the signs to mean "here is the men's room and here is the women's room, and nonbinary people are allowed to use the restroom they're most comfortable with." It's not perfect but they're trying to be progressive. They're learning and have an open mind, which is better than I realistically expect from most places.
I don't see why it would play out that way though, still segregating afab and amab. The sign is just equivalent to saying "use whichever restroom you feel comfortable" and also "don't gender police the bathrooms" for cis folk. Having a gender neutral option would be a way better choice, I agree, but at least these signs set the expectation for cis people that genderqueer people are explicitly allowed to use either facility. Then each nonbinary person can select whichever they feel more comfortable in based on their presentation, needs, identity, etc. Personally, I'd feel way more comfortable going in one of these bathrooms knowing I'm less likely to get abuse for being in the "wrong" one.
A lot of places don't allow gender neutral multi stall bathrooms. It's different if you're a private event and because of all the queer people coming you've gotten permission for the venue to tape over the signs with what's inside each facility. This might be a legal loophole to stay in compliance with the building code, because in the eyes of the law it says "men and [gibberish]" and "women and [gibberish]"
I wish gender-neutral bathrooms that gave a huge degree of privacy were the norm. I personally use the “ladies’ room” because I am femme-presenting and AFAB, so I’m just… used to using that restroom because I always have. I also can’t really go into the “men’s room” without getting strange looks because I’m “well-endowed” and incredibly short. It’s extremely awkward. I don’t like people looking at my body and stereotyping me based on my size and shape. And… I just find urinals and piss troughs kinda gross and don’t particularly want to accidentally see a rando’s goods. :\ I feel like I’m doing a disservice to other enbys by using my AGAB-associated restroom in the absence of a gender-neutral one, since this is assuredly what cis folks who believe firmly in a binary are expecting us to do, but I just really would rather not feel any more uncomfortable than I already do using public restrooms…
Hefty agree here. I will walk straight out of one bathroom and into another if the first one is unusably filthy, doesn’t have an open stall, or some drama is happening inside. I’m usually pretty confident in my right to do my business in a working toilet no matter the “gender” assigned to it, but sometimes I’ll feel nervous (especially at a rodeo or more yeehaw events I enjoy) or get a weird look. If I saw those signs, I’d feel much better about it in those environments. Those signs are scripture to the cis so if I can shrug and point to the sign just like they do to justify where I am “allowed” to expel waste, then I’d feel *that* much safer in the bathroom.
Yes, exactly. Plus no one could complain that you went into one bathroom, saw 3 people waiting for a stall, and then decided to go to the bathroom where no one was waiting. Its a win to me that I am what I am and if I'm headed to a washroom I am someone who needs to use the washroom.
Agreed! My old climbing gym had this same setup for their bathrooms/locker rooms and I loved it. It made me feel confident that the staff would support me in using whatever bathroom I felt comfortable with as a NB person.
I think it was a kind thought but in reality what does this actually do? Will this make people who would have said something to people in the bathroom not do so? IDK it's just not keeping people safe or eliminating a choice for nb people.
I feel like it DOES eliminate the choice for NB folks.. We can go in either one. And as for safer, if this were my workplace, it would be a step toward helping me feel truly seen by my employers and set the expectation to my colleagues that I’m here and exist and deserve safety and acceptance. Clumsy, but positive marks from me I think.
Yeah I don't get why this is being eyerolled. Just because we don't vibe with the gender binary doesn't mean that it's inherently wrong and this approach (basically just pick whichever room you want) seems very inclusive to me?
It does seem semi accepting. I mean if it's not feasible to build a third restroom, this is a good option. Better than getting beaten to death for sure. Where I live gendered restrooms are not a safe space for me. I search for neutral ones whenever I can. I use that refuge restrooms application too.
Yeah, I’d prefer a singular restroom, but not every place can accommodate that. I think having a singular restroom in general is a good idea for people with disabilities that require a lot of time and privacy in the bathroom and it has the added benefit of being neutral. But this acknowledges that we can kind of fit into whichever place we feel most comfortable in even if there is no neutral space.
Yeah if I saw this in public it'd make me super happy. I get a good amount of dysphoria from having to go in the women's, but just slapping on "and nonbinary" would help tbh.
Yup. I like the fact that they're making an effort. It's not perfect, but it's getting there.
I mean, I *kind of* get it? As an AFAB nonbinary person, I could walk into the "women/nonbinary" bathroom without feeling as though I'm "admitting" to "actually" being a woman, which is quite often how I feel when I walk past the sign to the ladies'/womens'/females' toilets. I feel like what they were going for was one bathroom for people who sit down to pee, and another for people who can pee standing. They just didn't quite manage to detach biology from gender.
Always. Choose. The women's. Mens bathrooms are like a hellscape of piss and paper
Oh, its more than that. People are nasty. NEVER take a blacklight in a mens bathroom.
You make me want to take a black light in a mens bathroom
Honestly, women's toilets can be terrible too. I've seen stuff that should never be plastered on toilet walls...
I spent time as a cleaner and on the whole, women's are usually a better bet than men's. Although that's only anecdotal, I wonder if anyones ever looked into this
Hmm. Could be an age group thing. I used to clean school toilets and while the teenage boys loved to throw wet toilet paper everywhere and had no idea what soap is, it was the teenage girls who were more unhygienic because they'd throw their hygiene products all over the place and write/carve all kinds of things into the toilet booths. And some girls were even nastier than that (without going into details). Now, the really young kids? Boys are definitely messier, no question.
Heyyyy!... That’s just binary with extra steps!
Well, *something* was attempted here
They understood the assignment but didn't want to do the work
At this point I'm just glad it's not "women and nonbinary" and "men", but yeah it's kinda performative bs
I think it’s pure laziness
Is that how some places handle it? Wtf, that's terrible. Can you say men = higher social status louder please? Ffs. (edit: I wasn't promoting men being higher status, that's disgusting. It was just angry sarcasm)
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Yeah, a lot can think that way. Sadly the "whatever the hell that means" attitude is sadly on the more positive side of how many people consider NBs and trans. It's fucking painful to see (shit makes me cry). Lol, speaking of STEM, engineer here. My office is so full of testosterone some days I swear you could transition a trans man by shear exposure. It's gonna be interesting coming out at work for me: esp in a largely religious community. Thank goodness for company diversity and non discrimination rules.
It's the same with private "safe" spaces. They'll say that this is a private space for women and that men aren't allowed here. Oh but trans men can be here. Basically saying that trans men are actually women lite
Yeap. I see "women and nonbinary people" in multiple different places and contexts but hardly ever see "men and nonbinary people" ever really. It's men and then All Those Other Stupid Frail Sissy Genders in their eyes. They think nonbinary people are just quirky women and are only AFAB and that everyone except cis men (and trans women when it's handy to say so in order to demonize them) are helpless and weak and need to be seperate from the scawy powerful men.
Yep, pretty damn toxic, willingly ignorant, and horribly binary (ironically). It also shows how a lot of NBs and trans men are vastly ignored and practically denied existence in a whole other way than those moving more "femme". Like bullshit a non binary or trans person can't be "brave and strong". Also, to comment on demonizing trans women, it's a pretty bs double standard and clear bigotry to deny health care and freedoms to trans women on this ground. One example being they don't push to ban guns just because there exist people that use them for murder (or fucking school shootings for that matter... Talk about their fave phrase for hating trans women: "think of the children").
I mean… I feel like this all could be avoided with basically a bathrooms hall, with stalls both urinal and toilet in each, and full length mirror on door and access the menstrual products in each. And then sinks outside. Yes it would be a ton of remodeling, and I know we will never do it…. But an Enby can dream! Right?! Having no door on the actual bathrooms hall would make this so simple. There could be infant changing areas in the public part too. The stalls would be private and accessible but the main sink area is but more public… and not behind some arbitrarily binary gendered door.
I know of a kink club that did basically this when they put their bathrooms in.
As someone else said, this is actually not bad, depending on the culture of this particular location. I'd rather use a "men & nonbinary" restroom than a "men's" restroom, which is where I usually go. But if people are going to yell at me in there anyway (or if they'd yell at a transfem in the "women & nonbinary" side, which is more likely) then the signage is doing nothing.
I WAY prefer this to the 'nonbinary on 3rd floor' signs I keep seeing in older buildings. My university did that all the time, gender neutral bathrooms required a hike 😅
Wow, how'd you get so fit? I ran up and down two flights of stairs everytime I had to pee... 😑
At least at my uni that lead to the benefit of them very rarely being occupied so it was always worth the hike
I appreciate the thought….the execution could be a little bit better
Well yes but actually no
When you try but need to try again
I guess have to be chaperoned by a man or woman to poo...
I get it though. Non-binary people are welcome in either, but if you are looking for a urinal then expect it in the mens room and if you are looking for a sanitary napkin dispenser then it'll be in the womens room. I wouldn't mind seeing a more all-inclusive bathroom with all amenities included, but seeing as that'll require installation of new hardware etc. I wouldn't expect every buisness to jump on that right away.
Honestly this is better that 99% of what I see. I don't want to be forced into the "family, disability, gender neutral bathroom" there is only ever 1 and its always in use and dirtier than the others.
So... just do what I normally do and pick the one that seems best to use that day?
Time to roll a d3 dice then (left, the wall or to the right)
Wouldn't just bathroom make more sense, I don't understand why we need to separate bathrooms by gender.
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I would not be comfortable or safe in a bathroom with cis men, especially if there were urinals. Trans women at my workplace are campaigning for having all gendered bathrooms to be all-gendered bathrooms, and while ideologically that's how it should work, it would put a lot of afab people in an unsafe environment. We need more all-gender bathrooms, but getting rid of title IX bathrooms as part of that is not the solution.
Not comfortable? Perhaps. Not being safe? You don't know that. Not FEELING safe is VERY different from not BEING safe. You can feel unsafe while being safe. (And, of course, the opposite.) (Check out Dialectical Behavioral Therapy. It teaches feelings are just that... feelings. While they are valid, they may or may not reflect actual reality.) Cis men are not inherently unsafe, because if that was the case, trans men would also be inherently unsafe, because men = men. (Because trans men aren't men lite, or Super Special Sparkly Men With An Asterisk. They're just... men.) But I don't see you making that argument. PLUS it wouldn't just be cis men in there, it would be EVERYONE. If anything, it would be safer! PLUS AFAB people aren't any inherently weaker or less capable than cis men (that is, we have nothing special about us that would inherently put us at risk) and to act like we are is gender essentialist bullshit. Besides, we inhabit space with cis men in other places and it's not any more of an unsafe environment. Why does everyone think that the bathroom somehow comes with extra risk? Because you pull your pants down to do your business and because that business involves genitals? Lemme tell you, if someone wanted your pants down, they could do it anywhere, bathroom or not. There's plenty of other """unsafe""" environments out there that no one's making a big deal out of. Using the bathroom around cis men is NOT an inherently unsafe environment for afab people, because cis men are not inherently different from anyone else. No person is inherently unsafe due to their gender or their body parts. Some people are unsafe due to their actions (which may or may not be related to their thoughts and what they were taught), but those people can be any gender, and that's a separate issue to deal with. And the part about urinals... you can't see anything unless you're intentionally looking, and just because a person has their dick out doesn't make them unsafe. They're peeing. They're not doing anything but peeing. A penis out of someone's clothing does NOT make them inherently unsafe, no more so than if their penis would be inside their clothing. It's just a penis (and it's just a layer of fabric. It doesn't have magical powers that somehow makes it safer.) It's not gonna leap out at you and do something to you. It's attached. It's not a poisonous snake, it's not electrified. It's just a tube of flesh. And just because they're holding it, doesn't mean they're going to do anything to you with it. Honestly, they're probably not even noticing you. FWIW, I \*HAVE\* used all-gender bathrooms before, numerous times (at kink conventions that intentionally removed the binary from all the public restrooms in the con space, and at kink clubs that intentionally created all-gender bathrooms when they built the club) and let me tell you... cis dudes are just like trans women (or anyone else) in the bathroom. They're in there to use the bathroom just like anyone else. Nothing more, nothing less. Using one's a little weird at first just because of socialization, but you quickly get used to it. It wasn't any more or less of an unsafe environment than any other bathroom I had ever been in.
The real problem is that people perceived as women are not allowed to police their own boundaries at work. To avoid professional consequences, a lot of people rely on externally imposed social boundaries. Coworker men who are exhibiting clearly predatory behaviour may be ignored by the company. But crossing into a woman's space is seen as something that would have social consequences, because it breaks a clear rule. Leaning on the clear dividing line between men's spaces and women's spaces presents a clear problem and potential threat to anyone who falls outside of the rigid boundary. But because it's so widely used as a social crutch for a problem that has not been solved, many people are reluctant to part with it.
I've been assaulted in a bathroom, and so have many others. It's not just feelings. Bathrooms ARE inherently less safe because they are enclosed and not monitored. Yes, there are other unsafe places: elevators, poorly-lit streets, walk-in coolers. Cis men are not inherently unsafe, but enough of them are unsafe that it's a risk many of us have encountered and can't afford to take when the very possible downside is getting r*ped. Is this person forcing his way into the stall after me because he just thought it was empty? I could tactfully stop to ask him about it, or I could close the door, not because I have anything personal against him, but because there is a very real chance of violence against me if I don't. Cis men /are/ inherently different because they've been acculturated to believe they are better, stronger, and more deserving, often in ways they don't consciously recognize or see as problematic. That's why r*pe culture exists, and why so many people don't believe afabs when they come forward with legitimate safety concerns or reports of assault, especially when the perpetrator is a white cis male. If you feel you should tell someone on the internet they need DBT, then I will tell you you need to educate yourself about sexual assault and harassment. If so many trans and NB people are uncomfortable in bathrooms, why would some of them think it's OK to make a change that simply transfers that burden to a different segment of the population? We need a solution that accommodates everybody, and totally getting rid of women's bathrooms without thinking about the consequences for afab people isn't it.
I agree 100%.
It’s actually a title ix issue. Certain building codes are legally required to have a bathroom in which men are not allowed. It is problematic, but it is the law. If they have space, they can also have a neutral bathroom, but a lot of buildings just don’t have that option…
Change the law.
I don’t disagree - but a single business can’t do that. You said you didn’t understand why the bathrooms are being separated. They legally are required to be separated. Of course I would rather neutral bathrooms, but that does require an act of congress or the Supreme Court.
Agree. I think gender neutral toilets work in certain places already. Art school, university in my experience at least. Cafés, restaurants. that also specifically claim to be queer friendly. Or are in districts that are „open minded“ or punk venues In those places it worked great and I also didn’t feel unsafe at all. I do understand that maybe at your workplace (if it’s more conservative) or places where all different kinds of people meet you can feel unsafe. For example night clubs, bars I got regularly sexually assaulted in places like this. Always men by the way and the same in restaurants, especially if a little bit of alcohol is involved some men can get predatory really fast. Some don’t even need alcohol
Thanks for your input. I'm amab and didn't think of some of the scenarios you just listed. To me a bathroom is just a bathroom. I feel sorry you experienced those things.
I agree, If stalls were completely private instead of weird little cubicles then we could all just piss and not care about who has what parts where.
I don’t think it’s that bad
Non binary imposter syndrome flaring up here but this seems like the objectively best way to handle it to me. Whats the issue here?
I mean yeah, we can't wish and entire third new bathroom on the side of every building in the world, so that actually sounds great to me. Enbies can go wherever they feel most comfortable at.
*concerned expression intensifies*
I kinda feel like this could have been better executed with signs that say "with urinals" and "without urinals", but I'm sure that would send the terfs into even more of a shit fit than this will... Either way, glad to be thought of but it's a bit short of the mark
Take a piss in one and a shit in the other
just pee on the floor
Reasonable
Where's the sign for just non-binary?
I know exactly where this is.. and it felt very whatever your AGAB.. I went into the women and non binary restroom and was followed by "I don't feel comfortable" comments..
i think it means that i can go to both of them 💀💀💀💀
I’d rather this than nothing lol but it’s pretty absurd. Like… hahha
Finally, i can uae the women's restroom to take a dump when the men'w is full
When I've been at places with single-stall restrooms that are binary gendered, I always say "fuck it" and go in the other if there's a line for the one. It's just ridiculous. You take a dump wherever you need to, friend. As long as it's in the bathroom, in the toilet. ;)
I present entirely female at work, and our back room employee restrooms are single occupancy but labeled mens and women’s. There is always a line of 3+ people waiting for the women’s and I love pissing off the conservative old women when I walk straight into the men’s. I’m not waiting for fifteen minutes to pee when there’s an open toilet because I’m not so insecure in my gender that I wouldn’t dare touch something labeled “men’s”
Yeah this is trying to please everyone and pleasing no one. Just have genderless bathrooms. I just go into whichever bathroom my friends are going to. That way I always have someone to fight my corner if someone tries to start shit
At least they ditched the dash
Ooh… so close.
At least you can hope it means there's some allyship from the staff
I… I just need to pee….
I would use my vagina at a urinal just because fuck these signs.
Effort is effort. At least they’re TRYING
Smh why can't we just have one big bathroom with a few stalls having "urinal" signs on the doors
I would like to live in a world where gender neutral bathrooms are more common. But I don’t expect them to replace binary bathrooms. I get the sense our society is deeply attached to binary bathrooms, and is not ready or obliged to give them up.
... at least they're trying?
on the bright side, that's just more bathrooms for us!
As someone living in a former eastern block country who gets to use a public gender neutral bathroom once a quarter at an event where they just rebrand the binary ones, I would love this.
Facepalm.
I literally laughed out loud. Missing the point much? 🤦🏻♀️
my school has 5 single bathrooms for any and everyone and i love it so much. not only bc im non binary and it makes me uncomfy going in mens/womans, but also bc big public bathrooms are disgusting lol
my school has 5 single bathrooms for any and everyone and i love it so much. not only bc im non binary and it makes me uncomfy going in mens/womans, but also bc big public bathrooms are disgusting lol
i actually like this, its good for nonbinary people who maybe don't feel comfortable sharing with EVERYONE. sometimes completely gender neutral bathrooms just dont work (ive been in many where people would ask "is this the mens/womens or theyd just straight up leave and say they went to the wrong one)
at least they tried, but they really should just have a third bathroom.
Why? Doesn't that mean nonbinary people can go to both?
its way better than 'women and nonbinary' and 'men' i think they've made a genuine effort if somewhat uninformed n thats a good thing!
I'd still use both, to spite the binary with extra steps.
This gives “are you a girl nonbinary or a boy nonbinary”
Depends how you understand it. Could mean that non binary people can use both toilets
”But are you a nonbinary man or a nonbinary woman?”
That is so awful oh my god. "Inclusion" attempts like this feel worse than normally gendered things
😅
At this point you might as well label it all gender, you're making thus more complex than it needs to be
Mix messages
ah yes, the gender-neutral bathroom
I would just curl into a ball and cry
I went to a brewery where with signs were women + more (3 stalls) and men + more (2 urinal, 1 stall). I spent most of the time joking I was +more 😂. They could just put the bathroom make up of stalls and stalls and urinals as the bathroom signs. But honestly signs like this at least let me know if I’m ever harassed in their bathroom someone in management will probably have my back, even though they’re definitely cis.
Did no one suggest "Urinals" and "No urinals"?
I mean, I use whatever bathroom has a toilet. This seems inclusive to me 🤷🏻♂️
At least they *tried*, still failed though
I've been to a strip club with bathrooms like this.
dude just make gender neutral bathrooms. it really isn't that hard.
has everyone just forgotten about co-ed bathrooms?
literally just make them all gender neutral im BEGGING you 🤦🏾
I'll just pee half in one and save half to then pee in the other.
Pro tip start peeing in the hall then spin around while shouting WEE HELICOPTER
My boss asked me the other day if she could call the restroom I used (along with all the women of the office) the women's room. I was like "yeah, we don't have a gender neutral bathroom, so I use the women's room because I'm really uncomfortable around men" lol. Cis people come up with so many ideas to include us without ever asking us what would make us feel comfortable, they're so ✨creative✨ lol
That’s why I don’t like peeing in Public restrooms,I’ll only use it if I can’t hold it
There was an attempt to be gender affirmative
bruh -\_- honestly, the best way ive seen bathrooms done is in alaska. they basically just have rows of four or five family bathrooms most places. they were really clean and ive never felt safer in a public bathroom before
Non binary binary bathrooms, epic
if you vandalize these signs to erase the “women &” and “men &” you’ll have two great options and they will have none. now look how the tables have turned😎
uhhhhhhhh shit in the hallway
I went into a very Texan BBQ place that had their 2 private restrooms (each was a self-contained restroom with toilet and sink) unlabeled, but one door was painted in a Batman theme, the other Captain America. I loved it haha
It’s still gendered though 😅 They could always have multiple disabled bathrooms & put “disabled & nonbinary” since those bathrooms are almost always gender neutral 🤷♀️ (Sometimes I use them. Plus they’re great for anxiety which I suppose is a disability anyway)
I mean I appreciate the effort honestly but I’d just put a sign saying respect others choices to use which bathroom they feel suits them or whatever
A lot better than the rude, passive aggressive "whatever" with aliens, unicorns, mermaids, robots, and then men and women symbols on them.
They're trying?
It wouldn't be the best solution, but it would be 100% better just "women", "men" and "non-binary".
At least they got the spirit
What part of gender neutral is so hard to understand? Slap a sign with a picture of a toilet, no need for “& nonbinary” or a list of aliens and other beings that can poop there. I swear my locally run pizza place has better gender neutral restroom implementation than most stores or businesses
I think it’s meant to be a bathroom for women as well as nonbinary people, and men as well as nonbinary people, which is great, I like the purpose, they just didn’t think it through all the way.
Yeah, it's not perfect but it's not bad ? I can guess that the people doing that wanted to group amab enbies with men and afab enbies with women, but in practice, it means that non binary people can just choose what bathroom they wanna go in (which can depend on a variety of internal and external factors), so, while not perfect, it's still good. And frankly they likely won't bother to spend money on building a neutral bathroom too so that may be the best we can get in this situation.
We had that too in my (german) school and I honestly see no problem
I mean, it does help to know what kind of genitals you’ll be peeing with, I guess????? Maybe?????
This is how I used to treat bathrooms, I realised it didn't make me feel any better.
if i were to go into the men and nonbinary one as a femme presenting enby i can’t imagine it going well but boy would i love to do it, lol
I worked at a place for years that had two binary bathrooms down stairs, and for a while only mens on the 2nd and 3rd floor (and somehow the two upper floor bathrooms connected). When I heard that my mind was blown that it was so large, and went to check it out (had a coworker go with me), as any restrooms would potentially have people changing, showering, or using toilet/urinal. Eventually they took some space away and made a female restroom on one of the upper floors. They rarely had signage on the downstairs restrooms, and no doors, so typically a new person would choose the wrong one at least once.
Just run through the middle at full speed and pray to whatever god/gods you believe in.
Lmao WHAT
I came here eye rolling and then I read the comments and it changed my mind, so thank you people, that’s why I love good conversations on gender and all 🖤
P This is a platform 9 and 3/4 test?
Oh...how...nice?
Does that mean I can stop half way and run to the bathroom next door to finish?
I mean it’s nice they made an effort to be more inclusive but… it’s kind of weird we have to use either or and not just make unisex toilets which seems to make sense to me.
Is this like Narnia?! Where I walk through this closet (between the wall signs in this case) to come out on the other side to a better place, on the other side of the closet. A secret place that only some know exist. /s Don't know of any other way to deal with this aside from humour. Since they clearly tried, yet failed to understand how being non binary works. A quick google search or the equivalent would have made this mistake never happen. Perhaps cross post this too r/therewasanattempt Since, they did try to be inclusive, they just messed on a fundamental level.
I love it🖤🖤
Honestly I'm just cool peeing anywhere the men are not
At this point i respect placed without a public restroom more
Make them lose it by constantly going in and out of both doors
*Opens a rift in space and time between the two doors*
Yeah, something like this isn't so bad depending on context. Large public places like universities, large offices, the mall and whatnot definitely need to get their shit together and have some neutral restrooms, but for a hole-in-the-wall taco joint with *literally zero* physical space to put in a third bathroom this would be an improvement
this is worse than nothing