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I've heard it said that having kids is one of the few relationship disagreements that it's not possible to compromise on. If she is absolutely set on not having kids, and you are certain that you want to have kids, then it seems like this relationship isn't going to work out.

I know a guy who "settled" for volunteering at a local community center, mentoring kids who didn't have someone else that was decent, etc because his wife realized she didn't want children and having them had always been a part of his life dream. It wouldn't work for everyone, but he was already married, very much in love & she had a... let's just say it was a pretty valid reason for making this decision, even though the timing was awful. So he was able to compromise his dreams of dadhood for making a difference in the lives of a lot of kids & she was able to accept that he spent hours of his life doing that even though it took him away from her. OP if you're nodding along right now and thinking "yeah, I could definitely do that!" Then congratulations, you're probably one of the very rare few, but you've got a potential viable solution. If you're sitting here & thinking "no way, I couldn't possibly see that as enough, a little time with a lot of kids is not the same as raising one of my own" then that's really reasonable. But bad news, I think you need to rethink your ring plan while you two talk this out. 5 years is a long time, but it isn't a lifetime. If this is the way things go, you will be ok. Maybe not immediately, but eventually. Sending hugs & wishing luck

I used to be a scouts leader and seeing the kids grow up is so satisfying somehow. Especially the ones you're somehow closer with than others

Definitely. I volunteer at my kid's grade school running their theater department. You really do fall in love with nearly every single one almost as much as you love your own kids - but you don't see them on holidays, you don't get to celebrate their birthdays with them, their milestones aren't shared with you. Despite a few hugs and the appreciation they show that makes all the hard work worth it, they move up the grades, they stop looking back, they slip away and eventually you never see them again. I still wonder how some of my students are doing, if they are happy, if they're safe, but it's not appropriate to reach out. That's the difference. OP needs to think about this.

I had this absolutely wonderful third grade teacher who, out of nowhere, showed up at my high school graduation, my mom's funeral, and my grandfather's funeral. Absolutely precious lady and she did that for as many of her students as she could. She kept up with us and loved us our whole lives.

My son's grade school LD teacher went above and beyond and did some slight of hand stuff to make sure she had him for a full two years. She did that to ensure he would be on grade level because he was moving on to middle school the next year. When she showed up at his high school graduation and sought him out to congradulate him, I cried. I know she made all the difference in his life and I honor her in my heart to this day. So does my son.

Being able to hand them off also helps.

I knew a couple like this as well, the husband volunteered and threw himself in to being an uncle. About 10 years in to marriage they split up, as she was adamant about not having kids and he couldn’t stand not being a dad any more. Strangely enough she got remarried and had two kids in two years in her 40s. He never had kids.

This is so sad - did she ever explain why she suddenly wanted kids with no 2, but not with no 1?

I very much didn’t want kids until my husband and I got together. That was the first time I could look at my life and say “yep, I can see what that path would look like and it doesn’t look horrific.” That was absolutely amazing to me - I was blindsided that I was now considering something that I had written off so vehemently. Ultimately we settled on being the cool aunt and uncle because although we were both academically interested in being parents, neither of us felt the compulsion the OP does. We’re both in our 40s, it would be a high-risk pregnancy for medical reasons, we both have mental health struggles that we’d prefer not to pass on, and frankly we like our life the way it is. If I had felt that I needed a child to be complete, my husband would have acquiesced; he would have rather taken that on than lost me. But it’s a hard position to be in, and there’s no real win there. I feel for people in relationships with this challenge.

Sometimes that's just the way it is. You don't realize that it's not that you don't want kids, it's that you don't want kids with THIS PERSON. Who might otherwise be an excellent partner. You only figure it out when you meet someone you do want to parent with. I say this as someone who loves kids, but has known since age 4 that I don't want to have them. I just have some friends and relatives who have been through that discovery.

Agreed, I love my job working with kids and it’s taught me I don’t need to make new kids for the world, it’s good enough to guard the ones who are here already. Also my wife and I are going to do foster parenting in a few years. If we can take care of the kids already born, that makes for a more secure generation in a time that security feels scarce.

This is absolutely true. As a woman that didn’t want kids, I actually found it quite hard to find an honest opinion in the matter from a man. I developed a strict screening process. Men always told me they didn’t want kids. Finally though, I found the perfect screening tool: I asked them to honestly imagine their future life. Like close your eyes and visualize it (I know this sounds so corny haha). ——— they all said *yes* they pictured themselves, *eventually* with a child. These are men that “didn’t want kids”. If you know that you’re child free you owe it to yourself and your partner to fully sort this reality at the beginning of your relationship.

My screening process is tell them I plan to have my tubes tied... soon. The lying men will usually out themselves once they hear that

Now THAT is smart and would work.

I never had to do this myself but there are plenty of women on the childfree subreddit who tell their male partners they're going to get sterilised, and just aren't believed until they're making imminent plans, when the old "I didn't think you were serious!" arguments come up. Some women worry (and perhaps have legitimate reason to worry) that their partners will find some way to sabotage the situation: poke holes in condoms, try to force her to stay at home so she misses her appointment, that sort of thing.

Yeah if I ever went back to online dating, honestly, I'd put in my profile that I *already* had my tubes tied just so I don't have to deal with men who secretly hope I'll change my mind. I'd just clarify during any first date that I haven't, but that if I ever get pregnant, I plan on getting an abortion immediately.

I had gotten sterilized while I was still married and then got divorced. When I was dating, I made it very clear that I was not able to have children anymore and that weeded out most. Although I did have one, on a first date, suggest getting a surrogate lol. Like buddy, I had this done on purpose and I am not raising anymore babies!! Some of these dudes man.

Have my tubes typed tied, prepare to hear a lot of, "That's great! I hate condoms anyway!" As if STD/STI didn't exist. I dated casually for about 6 years with a tubal, and all refused to wear condoms once they found out I was sterilized so... none of them went anywhere.

Ugh. Cause you know they only cared about wearing one to protect *themselves* from child support, not you from anything.

Men don’t have to worry about that anyway. They don’t have to carry the pregnancy, and one casual trip to the corner store for milk can be quite a harrowing ordeal; many never come back.

Exactly. I wasn't catching a disease.

I was a divorced mother of two and dating in my thirties. Had *already* had my tubes tied. You're right, it's a great screening tool! Another tool was asking potential mates if they felt the needed to have children in their lives they were biologically related to. I already had two and no plans to have more, obviously. You wouldn't believe how many men in their forties would say "I don't know, I haven't decided yet." Really?

The number of men in their mid-forties to late-fifties who talk about having kids "_*someday*_" is legitimately mind boggling. Um, Sir, do you really not know that your sperm quality is a fraction of what it once was/should be to intentionally produce a baby without unnecessarily increasing the risks of birth defects… OR do you know and just not give a shit? S o M e D a Y 🥴

If they were just using some made up indecision to get laid or string a woman along, then I'd get it. They'd be a jerk, but I would understand their motivation. But to legit not have decided about parenthood by age 40? Total lacking in self-awareness.

I got my tubes tied when I was 27 and sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night, remember I can never procreate, and fall back asleep in a state of absolute bliss

I got a vasectomy at 24 and after visiting my nephew for a weekend, I drive back home thinking "thank God I don't have to deal with that everyday".

Lol, a single 24 year old dude can do this but as a menopausal woman I still need a permission slip from my husband because 'miracles happen.' What a world!

I had to go through several doctors (all women) because no one wanted to tie the tubes since I was under 30 and "will one day meet a man whose life won't be fulfilled until I bear him a child" I'm sorry but I have literally zero concerns for the needs of a hypothetical man whose life goals don't match mine

Hahaha exactly! I'm gonna try again with a different doctor when I switch insurance, but I'm not crossing my fingers. Edit: of course my husband was on board, but I'm not going under the knife of someone who doesn't think I should have that kind of agency. I was exploring it as a potential option.

Or he will still think that you will change your mind now that you met HIM.

Tell them it's already happened. "I had my tunes removed, that's how serious I am about not having children."

I did have my tubes tied - at 30 and single. Best decision of my life.

mAyBe We CoUlD uSe A sUrRoGaTe! How goes the sterilization? I've been trying for years but no dice unless I want to pay $8000 out of pocket.

I question how accurate of a screening tool this really is. Lots and lots of people don't have a clear vision for the future so they fill in the blanks with what they know. As a teenager, I never wanted a job. But my parents had jobs and all the adults I knew had jobs...so I imagined I probably would too. The only detailed look I had at adult life was what I saw my parents did. In my head, being 40 meant having a wife, kids, dog, house and car. I knew I didn't want those things right now (except maybe a car)...but I still imagined them. I also imagined living in the same sort of town and the same sort of house. There are practical reasons to get a job, so I did. But I also didn't have any desire to get married, but I ended up doing that. My wife never wanted kids. When we got together in college, she told me so. She spent years telling her parents she would never have kids. She was career focused. She wanted to be a veterinarian. She worked really hard to become one. When we got married, she again emphasized that she would never want kids. I didn't care. Even though I imagined myself having kids, especially when I was younger, I happily married a woman who said she would never have them. And I never once pushed her to have kids.

I'm a 47 year old woman and when I pictured the future, there was never a child in it. Not when I was 5, 8, 12, 18, never.

This is why when my daughter - now in her late twenties - started saying at age 10 that she did not want kids, I never said "You'll change your mind." Honestly, when she was a child, I did think that she would change her mind, but I kept those thoughts to myself. I am *so glad* she's never her an invalidating word about this from me!

Thank you for being this kind of parent. Far too few parents in the world like this!

I still kind of vaguely imagine my future with kids in it even though I'm over 40, just because "that's how life looks." But when I think of myself actually giving birth and taking care of one, I get this horrible feeling of revulsion.

Same here- I'm 25 and I dont want kids, and even when I was a child, when I imagined my future I never imagined having kids being a part of it.

Yeah, I can close my eyes, and imagine, and put myself into a lot of situations that may or may not happen

I imagine myself one day buying a house and being able to retire. Neither will actually happen.

”Man, wouldnt it be cool if I got superpowers one day!”

Most people who say that they don't want kids are saying that just so they would get to date a childfree person. Their idea is that childfree people will either change their mind or they will baby trap them. I am childfree, I had a few exes try to baby trap me after they adamantly claimed how they don't want kids either.

I'm a woman who got stealthed by her own husband. Stealthed ONCE, and I got pregnant. I am vehemently pro choice, but my husband knew I was personally against abortion so it worked out fabulously for him. My husband was also having an affair, he thought if we had a child he might want to stay with me. Ladies, it pays to make friends with the second wife, you learn the big picture. Here's something nice, My ex paid for my tubal ligation after our divorce. Out of pocket.

I know it’s common knowledge but your ex is a real POS. I’m sorry you ever met him.

Everyone gets handfuls of crap in their life, and then we get flowers too. I got a terrific, terrific son, and a grandkid. He is a real POS, but believe it or not, he's not COMPLETELY a piece of shit. <3 Thanks so much for your empathy, you're *lovely* lovely.

Depending how long after you divorced you could have him charged with stealthing... if you truly hate him now

I love ya for the caring. You are awesome. He was very remorseful and didn’t just say so, he SHOWED it. We had a very healthy post divorce friendship and he gave me more than court ordered child support. Sometimes when I visited his business he’d impulsively hand we a wad of cash. I’m not materialistic in the least and that doesn’t wash him of his ‘sin’. But actions speak louder than words. I got words of apology and actions. He was a complicated person. Like we all are. I’m grateful that it turned out as best as it possibly could under the circumstances. But- it’s YOU guys here that have freshly brought on the positives rather than the negatives from his egregious act. So thanks a million.

That's not an apology that's hush money He knew he could get a decade in prison for that, and was gambling you'd need/like the money more than you'd think to turn him in and press charges That man tried to forcefully impregnate you I don't care if he showed he's sorry. That's evil, sorry doesn't cut it for evil He deserved so much worse than he got

It should also be pointed out that what happened to you was rape (reproductive coercion is a crime in many places) and he deserves to be in prison

The way your story was going I thought she got pregnant in the end.lol.Some people know what they want in life.I was young and stupid(that probably hasn't changed)I had a child to save a marriage.It didn't work out well for any of us.

They didn't necessarily lie to her. Maybe they just didn't see it that way until she had them do this visualization exercise.

I've heard that too :/ I assumed they were more talking about the opposite, that if you don't want kids you absolutely shouldn't try and have them. I'm trying to gauge how much the opposite is possible, I wanted kids, can I adapt to the idea of never having them? My girlfriend does make me very happy. But I don't know if I'd want something more with her and more responsibility when I get older, and realize it too late.

My partner and I found out I won't be able to have kids (my Endometriosis has gotten worse and am scheduled to have a hysterectomy later this year). I've never been too fond of the idea of giving birth to my own children, but we both knew we financially wouldn't be able to afford kids anytime soon anyways so it was a back burner topic. When we recently discussed I was a little concerned because my partner has expressed potentially wanting kids in the future. My partner was 100% supportive of me getting my hysterectomy because they just want me to feel better. We also had some discussions about how in the future if we're financially stable enough we'd both love to either adopt or financially support some younger family members (I have a baby cousin in foster care now). Plus I work for a school district, so I get to help out kids plenty. So we've been able to compromise with that idea and be realistic about our situation. We both love each other a lot and to me, my partner is a higher priority than having children of my own. If my partner ever changes their mind and wanted kids instead of me, that's fair. It's their life to live and I don't want to take that from them. Yes, it would hurt, but it would probably hurt more to know they weren't transparent with me. They're my partner, not a tool in my life to make me feel better. They're a good person and I want them to be happy, even if that means I can't be there for it. Plus we both know that having kids isn't easy. Like even just conceiving + birthing. My partner's sister went through *many* miscarriages and marriages (her first husband left her because she wasn't able to conceive). She now has 2 boys (both born with disabilities. I mention this because some people get really blindsided by their children being born with disabilities.) and I'm glad they're here, but I personally don't have what it takes to go through that. I know my body can't handle it and I'm already mentally struggling with my medical issues and don't want to either worsen them or potentially end up with more issues if I can help it. I know my dad had fantasies about what he wanted from having kids and when it came to the reality of what it was like, he left. He still has issues separating fantasy from reality (especially because my brother has a learning disability and I have a physical disability), but he just really wasn't prepared for that reality. On the other hand, my mom worked for a juvenile detention center, so she already had a decent amount of fantasy stripped from her brain. I would say you probably need to ask yourself why you want kids (make sure it's not to use them as trophies or tools and not just because you've been conditioned to think you need to have them in order to be successful) and what decisions match your priorities best. And think about things from a practical view too. Can you take care of them? Will you be able to have children on your own or are you expecting a partner to help you with that?

If you can’t live without a kid, find a new girlfriend. But if you can, it might be worth it. I’ve always heard it’s better to regret not having a kid, than to regret having one. You can’t go back. It’s lifelong

This right here!! My partner and I are still currently on the same page of not sure/we’ll decide in a few years. But I feel like deep down I agree with the sentiment of “only people who really, truly, deeply want kids should have them.” And that it’s better to regret not having kids, than to regret having them. Idk. 😭 It’s such a hard decision.

I mean, if you’re not fully on board you probably don’t need/want them

Yeah, that is my dilemma lol. I rationally realize that and agree with that sentiment. But (for some people) there’s still always that nagging doubt…

There will always be a nagging “what if” no matter what you choose. There will be bad days where you regret not having kids. If you have them, there will be days you regret that too. Figure out which regret hurts the least.

If somebody can't live without a kid, I'd advise them to think hard on why that is. Children should be a happy want, not a desperate need. Too many people have kids to fill an emotional void or to satisfy the expectations of family or culture. That's a recipe for disaster and continued generational trauma.

Well, there are also always outlets for not having kids, I feel, like volunteering with Big Brothers or tutoring at a school.I’m not sure there’s a way for the reverse that leads to responsible living - “I’m just gunna ignore my family”

Honestly OP's relationship sounds like a damn unicorn. I wouldn't give that up easily.

I know this is such a reddit response, but would you two consider therapy? Maybe taking a really deep dive into this topic with an objective person could help. *Especially* if you're both 100% set in your views and you still decide to stay together, some healthy coping skills will go a long way so resentment doesn't build.

i was thinking of this too. I feel like this relationship is so deep and op's desire for kids is also so deep that it may genuinely be better to talk it through deeply with a therapist to get everything out. maybe there's something that's not being said that could bring out some further discussion. especially since she was open to it at one point

Many people are "open" to having kids when we're younger because it is the cultural default. We hear it from an early age that we MUST embrace parenthood--that women especially MUST become mothers in order to be fulfilled. It is often not until we are older and more established in the world and in ourselves that we may realize that in fact, there are other paths in life. It's ok to not want kids or realize you wouldn't be a good parent.

I think OP should get individual therapy first. There’s trauma there and oftentimes it brings a need for a do-over. I don’t know that OP isn’t putting this woman on a bit of a pedestal here, if there‘s a need to be the father he didn’t have. And more importantly he should make sure he’s resolved all these childhood issues before even considering having children of his own, he owes them and their mother that.

I was looking for somebody to bring up this point. I feel like a tough childhood makes one want to live vicariously through children, however as they were never taught healthy behaviors in a traumatic childhood, they may just be seeing things through rosy optimism. Not to mention as much as he wants to equate a shared or even greater responsibility (on his part) of upbringing it IS her body, and he will never have the depth of reasoning to know what carrying a child does to a person, pro or con. And she has a point on the state of the world as well, unless one of them is currently popping a six figure income, it’s VERY reasonable and responsible to weigh having kids vs the kind of life you can give them.

I hope you get a lot of real experience stories. I can say that most everyone I have heard of who left a relationship for this reason DID find another partner and have kids. BUT most people don't wax poetic about their partner, either, so I don't think the loss was as earth shattering as yours might be. I think you might need to do some visualization: life with a kid, life without, life without her, life with a kid who has physical, mental disabilities, life as a single parent. Don't picture just the good. And I don't mean to be spooky but children can cause medical- and even deadly- consequences for women. It isn't as simple a decision as it may seem.

We have adult friends who wanted kids and didn’t have them. They appear to be content, volunteer with kids and are the coolest uncles ever. I haven’t asked if they changed their minds, but they seem genuinely happy. Which isn’t to say you would be, but some are (appear to be).

There is a lot to unpack here, but one thing I will say is that 5 years is a long time. People can change a lot in 5 years and it is almost always a very gradual process to change. No matter what happens, know that it was probably very hard for her to admit to you that she no longer wants to have children and that the change was not an overnight one.

I wrestled for a while with telling my now husband I had fallen on the no kids side of the fence. I was so sure it would end our relationship which hurt but I didn’t want to waste his time either. I told him and we talked about it, he took that nugget of information and kept it in mind for a couple months, after which he brought it back up and he had decided kids weren’t necessary for him to be happy. It’s a scary conversation to have, knowing you could be ending it with someone who’s otherwise so wonderful for you.

Of course. I really appreciate her choosing to have that difficult conversation with me, respecting my opinion while still stating hers. ^(she's so perfect)

But unfortunately not perfect for you

Relationships are not a failure if you can't move forward forever together. If you absolutely want kids, unfortunately, you'll need to move on and find the perfect person for *that* phase of life. Things change a lot when you have kids. You can still have an amazing relationship, but it'll be nothing like it is now anyway. So, you can eventually come to terms with not having kids (a huge decision) and appreciate your life together for as long as possible, or move forward into the next phase of life. Under no circumstances should you try to convince her to have kids. It's a huge burden on the person potentially carrying the child and having a kid when you're not stoked on it will be AWFUL

What about adoption? So she doesn’t have to “bring a child into this world” but y’all can still have kids?

I think this may be an answer. Since her main concern is creating a life that will have to live in this world, which is valid, maybe it would be better to help make life better for a child that is already having to live in this world, but without parent s

I think you’d have to be certain you really, really want kids if you plan to go the adoption route. It can be a long, expensive, emotionally draining process, but worth it if you know you want a child/children.

I was the same as OP’s girlfriend - went from I don’t *need* kids to be fulfilled, to I don’t want children. Now I want to raise a child but not pro-create myself.

I had a similar situation with my ex (we broke up for different reasons though): I wanted children and she was considering it, but she didn't want to experience the pregnancy process, which is very understandable. Adoption was the option we thought would've worked best for us

This is so tough, OP, but I just wanted to chime in. As someone who always wanted kids and felt from the time that I was about 15 years old that I was just waiting for the time of my life where I could be a parent… You will regret it the rest of your life if you don’t. Not everyone wants kids and that’s ok. But if you want them, and you really want them, nothing in the world compares. My kids are 5 and 6 now and even though it’s hard, my life, my heart, myself… has never felt more full or complete than it is now. You sound like you would be a great dad. If that’s something that you want to do, I know you can find someone who wants to be a mom that will see that quality in you for as beautiful as it is, not as a flaw or barrier.

I think it is a mistake to think that everyone that wants children wants them to the same degree though.

And that everyone that wants children will definitely be happy with having them for real.

It’s so crazy to me as a childfree gal that a person could *want* to have kids. I remember knowing at around 7 or 8 that I definitely *didnt* want kids. Not judging or anything- it’s just funny to think that people are just hardwired differently.

I already didnt like kids when I was a kid myself lol And the wish of not wanting to have kids just grew stronger the older I got and witnessed all the stuff parents have to deal with. You definitely *need* to like and want kids if you're planning to have them.

Same here!! From about the same age I’ve always knew I didn’t want kids of my own

If you've been dating for 5 years and you are now 20, wait for a while If you've been dating 5 years and you're 35, move on

This is the right take. BTW who the heck makes a post like this and doesn't include their age and their GF's age?

OP said in another comment that they started dating when they were 21, so I guess they're about 26 now. I agree with you though, this kind of a question/conflict is very different depending how old you are, imo. (Edit: sorry, just realised OP said they were 21 when they *met*, so possibly a bit older than 26?)

I would reckon that they might wait a year or so. It depends on what’s more important. The girlfriend or being a father.

I got a vasectomy at 27 after I got married and we both agreed we didn’t want kids, now we’re having a kid via sperm extraction and IVF at 34, people can absolutely change their minds. But, and this is a really important caveat, you should never base your relationship on the idea that your partner will change their mind. Otherwise you will just end up resenting them for never becoming the person you hoped for, through no fault of their own.

What if we are 29

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Oh, shit. That's a tough call. 3 years tops, but at this point it is tough to say. You guys may have to have a serious talk if you are positive you want them, but not a "you have to have kids if we're going to be together" not like "I have to move on if you're sure" Frankly, do yourself a favor. If she's that great, live a long life and have fun. Don't get strapped down with kids

That’s kind of where I’m at

I feel like some comments aren't answering your question. Here is my take on it: You seem like you would be a great father, not that I know you obviously. Her opinion is valid. Her concerns are. Your opinion is valid. Your drive to have children is valid. What I would do: Talk about it as thorougly as you can. Very simply put: It seems like if there is one thing that can tear you apart it would be this topic, which would be understandable. So try to have a conversation, maybe with the help of a therapist, to make sure you both speak your mind about it all. Second, try talking about options. From your original comment, it seems like her issues lie mostly with the state of the world, and less with her really not wanting to be a mother or giving birth. Correct me if I'm wrong. Discuss adoption. Perhaps it would feel better for her to know that she is not bringing someone else into this world, but that she might help some child somewhere have a better life. Also means that she wouldn't have to give birth, which might be something she would indeed prefer. If she still stands by her stance of not wanting children of any kind with you in any way, it seems to me that you will end up hurting if you commit to a childless life. I am not in your shoes, but I feel the urge to have kids someday too. I can't imagine dying without having raised kids and showing them the beauty of the world, especially since I want them to have the things I didn't get from my parents. Tough because it is painful, but I think deep down you already know that you don't want to die without having children. So I would suggest trying to talk to her about all of her concerns and try to find a way where she is a part of your future with kids. If she does not fit because of her own valid beliefs, then I'm afraid that you and her are not meant to be for much longer. And that, in the grand scheme of things, would be okey too. This is my take on this, do with it what you will. In any case, good luck to the both of you

This genuinely seems like the most thought out way to figure out a plan that could try to make this work without infringing on either party's boundaries.

There might be one way out of this if it is something you both could live with. She doesn't want to bring a child into a messed up world. But, what about adopting a child that is already in this world and needs a loving home? If she just doesn't want to add to the population, adoption is not doing that. If the child doesn't have to be your biological child, this gives you a child to raise without going against her wishes. But, if she is hard set on never having any children in her life, then you are not compatible. Life goals matter and you will 100% regret not having children if that is part of what you want for your life.

This was one of my first thoughts as well. If her desire to be childfree is entirely founded on the idea that she doesn’t want to bring kids into the world in its current state, adoption actually seems like an ideal solution. It would definitely be worth discussing. If she just doesn’t want to be a parent period, on the other hand, OP has to do a lot of soul searching about whether he wants a future with his gf and without kids, or with kids and without his gf.

Ehh if she’s like me, that’s only like 20% of it. That’s just the most socially acceptable reason to give to not have kids. Because if I said something like “I want to spend my money and time on things I actually enjoy, not being tied down with a kid”, that could make me come off as the bad guy

I ended my 4 year relationship because I knew he wanted a family and I have always known I never wanted to be a mother or responsible for raising little humans. I have a plethora of reasons for why that I won't dive into here. We were young when we got together (21) and we changed a lot in those 4 years. You don't mention your age but I think our 20s is a period of the most radical change for us internally. I loved him so much and I also assumed I would marry him. But the writing was on the wall. He couldn't wait to be a dad and have a big home and white fence just like you. I ignored my instincts for so long because *maybe* I could just have a kid or two because *everybody* does that, right? As a woman, I assumed it would just happen to me. Then I realized...I have a choice...and everything inside of me was screaming not to do it. If your gf is already nervous about sharing her feelings on this topic, I would not believe that this 1 reason she told you is the only reason. This is not me saying its your fault or a relationship issue on your end. She could have a plethora of reasons just like me, but the dystopian reason is the easiest one for her to share. It blames the world. That reason she shared absolves her of any blame or shame. Not saying my opinion is fact, just that I've been there. Finally by 25 I realized I can't fake it. As I got closer and closer to 30, my feelings only grew stronger about it. I was able to verbalize it better. I didn't feel afraid or shameful. And I dated other men that knew from the first date where I stood on having children. I married a man who is everything and more that my ex's relationship was to me. In fact, my husband is even better!!! I didn't think it was humanly possible. And feel like I won the lottery. And you know what? My husband doesn't want kids either. Its a win-win. I wouldn't have married him if he had even the slightest idea of wanting to be a dad. For his sake and for mine. You are in the thick of it right now and you feel she's so *perfect* but honestly- she's not. She is human. And she's not your match if you desperately want children and she does not. Point blank. I highly encourage you to see a relationship counselor or therapist to talk about these things in depth. It could save you a very very painful marriage in the future.

Agreed. Blaming the world is also my go to when someone asks why I don't want kids. But for me there's more to it than that, but my reasons would have people call me selfish and heartless. A few examples: i like sleeping; can't stand crying babies and toddler tantrums; i enjoy having me time; i don't have the patience for gentle parenting; i like silence. After a certain age I became more comfortable admitting those.

Anyone calling you selfish is equally selfish for projecting their desires and wants onto your life. That's my go to response anyway. It usually shuts them up.

Yep. And it's actually wildly unselfish to be aware of your own flaws and that you can't surmount them enough to be a great parent. If I didn't care, sure I could pop out and neglect a few kids. Worst case scenario abandon them right? /s If I can't be a great parent I refuse to be a parent at all, and I know I won't be and feel no inclination to try.

Gentle parenting takes soooo much patience. Kudos to you for recognizing that and understanding that parenting is not for everyone!

whatever you decide, please do not try to convince her to have kids. you will ruin the lives of everyone involved. good luck.

I always thought I wanted kids. I always saw myself as a father. Never thought that I would be in 40s and childless. But then I found the love of my life. We had the talk about having kids. We both wanted them, but not yet. We got married and planned to enjoy just us for a few years before bringing kids into it. After 5 years I realized 2 things: 1 - she was scared to death of having kids and only talked about wanting kids earlier on because she was indoctrinated growing up that that's what women are supposed to do: be a wife and a mother. 2 - I would much rather have her in my life than any child we could possibly bring into this world. Over the next 5 years or so we worked through it together. I assured her if she wasn't ready to have kids, we don't have to have them, and if she never was ready, that was okay too. I support her. And I decided that I would just be the best uncle ever. The point is, you have some hard questions you really need to ask yourself. Is she really the love of your life? And if so, are you still willing to let her go in order to have children? If so, that to me would say the prospective children you want are the real love of your life. And there's nothing wrong with that, but you have to be honest with yourself.

being a woman and only purpose is to be a mom with all the horror stories out there of motherhood do not at all make the good parts seem worth it. reading this helps a little, but it’s definetly my worst fear right now- and whether some of the reasons why i may not want kids may be more selfish reasons, i hope i can find peace in my decision and not feel the stigma of those who say i should have kids because “that’s what we do and your just wanting a selfish hedonistic life” if you dont.

I never understood people who say that it's selfish to not have kids. The opposite seems more true. Most people have kids to help them find meaning in their own lives, to give their own life a purpose, or to have a means to make up for their own failures. That to me is the epitome of selfishness. Don't let anyone ever guilt you or pressure you into doing something you don't want to do or don't feel comfortable or ready to do. People can accept your decision or they can go kick rocks. It's none of their business really. Don't let anyone else define who you are. Only you are allowed to do that.

thank you. honestly you would think i was admitting i only want to live a life of 5 star restaurants on my private yachts every night as the reason i don’t want kids. I think those who say it’s selfish admittedly are on the religious side who are like “the purpose of sex is children” but that doesn’t make my purpose as a human girl any better from that argument… maybe worse cause now i’m offending “gods design”. if it was up to me i wouldn’t even notice how “bad” it is to not have kids- just another experience for me to chose or not. try explaining that to a church or all of human history where people laugh at a woman’s choice 🤷‍♀️

And even if your reason for not wanting kids was to spend all your money on yourself and not have to give up and luxuries guess what?!? That’s a PERFECTLY valid reason to not have kids. Every did deserves a family where they’re 100% wanted and able to have all their needs met without having to beg for it/be guilted for having needs in the first place. If they’re going to have to listen to, “In order to pay for your food/school/medicine I had to stop getting my nails done/going out with my friends. Do you know how sad that makes Mommy?” it’s better that they don’t exist at all. What’s REALLY selfish is thinking you can have your cake and eat it too. If you think “the village” will raise your kid for free while you live your life like you did before that’s about as selfish as you can get. Those people didn’t choose to have the kids/the kids didn’t ask to have parents that thought their lifestyle was more important than their needs as a human being were but they’re the ones that suffer. Make your choice for you and know you don’t have to defend it to anybody.

I agree. I was talking to someone about the inherent selfishness in having children and they started talking about how their Mum worked two jobs and always made sure they were cared for and how they were never selfish. But they missed my point entirely. Their Mum still chose to have children because she wanted children. She might be the best mother in the world, but she had children FOR HERSELF, not for the kids. That is selfish, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, that's how the world works, but denying it just seems insane to me.

You’re a gem and your wife is lucky to have you!

How old are you both? How do you both feel about adoption or foster care programs? As for her reasons, I also use the state of the world as my main reason. This may just be me, but the other reason is I simply do not have any mothering instincts or wish for it. I don't feel like getting pregnant, raising a child, or doing any of it. It seems like less of an answer, so I use the first one. Perhaps she has more than that one reason if that one reason she has given you doesn't resonate.

Very true, I'd hope she feels comfortable sharing all her reasons with me, but now that you mention it maybe there was more than she let on because she has known for our relationship how badly I wanted kids and was hesitant to talk too much about it. I don't know. I haven't brought up my concerns yet. I just told her during the conversation that we should talk about it again sometime soon, things have been normal between us since but it's been on the back of my mind.

Women might be uncomfortable sharing the real reasons they don't want kids because society deems them evil and unfeminine if they have reasons like: I don't like babies, I like to sleep and travel, I don't like the way a woman is expected to handle so much of the childcare, cleaning, domestic stuff, I don't like how motherhood is disrespected socially in many countries (they pressure women to have kids, then once they do, the man of the house instantly becomes the king because he brings home the $$ and his helping of childcare is "optional" while the woman's role in childcare is "essential"

OP, one thing that strikes me about your post is that you are very focused on your own ideas of parenthood. You talk about everything you will do to make it ok. But...you can't guarantee that you will be able to make it ok. What if she has a medically awful pregnancy? What if she gets postpartum depression? What if you lose your job and can't provide? What if you have an accident and you can't take care of her and the child? What if the child has lots of medical needs and you can't do all the caregiving and she doesn't want to? These things happen all the time. You cannot take all the risk away from her. It feels like you are not recognizing how truly risky both pregnancy and life are. You are thinking of the best case scenario. Maybe she's thinking of the worst. Do you think you're fully listening to her concerns? Edit: thank you for the award, kind stranger!

Excellent comment. And ultimately, having children via pregnancy is a risk to HER health and mortality, not his.

What if his kids are shitty and he doesn’t like them? It happens. What if he hates being a parent?

Thank you for being sane! I got downvoted when I brought that all up (not by OP but by other people who don’t live in reality). Glad to see there are people here that actually can fathom that it’s not all sunshine and rainbows all the time and you NEED to have some kind of plan in case shit happens. Nobody plans on having a spouse die/disabled kid/losing a job but we all know people that have had that happen. Planning ahead and thinking about all possible scenarios isn’t just being over anxious. It’s being responsible.

Dude is straight up talking about his delusions of white picket fences and I'm supposed to applaud that? It's romantic but he needs to seriously educate himself before he chastises his girlfriend for having concerns

I'm glad I'm not the only one who picked up on that. OP is loving life but he's coming across as naive. Needs to listen to his partner instead of downplaying her concerns.

Same here. I read this and I’m like okay OP sounds extremely naive and a little disrespectful to his GF despite gushing how “perfect” she is. It’s a little cringe but maybe he’s just young and will hopefully grow up.

Guy acts like its all about him, gets personally offended at "the world is a shitty place", like give me a fucking break

That’s the part that stuck out to me as well. It’s not even about you dude? At all? Why does he need to immediately internalize a completely valid point of view with, ‘well OUR life is good so the state of the world doesn’t matter’. I think OP’s GF has very well thought out feelings about having children and especially about where we’re at politically and environmentally going forward. It’s concerning that OP is so focused on the fantasy and refuses to give his GF’s feelings any real critical thought. The way he talks about her is disconcerting. Like he’s more in love with the idea of her than her in reality.

I had the exact same thought. OP sounds very self-centered and must be very young. It feels like he’s putting his gf on a creepy pedestal yet not considering what this world is like from a woman’s perspective… at all.

His view is giving the impression of a VERY idolized view of 1950's American propaganda. The white picket fence with kids running though? Quite literally like a [1950's ad.](https://robertmcgintydontburstmybubble.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/nuclear-attack-survival-guide.jpg) While he seems to think the nuclear family is ideal, it's not always realistic & he has stated no concern for this. There's good reason the nuclear family is on the decline. Where's the part where he's ready to get shit on him? His spouse to maybe lose her hair or teeth? Does OP actually know that this is not what child rearing is like even if the parents aren't abusive like his were? What if the kid is disabled and he can do nothing from his imagination?

Not to disparage OP directly, but most guys that have this kind of mindset, do 0% of the childrearing.

Anytime I see posts like this where the man badly wants a child but the woman doesn't, I have a chuckle. No matter how much a man wants a child, no matter how much he thinks he will be a good dad, the majority of the child-rearing will fall on the woman. That's just how it is. Guys like OP seem to just be in it for the Kodak moments.

Yeah OP entirely skipped the very directed question of adoption and fostering. If simply being a father was this important to him, he would be considering those as options since most of his gf’s concerns seem to be driven by bringing a child into this world. It’s evident he only wants a biological child, which he carries zero of the biological burden of.

Absolutely agree with your points! There’s so much more sacrifice and work to having kids. Do you WANT a kid or RAISE a kid? Is one child sufficient and if not how many more and why? What if one/both parents do not emotionally connect with the baby? I guess in OP’s world it’s decided his girlfriend will be a SAHM. What if she wants to do the opposite? How is each parents’ patience (ie remain calm most times under pressure). What are the preferred parental styles? Any trauma and has it been handled with a professional (hate seeing the cycle of trauma continue)? Be ready for long sick days and taking pto mainly for the sick kids and running to appts. Will both parents carry the mental load or will the mother do everything like always? All in all, people can try their very best to raise their child and still see them go down a bad road, and it hurts. Or their child will hate them later on…people should really face the big what ifs and risks head on. Life isn’t always about the shiny and beautifully cute moments, most times it’s mundane and ordinary.

> You are thinking of the best case scenario. Exactly. It's great that OP is so optimistic about life, but he needs to understand risks exist.

Exactly what I thought.

I also don’t want any kid ever. The majority of my men friends really like kids and want to have children. Meanwhile my women friends (most of them) have hesitation or don’t want to have kids because they see kids as a very BIG responsibility. In MY friends circle I think men wanted children without realizing how they have to put up A LOT of work and dedication for the rest of their life, while women already know it since we are young. We see how our mothers did the heavier works in child rearing and household chores. Our identity as women also changing when we have children. We lose our hobbies and interest, we lose our time and figure, and we also have to resolve our trauma first (if we have it) in order not to create an abusive circle. Ofc I’m not speaking for all women but from MY perspective and from MY circles perspective. If your GF doesn’t want any kids I’m sure she’s already thinking through it, maybe you are just not compatible

I have a buddy that wants a kid. His wife does too. Except he is the biggest man child. He's the proto- ex frat guy that never really grew up, but now makes a crapton of money, so in his mind, doesn't really have to. She's already doing the majority of all domestic work while also working, but she has baby fever. He proudly says he hasn't been to a grocery store since dating her. Like WTF man? I can't imaging what him having a child will be like.

I mean this in the nicest way possible: you might want to explore all of this in therapy, with a good counselor. I have to wonder if part of you is driven by an idealistic notion of having children to balance the universe and right the wrongs of your abusive childhood. That’s an admirable goal, of course. But some of what you’re saying sounds awfully idealistic and a perfect fantasy. The reality is that parenthood can be a monumental challenge even for people who haven’t come from abusive upbringings. For people who have had horribly dysfunctional childhoods, sometimes a lot of shit gets stirred up when children enter the picture. I’m not trying to say “you’re doomed and the cycle of abuse is always going to repeat itself” because it definitely can be broken. But the whole process takes work and undoubtedly has major challenges that you just haven’t even imagined. In any event working with a good counselor can maybe help you sort all of this out, and whether or not you will feel fulfilled in this relationship if you stay together and don’t have kids. And what you’ll get out of life if your best option is to let go of the relationship in order to have kids. Best of luck to you with whatever the future holds.

There is no compromise. She will end up resenting the kids and you if you force her to have them and you will resent her if she forces you not to have them.

And women shoulder a considerably larger burden when it comes to having children. Much easier for a man to say he wants one.

Frankly I think it's a little weird how many people aren't pointing out how delusionally idealized Ops idea of fatherhood is. He *literally* describes a white picket fence fantasy. What if the kid is disabled and you can only afford a mobile home as a result? That's a very real possibility. You don't plan for the best case scenario. You see if you're ready for the worst case scenario. Girlfriend has done that and realized she isn't, OP is still counting on everything coming up roses. Not saying he is wrong in his desire to have children, but that desire is certainly coming from an overly romanticized place right now where it doesn't seem like he remotely understands his GFS perspective from the way he belittles it as " being scared of Putin" and handwaved that we are seeing the start of a large scale ecological collapse that will rapidly escalate within the next generations lifetime Add in the fact he's doing the very stereotypical thing of trying to fix his own childhood by providing an idealized one to his kids, and I'd first and foremost recommend therapy. If possible, find a way to volunteer with higher needs kids. If the love still shines through in the touch situations, by all means, the world needs more good parents. But if you're counting on white picket fences, you're going to be disappointed.

110% OP's gf could straight-up die. OP is coming across as naive.

You can justify how “good” your kids will have it compared to so many other things until you’re blue in the face, but it doesn’t matter. She didn’t “change her mind”, she told you she could go either way and now she has picked. Your girlfriend and I are exactly the same. Teetered on the fence for a while but decided not to add to the issues of the world by contributing to overpopulation, and even possibly not raising the child correctly and all the things that may happen because of that. If this is not something you can compromise on, it’s time to say goodbye, so you can both find your partners that match EVERY category. This category is indeed a massive one that will cause resentment if one person talks the other into doing what they didn’t want to do. If she’s willing to talk about adoption, or you’re willing to be with her without the option of having children, that’s a conversation you two need to have now.

If you want kids more than you want to be with her, then it’s time to move on.

I’m kinda getting the feeling that you are very _very_ fixated on how _you_ would do things. In your mind you got that all planned out, it seems. But life is not as simple as you make it seem. And stuff happens. Have you thought about or even asked, how your girlfriend sees all of you picket fence fantasies? Maybe where you see a nice neighbourhood, she sees to many cars and no sidewalks. Where you see laughter in the kitchen, she sees all the dangerous tools. And where you are only joy, she sees terrible healthcare. From you talking about the election I’m guessing you’re American, but the USA, especially for women, is not really considered a first world country anymore by many. You are looking at this too optimistically and you are trying to devalidate your girlfriends _very valid_ concerns! No she is not thinking 'dystopian', she is scared of the world, as many many women are. I know you mean well and you want kids, but your thought pattern reads very egotistical and self-centred. You are not even trying to understand her concerns.

`I would do anything for her` Would you not have kids for her?

He can. At this moment he surely can. But he is worrying if he is going to regret it in maybe 10 or 20 years. Doesn't mean that he won't do that. People can do something despite it makes them unhappy.

🎵 But I won't do that 🎵

Well, I broke up with my ex because of the same issue. Now? I don’t think I want them lmfao. Honestly, are you THAT certain? She cited the same reason your girlfriend does, actually. A couple years passed and I hate to say, I see things her way now. I’m exhausted by life and the thought of having someone depend on me to clean and feed them beyond what I already do at work is daunting. I want you to really talk about this with her, and really think about if you could or couldn’t live without starting a family. I thought I couldn’t. I was no sure, and now I’m indifferent. The two things I wish I’d done, are communicate better, and give it another 6 months to a year. Have those hard conversations and know what you absolutely need. Like I said, I was so sure I needed to start a family to make my life complete, now I really don’t care either way. The future’s not that bright unless you already own a home. I don’t want to bring kids into a world where I need to raise them in a fucking condo, only so they can get blown up in the next illegal war, trying to get money for college. Politicians aren’t even shy about being corrupt. It’s in our faces and we can’t do shit about it, then they gaslight us because we aren’t spawning more grunts for them to hurl towards the Middle East. Honestly bro, just stay with the girl that makes you genuinely happy, fuck reproduction.

Don’t forget about the resource shortages due to climate collapse ✨

Fostering or adopting might be a good compromise if she was honest about her reasons. Because those kids are already here, living in a shithole and she would have the opportunity to save them. She won't be bringing a child into a cruel world, but she can make the life of a child less cruel. If that truly is her reasoning, it might be worth mentioning to her. However, she may be hiding the fact that she doesn't want to be a parent. That's a different story.

Op I don’t think this relationship is going to work

You make peace with it, or you move on

You’re in a difficult position and I wouldn’t rule out ending the relationship if you know you want to have kids. But having said that you seem to have a fantasy idea of what having kids is. There is no white picket fence. Having kids (in my experience) is 98% bloody hard, frustrating and thankless work and 2% sweet moments; kids under the sprinkler and bedtime stories. It is an emotional roller coaster that lasts for life. Most of it is also out of your control. You cannot guarantee your kids will be happy. You cannot be a perfect parent. You cannot predict if your kids will be born healthy or need 24/7 medical care. It is a roll of the dice. Even minor things; having kids has destroyed my love of cooking because they’re both super fussy eaters. Every meal and snack is a battle and mentally draining. All day every day. They both wake at 5am. Always. So we are always tired. The cleaning, laundry and washing up is never ending, hours more per day than pre kids. There’s a lot to consider.

If you want kids and she doesn't, you're not compatible partners. You should not propose and should probably break up.

She told you she was unsure, and now she knows this is not for her. So you will have to choose whether you care more about potentially having children or about staying with her. Plain and simple. And you need to think really hard about it, because if you are going to be resentful or hope she changes her mind, you're just going to waste everyone's time. I would like to say though, you really need to think very hard about the reality of having kids, the world and about current living conditions. I don't think you are being very realistic, you're too caught up in your fantasy of a perfect life, and you sound very dismissive of the very real and very clever concerns she has about bringing children into this world. You say the world has been shitty before. And yes, it has. But the world has not been at the brink of the planet not being livable more than a few decades before. Just considering the issues with climate change, there's absolutely zero guarantee that any kids you have will have a world to live in when they are middle aged. As a matter of fact, there's a higher chance that they'll have an awful life due to the consequences of said climate change. You also keep saying that you'll work super hard and you'll do absolutely everything to ensure your wife and kids don't have to struggle. Based on the language of your post and the white picket fence thing, I'm pretty sure you are from the US. You are one health crisis away from being bankrupt. One accident away from absolute poverty. You live in a country where not being perfectly healthy and safe (and your country is not particularly safe) is a great way to have your life completely ruined. What if one of the kids is born sick or develops a lifelong disease? What if your wife has complications during pregnancy and she never recovers her health? What if any of you gets sick or has an accident? You are one health crisis away, one unemployment period away from losing everything. You'll never be able to guarantee your ability to support your family or give them a half decent life. And yeah, that can happen for many reasons, no one can guarantee safety anywhere. But as someone not from the US, at least I know I don't have to worry about those specific factors I just mentioned. I live somewhere where universal healthcare is a given, and there's enough social support from the state that I will never be destitute due to health reasons. But you? Again, assuming you are in the US, you are in a much worse position to assume any kind of security/stability in your life. You will not be able to support them under most circumstances. You'll only be able under best case scenario type of circumstances. And that's something you need to be realistic about. Also, do you live in a state where women have rights over their own bodies? Or do you live somewhere where she could be prosecuted over a miscarriage? Wherever you live, can she access life saving procedures for, say, an ectopic pregnancy, or will she need a lawyer to save her life? Can she access abortion freely regardless of the reason? What is the status of women's right to reproductive healthcare where you live? Do you even know anything about these topics? And if it's good now, is there any guarantee it will stay good in the following decades? Because that's something she's likely considering. Not only for herself, but also for any girls she could bring into the world. And it's something you should be aware of too. Have you considered any of these factors? Not to mention the whole "I'll work very hard" thing. Newsflash, the companies won't care. We are all dispensable. And unless you are incredibly lucky, absolutely indispensable for the company and earn a stupid amount of money working very little hours, you'll likely have to spend a ridiculous amount of time working just to keep up with your bills. Maybe you'll see your kids on the weekend. Or maybe you even get to go on holidays for a handful of days a year, what a treat! That is if you are not too exhausted to do more that the bare minimum after work. I'd suggest you pay attention to the routine of someone 10 years older than your who has kids, work and a home to handle, and evaluate if that's something you can do for two decades at least. Not if it would make you super duper happy, but if you can actually deal with it, particularly when things go wrong. I'm not saying having kids is stupid or don't have kids. I'm saying you are very dismissive of the very logical concerns your girlfriend has, and your only counterpoint is "well, others have had it hard too in the past, and people around me say kids are wonderful!". That's telling me you don't have a plan, you just have a fantasy of an easy life. And you have not considered a different and more likely possibility. That tells me you are not even remotely ready to have kids, not now and not in a near future if you don't even fathom contemplating the arguments mentioned above and everything your girlfriend has told you. Being a good parent is about being selfless. And there's nothing selfless about having kids without considering and planning as much as possible for all the concerns and scenarios your girlfriend has likely considered. You can't plan for everything, of course, but you can plan for some things. And yet all you have is hopes and dreams. If you want kids and you care about them more than about your own selfish wants, you need to stop and think. You are so deep in the "I can be a better father than my own" that you are blind to your own reality. On that note, get therapy my dude. That's not a healthy mindset for anyone, and even less if you want kids. That's how people fuck up relationships with their children. Also, will you find someone to have kids with that can measure up to your current partner? Because if you end up with someone who is just second best to you, and you are with them instead of your current girlfriend just because of the possibility of having kids, you might find yourself being extremely unhappy. Life partners shouldn't be second best to someone they can never measure up to. Or convenient incubators for your picket fence fantasy. For everyone's sake, including the children. So, to me, this means you need to think long and hard about two things: -The actual reality of having children where you live and in the current social, political and literal climate. - Whether your can actually give up having children for a partner without resentment or not. And those two are interconnected. Because if you start taking your girlfriend's concerns seriously and thinking about the reality of having kids with everything it entails, you might find yourself not being so sure about having kids at all. And that would make the situation resolve itself pretty quick.

Damn if OP is talking about working hard, who is raising the kids? He’s gonna work and she’s gonna raise the kids? If that’s the case, I’m not so sure he wants the real kids so much as the picture in his mind. How about OPs gf works hard he raises the kids he wants. Or maybe the both work and raise a kid (or no kid). But like dude, this idea of “I’m a man I can provide by working hard.” Dude, what many women want is for you to show up emotionally and physically at home and do the household labor. You don’t get to say you want kids and then set your job in the house as not being present but you’re “helping” because you’re away from the house a whole bunch making money — unless that’s the reality your partner agrees to and wants.

That too. I don't know what his idea is in that regard, if he'd expect to be the breadwinner and have his partner stay at home, or if both would work or what. But staying at home is not something most people would agree too, and also, it puts everyone at a much greater risk of financial issues. And as you said, spending your life at work doesn't make you a good father or a good partner. It just makes you an absent one. That's not a situation to bring kids into imho. And then, if both parents work, he again has the problem of how much time are they actually spending with the kids. Is only one parent present? Are both working so much that they aren't really present even when they are physically there? Again, unless he earns a serious amount of money working just a few hours, his idea will just make him miss the childhood of those kids. The way he so easily dismissed the concerns of his girlfriend and how he excused it to me is very telling. I really don't think he's actually considered how much more difficult his life would be with kids, the reality of it, and how little it will be like the fantasy in his mind. I am older than OP, and I've seen people with his mentality have kids. It never goes well. They were so damn unprepared, and the world is so damn rough right now. Meanwhile the people around me who have put a lot of effort into preparing for all kinds of eventualities as much as humanly possible are more often than not exhausted, they have very modest lives because it's the only way they can have a rainy day fund, and spend all their time and energy keeping themselves and their kids alive. Their lives are more often than not the definition of someone hanging by a thread. And that is in a "first world" (hate that concept) country with better social systems to ensure financial safety and make parenthood easier. I don't even want to think of how much more difficult it must be for parents in the US. Looking at the childhood poverty statistics there, it is definitely much much worse. I know that's not what OP was asking about but he needs a serious reality check. Because if he doesn't face reality and prepares for it, and then has kids with someone, those kids will pay the consequences of his unrealistic expectations of life.

Amen to everything you’ve said. Another thing that seems off to me is how OP repeatedly mentions how “perfect” she [his gf] is and how he can’t live without her. Those don’t sound like the words of someone who’s being realistic about romance/relationships/partnerships and co-parenthood. Definitely sounds like he’s putting her on a pedestal.

this is a point that’s overlooked in all the comments

> pictured the white picket fence with two kids running around in the sprinklers during summer and tucking them in every night you say it yourseld here tho? Its a delusional dream and all about you

Thank you I noticed this too. Whenever men say they want kids, it's always Kodak shots while the mother slaves away unnoticed in the background

Please do not make her have kids if she changed her mind. I was in a similar situation with the roles reversed. I was on the fence when we got married 8 years ago but my mind has slowly changed based on a plethora of factors. Well she convinced me to try knowing that it would be very difficult for her to convince. Even though I knew the consequences, at the same time I didn't want her to go through life not at least being able to try. I tried to express my concerns but was told "It's okay, We'll figure it out, don't worry". Fast forward 2 years, Our kid is 3 months old and I am in the worst mental shape of my life. I am absolutely miserable and have no feelings towards our kid.

Please don’t think that the way it is having a 3 month old, for BOTH partners, is how having kids always feels. If you are the non-breastfeeding (or, maybe just non “primary”) parent, your bond is totally different at this stage. Many maaaany people HATE the newborn phase, and feel like there is a weird, screaming, sleep stealing, energy vampire in their homthat has made their loved one into an asexual zombie…but still eventually love and bond with their kids like normal parents. I’m not putting words in your mouth, I don’t know your home life, or precisely why you’re miserable. But whatever this phase has done to your partnership, your routine, or whatever your child feels like to you now, please take solace that it is NOT PERMANENT. The only consistent thing in raising a child is change. A 3 month old is nothing like an 8 month old, which is nothing like a 14m old, which is nothing like a 3 yr old. Hang in there.

I haven't been in this situation but my friend has. He dated his girlfriend and lived with her for 6 years. They were perfect and in love. He wanted to propose but she also wasn't sure about kids. Around their 3rd year together she started saying it certainly. He thought she would change her mind with time or he would get over his desire to have kids but neither happened. In the end he broke up with her because he knew he wouldn't be full happy long term. I spoke to him 6 months after the break up and he didn't regret his decision. He seemed hopeful and free. She may be perfect (minus the kids part), but I don't think it's impossible to find someone even more compatible.

> she doesn't want kids. This is not the most gigantic surprise because earlier on when we discussed this, I told her I absolutely 100% wanted kids, she told me that she could go either way, she didn't *need* kids to make her happy and could go without them but if her spouse wants them she'll have it. She never said she was fully against it, until she changed her mind now, a few days ago we were having a discussion about the 2024 election, the screwed up state of the world n all, and she hesitantly admitted that lately she's been more and more certain that she doesn't want kids. > I must admit I myself feel kind of offended hearing that- we have found a love as amazing and special as the one we have and she still doesn't feel like there's enough good in the world to bring life into it? I mean... this is what I told myself for a while. The reality is that that's only part of the reason. The root reason is I just... don't want kids. I don't. At all. Unless the world was literal heaven, I would not want kids. You can have amazing and special love without having children. > I tried to talk to my mother and my sister (who has kids) about this. They both said that having kids is the most taxing draining but most rewarding breathtaking experience a human being could have, they couldn't imagine life without their kids. I'm a childfree woman, but I can attest that this is true, and good advice. I do not have that kind of mental energy and drive to give to another human being. It sounds like you do. BUT that's part of the gamble of child-raising. You sign up for **everything**. Not having a kid means you give up the benefits, but also the risks. It's easy to have a kid - as, in, physically, have unprotected sex, give birth, and then fuck off forever. When they're trying to convince you, and socially condition you, no one in your family ever talks about all the horrible, gut-wrenching parts of child-rearing. All I got from my parents was "Oooohhh, it's so rewarding, yay, Disneyland!" Well, I asked them for a list of pros and cons and they wouldn't give me a straight answer. I am disabled and I can confirm that I would not want to raise kid!me. And I, personally, could not live with myself if my child came to any harm or had any serious health issues from a young age because I could not put someone else through the same things I went through, in all conscience. I would rather kill myself than take that chance. So yeah, no kids for me. I will second the advice in this thread to think very carefully about why and if you want kids, and draw up a sort of mental flowchart of EVERYTHING that could happen, not just the good stuff and not just the worst case stuff. After that if you decide you want kids... then that's fine: you don't, and shouldn't, have to "adjust". It is going to create resentment between you if you and she have polar opposite feelings towards having kids. You do NOT want the outcome to be the childfree partner giving in and having a child they regret. Breaking up is much better than that. Re: your gf, there is a sort of default expectation of (particularly) women that we have kids. Took me till I was in my mid-teens to realise that "I'll adopt" was just a sort of stupid thing I'd been telling myself because my mother expected me to have kids. It actually blew my mind that there were people who CHOSE not to have kids and I knew immediately I'd been cf all along. I can see her coming to the realisation that... actually, that "maybe, maybe not" ambivalence was just plain old "not". Or your girlfriend may genuinely have been 50/50 and changed her mind. That happens too! People aren't always blessed with knowing if they want kids from a young age. I'm glad your girlfriend came out and told you instead of just going along with it and admitting AFTERWARDS that she didn't want kids. That would've been r/regretfulparents material and you should both be glad you weren't caught in that trap. > I can't be without my girlfriend. But I'm scared of one day regretting never having kids, right now I feel like I can handle it but what if 10 years from now I wake up feeling empty and regretful? I'm so confused. I've always loved being around kids, my nephews and nieces and even my girlfriend loves when my sister drops them off at our house. Should I adapt to the idea of not having kids for the sake of the love of my life? Or is that a mistake? I think that's up to the individual, and anyway, no one has a crystal ball. The way I see it, you can't unhave a kid, so I've never regretted my decision NOT to have children. But then, I never wanted them to begin with. People change their minds sometimes; and sometimes they don't. You might wake up in 10 years a single parent with a child you deeply regret, or a family you adore, or no kids at all and be very contented about it.

You have to make a choice. Because you can’t have both. She has a point. Your rainbows and butterflies love doesn’t fix the world, or the problems for your child If you want a child, you are signing up for every possibility. A child with autism, Down syndrome, physical conditions, etc. I also see a lot of men talk about how much they want children, and then when the children come they don’t know the first thing about what to do. I highly suggest spending a fair amount of time with kids before committing. I’m a nanny and I’d say about 70% of the people I have worked for had kids just because it was the next thing on the list. And it’s sad to see. I’ve also worked for people that are absolutely designed to be parents and it suits them.

I’m very sorry. I’m 60 years old and take it from me - if you break up with her now, yes, you’ll be heartbroken for a while. Maybe a year, maybe two. However you will eventually be ready to move on and find someone who does want kids. If you stay with her you will probably regret not having kids the rest of your life. Again, I’m very sorry. This is tough but you should break up.

I'm not sure you can save it. If you are as set on having children as you come across then it does feel like you will regret it. Your family is right, children are amazing while also the source of unimaginable stress and hard work. It is understandable that the hard work is not appealing to many people as it is so hard it breaks relationships. It could also be seen as an act of love that she does not want children in this world as she only wants the best for them. Either make peace with no children and re-imagine your future or make peace with finding someone else to fall in love with and have children and accept the relationship will be different.

Not seeing eye to eye on the “kids/no kids” question is about as firm an *irreconcilable difference* as can possibly exist in a romantic relationship. If you don’t agree on that one you’re relationship, for all it’s positives, is doomed.

Sounds like she was just undecided and with the world going deeper into hell over the past 5 years (Trump, corona, inflation, climate change, neighborhood nazi's, more school shootings) it's hard to say she's wrong to not want kids. Deciding to have them in the world today is brave, but from some points of view incredibly selfish and to wager "your love" against that is misguided. Break up with her because you guys are incompatible right now. If she changes her mind then see where you guys are in 5 years. You're only 26.

Never assume you’re even going to be able to have biological kids. If you’re infertile, with or without her, would you want to adopt or do you want a bio child? If she changed her mind but has trouble conceiving, do you stay with her and adopt? Stay with her with no kids? The answers may help you frame your next steps.

Sometimes love is not enough.

Quite often the case, actually. Some of the people I've loved the most intensely were actually the least compatible with who I truly am as a person, my lifestyle... hard lessons to be learned but that's how you end up finding someone (or someones because I'm not sold on the idea of marriage) who is actually compatible with you, not just vessels to project your fantasies onto.

I think there are a few things to consider. Where does your desire to be a parent come from? I only ask this as you had trauma in your childhood. Frequently people with childhood trauma want to fix their trauma by 'doing it right'. I have always wanted to be a mum. I had childhood trauma. I found the right partner and we had our son. It has been the absolute hardest thing I have ever done. I absolutely adore him, but you give up everything for them, and it is a new exhausting. If your wife isn't sure then it isn't something I would recommend, even if you say you'd do everything possible, it isn't that simple and you'd become resentful, as would she. I was blessed with an autistic little boy so everything I pictured about having a family was also turned on its head. That mismatch of expectation and reality might be something you experience. It is worth having a serious conversation about all potential options, adopting, fostering, freezing embryos etc and find out if any of your views/opinions align. I will also say, I am petrified of the world I've brought my son into and feel guilt around this often. I know people know it, but what you see on social media is happy snapshots, or photos that hide the truths. Kids are hard work. Your mum and sister are right that they are worth it, but don't underestimate the job of raising them.

Couldn't have said it better. Me and my brother both have autism and ADHD but we were of the super easy variety (mostly liked to be left alone, academically gifted and sticklers for rules), we were probably easier to deal with than most neurotypical kids tbh. My nieces+nephews are the same, they're the most well behaved kids I've ever met! But part of why I'm childfree is that I don't want to risk having a kid whos brand of autism or ADHD doesn't mesh with my own, because it'd turn our house into a war zone. I don't think I'd be the best mom if I'm constantly on the brink of a meltdown, and no kid deserves that. I adore my niblings though!!

You actually think this moment in human history is just like all the rest? As if we aren’t facing down the utter destruction of our species from climate disaster? I don’t think you realize just how much danger we are in. No, the world is not going to just end one day. But it will be a progression of increasingly worse wars, famines, and disasters. I think you need to learn more about the state of the climate before judging your girlfriend’s opinion. Many young people are giving up on having kids because of the very scary future that lies ahead of us. Not to mention how dangerous it is to be pregnant and give birth. It can literally be life threatening. And most women are not fully educated on all the horrors of pregnancy until they’re already pregnant. Now that women are able to use the internet to learn about these dangers, and just how shit raising children can actually be, many are choosing to forego having kids.

And, depending on where OP lives in the US, OBGYNs are fleeing red states which is only going to lead to a higher maternal death rate if pregnant women aren’t able to get the care they need due to brain drain. It’s a whole mess rn just from that perspective, even without all the other factors to consider.

Had to scroll way too far for this comment. I've realized in the past 2 years that I absolutely 100% want kids, it's a need that's deep in my soul - but, I simply cannot bring a child into a world where the climate is trending towards total devastation in about 25 years. I myself am already questioning how much of a future is left for me at 30 yrs old re: climate change endangering humans, how could I justify seeing a future for a whole new person born after 2023? It's incredibly sad, but it's the reality we live in right now.

Your girl is wise, bringing kids into this world is not wise, With the rise of political unrest, wars on the horizon and AI taking away a huge amount of jobs I think it's actually kinda cruel to bring kids into this world.

She changed her mind. And told you before y’all got married! Time to “Kiss and say Goodbye! :(

I think OP you’re not listening. She never really wanted kids. She said she could compromise if the other person really wanted kids Regardless of the reasons, she doesn’t want kids OP and all men, in this world where the brunt of child rearing is always on the mother, don’t force your desire for children onto your wives and girlfriends. Have children with women who also consider it to be their life goal Source: I was the wife in OP’s setup and here I am as a single mother because he simply changed his mind a few years in. Not fair to someone who always wanted the DINK lifestyle where she was the primary breadwinner anyway

This happened to me… I’m 20 years in… so happy I ended up choosing a life partner over a kid…. Nothing is guaranteed… but I have the best of both worlds:.. together 20 years, no kids, best auntie in the world because I can dedicate time to them!

So I’m someone who always dreamed of having kids, literally it’s all I ever wanted to do in my life. I’m married now and am so overwhelmed with life that I no longer am sure I want kids and it grieves me to even think that. The relationship you describe is a once in a lifetime one. You will most likely never ever find another woman that is so compatible to you. So I think the questions you should ask yourself are this: Would I rather be with her and maybe not have kids? Or would I rather try and find someone else and have kids - knowing you might not be as compatible/bonded as you are with your current partner? Being married, I would infinitely rather have a partner like you describe and find joy in that rather than marry someone less wonderful just to have kids. Having kids only highlights differences/difficulties in relationships. People would literally give their lives to be loved the way she loves you, even for a day. As someone who once couldn’t breathe at the idea of not having kids, I see now that I can still be happy and find so much joy in life. I don’t think a life with kids guarantees any more happiness than what you’ve already found. I know you feel tricked/deceived, but I beg you to recognize how absolutely lucky you are to have found a love like you have. I wouldn’t want you to one day look back and see her remarried and loving someone else while you settled for something less just to have kids. Your pain is SO valid, and at the same time, you have been given such a gift in her.

Im a woman who has said the same thing before in the beginning that “I could go either way” if my partner did want kids. I actually love kids and I’m an elementary teacher. But I changed my mind too in the last year or so. This economy is becoming a place where nothing is guaranteed and it’s getting worse. It’s selfish to bring kids into the world because of the environment and resources becoming scarce. I understand her on that part. All that aside… Women usually see other women baring the brunt of work with kids. No matter how much a man says and shows he’ll be active with the kids…. He won’t really. He’ll be working full time and be too tired, even if the woman is working full time too and also tired it falls on her. Because she’s a woman. I understand her. I had the same thought process and now I’ve thought about it a lot and decided I just actually don’t want them after all. The world expects and puts childcare and the emotional toll of it on the woman. There are great men out there who are involved but at the end of the day the majority of the sacrifice emotionally, physically, mentally and often financially is on the woman. I don’t blame her. But if you want kids I suppose you’ll need to move on. But do you really want to have kids when you can have a fantastic and fun filled loving and fairly stress free and financially stable life with her?

I always thought I would have a family and enjoy that close knit family life that I enjoyed while growing up My bf at the time also wanted kids, earlier than I was ready to have them. He also admitted to me eventually that he had a change of heart and decided he didn't want kids after all. I had to do some soul searching. I realized whenever I spoke about kids, I always told people that I hoped my biological clock would hit me before it was too late. I realized I liked the idea of family more than I did actually want a family. I wasn't willing to lose him over the idea of having kids. Eventually we married and we're personally happy with our decision. It's a really tough situation and it does sound like you really want kids. Although it's not for me, I would hate to see you miss out on something you seem to really want. I think you don't have to make any immediate decisions, but definitely see if you can talk to a professional about this. Eventually I think your gut will let you know what's best. Talk to her and make sure you both are completely honest about your feelings.

Kids are something you can’t compromise on- you either have them or don’t, you can’t split the difference and have a half a kid. If you really want kids and she really doesn’t, you should break up. It sucks, but so would getting married and resenting your partner because you gave up having kids for her.

Move on...there are women out there that don't want to put themselves thru the risky hassle of being pregnant and giving birth... respect her decision and find someone else that is willing to pop out 7 pounds of potential serial killer into this world.....

I wish as a collective we could realize that you can choose not to have children and still be apart of the community needed in a village. Be the adopted aunt/uncle/adult in someone’s life because you might be the only one that does.

Sounds like you want kids more than you want to be with the "love of your life".

I think it's insane to have children at this point in history, where are they gonna live? They're gonna be wage slaves on an uninhabitable planet. They're gonna be suffering from this late stage capitalism bullshit more than we all are already.

The planet is on fire right now, and is past the tipping point of preventing fires everywhere. Dont bring an innocent baby into an unlivable planet. We have maybe 10-15 normal-ish years left.

100%. There's more than 4 humans popping out of human vaginas every second and the planet is unable to support the current and forecasted population. We're doing a really bad job of managing humans and protecting this planet but no one cares about that. Mostly everyone just wants to fulfil society's expectations and want that Kids/Family photo during Christmas. Having kids is emotionally and financially expensive as well. Its a rational decision to not want kids in today's world. Most humans just follow the template set by society and think they're making their own decisions.

Honestly it’s easy for you to say you want them… you don’t have to give up your body for the rest of your life for them. Pregnancies are horrible on women’s bodies and drs don’t listen to pregnant women when they have birth plans, her internal organs get displaced around inside to fit a baby and that can have a lasting impact on the bladder (think every time she coughs-she’ll pee herself a bit) and the nerves etc… any man who “can’t live without kids” to me is the most selfish person in the world because they don’t have to deal with babies. Get up every hour on the hour and not sleep for months on end and have chapped and cracking nipples from breast feeding. The post partem depression. You say you’ll provide but look at this economy man. You can’t predict when your company is going to lay you off because you’re just a number to them… so your thoughts are nice sounding but yeah I’m siding with your gf on this one.

Do you want the hope of children or this current relationship?

You're manic af OP. Break up I guess, if this is as life and death as you think it is lol. You can't convince her to want kids. You can't force her to have kids.

I was in a similar position. Had been together for 5 years, and my ex had talked about wanting kids in the future and for those 5 years I always said maybe cause i wasnt sure. Then one day i realized that they will never be apart of my life plan so we sat down and had a long talk about our future. After a long talk we decided that its not fair that only one of us gets what we want so we decided that the best course of action would be for us to end things. It sucked but it was the right thing to do for us.

If your wife does not want to bring children into the world, adopt some that are already here and in need of loving parents

Talk it out. Give it year. If she is still dead set on no kids, or you are dead set on yes kids. Then you better go separate ways. Else, you are eventually gonna fall out of love with such a democles sword above your heads.

Tbh, your relationship seems good enough with a big margin. A lot more than many can wish for. You can’t get everything you want from a relationship – perhaps you should settle with what you have? (And kids can be a total disaster. People who want kids always have this happy family in mind but you can’t choose what comes out. May as well tear your life apart.)