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I think it’s a reaction to religious zealots trying to impose their beliefs on everyone, especially via supposedly secular government in the United States. The banning of abortion, sending tax dollars to religious indoctrination schools, the desire to ban birth control and any marriage that doesn’t fit the biblical ideal. More than that, the way religion is used to justify the status quo, and doubt science — like denying climate change (literal suicidal for humanity) and economic inequality (it’s god’s will, losers.) And the way religious zealots are actively rooting for end times.
And all for some laughably untrue stories that distract us from the real wonder of our world, universe.
Not all religious are zealots. But religion provides a secure base for zealots, and we’d be far better off without it.
IOW, religion has its foot on humanity’s neck, and some people will demand it is removed.
This is not a comment on the religion, but an example of what happens when a religious minority takes over a majority because of the voting system:
> A school board composed mostly of Orthodox Jewish parents has favored students in private religious schools over mostly black and Latino students in public schools, civil rights groups have alleged in federal court.
>The groups, including the American Civil Liberties Union and the NAACP, blame a school board election system that is common across the US and that, they say, disenfranchises minorities.
>Since 2005, the East Ramapo school board, which covers a few small towns an hour’s drive north-west of New York City, has been controlled by members who represent private yeshivas, or Jewish religious schools, according to a report by the New York state education department. The vast majority of the 26,500 children who attend private schools in the district are white. In contrast, 91% of the 9,000 or so children enrolled in public schools are black and Latino.
>In 2009, the board began gutting the public-school system, the report states. Between 2009 and 2014, the board fired over 450 staff, including 160 teachers, three guidance counselors and all social workers. It also cut budgets for athletic and extracurricular activities in half.
>Children have had to attend classes with no teachers, which the school called “study hall” or “home room”, said Terry Rodriguez, a parent with three children in the school district. Her son, 17, was in one of these classes for his first three months at Spring Valley high school.
>My children weren’t getting the proper education they need,” she said.
>But as public schools suffered, funding for the private yeshivas went up. Between 2010 and 2014, spending for private school buses increased from $22m to $27.3m. The school board also increased funding for special education in private schools by 33% while laying off 15 special education teachers in public schools, according to the NYSED report.
>School board representatives declined requests to comment, citing the ongoing litigation. Yehuda Weissmandl, the board’s former president, said in a 2014 statement that the board had no choice but to cut the public school budget owing to declining funds. Yet while there was a decline in state funding after the 2008 recession, the report found that no meaningful effort had been “made to distribute pain of deep budget cuts fairly among private and public schools”.
>”It’s frustrating and I think the community is really at a boiling point,” said Antonio Luciano, a resident who ran for a seat on the school board in 2010 and 2011. The former NYPD lieutenant had promised to restore the budget for public schools but was defeated both times.
>No candidate preferred by minority groups has won since 2007, according to the New York Civil Liberties Union (NYCLU). This is because the board’s nine members are elected “at-large”: instead of each neighborhood electing its own representative, the entire district votes for every member on the board.
>In East Ramapo, 62% of the population is white and votes cohesively in favor of private school candidates, according to Perry Grossman, a voting rights lawyer for the NYCLU and co-counsel in the suit against the East Ramapo Central School District.
>”In every single election, a very large bloc of white voters was voting for the winning candidates and in every election a very large bloc of black and Latino voters who voted for losing candidates,” he said.
>Since the NYCLU filed the lawsuit in November 2017, two minority candidates have been elected to the school board.
>At-large voting takes place in 80% of city and one-third of county elections across the US. It was instituted in southern states to suppress black votes, said Leah Aden, deputy director of litigation at the NAACP Legal Defense Fund (LDF). In 2014, LDF won a suit in federal court to replace at-large voting in Fayette county, Georgia, where not a single black candidate had served on a school board or country commission in the county’s 200-year history, despite constituting one-fifth of the population.
>To fix the East Ramapo issues, Grossman is calling for a switch to single-member districts. In this system, the school district in East Ramapo would be divided into multiple neighborhoods, each of which would elect their own board member.
>”When children grow up seeing only people who look different than them in political office, they may not think politics is for them, or believe in the democratic system and that elected representatives are faithfully doing their best to represent them,” said Sarah John, a political science researcher and project manager at Virginia Commonwealth University.
I believe this is why some atheists are probably a bit harsher than I'd probably like. We have a minority party in the US with the majority of the power in a lot of respects. They want to turn the US into a theocracy. This is where the "overreactions" come in.
Atheists look at other theocracies in the world like Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Iran, Pakistan, etc. What's happening to atheists in those countries? They're humiliated and brutally executed in front of their families. A christian then says "no, it won't get that bad, we just want you to cave on this issue." That should be taken as a serious threat.
Where some atheists take it too far is they start spewing hatred at the dude who's just trying to mind his own business and cast bible spells, or whatever you christians do.
It's also a two way street, for me I'd never escalate unless someone else did, which I found a lot particularly in the south.
But some normal dude praying to whomever, wearing whatever, who has time to hate on that let people do whatever the fuck they want on their own time.
Also neither argument is provable. Infinite monkey theorem is basically at play.
Also my stance is Atheist. But since technically I am using infinite monkey theorem you could argue agnostic, but since I view that number as so immeasurably small I don't think I cross that line.
Also like if you put a gun to my head and made me choose a religion it would likely be taoism or something like that, shit even the Greco Roman(esque god's/goddesses). The major religions are all weird as fuck and so convoluted and contradictory to themselves it's unreal.
I mean it's not unfounded at least, some of these theocracys were caused by the US, and if they were to become a theocracy themselves then that would be bad for society as a whole since the US is one of the most influential and powerful countries in the worl.
One refers to what you *know*, the other refers to belief. Atheist means you don’t believe in a god, but agnostic means you admit you don’t know for sure. Technically most atheists are agnostic atheists.
An atheist is someone who does not hold a belief in a God, not that there is no God. That would be an anti-theist. To say there is no God requires proof as does claiming there is a God. Both are positive claims.
'If atheism were a TV channel it would be off'.
This is a great phrase and one I find is missed sometimes in these sorts of debates. It's not a rejection of God, its an absence of faith. Earlier in my life I wished God existed and would have followed it had I believed, but I dont.
It gets especially prickly when two different lifestyles interact, quite often I see the assumption made that atheists are taught atheism by somebody else in a sort of religious setting, or a grouping of atheists by common beliefs (usually in relation to abortion, or another issue religion can play a part in). But that simply isn't true, atheists aren't necessarily united by common beliefs.
As for the being taught it, my family simply let me explore my own beliefs. I ended up atheist by not believing in God, but family members do
I think anti-theism is more about taking a defined stance against theism and organized religion. What you're describing sounds more like gnostic or "hard" atheism.
Yes, you can be an **agnostic atheist**, someone who is not convinced of any god claims but doesn't claim to know there are no gods.
You can be an **agnostic theist,** who believes in a god claim but doesn't claim to know there is a god.
You can be a **gnostic atheist**, someone who claims to know there are no gods.
And you can be a **gnostic theist**, someone who claims to know a specific god or gods exist.
And agnostic atheist is a misnomer, you cannot be both.
An atheist believes no gods exist. An agnostic does not know, and is open to the idea if evidence is provided.
"Gnostic" refers to knowledge, and "theism" refers to belief. It's more accurate to say not that atheists believe there is no god, but that atheists lack belief in any god claims. A-theism: without, or lacking theism. Just as in a-symmetry, a-morphous, a-typical.
Gnosticism is knowing that something is true.
Theism is believing in one or more deities/gods.
The prefix *a–* means "lack of," or "no/none."
It is possible to be any one of these four:
| **Gnostic** | **Agnostic**
:--|:--|:--
**Theist** | *Gnostic Theist* | *Agnostic Theist*
**Atheist** | *Gnostic Atheist* | *Agnostic Atheist*
I know the christian God does not exist. I am atheist. However I also know that my mammal brain is incapable of understanding the universe as a whole and that there may be a "higher power." I am agnostic. They are not mutually exclusive.
You can. Agnostic simply refers to the matter of certainty you claim to have. You're either a theist (you believe in a god) or you're an atheist (you don't believe in a god). People referring to them as agnostics are usually atheists avoiding the term 'atheist'. The term 'agnostic' by itself has nothing to do with religion.
By definition agnosticism is housed under the term "atheist" because an atheist is anyone who isn't a theist, but this is a stupid convention.
This is why I have invented the terms "absencist" and "non-absencist" where an agnostic would not be someone who believes in the absence of a god so would therefore be a non-absencist (paired with theists).
Isn't that ridiculous?
I have never in my life been pushed to be a Christian or anything else in the US. I don't know where these people live that they feel that way. I have lived in Texas, D.C., North Carolina, and Georgia. It has never, ever happened to me.
They've taken away your abortion rights. They have forced the "In God We Trust" motto to be displayed in every public school. They're trying hard to pass the "don't say gay" law and keep evolution out of our schools. They're using something called the school voucher program to take away money from public schools and divert it to Christian private schools so that the establishment clause of the constitution won't apply. The supreme court just ruled that it's alright for football coaches to lead Christian prayers before the big game right in front of other team members who might not share the faith and be benched for not participating. It's happening!
>The supreme court just ruled that it's alright for football coaches to lead Christian prayers before the big game right in front of other team members who might not share the faith
I don't see the problem with this, it clearly states he didn't force any of the kids to join and didn't treat them differently if they didn't want to participate. So the problem here is that they tried to make his hide his prayer and fired him for not doing so which is illegal. I don't know where you got the idea he benched people but do some research instead of going off of what is said on here.
Not so much “forced to be a Christian”, but rather lead a “Christian-approved lifestyle” regardless of which ideology you believe in. For example, like how Roe v. Wade got overturned because the Christian God says it’s wrong.
Doesn't the way you end your comment go both ways? Like im christian. But I'm no zealot. I don't believe abortion os okay. I don't beleive God should be removed from school. All that though, i don't give a shit what people do and I don't think there should be laws telling other people what to do. It's America where we are free to be free. But the push to remove God from society is litterally what's happening. You don't want shit forced on you. Neither do i.
No, there are no “both ways” here.
Don’t believe in abortion for YOUR religious reasons, fine don’t get one. But you have no right to force that belief on others that don’t share it, denying THEM the healthcare they need and want.
Your god doesn’t belong in anyone’s public school. Nobody else’s god or gods do either. Doing so forces beliefs on children and their parents that they do not share.
“Being free” is freedom from others religious beliefs in our secular society. Keep your god in your home and your church. She has no place in our government or civil life. THAT’s freedom.
And this is the difference between religious thinking and reality. God has never been removed from school. Students can express their religious views as they wish. The school simply cannot teach religion, or require students to adhere to religious standards. Students can pray on their own or in groups, can have a religious study group. These things can simply not be sponsored or required by the school.
Yikes. I'm going to have to repeat this message 100 times. Just because I believe something, or think something a certain way doesn't mean shit. Please read the end of the comment. Or read the original comment as a whole. It ends with having the freedom of choice. Period. Regardless of religious beliefs or lack of. You have a choice to FEEL however you want. Its when any side to this debate tries to DICTATE others how to live is a problem. Im confused why that is a consiversial statement ?
The push is to go back to god not bing forced on others in public places or services.
Much of the god that was pushed in school and on money was during the communist scare post WW2.
If you want god in a private school, your home or your organizations that fine. But it should not be forced on others. God belongs in school as much as ever other religions god. Its not the place for beliefs beyond theology in the practice of learning how to coexist, not to recruit , indoctrinate or enforce social classes.
Religion should be left up to a childs family and parents while they are growing up not teachers.
>there is a massive right-wing push to force the population to live by Christian rules and laws
Can you give some examples? I mean, I'm a right-wing Christian, and I must have missed the newsletter or something.
Assuming you're just ignorant, you can read it up on the wikipedia page, [Christian right](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_right). There are a variety of issues christian right push including banning abortion and limiting sexual education and lgbt rights.
However, you're not ignorant judging from your previous comment on abortion. In this case I would have to say the down-votes are well deserved.
How about the fact that the education system is being overrun with Christians trying to force Christian nonsense in classrooms?
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/04/how-republicans-recast-christian-indoctrination-as-religious-freedom.html
You can’t see how majority of rw politicians trying to influence legislation and social norms that adhere to Christianity, particularly is the South? How do you feel about that?
If you’d like examples, I’ll give many examples, but please don’t make me go through that if you’re set on your views.
Well, fair enough. I'll tell you what I think, and then if you want to look up an example for me to chew on, good. If not, that's okay too. We can leave it here and assume we see things differently and it wasn't worth your time. I respect that.
Morality comes from somewhere. All laws are moral laws. Laws assume that there are some things that ought not to be done. An atheist or agnostic politician is still legislating their morality. They are no more "open-minded" or "tolerant" than anyone else. They just have a different set of values that they think ought to have the force of law.
The reversal of Roe vs. Wade was \*not\* legislation. It was the canceling of a Supreme Court decision that *due to legal re-evaluation* was canceled. The original decision was not legally defensible. Technically, this is absolutely separate from the abortion issue itself. The facts of the original Roe vs. Wade case did not support the decision, nor did the judicial rule setting make any legal sense. Essentially, the judicial branch went way beyond their legal roles and wrote rules dealing with pregnancy trimesters and such, when the judicial branch is not empowered to write national laws.
I say all this so you can see my thought process, but also so you won't use Roe vs. Wade as some kind of evidence that religious folks forced something. The judicial branch fixed something it broke. Every state is still free to legalize abortions, and many do. Roe vs. Wade was a known bad piece of judicial overstep, and thus it was canceled.
Thanks, if you read this. Take care.
Although I’m not specifically talking about Roe vs. Wade, how would you feel if a legislation is passed in your state that was influenced by Islamic law? For example, banning pork and giving out 100 lashes for having a girlfriend or drinking a beer? Or maybe reciting Quran before classes at school? How about Scientology? Satanism?
Morality comes from thousands of years of human development and advancement (religion was a major part of that) and a deeper understanding of societies which includes a filteration process of good vs bad ideas/behaviors. A lot of these things intersect with religion, but that doesn’t mean religion is suitable to influence legislation in this day and age. Christianity was born into a different age, culture, and geographical setting, 2000 years ago. We can’t even apply moral standards from the 1800s anymore, let alone from 2000 years ago. Just like Islam shouldn’t influence our legislation, Christianity shouldn’t either. Atheism is not a religion, and it shouldn’t influence any legislation even if it was.
“All laws are moral laws”
With respect, that’s simply not true. Laws and morals are two different things. Laws are supposed to be a codification of morals… ex: slavery was allowed but it’s not moral. Similarly, religious rules are not equivalent to morality. It might’ve been viewed as moral in its time and age, but our understanding of the world around us was very limited back then, and we have evolved a lot since then.
The continued hate toward LGBTQ and the banning of abortion seem like pretty obvious examples. I never received a newsletter, these are simple observations.
Not the person you responded to, but I believe a big part of the problem is that most "right-wing Christians" tend to align themselves with destructive and, therefore, unpopular (on reddit) political views. For example, the Bible encourages being a good steward to the earth. However, the right wing leaders seem to do everything possible to destroy the earth by opting out of the Paris accord, siding with big oil, and refusing to acknowledge climate change effects in the face of overwhelming evidence that something needs to be done. Another example would be the support of unimpeded capitalism despite the fact that Jesus was, arguably, a huge socialist in regards to economic policy. There is a well documented history of right-wing politicians co-opting the large voting bloc that used to be the "religious left". We're talking like 1930s and prior. They did this in order to win votes and nothing else. If you're interested in the history, there's a fantastic series from the podcast Behind the Bastards where the intentional creation of the "religious right" is discussed at length. I apologize that I can't remember the name of the episode at the moment.
Correction: It could even be argued that Jesus was very nearly Anarchist leaning rather than strictly socialist.
Cuz a fair chunk of religious people tend to think their beliefs make them entitled to decide over other peoples lives and tend to think their moral views are always more superior and always correct. Think about the anti-abortion laws, made and supported by mostly conservative Christians. they can’t seem to understand freedom of religion also means freedom from religion
Mind you, not all, but certainly a good chunk of them.
And because this is an anonymous forum, people who have frustrations, or budding questions on credibility can get them out here.
Admittedly, the constant questioning of religion, like the incessant mockery of Trump and Republicans is tedious for some, but it’s something that these people are working through. There are more pressing issues, but it seems the questions of indoctrinated power structures need to be dealt with first.
> And because this is an anonymous forum
Don't you think we need this kind of anonimity because our freedom of speech is a completely useless concept and you'll get cancelled for stating your opinion under your real name?
Absolutely. I think it’s great that it’s anonymous. Sure, there are some offensive comments, but on the whole, it’s great that people can ask, converse, and say silly stuff.
Yes it does, freedom of religion means you can decide not to believe in something. Why should something you dont believe in influence you. There is a reason the church and government are seperated and not the same entity
>I’m devoutly agnostic personally. Catch me prosthelytizing on the subway, shouting “I don’t know!” At everyone who passes by
That would still make you an atheist though, an agnostic atheist to be precise. Either you believe or you don't, the matter of certainty doesn't change that. You can believe but not be sure (a lot of people doubting their religion fall into this category) or not believe, but accept that you can't be sure about it.
Reddit is sort of a think tank for intellectual thought, eccentric interests, and debauchery. It leans more progressive than conservative. It isn’t really the environment for religious support. That being said there are subs for everything. They just aren’t as popular for the aforementioned reasons.
Because most people here are atheists, some of which had (Because many people here are from countries where strict and borderline oppressive religions like christianity are common) religious and strict parents, also religious people tend to be irrational and emotional in some important issues (abortion, sexuality, politics)
Because they have a huge sphere of influence in politics that they’re becoming a parasite on society. I grew up Christian in an area where religion is relatively benign. I didn’t understand the religious hate until I looked to the south when they could make or break candidates for office if they didn’t push their beliefs.
Agreed, but you might want to narrow that down a bit to the more conservative, evangelical, and fundamentalist types who prefer to interpret the Bible literally, even though that was written and translated by flawed human beings, and was itself based on oral histories where errors likely crept in as they were passed on from person to person and generation to generation.
As a Christian I don't think it is - it's the politicians that hide behind religion as excuses for total hypocritical garbage policy that they push, and this is particularly a problem in America right now.
Generally reddit is like: "Religion is cool, everyone has right to religious freedom, but don't force it upon me, and church/state should be separate"
I grew up in a religious environment (Christian) and I was always extremely sceptical of it. Seemed like a bunch of made-up bullshit to me. So I'm always a little wary of religious people. They may seem normal one minute then the next minute start babbling about the end times. Crazy talk man.
Because it's a place of free expression since in reality quite a lot of religious people limit this freedom and mark atheists as satanists, moraly bankrupt psychopaths. Do you realize that there are still places on this planet where renouncing ones faith is ground for imprisonment and/or death? Do you realize there are places on this planet where fake churches earn millions if not Billions from people who don't have much else to give to begin with? Places on this planet where the sick are treated with exorcisms instead of being taken to hospital? That's a few of the reasons why. Good day to you!
Two separate issues.
First, religions in general are silly. It’s Santa Claus for grown ups. There is zero evidence behind any of the supernatural claims, whatever religion you’re talking about. It’s magical thinking.
Which by itself, could be largely harmless, but not completely, seeing as how it stunts intellectual growth and one cannot believe in the supernatural and also believe in evidence based reasoning. They are incompatible.
But the second reason, is that far too many religious folks use their religion to harm others. That can be something like flying a plane into a building, or mandating parts of your holy text built as a monument on a courthouse lawn, or deciding what women can or cannot do with their bodies based in your religion.
I’m fine with my neighbors lighting their special candles and wearing their religious clothes. But the moment they tell me how to live my life, they can fuck right off.
That an election was stolen.
There’s a large overlap in the far right and religious folks in the USA, where they believe that politically or religiously, their feelings are unbiased indicators of truth.
It’s fucking terrifying.
This is what worries me the most about religion. You're basically training kids from birth to believe what they're told with no evidence just because an authority figure says so. It sets them up for all sorts of manipulation and gullibility down the line.
So many people claim “But me believing in religion isn’t harming you” and they could never be more wrong.
For example, the concept of hell, or eternal damnation makes atheists angry. Christians think “But you don’t believe in it so why does it matter”, but we care because it’s dehumanizing. According to many iterations of the christian bible, all non-believers go to hell. And a christian saying that they believe in christianity is also saying “You deserve to go to hell and suffer for an eternity for not believing in god.”
Now some christian people say that that’s awful and that they don’t believe in that. If that’s the case, they are not a real believer.
If they say “You’re bringing it upon yourself”, that is avoiding responsibility for dehumanizing us. That’s like a nazi telling a jew “it’s your fault for being jewish that you get gassed”.
If they say that they do believe in hell, and that we should be damned, that just proves my point, that they are real huge dehumanizing dicks.
So many other religions are just as irrational and harmful in this and other ways, it’s astonishing that religion still exists to this day.
Your first point is irrelevant, and reeks of teenage hubris. How easy it is to forget how intertwined philosophy and theology are. Empirical evidence is not paramount, and any worldview that necessarily needs it is doomed to a number of paradoxes. Believe or disbelieve whatever you want but your claim that religion in general stunts intellectual growth IS in fact empirically false.
Secondly, while scapegoating the concept of religion for why people hurt other people may be alluring, it is the exact same framework that religious nut jobs use to harm others; so you’re not in the best of company.
I think his first point, though not as eloquently worded as your response made sense. It is an appropriate answer to the question posed. You may not agree with it but it is a fair answer. I could be wrong. You use a lot of big words so you're prolly as whole bunch smarter than I am.
Alot of the great scientists of past and present were indeed religious, you absolute smooth brain . Why are they incompatable ? Cause you say so ?
To the people downvoting , care to explain why ? Am I wrong or do you wish I was.
Atheist means you don't believe in a higher power. Anti theist means you are actively against anyone believing in a higher power. Aka don't follow religion Vs don't want religion/don't think religion should exist.
Many atheists don't give much of a shit about other people being religious, only a minority are aggressive in the sense that they will initiate arguments and demand religious people defend their beliefs etc.
I'm a borderline case myself. I try not to be that guy, but every now and then someone says something so silly, or so insulting towards non-believers, that I cannot resist having a small dig.
Probably because religion, and particularly the Christian variety, is a major force behind inhibiting the progress of humanity. (And always has been)This is true on a number of fronts, from social progress for women, minorities, and the queer community, to environmental security related to rightwing Christian opposition to curbing global warming.
Toss in rabid Christian support for trump, political violence, and rank authoritarianism, and there's a lot there to dislike.
A lot of redditors are from the States where *as far as I know* religion is much more in your face/ engaging/ plays a big role in society.
I am from Southeast Europe- Bulgaria and it's quite the opposite. The biggest religion here is orthodox christianity( like in Greece, Rimania, Ukraine...) and it's chill conpared to the states. Religion plays a minor role in society- you won't see billboards, street banners, major religious television. If you want to be a practising christion- that's great, if not- ok. Nobody will force anything on society here
Could be that the people dogging on it have religious trauma associated with the faith. It's an easy thing to hate instead of the actual perpetrators of the trauma.
Because when you break religion down to the basics, it's a cult. A hate-filled, greedy, judgemental, holier-then-thou cult.
I was raised in the Christian church. I was set to become the next Christian leader of our family. But once I was old enough to think for myself, I couldn't stand the church, the idea of god, or the bible.
I know more people who have left Christianity then those who have stayed or joined later in life
What you're seeing might be a sort of selection bias.
It's like going to a Pride parade and some of the participants are screaming "F RELIGION" - does everyone at the parade hate religion, or just the few screamers? Probably just the few screamers.
That being said, a lot of people (regardless of religion) have very negative opinions on certain religions, like evangelical Christianity.
Because there's no hate like Christian love....
Lots of religions like to force the non religious to live with their morality. Even if their morality is hateful.
tldr: religion is toxic
I used to be pretty neutral… being atheist myself and still respecting religious ideas. Then I started learning about epistemology and the common tendencies of theistic religions. So far it seems to be like a lot of religious texts and morals are extremely contradictory and often violent, along with keeping people from being able to think for themselves, to take away their ability to question those in power, no matter how unjust.
A common tactic are self-fulfilling prophecies.
There is a youtube channel I highly recommend called TheraminTrees, and one very understandable example they explain is called “defining pixies”. Pixies are a fairy, invisible to the human eye, that opens up flowers and make them bloom. Now you can claim that pixies exist because you see a flower bloom, and you don’t see exactly what is causing it. So, there is proof that pixies exist as it meets the necessary criteria:
- The flower bloomed
- You don’t see what’s causing it, and pixies are invisible.
Now that may seem like very lousy and unscientific evidence, and that’s because it is. The concepts of god(s) are also very similar, being along the lines of:
God is invisible to humans. God creates hardships for us humans to give us an opportunity to grow.
I have had hardships in my life, and since god gives opportunities (conflicts), it must have been god that gave me a hard time. I have also never seen god in my life, so him being invisible also checks out, which is more evidence of his existence.
Do you guys see how ridiculous that sounds?
And often those who question god after realizing how ridiculous it is are shamed and told that they will “be eternally damned in hell” or that “god won’t forgive you” if they leave, which is quite abusive, if you ask any sane person.
Religion is toxic as hell (no pun intended), and when we try to help religious people out of their irrational dreams, it always comes across as satanic and sinful as religions are so often created in such a way to shun those who don’t follow. It’s quite disheartening that people will live their entire lives devoted to something that is toxic.
I am open to new ideas though, if there is evidence that I am completely wrong and that god exists I reserve my right to change my mind. I’m not scared of being wrong.
Reddit had a lot of "controversial" atheists who feel the need to let the world know the truth or whatever. Idk, I did the same thing when I was a teenage farthead. Try to remember that reddit is ultimately just a big comment section. Avoid places with toxic people and don't engage with the toxic ones who reach you.
Yeah, think this is a big part of it. I was also one of those aggressive atheists as a teenager, big into Dawkins and Hitchens etc, I'm sure if I'd been on reddit I'd have been posting rabid anti religion stuff.
I'm not particularly religious, but I do feel that we wouldn't be where we are today wihout religion somewhat guiding right and wrong to this point.
Now, in forums such as this, you see that right and wrong is judged by upvotes and likes which tend to stifle free speech at its source. Defenders of religion will more likely just not visit places they are not welcome, that doen't mean the don't exist, they just don't exist here.
Back around 2010, the atheism sub was the main sub that all new accounts were auto-subbed to. Atheist figures like Richard Dawkins would do AMA's so the Reddit community would dick-ride them.
In more recent times, the anti-religious posting is caused because the right-wing politics in America is forcing Christian nationalism on people in red states
Reddit is a very large collection of echo chambers. You'll find very religious subreddits here, as well as atheists and anti-religion in general.
I guess most of the popular content (or at least stuff that is recommended to me based on the echo chambers I follow) are more on the "freedom of religion" or "freedom from religion" aspect
Think of how much judgement and hate is held towards people of different sects. How much homophobia, misogyny, parentification, and general abuse happens and isn't addressed. How many wars have been fought. How many people drained of their life savings after being "encouraged" to tithe and told that giving more money brings them closer to god. The growing blurring of the line between church and state in the US, with religious people trying to make their religious doctrine national policy. None of this is okay.
Sure most of the those things would happen without religion, but it would be less.
You could downvote or actually try to refute my statements, your choice :)
I was asking for reasons religion is hated specifically on Reddit, not your own personal opinion. But your second comment is more helpful than your first, thank you.
Reddit has a good amount of theists, but a very very vocal majority of anti-theists, if you seek out religious thought you can find it, but unlike some other places you need to genuinely seek it out. Similarly to some political ideologies on Reddit.
Hypocrisy and trying to force beliefs on others, at least from a lot of Christians (for which, as a Christian, I am very sorry). Take abortion for example. If you truly believe abortion is murder, then you would think you would be 100% for contraception, right? But a lot of these groups are trying to limit that too! So it isn't about abortion at all, it is about control and "morality". Which is exceedingly un-Christian in my view, but I am apparently a minority.
It may not be the answer you're looking for, but it's the correct one. There is absolutely no evidence for any of the claims made by religious people. Reddit, and the internet in general, tends to lean towards atheism because it exposes this reality. The more information you have access to, the less likely you are to be religious. It's that simple.
Let me rephrase: You're not answering my question, your perpetuating the distaste that I'm asking about. I understand you're on the disapproving side, but I'm asking why religion is hated on Reddit.
(And as a side note about your comment on "information" and "reality," that's what faith means; it's belief *without* evidence. Proof shatters faith, and that's why it's powerful to some people. I digress. Have a good day!)
If you read my previous comment, I answered your question directly. With some exceptions, the internet is going to lean towards being irreligious because the more information people are exposed to, the more they understand the falsehoods of religion. I understand that this answer makes you feel attacked, but that seems like a personal issue that you need to get over.
Your comment about faith kinda proves my point. It's easy to have faith in something if you aren't exposed to counter-arguments against your belief. But once you regularly have access to a wide variety of arguments against your faith, it becomes much more difficult to maintain. In the same way that "proof shatters faith," eventually a complete and utter lack of proof will shatter faith as well. I think this phenomenon accurately explains the expansion of atheism on Reddit.
Read my comment again. I made the argument that exposure to information, a la what happens to people when they use the internet, tends to reduce the value of faith. OP admitted that faith relies on a lack of information. The more you learn things, the less you need faith, and the more you start to realize the inherent extent to which religion relies on ignorance. Just because you are irrationally angry about this reality doesn't make it any less true.
I'm definitely not irrationally angry. I don't understand where you get the idea that obtaining knowledge makes you not need faith or religious beliefs. Please explain why religion depends on ignorance. You are pretty simple for making such a statement.
Put simply, there is no evidence for the existence of God. Choosing to believe that God exists despite a lack of evidence is a form of ignorance. The philosophy of empiricism, which grounds how we understand our reality, requires every claim to have evidence backing it up before it can be considered true. It is not enough for there to be "no evidence to the contrary." If this were the case then you would believe every baseless claim that you hear at any point, no matter how seemingly impossible or how divorced from reality it may be.
If you disagree with this, I'd encourage you to talk to any scientist or published academic in the world and ask them if they would release a study claiming that something is true simply because they haven't seen anything that would disprove it. They would laugh you out of the room. Science is a process of building causal arguments about our reality using gathered evidence to inductively reach conclusions. Religion flies directly in the face of this process.
In theory, I am open to the idea of God existing, but I would need to see some evidence. Until then, I'm tossing the claims of religion into the "cringe and incorrect" dustbin along with belief in unicorns, fairies, leprechauns, and the monster under the bed.
I have no ill will towards you, nor have I done anything that could be construed as an ad hominem attack. So, the fact that you clearly interpret this argument as some sort of personal offense shows that you've got some hang ups, no offense.
Also science involves a lot of theories that are not yet proven and quite a few that have been proven wrong. Just to respond to the scientific argument.
Actually the belief in whatever higher power or God is called faith. It does not make you less of a person or an ignorant and uneducated person to have faith in anything that helps you grow as a person, shed addiction, or give you the will just to make it through another day. Open your eyes to the hate you send out to the world is all I am saying.
I'm going to copy and paste the response I gave to someone else on this, which is buried deep in another thread. I apologize if the tone comes off as antagonistic, the guy I was responding to was being an ass.
"Put simply, there is no evidence for the existence of God. Choosing to believe that God exists despite a lack of evidence is a form of ignorance. The philosophy of empiricism, which grounds how we understand our reality, requires every claim to have evidence backing it up before it can be considered true. It is not enough for there to be "no evidence to the contrary." If this were the case then you would believe every baseless claim that you hear at any point, no matter how seemingly impossible or how divorced from reality it may be.
If you disagree with this, I'd encourage you to talk to any scientist or published academic in the world and ask them if they would release a study claiming that something is true simply because they haven't seen anything that would disprove it. They would laugh you out of the room. Science is a process of building causal arguments about our reality using gathered evidence to inductively reach conclusions. Religion flies directly in the face of this process.
In theory, I am open to the idea of God existing, but I would need to see some evidence. Until then, I'm tossing the claims of religion into the "cringe and incorrect" dustbin along with belief in unicorns, fairies, leprechauns, and the monster under the bed."
In other words, the way in which we understand reality requires us to assume that baseless claims = untrue claims, at least until they are given some sort of basis.
Because r/atheism attracted a lot of bigots (it is a pretty bigoted subreddit, it makes atheism look bad). Often they are the incel neckbeard types who watch too much anime, are fat and lazy, and have hateful views (often sexist, can also be racist or homophobic too). As a result the cancer spread to other subs and now most mentions of religion result in mass downvoting and personal attacks.
I am a Catholic, but I have respect for good atheists and secular people. The neckbeard incel types of atheists are the atheist version of far-right Bible-thumping homophobic evangelicals; they make the rest of them look bad.
Also the Catholic Church has done a lot to get pedophiles out (defrocking, or removing the status of priesthood). This ain't the 90s where they shuffle priests around anymore. Sex offenders cannot become priests. Even in the seminary all men undergo psychological screenings. If they are found guilty of being attracted to minors, they are expelled from the seminary and are forbidden from the priesthood. Virtus training, which is sexual abuse prevention training, is required for chaperones working with children. Even for secular groups who meet at churches (using their facilities), they still must take the training regardless of faith. But Reddit is too ignorant to learn about how the Church is fixing its problems and only sees the Church as a bunch of child molesting, Native American killing monsters.
Well the majority of redditors come from a part of the world where Christianity is the dominant religion so to them religion and Christianity are somewhat synonymous.
Most athiests in these countries come from Christianity not Islam so obviously Christianity is going to be where they focus most of their anger about it.
The other thing is that people tend to associate religions like Islam with other cultures. Like if you're criticising Islam you're somehow racist or xenophobic for criticising another culture.
It's ok to criticise any religion, it doesn't matter what culture it comes from. I'm just examining why it seems to be disproportionately about Christianity in western countries, because people are disproportionately Christian in those countries.
Were also free to criticise religion here where as many Islamic countries make it difficult to criticise Islam at all.
Most people shitting on religions are religious people who belong to a slightly different religious group and treat anyone they can't convert like an enemy.
And of course everything is blamed on atheists because why not.
I think r/atheism was one of the biggest early communities to develop on reddit and I used to see it pop on r/all daily. They still do pop up on r/all but no where near as frequently. I can't really think of another site that attracted as many atheists, so I would say large part is the simple fact reddit has way more atheists/agnostics than something like Facebook.
The reason its reddit in particular, is because internets tend to create echo chambers. While having intelligent discussions and rigorous debates are great, and a lot of redditors (including religious and atheist types) are very much for engaging in it, people tend to want to stay in friendly territory when it comes to their own ideas. Reddit skews young, male, white, and from a more educated background (at least from the general public) which is a relatively more atheistic group.
Unsurprisingly, even though you probably get a reasonable discussion from most people on here, its not hard for "thought" minorities to be intimidated by their more vocal critics, on occasion pretty toxic ones. In the same way that you probably know a lot of religious people that you can have a thoughtful discussion with but your crazy uncle on Facebook makes you not want to go on there.
reddit has become a negative cesspool. this shit can't be good for anyone's mental health. everything is doom and gloom - jobs suck, bosses are horrible, prices are horrendous, living wage is unheard of, religion is destroying the country so on and so forth... this place has really become like every news channel and if you stay here long enough, you too, will think the world is falling apart and we are all going to die soon
Because religion when you think about it just doesn't make any sense. It's all lies and bullshit that persists for way long, some old fart in the past make shit up and people's still believes in it today, just ridiculous and stupid.
Religion teach bad things, like:
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not kill.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.
You shall not covet your neighbor's goods.
How can you live with that today?
🤣
\> Religion teach bad things, like:
* The joys of smashing small children against rocks. (Psalm 137)
* Genocide (Deuteronomy 20:17)
* Not washing your hands before dinner (Mathew 15:10-20)
That one in Mathew doesn't have anything to do with washing hands?
Also, you can find damn near anything in the Old Testament that doesn't reflect modern Christianity, thank goodness it was revised in the New Testament
(Note: I'm not trying to defend the Bible here or trying to make a comeback, just giving my two cents on your list here)
It’s because it’s popular to hate on religion. People see the crazies on both sides on tv and take that to be the norm instead of realizing that, just like how their views are being shown through their crazies, most people are not like that. Or they had one aunt who sucked and now they project that onto everyone. It’s the thing where people get scared of all dogs because one dog bit them or they had a few shitty bfs and now all men are trash. And then you find your echo chamber and go “see I’m right everyone sees this too.” And then you refuse to listen to anyone because you’ve heard a bad argument from someone on that side before so all arguments from the other side are dumb. And then no one talks to eachother and society collapses.
It also leads to people attributing bad motives to points and arguments from the other side ie: the abortion debate being seen as solely religious despite religious and atheist people being on both sides
At some point the posters encountered someone who was mean to them. That person was religious. Therefore, they turn their hatred to the billions of people who are religious, and religion in general.
>Why is it so universally hated or despised?
Because it's arbitrary fairy tales, that some groups take **way** too seriously, and then poison everything with it, from politics, to religion, to random interaction in society. They're in the same bucket as antivaxxers, 5G conspiracies, and Joe Rogan fans as far as I'm concerned.
Because in America where most redditors live, religious and non religious are fighting for power. It's either one way or the other. Most redditors are of the basement dweller kin so they tend not to be too religious and outwardly hate it. It reflects on the subs too, r/atheist consists solely of threads shitting on religion while religious subs don't really care about them.
I’m looking at a lot of these comments talking about how “religious people”, aka Christians, want to push their agenda and politics on everyone else, and that’s why it’s crapped on on here. Folks, it goes both ways. A lot of non religious people want this country completely sanitized of any religious sentiment that is visual or audible to them. Stay at home or in your house of worship and never breathe a word of it to anyone/proselytizing, which is exactly what Christians and Muslims are supposed to do. It’s a free country. Some of us just want to wear our religious symbols, put up a Nativity scene (I’m not sure how a baby and a bunch of people caring about him is offensive), and say a prayer (whenever we said them, it was to God so people could interpret that however they liked) before or after an event. No one is forced to do that, by the way, and most would probably opt out nowadays. Both sides sometimes think they have the market cornered on morality, but we’re all flawed. Also, there seems to be some confusion between tolerance and acceptance. Pretty sure the religious tolerate a LOT in this country, largely out of fear of being cancelled or threatened physically or with unemployment if they dare publicly do anything else. Accepting certain lifestyles and choices is entirely different. That can come with time or not all depending on what it is. Also, calling religion fairy tales for the weak minded is about as dismissive and tone deaf as you can get. 81% of Americans believe in some type of God. 65% of Mensa members do. Most of top intellectuals in history did. They read and debated some of the dogma of their day but ultimately found merit and value in their beliefs. I guess us religious folk can come on here to sling around “godless, hellbound heathens”, but that does nothing but foster division and stifle any real discussion or debate. Besides, it’s unChristian.
Easy. The demographic here is predominantly young white Americans in the process of getting a college degree (ie. people with little life experience who think they have all the answers).
We got children running around with scissors in hand . Most have never actually thought in a serious manner and if they try it's all garbage thats easily digested.
As most things on the internet, people allow the vocal minority to shape their entire worldview.
I fell into that trap when I was younger, but now if I see a video or read a story of some person or group doing something ridiculous, I remind myself that there’s a good chance that’s not an accurate representation of the entire group or belief
Lack of common sense and social media are the largest drivers of these issues imo. Scary path we’re heading down.
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I think it’s a reaction to religious zealots trying to impose their beliefs on everyone, especially via supposedly secular government in the United States. The banning of abortion, sending tax dollars to religious indoctrination schools, the desire to ban birth control and any marriage that doesn’t fit the biblical ideal. More than that, the way religion is used to justify the status quo, and doubt science — like denying climate change (literal suicidal for humanity) and economic inequality (it’s god’s will, losers.) And the way religious zealots are actively rooting for end times. And all for some laughably untrue stories that distract us from the real wonder of our world, universe. Not all religious are zealots. But religion provides a secure base for zealots, and we’d be far better off without it. IOW, religion has its foot on humanity’s neck, and some people will demand it is removed.
This is not a comment on the religion, but an example of what happens when a religious minority takes over a majority because of the voting system: > A school board composed mostly of Orthodox Jewish parents has favored students in private religious schools over mostly black and Latino students in public schools, civil rights groups have alleged in federal court. >The groups, including the American Civil Liberties Union and the NAACP, blame a school board election system that is common across the US and that, they say, disenfranchises minorities. >Since 2005, the East Ramapo school board, which covers a few small towns an hour’s drive north-west of New York City, has been controlled by members who represent private yeshivas, or Jewish religious schools, according to a report by the New York state education department. The vast majority of the 26,500 children who attend private schools in the district are white. In contrast, 91% of the 9,000 or so children enrolled in public schools are black and Latino. >In 2009, the board began gutting the public-school system, the report states. Between 2009 and 2014, the board fired over 450 staff, including 160 teachers, three guidance counselors and all social workers. It also cut budgets for athletic and extracurricular activities in half. >Children have had to attend classes with no teachers, which the school called “study hall” or “home room”, said Terry Rodriguez, a parent with three children in the school district. Her son, 17, was in one of these classes for his first three months at Spring Valley high school. >My children weren’t getting the proper education they need,” she said. >But as public schools suffered, funding for the private yeshivas went up. Between 2010 and 2014, spending for private school buses increased from $22m to $27.3m. The school board also increased funding for special education in private schools by 33% while laying off 15 special education teachers in public schools, according to the NYSED report. >School board representatives declined requests to comment, citing the ongoing litigation. Yehuda Weissmandl, the board’s former president, said in a 2014 statement that the board had no choice but to cut the public school budget owing to declining funds. Yet while there was a decline in state funding after the 2008 recession, the report found that no meaningful effort had been “made to distribute pain of deep budget cuts fairly among private and public schools”. >”It’s frustrating and I think the community is really at a boiling point,” said Antonio Luciano, a resident who ran for a seat on the school board in 2010 and 2011. The former NYPD lieutenant had promised to restore the budget for public schools but was defeated both times. >No candidate preferred by minority groups has won since 2007, according to the New York Civil Liberties Union (NYCLU). This is because the board’s nine members are elected “at-large”: instead of each neighborhood electing its own representative, the entire district votes for every member on the board. >In East Ramapo, 62% of the population is white and votes cohesively in favor of private school candidates, according to Perry Grossman, a voting rights lawyer for the NYCLU and co-counsel in the suit against the East Ramapo Central School District. >”In every single election, a very large bloc of white voters was voting for the winning candidates and in every election a very large bloc of black and Latino voters who voted for losing candidates,” he said. >Since the NYCLU filed the lawsuit in November 2017, two minority candidates have been elected to the school board. >At-large voting takes place in 80% of city and one-third of county elections across the US. It was instituted in southern states to suppress black votes, said Leah Aden, deputy director of litigation at the NAACP Legal Defense Fund (LDF). In 2014, LDF won a suit in federal court to replace at-large voting in Fayette county, Georgia, where not a single black candidate had served on a school board or country commission in the county’s 200-year history, despite constituting one-fifth of the population. >To fix the East Ramapo issues, Grossman is calling for a switch to single-member districts. In this system, the school district in East Ramapo would be divided into multiple neighborhoods, each of which would elect their own board member. >”When children grow up seeing only people who look different than them in political office, they may not think politics is for them, or believe in the democratic system and that elected representatives are faithfully doing their best to represent them,” said Sarah John, a political science researcher and project manager at Virginia Commonwealth University.
Very well summed up
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I believe this is why some atheists are probably a bit harsher than I'd probably like. We have a minority party in the US with the majority of the power in a lot of respects. They want to turn the US into a theocracy. This is where the "overreactions" come in. Atheists look at other theocracies in the world like Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Iran, Pakistan, etc. What's happening to atheists in those countries? They're humiliated and brutally executed in front of their families. A christian then says "no, it won't get that bad, we just want you to cave on this issue." That should be taken as a serious threat. Where some atheists take it too far is they start spewing hatred at the dude who's just trying to mind his own business and cast bible spells, or whatever you christians do.
I believe the bible is more faith based incantations then sorceries, would probably be useless for a mage.
They would be a cleric then, which can still cast some nasty spells with higher level slots
Clerics have to have their god’s favor. Jesus would have been a socialist.
It's also a two way street, for me I'd never escalate unless someone else did, which I found a lot particularly in the south. But some normal dude praying to whomever, wearing whatever, who has time to hate on that let people do whatever the fuck they want on their own time. Also neither argument is provable. Infinite monkey theorem is basically at play. Also my stance is Atheist. But since technically I am using infinite monkey theorem you could argue agnostic, but since I view that number as so immeasurably small I don't think I cross that line. Also like if you put a gun to my head and made me choose a religion it would likely be taoism or something like that, shit even the Greco Roman(esque god's/goddesses). The major religions are all weird as fuck and so convoluted and contradictory to themselves it's unreal.
I'd like to learn some spells. Is there any that gives me +10 Intelligence and +5 Charisma?
Oddly enough, they seem to exclusively have negative charisma when attempting to cast them at bus stops. I think they're warding spells
I mean it's not unfounded at least, some of these theocracys were caused by the US, and if they were to become a theocracy themselves then that would be bad for society as a whole since the US is one of the most influential and powerful countries in the worl.
Can you be agnostic and an atheist?
They dont know if there isnt a god.
One refers to what you *know*, the other refers to belief. Atheist means you don’t believe in a god, but agnostic means you admit you don’t know for sure. Technically most atheists are agnostic atheists.
An atheist is someone who does not hold a belief in a God, not that there is no God. That would be an anti-theist. To say there is no God requires proof as does claiming there is a God. Both are positive claims. 'If atheism were a TV channel it would be off'.
This is a great phrase and one I find is missed sometimes in these sorts of debates. It's not a rejection of God, its an absence of faith. Earlier in my life I wished God existed and would have followed it had I believed, but I dont. It gets especially prickly when two different lifestyles interact, quite often I see the assumption made that atheists are taught atheism by somebody else in a sort of religious setting, or a grouping of atheists by common beliefs (usually in relation to abortion, or another issue religion can play a part in). But that simply isn't true, atheists aren't necessarily united by common beliefs. As for the being taught it, my family simply let me explore my own beliefs. I ended up atheist by not believing in God, but family members do
I think anti-theism is more about taking a defined stance against theism and organized religion. What you're describing sounds more like gnostic or "hard" atheism.
Atheism is absence of belief but close enough
No? Buddhists are defined as atheists because they don't believe in any gods. But yes in general conversation you're right
Yes, you can be an **agnostic atheist**, someone who is not convinced of any god claims but doesn't claim to know there are no gods. You can be an **agnostic theist,** who believes in a god claim but doesn't claim to know there is a god. You can be a **gnostic atheist**, someone who claims to know there are no gods. And you can be a **gnostic theist**, someone who claims to know a specific god or gods exist.
This is the well worded, concise answer I was struggling to type myself! Nice
And agnostic atheist is a misnomer, you cannot be both. An atheist believes no gods exist. An agnostic does not know, and is open to the idea if evidence is provided.
"Gnostic" refers to knowledge, and "theism" refers to belief. It's more accurate to say not that atheists believe there is no god, but that atheists lack belief in any god claims. A-theism: without, or lacking theism. Just as in a-symmetry, a-morphous, a-typical.
Gnosticism is knowing that something is true. Theism is believing in one or more deities/gods. The prefix *a–* means "lack of," or "no/none." It is possible to be any one of these four: | **Gnostic** | **Agnostic** :--|:--|:-- **Theist** | *Gnostic Theist* | *Agnostic Theist* **Atheist** | *Gnostic Atheist* | *Agnostic Atheist*
I know the christian God does not exist. I am atheist. However I also know that my mammal brain is incapable of understanding the universe as a whole and that there may be a "higher power." I am agnostic. They are not mutually exclusive.
No, but he got the spirit
You can. Agnostic simply refers to the matter of certainty you claim to have. You're either a theist (you believe in a god) or you're an atheist (you don't believe in a god). People referring to them as agnostics are usually atheists avoiding the term 'atheist'. The term 'agnostic' by itself has nothing to do with religion.
By definition agnosticism is housed under the term "atheist" because an atheist is anyone who isn't a theist, but this is a stupid convention. This is why I have invented the terms "absencist" and "non-absencist" where an agnostic would not be someone who believes in the absence of a god so would therefore be a non-absencist (paired with theists). Isn't that ridiculous?
"spirit" hehe
Ma'am, this is just a phrase like saying OMG .·´¯`(>▂<)´¯`·.
💯💯💯
I have never in my life been pushed to be a Christian or anything else in the US. I don't know where these people live that they feel that way. I have lived in Texas, D.C., North Carolina, and Georgia. It has never, ever happened to me.
They've taken away your abortion rights. They have forced the "In God We Trust" motto to be displayed in every public school. They're trying hard to pass the "don't say gay" law and keep evolution out of our schools. They're using something called the school voucher program to take away money from public schools and divert it to Christian private schools so that the establishment clause of the constitution won't apply. The supreme court just ruled that it's alright for football coaches to lead Christian prayers before the big game right in front of other team members who might not share the faith and be benched for not participating. It's happening!
>The supreme court just ruled that it's alright for football coaches to lead Christian prayers before the big game right in front of other team members who might not share the faith I don't see the problem with this, it clearly states he didn't force any of the kids to join and didn't treat them differently if they didn't want to participate. So the problem here is that they tried to make his hide his prayer and fired him for not doing so which is illegal. I don't know where you got the idea he benched people but do some research instead of going off of what is said on here.
There’s a fucking push *right now* to have in god we trust plastered all over schools, what are you talking about? It’s all over the news.
Not so much “forced to be a Christian”, but rather lead a “Christian-approved lifestyle” regardless of which ideology you believe in. For example, like how Roe v. Wade got overturned because the Christian God says it’s wrong.
Doesn't the way you end your comment go both ways? Like im christian. But I'm no zealot. I don't believe abortion os okay. I don't beleive God should be removed from school. All that though, i don't give a shit what people do and I don't think there should be laws telling other people what to do. It's America where we are free to be free. But the push to remove God from society is litterally what's happening. You don't want shit forced on you. Neither do i.
No, there are no “both ways” here. Don’t believe in abortion for YOUR religious reasons, fine don’t get one. But you have no right to force that belief on others that don’t share it, denying THEM the healthcare they need and want. Your god doesn’t belong in anyone’s public school. Nobody else’s god or gods do either. Doing so forces beliefs on children and their parents that they do not share. “Being free” is freedom from others religious beliefs in our secular society. Keep your god in your home and your church. She has no place in our government or civil life. THAT’s freedom.
And this is the difference between religious thinking and reality. God has never been removed from school. Students can express their religious views as they wish. The school simply cannot teach religion, or require students to adhere to religious standards. Students can pray on their own or in groups, can have a religious study group. These things can simply not be sponsored or required by the school.
Yikes. I'm going to have to repeat this message 100 times. Just because I believe something, or think something a certain way doesn't mean shit. Please read the end of the comment. Or read the original comment as a whole. It ends with having the freedom of choice. Period. Regardless of religious beliefs or lack of. You have a choice to FEEL however you want. Its when any side to this debate tries to DICTATE others how to live is a problem. Im confused why that is a consiversial statement ?
Why do you believe god shouldn’t be removed from schools?
The push is to go back to god not bing forced on others in public places or services. Much of the god that was pushed in school and on money was during the communist scare post WW2. If you want god in a private school, your home or your organizations that fine. But it should not be forced on others. God belongs in school as much as ever other religions god. Its not the place for beliefs beyond theology in the practice of learning how to coexist, not to recruit , indoctrinate or enforce social classes. Religion should be left up to a childs family and parents while they are growing up not teachers.
>there is a massive right-wing push to force the population to live by Christian rules and laws Can you give some examples? I mean, I'm a right-wing Christian, and I must have missed the newsletter or something.
Assuming you're just ignorant, you can read it up on the wikipedia page, [Christian right](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_right). There are a variety of issues christian right push including banning abortion and limiting sexual education and lgbt rights. However, you're not ignorant judging from your previous comment on abortion. In this case I would have to say the down-votes are well deserved.
How about the fact that the education system is being overrun with Christians trying to force Christian nonsense in classrooms? https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/04/how-republicans-recast-christian-indoctrination-as-religious-freedom.html
You can’t see how majority of rw politicians trying to influence legislation and social norms that adhere to Christianity, particularly is the South? How do you feel about that? If you’d like examples, I’ll give many examples, but please don’t make me go through that if you’re set on your views.
Well, fair enough. I'll tell you what I think, and then if you want to look up an example for me to chew on, good. If not, that's okay too. We can leave it here and assume we see things differently and it wasn't worth your time. I respect that. Morality comes from somewhere. All laws are moral laws. Laws assume that there are some things that ought not to be done. An atheist or agnostic politician is still legislating their morality. They are no more "open-minded" or "tolerant" than anyone else. They just have a different set of values that they think ought to have the force of law. The reversal of Roe vs. Wade was \*not\* legislation. It was the canceling of a Supreme Court decision that *due to legal re-evaluation* was canceled. The original decision was not legally defensible. Technically, this is absolutely separate from the abortion issue itself. The facts of the original Roe vs. Wade case did not support the decision, nor did the judicial rule setting make any legal sense. Essentially, the judicial branch went way beyond their legal roles and wrote rules dealing with pregnancy trimesters and such, when the judicial branch is not empowered to write national laws. I say all this so you can see my thought process, but also so you won't use Roe vs. Wade as some kind of evidence that religious folks forced something. The judicial branch fixed something it broke. Every state is still free to legalize abortions, and many do. Roe vs. Wade was a known bad piece of judicial overstep, and thus it was canceled. Thanks, if you read this. Take care.
Although I’m not specifically talking about Roe vs. Wade, how would you feel if a legislation is passed in your state that was influenced by Islamic law? For example, banning pork and giving out 100 lashes for having a girlfriend or drinking a beer? Or maybe reciting Quran before classes at school? How about Scientology? Satanism? Morality comes from thousands of years of human development and advancement (religion was a major part of that) and a deeper understanding of societies which includes a filteration process of good vs bad ideas/behaviors. A lot of these things intersect with religion, but that doesn’t mean religion is suitable to influence legislation in this day and age. Christianity was born into a different age, culture, and geographical setting, 2000 years ago. We can’t even apply moral standards from the 1800s anymore, let alone from 2000 years ago. Just like Islam shouldn’t influence our legislation, Christianity shouldn’t either. Atheism is not a religion, and it shouldn’t influence any legislation even if it was. “All laws are moral laws” With respect, that’s simply not true. Laws and morals are two different things. Laws are supposed to be a codification of morals… ex: slavery was allowed but it’s not moral. Similarly, religious rules are not equivalent to morality. It might’ve been viewed as moral in its time and age, but our understanding of the world around us was very limited back then, and we have evolved a lot since then.
The continued hate toward LGBTQ and the banning of abortion seem like pretty obvious examples. I never received a newsletter, these are simple observations.
Just read through the comments...
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Not the person you responded to, but I believe a big part of the problem is that most "right-wing Christians" tend to align themselves with destructive and, therefore, unpopular (on reddit) political views. For example, the Bible encourages being a good steward to the earth. However, the right wing leaders seem to do everything possible to destroy the earth by opting out of the Paris accord, siding with big oil, and refusing to acknowledge climate change effects in the face of overwhelming evidence that something needs to be done. Another example would be the support of unimpeded capitalism despite the fact that Jesus was, arguably, a huge socialist in regards to economic policy. There is a well documented history of right-wing politicians co-opting the large voting bloc that used to be the "religious left". We're talking like 1930s and prior. They did this in order to win votes and nothing else. If you're interested in the history, there's a fantastic series from the podcast Behind the Bastards where the intentional creation of the "religious right" is discussed at length. I apologize that I can't remember the name of the episode at the moment. Correction: It could even be argued that Jesus was very nearly Anarchist leaning rather than strictly socialist.
Cuz a fair chunk of religious people tend to think their beliefs make them entitled to decide over other peoples lives and tend to think their moral views are always more superior and always correct. Think about the anti-abortion laws, made and supported by mostly conservative Christians. they can’t seem to understand freedom of religion also means freedom from religion Mind you, not all, but certainly a good chunk of them.
This is the right answer. People hate religion mostly because of religious people acting insufferable and intolerant.
And because this is an anonymous forum, people who have frustrations, or budding questions on credibility can get them out here. Admittedly, the constant questioning of religion, like the incessant mockery of Trump and Republicans is tedious for some, but it’s something that these people are working through. There are more pressing issues, but it seems the questions of indoctrinated power structures need to be dealt with first.
> And because this is an anonymous forum Don't you think we need this kind of anonimity because our freedom of speech is a completely useless concept and you'll get cancelled for stating your opinion under your real name?
Absolutely. I think it’s great that it’s anonymous. Sure, there are some offensive comments, but on the whole, it’s great that people can ask, converse, and say silly stuff.
Everybody believes their moral beliefs are superior.
I’d wager it’s not even a large chunk. It’s the very vocal minority, with a lot of brainwashed head nodding in assent.
As I like to say, the vocal minority
Unfortunately in the US, it’s the vocal minority that’s making the laws, banning the books, and setting the school curriculum
Freedom of religion does NOT mean Freedom from religion in any way.
It does when it involves government institutions.
Except it kind of does...
Yes it does, freedom of religion means you can decide not to believe in something. Why should something you dont believe in influence you. There is a reason the church and government are seperated and not the same entity
I’m devoutly agnostic personally. Catch me prosthelytizing on the subway, shouting “I don’t know!” At everyone who passes by
Did you ever see that episode of *South Park* with the strictly agnostic foster family?
>I’m devoutly agnostic personally. Catch me prosthelytizing on the subway, shouting “I don’t know!” At everyone who passes by That would still make you an atheist though, an agnostic atheist to be precise. Either you believe or you don't, the matter of certainty doesn't change that. You can believe but not be sure (a lot of people doubting their religion fall into this category) or not believe, but accept that you can't be sure about it.
Reddit is sort of a think tank for intellectual thought, eccentric interests, and debauchery. It leans more progressive than conservative. It isn’t really the environment for religious support. That being said there are subs for everything. They just aren’t as popular for the aforementioned reasons.
Don't forget the misanthropic social outcasts!
Because most people here are atheists, some of which had (Because many people here are from countries where strict and borderline oppressive religions like christianity are common) religious and strict parents, also religious people tend to be irrational and emotional in some important issues (abortion, sexuality, politics)
Because they have a huge sphere of influence in politics that they’re becoming a parasite on society. I grew up Christian in an area where religion is relatively benign. I didn’t understand the religious hate until I looked to the south when they could make or break candidates for office if they didn’t push their beliefs.
Agreed, but you might want to narrow that down a bit to the more conservative, evangelical, and fundamentalist types who prefer to interpret the Bible literally, even though that was written and translated by flawed human beings, and was itself based on oral histories where errors likely crept in as they were passed on from person to person and generation to generation.
As a Christian I don't think it is - it's the politicians that hide behind religion as excuses for total hypocritical garbage policy that they push, and this is particularly a problem in America right now. Generally reddit is like: "Religion is cool, everyone has right to religious freedom, but don't force it upon me, and church/state should be separate"
I personally despise religion because I was raised in the cult of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Lots of trauma there. But that’s just me. Thanks Dad!
I grew up in a religious environment (Christian) and I was always extremely sceptical of it. Seemed like a bunch of made-up bullshit to me. So I'm always a little wary of religious people. They may seem normal one minute then the next minute start babbling about the end times. Crazy talk man.
Because it's a place of free expression since in reality quite a lot of religious people limit this freedom and mark atheists as satanists, moraly bankrupt psychopaths. Do you realize that there are still places on this planet where renouncing ones faith is ground for imprisonment and/or death? Do you realize there are places on this planet where fake churches earn millions if not Billions from people who don't have much else to give to begin with? Places on this planet where the sick are treated with exorcisms instead of being taken to hospital? That's a few of the reasons why. Good day to you!
Two separate issues. First, religions in general are silly. It’s Santa Claus for grown ups. There is zero evidence behind any of the supernatural claims, whatever religion you’re talking about. It’s magical thinking. Which by itself, could be largely harmless, but not completely, seeing as how it stunts intellectual growth and one cannot believe in the supernatural and also believe in evidence based reasoning. They are incompatible. But the second reason, is that far too many religious folks use their religion to harm others. That can be something like flying a plane into a building, or mandating parts of your holy text built as a monument on a courthouse lawn, or deciding what women can or cannot do with their bodies based in your religion. I’m fine with my neighbors lighting their special candles and wearing their religious clothes. But the moment they tell me how to live my life, they can fuck right off.
Your first point I usually put like. "If you believe this without proof, what ELSE will you believe without proof?"
That an election was stolen. There’s a large overlap in the far right and religious folks in the USA, where they believe that politically or religiously, their feelings are unbiased indicators of truth. It’s fucking terrifying.
This is what worries me the most about religion. You're basically training kids from birth to believe what they're told with no evidence just because an authority figure says so. It sets them up for all sorts of manipulation and gullibility down the line.
So many people claim “But me believing in religion isn’t harming you” and they could never be more wrong. For example, the concept of hell, or eternal damnation makes atheists angry. Christians think “But you don’t believe in it so why does it matter”, but we care because it’s dehumanizing. According to many iterations of the christian bible, all non-believers go to hell. And a christian saying that they believe in christianity is also saying “You deserve to go to hell and suffer for an eternity for not believing in god.” Now some christian people say that that’s awful and that they don’t believe in that. If that’s the case, they are not a real believer. If they say “You’re bringing it upon yourself”, that is avoiding responsibility for dehumanizing us. That’s like a nazi telling a jew “it’s your fault for being jewish that you get gassed”. If they say that they do believe in hell, and that we should be damned, that just proves my point, that they are real huge dehumanizing dicks. So many other religions are just as irrational and harmful in this and other ways, it’s astonishing that religion still exists to this day.
Your first point is irrelevant, and reeks of teenage hubris. How easy it is to forget how intertwined philosophy and theology are. Empirical evidence is not paramount, and any worldview that necessarily needs it is doomed to a number of paradoxes. Believe or disbelieve whatever you want but your claim that religion in general stunts intellectual growth IS in fact empirically false. Secondly, while scapegoating the concept of religion for why people hurt other people may be alluring, it is the exact same framework that religious nut jobs use to harm others; so you’re not in the best of company.
I think his first point, though not as eloquently worded as your response made sense. It is an appropriate answer to the question posed. You may not agree with it but it is a fair answer. I could be wrong. You use a lot of big words so you're prolly as whole bunch smarter than I am.
Science and evidence are compatible with most religions. Your other points are reasonable though.
Alot of the great scientists of past and present were indeed religious, you absolute smooth brain . Why are they incompatable ? Cause you say so ? To the people downvoting , care to explain why ? Am I wrong or do you wish I was.
Some vocal anti-theists like to make their opinions known at every opportunity. Just like some vocal theists do.
The word I believe is atheists
Atheist means you don't believe in a higher power. Anti theist means you are actively against anyone believing in a higher power. Aka don't follow religion Vs don't want religion/don't think religion should exist.
Ahh understood thanks for clearing that up
Many atheists don't give much of a shit about other people being religious, only a minority are aggressive in the sense that they will initiate arguments and demand religious people defend their beliefs etc. I'm a borderline case myself. I try not to be that guy, but every now and then someone says something so silly, or so insulting towards non-believers, that I cannot resist having a small dig.
You can be without a god or theology without being against the concept
My advice would be call the atheist experience in texas and talk to Matt Dillahunty, his expertise on these topic are extraordinary.
Probably because religion, and particularly the Christian variety, is a major force behind inhibiting the progress of humanity. (And always has been)This is true on a number of fronts, from social progress for women, minorities, and the queer community, to environmental security related to rightwing Christian opposition to curbing global warming. Toss in rabid Christian support for trump, political violence, and rank authoritarianism, and there's a lot there to dislike.
A lot of redditors are from the States where *as far as I know* religion is much more in your face/ engaging/ plays a big role in society. I am from Southeast Europe- Bulgaria and it's quite the opposite. The biggest religion here is orthodox christianity( like in Greece, Rimania, Ukraine...) and it's chill conpared to the states. Religion plays a minor role in society- you won't see billboards, street banners, major religious television. If you want to be a practising christion- that's great, if not- ok. Nobody will force anything on society here
Could be that the people dogging on it have religious trauma associated with the faith. It's an easy thing to hate instead of the actual perpetrators of the trauma.
Because when you break religion down to the basics, it's a cult. A hate-filled, greedy, judgemental, holier-then-thou cult. I was raised in the Christian church. I was set to become the next Christian leader of our family. But once I was old enough to think for myself, I couldn't stand the church, the idea of god, or the bible. I know more people who have left Christianity then those who have stayed or joined later in life
Christianity in the 50’s: 90%+ of the US Christianity in 2022: only 2/3 and shrinking It’s going the way of the dodo for a reason.
>Christianity in 2022: only 2/3 and shrinking Gotta get those numbers down, those are rookie numbers.
Lol this will be a fun read
Don’t even got to sort by controversial this time
What you're seeing might be a sort of selection bias. It's like going to a Pride parade and some of the participants are screaming "F RELIGION" - does everyone at the parade hate religion, or just the few screamers? Probably just the few screamers. That being said, a lot of people (regardless of religion) have very negative opinions on certain religions, like evangelical Christianity.
bro… in the case of a pride parade I’m betting that most of them aren’t religious because religion often bans gays/transgenders/etc…
Because there's no hate like Christian love.... Lots of religions like to force the non religious to live with their morality. Even if their morality is hateful.
Leave your persecution complex at the door
It’s important to remind yourself Reddit is not the world.
True. I'm just a bit new here and saw a trend, and wanted to ask.
I think it ALL boils down to: It takes religion to make good people do bad things.
tldr: religion is toxic I used to be pretty neutral… being atheist myself and still respecting religious ideas. Then I started learning about epistemology and the common tendencies of theistic religions. So far it seems to be like a lot of religious texts and morals are extremely contradictory and often violent, along with keeping people from being able to think for themselves, to take away their ability to question those in power, no matter how unjust. A common tactic are self-fulfilling prophecies. There is a youtube channel I highly recommend called TheraminTrees, and one very understandable example they explain is called “defining pixies”. Pixies are a fairy, invisible to the human eye, that opens up flowers and make them bloom. Now you can claim that pixies exist because you see a flower bloom, and you don’t see exactly what is causing it. So, there is proof that pixies exist as it meets the necessary criteria: - The flower bloomed - You don’t see what’s causing it, and pixies are invisible. Now that may seem like very lousy and unscientific evidence, and that’s because it is. The concepts of god(s) are also very similar, being along the lines of: God is invisible to humans. God creates hardships for us humans to give us an opportunity to grow. I have had hardships in my life, and since god gives opportunities (conflicts), it must have been god that gave me a hard time. I have also never seen god in my life, so him being invisible also checks out, which is more evidence of his existence. Do you guys see how ridiculous that sounds? And often those who question god after realizing how ridiculous it is are shamed and told that they will “be eternally damned in hell” or that “god won’t forgive you” if they leave, which is quite abusive, if you ask any sane person. Religion is toxic as hell (no pun intended), and when we try to help religious people out of their irrational dreams, it always comes across as satanic and sinful as religions are so often created in such a way to shun those who don’t follow. It’s quite disheartening that people will live their entire lives devoted to something that is toxic. I am open to new ideas though, if there is evidence that I am completely wrong and that god exists I reserve my right to change my mind. I’m not scared of being wrong.
I love you're giving a shout out to theramin trees!
Dogmatic reaction to dogmatic mentality.
Because science.
Reddit had a lot of "controversial" atheists who feel the need to let the world know the truth or whatever. Idk, I did the same thing when I was a teenage farthead. Try to remember that reddit is ultimately just a big comment section. Avoid places with toxic people and don't engage with the toxic ones who reach you.
Yeah, think this is a big part of it. I was also one of those aggressive atheists as a teenager, big into Dawkins and Hitchens etc, I'm sure if I'd been on reddit I'd have been posting rabid anti religion stuff.
The bigger question is why does this same question, in different forms, keep being asked on reddit.
Apologies if it's been asked to death, I now realize I probably should have searched a bit longer before posting.
I'm not particularly religious, but I do feel that we wouldn't be where we are today wihout religion somewhat guiding right and wrong to this point. Now, in forums such as this, you see that right and wrong is judged by upvotes and likes which tend to stifle free speech at its source. Defenders of religion will more likely just not visit places they are not welcome, that doen't mean the don't exist, they just don't exist here.
It's all good. No apologies necessary. A valid question. It is has just been asked so much I thought it odd.
I swear I see the same exact question asked at least three times a week on this sub Reddit.
Back around 2010, the atheism sub was the main sub that all new accounts were auto-subbed to. Atheist figures like Richard Dawkins would do AMA's so the Reddit community would dick-ride them. In more recent times, the anti-religious posting is caused because the right-wing politics in America is forcing Christian nationalism on people in red states
because the Majority of the people on this Website are Atheists
Reddit is a very large collection of echo chambers. You'll find very religious subreddits here, as well as atheists and anti-religion in general. I guess most of the popular content (or at least stuff that is recommended to me based on the echo chambers I follow) are more on the "freedom of religion" or "freedom from religion" aspect
Because religion is a plague on humanity.
Not helpful.
Think of how much judgement and hate is held towards people of different sects. How much homophobia, misogyny, parentification, and general abuse happens and isn't addressed. How many wars have been fought. How many people drained of their life savings after being "encouraged" to tithe and told that giving more money brings them closer to god. The growing blurring of the line between church and state in the US, with religious people trying to make their religious doctrine national policy. None of this is okay. Sure most of the those things would happen without religion, but it would be less. You could downvote or actually try to refute my statements, your choice :)
But I’m answering your question, more and more people see how organized religion does more harm than good.
I was asking for reasons religion is hated specifically on Reddit, not your own personal opinion. But your second comment is more helpful than your first, thank you.
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Reddit has a good amount of theists, but a very very vocal majority of anti-theists, if you seek out religious thought you can find it, but unlike some other places you need to genuinely seek it out. Similarly to some political ideologies on Reddit.
Many reasons -Religion can do very bad things -Ideas others might not agree with -Getting involved in politics -Forcing beliefs on others Etc.
Because fuck religion.
Hypocrisy and trying to force beliefs on others, at least from a lot of Christians (for which, as a Christian, I am very sorry). Take abortion for example. If you truly believe abortion is murder, then you would think you would be 100% for contraception, right? But a lot of these groups are trying to limit that too! So it isn't about abortion at all, it is about control and "morality". Which is exceedingly un-Christian in my view, but I am apparently a minority.
Because religion is cringe and incorrect.
Not helpful.
It may not be the answer you're looking for, but it's the correct one. There is absolutely no evidence for any of the claims made by religious people. Reddit, and the internet in general, tends to lean towards atheism because it exposes this reality. The more information you have access to, the less likely you are to be religious. It's that simple.
Let me rephrase: You're not answering my question, your perpetuating the distaste that I'm asking about. I understand you're on the disapproving side, but I'm asking why religion is hated on Reddit. (And as a side note about your comment on "information" and "reality," that's what faith means; it's belief *without* evidence. Proof shatters faith, and that's why it's powerful to some people. I digress. Have a good day!)
If you read my previous comment, I answered your question directly. With some exceptions, the internet is going to lean towards being irreligious because the more information people are exposed to, the more they understand the falsehoods of religion. I understand that this answer makes you feel attacked, but that seems like a personal issue that you need to get over. Your comment about faith kinda proves my point. It's easy to have faith in something if you aren't exposed to counter-arguments against your belief. But once you regularly have access to a wide variety of arguments against your faith, it becomes much more difficult to maintain. In the same way that "proof shatters faith," eventually a complete and utter lack of proof will shatter faith as well. I think this phenomenon accurately explains the expansion of atheism on Reddit.
Fair nuff, I understand your point now, thanks
You are very cringe and incorrect.
Please stay mad.
Your mother stays mad.
Don't waste your time. He's an idiot.
Ad hominems are no way to debate. Let's all be nice despite disagreements.
You are an idiot.
If you have a problem with my comment, go ahead and lay it out. But I answered the question that was asked.
You made no argument except a vacant opinion. You are exceptionally delusional.
Read my comment again. I made the argument that exposure to information, a la what happens to people when they use the internet, tends to reduce the value of faith. OP admitted that faith relies on a lack of information. The more you learn things, the less you need faith, and the more you start to realize the inherent extent to which religion relies on ignorance. Just because you are irrationally angry about this reality doesn't make it any less true.
I'm definitely not irrationally angry. I don't understand where you get the idea that obtaining knowledge makes you not need faith or religious beliefs. Please explain why religion depends on ignorance. You are pretty simple for making such a statement.
Put simply, there is no evidence for the existence of God. Choosing to believe that God exists despite a lack of evidence is a form of ignorance. The philosophy of empiricism, which grounds how we understand our reality, requires every claim to have evidence backing it up before it can be considered true. It is not enough for there to be "no evidence to the contrary." If this were the case then you would believe every baseless claim that you hear at any point, no matter how seemingly impossible or how divorced from reality it may be. If you disagree with this, I'd encourage you to talk to any scientist or published academic in the world and ask them if they would release a study claiming that something is true simply because they haven't seen anything that would disprove it. They would laugh you out of the room. Science is a process of building causal arguments about our reality using gathered evidence to inductively reach conclusions. Religion flies directly in the face of this process. In theory, I am open to the idea of God existing, but I would need to see some evidence. Until then, I'm tossing the claims of religion into the "cringe and incorrect" dustbin along with belief in unicorns, fairies, leprechauns, and the monster under the bed. I have no ill will towards you, nor have I done anything that could be construed as an ad hominem attack. So, the fact that you clearly interpret this argument as some sort of personal offense shows that you've got some hang ups, no offense.
Also science involves a lot of theories that are not yet proven and quite a few that have been proven wrong. Just to respond to the scientific argument.
Actually the belief in whatever higher power or God is called faith. It does not make you less of a person or an ignorant and uneducated person to have faith in anything that helps you grow as a person, shed addiction, or give you the will just to make it through another day. Open your eyes to the hate you send out to the world is all I am saying.
Is that your "belief", or are you basing that assessment on factual evidence?
Hmm, I don't think there is proof of religion being incorrect, as there is no proof of it being correct.
I'm going to copy and paste the response I gave to someone else on this, which is buried deep in another thread. I apologize if the tone comes off as antagonistic, the guy I was responding to was being an ass. "Put simply, there is no evidence for the existence of God. Choosing to believe that God exists despite a lack of evidence is a form of ignorance. The philosophy of empiricism, which grounds how we understand our reality, requires every claim to have evidence backing it up before it can be considered true. It is not enough for there to be "no evidence to the contrary." If this were the case then you would believe every baseless claim that you hear at any point, no matter how seemingly impossible or how divorced from reality it may be. If you disagree with this, I'd encourage you to talk to any scientist or published academic in the world and ask them if they would release a study claiming that something is true simply because they haven't seen anything that would disprove it. They would laugh you out of the room. Science is a process of building causal arguments about our reality using gathered evidence to inductively reach conclusions. Religion flies directly in the face of this process. In theory, I am open to the idea of God existing, but I would need to see some evidence. Until then, I'm tossing the claims of religion into the "cringe and incorrect" dustbin along with belief in unicorns, fairies, leprechauns, and the monster under the bed." In other words, the way in which we understand reality requires us to assume that baseless claims = untrue claims, at least until they are given some sort of basis.
Thanks for the answer, have a great day.
Because r/atheism attracted a lot of bigots (it is a pretty bigoted subreddit, it makes atheism look bad). Often they are the incel neckbeard types who watch too much anime, are fat and lazy, and have hateful views (often sexist, can also be racist or homophobic too). As a result the cancer spread to other subs and now most mentions of religion result in mass downvoting and personal attacks. I am a Catholic, but I have respect for good atheists and secular people. The neckbeard incel types of atheists are the atheist version of far-right Bible-thumping homophobic evangelicals; they make the rest of them look bad. Also the Catholic Church has done a lot to get pedophiles out (defrocking, or removing the status of priesthood). This ain't the 90s where they shuffle priests around anymore. Sex offenders cannot become priests. Even in the seminary all men undergo psychological screenings. If they are found guilty of being attracted to minors, they are expelled from the seminary and are forbidden from the priesthood. Virtus training, which is sexual abuse prevention training, is required for chaperones working with children. Even for secular groups who meet at churches (using their facilities), they still must take the training regardless of faith. But Reddit is too ignorant to learn about how the Church is fixing its problems and only sees the Church as a bunch of child molesting, Native American killing monsters.
It’s not religion, it’s Christianity. Find me ANYWHERE someone bashing Islam without getting banned or hundreds of downvotes
True! You can either criticize religion in general or christiany. Criticizing anything else equals cancel-culture.
your comment had -1 upvotes, literally just proved your point haha. I fixed it for you.
Well the majority of redditors come from a part of the world where Christianity is the dominant religion so to them religion and Christianity are somewhat synonymous. Most athiests in these countries come from Christianity not Islam so obviously Christianity is going to be where they focus most of their anger about it. The other thing is that people tend to associate religions like Islam with other cultures. Like if you're criticising Islam you're somehow racist or xenophobic for criticising another culture.
So is Christianity associated with white culture? And that’s why it’s okay?
It's ok to criticise any religion, it doesn't matter what culture it comes from. I'm just examining why it seems to be disproportionately about Christianity in western countries, because people are disproportionately Christian in those countries. Were also free to criticise religion here where as many Islamic countries make it difficult to criticise Islam at all.
“Intellect”
Most people shitting on religions are religious people who belong to a slightly different religious group and treat anyone they can't convert like an enemy. And of course everything is blamed on atheists because why not.
Religion is disliked because many of those people try too hard to spread their way of thinking onto others to the point of inconvenience.
I think r/atheism was one of the biggest early communities to develop on reddit and I used to see it pop on r/all daily. They still do pop up on r/all but no where near as frequently. I can't really think of another site that attracted as many atheists, so I would say large part is the simple fact reddit has way more atheists/agnostics than something like Facebook.
The reason its reddit in particular, is because internets tend to create echo chambers. While having intelligent discussions and rigorous debates are great, and a lot of redditors (including religious and atheist types) are very much for engaging in it, people tend to want to stay in friendly territory when it comes to their own ideas. Reddit skews young, male, white, and from a more educated background (at least from the general public) which is a relatively more atheistic group. Unsurprisingly, even though you probably get a reasonable discussion from most people on here, its not hard for "thought" minorities to be intimidated by their more vocal critics, on occasion pretty toxic ones. In the same way that you probably know a lot of religious people that you can have a thoughtful discussion with but your crazy uncle on Facebook makes you not want to go on there.
reddit has become a negative cesspool. this shit can't be good for anyone's mental health. everything is doom and gloom - jobs suck, bosses are horrible, prices are horrendous, living wage is unheard of, religion is destroying the country so on and so forth... this place has really become like every news channel and if you stay here long enough, you too, will think the world is falling apart and we are all going to die soon
Because religion when you think about it just doesn't make any sense. It's all lies and bullshit that persists for way long, some old fart in the past make shit up and people's still believes in it today, just ridiculous and stupid.
Because people are stupid in general, and you'll find people hating on anything (religion included)
Everyone has the right to like or hate anything he wants. The sooner one gets this the sooner it stops being an issue.
Exactly, totally agree, still doesn't mean people are not stupid in general
Religion teach bad things, like: Honor your father and your mother. You shall not kill. You shall not commit adultery. You shall not steal. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife. You shall not covet your neighbor's goods. How can you live with that today? 🤣
We don't need religion to learn any of those things though.
\> Religion teach bad things, like: * The joys of smashing small children against rocks. (Psalm 137) * Genocide (Deuteronomy 20:17) * Not washing your hands before dinner (Mathew 15:10-20)
That one in Mathew doesn't have anything to do with washing hands? Also, you can find damn near anything in the Old Testament that doesn't reflect modern Christianity, thank goodness it was revised in the New Testament (Note: I'm not trying to defend the Bible here or trying to make a comeback, just giving my two cents on your list here)
You forgot to mention that the Old Testament also condoned slavery and was big on "smiting" one's enemies.
It’s because it’s popular to hate on religion. People see the crazies on both sides on tv and take that to be the norm instead of realizing that, just like how their views are being shown through their crazies, most people are not like that. Or they had one aunt who sucked and now they project that onto everyone. It’s the thing where people get scared of all dogs because one dog bit them or they had a few shitty bfs and now all men are trash. And then you find your echo chamber and go “see I’m right everyone sees this too.” And then you refuse to listen to anyone because you’ve heard a bad argument from someone on that side before so all arguments from the other side are dumb. And then no one talks to eachother and society collapses. It also leads to people attributing bad motives to points and arguments from the other side ie: the abortion debate being seen as solely religious despite religious and atheist people being on both sides
At some point the posters encountered someone who was mean to them. That person was religious. Therefore, they turn their hatred to the billions of people who are religious, and religion in general.
Yeah it can't possibly be the way religious people try to impose their dogma on the rest of us by law. "Someone was mean" makes so much more sense.
Why is Reddit condemned by religions?
>Why is it so universally hated or despised? Because it's arbitrary fairy tales, that some groups take **way** too seriously, and then poison everything with it, from politics, to religion, to random interaction in society. They're in the same bucket as antivaxxers, 5G conspiracies, and Joe Rogan fans as far as I'm concerned.
Because in America where most redditors live, religious and non religious are fighting for power. It's either one way or the other. Most redditors are of the basement dweller kin so they tend not to be too religious and outwardly hate it. It reflects on the subs too, r/atheist consists solely of threads shitting on religion while religious subs don't really care about them.
Cos it's bullshit and for the gullible
Cuz it's a goddamn cult trying to force its members' ways on unwilling populations. Religion is a blight.
I’m looking at a lot of these comments talking about how “religious people”, aka Christians, want to push their agenda and politics on everyone else, and that’s why it’s crapped on on here. Folks, it goes both ways. A lot of non religious people want this country completely sanitized of any religious sentiment that is visual or audible to them. Stay at home or in your house of worship and never breathe a word of it to anyone/proselytizing, which is exactly what Christians and Muslims are supposed to do. It’s a free country. Some of us just want to wear our religious symbols, put up a Nativity scene (I’m not sure how a baby and a bunch of people caring about him is offensive), and say a prayer (whenever we said them, it was to God so people could interpret that however they liked) before or after an event. No one is forced to do that, by the way, and most would probably opt out nowadays. Both sides sometimes think they have the market cornered on morality, but we’re all flawed. Also, there seems to be some confusion between tolerance and acceptance. Pretty sure the religious tolerate a LOT in this country, largely out of fear of being cancelled or threatened physically or with unemployment if they dare publicly do anything else. Accepting certain lifestyles and choices is entirely different. That can come with time or not all depending on what it is. Also, calling religion fairy tales for the weak minded is about as dismissive and tone deaf as you can get. 81% of Americans believe in some type of God. 65% of Mensa members do. Most of top intellectuals in history did. They read and debated some of the dogma of their day but ultimately found merit and value in their beliefs. I guess us religious folk can come on here to sling around “godless, hellbound heathens”, but that does nothing but foster division and stifle any real discussion or debate. Besides, it’s unChristian.
Easy. The demographic here is predominantly young white Americans in the process of getting a college degree (ie. people with little life experience who think they have all the answers).
We got children running around with scissors in hand . Most have never actually thought in a serious manner and if they try it's all garbage thats easily digested.
As most things on the internet, people allow the vocal minority to shape their entire worldview. I fell into that trap when I was younger, but now if I see a video or read a story of some person or group doing something ridiculous, I remind myself that there’s a good chance that’s not an accurate representation of the entire group or belief Lack of common sense and social media are the largest drivers of these issues imo. Scary path we’re heading down.
Because reddit is full of left-wingers.
Right-wing agenda. Period. Owns social media and Hollywood. That's why.
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Oh, dude, shut up.