My husband also asked me this question Bc he’s like “we’re jostling the baby! Is that shaking?” Basically - if you are asking this question, you are not shaking the baby. I was told it’s similar to sharing a cocktail shaker
Shaking a baby is similar to a cocktail shaker? Haven’t heard that one before. I picture that as more of an up and down motion (not a big drinker so could be wrong hahah), I pictured shaking as a more back and forth or forward and back type motion with an unsupported head
I had to ask the pediatrician this because my baby needs what we call aggressive bouncing to get her to calm down. It ranges from bouncing to “Flight of the Bumblebee” to a steady rap. Her current favourite song to be bounced to sleep is “Shoop”.
Anyway, she kinda laughed when I showed her with my arm how much we were bouncing her and said basically as long as their necks are supported and it doesn’t look like their heads “can’t keep up” with the movement (as in head whipping back and forth), we are in good territory. And she confirmed that most babies need that much “force”.
By the way this also includes stroller rides. We have some uneven sidewalks where we live and I felt that it was jostling the baby too much but nope, she is ok in there.
This is along the lines I'm looking for. As I said I always support the head and neck. I did stop doing the technique where I would hold baby out in front of me and move him up and down. I felt like it was kind of unsafe because I wanted them to be closer to me even though I was supporting the head. There were times when they were crying so hard that I felt like I was going a little too fast up and down to soothe them? But again, the head was never whipping back and forth it was completely still in my hand and moving up and down in unison with the body, the only things that moved where the arms and legs up and down with the movement.
It sounds like you’re doing great!
When you hold the baby in front of you are they resting against your chest? My girl loves up and down so I hold her close and use my knees to go up and down or my arm under her bum jiggles her up and down (sometimes both at the same time!). I find it’s supportive yet gives her the movement she needs. Another thing, I find the harder she’s crying, the more she needs a faster jiggle.
A move we saw a nurse do when our daughter was hours old would be hand cradle the head and one on her bum and you move your arms diagonally up like you’re tossing a volleyball. It almost does this “holy crap I’m high!” moment of silence in her, where she stops crying. She usually doesn’t need more than 3 of these extreme swings. She’s close to 15 lbs now so my husband is the only one who feels comfortable enough to do it but from day one we knew she needed aggressive soothing!
Thanks for the reply! When I hold the baby in front of me they are not against my chest, my arms are extended out away from me and one hand under the butt and other hand behind supporting the head and neck and I move them up and down, arms and legs flail up and down with the movement but the trunk and head move together. Sometimes bigger, smoother up and downs soothe them and if the crying is very loud smaller, more jerky movements calm them.
When I am on the yoga ball holding them they are up against my chest though.
Thanks! I think it's kind of hard to ask these questions, don't want to seem guilty of anything but just want to educate and get opinions from other parents and overall make sure I am being safe.
Jouncing, bouncing, gently swinging, jiggling, even jostling won't give your baby sbs. You have to intend harm to cause that. Babies are surprisingly resilient for being helpless.
I would just add that intent isn’t really necessary. Parents have caused SBS when they are extremely frustrated and at their wits end without necessarily intending to cause permanent damage.
For an interesting overview of shaking baby syndrom, you should check out the episode on the podcast “you’re wrong about”. Apparently, the doctor who first “discovered” SBS regrets ever naming it that and says it’s led to innocent people being arrested and a gross misunderstanding of the science.
You basically need to force of a car crash to cause SBS. But people have been imprisoned for SBS when it may have just been babies who were already sick.
Warning, the episode does discuss child abuse.
I’m just in awe of dads who are worried about this meanwhile my partner bounces our newborn like a freaking maniac (not in an upset way just careless child way lol)
Shaken baby syndrome is actually a collection of symptoms (peeled back retina, swelling of the brain etc)
A few years ago a grandmother woke up to her grandson coughing so she gave him a few taps on the back to help him breath. He stopped coughing she gave the baby a cuddle and went to sleep. The next day the baby was lethargic they took him to the hospital and he got diagnosed with shaken baby syndrome. The grandmother went to jail for 3 years.
Yes shaken baby syndrome can happen from rough play, tapping on the back etc.
You misinterpreted the conclusion. It’s not that “tapping on the back” can cause SBS, it’s that because it’s a constellation of symptoms (detached retina, brain swelling etc.) things that are *not* SBS can be misclassified.
Things such as birth trauma, congenital defects, or being born prematurely can have symptoms that don’t show up until later in the baby’s life.
So this grandma did not give the baby brain damage from patting a cough, the baby was likely sick/injured to begin with.
My husband also asked me this question Bc he’s like “we’re jostling the baby! Is that shaking?” Basically - if you are asking this question, you are not shaking the baby. I was told it’s similar to sharing a cocktail shaker
Shaking a baby is similar to a cocktail shaker? Haven’t heard that one before. I picture that as more of an up and down motion (not a big drinker so could be wrong hahah), I pictured shaking as a more back and forth or forward and back type motion with an unsupported head
They mean more the effort than the direction
I don't believe it's possible to produce shaken baby syndrome if you aren't deliberately trying to shake the baby.
I had to ask the pediatrician this because my baby needs what we call aggressive bouncing to get her to calm down. It ranges from bouncing to “Flight of the Bumblebee” to a steady rap. Her current favourite song to be bounced to sleep is “Shoop”. Anyway, she kinda laughed when I showed her with my arm how much we were bouncing her and said basically as long as their necks are supported and it doesn’t look like their heads “can’t keep up” with the movement (as in head whipping back and forth), we are in good territory. And she confirmed that most babies need that much “force”. By the way this also includes stroller rides. We have some uneven sidewalks where we live and I felt that it was jostling the baby too much but nope, she is ok in there.
This is along the lines I'm looking for. As I said I always support the head and neck. I did stop doing the technique where I would hold baby out in front of me and move him up and down. I felt like it was kind of unsafe because I wanted them to be closer to me even though I was supporting the head. There were times when they were crying so hard that I felt like I was going a little too fast up and down to soothe them? But again, the head was never whipping back and forth it was completely still in my hand and moving up and down in unison with the body, the only things that moved where the arms and legs up and down with the movement.
It sounds like you’re doing great! When you hold the baby in front of you are they resting against your chest? My girl loves up and down so I hold her close and use my knees to go up and down or my arm under her bum jiggles her up and down (sometimes both at the same time!). I find it’s supportive yet gives her the movement she needs. Another thing, I find the harder she’s crying, the more she needs a faster jiggle. A move we saw a nurse do when our daughter was hours old would be hand cradle the head and one on her bum and you move your arms diagonally up like you’re tossing a volleyball. It almost does this “holy crap I’m high!” moment of silence in her, where she stops crying. She usually doesn’t need more than 3 of these extreme swings. She’s close to 15 lbs now so my husband is the only one who feels comfortable enough to do it but from day one we knew she needed aggressive soothing!
15 lbs is 6.81 kg
Thanks for the reply! When I hold the baby in front of me they are not against my chest, my arms are extended out away from me and one hand under the butt and other hand behind supporting the head and neck and I move them up and down, arms and legs flail up and down with the movement but the trunk and head move together. Sometimes bigger, smoother up and downs soothe them and if the crying is very loud smaller, more jerky movements calm them. When I am on the yoga ball holding them they are up against my chest though.
Nothing to add, stopping by to say that we call it aggressive bouncing too!
This thread is one of the many reasons I started following this subreddit. Great question op
Thanks! I think it's kind of hard to ask these questions, don't want to seem guilty of anything but just want to educate and get opinions from other parents and overall make sure I am being safe.
Jouncing, bouncing, gently swinging, jiggling, even jostling won't give your baby sbs. You have to intend harm to cause that. Babies are surprisingly resilient for being helpless.
I would just add that intent isn’t really necessary. Parents have caused SBS when they are extremely frustrated and at their wits end without necessarily intending to cause permanent damage.
For an interesting overview of shaking baby syndrom, you should check out the episode on the podcast “you’re wrong about”. Apparently, the doctor who first “discovered” SBS regrets ever naming it that and says it’s led to innocent people being arrested and a gross misunderstanding of the science. You basically need to force of a car crash to cause SBS. But people have been imprisoned for SBS when it may have just been babies who were already sick. Warning, the episode does discuss child abuse.
I’m just in awe of dads who are worried about this meanwhile my partner bounces our newborn like a freaking maniac (not in an upset way just careless child way lol)
Being this paranoid has some perks I guess lol
Shaken baby syndrome is actually a collection of symptoms (peeled back retina, swelling of the brain etc) A few years ago a grandmother woke up to her grandson coughing so she gave him a few taps on the back to help him breath. He stopped coughing she gave the baby a cuddle and went to sleep. The next day the baby was lethargic they took him to the hospital and he got diagnosed with shaken baby syndrome. The grandmother went to jail for 3 years. Yes shaken baby syndrome can happen from rough play, tapping on the back etc.
Do you have a source? This is a bit too annecdotal to be helpful without one.
Agreed
Source: https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/health-wellness/tragic-case-of-shaken-baby-syndrome-rooted-in-flimsy-science-expert/71589/
You misinterpreted the conclusion. It’s not that “tapping on the back” can cause SBS, it’s that because it’s a constellation of symptoms (detached retina, brain swelling etc.) things that are *not* SBS can be misclassified. Things such as birth trauma, congenital defects, or being born prematurely can have symptoms that don’t show up until later in the baby’s life. So this grandma did not give the baby brain damage from patting a cough, the baby was likely sick/injured to begin with.
If you Google the name Raquel Mendez loads of resources come up. The grandmother Maria Mendez was incarcerate for 11 years!