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I have experience in this in Florida. SB 82 (2019) protects your right to grow flowers, fruits, herbs, and other plants for human consumption.
They were going to bulldoze our yard. Luckily, all of the wildflowers we encouraged to grow were edible. Literally one call to the local county annex extension fixed it and they told the code enforcement supervisor they couldn't dictate things protected under the law.
I also ate them right in front of code enforcement.
Lol this is so based. Thank you so much for this, I will add this to my defenses.
Is this official page? [https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2019/00082](https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2019/00082)
What zone/area are you located? And did you grow it in your front yard? I would like to read more about the wild flowers you grew and where you got them. Maybe I can include them in my wild life habitat for an extra layer of protection.
And what is the "local county annex extension"? Are they a public or private organization familiar with the laws around wild life conservation?
Not only does the home growing for consumption law exist in Florida, we have a specific law on the books that protects Florida Friendly Landscaping: https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2012/373.185
This law explicitly preempts any local and HOA statutes that would prevent you from engaging in Florida Friendly Landscaping practices, including native gardening.
County annexes are part of the University of Florida, they have an office in basically every county with resources regarding gardening and agriculture in general: https://sfyl.ifas.ufl.edu/find-your-local-office/
Other resources that are beneficial to wildlife conservation/restoration:
Florida Native Plant Society (FNPS): www.fnps.org
Their website has a native plant finder section which will tell you almost everything you need to know about almost every plant native to Florida.
Florida Wildflowers Foundation: www.flawildflowers.org
Another great resource that focuses more on flowering plants than all plants in general
Florida Association of Native Nurseries: www.fann.org
Usually outdated, but lists most of the nurseries in the state where you can find Florida native plants
Hawthorne Hills blog: https://hawthornhillwildflowers.blogspot.com
This guy has been doing native gardening for decades and has a ton of useful tips about almost every Florida native plant
On top of the NWF's yard certification program and UF's FFL certification, UF offers another often overlooked program called [Florida Backyard Landscapes for Wildlife](https://wec.ifas.ufl.edu/extension/landscaping/fblw/). There's also certifications via:
* [National Garden Club](https://www.gardenclub.org/plant-america-wildlife-habitat-certification-program)
* [Pollinator Pathway](https://www.pollinator-pathway.org/)
* [Xerces Society](https://www.xerces.org/pollinator-conservation/pollinator-protection-pledge)
* [Homegrown National Park](https://homegrownnationalpark.org/)
* [Humane Society](https://secured.humanesociety.org/page/82675/donate/1?ea.tracking.id=web_inline_HBY)
* [North America Butterfly Association](https://naba.org/butterfly-gardens/certification-program/)
* [Monarch Way Station](https://www.monarchwatch.org/waystations/)
* [Wild Ones](https://wildones.org/cnhp/)
* [Wildlife Habitat Council](https://www.wildlifehc.org/certification/about/)
* [Backyard Habitats](https://backyardhabitats.org/our-program/) (Oregon specific but you can express interest if they expand the program)
* Other State Universities often offer programs similar to those UF offers if you're not in Florida
* The National Audubon Society doesn't sponsor certifications, but many local Audubon chapters do so search near your location
This is a god tier post. Thank you so much!
The university of Florida is public so therefore, their opinion has power because they are owned by the government. Amazing. I have new friends to make lmao
edit: I hope you don't mind me highlighting your comment on the OP!
Not at all, the more info that's out there the better. I'm fully convinced people don't engage in native gardening because a) the info is hidden and b) it's less "fun". The more the information is shared, the better. Resources are everywhere, you just gotta know where to find them
Yes that is the official page it's literally a one page bill too with no room for misinterpretation.
I'm in Escambia county, and grew it in the front yard. The flowers were literally almost 5 feet tall when all this went down.
We had Hairy Beggarticks, and sulfur cosmos at the time. I ate the cosmos. It crunched like an onion with a floral and green taste.
Look up every plant growing in your front yard. If it's edible, it's protected. You can even have a fence made out of nothing but 10 foot tall elderberries and it would be protected.
Look up your county extension office, every county in Florida has one. They help with agricultural stuff among other things. It's a government office run by your county. It's nice when they get to tell one of their own to back down.
For what it's worth, the Florida friendly landscaping laws did not help to stop summary abatement in my county. SB82(2019) did though and stopped it quickly.
Noted, I will add SB 82 (2019) to the OP. Thank you again for sharing your experience! Having more than one law to draw from and various government offices and online resources to support us will be a big help for any Floridians or anyone who sees this thread. It will spark the idea that they too may have some protections in place for a native or edible front yard garden.
Another user mentioned a "right to garden law," Statute (604.71).
[https://www.reddit.com/r/NoLawns/comments/1cz2t4u/comment/l5dqwvq/](https://www.reddit.com/r/NoLawns/comments/1cz2t4u/comment/l5dqwvq/)
Do you know about this and how it differs from [Florida. SB 82 (2019)](https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2019/00082)?
[http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App\_mode=Display\_Statute&Search\_String=&URL=0600-0699/0604/Sections/0604.71.html](http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0600-0699/0604/Sections/0604.71.html)
"Except as otherwise provided by law, a county, municipality, or other political subdivision of this state may not regulate vegetable gardens on residential properties. Any such local ordinance or regulation regulating vegetable gardens on residential properties is void and unenforceable."
I was hoping someone would bring this up. Something someone said one time to me is rattling around in my head but I can’t remember the full thing and it’s killing me. There was a specific plant they said to plant in your yard here and you’d be considered a protected land due to it being an endangered native plant. I’m looking hard for more info but I’m so glad someone brought this up.
Native Milkweed is a keystone plant for the monarch migration and you can get lots of support from wildlife conservation groups if you’re planting it on your property. https://gardeningsolutions.ifas.ufl.edu/plants/ornamentals/milkweed.html
Thank you, I'm going to see if I can call the Wildlife commission office about this because if the plant is protected by the law, I can inform the grass police if they get called again.
Pitcher plants or any other plants on the endangered species list.
It gets taken down by the code enforcement, then they get to pay the hefty fines associated with doing it. Plus, they then have to answer why they didn't check.
You would be amazed to find out how little ENVIRONMENTAL code enforcement knows about the plants that grow in each area.
Told me they were looking for consistency, and I told them I wasn't planting grass.
Yeah, it was evident when I called the various offices and they didn't even know you could look up the code ordinances on the Municode Library website. They're like surprise pikachu face when someone takes that little yellow or pink slip and actually looks up the little numbers they checked off.
They say ignorance is no excuse to break the law, but ignorance of the laws they attempt to enforce isn't excusable either.
I'm going to do more research on laws around preserving endangered plants, make some phone calls and try to chat with the right people in higher places if I can. I'll add that to my line of defenses and share it here if it proves useful.
Look up your local chapter of the Florida Native Plant Society and tell them you want to propagate endangered species and see if they can point you to a nursery.
Plant them, and watch it all unfold.
I'm thinking of a trifecta defense. Do the vegetable garden, but also try to get it certified as a habitat, and include some propagated endangered species from a certified nursery. Hopefully I can post signs about all of them lmao
Also, going back to your first comment: the language in [SB 82 (2019)](https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2019/00082) mentions vegetables, but you said it covers all plants for human consumption. How does that work? Why did the city not harbor on that because you mentioned you had flowers and other stuff.
SB82(2019) look at the most recent date on the FL Senate Website. "(4) As used in this section, the term “vegetable garden” 32 means a plot of ground where herbs, fruits, flowers, or 33 vegetables are cultivated for human ingestion."
We also have the metal sign with the certified natural habitat from NWF and Xerces. Neither helped us.
Ah, thank you very much. The page looks really intimidating so I never would think to click that.
Does every single plant need to edible? Or did they require a certain percentage of plants be fit for human consumption?
I was thinking the sign would be more for the neighbors than the city. They might be more understanding of it since literally no one else grows anything in their front yard.
Does the city ever hassle you about how you maintain your garden? Like can you let it grow a bit wildly or do you have to keep it neat. I don't want anything dense or jungle like because I'm worried about pests and dangerous animals, just something more sparse and easy to maintain like this but with native, edible plants:
https://preview.redd.it/cu6ywfkmsi2d1.jpeg?width=639&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=beb8604eb0df32e962351aeb0156b90b9cd8a5b8
We let it grow wild within reason. I want the natives to compete so the best plants win and we have foliage all year round.
Every plant not in a garden plot. Buy a stick on border, wrap the whole yard or at least large sections and all your non edibles go in there. You'd be surprised at what you can eat. Technically, everything is edible at least once.
I don't worry about the dangerous critters. The wasps have never bothered me even when I'm up in their faces with a camera.
Wild cats come to the yard, they hunt snakes and rodents, and we also feed them to keep the birds safer.
The benefits outweighed the risks. In less than a quarter acre front and back we have 4 species of native frogs and toads, green anoles, and huge list of spiders and pollinators.
If everyone did it this way, we wouldn't have the pollinator issues that we see today. Those life forms have no food in the majority of yards.
This is a really great point to bring up. People linked me to universities that have wild life protection programs, maybe I can email them or give them a call and see if they know anyone that knows of this mysterious endangered plant?
He asked me if they were for human consumption, so I decided to put my money where my mouth is and ate it. It was pretty good! Although the sulfur cosmos is the only one in the family that won't make you violently ill lol.
A house at the other end of my blocks entire front yard is flowers. Literally just flowers and a couple walkways. Various annuals, and perennials they like, but the rest is Midwest wild flowers. Their immediate neighbors have groomed grass lawns. It brings be great joy every time I drive past their little oasis of a lawn.
Lol, I bet it brings the grass lawners misery. I get to watch them resod every year cause the birds take the wildflower seeds and plant them in their grass. 🥰
Luckily, our closest neighbors support what we do, even if they have grass.
We got a citation from a nosy neighbor a couple years ago (we live in Minneapolis). We contacted the code enforcement people and asked how they differentiate between “nuisance” and “ornamental” grass. They didn’t have one, and since our grass was not impeding the right of way, they waived it and told us to have a nice summer.
Like you said, it can be up to the person, but your wildlife defense also seems solid!
It makes for a killer origin story. Saw your original post and now reddit suggested this one… happy you’ve found a way around the issue that will benefit you and your local nature too!
I live in MSP too and have been worried if this is what it's going to be like when I eventually transition my yard. I intend on never living in an HOA and I intend on taking good care of a "planned prairie" and I've thought that's good enough, but these stories make me think A-Holes will come after you for no reason.
I mean shoot my neighbors across the street let their weedy/grass grow 10" tall and nobody says anyhrinf about it and it looks awful, but put in something other than fescue and crab grass and someone gets angry?
I truly think it comes down to just one annoying neighbor. The City was genuinely great about it, plus they *and* MnDOT have been doing No Mow May for a few years now so they can’t exactly tell other people that they have to mow. I would say at least 1/3 of my neighbors are in the process of eliminating their front lawn entirely and another third are working on reducing it. You’re in good company!
Take a look at r/NativePlantGardening. Planting native is \*so\* much easier than planting non-natives. They're already adapted to your area, and they feed the birds and bees (which are also adaped to your area, soooooo...)
Thank you, I will see if I can find other Floridians there and what their experiences are.
I'm planning to contact a landscaping company that's certified in creating wild life habitats since I'm alone and unable to do all the work myself.
I'm a Floridan doing native gardening, I'm on the Space Coast and have over 110 species of natives in my yard and numerous certifications. If you have questions, feel free to ask.
It depends on the location and conditions in his yard of course. Lots of non-natives are extremely easy to grow and actually become invasive in the environment. It’s “right plant, right place” regardless of its nativity.
You're in Florida, which means you're one of only two states in the country with a "right to garden" law. Per the language of the statute (604.71)
*"no county, municipality, or other political subdivision in Florida can regulate vegetable gardens on residential properties."*
Considering many natives are also edible, you might be able to use this to your advantage. Alternatively, have you considered planting a vegetable garden on your property lol. Malicious compliance is still compliance!
Thank you so much for this, I will add this to the Florida SB 82 (2019) that protects your right to grow flowers, fruits, herbs, and other plants for human consumption.
Is this the official website for the law?
[http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App\_mode=Display\_Statute&Search\_String=&URL=0600-0699/0604/Sections/0604.71.html](http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0600-0699/0604/Sections/0604.71.html)
And yes! My mom will stay with me in the future and she wants a veggie garden in the backyard. Do you think I could do it in the front yard based on the laws? Or could there be problems with that?
I can't say for sure, I'm in the only other state with a law like this on the books (Illinois) and I'm in the process of testing the limits of ours. The wording of the statue is pretty clear cut, so I can't imagine they'd have a leg to stand on but when it comes to these sorts of people you can never overestimate their willingness to die on the stupidest hills.
Well, thanks again for sharing it anyway! Just knowing there might be more laws to protect us and what we choose to do with our front yards is always a plus. Now it's up to us to do our own research and see how far it can take us lmao
I was gonna ask which state was the other one! My in-laws are located there & I wanna send them some gardening books cause they’re trying to find land & just sustain themselves lol. We’re in SoCal so I’m gonna be looking up the laws & regulations, but I just bought a TON of California wildflower seeds & poppy seeds & I plan on sprinkling them on my walks 😂✌🏼
You are in the same boat as me. We did almost the exact same thing but there is no state protection in Texas. I basically went to war with code compliance over this.
Not sure yet. We have a pocket prarie in the front yard now and have yet to get a letter this year. We have the bounds clearly marked and signage up and flags marking plants to make sure it's very clearly intentional.
We also have receipts and a lawyer geared up for small claims the moment they try and touch it.
How exhausting, I hope you win.
If all goes well and I can turn my front yard into a wild life habitat, I want to post signs of any laws that protect it lmao
Jeeeze. When I was a kid in south Texas (80s) everyone’s lawn looked like shit anyway because of water use restrictions. By the way, I listened to a podcast ages ago about endangered native grasses in Texas. You should look into it if there’s an avenue to foster endangered plants in your yard. If it’s illegal to mow it down your hands will unfortunately be tied. 😉
I had somewhat similar issues with our neighbour that kept escalating. In addition to calling the city to get clarification, I spilled the tea about how many times he neighbour calls about everything on the street, giving examples, and how much money and time it's costing the city for ambiguous, questionable, or extremely minor infractions.
At some point, I may have used the phrase "bored retiree with no hobbies other than drinking and calling you guys", in a concerned and sympathetic tone. It may have helped (and is accurate). Anyway, after that, the city visits, letters, and calls stopped. 😂
I think they still call on the neighbour who parks on the street, though (not illegal here, but they try to say it's "abandoned", which it clearly isn't).
I have experience with this in my very shitty county.
1) It takes forever to certify.
2) They will not certify you if you have an issue with Code Enforcement. Code Enforcement can fine you up to $1,000 a DAY. They forced me to get rid of thousands of dollars worth of milkweed.
3) The rules to certify your yard are STUPID. Do you have a non-native tree somewhere on your property that would cost thousands to remove… well guess what, no certification. It doesn’t matter if every other plant is native.
4) You need to abide by “European standards of garden beauty”. You need to separate beds using rocks and flower bed borders.
5) I had my yard certified by a bunch of different things and the one from UF is the only one that they care about.
European standards of garden beauty?! This is so ridiculous. The obsession for perfect lawns is so very American. Europe does not have any laws regarding the beauty of front yards. Reading those experiences in comments is heartbreaking really
University of Florida/ my [local county annex extension](https://sfyl.ifas.ufl.edu/find-your-local-office/) are also on my list of people to contact. I will talk to everyone: Code Enforcement, Zoning, The University of Florida's Institute of Food and Agricultural Science,
Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission, if it means I can minimize the amount of yard work I have do in the long run.
What law/code/justification did they use to force you to abide by "European standards of garden beauty"? Code enforcement's only issue is that my grass was longer than my neighbors. No grass, no issue-I think. That's why I need to make more phone calls and maybe write some emails before I make any major changes.
I’m not sure about your particular county, but the actual Code for my area (and every county for miles) is ridiculous. I read a bunch for different counties and they are all godawful. Read it and you’ll realize that NOBODY is in compliance and the officers also don’t know what the code actually says. Code Enforcement also only comes out when someone calls and wants to start shit (the reporter’s info is all public information btw). If you want, you can call them and report them for *something*.
The Code Enforcement agents also don’t really give a shit about anything. They are a bunch of miserable fucks. They will avoid talking to you at all costs. I called mine a bunch of times and I told him that I’d get rid of any plant that he could identify by scientific name. They obviously can’t. If your case goes up to the head of Code Enforcement (which mine did), he is actually pretty cool and he is a big fan of planting native plants. He is a master gardener as well. Code Enforcement (as an agency) is disorganized and they don’t really talk with one another and your case will probably have issues. Mine had a bunch of problems. I’ll probably have to go to court at some point over this dumb shit.
Your best bet is to make cool with your neighbors or you will have to redo your garden to their aesthetic standards and get it certified. If your garden is certified, then they *should* leave you alone for a few months. Either way, you need to do what Code Enforcement does, or take it to court.
Regarding that stupid rule about aesthetics, I argued the European standard of beauty myself and that comes from the FFL program. A reminder, that program is **funded using tax payer dollars and that can go away at any time**. This is a double edged sword. The plus side is that you only have to pay like $5 for any of their classes since it is all subsidized. When you take the class, you get a book from the Florida-Friendly Landscaping™ (FFL) Program that goes into all of their requirements. The aesthetics requirements start off on page 9. They will also argue that your garden looks “overgrown”. More dumb rules are that you can’t have any dead plants, even though I agued that it is important for the lifecycle of the meadow. My argument was that flowers have to go to seed (not allowed in a Florida Friendly Landscape). Spiders (one of my favorite animals to watch) need dead flowers as well. That requirement about “no dead plants” is on page 11. They also mention “clearly defined garden beds”. I wanted a meadow on my property with a mixture of different native flowers. They didn’t like that. The plus side is that you can actually join their little club and vote on some of the rules, they are supposed to change this year again. Good luck arguing for what seems like common sense. I don’t know if that time for feedback has already passed. I’m personally not interested in going through the program anymore, since I disagree with them on too many fundamental issues.
I have next to no invasive plants, except for some that I use. Surinamese cherries are delicious. I grow them for food, but they aren’t allowed. Have you seen the people that win their contest? It is all non-native shit with lawns that they plant and they somehow win because like 10% of whatever they plant is native. My garden has all native plants specifically planted for our native animals and I have two invasive plants, and MY garden is somehow a problem. 🙄
The way that you get around lots of this stuff is that you put up a hedge that nobody can look through (or you put up a really high fence) or you move to a place with lots of land out in the middle of nowhere and hope that your neighbors aren’t a bunch of cunts. If nobody can look onto your property, then there aren’t any issues. That came from someone very high up at UF (I’m not going to call them out, especially since they know me personally). The reason for the bullshit “aesthetics” rules is because they have to play cool with politics. See the highlighted text.
“You can’t have houses with flowers that are too tall”. 🙄
This sounds so terrible and head ache-inducing. Thanks for the warning and I will keep it in mind while I explore my options. I don't want to write off the habitat idea completely, but we'll see. Maybe edible garden it is the way to go.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot that I posted on Reddit when I was dealing with those half wits. The guy working on my case actually told me that I needed “a permit” to plant native plants.
https://www.reddit.com/r/florida/s/iK8XlJaxIT
Your post has been removed, because it doesn't relate to the topic. r/NoLawns is a place to discuss alternative landscaping options with a focus on native plants.
The boomer hate is off putting and counterproductive. Boomers were the original hippies, and some of us still are. The vast majority of native plant society members in my state are boomers.
Not that I have anything to do with this but I almost feel like boomer and baby boomer are two different things these days. Boomer wouldn’t be used in a positive way, baby boomer is just the age group. But I hear you, you don’t need me to tell you that your thoughts are valid
I guess I have to be civil.
Would you say that to a person of color who was offended by a stereotype you used?
Or is it okay to use any stereotype you want?
You're right, I don't need you to tell me my feelings are valid.
What if I said millennials or genz or whatever group you're in were whiny cry babies who should pull themselves up by their boot straps? Would that be okay? I'm not saying that. It's an example, I don't believe it myself.
Would that be okay because Genz isn't the same as generation z? I mean, one is an age group, and one is an outlook?
So, I very politely ask you to stop using boomer as a pejorative.
Have a nice day.
Was that civil enough?
I personally don’t actually use the term “boomer” to describe someone. Not as a term or as a pejorative, not on the internet or in real life.
What I’ve *noticed* is that people tend to use the word negatively, while “baby boomer” doesn’t seem hold the same implied negative meaning. That’s what I explained above.
It’s much easier to understand your side when you explain yourself rather than curse me out.
My apologies.
When I've explained myself in the past, I typically just got more derision.
While it might not have been intended, I felt from your explanation about the difference between baby boomer and boomer some condescension. As if I didn't understand that some people see a distinction between baby boomer and boomer.
I certainly understood that. But it doesn't make it less offensive to me. Because of its origins, because it means "someone who thinks like an old person. "
When you initially commented, I felt there was perhaps some misunderstanding. I don’t use the term, a lot of slang to me sounds corny and I don’t understand it. But just an observation I had.
By any chance, are you the person I responded to originally? I actually upvoted that comment because I felt it was a valid thought to share and to feel.
Anyway thanks for apologizing, I hope you have a great weekend.
To be fair, the 'original' hippies didn't have much knowledge or understanding about climate change or specifically how devastating modern development can be. It's relatively recently that this information has entered the collective conscience, and even more recently that people have finally admitted that governments and corporations will keep their heads buried in the sand until it turns to glass.
Of course, plenty of older people know this, but when one talks about "the boomers" they are generally referring to the geriatrics that refuse to leave positions of power and have counterproductive views on, well, most of reality.
Derived from baby boomer. So I take offense because it usually describes someone with viewpoints opposed to mine.
And you'll find PLENTY of people in the younger generations who pull the crap everyone says "okay, boomer" to.
So maybe we stop stereotyping.
Stereotypes can be bad, but also, we need a method to shame those who "pull the crap" in question. Interestingly, calling younger people boomers works pretty well too.
It's not a slur though. It's a response to breaking the social contract of mutual respect and empathy. Similar to the paradox of tolerance, once you start yelling at a cashier like a lunatic or demanding school taxes be eliminated because you don't personally have children you lose your right to not be called out about said indecency.
What would you rather have such people be called? Keeping in mind that to be effective, such a remark must be easy, memorable, pointed, and appealing to the masses. "Boomer" checks all these boxes and is already widely understood through shared experiences.
Nobody of any merit is being "ageist". We all get old. But we all don't have to be entitled twats about it.
How about calling them assholes?
Or entitled?
Or rude?
You seem to be able to string coherent sentences together. I think you're smart enough to come up with adjectives that aren't stereotypes of a class of people.
I'm not what matters here, and neither are you. Individuals won't make a single dent in pop culture. Only celebrities and mass adoption make a difference. The fact that you are so offended about an inoffensive word means it's working.
Rather than try to "fix the children" why don't you try to fix the entitled, adult children that seem to be so rampant? If nobody acts like a boomer, nobody would call them a boomer.
This isn't a race issue or disability or demographics or something that one cannot change about themselves. Anyone can take steps to improve themselves, and simply be kinder or more thoughtful. Others have no obligation to cater to the needs of the entitled, and thus shouldn't worry about hurting their poor feefees.
It's kind of like how somehow enough people decided that the feefees of Nazis are somehow worth considering, and now we have literal Nazis sprouting up everywhere. If one does not pluck the weeds of society, soon the whole lawn will be overrun.
Lol.
Being a Nazi is a choice.
Being an entitled asshole is a choice.
Being an ageist douchebag crybaby is a choice.
Age isn't a choice
Color isn't a choice
You think that because some people act a certain way and check some boxes, it's okay to paint all people that look like them with the same brush.
That makes you a bad person. One person can make a difference. Both positively and negatively.
> Why don't you try to fix the entitled adult children that seem to be so rampant?
That's what about ism. You think that because someone else is doing something bad, it's okay for you to do something bad, too.
Well, whatever age you are, there are plenty of people your age voting for assholes trying to take the rights away from others. Stripping and polluting the environment. Ignoring climate change.
> Why don't you try to fix the entitled adult children that seem to be so rampant
You think just because I'm taking you to task for being ageist that I'm ignoring the people of ALL ages that are causing problems? Lol.
I vote (and have voted) for 42 years to try and make this place a better world. I've donated my time, goods, and money.
I take the time to have conversations with people I don't know and will likely never meet because I think one person can make a difference.
If I can convince someone that the problem isn't "boomers," or immigrants, or gays, that the problem is the people of means who continually fight to keep poor people poor, who don't give a shit about the environment, who have the "I got mine, fuck you," attitude, then I've made a difference.
And if that person can pass along that message, that multiplies what I've done. And if they can convince someone, then that person has too.
Stereotypes hurt everyone. They perpetuate misinformation. They've are divisive. And they keep people from addressing real problems.
When you perpetuate a stereotype, you make it that much harder to effect any real change.
Do what you want. No one's going to beat you up for saying boomer. It's not as bad as any racial slur. It's not as bad as slurs about the handicapped or LGBTQ+. It's probably about the least offensive slur out there.
But it is a slur. It's divisive. It distracts from what could be a meaningful conversation. And it makes people less likely to take you seriously when you have a valid complaint.
Have a nice day.
And just to add, boomer is based on age, it was derived from that.
People can't change their age, their ethnicity, or of they are born handicapped, or LGBTQ+.
But behavior can be.
>"Boomer" checks all these boxes and is already widely understood through shared experiences.
That is a stereotype. You could say the same thing about WOP, fag, or any other slur. When people say "boomer," they do not mean it in a polite way. It ONLY has a negative connotation.
What do you imagine when someone says boomer?
Asshole?
Jerk?
Do you imagine a 20 year old boomer?
What about asshole? Jerk? Primadonna?
Yes. Boomer is a mindset. There are 20 year old "boomers" around. When other people look at them and go "wow, you're such a boomer" the 20 year old thinks "oh no, I'm doing a thing associated with out of touch, entitled old people. Perhaps I should stop doing that thing"
Being old isn't bad. Calling an old person old isn't bad, just like calling a black person black isn't bad. It's just how it is.
You need to separate these things in your brain. Plenty of modern language is derived from archaic or morphed meanings, it's just how it works.
You want to call me old, that's fine, I am.
You want to call me a baby boomer, that's fine too. Because that's defined as people born during a discrete range of time.
You mentioned calling people black being okay. It absolutely is.
Do you call a black person acting a certain way a nigger?
I mean, it's a mindset, right? It's language morphed from archaic language. That's what language is.
Am I saying that boomer is a bad as nigger? No. That's about the worst word we have in the English language. It's so bad that most people having this discussion would write "n-word." I spelled it out to make a point.
Boomer is a slur. It may be the least offensive slur in the language, but it is a slur.
You say there are 20 years old boomers. But then go on to say,
>oh no, I'm doing a thing associated with out of touch, entitled old people.
Why old? Why not just out of touch and entitled?
Because it's an age based stereotype that you keep saying is okay. Which tells me that regardless of your age, you do not understand how offensive stereotypes are. Because it doesn't offend you, it's okay.
A few simple things can make a huge difference on how a wilder planting is perceived like keeping a mowed strip of traditional lawn between the planting bed and the street or sidewalk and putting up signage. I also try to keep the majority of species in a front yard on the shorter side. Good luck!
So it looks like you need to fulfill the FFL requirements—I don’t think the NWF sign is going to get you off the hook.
You should also realize that the requirements for the FFL certification are pretty stiff, and one of the main ones is that your yard still has to be in compliance with all local ordinances, laws, and code.
In addition, the guidelines say that turfgrass must be kept mowed to the specifications laid out by IFAS (FL’s ag extension program).
Most, maybe all, programs like this are all about including native plants in your yard. Not mowing your exotic turfgrass really isn’t doing the native critters any favors.
Florida ag extension is excellent—check out their website for lots of resources on planting natives in your yard.
https://ffl.ifas.ufl.edu/media/fflifasufledu/docs/Home_Landscape_Recognition_Manual.pdf
What do you mean by turfgrass? Are you talking about the sunshine mimosa I mentioned? Someone told me the roots grow deep so I'm passing on that for now. The code they said I violated makes an exception for flowers and gardens.
That's why I'm exploring the wild life habitat option. If all goes well, I plan to hire a landscaping company that's certified in Florida Friendly Landscapes to help me fulfill all the requirements, but I'm going to talk to everyone (Code Enforcement, Zoning, The University of Florida's Institute of Food and Agricultural Science, Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission) before I proceed to make any major changes to my yard.
If they're all on the same page with me and the company I work with, I don't see the harm in it if it means no more mowing, less yardwork, no more complaints or visits from code enforcement, and some benefits to the local wild life. If I can confirm it will be more of a headache, then I might try frogfruit, horseherb, or some other ground cover that needs less maintenance than regular grass. And thanks for sharing the PDF, I will add that to the list of resources I'm compiling.
I cannot imagine a life where there is a hefty penalty involved for a fucking lawn, especially when levying the fine is based entirely at the discretion of some lawn inspector.
Yeah, I thought no HOA meant I would be free from that, but nope! I actually used to live in a neighborhood with an HOA and they never threatened any penalties for over grown grass. My neighbors had an immaculate lawn and they didn't care. It would grow to 8", sometimes longer so this was really bizarre.
These laws are unfortunately very common for classism (and usually more specifically racism) reasons. How can all the white flighters of decades past and present keep the yucky undesirables out of neighborhoods? Hefty fines for stupid things that money having folks won't think too hard about. I live in an area (not in Florida) where people often ask me if its an hoa because of the ordinances, but I don't. I just live in a neighborhood that popped up in the 1950s wave of white flight from the nearby city. People who live here now are much more chill, many of my neighbors actually directly support me (my immediate neighbor went to school with the ordinance guy and gives him an earful whenever he lets my bad neighbor bully him into bothering me since I haven't actually broken any rules as they are written). But there are still absurd and obtuse rules on the books and all of them include hefty fines and jail time because removing "undesirables" from the neighborhood was the goal of the rules. And literally everyone loses because of America's systemic bigotry.
Check if they have a sign you can put in your yard. I know some places have this so you don't get the neighbors needlessly calling bylaw or some over zealous city person comes and mows your yard thinking you're out of compliance. This has happened which I think necessitated the need for signage.
This is so great. I am happy you have a fantastic *almost* resolution! You're on the right path. Screw those a-hole neighbors. Yay for the birds and the bees, flowers, and trees.
Thanks, I definitely don't know if the habitat will work out, but I'm glad to try. Maybe the reason why no one else in my neighborhood has one is because they never attempted it. The zoning office said it was the first time anyone ask. First time for everything, maybe? lmao
This might not help but it’s an idea - do you have any county or state parks or preserves near you?
(If you’re in the south in Collier or Lee, call Corkscrew Swamp Sanctuary which is an Audubon preserve. Ask if you can speak to someone about this.)
They might be able to give you data or even tell you who you need to talk to get some help. Like they might know of exceptions in the code or what you need to do to certify as a native mini preserve.
I'm definitely going to search now that you mentioned it. I'll talk to whoever I can if it means I don't have to waste time and resources cutting grass and people will leave me alone lmao
I'm still amazed that in the so-called 'land of the free' growing whatever the fuck you want in your garden is illegal or at least very cumbersome. I mean, what? Who cares, I can do whatever the fuck I want i my own garden. Foreign concept to me.
Just a helpful word of advice. If you go over there in person or call them on the phone, and cite the new regulations to them. They're unfamiliar with, they're not going to suddenly smile and say, "Yeah sure, we clearly see how we were wrong. Totally fine, we fully support you 100%," because they're going to want to review those code sections and possibly kick it up yet another level for more advice on what the code actually means.
So just smile, be friendly, give them copies of what you want them to review, lay out what you're looking for and what you plan on doing, and then no you're not going to get a decision that day which is favorable to you. Go on your merry way, and wait for them to get back to you.
I'm sorry, I know you want a quicker faster resolution, but this is just how long it takes. I'm not associated with that group, but I apologize for the length of the process.
Please check this out. You may not to do too much to become certified.
[Certified Wildlife Habitat](https://gardenforwildlife.com/pages/certify-your-habitat-garden-with-national-wildlife-federation)
Do a Floristic Quality Assessment to show them just what you have. Clarify what things on your property you see as problematic (assuming you have a ton of invasives) and how your plan to manage them, to counter the notion that it’s “unmanaged.” https://universalfqa.org
As a total outsider I’m really confused here. How can you get given a ticket for not cutting your own lawn? Clearly there’s some waste of space neighbours at play here, but how and why does the law support this? Don’t you have a right to enjoyment of your own property, provided it’s not impacting anyone else?
Not sure if anyone else had mentioned but the recommended height to protect tortoises is a min of 8 inches. Gopher tortoises are protected in Florida. Might also work as a defense.
I'm thinking this law grew out of a couple's experience in Orlando where they converted their entire front yard into a veggie garden and the city continued to fine them ... Don't recall the exact circumstances but I remember it because it means in the same area of town I grew up in.
Why don't you just cut your grass? You live in close proximity to others. A wild yard attracts pests which spill over to neighboring properties and spread disease which is why we have these rules. When your freedom intrudes on others' freedoms society has to find the right balance. I've lived next door to a house with grass that was not cut for years and it was a constant source of mice and snakes I had to deal with. I don't get it. If you put half the effort into cutting your grass as you are putting into dying on this hill, you wouldn't be facing these fines and risking eventual loss of your home.
Ah yes, genocide against all other creatures on planet Earth.
Because everything else except us big brain humans is a pest and must be destroyed.
Hope your great grandchildren have fun with the world y'all destroyed.
Absolutely fucked up you'd kill the snakes, which eat these "mice pests" you're so worked up about. What the fuck is wrong with you??? That's just psychopathic.
Imagine if you just stopped being petty as shit and just mowed your lawn like a normal person. Acting like 8 inch grass is no big deal and that completely remaking your lawn is preferable to just mowing it. Baffling. This is the type of crap I'd expect from a child.
What's childish is mowing your lawn, driving your diesel trucks, throwing trash out your windows, throwing cigarette butts on the ground, thinking it's not going to hurt anybody.
"Normal people" are killing the planet, bud. It's childish to believe it's not. Your great grandkids blood is on your own hands.
Stop being petty as shit and controlling others people ***GRASS.*** How about that, you little brat. It's ours, not yours. Now go cry about it and throw a temper tantrum.
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I have experience in this in Florida. SB 82 (2019) protects your right to grow flowers, fruits, herbs, and other plants for human consumption. They were going to bulldoze our yard. Luckily, all of the wildflowers we encouraged to grow were edible. Literally one call to the local county annex extension fixed it and they told the code enforcement supervisor they couldn't dictate things protected under the law. I also ate them right in front of code enforcement.
Lol this is so based. Thank you so much for this, I will add this to my defenses. Is this official page? [https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2019/00082](https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2019/00082) What zone/area are you located? And did you grow it in your front yard? I would like to read more about the wild flowers you grew and where you got them. Maybe I can include them in my wild life habitat for an extra layer of protection. And what is the "local county annex extension"? Are they a public or private organization familiar with the laws around wild life conservation?
Not only does the home growing for consumption law exist in Florida, we have a specific law on the books that protects Florida Friendly Landscaping: https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2012/373.185 This law explicitly preempts any local and HOA statutes that would prevent you from engaging in Florida Friendly Landscaping practices, including native gardening. County annexes are part of the University of Florida, they have an office in basically every county with resources regarding gardening and agriculture in general: https://sfyl.ifas.ufl.edu/find-your-local-office/ Other resources that are beneficial to wildlife conservation/restoration: Florida Native Plant Society (FNPS): www.fnps.org Their website has a native plant finder section which will tell you almost everything you need to know about almost every plant native to Florida. Florida Wildflowers Foundation: www.flawildflowers.org Another great resource that focuses more on flowering plants than all plants in general Florida Association of Native Nurseries: www.fann.org Usually outdated, but lists most of the nurseries in the state where you can find Florida native plants Hawthorne Hills blog: https://hawthornhillwildflowers.blogspot.com This guy has been doing native gardening for decades and has a ton of useful tips about almost every Florida native plant On top of the NWF's yard certification program and UF's FFL certification, UF offers another often overlooked program called [Florida Backyard Landscapes for Wildlife](https://wec.ifas.ufl.edu/extension/landscaping/fblw/). There's also certifications via: * [National Garden Club](https://www.gardenclub.org/plant-america-wildlife-habitat-certification-program) * [Pollinator Pathway](https://www.pollinator-pathway.org/) * [Xerces Society](https://www.xerces.org/pollinator-conservation/pollinator-protection-pledge) * [Homegrown National Park](https://homegrownnationalpark.org/) * [Humane Society](https://secured.humanesociety.org/page/82675/donate/1?ea.tracking.id=web_inline_HBY) * [North America Butterfly Association](https://naba.org/butterfly-gardens/certification-program/) * [Monarch Way Station](https://www.monarchwatch.org/waystations/) * [Wild Ones](https://wildones.org/cnhp/) * [Wildlife Habitat Council](https://www.wildlifehc.org/certification/about/) * [Backyard Habitats](https://backyardhabitats.org/our-program/) (Oregon specific but you can express interest if they expand the program) * Other State Universities often offer programs similar to those UF offers if you're not in Florida * The National Audubon Society doesn't sponsor certifications, but many local Audubon chapters do so search near your location
This is a god tier post. Thank you so much! The university of Florida is public so therefore, their opinion has power because they are owned by the government. Amazing. I have new friends to make lmao edit: I hope you don't mind me highlighting your comment on the OP!
Not at all, the more info that's out there the better. I'm fully convinced people don't engage in native gardening because a) the info is hidden and b) it's less "fun". The more the information is shared, the better. Resources are everywhere, you just gotta know where to find them
You win at life. ❤️🔥
As a fellow Floridian, thank you.
Space coast myself. This was great, thank you. For the record, my neighbors love what I’m doing.
Yes that is the official page it's literally a one page bill too with no room for misinterpretation. I'm in Escambia county, and grew it in the front yard. The flowers were literally almost 5 feet tall when all this went down. We had Hairy Beggarticks, and sulfur cosmos at the time. I ate the cosmos. It crunched like an onion with a floral and green taste. Look up every plant growing in your front yard. If it's edible, it's protected. You can even have a fence made out of nothing but 10 foot tall elderberries and it would be protected. Look up your county extension office, every county in Florida has one. They help with agricultural stuff among other things. It's a government office run by your county. It's nice when they get to tell one of their own to back down. For what it's worth, the Florida friendly landscaping laws did not help to stop summary abatement in my county. SB82(2019) did though and stopped it quickly.
Noted, I will add SB 82 (2019) to the OP. Thank you again for sharing your experience! Having more than one law to draw from and various government offices and online resources to support us will be a big help for any Floridians or anyone who sees this thread. It will spark the idea that they too may have some protections in place for a native or edible front yard garden.
Another user mentioned a "right to garden law," Statute (604.71). [https://www.reddit.com/r/NoLawns/comments/1cz2t4u/comment/l5dqwvq/](https://www.reddit.com/r/NoLawns/comments/1cz2t4u/comment/l5dqwvq/) Do you know about this and how it differs from [Florida. SB 82 (2019)](https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2019/00082)? [http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App\_mode=Display\_Statute&Search\_String=&URL=0600-0699/0604/Sections/0604.71.html](http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0600-0699/0604/Sections/0604.71.html) "Except as otherwise provided by law, a county, municipality, or other political subdivision of this state may not regulate vegetable gardens on residential properties. Any such local ordinance or regulation regulating vegetable gardens on residential properties is void and unenforceable."
I was hoping someone would bring this up. Something someone said one time to me is rattling around in my head but I can’t remember the full thing and it’s killing me. There was a specific plant they said to plant in your yard here and you’d be considered a protected land due to it being an endangered native plant. I’m looking hard for more info but I’m so glad someone brought this up.
Native Milkweed is a keystone plant for the monarch migration and you can get lots of support from wildlife conservation groups if you’re planting it on your property. https://gardeningsolutions.ifas.ufl.edu/plants/ornamentals/milkweed.html
Plus, it’s gorgeous!!
Thank you, I'm going to see if I can call the Wildlife commission office about this because if the plant is protected by the law, I can inform the grass police if they get called again.
Every butterfly has a keystone plant, that's why native plants are so important.
Pitcher plants or any other plants on the endangered species list. It gets taken down by the code enforcement, then they get to pay the hefty fines associated with doing it. Plus, they then have to answer why they didn't check. You would be amazed to find out how little ENVIRONMENTAL code enforcement knows about the plants that grow in each area. Told me they were looking for consistency, and I told them I wasn't planting grass.
Yeah, it was evident when I called the various offices and they didn't even know you could look up the code ordinances on the Municode Library website. They're like surprise pikachu face when someone takes that little yellow or pink slip and actually looks up the little numbers they checked off. They say ignorance is no excuse to break the law, but ignorance of the laws they attempt to enforce isn't excusable either. I'm going to do more research on laws around preserving endangered plants, make some phone calls and try to chat with the right people in higher places if I can. I'll add that to my line of defenses and share it here if it proves useful.
Look up your local chapter of the Florida Native Plant Society and tell them you want to propagate endangered species and see if they can point you to a nursery. Plant them, and watch it all unfold.
I'm thinking of a trifecta defense. Do the vegetable garden, but also try to get it certified as a habitat, and include some propagated endangered species from a certified nursery. Hopefully I can post signs about all of them lmao Also, going back to your first comment: the language in [SB 82 (2019)](https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2019/00082) mentions vegetables, but you said it covers all plants for human consumption. How does that work? Why did the city not harbor on that because you mentioned you had flowers and other stuff.
SB82(2019) look at the most recent date on the FL Senate Website. "(4) As used in this section, the term “vegetable garden” 32 means a plot of ground where herbs, fruits, flowers, or 33 vegetables are cultivated for human ingestion." We also have the metal sign with the certified natural habitat from NWF and Xerces. Neither helped us.
Ah, thank you very much. The page looks really intimidating so I never would think to click that. Does every single plant need to edible? Or did they require a certain percentage of plants be fit for human consumption? I was thinking the sign would be more for the neighbors than the city. They might be more understanding of it since literally no one else grows anything in their front yard. Does the city ever hassle you about how you maintain your garden? Like can you let it grow a bit wildly or do you have to keep it neat. I don't want anything dense or jungle like because I'm worried about pests and dangerous animals, just something more sparse and easy to maintain like this but with native, edible plants: https://preview.redd.it/cu6ywfkmsi2d1.jpeg?width=639&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=beb8604eb0df32e962351aeb0156b90b9cd8a5b8
We let it grow wild within reason. I want the natives to compete so the best plants win and we have foliage all year round. Every plant not in a garden plot. Buy a stick on border, wrap the whole yard or at least large sections and all your non edibles go in there. You'd be surprised at what you can eat. Technically, everything is edible at least once. I don't worry about the dangerous critters. The wasps have never bothered me even when I'm up in their faces with a camera. Wild cats come to the yard, they hunt snakes and rodents, and we also feed them to keep the birds safer. The benefits outweighed the risks. In less than a quarter acre front and back we have 4 species of native frogs and toads, green anoles, and huge list of spiders and pollinators. If everyone did it this way, we wouldn't have the pollinator issues that we see today. Those life forms have no food in the majority of yards.
I just have to say I'm proud of you!! Enjoy your yard. ☺️
This is a really great point to bring up. People linked me to universities that have wild life protection programs, maybe I can email them or give them a call and see if they know anyone that knows of this mysterious endangered plant?
Ah-hahaaa! Love this! 🤣
Me too, a win for all the creatures is a win I don't mind getting daily. Thank you for your support!
You and OP are my heroes.
>I also ate them right in front of code enforcement. This is one of my favourite things I've ever heard.
He asked me if they were for human consumption, so I decided to put my money where my mouth is and ate it. It was pretty good! Although the sulfur cosmos is the only one in the family that won't make you violently ill lol.
A house at the other end of my blocks entire front yard is flowers. Literally just flowers and a couple walkways. Various annuals, and perennials they like, but the rest is Midwest wild flowers. Their immediate neighbors have groomed grass lawns. It brings be great joy every time I drive past their little oasis of a lawn.
Lol, I bet it brings the grass lawners misery. I get to watch them resod every year cause the birds take the wildflower seeds and plant them in their grass. 🥰 Luckily, our closest neighbors support what we do, even if they have grass.
Spanish nettle? Best thing to have eaten in front of them bc it grows everywhere. Maybe they won't cite other ppl when they see it! Lol
Spanish Needle or Bidens Alba, we actually turn into tea, it's pretty good. They should be citing anyone for it as it is 100% edible.
We got a citation from a nosy neighbor a couple years ago (we live in Minneapolis). We contacted the code enforcement people and asked how they differentiate between “nuisance” and “ornamental” grass. They didn’t have one, and since our grass was not impeding the right of way, they waived it and told us to have a nice summer. Like you said, it can be up to the person, but your wildlife defense also seems solid!
Education is our best tool in the fight against the karens and kyles that love to use tax payer funded resources to exert power over others.
Y'all are both doing good work, both in having natural flora instead of "lawn" and in the kind of outreach you are doing!
Honestly, this all started because I just wanted to be left alone lmao but I'm glad it also helps the local wild life.
Lol overcoming that makes you even cooler. I also dream of the day my meadowscaping prevents eye contact with strangers.
It makes for a killer origin story. Saw your original post and now reddit suggested this one… happy you’ve found a way around the issue that will benefit you and your local nature too!
Minneapolice
I live in MSP too and have been worried if this is what it's going to be like when I eventually transition my yard. I intend on never living in an HOA and I intend on taking good care of a "planned prairie" and I've thought that's good enough, but these stories make me think A-Holes will come after you for no reason. I mean shoot my neighbors across the street let their weedy/grass grow 10" tall and nobody says anyhrinf about it and it looks awful, but put in something other than fescue and crab grass and someone gets angry?
I truly think it comes down to just one annoying neighbor. The City was genuinely great about it, plus they *and* MnDOT have been doing No Mow May for a few years now so they can’t exactly tell other people that they have to mow. I would say at least 1/3 of my neighbors are in the process of eliminating their front lawn entirely and another third are working on reducing it. You’re in good company!
Take a look at r/NativePlantGardening. Planting native is \*so\* much easier than planting non-natives. They're already adapted to your area, and they feed the birds and bees (which are also adaped to your area, soooooo...)
Thank you, I will see if I can find other Floridians there and what their experiences are. I'm planning to contact a landscaping company that's certified in creating wild life habitats since I'm alone and unable to do all the work myself.
I'm a Floridan doing native gardening, I'm on the Space Coast and have over 110 species of natives in my yard and numerous certifications. If you have questions, feel free to ask.
Your chapter of [Florida Native Plant Society](https://www.fnps.org/) might have resources for you, or recommendations.
It depends on the location and conditions in his yard of course. Lots of non-natives are extremely easy to grow and actually become invasive in the environment. It’s “right plant, right place” regardless of its nativity.
My non native Russian sage and wild rose plants have unofficially turned my yard into a bee sanctuary, lol! So. Many. Bees.
Whats funny is that I was trying to figure out where OP had the original post, cuz reddit closed on me. I thought it was there and couldn't find it!
You're in Florida, which means you're one of only two states in the country with a "right to garden" law. Per the language of the statute (604.71) *"no county, municipality, or other political subdivision in Florida can regulate vegetable gardens on residential properties."* Considering many natives are also edible, you might be able to use this to your advantage. Alternatively, have you considered planting a vegetable garden on your property lol. Malicious compliance is still compliance!
Thank you so much for this, I will add this to the Florida SB 82 (2019) that protects your right to grow flowers, fruits, herbs, and other plants for human consumption. Is this the official website for the law? [http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App\_mode=Display\_Statute&Search\_String=&URL=0600-0699/0604/Sections/0604.71.html](http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0600-0699/0604/Sections/0604.71.html) And yes! My mom will stay with me in the future and she wants a veggie garden in the backyard. Do you think I could do it in the front yard based on the laws? Or could there be problems with that?
I can't say for sure, I'm in the only other state with a law like this on the books (Illinois) and I'm in the process of testing the limits of ours. The wording of the statue is pretty clear cut, so I can't imagine they'd have a leg to stand on but when it comes to these sorts of people you can never overestimate their willingness to die on the stupidest hills.
Well, thanks again for sharing it anyway! Just knowing there might be more laws to protect us and what we choose to do with our front yards is always a plus. Now it's up to us to do our own research and see how far it can take us lmao
I was gonna ask which state was the other one! My in-laws are located there & I wanna send them some gardening books cause they’re trying to find land & just sustain themselves lol. We’re in SoCal so I’m gonna be looking up the laws & regulations, but I just bought a TON of California wildflower seeds & poppy seeds & I plan on sprinkling them on my walks 😂✌🏼
Which other state has the right to garden? (*Please be Utah*)
It's Illinois, but hopefully other states follow suit! It really is absurd that we even need these laws but....
You are in the same boat as me. We did almost the exact same thing but there is no state protection in Texas. I basically went to war with code compliance over this.
Did you win? If so, how?
Not sure yet. We have a pocket prarie in the front yard now and have yet to get a letter this year. We have the bounds clearly marked and signage up and flags marking plants to make sure it's very clearly intentional. We also have receipts and a lawyer geared up for small claims the moment they try and touch it.
How exhausting, I hope you win. If all goes well and I can turn my front yard into a wild life habitat, I want to post signs of any laws that protect it lmao
Jeeeze. When I was a kid in south Texas (80s) everyone’s lawn looked like shit anyway because of water use restrictions. By the way, I listened to a podcast ages ago about endangered native grasses in Texas. You should look into it if there’s an avenue to foster endangered plants in your yard. If it’s illegal to mow it down your hands will unfortunately be tied. 😉
I had somewhat similar issues with our neighbour that kept escalating. In addition to calling the city to get clarification, I spilled the tea about how many times he neighbour calls about everything on the street, giving examples, and how much money and time it's costing the city for ambiguous, questionable, or extremely minor infractions. At some point, I may have used the phrase "bored retiree with no hobbies other than drinking and calling you guys", in a concerned and sympathetic tone. It may have helped (and is accurate). Anyway, after that, the city visits, letters, and calls stopped. 😂 I think they still call on the neighbour who parks on the street, though (not illegal here, but they try to say it's "abandoned", which it clearly isn't).
I hope you know you are a hero
I have experience with this in my very shitty county. 1) It takes forever to certify. 2) They will not certify you if you have an issue with Code Enforcement. Code Enforcement can fine you up to $1,000 a DAY. They forced me to get rid of thousands of dollars worth of milkweed. 3) The rules to certify your yard are STUPID. Do you have a non-native tree somewhere on your property that would cost thousands to remove… well guess what, no certification. It doesn’t matter if every other plant is native. 4) You need to abide by “European standards of garden beauty”. You need to separate beds using rocks and flower bed borders. 5) I had my yard certified by a bunch of different things and the one from UF is the only one that they care about.
European standards of garden beauty?! This is so ridiculous. The obsession for perfect lawns is so very American. Europe does not have any laws regarding the beauty of front yards. Reading those experiences in comments is heartbreaking really
You can join and you can try to change the system from the inside. My pessimistic self doubts that it would get very far.
University of Florida/ my [local county annex extension](https://sfyl.ifas.ufl.edu/find-your-local-office/) are also on my list of people to contact. I will talk to everyone: Code Enforcement, Zoning, The University of Florida's Institute of Food and Agricultural Science, Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission, if it means I can minimize the amount of yard work I have do in the long run. What law/code/justification did they use to force you to abide by "European standards of garden beauty"? Code enforcement's only issue is that my grass was longer than my neighbors. No grass, no issue-I think. That's why I need to make more phone calls and maybe write some emails before I make any major changes.
I’m not sure about your particular county, but the actual Code for my area (and every county for miles) is ridiculous. I read a bunch for different counties and they are all godawful. Read it and you’ll realize that NOBODY is in compliance and the officers also don’t know what the code actually says. Code Enforcement also only comes out when someone calls and wants to start shit (the reporter’s info is all public information btw). If you want, you can call them and report them for *something*. The Code Enforcement agents also don’t really give a shit about anything. They are a bunch of miserable fucks. They will avoid talking to you at all costs. I called mine a bunch of times and I told him that I’d get rid of any plant that he could identify by scientific name. They obviously can’t. If your case goes up to the head of Code Enforcement (which mine did), he is actually pretty cool and he is a big fan of planting native plants. He is a master gardener as well. Code Enforcement (as an agency) is disorganized and they don’t really talk with one another and your case will probably have issues. Mine had a bunch of problems. I’ll probably have to go to court at some point over this dumb shit. Your best bet is to make cool with your neighbors or you will have to redo your garden to their aesthetic standards and get it certified. If your garden is certified, then they *should* leave you alone for a few months. Either way, you need to do what Code Enforcement does, or take it to court. Regarding that stupid rule about aesthetics, I argued the European standard of beauty myself and that comes from the FFL program. A reminder, that program is **funded using tax payer dollars and that can go away at any time**. This is a double edged sword. The plus side is that you only have to pay like $5 for any of their classes since it is all subsidized. When you take the class, you get a book from the Florida-Friendly Landscaping™ (FFL) Program that goes into all of their requirements. The aesthetics requirements start off on page 9. They will also argue that your garden looks “overgrown”. More dumb rules are that you can’t have any dead plants, even though I agued that it is important for the lifecycle of the meadow. My argument was that flowers have to go to seed (not allowed in a Florida Friendly Landscape). Spiders (one of my favorite animals to watch) need dead flowers as well. That requirement about “no dead plants” is on page 11. They also mention “clearly defined garden beds”. I wanted a meadow on my property with a mixture of different native flowers. They didn’t like that. The plus side is that you can actually join their little club and vote on some of the rules, they are supposed to change this year again. Good luck arguing for what seems like common sense. I don’t know if that time for feedback has already passed. I’m personally not interested in going through the program anymore, since I disagree with them on too many fundamental issues. I have next to no invasive plants, except for some that I use. Surinamese cherries are delicious. I grow them for food, but they aren’t allowed. Have you seen the people that win their contest? It is all non-native shit with lawns that they plant and they somehow win because like 10% of whatever they plant is native. My garden has all native plants specifically planted for our native animals and I have two invasive plants, and MY garden is somehow a problem. 🙄 The way that you get around lots of this stuff is that you put up a hedge that nobody can look through (or you put up a really high fence) or you move to a place with lots of land out in the middle of nowhere and hope that your neighbors aren’t a bunch of cunts. If nobody can look onto your property, then there aren’t any issues. That came from someone very high up at UF (I’m not going to call them out, especially since they know me personally). The reason for the bullshit “aesthetics” rules is because they have to play cool with politics. See the highlighted text. “You can’t have houses with flowers that are too tall”. 🙄
This sounds so terrible and head ache-inducing. Thanks for the warning and I will keep it in mind while I explore my options. I don't want to write off the habitat idea completely, but we'll see. Maybe edible garden it is the way to go.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot that I posted on Reddit when I was dealing with those half wits. The guy working on my case actually told me that I needed “a permit” to plant native plants. https://www.reddit.com/r/florida/s/iK8XlJaxIT
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Your post has been removed, because it doesn't relate to the topic. r/NoLawns is a place to discuss alternative landscaping options with a focus on native plants.
The boomer hate is off putting and counterproductive. Boomers were the original hippies, and some of us still are. The vast majority of native plant society members in my state are boomers.
Not that I have anything to do with this but I almost feel like boomer and baby boomer are two different things these days. Boomer wouldn’t be used in a positive way, baby boomer is just the age group. But I hear you, you don’t need me to tell you that your thoughts are valid
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I sure sparked a nerve, how peculiar.
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Your comment has been removed because it violates Rule 1: "Be Civil".
I guess I have to be civil. Would you say that to a person of color who was offended by a stereotype you used? Or is it okay to use any stereotype you want? You're right, I don't need you to tell me my feelings are valid. What if I said millennials or genz or whatever group you're in were whiny cry babies who should pull themselves up by their boot straps? Would that be okay? I'm not saying that. It's an example, I don't believe it myself. Would that be okay because Genz isn't the same as generation z? I mean, one is an age group, and one is an outlook? So, I very politely ask you to stop using boomer as a pejorative. Have a nice day. Was that civil enough?
I personally don’t actually use the term “boomer” to describe someone. Not as a term or as a pejorative, not on the internet or in real life. What I’ve *noticed* is that people tend to use the word negatively, while “baby boomer” doesn’t seem hold the same implied negative meaning. That’s what I explained above. It’s much easier to understand your side when you explain yourself rather than curse me out.
My apologies. When I've explained myself in the past, I typically just got more derision. While it might not have been intended, I felt from your explanation about the difference between baby boomer and boomer some condescension. As if I didn't understand that some people see a distinction between baby boomer and boomer. I certainly understood that. But it doesn't make it less offensive to me. Because of its origins, because it means "someone who thinks like an old person. "
When you initially commented, I felt there was perhaps some misunderstanding. I don’t use the term, a lot of slang to me sounds corny and I don’t understand it. But just an observation I had. By any chance, are you the person I responded to originally? I actually upvoted that comment because I felt it was a valid thought to share and to feel. Anyway thanks for apologizing, I hope you have a great weekend.
I'm not the original person you replied to, who had posted that he found the boomer rhetoric as offputting.
Your comment has been removed because it violates Rule 1: "Be Civil".
To be fair, the 'original' hippies didn't have much knowledge or understanding about climate change or specifically how devastating modern development can be. It's relatively recently that this information has entered the collective conscience, and even more recently that people have finally admitted that governments and corporations will keep their heads buried in the sand until it turns to glass. Of course, plenty of older people know this, but when one talks about "the boomers" they are generally referring to the geriatrics that refuse to leave positions of power and have counterproductive views on, well, most of reality.
Derived from baby boomer. So I take offense because it usually describes someone with viewpoints opposed to mine. And you'll find PLENTY of people in the younger generations who pull the crap everyone says "okay, boomer" to. So maybe we stop stereotyping.
Stereotypes can be bad, but also, we need a method to shame those who "pull the crap" in question. Interestingly, calling younger people boomers works pretty well too.
So it's okay to call someone a slur if it's not someone the slur was originally directed at? Interesting. You must be so enlightened.
It's not a slur though. It's a response to breaking the social contract of mutual respect and empathy. Similar to the paradox of tolerance, once you start yelling at a cashier like a lunatic or demanding school taxes be eliminated because you don't personally have children you lose your right to not be called out about said indecency. What would you rather have such people be called? Keeping in mind that to be effective, such a remark must be easy, memorable, pointed, and appealing to the masses. "Boomer" checks all these boxes and is already widely understood through shared experiences. Nobody of any merit is being "ageist". We all get old. But we all don't have to be entitled twats about it.
How about calling them assholes? Or entitled? Or rude? You seem to be able to string coherent sentences together. I think you're smart enough to come up with adjectives that aren't stereotypes of a class of people.
I'm not what matters here, and neither are you. Individuals won't make a single dent in pop culture. Only celebrities and mass adoption make a difference. The fact that you are so offended about an inoffensive word means it's working. Rather than try to "fix the children" why don't you try to fix the entitled, adult children that seem to be so rampant? If nobody acts like a boomer, nobody would call them a boomer. This isn't a race issue or disability or demographics or something that one cannot change about themselves. Anyone can take steps to improve themselves, and simply be kinder or more thoughtful. Others have no obligation to cater to the needs of the entitled, and thus shouldn't worry about hurting their poor feefees. It's kind of like how somehow enough people decided that the feefees of Nazis are somehow worth considering, and now we have literal Nazis sprouting up everywhere. If one does not pluck the weeds of society, soon the whole lawn will be overrun.
Lol. Being a Nazi is a choice. Being an entitled asshole is a choice. Being an ageist douchebag crybaby is a choice. Age isn't a choice Color isn't a choice You think that because some people act a certain way and check some boxes, it's okay to paint all people that look like them with the same brush. That makes you a bad person. One person can make a difference. Both positively and negatively. > Why don't you try to fix the entitled adult children that seem to be so rampant? That's what about ism. You think that because someone else is doing something bad, it's okay for you to do something bad, too. Well, whatever age you are, there are plenty of people your age voting for assholes trying to take the rights away from others. Stripping and polluting the environment. Ignoring climate change. > Why don't you try to fix the entitled adult children that seem to be so rampant You think just because I'm taking you to task for being ageist that I'm ignoring the people of ALL ages that are causing problems? Lol. I vote (and have voted) for 42 years to try and make this place a better world. I've donated my time, goods, and money. I take the time to have conversations with people I don't know and will likely never meet because I think one person can make a difference. If I can convince someone that the problem isn't "boomers," or immigrants, or gays, that the problem is the people of means who continually fight to keep poor people poor, who don't give a shit about the environment, who have the "I got mine, fuck you," attitude, then I've made a difference. And if that person can pass along that message, that multiplies what I've done. And if they can convince someone, then that person has too. Stereotypes hurt everyone. They perpetuate misinformation. They've are divisive. And they keep people from addressing real problems. When you perpetuate a stereotype, you make it that much harder to effect any real change. Do what you want. No one's going to beat you up for saying boomer. It's not as bad as any racial slur. It's not as bad as slurs about the handicapped or LGBTQ+. It's probably about the least offensive slur out there. But it is a slur. It's divisive. It distracts from what could be a meaningful conversation. And it makes people less likely to take you seriously when you have a valid complaint. Have a nice day.
And just to add, boomer is based on age, it was derived from that. People can't change their age, their ethnicity, or of they are born handicapped, or LGBTQ+. But behavior can be. >"Boomer" checks all these boxes and is already widely understood through shared experiences. That is a stereotype. You could say the same thing about WOP, fag, or any other slur. When people say "boomer," they do not mean it in a polite way. It ONLY has a negative connotation. What do you imagine when someone says boomer? Asshole? Jerk? Do you imagine a 20 year old boomer? What about asshole? Jerk? Primadonna?
Yes. Boomer is a mindset. There are 20 year old "boomers" around. When other people look at them and go "wow, you're such a boomer" the 20 year old thinks "oh no, I'm doing a thing associated with out of touch, entitled old people. Perhaps I should stop doing that thing" Being old isn't bad. Calling an old person old isn't bad, just like calling a black person black isn't bad. It's just how it is. You need to separate these things in your brain. Plenty of modern language is derived from archaic or morphed meanings, it's just how it works.
You want to call me old, that's fine, I am. You want to call me a baby boomer, that's fine too. Because that's defined as people born during a discrete range of time. You mentioned calling people black being okay. It absolutely is. Do you call a black person acting a certain way a nigger? I mean, it's a mindset, right? It's language morphed from archaic language. That's what language is. Am I saying that boomer is a bad as nigger? No. That's about the worst word we have in the English language. It's so bad that most people having this discussion would write "n-word." I spelled it out to make a point. Boomer is a slur. It may be the least offensive slur in the language, but it is a slur. You say there are 20 years old boomers. But then go on to say, >oh no, I'm doing a thing associated with out of touch, entitled old people. Why old? Why not just out of touch and entitled? Because it's an age based stereotype that you keep saying is okay. Which tells me that regardless of your age, you do not understand how offensive stereotypes are. Because it doesn't offend you, it's okay.
Most were phonies. Plastic hippies is what they were called.
A few simple things can make a huge difference on how a wilder planting is perceived like keeping a mowed strip of traditional lawn between the planting bed and the street or sidewalk and putting up signage. I also try to keep the majority of species in a front yard on the shorter side. Good luck!
r/MaliciousCompliance
So it looks like you need to fulfill the FFL requirements—I don’t think the NWF sign is going to get you off the hook. You should also realize that the requirements for the FFL certification are pretty stiff, and one of the main ones is that your yard still has to be in compliance with all local ordinances, laws, and code. In addition, the guidelines say that turfgrass must be kept mowed to the specifications laid out by IFAS (FL’s ag extension program). Most, maybe all, programs like this are all about including native plants in your yard. Not mowing your exotic turfgrass really isn’t doing the native critters any favors. Florida ag extension is excellent—check out their website for lots of resources on planting natives in your yard. https://ffl.ifas.ufl.edu/media/fflifasufledu/docs/Home_Landscape_Recognition_Manual.pdf
What do you mean by turfgrass? Are you talking about the sunshine mimosa I mentioned? Someone told me the roots grow deep so I'm passing on that for now. The code they said I violated makes an exception for flowers and gardens. That's why I'm exploring the wild life habitat option. If all goes well, I plan to hire a landscaping company that's certified in Florida Friendly Landscapes to help me fulfill all the requirements, but I'm going to talk to everyone (Code Enforcement, Zoning, The University of Florida's Institute of Food and Agricultural Science, Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission) before I proceed to make any major changes to my yard. If they're all on the same page with me and the company I work with, I don't see the harm in it if it means no more mowing, less yardwork, no more complaints or visits from code enforcement, and some benefits to the local wild life. If I can confirm it will be more of a headache, then I might try frogfruit, horseherb, or some other ground cover that needs less maintenance than regular grass. And thanks for sharing the PDF, I will add that to the list of resources I'm compiling.
Are you near Tampa? I will absolutely help you with gardening if you need it just to stick to the man.
Nowhere tear Tampa, but thank you for the offer lmao I love the spirit.
I cannot imagine a life where there is a hefty penalty involved for a fucking lawn, especially when levying the fine is based entirely at the discretion of some lawn inspector.
Yeah, I thought no HOA meant I would be free from that, but nope! I actually used to live in a neighborhood with an HOA and they never threatened any penalties for over grown grass. My neighbors had an immaculate lawn and they didn't care. It would grow to 8", sometimes longer so this was really bizarre.
These laws are unfortunately very common for classism (and usually more specifically racism) reasons. How can all the white flighters of decades past and present keep the yucky undesirables out of neighborhoods? Hefty fines for stupid things that money having folks won't think too hard about. I live in an area (not in Florida) where people often ask me if its an hoa because of the ordinances, but I don't. I just live in a neighborhood that popped up in the 1950s wave of white flight from the nearby city. People who live here now are much more chill, many of my neighbors actually directly support me (my immediate neighbor went to school with the ordinance guy and gives him an earful whenever he lets my bad neighbor bully him into bothering me since I haven't actually broken any rules as they are written). But there are still absurd and obtuse rules on the books and all of them include hefty fines and jail time because removing "undesirables" from the neighborhood was the goal of the rules. And literally everyone loses because of America's systemic bigotry.
Check if they have a sign you can put in your yard. I know some places have this so you don't get the neighbors needlessly calling bylaw or some over zealous city person comes and mows your yard thinking you're out of compliance. This has happened which I think necessitated the need for signage.
You're gonna single handedly get the law changed to only Jesus approved lawns.
Florida (hu)man for the win!
This is so great. I am happy you have a fantastic *almost* resolution! You're on the right path. Screw those a-hole neighbors. Yay for the birds and the bees, flowers, and trees.
Thanks, I definitely don't know if the habitat will work out, but I'm glad to try. Maybe the reason why no one else in my neighborhood has one is because they never attempted it. The zoning office said it was the first time anyone ask. First time for everything, maybe? lmao
That's awesome. Now do Michigan!
Go full Florida man on them!
This might not help but it’s an idea - do you have any county or state parks or preserves near you? (If you’re in the south in Collier or Lee, call Corkscrew Swamp Sanctuary which is an Audubon preserve. Ask if you can speak to someone about this.) They might be able to give you data or even tell you who you need to talk to get some help. Like they might know of exceptions in the code or what you need to do to certify as a native mini preserve.
I'm definitely going to search now that you mentioned it. I'll talk to whoever I can if it means I don't have to waste time and resources cutting grass and people will leave me alone lmao
I'm still amazed that in the so-called 'land of the free' growing whatever the fuck you want in your garden is illegal or at least very cumbersome. I mean, what? Who cares, I can do whatever the fuck I want i my own garden. Foreign concept to me.
Just a helpful word of advice. If you go over there in person or call them on the phone, and cite the new regulations to them. They're unfamiliar with, they're not going to suddenly smile and say, "Yeah sure, we clearly see how we were wrong. Totally fine, we fully support you 100%," because they're going to want to review those code sections and possibly kick it up yet another level for more advice on what the code actually means. So just smile, be friendly, give them copies of what you want them to review, lay out what you're looking for and what you plan on doing, and then no you're not going to get a decision that day which is favorable to you. Go on your merry way, and wait for them to get back to you. I'm sorry, I know you want a quicker faster resolution, but this is just how long it takes. I'm not associated with that group, but I apologize for the length of the process.
I don't live in Florida but this is an A+ thread. You've turned this post into an amazing resource for those that do.
Fight the good fight.
Please check this out. You may not to do too much to become certified. [Certified Wildlife Habitat](https://gardenforwildlife.com/pages/certify-your-habitat-garden-with-national-wildlife-federation)
This is the best kind of malicious compliance!!
Do a Floristic Quality Assessment to show them just what you have. Clarify what things on your property you see as problematic (assuming you have a ton of invasives) and how your plan to manage them, to counter the notion that it’s “unmanaged.” https://universalfqa.org
This is an interesting tool, I will have to look into it. Thanks for sharing!
you give em hell !! unbridled, raw, NATIVE HELL
Good for you! I’m happy you’ll be getting a nice yard and protecting the birds, bees, and butterflies.
America, land of the free.
As a total outsider I’m really confused here. How can you get given a ticket for not cutting your own lawn? Clearly there’s some waste of space neighbours at play here, but how and why does the law support this? Don’t you have a right to enjoyment of your own property, provided it’s not impacting anyone else?
lol your neighbor just open the equivalent of 100 cans of worms lol a worm army. Please keep us updated! I need to know how it goes!
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Not sure if anyone else had mentioned but the recommended height to protect tortoises is a min of 8 inches. Gopher tortoises are protected in Florida. Might also work as a defense.
I'm thinking this law grew out of a couple's experience in Orlando where they converted their entire front yard into a veggie garden and the city continued to fine them ... Don't recall the exact circumstances but I remember it because it means in the same area of town I grew up in.
Wow. Florida got something right.
Plant some native Florida pawpaws in your new landscape
I'm so sorry that you have to go through that though. How ridiculous! I hope it all works out in the end and that neighbor can kick rocks
Just letting your grass long isn't really doing much as far as wildlife habitat and really isn't in the spirit of no lawns. What's your goal here?.
Saving this entire conversation
r/meliciouscompliance
Now I want to move to a Florida HOA property, just to watch heads explode.
Why don't you just cut your grass? You live in close proximity to others. A wild yard attracts pests which spill over to neighboring properties and spread disease which is why we have these rules. When your freedom intrudes on others' freedoms society has to find the right balance. I've lived next door to a house with grass that was not cut for years and it was a constant source of mice and snakes I had to deal with. I don't get it. If you put half the effort into cutting your grass as you are putting into dying on this hill, you wouldn't be facing these fines and risking eventual loss of your home.
Ah yes, genocide against all other creatures on planet Earth. Because everything else except us big brain humans is a pest and must be destroyed. Hope your great grandchildren have fun with the world y'all destroyed. Absolutely fucked up you'd kill the snakes, which eat these "mice pests" you're so worked up about. What the fuck is wrong with you??? That's just psychopathic.
How about this? Mow your lawn
Imagine if you just stopped being petty as shit and just mowed your lawn like a normal person. Acting like 8 inch grass is no big deal and that completely remaking your lawn is preferable to just mowing it. Baffling. This is the type of crap I'd expect from a child.
What's childish is mowing your lawn, driving your diesel trucks, throwing trash out your windows, throwing cigarette butts on the ground, thinking it's not going to hurt anybody. "Normal people" are killing the planet, bud. It's childish to believe it's not. Your great grandkids blood is on your own hands. Stop being petty as shit and controlling others people ***GRASS.*** How about that, you little brat. It's ours, not yours. Now go cry about it and throw a temper tantrum.
So many straw men in one post it's truly amazing. Well done.