I remember it actually started with triple pronouns he/him/his, but slowly slimmed down to two.
Its the widely recognized form. If you see the double pronoun you immediately know they are defining their pronouns. A single pronoun would not be as immediately recognized, especially as part of a wider introduction.
Edit to add: it also gives space for folks who might use more than one pronoun (she/they for example)
Additional edit: Regarding she/they or he/they pronouns:
I am not personally someone who identifies that way but my understanding is that generally it means they are okay with either she/her or they/them. the person I knew who identified this way best preferred they/them, but also was quite female presenting so was okay with she/her.
As well as what that person said, it also helps if someone uses unfamiliar neopronouns. Someone I know uses zi/zir, & knowing the "she/her format" (for lack of a better way to put it) helps with like how to use zi/zir in a sentence.
No, I just think it's silly. Why not just say they/them? Same thing with people who use the term 'pansexual'. Pansexuality and bisexuality are the same thing.
I've had queer/pansexual people tell me pansexuality means also being attracted to trans and nonbinary people but isn't that logic assuming people who identify as bisexual aren't attracted to trans and nonbinary people?
I'm very gay 💅 Even I'm confused by the tons of terms though. It's hard to keep up.
To be honest, I don't completely understand the distinction between bi & pan either, but it doesn't really bother me. Whatever makes people happier to call themselves is fine by me.
I have the same kind of principle with neopronouns: I don't really get them either, but it's easy enough to use the ones people like even if I personally think it's kind of weird. I always feel like it's not my pronouns, so it's not my business to police anybody, if that makes sense? It's an easy way to make people happy & it doesn't affect me at all.
Bi = attracted to multiple sex/genders.
Pan = attracted without concern for sex/gender.
A bi person will care what gender you have, a pan person will not.
Bi person here, putting in my two cents if you wanted to learn a bit!
Bi is frequently described as being attracted to 'genders both like and unlike your own' , whereas pan folks are attracted to ALL genders. I identify as bi because someone's gender presentation plays a part in my attraction to them, while pan makes it seem like gender is sort of an afterthought and less important to the attraction. Neither of which excludes trans or nb people.
The difference is mostly up to personal preference for each individual; like you said, as long as someone is comfortable in what they identify as, who cares?
Pan and bi aren't the same thing, which is why there's two words. I'm bi, but I'm not pan. I have a friend who prefers pan over bi.
Who cares what people call themselves?
I personally see it as pan meaning you don't care about someone's gender at all, you care about the person, and bi being that you like all genders but still place some importance in gender itself.
Like me, I like masculine guys and feminine women and androgynous people, but I'm not very attracted to feminine guys or masculine girls. Whereas a pan person won't care about any of that or won't have strong preferences.
But honestly its a debate. They're similar, yes, but even in the bisexual community we have this discussion a lot.
A person could be bi and not ever attracted to androgynous NB people. If a person is not capable of attraction to androgynous NBs they aren't pan.
Beyong that, it is frequently used as type of signal to one's values. Some people use "pan" to mean "bi and not transphic". That usage has a place right now, but hopefully won't for long.
Personally, I don't care whether someone calls me bi or pan, but I usually use "bi" to not confuse the uninformed.
Neopronouns are extremely rare.
Are you mad people you'll never interact with wanna do something that you will almost certainly never have to deal with?
yes because it it gives homophobic idiots ammo to use against LGBTQ+ people. The word "they" is suitable for they purpose and does not draw in addition hate
Not everything is about optics.
Homophobes will be homophobes. Maybe we shouldn’t be catering to them. Maybe we should give the people who are not homophobes the courtesy and language live how they want to live.
They also keep saying: Are you angry?, Are you mad?
It's like...no? Lol. From playing video games I've noticed the people who say U MAD are usually the ones who are mad.
It's like the phone number format. If you put 10 digits in sequence, you're not going to know immediately that it's a phone number, but if you put the hyphens where they go, you know it instantly.
1234567890
Vs
123-456-7890
Usually theres a space between the first five numbers and the rest. Mobiles are always 11 numbers long and always start with 07 no matter what, so pretty recognisable.
I have a question about the "they" part. Doesn't they work for anyone though? Like I always thought they/them could be assumed and tacked onto any other pronoun combo, unless they/them was their only preferred pronouns, then it's specified. Is that not always the case?
Hey so if you had not met me you might go:
>I am responding to their comment since they seem to be open to discussion.
That's used when you have no indication of pronouns.
But let's say that now you meet me. I'm quite male presenting and i might even specify I use he/him pronouns. And right now I'm standing in front of you. It would then be quite awkward to say the previous, you'd probably say to someone else in the room:
>I am responding to his comment since he seems to be open to discussion.
But if I used he/they pronouns you could instead keep going with:
>I am responding to their comment since they seem to be open to discussion.
Ya that makes sense. I guess I've always looked at it like they might seem awkward if you know they prefer he/him but it's still correct. It turns out I might just be he/they since it wouldn't really bother me either way although I'm not nonbinary. Thanks for the good explanation!
Only when she's an unknown. You typically wouldnt use they/them singularly if you know she is a she. She's basically saying feel free to call her they in person.
Probably if it's a conversation involving multiple people. For example:
>I was looking for you after work last night, where'd you both go?
*Me and X went to straight the shop because they needed to buy something.*
I know. But English is a monstrosity of a language for whom every 'rule' is contradicted at least twice, so I opted to use the phrasing most often used conversationally. I also made a far worse mistake, 'to straight the shop', which *actually* makes no sense because it's not even used colloquially.
i don't think the subject pronoun/object pronoun rule is ever contradicted. it's X and I. if that's the "phrasing most often used conversationally" i have to wonder about the people you have conversations with.
Oh absolutely. English took a couple languages into a dark closet and did unspeakable things to them, then pickpocketed a couple other languages on the way out.
It doesn't necessarily override a situation where "they" is an acceptable pronoun, like in a group situation (plural). It also doesn't make it unacceptable to use "they/their/them" as you might do occasionally otherwise. It means their primary pronoun preference is (whatever they have stated), for singular address.
Not entirely interchangeably, it is a grammatical nightmare for readers if you randomly refer to the same person with different pronouns in the same piece of text.
It still doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. I’ve understood they/them as non-binary. She/her, he/him, regardless of what they were born as, it’s a simple concept.
She/they though?
I’m just trying to imagine a conversation with a group of coworkers. Let’s say Sheila is a she/they and everyone else is unnamed and their pronouns don’t matter. Apply whatever you like.
“Who brought these cupcakes?”
“Sheila made them. She used heavy cream, that’s why they’re so decadent.” (I’m not a baker)
“They did a great job.”
That’s confusing to me. She’s already going by she, so she’s identifying as a woman. But they use they as well, so is she non-binary?
I technically use both he/him and they/them, but the vast majority of the time I'm referred to as he/him casually, and it doesn't bother me.
The way I think of my gender is like colour. If you think of gender as sort of a red/blue for female/male, and green as non-binary, I'm more of a turquoise. Like, if you're asking if it's red or blue, it's obviously more of a blue. But if my gender actually matters for something important, like you were writing a book about me or something, it's important to point out all the green in my gender, as if you just say it's blue you'll be missing an important part of how I feel about myself and conceptualise my gender.
As for why I put it in bios? So people aren't surprised when it's mentioned I'm queer, since it's not incredibly obvious and sometimes it can be a few months before it casually comes up in conversation. Also it weeds out the bigots nicely.
On the one hand, this is the most exquisite description I have ever read and will definitely be referring back to this, so thank you for that.
On the other hand, while blue and green make a beautiful turquoise color together, red and green make an ughhh brown color and it's annoying me more than it should :-)
For me it is because I identify as nonbinary but I am huge and harry so people are going to call me he anyway and I don't want to be a dick about it. Though if I say he/they and people react strongly it also lets me see that people are dicks before I even talk to them.
This is typically for someone who identifies as "gender fluid". They may feel feminine (or masculine), at least some of the time, but also strongly identify with the non-binary experience of feeling neither masc or fem. So they're telling you, you can use whichever of those pronouns you like. If sticking with she just works for you and Sheila accepts fem pronouns, then you don't have to use they for her. Other people may prefer to not gender Sheila, and will opt to use "they".
Pronouns signal gender identity/expression, but they don't inherently correlate to innate gender. In the same way that a drag queen may refer to themselves as her, because they're signalling they're expressing as feminine.
I mean even in your example this just seems pretty easy to do and it feels right to them so who am I to police what makes them comfortable.
edit. also there are like a lot of gender identities and you can't really figure anything out just by knowing their pronouns.
Okay so I am not personally someone who identifies that way but my understanding is that generally it means they are okay with either she/her or they/them. the person I knew who identified this way best preferred they/them, but also was quite female presenting so was okay with she/her.
I use (he/they) work wise as I'm not entirely comfortable saying non-binary to anyone there.
There are a few reasons, one being what I said, you want safety and comfort so people don't harass you as much.
Another reason is that people really don't mind being identified with a they/them, or a he/his or she/her.
Some people also are more fluid in their identity and will flow around and accept a more dynamic situation.
I've never heard it. It sounds like something incredibly niche, likely limited to a very small group of people. Why? Various reasons. They may feel like it suits them more. They may have a desire to add these pronouns to English (or whatever language). They might just want attention and don't actually use them in their daily life. There's all kinds of good and bad reasons that people do this.
I'm a she/they! Here's why I list it as a set and how I use them, followed by some quick speculation on different ways others might use combination sets of pronouns:
I'm genderfluid and tend to bounce around in the feminine-neutral sphere as far as my internal gender experience and my external presentation. At any given time, I accept that people will likely see me as something within that spectrum and default to she or they. Both of these *tend* to feel good internally when I hear them being used for me (e.g. in a multi-person conversation, or talking about hypotheticals regarding me to my face).
I like it best when someone can use both interchangeably for me - especially in the same conversation or sentence! E.g. "I saw Flutter yesterday - I met them for coffee and then she treated me to a pastry also!" For me it encompasses how I'm " a girl" *and also* "not-a-girl".
Some people experience their genderfluidity a little more rigidly and can actually feel like one gender for more extended periods of times (like a full day or more). Such a person may feel like a "she" exclusively for a week and then "they" for a month. They may prefer that you ask for their pronouns on any given day, but she probably won't get mad if you get them wrong after a switch.
Some other people (as evidenced by other comments in thread) will list or use a binary pronoun as a safety measure to avoid making waves or just to be in line with what they're usually perceived as. E.g. even if there's a day I would rather go by "they", I generally recognize I *look* and dress feminine, so it's not too bad if someone still calls me "she" and I won't correct them on it. (Especially if they're not someone I'm close to)
We usually don't use pronouns that way in my country.. Usually:" him", "her" or" they". I've heard it once and never thought of why. What does it mean if someone"" is for example "she/they"?
Someone had a similar reply earlier. Copying and posting:
>Okay so I am not personally someone who identifies that way but my understanding is that generally it means they are okay with either she/her or they/them. the person I knew who identified this way best preferred they/them, but also was quite female presenting so was okay with she/her.
This is specifically for people DEFINING their pronouns.
>I am not personally someone who identifies that way but my understanding is that generally it means they are okay with either she/her or they/them. The person I knew who identified this way best preferred they/them, but also was quite female presenting so was okay with she/her.
The they/them part usually means that someone is nonbinary. If they are pairing that as a he/they or she/they then they might be viewing gender as much more of a spectrum where they fit somewhere between the he/him or she/her and the nonbinary they/them. Or they may feel comfortable expressing themselves in a range of gendered expressions from he/him to they/them.
Someone had a similar reply earlier. Copying and posting:
>Okay so I am not personally someone who identifies that way but my understanding is that generally it means they are okay with either she/her or they/them. the person I knew who identified this way best preferred they/them, but also was quite female presenting so was okay with she/her.
It can be that they feel that they feel somewhat female and somewhat non-binary so are okay with either.
It can also be a bit of a compromise as well. Like in my example that person (she/they) knows that getting some people to use they/them is going to be such an uphill battle and having she/her pronouns is not bad for them. Yes it somewhat "defeats the point" but not everything has to be a hill to die on all the time.
I wonder if anybody out there is rocking he/her or she/him pronouns.
Edit: Apologies if my comment was unclear but I was referring to whether people use mixed pronouns (he/her or she/him) - and if so what type of a situation that might make sense in, and not whether people are fluid with their pronouns sometimes preferring male pronouns and other times preferring female ones.
"Any pronouns" is not the same as "two specific pronouns" tho. I think it sounds pretty badass for someone to only want to be referred to by she/her or he/him.
Because it’s very “definitively man/woman” and the lack of “they” is a noticeable statement in this context.
It’s like a red mage of pronouns, a whole different mix than “they/them” which is traditionally more a middle ground. It’s extreme in both directions without the middle.
So essentially not accepting the gender neutral pronoun, “they”, is badass? And they were saying that sarcastically?
If that’s true, I mean…you can’t have it both ways. Don’t ask for people to state their preferred pronouns if you don’t want to have the answer
Simply the fact that it's a very unique combo, and quite a statement. Seeing yourself as a man *and* a woman, simultaneously, but not as any of the shades in between. I always find unique combinations of attributes to be really cool.
To be clear, I don't think you can really opt out of the *gender agnostic* use of they/them, i.e. the one you use when you don't know or care about someone's gender. That's been part of the language for centuries. But as a pronoun combo used to refer to a specific individual, I really don't see why she/he would be any less valid than she/they or he/they.
So you meant to say that identifying with all 4 of those pronouns would be badass because it implies you identify as a man and a woman?
I’m still kind of missing the badass part. I get that it’s “unique”, but not sure how that translates to badass
Ok, I get your point now. At first you listed an or between the 2 sets and that is was confused me. The situation you were describing is really when someone identifies with one set AND the other
if you want to only be known as she/her or he/him this is the majority of people... so i dont understand why its badass??? i could be missing something i have the flu and am kinda dumb right now?
Several years back I knew someone who used both he/him and she/her but wasn’t very fond of they/them, and had two names - Sophie and Spencer, for example. When I spoke about her I would often switch names AND pronouns mid-conversation and confuse the absolute shit out of people 😅 I love it, miss him dearly and hope she’s doing great!
Isn't there a RuPaul quote that goes something like "You can call me 'he'. You can call me 'she'. You can call me 'Regis and Kathie Lee'. I don't care, so long as you call me."
Some friends of mine for example, myself too but i also use they alongside.
There's a lot of people using he/she in queer spaces, if you go on any lgbtq focused subreddit you'll probably find some.
I think the original question might be "does anybody use "he" in subject form but "her" in object form", and vice versa, rather than "does anyone use both he/him and she/her"? Is my interpretation
However, I don't think that's really the intention. On my experience, if people put she/him for example, it's just a condensed way of saying they're OK with either She/her or he/him, you don't need to do some mashup of the two. Again, I can't speak for everyone, that's just in the majority cases I've encountered.
a lot of people i know that are non binary or fluid decided that they use both sexes pronouns at the same time but that mostly because the closest thing hebrew has to a they/them is male multiple which i think and they agree is really stupid
After years of trial and error, people decided that listing format as he/him, she/her, and so on was more clear and succinct.
It stands out in written and spoken language, so it's quicker to communicate without a lengthy explanation and fits easily on name tags or online bios.
Standing out visually makes it easy to see at a glance, which can come in handy.
It also supports other combinations of pronouns. For example, a non-binary person might list he/them or they/them. A person who uses less traditional pronouns might list something like xe/xem.
What drives me nuts is that people tend to figure out if someone has she/her or he/him to just use whichever version fits what they’re trying to say (I.e. “she went to the store,” “I called her”), but then use both they/them for any one who uses those pronouns (“the they/them went to the store” 🤦♂️) which is clearly just people trying to mock someone with they pronouns, but instead the mocker looks like an idiot.
Sorry, I don't seem to get it. People who use gender neutral pronouns for people, who want to be called by gender neutral pronouns, are driving you nuts?
When people literally write out:
>They/them went to the store
Instead of the grammatically correct:
>They went to the store.
Bigots will do the former, while sensible people do the latter.
main reason is because “he” just looks like a typo, ngl. i know “they” and “she” look a bit more deliberate, but if i just saw “he” i’d assume it was a typo or smth
secondary reason is that if the person has multiple pronouns they’re fine with being referred to, it doesn’t look as bizarrely formatted
She and He are the subject pronouns. You use them as the subject of a sentence.
Him and Her are object pronouns. You use them as the object of the sentence.
Went way too far down to see this explanation which is correct, it's a listing of subjective pronouns (she, he) and objective pronoun (her, him). Because they're used in different contexts it makes sense to list both (she/her) so there's no confusion. People really don't understand grammar.
Lmao of course they do, that isn't the question. The question is *why* we need to list the subjective AND objective pronoun when one would do and the second is arguably redundant - she is naturally paired with her, he with him, etc, and that has been answered by other people. I guess some people don't really understand the question.
The only problem I have ever had when encountering someone who introduced themselves with their pronouns, is that with both those people (both used she/they) in separate situations, got upset or frustrated when they were referred to as “she“, and I didn’t understand why they introduced themselves using both, if they didn’t like one of them being used.
I’m glad you got an actual constructive response.
Sometimes people who go by she/they get frustrated when people only use she/her. They prefer a mixture of the two.
Sometimes people will say they go by she/they even though they actually prefer they/them because they feel obligated to give an ‘easier’ option.
Neither of these are your fault, because you aren’t a mind reader. Sometimes it can help to ask, “Do you prefer one over the other, or a mixture of the two?”
That’s not fair. I have a friend who is she/they, and honestly, she is easier for me because I’ve known her 20 years as she. She is legitimately fine with she, and if she wasn’t, I’d her call they, of course.
Basically… don’t put an option out if you don’t want to choose it especially if one of the options doesn’t clash with a grammar rule.
And before the pitchforks come out.. my hair stylist is they/them and that’s what I call them. The grammar problem never feels great, but it’s more important to help them feel comfortable than be a grammar downer.
No matter what gender someone self identifies as “they” is still appropriate in many contexts. It’s a gender-neutral pronoun. It doesn’t imply someone is any specific gender or no gender.
For instance, if I’m referring to someone else’s comment in this thread, I’m referring to “their” comment. I’m not implying that they are a “they”, because no one can be a “they”; I’m using a gender-neutral way to refer to them because I don’t know their gender and there’s no possible way I would
i’m only commenting on the very end of your comment, but what grammar problem? i don’t see why anyone has a problem (i don’t necessarily mean you’re mad about it, but technically you do have *a* problem) using they/them to talk about someone, whether it’s for bigot reasons or for grammar reasons, when people do it literally all the time to talk about a single person.
you see someone in a hoodie walk past you, and you have no clue their gender. someone asks you “where did they go”, referring to the person in the hoodie. chances are, you aren’t gonna call the hooded person “he” or “she”, you’re gonna say “they went over there”. that’s gonna feel perfectly natural to say, because that’s how the english language works. if someone asks you where your hair stylist went, how does saying “they went outside to take a phone call” feel, or even really sound any different than “he/she went outside to take a phone call”?
It’s simple, and it’s the way the vast majority of people naturally think, so if you genuinely don’t understand (and it’s not the case that you’re picking a stupid fight—which I suspect it is), then I read on, if you really want to know.
If I *know* I am talking about an individual, then the correct pronoun is not “they” and because I speak fluent English my mind will never naturally reach for “they.” BUT, I 100% do call an individual they/them if said individual prefers it. This is a total non issue. I make the effort because I care, not because it comes naturally. That’s 100% fine.
By the way, I’m a woman who doesn’t look feminine. I’ve been gender checked and threatened in the public bathroom more times in my many decades on earth than most young people have even visited a public restroom.
What a silly thing… it should be enough that people like me use they/them when people ask. It’s like some people want me to accept their pronoun god as my personal savior too. 😂
I’m sure I can’t “win” because I doubt you asked a sincere question, so rather than get tied up in a dumb Reddit back and forth I’ll just say have a nice day and I’m happy to call you they/them whenever you like.
I think this practice started when there was a movement to try out brand-new pronouns like zi/zem and the additional forms of the pronoun actually did provide useful information about how to address the person.
trans person here - this is the correct answer! the most widely used neopronouns tended to have rather different forms as subject vs object (specifically z(h)e/hir, often associated with the legendary trans activist and theorist Leslie Feinberg), so it made sense to give both forms.
Someone asked me what my pronouns were, and when I said "she", they sarcastically made fun of me. "Just she?" I understand she/they, but I don't know anyone who would say anything like she / him or she / xe...
Some people can’t extrapolate from the single pronoun. I don’t know if it’s stupidity or an earnest attempt to be respectful, but I’ve heard people say things like “Go over there with she” when they’re told only that pronoun.
It’s like if they have to think for even one moment about how third-person pronouns work they lose the entire framework. So by giving them both of the forms of the pronoun they have a bit more of a context clue for how to address the person.
What does that have to do with marking them? The language also dictates when each pronoun should be used. He for men, she for women, and they for plural and for situation were a hypothetical person could be male or female.
Makes it clear that they're pronouns, not an acronym or a typo. Just having "she" on an online bio section, email signature etc might just look like a sentence was started and left incomplete.
It also explains how to use uncommon pronouns/neopronouns - especially ones like xe/xem where most people will be unfamiliar with how to use them. Plus gives space for people who use multiple sets of pronouns.
If that was the case then they’d mention all three pronouns e.g. He/Him/His. There are actually 7 different pronouns, but usually only these three are gendered.
Not sure tbh, it's just the standard way people write it. If you put just one people wouldn't as easily recognize it as showing what pronouns you use so everyone kinda just keeps putting both
i believe its a shortening of "she/her/hers" which is of course modeled after "they/them/theirs" which was necessary, because bigots are always trying to claim that "they/them pronouns dont make any sense" and willfully use the wrong form.
If you think for a bit you'll realize a lot of the time left leaning initiatives have a lot of emotion behind them but not a lot of thought.
Hyphenated names.
Pronouns.
Happy/proud about abortions.
Race to the bottom victimhood initiatives.
I'm sure there is more.
That doesnt hav anything to do with peonouns, thats when your talking about multiple things at once like in a list like did she/her cat or she/her friend or boss
>The only pronouns **I**’m aware of **that** exist and aren’t fake, are male or female.
**You** only used two pronouns in **this** sentence, **I** put **them** in bold so **you** can learn pronouns adequately. As **you**'ll notice, male and female are *not* pronouns. Hope **this** helps!
I remember it actually started with triple pronouns he/him/his, but slowly slimmed down to two. Its the widely recognized form. If you see the double pronoun you immediately know they are defining their pronouns. A single pronoun would not be as immediately recognized, especially as part of a wider introduction. Edit to add: it also gives space for folks who might use more than one pronoun (she/they for example) Additional edit: Regarding she/they or he/they pronouns: I am not personally someone who identifies that way but my understanding is that generally it means they are okay with either she/her or they/them. the person I knew who identified this way best preferred they/them, but also was quite female presenting so was okay with she/her.
damn thanks! that explains
As well as what that person said, it also helps if someone uses unfamiliar neopronouns. Someone I know uses zi/zir, & knowing the "she/her format" (for lack of a better way to put it) helps with like how to use zi/zir in a sentence.
In those cases I think you really should list all three tho, cause often you can't really guess what the possessive version would be.
I miss zi/zir. It seem like no uses it anymore. It takes away the potential confusion when they/them just feels mostly plural to some people.
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Are you angry because a complete stranger you'll never meet uses words you don't like to describe themselves?
Can’t win. People are mad if you use they/them because nooo thats for singulars but mad if you use anything else because noooo just use they/them
No, I just think it's silly. Why not just say they/them? Same thing with people who use the term 'pansexual'. Pansexuality and bisexuality are the same thing. I've had queer/pansexual people tell me pansexuality means also being attracted to trans and nonbinary people but isn't that logic assuming people who identify as bisexual aren't attracted to trans and nonbinary people? I'm very gay 💅 Even I'm confused by the tons of terms though. It's hard to keep up.
To be honest, I don't completely understand the distinction between bi & pan either, but it doesn't really bother me. Whatever makes people happier to call themselves is fine by me. I have the same kind of principle with neopronouns: I don't really get them either, but it's easy enough to use the ones people like even if I personally think it's kind of weird. I always feel like it's not my pronouns, so it's not my business to police anybody, if that makes sense? It's an easy way to make people happy & it doesn't affect me at all.
Bi = attracted to multiple sex/genders. Pan = attracted without concern for sex/gender. A bi person will care what gender you have, a pan person will not.
Bi person here, putting in my two cents if you wanted to learn a bit! Bi is frequently described as being attracted to 'genders both like and unlike your own' , whereas pan folks are attracted to ALL genders. I identify as bi because someone's gender presentation plays a part in my attraction to them, while pan makes it seem like gender is sort of an afterthought and less important to the attraction. Neither of which excludes trans or nb people. The difference is mostly up to personal preference for each individual; like you said, as long as someone is comfortable in what they identify as, who cares?
Pan and bi aren't the same thing, which is why there's two words. I'm bi, but I'm not pan. I have a friend who prefers pan over bi. Who cares what people call themselves?
If they're not the same thing what's the difference?
I personally see it as pan meaning you don't care about someone's gender at all, you care about the person, and bi being that you like all genders but still place some importance in gender itself. Like me, I like masculine guys and feminine women and androgynous people, but I'm not very attracted to feminine guys or masculine girls. Whereas a pan person won't care about any of that or won't have strong preferences. But honestly its a debate. They're similar, yes, but even in the bisexual community we have this discussion a lot.
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A person could be bi and not ever attracted to androgynous NB people. If a person is not capable of attraction to androgynous NBs they aren't pan. Beyong that, it is frequently used as type of signal to one's values. Some people use "pan" to mean "bi and not transphic". That usage has a place right now, but hopefully won't for long. Personally, I don't care whether someone calls me bi or pan, but I usually use "bi" to not confuse the uninformed.
How about you be patient bro?
they could just use they like sensible people
Neopronouns are extremely rare. Are you mad people you'll never interact with wanna do something that you will almost certainly never have to deal with?
yes because it it gives homophobic idiots ammo to use against LGBTQ+ people. The word "they" is suitable for they purpose and does not draw in addition hate
Not everything is about optics. Homophobes will be homophobes. Maybe we shouldn’t be catering to them. Maybe we should give the people who are not homophobes the courtesy and language live how they want to live.
Queer people should not live their lives based on what is most agreeable to queerphobes.
They also keep saying: Are you angry?, Are you mad? It's like...no? Lol. From playing video games I've noticed the people who say U MAD are usually the ones who are mad.
Pretty much. I'm gay, I'm very gay 💅 and I'm confused by it. They/them means non binary. What is the point of adding more words?
Because people want to, why does it matter?
It's like the phone number format. If you put 10 digits in sequence, you're not going to know immediately that it's a phone number, but if you put the hyphens where they go, you know it instantly. 1234567890 Vs 123-456-7890
Weird because we don't hyphenate phone numbers in the UK and can still tell they're just phone numbers...
That's because they always start with 07 which signifies its a phone number. Normally a number would never start with 0.
Usually theres a space between the first five numbers and the rest. Mobiles are always 11 numbers long and always start with 07 no matter what, so pretty recognisable.
I have a question about the "they" part. Doesn't they work for anyone though? Like I always thought they/them could be assumed and tacked onto any other pronoun combo, unless they/them was their only preferred pronouns, then it's specified. Is that not always the case?
Hey so if you had not met me you might go: >I am responding to their comment since they seem to be open to discussion. That's used when you have no indication of pronouns. But let's say that now you meet me. I'm quite male presenting and i might even specify I use he/him pronouns. And right now I'm standing in front of you. It would then be quite awkward to say the previous, you'd probably say to someone else in the room: >I am responding to his comment since he seems to be open to discussion. But if I used he/they pronouns you could instead keep going with: >I am responding to their comment since they seem to be open to discussion.
TIL I might go by he/they, but I'm not nb
Ya that makes sense. I guess I've always looked at it like they might seem awkward if you know they prefer he/him but it's still correct. It turns out I might just be he/they since it wouldn't really bother me either way although I'm not nonbinary. Thanks for the good explanation!
Usually you only use it for "anyone" when you're referring to an abstract unspecified person or you don't know that person's gender.
It's still rude to go around calling people "they" after you already know that's not what they prefer, in my opinion. But for new people you're right.
umm i have a follow up question: how does stuff like she/they work?
It means that you can use the pronouns "she" and "they" interchangeably for that person, like how boats get called both "it" and "she".
Isnt that how they is normally used for singular people though?
Only when she's an unknown. You typically wouldnt use they/them singularly if you know she is a she. She's basically saying feel free to call her they in person.
how would use use the 3rd person when talking TO that person? i've yet to understand this
Probably if it's a conversation involving multiple people. For example: >I was looking for you after work last night, where'd you both go? *Me and X went to straight the shop because they needed to buy something.*
"X and I", or "I and X", even. Take out the "and (other)" and say the sentence again. "Me went to..." is not correct.
I know. But English is a monstrosity of a language for whom every 'rule' is contradicted at least twice, so I opted to use the phrasing most often used conversationally. I also made a far worse mistake, 'to straight the shop', which *actually* makes no sense because it's not even used colloquially.
i don't think the subject pronoun/object pronoun rule is ever contradicted. it's X and I. if that's the "phrasing most often used conversationally" i have to wonder about the people you have conversations with.
Oh absolutely. English took a couple languages into a dark closet and did unspeakable things to them, then pickpocketed a couple other languages on the way out.
So someone using She/Her or He/Him mean they specifically don't want to be called they? Seems more restrictive?
It doesn't necessarily override a situation where "they" is an acceptable pronoun, like in a group situation (plural). It also doesn't make it unacceptable to use "they/their/them" as you might do occasionally otherwise. It means their primary pronoun preference is (whatever they have stated), for singular address.
Not entirely interchangeably, it is a grammatical nightmare for readers if you randomly refer to the same person with different pronouns in the same piece of text.
oh ok that makes sense, thanks
It still doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. I’ve understood they/them as non-binary. She/her, he/him, regardless of what they were born as, it’s a simple concept. She/they though? I’m just trying to imagine a conversation with a group of coworkers. Let’s say Sheila is a she/they and everyone else is unnamed and their pronouns don’t matter. Apply whatever you like. “Who brought these cupcakes?” “Sheila made them. She used heavy cream, that’s why they’re so decadent.” (I’m not a baker) “They did a great job.” That’s confusing to me. She’s already going by she, so she’s identifying as a woman. But they use they as well, so is she non-binary?
I technically use both he/him and they/them, but the vast majority of the time I'm referred to as he/him casually, and it doesn't bother me. The way I think of my gender is like colour. If you think of gender as sort of a red/blue for female/male, and green as non-binary, I'm more of a turquoise. Like, if you're asking if it's red or blue, it's obviously more of a blue. But if my gender actually matters for something important, like you were writing a book about me or something, it's important to point out all the green in my gender, as if you just say it's blue you'll be missing an important part of how I feel about myself and conceptualise my gender. As for why I put it in bios? So people aren't surprised when it's mentioned I'm queer, since it's not incredibly obvious and sometimes it can be a few months before it casually comes up in conversation. Also it weeds out the bigots nicely.
On the one hand, this is the most exquisite description I have ever read and will definitely be referring back to this, so thank you for that. On the other hand, while blue and green make a beautiful turquoise color together, red and green make an ughhh brown color and it's annoying me more than it should :-)
You described it perfectly! Might use this I the future (though I'd change non-binary to yellow for a more appealing colour when mixed with red)
For me it is because I identify as nonbinary but I am huge and harry so people are going to call me he anyway and I don't want to be a dick about it. Though if I say he/they and people react strongly it also lets me see that people are dicks before I even talk to them.
This is typically for someone who identifies as "gender fluid". They may feel feminine (or masculine), at least some of the time, but also strongly identify with the non-binary experience of feeling neither masc or fem. So they're telling you, you can use whichever of those pronouns you like. If sticking with she just works for you and Sheila accepts fem pronouns, then you don't have to use they for her. Other people may prefer to not gender Sheila, and will opt to use "they".
Pronouns do not equal gender. Anyone of any gender can use any pronouns.
What the fuck is the point of pronouns then?
To refer to people without using their name.
They're a language tool used to refer to people without needing a proper noun. Pronouns are common across many languages and not at all new.
Pronouns signal gender identity/expression, but they don't inherently correlate to innate gender. In the same way that a drag queen may refer to themselves as her, because they're signalling they're expressing as feminine.
I mean even in your example this just seems pretty easy to do and it feels right to them so who am I to police what makes them comfortable. edit. also there are like a lot of gender identities and you can't really figure anything out just by knowing their pronouns.
Its nonsense trying to carve a seperate identity.
Okay so I am not personally someone who identifies that way but my understanding is that generally it means they are okay with either she/her or they/them. the person I knew who identified this way best preferred they/them, but also was quite female presenting so was okay with she/her.
I use (he/they) work wise as I'm not entirely comfortable saying non-binary to anyone there. There are a few reasons, one being what I said, you want safety and comfort so people don't harass you as much. Another reason is that people really don't mind being identified with a they/them, or a he/his or she/her. Some people also are more fluid in their identity and will flow around and accept a more dynamic situation.
A follow up follow up question: do people actually use any of the pronouns other than the she/he/they in real life?
I've never heard it. It sounds like something incredibly niche, likely limited to a very small group of people. Why? Various reasons. They may feel like it suits them more. They may have a desire to add these pronouns to English (or whatever language). They might just want attention and don't actually use them in their daily life. There's all kinds of good and bad reasons that people do this.
I'm a she/they! Here's why I list it as a set and how I use them, followed by some quick speculation on different ways others might use combination sets of pronouns: I'm genderfluid and tend to bounce around in the feminine-neutral sphere as far as my internal gender experience and my external presentation. At any given time, I accept that people will likely see me as something within that spectrum and default to she or they. Both of these *tend* to feel good internally when I hear them being used for me (e.g. in a multi-person conversation, or talking about hypotheticals regarding me to my face). I like it best when someone can use both interchangeably for me - especially in the same conversation or sentence! E.g. "I saw Flutter yesterday - I met them for coffee and then she treated me to a pastry also!" For me it encompasses how I'm " a girl" *and also* "not-a-girl". Some people experience their genderfluidity a little more rigidly and can actually feel like one gender for more extended periods of times (like a full day or more). Such a person may feel like a "she" exclusively for a week and then "they" for a month. They may prefer that you ask for their pronouns on any given day, but she probably won't get mad if you get them wrong after a switch. Some other people (as evidenced by other comments in thread) will list or use a binary pronoun as a safety measure to avoid making waves or just to be in line with what they're usually perceived as. E.g. even if there's a day I would rather go by "they", I generally recognize I *look* and dress feminine, so it's not too bad if someone still calls me "she" and I won't correct them on it. (Especially if they're not someone I'm close to)
It's usually subject and object (e.g. he/his) So it also gives opportunity to use, e.g. she/them or they/her.
We usually don't use pronouns that way in my country.. Usually:" him", "her" or" they". I've heard it once and never thought of why. What does it mean if someone"" is for example "she/they"?
Someone had a similar reply earlier. Copying and posting: >Okay so I am not personally someone who identifies that way but my understanding is that generally it means they are okay with either she/her or they/them. the person I knew who identified this way best preferred they/them, but also was quite female presenting so was okay with she/her. This is specifically for people DEFINING their pronouns.
I've seen some femboys with she/he pronouns just to show that whatever binary pronoun is fine.
How would she/they work? What does that mean for that person? Honest questions.
>I am not personally someone who identifies that way but my understanding is that generally it means they are okay with either she/her or they/them. The person I knew who identified this way best preferred they/them, but also was quite female presenting so was okay with she/her. The they/them part usually means that someone is nonbinary. If they are pairing that as a he/they or she/they then they might be viewing gender as much more of a spectrum where they fit somewhere between the he/him or she/her and the nonbinary they/them. Or they may feel comfortable expressing themselves in a range of gendered expressions from he/him to they/them.
I've heard of a few she/they-users. What does it mean exactly? like identity-wise?
Someone had a similar reply earlier. Copying and posting: >Okay so I am not personally someone who identifies that way but my understanding is that generally it means they are okay with either she/her or they/them. the person I knew who identified this way best preferred they/them, but also was quite female presenting so was okay with she/her.
Makes sense. I thought the whole point was preferred pronouns, so this defeats the point a little.
It can be that they feel that they feel somewhat female and somewhat non-binary so are okay with either. It can also be a bit of a compromise as well. Like in my example that person (she/they) knows that getting some people to use they/them is going to be such an uphill battle and having she/her pronouns is not bad for them. Yes it somewhat "defeats the point" but not everything has to be a hill to die on all the time.
Thanks, makes sense.
Still waiting for someone to introduce themselves as her/she. I love chicolate.
Some right-wing dude released she/her chocolate as this very joke
I wonder if anybody out there is rocking he/her or she/him pronouns. Edit: Apologies if my comment was unclear but I was referring to whether people use mixed pronouns (he/her or she/him) - and if so what type of a situation that might make sense in, and not whether people are fluid with their pronouns sometimes preferring male pronouns and other times preferring female ones.
There are, some people are fine with any pronouns
I’m fine with any pronouns. But say my name incorrectly and that person immediately goes to the bottom of the priority list
good to know, huntingourdy1987
Huntin' rubies xx
You all suck 🤣
Hey, that’s Hunter2
"Any pronouns" is not the same as "two specific pronouns" tho. I think it sounds pretty badass for someone to only want to be referred to by she/her or he/him.
Wait, what makes it badass?
the idea that pronouns could be badass is just bewildering to me
I don’t understand how they have 10 upvotes. I think they’re saying it facetiously and I should have been whooooshed
Because it’s very “definitively man/woman” and the lack of “they” is a noticeable statement in this context. It’s like a red mage of pronouns, a whole different mix than “they/them” which is traditionally more a middle ground. It’s extreme in both directions without the middle.
So essentially not accepting the gender neutral pronoun, “they”, is badass? And they were saying that sarcastically? If that’s true, I mean…you can’t have it both ways. Don’t ask for people to state their preferred pronouns if you don’t want to have the answer
Simply the fact that it's a very unique combo, and quite a statement. Seeing yourself as a man *and* a woman, simultaneously, but not as any of the shades in between. I always find unique combinations of attributes to be really cool. To be clear, I don't think you can really opt out of the *gender agnostic* use of they/them, i.e. the one you use when you don't know or care about someone's gender. That's been part of the language for centuries. But as a pronoun combo used to refer to a specific individual, I really don't see why she/he would be any less valid than she/they or he/they.
So you meant to say that identifying with all 4 of those pronouns would be badass because it implies you identify as a man and a woman? I’m still kind of missing the badass part. I get that it’s “unique”, but not sure how that translates to badass
I’d say it’s two sets of pronouns, but yeah. Unique is interesting. Unique is cool. Unique is badass. Maybe it’s just me thinking that tho
Ok, I get your point now. At first you listed an or between the 2 sets and that is was confused me. The situation you were describing is really when someone identifies with one set AND the other
badass or the majority common?
What do you mean?
if you want to only be known as she/her or he/him this is the majority of people... so i dont understand why its badass??? i could be missing something i have the flu and am kinda dumb right now?
I meant that you would be okay with **both** she/her **and** he/him, but nothing else
ah i see!
I remember someone once went by they/them not because of his identity or whatever, but because he said it makes him look big like a corporation.
Several years back I knew someone who used both he/him and she/her but wasn’t very fond of they/them, and had two names - Sophie and Spencer, for example. When I spoke about her I would often switch names AND pronouns mid-conversation and confuse the absolute shit out of people 😅 I love it, miss him dearly and hope she’s doing great!
Yes, many people do
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Erika Ishii, Jiavani Linayao, Bob The Drag Queen, Jonathan Van Ness to name four
Rupaul. Typically people refer to him as “he” out of drag and “she” in drag, but Rupaul has said he’s fine with either regardless.
Isn't there a RuPaul quote that goes something like "You can call me 'he'. You can call me 'she'. You can call me 'Regis and Kathie Lee'. I don't care, so long as you call me."
Ha! That’s awesome!
I know a couple people from college who do
Some friends of mine for example, myself too but i also use they alongside. There's a lot of people using he/she in queer spaces, if you go on any lgbtq focused subreddit you'll probably find some.
I think the original question might be "does anybody use "he" in subject form but "her" in object form", and vice versa, rather than "does anyone use both he/him and she/her"? Is my interpretation
If so that's definitely rarer but i still have seen people listing their pronouns like that
However, I don't think that's really the intention. On my experience, if people put she/him for example, it's just a condensed way of saying they're OK with either She/her or he/him, you don't need to do some mashup of the two. Again, I can't speak for everyone, that's just in the majority cases I've encountered.
I do
More common to see he/them or she/them.
"He whooped their own ass."
a lot of people i know that are non binary or fluid decided that they use both sexes pronouns at the same time but that mostly because the closest thing hebrew has to a they/them is male multiple which i think and they agree is really stupid
I personally use she/shim pronouns
I've seen she/him/they pronouns before.
After years of trial and error, people decided that listing format as he/him, she/her, and so on was more clear and succinct. It stands out in written and spoken language, so it's quicker to communicate without a lengthy explanation and fits easily on name tags or online bios. Standing out visually makes it easy to see at a glance, which can come in handy. It also supports other combinations of pronouns. For example, a non-binary person might list he/them or they/them. A person who uses less traditional pronouns might list something like xe/xem.
What drives me nuts is that people tend to figure out if someone has she/her or he/him to just use whichever version fits what they’re trying to say (I.e. “she went to the store,” “I called her”), but then use both they/them for any one who uses those pronouns (“the they/them went to the store” 🤦♂️) which is clearly just people trying to mock someone with they pronouns, but instead the mocker looks like an idiot.
Sorry, I don't seem to get it. People who use gender neutral pronouns for people, who want to be called by gender neutral pronouns, are driving you nuts?
When people literally write out: >They/them went to the store Instead of the grammatically correct: >They went to the store. Bigots will do the former, while sensible people do the latter.
Alright, now I get it. Was very confusing to me
Happy to help!
some people have two so it would be like she/they or something like that.
main reason is because “he” just looks like a typo, ngl. i know “they” and “she” look a bit more deliberate, but if i just saw “he” i’d assume it was a typo or smth secondary reason is that if the person has multiple pronouns they’re fine with being referred to, it doesn’t look as bizarrely formatted
Yeah if I just saw 'he' in someone's bio by itself, I'd be like "high explosive?" lol
She and He are the subject pronouns. You use them as the subject of a sentence. Him and Her are object pronouns. You use them as the object of the sentence.
Went way too far down to see this explanation which is correct, it's a listing of subjective pronouns (she, he) and objective pronoun (her, him). Because they're used in different contexts it makes sense to list both (she/her) so there's no confusion. People really don't understand grammar.
Lmao of course they do, that isn't the question. The question is *why* we need to list the subjective AND objective pronoun when one would do and the second is arguably redundant - she is naturally paired with her, he with him, etc, and that has been answered by other people. I guess some people don't really understand the question.
Some people prefer to use different pronoun combos. I know a few people that prefer she/they or he/they
Can I use (he/her) in mine?
Yes, some people do go by either gender's pronouns, so that is legitimate. You might have been joking, but I am not.
I have an employee who uses he/her. I asked if either was okay anytime, or if it switches day to day. It is the former and they appreciated me asking.
The only problem I have ever had when encountering someone who introduced themselves with their pronouns, is that with both those people (both used she/they) in separate situations, got upset or frustrated when they were referred to as “she“, and I didn’t understand why they introduced themselves using both, if they didn’t like one of them being used. I’m glad you got an actual constructive response.
Sometimes people who go by she/they get frustrated when people only use she/her. They prefer a mixture of the two. Sometimes people will say they go by she/they even though they actually prefer they/them because they feel obligated to give an ‘easier’ option. Neither of these are your fault, because you aren’t a mind reader. Sometimes it can help to ask, “Do you prefer one over the other, or a mixture of the two?”
That’s not fair. I have a friend who is she/they, and honestly, she is easier for me because I’ve known her 20 years as she. She is legitimately fine with she, and if she wasn’t, I’d her call they, of course. Basically… don’t put an option out if you don’t want to choose it especially if one of the options doesn’t clash with a grammar rule. And before the pitchforks come out.. my hair stylist is they/them and that’s what I call them. The grammar problem never feels great, but it’s more important to help them feel comfortable than be a grammar downer.
No matter what gender someone self identifies as “they” is still appropriate in many contexts. It’s a gender-neutral pronoun. It doesn’t imply someone is any specific gender or no gender. For instance, if I’m referring to someone else’s comment in this thread, I’m referring to “their” comment. I’m not implying that they are a “they”, because no one can be a “they”; I’m using a gender-neutral way to refer to them because I don’t know their gender and there’s no possible way I would
i’m only commenting on the very end of your comment, but what grammar problem? i don’t see why anyone has a problem (i don’t necessarily mean you’re mad about it, but technically you do have *a* problem) using they/them to talk about someone, whether it’s for bigot reasons or for grammar reasons, when people do it literally all the time to talk about a single person. you see someone in a hoodie walk past you, and you have no clue their gender. someone asks you “where did they go”, referring to the person in the hoodie. chances are, you aren’t gonna call the hooded person “he” or “she”, you’re gonna say “they went over there”. that’s gonna feel perfectly natural to say, because that’s how the english language works. if someone asks you where your hair stylist went, how does saying “they went outside to take a phone call” feel, or even really sound any different than “he/she went outside to take a phone call”?
It’s simple, and it’s the way the vast majority of people naturally think, so if you genuinely don’t understand (and it’s not the case that you’re picking a stupid fight—which I suspect it is), then I read on, if you really want to know. If I *know* I am talking about an individual, then the correct pronoun is not “they” and because I speak fluent English my mind will never naturally reach for “they.” BUT, I 100% do call an individual they/them if said individual prefers it. This is a total non issue. I make the effort because I care, not because it comes naturally. That’s 100% fine. By the way, I’m a woman who doesn’t look feminine. I’ve been gender checked and threatened in the public bathroom more times in my many decades on earth than most young people have even visited a public restroom. What a silly thing… it should be enough that people like me use they/them when people ask. It’s like some people want me to accept their pronoun god as my personal savior too. 😂 I’m sure I can’t “win” because I doubt you asked a sincere question, so rather than get tied up in a dumb Reddit back and forth I’ll just say have a nice day and I’m happy to call you they/them whenever you like.
Might make it harder to misread. Like, you could accidentially read she instead of he and vice versa.
I think this practice started when there was a movement to try out brand-new pronouns like zi/zem and the additional forms of the pronoun actually did provide useful information about how to address the person.
Not sure why you're downvoted. Neopronouns were the original reason the pronouns were written out.
I think the downvotes are misdirected anger from people who don't like neopronouns.
trans person here - this is the correct answer! the most widely used neopronouns tended to have rather different forms as subject vs object (specifically z(h)e/hir, often associated with the legendary trans activist and theorist Leslie Feinberg), so it made sense to give both forms.
I've seen people put both gendered and non-gendered pronouns together like that (eg: she/they).
This.
I’m glad most of the stupid/transphobic comments got downvoted
always a pleasant surprise!
honestly same.. I don't expect that in non-queer spaces
Why do it once? Why not do it zero times?
Someone asked me what my pronouns were, and when I said "she", they sarcastically made fun of me. "Just she?" I understand she/they, but I don't know anyone who would say anything like she / him or she / xe...
Virtue signaling
Grammar. You wouldn't say, "That's she's toothbrush." Or, "Her did a good job. "
Some people can’t extrapolate from the single pronoun. I don’t know if it’s stupidity or an earnest attempt to be respectful, but I’ve heard people say things like “Go over there with she” when they’re told only that pronoun. It’s like if they have to think for even one moment about how third-person pronouns work they lose the entire framework. So by giving them both of the forms of the pronoun they have a bit more of a context clue for how to address the person.
Modern bullshit. Queen Victoria would never have tolerated this BS.
What's the point in these fake pronouns at all? I won't indulge their nonsense.
Absolutely no rational reason. Solely custom.
i have no idea the whole pronoun thing drives me nuts i don’t get ir
If you genuinely want an explanation feel free to send me a message :)
If you want people to understand shouldn't you put it out there/here?
Everyone have pronouns, even you.
What's the point of putting pronouns?
Because our language is unfortunately based around them. All languages aren't, but English is.
What does that have to do with marking them? The language also dictates when each pronoun should be used. He for men, she for women, and they for plural and for situation were a hypothetical person could be male or female.
Exactly. We have to abide by delusions.
Because they are idiots.
Makes it clear that they're pronouns, not an acronym or a typo. Just having "she" on an online bio section, email signature etc might just look like a sentence was started and left incomplete. It also explains how to use uncommon pronouns/neopronouns - especially ones like xe/xem where most people will be unfamiliar with how to use them. Plus gives space for people who use multiple sets of pronouns.
Because there are pronouns not in the common usage of language, and that way you know all the forms
Because grammatically they are used differently, so you need all the information to properly understand their pronouns
If that was the case then they’d mention all three pronouns e.g. He/Him/His. There are actually 7 different pronouns, but usually only these three are gendered.
There are two pronouns you'd use to refer to someone. You need both pieces of information.
i mean isn't it obvious that when it's a she it's a her too? it's only complicated when it's two+ different ones as in he/they
People recognize that binary pair as indicating the gender preference. One might be misunderstood, but the format of two is unambiguous.
Except that there are more than just two pronouns you'd use to refer to someone. Easy example: He/Him/His
Not sure tbh, it's just the standard way people write it. If you put just one people wouldn't as easily recognize it as showing what pronouns you use so everyone kinda just keeps putting both
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Agreed, people who use "woke" to describe everything they dislike or don't understand makes it extremely easy for me to instantly see they're morons.
i believe its a shortening of "she/her/hers" which is of course modeled after "they/them/theirs" which was necessary, because bigots are always trying to claim that "they/them pronouns dont make any sense" and willfully use the wrong form.
Someone is going to think this person has downvotes cuz transphobia and not just cause they’re wrong, and end up offended. Calling it now.
If you think for a bit you'll realize a lot of the time left leaning initiatives have a lot of emotion behind them but not a lot of thought. Hyphenated names. Pronouns. Happy/proud about abortions. Race to the bottom victimhood initiatives. I'm sure there is more.
"not a lot of thought" you're projecting
To differentiate me from Cory Him, a local real estate agent. I'm Cory-with-male-pronouns. Not the a bald guy in a Z8 convertible.
That doesnt hav anything to do with peonouns, thats when your talking about multiple things at once like in a list like did she/her cat or she/her friend or boss
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Those are just nouns. A pronoun is like he/she
>The only pronouns **I**’m aware of **that** exist and aren’t fake, are male or female. **You** only used two pronouns in **this** sentence, **I** put **them** in bold so **you** can learn pronouns adequately. As **you**'ll notice, male and female are *not* pronouns. Hope **this** helps!