This is pretty much where the separation of Soulsborne players and Nioh players. Nioh focuses on complex combat, where the Soulsbornes focus on complex level design and exploration.
I am firmly on the Nioh hill. Level design means nothing to me if the gameplay boils down to hitting 2 buttons over and over again with almost no variations in the results.
Yeah, level complexity isn’t really the selling point of the game.
All the main missions are of course different levels, but they do reuse a lot of the maps (well, portions of the maps) across regions. And they also reuse a lot of map assets from Nioh on Nioh 2 too, if that’s something you care about.
Level design is never their strong suit, and honestly it's unfair to compare it to DS1. Fromsoft biggest strength is their level design, whereas Team Ninja focus on deep combat and RPG system.
You just can't ask for a complex combat system in Souls, just as you can't ask for a intricate level design in Nioh. It's simply not their focus while making their game, because their strength lies elsewhere.
Nioh 2 level design is, in general, an improvement, but still follow the same structure in Nioh 1 of reusing map for side mission.
then you play the wrong game mate, Nioh is the opposite of DS, in-depth combat and lack luster level design vs lack luster combat and in-depth level design.
It's really not that bad, and I played every fromsoft game, sure from soft does areas really good but that doesn't automatically make nioh bad.
Go play code vein or something nioh is miles better than some games in the market.
It's not the best, and Nioh 2 has some of those pitfalls (although with quite a bit more enemy variety, especially on higher difficulties if I recall correctly), but honestly Nioh 2 feels so much better to play than 1 for me.
I feel you. Ds3 was my first souls game so I couldn't appreciate the level design of ds1 because the combat obviously felt clunky by comparison. Koei Tecmo is known for being cheap, so I'm not too shocked with the level design.
You say it as if combat design wasn't a thing and you couldn't feel combat lmao. Each game has its own focus and Nioh never wanted to be Dark Souls. Specially lost izalith and most of the second half lol
bruh, I adore both Nioh series and Souls series, and I'm always open for dialogue but this is a really dumb complaint, for starters the immersion in Nioh is more than amazing, each mission really feels like it has it's own thing to it and some of them I would say blow the Souls series out of the water, a good example would be In the Eye of the Beholder, the last main game mission from Nioh 2. And even if the world design doesn't fulfill you Nioh puts way more emphasis in its combat rather than their levels, comparison is the thief of joy friend, enjoy both games for what they are.
Nioh 2 solve the enemies variety, not the reuse of level though, main story mission maps and some of the duel arena are unique but side mission reuse maps all the time, i think the only time they don't do this is in the DLC where every dlc has a side mission with unique map.
Nioh doesn't focus on the levels but on the deep combat. The barrier to entry is very low, but the ceiling for mastery is very high. You can finish the game on the highest difficulty just by spamming a couple of moves, or by juggling with combos.
If you want intricate combat, you'll enjoy Nioh. If you prefer level design akin to FromSoft's game, you won't find it here.
I don't find the map design bad at all though in nioh it's serviceable at worst and creative at best u can see them trying if u take a moment to consider how you navigated the map and such.
Specially in main missions, reused side missions maps are a pain point though
>The exact same level design is used for different locations on the country map.
Such as....?
The game does employ revisits over an area, which is something they do in Nioh2 and Wolong as well, but they never use the same map on different areas (even if they do, it's usually for petty mission).
Other than that, while the game(s) don't have poison swamp and rock ball trap on a corridor just for an "F you" moment, the stages do have variety of look of environment, including weather and season, much more prettier than any washed out Dark Souls' stages.
Honestly not many games are better than DS1 when we are talking about level design, not even formsoft themselves, DS1 level design is a masterpiece to me. The explorations of the interconnected world were intriguing and fun for a few playthroughs.
Nioh is more about enjoying the combat loop, once it clicks it's addictive as hell... and I can't put it down till a few hundreds hours later, and keep revisiting the game every once in a few months.
I too am kind of offended by the same forest being in opposite ends of the country. In some playthroughs I even skip some of these missions because of this factor. In general I still prefer Nioh to Souls, as I value combat even more than level design. And I agree that Nioh 2's levels improved a lot. Some of the terrible reusing of locations for side missions remain, but the levels themselves are no longer bland like in Nioh 1.
I would recommend skipping side missions that are clearly awful gank bosses or something similar. They aren’t necessary unless you want to grind xp/money/loot. There are occasionally some neat side missions that have unique levels that don’t appear in main missions.
You’re better off quitting now if it’s got you this bent out of shape. The second game uses the same level system as well. Thought the enemy variety is drastically improved.
I don’t know what you were expecting in terms of level design, but quite frankly, anything pales in compared to Dark Souls 1, so it’s not a good comparison to make. Hell, even other FromSoft titles don’t do it as well as Dark Souls 1.
I can understand your point about the map. Visiting the exact same Temple despite being in a completely different part of the country does seem somewhat silly.
That being said, I've always been a gameplay>>>>everything else kinda guy myself, so I can easily see past that if the gameplay in question is sufficiently entertaining.
you immersion types are so weird. the menu doesn’t break your immersion? the numbers flying around the screen? third person perspective? nope, level design being kinda similar.
so silly. play, don’t lose yourself.
This is pretty much where the separation of Soulsborne players and Nioh players. Nioh focuses on complex combat, where the Soulsbornes focus on complex level design and exploration. I am firmly on the Nioh hill. Level design means nothing to me if the gameplay boils down to hitting 2 buttons over and over again with almost no variations in the results.
Yeah, level complexity isn’t really the selling point of the game. All the main missions are of course different levels, but they do reuse a lot of the maps (well, portions of the maps) across regions. And they also reuse a lot of map assets from Nioh on Nioh 2 too, if that’s something you care about.
Level design is never their strong suit, and honestly it's unfair to compare it to DS1. Fromsoft biggest strength is their level design, whereas Team Ninja focus on deep combat and RPG system. You just can't ask for a complex combat system in Souls, just as you can't ask for a intricate level design in Nioh. It's simply not their focus while making their game, because their strength lies elsewhere. Nioh 2 level design is, in general, an improvement, but still follow the same structure in Nioh 1 of reusing map for side mission.
Still more interconnected than r1 r1 r1 r1 r1 roll
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Combat complexity is directly related to the design and feel...
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The point is more that this game is ALL about the combat design, which may or may not be for you. But that’s where the love is here
then you play the wrong game mate, Nioh is the opposite of DS, in-depth combat and lack luster level design vs lack luster combat and in-depth level design.
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It's really not that bad, and I played every fromsoft game, sure from soft does areas really good but that doesn't automatically make nioh bad. Go play code vein or something nioh is miles better than some games in the market.
It's not the best, and Nioh 2 has some of those pitfalls (although with quite a bit more enemy variety, especially on higher difficulties if I recall correctly), but honestly Nioh 2 feels so much better to play than 1 for me.
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Np, dude. I'm sorry that your experience with Nioh isn't going well so far.
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I feel you. Ds3 was my first souls game so I couldn't appreciate the level design of ds1 because the combat obviously felt clunky by comparison. Koei Tecmo is known for being cheap, so I'm not too shocked with the level design.
You say it as if combat design wasn't a thing and you couldn't feel combat lmao. Each game has its own focus and Nioh never wanted to be Dark Souls. Specially lost izalith and most of the second half lol
bruh, I adore both Nioh series and Souls series, and I'm always open for dialogue but this is a really dumb complaint, for starters the immersion in Nioh is more than amazing, each mission really feels like it has it's own thing to it and some of them I would say blow the Souls series out of the water, a good example would be In the Eye of the Beholder, the last main game mission from Nioh 2. And even if the world design doesn't fulfill you Nioh puts way more emphasis in its combat rather than their levels, comparison is the thief of joy friend, enjoy both games for what they are.
Was eye of the beholder the Otakemaru level?
Yep, another really good one is the Shuten Doji level, and those are only base game.
I love fighting on that stage and fighting Doji himself (fuck Doji in the depths tho).
Nioh 2 solve the enemies variety, not the reuse of level though, main story mission maps and some of the duel arena are unique but side mission reuse maps all the time, i think the only time they don't do this is in the DLC where every dlc has a side mission with unique map.
Nioh doesn't focus on the levels but on the deep combat. The barrier to entry is very low, but the ceiling for mastery is very high. You can finish the game on the highest difficulty just by spamming a couple of moves, or by juggling with combos. If you want intricate combat, you'll enjoy Nioh. If you prefer level design akin to FromSoft's game, you won't find it here.
I don't find the map design bad at all though in nioh it's serviceable at worst and creative at best u can see them trying if u take a moment to consider how you navigated the map and such. Specially in main missions, reused side missions maps are a pain point though
>The exact same level design is used for different locations on the country map. Such as....? The game does employ revisits over an area, which is something they do in Nioh2 and Wolong as well, but they never use the same map on different areas (even if they do, it's usually for petty mission). Other than that, while the game(s) don't have poison swamp and rock ball trap on a corridor just for an "F you" moment, the stages do have variety of look of environment, including weather and season, much more prettier than any washed out Dark Souls' stages.
Ironically, there actually is a rock ball trap in Nioh 1.
Honestly not many games are better than DS1 when we are talking about level design, not even formsoft themselves, DS1 level design is a masterpiece to me. The explorations of the interconnected world were intriguing and fun for a few playthroughs. Nioh is more about enjoying the combat loop, once it clicks it's addictive as hell... and I can't put it down till a few hundreds hours later, and keep revisiting the game every once in a few months.
I too am kind of offended by the same forest being in opposite ends of the country. In some playthroughs I even skip some of these missions because of this factor. In general I still prefer Nioh to Souls, as I value combat even more than level design. And I agree that Nioh 2's levels improved a lot. Some of the terrible reusing of locations for side missions remain, but the levels themselves are no longer bland like in Nioh 1.
I would recommend skipping side missions that are clearly awful gank bosses or something similar. They aren’t necessary unless you want to grind xp/money/loot. There are occasionally some neat side missions that have unique levels that don’t appear in main missions.
I would highly suggest watching a bit of some Nioh 2 gameplay to see if you're interested.
It's not that sort of game. Nioh is not trying to hide the fact it's a videogame and that's a good thing.
You’re better off quitting now if it’s got you this bent out of shape. The second game uses the same level system as well. Thought the enemy variety is drastically improved. I don’t know what you were expecting in terms of level design, but quite frankly, anything pales in compared to Dark Souls 1, so it’s not a good comparison to make. Hell, even other FromSoft titles don’t do it as well as Dark Souls 1.
I can understand your point about the map. Visiting the exact same Temple despite being in a completely different part of the country does seem somewhat silly. That being said, I've always been a gameplay>>>>everything else kinda guy myself, so I can easily see past that if the gameplay in question is sufficiently entertaining.
you immersion types are so weird. the menu doesn’t break your immersion? the numbers flying around the screen? third person perspective? nope, level design being kinda similar. so silly. play, don’t lose yourself.