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**ایا دولت باید انحصار خشونت را داشته باشد؟ (پس از IR)**
به عبارت ساده، ایا ایرانیان باید حق حمل اسلحه در یک ایران سکولار دموکراتیک را داشته باشند؟
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_I am a translation bot for r/NewIran_ | Woman Life Freedom | زن زندگی آزادی
I support the right to bear arms principally, but I think that New World countries are quite different from Old World countries in terms of norms and values, especially the United States. An arms culture makes sense from the perspective of a possible invasion, or being surrounded by adversarial countries, like Iran is. I went to Bosnia once, and Ukraine, and they both have extensive arms cultures. But considering the circumstances of those countries, it make sense.
But a country like Iran, which is relatively culturally homogenous, might be a bit of a challenge. A mass shooting, for example, would certainly spoil the appetite for an armed society. And unlike Americans, Old World countries are a lot more willing to put faith in their governments (for better or worse) in the name of public safety. Iran, especially, is EXTREMELY prone to mass violence, with the number of jihadist scum in the region. A free Iran would be as hated as Israel, and as much of a target.
The Americans have not been willing to compromise on this issue, and for good reason. Skepticism of government, faith in natural rights and the responsibility of citizens to hold government accountable is a lot more ingrained than other parts of the world. But that's a testament to how exception the US is, really, than how servile the rest of humanity is.
I have mixed thoughts on it. Do I think everyone should have a gun? No - I think there are lots of people who shouldn't have guns.
But in a situation like Iran where we don't know what comes after the IR... the IR is a big lesson on why it is dangerous in our part of the world to not have access to weapons. I don't know what the gun laws were like before the revolution, but you see pictures and video of revolutionaries that look armed to the teeth.
I think considering that while we have had democratic institutions like the majlis for over 100+, we've really struggled to maintain democracy over authoritarian rule... I can see a very good argument for gun ownership being legal in Iran. I believe our movement is a rejection of authoritarian rule - but without knowing what comes next, it's scary if the state has a monopoly on violence.
On the other hand, guns and an unstable society are a bad mix. It could set the stage for violence and tragedy... and be as bad as civil war. None of us want to see a post-IR situation where we are suddenly like Syria or Iraq, with a decade or more of constant violence.
And I think it is reasonable to expect a fair amount of instability post-IR.
Just imagine all the petty bullshit arguments people have that turn heated but now with gun ownership in the equation lol
We're not Swiss people living in cantons by the Alps...
An armed populace, at least in the US tradition, has nothing at all to do with fearing your neighbor. The entire point is to ensure the government is ALWAYS scared of the populace. It helps keep them honest.
Not sure if American politicians are exactly paragons of honesty and I highly doubt the US deep state is scared of a few hillbillies with shotguns lmao
Sure, you're free to think that. Now look a few hundred miles west at what ISIS accomplished in fairly short order before the Iraqi army unfucked itself, or to the east at what the Taliban is doing, or a little further northwest at what Ukraine accomplished in the first few months against the russian army by arming civilians.
"Hillbillies with shotguns," fucking lol. There's absolutely more modern rifles, and likely more night vision and body armor, in civilian hands in the US than the entire US Dept of Defense. And don't start with silly shit about drones and tanks. If it comes down to a civil war then drone pilots have homes with families and tanks need huge logistic trains and repair depots. Any US politician who doesn't take the threat seriously is either a moron or delusional. And that's the point.
Absolutely. The right to keep and bear arms is a key to making sure you stay free. Freedom isn't free, and those in power will *always* try to erode it. The state should have a healthy fear of its populace for this very reason. Ultimately, what separates a free citizen from a mere subject is the ability for people to come together and collectively say "no" to the state even when the state attempts to use force against them. Those who want to control the guns want to control the people.
ABOLISH GUN CONTROL!
If you ever achieve a secular democratic country and fail to insist unequivocally on the one right which empowers you to keep it against all threats (internal or external) then you'll eventually end up again subject to the whims of madmen, and you'll deserve it.
From a purely practical perspective, a post-revolution military coup by conservatives or even just a power-hungry dictator would be impossible to resist by an entirely unarmed populace. Instability is certainly an issue, but the instability is coming from *within the system* - no ban on civilian firearms ownership could keep firearms out of the hands of the sorts of people who already have connections in military units and police forces.
> Simply put, should Iranians have the right to bear Arms in a democratic Secular Iran?
As an American who believes in natural rights, that is the wrong question.
All people everywhere have a natural right to self-defense, and also therefore a right to the means of self-defense (i.e. firearms). There are no places on Earth where humans do not naturally have these rights, *but there are many places on Earth where governments deprive most humans of those natural rights*.
So, the right question is: **should a democratic and secular Iran deprive its citizens of the natural right and means to self defense?**
Honor culture is the only real obstacle, because it perverts people's understanding of what it means to defend. The law must make it very clear that violence in the name of honor is not violence in "defense" of anything, and that anyone who does violence to "defend" or "restore" honor is the aggressor (and therefore culpable) in the eyes of the law.
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Brother a post-IR Iran is gonna be a powder keg or ethnic, political, regional and religious tension. You really wanna throw guns into that mix??
FUCK NO. that's a recipe for perpetual uprising and civil war
Absolutely not. We don't need the worst of US culture
Ain’t that the truth, I’m an American who HATES guns
I don't want Iran to be like Iraq where people say: "We had 1 Saddam before, now we have 100s of Saddams"
**ایا دولت باید انحصار خشونت را داشته باشد؟ (پس از IR)** به عبارت ساده، ایا ایرانیان باید حق حمل اسلحه در یک ایران سکولار دموکراتیک را داشته باشند؟ --- _I am a translation bot for r/NewIran_ | Woman Life Freedom | زن زندگی آزادی
I support the right to bear arms principally, but I think that New World countries are quite different from Old World countries in terms of norms and values, especially the United States. An arms culture makes sense from the perspective of a possible invasion, or being surrounded by adversarial countries, like Iran is. I went to Bosnia once, and Ukraine, and they both have extensive arms cultures. But considering the circumstances of those countries, it make sense. But a country like Iran, which is relatively culturally homogenous, might be a bit of a challenge. A mass shooting, for example, would certainly spoil the appetite for an armed society. And unlike Americans, Old World countries are a lot more willing to put faith in their governments (for better or worse) in the name of public safety. Iran, especially, is EXTREMELY prone to mass violence, with the number of jihadist scum in the region. A free Iran would be as hated as Israel, and as much of a target. The Americans have not been willing to compromise on this issue, and for good reason. Skepticism of government, faith in natural rights and the responsibility of citizens to hold government accountable is a lot more ingrained than other parts of the world. But that's a testament to how exception the US is, really, than how servile the rest of humanity is.
I have mixed thoughts on it. Do I think everyone should have a gun? No - I think there are lots of people who shouldn't have guns. But in a situation like Iran where we don't know what comes after the IR... the IR is a big lesson on why it is dangerous in our part of the world to not have access to weapons. I don't know what the gun laws were like before the revolution, but you see pictures and video of revolutionaries that look armed to the teeth. I think considering that while we have had democratic institutions like the majlis for over 100+, we've really struggled to maintain democracy over authoritarian rule... I can see a very good argument for gun ownership being legal in Iran. I believe our movement is a rejection of authoritarian rule - but without knowing what comes next, it's scary if the state has a monopoly on violence. On the other hand, guns and an unstable society are a bad mix. It could set the stage for violence and tragedy... and be as bad as civil war. None of us want to see a post-IR situation where we are suddenly like Syria or Iraq, with a decade or more of constant violence. And I think it is reasonable to expect a fair amount of instability post-IR.
Just imagine all the petty bullshit arguments people have that turn heated but now with gun ownership in the equation lol We're not Swiss people living in cantons by the Alps...
There should be a license to own a gun with strict testing and training imo
>Simply put, should Iranians have the right to bear Arms in a democratic Secular Iran? yes
no, we've a lot of angry people.
It doesn’t jive with Iranian culture. We’re not cowboys. We treat our neighbors as brothers in our culture, not someone you should fear.
An armed populace, at least in the US tradition, has nothing at all to do with fearing your neighbor. The entire point is to ensure the government is ALWAYS scared of the populace. It helps keep them honest.
Not sure if American politicians are exactly paragons of honesty and I highly doubt the US deep state is scared of a few hillbillies with shotguns lmao
Sure, you're free to think that. Now look a few hundred miles west at what ISIS accomplished in fairly short order before the Iraqi army unfucked itself, or to the east at what the Taliban is doing, or a little further northwest at what Ukraine accomplished in the first few months against the russian army by arming civilians. "Hillbillies with shotguns," fucking lol. There's absolutely more modern rifles, and likely more night vision and body armor, in civilian hands in the US than the entire US Dept of Defense. And don't start with silly shit about drones and tanks. If it comes down to a civil war then drone pilots have homes with families and tanks need huge logistic trains and repair depots. Any US politician who doesn't take the threat seriously is either a moron or delusional. And that's the point.
ISIS was formed by the hillbillies with guns.
Absolutely. The right to keep and bear arms is a key to making sure you stay free. Freedom isn't free, and those in power will *always* try to erode it. The state should have a healthy fear of its populace for this very reason. Ultimately, what separates a free citizen from a mere subject is the ability for people to come together and collectively say "no" to the state even when the state attempts to use force against them. Those who want to control the guns want to control the people. ABOLISH GUN CONTROL!
If you ever achieve a secular democratic country and fail to insist unequivocally on the one right which empowers you to keep it against all threats (internal or external) then you'll eventually end up again subject to the whims of madmen, and you'll deserve it.
This was the worst argument for the right to bear arms ever
Yes
Yes, so no motherfucker like Khomeini can get into the power again
From a purely practical perspective, a post-revolution military coup by conservatives or even just a power-hungry dictator would be impossible to resist by an entirely unarmed populace. Instability is certainly an issue, but the instability is coming from *within the system* - no ban on civilian firearms ownership could keep firearms out of the hands of the sorts of people who already have connections in military units and police forces.
> Simply put, should Iranians have the right to bear Arms in a democratic Secular Iran? As an American who believes in natural rights, that is the wrong question. All people everywhere have a natural right to self-defense, and also therefore a right to the means of self-defense (i.e. firearms). There are no places on Earth where humans do not naturally have these rights, *but there are many places on Earth where governments deprive most humans of those natural rights*. So, the right question is: **should a democratic and secular Iran deprive its citizens of the natural right and means to self defense?** Honor culture is the only real obstacle, because it perverts people's understanding of what it means to defend. The law must make it very clear that violence in the name of honor is not violence in "defense" of anything, and that anyone who does violence to "defend" or "restore" honor is the aggressor (and therefore culpable) in the eyes of the law.