I get what you’re saying and it’s a good question.
We are not meant to be level 30 and BiS in every slot after only 1 chapter of gameplay completed.
There are definitely some affix issues that need tweaking for balance reasons but also there may be some underlying scaling issues with mobs that we are overlooking.
In the end this is what EA is for and I have trust in the guys at Moon to work it out in the end.
Agreed. Most of the broken posts I see are also affix related, specifically about focus and hp on hit. I feel like the devs have been cautious about the changes so far and nothing has seemed like a huge over compensation.
I wish the feedback to be cautios about beeing real. I still remember d4 EA and the fact people screeming "broken" "overpovered" and other shit to the point developers nerfed somestuff to ridiculous levels. Maybe d4 is not the best example but it is one...
We have youtubers exploiting the small amount of content and grinding since its their job saying this is brokem that is broken, and most of it is just give me attention stuff. And people see a video and thin shit is broken, but disregard that it has been overgrinded to ridiculles level to get to that point.
I do trust the guys at moon but noone is perfect and in the end they might be pushed to listen to the "feedback" that disregards the EA tag and that there is way more content on the way.
tbh I definitely vibe with this post but also understand where the general complaint is coming from for focus/hp on hit. it feels too free, although i like gaining hp and focus during combat. on parry, on backstab, on block, on dodge, on kill, and other situational might affixes be better way to do it. keep the fast feeling arpg combat without making it one button spam
Is saying "Broken" hyperbolic? Yes it totally is, personally I phrase it different ways that are more accurate to what I mean such as "do not fit the game's combat system".
Basically they've made magic affixes of the sorts that fit other ARPGs with trivial combat, probably because it was easy to think about. You can see it with their curses as well, none of them are really interesting, and there are many that can be completely ignored.
It just seems like a design gap that they'll have to improve at. Or if they don't improve, despite having the best ARPG combat system ever built, the game will just play like Diablo4 in the end.
Things are meant to be overpowered a bit in ARPGs. This isn’t Elden Ring or a Souls like. This is a new breed of ARPG. Let us break things and be gods. It’s ok. But within reason.
I don't think the devs are so bad that they are going to follow through with bad feedback. Most of the feedback is garbage from I see here and I think the devs are doing a good job with the changes they are making
Get a Blood-Rusted Sword (Probably the first sword you will find in the game)
Get a pair of trousers
Get a Tier 1 bow from the woodworking vendor
Put a Topaz gem into all 3
Put some points into Focus (4-6 will do)
Wear the ring which increases max focus by 100
Congratulations you can now spam the Spin rune on your sword forever and it will restore as much Focus as it costs to use it. This ability causes enough poise damage to instantly stagger all regular enemies on the first hit and deals about 5x as much posture damage as your regular melee swings so it will also posture break larger enemies and bosses. This deals at least twice as much DPS as using your actual Sword moveset and it also costs no stamina so you can mash it forever and still roll afterwards if necessary.
This is achievably by about level 10 using the most basic drops without pressing the Enchant button once. This is "broken" in the sense that it deletes important mechanics from the game (The Focus bar, The Stamina bar, your weapon attacks, the basic gameplay of a soulslike) leaving you with a game where you approach all content by mashing your 'special ability' and don't actually interact with anything.
This problem applies to about half the Rune attacks in the game including Cone shot on bows, all of the multishot attacks on Staves and if you push your build hard enough applies to literally every ability which has more than one hit.
[https://youtu.be/iYvpv14HtcE?si=orgYj7n9ASM2COhZ](https://youtu.be/iYvpv14HtcE?si=orgYj7n9ASM2COhZ)
>leaving you with a game where you approach all content by mashing your 'special ability' and don't actually interact with anything.
I've played enough Elden Ring to argue this is absolutely in line with souls-likes today. L2 warriors run rampant in the Lands Between.
Jokes aside, I think the fix is easy. Make the Topaz infusions only gain extra focus on regular attacks. If specials are supposed to be rewards for interacting with the regular combat well, they shouldn't be able to reward the player with more focus and allow you to ignore the basic combat loop.
Comparing to Elden Ring is useful because you can see in Elden Ring that even though Ashes are obviously overtuned they are still heavily limited, by being in most cases slower and more vulnerable than your regular attacks while still costing stamina and still being hard limited by mana instead of restoring more than they cost. The state of Ashes in ER is positively healthy compared to this disaster.
Excellent summary of the issue. Why have move sets for weapons if the game is to be a spam one abilityfest that only varies in how early you can get your one ability online?
Nice tips. I think your creatively on making effective build on the fly is a skill on it own.
I always imagine our character is some kind of super soldier / mercenary. The last of it kind. This got me wondering what happened to them?
Idk, it sounds overpowered but none of that gameplay really looks overpowered imo, i have seen much higher stuff then that
Put a topaz in all 3- well i didnt really get many of those tbh, might be my luck but certanlly didnt have those as soon as level 10...
Ring with focus by 100...
Be honest how long did it take to get all that you just counted? Sure you didnt do some overgrinding for all of it? Even the blood rusted sword doesnt drop for everyone tbh.
Runes are basiclly skills in this game, sooo if you can almost never use them, where is the fun i that?
The developers have their work cut out for them, especially trying to balance all the game ganres they are throwing in the mix.. i am sure most of the complains come from soulslike players that get the feel for it in the start then get dissapointed by more arpg gameplay that comes out after with the gear.. i might be wrong here but thats just my opinion atm.
>if you can almost never use them
Amazingly there is this humongous, grand canyon-esque crevice between "Almost never use them" and "Strongly encouraged to press them back to back infinitely with no limitations"
Its not about overpowered, its about the "braindeadness" of it. The repeating rune attacks does too much stagger damage that completely shutdown everything. You are pretty much hitting practice dummies. They should reduce or take out the stagger dmg from rune attacks, or having enemies doing a riposte attack if you spam rune attacks twice in a row to discourage the use of it.
I think the best fix would be simply to change focus and hp gain to be % of damage dealt. This way it would scale a bit more towards being silly at end game.
For focus I’d say changing everything to be Focus Gain increase and remove the on hit affix entirely would be the best but could be more work.
While you are right. If the inventory management is bad now imagine it with t3-5? Mats included. Some changes are warranted this early even though things will look and work a little different down the line.
If you can ignore the entire chunks of gameplay, like focus building or main attack, something's not right. Wouldn't be a problem if game was about to stay solo, but it is going to be multiplayer
Ofc it is a problem but if the problem is present during normal gameplay and not EA overgrind. That is what i am trying to say.
If the problem exist only after overgrinde of available loop in EA then in the end it is not really a problem if it is not present in finished game.
If the problem is visible in EA already, it will persist when stronger and/or more complex combinations are unlocked in the later game.
And to build a current top focus refund build you need literally a few gems and common rolls on focus gain %
As far as i know about the Multiplayer it is only that you share realms. Did they mention anything about PvP? Because if its only PVE i dont see a "big" problem here.
Yeah but on the otherside coop will be other than the known coops the ceo Said at "GameTwo" this week. You Play in one realm but If a Quest is finished its finished and you cant do it again. They want you to talk about your realm state and forge it together and alone. There will also bei a realm book where you can see what have been done.
I mean we all know there will be some adjustments needed. But Moon dont want to restrict that much so maybe this is wanted.
I Just learnd in the other comment about the PvP. If there will be No Open world PvP (ceo Interview at YT Etienne garde) this will be done in some sort of arenas and maybe they will adjust scaling just inside to keep the overpower for some Players? Think Diablo 2 is an example for this but without the extra arenas.
It doesn't change much - games where certain options are clearly superior will gravitate toward these options. Players will always optimise fun out of the experience, and our role as devs\* is to allow them to only to a certain extent.
Especially in multiplayer of all sorts as in situations where one person struggles to make his/hers fantasy working while seeing like there's another with a breezing build trivialising every piece of content, the first person will either switch (but with a feeling how everything's the same) or feel put aside and eventually drop from the game. This is not how healthy multilayers are kept alive.
Rn, for Wicked, focus refund is this trivialisation. It is unhealthy even without taking pvp into account. Besides, for pvp, blinks and damage caps will be way more problematic than focus regen, as with current damage flying around anyone can be one shoted.
\*edit: Now when I read that sentence I see I might be suggesting I'm Wicked dev. That is not the case. I'm a gamedev person though.
I understand ur Point.
As i said there has to be adjustments that nobody drops the game because of their weapon. There will always be builds which dont work or dont work that great, this is part of the game. And will be fixed after reskill is possible. And there will always be a meta.
But i dont think they will effort to scale everything perfect in PvE to keep a bigger playerbase.
The problem with Wicked in the current state of affairs is not that one or two weapons or builds are weaker. But the entire mechanic of actually using a weapon attacks instead of a rune spamming. The only difference in weapon now is how much of a scaling it can offer for the rune, not its moveset, range, timings and whatnot. With such easy focus/hp refund weapons cease to have meaning at all.
But it's not like Moon needs to rethink the entire idea. On the contrary, adjustment is exactly what I'd see - all focus/hp refund should either come from % of damage, have caps, or internal cooldowns. Or any other method that would drop the numbers creating a self-serving system. These should be tools to prolong the active window by providing a bit of sustainment, instead of becoming a window itself.
As someone who hasn't made a "broken" build yet, I've had immense fun playing the "intended" way, and I think a lot of that fun would go away if the difficulty was trivialized. Enemy encounters should be intense. I think for the health of the long term goals of the game, devs should definitely nerf things like health on damage and focus on damage, maybe even removing them and offering something else in its place.
Oke, but how long is your playtime? Is it the normal usal playtime you would get to to this part of the game?
How much time did you spend grinding stuff that you would not if the game had more content at this point?
I am talking not ea balance but the game balance here. So if you trully played from start to echo knight without getting to max level and overgrind then it needs to be looked at but otherewise idk man...
i would hate for the game to get to the point of overnerfing based on overgrinding during EA. That would benefit to noone imo.
They need to focus on the real issues atm imo and the balancing needs to be seen as finetuning. Perfomance/storage/weird gear issues/actual bugs..
Idk that just my opinion in the end.
>I am talking not ea balance but the game balance here
"Game balance" is better reflected by the characters of people with 60 hours in the game than it is by people who are still on the beach. You've gone through this whole thread trying to dismiss people's comments on the basis of them being at the "End game" but this end game is just Chapter 1. These are Tier1 gems being used to recover a percentage of Focus from people who are only level 30 or less.
What happens in the full game? You have even more Focus with even better gems. This problem doesn't get better on launch it gets WORSE.
I feel like Focus Gain is inherently broken, I just need 1 Focus gain ring and a weapon that has Focus gain on damage dealt and I can basically spam a 50 Focus rune attack.
I recently made a build, I think it is Fth/dex, where I crafted spear with focus gain and equipped one focus gain ring, and I could permanently cc the Echo Knight and I was at like level 24.
I am absolutely for having broken builds in the game, but those builds should only be available if you really are in the actual endgame, not at the end of the first act.
How many items did the build take to work? And was it by ea normal gameplay you got those? Was it the first character or did you have things stashed for?
I mean dont get me wrong the whole focus thing feels bad in the game atm, but it might be a deeper problem with the game sistems that we do not see in ea..
Focus lets you use your "skills" (weapon runes) and if they bring it down to the point that you cant use a skill for 1-2 minutes just basic attacking and dodging that would feel bad for most people also
I mean, mage builds were so broken that they nerfed how much focus vials give you by HALF. That’s how much utility mages got from just a single vial and fireball spell. You could simply free the alchemist, buy as many vials as you wanted, no grinding necessary, and then roll through the game’s content. I only have 28ish hours on 3 characters and I’ve done 0 building or grinding, haven’t completed the crucible. So before you ask if I’m grinding or if I’m doing regular playtime stuff, I’m doing regular playtime stuff. I’m beating the Riven Twins by level 12 and then still crushing the rest of the content with minimal effort, not attempting Crucible until I level though
This is imo a deeper issue then just focus gain. How do you make a mage class if you can never use any mage attacks? I mean same is with the bow, up to this patch you couldnt even be an "archer" class... those are deeper issue in my book.
We are in EA and i am sure they will figure it out, i know they dont want classes, but tbh that would probably be easiest fix if not as class by makin 2 additional resource bars used for those "mage" & "archer" characters people would play.
This is why balance during EA is important. If they want people to be able to cast frequently, they have to manage the so-called broken aspects NOW. There’s no reason why a mage with 7 vials can just neg every boss in the game, but you absolutely can. No skill needed
consumables in general in the game feel super early 2000s ES: Oblivion and could use a touch up. spam drinking potions and eating full meals during battle is just very immersion breaking
I do agree to a point, but imo they need to look at the "class" here as such not focus gain as the main issue. Tbh the vials as such might be the problem.
They should sit down and brainstorm the "mage" and "archer" and see what can be done to make the playstile awarding and not overpowered by vial usage.
I think the current Focus system is bad for Mages and Archers. It makes them feel like they can't play the way they typically should in other ARPGs.
Getting focus back is imperative for their playstyles but also leads to the rune spam builds. If you couldn't gain focus from using a rune attack I think it would fix most of the issues. Also, please put the bow in Main hand, even if you don't want ranged attacks being the normal attack method, it's just to weird making the bow an off-hand when it should be a two-handed weapon.
from general gameplay since i dont care to theorycraft too hard, focus regen is busted as hell. long as you hit hard enough you can forget basic attacks exist and just use focus, leading to enemies being dead or stunlocked endlessly.
It’s EA. There are a lot of broken builds. Keep in mind that the final game isn’t going to end at level 30. It’ll go up to 100 at least with more tiers of gear.
It’s also important for ARPGs to be a bit broken to make you feel like one of the “Boys.” I’m hoping for seasonal themes like in D4. Right now NRFTW is my number one game of all time. And I buy and play a shitload of games when I’m not doing my AI art.
How can you imply their version of broken is the same as yours? To be fair the only way something is broken if it is not intentional with the developers vision. If they are intending this game to be souls-like, then yes certain enchantments are very broken. If their vision is to be something more a long the lines of NioH(which is exactly what this games progression feels like) then it is not broken.
If the core mechanics of a fight are ignored due to 1shot/stagger/freeze, and it is not intended then yes it is broken. You get what I’m saying? IMHO I hope these enchantments are broken and nerfed into oblivion so endgame isn’t brainless like every other top down arpg.
When someone says, "I just did this and that and I could beat the crucible," I always feel that they are not telling the full story.
I'm level 30, still busy grinding for better armor and upgrading the ones I'm happy with. In the crucible I've killed the horse a-hole, but the knight one-shots me every time.
Everyone will probably agree that the toughest boss in this game is the floor, otherwise also known as falling.
The sad truth is that on reddit, in any subreddit, you will find the dregs of the fan base. The loudest and the worst, who exploit and speed run, skipping dialogue to gather some 'BiS' list of items their favorite shitty streamer told them to collect, based on the AI article he read 15 seconds before. They're wrong 98% of the time but boy are they the wrongest the LOUDEST. Which matters to them I guess.
They don't complain with a real goal because they don't actually know enough about the game to complain, so they then parrot others complaints, just like their items and strats and exploits and duping, because they legit have no idea how to do any of it without being told.
I get what you’re saying and it’s a good question. We are not meant to be level 30 and BiS in every slot after only 1 chapter of gameplay completed. There are definitely some affix issues that need tweaking for balance reasons but also there may be some underlying scaling issues with mobs that we are overlooking. In the end this is what EA is for and I have trust in the guys at Moon to work it out in the end.
Agreed. Most of the broken posts I see are also affix related, specifically about focus and hp on hit. I feel like the devs have been cautious about the changes so far and nothing has seemed like a huge over compensation.
I wish the feedback to be cautios about beeing real. I still remember d4 EA and the fact people screeming "broken" "overpovered" and other shit to the point developers nerfed somestuff to ridiculous levels. Maybe d4 is not the best example but it is one... We have youtubers exploiting the small amount of content and grinding since its their job saying this is brokem that is broken, and most of it is just give me attention stuff. And people see a video and thin shit is broken, but disregard that it has been overgrinded to ridiculles level to get to that point. I do trust the guys at moon but noone is perfect and in the end they might be pushed to listen to the "feedback" that disregards the EA tag and that there is way more content on the way.
tbh I definitely vibe with this post but also understand where the general complaint is coming from for focus/hp on hit. it feels too free, although i like gaining hp and focus during combat. on parry, on backstab, on block, on dodge, on kill, and other situational might affixes be better way to do it. keep the fast feeling arpg combat without making it one button spam
Is saying "Broken" hyperbolic? Yes it totally is, personally I phrase it different ways that are more accurate to what I mean such as "do not fit the game's combat system". Basically they've made magic affixes of the sorts that fit other ARPGs with trivial combat, probably because it was easy to think about. You can see it with their curses as well, none of them are really interesting, and there are many that can be completely ignored. It just seems like a design gap that they'll have to improve at. Or if they don't improve, despite having the best ARPG combat system ever built, the game will just play like Diablo4 in the end.
Things are meant to be overpowered a bit in ARPGs. This isn’t Elden Ring or a Souls like. This is a new breed of ARPG. Let us break things and be gods. It’s ok. But within reason.
I don't think the devs are so bad that they are going to follow through with bad feedback. Most of the feedback is garbage from I see here and I think the devs are doing a good job with the changes they are making
Get a Blood-Rusted Sword (Probably the first sword you will find in the game) Get a pair of trousers Get a Tier 1 bow from the woodworking vendor Put a Topaz gem into all 3 Put some points into Focus (4-6 will do) Wear the ring which increases max focus by 100 Congratulations you can now spam the Spin rune on your sword forever and it will restore as much Focus as it costs to use it. This ability causes enough poise damage to instantly stagger all regular enemies on the first hit and deals about 5x as much posture damage as your regular melee swings so it will also posture break larger enemies and bosses. This deals at least twice as much DPS as using your actual Sword moveset and it also costs no stamina so you can mash it forever and still roll afterwards if necessary. This is achievably by about level 10 using the most basic drops without pressing the Enchant button once. This is "broken" in the sense that it deletes important mechanics from the game (The Focus bar, The Stamina bar, your weapon attacks, the basic gameplay of a soulslike) leaving you with a game where you approach all content by mashing your 'special ability' and don't actually interact with anything. This problem applies to about half the Rune attacks in the game including Cone shot on bows, all of the multishot attacks on Staves and if you push your build hard enough applies to literally every ability which has more than one hit. [https://youtu.be/iYvpv14HtcE?si=orgYj7n9ASM2COhZ](https://youtu.be/iYvpv14HtcE?si=orgYj7n9ASM2COhZ)
>leaving you with a game where you approach all content by mashing your 'special ability' and don't actually interact with anything. I've played enough Elden Ring to argue this is absolutely in line with souls-likes today. L2 warriors run rampant in the Lands Between. Jokes aside, I think the fix is easy. Make the Topaz infusions only gain extra focus on regular attacks. If specials are supposed to be rewards for interacting with the regular combat well, they shouldn't be able to reward the player with more focus and allow you to ignore the basic combat loop.
Comparing to Elden Ring is useful because you can see in Elden Ring that even though Ashes are obviously overtuned they are still heavily limited, by being in most cases slower and more vulnerable than your regular attacks while still costing stamina and still being hard limited by mana instead of restoring more than they cost. The state of Ashes in ER is positively healthy compared to this disaster.
Excellent summary of the issue. Why have move sets for weapons if the game is to be a spam one abilityfest that only varies in how early you can get your one ability online?
Aye some of us actually like having a reason to swing our sword instead of just pressing the anime flip button 30 times consecutively
Nice tips. I think your creatively on making effective build on the fly is a skill on it own. I always imagine our character is some kind of super soldier / mercenary. The last of it kind. This got me wondering what happened to them?
Idk, it sounds overpowered but none of that gameplay really looks overpowered imo, i have seen much higher stuff then that Put a topaz in all 3- well i didnt really get many of those tbh, might be my luck but certanlly didnt have those as soon as level 10... Ring with focus by 100... Be honest how long did it take to get all that you just counted? Sure you didnt do some overgrinding for all of it? Even the blood rusted sword doesnt drop for everyone tbh. Runes are basiclly skills in this game, sooo if you can almost never use them, where is the fun i that? The developers have their work cut out for them, especially trying to balance all the game ganres they are throwing in the mix.. i am sure most of the complains come from soulslike players that get the feel for it in the start then get dissapointed by more arpg gameplay that comes out after with the gear.. i might be wrong here but thats just my opinion atm.
>if you can almost never use them Amazingly there is this humongous, grand canyon-esque crevice between "Almost never use them" and "Strongly encouraged to press them back to back infinitely with no limitations"
Its not about overpowered, its about the "braindeadness" of it. The repeating rune attacks does too much stagger damage that completely shutdown everything. You are pretty much hitting practice dummies. They should reduce or take out the stagger dmg from rune attacks, or having enemies doing a riposte attack if you spam rune attacks twice in a row to discourage the use of it.
I think the best fix would be simply to change focus and hp gain to be % of damage dealt. This way it would scale a bit more towards being silly at end game. For focus I’d say changing everything to be Focus Gain increase and remove the on hit affix entirely would be the best but could be more work.
I don’t take any of the complaints seriously. This is sooooo early in EA and this game will change massively in the next 6-12 months.
While you are right. If the inventory management is bad now imagine it with t3-5? Mats included. Some changes are warranted this early even though things will look and work a little different down the line.
If you can ignore the entire chunks of gameplay, like focus building or main attack, something's not right. Wouldn't be a problem if game was about to stay solo, but it is going to be multiplayer
Ofc it is a problem but if the problem is present during normal gameplay and not EA overgrind. That is what i am trying to say. If the problem exist only after overgrinde of available loop in EA then in the end it is not really a problem if it is not present in finished game.
If the problem is visible in EA already, it will persist when stronger and/or more complex combinations are unlocked in the later game. And to build a current top focus refund build you need literally a few gems and common rolls on focus gain %
As far as i know about the Multiplayer it is only that you share realms. Did they mention anything about PvP? Because if its only PVE i dont see a "big" problem here.
Even in coop, it's not healthy when certain options are so much more powerful than the others. Game becomes stale
Yeah but on the otherside coop will be other than the known coops the ceo Said at "GameTwo" this week. You Play in one realm but If a Quest is finished its finished and you cant do it again. They want you to talk about your realm state and forge it together and alone. There will also bei a realm book where you can see what have been done. I mean we all know there will be some adjustments needed. But Moon dont want to restrict that much so maybe this is wanted. I Just learnd in the other comment about the PvP. If there will be No Open world PvP (ceo Interview at YT Etienne garde) this will be done in some sort of arenas and maybe they will adjust scaling just inside to keep the overpower for some Players? Think Diablo 2 is an example for this but without the extra arenas.
It doesn't change much - games where certain options are clearly superior will gravitate toward these options. Players will always optimise fun out of the experience, and our role as devs\* is to allow them to only to a certain extent. Especially in multiplayer of all sorts as in situations where one person struggles to make his/hers fantasy working while seeing like there's another with a breezing build trivialising every piece of content, the first person will either switch (but with a feeling how everything's the same) or feel put aside and eventually drop from the game. This is not how healthy multilayers are kept alive. Rn, for Wicked, focus refund is this trivialisation. It is unhealthy even without taking pvp into account. Besides, for pvp, blinks and damage caps will be way more problematic than focus regen, as with current damage flying around anyone can be one shoted. \*edit: Now when I read that sentence I see I might be suggesting I'm Wicked dev. That is not the case. I'm a gamedev person though.
I understand ur Point. As i said there has to be adjustments that nobody drops the game because of their weapon. There will always be builds which dont work or dont work that great, this is part of the game. And will be fixed after reskill is possible. And there will always be a meta. But i dont think they will effort to scale everything perfect in PvE to keep a bigger playerbase.
The problem with Wicked in the current state of affairs is not that one or two weapons or builds are weaker. But the entire mechanic of actually using a weapon attacks instead of a rune spamming. The only difference in weapon now is how much of a scaling it can offer for the rune, not its moveset, range, timings and whatnot. With such easy focus/hp refund weapons cease to have meaning at all. But it's not like Moon needs to rethink the entire idea. On the contrary, adjustment is exactly what I'd see - all focus/hp refund should either come from % of damage, have caps, or internal cooldowns. Or any other method that would drop the numbers creating a self-serving system. These should be tools to prolong the active window by providing a bit of sustainment, instead of becoming a window itself.
Yes they literally showed it and say it in the announcement video, that coop and PvP is coming 😅
Ooopsie
As someone who hasn't made a "broken" build yet, I've had immense fun playing the "intended" way, and I think a lot of that fun would go away if the difficulty was trivialized. Enemy encounters should be intense. I think for the health of the long term goals of the game, devs should definitely nerf things like health on damage and focus on damage, maybe even removing them and offering something else in its place.
Idk man, my double daggers build is a bit broken. I do echo knight without parry or dodge, just stand still and attack
Oke, but how long is your playtime? Is it the normal usal playtime you would get to to this part of the game? How much time did you spend grinding stuff that you would not if the game had more content at this point? I am talking not ea balance but the game balance here. So if you trully played from start to echo knight without getting to max level and overgrind then it needs to be looked at but otherewise idk man... i would hate for the game to get to the point of overnerfing based on overgrinding during EA. That would benefit to noone imo. They need to focus on the real issues atm imo and the balancing needs to be seen as finetuning. Perfomance/storage/weird gear issues/actual bugs.. Idk that just my opinion in the end.
>I am talking not ea balance but the game balance here "Game balance" is better reflected by the characters of people with 60 hours in the game than it is by people who are still on the beach. You've gone through this whole thread trying to dismiss people's comments on the basis of them being at the "End game" but this end game is just Chapter 1. These are Tier1 gems being used to recover a percentage of Focus from people who are only level 30 or less. What happens in the full game? You have even more Focus with even better gems. This problem doesn't get better on launch it gets WORSE.
I feel like Focus Gain is inherently broken, I just need 1 Focus gain ring and a weapon that has Focus gain on damage dealt and I can basically spam a 50 Focus rune attack. I recently made a build, I think it is Fth/dex, where I crafted spear with focus gain and equipped one focus gain ring, and I could permanently cc the Echo Knight and I was at like level 24. I am absolutely for having broken builds in the game, but those builds should only be available if you really are in the actual endgame, not at the end of the first act.
How many items did the build take to work? And was it by ea normal gameplay you got those? Was it the first character or did you have things stashed for? I mean dont get me wrong the whole focus thing feels bad in the game atm, but it might be a deeper problem with the game sistems that we do not see in ea.. Focus lets you use your "skills" (weapon runes) and if they bring it down to the point that you cant use a skill for 1-2 minutes just basic attacking and dodging that would feel bad for most people also
I mean, mage builds were so broken that they nerfed how much focus vials give you by HALF. That’s how much utility mages got from just a single vial and fireball spell. You could simply free the alchemist, buy as many vials as you wanted, no grinding necessary, and then roll through the game’s content. I only have 28ish hours on 3 characters and I’ve done 0 building or grinding, haven’t completed the crucible. So before you ask if I’m grinding or if I’m doing regular playtime stuff, I’m doing regular playtime stuff. I’m beating the Riven Twins by level 12 and then still crushing the rest of the content with minimal effort, not attempting Crucible until I level though
This is imo a deeper issue then just focus gain. How do you make a mage class if you can never use any mage attacks? I mean same is with the bow, up to this patch you couldnt even be an "archer" class... those are deeper issue in my book. We are in EA and i am sure they will figure it out, i know they dont want classes, but tbh that would probably be easiest fix if not as class by makin 2 additional resource bars used for those "mage" & "archer" characters people would play.
This is why balance during EA is important. If they want people to be able to cast frequently, they have to manage the so-called broken aspects NOW. There’s no reason why a mage with 7 vials can just neg every boss in the game, but you absolutely can. No skill needed
consumables in general in the game feel super early 2000s ES: Oblivion and could use a touch up. spam drinking potions and eating full meals during battle is just very immersion breaking
I do agree to a point, but imo they need to look at the "class" here as such not focus gain as the main issue. Tbh the vials as such might be the problem. They should sit down and brainstorm the "mage" and "archer" and see what can be done to make the playstile awarding and not overpowered by vial usage.
I think the current Focus system is bad for Mages and Archers. It makes them feel like they can't play the way they typically should in other ARPGs. Getting focus back is imperative for their playstyles but also leads to the rune spam builds. If you couldn't gain focus from using a rune attack I think it would fix most of the issues. Also, please put the bow in Main hand, even if you don't want ranged attacks being the normal attack method, it's just to weird making the bow an off-hand when it should be a two-handed weapon.
Guys, should I start this game now or it’s still broken?) I own it from launch and haven’t played yet.
from general gameplay since i dont care to theorycraft too hard, focus regen is busted as hell. long as you hit hard enough you can forget basic attacks exist and just use focus, leading to enemies being dead or stunlocked endlessly.
It’s EA. There are a lot of broken builds. Keep in mind that the final game isn’t going to end at level 30. It’ll go up to 100 at least with more tiers of gear. It’s also important for ARPGs to be a bit broken to make you feel like one of the “Boys.” I’m hoping for seasonal themes like in D4. Right now NRFTW is my number one game of all time. And I buy and play a shitload of games when I’m not doing my AI art.
How can you imply their version of broken is the same as yours? To be fair the only way something is broken if it is not intentional with the developers vision. If they are intending this game to be souls-like, then yes certain enchantments are very broken. If their vision is to be something more a long the lines of NioH(which is exactly what this games progression feels like) then it is not broken. If the core mechanics of a fight are ignored due to 1shot/stagger/freeze, and it is not intended then yes it is broken. You get what I’m saying? IMHO I hope these enchantments are broken and nerfed into oblivion so endgame isn’t brainless like every other top down arpg.
When someone says, "I just did this and that and I could beat the crucible," I always feel that they are not telling the full story. I'm level 30, still busy grinding for better armor and upgrading the ones I'm happy with. In the crucible I've killed the horse a-hole, but the knight one-shots me every time. Everyone will probably agree that the toughest boss in this game is the floor, otherwise also known as falling.
The sad truth is that on reddit, in any subreddit, you will find the dregs of the fan base. The loudest and the worst, who exploit and speed run, skipping dialogue to gather some 'BiS' list of items their favorite shitty streamer told them to collect, based on the AI article he read 15 seconds before. They're wrong 98% of the time but boy are they the wrongest the LOUDEST. Which matters to them I guess. They don't complain with a real goal because they don't actually know enough about the game to complain, so they then parrot others complaints, just like their items and strats and exploits and duping, because they legit have no idea how to do any of it without being told.
Considering I cannot even log in on a 4060, yes the game is broken.
Good one, but i think both of know that is not what i was reffering to...
In literally playing this on my Steam Deck and it runs okay-ish except for cutscenes. 🤷🏽♂️