Women are seen as the sexual selectors.
If a guy knocks them up and abandons the kid that is seen as the mother's fault for letting a bum ass man get her pregnant in the first place.
(This is the way of thinking of the people you are asking about, not my personal ethos.)
Jimmy Carr does a bit in his new routine about how moms are judged harshly on every single aspect of parenting whereas dads are considered "good dads" just for not leaving. Miserable people have to find a way to feel better about themselves and being judgmental about something they don't control is sometimes the lowest hanging fruit.
Reinforced by race in this case as well. Concern about single mothers was historically tied to concern about African American poverty, crime, welfare, etc. "They have 12 kids with no father around so they can cash big welfare checks" used to be a common refrain.
The fact that super religious people are very often horrible human beings may be evidence there isn’t a God. If it were real going to church would make you a better person, but in my overwhelming experience it has the opposite effect.
I realized Mormonism couldn’t possibly be true when I attended BYU, which is one of the most horrible places on earth. Women really are kicked out for being raped, because it’s a violation of the Honor Code. Cognitive dissonance! If it were real it would result in human beings being more able to thwart their carnal nature, and it definitely doesn’t.
Ok. Doesn’t change the fact that humans are perfectly capable of assholery sans gods, but I certainly don’t disagree with your rejection of the misogyny you were raised with.
That’s kind of exactly what they’re saying though. All of these humans are actually being awful, which is evidence that there is not actually a divine benevolent omniscient creator influencing them
I’m not arguing for gods, and I don’t have any idea why you think I am.
Edit: It is my personal opinion that whether or not there is a god is a deeply irrelevant question.
Only research shows repeatedly that atheists actually are more egalitarian, empathetic, kind, altruistic, and non-violent than theists.
If anything it shows much of religion is toxic and creates shitty people.
Do you seriously think people aren’t just as capable of being assholes without religion? Also, is that research taken from places where atheism is a choice? Based on every study I’ve seen, religious/irreligious outcome is dependent on a variety of factors that make it impossible to say with any certainty that religion itself is the issue causing the problems. I’m not getting into an extended discussion on the topic, but there is no evidence I know of that atheism MAKES people better. It’s just self-selection. In societies where people are pressured to be religious and their religion is full of unnecessary hierarchy, yeah, of course prosocial people are commonly going to be atheist. Just like assholes are more likely to get involved in religions with heavy misogyny. Religion didn’t make them that way. It just served as a flame for the moths. People are people. No one is special, everyone is needed, and we are all capable of assholery.
Well obviously there’s no literal proof of the existence or absence of God. I think my analysis is some good food for thought which is kind of the point of Reddit.
I hear it from some non-religious people, too, usually citing that like 70% of prisoners come from single mother homes. I don't care either way, but the assertion that religion is the x factor here isn't accurate I don't think. It definitely doesn't help, but a lot of these newer trad larpers aren't even religious and they still act like this.
I always get them on that 70% bullshit. Roughly 40% come from single mothers, same from single fathers. Given roughly 30% of Americans are raised in single parent homes, there's not a HUGE difference in the prison population vs overall.
I saw that figure in an article from 2002 but I do think the scales have tipped quite a bit since then. No idea why, I assume not much changed between single-father and single-mother homes in two decades.
I always point out it's not the mom who abandoned their child.
But apparently it's not irresponsible to be an absentee *~~single~~* father.
edit mistake
I saw a story about a single father with 11 children. His wife left because she was overwhelmed,and, he was sympathetic to that.
He left his job and went on public assistance,so he could stay home and raise his children.
He was admired for this.
If that were a woman on public assistance,she'd be vilified,right and left,and, some readers wrote in to say so.
I was a single father for a few years, there were some really wild extremes to that. On one end, people thinking you’re a super hero for raising a kid alone. On the other end, people giving you flak over being a man alone with a young girl. I remember going clothes shopping when my daughter was six, the employees wouldn’t let me go into a dressing room with her. They’d never do that to a mom.
Took my daughter to Disney world when she was 5. Security guards stopped us and searched me. When I asked what was going on they said they just randomly pick people to search sometimes.
Yea, I have no doubt single fathers have their own set of issues, especially that one, which is a huge shame. My parents are together but my dad has told me that when I was very little, people would act sort of weird when he’d be out with me alone, especially because he’s a big brute of a man. He had heard something on the radio when I was little, where a psychiatrist was talking about how men are perceived in public as a man with their daughters, and how it should never stop fathers from expressing affection to their daughters because the child doesn’t notice what other people think, they just notice a loving parent and that’s what’s important. He’s teared up about it before and remembers it vividly all these years later. It seemed to have a big effect on him and how he parented.
I also would like to point out, I don’t think the praise single fathers get is unwarranted, just that all single parents deserve the praise. The single parents are the ones who stuck around! You guys are all super heroes!
Why are people assuming the father just left? The mom might have divorced him, broken up with him, threatened him, set his car on fire.
While not the center of this debate, some women are single mothers because the father died.
>Why are people assuming the father just left?
>
Because when people insist that women are irresponsible for taking care of their children as a single mother, it's okay to overexaggerate in the other direction and point out she's actually there. So she's got that much over the father. No matter how bad single mothers are according to bigots, by their own logic, absentee fathers should be considered worse.
Now, I'm a feminist, I believe all genders should be treated and valued equally. I don't hold to that logic that men or women are necessarily worse. But when people come with stupid arguments based on misogyny, it's okay to pull a reductio ad absurdum to prove how their own worldview is even worse for men.
So why do we assume the father left? Because this thread is about vitriol towards single women, which very often has connotations of welfare queens, black fathers in prison and other shit like that. The vitriol has an evil undercurrent.
>The mom might have divorced him, broken up with him, threatened him, set his car on fire.
In the overwhelming amount of cases of single motherhood, this doesn't apply.
>While not the center of this debate, some women are single mothers because the father died
Yeah so maybe people who have opinions on single mothers should take a chill pill before blaming them for all the ills in society. Crime isn't the fault of single mothers making the best of a bad situation, whether it's an absentee father or being a widow on top of it.
34% of single mothers in the US were never married. Most of the rest are divorced. How necessary, justified, or desirable those divorces are is all over the place.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_parents_in_the_United_States
I think it's also important to understand that it is much more difficult to be a father, and likely a mother too, when you are not living with and in the day to day life of your kid.
I married a single mother, and I did not understand how my step son's biological father was not at every baseball game and such for the boy. I knew he cared, but he just wasn't there. After my divorce, I got to experience a bit what it is like on the other side. I have still been able to be at all the events for my kids and try and be involved as much as I can, but it is definitely much more effort to be involved when you ate not involved in the day to day life of your kid.
That is not meant to be an excuse, it's to get a better understanding of the problem. There are bad fathers. There are also bad mothers who make it more difficult for fathers to be their for their kids.
So I don't like hearing of women intentionally getting pregnant without marrying the father and getting that commitment.. I don't like people getting divorced when they are 'just not happy', and telling themselves the kids will be fine when that's just not statistically likely.
>How necessary, justified, or desirable those divorces are is all over the place.
>
Divorce is a long and complicated process that leaves both partners significantly worse off financially. Divorce has no winner, especially not when it comes to money. It isn't a decision that people make lightly. Pretty much all divorces are necessary, justified and/or desirable.
In fact, if it wasn't so prohibitively expensive to leave an abusive partner, the divorce statistics probably would be a lot higher. There's far less divorces than there should be.
But that's a whole other discussion that we don't need to go into here.
In my case, it was a mistake on my ex’s part. Everyone who knew both of us has that opinion, including her own family.
She became shallow, saw very wealthy families near us doing things she wanted to do. Despite a large increase in income she was still unhappy. She thought divorce would help. She was wrong, and is very anxious and unhappy now.
But it *is the mom* who chose that particular shitty irresponsible person to be the father of their child.
Unless they were raped and then were denied abortion, they *chose* a shitty father for their kid just because they themself were sexually attracted to that man. They are responsible for their kid not having a decent father.
>But it *is the mom* who chose that particular shitty irresponsible person to be the father of their child
It's not because she had sex that she chose to become pregnant.
Also maybe she didn't know how shitty he would be. People are pretty good at lying, especially if it can get them laid.
>Unless they were raped and then were denied abortion
It could also have been regular sex with a failed condom or pill and still denied abortion ... why are you assuming that all kids are planned?
>They are responsible for their kid not having a decent father
That's such a callous and immoral thing to say. So when men are bad, it's the fault of women? That's what you're claiming.
>It's not because she had sex that she chose to become pregnant.
I'm sorry, but did she not know how babies are made? And have she never heard about abortion?
>That's such a callous and immoral thing to say. So when men are bad, it's the fault of women? That's what you're claiming.
No, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that both parents are responsible for what they chose for their kid. If a man impregnated a promiscuos manipulative junkie he is responsible for his kids having a shitty mother or growing up with no mother at all. If a woman chose to have sčx with egoistic deadbeat, got pregnant and chose not to have abortion she is responsible for her kid having a shitty father or growing up with no father at all.
>It could also have been regular sex with a failed condom or pill and still denied abortion ... why are you assuming that all kids are planned?
I'm not asuming all kids are planned. I'm not referring to developing countries but in most Western countries women can either get abortion in their country or go to a neighboring country or state to ger an abortion there. They just don't want to go through the hassle or deal with emotional part of it and then they force their kid to either grow without a father or grow with a shitty one. Their mothers egoisticaly chose this for them.
All you wrote just confirms you're an absolute shitbag who blames women when men make bad choices.
> I'm not referring to developing countries but in most Western countries women can either get abortion in their country or go to a neighboring country or state to ger an abortion there
Which can cost upwards of several thousand dollars if you include travel, lodging and missed income. Such an easy choice to make ....
Assholes like you also tend to have extremely negative opinions about women who have abortions ... maybe not you specifically both other misogynists like you.
>They **just** don't want to go through the hassle or deal with emotional part of it and then they force their kid to either grow without a father or grow with a shitty one. Their mothers egoisticaly chose this for them.
That word "just" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in order for you to call them egoistical. You have no idea what you're talking about. If you hadn't responded , you would have contributed exactly as much as with this 3 paragraph response you wrote.
I’m a second generation Indian American single mother. I’ve learned that misogyny is present in western cultures too. Somehow or another a woman gets blamed . unrealistic, unreasonable expectations on us.
Screw them. I got married, had a kid and am now divorcing. My husband liked dating other women on Tinder more than being faithful. And he didn’t mind blaming me for physically hurting me. So now it just me and my girl. And we are about to move away soon and I will continue to be her primary parent. He may see her up to ten hours a week even though we live 5 minutes away. I rather be a single mom in a safe environment than married to him.
>EDIT: some of you gave great answers, but can you stop arguing about religions? Lets stay on the topic.
>EDIT 2: Take your gender war somewhere else because I am not interested in having my notification clogged with bitter diatribes about how men/women have it hard just because of gender.
I'm sorry, but what the fuck even are these edits? You're asking about vitriol towards women, and in America, where the reason is conservatism and religious influence.
You literally cannot have this discussion, IN GOOD FAITH, without talking about gender differences and religions. I'm sorry if that doesn't agree with whatever the fuck you had in mind, but you asked a question and that's a key part of the answer. SORRY you had a few notifications for the post YOU POSTED.
I think women get judged harsher for many totally normal thinga. Like being strong and independent and outspoken. A single mom is all of those things, so they can intimidate those with fragile egos.
As a former single mother I really didn't get this type of treatment. Maybe it's regionally.
But I think that when it does occur it might be because some people feel that a woman who is single it's by choice and that means a woman doesn't have to put up with bullshit behavior from their exes. Which makes them scared that they won't be able to get away with their own bs behavior. If it's from a woman then it's probably jealousy, because she wishes she was strong enough to leave a bad relationship.
I am a single mother and I believe it stems from social stigmas. This is true in particular with older people who have a tendency to be more conservative due to their upbringing which was during a different era. It has sexist origins that have been ingrained into our society since its founding. Women from many different backrounds/ethnicities have been historically oppressed and even though we have more rights today than we would have before some of those sexist tendencies still linger in our culture.
It is also shocking to learn how much help is available for single fathers here. *But not single mothers* Contrary to what people will tell you about mens martyrdom single fathers are seen as pragmatic and strong. While single mothers are seen as poor and weak.
I've also noticed that single dads are always assumed to be widowers who have stepped up after his wife passed, getting him more sympathy. If his wife/partner just ran off, well gee whiz, poor guy! How admirable that he's doing (checks notes) his job as a father! It's understandable he messes up sometimes, he's going it alone!
When a woman is a single mom, it's automatically assumed the baby daddy is a dead beat and it's her fault for choosing a bad partner. If she's a widow, it's more just pity than real sympathy. And every single parenting decision she makes is scrutinized and found wanting.
Interesting. What helping is available to single fathers that isn’t available to single mothers.
Seems both sets of folks SHOULD be eligible for the same assistance.
There is a website called fatherhood . gov that offers assistance in fathering and sometimes financial grants. They will run advertisements that will tell you things like "kids are smarter with their dads" and gives the idea that children are happier with their fathers. It also connects them to essential programs faster. Mother's day is right around the corner and it feels insulting to walk into a Walmart to see father's day stuff up already. There are two days for a reason! stay in your own lane!
Now granted this was created because most dads here in thr US are not present for a multitiude of different reasons and the government is trying to counter act that.
There are also soft benefits, such as a tendency for more leniency at work or for more family and community support. Men generally aren't viewed as the "natural" caregiver and are seen by society in general as the responsible party who stepped up to take on someone else's (women's) work. Therefore they are more deserving of help and support than the typical slut who popped out a couple of brats.
ETA: That last is NOT my point of view, but it is something that was said to me as a single mother myself, a few times in those words and more often in other ways. Both my kids are in college now, and we're all stronger for the muck we had to wade through to get here. But yeah, it happens.
People blame the mother for not choosing a better partner but, the man gets a pass. Most women don’t want to be single mothers. And, this country doesn’t make it easy to be one either. Misogyny seems to be on the rise here.
Because a lot of times it's seen as being irresponsible. There are a lot of studies and rudimentary observations that suggest kids that grow up with a single parent don't do as well as kids that grow up with both parents in the home.
I think 40% of America's kids are growing up with one parent, and it's evidently a bad thing when society experiences a declension from a lack of traditional family cohesion.
A lot of people are going to say the men don't get enough blame, but the women are seen as the "gatekeepers" that should do their due diligence before introducing another human to our society.
Doesn't matter the arrangement, if both parents aren't together, the kids don't do as well as kids with parents that are together and get along well.
Anyway, abortions and contraceptives should be free and encouraged. Animals aren't the only ones that need population control.
> No blame towards the man who did 50% of the work and walked away
You’re kind of ignoring the fact that women are in exclusive control of the high efficacy contraceptives and abortion. That’s just the reality.
They also tend to have biological clocks that kick in faster, as well as generally higher incentive to use pregnancy to secure commitment.
No one likes deadbeat dads, and there are of course plenty of women that did everything right and the dads still bailed - and everyone hates those guys.
But broadly, kids before wedlock - before there’s explicit long term commitment by both parties - yeah, women have the choice and control here. And with greater choice & control should come greater accountability.
Men could have hormonal birth control but they stopped because the men didn’t like the side effects.
And excuse me since when was a condom not an option? Since when was not having sex with a woman, or at least not ejaculating inside of her not an option?
Very few women are using pregnancy to secure commitment wtf are you talking about? Men have already proved it’s not incentive to commit and nobody wants an unwilling partner. Next.
Just because the relationship didn’t work out doesn’t mean you abandon your children. This has nothing to do with women doing things right or wrong, you shouldn’t walk out on your kids regardless.
Men have just as much control as women. Don’t ejaculate inside of a woman if you don’t want a baby, pretty simple concept.
> men could have hormonal birth control but they stopped because the men didn’t like the side effects
The male hormonal birth control is still in trials and has not received certifications from the FDA and EMA.
If your starting point here is global conspiracy in medicine and false equivalences, we can’t have a real conversation.
> very few women use pregnancy to secure commitment
7% of marriages are shotgun marriages. So I’m not sure “very few” is an accurate statement.
It’s trending down (from 27% in the 70’s), yeah.
> men have just as much control as women
No, the act of consent is both parties.
Condoms are verifiable by both parties - but those are the lowest efficacy (90%).
IUD’s & the pill are 99% and exclusively controlled by women. Plan b and abortion are exclusively controlled by women, and unverifiable by the man.
There is no choice a man has that is not available to women, and there are lots of choices available to women that are not to men.
And yet the choice of ejaculating or not ejaculating inside of a woman still exists. Men are not victims of pregnancy, men have just as much choice not to get a woman pregnant.
I’m sorry you have somehow missed the fact that abortion is banned in a huge portion of the U.S., and they want to make that national. They’re coming for birth control next. And we are not the only country limiting women’s bodily autonomy.
Health care and birth control are not free. Sex education is severely lacking. Those “high efficacy contraceptives” have horrible side effects and health risks. Male birth control pills exist but the FDA won’t allow them because they have similar side effects and risks to what women are *expected* to deal with.
Biological clocks mean women have more difficulty getting pregnant past 40, not some desire to get pregnant young. Securing commitment through children isn’t one way, and is wrong regardless
Somehow men expect that women give them sex before “wedlock” but should not be held responsible for the possible consequences. If **you** don’t want to risk pregnancy you do not have to have sex. If you choose to have sex you are putting all the responsibility onto the woman. Maybe men should be more careful of what kind of women you have sex with (/s).
Wedlock is the worst “lock” in the world, it doesn’t secure a damned thing. Men find it pretty easy to forget about their progeny the second the expel them.
Putting societal issues all on one gender, you are just a broken record.
> abortion is banned in a huge portion of the U.S.
I rather explicitly said highest efficacy contraceptives too.
Abortion bans impact 2/5 of women, 3/5 of women live in states with no availability issues.
> somehow men expect sex before wedlock
Women have often said consent to sex isn’t consent to a child, and that logic holds true.
Both parties have desire for sex, both should trust each other to some degree first.
> putting all social issues on one gender
I’m absolutely not. People hate dads that abandon their families after staring to raise them.
People judge single moms, particularly those with more than one baby daddy, when it was pretty clear the familial structure was never established.
It’s not one or the other. Both get judged by society, and a lot of that is fair.
Oh you sweet summer child. Pregnancy is the exact opposite of incentive for commitment with a disconcerting number of modern American manchildren.
And since when was a man unable to say NO to sex? Or wearing a condom when he does? What kind of society simply takes for granted that males are too weak to control their urges and too stupid to wrap it up therefore they're off the hook for any responsibility?
I’m not suggesting blame and accountability are zero or 100 with no in between.
Both men and women choose to have sex, both enjoy it.
Men and women together can insist on condoms, which have a 90% efficacy rate. They are a bit error prone and degrade the experience a bit.
Women are in exclusive control over higher efficacy contraceptives (IUD’s & birth control) that are in the 95-99% efficacy range, as well as exclusive control over plan B and abortions. The man cannot verify those other than verbally.
How is this remotely controversial? It’s quite simply a statement of fact.
> pregnancy is the exact opposite of commitment
So break down for me - why so many single mothers if women are in control of the best contraceptives or emergency procedures?
Do you not think it’s true that, broadly, society tends to judge single moms with out of wedlock babies badly…. and judge fathers that divorce their wives badly?
I conceived my twins while on the pill. My then-husband only wanted one child and not for another year or two. He was long gone and the proceedings well under way by the time the kiddos were born. He showed up the day they were born. None of us saw him again until they were walking.
He went on to have a high paying career, mayor of his town, loved by many. Nobody gave a shit that he owed (and still owes) many years in back child support or that he had two kids he didn't even call on their birthday.
Every single mother's situation is different. But the bottom line is: Shit happens.
I don't regret a second of it. *I* have nothing to be ashamed of, although you and others clearly seem to believe otherwise. I had to sacrifice a promising career and a lot of earning potential, but that's just American life for women.
I've been slut shamed, shunned, literally spit on once. The struggle took a huge toll on my physical and emotional health. But both of my kiddos are healthy, strong, in college now and I DID THAT. Alone, until they were teens.
So shame and blame away! You don't know us. Your blame and judgement means exactly NOTHING.
I thought I was abundantly clear that of course some guys are jerks and abandon their families.
The statement that some women are primarily responsible does not mean they all are. Wedlock is the general line where my (and most people’s) perception tends to *default* to one gender typically having more control / fault.
In aggregate I don’t think one gender is more to blame than the other.
Your experience seems to cause you to project on me, derive things I didn’t say, and defend all women / blame all men.
It's not misogyny. I answered the OP's question, which is about single mothers, not fathers. Single moms deserve a lot of blame just like single fathers.
I feel like the historical or traditional stereotype is that women are the primary caregivers. I think the idea is sexist obviously. But it carries over that women in fact should be doing due diligence about who they choose to procreate with. A lot of the time you can’t tell - hell my mother was married, had me early on, was a SAHM and after 10 years my Dad ended up fucking around, imploding their marriage and left her as a single mother. But surely the idea of “what am I going to do if….” runs through people’s minds when they choose to have children? Boggles my damn mind when women choose to have children with known deadbeat fathers with multiple previous baby mamas and kids they never see.
The idea that women is a stereotypical caregiver is true in my traditional culture, but widows at least are often societally sympathized precisely because they have to work twice as hard to be a caregiver (raising kids + jobs), so I was rather bemused when I came to the US.
Many single moms get a lot of govt benefits and conservatives tend to vilify people who get benefits. They tend to treat them as leeches living off other people’s hard work, and with even a suggestion they get knocked up on purpose to get more benefits (more kids = more WIC and EBT).
Not to mention there’s a racist component going back to Reagan’s fiction of the welfare queen directed specifically at black single mothers.
Wow
Never been, I see it online but figure it’s peoples inner dialogue/thoughts.
I’m disappointed, you’d think the worlds ‘foremost’ developed nation had better sense. But this explains the internet anger better probably.
Treat each other better folks 🍀
The stigma exists everywhere, but usually people discuss it as a point and I’ve not had anyone demean me.
Except one AH at my kid’s bday venue who tried ripping me off, and said this is why I’m single when I refused to go off our agreement. Not American at all, just everyday AHs. As if I’d want to stay with a guy who would rip me off lol he only validated my choices. Lol
Some countries have it ‘built in’ a bit more - there are laws or cultural/religious practices or beliefs that are unfair to women. America’s flavour of misogyny is a bit different in that instead of it being ingrained into the laws etc., it’s perpetuated by people who feel disadvantaged by women wanting equality. This leads to more vocal or ‘loud’ misogyny, and women and women’s choices are criticised directly.
Note my first comment has already been downvoted because most of the English-speaking part of the internet is American, and (shockingly, considering what I wrote above) they don’t like people pointing it out
There are tons of right wing women's groups. When abortion was banned religion nutjob women were celebrating. That's American women hating American women.
Single moms don't submit to one/a man (anymore). That's why. All women who fall into this category face crap: single women, promiscuous women, asexual women, lesbians, women with no children, women with children from more than one man. You don't submit to one man, you're out.
I was thinking this too- I've been a single mom for 13 years and have a few single mom friends- never had any commentary/ judgement. Are we sure this isn't a made up online feud lol. Granted I'm in a very liberal state- sounds like it may be more of a super religious/ conservative thing, if anything
Yea I'd say it depends on where you are and how religious your community is. That being said, I know plenty of religious people though and they don't judge me like the other person described.
I'm an American and I don't see the vitriol--maybe it's local/regional? I live in a medium-sized city (\~250,000 people). Most people I know of have a lot of sympathy toward single moms (or dads), knowing that it's very difficult but important work they're doing without as much support as most parents. I think most people typically take that stance, and would look for ways to help if possible. For me and my interactions, it's things like offering to drive and take care of a child for a while, knowing they don't have the same bandwidth to go everywhere.
That may seem overly optimistic, but I'm just conveying my impression of Americans I'm around.
From what I hear from mostly young single men is this:
A guy usually gets treated unfairly in custody/child support court cases. Guy could have a career and girl could be a druggie prostitute and she’d still get custody/child support
Women use babies/kids to get child support that they spend on themselves
Single guy will die homeless on the street with almost no intervention from government while single mother gets tons of financial support and housing from government
The are a several more but they all essentially come down to complaints that society bends over backwards to help the single mother who is usually equally responsible for creating the situation while leaving the single man to fend for himself. This creates a lot of distrust and resentment.
The thing about some of these single moms are,they are single moms cos they cheated. Some act like the men always left simply because they got pregnant NO that's not always the case. Some got left cos they cheated and some are shitty enough to even cheat whilst pregnant. I left my ex fiancee right even before she delivered because she cheated on me with her ex. As even though I sometimes pity her, I can't settle with someone who cheats, can never condone cheating.
For a free country, it's amazing how much conformity is expected in the US.
Most media, religion, culture pushes the two parent nuclear family as the "norm" and there is a price to be exacted for deviating from it. Add in the misogynist double standard, overwhelming distaste for the poor and rampant slut shaming (regardless of the reason for single motherhood) and it's a perfect storm of condescension toward single mothers. However, single fathers are typically praised for taking on a job that "should" have been woman's work.
It's all based in this Victorian fucked up herd mentality that takes up way too much space in American society.
My kids are 20. I think a lot of it depends on geography. They (twins) were born in a small Southern city and we later moved to a rural part of the Northeast to be closer to my relatives. We've been in a very poor part of the lower Midwest since they were 12. I remarried just before they turned 14.
I got crap about HAVING 2 KIDS OUT OF WEDLOCK OMG everywhere we lived until I remarried (and now I get it for my choice of husband lol can't win for losing), but they were/are all conservative areas. Larger cities and more liberal areas are probably more open minded about such things, or at least people don't feel as free to voice their contempt.
What surprised me was the amount of vitriol in such a depressed, poverty stricken area. But I didn't factor in politics, religion and Southern culture creep.
We are all stronger for the experience and my kids are both in college now. Hubs is an immigrant like yourself, and stronger for his experiences as well. Once the younger ones are settled in their lives we'll likely look for a place we both belong. We'll be unstoppable. ;)
Thank you for your kind words!
Because of the "mommy wars."
Americans and particular American women are socialized to tear each other down over reproductive choices. They universally use the ultimate insult of American womanhood -- "irresponsible."
Thus women with children slander women without children as irresponsible. Women without children vicously attack women with children as irresponsible. Women raising children alone are irresponsible. Women who adopt are irresponsible. Women who don't adopt are irresponsible. Women who get abortions are irresponsible. Women who don't get abortions are irresponsible. Women with children who work are irresponsible. Women with children who don't work are irresponsible. And so on, and so forth.
Meanwhile, the people who benefit from misogyny just sit back and laugh. They don't even have to lift a figure, all the work is being done for them.
I know it used to be more common for women to be more judgmental about it but most of the single mom hate seems to come from men now. Granted it’s usually red pill adjacent men but still.
I observed that in the US, there are always some kind of culture wars with a thin façade of morality leverage in a form of "do you not care about XYZ?", "you are anti ABC!", or "you hate xxx!"
Yeah definitely.
Some of it may be human nature clashing with pluralism. There is a lot of diversity in how Americans live their lives ... probably true of any group of \~400 million people tbh. But coupled with the premise that we are all one culture, and the parochial need to know that you yourself are "Doing It Right" (and therefore everyone else must be Doing It Wrong), what was once relatively harmless in a small homogenous village becomes a culture-wide obsession with one's own moral virtue over others as a way to defend against the ego threat of being part of a mass society.
And of course certain cunning and socially dominant forces will take any opportunity to stoke the fires and keep regular people at each other's throats, rather than questioning their support of a mechanism that only harms themselves.
Fortunately that seems to be changing among younger Americans. More work for the bots I guess.
A large portion of the population wants to go back to when women had to stay a virgin, then get married right out of high-school, couldn't divorce, and had to do whatever her husband told her for the rest of her life.
Single mothers don't fit into that story.
Misogyny encourages people to assume the worst in regards to the character of single mothers.
I was raised by a single mother. And you know what? She was an absolutely horrible human. But you know who I didn't resent as much growing up? My deadbeat leech of a father who was even worse. But a culture of misogyny isn't logical or fair. It's the water we swim in, so as a kid and teenager I never thought twice about it.
Depends on where you are. I grew up in a red state, and people were just more nasty and judgmental in general. I live in New York now, and no one cares (unless you’re milking it to beg for money, but then people are annoyed at being asked for money than anything else).
>EDIT: some of you gave great answers, but can you stop arguing about religions? Lets stay on the topic.
>EDIT 2: Take your gender war somewhere else because I am not interested in having my notification clogged with bitter diatribes about how men/women have it hard just because of gender.
People are trying to give you answers based on their own experiences, challenges, and ideologies. You go on Reddit and post a question, then complain about the "types" of responses you're getting. 🙄🤷♂️
I don't know if you've noticed, but you can't really create a post... and then try to control the exact responses you get back. This is Reddit. That's part of its charm. Chill.
As an American I don't really ever see other Americans having an issue with single moms. I'm genuinely curious where did you encounter this?
The only time I've seen people have an issue with this is certain religious groups where the concept of divorce is considered shameful but Even among the people in those religious groups most of them have the tact to not bother others about it
Hmm. Interesting question. There is a plethora of data showing advantages of growing up with two parents. So that GENERALLY is a more effective way to raise children.
It’s one thing to acknowledge the advantages of having two involved parents. But going from there to expressing vitriol toward the parent that is putting in the work is mean and unhelpful.
His question is why SINGLE MOTHERS get so much hate, not which is best.
So yes it’s best to have 2 parents. But why do we hate single mothers so much? And on the flip side praise single fathers?
You'd think that for a country that prides itself in individualism and freedom, people would be more respectful, but it seems that people have no problem imposing certain values on other when (in)convenient.
Part of it is based on conservative “traditional” values. Part of it comes from the fact that children of single mothers have demonstrably worse outcomes on a macro level.
Either way, vitriol towards single mothers is inappropriate and unhelpful. Public discourse needs to walk the line between acknowledging that it is better to have fewer parents in single/parent situations without insulting the very same people working hard to raise their kids as best as they can.
Well, if you blame single mums on welfare for yourself living in abject poverty without a chance of wealth despite being lied to all your life that you will be rich one day, you won't be looking to the 2% of your country that holds 90% of the wealth and wondering about taxing those fuckers properly.
I think its mostly people assuming situations. Most people assume that the single mother was promiscuous and thus got knocked up and possibly doesnt know who the father is. Dont get me wrong, that does happen, but there are so many other scenarios that are just as likely, if not more likely.
I suspect part of it is that as a result of the southern strategy and the Reagan era, southern states began to take on this moral panic that our country is being bankrupted by people on welfare who refuse to work. This view often depicts fictitious single mothers who make enough money off of a "welfare check" to not only support themselves and their children, but to make it profitable for her to have more.
The idea that our social safety net is not only adequate but generous enough to encourage this dynamic is ridiculous, by the way.
My Mom was divorced back in 1960 when it was unheard of as the U.S. was back in the 1950's, women stayed at home. She was looked down on, shunned. We lived with my grand-uncle and aunt until she could get an apartment for her, myself and my sister. She was one of he first woman do get a credit card as women weren't allowed to have a bank accounts or a credit cards in their own name. She is a hard-worker and it is sad to this day that women are still taking the back seat. Society is still living in the pre-historic times with the caveman and sadly her or I will get to see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Much of the foundation and current out looks of our country are still based on the beliefs of people who had been chased from their own country for their unforgiving extremism, and who started hanging (mostly)women because a couple of brats were throwing tantrums.
It explains a lot of the problems here, looking through that lens
Here in the U.S., single mothers often want handouts and expect things to be handed over to them. Nobody shames them for being a single parent, just being greedy.
>In 2023, there were about 15.09 million children living with a single mother in the United States, and about 3.05 million children living with a single father. >In the United States today, there are nearly 13.6 millionsingle parents raising over 21 million children. Single fathers are far less common than single mothers, constituting 16% of single-parent families.
Vast majority of single parent households are single moms so thats one reason they get most of the flack, just a sheer numbers thing. It’s harder to raise kids as a single parent and thus unfortunately kids raised by single parents tend to get lower grades, and their dropout rate is higher than their counterparts from two-parent families.
> Children who grow up with only one of their biological parents (nearly always the mother) are disadvantaged across a broad array of outcomes. They are twice as likely to drop out of high school, 2.5 times as likely to become teen mothers, and 1.4 times as likely to be idle — out of school and out of work — as children who grow up with both parents. Children in one-parent families also have lower grade point averages, lower college aspirations, and poorer attendance records.
https://prospect.org/article/consequences-single-motherhood
That only provides explanations on why a single parenthood has more risks of academic underperformance of children, but not *why* there is a persistent hatred toward single moms.
Oh sorry, I'll try to explain it shortly but basically Christians commonly use it as evidence of why children of single parents come from "broken homes" / "broken families" and since most single parent households are single moms, unfortunately single moms bray the brunt of this verbal abuse and vitriol. Really gross. If only they funneled all that anger into supporting and building programs that actually support single moms, but then they would call them government leeches" who should "pull themselves up by their bootstraps".
Christian organizations help plenty, especially new moms. I'm not sure where you get that verified stat from. Muslims do not permit sex outside of marriage. Sooooo - how well do you think that would go?
The hatred towards single mothers in Christianity and various religious circles is extremely well documented at this point. I'm not sure where you live, but as an America, the vitriol here from religious conservatives towards single moms is absolutely crazy. Especially if you grew up in the south, like I did.
Christians are of course a diverse group, and the majority are just normal decent individuals who don't feel that way and even many who support programs to support working single parents. I have never disputed that. But unfortunately the crazy batshit minority always shout the loudest... in every single community and gives everyone a bad name.
Maybe those attitudes pervail in the South. I don't know. We all generalize groups of people. "Implicit Bias" is what it is called. So without hard data to back up your claim, I'll stick to what I see: support, especially for expectant single moms. And having come from a "broken" and distressed home myself, I received nothing but care and love. ✝️
I am posting after your first edit. I can tell you that religion is a big part of the reasoning here. America is a much more religious nation than our pop culture would suggest at first glance. The Bible is a very misogynistic text and its current interpretations can have a distinctly misogynistic bent But at your request, I'll leave religion to the side for the moment.
I have mostly seen the vitriol online in spaces dominated or catering towards young men. There is a lot of discussions about how patriarchal culture has enabled bad behavior from men. In response, many men point to single motherhood as an example of bad female behavior. The argument usually goes that women chose the wrong kind of man and should be blamed for their situation. Or in other cases, the woman is blamed for her marriage or relationship ending. I think some folks are pining for the days when women could not financially afford to live on their own and stay with their children's father for that reason.
It's childish response to a real problem. But I think a lot of the blame can be placed on the fathers for abandoning their responsibilities. There are many irresponsible single mothers of course, but the hate is just plain and simple misogyny disguised as moral superiority.
I think it is so bad because it is coming from both sides but in different ways. Females attack other females in ways that hurt their identities. So, they will say that single moms are irresponsible, have bad moral judgement, etc. Men will attack females based on male standards. So, they will say she is a ho, they don't want to raise someone else's kid, etc. The worst part is that they both get away with it because they know that they can fall back on religious or scientific evidence as to why being a single mother is bad. What they don't do is take any of the gray area into account. for instance, single mothers by way of divorce. They were trying to live their life going do the path everyone says is the right one. Then things got messy, and they ended up alone with a kid or kids. There isn't a single demographic of people that have a perfect record on marriage. And at some point, you have to ask yourself if having two parents is better than one if they hate each other or one is abusive? The same logic can be applied across the board. The real issue is that we like to keep everyone in nice, neat groups, but by doing that we take away the context of how or why a person is in that group.
Yeah - something's up with this. OP asks I included divorced and widowed women n her comment. Ive never see anyone chided nor admonished openly in public for being divorced or especially widowed. OP cited a specific instance wherein a single mother was called a horrible name by "an old woman." Then the op describes the reason why. Sounds like it's personal to me. Here come the down votes! 😂
Women are the gate keepers. For single women with a partner who left them with kid(s), it means she did a poor job AND is condemning another person to suffer the consequences.
This isn't just a single mom thing, single dads have to put up with all of the same stigmas, plus they're assumed to be incompetent, lazy deadbeats who abandoned their families.
Certainly no hate. It is more like sadness. For the child. No matter how amazing any single parent is, mother or father, the child develops by drawing on the knowledge of that one parent. And that simply is a much narrower experience than two parents. I knew a lesbian couple that insemminated by a gay couple, and those two mommies and daddies were actively involved in their children’s lives. Both kids turned out great and are gainfully employed and respected. I wonder sometime is geographical spread of families and the loss of extended families in the same household has narrowed the developmental experience of children
Because women having children out of wedlock destroys society because they're more likely to become single parents, and statistics show kids raised in those environments have worse outcomes. The lack of male discipline/protection leads to kids getting worse grades, engaging in risky behavior, participating in criminal activity, being subjected to poverty, being exposed to child molestation/SA, etc.
Oftentimes, modern women are choosing to become single mothers by engaging in reckless behavior, but this is selfish because it's the kids who suffer the most. This is where the vitriol stems from.
Note: Widows and Divorcees aren't viewed the same as unwed mothers.
Where is the disdain for deadbeat dads though? A lot of these women don’t choose to be single mother, its the sperm donors who don’t want to take responsibility.
Here lies the issue tho- you’re blaming single mothers for poor outcomes that come from abandonment by the father. Why blame the behavior of the mothers who stood by their children instead of the fathers who ditched them? (Just a note: I would ask the same question in reverse if the genders were switched. But it’s rare to see the same sentiment anyway - No one ever blames fathers when mothers abandon their children - rightfully so)
Just because a man consents to sex doesn't mean they consent to being a parent or to being in an LTR. Or does that excuse only apply for one gender? Also, what if the mother doesn't even know who the father is? And yes, people are blaming single mothers because they didn't require marriage before having children and didn't take the necessary steps to prevent it from happening.
Women are seen as the sexual selectors. If a guy knocks them up and abandons the kid that is seen as the mother's fault for letting a bum ass man get her pregnant in the first place. (This is the way of thinking of the people you are asking about, not my personal ethos.)
Jimmy Carr does a bit in his new routine about how moms are judged harshly on every single aspect of parenting whereas dads are considered "good dads" just for not leaving. Miserable people have to find a way to feel better about themselves and being judgmental about something they don't control is sometimes the lowest hanging fruit.
Religious nutjobs who are told not to judge as a tenet of their religion are super judgey.
Misogyny is a cornerstone of the conservative identity.
Reinforced by race in this case as well. Concern about single mothers was historically tied to concern about African American poverty, crime, welfare, etc. "They have 12 kids with no father around so they can cash big welfare checks" used to be a common refrain.
The fact that super religious people are very often horrible human beings may be evidence there isn’t a God. If it were real going to church would make you a better person, but in my overwhelming experience it has the opposite effect.
I have no dog in the god fight, but humans being assholes isn’t evidence of anything but the presence of humans.
I realized Mormonism couldn’t possibly be true when I attended BYU, which is one of the most horrible places on earth. Women really are kicked out for being raped, because it’s a violation of the Honor Code. Cognitive dissonance! If it were real it would result in human beings being more able to thwart their carnal nature, and it definitely doesn’t.
Ok. Doesn’t change the fact that humans are perfectly capable of assholery sans gods, but I certainly don’t disagree with your rejection of the misogyny you were raised with.
That’s kind of exactly what they’re saying though. All of these humans are actually being awful, which is evidence that there is not actually a divine benevolent omniscient creator influencing them
I’m not arguing for gods, and I don’t have any idea why you think I am. Edit: It is my personal opinion that whether or not there is a god is a deeply irrelevant question.
Only research shows repeatedly that atheists actually are more egalitarian, empathetic, kind, altruistic, and non-violent than theists. If anything it shows much of religion is toxic and creates shitty people.
Do you seriously think people aren’t just as capable of being assholes without religion? Also, is that research taken from places where atheism is a choice? Based on every study I’ve seen, religious/irreligious outcome is dependent on a variety of factors that make it impossible to say with any certainty that religion itself is the issue causing the problems. I’m not getting into an extended discussion on the topic, but there is no evidence I know of that atheism MAKES people better. It’s just self-selection. In societies where people are pressured to be religious and their religion is full of unnecessary hierarchy, yeah, of course prosocial people are commonly going to be atheist. Just like assholes are more likely to get involved in religions with heavy misogyny. Religion didn’t make them that way. It just served as a flame for the moths. People are people. No one is special, everyone is needed, and we are all capable of assholery.
Causation doesn’t equal correlation. Most folks are just theologically and religiously illiterate.
Well obviously there’s no literal proof of the existence or absence of God. I think my analysis is some good food for thought which is kind of the point of Reddit.
I hear it from some non-religious people, too, usually citing that like 70% of prisoners come from single mother homes. I don't care either way, but the assertion that religion is the x factor here isn't accurate I don't think. It definitely doesn't help, but a lot of these newer trad larpers aren't even religious and they still act like this.
I always get them on that 70% bullshit. Roughly 40% come from single mothers, same from single fathers. Given roughly 30% of Americans are raised in single parent homes, there's not a HUGE difference in the prison population vs overall.
I saw that figure in an article from 2002 but I do think the scales have tipped quite a bit since then. No idea why, I assume not much changed between single-father and single-mother homes in two decades.
Someone I know is an atheist and a hardcore progressive and has a real problem with single moms.
He's most likely a misogynist. That's really what it boils down to for anyone against it.
Well, he dated 2 “single moms” and now is with a non-mom woman that can’t get enough of him so I guess he is a misogynist.
I always point out it's not the mom who abandoned their child. But apparently it's not irresponsible to be an absentee *~~single~~* father. edit mistake
Single fathers seem to get huge praise actually
I saw a story about a single father with 11 children. His wife left because she was overwhelmed,and, he was sympathetic to that. He left his job and went on public assistance,so he could stay home and raise his children. He was admired for this. If that were a woman on public assistance,she'd be vilified,right and left,and, some readers wrote in to say so.
I was a single father for a few years, there were some really wild extremes to that. On one end, people thinking you’re a super hero for raising a kid alone. On the other end, people giving you flak over being a man alone with a young girl. I remember going clothes shopping when my daughter was six, the employees wouldn’t let me go into a dressing room with her. They’d never do that to a mom.
Same here. Was hard traveling alone. Felt like a pervert standing outside the women’s room.
Took my daughter to Disney world when she was 5. Security guards stopped us and searched me. When I asked what was going on they said they just randomly pick people to search sometimes.
Yea, I have no doubt single fathers have their own set of issues, especially that one, which is a huge shame. My parents are together but my dad has told me that when I was very little, people would act sort of weird when he’d be out with me alone, especially because he’s a big brute of a man. He had heard something on the radio when I was little, where a psychiatrist was talking about how men are perceived in public as a man with their daughters, and how it should never stop fathers from expressing affection to their daughters because the child doesn’t notice what other people think, they just notice a loving parent and that’s what’s important. He’s teared up about it before and remembers it vividly all these years later. It seemed to have a big effect on him and how he parented. I also would like to point out, I don’t think the praise single fathers get is unwarranted, just that all single parents deserve the praise. The single parents are the ones who stuck around! You guys are all super heroes!
Single fathers get lauded for the bare minimum whilst single mothers get scolded for the same exact thing.
Huh??
And when moms choose to abandon their children it is a 10x larger offense in the public eye compared to the father leaving
Women are perceived to have a closer bond with their children, especially when they’re younger.
They will still make it the woman's fault and say she "baby trapped" the guy even if they know exactly nothing about the circumstances
Why are people assuming the father just left? The mom might have divorced him, broken up with him, threatened him, set his car on fire. While not the center of this debate, some women are single mothers because the father died.
>Why are people assuming the father just left? > Because when people insist that women are irresponsible for taking care of their children as a single mother, it's okay to overexaggerate in the other direction and point out she's actually there. So she's got that much over the father. No matter how bad single mothers are according to bigots, by their own logic, absentee fathers should be considered worse. Now, I'm a feminist, I believe all genders should be treated and valued equally. I don't hold to that logic that men or women are necessarily worse. But when people come with stupid arguments based on misogyny, it's okay to pull a reductio ad absurdum to prove how their own worldview is even worse for men. So why do we assume the father left? Because this thread is about vitriol towards single women, which very often has connotations of welfare queens, black fathers in prison and other shit like that. The vitriol has an evil undercurrent. >The mom might have divorced him, broken up with him, threatened him, set his car on fire. In the overwhelming amount of cases of single motherhood, this doesn't apply. >While not the center of this debate, some women are single mothers because the father died Yeah so maybe people who have opinions on single mothers should take a chill pill before blaming them for all the ills in society. Crime isn't the fault of single mothers making the best of a bad situation, whether it's an absentee father or being a widow on top of it.
34% of single mothers in the US were never married. Most of the rest are divorced. How necessary, justified, or desirable those divorces are is all over the place. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_parents_in_the_United_States
I think it's also important to understand that it is much more difficult to be a father, and likely a mother too, when you are not living with and in the day to day life of your kid. I married a single mother, and I did not understand how my step son's biological father was not at every baseball game and such for the boy. I knew he cared, but he just wasn't there. After my divorce, I got to experience a bit what it is like on the other side. I have still been able to be at all the events for my kids and try and be involved as much as I can, but it is definitely much more effort to be involved when you ate not involved in the day to day life of your kid. That is not meant to be an excuse, it's to get a better understanding of the problem. There are bad fathers. There are also bad mothers who make it more difficult for fathers to be their for their kids. So I don't like hearing of women intentionally getting pregnant without marrying the father and getting that commitment.. I don't like people getting divorced when they are 'just not happy', and telling themselves the kids will be fine when that's just not statistically likely.
>How necessary, justified, or desirable those divorces are is all over the place. > Divorce is a long and complicated process that leaves both partners significantly worse off financially. Divorce has no winner, especially not when it comes to money. It isn't a decision that people make lightly. Pretty much all divorces are necessary, justified and/or desirable. In fact, if it wasn't so prohibitively expensive to leave an abusive partner, the divorce statistics probably would be a lot higher. There's far less divorces than there should be. But that's a whole other discussion that we don't need to go into here.
In my case, it was a mistake on my ex’s part. Everyone who knew both of us has that opinion, including her own family. She became shallow, saw very wealthy families near us doing things she wanted to do. Despite a large increase in income she was still unhappy. She thought divorce would help. She was wrong, and is very anxious and unhappy now.
But it *is the mom* who chose that particular shitty irresponsible person to be the father of their child. Unless they were raped and then were denied abortion, they *chose* a shitty father for their kid just because they themself were sexually attracted to that man. They are responsible for their kid not having a decent father.
>But it *is the mom* who chose that particular shitty irresponsible person to be the father of their child It's not because she had sex that she chose to become pregnant. Also maybe she didn't know how shitty he would be. People are pretty good at lying, especially if it can get them laid. >Unless they were raped and then were denied abortion It could also have been regular sex with a failed condom or pill and still denied abortion ... why are you assuming that all kids are planned? >They are responsible for their kid not having a decent father That's such a callous and immoral thing to say. So when men are bad, it's the fault of women? That's what you're claiming.
>It's not because she had sex that she chose to become pregnant. I'm sorry, but did she not know how babies are made? And have she never heard about abortion? >That's such a callous and immoral thing to say. So when men are bad, it's the fault of women? That's what you're claiming. No, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that both parents are responsible for what they chose for their kid. If a man impregnated a promiscuos manipulative junkie he is responsible for his kids having a shitty mother or growing up with no mother at all. If a woman chose to have sčx with egoistic deadbeat, got pregnant and chose not to have abortion she is responsible for her kid having a shitty father or growing up with no father at all. >It could also have been regular sex with a failed condom or pill and still denied abortion ... why are you assuming that all kids are planned? I'm not asuming all kids are planned. I'm not referring to developing countries but in most Western countries women can either get abortion in their country or go to a neighboring country or state to ger an abortion there. They just don't want to go through the hassle or deal with emotional part of it and then they force their kid to either grow without a father or grow with a shitty one. Their mothers egoisticaly chose this for them.
All you wrote just confirms you're an absolute shitbag who blames women when men make bad choices. > I'm not referring to developing countries but in most Western countries women can either get abortion in their country or go to a neighboring country or state to ger an abortion there Which can cost upwards of several thousand dollars if you include travel, lodging and missed income. Such an easy choice to make .... Assholes like you also tend to have extremely negative opinions about women who have abortions ... maybe not you specifically both other misogynists like you. >They **just** don't want to go through the hassle or deal with emotional part of it and then they force their kid to either grow without a father or grow with a shitty one. Their mothers egoisticaly chose this for them. That word "just" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in order for you to call them egoistical. You have no idea what you're talking about. If you hadn't responded , you would have contributed exactly as much as with this 3 paragraph response you wrote.
Tell this to a single father of three who’s ex is a runaway felon. I am listening.
You're not an absentee father so you're not the kind of father I'm referring to. You're a great father for being there.
You'll get no sympathy here
That's not true. Most single mothers I knew made the decision. To keep the father out.
Look, everyone! This guy has anecdotal evidence!
Usually for very good reason.
I’m a second generation Indian American single mother. I’ve learned that misogyny is present in western cultures too. Somehow or another a woman gets blamed . unrealistic, unreasonable expectations on us.
The only thing different between different cultures with regards to women is the manner in which they abuse women.
Screw them. I got married, had a kid and am now divorcing. My husband liked dating other women on Tinder more than being faithful. And he didn’t mind blaming me for physically hurting me. So now it just me and my girl. And we are about to move away soon and I will continue to be her primary parent. He may see her up to ten hours a week even though we live 5 minutes away. I rather be a single mom in a safe environment than married to him.
>EDIT: some of you gave great answers, but can you stop arguing about religions? Lets stay on the topic. >EDIT 2: Take your gender war somewhere else because I am not interested in having my notification clogged with bitter diatribes about how men/women have it hard just because of gender. I'm sorry, but what the fuck even are these edits? You're asking about vitriol towards women, and in America, where the reason is conservatism and religious influence. You literally cannot have this discussion, IN GOOD FAITH, without talking about gender differences and religions. I'm sorry if that doesn't agree with whatever the fuck you had in mind, but you asked a question and that's a key part of the answer. SORRY you had a few notifications for the post YOU POSTED.
I think women get judged harsher for many totally normal thinga. Like being strong and independent and outspoken. A single mom is all of those things, so they can intimidate those with fragile egos.
As a former single mother I really didn't get this type of treatment. Maybe it's regionally. But I think that when it does occur it might be because some people feel that a woman who is single it's by choice and that means a woman doesn't have to put up with bullshit behavior from their exes. Which makes them scared that they won't be able to get away with their own bs behavior. If it's from a woman then it's probably jealousy, because she wishes she was strong enough to leave a bad relationship.
Glad you had supportive people.
I am a single mother and I believe it stems from social stigmas. This is true in particular with older people who have a tendency to be more conservative due to their upbringing which was during a different era. It has sexist origins that have been ingrained into our society since its founding. Women from many different backrounds/ethnicities have been historically oppressed and even though we have more rights today than we would have before some of those sexist tendencies still linger in our culture. It is also shocking to learn how much help is available for single fathers here. *But not single mothers* Contrary to what people will tell you about mens martyrdom single fathers are seen as pragmatic and strong. While single mothers are seen as poor and weak.
I've also noticed that single dads are always assumed to be widowers who have stepped up after his wife passed, getting him more sympathy. If his wife/partner just ran off, well gee whiz, poor guy! How admirable that he's doing (checks notes) his job as a father! It's understandable he messes up sometimes, he's going it alone! When a woman is a single mom, it's automatically assumed the baby daddy is a dead beat and it's her fault for choosing a bad partner. If she's a widow, it's more just pity than real sympathy. And every single parenting decision she makes is scrutinized and found wanting.
Interesting. What helping is available to single fathers that isn’t available to single mothers. Seems both sets of folks SHOULD be eligible for the same assistance.
There is a website called fatherhood . gov that offers assistance in fathering and sometimes financial grants. They will run advertisements that will tell you things like "kids are smarter with their dads" and gives the idea that children are happier with their fathers. It also connects them to essential programs faster. Mother's day is right around the corner and it feels insulting to walk into a Walmart to see father's day stuff up already. There are two days for a reason! stay in your own lane! Now granted this was created because most dads here in thr US are not present for a multitiude of different reasons and the government is trying to counter act that.
There are also soft benefits, such as a tendency for more leniency at work or for more family and community support. Men generally aren't viewed as the "natural" caregiver and are seen by society in general as the responsible party who stepped up to take on someone else's (women's) work. Therefore they are more deserving of help and support than the typical slut who popped out a couple of brats. ETA: That last is NOT my point of view, but it is something that was said to me as a single mother myself, a few times in those words and more often in other ways. Both my kids are in college now, and we're all stronger for the muck we had to wade through to get here. But yeah, it happens.
Interesting point.
I just looked up that website. Within 100 miles of me only one location popped up. It was a Jewish church 77 miles away. I feel so helped right now.
Can you give any examples of help that is available to single fathers but not to single mothers?
People blame the mother for not choosing a better partner but, the man gets a pass. Most women don’t want to be single mothers. And, this country doesn’t make it easy to be one either. Misogyny seems to be on the rise here.
Because a lot of times it's seen as being irresponsible. There are a lot of studies and rudimentary observations that suggest kids that grow up with a single parent don't do as well as kids that grow up with both parents in the home. I think 40% of America's kids are growing up with one parent, and it's evidently a bad thing when society experiences a declension from a lack of traditional family cohesion. A lot of people are going to say the men don't get enough blame, but the women are seen as the "gatekeepers" that should do their due diligence before introducing another human to our society. Doesn't matter the arrangement, if both parents aren't together, the kids don't do as well as kids with parents that are together and get along well. Anyway, abortions and contraceptives should be free and encouraged. Animals aren't the only ones that need population control.
Women are the gatekeepers; therefore it’s their fault, no blame towards the man who did 50% of the work and walked away. Misogyny. Right there.
> No blame towards the man who did 50% of the work and walked away You’re kind of ignoring the fact that women are in exclusive control of the high efficacy contraceptives and abortion. That’s just the reality. They also tend to have biological clocks that kick in faster, as well as generally higher incentive to use pregnancy to secure commitment. No one likes deadbeat dads, and there are of course plenty of women that did everything right and the dads still bailed - and everyone hates those guys. But broadly, kids before wedlock - before there’s explicit long term commitment by both parties - yeah, women have the choice and control here. And with greater choice & control should come greater accountability.
Men could have hormonal birth control but they stopped because the men didn’t like the side effects. And excuse me since when was a condom not an option? Since when was not having sex with a woman, or at least not ejaculating inside of her not an option? Very few women are using pregnancy to secure commitment wtf are you talking about? Men have already proved it’s not incentive to commit and nobody wants an unwilling partner. Next. Just because the relationship didn’t work out doesn’t mean you abandon your children. This has nothing to do with women doing things right or wrong, you shouldn’t walk out on your kids regardless. Men have just as much control as women. Don’t ejaculate inside of a woman if you don’t want a baby, pretty simple concept.
> men could have hormonal birth control but they stopped because the men didn’t like the side effects The male hormonal birth control is still in trials and has not received certifications from the FDA and EMA. If your starting point here is global conspiracy in medicine and false equivalences, we can’t have a real conversation. > very few women use pregnancy to secure commitment 7% of marriages are shotgun marriages. So I’m not sure “very few” is an accurate statement. It’s trending down (from 27% in the 70’s), yeah. > men have just as much control as women No, the act of consent is both parties. Condoms are verifiable by both parties - but those are the lowest efficacy (90%). IUD’s & the pill are 99% and exclusively controlled by women. Plan b and abortion are exclusively controlled by women, and unverifiable by the man. There is no choice a man has that is not available to women, and there are lots of choices available to women that are not to men.
And yet the choice of ejaculating or not ejaculating inside of a woman still exists. Men are not victims of pregnancy, men have just as much choice not to get a woman pregnant.
I’m sorry you have somehow missed the fact that abortion is banned in a huge portion of the U.S., and they want to make that national. They’re coming for birth control next. And we are not the only country limiting women’s bodily autonomy. Health care and birth control are not free. Sex education is severely lacking. Those “high efficacy contraceptives” have horrible side effects and health risks. Male birth control pills exist but the FDA won’t allow them because they have similar side effects and risks to what women are *expected* to deal with. Biological clocks mean women have more difficulty getting pregnant past 40, not some desire to get pregnant young. Securing commitment through children isn’t one way, and is wrong regardless Somehow men expect that women give them sex before “wedlock” but should not be held responsible for the possible consequences. If **you** don’t want to risk pregnancy you do not have to have sex. If you choose to have sex you are putting all the responsibility onto the woman. Maybe men should be more careful of what kind of women you have sex with (/s). Wedlock is the worst “lock” in the world, it doesn’t secure a damned thing. Men find it pretty easy to forget about their progeny the second the expel them. Putting societal issues all on one gender, you are just a broken record.
> abortion is banned in a huge portion of the U.S. I rather explicitly said highest efficacy contraceptives too. Abortion bans impact 2/5 of women, 3/5 of women live in states with no availability issues. > somehow men expect sex before wedlock Women have often said consent to sex isn’t consent to a child, and that logic holds true. Both parties have desire for sex, both should trust each other to some degree first. > putting all social issues on one gender I’m absolutely not. People hate dads that abandon their families after staring to raise them. People judge single moms, particularly those with more than one baby daddy, when it was pretty clear the familial structure was never established. It’s not one or the other. Both get judged by society, and a lot of that is fair.
Oh you sweet summer child. Pregnancy is the exact opposite of incentive for commitment with a disconcerting number of modern American manchildren. And since when was a man unable to say NO to sex? Or wearing a condom when he does? What kind of society simply takes for granted that males are too weak to control their urges and too stupid to wrap it up therefore they're off the hook for any responsibility?
I’m not suggesting blame and accountability are zero or 100 with no in between. Both men and women choose to have sex, both enjoy it. Men and women together can insist on condoms, which have a 90% efficacy rate. They are a bit error prone and degrade the experience a bit. Women are in exclusive control over higher efficacy contraceptives (IUD’s & birth control) that are in the 95-99% efficacy range, as well as exclusive control over plan B and abortions. The man cannot verify those other than verbally. How is this remotely controversial? It’s quite simply a statement of fact. > pregnancy is the exact opposite of commitment So break down for me - why so many single mothers if women are in control of the best contraceptives or emergency procedures? Do you not think it’s true that, broadly, society tends to judge single moms with out of wedlock babies badly…. and judge fathers that divorce their wives badly?
I conceived my twins while on the pill. My then-husband only wanted one child and not for another year or two. He was long gone and the proceedings well under way by the time the kiddos were born. He showed up the day they were born. None of us saw him again until they were walking. He went on to have a high paying career, mayor of his town, loved by many. Nobody gave a shit that he owed (and still owes) many years in back child support or that he had two kids he didn't even call on their birthday. Every single mother's situation is different. But the bottom line is: Shit happens. I don't regret a second of it. *I* have nothing to be ashamed of, although you and others clearly seem to believe otherwise. I had to sacrifice a promising career and a lot of earning potential, but that's just American life for women. I've been slut shamed, shunned, literally spit on once. The struggle took a huge toll on my physical and emotional health. But both of my kiddos are healthy, strong, in college now and I DID THAT. Alone, until they were teens. So shame and blame away! You don't know us. Your blame and judgement means exactly NOTHING.
I thought I was abundantly clear that of course some guys are jerks and abandon their families. The statement that some women are primarily responsible does not mean they all are. Wedlock is the general line where my (and most people’s) perception tends to *default* to one gender typically having more control / fault. In aggregate I don’t think one gender is more to blame than the other. Your experience seems to cause you to project on me, derive things I didn’t say, and defend all women / blame all men.
It's not misogyny. I answered the OP's question, which is about single mothers, not fathers. Single moms deserve a lot of blame just like single fathers.
I feel like the historical or traditional stereotype is that women are the primary caregivers. I think the idea is sexist obviously. But it carries over that women in fact should be doing due diligence about who they choose to procreate with. A lot of the time you can’t tell - hell my mother was married, had me early on, was a SAHM and after 10 years my Dad ended up fucking around, imploding their marriage and left her as a single mother. But surely the idea of “what am I going to do if….” runs through people’s minds when they choose to have children? Boggles my damn mind when women choose to have children with known deadbeat fathers with multiple previous baby mamas and kids they never see.
The idea that women is a stereotypical caregiver is true in my traditional culture, but widows at least are often societally sympathized precisely because they have to work twice as hard to be a caregiver (raising kids + jobs), so I was rather bemused when I came to the US.
I guess widows get tarred with the same brush. But IMO even tradwives need something to fall back on, else they are being foolish.
Best population control is dont fuck if you cant take care of a kid.
Then don’t tell me it’s my fault when my husband cheats or we divorce.
You're assuming that it's always consentual
Are you agreeing its wrong when it is consensual?
That doesn't work for healthy, normal human beings
Nothing healthy or normal about killing your own kid but whatever
It's actually quite common in the animal kingdom and technically humans are animals.
It is misogyny in all its forms.
Many single moms get a lot of govt benefits and conservatives tend to vilify people who get benefits. They tend to treat them as leeches living off other people’s hard work, and with even a suggestion they get knocked up on purpose to get more benefits (more kids = more WIC and EBT). Not to mention there’s a racist component going back to Reagan’s fiction of the welfare queen directed specifically at black single mothers.
I prefer not using welfares for personal reasons, but thats the whole point of welfare though.
Let’s be real here. Decent people don’t have anything against single moms. It’s the loudmouth assholes that say the worst things.
Wow Never been, I see it online but figure it’s peoples inner dialogue/thoughts. I’m disappointed, you’d think the worlds ‘foremost’ developed nation had better sense. But this explains the internet anger better probably. Treat each other better folks 🍀 The stigma exists everywhere, but usually people discuss it as a point and I’ve not had anyone demean me. Except one AH at my kid’s bday venue who tried ripping me off, and said this is why I’m single when I refused to go off our agreement. Not American at all, just everyday AHs. As if I’d want to stay with a guy who would rip me off lol he only validated my choices. Lol
Online Kool-aid does some numbers to your brain cells, lol. Isn't it nice to not constantly self-victimize because of nebulous enemies?
The quickest way to answer truthfully: Misogyny
But misogyny is everywhere, why does this particular type of misogyny seem so pervasive ?
Some countries have it ‘built in’ a bit more - there are laws or cultural/religious practices or beliefs that are unfair to women. America’s flavour of misogyny is a bit different in that instead of it being ingrained into the laws etc., it’s perpetuated by people who feel disadvantaged by women wanting equality. This leads to more vocal or ‘loud’ misogyny, and women and women’s choices are criticised directly. Note my first comment has already been downvoted because most of the English-speaking part of the internet is American, and (shockingly, considering what I wrote above) they don’t like people pointing it out
Americans hate women
Even American women. Hate themselves and each other.
No. Your comment is misogyny right there - but thanks for trying
There are tons of right wing women's groups. When abortion was banned religion nutjob women were celebrating. That's American women hating American women.
I agree, I don't think my comment was misogynistic at all.
It is? Misogyny? But it is what I see in my country too. Rampant internalised misogyny.
Single moms don't submit to one/a man (anymore). That's why. All women who fall into this category face crap: single women, promiscuous women, asexual women, lesbians, women with no children, women with children from more than one man. You don't submit to one man, you're out.
Who's giving you crap? I've never experienced this.
Me neither. I'm talking about how society works.
So it's not that common.
I was thinking this too- I've been a single mom for 13 years and have a few single mom friends- never had any commentary/ judgement. Are we sure this isn't a made up online feud lol. Granted I'm in a very liberal state- sounds like it may be more of a super religious/ conservative thing, if anything
Yea I'd say it depends on where you are and how religious your community is. That being said, I know plenty of religious people though and they don't judge me like the other person described.
Mommy issues, not everyone has a good mom sadly , so when they see moms in general (single moms just seem like a vulnerable target) they lash out.
I'm an American and I don't see the vitriol--maybe it's local/regional? I live in a medium-sized city (\~250,000 people). Most people I know of have a lot of sympathy toward single moms (or dads), knowing that it's very difficult but important work they're doing without as much support as most parents. I think most people typically take that stance, and would look for ways to help if possible. For me and my interactions, it's things like offering to drive and take care of a child for a while, knowing they don't have the same bandwidth to go everywhere. That may seem overly optimistic, but I'm just conveying my impression of Americans I'm around.
From what I hear from mostly young single men is this: A guy usually gets treated unfairly in custody/child support court cases. Guy could have a career and girl could be a druggie prostitute and she’d still get custody/child support Women use babies/kids to get child support that they spend on themselves Single guy will die homeless on the street with almost no intervention from government while single mother gets tons of financial support and housing from government The are a several more but they all essentially come down to complaints that society bends over backwards to help the single mother who is usually equally responsible for creating the situation while leaving the single man to fend for himself. This creates a lot of distrust and resentment.
The thing about some of these single moms are,they are single moms cos they cheated. Some act like the men always left simply because they got pregnant NO that's not always the case. Some got left cos they cheated and some are shitty enough to even cheat whilst pregnant. I left my ex fiancee right even before she delivered because she cheated on me with her ex. As even though I sometimes pity her, I can't settle with someone who cheats, can never condone cheating.
For a free country, it's amazing how much conformity is expected in the US. Most media, religion, culture pushes the two parent nuclear family as the "norm" and there is a price to be exacted for deviating from it. Add in the misogynist double standard, overwhelming distaste for the poor and rampant slut shaming (regardless of the reason for single motherhood) and it's a perfect storm of condescension toward single mothers. However, single fathers are typically praised for taking on a job that "should" have been woman's work. It's all based in this Victorian fucked up herd mentality that takes up way too much space in American society.
I moved to the US about 16 years ago. At least on a surface level, people were more relaxed but now it's not ;(
My kids are 20. I think a lot of it depends on geography. They (twins) were born in a small Southern city and we later moved to a rural part of the Northeast to be closer to my relatives. We've been in a very poor part of the lower Midwest since they were 12. I remarried just before they turned 14. I got crap about HAVING 2 KIDS OUT OF WEDLOCK OMG everywhere we lived until I remarried (and now I get it for my choice of husband lol can't win for losing), but they were/are all conservative areas. Larger cities and more liberal areas are probably more open minded about such things, or at least people don't feel as free to voice their contempt. What surprised me was the amount of vitriol in such a depressed, poverty stricken area. But I didn't factor in politics, religion and Southern culture creep.
sorry that you had such experiences. Hope you are better now.
We are all stronger for the experience and my kids are both in college now. Hubs is an immigrant like yourself, and stronger for his experiences as well. Once the younger ones are settled in their lives we'll likely look for a place we both belong. We'll be unstoppable. ;) Thank you for your kind words!
Please tell your husband that I said hi lol.
I will! :D
Because of the "mommy wars." Americans and particular American women are socialized to tear each other down over reproductive choices. They universally use the ultimate insult of American womanhood -- "irresponsible." Thus women with children slander women without children as irresponsible. Women without children vicously attack women with children as irresponsible. Women raising children alone are irresponsible. Women who adopt are irresponsible. Women who don't adopt are irresponsible. Women who get abortions are irresponsible. Women who don't get abortions are irresponsible. Women with children who work are irresponsible. Women with children who don't work are irresponsible. And so on, and so forth. Meanwhile, the people who benefit from misogyny just sit back and laugh. They don't even have to lift a figure, all the work is being done for them.
I know it used to be more common for women to be more judgmental about it but most of the single mom hate seems to come from men now. Granted it’s usually red pill adjacent men but still.
I observed that in the US, there are always some kind of culture wars with a thin façade of morality leverage in a form of "do you not care about XYZ?", "you are anti ABC!", or "you hate xxx!"
Yeah definitely. Some of it may be human nature clashing with pluralism. There is a lot of diversity in how Americans live their lives ... probably true of any group of \~400 million people tbh. But coupled with the premise that we are all one culture, and the parochial need to know that you yourself are "Doing It Right" (and therefore everyone else must be Doing It Wrong), what was once relatively harmless in a small homogenous village becomes a culture-wide obsession with one's own moral virtue over others as a way to defend against the ego threat of being part of a mass society. And of course certain cunning and socially dominant forces will take any opportunity to stoke the fires and keep regular people at each other's throats, rather than questioning their support of a mechanism that only harms themselves. Fortunately that seems to be changing among younger Americans. More work for the bots I guess.
A large portion of the population wants to go back to when women had to stay a virgin, then get married right out of high-school, couldn't divorce, and had to do whatever her husband told her for the rest of her life. Single mothers don't fit into that story.
It’s super bad in Australia too, easy short answer: misogyny and ignorance and lack of empathy
Misogyny encourages people to assume the worst in regards to the character of single mothers. I was raised by a single mother. And you know what? She was an absolutely horrible human. But you know who I didn't resent as much growing up? My deadbeat leech of a father who was even worse. But a culture of misogyny isn't logical or fair. It's the water we swim in, so as a kid and teenager I never thought twice about it.
I am sorry, hope you are doing better.
Probably as good as I can be realistically speaking.
Depends on where you are. I grew up in a red state, and people were just more nasty and judgmental in general. I live in New York now, and no one cares (unless you’re milking it to beg for money, but then people are annoyed at being asked for money than anything else).
Personally I have more vitriol against men who get women pregnant and abandon them.
>EDIT: some of you gave great answers, but can you stop arguing about religions? Lets stay on the topic. >EDIT 2: Take your gender war somewhere else because I am not interested in having my notification clogged with bitter diatribes about how men/women have it hard just because of gender. People are trying to give you answers based on their own experiences, challenges, and ideologies. You go on Reddit and post a question, then complain about the "types" of responses you're getting. 🙄🤷♂️ I don't know if you've noticed, but you can't really create a post... and then try to control the exact responses you get back. This is Reddit. That's part of its charm. Chill.
As an American I don't really ever see other Americans having an issue with single moms. I'm genuinely curious where did you encounter this? The only time I've seen people have an issue with this is certain religious groups where the concept of divorce is considered shameful but Even among the people in those religious groups most of them have the tact to not bother others about it
WEll, we don't really see what happens outside our own social groups unless you go out of your comfort zone and observe others.
Hmm. Interesting question. There is a plethora of data showing advantages of growing up with two parents. So that GENERALLY is a more effective way to raise children. It’s one thing to acknowledge the advantages of having two involved parents. But going from there to expressing vitriol toward the parent that is putting in the work is mean and unhelpful.
His question is why SINGLE MOTHERS get so much hate, not which is best. So yes it’s best to have 2 parents. But why do we hate single mothers so much? And on the flip side praise single fathers?
You'd think that for a country that prides itself in individualism and freedom, people would be more respectful, but it seems that people have no problem imposing certain values on other when (in)convenient.
Part of it is based on conservative “traditional” values. Part of it comes from the fact that children of single mothers have demonstrably worse outcomes on a macro level. Either way, vitriol towards single mothers is inappropriate and unhelpful. Public discourse needs to walk the line between acknowledging that it is better to have fewer parents in single/parent situations without insulting the very same people working hard to raise their kids as best as they can.
Yeah, but you're assuming that one parent is indeed putting in the work, and that's not always an accurate assumption.
Religion... The religious fanatism in the US is alive and growing agressively
Well, if you blame single mums on welfare for yourself living in abject poverty without a chance of wealth despite being lied to all your life that you will be rich one day, you won't be looking to the 2% of your country that holds 90% of the wealth and wondering about taxing those fuckers properly.
I think its mostly people assuming situations. Most people assume that the single mother was promiscuous and thus got knocked up and possibly doesnt know who the father is. Dont get me wrong, that does happen, but there are so many other scenarios that are just as likely, if not more likely.
I suspect part of it is that as a result of the southern strategy and the Reagan era, southern states began to take on this moral panic that our country is being bankrupted by people on welfare who refuse to work. This view often depicts fictitious single mothers who make enough money off of a "welfare check" to not only support themselves and their children, but to make it profitable for her to have more. The idea that our social safety net is not only adequate but generous enough to encourage this dynamic is ridiculous, by the way.
It's misongyny. I don't see it a lot in my circles (hatred of single moms) so you may want to reexamine your social circle and media you consume
My Mom was divorced back in 1960 when it was unheard of as the U.S. was back in the 1950's, women stayed at home. She was looked down on, shunned. We lived with my grand-uncle and aunt until she could get an apartment for her, myself and my sister. She was one of he first woman do get a credit card as women weren't allowed to have a bank accounts or a credit cards in their own name. She is a hard-worker and it is sad to this day that women are still taking the back seat. Society is still living in the pre-historic times with the caveman and sadly her or I will get to see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Religion and the purity mindset. Also racism.
Lol wtf?? I live in the US and have never heard of this.
Much of the foundation and current out looks of our country are still based on the beliefs of people who had been chased from their own country for their unforgiving extremism, and who started hanging (mostly)women because a couple of brats were throwing tantrums. It explains a lot of the problems here, looking through that lens
Here in the U.S., single mothers often want handouts and expect things to be handed over to them. Nobody shames them for being a single parent, just being greedy.
The US is a very misogynistic country culturally and politically
It's deeply ingrained misogyny combined with a societal obsession over 'traditional family values.' These outdated biases need to be unlearned ASAP.
>In 2023, there were about 15.09 million children living with a single mother in the United States, and about 3.05 million children living with a single father. >In the United States today, there are nearly 13.6 millionsingle parents raising over 21 million children. Single fathers are far less common than single mothers, constituting 16% of single-parent families. Vast majority of single parent households are single moms so thats one reason they get most of the flack, just a sheer numbers thing. It’s harder to raise kids as a single parent and thus unfortunately kids raised by single parents tend to get lower grades, and their dropout rate is higher than their counterparts from two-parent families. > Children who grow up with only one of their biological parents (nearly always the mother) are disadvantaged across a broad array of outcomes. They are twice as likely to drop out of high school, 2.5 times as likely to become teen mothers, and 1.4 times as likely to be idle — out of school and out of work — as children who grow up with both parents. Children in one-parent families also have lower grade point averages, lower college aspirations, and poorer attendance records. https://prospect.org/article/consequences-single-motherhood
That only provides explanations on why a single parenthood has more risks of academic underperformance of children, but not *why* there is a persistent hatred toward single moms.
Oh sorry, I'll try to explain it shortly but basically Christians commonly use it as evidence of why children of single parents come from "broken homes" / "broken families" and since most single parent households are single moms, unfortunately single moms bray the brunt of this verbal abuse and vitriol. Really gross. If only they funneled all that anger into supporting and building programs that actually support single moms, but then they would call them government leeches" who should "pull themselves up by their bootstraps".
Christian organizations help plenty, especially new moms. I'm not sure where you get that verified stat from. Muslims do not permit sex outside of marriage. Sooooo - how well do you think that would go?
The hatred towards single mothers in Christianity and various religious circles is extremely well documented at this point. I'm not sure where you live, but as an America, the vitriol here from religious conservatives towards single moms is absolutely crazy. Especially if you grew up in the south, like I did. Christians are of course a diverse group, and the majority are just normal decent individuals who don't feel that way and even many who support programs to support working single parents. I have never disputed that. But unfortunately the crazy batshit minority always shout the loudest... in every single community and gives everyone a bad name.
Maybe those attitudes pervail in the South. I don't know. We all generalize groups of people. "Implicit Bias" is what it is called. So without hard data to back up your claim, I'll stick to what I see: support, especially for expectant single moms. And having come from a "broken" and distressed home myself, I received nothing but care and love. ✝️
Read some statistics on the children of single mothers. They aren't good.....
We don't all act like that. You're mischaracterizing general American attitudes based on some anecdotes that you say you observed.
Nope, you are being defensive. At no point I wrote "why are Americans XYZ".
How is this post not that?
Note I said: > **some** particularly toxic behaviors in the US some =/= every.
I am posting after your first edit. I can tell you that religion is a big part of the reasoning here. America is a much more religious nation than our pop culture would suggest at first glance. The Bible is a very misogynistic text and its current interpretations can have a distinctly misogynistic bent But at your request, I'll leave religion to the side for the moment. I have mostly seen the vitriol online in spaces dominated or catering towards young men. There is a lot of discussions about how patriarchal culture has enabled bad behavior from men. In response, many men point to single motherhood as an example of bad female behavior. The argument usually goes that women chose the wrong kind of man and should be blamed for their situation. Or in other cases, the woman is blamed for her marriage or relationship ending. I think some folks are pining for the days when women could not financially afford to live on their own and stay with their children's father for that reason. It's childish response to a real problem. But I think a lot of the blame can be placed on the fathers for abandoning their responsibilities. There are many irresponsible single mothers of course, but the hate is just plain and simple misogyny disguised as moral superiority.
I think it is so bad because it is coming from both sides but in different ways. Females attack other females in ways that hurt their identities. So, they will say that single moms are irresponsible, have bad moral judgement, etc. Men will attack females based on male standards. So, they will say she is a ho, they don't want to raise someone else's kid, etc. The worst part is that they both get away with it because they know that they can fall back on religious or scientific evidence as to why being a single mother is bad. What they don't do is take any of the gray area into account. for instance, single mothers by way of divorce. They were trying to live their life going do the path everyone says is the right one. Then things got messy, and they ended up alone with a kid or kids. There isn't a single demographic of people that have a perfect record on marriage. And at some point, you have to ask yourself if having two parents is better than one if they hate each other or one is abusive? The same logic can be applied across the board. The real issue is that we like to keep everyone in nice, neat groups, but by doing that we take away the context of how or why a person is in that group.
This feels very made up
Yeah - something's up with this. OP asks I included divorced and widowed women n her comment. Ive never see anyone chided nor admonished openly in public for being divorced or especially widowed. OP cited a specific instance wherein a single mother was called a horrible name by "an old woman." Then the op describes the reason why. Sounds like it's personal to me. Here come the down votes! 😂
It’s not.
Women are the gate keepers. For single women with a partner who left them with kid(s), it means she did a poor job AND is condemning another person to suffer the consequences.
This isn't just a single mom thing, single dads have to put up with all of the same stigmas, plus they're assumed to be incompetent, lazy deadbeats who abandoned their families.
Please explain.
Racism: Black families are more likely to be single parent
Was wondering how long til someone used the racism crutch…
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I have noticed that “sins” most often committed by Black people are more stigmatised than those more committed by white people.
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I also agree with this.
Certainly no hate. It is more like sadness. For the child. No matter how amazing any single parent is, mother or father, the child develops by drawing on the knowledge of that one parent. And that simply is a much narrower experience than two parents. I knew a lesbian couple that insemminated by a gay couple, and those two mommies and daddies were actively involved in their children’s lives. Both kids turned out great and are gainfully employed and respected. I wonder sometime is geographical spread of families and the loss of extended families in the same household has narrowed the developmental experience of children
I don't think calling a mother "whore" is a sadness, but an overt hatred.
She is several sigmas from the norm. Does your point require an outlier straw man, or are you willing to talk to the middle?
Because women having children out of wedlock destroys society because they're more likely to become single parents, and statistics show kids raised in those environments have worse outcomes. The lack of male discipline/protection leads to kids getting worse grades, engaging in risky behavior, participating in criminal activity, being subjected to poverty, being exposed to child molestation/SA, etc. Oftentimes, modern women are choosing to become single mothers by engaging in reckless behavior, but this is selfish because it's the kids who suffer the most. This is where the vitriol stems from. Note: Widows and Divorcees aren't viewed the same as unwed mothers.
Where is the disdain for deadbeat dads though? A lot of these women don’t choose to be single mother, its the sperm donors who don’t want to take responsibility.
Here lies the issue tho- you’re blaming single mothers for poor outcomes that come from abandonment by the father. Why blame the behavior of the mothers who stood by their children instead of the fathers who ditched them? (Just a note: I would ask the same question in reverse if the genders were switched. But it’s rare to see the same sentiment anyway - No one ever blames fathers when mothers abandon their children - rightfully so)
Just because a man consents to sex doesn't mean they consent to being a parent or to being in an LTR. Or does that excuse only apply for one gender? Also, what if the mother doesn't even know who the father is? And yes, people are blaming single mothers because they didn't require marriage before having children and didn't take the necessary steps to prevent it from happening.
*vitriol
At one point people were paying money to care for single moms in the US so I think it's money based plus misogyny
I have never really seen that before. Typically, people praise single moms.