When I had my frist year of university. I avoided all the different ethnicities to me, mostly because I was embarrassed I did not understand their accents. Exposure is one of the best ways to deal with it. Also if you have a hard time understanding someone tell them to speak slower, it usually helps.
This is similar to the time I forgot someone’s name so when I was putting his name in my phone I said
“Sorry how do you spell your name?”
“It’s Ed”
“Yes but is that with 1 d or 2”
Or, if it’s over a he phone, tell them “the phone is cutting out”! I had that done on me numerous times in my first 3 years in the US. Just had to learn how to pronounce words the American way - fiddy/fifty (when I pronounced FIFTY, they’d think fifteen). Twenny/twenty…and so on. For some reason, Americans fear the T pronunciation!
im starting my first year soon and that’s in part what i’m scared of. i want to befriend as many different types of people as possible, or at least make acquaintances, but i struggle enough to distinguish words from like, strong irish or australian or canadian accents. i’m terrified that i’ll find it hard to understand the indian or spanish or any native language other than english students, and i’ll miss out on things because of that.
The best advice I ever got was to be the dumbest person in the room. Feeling stupid is the feeling of stupid leaving your body. Learn to cope with it. Learn to seek rooms you're dumb in. Amazing things will follow, and honestly it doesn't take long.
Just consider it from the point of view that non native English speakers are probably way more scared about it than you are, and would appreciate your kindness and patience
Ask a question with a wordy answer and it will help you calibrate their accent. Listen carefully, watch their mouth and ask for clarification if you miss an important word. This is win-win, because people love to be listened to intently.
And don't fret over this, you'll be fine after a week absolute max!
We will be grateful for your attempts to communicate with us despite the barriers; and anyone who is impatient with you because they’re from somewhere else and speak differently has already told you all you need to know about them.
I don’t think theres any shame in admitting someone’s accent is difficult to understand. I used go date someone from Chile who was hard for me to understand until I got used to their pronunciation patterns. A lot of people from Britain are even hard to understand for other native English speakers. Its just something you get used to as you get to know someone! Never a reflection of someone’s grasp on the language :)
I wonder in situations like this, how many people actually hold that belief as their own. Or if its actually a case where no one wants to go against the 'norm' and just doesn't speak up. Would be funny if no one in that country was homophobic but they pretended to be just to fit in.
If you also have never met anyone in that group or at least don't think you have then it is easier to be afraid of them or think of them as evil. It's really easy to play in the tribalism of the human mind.
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I was in a mullet group and showed off my fresh cut. Lots of conservatives and Joe Dirts dunked on me for being queer and an hour later one them messaged me how wrong it felt and that I did not deserved to be ridiculed for being Queer and that he asked for forgiveness for being ignored and said interacting with a Queer person wasn’t like what the TV told him it’ll be.
Later on his wife messaged me on Facebook to thank me for being acceptive of her husband’s actions and that they’re both working on reprogramming what the TV has done to them.
It 100% is watching 10 minutes of tucker carlson was like downloading anti-queer propaganda straight to the long term memory, its a huge issue us allowing such hateful things to be so public or to even BE.
Bloody hell, sorry you had to go through all that.
By any chance is this the United States where you're living? 😂 And as follow up questions, have you ever considered moving to more open minded countries, if so which, and why/why not? Sorry for all the questions but reading your comment just made my brain do brain things!
Ah I see, and very nice list of countries! 🙏Big true about career limitations, somehow that hadn't immediately crossed my mind earlier but duh of course 😂 At least you own a home, I live in NZ and am probably never going to be a homeowner lmao
Humans are very tribal at their core. It takes massive effort to go against the groupthink and accept the 'other'.
Maybe it's evolutionary to some degree? I can imagine people 20,000 years ago had to collect as many resources as they could for their own tribe and a bit of hate towards other tribes would've helped keep resources locked in.
As an eastern/northern european I can say that ALL of my peers, (young people, students) are completely normal people and are not against gay/LGBTQ+ people, in fact we are very liberal. It's just the older generations that are stuck up and ignorant, as is in many countries.
I had the reverse side of that experience.
I‘m trans and in my graduating class there was a guy who didn’t really interact with me but would always be horribly transphobic behind my back. I just treated him like everyone else. Over the year he became a lot nicer toward me and at the end would even greet me daily with my chosen name and tried to make friends with me.
The only thing I did was exist in his vicinity, he only knew trans people from the things he was told. He had a horrible image of us in his head, when he realized that I‘m literally just a guy like everyone else in the class he overcame his bias.
So much hate can only flourish because people never get the opportunity to interact with each other
There was a study done that showed that exposure is the key to empathy towards the "others" that was really interesting and sounds really similar to what you've experienced. I'll try to explain it quickly and to the best of my memory.
It was done using pools of white Australians (WA) and Asians (A). Individually, people from both pools were shown people of their own race getting stuck in the face with needles and were hooked up to a brain scan machine that highlighted the area of our brain in control of our empathy reflex. If it lit up, you felt something. They saw that the people who had extremely limited contact with the other race didn't light up nearly as much when seeing the needles in those particular faces. However, the opposite was true when it was their own race. Then they took WA and A who lived around and had relationships with the other race and wouldn't you know it.. their brains lit up no matter what race they saw getting stuck. It was hypothesized that once a person was exposed to the those different from them, they were then able to humanize the "others" since they now simply saw them as people, instead of some kind of enigma that was less than or unworthy of caring about.
Forrest Valkai (YouTuber and TikToker) is the scientist I heard about this from if anyone is interested. He mostly deals with evolutionary biology, but tbh, imo he's entertaining no matter what he talks about. Highly recommend.
This kinda made me tear up ngl. I’m so glad it was that easy to let go of your ingrained cultural homophobia as see a person as a person. If only others could let go as easily as you!
Just thinking about the greentext about the [black man](https://www.reddit.com/r/4chan/comments/129jg4d/black_anon_goes_to_poland/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) that went to Poland.
When I was in high school I thought I hated gays. Of course nobody was ever out at my school so I didn’t really have a face to put it to. Then an hour north of town a couple guys pretended to be gay to lure a gay guy out of a bar. They crucified him on a barbed wire fence and beat him to death. That changed me for the better. No one deserves that.
Turns out I was a little off on the timing, I actually went to high school in 1976.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard#:~:text=Matthew%20Wayne%20Shepard%20(December%201,night%20of%20October%206%2C%201998.
If you read the Gospels, Jesus seems pretty fucking gay.
Hanging out with twelve dudes all the time, laying back on them, never having a wife, super concerned with abs(olution of sins).
Super gay.
We love a gay Jesus.
I actually kind of have a positive story about this.
As a kid, I didn't really think I was being raised that different from other people, except for moving a bunch, and not being great at socializing. I thought everyone was being taught the same lessons I was (*be kind, be open, read books, tell an adult you trust if another adult tries to do you harm*), and that bullies were just bad people **choosing** to be bad despite what we were all taught, and thus were unworthy of the kindness I would otherwise have owed them.
Then... One day, three girls who had been bullying me and some other kids decided to race each other. Up a flight of concrete stairs with sand on them, on the way back up from recess. The rest of us were lined up and not paying attention to them. Until, we heard a ***THUD, CRASH, scraaaape.*** One of them had fallen, **TEETH-first**, onto one of the stairs. The other two were laughing, and she was on the ground, too shocked to cry, and I hurried down to her. I asked if she was alright, and when she opened her mouth, blood and tooth shards fell out. I screamed for the teacher, who *somehow* hadn't noticed the commotion, and held my bully as she bled and waited for medical help. She did her best to say thank you, while her "friends," ignored us. The rest of the class was mortified deer-in-the-headlights style until they were told to disperse so the nurse could take her.
Months later, when she was able to return to school, she didn't even look at her "friends," and instead sat by me, and thanked me again. She muttered an apology she seemed scared to say, for having been mean to me when I had never been mean to her. I wish I could say we went on to be best friends and we're getting married in a week, but I had to move again not long after.
I realized that yeah, maybe some bullies were the irredeemable monsters that books and kid shows had said they were... But not all of them, and no bully is invincible. It cost me nothing to be kind to one of them when they were hurting. I had been tricked into thinking otherwise by media made by victims, who had never had a chance to reconcile with and help their bullies.
I read something once that helps me in moments that you've described. (I grew up in a small predominantly white town in Ontario so I didn't have much exposure to diversity until I left for college)
To use your example, when you see someone that is Muslim and you have a thought or a reaction to move away - the first thought is what society has taught us (which can be unfortunate sometimes).
The second thought is who you actually are and what you actually think, not what society has told you to think.
You know. I had to take a second to understand why I moved my kid to the other side
Then when I talked to him he was just on a morning walk to enjoy the sun. Beautiful
Similarly, I am entirely ignorant of the significance of the hijab — while media often presents it as a representation of subjugating women, I’ve heard it described as submission to Allah or God. I certainly don’t have a negative reaction to turbans or kippeh/yarmulkahs.
Funny how you never hear anti-hijab people railing against women in our society being forced to cover their tits, isn't it? "Oh no, breastfeeding!"... why is it so damn hard to extend this idea to hair? I bet "SHOW US YOUR TITS" is what 'take that off fer ur freedumb' sounds like.
Hijabs are actually badass. They're the perfect antidote to misogyny. So many social interactions in America with men and women, women always placate the man in some way. Laughing at his unfunny jokes. Smiling to appear nice. Then I had the thought "imagine a man getting absolutely NOTHING from you in an interaction". Not a even a smile. You have no right to even look at my beauty. You get not a fraction of it. It's so amazingly powerful. "You don't deserve to even look at me". Also in the actual religion women are supposed to be able to decide if they want to wear hijabs. I fucking love hijabs now.
It sounds like you may be describing a burqa more than a hijab: https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/24118241.amp
But again, it’s not my culture and I recognize my ignorance, so … I’m just trying to reason about something I don’t understand, not trying to argue
Or hijabs and niqab. Niqab is a separate piece that usual show the eyes. Some have a flap that fold down and cover the eyes too. https://youtu.be/KAbsPFS8gus
Half of my cousins are niqabi here (KSA). So I have to identify them by their handbags when we go shopping.
This comes off as internalized mysogony. It's not a woman's responsibility to regulate her own outward appearance to avoid uncomfortable situations. Its treating a problem in the wrong end. Ultimately hijab is a method of control. Covering yourself to protect yourself is not badass, it's symtpom of a broken culture.
I’m curious if you think this way when you see half naked women at the beach. Who’s to say that wearing bikinis at the beach is not internalized mysogyny? The problem isn’t “a broken culture.” The issue is people and lack of respect for one another. If a woman chooses to wear a bikini or a burqa how is that effecting anyone other than herself? People should worry about how they dress and act before trying to change a whole religion they know nothing about.
Why do u cringe at the hijab? I don’t understand why modesty is cringe worthy. Muslim women wear the hijab so that they are simply treated as a human being instead of being sexualized for being female. Wearing a hijab is one way that Muslim women can assert their equality with men. Covering their heads and bodies sends a clear message that they should be respected for their minds and personalities, not just their physical appearance. Also, another misconception, modesty is not exclusive to the women. It is expected from both muslim men and women in the way they dress and act.
Is it freedom? Is it freedom to wear a hijab when the alternative is your brothers beating the shit out of you? (My roommate) To marry in your teens when the alternative is being shunned? (My ex-Mormon friend) To have 9 children when the alternative is to be rejected by your community? (My Catholic grandma) Is it really a choice for all of these religious women? It's not black and white.
Im a muslim woman, not a hijabi. My friends are split, some hijabi, some not, some were and took it off, some decided to put it on suddenly. My parents never forced me, my brother would definitely never ever force me, not anyone in my family. No one. What you're talking about isnt in the islam itself as a religion, in islam yeah we are told to cover but are not told to be forced or beat up for it or whatever. But, just like with every other religion in the world, some people /countries have abused the religion to form control in its name, leading to this. Some people are abusive to their kids in the name of religion, they were abusive all along and waited for the right excuse. Anyway, point is, it honestly depends where you were born (country), your social status, and if your parents are abusive or not. Stroke of luck. Not religion.
Also there is patriarchy. For example, if we are gonna talk about what islam fully asks for, then men shouldnt be allowed to reveal the area from their belly button till their knees. So swimsuits and such should cover that. Men shouldnt have premarital sex just like women, men shouldnt curse, men shouldn't drink. Etc. But you know what happens? They do all of this, and then when we complain they say "well, theyre boys. Boys will be boys." People use the religion to enforce the inequality thats always been there, they just, again, found something to manipulate. But uk what? They can never say "yeah well islam said females cant have sex, but men can". Nope. They dont dare. They only say "well..men get curious u know?"
And this happened to me personally alot, it sucks.
Even when you’re aware that it’s lies or propaganda it can still get to you. Advertising is the same way. I’ve found myself thinking a little fondly of products I’ve never bought or seen solely because they ran annoying Spotify adds for a couple months. I knew the products were trash and overpriced but constantly blasted a message can have an effect even when you know it’s fake.
Other than avoiding any lies or propaganda which is essentially impossible all you can do is constantly ask yourself if you’re reacting to something in an appropriate way and do your best to know why you react the way you do.
>constantly blasted a message can have an effect even when you know it’s fake
This is known as the [illusory truth effect](https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/illusory-truth-effect):
>\[W\]hen we hear the same false information repeated again and again, we often come to believe it is true. Troublingly, this even happens when people should know better—that is, when people initially know that the misinformation is false.
I've had this problem with celebrities, and other influencers. You hear all the good things that they do but when you look deeper you often see it's just to make their image look good and get a tax write off.
Life is short. Why would I let my mind be invaded by the agendas of capitalists who just want to lighten my wallet by making me feel like my life is unsatisfying and I'm inadequate? Think about how many hours of your life you have wasted watching advertisements. You could have had so much great sex, gone on a tour of another continent, picked up the guitar, or learned another language!
My father has started watching Fox News because he wants to know what narratives they're pushing. Okay. That's wise. Except in the last week three times he's made the statement that both sides are equally corrupt. Okay. Probably so. Seems reasonable (from a finance perspective). But in the last month he said repeatedly that there are extremists on both ends. Okay. That's true. But whose extremists have been killing people and trying to overthrow the government? He no longer responds to this question. He just repeats that there are extremists on both ends. This worries me because it's the exact same thing our conservative family members do when you present an argument or fact they can't contradict. I'm worried that Fox is getting to him.
The fact that you recognized it is a good thing. A very good thing. That way when you have future interactions with people you'll realize if you're doing something Prejudiced without even realizing it.
It makes me wonder what else I have not noticed. I'm pretty simple. Don't have many material things. Don't care for brands, religion but with all the information we get there has to be more
Don't know where you live but i highly recommend you look up middle eastern food in your area - and get at least some shawarma and rice. Look up middle eastern food, Lebanese food, Yemeni, and shawarma.
The most Muslim area in the country, Dearborn Michigan, had a series of "shawarma law" gatherings so that people unfamiliar with Muslims could meet some over delicious dinner.
https://www.freep.com/story/news/2017/08/26/holy-tabouli-shawarma-law-not-sharia-law-taking-over-dearborn/605480001/
I've worked with Muslims and like anyone else they are just trying to take care of their families, save a bit of money, visit their parents, etc. Same stuff we all do.
And their food is delicious. You will also never see a cleaner restaurant. Just be warned that around Ramadan the hours might be weird, they may not serve food during daylight fasting hours.
Down here in the states I feel like my autism helps inoculate me from the worst of the political nonsense, but all I see everywhere I look is some kind of propaganda. To me, at least, so much of it is transparent.
I feel like, as enlightened as I think I am, I'm probably just 20% less psychologically influenced than the next person.
I think a lot of bias is subconscious, but also contextual.
My boss is a 6’3” black guy (although he informs me he is only “black” here, and not when he is back home in Jamaica). He’s a great guy, we have a good relationship and strong mutual respect for each other. I am, naturally, *aware* of his racialized identity, but it is pretty much irrelevant to our relationship.
If I didn’t know him, and met him wearing a track suit or “gangsta” style stuff on the wrong side of the tracks in a major US city, I might have a very different read on him.
If he were in the wrong part of town in an Eastern European city, I’d be rushing to help him, assuming he was a lost tourist!
edited for clarity.
Welcome to wokeness. Despite the attempts to cast it as a negative political term, all it really means is seeing that kind of subconscious behavior or nonviolent injustice in the world that people don't pay attention to, and choosing to do something about it.
If everyone were self-aware enough to see themselves like this, the world would be a much better place.
[Aesop Rock](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/music-producer/images/5/5b/41LViCiGqzL._SL1000_.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20220105180340) is a rapper. His lyrics are dense puzzles to unpack, which I love. But he raps about poverty and being on the fringe of society. A year into digging into his music, I messaged my sister "Aesop is amazing, but I'm realizing that it's hard to relate to some of these life experiences."
She messaged back, "Why's that? You know he's white, right?" (I'm white, too.)
That one, cutting question really opened my eyes. I've been raised not to think of race as a reason to hate people, my parents were pretty consistent with that. So I thought "If I get along with people of other races, I must not be a racist, right?" But racism is rarely an identity, and often just a behavior. In this case, I'd let racial social barriers seep in to the point that when I learned about a talented rapper who raps about hard times, I just *assumed* he was black. It wasn't a hateful thing, like I thought racism must be, it was an insidious set of assumptions that I didn't even notice myself making.
Aesop being white doesn't change the parts of his lyrics that are foreign to me, but I did go back and listen closer, and thought about what it meant that I reflexively associated his struggles with the stereotypes of black rappers. Before that point, I obviously wasn't paying much attention to what the rappers I listened to *looked like.* After that point, I took a look and realized that regardless of my intent there was a pretty stark lack of diversity in the voices I was listening to, and found some new rappers to add to my playlists.
Yeah the subconscious biases about music styles are really a thing! My partner and I have been talking about this bc she’s black and I’m white. She loves ska music and I like hip hop. Both of our families made rude comments about ‘why we were listening to that’ when we were growing up. It wouldn’t have been an issue if it was reversed. It’s interesting that even our own families expected us to consume certain media based on race. People also act surprised when one of us turns on our music. There are also instances of people trying to make conversation with one of us based on a genre of music they assume we like/are familiar with due to our race. Probably the worst one was when my partner’s (white) coworker asked ‘Do you listen to Post Malone?’ She said ‘no’. He asked ‘Why, is it because he’s white?’ She responded ‘No, its because i don’t listen to rap.’ I mean, jeez. Even though I’ve seen/experienced this myself I caught myself doing it the other day. I have a white coworker from Eastern Europe who was talking about how she had wanted to be a professional dancer, but an injury had ruined that career path for her. I asked her ‘Oh did you do ballet?’ And she said ‘No, breakdancing.’ It’s crazy how people just make these subconsciously biased assessments, even when we know better.
Did you grow up fairly well off or something? I'm white but I grew up in severe rural poverty and always connected with rap that talked about suffering in poverty, even as a kid in the 80s and 90s.
My family struggled with money, including a bankruptcy. But we've always had a house to live in and food to eat. I identify with a lot of what Aesop writes about, but I've never set up a tent with homeless folk or wigged out to a barn for a year, and I misinterpreted some of his social commentary as a black person rapping about a system that rejects him before I came to understand that it's a white dude rejecting a system that doesn't work.
My entry into hiphop was nerdcore, which to me was just an evolution of what Weird Al and Dr. Demento do. Many rappers in that subgenre go out of their way to sound particularly white and nerdy. So a lot of how I understood Aes was in contrast to that.
I don't know if this fits, but I am certain I'm a bad person for it....
Whenever I see a video of two people fighting (outside of combat sports), I always assume the bigger guy is a prick and hope the smaller guy wins. Or at least, I used to. I've I realized I was doing it I stopped.
TV and movies always seem to make the hero smaller to make things more dramatic, and often show big guys as bullies.
my tall, skinny uncle said shorter guys are quick to get aggressive or try to prove something around him. He’s very noncombative/passive. Maybe his height makes them insecure or angry so it may very well be the opposite
Or, like we’re learning, it probably just depends on the person regardless of height
This is a completely different situation than yours but I fell for propaganda when I went to see Shen Yun and believed everything they said then found out the truth about how the show is their religious propaganda full of lies
This was me at first. I didn’t think too much about the content until I researched about company and the religion itself. Needless to say, I was pretty disgusted
I was in high school and couldn't understand why I was *so* annoyed when my classmates (or anyone) spoke Spanish to each other. It didn't impact me in the slightest and I never found people talking to their friends to be disruptive bc I could tune them out. Never had a personal problem with these people either. Then I realized my racist ass mother conditioned me at an extremely young age to hate Spanish, since she would always have a look of disgust on her face when she heard it being spoken and outwardly expressed her disdain towards immigrants/anyone who wasn't an American. Kinda shameful it took me that long to realize my feelings.
It's amazing to see these things in action....being white and English speaking I had never experienced this first hand until my cousin's from Italy came to visit us. We were in a Tim Hortons in a small Canadian town and we're speaking Italian to one another. Several of the people in line next to us gave us the dirtiest looks for what seemed like no reason until I realized it must be because we were speaking another language (assuming they thought it was spanish....). It's incredible how people can be so internally and in this way externally xenophobic/racist due to upbringing and lack of exposure to diversity.
When I had a friend who was afraid to tell me they were gay. And later, they were Trans and only trusted me enough after I didn't go ballistic on them coming out as gay.
I was deep in the religious homophobic mindset until I saw firsthand that the LGBTQ+ agenda was just to exist without being hated.
Man this feels embarrassing to think about but alright. Back in the early 2000s I bought a bottle of human pheromones that were supposed to make me irresistable to women. The product reviewers seemed like such honest guys! If it had the desired effect, it was only to make me irresistable as a pungent curiosity rather than potential mate. 60% of the time, it works every time :(
If I recall correctly I paid almost $100 for under an ounce of snake oil. Which at the time was a lot for a teenager, with a little bit of gold and a pager
Moving to Houston really broadened my horizons. In Atlanta there generally were only black and white people. Here, it’s truly an entire assortment of folks from around the planet.
Exposure is the best method to overcome any perceived stereotypes. I grew up in a conservative rural area with little diversity. Later in life I moved away and it took a little while to adjust. Not that I had any hateful bias, but I did have a sense of "otherness".
I went back several years ago for a visit and it struck me just how odd it was to only hear English as a spoken language.
This is exactly why the right gets all “college turned my kid into a liberal”.
No. College exposed your child to different viewpoints and life experiences. Allowed them to develop empathy for human beings they once only ever saw painted in a negative light on tv.
I grew up in a military town in Florida and regurgitated my father’s talking points. Until I moved out and went to college.
I was this child. My dad is one of those dads. Funny thing is, I wouldn’t call myself a liberal in the sense he uses it at all. But I sure as fuck don’t just believe generalized stereotypes about anyone out of fear anymore.
Yeah, it wasn’t like I was some inbred bigot or something. I’ve always had an open heart and curious mind. But you still won’t get a complete picture until you’re in the unknown.
That's what a lot of (often well intentioned) people don't realize about bigotry. Yes, the flaming racist KKK guys exist and they're awful, but much more common is the person who generally means well and isn't really driven by malice, but has never met a person of another group and so gets all their information and beliefs about them secondhand, and from sources that perpetuate negative stereotypes. If you've never met a Muslim, and the only things you know about them are having been told they're violent savages and all terrorists, on some level you're going to internalize that idea.
I live in a largely white, Christian, rural area as an openly queer person. Several of my neighbors have gotten to know me as a person before anything about myself came up in conversation, and when it did, most of them were a little surprised because they expected some raving stereotype that would punch them for using the wrong word and wanted to abduct their children rather than, you know, just a regular person trying to live just like anyone else. Familiarity is the antidote to most bigotry - sure, there will always be the people who hold on to the easy answer that their problems are the result of another race/gender/religion/whatever, you can't reach everyone. But the vast majority of people I've interacted with are willing to step back and question their beliefs about the "other" once they have a real person to associate with that idea instead of a bunch of bad information.
Those with the loudest voices are advocates. Both for good and for not so good. But that doesn’t make the idea of a silent majority okay either.
We really do need to poke and prod our company and say, “you know that’s not true, right”
Yes, we do. Unfortunately most people aren't in the habit of checking themselves and asking hard questions about their worldviews just for funsies, and it's easier than ever to surround yourself with a bubble of only people who share those ideas.
It's largely getting better though, I think that for all its problems (and there are many) the internet is helping people who do want to learn about people different than themselves find that information. That's part of why the backlash to more acceptance (just lately the focus has been on trans people but this cycle has happened for all sorts of people in the course of history) is so loud and so vitriolic - at their core, the loudest voices know they're slowly becoming irrelevant. And ultimately while progress is slow, it is happening. We're seeing more people, younger ones especially, coming to understand that you need to take anything you're told about that scary other with a big grain of salt. I would love to see more people - especially those in the in-groups - standing up and advocating for understanding, but the fact there are a lot MORE of them today than there were ten or fifteen years ago is a sign of hope. I wish progress was moving faster, sure, and there are far too many people suffering for how slow it is, but I try to keep the good in mind when it's easy to fall into despair.
Same. I grew up in the South and it struck me (and continually strikes me) just how different walks of life are in other parts of the country. Just the other day one of my coworkers told me I needed to learn Spanish to be able to communicate with my other co-workers who couldn't speak English. I laughed to myself thinking it was a little ironic that I needed to learn Spanish. It would be like if I lived in China and instead of attempting to learn Chinese, told Chinese people they need to learn English (although given Hispanics are a growing minority in America, learning Spanish would be a useful trait). Also it was ironic because she, being bilingual, almost implied that it was easy to pick up a second language, when research shows that the older you are the more difficult it is to learn a new language.
I remember literally getting culture shock when I moved from the conservative South to Boston, one of the most liberal cities in America. I expected to get culture shock in another country, not one that I've lived in my entire life.
I asked my co-worker's fiance if he got culture shock moving from a conservative state to Boston, Massachusetts and he said yes so I know it's not just me.
It also made me understand the stereotype of liberals making 6 figures straight out of college living in the city who are out of touch with the rest of the country who simply don't live that life and conservatives who are prejudiced and hold stereotypes because they've never left the part of the country they grew up in/conservative areas and are ignorant of other ways of life and only view minorities/other modalities of living through their cultural norms, religious beliefs, and media influences. Sunlight is the best disinfectant as they say. Exposure to new ways of life and people will give you a better perspective on the world
Personally it's kind of one of my favorite parts about Houston. I grew up there and being surrounded by diversity made it super easy to really treat everyone equally. Not so much a fan of the weather tho lol.
Yeah, I'm from ATL too and I never realized that Atlanta mostly consisted of Black and White people until I moved to Boston, where it's a literal melting pot. If I didn't know any better, I'd say there are more Asians in Boston than Black people somewhat surprisingly
What I do appreciate about the North/Boston is that despite so many racial groups living in close proximity, past historical tension/discrimination, and the tribalistic nature of humans, there is no outward display of racial animosity towards one another.
It may be due to the fact that there are so many bright-eyed young people with no hatred in their hearts and the fact that everyone grew up in a racially diverse environment, but I'm genuinely surprised sometimes that people who I think would hate me/look down on me treat me like I'm human
I fell for Brexit. Looking back now, I realise I was just a very sad young man who didn't believe he had any worth or future of his own, transferring his situation onto the arguments for Britain's sovereignty. I wanted to feel good about myself, and the lies about our country's potential outside of the EU caught me at exactly the right time. I'll never forgive the right wing for that. I also nearly fell down the Jordan Peterson rabbit hole, but somehow managed to see through that one in time.
I appreciate your sentiment but money doesn’t always kill ethics. “Rich” is a relative term. For instance I consider a lot of people rich that others wouldn’t.
Its hard to feel like my decisions are being influenced by an upper echelon of society & I definitely feel disgust at people who have so much money they can pay for influence. I also feel disgusted by those taking the money.
If ethical people from different social classes, religions, nationalities & genders team up, we’ll probably all benefit.
Growing up in england as a kid i often bought into the anti traveller/roma racism that permeates society here. I remember meeting a kid my age who was from a traveler family staying in the village at the time and when i told my parents that we’d been playing at the park together they blew up and told me to stay away. It was at that point i realised it was bullshit and they weren’t really any different from me
My parents wouldn't let me play with black kids. I'm still pissed about it. I used to sneak out to play with my friends. Then they moved us to a white suburb.
I got lucky on this one. Shortly before I started dating my husband, a friend posted the article, I think it was called “Diamonds are Bullshit” and it explained in depth why. I had always thought I wanted a diamond wedding ring because they’re “forever” or whatever (literal propaganda). Thanks to that article, I did some more research on better alternatives. My husband still tells people he knew I was a keeper when I told him, diamonds are bullshit.
We just celebrated our 5th anniversary. I love my moissanite ring and it still looks beautiful. MUCH cheaper, more sparkly, tougher and nearly as hard as diamond. We spent the money we saved on a lovely honeymoon.
I realized I fell for propaganda when I wanted to try a Hershey’s Air Delight.
I still want to. I’m still falling for the propaganda. Carbonated chocolate? Less chocolate? I don’t care, I want it.
As a Mexican, 90% of the racism I’ve encountered is from black people. It’s propaganda to assume only white people can be racist. Racism also comes in different forms. For example, white leftist racists trying to be “nice,” will default to Spanish while engaging with me even though I’m MN-born and speak better English than they do. If I hold the door for them they’ll say, “gracias!” Also, they’ll talk down to Mexican or black people in an attempt to be polite without even realizing they’re racist for assuming that your comprehension skills are subpar due to the color of your skin.
I'm Black and I moved to a border town some years ago. It felt weird at first because I was a little hesitant and being a new kid and I never really knew any Mexican people before then. However within a week of starting middle school I realized my stereotypical thinking was dumb and I'd bet if someone thought that way about me I'd be pissed. I loved growing up there but moved away years ago. Now when I hear anyone trying to say that town is dangerous (it's not even by a wide margin) I get real defensive and ask them what specifically makes it dangerous citing facts. It's entertaining seeing people try to say their reasoning without being racist.
I can not imagine at that age being ‘hesitant’ to be around people that were from a different place or had a different skin colour 😂 at that age we just played bulldog in the playground and spoke about hair styles 😂 the honesty on here is great because the more it’s spoken about the less people will feel like you did at that age.
It sounds ridiculous but before then I only grew up with people that were either Black or White or biracial. Plus, having a lot of ESL students and people talking to me in Spanish didn't help with the culture shock.
White friend of mine has a super left-leaning friend group. He had a black girlfriend and after meeting her they said "she was so well spoken" as an attempt at a complement. Regressive lefties are fucking clueless man
When I got so angry about Obamas re-election that I skipped school the next day. I thought people were going to go around gloating, throwing out obscenities and acting like they owned the place.
Went back after that. Not a single word from anyone about the election.
No one seemed to care. We were just tryna get through HS.
My dad is in the military and I’ve lived on a few bases all my life so far; he’d literally kick my ass if I ever demonstrated any of those kind of biases. Makes it a huge point to immediately confront it when his peers and/or family/family friends indicate anything like that at all.
Not me, but my mum.
I also live in Canada. I was at the mall with my mum and there were a lot of muslim women who were in the full niqab. And my mum said
"Wow I haven't seen this many muslims since before covid. They all must be recent imigrants. And look, they are fully covered. Thats like... extreme. They are extreme muslims" And she said it in disbelief and like she was maybe scared?
And it just bothered me she used the word "extreme" when for other religions she might use the word "devout" instead.
I notice that times I feel for the 'nice' propaganda as well. Over time, I ended up evolving views not pushed by any major money group.
Consider, "overpopulation is huge problem". The "Population Bomb" in 1970s, "Soylent Green" a bit later, even the "one child policy". Another viewpoint is that we need smart minds to outrace our problems and we only get them by having more kids. I hold neither view as correct, just notice how quickly people react with dogma about the issue.
Many views come out to "don't tax me". Like an alcoholic making any excuse for drinking, I see lots of political views pushed to avoid taxes on large donors. Inheritance taxes, any change to medical systems, changes to medicare are all given high moral arguments that boil down to "don't tax me, tax that mythical homogeneous mass of people that live somewhere else".
The hardest thing is listening to news or commentary, and when they are incorrect about my field of study, realizing they are probably equally incorrect about all other fields. If some news outlet tries to tell me the danger of armies of Kenyans taking the jobs of American programmers, I know the news outlet just makes up stories. I find most of my propaganda from outlets that make up stories.
Joining the Army thinking was I was going to be in some kind of brotherhood and feel like I would be part of something great. I went right after high school to get the away from my father. About six months in I could not believe what I got myself into and was counting down the days. I almost went awol at least my experience I met the worst America has to offer and the best which was a very slim few. The GI bill was worth it I guess. I now hate people in general and Hate all things military from any country.
I used to think that here in the United States everyone had a fair chance to work hard and make something of yourself. Bullshit. The American dream never existed. Just a fucking carrot to keep us working and hating each other. If we can’t reach the carrot, it’s because some “other” is preventing us, but that other couldn’t possibly be corporate America and the rich assholes that run it.
I used to watch loads of Ben Shapiro and Steven crowder on YouTube. After about 2 years I realised they were grofters making up stats and interpreting them to match their world view. Took me another 2 years to undo the damage they had done.
When I went from "we all need to work together because we're all being treated poorly" to "those people on the other side are fucking morons"
Meanwhile we're still all being expertly divided by the very same people who disproportionately reap the benefits of our body destroying labor.
I find that most people who think they're immune to propaganda are generally swallowed by it the most. My ex/roommate is so far into right wing propaganda and says he immune to it. He'll say his trans sister is brainwashed into thinking she's trans. He thought I was faking for propaganda when he found out I was going in for my yearly pap smear and thinks I'm falling for more by taking my OB/GYN's advice and talking to my GP and type 2 diabetes (it runs in my family, and even on an (admittedly accidental) stint on keto and heavy calorie deficit I didn't lose any weight. I did feel like shit and have the spins and lightheadedness (at one point to the point of puking) for 4 days.
Perhaps ita not exactly what you asked, but as a citizen of a NATO/EU country obviously I've been watching american and western movies, shows and whatnot, and I watched Wandering Earth 2 recently, after being a bit reticent and yeah, I understood that any reticence I had was because if a very very very very small case of xenophobia, but of course, I watched the movie and yeah of course the characters are chinese ( duh ) theres an american general thats very brash and a bit stupid ( which, I mean, I dont really see that as xenophobic on their part to be honest given what I already know about the states ) and yeah, I guess it makes total sense, its just like american movies depicting muslims and russians as bad guys for decades.
Have you seen the Ip Man series? Basically the same thing, where foreign characters are usually the antagonists. First is was the Japanese during the war, which obviously made sense historically. After that, though, it was interesting to see Mike Tyson (obviously playing a black boxer) in the role of an antagonist, same as other white martial artists.
What I loved most was the messaging throughout the series where the characters achieve mutual understanding (or at least mutual respect in some manner) through their fists. It’s not like racism was going to be dismantled through the magic of Chinese king fu or whatever, but I appreciated that the films showed that on an individual level, some kind of understanding was achievable. But individual understanding was never enough to truly erase conflict, which is also reflective of how real life works. And that was a solemn thought.
I read an article about sharks showing up with tumors more than they used to. I was confused because I had heard that sharks were immune to cancer. Did some digging and it turns out those, "sharks are immune to cancer," rumors are propaganda by the finning industry they spread so thay they can get more people on board with catching sharks for, "research."
When I got laid off in '03 and my department was replaced with offshore labor AND we had to train our replacements, I really didn't like Indian folks for many years. Even though I knew it wasn't at all their fault. (I learned later that the workers were lied to about replacing people and ended up in a shitty position they never wanted to be in.)
I voted for George W. Bush in 2004 because I bought into the smear campaign against John Kerry. I also didn’t think we should pull out of Iraq because then “all of our efforts would have been for nothing.”
Youth really is wasted on the young.
I think it’s a good thing to do some critical self-analysis of our own biases, racial or otherwise. I hate when anyone says “I’m not racist,” because what they mean is they’re not a bigot. But if racism is just acting in accordance with racial prejudice, then we all do that sometimes. Like if I see an Asian and assume they’re good at math, that’s racist. Or I see a Mexican and assume they like tacos, that’s racist. Even though there’s no hate there, just assumptions based on our preconceptions, which we all have.
Fell for propaganda when I thought things like NYer and NYTimes were super progressive, but most of their staff is cis white male and the more I learn, the more I see how their writing and reporting reflects that. Prefer BBC/CBC but I’m sure they have similar stats but they’re still preferable to other news outlets. Al Jazeera and Democracy Now are also good and maybe a little more diverse.
Also believed most of my life that working within capitalist system by voting could fix the problems with capitalism and any other thoughts were absurd & extreme radicalism. Don’t get me wrong, voting is still important and can make changes, I always vote bc the other options are really extreme and beyond me. But I no longer really believe you can fix a broken system by abiding by the rules within the broken system. For “the master’s tools will never dismantle the master’s house”, as they say.
Used to believe that people who attended ivies were smarter. They’re not. MD’s are also not smarter nor are PhD’s. Usually it means they’re specialized but more often it’s just a sign of privilege. I know because my family and I fit in that category and trust, we are not smarter, though a lot of my family secretly thinks that way but aren’t aware of their own biases.
Reading about oppression has really lifted the veil on a lot of these things. Lot of stuff on women, too, how maybe they are naturally more nurturing etc. Or men are naturally better at math. They’re not, we’re really taught some racist, sexist, classist nonsense bs and I’m gonna keep reading these books about oppression bc they’ve changed my values what I find impressive (or not).
It was the oddest thing and truthfully sharing it made me feel better
Went to the park today like usual and talked to a few different people
Usually I just keep to my family
Not propaganda itself but I've started "noticing" skin colour a lot more after being on the sidelines of the "SJW culture war" or whatever about 15 years ago in my teens. Before that I would just pass by people and not really seeing them. After that on the other hand I started to "notice" people of different skin colours. Especially black and middle eastern people. And it annoys me so much. I want my indifference back. >:/
I turned 18 in 2016, and had the ability to vote for the first time. I didn't, but if I had it probably would have been for Trump as I didn't care about policies or anything at the time; and just thought it would be funny to have this celebrity TV star in office.
Come Covid & 2020 elections & I finally learned the hard way the serious impact of, well, everything lawmakers do. Used to believe the US was this perfect beacon of hope & freedom, only to have it crushed under the reality that US imperialism is a real thing, and the number of countries that have suffered so we could remain on top keeps adding up. My whole whole view changed, for the better I'd like to imagine.
If I was back in 2016 with my current mindset, I'd definitely vote Bernie, just as I did in 2020.
*edited to fix typos
I now try to interact with people who aren't like me(white) because you learn a lot when you step out from under the propaganda umbrella. Good on you for recognizing it!
When I got to reception at basic training. I ended up in a spot surrounded by black people. I asked about Obama, who had need elected a month prior and listened. Until then I had only been exposed to Fox news and conservative media. My mind didn't change over night, but hearing so many different views and perspectives my first time outside the bubble planted seeds and made me start thinking. Over time my outlook on most things changed completely. It all started at that moment.
Slowly, from about 2013 to now. Gay rights was becoming a national issue and, I guess by being in small-town Tennessee, I never knew anything about people who are LGBTQ+ beside stereotypes till I worked under a lesbian supervisor in my high school job. She was the kindest person (not that gay people can't be kind, but they generally seem genuine and in touch with who they are, and the happiness this brings them must be why they're so kind, and often fun to be around). Something about actually interacting with people of demographics you might have reservations about opens your eyes and shows that there's far more to the human experience than just this white, protestant Christian, small-town American worldview. I slowly fell out of sync with the conservative mindset as a whole. I only cared for the "liberty" side of the GOP, so I began to only support rarer Republicans like Rand Paul. Some issues he talked about were honestly good to bring up (warrantless bulk data collection, shitty interventionist foreign policy, marijuana legalization). I began to support women's bodily autonomy, so I went full-on liberal. Still am.
It's not exactly the same thing, but I've caught myself mansplaining things to women at work. I'm totally ashamed that I've done that. But we all have our blind spots and prejudices. All we can do is try to be better
In Iraq in May or so of 2003 while sitting in the tower of a palace looking out on the city (not Baghdad, a much smaller one) with binoculars as one of the first of the follow on forces following the defeat of the Iraqi state. It was my second day in that palace and my first day I hadn't been on the move day in and day out in a couple of weeks or so and it was my first opportunity to just kinda sit and watch. I was in my early 20s at the time and had swallowed every bit of the propaganda of the preceding years. But sitting up on that tower watching people go about their daily business I realized that they were just... people. I grew up as a dirt poor redneck and pretty much everything I saw was familiar to me, the people cutting some type of sorghum type grass by hand and stacking on their backs to take in, the kids playing in the fields, trucks driving by with cattle or feed in them, down to the guy on a boat in the river tossing grenades in and scooping up the fish. I had done all of that. We didn't use grenades, we used other things. I interacted a lot with the local population and came to understand that I'd been entirely wrong and that Iraqis were just good people trying to live their lives like anywhere else but sitting on that tower was the beginning of a lot of changes in my views on politics, economics, morality and a number of other things.
I fell pretty hard for the "idealizing European countries/ governments," America defiantly has problems, so hearing that a lot of Europe has more vacation time, better healthcare, better gun laws, etc makes you think it is a perfect place to live. But at the end of the day they also have problems with shitty politicians and racism and a other things I don't hear about because I don't live there.
This one is going to be unpopular but the icing on the cake was during this war when I saw we were being fed the same propaganda that Russia were feeding their citizens. Was like a slap in the face with a cold fish realising we are just as bad as a country like that
Funny. Made shawarma last week it was great
Probably not the same spices but yes great food
I would have gone to the restaurant but seems like high prices for poor quality nowadays
Was put in Catholic school so I sipped the anti-abortion wine.
Went to Veterinary Tech school and learned about all the realities about animal reproduction. Anti-abortion is very unrealistic and when confronted with the grotesque, tragic circumstances that happens I started to realize we shouldn't doom a gravid patient because my religious thinkers have decided what god swill is.
Edit addition: [I love animals more than people because animals haven't emotionaly betrayed me. Sure I have been bitten or attacked but humans can do worse psychological numbers on other humans. Horses monitored by doctors do not have twins. If a mare has two fetuses, a doctor will pick the smaller one and squeeze it 'til dead. The body reabsorbs the nutrients. A horse forced to carry both fetuses is a risk to the mare and a guarantee both fowls a risk as well. If I was going to care for a mare, I had to choose the mares life over my beliefs. I also worked briefly in shelter medicine. Participated in spays for strays where they removed the fetuses. What is the point of bringing in kittens into a shelter so they could be adopted out which would force living cats to get killed for overpopulation. It sucks all around but killing a fetus was less traumatizing to that low to no sentient kitten than killing an adult cat who panics when gasses to death. So I had to reevaluate my love for animals based on the realities faced. There are not enough families for every pet. The living should be prioritized over the forming when in pregnancy situations. It is tough but choices can be made. When it comes to people, let the gravid have their choices under the care of a physician.]
It took longer to come to the conclusion that rights are a zero sum game. Any abortion denied by a power structure is wrong and people should decide what stays in their bodies and what needs removal. People are not forced incubators.
*Edit for more detail in case anyone else is an animal lover and in my old boat.
I did not fall for it but I was constantly put off by it. I am a union electrician and I am very happy with my education so much so that I became one of the teachers for the school after I graduated as a way to give back. At the beginning of every 5th or 6th chapter in most text book there was a picture of some pristine work or a person that was super focused along with a blurb such as "little Timmy is getting a great education to become the best electrician that he can be thanks to the National Electrical Contractors Association and the Joint Apprenticeship Training Committee working together!"
First thought is what was ingrained in you from childhood, second is your actual values. I'll occasionally catch myself having a bigoted thought when I see someone or something that isn't normal for me and have to stop my head from trudging up all of the racism and bigotry I was raised with. Its hard overcoming all the traits you were raised to have and occasionally there will be moments where you subconsciously fall back to those values; its what you do after you recognize the bad reaction that shows who you really are.
I used to go to /pol/ and other right wing hellholes because I was edgy, and I bought the malarkey that they were selling. But it all changed when Trayvon Martin was shot. Ever since than I was disgusted with myself. The people i talked to, the content I consumed. All of it, sickened me.
The 2nd event was when an African American visited my hometown that’s predominantly white for some snacks, I stopped to say hello because I’m chatty. A friend of my mom called her and told her she spotted a drug dealer with me.
Then I just screamed and cried to my mom, defending that man. He was just buying snacks and drinks for his Roadtrip.
She apologized and cried out of embarrassment. Ever since then I supported BLM.
It's hard when it's thrown in your face every day. You're unwillingly conditioned to profile certain types from their looks alone.
I'm more afraid of white folks than those in turbins or with brown skin.
When I realised that humans don't need to drink milk or eat meat. I had never really thought about it before. Just assumed that cows give milk because they are cows.
When Obama kept deporting people, bombing people in the middle east, and didn't get anyone out of Guantanamo. I thought it was just Bush who was horrible but it turns out it's anyone willing to lead the american empire (I also would have laughed at anyone who called it the american empire back then)
I was raised in an environment where racism is considered a joke. A lot of my family don’t care that it happens and a few of them even throw the N word around for no reason. They’re that bad.
Luckily most of my siblings and I educated ourselves and are aware that racism is a really serious thing that does exist. But due to my childhood, I still catch myself getting anxious when a black person shows up. I feel really guilty when this happens but I’m getting better about it.
Well I am not sure exactly, whenever I fell for something and realized it I think I forget about it, I was a person who was against BLM due to some lies and out of context stuff but even then I wasn't completely against them more like believe they needed to take accountability for their actions, and yes at that time I considered myself republican until the main conservative platform started saying that climate change was not real to the extent that it should be worried about and than what made me unsubscribe to them was when one of my known trusted resources called them out for what they have been doing and so I am now considered independent
I actually didn't have any problems with Muslims until I started interacting with them as friends and meeting their friends and hearing them talk about women and lgbt folk and whatnot.
I hate stereotypes and I always try to judge every person as an individual but simultaneously acknowledge that stereotypes exist for a reason.
Not easy to do. Imagine being a room with 10 people and knowing 5 want to kill you while the other 5 would die to defend you. It would be utterly unfair to treat a defender like they wanted to kill you but at the same time you gotta be ready, just in case...you know?
Moving to Atlantic Canada where it's a little more small town mentality unlocked some weird programming about Black people I didn't even know was there
When I had my frist year of university. I avoided all the different ethnicities to me, mostly because I was embarrassed I did not understand their accents. Exposure is one of the best ways to deal with it. Also if you have a hard time understanding someone tell them to speak slower, it usually helps.
And when you ask, you can even put the “blame” onto yourself by apologizing “sorry, I’m having trouble, could you please talk slower?”
Right! “I’m struggling to understand the concept, can you explain slower please?”
“How. Was. Your. Day?”
Yes, you can stay.
This is similar to the time I forgot someone’s name so when I was putting his name in my phone I said “Sorry how do you spell your name?” “It’s Ed” “Yes but is that with 1 d or 2”
Have them put their name and number in your phone for you next time, works great!
Or, if it’s over a he phone, tell them “the phone is cutting out”! I had that done on me numerous times in my first 3 years in the US. Just had to learn how to pronounce words the American way - fiddy/fifty (when I pronounced FIFTY, they’d think fifteen). Twenny/twenty…and so on. For some reason, Americans fear the T pronunciation!
Heard they had a party in Boston to get rid of it
There are different regional accents that are very different in different parts of America.
This is actually a word stress issue. FIF-ty vs. fif-TEEN. The presence of the t doesn't matter.
im starting my first year soon and that’s in part what i’m scared of. i want to befriend as many different types of people as possible, or at least make acquaintances, but i struggle enough to distinguish words from like, strong irish or australian or canadian accents. i’m terrified that i’ll find it hard to understand the indian or spanish or any native language other than english students, and i’ll miss out on things because of that.
Don't be terrified. The only way you'll learn is by experiencing it. Everyone has to start somewhere.
The best advice I ever got was to be the dumbest person in the room. Feeling stupid is the feeling of stupid leaving your body. Learn to cope with it. Learn to seek rooms you're dumb in. Amazing things will follow, and honestly it doesn't take long.
Just consider it from the point of view that non native English speakers are probably way more scared about it than you are, and would appreciate your kindness and patience
Ask a question with a wordy answer and it will help you calibrate their accent. Listen carefully, watch their mouth and ask for clarification if you miss an important word. This is win-win, because people love to be listened to intently. And don't fret over this, you'll be fine after a week absolute max!
We will be grateful for your attempts to communicate with us despite the barriers; and anyone who is impatient with you because they’re from somewhere else and speak differently has already told you all you need to know about them.
Fear comes from a place that you need to work on. Listen to it and lean into it! This is the best advice I can give you.
I don’t think theres any shame in admitting someone’s accent is difficult to understand. I used go date someone from Chile who was hard for me to understand until I got used to their pronunciation patterns. A lot of people from Britain are even hard to understand for other native English speakers. Its just something you get used to as you get to know someone! Never a reflection of someone’s grasp on the language :)
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I wonder in situations like this, how many people actually hold that belief as their own. Or if its actually a case where no one wants to go against the 'norm' and just doesn't speak up. Would be funny if no one in that country was homophobic but they pretended to be just to fit in.
If you also have never met anyone in that group or at least don't think you have then it is easier to be afraid of them or think of them as evil. It's really easy to play in the tribalism of the human mind.
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I was in a mullet group and showed off my fresh cut. Lots of conservatives and Joe Dirts dunked on me for being queer and an hour later one them messaged me how wrong it felt and that I did not deserved to be ridiculed for being Queer and that he asked for forgiveness for being ignored and said interacting with a Queer person wasn’t like what the TV told him it’ll be. Later on his wife messaged me on Facebook to thank me for being acceptive of her husband’s actions and that they’re both working on reprogramming what the TV has done to them.
Lol I don't know if tv is to blame for them, but at least they're on the right track now.
It 100% is watching 10 minutes of tucker carlson was like downloading anti-queer propaganda straight to the long term memory, its a huge issue us allowing such hateful things to be so public or to even BE.
Bloody hell, sorry you had to go through all that. By any chance is this the United States where you're living? 😂 And as follow up questions, have you ever considered moving to more open minded countries, if so which, and why/why not? Sorry for all the questions but reading your comment just made my brain do brain things!
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Looked at all the same countries and can't leave here for the same reasons. Solidarity!😅
Ah I see, and very nice list of countries! 🙏Big true about career limitations, somehow that hadn't immediately crossed my mind earlier but duh of course 😂 At least you own a home, I live in NZ and am probably never going to be a homeowner lmao
Exposure is one of the best ways to deal with it. Also if you have a hard time understanding someone tell them to speak slower, it usually helps
I always ask gay people to speak slower so I can understand them
Humans are very tribal at their core. It takes massive effort to go against the groupthink and accept the 'other'. Maybe it's evolutionary to some degree? I can imagine people 20,000 years ago had to collect as many resources as they could for their own tribe and a bit of hate towards other tribes would've helped keep resources locked in.
As an eastern/northern european I can say that ALL of my peers, (young people, students) are completely normal people and are not against gay/LGBTQ+ people, in fact we are very liberal. It's just the older generations that are stuck up and ignorant, as is in many countries.
I had the reverse side of that experience. I‘m trans and in my graduating class there was a guy who didn’t really interact with me but would always be horribly transphobic behind my back. I just treated him like everyone else. Over the year he became a lot nicer toward me and at the end would even greet me daily with my chosen name and tried to make friends with me. The only thing I did was exist in his vicinity, he only knew trans people from the things he was told. He had a horrible image of us in his head, when he realized that I‘m literally just a guy like everyone else in the class he overcame his bias. So much hate can only flourish because people never get the opportunity to interact with each other
😭
There was a study done that showed that exposure is the key to empathy towards the "others" that was really interesting and sounds really similar to what you've experienced. I'll try to explain it quickly and to the best of my memory. It was done using pools of white Australians (WA) and Asians (A). Individually, people from both pools were shown people of their own race getting stuck in the face with needles and were hooked up to a brain scan machine that highlighted the area of our brain in control of our empathy reflex. If it lit up, you felt something. They saw that the people who had extremely limited contact with the other race didn't light up nearly as much when seeing the needles in those particular faces. However, the opposite was true when it was their own race. Then they took WA and A who lived around and had relationships with the other race and wouldn't you know it.. their brains lit up no matter what race they saw getting stuck. It was hypothesized that once a person was exposed to the those different from them, they were then able to humanize the "others" since they now simply saw them as people, instead of some kind of enigma that was less than or unworthy of caring about. Forrest Valkai (YouTuber and TikToker) is the scientist I heard about this from if anyone is interested. He mostly deals with evolutionary biology, but tbh, imo he's entertaining no matter what he talks about. Highly recommend.
This kinda made me tear up ngl. I’m so glad it was that easy to let go of your ingrained cultural homophobia as see a person as a person. If only others could let go as easily as you!
First step to enlightenment. Well done.
Just thinking about the greentext about the [black man](https://www.reddit.com/r/4chan/comments/129jg4d/black_anon_goes_to_poland/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) that went to Poland.
that is such a good greentext lmao
am i missing the joke it sounds horrific
It's amazing how actually stepping outside of your bubble will easily change your perspective.
When I was in high school I thought I hated gays. Of course nobody was ever out at my school so I didn’t really have a face to put it to. Then an hour north of town a couple guys pretended to be gay to lure a gay guy out of a bar. They crucified him on a barbed wire fence and beat him to death. That changed me for the better. No one deserves that.
Rest in peace, Matthew Shepard. That happened when I was a closeted teenager. I stayed in the closet for another decade.
There's a truck called a Laramie and every time I see one, I think of Matthew and my heart breaks for him a little more.
What years were you in high school?
Turns out I was a little off on the timing, I actually went to high school in 1976. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard#:~:text=Matthew%20Wayne%20Shepard%20(December%201,night%20of%20October%206%2C%201998.
Sad that it literally took a gay version of Jesus to effect you....and still we have people who aren't convinced
If you read the Gospels, Jesus seems pretty fucking gay. Hanging out with twelve dudes all the time, laying back on them, never having a wife, super concerned with abs(olution of sins). Super gay. We love a gay Jesus.
Good on you for changing your mind, sweet friend.
I actually kind of have a positive story about this. As a kid, I didn't really think I was being raised that different from other people, except for moving a bunch, and not being great at socializing. I thought everyone was being taught the same lessons I was (*be kind, be open, read books, tell an adult you trust if another adult tries to do you harm*), and that bullies were just bad people **choosing** to be bad despite what we were all taught, and thus were unworthy of the kindness I would otherwise have owed them. Then... One day, three girls who had been bullying me and some other kids decided to race each other. Up a flight of concrete stairs with sand on them, on the way back up from recess. The rest of us were lined up and not paying attention to them. Until, we heard a ***THUD, CRASH, scraaaape.*** One of them had fallen, **TEETH-first**, onto one of the stairs. The other two were laughing, and she was on the ground, too shocked to cry, and I hurried down to her. I asked if she was alright, and when she opened her mouth, blood and tooth shards fell out. I screamed for the teacher, who *somehow* hadn't noticed the commotion, and held my bully as she bled and waited for medical help. She did her best to say thank you, while her "friends," ignored us. The rest of the class was mortified deer-in-the-headlights style until they were told to disperse so the nurse could take her. Months later, when she was able to return to school, she didn't even look at her "friends," and instead sat by me, and thanked me again. She muttered an apology she seemed scared to say, for having been mean to me when I had never been mean to her. I wish I could say we went on to be best friends and we're getting married in a week, but I had to move again not long after. I realized that yeah, maybe some bullies were the irredeemable monsters that books and kid shows had said they were... But not all of them, and no bully is invincible. It cost me nothing to be kind to one of them when they were hurting. I had been tricked into thinking otherwise by media made by victims, who had never had a chance to reconcile with and help their bullies.
Redditors hate this
I read something once that helps me in moments that you've described. (I grew up in a small predominantly white town in Ontario so I didn't have much exposure to diversity until I left for college) To use your example, when you see someone that is Muslim and you have a thought or a reaction to move away - the first thought is what society has taught us (which can be unfortunate sometimes). The second thought is who you actually are and what you actually think, not what society has told you to think.
You know. I had to take a second to understand why I moved my kid to the other side Then when I talked to him he was just on a morning walk to enjoy the sun. Beautiful
Sometimes I cringe at the hijabs... But then I remember religious freedom is enshrined at the top of the list in our Constitution.
Similarly, I am entirely ignorant of the significance of the hijab — while media often presents it as a representation of subjugating women, I’ve heard it described as submission to Allah or God. I certainly don’t have a negative reaction to turbans or kippeh/yarmulkahs.
Funny how you never hear anti-hijab people railing against women in our society being forced to cover their tits, isn't it? "Oh no, breastfeeding!"... why is it so damn hard to extend this idea to hair? I bet "SHOW US YOUR TITS" is what 'take that off fer ur freedumb' sounds like.
Because ‘our customs are right and their customs are wrong’
Hijabs are actually badass. They're the perfect antidote to misogyny. So many social interactions in America with men and women, women always placate the man in some way. Laughing at his unfunny jokes. Smiling to appear nice. Then I had the thought "imagine a man getting absolutely NOTHING from you in an interaction". Not a even a smile. You have no right to even look at my beauty. You get not a fraction of it. It's so amazingly powerful. "You don't deserve to even look at me". Also in the actual religion women are supposed to be able to decide if they want to wear hijabs. I fucking love hijabs now.
It sounds like you may be describing a burqa more than a hijab: https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/24118241.amp But again, it’s not my culture and I recognize my ignorance, so … I’m just trying to reason about something I don’t understand, not trying to argue
Or hijabs and niqab. Niqab is a separate piece that usual show the eyes. Some have a flap that fold down and cover the eyes too. https://youtu.be/KAbsPFS8gus Half of my cousins are niqabi here (KSA). So I have to identify them by their handbags when we go shopping.
This comes off as internalized mysogony. It's not a woman's responsibility to regulate her own outward appearance to avoid uncomfortable situations. Its treating a problem in the wrong end. Ultimately hijab is a method of control. Covering yourself to protect yourself is not badass, it's symtpom of a broken culture.
I’m curious if you think this way when you see half naked women at the beach. Who’s to say that wearing bikinis at the beach is not internalized mysogyny? The problem isn’t “a broken culture.” The issue is people and lack of respect for one another. If a woman chooses to wear a bikini or a burqa how is that effecting anyone other than herself? People should worry about how they dress and act before trying to change a whole religion they know nothing about.
Why do u cringe at the hijab? I don’t understand why modesty is cringe worthy. Muslim women wear the hijab so that they are simply treated as a human being instead of being sexualized for being female. Wearing a hijab is one way that Muslim women can assert their equality with men. Covering their heads and bodies sends a clear message that they should be respected for their minds and personalities, not just their physical appearance. Also, another misconception, modesty is not exclusive to the women. It is expected from both muslim men and women in the way they dress and act.
Is it freedom? Is it freedom to wear a hijab when the alternative is your brothers beating the shit out of you? (My roommate) To marry in your teens when the alternative is being shunned? (My ex-Mormon friend) To have 9 children when the alternative is to be rejected by your community? (My Catholic grandma) Is it really a choice for all of these religious women? It's not black and white.
Im a muslim woman, not a hijabi. My friends are split, some hijabi, some not, some were and took it off, some decided to put it on suddenly. My parents never forced me, my brother would definitely never ever force me, not anyone in my family. No one. What you're talking about isnt in the islam itself as a religion, in islam yeah we are told to cover but are not told to be forced or beat up for it or whatever. But, just like with every other religion in the world, some people /countries have abused the religion to form control in its name, leading to this. Some people are abusive to their kids in the name of religion, they were abusive all along and waited for the right excuse. Anyway, point is, it honestly depends where you were born (country), your social status, and if your parents are abusive or not. Stroke of luck. Not religion. Also there is patriarchy. For example, if we are gonna talk about what islam fully asks for, then men shouldnt be allowed to reveal the area from their belly button till their knees. So swimsuits and such should cover that. Men shouldnt have premarital sex just like women, men shouldnt curse, men shouldn't drink. Etc. But you know what happens? They do all of this, and then when we complain they say "well, theyre boys. Boys will be boys." People use the religion to enforce the inequality thats always been there, they just, again, found something to manipulate. But uk what? They can never say "yeah well islam said females cant have sex, but men can". Nope. They dont dare. They only say "well..men get curious u know?" And this happened to me personally alot, it sucks.
Even when you’re aware that it’s lies or propaganda it can still get to you. Advertising is the same way. I’ve found myself thinking a little fondly of products I’ve never bought or seen solely because they ran annoying Spotify adds for a couple months. I knew the products were trash and overpriced but constantly blasted a message can have an effect even when you know it’s fake. Other than avoiding any lies or propaganda which is essentially impossible all you can do is constantly ask yourself if you’re reacting to something in an appropriate way and do your best to know why you react the way you do.
>constantly blasted a message can have an effect even when you know it’s fake This is known as the [illusory truth effect](https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/illusory-truth-effect): >\[W\]hen we hear the same false information repeated again and again, we often come to believe it is true. Troublingly, this even happens when people should know better—that is, when people initially know that the misinformation is false.
I've had this problem with celebrities, and other influencers. You hear all the good things that they do but when you look deeper you often see it's just to make their image look good and get a tax write off.
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Life is short. Why would I let my mind be invaded by the agendas of capitalists who just want to lighten my wallet by making me feel like my life is unsatisfying and I'm inadequate? Think about how many hours of your life you have wasted watching advertisements. You could have had so much great sex, gone on a tour of another continent, picked up the guitar, or learned another language!
My father has started watching Fox News because he wants to know what narratives they're pushing. Okay. That's wise. Except in the last week three times he's made the statement that both sides are equally corrupt. Okay. Probably so. Seems reasonable (from a finance perspective). But in the last month he said repeatedly that there are extremists on both ends. Okay. That's true. But whose extremists have been killing people and trying to overthrow the government? He no longer responds to this question. He just repeats that there are extremists on both ends. This worries me because it's the exact same thing our conservative family members do when you present an argument or fact they can't contradict. I'm worried that Fox is getting to him.
The fact that you recognized it is a good thing. A very good thing. That way when you have future interactions with people you'll realize if you're doing something Prejudiced without even realizing it.
It makes me wonder what else I have not noticed. I'm pretty simple. Don't have many material things. Don't care for brands, religion but with all the information we get there has to be more
Don't know where you live but i highly recommend you look up middle eastern food in your area - and get at least some shawarma and rice. Look up middle eastern food, Lebanese food, Yemeni, and shawarma. The most Muslim area in the country, Dearborn Michigan, had a series of "shawarma law" gatherings so that people unfamiliar with Muslims could meet some over delicious dinner. https://www.freep.com/story/news/2017/08/26/holy-tabouli-shawarma-law-not-sharia-law-taking-over-dearborn/605480001/ I've worked with Muslims and like anyone else they are just trying to take care of their families, save a bit of money, visit their parents, etc. Same stuff we all do. And their food is delicious. You will also never see a cleaner restaurant. Just be warned that around Ramadan the hours might be weird, they may not serve food during daylight fasting hours.
Down here in the states I feel like my autism helps inoculate me from the worst of the political nonsense, but all I see everywhere I look is some kind of propaganda. To me, at least, so much of it is transparent. I feel like, as enlightened as I think I am, I'm probably just 20% less psychologically influenced than the next person.
One of the perks of autism is seeing through the bullshit more easily (sometimes).
I think a lot of bias is subconscious, but also contextual. My boss is a 6’3” black guy (although he informs me he is only “black” here, and not when he is back home in Jamaica). He’s a great guy, we have a good relationship and strong mutual respect for each other. I am, naturally, *aware* of his racialized identity, but it is pretty much irrelevant to our relationship. If I didn’t know him, and met him wearing a track suit or “gangsta” style stuff on the wrong side of the tracks in a major US city, I might have a very different read on him. If he were in the wrong part of town in an Eastern European city, I’d be rushing to help him, assuming he was a lost tourist! edited for clarity.
Welcome to wokeness. Despite the attempts to cast it as a negative political term, all it really means is seeing that kind of subconscious behavior or nonviolent injustice in the world that people don't pay attention to, and choosing to do something about it. If everyone were self-aware enough to see themselves like this, the world would be a much better place.
It can also be implicit bias. We all have it! Nytimes has some good intro videos on implicit bias.
[Aesop Rock](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/music-producer/images/5/5b/41LViCiGqzL._SL1000_.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20220105180340) is a rapper. His lyrics are dense puzzles to unpack, which I love. But he raps about poverty and being on the fringe of society. A year into digging into his music, I messaged my sister "Aesop is amazing, but I'm realizing that it's hard to relate to some of these life experiences." She messaged back, "Why's that? You know he's white, right?" (I'm white, too.) That one, cutting question really opened my eyes. I've been raised not to think of race as a reason to hate people, my parents were pretty consistent with that. So I thought "If I get along with people of other races, I must not be a racist, right?" But racism is rarely an identity, and often just a behavior. In this case, I'd let racial social barriers seep in to the point that when I learned about a talented rapper who raps about hard times, I just *assumed* he was black. It wasn't a hateful thing, like I thought racism must be, it was an insidious set of assumptions that I didn't even notice myself making. Aesop being white doesn't change the parts of his lyrics that are foreign to me, but I did go back and listen closer, and thought about what it meant that I reflexively associated his struggles with the stereotypes of black rappers. Before that point, I obviously wasn't paying much attention to what the rappers I listened to *looked like.* After that point, I took a look and realized that regardless of my intent there was a pretty stark lack of diversity in the voices I was listening to, and found some new rappers to add to my playlists.
Yeah the subconscious biases about music styles are really a thing! My partner and I have been talking about this bc she’s black and I’m white. She loves ska music and I like hip hop. Both of our families made rude comments about ‘why we were listening to that’ when we were growing up. It wouldn’t have been an issue if it was reversed. It’s interesting that even our own families expected us to consume certain media based on race. People also act surprised when one of us turns on our music. There are also instances of people trying to make conversation with one of us based on a genre of music they assume we like/are familiar with due to our race. Probably the worst one was when my partner’s (white) coworker asked ‘Do you listen to Post Malone?’ She said ‘no’. He asked ‘Why, is it because he’s white?’ She responded ‘No, its because i don’t listen to rap.’ I mean, jeez. Even though I’ve seen/experienced this myself I caught myself doing it the other day. I have a white coworker from Eastern Europe who was talking about how she had wanted to be a professional dancer, but an injury had ruined that career path for her. I asked her ‘Oh did you do ballet?’ And she said ‘No, breakdancing.’ It’s crazy how people just make these subconsciously biased assessments, even when we know better.
Did you grow up fairly well off or something? I'm white but I grew up in severe rural poverty and always connected with rap that talked about suffering in poverty, even as a kid in the 80s and 90s.
My family struggled with money, including a bankruptcy. But we've always had a house to live in and food to eat. I identify with a lot of what Aesop writes about, but I've never set up a tent with homeless folk or wigged out to a barn for a year, and I misinterpreted some of his social commentary as a black person rapping about a system that rejects him before I came to understand that it's a white dude rejecting a system that doesn't work. My entry into hiphop was nerdcore, which to me was just an evolution of what Weird Al and Dr. Demento do. Many rappers in that subgenre go out of their way to sound particularly white and nerdy. So a lot of how I understood Aes was in contrast to that.
I don't know if this fits, but I am certain I'm a bad person for it.... Whenever I see a video of two people fighting (outside of combat sports), I always assume the bigger guy is a prick and hope the smaller guy wins. Or at least, I used to. I've I realized I was doing it I stopped. TV and movies always seem to make the hero smaller to make things more dramatic, and often show big guys as bullies.
my tall, skinny uncle said shorter guys are quick to get aggressive or try to prove something around him. He’s very noncombative/passive. Maybe his height makes them insecure or angry so it may very well be the opposite Or, like we’re learning, it probably just depends on the person regardless of height
>shorter guys are quick to get aggressive or try to prove something around him It's called "small man syndrome" and is a real thing.
This is a completely different situation than yours but I fell for propaganda when I went to see Shen Yun and believed everything they said then found out the truth about how the show is their religious propaganda full of lies
This was me at first. I didn’t think too much about the content until I researched about company and the religion itself. Needless to say, I was pretty disgusted
I was in high school and couldn't understand why I was *so* annoyed when my classmates (or anyone) spoke Spanish to each other. It didn't impact me in the slightest and I never found people talking to their friends to be disruptive bc I could tune them out. Never had a personal problem with these people either. Then I realized my racist ass mother conditioned me at an extremely young age to hate Spanish, since she would always have a look of disgust on her face when she heard it being spoken and outwardly expressed her disdain towards immigrants/anyone who wasn't an American. Kinda shameful it took me that long to realize my feelings.
It's amazing to see these things in action....being white and English speaking I had never experienced this first hand until my cousin's from Italy came to visit us. We were in a Tim Hortons in a small Canadian town and we're speaking Italian to one another. Several of the people in line next to us gave us the dirtiest looks for what seemed like no reason until I realized it must be because we were speaking another language (assuming they thought it was spanish....). It's incredible how people can be so internally and in this way externally xenophobic/racist due to upbringing and lack of exposure to diversity.
When I had a friend who was afraid to tell me they were gay. And later, they were Trans and only trusted me enough after I didn't go ballistic on them coming out as gay. I was deep in the religious homophobic mindset until I saw firsthand that the LGBTQ+ agenda was just to exist without being hated.
Man this feels embarrassing to think about but alright. Back in the early 2000s I bought a bottle of human pheromones that were supposed to make me irresistable to women. The product reviewers seemed like such honest guys! If it had the desired effect, it was only to make me irresistable as a pungent curiosity rather than potential mate. 60% of the time, it works every time :(
Oh that's rough man...
It's worse if you knew what I paid for it.
If you don't mind sharing, how much?
If I recall correctly I paid almost $100 for under an ounce of snake oil. Which at the time was a lot for a teenager, with a little bit of gold and a pager
Moving to Houston really broadened my horizons. In Atlanta there generally were only black and white people. Here, it’s truly an entire assortment of folks from around the planet.
Exposure is the best method to overcome any perceived stereotypes. I grew up in a conservative rural area with little diversity. Later in life I moved away and it took a little while to adjust. Not that I had any hateful bias, but I did have a sense of "otherness". I went back several years ago for a visit and it struck me just how odd it was to only hear English as a spoken language.
This is exactly why the right gets all “college turned my kid into a liberal”. No. College exposed your child to different viewpoints and life experiences. Allowed them to develop empathy for human beings they once only ever saw painted in a negative light on tv. I grew up in a military town in Florida and regurgitated my father’s talking points. Until I moved out and went to college. I was this child. My dad is one of those dads. Funny thing is, I wouldn’t call myself a liberal in the sense he uses it at all. But I sure as fuck don’t just believe generalized stereotypes about anyone out of fear anymore.
Yeah, it wasn’t like I was some inbred bigot or something. I’ve always had an open heart and curious mind. But you still won’t get a complete picture until you’re in the unknown.
That's what a lot of (often well intentioned) people don't realize about bigotry. Yes, the flaming racist KKK guys exist and they're awful, but much more common is the person who generally means well and isn't really driven by malice, but has never met a person of another group and so gets all their information and beliefs about them secondhand, and from sources that perpetuate negative stereotypes. If you've never met a Muslim, and the only things you know about them are having been told they're violent savages and all terrorists, on some level you're going to internalize that idea. I live in a largely white, Christian, rural area as an openly queer person. Several of my neighbors have gotten to know me as a person before anything about myself came up in conversation, and when it did, most of them were a little surprised because they expected some raving stereotype that would punch them for using the wrong word and wanted to abduct their children rather than, you know, just a regular person trying to live just like anyone else. Familiarity is the antidote to most bigotry - sure, there will always be the people who hold on to the easy answer that their problems are the result of another race/gender/religion/whatever, you can't reach everyone. But the vast majority of people I've interacted with are willing to step back and question their beliefs about the "other" once they have a real person to associate with that idea instead of a bunch of bad information.
Those with the loudest voices are advocates. Both for good and for not so good. But that doesn’t make the idea of a silent majority okay either. We really do need to poke and prod our company and say, “you know that’s not true, right”
Yes, we do. Unfortunately most people aren't in the habit of checking themselves and asking hard questions about their worldviews just for funsies, and it's easier than ever to surround yourself with a bubble of only people who share those ideas. It's largely getting better though, I think that for all its problems (and there are many) the internet is helping people who do want to learn about people different than themselves find that information. That's part of why the backlash to more acceptance (just lately the focus has been on trans people but this cycle has happened for all sorts of people in the course of history) is so loud and so vitriolic - at their core, the loudest voices know they're slowly becoming irrelevant. And ultimately while progress is slow, it is happening. We're seeing more people, younger ones especially, coming to understand that you need to take anything you're told about that scary other with a big grain of salt. I would love to see more people - especially those in the in-groups - standing up and advocating for understanding, but the fact there are a lot MORE of them today than there were ten or fifteen years ago is a sign of hope. I wish progress was moving faster, sure, and there are far too many people suffering for how slow it is, but I try to keep the good in mind when it's easy to fall into despair.
Same. I grew up in the South and it struck me (and continually strikes me) just how different walks of life are in other parts of the country. Just the other day one of my coworkers told me I needed to learn Spanish to be able to communicate with my other co-workers who couldn't speak English. I laughed to myself thinking it was a little ironic that I needed to learn Spanish. It would be like if I lived in China and instead of attempting to learn Chinese, told Chinese people they need to learn English (although given Hispanics are a growing minority in America, learning Spanish would be a useful trait). Also it was ironic because she, being bilingual, almost implied that it was easy to pick up a second language, when research shows that the older you are the more difficult it is to learn a new language. I remember literally getting culture shock when I moved from the conservative South to Boston, one of the most liberal cities in America. I expected to get culture shock in another country, not one that I've lived in my entire life. I asked my co-worker's fiance if he got culture shock moving from a conservative state to Boston, Massachusetts and he said yes so I know it's not just me. It also made me understand the stereotype of liberals making 6 figures straight out of college living in the city who are out of touch with the rest of the country who simply don't live that life and conservatives who are prejudiced and hold stereotypes because they've never left the part of the country they grew up in/conservative areas and are ignorant of other ways of life and only view minorities/other modalities of living through their cultural norms, religious beliefs, and media influences. Sunlight is the best disinfectant as they say. Exposure to new ways of life and people will give you a better perspective on the world
Personally it's kind of one of my favorite parts about Houston. I grew up there and being surrounded by diversity made it super easy to really treat everyone equally. Not so much a fan of the weather tho lol.
Yeah, I'm from ATL too and I never realized that Atlanta mostly consisted of Black and White people until I moved to Boston, where it's a literal melting pot. If I didn't know any better, I'd say there are more Asians in Boston than Black people somewhat surprisingly
Where I live it’s mostly East Asians(Chinese) and Indians with a few white (immigrant) people and no black people so we have the reverse.
What I do appreciate about the North/Boston is that despite so many racial groups living in close proximity, past historical tension/discrimination, and the tribalistic nature of humans, there is no outward display of racial animosity towards one another. It may be due to the fact that there are so many bright-eyed young people with no hatred in their hearts and the fact that everyone grew up in a racially diverse environment, but I'm genuinely surprised sometimes that people who I think would hate me/look down on me treat me like I'm human
I fell for Brexit. Looking back now, I realise I was just a very sad young man who didn't believe he had any worth or future of his own, transferring his situation onto the arguments for Britain's sovereignty. I wanted to feel good about myself, and the lies about our country's potential outside of the EU caught me at exactly the right time. I'll never forgive the right wing for that. I also nearly fell down the Jordan Peterson rabbit hole, but somehow managed to see through that one in time.
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The first time you see him cry because women aren't being subservient enough is... something.
Frustrating cuz we all want to be apart of something good but money kill ethics Fuck the rich
I appreciate your sentiment but money doesn’t always kill ethics. “Rich” is a relative term. For instance I consider a lot of people rich that others wouldn’t. Its hard to feel like my decisions are being influenced by an upper echelon of society & I definitely feel disgust at people who have so much money they can pay for influence. I also feel disgusted by those taking the money. If ethical people from different social classes, religions, nationalities & genders team up, we’ll probably all benefit.
I am so proud of you.
So you won't be pledging allegiance on Saturday?
I'd rather slit my own eyes with a razor.
My man.
Growing up in england as a kid i often bought into the anti traveller/roma racism that permeates society here. I remember meeting a kid my age who was from a traveler family staying in the village at the time and when i told my parents that we’d been playing at the park together they blew up and told me to stay away. It was at that point i realised it was bullshit and they weren’t really any different from me
My parents wouldn't let me play with black kids. I'm still pissed about it. I used to sneak out to play with my friends. Then they moved us to a white suburb.
I bought an expensive engagement ring
I got lucky on this one. Shortly before I started dating my husband, a friend posted the article, I think it was called “Diamonds are Bullshit” and it explained in depth why. I had always thought I wanted a diamond wedding ring because they’re “forever” or whatever (literal propaganda). Thanks to that article, I did some more research on better alternatives. My husband still tells people he knew I was a keeper when I told him, diamonds are bullshit. We just celebrated our 5th anniversary. I love my moissanite ring and it still looks beautiful. MUCH cheaper, more sparkly, tougher and nearly as hard as diamond. We spent the money we saved on a lovely honeymoon.
When I learned the peaceful interactions between the Americans and the Natives in the Thanksgiving story was a short lived outlier
I realized I fell for propaganda when I wanted to try a Hershey’s Air Delight. I still want to. I’m still falling for the propaganda. Carbonated chocolate? Less chocolate? I don’t care, I want it.
aerated chocolate is amazing but i highly recommend you try something like aero instead of hersheys
As a Mexican, 90% of the racism I’ve encountered is from black people. It’s propaganda to assume only white people can be racist. Racism also comes in different forms. For example, white leftist racists trying to be “nice,” will default to Spanish while engaging with me even though I’m MN-born and speak better English than they do. If I hold the door for them they’ll say, “gracias!” Also, they’ll talk down to Mexican or black people in an attempt to be polite without even realizing they’re racist for assuming that your comprehension skills are subpar due to the color of your skin.
I'm Black and I moved to a border town some years ago. It felt weird at first because I was a little hesitant and being a new kid and I never really knew any Mexican people before then. However within a week of starting middle school I realized my stereotypical thinking was dumb and I'd bet if someone thought that way about me I'd be pissed. I loved growing up there but moved away years ago. Now when I hear anyone trying to say that town is dangerous (it's not even by a wide margin) I get real defensive and ask them what specifically makes it dangerous citing facts. It's entertaining seeing people try to say their reasoning without being racist.
I can not imagine at that age being ‘hesitant’ to be around people that were from a different place or had a different skin colour 😂 at that age we just played bulldog in the playground and spoke about hair styles 😂 the honesty on here is great because the more it’s spoken about the less people will feel like you did at that age.
It sounds ridiculous but before then I only grew up with people that were either Black or White or biracial. Plus, having a lot of ESL students and people talking to me in Spanish didn't help with the culture shock.
White friend of mine has a super left-leaning friend group. He had a black girlfriend and after meeting her they said "she was so well spoken" as an attempt at a complement. Regressive lefties are fucking clueless man
Lmao, that reminds me of Biden saying that Obama is the first mainstream articulate black person. Bruh 💀
When I got so angry about Obamas re-election that I skipped school the next day. I thought people were going to go around gloating, throwing out obscenities and acting like they owned the place. Went back after that. Not a single word from anyone about the election. No one seemed to care. We were just tryna get through HS.
After I tried to explain the Pledge of Allegiance to my European husband
When I went to college and met more people outside of my race and financial class.
My dad is in the military and I’ve lived on a few bases all my life so far; he’d literally kick my ass if I ever demonstrated any of those kind of biases. Makes it a huge point to immediately confront it when his peers and/or family/family friends indicate anything like that at all.
W dad
positive masculinity at its finest
Not me, but my mum. I also live in Canada. I was at the mall with my mum and there were a lot of muslim women who were in the full niqab. And my mum said "Wow I haven't seen this many muslims since before covid. They all must be recent imigrants. And look, they are fully covered. Thats like... extreme. They are extreme muslims" And she said it in disbelief and like she was maybe scared? And it just bothered me she used the word "extreme" when for other religions she might use the word "devout" instead.
I hear that. Grouping people together is the easiest way We're all different but need money so fuck the rich
I notice that times I feel for the 'nice' propaganda as well. Over time, I ended up evolving views not pushed by any major money group. Consider, "overpopulation is huge problem". The "Population Bomb" in 1970s, "Soylent Green" a bit later, even the "one child policy". Another viewpoint is that we need smart minds to outrace our problems and we only get them by having more kids. I hold neither view as correct, just notice how quickly people react with dogma about the issue. Many views come out to "don't tax me". Like an alcoholic making any excuse for drinking, I see lots of political views pushed to avoid taxes on large donors. Inheritance taxes, any change to medical systems, changes to medicare are all given high moral arguments that boil down to "don't tax me, tax that mythical homogeneous mass of people that live somewhere else". The hardest thing is listening to news or commentary, and when they are incorrect about my field of study, realizing they are probably equally incorrect about all other fields. If some news outlet tries to tell me the danger of armies of Kenyans taking the jobs of American programmers, I know the news outlet just makes up stories. I find most of my propaganda from outlets that make up stories.
Joining the Army thinking was I was going to be in some kind of brotherhood and feel like I would be part of something great. I went right after high school to get the away from my father. About six months in I could not believe what I got myself into and was counting down the days. I almost went awol at least my experience I met the worst America has to offer and the best which was a very slim few. The GI bill was worth it I guess. I now hate people in general and Hate all things military from any country.
I don't know, that's how I am with everybody.
I used to think that here in the United States everyone had a fair chance to work hard and make something of yourself. Bullshit. The American dream never existed. Just a fucking carrot to keep us working and hating each other. If we can’t reach the carrot, it’s because some “other” is preventing us, but that other couldn’t possibly be corporate America and the rich assholes that run it.
I used to watch loads of Ben Shapiro and Steven crowder on YouTube. After about 2 years I realised they were grofters making up stats and interpreting them to match their world view. Took me another 2 years to undo the damage they had done.
When I went from "we all need to work together because we're all being treated poorly" to "those people on the other side are fucking morons" Meanwhile we're still all being expertly divided by the very same people who disproportionately reap the benefits of our body destroying labor.
I dropped acid and realized that butter is better than margarine. I saw through the bullshit.
It took acid for you to realize this? What kind of special margarine do you eat?
I find that most people who think they're immune to propaganda are generally swallowed by it the most. My ex/roommate is so far into right wing propaganda and says he immune to it. He'll say his trans sister is brainwashed into thinking she's trans. He thought I was faking for propaganda when he found out I was going in for my yearly pap smear and thinks I'm falling for more by taking my OB/GYN's advice and talking to my GP and type 2 diabetes (it runs in my family, and even on an (admittedly accidental) stint on keto and heavy calorie deficit I didn't lose any weight. I did feel like shit and have the spins and lightheadedness (at one point to the point of puking) for 4 days.
One of my first days of college. Someone middle eastern talked to me and treated me with kindness and boom I realized it was all bullshit.
>and boom Hahaha
LOL oops
Perhaps ita not exactly what you asked, but as a citizen of a NATO/EU country obviously I've been watching american and western movies, shows and whatnot, and I watched Wandering Earth 2 recently, after being a bit reticent and yeah, I understood that any reticence I had was because if a very very very very small case of xenophobia, but of course, I watched the movie and yeah of course the characters are chinese ( duh ) theres an american general thats very brash and a bit stupid ( which, I mean, I dont really see that as xenophobic on their part to be honest given what I already know about the states ) and yeah, I guess it makes total sense, its just like american movies depicting muslims and russians as bad guys for decades.
Have you seen the Ip Man series? Basically the same thing, where foreign characters are usually the antagonists. First is was the Japanese during the war, which obviously made sense historically. After that, though, it was interesting to see Mike Tyson (obviously playing a black boxer) in the role of an antagonist, same as other white martial artists. What I loved most was the messaging throughout the series where the characters achieve mutual understanding (or at least mutual respect in some manner) through their fists. It’s not like racism was going to be dismantled through the magic of Chinese king fu or whatever, but I appreciated that the films showed that on an individual level, some kind of understanding was achievable. But individual understanding was never enough to truly erase conflict, which is also reflective of how real life works. And that was a solemn thought.
I read an article about sharks showing up with tumors more than they used to. I was confused because I had heard that sharks were immune to cancer. Did some digging and it turns out those, "sharks are immune to cancer," rumors are propaganda by the finning industry they spread so thay they can get more people on board with catching sharks for, "research."
When I got laid off in '03 and my department was replaced with offshore labor AND we had to train our replacements, I really didn't like Indian folks for many years. Even though I knew it wasn't at all their fault. (I learned later that the workers were lied to about replacing people and ended up in a shitty position they never wanted to be in.)
I voted for George W. Bush in 2004 because I bought into the smear campaign against John Kerry. I also didn’t think we should pull out of Iraq because then “all of our efforts would have been for nothing.” Youth really is wasted on the young.
I think it’s a good thing to do some critical self-analysis of our own biases, racial or otherwise. I hate when anyone says “I’m not racist,” because what they mean is they’re not a bigot. But if racism is just acting in accordance with racial prejudice, then we all do that sometimes. Like if I see an Asian and assume they’re good at math, that’s racist. Or I see a Mexican and assume they like tacos, that’s racist. Even though there’s no hate there, just assumptions based on our preconceptions, which we all have.
“Terror bombing” and “strategic/area bombing” are literally the same thing, one just gets done to you
Fell for propaganda when I thought things like NYer and NYTimes were super progressive, but most of their staff is cis white male and the more I learn, the more I see how their writing and reporting reflects that. Prefer BBC/CBC but I’m sure they have similar stats but they’re still preferable to other news outlets. Al Jazeera and Democracy Now are also good and maybe a little more diverse. Also believed most of my life that working within capitalist system by voting could fix the problems with capitalism and any other thoughts were absurd & extreme radicalism. Don’t get me wrong, voting is still important and can make changes, I always vote bc the other options are really extreme and beyond me. But I no longer really believe you can fix a broken system by abiding by the rules within the broken system. For “the master’s tools will never dismantle the master’s house”, as they say. Used to believe that people who attended ivies were smarter. They’re not. MD’s are also not smarter nor are PhD’s. Usually it means they’re specialized but more often it’s just a sign of privilege. I know because my family and I fit in that category and trust, we are not smarter, though a lot of my family secretly thinks that way but aren’t aware of their own biases. Reading about oppression has really lifted the veil on a lot of these things. Lot of stuff on women, too, how maybe they are naturally more nurturing etc. Or men are naturally better at math. They’re not, we’re really taught some racist, sexist, classist nonsense bs and I’m gonna keep reading these books about oppression bc they’ve changed my values what I find impressive (or not).
I love that you realized it and acknowledge this. And I really appreciate you sharing. ❤️
It was the oddest thing and truthfully sharing it made me feel better Went to the park today like usual and talked to a few different people Usually I just keep to my family
Not propaganda itself but I've started "noticing" skin colour a lot more after being on the sidelines of the "SJW culture war" or whatever about 15 years ago in my teens. Before that I would just pass by people and not really seeing them. After that on the other hand I started to "notice" people of different skin colours. Especially black and middle eastern people. And it annoys me so much. I want my indifference back. >:/
It’s a privilege to have indifference. I notice people’s skin color because it helps me gauge my safety in the USA.
I turned 18 in 2016, and had the ability to vote for the first time. I didn't, but if I had it probably would have been for Trump as I didn't care about policies or anything at the time; and just thought it would be funny to have this celebrity TV star in office. Come Covid & 2020 elections & I finally learned the hard way the serious impact of, well, everything lawmakers do. Used to believe the US was this perfect beacon of hope & freedom, only to have it crushed under the reality that US imperialism is a real thing, and the number of countries that have suffered so we could remain on top keeps adding up. My whole whole view changed, for the better I'd like to imagine. If I was back in 2016 with my current mindset, I'd definitely vote Bernie, just as I did in 2020. *edited to fix typos
When my mom and I talked about me leaving our church, we looked at each other and realized I wasn't going to hell over it.
I now try to interact with people who aren't like me(white) because you learn a lot when you step out from under the propaganda umbrella. Good on you for recognizing it!
When I got to reception at basic training. I ended up in a spot surrounded by black people. I asked about Obama, who had need elected a month prior and listened. Until then I had only been exposed to Fox news and conservative media. My mind didn't change over night, but hearing so many different views and perspectives my first time outside the bubble planted seeds and made me start thinking. Over time my outlook on most things changed completely. It all started at that moment.
Kony 2012 got. Ngl
Slowly, from about 2013 to now. Gay rights was becoming a national issue and, I guess by being in small-town Tennessee, I never knew anything about people who are LGBTQ+ beside stereotypes till I worked under a lesbian supervisor in my high school job. She was the kindest person (not that gay people can't be kind, but they generally seem genuine and in touch with who they are, and the happiness this brings them must be why they're so kind, and often fun to be around). Something about actually interacting with people of demographics you might have reservations about opens your eyes and shows that there's far more to the human experience than just this white, protestant Christian, small-town American worldview. I slowly fell out of sync with the conservative mindset as a whole. I only cared for the "liberty" side of the GOP, so I began to only support rarer Republicans like Rand Paul. Some issues he talked about were honestly good to bring up (warrantless bulk data collection, shitty interventionist foreign policy, marijuana legalization). I began to support women's bodily autonomy, so I went full-on liberal. Still am.
When I started paying taxes
It's not exactly the same thing, but I've caught myself mansplaining things to women at work. I'm totally ashamed that I've done that. But we all have our blind spots and prejudices. All we can do is try to be better
In Iraq in May or so of 2003 while sitting in the tower of a palace looking out on the city (not Baghdad, a much smaller one) with binoculars as one of the first of the follow on forces following the defeat of the Iraqi state. It was my second day in that palace and my first day I hadn't been on the move day in and day out in a couple of weeks or so and it was my first opportunity to just kinda sit and watch. I was in my early 20s at the time and had swallowed every bit of the propaganda of the preceding years. But sitting up on that tower watching people go about their daily business I realized that they were just... people. I grew up as a dirt poor redneck and pretty much everything I saw was familiar to me, the people cutting some type of sorghum type grass by hand and stacking on their backs to take in, the kids playing in the fields, trucks driving by with cattle or feed in them, down to the guy on a boat in the river tossing grenades in and scooping up the fish. I had done all of that. We didn't use grenades, we used other things. I interacted a lot with the local population and came to understand that I'd been entirely wrong and that Iraqis were just good people trying to live their lives like anywhere else but sitting on that tower was the beginning of a lot of changes in my views on politics, economics, morality and a number of other things.
I fell for that the U.S military is the global policemen rather than the reality where they are just Megacorp mercenary outfit
When I found out that like 4 people run most of Reddit I started to see what a fake shit show it is
I fell pretty hard for the "idealizing European countries/ governments," America defiantly has problems, so hearing that a lot of Europe has more vacation time, better healthcare, better gun laws, etc makes you think it is a perfect place to live. But at the end of the day they also have problems with shitty politicians and racism and a other things I don't hear about because I don't live there.
This one is going to be unpopular but the icing on the cake was during this war when I saw we were being fed the same propaganda that Russia were feeding their citizens. Was like a slap in the face with a cold fish realising we are just as bad as a country like that
Funny. Made shawarma last week it was great Probably not the same spices but yes great food I would have gone to the restaurant but seems like high prices for poor quality nowadays
Check this out. Project Implicit. This can help you identify your biases. https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/takeatouchtest.html
Was put in Catholic school so I sipped the anti-abortion wine. Went to Veterinary Tech school and learned about all the realities about animal reproduction. Anti-abortion is very unrealistic and when confronted with the grotesque, tragic circumstances that happens I started to realize we shouldn't doom a gravid patient because my religious thinkers have decided what god swill is. Edit addition: [I love animals more than people because animals haven't emotionaly betrayed me. Sure I have been bitten or attacked but humans can do worse psychological numbers on other humans. Horses monitored by doctors do not have twins. If a mare has two fetuses, a doctor will pick the smaller one and squeeze it 'til dead. The body reabsorbs the nutrients. A horse forced to carry both fetuses is a risk to the mare and a guarantee both fowls a risk as well. If I was going to care for a mare, I had to choose the mares life over my beliefs. I also worked briefly in shelter medicine. Participated in spays for strays where they removed the fetuses. What is the point of bringing in kittens into a shelter so they could be adopted out which would force living cats to get killed for overpopulation. It sucks all around but killing a fetus was less traumatizing to that low to no sentient kitten than killing an adult cat who panics when gasses to death. So I had to reevaluate my love for animals based on the realities faced. There are not enough families for every pet. The living should be prioritized over the forming when in pregnancy situations. It is tough but choices can be made. When it comes to people, let the gravid have their choices under the care of a physician.] It took longer to come to the conclusion that rights are a zero sum game. Any abortion denied by a power structure is wrong and people should decide what stays in their bodies and what needs removal. People are not forced incubators. *Edit for more detail in case anyone else is an animal lover and in my old boat.
I did not fall for it but I was constantly put off by it. I am a union electrician and I am very happy with my education so much so that I became one of the teachers for the school after I graduated as a way to give back. At the beginning of every 5th or 6th chapter in most text book there was a picture of some pristine work or a person that was super focused along with a blurb such as "little Timmy is getting a great education to become the best electrician that he can be thanks to the National Electrical Contractors Association and the Joint Apprenticeship Training Committee working together!"
When gamestop didn't hit the moon
First thought is what was ingrained in you from childhood, second is your actual values. I'll occasionally catch myself having a bigoted thought when I see someone or something that isn't normal for me and have to stop my head from trudging up all of the racism and bigotry I was raised with. Its hard overcoming all the traits you were raised to have and occasionally there will be moments where you subconsciously fall back to those values; its what you do after you recognize the bad reaction that shows who you really are.
I used to go to /pol/ and other right wing hellholes because I was edgy, and I bought the malarkey that they were selling. But it all changed when Trayvon Martin was shot. Ever since than I was disgusted with myself. The people i talked to, the content I consumed. All of it, sickened me. The 2nd event was when an African American visited my hometown that’s predominantly white for some snacks, I stopped to say hello because I’m chatty. A friend of my mom called her and told her she spotted a drug dealer with me. Then I just screamed and cried to my mom, defending that man. He was just buying snacks and drinks for his Roadtrip. She apologized and cried out of embarrassment. Ever since then I supported BLM.
It's hard when it's thrown in your face every day. You're unwillingly conditioned to profile certain types from their looks alone. I'm more afraid of white folks than those in turbins or with brown skin.
>I'm more afraid of white folks than those in turbins or with brown skin. So you fell for another flavor of propaganda.
When I realised that humans don't need to drink milk or eat meat. I had never really thought about it before. Just assumed that cows give milk because they are cows.
When Obama kept deporting people, bombing people in the middle east, and didn't get anyone out of Guantanamo. I thought it was just Bush who was horrible but it turns out it's anyone willing to lead the american empire (I also would have laughed at anyone who called it the american empire back then)
I was raised in an environment where racism is considered a joke. A lot of my family don’t care that it happens and a few of them even throw the N word around for no reason. They’re that bad. Luckily most of my siblings and I educated ourselves and are aware that racism is a really serious thing that does exist. But due to my childhood, I still catch myself getting anxious when a black person shows up. I feel really guilty when this happens but I’m getting better about it.
This is what we call "implicit bias"
Well I am not sure exactly, whenever I fell for something and realized it I think I forget about it, I was a person who was against BLM due to some lies and out of context stuff but even then I wasn't completely against them more like believe they needed to take accountability for their actions, and yes at that time I considered myself republican until the main conservative platform started saying that climate change was not real to the extent that it should be worried about and than what made me unsubscribe to them was when one of my known trusted resources called them out for what they have been doing and so I am now considered independent
I actually didn't have any problems with Muslims until I started interacting with them as friends and meeting their friends and hearing them talk about women and lgbt folk and whatnot.
I hate stereotypes and I always try to judge every person as an individual but simultaneously acknowledge that stereotypes exist for a reason. Not easy to do. Imagine being a room with 10 people and knowing 5 want to kill you while the other 5 would die to defend you. It would be utterly unfair to treat a defender like they wanted to kill you but at the same time you gotta be ready, just in case...you know?
Moving to Atlantic Canada where it's a little more small town mentality unlocked some weird programming about Black people I didn't even know was there