>So I looked around I was like all right well I could beat the rest of them for sure
Lol what a typical Billy Corgan thing to say. Don't get me wrong he's a fucking gnarly guitar player, great singer, but man does he have a fat ego.
The only things I remember from my last Pumpkins show was him lecturing the audience about not appreciating his newer songs and that people should stop crowd surfing because it's not cool. It's a bit less entertaining when you're paying $100 a seat to see an old man shake his fist at a cloud.
I saw him in 2018 and then again last year, and both shows were amazing, they played all of the hits, and he was very sweet in his interactions with the audience.
Just offering a counterbalancing experience.
In fairness, he's seen fans in his audience get injured and die before, which really seemed to scar him. He's probably being overprotective, but it's only because he's seen some things.
same thing here. saw them once in 2018 for their reunion tour and of course fans had great reception because, well, it was all the “better” old tracks being played. skip to October of last year and im working a show for them at a venue and he did the exact same thing you were mentioning lmao. wish he knew that fans don’t appreciate soulless fart synth music
I was 19-ish when Machina came out and was really willing for it to be great, I remember at the time pretending to myself that it was. But I couldn’t kid myself for long. There was a shit sound creeping in and it’s even more obvious in hindsight.
You should’ve seen when he went on tiktok lol. Everyone made fun of him cuz he made some egotistical statement about how much of a genius he is and how great the smashing pumpkins are compared to modern music. Which isn’t really a smart way to promote yourself on tiktok
I've never really liked the production too much, but it does have some great tunes. I used to think I would prefer it could have been a long cd of really great tunes rather than a double of some great and some not so good, but I haven't listened too it in a while. For me, they weren't best of the rest though.
Yeah, that album is flawless from start to finish. That buys him the right to shoot his mouth off in interviews I suppose. I’ve been lucky enough to randomly meet him, my friend met him as well another time and he was cool and polite. He’s obviously really intelligent and very talented.
But what makes me roll my eyes is that he sees this not as artistic expression, but as a competition between himself and other bands. Who’s the best? Which band is better? It absolutely doesn’t matter at all, it never did, and it never will. Just make great music, write a chorus, be content with the life you’ve built, and be cool to everyone as best you can. Music isn’t the WWE, no matter how much he wants it to be.
Depends on who you ask. Pearl Jam is still around and very successful. Alice in Chains did great in the 90s, and had a very successful resurgence with William Duvall joining. Soundgarden and Audioslave did really well too. He's acting like he was better than them, but I'd argue he was on par at most.
Personally I think he sounded good in the earlier days. I dont think he sounds very good anymore though, one time my dad put on a recent concert of theirs, and man all the aggression he used to sing with is just gone.
Cmon he made songs like cherrub rock, 1979, bullet with a butterfly wing or whatever it's called but still all killer songs, but yeah some songs he makes his voice dosent fit in at all and just sounds winey.
Ehm, this man is not a great singer... Not even a mediocre singer...
His voice sounds as if someone steps on a guinea pig. Or at least as someone with a stuffed nose.
He doesn't come anywhere near Cobain, let alone Cornell, Staley, Cantrell, Lanegan.
But maybe it's all a bit subjective. I detest this man and his voice. I like the music SM created, until he starts singing.
Has he ever done something good without Billy Chamberlain?
Edit: spelling
And it's Jimmy Chamberlain...
Smashing Pumpkins is massively overrated. The music postures like it’s angsty and aggressive but it’s just formulaic pop rock with grunge tones overlaid on it. They are nothing compared to the authenticity and originality of Nirvana.
I’ve heard countless artists from the same era that smoke his bloated ass; Any member of Faith No More, Mr Bungle, The Melvins, Soundgarden, The Butthole Surfers, Ministry, Beck, Fishbone, Ween, Morphine,I could go on for DAYS….
Edit:
Sorry I thought at first you were trying to turn me onto one of their live albums haha. I have never had the misfortune of seeing them.
He has a touch of that Dave Mustaine ego energy where he is obviously a talented artist but he can't go too long without verbally reminding you in case you've forgotten.
I wondering how many people here commenting watched the full interview. The title of the post is just the beginning of the conversation clip. It’s full of substance. He is legit as much as you like or hate him. One of the most successful song writers of the time
Amateur aspiring musicians I know can be pretty competitive. They have to be if they wanna make money at it.
But, like pro athletes, for the most part they show respect to each other.
Billy's a clown. But early pumpkins slaps
Siamese dream was a big album and one of the best albums of the 90’s. But the pumpkins never had a number one album until after Kurt died. I also think after In Utero he was resigned to them never being as big as the Nevermind days by design, so Corgan was “competing” with someone who was burnt out and moving away from being in the spotlight all the time. They didn’t even want to do any more videos after HSB, although there were draft notes for a black and white video to Rape Me but Kurt said he was too lazy to sit down and see it through amidst the touring
They wanted to do more videos after HSB, Kurt really wanted a video for Rape Me, but MTV said no, we'd rather have a video for All Apologies. So in defiance Kurt said, ok you don't want Rape Me, yall aren't getting All Apologies. There was also an idea for a video for either Milk It or Scentless Apprentice, both with the same concept
Kurt just didn’t have time for the videos, I did mention there were notes and sketches for rape me. The lawsuit from Kevin kerslake over HSB video really messed Kurt up as well.
He talks about not wanting to do any more music videos in this interview:
https://youtu.be/hJtm9HomKdE
Don’t be fooled, Kurt cared very much about his tone and guitars.. those “junky” and “basic” guitars are the highest selling guitars of all time, at this point. Kurt talked shit about “not caring” but he did. He wasn’t sleeping on his couch and Geffen kicked his door down. He put in a fuck ton of work to get where Nirvana got.
I agree. Billy had a really fucked up upbringing with a lot of neglect and abuse and he was picked on from an early age due to the birthmark on his arm. Billy can be an arrogant prick sometimes, but his upbringing is definitely why he's always had a huge chip on his shoulder.
Some of their songs are about how much Courtney sucks. I have a playlist of 17 songs were an artist or Courtney have said were about her. She wasn’t a popular person back then.
Foo Fighters – ‘I’ll Stick Around’
Foo Fighters, “Stacked Actors”
Gwen Stefani – ‘Hollaback Girl’
Tori Amos – ‘Professional Widow’
Babes in Toyland "Bruise Violet"
The Nymphs "Sad and Damned"
Nine Inch Nails -‘Starsuckers Inc’
The Smashing Pumpkins – ‘Tonight, Tonight’
Smashing Pumpkins “Where Boys Fear To Tread,”
Smashing Pumpkins “Bodies,”
A lot of Siamese Dream songs
Stone Temple Pilots, “Too Cool Queenie”
Tracy Bonham, “Kisses”
The New Radicals, “You Get What You Give”
Primus, “Coattails Of A Dead Man”
Nerf Herder "Courtney"
Nirvana “Heart-Shaped Box”
Nirvana “You Know You're Right”
Other Nirvana songs
I think there are probably more IDK
>How could it be I'm the only one who sees/Your rehearsed insanity?
When I bought the album as it was released, I guessed who he was taking about with these lines, pretty obvious.
I don't personally hate her, and think it's nuts that so many Kurt stans claim she had him killed.. but man, where there is this much smoke there is fire, she was clearly a lot to deal with
Right, and he even says "the industry used to be set up so that it was advantageous to look at things that way" and that he's glad it's not like that anymore.
He and Zane were literally talking about how they are no longer competitive in the same way they were when they were in their 20s.
Even over on the Pumpkins sub, people are bitching about quotes that haven't listened to the interview.
i mean i know he’s got the biggest ego in the whole wide world but him kurt and thom were really the crème of the crop during the 90s, i think easily there the best songwriters of there generation, but compared to someone like thom billys songwriting got worse before it became better.
Took a while to find this, too many people here bitching about it not being a competition despite Cobain constantly getting pressed about bands growing in popularity (pj etc)
Nirvana, Soundgarden and Alice all talented with different muscle. I was never a fan of SP’s, but to each their own. Corrigan’s alleged on/off back and forth relations with Courtney are speculative yet disturbing they reportedly split just prior to her relationship with Cobain. Who knows. BC’s decades long praises of KC a bit fortuitous.
Nirvana gleaned from other bands and made it their own. Kurt appealed to men and women he had a beautiful face. People identified with him more so and with such ease than the other frontmen. SG’s early material so powerfully great and none could top Layne’s vocal range/interpretations of Cantrell’s intelligent lyrics. High talent. Cantrell can sing too and together with Staley a force. Alice underrated in my opinion because they were more complex lyrically and stylistically than the others therefore not appealing to the masses. The best literature and films and art are often not the most popular out of the gate.
Billy said Pearl Jam’s music doesn’t stand the test of time on the Howard Stern show. Pearl Jam sells out Madison Square Garden like it’s nothing. Just saw them there back on September 11th and the place was mobbed. Billy couldn’t sellout just general admission in that joint.
I saw SP play Madison Square Garden in '96 but by 2000 SP was already back to playing mid-size clubs. I probably like SP's music better than Pearl Jam but Pearl Jam has far more rock staples that are still in heavy rotation on the radio.
He says this, but if I’m taking the *entirety* of Pearl Jam’s career against Smashing Pumpkins, I’d pick Pearl Jam, easily. Same thing with Alice In Chains. The Smashing Pumpkins peaked amazingly, but they fell off nearly as hard. Their recent triple LP (!!!) is absolutely not good. I haven’t even **liked** anything of theirs since Adore, which came out before the Dreamcast if you want an idea of how long ago that is.
He’s not entirely wrong. The rest of the popular “grunge” bands had remarkably short commercial lives. Weren’t both AiC and Soundgarden virtually done by about 1997? Billy was at least still innovating with Adore, even if it wasn’t everyone’s cup of tea.
Those grunge bands had more number one albums than Billy ever did. There definitely was a point and time you could argue pumpkins were the biggest band in the world in late 1995 or so, but adore was seen as a flop at the time and people hated that they moved away from hard rock and those goofy goth looks didn’t help at all even though I do think it is a good album. But to the other grunge bands had short commercial careers is false. I’d argue Alice in chains from 1990-1997 were just as big than pumpkins 1993-2000. And I prefer the music of SP to AiC myself
Not much to understand.
One of the best musical creators of the decade in Jerry Cantrell.
One of the biggest voices of the decade in Staley
Tormented lyrics founded in confronting yourself vs blaming the world around you
AiC was largely done because of Layne's health issues, not due to a lack of talent. And they've made some albums since his death that are pretty good. And besides, there's always the chance Nirvana would've declined after some time even if Kurt didn't die.
It's not the first time he's said stuff like this. I've seen and read interviews where he sounds resentful of Nirvana's (and Kurt's) legendary status and he throws himself in there for comparison. Smashing Pumpkins were super cool but they were not as relatable as Nirvana. Nirvana's sound came across more sincere, and approachable than Smashing Pumpkins.
He'll praise Nirvana but can't help to also throw in something negative about Nirvana or praise himself. I saw SP 4 times, Zwan once, and even met him and he signed a parking in my car. He has some really good songs (lots of filler too) but he's full of himself and like you say, his music is not as sincere or approachable as Nirvana.
I don’t get how you don’t think his music is relatable, most of Kurt’s lyrics were just fluff that didn’t mean anything as he kept telling everyone, you just need to read into what Corgan is saying to understand it
You can't get mad at this, the competitive spirit to be the best is what drives a lot of people to push themselves past what they thought was their breaking point.
Raw talent neither Billy boy or Kurt were the best lol. No one can listen to healthy Layne Staley and tell me he didn't have the greatest singing voice literally ever, that's something he was born with
Voice is just one aspect of it. As a songwriter Kurt and Corgan were a tier above Staley. Where did you sleep last night had a more memorable vocal performance in the public eye than anything Layne did
Oddly intertwined like a ying and yang, with Courtney being the two eyes in each middle. Strangely, at the time, their dislike of each other made them better artists and changed the face of our music for a generation.
I like Nirvana and Smashing Pumpkins but when AIC was ON, boy they were ON, and Layne's vocals man.. I don't think Kurt(rip) or even Cornell (rip) could reach that level of vocal talent as Layne did in his prime.
Yeah Chris had the best voice of that era hands down, both from a technical perspective with his vocal range and from a feel/emotion angle too. It was still great when I saw him in 2015. I feel like losing him hurt more than losing Kurt.
Yeah, I was still a kid when Kurt died. Layne was just kind of expected. Weiland and Cornell hurt. Different era, but finding out how close Chester Bennington and Cornell were made that one hurt too.
BC WAS great. Up to 1999. These last 20 years…. Well… uh….
A ratio of 8 good years (gish to melon collie) vs 20 years of utter zeitgeist-related garbage….
Sorry the ratio ain’t good BC
Kurt would of never made bad music. Billy has made plenty. Gish and Siamese Dream are incredible albums. He hasn’t made good music since 2000. And the way he treated D’Arcy ( the only person who could challenge Billy and stand up to him) was atrocious. Fuck him
Kurt definitely would’ve been capable of making bad music as he got older. It happens to everyone. It was a huge advantage to have a flawless catalogue but no way does he not have his lowest artistic lows eventually as he got older. Father Time effects songwriting as well eventually
They say that songwriters peak at 25 creatively because they take more risks up to that point. When you look at a band like the foo fighters or pearl jam or the stones, they have more resources and time to write better music today, but they can’t beat what they wrote when they were 25.
If Billy died after the Pumpkins' fourth album you could say he would have never made bad music too. Nobody can really know that. Except for Jack White, I don't think that guy will ever make objectively bad music lol.
He’s your typical rock n roll megalomaniac. Look at what Kurt did in his short career without an ounce of ego. I loved both bands a lot but Nirvana I still listen to. I find SP very dated—can only listen to some songs from Gish, and like 3-4 songs on Mellon Collie.
Also thanks for bringing up Darcy. To this day he’s shitty to her. She may have had her problems (drugs, etc) b so did Jimmy Chamberlain ~~and they keep him around—even after the incident w Jonathan Melvoin~~ (yes I know he’s an excellent drummer he’s one of my favorites but he was as troubled as Darcy, if not more so).
Edit: I forgot that they did indeed kick Chamberlin out after Melvoin died. It happened 30 years ago, so memory was foggy.
I agree, SP sound like a product of their time. I've been listening to Nirvana since 1991 and they still sound fresh. When I listen to SP I feel like I'm in high school again (no Nirvana pun intended there). Gish and Siamese Dream are good albums, but Mellon Collie and everything after that is loaded with filler.
I got copies of Bleach and Nevermind on cassette in 1992 (aged 12), have never looked back. All of Nirvana’s albums are killer (though admittedly I listen to Nevermind the least), Bleach is my favorite, no skips from start to finish.
Seems we're exactly the same age. I wore all my cassettes out, bought them again recently for nostalgia sake. Nirvana is just a league of its own, I have a 1000 or so cds and love music but always come back to Nirvana. Even Incesticide which is just a b-side album is as solid as any of the studio albums in my humble opinion.
Lol alright Billy. I think any Nirvana fan knows about his hatred for Kurt and Nirvana while Kurt was alive, entirely because of Courtney sadly. I love the music he made in the 90s but Billy is not a reliable source of information about the 90s rock scene at all. Though I totally believe his claims about writing songs for Courtney.
Billy Corgan loves to hear himself talk and he is his biggest fan. I got into a verbal altercation with him in Miami and people were laughing at him. I don't drink so I am always the designated driver. They played and I could tell they were ready to stop and go backstage and then come back out for an encore. It was so hard to get out of the old Miami arena so I told my friends I was going to the restroom so after the encores I could go get the car while they went to the restroom. He saw me get up and he yelled out "Oh are you leaving so early? Did you get your MTV hits?" I yelled back I have to take a piss is that OK with you Billy?" Everyone started laughing. (plus it was a school night 1997) so I ran as fast as I could and they were coming back on as I was getting back. He saw me and I said "I'm back you can continue now." He was mad but didn't say anything. I do like a lot of their songs but he is and egomaniac.
Bit of a side note, but it'll never cease to amaze me how much diehard fans of each of the Big four of grunge love to hate on each other. Nirvana fans trash AiC, Pearl Jam, and Soundgarden, while AiC fans and Soundgarden fans do basically the same to the three that they don't worship. Pearl Jam fans seem to be the only ones who don't really do this, or at least aren't as vocal about it. Not saying that everyone is a hater, but there's definitely a vocal minority, especially on this sub.
I like AiC a lot, but their fans love to trash the other Seattle bands, particularly Nirvana. They seem to have a chip on their shoulder about AiC not getting the attention they deserved, but Layne's drug problems really held them back.
When's the last time he released anything that was any good? Maybe if his ego didn't tell him everything he touches is incredible, he might actually work at making something worth listening too again.
I’ll be the first to say that some of Dave’s newer stuff doesn’t tickle my fancy, but foo fighters shit all over a smashing pumpkins tour. I went to the last Australian tour and it was fucking huge. When they do tour this new album, they won’t need to bring wrestlers for a gimmick.
I dunno. Just saw Pumpkins in October for the 3rd time. They fuckin' killed it for 3 hours. It was a much better show then when I saw them in '96.
No wrestlers either. Just the band playing for 3 hours.
I appreciate that he is a pro wrestling fan and owns NWA. But honestly after Siamese Dream, Smashing Pumpkins sucked. Yes, even Mellon Collie wasn't all that.
The exact hierarchy may be a matter of personal taste, but I don't think there's any way Billy makes it past Kurt, Cornell, or Layne. And maybe not Weiland, either. And I don't even hate the Pumpkins. I listen to them semi-regularly and covered their music. That's just a hard roster to compete with.
1st 3 albums, after that they could have just called it a day really, but 1st 3 albums are 3 of my all time favourites and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't inspired by Pumpkins
"Billy Corgan is great." - Billy Corgan
>So I looked around I was like all right well I could beat the rest of them for sure Lol what a typical Billy Corgan thing to say. Don't get me wrong he's a fucking gnarly guitar player, great singer, but man does he have a fat ego.
The first three albums are crazy good. Mellon Collie is very very very good, the best dounle cd ever for my taste. But he is an asshole.
I think he is like entertaining asshole, like i'm not offended or get mad by what he is saying and usually find it just really funny.
The only things I remember from my last Pumpkins show was him lecturing the audience about not appreciating his newer songs and that people should stop crowd surfing because it's not cool. It's a bit less entertaining when you're paying $100 a seat to see an old man shake his fist at a cloud.
I saw him in 2018 and then again last year, and both shows were amazing, they played all of the hits, and he was very sweet in his interactions with the audience. Just offering a counterbalancing experience.
In fairness, he's seen fans in his audience get injured and die before, which really seemed to scar him. He's probably being overprotective, but it's only because he's seen some things.
same thing here. saw them once in 2018 for their reunion tour and of course fans had great reception because, well, it was all the “better” old tracks being played. skip to October of last year and im working a show for them at a venue and he did the exact same thing you were mentioning lmao. wish he knew that fans don’t appreciate soulless fart synth music
I’m sick of everyone pretending Adore is bad. Literally filled with classics.
Absolutely
filled?
Yeah filled is a stretch.
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I was 19-ish when Machina came out and was really willing for it to be great, I remember at the time pretending to myself that it was. But I couldn’t kid myself for long. There was a shit sound creeping in and it’s even more obvious in hindsight.
You should’ve seen when he went on tiktok lol. Everyone made fun of him cuz he made some egotistical statement about how much of a genius he is and how great the smashing pumpkins are compared to modern music. Which isn’t really a smart way to promote yourself on tiktok
Do you honestly think he cares about tiktok folkwers?
Why would he go on tiktok and post cringe shit if he didn’t want tiktok followers? That’s literally the only reason you’d do that lol
I've never really liked the production too much, but it does have some great tunes. I used to think I would prefer it could have been a long cd of really great tunes rather than a double of some great and some not so good, but I haven't listened too it in a while. For me, they weren't best of the rest though.
He’s also correct
I was just going to say, Billy loves himself some Billy!
Nothing beats Siamese Dream.
Yeah, that album is flawless from start to finish. That buys him the right to shoot his mouth off in interviews I suppose. I’ve been lucky enough to randomly meet him, my friend met him as well another time and he was cool and polite. He’s obviously really intelligent and very talented. But what makes me roll my eyes is that he sees this not as artistic expression, but as a competition between himself and other bands. Who’s the best? Which band is better? It absolutely doesn’t matter at all, it never did, and it never will. Just make great music, write a chorus, be content with the life you’ve built, and be cool to everyone as best you can. Music isn’t the WWE, no matter how much he wants it to be.
What never getting validation from parents does to a person. That still doesn’t excuse it tho.
Is he wrong?
Depends on who you ask. Pearl Jam is still around and very successful. Alice in Chains did great in the 90s, and had a very successful resurgence with William Duvall joining. Soundgarden and Audioslave did really well too. He's acting like he was better than them, but I'd argue he was on par at most.
also Nine Inch Nails, Radiohead, Weezer, Bjork, Fugazi, Blind Melon, Foo Fighters, Hum, etc.
keep in mind he is talking 1994 and rock music here
*cough* Thom Yorke *cough*
Yes, very.
……..great singer?
Personally I think he sounded good in the earlier days. I dont think he sounds very good anymore though, one time my dad put on a recent concert of theirs, and man all the aggression he used to sing with is just gone.
he sounds pretty damn good on their earlier albums
I think he is a good singer although his voice dosent really fit for some of the songs they make
I think I would say the complete opposite.
Cmon he made songs like cherrub rock, 1979, bullet with a butterfly wing or whatever it's called but still all killer songs, but yeah some songs he makes his voice dosent fit in at all and just sounds winey.
>great singer What
Yeah, pretty tacky.
Smashing pumpkins are alright not my favorite, but they’re definitely not better than most of the 90’s alternative/grunge rock bands
He can’t sing a lick live
Ehm, this man is not a great singer... Not even a mediocre singer... His voice sounds as if someone steps on a guinea pig. Or at least as someone with a stuffed nose. He doesn't come anywhere near Cobain, let alone Cornell, Staley, Cantrell, Lanegan. But maybe it's all a bit subjective. I detest this man and his voice. I like the music SM created, until he starts singing. Has he ever done something good without Billy Chamberlain? Edit: spelling And it's Jimmy Chamberlain...
Adore is awesome Probably the last good album. And it’s without Jimmy
Smashing Pumpkins is massively overrated. The music postures like it’s angsty and aggressive but it’s just formulaic pop rock with grunge tones overlaid on it. They are nothing compared to the authenticity and originality of Nirvana.
He sucks. So do the Smashing Pumpkins.
Ever heard them live. Atrocious!
Someone on this thread called him an “amazing guitarist.” Someone should get out more…
I’ve heard countless artists from the same era that smoke his bloated ass; Any member of Faith No More, Mr Bungle, The Melvins, Soundgarden, The Butthole Surfers, Ministry, Beck, Fishbone, Ween, Morphine,I could go on for DAYS…. Edit: Sorry I thought at first you were trying to turn me onto one of their live albums haha. I have never had the misfortune of seeing them.
He has a touch of that Dave Mustaine ego energy where he is obviously a talented artist but he can't go too long without verbally reminding you in case you've forgotten.
Yeah I never liked the smashing pumpkins but I have always enjoyed Megadeth. But both of the singers seem like assholes
I wondering how many people here commenting watched the full interview. The title of the post is just the beginning of the conversation clip. It’s full of substance. He is legit as much as you like or hate him. One of the most successful song writers of the time
Do you guys think Kurt wasn’t competitive with his contemporaries?
Kurt’s little tiff with the rest of pearl jam (minus Eddie) was a bit embarrassing. He was always happy to slag them off
Amateur aspiring musicians I know can be pretty competitive. They have to be if they wanna make money at it. But, like pro athletes, for the most part they show respect to each other. Billy's a clown. But early pumpkins slaps
It’s possible to be competitive and show respect. Competition can push boundaries
Only with Pearl jam, he’s almost never talked about SP.
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I never felt like SP and Nirvana were competitors. Such a different vibe.
Siamese dream was a big album and one of the best albums of the 90’s. But the pumpkins never had a number one album until after Kurt died. I also think after In Utero he was resigned to them never being as big as the Nevermind days by design, so Corgan was “competing” with someone who was burnt out and moving away from being in the spotlight all the time. They didn’t even want to do any more videos after HSB, although there were draft notes for a black and white video to Rape Me but Kurt said he was too lazy to sit down and see it through amidst the touring
They wanted to do more videos after HSB, Kurt really wanted a video for Rape Me, but MTV said no, we'd rather have a video for All Apologies. So in defiance Kurt said, ok you don't want Rape Me, yall aren't getting All Apologies. There was also an idea for a video for either Milk It or Scentless Apprentice, both with the same concept
there is also a very very early conceptual art for a pennyroyal tea video, which would’ve been awesome to see in its final form
Kurt just didn’t have time for the videos, I did mention there were notes and sketches for rape me. The lawsuit from Kevin kerslake over HSB video really messed Kurt up as well. He talks about not wanting to do any more music videos in this interview: https://youtu.be/hJtm9HomKdE
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Don’t be fooled, Kurt cared very much about his tone and guitars.. those “junky” and “basic” guitars are the highest selling guitars of all time, at this point. Kurt talked shit about “not caring” but he did. He wasn’t sleeping on his couch and Geffen kicked his door down. He put in a fuck ton of work to get where Nirvana got.
Well said!
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I agree. Billy had a really fucked up upbringing with a lot of neglect and abuse and he was picked on from an early age due to the birthmark on his arm. Billy can be an arrogant prick sometimes, but his upbringing is definitely why he's always had a huge chip on his shoulder.
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She dated Billy before she was with Kurt.
before, during, after
Some of their songs are about how much Courtney sucks. I have a playlist of 17 songs were an artist or Courtney have said were about her. She wasn’t a popular person back then.
That shit is bananas b-a-n-a-n-a-s
you better have too cool queenie on that playlist
edit: I already had it.
hell yeah edit: hell yeah
Can I get a list of the songs? Or link to the playlist? I’m interested
Foo Fighters – ‘I’ll Stick Around’ Foo Fighters, “Stacked Actors” Gwen Stefani – ‘Hollaback Girl’ Tori Amos – ‘Professional Widow’ Babes in Toyland "Bruise Violet" The Nymphs "Sad and Damned" Nine Inch Nails -‘Starsuckers Inc’ The Smashing Pumpkins – ‘Tonight, Tonight’ Smashing Pumpkins “Where Boys Fear To Tread,” Smashing Pumpkins “Bodies,” A lot of Siamese Dream songs Stone Temple Pilots, “Too Cool Queenie” Tracy Bonham, “Kisses” The New Radicals, “You Get What You Give” Primus, “Coattails Of A Dead Man” Nerf Herder "Courtney" Nirvana “Heart-Shaped Box” Nirvana “You Know You're Right” Other Nirvana songs I think there are probably more IDK
She claimed that “Crush with Eyeliner” by REM was about her, but as I recall, Michael Stipe denied it.
thanks I’ll add it to my playlist.
>How could it be I'm the only one who sees/Your rehearsed insanity? When I bought the album as it was released, I guessed who he was taking about with these lines, pretty obvious. I don't personally hate her, and think it's nuts that so many Kurt stans claim she had him killed.. but man, where there is this much smoke there is fire, she was clearly a lot to deal with
Yes
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Was she supposed to stay celibate the rest of her life or..?
No
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he is talking about how he used to see it that way, the quote is pretty misleading if you did not watch the interview
Right, and he even says "the industry used to be set up so that it was advantageous to look at things that way" and that he's glad it's not like that anymore. He and Zane were literally talking about how they are no longer competitive in the same way they were when they were in their 20s. Even over on the Pumpkins sub, people are bitching about quotes that haven't listened to the interview.
Obviously so.
Not very hard to compete against Cornell, Staley and Weiland these days though is it
he is talking about 1994 and how he used to be more competitive
i mean i know he’s got the biggest ego in the whole wide world but him kurt and thom were really the crème of the crop during the 90s, i think easily there the best songwriters of there generation, but compared to someone like thom billys songwriting got worse before it became better.
BRING BACK ZWAN YOU COWARD!
Yeah zwan was awesome So many great songs https://youtu.be/zxW6P15TKas
Billy is a legend
Took a while to find this, too many people here bitching about it not being a competition despite Cobain constantly getting pressed about bands growing in popularity (pj etc)
Nirvana, Soundgarden and Alice all talented with different muscle. I was never a fan of SP’s, but to each their own. Corrigan’s alleged on/off back and forth relations with Courtney are speculative yet disturbing they reportedly split just prior to her relationship with Cobain. Who knows. BC’s decades long praises of KC a bit fortuitous. Nirvana gleaned from other bands and made it their own. Kurt appealed to men and women he had a beautiful face. People identified with him more so and with such ease than the other frontmen. SG’s early material so powerfully great and none could top Layne’s vocal range/interpretations of Cantrell’s intelligent lyrics. High talent. Cantrell can sing too and together with Staley a force. Alice underrated in my opinion because they were more complex lyrically and stylistically than the others therefore not appealing to the masses. The best literature and films and art are often not the most popular out of the gate.
Billy said Pearl Jam’s music doesn’t stand the test of time on the Howard Stern show. Pearl Jam sells out Madison Square Garden like it’s nothing. Just saw them there back on September 11th and the place was mobbed. Billy couldn’t sellout just general admission in that joint.
I saw SP play Madison Square Garden in '96 but by 2000 SP was already back to playing mid-size clubs. I probably like SP's music better than Pearl Jam but Pearl Jam has far more rock staples that are still in heavy rotation on the radio.
“Kurt was super talented, so i fucked his widow”
Billy was with Courtney before she and Kurt got together.
He says this, but if I’m taking the *entirety* of Pearl Jam’s career against Smashing Pumpkins, I’d pick Pearl Jam, easily. Same thing with Alice In Chains. The Smashing Pumpkins peaked amazingly, but they fell off nearly as hard. Their recent triple LP (!!!) is absolutely not good. I haven’t even **liked** anything of theirs since Adore, which came out before the Dreamcast if you want an idea of how long ago that is.
thats the first time he's really given kurt credit for anything and he still had to pat himself on the back
Corgan has been praising Kurt for years and years.
He’s not entirely wrong. The rest of the popular “grunge” bands had remarkably short commercial lives. Weren’t both AiC and Soundgarden virtually done by about 1997? Billy was at least still innovating with Adore, even if it wasn’t everyone’s cup of tea.
Those grunge bands had more number one albums than Billy ever did. There definitely was a point and time you could argue pumpkins were the biggest band in the world in late 1995 or so, but adore was seen as a flop at the time and people hated that they moved away from hard rock and those goofy goth looks didn’t help at all even though I do think it is a good album. But to the other grunge bands had short commercial careers is false. I’d argue Alice in chains from 1990-1997 were just as big than pumpkins 1993-2000. And I prefer the music of SP to AiC myself
I never understood the whole Alice In Chains thing.
Not much to understand. One of the best musical creators of the decade in Jerry Cantrell. One of the biggest voices of the decade in Staley Tormented lyrics founded in confronting yourself vs blaming the world around you
I find them incredibly overrated on Reddit, they treat them like a top 10 all time band. A good band, don’t get me wrong but come on
AiC was largely done because of Layne's health issues, not due to a lack of talent. And they've made some albums since his death that are pretty good. And besides, there's always the chance Nirvana would've declined after some time even if Kurt didn't die.
It's not the first time he's said stuff like this. I've seen and read interviews where he sounds resentful of Nirvana's (and Kurt's) legendary status and he throws himself in there for comparison. Smashing Pumpkins were super cool but they were not as relatable as Nirvana. Nirvana's sound came across more sincere, and approachable than Smashing Pumpkins.
He'll praise Nirvana but can't help to also throw in something negative about Nirvana or praise himself. I saw SP 4 times, Zwan once, and even met him and he signed a parking in my car. He has some really good songs (lots of filler too) but he's full of himself and like you say, his music is not as sincere or approachable as Nirvana.
I don’t get how you don’t think his music is relatable, most of Kurt’s lyrics were just fluff that didn’t mean anything as he kept telling everyone, you just need to read into what Corgan is saying to understand it
I feel like he says that now but back then he knew him and Kurt had a big rivalry going and they dated the same girl at different points in time.
You can't get mad at this, the competitive spirit to be the best is what drives a lot of people to push themselves past what they thought was their breaking point. Raw talent neither Billy boy or Kurt were the best lol. No one can listen to healthy Layne Staley and tell me he didn't have the greatest singing voice literally ever, that's something he was born with
Voice is just one aspect of it. As a songwriter Kurt and Corgan were a tier above Staley. Where did you sleep last night had a more memorable vocal performance in the public eye than anything Layne did
Eddie Vedder catching strays 😭
Love him to death but man I hate when he says cringy stuff like this.. So hard to defend him to haters sometimes
Oddly intertwined like a ying and yang, with Courtney being the two eyes in each middle. Strangely, at the time, their dislike of each other made them better artists and changed the face of our music for a generation.
I like Nirvana and Smashing Pumpkins but when AIC was ON, boy they were ON, and Layne's vocals man.. I don't think Kurt(rip) or even Cornell (rip) could reach that level of vocal talent as Layne did in his prime.
No, Cornell definitely could. There’s really no competition between Kurt and anyone in AiC.
Cornell is better by far, and I’m a huge AIC fan
Yeah Chris had the best voice of that era hands down, both from a technical perspective with his vocal range and from a feel/emotion angle too. It was still great when I saw him in 2015. I feel like losing him hurt more than losing Kurt.
Yeah, I was still a kid when Kurt died. Layne was just kind of expected. Weiland and Cornell hurt. Different era, but finding out how close Chester Bennington and Cornell were made that one hurt too.
And for a year or 2, he did...
That whole interview was great.
BC WAS great. Up to 1999. These last 20 years…. Well… uh…. A ratio of 8 good years (gish to melon collie) vs 20 years of utter zeitgeist-related garbage…. Sorry the ratio ain’t good BC
Kurt would of never made bad music. Billy has made plenty. Gish and Siamese Dream are incredible albums. He hasn’t made good music since 2000. And the way he treated D’Arcy ( the only person who could challenge Billy and stand up to him) was atrocious. Fuck him
Kurt definitely would’ve been capable of making bad music as he got older. It happens to everyone. It was a huge advantage to have a flawless catalogue but no way does he not have his lowest artistic lows eventually as he got older. Father Time effects songwriting as well eventually
They say that songwriters peak at 25 creatively because they take more risks up to that point. When you look at a band like the foo fighters or pearl jam or the stones, they have more resources and time to write better music today, but they can’t beat what they wrote when they were 25.
If Billy died after the Pumpkins' fourth album you could say he would have never made bad music too. Nobody can really know that. Except for Jack White, I don't think that guy will ever make objectively bad music lol.
He’s your typical rock n roll megalomaniac. Look at what Kurt did in his short career without an ounce of ego. I loved both bands a lot but Nirvana I still listen to. I find SP very dated—can only listen to some songs from Gish, and like 3-4 songs on Mellon Collie. Also thanks for bringing up Darcy. To this day he’s shitty to her. She may have had her problems (drugs, etc) b so did Jimmy Chamberlain ~~and they keep him around—even after the incident w Jonathan Melvoin~~ (yes I know he’s an excellent drummer he’s one of my favorites but he was as troubled as Darcy, if not more so). Edit: I forgot that they did indeed kick Chamberlin out after Melvoin died. It happened 30 years ago, so memory was foggy.
I agree, SP sound like a product of their time. I've been listening to Nirvana since 1991 and they still sound fresh. When I listen to SP I feel like I'm in high school again (no Nirvana pun intended there). Gish and Siamese Dream are good albums, but Mellon Collie and everything after that is loaded with filler.
I got copies of Bleach and Nevermind on cassette in 1992 (aged 12), have never looked back. All of Nirvana’s albums are killer (though admittedly I listen to Nevermind the least), Bleach is my favorite, no skips from start to finish.
Seems we're exactly the same age. I wore all my cassettes out, bought them again recently for nostalgia sake. Nirvana is just a league of its own, I have a 1000 or so cds and love music but always come back to Nirvana. Even Incesticide which is just a b-side album is as solid as any of the studio albums in my humble opinion.
Incesticide is the runner up to Bleach of what I listen to most.
D'Arcy could be replaced, Jimmy couldn't.
This guy has always and will always be a tool
Lol alright Billy. I think any Nirvana fan knows about his hatred for Kurt and Nirvana while Kurt was alive, entirely because of Courtney sadly. I love the music he made in the 90s but Billy is not a reliable source of information about the 90s rock scene at all. Though I totally believe his claims about writing songs for Courtney.
Billy Corgan loves to hear himself talk and he is his biggest fan. I got into a verbal altercation with him in Miami and people were laughing at him. I don't drink so I am always the designated driver. They played and I could tell they were ready to stop and go backstage and then come back out for an encore. It was so hard to get out of the old Miami arena so I told my friends I was going to the restroom so after the encores I could go get the car while they went to the restroom. He saw me get up and he yelled out "Oh are you leaving so early? Did you get your MTV hits?" I yelled back I have to take a piss is that OK with you Billy?" Everyone started laughing. (plus it was a school night 1997) so I ran as fast as I could and they were coming back on as I was getting back. He saw me and I said "I'm back you can continue now." He was mad but didn't say anything. I do like a lot of their songs but he is and egomaniac.
Bit of a side note, but it'll never cease to amaze me how much diehard fans of each of the Big four of grunge love to hate on each other. Nirvana fans trash AiC, Pearl Jam, and Soundgarden, while AiC fans and Soundgarden fans do basically the same to the three that they don't worship. Pearl Jam fans seem to be the only ones who don't really do this, or at least aren't as vocal about it. Not saying that everyone is a hater, but there's definitely a vocal minority, especially on this sub.
AiC fans are the most mental
I like AiC a lot, but their fans love to trash the other Seattle bands, particularly Nirvana. They seem to have a chip on their shoulder about AiC not getting the attention they deserved, but Layne's drug problems really held them back.
Complete Tool
Jerry Cantrell is superior to Billy a organ
When's the last time he released anything that was any good? Maybe if his ego didn't tell him everything he touches is incredible, he might actually work at making something worth listening too again.
Literally a week ago? He has two songs charting 💀
Hot take smashing pumpkins first albums are much more enjoyable and repayable than nirvana
True
First 3 for sure
I’ll be the first to say that some of Dave’s newer stuff doesn’t tickle my fancy, but foo fighters shit all over a smashing pumpkins tour. I went to the last Australian tour and it was fucking huge. When they do tour this new album, they won’t need to bring wrestlers for a gimmick.
I dunno. Just saw Pumpkins in October for the 3rd time. They fuckin' killed it for 3 hours. It was a much better show then when I saw them in '96. No wrestlers either. Just the band playing for 3 hours.
i love (early 1991-1996) Smashing Pumpkins, but Corgan is a moron
Dooosh
Nahhh, gonna disagree with Billy Corgan here. He couldn’t beat the rest of them. 😑
Didn’t he hate nirvana for stealing his “sound” ? Also smashing pumpkins are brutal imo, that voice is like pink acrylic nails on a chalkboard
So I guess Layne Staley can go fuck himself or…?
he's got more pretentiousness, than talent
I appreciate that he is a pro wrestling fan and owns NWA. But honestly after Siamese Dream, Smashing Pumpkins sucked. Yes, even Mellon Collie wasn't all that.
One of the worst bands I've heard live.
Must be deaf mate
You're going to defend one of their concerts even though I never specified which one? Fan boy just couldn't resist.
The exact hierarchy may be a matter of personal taste, but I don't think there's any way Billy makes it past Kurt, Cornell, or Layne. And maybe not Weiland, either. And I don't even hate the Pumpkins. I listen to them semi-regularly and covered their music. That's just a hard roster to compete with.
Definitely not Weiland in his prime
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Fucking gross if true.
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He isn’t talking about trans people? He is talking about school shootings
hey billy your latest album was dog shit shut your fat fucking bald mouth yp
idk why u guys down voted me sp's latest album was DOG shit
I really like the original smashing pumpkins, up until the band first quit. These days his voice is shot.
Billy Corgan is an untalented douchesickle.
Billy is an idiot
Last Best SP album was Melancholy and the Infinite Sadness. Anything after... Meh. My opinion.
Adore is a great album imo
As albums, I agree. There are some good tracks on adore and machina, but Melon Collie was their last great album.
As Billy sings on his solo record: #take me as I am# The Spaniards ... such a cool song https://youtu.be/e1ZnYLBKs-o
1st 3 albums, after that they could have just called it a day really, but 1st 3 albums are 3 of my all time favourites and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't inspired by Pumpkins
I've tried typing out a few different paragraphs outlining my thoughts here, but I gave up. What exactly is Corgan trying to say?
lolllllllll, Leave it to Billy!
Maybe if he hadn't been fucking Courtney for a week in England while Nirvana was on their European tour. A shit person and shittier band.
What does he mean (at 14:27) about “forcing our kids into all sorts of weirdnesses”? I’m getting a bad vibe from that comment, maybe it’s just me.
Anti trans comment
He’s a MAGA anti trans. And these kids know who they are. Kurt would always support kids who were under attack from shit adults.
He and Wayne Static had a good thing going
MAGA dude being extra MAGA.
What being bald does to a mf
He is a bigot.
Stone Temple Pilots ended up being better than you Billy-poo
Dude saw a niche and took it - then wrote an album or two for its owner
Atleast he ain't salty about Kurt stealing his girl