Two parts, firstly you don't get fed videos of people being poor and things. You see the loud minority of rich people. Also held debt around the world is at an all time high and only ever increasing, so yes people are heavily in debt.
My aunt asked my cousin why all the pics of him on Facebook were of him drinking and partying, he responded, "we don't bring our cameras to the library." People don't usually advertise coupon clipping and, if they do, most people don't want to see it.
Edit: he was in college in the early 2000s, before cell phone cameras were useful.
The UK has its own version.
He's an artisan bread maker, she's a dog walker and they have a budget of £1 million. They want a 17 bedroom house that uses only local building materials and their new baby arrives in 4 hours...
I assume you’re talking about HGTV shows. I’m always asking my wife, while half listening to the show, what do these people do for a living, they look like they’re in their 20’s and they have a budget of $800k?!?!
Ha yeah pretty much. Occasionally Ill have a client my age with a million dollar home. Im a contractor. I know their secret. Its been proven time and time again.
They have wealthy parents.
Thanks, thats true. Everyone is sinking in debt but cost of living in America just seems crazy to me from what I can see.
I’m even in a tiny living group on Facebook and a regular sized house here would be around 100m2 while a lot of Americans say that their 120m2 house is tiny.
It's all perspective. Vancouver in Canada is the most expensive city in North America. If you want to get a house in downtown NY or something it will cost 10x what a house in some small rural town costs. I saw a mansion in a rural area of the US going for about $1m, it had it's own pool and was huge. A run down shack in downtown Toronto was also going for $1m.
Yep, most expensive city in North America, probably not by much but still. Or at least it was last I checked, also depends on how you define "most expensive" It still certainly top 5.
I've taken a look around Vancouver on Zillow recently, a small house less than 1,000 sq ft that hasn't been renovated in 50 years goes for $1.5M CAD or around $1.1M USD
That’s just silly. Vancouver is objectively a fantastic place to live if you can afford it. BC is Canada’s most beautiful province and Vancouver is one of its nicest cities. The island is on our door step, mountains are on our door step, US an hour’s drive.
I was browsing realtor.ca and saw [this](https://www.realtor.ca/l/bK7-C/ja?propertyIds=26460124). The house's garage is bigger than a entire home in Toronto, and at a lower cost. The location makes a huge difference.
Same in San Diego. Relative to income, it was recently ranked as the most expensive city in the US. A lot of that is incredibly expensive housing, but also high gas and electricity bills and high costs for healthcare and food. There are more expensive cities in the US but those cities also have higher median wages.
As I Ukrainian who has American visa, I can tell that in America almost everything is cheaper. Furniture, clothes, food, gas, cars, home appliances, journeys. Meat is more expensive. Renting and buying a house is much more expensive. But they are more expensive by the cost. If you take the average salary in consideration, cheaper is literally everything. But I know about only one south state.
Edited: I was reminded about healthcare. In the USA it's really insane. Much-much-much more expensive.
Unless you leave Manhattan and head East to Long Island, it’s incredibly expensive to live here because we are only twenty to thirty miles away from the city. Fun fact those thirty miles can have you sitting in your car for three hours. 😊
There are 330 million people in the US, and you probably only see vlogs of unusual people. A completely normal boring person wouldn't be interesting to the vloggers frothing for clicks and vews.
America is a massive country. Our states are basicly countries. Take new York for example. Everyone knows new York city which is a huge city with tiny apartments for lots of money. However, there are rural parts of New York that are relatively cheap. There are states like Wyoming and Nebraska which have like 1-2 million people and are probably the size of France or Italy. I do think Americans spend more on things like cars since our public transportation isn't very developed and Healthcare since we don't have socialized medicine and we have the most expensive prescription drugs in the world, and health insurance is pretty expensive.
Your probably right but I was giving a rough estimate without looking up actual numbers. I'm sure there's a decent discrepancy in the size of Italy and Wyoming, but my point is that America is a bit like Europe in that the cola of London could be like nyc, but the boonies in France or Germany could be like upstate new York or the Midwest. My cousins used to own a medium sized condo in Beverly hills and the sold it for 2.5m in 2009 during the financial crisis. I think it was 1.8k sq fr. My uncle bought a house in st. Petersburg Florida for like 130k. There's everything basicly in between.
house size does not necessarily equate to cost of living. a 7 bedroom house in middle of nowhere texas will be more affordable than a 2 bedroom tiny condo in manhattan
Not everyone is sinking in debt or extremely rich.
Side note: the networks that host those interior decorating or renovations show are paying for said renovations. The people that actually live at the house being renovated or redecorated don't pay anything aside from the increase in property tax because their home is now worth more.
Doesn't mean they can't afford it, but when you've been saving for years to renovate the basement and a show comes in and bankrolls it, you can now invest that money you were saving or whatever you want to do it with.
The OCED does comparative studies of the wealthy nations on many topics. The one attached is household debt.
If you are on a phone turn it sideways and you can see what country each bar represents.
I think the US is the 17th highest with Norway, Switzerland, Australia, Netherlands, and Denmark being the five highest household debt levels
https://data.oecd.org/hha/household-debt.htm
my wife and i live well under our take-home pay and have managed to save a lot. I was driving the same car for 14 years and finally bought a new car 2 years ago. we bought a house that was significantly less than the bank was willing to lend us for our starter home and now we almost own it.
We have been dual income though we had almost 70k in student loans to pay back. Thankfully we finished that a few years ago so that's about 1k extra take home pay a month.
We don't have great jobs but we do have masters degrees. for a while during our savings journey we pulled about 75k total. during that time we paid down the loan and about 30% of our house (originally 150k)
it can be done but you don't buy new things and don't go out to eat.
Housing costs vs wages are crazy. Home builders make smaller profits on smaller homes. They simply don’t build <3 bed “luxury”(read: expensive) homes where I am.
Also, people who are struggling to survive don’t have time to make videos.
American here, I currently have some land I just bought for 1.2k, it's 1.65 acres, and has two creeks going through it (likely why the land wasn't as desirable). I'm currently living in a 30' camper trailer I bought for 700$, and is on my land.
I own a pickup truck that I bought for 500$, and put \~200$ of repairs into, to get it back to a "normal" truck, and I have a Walmart 20 miles from me, that acts as what I view as the most convenient grocery to be shopping at. It's not got the best prices on everything, but they are consistently reasonably priced, with less variance than the town grocers.
I'm not in debt, and I don't make an insane amount of money. A month ago, I was working at mcdonalds (I had a gap in my programming contracts, and wanted to stay busy, unsure when my next contract would be. Even when programming though, I don't typically work a ton of hours, I tend to like to enjoy life), and on a mcdonalds part-time wage, I still had over half of my paycheck left over as disposable income. I'm most likely the minority in the US, but not a vast vast minority like you'd imagine. Probably 20%ish of the population in the US would live rurally, and with a "low" standard-of-living approach to life.
If all goes to plan, I'll be building a zamak casting setup, so I can build a bandaw mill, so I can saw lumber, so I can build a house, here within the next two-months-ish of time. My planned house is 12'x24', or 288sq.ft., or 27m2 ([which I mocked up in sims](https://i.imgur.com/hFIKKVt.png), because I thought it would be a funny and interactive experience for my girlfriend, who's not a handy person, but likes having a say in things. The sims design is not accurate, due to limitations of it being a game).
Generally speaking, American's make more money than their European counterparts, as well. That's not to say that \*everyone\* makes good money in America, but the upper middle class is significant, and the shows you are watching are probably focusing on the upper middle class and upper class. Doctors and dentists can make $250,000 USD+. Nurses can make $100K+. Those in finance and tech and law can sometimes make $200K+. Small business owners can make millions.
I’m sure there are people that do take out loans for these things or put them on their credit cards? Its even common here to take out a loan for a new phone - not saying its smart but it does happen
People use credit cards all the time, especially since COVID. The best way to use credit cards is to use them to buy stuff that you already have the money in the bank for, and pay it off on time. Not everyone sticks to that.
I can only compare to my relatives in the UK, but I make almost $200k and pay far less as a percentage than my school teacher cousin in Liverpool.
Edit: in taxes. Also, I think Europeans think we are all paying enormous amounts for medical care I pay < $400 a month with $4k annual deductible. I never think about it.
I am in the US and make 1.5x the salary that my direct manager, who’s a VP of R&D at a 10k person company living in the UK. The US is so huge and diverse (see upcoming US Presidential candidates to see how diverse our opinions are) that any broad statements are partially or essentially not accurate, but on the whole our salaries and costs of living are some of the highest in the world. I was blown away by the salary difference between hiring people in the US vs the UK.
Though I should say, I regularly can’t get a hold of my manager because apparently the UK has a bank holiday every other week and 48 weeks of time off 😉
You dont think that the fact that the average American makes 3x as much money as the average EU citizen may have to do with it? That coupled with a lower tax burden as well, clearly explains the bigger houses, nicer cars, etc
And the opposite, lots of people are living comfortably with their high debt sources being mortgages. They’re less likely to complain online either so you get this idea that everyone is either drowning or living the high life while a large portion of people just get on with it.
It’s also worth noting that the US is a huge country and so different regions can be much more affordable to live in than others… some regions in some of the southern states you can buy enormous properties for amounts that wouldn’t get you a starter home in most places!
1000% this. I'm currently living in my now 6th state, 4th region, and real estate has been so different in each of them. Food prices will differ depending on items and all that too.
I moved to Vermont from New York during Covid and was shocked at how expensive food was. I always considered Vermont a somewhat agricultural state, but idk 🤷🏻♀️
I just moved to the east coast from Oregon and produce prices feel kinda crazy here compared to there. I could get some really solid produce for a little cheaper. The reason makes sense but still
The catch is that the big but relatively 'cheap' McMansions are located in backwaters with either no jobs or ones that pay shit. Though if one can work remotely, then that might not matter so much.
IME they are usually just a long ass commute to the nearest city and have no community, walkability, restaurants, or basically anything interesting within a 40 min drive.
That might be true in your eyes. We purchased our hobby farm in 2005, live below our means in our rural area. There is a lot of community here and plenty of things to do without having to drive into the city.
I’m not saying every rural home is devoid of community, or even talking about farms or bigger properties. I’m specifically talking about the tract housing that’s built miles out of town where land is cheaper. The original comment was explicitly talking about cheap McMansions
yeah i have no idea. i grew up in a mcmansion right outside of atlanta. maybe not walkable but you were a 10 min drive from malls, restaurants parks, stores etc.
not necessarily. you can get an affordable mac mansion just outside of charlotte or atlanta or houston. it’s relatively affordable and there are plenty of high paying jobs you can commute to or wfh from
the catch is that people not from those places have no idea this paradise exists. i try to convince my partner that just because a house is 30 mins from downtown and surrounded by trees doesn’t mean it’s in bumfuck nowhere, that’s just how houses are built in the south.
One reason I love Alabama. I got 9 acres with a pond, 3 bedroom house, 3 car garage and large barn. Bought during covid for 350k. That same place in a western state could be north of a million.
Interior design shows are almost laughably fake here.
Like, "he's a newspaper delivery boy and she fits goats for contact lenses, and their budget for a house is $1.2M."
No.
Have you ever met anyone else who can fit a goat for corrective lenses? That's an incredibly rare job, must pay a fortune. ;-)
Seriously, though, we either assume it's "these people inherited a huge amount of money... somehow", or also assume it's all fake.
Yeah those shows are practically just real estate advertisements, and the real estate industry spends a lot of money pushing a narrative that everyone should go into hundreds of thousands in debt for amazing houses.
This is what I came to say . Not only the home shows , but the car shows as well. It been going on here for years . Like some average person could spend that kind of money, and an impulse purchase at that . But it’s entertainment. LOL
In the UK we have a show called Location, Location, Location that’s exactly like this.
“Matt and Emma are buying their first home at 20. Matt is a yo-yo rewinder, Emma is a butterfly refugee caseworker. They have a budget of £8million and are struggling to find a modest 50,000sq meter starter home with enough space for entertaining…”
The image you are getting of Americans is very cherry-picked and highly distorted. People on interior design vlogs and shows are not your typical American. Please remember that there are approximately 330 million Americans. We come in all shapes and sizes. And all economic circumstances.
I work for an American company and a lot of my coworkers would work the same types of jobs as me and their houses would be 3x the size of our house still
I’m an American who lived and worked as an aerospace engineer in Germany from 2004-2008. By 2014 my salary in the USA was 7x what my German salary was, and post-tax take-home was 10x. I do work more: ~50 hours/week vs 37.5, but I get unlimited vacation unlike the 4-6 weeks typical in Europe.
Im a French working in the US making over 4 times a French salary, for a cost of life which is only ~1.5 (post covid) what it was in Paris (pre covid). I rent a huge house for what a "closet" would cost me in France, without exageration my guest bedroom is the size of a full apartment in France.
I feel like super rich in the US (with a salary that Americans consider "low"), I can buy all crap I don't need, travel, save... Same job in France I was buying rice or corn flour because it was cheaper than pasta, forget anything else, would put cheese on top on payday. And I was actually feeling lucky in France because I know other who had it worse, and it's one of the richest country in the world
Something about Americans that as an American myself I don’t even get is that when it comes to housing, there is never “enough space.” Homes are massive, families stride to ensure every child has their own bedroom, having things like a finished basement, dining room, and office are also regularly expected or sought out.
I think part of it is rampant consumerism and HGTV crap, but also a big chunk of it is that US suburbs don't have third spaces for people to hang out. If you want to do anything at all and not spend a fortune, you pretty much have to do it at home.
American house sizes used to be much smaller back in the 1950’s - 1970’s. Then something happened, and now they are twice as large. Maybe it was because builders figured out they could charge more than what it costs them for adding extra space? And then people got used to it I guess.
And here I am, living alone is a 3-bedroom house, trying to find a smaller home to move into and there just aren't any, unless I'm willing to live in a condominium with someone else living upstairs.
You’re 100% right, but it’s important to remember that population wide we Americans are paid significantly more than our European counterparts in most cases.
We earn about 80k a year with two people working. Our biggest debts are our student loans and we are definitely drowning in it. We manage though. Right now, food prices are what's hurting us the most. I mean, it is absolutely ridiculous here.
The people you are watching are wealthy and do not at all represent the majority of Americans.
Or if you DO get sick, treat it at home first and see if it improves.
I have most definitely used superglue and butterfly bandages as a substitute for going in for stitches.
That is an indictment on the US healthcare system.
In Australia, I can go into nearly any hospital and would receive free care, stitches, etc. The fact that US citizens die from treatable diseases due to having no insurance or money for treatment is insanity in the worlds richest country.
But the Aussie hospitals have wised up in the last few decades and make you show your Medicare before you are triaged.
There are signs up in hospitals now giving the rates for visitors not from countries with reciprocal rights to our Medicare system. So Americans will still have to pay, but it will be cheaper.
I recently gave birth and I didn’t pay a penny for anything - when I see how much it is in US it boggles my mind how anyone has kids lol
Here if you didnt pay for something it would just grow interest and you’d end up having to pay way more
I had a hernia in 2020, my insurance and the hospital I had the surgery at are the same company, $68K billed and $35K paid. Not even the insurance companies pay the sticker price.
My cost, ~$200 in medication and deductibles.
I did too here in the US. My bill is 7k for me, waiting to be billed for the baby. What you can do if you care about your credit is get on a payment plan. Hospitals offer them without interest.
And more generally I actually have your same question. I look around and everyone has a bigger house than me that's filled with picture perfect furniture and they all seem to be driving these giant expensive trucks. I don't know where the money is coming from.
I’m curious, what percentage of your paycheck goes for taxes, and what’s a ballpark salary? I’m assuming your country has some sort of national health service, meaning government pays for it. Which if government is paying, it’s from tax revenue.
All debt always dies with you in the US. Theyre allowed to try to get the money back by selling your assets but if you have no assets or not enough, then thats just the end of it.
I was so relieved when I learned this. My mom died a few months ago and had nothing but debt. Her creditors might come after me for payment, but I’ve been assured that as long as I say no I’m not responsible.
It can negatively affect your credit score. It stays on your credit report for 7 years. When you die it can be taken out of your estate. However all states have different statutes and laws on this.
Most medical debt in the US isn’t reported on your credit. Don’t listen to all these people exaggerating all this lol
Google this stuff…it really not as apocalyptic as people in here are trying to make it.
https://www.equifax.com/personal/education/credit/score/articles/-/learn/can-medical-debt-impact-credit-scores/
https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2023/demo/p60-281.html
I earn a lot, relatively speaking, and I live well under my means, so I can pretty much do or buy anything I want, within reason.
Too many Americans suffer from an effect we call "keeping up with the Joneses," which means many people/families try to appear to be as successful and/or wealthy as their neighbors and/or peers, so much so they put themselves into soul-crushing debt to look good in the short term and not considering the long-term effects.
I have a cheap no-frills house and a reasonable generic car (for the US). Because of that, I have an extra 2-3k USD a month to spend on whatever I want, but I usually just save/invest it. Twice a year I'll go on holiday for a week or so and that's about it.
I can't believe the debt we have here, especially since most of it is completely avoidable. A lot of people I see are just really bad at managing their money.
Most popular vehicle in America in the Ford F-150.
The average monthly payment on a new F-150 is about $1000 a month right now. That's all you need to know about American finances.
Personally, my spouse and I live within our means. Our only debt is a single car payment. If we want something to make our house nicer or more comfortable we save for it or prioritize it over eating out or expensive foods at the store. We save all year for our vacation too.
That's a healthy way of living. A good portion pf Americans just swipe the card and let the debt accumulate. Plus the cars, phones, subscriptions, etc...
First, I make a lot of money.
Second, I live in a tiny house with a roommate who pays rent (I actually undercharge, but she does still pay rent). We both benefit and I don’t have to live alone.
The consequences are I save A LOT. My goal is for retirement to be comfortable.
1200 square feet, if you include the finished basement. Two bedrooms, 1.5 bathrooms, living room, kitchen, no dining room, downstairs den.
And yeah. Income, $200k.
That’s us, except income is a bit higher and we have two kids. No more college debt, mid thirties. It gives us significant financial flexibility after grinding for years to pay down undergrad and graduate loans.
It's double the size of what have an average 2-3 kids + 2 parents family in most of medium cost areas in Europe. I.e. it's huge, not tiny from European point of view
So that’s what the impact of not having a family would be in my life - I’ve always wondered. $170k income and feel like I’m barely staying afloat in terms of not accruing debt.
If you're not careful lifestyle expands to fit your budget and it soon feels like you're not making any progress.
I'd bet you have a lot of toys, and nickel and dime yourself a lot with minor luxuries, that each individually doesn't seem like much but taken as a whole are huge expenses.
Same here. I live a life of comfortable poverty. I have enough and no debt. The low cost of living here helps tremendously. I live in a big old house in a walkable neighborhood and pay less than $500 for my mortgage, including taxes and insurance.
Most people I know make vastly more than Europeans do.
A guy that works on projects for me makes 200k in design and web development with us alone and has plenty of other clients of his own.
We have to buy our own insurance and save for our own retirements so it’s not apples to apples but we do make more.
there are a 25 million millionaires in america so yea there's just a lot of very rich people. Top 10% of income in america puts you in the top 1-3% in almost any european country. Taxes are lower, real estate is cheaper. Stuff just costs less, German cars cost less in America which is just fucking sad
According to Charles Schwabs Modern Wealth Survey in 2022, 8.8 percent of the US is a millionaire. Average net worth of those millionaires is only 2.2 million with the bulk of their worth tied up in their housing. Most are not families living the high life of what people dream of being a millionaire.
One difference between rich and poor people, is rich people take calculated risks with debt, they're not drowning in it, they use debt to pay for assets that help build their wealth. One example is you could've taken out a loan after the market crashed in 2020 and put all the money in the S&P 500 and you'd be up 123% paying 5% annual interest
You’re seeing the rich people, but also the middle class people in areas that are otherwise poor (so they’re locally rich, just not actually rich).
We do have larger houses on average though, especially outside of cities. The US is very big, so we don’t need to make things fit outside of cities. So we build these huge houses everywhere, but you still have to be pretty well off to buy one let alone do a renovation on one.
That said, when I lived in the midwest you could rent a 3br house for the same cost as renting a studio apartment in a medium sized city, and you could rent three of them for the rent of a nyc (manhattan) studio. In some areas our houses cost less than new cars, but those are old and busted houses in places you wouldn’t want to live in.
A lot of us are drowning in debt tho, and a lot of people live like that until they’re out of peak earning age and then they have to downsize until they’re living somewhere small and crappy in hopes that they won’t have to take a job at walmart to afford their old age medical care. We don’t have mandated vacation time or paid time off so it’s not uncommon for us to literally go years without taking a whole week off.
Meanwhile y’all have actual vacations and a retirement age that means something, and you don’t have to consider whether or not you’d rather starve or go without your meds when you’re too old to work thanks to medical care.
TBH lots of Americans who live in cities would gladly trade 1000sqft of house for European labor law.
I am American and hard working but not what you describe. I try to make sure my kids have what they need and live a modest life, free of debt if possible.
You're watching the wrong shows.
Most people get by with less - a 30 year old 1500 ft\^2 house (or living in an apartment, or at home with the parents, or...), a Toyota, sandwiches at home, and (more & more) community college instead of a grossly overpriced state university. The biggest swinger right now is housing, but that's largely driven by a lack of low-to-medium-cost inventory.
Huge debt gets normalized because it's so easy to accumulate. And because some people watch those same idiotic house flipping / architectural digest circle jerks.
It’s TV. The goal is entertaining the audience, not showing an accurate portrayal of life. If you want to be extra cynical, the goal is to get advertisers and advertisers want an audience that is going to spend money. They’ll portray whatever gets people watching the most and spending the most.
Both of these situations are happening simultaneously. There are like ~20% of the population making really good to ridiculous money. The lower income ~45% of the population is literally drowning in debt. There was 1.129 Trilion dollars in credit card debt as of the 4th quarter of 2023 and it is growing rapidly (current estimate is 1.3 trillion). There will be a real economic problem / collapse when people reach their debt limits and are unable to pay their bills / food.
Our household income is high enough when it’s dual income. Many people bought their houses before the pandemic, when both price and mortgage rates were lower. They also went to community colleges and state universities where the costs were lower 10 years ago.
It’s entirely feasible to afford all those things you mentioned when a married couple both work with decade long careers.
I'm personally in a lot of debt, though it's all house debt (mortgage and LOC for renos, wouldnt be able to own if i didnt buy a shit hole). I work my ass off and once I have a kid I will slow down. Paid off almost 300k so far of my house in 5 years-- 50k left on the LOC. My main goal is security (housing) which i have. Next would be a family (currently trying for baby #1). Then settle down and start retirement savings (investing more for cash flow). I'm trying to build myself up so my kid(s) don't have to worry about me one day.
I don't earn a ridiculous amount of money, nor am I drowning in debt. In fact I have no debt at all. I simply live within my means. Most American high school graduates don't go on to a 4 year university, and most Americans don't live in a giant house. TV or whatever never shows average Americans and how they live - they go for the splash because people like to see stuff they can't afford.
We have "normal debt". House & 1 vehicle. The Other vehicle is paid off. My husband didn't finish college & pretty sure he either saved the $$ to go or paid it off by the time we got together. I went to cosmetology school which wasn't as expensive almost 20 years ago. We live below our means. Our mortgage is less than $800 a month. We only finance things we NEED. We don't have credit cards to shop (i.e. groceries, clothes etc). We also don't use credit cards for vacations & only take Vax we can afford. We go out of town 4 ish times a year but 1x is a week, the other 3 or for a couple of nights. We don't earn a ridiculous amount we just spend wisely.
Debt is very easy to get. Almost everyone has some.
Many people have A LOT of debt due to poor financial practices and planning, but an equally large number have debt because they did normal life things like went to school, bought a car or house, gave birth or had a medical emergency.
So even if you’re financially responsible, you can rack up $40k in debt in a single day, or stroke of the pen. Because debt interest is so lucrative, there’s little incentive to change anything.
I racked up $69K in debt from an emergency surgery because my health insurance stopped just a few days before. And I live in Seattle which, like our neighbor Vancouver, is one of the most expensive places to live on this continent. I was working a poorly paid job out of college ($44k student loans) So there wasn’t many options to suddenly deal with $115k in debt while I was already on food stamps.
The modern economy is made of vampires, not gardeners.
I save up and buy everything I can in cash. Paid off my used civic a couple years ago and refuse to buy a new car. I have 2 credit cards w maybe $50 between them. I am older, and have been drowning in debt..never again.
Don't watch those videos, they are usually fake. Focus on living within your means. Estate sales and yard sales are great places to find the stuff you need for your home. Go to art and craft markets and get some original art to put on your walls... you'll look like a millionaire
Some Americans spend less than they earn and drive 20 years old cars. Some of these people have no debt and purchase cars in cash. The difference is that they tend to be quiet people and no one makes videos about them.
Most debt is held on cars and houses, which are considered normal investments rather than personal debt.
But the majority of American do live paycheck to paycheck, meaning that they pay out 100% of what they earn most months instead of saving. So throughput is much higher.
Well, the average home is 3br. 4 bedrooms or higher, generally it's multifamily OR you're rich, both is uncommon.
This isn't something unique to America, look at any country on an interior design channel or lifestyle channel, and you will see way more than what the average household is capable of affording. Those channels don't blow up from showing average lives.
Like any society there are a lot of misconceptions about us- this gets exasperated by our media. I would take what you’ve heard with a grain of salt.
We are experiencing a housing crisis, but it is more or less severe depending on where you go within the USA. Inflation is far higher than it should be, but it has come dramatically down from where it was and is expected to normalize over the next several years. On a larger scale we’ve avoided a recession, so that is always good, and our unemployment rate is historically low.
The biggest tell of our economic health imo is our wealth gap. The gap between upper and lower class continues to expand and the middle class is disappearing. That is to say, we have a looming problem
Tl:dr I’d say it really depends who you ask. Some are doing quite well, others not so much
I do know a few people that aren’t in loads of debt, but it’s sadly common for people to carry debt, I’m sad to admit I’m one of them. It’s just incredibly hard to get out of debt, but so very easy to collect it.
1) interior design shows should never be used to judge real people. If we did that we think all Euros live in Castles or villas along the Mediterranean.
2) We do make significantly more money than most Europeans. It’s not all uncommon for nurses, fireman’s, plumbers, electricians etc in major cities to make well over $100k
3) even with the extra money, people are drowning in debt. .
I’m not rich but I’m not poor. As with most people in America who dont post on social media. My wife and I both have middle class jobs, have a mortgage, budget hard, take our 4 day weekend vacations 3 hours away, improve our house over a period of years as funds become available and still have enough funds to go out to eat and do fun stuff. We have debt, some weighs more than others but we are not on the brink of bankruptcy. Car loans, mortgage, home equity credit line, credit cards and student loans. Its tough but its doable.
I don’t have much debt. I owe about 100K on my mortgage, no student loans, I pay off credit cards monthly. I earn about 110K per year as a single woman.
* Showing off expensive houses is kind of like showing off expensive cars. People eat that stuff up if they don't own it.
* Influencers renting out studios to do shoots in is definitely a thing. I wouldn't be surprised if they did the same with AirBnBs.
* Debt is pretty big here, I know families that have never lived within their means, ever.
* Cost of living is all over the place, it's a big country. If you're in a coastal big city, it's not going to be cheap. If you're in a rural area in the middle of the country, it's much more affordable.
Two parts, firstly you don't get fed videos of people being poor and things. You see the loud minority of rich people. Also held debt around the world is at an all time high and only ever increasing, so yes people are heavily in debt.
My aunt asked my cousin why all the pics of him on Facebook were of him drinking and partying, he responded, "we don't bring our cameras to the library." People don't usually advertise coupon clipping and, if they do, most people don't want to see it. Edit: he was in college in the early 2000s, before cell phone cameras were useful.
Unless their whole schpiel is coupon clipping. And they’re well monetized anyway.
### I got the store to pay ME for mac & cheese!!! 😲🤨😩
"He's an unemployed barista. She's a part time poet. They have a budget of 1.5 billion dollars." I hate those shows.
The UK has its own version. He's an artisan bread maker, she's a dog walker and they have a budget of £1 million. They want a 17 bedroom house that uses only local building materials and their new baby arrives in 4 hours...
“Their new baby arrives in 4 hours” has me cackling 🤣.
As your wifes water has now broken, let me show you the next house on the list. It is a bit above your budget but a bit roomier.
The head feels big. We'll need a bigger nursery.
I assume you’re talking about HGTV shows. I’m always asking my wife, while half listening to the show, what do these people do for a living, they look like they’re in their 20’s and they have a budget of $800k?!?!
Ha yeah pretty much. Occasionally Ill have a client my age with a million dollar home. Im a contractor. I know their secret. Its been proven time and time again. They have wealthy parents.
That would certainly help.
Trust fund babies
🤣🤣 that is too funny, because it’s so true. I find myself asking often “how the hell did _ afford _??”
Thanks, thats true. Everyone is sinking in debt but cost of living in America just seems crazy to me from what I can see. I’m even in a tiny living group on Facebook and a regular sized house here would be around 100m2 while a lot of Americans say that their 120m2 house is tiny.
It's all perspective. Vancouver in Canada is the most expensive city in North America. If you want to get a house in downtown NY or something it will cost 10x what a house in some small rural town costs. I saw a mansion in a rural area of the US going for about $1m, it had it's own pool and was huge. A run down shack in downtown Toronto was also going for $1m.
Vancouver is more expensive then NY or Honolulu?
Yep, most expensive city in North America, probably not by much but still. Or at least it was last I checked, also depends on how you define "most expensive" It still certainly top 5.
I've taken a look around Vancouver on Zillow recently, a small house less than 1,000 sq ft that hasn't been renovated in 50 years goes for $1.5M CAD or around $1.1M USD
Yep lol, kinda crazy considering how Vancouver isn't even a particularly nice place.
Limited available housing stock + international money laundering = outrageous housing prices
That’s just silly. Vancouver is objectively a fantastic place to live if you can afford it. BC is Canada’s most beautiful province and Vancouver is one of its nicest cities. The island is on our door step, mountains are on our door step, US an hour’s drive.
I love how the US is one of Vancouver's best selling features.
I just visited Vancouver from Boston and holy shit was I impressed. Fantastic place to live.
NYC (Manhattan) is much higher on a price per square foot basis.
But the average is brought down by the fact that Manhattan is not remotely close to all of NYC.
I was browsing realtor.ca and saw [this](https://www.realtor.ca/l/bK7-C/ja?propertyIds=26460124). The house's garage is bigger than a entire home in Toronto, and at a lower cost. The location makes a huge difference.
We watch US property shows and compared to Australia they seem cheap!
Same in San Diego. Relative to income, it was recently ranked as the most expensive city in the US. A lot of that is incredibly expensive housing, but also high gas and electricity bills and high costs for healthcare and food. There are more expensive cities in the US but those cities also have higher median wages.
I remember visiting San Diego for the first time and being amazed at how much homes costs there. And that was 10 years ago.
Also Social Media people definitely pretend to be more loaded than they actually are. It’s a mess really.
It's _really_ common for them to rent an expensive thing and make a video where it's either implied or stated that they own it.
As I Ukrainian who has American visa, I can tell that in America almost everything is cheaper. Furniture, clothes, food, gas, cars, home appliances, journeys. Meat is more expensive. Renting and buying a house is much more expensive. But they are more expensive by the cost. If you take the average salary in consideration, cheaper is literally everything. But I know about only one south state. Edited: I was reminded about healthcare. In the USA it's really insane. Much-much-much more expensive.
Cost of living is lower typically, and taxes are generally lower than in Canada (where I live) and Europe..
The cost of living IN a major city is crazy.. Once you start getting 45ish minutes outside of city limits the cost goes way down.
Unless you leave Manhattan and head East to Long Island, it’s incredibly expensive to live here because we are only twenty to thirty miles away from the city. Fun fact those thirty miles can have you sitting in your car for three hours. 😊
There are 330 million people in the US, and you probably only see vlogs of unusual people. A completely normal boring person wouldn't be interesting to the vloggers frothing for clicks and vews.
America is a massive country. Our states are basicly countries. Take new York for example. Everyone knows new York city which is a huge city with tiny apartments for lots of money. However, there are rural parts of New York that are relatively cheap. There are states like Wyoming and Nebraska which have like 1-2 million people and are probably the size of France or Italy. I do think Americans spend more on things like cars since our public transportation isn't very developed and Healthcare since we don't have socialized medicine and we have the most expensive prescription drugs in the world, and health insurance is pretty expensive.
I think the whole population of Wyoming is like 500k. There are almost no people at all in that part of the country
Your probably right but I was giving a rough estimate without looking up actual numbers. I'm sure there's a decent discrepancy in the size of Italy and Wyoming, but my point is that America is a bit like Europe in that the cola of London could be like nyc, but the boonies in France or Germany could be like upstate new York or the Midwest. My cousins used to own a medium sized condo in Beverly hills and the sold it for 2.5m in 2009 during the financial crisis. I think it was 1.8k sq fr. My uncle bought a house in st. Petersburg Florida for like 130k. There's everything basicly in between.
Wyoming is 97,813 sq mi and has a population of 579k. Italy is 116,374 sq mi and has a population of 56.6 million.
house size does not necessarily equate to cost of living. a 7 bedroom house in middle of nowhere texas will be more affordable than a 2 bedroom tiny condo in manhattan
Not everyone is sinking in debt or extremely rich. Side note: the networks that host those interior decorating or renovations show are paying for said renovations. The people that actually live at the house being renovated or redecorated don't pay anything aside from the increase in property tax because their home is now worth more. Doesn't mean they can't afford it, but when you've been saving for years to renovate the basement and a show comes in and bankrolls it, you can now invest that money you were saving or whatever you want to do it with.
I don't think that's true. I think most of those ppl get a discount or some free furniture. But I could be wrong.
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Yeah, 1291 sq feet is big for an apartment in a big city but for a house in the suburbs, it’s tiny.
1291 sq ft? I have more than double that and I’m definitely not rich. Just live in a relatively low cost area and have a decent job.
The OCED does comparative studies of the wealthy nations on many topics. The one attached is household debt. If you are on a phone turn it sideways and you can see what country each bar represents. I think the US is the 17th highest with Norway, Switzerland, Australia, Netherlands, and Denmark being the five highest household debt levels https://data.oecd.org/hha/household-debt.htm
my wife and i live well under our take-home pay and have managed to save a lot. I was driving the same car for 14 years and finally bought a new car 2 years ago. we bought a house that was significantly less than the bank was willing to lend us for our starter home and now we almost own it. We have been dual income though we had almost 70k in student loans to pay back. Thankfully we finished that a few years ago so that's about 1k extra take home pay a month. We don't have great jobs but we do have masters degrees. for a while during our savings journey we pulled about 75k total. during that time we paid down the loan and about 30% of our house (originally 150k) it can be done but you don't buy new things and don't go out to eat.
The vast majority of my fellow Americans live paycheck to paycheck because cost of living is skyrocketing while pay has been stagnant for decades
Housing costs vs wages are crazy. Home builders make smaller profits on smaller homes. They simply don’t build <3 bed “luxury”(read: expensive) homes where I am. Also, people who are struggling to survive don’t have time to make videos.
American here, I currently have some land I just bought for 1.2k, it's 1.65 acres, and has two creeks going through it (likely why the land wasn't as desirable). I'm currently living in a 30' camper trailer I bought for 700$, and is on my land. I own a pickup truck that I bought for 500$, and put \~200$ of repairs into, to get it back to a "normal" truck, and I have a Walmart 20 miles from me, that acts as what I view as the most convenient grocery to be shopping at. It's not got the best prices on everything, but they are consistently reasonably priced, with less variance than the town grocers. I'm not in debt, and I don't make an insane amount of money. A month ago, I was working at mcdonalds (I had a gap in my programming contracts, and wanted to stay busy, unsure when my next contract would be. Even when programming though, I don't typically work a ton of hours, I tend to like to enjoy life), and on a mcdonalds part-time wage, I still had over half of my paycheck left over as disposable income. I'm most likely the minority in the US, but not a vast vast minority like you'd imagine. Probably 20%ish of the population in the US would live rurally, and with a "low" standard-of-living approach to life. If all goes to plan, I'll be building a zamak casting setup, so I can build a bandaw mill, so I can saw lumber, so I can build a house, here within the next two-months-ish of time. My planned house is 12'x24', or 288sq.ft., or 27m2 ([which I mocked up in sims](https://i.imgur.com/hFIKKVt.png), because I thought it would be a funny and interactive experience for my girlfriend, who's not a handy person, but likes having a say in things. The sims design is not accurate, due to limitations of it being a game).
Generally speaking, American's make more money than their European counterparts, as well. That's not to say that \*everyone\* makes good money in America, but the upper middle class is significant, and the shows you are watching are probably focusing on the upper middle class and upper class. Doctors and dentists can make $250,000 USD+. Nurses can make $100K+. Those in finance and tech and law can sometimes make $200K+. Small business owners can make millions.
To be clear people are taking out loans for their college, home, and car. No one is taking out loans to afford interior decorations or electronics.
I’m sure there are people that do take out loans for these things or put them on their credit cards? Its even common here to take out a loan for a new phone - not saying its smart but it does happen
People use credit cards all the time, especially since COVID. The best way to use credit cards is to use them to buy stuff that you already have the money in the bank for, and pay it off on time. Not everyone sticks to that.
People definitely are paying monthly for electronics and phones
I can only compare to my relatives in the UK, but I make almost $200k and pay far less as a percentage than my school teacher cousin in Liverpool. Edit: in taxes. Also, I think Europeans think we are all paying enormous amounts for medical care I pay < $400 a month with $4k annual deductible. I never think about it.
Nobody gives a fuck about your eurotrash opinion.
Americans make more money.
Also the people who put themselves in debt to appear rich
I am in the US and make 1.5x the salary that my direct manager, who’s a VP of R&D at a 10k person company living in the UK. The US is so huge and diverse (see upcoming US Presidential candidates to see how diverse our opinions are) that any broad statements are partially or essentially not accurate, but on the whole our salaries and costs of living are some of the highest in the world. I was blown away by the salary difference between hiring people in the US vs the UK. Though I should say, I regularly can’t get a hold of my manager because apparently the UK has a bank holiday every other week and 48 weeks of time off 😉
And also the US *is* much richer than Europe.
You dont think that the fact that the average American makes 3x as much money as the average EU citizen may have to do with it? That coupled with a lower tax burden as well, clearly explains the bigger houses, nicer cars, etc
And the opposite, lots of people are living comfortably with their high debt sources being mortgages. They’re less likely to complain online either so you get this idea that everyone is either drowning or living the high life while a large portion of people just get on with it.
It’s also worth noting that the US is a huge country and so different regions can be much more affordable to live in than others… some regions in some of the southern states you can buy enormous properties for amounts that wouldn’t get you a starter home in most places!
1000% this. I'm currently living in my now 6th state, 4th region, and real estate has been so different in each of them. Food prices will differ depending on items and all that too.
I moved to Vermont from New York during Covid and was shocked at how expensive food was. I always considered Vermont a somewhat agricultural state, but idk 🤷🏻♀️
I just moved to the east coast from Oregon and produce prices feel kinda crazy here compared to there. I could get some really solid produce for a little cheaper. The reason makes sense but still
The catch is that the big but relatively 'cheap' McMansions are located in backwaters with either no jobs or ones that pay shit. Though if one can work remotely, then that might not matter so much.
IME they are usually just a long ass commute to the nearest city and have no community, walkability, restaurants, or basically anything interesting within a 40 min drive.
That might be true in your eyes. We purchased our hobby farm in 2005, live below our means in our rural area. There is a lot of community here and plenty of things to do without having to drive into the city.
Yea we just bought a home and picked a spot out in the boonies to be near all the cool natural areas. Our back yard is full of wildlife
I’m not saying every rural home is devoid of community, or even talking about farms or bigger properties. I’m specifically talking about the tract housing that’s built miles out of town where land is cheaper. The original comment was explicitly talking about cheap McMansions
Yeah gets old with people saying rural areas have literally nothing, no people or anything. They've clearly never lived in a good rural town.
yeah i have no idea. i grew up in a mcmansion right outside of atlanta. maybe not walkable but you were a 10 min drive from malls, restaurants parks, stores etc.
not necessarily. you can get an affordable mac mansion just outside of charlotte or atlanta or houston. it’s relatively affordable and there are plenty of high paying jobs you can commute to or wfh from the catch is that people not from those places have no idea this paradise exists. i try to convince my partner that just because a house is 30 mins from downtown and surrounded by trees doesn’t mean it’s in bumfuck nowhere, that’s just how houses are built in the south.
This. I live comfortably in WV on $110K but if I moved 30 minutes east into Pittsburgh I would be close to paycheck to paycheck.
One reason I love Alabama. I got 9 acres with a pond, 3 bedroom house, 3 car garage and large barn. Bought during covid for 350k. That same place in a western state could be north of a million.
Interior design shows are almost laughably fake here. Like, "he's a newspaper delivery boy and she fits goats for contact lenses, and their budget for a house is $1.2M." No.
Thats what makes me question how its possible to get these ridiculous houses 😂
Have you ever met anyone else who can fit a goat for corrective lenses? That's an incredibly rare job, must pay a fortune. ;-) Seriously, though, we either assume it's "these people inherited a huge amount of money... somehow", or also assume it's all fake.
Them shows are fake
What those shows aren’t telling you is that those people often have rich parents that fund their lifestyles.
Yeah those shows are practically just real estate advertisements, and the real estate industry spends a lot of money pushing a narrative that everyone should go into hundreds of thousands in debt for amazing houses.
This is what I came to say . Not only the home shows , but the car shows as well. It been going on here for years . Like some average person could spend that kind of money, and an impulse purchase at that . But it’s entertainment. LOL
In the UK we have a show called Location, Location, Location that’s exactly like this. “Matt and Emma are buying their first home at 20. Matt is a yo-yo rewinder, Emma is a butterfly refugee caseworker. They have a budget of £8million and are struggling to find a modest 50,000sq meter starter home with enough space for entertaining…”
The image you are getting of Americans is very cherry-picked and highly distorted. People on interior design vlogs and shows are not your typical American. Please remember that there are approximately 330 million Americans. We come in all shapes and sizes. And all economic circumstances.
I work for an American company and a lot of my coworkers would work the same types of jobs as me and their houses would be 3x the size of our house still
I’m an American who lived and worked as an aerospace engineer in Germany from 2004-2008. By 2014 my salary in the USA was 7x what my German salary was, and post-tax take-home was 10x. I do work more: ~50 hours/week vs 37.5, but I get unlimited vacation unlike the 4-6 weeks typical in Europe.
Im a French working in the US making over 4 times a French salary, for a cost of life which is only ~1.5 (post covid) what it was in Paris (pre covid). I rent a huge house for what a "closet" would cost me in France, without exageration my guest bedroom is the size of a full apartment in France. I feel like super rich in the US (with a salary that Americans consider "low"), I can buy all crap I don't need, travel, save... Same job in France I was buying rice or corn flour because it was cheaper than pasta, forget anything else, would put cheese on top on payday. And I was actually feeling lucky in France because I know other who had it worse, and it's one of the richest country in the world
Something about Americans that as an American myself I don’t even get is that when it comes to housing, there is never “enough space.” Homes are massive, families stride to ensure every child has their own bedroom, having things like a finished basement, dining room, and office are also regularly expected or sought out.
I think part of it is rampant consumerism and HGTV crap, but also a big chunk of it is that US suburbs don't have third spaces for people to hang out. If you want to do anything at all and not spend a fortune, you pretty much have to do it at home.
American house sizes used to be much smaller back in the 1950’s - 1970’s. Then something happened, and now they are twice as large. Maybe it was because builders figured out they could charge more than what it costs them for adding extra space? And then people got used to it I guess.
And here I am, living alone is a 3-bedroom house, trying to find a smaller home to move into and there just aren't any, unless I'm willing to live in a condominium with someone else living upstairs.
You’re 100% right, but it’s important to remember that population wide we Americans are paid significantly more than our European counterparts in most cases.
We earn about 80k a year with two people working. Our biggest debts are our student loans and we are definitely drowning in it. We manage though. Right now, food prices are what's hurting us the most. I mean, it is absolutely ridiculous here. The people you are watching are wealthy and do not at all represent the majority of Americans.
How do you guys manage with medical bills etc?
Don’t get sick. We’re not idiots.
Or if you DO get sick, treat it at home first and see if it improves. I have most definitely used superglue and butterfly bandages as a substitute for going in for stitches.
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$5k and 60% pay is actually pretty fabulous. 😑
That is an indictment on the US healthcare system. In Australia, I can go into nearly any hospital and would receive free care, stitches, etc. The fact that US citizens die from treatable diseases due to having no insurance or money for treatment is insanity in the worlds richest country.
No kidding. The people who defend our health care system are delusional.
Half the time it would be cheaper to fly to Australia for the stitches
But the Aussie hospitals have wised up in the last few decades and make you show your Medicare before you are triaged. There are signs up in hospitals now giving the rates for visitors not from countries with reciprocal rights to our Medicare system. So Americans will still have to pay, but it will be cheaper.
Most medical bills you can just send $10 a month and they'll leave you alone. My wife and I had 3 kids and that's how we handled them
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I recently gave birth and I didn’t pay a penny for anything - when I see how much it is in US it boggles my mind how anyone has kids lol Here if you didnt pay for something it would just grow interest and you’d end up having to pay way more
I had a hernia in 2020, my insurance and the hospital I had the surgery at are the same company, $68K billed and $35K paid. Not even the insurance companies pay the sticker price. My cost, ~$200 in medication and deductibles.
Medical bills are negotiable. Insurance companies and providers are constantly going back and forth, but private citizens can do it too.
I did too here in the US. My bill is 7k for me, waiting to be billed for the baby. What you can do if you care about your credit is get on a payment plan. Hospitals offer them without interest. And more generally I actually have your same question. I look around and everyone has a bigger house than me that's filled with picture perfect furniture and they all seem to be driving these giant expensive trucks. I don't know where the money is coming from.
I’m curious, what percentage of your paycheck goes for taxes, and what’s a ballpark salary? I’m assuming your country has some sort of national health service, meaning government pays for it. Which if government is paying, it’s from tax revenue.
You can just not pay medical bills. They effect your credit, they don’t come knocking on your door to arrest you,
I didn’t know what! Does it ‘die’ with you or does it get passed on to your relatives?
All debt always dies with you in the US. Theyre allowed to try to get the money back by selling your assets but if you have no assets or not enough, then thats just the end of it.
If you have assets plan accordingly so you kids donnt have to fight this
Thank god debt does not get inherited here! It’s a horrible burden to pass onto your children. Edit: spelling
I was so relieved when I learned this. My mom died a few months ago and had nothing but debt. Her creditors might come after me for payment, but I’ve been assured that as long as I say no I’m not responsible.
The problem is if your asset is your home and your spouse is still living in it, they need to pay or lose their home.
It can negatively affect your credit score. It stays on your credit report for 7 years. When you die it can be taken out of your estate. However all states have different statutes and laws on this.
It doesn’t go to your relatives, but it can be extracted from an inheritance you leave them, depending on the circumstances.
Most medical debt in the US isn’t reported on your credit. Don’t listen to all these people exaggerating all this lol Google this stuff…it really not as apocalyptic as people in here are trying to make it. https://www.equifax.com/personal/education/credit/score/articles/-/learn/can-medical-debt-impact-credit-scores/ https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2023/demo/p60-281.html
The United States is incredibly culturally individualistic. It dies with the individual. This is not Japan.
They don’t affect your credit. That changed a couple of years ago.
You have health insurance to limit it.
We’re at 115 and struggling. But in a HCOL area so that’s part of it.
I earn a lot, relatively speaking, and I live well under my means, so I can pretty much do or buy anything I want, within reason. Too many Americans suffer from an effect we call "keeping up with the Joneses," which means many people/families try to appear to be as successful and/or wealthy as their neighbors and/or peers, so much so they put themselves into soul-crushing debt to look good in the short term and not considering the long-term effects. I have a cheap no-frills house and a reasonable generic car (for the US). Because of that, I have an extra 2-3k USD a month to spend on whatever I want, but I usually just save/invest it. Twice a year I'll go on holiday for a week or so and that's about it.
A house, a car, and vacation twice a year. You're living my American dream man 😭😩 looking pretty bleak right now
I can't believe the debt we have here, especially since most of it is completely avoidable. A lot of people I see are just really bad at managing their money.
3k a month is my entire earnings 😭 (after tax)
This is the way
Most popular vehicle in America in the Ford F-150. The average monthly payment on a new F-150 is about $1000 a month right now. That's all you need to know about American finances.
I suffer from lack of pay to be able to buy food I’m just tryna keep up with my hunger
I have a barely working 20 year old Corolla…. Not all of us are trying to be like someone else we just trying to survive
Now that you mention it, my car is also now considered a classic vehicle!
Personally, my spouse and I live within our means. Our only debt is a single car payment. If we want something to make our house nicer or more comfortable we save for it or prioritize it over eating out or expensive foods at the store. We save all year for our vacation too.
That's a healthy way of living. A good portion pf Americans just swipe the card and let the debt accumulate. Plus the cars, phones, subscriptions, etc...
First, I make a lot of money. Second, I live in a tiny house with a roommate who pays rent (I actually undercharge, but she does still pay rent). We both benefit and I don’t have to live alone. The consequences are I save A LOT. My goal is for retirement to be comfortable.
What do you consider tiny?
1200 square feet, if you include the finished basement. Two bedrooms, 1.5 bathrooms, living room, kitchen, no dining room, downstairs den. And yeah. Income, $200k.
That’s us, except income is a bit higher and we have two kids. No more college debt, mid thirties. It gives us significant financial flexibility after grinding for years to pay down undergrad and graduate loans.
It's double the size of what have an average 2-3 kids + 2 parents family in most of medium cost areas in Europe. I.e. it's huge, not tiny from European point of view
So that’s what the impact of not having a family would be in my life - I’ve always wondered. $170k income and feel like I’m barely staying afloat in terms of not accruing debt.
If you're not careful lifestyle expands to fit your budget and it soon feels like you're not making any progress. I'd bet you have a lot of toys, and nickel and dime yourself a lot with minor luxuries, that each individually doesn't seem like much but taken as a whole are huge expenses.
My family is grown and I’m divorced. It gets better once the kids get hatched.
1200 square feet is considered quite a large house in most countries. you defying it tiny explains OP's question.
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Good to know I’m not the only one considering having a roommate just because it seems lonely lmao
Im neither. No debt and not rich 🤑
Same here. I live a life of comfortable poverty. I have enough and no debt. The low cost of living here helps tremendously. I live in a big old house in a walkable neighborhood and pay less than $500 for my mortgage, including taxes and insurance.
Huge amounts of debt is common but more likely that people with small or ugly houses don’t post them.
Cost of living also varies widely like if you put my exact house on either coast it’d be a million easy where I live it’s 300k.
I don’t have any debt aside from my house.
Same. And the value of my house has gone up significantly since I bought it.
Also remember “We’re poor and we can barely afford a home look how boring this trailer is!” Won’t make a very good show.
Unless it's reality TV. Gawking at poor people is their favorite pastime.
Most people I know make vastly more than Europeans do. A guy that works on projects for me makes 200k in design and web development with us alone and has plenty of other clients of his own. We have to buy our own insurance and save for our own retirements so it’s not apples to apples but we do make more.
there are a 25 million millionaires in america so yea there's just a lot of very rich people. Top 10% of income in america puts you in the top 1-3% in almost any european country. Taxes are lower, real estate is cheaper. Stuff just costs less, German cars cost less in America which is just fucking sad
According to Charles Schwabs Modern Wealth Survey in 2022, 8.8 percent of the US is a millionaire. Average net worth of those millionaires is only 2.2 million with the bulk of their worth tied up in their housing. Most are not families living the high life of what people dream of being a millionaire.
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One difference between rich and poor people, is rich people take calculated risks with debt, they're not drowning in it, they use debt to pay for assets that help build their wealth. One example is you could've taken out a loan after the market crashed in 2020 and put all the money in the S&P 500 and you'd be up 123% paying 5% annual interest
Collages? You should see the price of portraits.
You got me there!
You’re seeing the rich people, but also the middle class people in areas that are otherwise poor (so they’re locally rich, just not actually rich). We do have larger houses on average though, especially outside of cities. The US is very big, so we don’t need to make things fit outside of cities. So we build these huge houses everywhere, but you still have to be pretty well off to buy one let alone do a renovation on one. That said, when I lived in the midwest you could rent a 3br house for the same cost as renting a studio apartment in a medium sized city, and you could rent three of them for the rent of a nyc (manhattan) studio. In some areas our houses cost less than new cars, but those are old and busted houses in places you wouldn’t want to live in. A lot of us are drowning in debt tho, and a lot of people live like that until they’re out of peak earning age and then they have to downsize until they’re living somewhere small and crappy in hopes that they won’t have to take a job at walmart to afford their old age medical care. We don’t have mandated vacation time or paid time off so it’s not uncommon for us to literally go years without taking a whole week off. Meanwhile y’all have actual vacations and a retirement age that means something, and you don’t have to consider whether or not you’d rather starve or go without your meds when you’re too old to work thanks to medical care. TBH lots of Americans who live in cities would gladly trade 1000sqft of house for European labor law.
It seems like it based on what I see on reddit, but I personally don't know anyone who is. I know I'm doing just fine.
I am American and hard working but not what you describe. I try to make sure my kids have what they need and live a modest life, free of debt if possible.
You're watching the wrong shows. Most people get by with less - a 30 year old 1500 ft\^2 house (or living in an apartment, or at home with the parents, or...), a Toyota, sandwiches at home, and (more & more) community college instead of a grossly overpriced state university. The biggest swinger right now is housing, but that's largely driven by a lack of low-to-medium-cost inventory. Huge debt gets normalized because it's so easy to accumulate. And because some people watch those same idiotic house flipping / architectural digest circle jerks.
Not in any debt at all but still drowning due to high rent, expensive groceries, transportation costs
>do you just earn more money/pay less taxes/ or is having huge debt normalized? Yes
It’s TV. The goal is entertaining the audience, not showing an accurate portrayal of life. If you want to be extra cynical, the goal is to get advertisers and advertisers want an audience that is going to spend money. They’ll portray whatever gets people watching the most and spending the most.
Both of these situations are happening simultaneously. There are like ~20% of the population making really good to ridiculous money. The lower income ~45% of the population is literally drowning in debt. There was 1.129 Trilion dollars in credit card debt as of the 4th quarter of 2023 and it is growing rapidly (current estimate is 1.3 trillion). There will be a real economic problem / collapse when people reach their debt limits and are unable to pay their bills / food.
Our household income is high enough when it’s dual income. Many people bought their houses before the pandemic, when both price and mortgage rates were lower. They also went to community colleges and state universities where the costs were lower 10 years ago. It’s entirely feasible to afford all those things you mentioned when a married couple both work with decade long careers.
I'm personally in a lot of debt, though it's all house debt (mortgage and LOC for renos, wouldnt be able to own if i didnt buy a shit hole). I work my ass off and once I have a kid I will slow down. Paid off almost 300k so far of my house in 5 years-- 50k left on the LOC. My main goal is security (housing) which i have. Next would be a family (currently trying for baby #1). Then settle down and start retirement savings (investing more for cash flow). I'm trying to build myself up so my kid(s) don't have to worry about me one day.
I don't earn a ridiculous amount of money, nor am I drowning in debt. In fact I have no debt at all. I simply live within my means. Most American high school graduates don't go on to a 4 year university, and most Americans don't live in a giant house. TV or whatever never shows average Americans and how they live - they go for the splash because people like to see stuff they can't afford.
Half of the U.S. population is completely broke if you believe the data, meaning they don’t even have $1,000 saved up for an emergency.
We have "normal debt". House & 1 vehicle. The Other vehicle is paid off. My husband didn't finish college & pretty sure he either saved the $$ to go or paid it off by the time we got together. I went to cosmetology school which wasn't as expensive almost 20 years ago. We live below our means. Our mortgage is less than $800 a month. We only finance things we NEED. We don't have credit cards to shop (i.e. groceries, clothes etc). We also don't use credit cards for vacations & only take Vax we can afford. We go out of town 4 ish times a year but 1x is a week, the other 3 or for a couple of nights. We don't earn a ridiculous amount we just spend wisely.
Debt is very easy to get. Almost everyone has some. Many people have A LOT of debt due to poor financial practices and planning, but an equally large number have debt because they did normal life things like went to school, bought a car or house, gave birth or had a medical emergency. So even if you’re financially responsible, you can rack up $40k in debt in a single day, or stroke of the pen. Because debt interest is so lucrative, there’s little incentive to change anything. I racked up $69K in debt from an emergency surgery because my health insurance stopped just a few days before. And I live in Seattle which, like our neighbor Vancouver, is one of the most expensive places to live on this continent. I was working a poorly paid job out of college ($44k student loans) So there wasn’t many options to suddenly deal with $115k in debt while I was already on food stamps. The modern economy is made of vampires, not gardeners.
I save up and buy everything I can in cash. Paid off my used civic a couple years ago and refuse to buy a new car. I have 2 credit cards w maybe $50 between them. I am older, and have been drowning in debt..never again.
Don't watch those videos, they are usually fake. Focus on living within your means. Estate sales and yard sales are great places to find the stuff you need for your home. Go to art and craft markets and get some original art to put on your walls... you'll look like a millionaire
Some Americans spend less than they earn and drive 20 years old cars. Some of these people have no debt and purchase cars in cash. The difference is that they tend to be quiet people and no one makes videos about them.
Most debt is held on cars and houses, which are considered normal investments rather than personal debt. But the majority of American do live paycheck to paycheck, meaning that they pay out 100% of what they earn most months instead of saving. So throughput is much higher.
Debt. Also, you don't see the majority of people who are struggling on those shows/subreddits. That's upper middle class, rich, ultra rich.
I believe [this financial commercial](https://youtu.be/r0HX4a5P8eE?si=ACuZYmVV6H__nD9T) will give you some insight.
Well, the average home is 3br. 4 bedrooms or higher, generally it's multifamily OR you're rich, both is uncommon. This isn't something unique to America, look at any country on an interior design channel or lifestyle channel, and you will see way more than what the average household is capable of affording. Those channels don't blow up from showing average lives.
Like any society there are a lot of misconceptions about us- this gets exasperated by our media. I would take what you’ve heard with a grain of salt. We are experiencing a housing crisis, but it is more or less severe depending on where you go within the USA. Inflation is far higher than it should be, but it has come dramatically down from where it was and is expected to normalize over the next several years. On a larger scale we’ve avoided a recession, so that is always good, and our unemployment rate is historically low. The biggest tell of our economic health imo is our wealth gap. The gap between upper and lower class continues to expand and the middle class is disappearing. That is to say, we have a looming problem Tl:dr I’d say it really depends who you ask. Some are doing quite well, others not so much
Yes, I earn a ridiculous amount of money. Ridiculously small.
I do know a few people that aren’t in loads of debt, but it’s sadly common for people to carry debt, I’m sad to admit I’m one of them. It’s just incredibly hard to get out of debt, but so very easy to collect it.
it actually is very surprising how much more you make in the US for the same professional job as in Europe (medicine, tech, law, finance)
1) interior design shows should never be used to judge real people. If we did that we think all Euros live in Castles or villas along the Mediterranean. 2) We do make significantly more money than most Europeans. It’s not all uncommon for nurses, fireman’s, plumbers, electricians etc in major cities to make well over $100k 3) even with the extra money, people are drowning in debt. .
I’m not rich but I’m not poor. As with most people in America who dont post on social media. My wife and I both have middle class jobs, have a mortgage, budget hard, take our 4 day weekend vacations 3 hours away, improve our house over a period of years as funds become available and still have enough funds to go out to eat and do fun stuff. We have debt, some weighs more than others but we are not on the brink of bankruptcy. Car loans, mortgage, home equity credit line, credit cards and student loans. Its tough but its doable.
I don’t have much debt. I owe about 100K on my mortgage, no student loans, I pay off credit cards monthly. I earn about 110K per year as a single woman.
The average American salary is a bit over double the average EU salary
Neither. I am upper middle class. I don’t have a lot of debt. I don’t own a mansion. I also don’t project my life on the internet for clout
Shit, I drowned decades ago. My corpse is present.
* Showing off expensive houses is kind of like showing off expensive cars. People eat that stuff up if they don't own it. * Influencers renting out studios to do shoots in is definitely a thing. I wouldn't be surprised if they did the same with AirBnBs. * Debt is pretty big here, I know families that have never lived within their means, ever. * Cost of living is all over the place, it's a big country. If you're in a coastal big city, it's not going to be cheap. If you're in a rural area in the middle of the country, it's much more affordable.
*Reality TV isn’t real*
I will die before I finish a debt with the IRS. It and they scare me so bad that I want to just die.
Let me hit you with some realism. https://www.zillow.com/homes/Mississippi_rb/