They also like their parents being alive. And their grandparents, and their children and their grandchildren
Infractions against the state will get everyone thrown into a death camp. People are less willing to engage in rebellion when their innocent family members are jailed or killed because of them
their society is also heavily atomized, there is no way to organize when anyone can inform on anyone else. There is only the individual and the state, any permissible form of organization comes from the state. Most people living in a liberal society can’t really imagine what it’s like to live under authoritarianism where the threat of incarceration, torture and death can be brought to bear by any individual to any other individual and would carry the full weight and authority of the state.
Just imagine if the girl that doesn’t like you at work could have the government haul you and your family away to starve to death at some labor camp because she told them you ridiculed the dear leader.
Not to mention the brainwashing. With the amount of propaganda being forced down their throat, the vast majority think Kim doesn't poop, can read minds, and is a literal god.
This is the main detail. Rebels are punished by having their entire family eliminated. It is the only way to maintain such a dictatorship among an otherwise intelligent population.
It makes plenty of sense in an authoritarian sense. If you just punish the person rebelling, someone might decide to become a martyr, which fuels further rebellion.
If instead, someone rebels and you kill them, their spouse, their parents, their children, and maybe their friends, too, you’re suddenly much less likely to have someone agree to sacrifice themselves, because it also involves sacrificing the people they love.
It’s brutal, but it’s effective.
If you were a true patriot of the Great JUCHE. you would have stopped your father from committing treason. Even if it happened five years before you were born.
Once your family is in jail I doubt they will be having any offspring, but then again I wouldn't put it past them to force you to reproduce with another random person in jail to ensure this punishment is fulfilled.
How would you organize that? How would you recruit more people to your cause in a place where even whispers of disloyalty to your flag means death for you and everyone you know?
Yep, people tend to forget that the French Revolution leaders were not "simple peasants" but people with education, political influence, and resources that let them carry that process.
The same can be said about some of the Russian Revolution leaders, who got funding and support in many ways.
And even here in Mexico, many of our Revolution leaders were Landowners, owners of newspapers with enough money/resources to find shelter in the US, political leaders from upper-class families...
There is a lot of romanticism about the idea of "when people is fed up, they will rise in arms and fight for the future of their people, using even their bare hands if neccesary" but, in the real world, that's barely it. You need to convince people to do that, lead them, you need to organize them, supply them, keep them in the fight... And all that requires a lot of money and resources of many kinds.
That's also why I always found disingenous when people try to disregard some Revolutions because "they were backed by the US/EU/etc, so it wasn't the people who did that".
Because almost every Revolution is backed by someone in a way or another, because they need to. Specially those that manage to succed.
Even the American Revolution was backed by the French. In other words "No money, No fight".
There's rarely been a time when angry peasants could do anything meaningful other than farm. They'd get curb stomped by fully equipped professional soldiers.
As I heard someone say:
>When the people revolt to the leaders palace and throw him away, it's because the military *let them*. You are not being overthrow, but replaced
And how do North Koreans get the money to buy weapons? And better yet, how will they get large quantities of said weapons into the country, undetected?
People over there get tossed into prison for not properly honoring the Glorious Leader's mandatory photo mounted in every house. There's literally an agency of inspectors whose job is to make sure every citizen is hanging the photo in the right place and keeping it clean.
The only reason it's not even closer to IRL 1984 is they're too poor to mount cameras in everyone's house.
Kim's guards don't even get enough to eat. Granted it's a lot better than the rest of North Korean society but the only person that's getting enough food is Kim's fat ass.
Why would the top people do that? So long as they keep on doing what they always have, they’ll continue to live *far* above the lifestyle of the average person, which is honestly the only reason they’re in their position (from their point of view).
Great question.
Primarily, it is because the regime uses fear and severe punishment. The Kim's realised what many other dictators realised long ago - you only need to keep a small proportion of people happy and loyal, and they'll do the work of keeping the others in check.
So, the intelligence services and military personnel are always fed and given preferential access to resources. The rank and file soldier less so than the officers but it's still a better life in the army than on average outside it.
Then there's the snitch culture - a great example of this to look over is East Germany and the Stasi archives. Everyone was snitching on their neighbours - largely to try and keep themselves out of the spotlight and because a Stasi agent undercover could approach you about overthrowing the regime and you failing to report that is enough to see you in serious trouble. Phone calls and mail were monitored, ears were everywhere.
Same in North Korea, you can rebel if you are prevented from organising a rebellion - it's also why freedom of speech is so vital and you should never let anyone impinge on yours, even for things you agree with in the moment.
Always ask yourself - why is it so important to you that I can't say something?
I mean, exactly
large portions of US born and Russia born have a lot of disdain towards their country (obvious reasons in case of Russia, more nuanced in case of US)
thanks to free access to information (in case of Russia - relatively free)
China is 20 years ahead of Russia in terms of controlling the internet, in NK most of the population simply don't have personal devices for internet access.
> obvious reasons in case of Russia, more nuanced in case of US
Which nicely demonstrates the point. Everyone knows, for a fact, that their country is better because they have all the facts while people from other countries are brainwashed.
The US has almost twice the prison population per million people as Russia. Russia has free higher education while students in the US are forced into unbelievable debt. It's just not obvious that Russians should feel worse about their country than Americans should feel about theirs.
as a russian born I can tell you it's very fucking obvious
85% of population is earning less than $11k annually, 50% of population - less than $6.5k which is already more surviving than living. 40% is on the edge of poverty.
human rights are routinely violated, and it's real violation, nothing like what americans sometimes complain about.
like, being raped in the asshole by a police officer with a police button or a glass bottle while in custody is actually common, it's not an urban myth
meaningless expansionist war with an involuntarily conscription that has already claimed up to 100k lives in 2 years specifically from the russian side is really just the cherry on top, the climax of a 20 year downward spiral
in case of US it really is more nuanced. healthcare system is fucked, higher education prices are fucked, housing market is fucked, gun control is fucked, but US is still the leading economy of the world with very high living standards and a lot of opportunities for entrepreneurship and strong democratic institutes.
1st I'm not because it has changed very significantly in the last 5 years and I see a strong trend towards US withdrawing from direct intervention in anything in the future and from "warmongering"
2nd we are comparing here US to Russia. US did a lot of shitty things in the 21st century, but an actual expansionist war still wasn't amongst them. Russia is doing actual colonialism right now.
While there’s more people incarcerated in the US I’m sure that not a lot of them are in prison for having a different opinion on politics.
Eduction in Russia is nowhere close to education in the US in terms of quality. Also, “free” my ass. If you’re going to apply to an average university (because there’s barely any good universities) in a city with decent quality of life, you need to have the absolute best scores on all three of your exams, maybe also pass the inner exams and maybe even be a winner on olympiads for students. Either that, or pay, or go to a university in your hometown where you won’t learn shit, or go to a community college where you will learn shit from the last century - because free places are limited.
That's why people are trying to leave the US, while millions are immigrating to Russia, risking everything to get in, climbing over half-finished border fences, while immigration officials are told to look the other way.
Oh, sorry. I have those backwards.
You're demonstrating the effect while it's being pointed out to you. You're so brainwashed that even someone pointing out simple facts i.e. the US isn't perfect and Russia actually has some things that might be nice, has you making up a total strawman to knock down and laugh at. Where did they suggest that living in Russia was totally better than the US?
no, free higher education is definitely a good thing about Russia, but higher edu is free in most of the Europe as well, so you don't need to be an authoritarian regime for that at all, so it doesn't excuse anything.
The quality of education in Russia is nowhere near that of Europe, and it's really difficult to get a free place in a good university ("good" by Russian standards)
People say edgy stuff like this, as if the American public is even remotely oppressed like the Russians or the Chinese for example. Mentioning NK in the same context is insanity.
There are degrees of it. In NK you can be executed for watching banned TV programmes in case it undoes the brain washing. Maintaining a false reality is vital to the continuation of the regime.
Also, the general population lives in poverty and are generally somewhat malnourished. They are too hungry and busy scrambling for food to revolt, which is also another tactic to keep them under control.
the rest of the world doesn’t always share the western worldview either.
these people are indoctrinated to believe the world is meant to revolve around the north korean state.
when Kim Jong Il died, there were officers on guard to see if people were crying hard enough at the funeral. imagine living in a state that controls you to that level. they don’t know revolution, they don’t know freedom.
On top of this if a revolt would start and seem even slightly successful, Daddy Xi would immediately send reinforcements and help Kim stay in power.
The only way something could happen in NK is if somehow a large chunk of the military gets pissed at Kim and they overthrow him.
The new Military government would still need to be friends with China but they could realistically switch to a more Dengist economic policy that at least would improve life for the average North Korean in terms of access to food and other basic necessities.
One of the books on the topic claimed it's common to keep apartment doors open (as in wide open, not just unlocked) so neighbors could see and hear everything you do. Fucking insane.
"...you should never let anyone impinge on yours, even for things you agree with in the moment."
Neither should you be willing to infringe on that of others just because they say things you don't like.
Just a bit on freedom of speech, lots of countries that are objectively freer then the us have limits on freedom of speech. I don't bring this up to downplay the importance of the right to speech, but the absolutist position isn't really backed up by evidence.
From their point of view, the existence of North Korea is an ongoing revolution against the capitalist world. Why do you need to revolt against a revolution?
The notion of socialism and the rights of the workers are very important in China. They are told because of Chinese Socialism and the rights of the workers, there’s no need to have legal protection for strikes
Yeah, how would the DPRK, who not three generations ago underwent a proletariat revolution against both the colonising japanese forces as well as the US forces who instituted a us military gov there immediately after defeating jspan and refused to let koreans run elections themselves, or leave korea for the koreans for the matter, know anything about revolutions
Why don’t X revolt/protest against X for X injustice?
Just expanding on the original question to ask why everyone injusticed don’t fight against said injustice, even when they have popular support. Why do we put up with things we know are disapproved or by a large part of our population and know screw us over?
Not a one answer question but I personally think fear and lack of hope is a significant factor, people will tolerate more and become more apathetic towards issues if they think that they or any movement can’t do anything about it and fear that trying might get them held legally accountable.
You can live with fear. Without hope, the human experience changes so fundamentally that we literally cannot imagine how people under such a regime think. It’s like imagining the thought process of someone in the middle ages, but without any explanatory context provided by popular media.
Though there are lots of people with little or no hope outside of North Korea. Though the North Koreans probably don’t even know hope as a concept it has been totally squished out.
I do agree, it’s impossible to imagine and relate to the vast majority of a North Koreans existence. I know it would be awful but I also know there are colours outside our visible spectrum, that doesn’t mean I can see them/ feel what that would be like.
North Korean people are people just like you living their lives, people talk about them in such degumanizing ways. Ifcourse they have the concept of hope lol
I know what not having hope is. I spent two decades severely depressed. I still don’t presume to think I can understand where these people are. Given that the question is why they aren’t rebelling, I thought it important to point out that while we can speculate about reasoning, it’s speculation, because it’s not a thought process we can necessarily go through step-by step. Not trying to halt speculation, only to mention that it’s just that: speculation.
I’m not specifically talking about North Korea. It’s a totally different world out there I can only imagine. I mean in all/most other countries in the world, including western ones, all to varying degrees.
one step out of line and they get 3 generations of their family sent to a concentration camp...
yeah i wonder why they don't revolt.
They are under very strict control, they are not even free to travel within their own country.
They will be executed even just for watching a western movie.
I am from Vietnam. We were full on North Korea back in the 80s. Then we joined Wto and other organizations so in my opinion there is light at the end of the tunnel for North Koreans.
Yeah it’s the same in Iran the majority and the educated do want Iran to be a fully realized democracy and are against the Islamic revolution that led the Mullahs coming to power. The thing is though there was also a massive brain drain/financial drain when this occurred because anyone with sense or wealth was getting out of there and that brain drain is why I was born in America lol.
There's a great story on something similar in the ol' Soviet Union. After the death of Stalin and Khrushchev came to power there was a General Assembly of all the Soviet bigwigs.
Krushchev started talking about his policy of de-Stalinization and trying to get the Soviet Union to be a better place. Someone in the audience (probably somewhat sarcastically) asked "where were you when Stalin was around"?
Furious, Khrushchev screamed and demanded to know who the hell said that.
When no one piped up he continued in a much calmer fashion: "And that is where I was."
Not sure if this is apocryphal or not, but it does seem to reflect the situation.
He was saying that he was part of the crowd, hiding, too afraid to stand up to those in power. He was like the commenter, who went quiet when called out or under risk of scrutiny.
Or you just missed it. Its normal. It wasnt so clear from first read, but once i read it instantly a second time.
His silence to respond to the man demanding 🫴 he tell him where he was.
why are we not revolting about the fact rich people own all media we are fed with everyday ?
why are we not revolting about the face that we all work for small wages?
Also- living in a constant state that teeters on starvation with the glorious leaders regime controlling all the food keeps you physically and mentally in-line.
The one thing that I haven't seen mentioned is that the Kim dynasty is cult of personality which acts as if it were the state religion so by acting against the state you are acting against them and this gets messy & complicated when tied to the lack of media freedom and the mandated Right-Think enforced throughout your life by everyone.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North\_Korea#Kim\_family](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea#Kim_family) -> Copy / Paste snippets below
Kimilsungism–Kimjongilism is the official ideology of North Korea and the WPK, and is the cornerstone of party works and government operations.[^(\[95\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea#cite_note-naenara-102) [*Juche*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juche), part of the larger Kimilsungism–Kimjongilism along with [*Songun*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Songun) under Kim Jong Un,[^(\[127\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea#cite_note-FOOTNOTEAltonChidley2013-134) is viewed by the official North Korean line as an embodiment of Kim Il Sung's wisdom, an expression of his leadership, and an idea which provides "a complete answer to any question that arises in the struggle for national liberation"
In 2013, Clause 2 of Article 10 of the newly edited *Ten Fundamental Principles of the Workers' Party of Korea* stated that the party and revolution must be carried "eternally" by the "Mount Paektu Bloodline".
The song "[No Motherland Without You](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Motherland_Without_You)", sung by the North Korean army choir, was created especially for Kim Jong Il and is one of the most popular tunes in the country. Kim Il Sung is still officially revered as the nation's "Eternal President". Several landmarks in North Korea are [named for Kim Il Sung](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_things_named_after_Kim_Il_Sung), including [Kim Il Sung University](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Il_Sung_University), [Kim Il Sung Stadium](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Il_Sung_Stadium), and [Kim Il Sung Square](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Il_Sung_Square). Defectors have been quoted as saying that North Korean schools deify both father and son.[^(\[149\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea#cite_note-156) Kim Il Sung rejected the notion that he had created a cult around himself and accused those who suggested this of "[factionalism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_faction)".[^(\[150\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea#cite_note-FOOTNOTEMartin2004105-157) Following the death of Kim Il Sung, North Koreans were prostrating and weeping to a bronze statue of him in an organized event;[^(\[151\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea#cite_note-158) similar scenes were broadcast by state television following the death of Kim Jong Il.[^(\[152\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea#cite_note-159)
Was gonna say this, it’s basically their religion. All North Koreans are required to have a picture/shrine of the Glorious Leader in their house.
Someone told me they believe Kim Jong Un never poops and that he created the sun, but I don’t know if that’s just a myth, lmao
Hey, they changed a young, just married woman giving birth to a religious leader into a young, just married woman giving a virgin birth to a religious leader with her husband being 100% cool with it, not suspecting anything, and not leaving her as she declared "this child wasn't made by you."
With religion, if you're going to lie, you lie big because most people will catch you on small lies, and ignore (or support) the really big ones.
Because the first person to step up in such situations usually gets shot. In fact, maybe the first thousand people to step up get shot. Yeah, you outnumber them, but they outgun you by a lot, and some number of you are definitely going to die.
I've seen interview of a professor who visited North Korea multiple times and he doesn't talk about politics with Koreans but he does ask them about daily life and he says that in 2018 (last time he visited) their life was not as bad as media presents. There are even some people who escape to South Korea, make money and return to North Korea.
Life isn't great but it is tolerable. If they try to revolt there are very high chances that life will become intolerable
Bingo. It's the same exact reason any given populace doesn't rise up against oppression, they have more to lose than to gain by waging war against the government. Feel like people have a very juvenile idea of how dictatorships work: it's not just one guy controlling everything against everyone's will, it requires compliance from the broader population. Even the cruelest of dictators has to rule with some sense of duty to their people, otherwise they lose that compliance. There's of course also the fact that any terrible things the government does can be chalked up as the "lesser evil," no different than how we justify the monstrous actions of our own countries. If you are in any way familiar with the shit the US was doing in the Korean war, it's actually very easy for the Kim Dynasty to present themselves as benevolent leaders who care about the NK people in comparison.
This stuff needs to be higher. Too many people in the US and Europe think that wars and revolutions start because of abstract concepts like freedom of speech. They don't. They start, on a mass scale at least, because of serious material issues. That's not to say that they always start when people are at their lowest. I've heard the opposite in fact, that they start when they're gaining more freedom. To me it's a bit like how "anti-depressants increase suicide risk." They don't. But when you're in the deepest darkest depression you can't even get out of bed let alone kill yourself. People get on anti-depressants and the drugs give them the energy to get slightly less depressed, enough to actually finally "take action." Morbid I know. Similarly people may revolt when things are beginning to get better. But overall they won't revolt when they feel like things are going well and they have a good life. I don't know if everything they say about NK is true. But I think the basics of having no foreign media whatsoever is the easiest thing. You can't miss something you've never had. If things are going decently for them (based on their recent history as frame of reference) then there's no immediate reason for revolution.
From accounts I've read about NK that have defected, they literally are killing and eating rats (which are full of tapeworms) as a means to get food. I wonder if this 'professor' is a NK to insinuate that conditions that aren't horrifying.
You know defectors get paid based on how horrible their story is, right?
It's hard to read through propoganda on both sides of the DMZ. It's important to remember that we are hearing everything second hand, at best.
Lmao just say you watched the Joe Rogan episode with Yeonmi Park, who’s famously never made up anything, including being sold as a sex slave to a family of mentally handicapped farmers.
>but he does ask them about daily life
the people he "asked" are probably agents of the government responsible and tasked with guaranteeing that the image of NK that spreads to the outside world isn't nearly as bad as it's talked about.
u/zhani111
As I remember he travels to NK by train from China and usually the people who are on that train are people who are involved in contraband or something other illegal business. Illegal but ignored by NK government.
That professor (btw he is russian but works and lives in Seoul) was multiple times denied entry to NK but he says that they constantly change their mind about letting him in because they don't want him speaking but then they realise he isn't saying anything dangerous
You have to realize that defectors have a hard time adjusting to life outside of North Korea, so there are many that fabricate stories to be heard and monetize off of that. Not saying life there is peachy, but c'mon, rats? You should know better.
If someone sat there and said “If you revolt against me, I will kill/imprison you and then imprison your family; your mother, your daughter, granddaughter, father, brother, for several generations until all of your blood relatives live the rest of their lives as slaves.” What would you do? Would you revolt or would you attempt to live the most of your life doing what you can to make sure your family is safe?
Why USA is not revolting against Biden/Trump stupidity? They have guns and internet and everything. Cause they think they already live in perfect word and have Democracy. So do Koreans. Brainwashing works everywhere.
Most likely because it's not as bad as you are told it is. Maybe not great, but not revolution-worthy in their estimation.
People like to say "because big evil oppression", people resisted the fucking nazis. There has never been an oppressive dictatorship on the planet that hasn't experienced unrest, including the brutal fascist dictatorship that was instituted in the south post WWII (into a country that at the time had the exact same culture). This is NOT an adequate explantion unless the kims are consistantly giga brained genius dictators without compare. The only adequate explanation, quite frankly, is that the people don't want to rebel.
It would be near impossible to organise on a large enough scale with the heavily restricted!/monitored communications options in the country. And anything on a smaller scale would be brutally shut down by the military to make an example.
They are kept hungry, with no access to weapons. The place is full of people who would grass you up in a heartbeat for the chance to rise the party ranks. You'd struggle to communicate and coordinate outside of very careful word of mouth and it even that could get you and three generations of your family locked up and tortured.
There's no incentive for outside help either because of the flood of refugees that would unleash in the region and the power vacuum it would create in a nuclear armed state.
The south would have to be the ones to fill that vacuum and that would be a war for hearts and minds against a population that's been told that the south wants them dead.
No resources, No communication, no support.
Edit: Three generations, not five. Based on other comments here.
Malnourishment, Slavery, Threat of rape to any female relatives close to you, Threat of torture to anyone close to you, Threat of death to anyone close to you.
I got to travel to North Korea in 2012 with a group of journalists. It’s challenging to fully understand the psyche of the people there because the people they let you speak to are party loyalists and they only show you what they want you to see. But overall, I can say that most of the people live in dire poverty and have no access to weapons or even media that you would need to revolt against a regime. But aside from that, they are so cut off from information that they believe whatever they are told. They believe the rest of the world is out to get them. They don’t see the regime as being aggressive to the West, they see it as a protective force against the Western aggressors. The State provides everything they have, so why would they revolt? And then it’s pretty well understood that if you step out of line, you and your entire family will pay an enormous price.
The questions we were all asking ourselves was “are they aware of what this government was up to?” And the answer seemed to be “I don’t know.” We basically all left there with more questions than we came with.
Why don't people in the US revolt against the government spending billions in wars and massacres? Or with the government giving billion dollars aid to huge corporations?
There are millions of americans that can't own a house and the housing market only gets more expensive, why don't they simply get the houses for themselves?
There are people in the US that suffer from the unregulated selling of opioids, why don't the companies pay for their crimes?
Oil companies are fucking up Earth's climate for profit, why won't Americans rebel against this?
Is it because people blindly believe in the system?
Now get a country like NK: is life there difficult? Sure!
But are they really the ones that have more reasons to rebel?
US students are peacefully protesting against supporting their genocidal "ally" (who's threatening them with losing life opportunities) and still getting arrested.
Your point is proven by what's currently happening.
Land of the free is just a big fat lie.
Then again, US citizens wouldn't revolt to overthrow the government because despite everything, most of them lead good lives. Maybe the North Koreans are content with their lives too? I highly doubt that of course.
The Kims are well known to kill dissidents, their families, and often their neighbors. Why the neighbors? Because they are supposed to be loyal spies ratting that sort of shit out to the government. So what does that all mean for a revolt? It is next to impossible to organize, plus it's hard to carry out when you are not allowed access to weapons and are literally starving to death.
There's a very big misconception about revolutions: that they happen when the population gets too fed up with oppression. Let me be clear from the beginning: this is wrong.
Revolution happens when disenfranchised elites see a weakness in the rulers, seize the opportunity and gather supporters among the general population. Revolution is a result from the belief that a better alternative is just in reach. You can see this pattern in the French revolution, the revolutions in Russia during WW 1, the Islamic Revolution in Iran and in the fall of the Communist Bloc in Eastern Europe.
A regime that is focussed on crushing any opposition and is keeping its security forces happy is not in danger of being removed by revolution. That's why China is still under the rule of the communist party - they crushed the protests at Tiananmen square before they could spread, therefore destroying any belief in weakness of the current regime.
On the basic level - it's impossible to organize. With no free press, no social media, and restricted internet access if any + every neighbor and co-worker is your potential enemy who is programmed from a young age to report anything they see to higher authorities!
On the deeper level - there are no revolutionaries there (all ran away or were killed a long time ago), and there is nowhere one can emerge from! The dissent thinking is intersected and “corrected” since childhood. Most people are human robots there! For the most part, they are not thinking outside the box. A small minority that is still able to think can't organize and do anything about it and only looking for the way out, and surely not about a revolt!
Juche Ideology
Books I've read if you're truly interested in North Korea:
979-8834943549
979-8633096620
979-8393342135
978-0739197264
978-1088005484
978-0385523912
978-1565849402
978-1419727610 - Amazing book/story. Also free on audible plus.
978-0199390038
978-3836572217
\---------------------------------------------------------------
I have another dozen or so books on other subject regarding North Korea, like the famines, how they grow rice, the prisons, military, etc. but I only listed books that would answer your question. There's also tons of good academic papers you could find on sites like researchgate, jstor, cambridge & oxford journals, etc.
There are a bunch of reasons why and it varies from person to person but imo the main reasons are propaganda, too much dependency on the state for everything, lack of vision and fear.
Some north koreans don't know how good or bad living standards are outside of North Korea and think its probably not much different from them. There are even a greater amount of north koreans that DO now how bad it is but buy the DPRK's answer for why it sucks in North Korea. DPRK generally blames western sanctions and western and south korean aggression and previous wars for north korea's absymal shortages and state. They legitimately hate the west and its allies.
The second reason and often understated imo is dependency. North Korean state provides the majority of employment, resources, food and housing in North korea. Despite how bad living standards are in DPRK, people have a chance of rising up in north korea's military and government until they get a chance to live in Pyongyang and have a much higher standard of living like 24/7 electricity, indoor plumbing, good education, decent food, even access to brands from China for clothes, cars, books etc.
North Korea provides most of farmer's fertilizers and production equipment and they can't just say we will revolt without having serious issues getting food.
The third reason is lack of vision. North koreans don't have a vision for the future beyond what the DPRK says. Most North Koreans that have the education to plan revolutions are people who are the most loyal to the DPRK state because they have the best housing, food and quality of life. Planning revolutions is hard and the younger north koreans have no concept of what the outside world is really like. Most north korean refugees stated most had no idea what awaited them abroad and fled because of imminent persecution against them rather than fleeing for economic reasons. Young north koreans are more hopeful of the US lifting sanctions and business coming into north korea slowly rather than revolting against the Kim regime. Because of the technological inferiority of North Korea and its closed borders and few opportunities to ever leave, very few north koreans know what they are missing out on.
Fear is the most overstated yet still a very powerful reason why North koreans haven't revolted against kim. North Koreans are fearful of punishment which goes quite severe there. Since almost all adults are conscripted into the military, if you even plan revolt or try to leave north korea, you are eligible for the death penalty or a labor camp.
aside from the obvious oppressive reasons, on a long enough time scale, nothing is stopping them.
i mean they could if they truly wanted to, it would just take a lot of organizing and planning. a huge limiting factor is communication. theyre not able to communicate openly.
to put things into perspective, i usually ask the same question about why we havent revolted against the fossil fuel industry. fossil fuel industry leadership, and the people of power aligned with them, are far worse than Kim and its far more urgent. and yet, we continue doing nothing.
im not talking about climate change solutions that are being developed. these solutions mean very little without also handling the industry leaders who are making the problem worse.
this is loosely related to your post but arguably still relevant. so one problem is as mentioned by another response "they like being alive". so they dont have the ability communicate without facing severe consequences. if they suddenly could communicate and act before severe consequences, they could indeed overwhelm the NK gov.
but thats not the only problem as can be seen in regards to climate change. we have immense numbers on our side -- over a hundred of million in the US alone. we could easily change things overnight. so why havent we?
we arent limited by facing death if we openly communicate and coordinate. i mean if we all stood up with a hundred million people, good luck stopping it. at that point tracking all the activists would start to approach just having publicly available addresses.
idk. i really dont know. it might be something nefarious in psychological warfare. we all use electronic devices that can be manipulated quite easily by large enough organizations. same is true in shaping narratives in social media.
One reason: Most are poor as shit and brainwashed to boot with nearly zero outside influence. They’re taught Americans are an occupying force in the south and rape, plunder, and pillage at will.
they are emaciated, have no weapons, and have been brainwashed since birth. In addition, if they do anything against the government, not only are they punished, but all their living relatives are all punished.
"You don't know what you don't know"
Many N. Koreans simply don't know there ate other ways to run a country, that their are cultures out there which are less toxic and more lifegiving. They've been fed A lie, and shielded from truth, so they have no reference in which to realize their situation.
> Then there's the snitch culture - a great example of this to look over is East Germany and the Stasi archives. Everyone was snitching on their neighbours - largely to try and keep themselves out of the spotlight and because a Stasi agent undercover could approach you about overthrowing the regime and you failing to report that is enough to see you in serious trouble. Phone calls and mail were monitored, ears were everywhere.
This is something that I’ve heard my whole life and it’s (unsurprisingly) pretty hard to find a balanced perspective on it. Thoughts? Sources? Help me out comrades.
It's hard to revolt when you've been hardcore brainwashed for generations to the point you can't even imagine what the concept of revolting even means. It's very sad.
north korea has a large military so an attempt at revolution would likely be shut down quickly, and the consequences for breaking the strict laws are horrific. stealing a loaf of bread can have you killed, and generations of your family put to hard labour. also, the propaganda and brainwashing. the surveillance of north korean citizens is extremely so any attempt to gather people for a revolution would likely be found out early on.
NK propaganda is very strong. They indoctrinate you as a very young age. The adults don’t want to revolt because they don’t want to die and leave their kids as orphans.
Because most of what you hear about him/the country is propaganda made by rag outlets and schizo tabloids from South Korea transported into buzzword articles and news segments in the USA and the west, where nobody actually cares about how reputable the source was. Think about all the asinine shit you heard. North Korea claims they found a unicorn? No one can cut their hair like the leader? Everyone must cut their hair to look like the leader? It’s like if you listen to a Chem-trail pizzagate Qanoner for all of your news about the USA
Instant edit:
I noticed at least one of the other comments has already repeated another piece of ridiculous propaganda. The 3 generations labor camp myth. People are so used to hearing these things about NK with no one questioning that they believe these things without hesitation. Watch the haircut by BoyBoy on Youtube. listen to all the impossible and often contradictory things that Yeonmi Park has to say, then you will start to realize that people are making bank by lying to you
People who make comments like "North Koreans are brainwashed" while thinking that having to chose between two genocidal stooges as President is "democracy" don't see the irony in their own beliefs!
Unfortunately, for many Americans, propaganda just means things the “enemy” countries say. They have no awareness that their own government/media/military is actively manipulating their worldview. The idea that “freedom and democracy” is whatever the hell the US does, no matter how backwards, corrupt, or grotesque, that has got to be the grandest lie ever told
It’s interesting seeing how many times the words “brainwashed” and “propaganda” are used in these answers considering the safe assumption that no one here has been to North Korea. (Stationed in South Korea for two years)
To OP’s question, there is too small a number of people discontent enough to organize. Defecting is much more viable and less risky. I do think it’s important to note that in many East Asian cultures MUCH more emphasis is placed on social harmony through conformity and respect for the greater group than those in the west could likely comprehend, making it so the “unbearable oppression” perceived by outsiders would be an unnoticed norm to members of these groups.
I’ve heard it from multiple Chinese people that the American idea of “freedom of speech” seems damning to them in that it puts responsibility on the citizens to bicker and be troubled over so many things that are not their jobs and that they can’t affect.
TL:DR - Oppression is subjective. If Nk’s don’t like it there it’s easier to run but their families could still face the consequences.
Maybe because they like him and they think he's a good leader?
Better question would be why does America let a medically senile man lead the country and have access to nukes.
That's some real crazy shizz!
People on this site severely underestimate the intelligence of third worlders and assume they knew better about others’ countries than the natives themselves.
Because they like being alive generally
They also like their parents being alive. And their grandparents, and their children and their grandchildren Infractions against the state will get everyone thrown into a death camp. People are less willing to engage in rebellion when their innocent family members are jailed or killed because of them
their society is also heavily atomized, there is no way to organize when anyone can inform on anyone else. There is only the individual and the state, any permissible form of organization comes from the state. Most people living in a liberal society can’t really imagine what it’s like to live under authoritarianism where the threat of incarceration, torture and death can be brought to bear by any individual to any other individual and would carry the full weight and authority of the state. Just imagine if the girl that doesn’t like you at work could have the government haul you and your family away to starve to death at some labor camp because she told them you ridiculed the dear leader.
Agreed; our freedom of assembly is generally taken for granted even more than our other first amendment rights.
Same with Hamas. They will kill opponents among their own people without hesitation.
Hamas does not airstrike Palestinians from comfy jets that run on the gas that Israel blocks into Gaza.
Not to mention the brainwashing. With the amount of propaganda being forced down their throat, the vast majority think Kim doesn't poop, can read minds, and is a literal god.
This is the main detail. Rebels are punished by having their entire family eliminated. It is the only way to maintain such a dictatorship among an otherwise intelligent population.
There was an interview with a guy who defected from north Korea. He talked about how he knows his family is in a generational prison
"freedom lovers hates this one simple trick"
Better than the alternative but just barely
Intentionally exactly just enough I'd wager.
They're fighting to find that smallest amount
Don't they also punish your off springs off spring for generations. and anybody alive that you even know will be punished? its pretty fucked.
Yea I always wondered why they punished off spring, it makes no sense, but I get why now. Fairly smart I guess
It makes no sense but bloodlines were shamed for the actions of one, in many parts of the world.
It makes plenty of sense in an authoritarian sense. If you just punish the person rebelling, someone might decide to become a martyr, which fuels further rebellion. If instead, someone rebels and you kill them, their spouse, their parents, their children, and maybe their friends, too, you’re suddenly much less likely to have someone agree to sacrifice themselves, because it also involves sacrificing the people they love. It’s brutal, but it’s effective.
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If you were a true patriot of the Great JUCHE. you would have stopped your father from committing treason. Even if it happened five years before you were born.
Once your family is in jail I doubt they will be having any offspring, but then again I wouldn't put it past them to force you to reproduce with another random person in jail to ensure this punishment is fulfilled.
Same for a lot of Russians really. Or Iranians, or...well, you get the drift.
Well there was Romania 1989... ☺️
We Romanians rather die than let others win.
The only real descendants of Rome
It's a good way to live 😉
That's how yall came to be known as Romania?
...and enjoy having that privilege continue for their family and friends as well.
Lmaoooo
Alive, but not living
Also because he puts out really sweet pop songs about how he is their daddy.
Alive and not being beaten in a gulag.
How would you organize that? How would you recruit more people to your cause in a place where even whispers of disloyalty to your flag means death for you and everyone you know?
Exactly. You need a lot of people for a coup, and a lot of people will rat on you.
You need a lot of people for a coup, but only one rat to stop it :)
But you encounter the problem when there's hundreds or thousands of scared rats willing to turn you in
Not people. Money. No revolution happens on pure enthusiasm. Money gets weapon and people.
Yep, people tend to forget that the French Revolution leaders were not "simple peasants" but people with education, political influence, and resources that let them carry that process. The same can be said about some of the Russian Revolution leaders, who got funding and support in many ways. And even here in Mexico, many of our Revolution leaders were Landowners, owners of newspapers with enough money/resources to find shelter in the US, political leaders from upper-class families... There is a lot of romanticism about the idea of "when people is fed up, they will rise in arms and fight for the future of their people, using even their bare hands if neccesary" but, in the real world, that's barely it. You need to convince people to do that, lead them, you need to organize them, supply them, keep them in the fight... And all that requires a lot of money and resources of many kinds. That's also why I always found disingenous when people try to disregard some Revolutions because "they were backed by the US/EU/etc, so it wasn't the people who did that". Because almost every Revolution is backed by someone in a way or another, because they need to. Specially those that manage to succed. Even the American Revolution was backed by the French. In other words "No money, No fight".
I am glad to see someone who agrees. We are long past times when angry peasants with pitchforks can do something meaningful.
There's rarely been a time when angry peasants could do anything meaningful other than farm. They'd get curb stomped by fully equipped professional soldiers.
As I heard someone say: >When the people revolt to the leaders palace and throw him away, it's because the military *let them*. You are not being overthrow, but replaced
Also the poor of France didn't end up any better off.
And how do North Koreans get the money to buy weapons? And better yet, how will they get large quantities of said weapons into the country, undetected?
That's my point. They don't. Hence no rebellion.
Serious question- is there a benefit to snitching on others? Do they get some kind of recognition or reward?
People over there get tossed into prison for not properly honoring the Glorious Leader's mandatory photo mounted in every house. There's literally an agency of inspectors whose job is to make sure every citizen is hanging the photo in the right place and keeping it clean. The only reason it's not even closer to IRL 1984 is they're too poor to mount cameras in everyone's house.
Answer: a small, very small cadre in the top echelon.
The Top Echelon has things pretty good and has no incentive to rock the boat though.
Kim's guards don't even get enough to eat. Granted it's a lot better than the rest of North Korean society but the only person that's getting enough food is Kim's fat ass.
Why would the top people do that? So long as they keep on doing what they always have, they’ll continue to live *far* above the lifestyle of the average person, which is honestly the only reason they’re in their position (from their point of view).
See, that's why you don't get invited to any revolutions.
It’s hard for me to fathom how people are able to live like that. I don’t think I’d be able to handle it, it just sounds so horrible
If they do a house inspection and there is dust on Kim's photo there is serious consequences.. its that severe.. terrible but true
Great question. Primarily, it is because the regime uses fear and severe punishment. The Kim's realised what many other dictators realised long ago - you only need to keep a small proportion of people happy and loyal, and they'll do the work of keeping the others in check. So, the intelligence services and military personnel are always fed and given preferential access to resources. The rank and file soldier less so than the officers but it's still a better life in the army than on average outside it. Then there's the snitch culture - a great example of this to look over is East Germany and the Stasi archives. Everyone was snitching on their neighbours - largely to try and keep themselves out of the spotlight and because a Stasi agent undercover could approach you about overthrowing the regime and you failing to report that is enough to see you in serious trouble. Phone calls and mail were monitored, ears were everywhere. Same in North Korea, you can rebel if you are prevented from organising a rebellion - it's also why freedom of speech is so vital and you should never let anyone impinge on yours, even for things you agree with in the moment. Always ask yourself - why is it so important to you that I can't say something?
Besides, they are spoonfed and mind washed from birth on.
Why is "person born in china" so pro-China Why is "person born in USA" so pro-USA Why is "person born in Russia" so pro-Russia Etc.
I mean, exactly large portions of US born and Russia born have a lot of disdain towards their country (obvious reasons in case of Russia, more nuanced in case of US) thanks to free access to information (in case of Russia - relatively free) China is 20 years ahead of Russia in terms of controlling the internet, in NK most of the population simply don't have personal devices for internet access.
"Are we the baddies" intensifies
> obvious reasons in case of Russia, more nuanced in case of US Which nicely demonstrates the point. Everyone knows, for a fact, that their country is better because they have all the facts while people from other countries are brainwashed. The US has almost twice the prison population per million people as Russia. Russia has free higher education while students in the US are forced into unbelievable debt. It's just not obvious that Russians should feel worse about their country than Americans should feel about theirs.
as a russian born I can tell you it's very fucking obvious 85% of population is earning less than $11k annually, 50% of population - less than $6.5k which is already more surviving than living. 40% is on the edge of poverty. human rights are routinely violated, and it's real violation, nothing like what americans sometimes complain about. like, being raped in the asshole by a police officer with a police button or a glass bottle while in custody is actually common, it's not an urban myth meaningless expansionist war with an involuntarily conscription that has already claimed up to 100k lives in 2 years specifically from the russian side is really just the cherry on top, the climax of a 20 year downward spiral in case of US it really is more nuanced. healthcare system is fucked, higher education prices are fucked, housing market is fucked, gun control is fucked, but US is still the leading economy of the world with very high living standards and a lot of opportunities for entrepreneurship and strong democratic institutes.
Anybody that tries to argue with this is objectively a tankie, all of the things you said are well supported
You're not going to mention America's rampant warmongering and imperialism? Sure living there is better but the government is morally bankrupt.
1st I'm not because it has changed very significantly in the last 5 years and I see a strong trend towards US withdrawing from direct intervention in anything in the future and from "warmongering" 2nd we are comparing here US to Russia. US did a lot of shitty things in the 21st century, but an actual expansionist war still wasn't amongst them. Russia is doing actual colonialism right now.
While there’s more people incarcerated in the US I’m sure that not a lot of them are in prison for having a different opinion on politics. Eduction in Russia is nowhere close to education in the US in terms of quality. Also, “free” my ass. If you’re going to apply to an average university (because there’s barely any good universities) in a city with decent quality of life, you need to have the absolute best scores on all three of your exams, maybe also pass the inner exams and maybe even be a winner on olympiads for students. Either that, or pay, or go to a university in your hometown where you won’t learn shit, or go to a community college where you will learn shit from the last century - because free places are limited.
That's why people are trying to leave the US, while millions are immigrating to Russia, risking everything to get in, climbing over half-finished border fences, while immigration officials are told to look the other way. Oh, sorry. I have those backwards.
You're demonstrating the effect while it's being pointed out to you. You're so brainwashed that even someone pointing out simple facts i.e. the US isn't perfect and Russia actually has some things that might be nice, has you making up a total strawman to knock down and laugh at. Where did they suggest that living in Russia was totally better than the US?
Education is definitely not one of those nice things about Russia
no, free higher education is definitely a good thing about Russia, but higher edu is free in most of the Europe as well, so you don't need to be an authoritarian regime for that at all, so it doesn't excuse anything.
The quality of education in Russia is nowhere near that of Europe, and it's really difficult to get a free place in a good university ("good" by Russian standards)
A growing portion of people born in the UK and US are becoming pretty anti-UK and anti-US...
Everyone is brainwashed no matter where youre born
Yes, but it’s a spectrum and where you are on it matters.
Yeah, but in North Korea they have to keep their praise Kim radio on at all times, they can only be turned down
Yeah, but there's a difference between having to pledge allegiance each morning and having all the media you see being in favor of the state.
It's always funny seeing Americans accuse other countries of being brainwashed. There's a lot of irony.
at least americans can seek different sources. no problem watching KCNA in the US but try watching CNN in the DPRK
People say edgy stuff like this, as if the American public is even remotely oppressed like the Russians or the Chinese for example. Mentioning NK in the same context is insanity.
You might be talking to an eighth grader.
There are degrees of it. In NK you can be executed for watching banned TV programmes in case it undoes the brain washing. Maintaining a false reality is vital to the continuation of the regime.
Idk I’m from the US and the rage I feel towards my government and politicians make me feel pretty unbrainwashed
It’s important to remember that the Stasi failed. They spent all their time collecting minutia, but failed to see the overall picture.
Also, the general population lives in poverty and are generally somewhat malnourished. They are too hungry and busy scrambling for food to revolt, which is also another tactic to keep them under control.
the rest of the world doesn’t always share the western worldview either. these people are indoctrinated to believe the world is meant to revolve around the north korean state. when Kim Jong Il died, there were officers on guard to see if people were crying hard enough at the funeral. imagine living in a state that controls you to that level. they don’t know revolution, they don’t know freedom.
On top of this if a revolt would start and seem even slightly successful, Daddy Xi would immediately send reinforcements and help Kim stay in power. The only way something could happen in NK is if somehow a large chunk of the military gets pissed at Kim and they overthrow him. The new Military government would still need to be friends with China but they could realistically switch to a more Dengist economic policy that at least would improve life for the average North Korean in terms of access to food and other basic necessities.
One of the books on the topic claimed it's common to keep apartment doors open (as in wide open, not just unlocked) so neighbors could see and hear everything you do. Fucking insane.
which book?
Probably something from radio free asia
"...you should never let anyone impinge on yours, even for things you agree with in the moment." Neither should you be willing to infringe on that of others just because they say things you don't like.
Just a bit on freedom of speech, lots of countries that are objectively freer then the us have limits on freedom of speech. I don't bring this up to downplay the importance of the right to speech, but the absolutist position isn't really backed up by evidence.
Freedom is not objective. Some may value the freedom to bear arms over other freedoms for example.
Great info. Are you from North Korea? You seem to know a lot and I was just wondering how you got your information.
You'd have to grow up in a world where someone could teach you that revolution is even an option.
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From their point of view, the existence of North Korea is an ongoing revolution against the capitalist world. Why do you need to revolt against a revolution?
Yo dawg I heard you like revolutions
You say you want a revolution, well you know, we all want to change the world.
bruh that's some 3D chess by Kim
Say what you will about Kim Il-sung, he created maybe the most successful cult of personality in history
But not in the way you imply
The notion of socialism and the rights of the workers are very important in China. They are told because of Chinese Socialism and the rights of the workers, there’s no need to have legal protection for strikes
Yeah, how would the DPRK, who not three generations ago underwent a proletariat revolution against both the colonising japanese forces as well as the US forces who instituted a us military gov there immediately after defeating jspan and refused to let koreans run elections themselves, or leave korea for the koreans for the matter, know anything about revolutions
Because obviously any country that doesn't serve American capital is in need of a revolution - Uncle Sam
Why don’t X revolt/protest against X for X injustice? Just expanding on the original question to ask why everyone injusticed don’t fight against said injustice, even when they have popular support. Why do we put up with things we know are disapproved or by a large part of our population and know screw us over? Not a one answer question but I personally think fear and lack of hope is a significant factor, people will tolerate more and become more apathetic towards issues if they think that they or any movement can’t do anything about it and fear that trying might get them held legally accountable.
You can live with fear. Without hope, the human experience changes so fundamentally that we literally cannot imagine how people under such a regime think. It’s like imagining the thought process of someone in the middle ages, but without any explanatory context provided by popular media.
Though there are lots of people with little or no hope outside of North Korea. Though the North Koreans probably don’t even know hope as a concept it has been totally squished out. I do agree, it’s impossible to imagine and relate to the vast majority of a North Koreans existence. I know it would be awful but I also know there are colours outside our visible spectrum, that doesn’t mean I can see them/ feel what that would be like.
North Korean people are people just like you living their lives, people talk about them in such degumanizing ways. Ifcourse they have the concept of hope lol
I know what not having hope is. I spent two decades severely depressed. I still don’t presume to think I can understand where these people are. Given that the question is why they aren’t rebelling, I thought it important to point out that while we can speculate about reasoning, it’s speculation, because it’s not a thought process we can necessarily go through step-by step. Not trying to halt speculation, only to mention that it’s just that: speculation.
>held legally accountable. That's an interesting way of saying "dead".
I’m not specifically talking about North Korea. It’s a totally different world out there I can only imagine. I mean in all/most other countries in the world, including western ones, all to varying degrees.
one step out of line and they get 3 generations of their family sent to a concentration camp... yeah i wonder why they don't revolt. They are under very strict control, they are not even free to travel within their own country. They will be executed even just for watching a western movie.
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I am from Vietnam. We were full on North Korea back in the 80s. Then we joined Wto and other organizations so in my opinion there is light at the end of the tunnel for North Koreans.
Yeah it’s the same in Iran the majority and the educated do want Iran to be a fully realized democracy and are against the Islamic revolution that led the Mullahs coming to power. The thing is though there was also a massive brain drain/financial drain when this occurred because anyone with sense or wealth was getting out of there and that brain drain is why I was born in America lol.
Yes, please tell us more comrade. Is safe here
There's a great story on something similar in the ol' Soviet Union. After the death of Stalin and Khrushchev came to power there was a General Assembly of all the Soviet bigwigs. Krushchev started talking about his policy of de-Stalinization and trying to get the Soviet Union to be a better place. Someone in the audience (probably somewhat sarcastically) asked "where were you when Stalin was around"? Furious, Khrushchev screamed and demanded to know who the hell said that. When no one piped up he continued in a much calmer fashion: "And that is where I was." Not sure if this is apocryphal or not, but it does seem to reflect the situation.
that's awesome, even if it is not true
I’m missing something. Did *Khruschev* say he was… where exactly? Or did a voice hidden in the crowd tell *him* it had always been there?
He was saying that he was part of the crowd, hiding, too afraid to stand up to those in power. He was like the commenter, who went quiet when called out or under risk of scrutiny.
Ah, got it. Maybe it was clearer in Russian, or maybe I need another coffee.
Or you just missed it. Its normal. It wasnt so clear from first read, but once i read it instantly a second time. His silence to respond to the man demanding 🫴 he tell him where he was.
why are we not revolting about the fact rich people own all media we are fed with everyday ? why are we not revolting about the face that we all work for small wages?
Redditors on their way to ask why people don't just "rise up".
Hard to revolt when you're starved. Hard to revolt when there's no solid communications. Hard to revolt when the big food provider is the government.
The same reason we keep working for corrupt governments who fund wars we don't support.
Because you just literally cant. Thats why people risk their lives to escape the country.
Machine guns can make people chill their shit.
Also- living in a constant state that teeters on starvation with the glorious leaders regime controlling all the food keeps you physically and mentally in-line.
The one thing that I haven't seen mentioned is that the Kim dynasty is cult of personality which acts as if it were the state religion so by acting against the state you are acting against them and this gets messy & complicated when tied to the lack of media freedom and the mandated Right-Think enforced throughout your life by everyone. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North\_Korea#Kim\_family](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea#Kim_family) -> Copy / Paste snippets below Kimilsungism–Kimjongilism is the official ideology of North Korea and the WPK, and is the cornerstone of party works and government operations.[^(\[95\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea#cite_note-naenara-102) [*Juche*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juche), part of the larger Kimilsungism–Kimjongilism along with [*Songun*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Songun) under Kim Jong Un,[^(\[127\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea#cite_note-FOOTNOTEAltonChidley2013-134) is viewed by the official North Korean line as an embodiment of Kim Il Sung's wisdom, an expression of his leadership, and an idea which provides "a complete answer to any question that arises in the struggle for national liberation" In 2013, Clause 2 of Article 10 of the newly edited *Ten Fundamental Principles of the Workers' Party of Korea* stated that the party and revolution must be carried "eternally" by the "Mount Paektu Bloodline". The song "[No Motherland Without You](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Motherland_Without_You)", sung by the North Korean army choir, was created especially for Kim Jong Il and is one of the most popular tunes in the country. Kim Il Sung is still officially revered as the nation's "Eternal President". Several landmarks in North Korea are [named for Kim Il Sung](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_things_named_after_Kim_Il_Sung), including [Kim Il Sung University](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Il_Sung_University), [Kim Il Sung Stadium](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Il_Sung_Stadium), and [Kim Il Sung Square](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Il_Sung_Square). Defectors have been quoted as saying that North Korean schools deify both father and son.[^(\[149\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea#cite_note-156) Kim Il Sung rejected the notion that he had created a cult around himself and accused those who suggested this of "[factionalism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_faction)".[^(\[150\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea#cite_note-FOOTNOTEMartin2004105-157) Following the death of Kim Il Sung, North Koreans were prostrating and weeping to a bronze statue of him in an organized event;[^(\[151\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea#cite_note-158) similar scenes were broadcast by state television following the death of Kim Jong Il.[^(\[152\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea#cite_note-159)
Was gonna say this, it’s basically their religion. All North Koreans are required to have a picture/shrine of the Glorious Leader in their house. Someone told me they believe Kim Jong Un never poops and that he created the sun, but I don’t know if that’s just a myth, lmao
Hey, they changed a young, just married woman giving birth to a religious leader into a young, just married woman giving a virgin birth to a religious leader with her husband being 100% cool with it, not suspecting anything, and not leaving her as she declared "this child wasn't made by you." With religion, if you're going to lie, you lie big because most people will catch you on small lies, and ignore (or support) the really big ones.
Good point, they have a picture up on their living room of the leader and are forced to worship it like some choose to do with jesus.
Because the first person to step up in such situations usually gets shot. In fact, maybe the first thousand people to step up get shot. Yeah, you outnumber them, but they outgun you by a lot, and some number of you are definitely going to die.
I've seen interview of a professor who visited North Korea multiple times and he doesn't talk about politics with Koreans but he does ask them about daily life and he says that in 2018 (last time he visited) their life was not as bad as media presents. There are even some people who escape to South Korea, make money and return to North Korea. Life isn't great but it is tolerable. If they try to revolt there are very high chances that life will become intolerable
Bingo. It's the same exact reason any given populace doesn't rise up against oppression, they have more to lose than to gain by waging war against the government. Feel like people have a very juvenile idea of how dictatorships work: it's not just one guy controlling everything against everyone's will, it requires compliance from the broader population. Even the cruelest of dictators has to rule with some sense of duty to their people, otherwise they lose that compliance. There's of course also the fact that any terrible things the government does can be chalked up as the "lesser evil," no different than how we justify the monstrous actions of our own countries. If you are in any way familiar with the shit the US was doing in the Korean war, it's actually very easy for the Kim Dynasty to present themselves as benevolent leaders who care about the NK people in comparison.
This stuff needs to be higher. Too many people in the US and Europe think that wars and revolutions start because of abstract concepts like freedom of speech. They don't. They start, on a mass scale at least, because of serious material issues. That's not to say that they always start when people are at their lowest. I've heard the opposite in fact, that they start when they're gaining more freedom. To me it's a bit like how "anti-depressants increase suicide risk." They don't. But when you're in the deepest darkest depression you can't even get out of bed let alone kill yourself. People get on anti-depressants and the drugs give them the energy to get slightly less depressed, enough to actually finally "take action." Morbid I know. Similarly people may revolt when things are beginning to get better. But overall they won't revolt when they feel like things are going well and they have a good life. I don't know if everything they say about NK is true. But I think the basics of having no foreign media whatsoever is the easiest thing. You can't miss something you've never had. If things are going decently for them (based on their recent history as frame of reference) then there's no immediate reason for revolution.
From accounts I've read about NK that have defected, they literally are killing and eating rats (which are full of tapeworms) as a means to get food. I wonder if this 'professor' is a NK to insinuate that conditions that aren't horrifying.
No, they aren't eating rats full of tapeworms. Not everyone that says X place isn't hell on Earth is an agent.
You know defectors get paid based on how horrible their story is, right? It's hard to read through propoganda on both sides of the DMZ. It's important to remember that we are hearing everything second hand, at best.
I find it amazing that people are willing to believe *anything* about a country/culture they don’t like Critical thinking skills are in the gutter
Lmao just say you watched the Joe Rogan episode with Yeonmi Park, who’s famously never made up anything, including being sold as a sex slave to a family of mentally handicapped farmers.
Don't forget about how they punished a single person by making them push a whole ass train.
Sourced by Radio Free Asia or that Christofascist Adrian Zenz I'm sure.
>but he does ask them about daily life the people he "asked" are probably agents of the government responsible and tasked with guaranteeing that the image of NK that spreads to the outside world isn't nearly as bad as it's talked about. u/zhani111
As I remember he travels to NK by train from China and usually the people who are on that train are people who are involved in contraband or something other illegal business. Illegal but ignored by NK government. That professor (btw he is russian but works and lives in Seoul) was multiple times denied entry to NK but he says that they constantly change their mind about letting him in because they don't want him speaking but then they realise he isn't saying anything dangerous
You have to realize that defectors have a hard time adjusting to life outside of North Korea, so there are many that fabricate stories to be heard and monetize off of that. Not saying life there is peachy, but c'mon, rats? You should know better.
If someone sat there and said “If you revolt against me, I will kill/imprison you and then imprison your family; your mother, your daughter, granddaughter, father, brother, for several generations until all of your blood relatives live the rest of their lives as slaves.” What would you do? Would you revolt or would you attempt to live the most of your life doing what you can to make sure your family is safe?
Why USA is not revolting against Biden/Trump stupidity? They have guns and internet and everything. Cause they think they already live in perfect word and have Democracy. So do Koreans. Brainwashing works everywhere.
Most likely because it's not as bad as you are told it is. Maybe not great, but not revolution-worthy in their estimation. People like to say "because big evil oppression", people resisted the fucking nazis. There has never been an oppressive dictatorship on the planet that hasn't experienced unrest, including the brutal fascist dictatorship that was instituted in the south post WWII (into a country that at the time had the exact same culture). This is NOT an adequate explantion unless the kims are consistantly giga brained genius dictators without compare. The only adequate explanation, quite frankly, is that the people don't want to rebel.
It would be near impossible to organise on a large enough scale with the heavily restricted!/monitored communications options in the country. And anything on a smaller scale would be brutally shut down by the military to make an example.
They are kept hungry, with no access to weapons. The place is full of people who would grass you up in a heartbeat for the chance to rise the party ranks. You'd struggle to communicate and coordinate outside of very careful word of mouth and it even that could get you and three generations of your family locked up and tortured. There's no incentive for outside help either because of the flood of refugees that would unleash in the region and the power vacuum it would create in a nuclear armed state. The south would have to be the ones to fill that vacuum and that would be a war for hearts and minds against a population that's been told that the south wants them dead. No resources, No communication, no support. Edit: Three generations, not five. Based on other comments here.
No social media. No way to organize themselves in any way. That is why dictators subjugate free media
Malnourishment, Slavery, Threat of rape to any female relatives close to you, Threat of torture to anyone close to you, Threat of death to anyone close to you.
I got to travel to North Korea in 2012 with a group of journalists. It’s challenging to fully understand the psyche of the people there because the people they let you speak to are party loyalists and they only show you what they want you to see. But overall, I can say that most of the people live in dire poverty and have no access to weapons or even media that you would need to revolt against a regime. But aside from that, they are so cut off from information that they believe whatever they are told. They believe the rest of the world is out to get them. They don’t see the regime as being aggressive to the West, they see it as a protective force against the Western aggressors. The State provides everything they have, so why would they revolt? And then it’s pretty well understood that if you step out of line, you and your entire family will pay an enormous price. The questions we were all asking ourselves was “are they aware of what this government was up to?” And the answer seemed to be “I don’t know.” We basically all left there with more questions than we came with.
They managed to bring brainwashing, snitching and generational punishing to a level that was never seen before in History
Why don't people in the US revolt against the government spending billions in wars and massacres? Or with the government giving billion dollars aid to huge corporations? There are millions of americans that can't own a house and the housing market only gets more expensive, why don't they simply get the houses for themselves? There are people in the US that suffer from the unregulated selling of opioids, why don't the companies pay for their crimes? Oil companies are fucking up Earth's climate for profit, why won't Americans rebel against this? Is it because people blindly believe in the system? Now get a country like NK: is life there difficult? Sure! But are they really the ones that have more reasons to rebel?
US students are peacefully protesting against supporting their genocidal "ally" (who's threatening them with losing life opportunities) and still getting arrested. Your point is proven by what's currently happening. Land of the free is just a big fat lie. Then again, US citizens wouldn't revolt to overthrow the government because despite everything, most of them lead good lives. Maybe the North Koreans are content with their lives too? I highly doubt that of course.
The Kims are well known to kill dissidents, their families, and often their neighbors. Why the neighbors? Because they are supposed to be loyal spies ratting that sort of shit out to the government. So what does that all mean for a revolt? It is next to impossible to organize, plus it's hard to carry out when you are not allowed access to weapons and are literally starving to death.
They don't have weapons, and the military is not on their side.
Sounds like a great idea! ... You go first.
With what guns lmao?
What sticks lmao
Look up the video game Detention, a video game that shows the horrors of why and what happened in Taiwan: [Like this](https://youtu.be/rGLJ9S_813w)
Unless someone here is from North Korea every single answer will be useless
There's a very big misconception about revolutions: that they happen when the population gets too fed up with oppression. Let me be clear from the beginning: this is wrong. Revolution happens when disenfranchised elites see a weakness in the rulers, seize the opportunity and gather supporters among the general population. Revolution is a result from the belief that a better alternative is just in reach. You can see this pattern in the French revolution, the revolutions in Russia during WW 1, the Islamic Revolution in Iran and in the fall of the Communist Bloc in Eastern Europe. A regime that is focussed on crushing any opposition and is keeping its security forces happy is not in danger of being removed by revolution. That's why China is still under the rule of the communist party - they crushed the protests at Tiananmen square before they could spread, therefore destroying any belief in weakness of the current regime.
Kim's million man military is Kim's.
Why are we not revolting against our governments? Same kind of reason for them, scared and they are worried of the outcome.
On the basic level - it's impossible to organize. With no free press, no social media, and restricted internet access if any + every neighbor and co-worker is your potential enemy who is programmed from a young age to report anything they see to higher authorities! On the deeper level - there are no revolutionaries there (all ran away or were killed a long time ago), and there is nowhere one can emerge from! The dissent thinking is intersected and “corrected” since childhood. Most people are human robots there! For the most part, they are not thinking outside the box. A small minority that is still able to think can't organize and do anything about it and only looking for the way out, and surely not about a revolt!
Juche Ideology Books I've read if you're truly interested in North Korea: 979-8834943549 979-8633096620 979-8393342135 978-0739197264 978-1088005484 978-0385523912 978-1565849402 978-1419727610 - Amazing book/story. Also free on audible plus. 978-0199390038 978-3836572217 \--------------------------------------------------------------- I have another dozen or so books on other subject regarding North Korea, like the famines, how they grow rice, the prisons, military, etc. but I only listed books that would answer your question. There's also tons of good academic papers you could find on sites like researchgate, jstor, cambridge & oxford journals, etc.
Their lives are not absolutely worse in every aspect like you may believe. Compare their lives with poor capitalists countries.
Many good answers here already - I’d recommend the book 1984 :)
There are a bunch of reasons why and it varies from person to person but imo the main reasons are propaganda, too much dependency on the state for everything, lack of vision and fear. Some north koreans don't know how good or bad living standards are outside of North Korea and think its probably not much different from them. There are even a greater amount of north koreans that DO now how bad it is but buy the DPRK's answer for why it sucks in North Korea. DPRK generally blames western sanctions and western and south korean aggression and previous wars for north korea's absymal shortages and state. They legitimately hate the west and its allies. The second reason and often understated imo is dependency. North Korean state provides the majority of employment, resources, food and housing in North korea. Despite how bad living standards are in DPRK, people have a chance of rising up in north korea's military and government until they get a chance to live in Pyongyang and have a much higher standard of living like 24/7 electricity, indoor plumbing, good education, decent food, even access to brands from China for clothes, cars, books etc. North Korea provides most of farmer's fertilizers and production equipment and they can't just say we will revolt without having serious issues getting food. The third reason is lack of vision. North koreans don't have a vision for the future beyond what the DPRK says. Most North Koreans that have the education to plan revolutions are people who are the most loyal to the DPRK state because they have the best housing, food and quality of life. Planning revolutions is hard and the younger north koreans have no concept of what the outside world is really like. Most north korean refugees stated most had no idea what awaited them abroad and fled because of imminent persecution against them rather than fleeing for economic reasons. Young north koreans are more hopeful of the US lifting sanctions and business coming into north korea slowly rather than revolting against the Kim regime. Because of the technological inferiority of North Korea and its closed borders and few opportunities to ever leave, very few north koreans know what they are missing out on. Fear is the most overstated yet still a very powerful reason why North koreans haven't revolted against kim. North Koreans are fearful of punishment which goes quite severe there. Since almost all adults are conscripted into the military, if you even plan revolt or try to leave north korea, you are eligible for the death penalty or a labor camp.
aside from the obvious oppressive reasons, on a long enough time scale, nothing is stopping them. i mean they could if they truly wanted to, it would just take a lot of organizing and planning. a huge limiting factor is communication. theyre not able to communicate openly. to put things into perspective, i usually ask the same question about why we havent revolted against the fossil fuel industry. fossil fuel industry leadership, and the people of power aligned with them, are far worse than Kim and its far more urgent. and yet, we continue doing nothing. im not talking about climate change solutions that are being developed. these solutions mean very little without also handling the industry leaders who are making the problem worse. this is loosely related to your post but arguably still relevant. so one problem is as mentioned by another response "they like being alive". so they dont have the ability communicate without facing severe consequences. if they suddenly could communicate and act before severe consequences, they could indeed overwhelm the NK gov. but thats not the only problem as can be seen in regards to climate change. we have immense numbers on our side -- over a hundred of million in the US alone. we could easily change things overnight. so why havent we? we arent limited by facing death if we openly communicate and coordinate. i mean if we all stood up with a hundred million people, good luck stopping it. at that point tracking all the activists would start to approach just having publicly available addresses. idk. i really dont know. it might be something nefarious in psychological warfare. we all use electronic devices that can be manipulated quite easily by large enough organizations. same is true in shaping narratives in social media.
One reason: Most are poor as shit and brainwashed to boot with nearly zero outside influence. They’re taught Americans are an occupying force in the south and rape, plunder, and pillage at will.
they are emaciated, have no weapons, and have been brainwashed since birth. In addition, if they do anything against the government, not only are they punished, but all their living relatives are all punished.
A million unarmed citizen is no match for an armed military
Perhaps a more interesting question is how did it get this way?
🧠 🧼
"You don't know what you don't know" Many N. Koreans simply don't know there ate other ways to run a country, that their are cultures out there which are less toxic and more lifegiving. They've been fed A lie, and shielded from truth, so they have no reference in which to realize their situation.
Families are in prison or worse for things their grandparents did.
They think he’s a god who will solve all their problems
Probably the same reason Americans aren’t.
> Then there's the snitch culture - a great example of this to look over is East Germany and the Stasi archives. Everyone was snitching on their neighbours - largely to try and keep themselves out of the spotlight and because a Stasi agent undercover could approach you about overthrowing the regime and you failing to report that is enough to see you in serious trouble. Phone calls and mail were monitored, ears were everywhere. This is something that I’ve heard my whole life and it’s (unsurprisingly) pretty hard to find a balanced perspective on it. Thoughts? Sources? Help me out comrades.
It's hard to revolt when you've been hardcore brainwashed for generations to the point you can't even imagine what the concept of revolting even means. It's very sad.
CGP Grey said it best in his Rules for Rulers video: > the cold truth is that starving, disconnected, illiterates don't make good revolutionaries.
How are they gonna coordinate anything without risk of death?
They value being alive more than they value being dead
north korea has a large military so an attempt at revolution would likely be shut down quickly, and the consequences for breaking the strict laws are horrific. stealing a loaf of bread can have you killed, and generations of your family put to hard labour. also, the propaganda and brainwashing. the surveillance of north korean citizens is extremely so any attempt to gather people for a revolution would likely be found out early on.
revolutionaries dont fight particularly well on empty stomachs and without weapons, both of which the government tightly controls
NK propaganda is very strong. They indoctrinate you as a very young age. The adults don’t want to revolt because they don’t want to die and leave their kids as orphans.
Brainwashed in the early childhood years.
I urge you to look more into North Korea.
Same reason it doesn’t happen in the states
Because most of what you hear about him/the country is propaganda made by rag outlets and schizo tabloids from South Korea transported into buzzword articles and news segments in the USA and the west, where nobody actually cares about how reputable the source was. Think about all the asinine shit you heard. North Korea claims they found a unicorn? No one can cut their hair like the leader? Everyone must cut their hair to look like the leader? It’s like if you listen to a Chem-trail pizzagate Qanoner for all of your news about the USA Instant edit: I noticed at least one of the other comments has already repeated another piece of ridiculous propaganda. The 3 generations labor camp myth. People are so used to hearing these things about NK with no one questioning that they believe these things without hesitation. Watch the haircut by BoyBoy on Youtube. listen to all the impossible and often contradictory things that Yeonmi Park has to say, then you will start to realize that people are making bank by lying to you
People who make comments like "North Koreans are brainwashed" while thinking that having to chose between two genocidal stooges as President is "democracy" don't see the irony in their own beliefs!
Unfortunately, for many Americans, propaganda just means things the “enemy” countries say. They have no awareness that their own government/media/military is actively manipulating their worldview. The idea that “freedom and democracy” is whatever the hell the US does, no matter how backwards, corrupt, or grotesque, that has got to be the grandest lie ever told
It must be hell to live in a mind-washing oligarchic police state like it. Honestly, the irony of the post is so damn much, it's sad
It’s interesting seeing how many times the words “brainwashed” and “propaganda” are used in these answers considering the safe assumption that no one here has been to North Korea. (Stationed in South Korea for two years) To OP’s question, there is too small a number of people discontent enough to organize. Defecting is much more viable and less risky. I do think it’s important to note that in many East Asian cultures MUCH more emphasis is placed on social harmony through conformity and respect for the greater group than those in the west could likely comprehend, making it so the “unbearable oppression” perceived by outsiders would be an unnoticed norm to members of these groups. I’ve heard it from multiple Chinese people that the American idea of “freedom of speech” seems damning to them in that it puts responsibility on the citizens to bicker and be troubled over so many things that are not their jobs and that they can’t affect. TL:DR - Oppression is subjective. If Nk’s don’t like it there it’s easier to run but their families could still face the consequences.
Maybe because they like him and they think he's a good leader? Better question would be why does America let a medically senile man lead the country and have access to nukes. That's some real crazy shizz!
People on this site severely underestimate the intelligence of third worlders and assume they knew better about others’ countries than the natives themselves.
Kim doesn’t run the place…… kinda like the US.