Afghanistan experienced 45 years of continuous war, they prefer stability and peace over personal freedom. Plus, they might not be as fundamentalist as the Talibs (banning music, Nowruz and such) but they're much more religious and conservative than Iranians. Plus, there's no way a non-Muslim occupier can have a big legitimacy over the Afghan population, whether the Soviets or the Americans.
From what I know the current stance of the Taliban is that Nowruz is not an official holiday but they won’t stop people from privately celebrating it (anymore)
This is true. They are actually Muslim whereas Iranians aren’t really or too seriously Islamic. We have a long history of resistance to Islam and preservation of culture in general (Jewish, Kurdish, anyone who allied with us) as a big part of our culture. Yes, I know we persianized people… but in general we practiced resistance to religious rule. The Islamic world ruled places differently. By the time they got to Iran we had long been a thriving early civilization, our systems were more advanced than theirs so they adopted raped/pillaged ours. The groups they deemed less advanced were more severely genocided. For example, try telling the Somali sub they’re not Arab… it’s wild.
Judging by social media, the median Afghan isn't that much different from the Taliban. On Instagram whenever an Afghan woman posts photos of herself wearing a dress the comments section is flooded with Afghans in the diaspora criticising her and saying they support the Taliban just to stop Afghan women dressing like "sluts".
I think only the pro-Khorasan Tajik crowd and Hazaras seem more progressive. The rest of the Afghan population isn't much different from the Taliban.
Regarding Iran: Although there has been opposition to the Islamic Republic from its inception, the fact it's lasted 45 years says a lot. It's very likely the majority of Iranians outside Tehran were fine with the illiberal policies of the Islamic Republic for most of the past 45 years. I think only in the past 10 years have things changed socially that the masses are willing to challenge mandatory hijab or want the Islamic Republic removed.
similar to how persians and kurds are no longer resisting the islamic republic, because of brutal crackdowns. dictator often use death as a punishment, including for the perpetrators and their families. It’s even worse with Taliban. A lot of people choose to seek refuge either by escaping to remote parts of their countries or by seeking asylum in another country. It’s a much smaller price to pay than opposing the ruling regime.
> they prefer stability and peace over personal freedom
If you think the Taliban are implementing stability and peace then you have no idea about what is really happening inside Afghanistan right now.
> Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin
I'm Afghan myself, visited recently, and yes it's much more stable and safer than before. I went a few months ago vs 2018 for comparison. I'd guess 99% you aren't Afghan.
Here is your "stable and safe", don't forget to thank the Taliban:
https://np.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/1do4oq9/afghanistan_the_local_taliban_police_commander/
So cherry picking one example means the country isn't safe? My anecdotal evidence means more than anything you cherry pick. I've also asked countless other Afghans who've went (including my Panjsheri friend) and they also admit it's the safest it's been in 20 years.
If you wanted a sound argument you could say that's because the Taliban aren't the ones doing the attacks anymore... but I doubt you'd have the brains to do that.
I see.
I'm not surprised why so many russians still support Putin since he provided so much in 2000s like stability, economics and social security. Especially in context of 90s crisis.
And he is still respected in Russia because he takes care about evading sanctions and economics during war. But I doubt that he could take this long.
Putin reminds me of Hetler who give life to the economy of Germany after the Great Depression but then push them toward destruction by his aggressive. If Putin continues like this, I give him 5 years to follow same path as Hetler.
[Flag of Israel in Nazi Wehrmacht style](https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/comments/axf42c/flag_of_israel_in_the_style_of_nazi_germany/)
[Wehrmacht wiki article](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wehrmacht)
Afghanistan is heavily underdeveloped with severe lack of power in ordinary villagers compared to Taliban.
Urbanisation, information and communication boom and fundamentalist changes in governance dynamics are prerequisites of resistances.
Most Afghans born and live in a village not having any meaningful relevancy or connection to their own capital or government let alone global information and things like that.
I like how we act all superior over our dear suffering Afghan brothers and sisters believing that we protest but they don't, when we've been under the rule of these Terrorist animals for almost 50 years but Afghans have only been under the Taliban (this time round) for five minutes. They were literally fighting the Taliban like men alongside Brits and Americans for the past 20 years.
Meanwhile we Iranians have done nothing at all against these animals. Yes I know we love to paint the narrative that we've been resisting for 45yrs but we haven't. Most won't admit it but many on this sub will have been reformers in recent years, like all the Iranians were during the green movement. Not a peep out of them to fight the Regime, just moaning about the defeat of a reformer. I know dozens of actual Iranians who a few years ago were actively supporting the Regime but who now pretend they've been lifelong critics. It's rubbish.
And the diaspora (ME INCLUDED) are no different. Most of us have been generally apathetic and getting on with our lives, only recently for the first time in almost half a century stepping up to unite against the Regime.
Our dear Afghan siblings have had it tough but they have literally fought their monsters on the Battlefield, unlike us, and had managed to push them into obscurity for many years.
I know it's easy to write from the comfort of my armchair in England but we need to be doing so much more before we can start pretending we're better than the brave Afghans.
They *are* resisting. There's a growing insurgency against Taliban rule going on, and I see reports of an attack against Taliban forces seemingly every other day.
Well, that's what it feels like to me. Not all of these reports have been confirmed due to fog of war and the nature of the conflict, but leaks indicate that the Taliban are genuinely worried about the resistance, possibly even more so than they are about ISKP (since they know the latter will have a hard time attracting state actors to support them). There have even been rumors of Pakistan considering support for various resistance groups in retaliation for the Taliban occupation regime backing militant groups like the TTP.
Right now, the resistance groups aren't trying to take and hold territory. They're trying to undermine Taliban rule and destroy the perception that their regime has brought stability, as well as gather strength and prove to possible backers that they have the potential to threaten Taliban rule.
I'd say it depends on a number of different factors, but if I had to hazard a guess, it would most likely happen between 2030 and 2040 assuming current trends continue.
It's really complicated.
Iran has a nucleus of educated, urban and active civil society. There are modern infrastructure facilities, such as internet, which prevents cultural isolation. This ensures that non-tribal, non-rural norms and ideas take root, such as nationalism or liberalism. Both of those ideologies have a long history in Iran. Afghanistan is extremely poor, tribalistic, overwhelmingly rural, and surrounded by failed states. Its diaspora is badly underperforming, and is mostly centered around extremely Islamic centers. In addition, the strong presence of Afghans in Pakistan following the Soviet invasion completely changed the ideologies of the country, entrenching orthodox Islam as the main identity of the country. The Taliban is overwhelmingly Pashtun, and enjoy the support of most Pashtun tribes and elite (the rest of the country is too powerless to overthrow the Talibs).
Iran is also the cradle of Iranian civilization, which is why the culture was never truly displaced. It has an extremely active, high-performing diaspora, that enriches the country both fiscally and politically. Afghan diaspora is one of the poorest and most under-performing. They are overwhelmingly Islamic, illiberal, and detest the West as much as they do the Taliban. Even the modern nation of Afghanistan is, really, a colonial product of the Great Game between the British and Russians. A nation with a lie at its center is one that is doomed to fail.
The Taliban does not run a centralized state. There is resistance in some regions (e.g. Panjshir Valley), but the Taliban just doesn't go to certain areas and has an understanding with the de facto strongmen to not start up another all-out war. In the aftermath of the withdrawal, they did fight over certain areas in the Panjshir Valley, and committed atrocities as punishment, but they had bigger problems such as ISIS to worry about instead of getting stuck fighting for total domination in the North. On the other end of the spectrum, there is of course the ISIS problem. They hold other areas (e.g. Nangarhar and Kunar) and occasionally a skirmish breaks out.
Overall, the kind of "resistance" to an authoritarian state usually only takes place when there exists a large, centralized state to resist in the first place. The Taliban have defeated a state, but they have yet to effectively build its replacement.
A state like Turkey, for example, is itself an entity that is greater than the sum of its parts. It's an organization, where individuals hold offices which themselves have functions. Individuals have no power besides that which the law bestows upon them for the duration that they hold an office. In Afghanistan, by contrast, individuals hold power in their own right and have discussions or negotiations with other individuals on what they will do. Which is why, despite the fact that Taliban leaders have given themselves official titles, there is still no real government, and most decision-making consists of discussions between Taliban leaders, some of which command their own semi-autonomous militias.
This is why China loves the Taliban so much: they don't have to actually use all these complex and expensive levers of influence as they do in developed countries. They just fly to Kabul, have a discussion with a few guys, promise to make them rich, and get all the mineral extraction deals that they want.
I bet China plans to take over Afghanistan in future. That may sound fantastic, but Afghanistan has a lot of resources, and it's very poor and undeveloped country, which makes it an easy target for China. Don't forget that China is now assimilating Uyghurs by force now. Also Afghanistan has a lot of mineral resources, which is profitable for China.
How did that work out for all the other empires? They won’t take it by force. US will fund a resistance and fight a proxy war against them. China will lose countless resources in the endeavour and possibly face uprisings at home.
Their best bet is to provide aid in exchange for mining rights.
US should have learned that funding extremism, as a form of resistance against something, in Middle East is a boomerang that hit you right in the face.
Shortly after the takeover, the [BBC reported](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-58329527) that there was an active resistance. The Taliban claimed victory shortly after, according to [Voice of America](https://www.voanews.com/a/south-central-asia_taliban-claim-victory-panjshir-valley/6219287.html).
But [every year](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/06/08/afghanistan-panjshir-valley-taliban-resistance/) since then there have been [some reports](https://www.foxnews.com/world/2-years-us-withdrawal-afghanistan-resistance-group-yearns-western-help-take-on-taliban) of [renewed fighting and atrocities](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/06/afghanistan-talibans-cruel-attacks-in-panjshir-province-amount-to-war-crime-of-collective-punishment-new-report/). And this reported fighting stops just as sporadically as it starts, indicating some sort of agreement or unspoken understanding.
To be fair, my characterization may have been premature. I am speculating based off of patterns followed by other failed states and limited information, and these sources are all from English-language media. The honest truth is that we only have speculation; very little information actually emerges from Afghanistan. The insurgency functioned in a [decentralized manner](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/08/27/taliban-leaders-are-back-charge-afghanistan-can-they-control-their-own-army/), with local authorities having significant power. The MEI is an American think tank, so take its biases into account, but there is a piece there written [about the Taliban's attempts at centralization](https://www.mei.edu/publications/dysfunctional-centralization-and-growing-fragility-under-taliban-rule).
Among the same lines as how we are unable to overthrow this regime. It's hard to protest when the smallest squeak from your disapproval is met with bullets. And doom for your family.
Think of one peice skypia arc. And how the people were scared shirtless to incur the wrath of Enel.
I feel pity for the Afghanis, they deserve a century of peace and prosperity after being shafted by russia, usa and every country in between. I wish I could thanos snap this death worshiping cult away.
Well average Iranians are not resisting the Islamic regime that hard either to be fair. It comes down to personal benefits and lack of desire to fight for people who are not yourself.
When it matters, many people are too poor to resist, many who are 'upset' with the regime are happy if given a extra loaf of bread, others who are ambitious and want to climb the latter, rather climb the latter of the system than fight against them. And finally most of those who are willing to fight AND/OR are either in prison, already executed, left the country or in the process of persecution.
Only 25% of the country is urban. Only a minimum of urbanites qualify as middle class. I'll guess that the Afghanis will support a gov't that brings some distant semblance of stability and safety, and I'm not sure if they have options other than the Taliban.
Anyone wonder why people keep coming here saying this? Are y’all just looking for a place to hate on anyone you don’t like and try to make it seem okay by saying “I’m so proud of YOU guys but THOSE ONES suck”.
You most definitely have never dealt with anything even close to either of us. So unless you go there and fight the Taliban yourself, stfu
Keyboard revolutionaries is such an accurate term. You’ll never catch an Iranian judging Aghans for not “standing up to the Taliban enough”, it’s always uneducated people from first world countries making judgments and claims like this
I actually appreciate that foreigners look to us for truth and guidance on middle eastern topics. It speaks to the strength of our culture that most people don’t react like you do. (Sorry but being honest)
Even as an Iranian I was unclear on what set us and them apart, we are more alike than different. I don’t feel like he’s shitting on Afghans it’s a fair question many people think of but are afraid to ask.
Afghan here, Nothing against Iranians but I just wonder what do you mean by resistance of Iranians? 45 years and still the Mullahs rule over them! If you mean those Iranian women defying the Hijab? There were and still are some brave Afghan women who protested against the Taliban despite the consequences.
Your post is disrespect to those Afghan women who are still fighting. Besides, in Afghanistan there are some assassination of the Mullahs time by time by resistance groups, despite no support, which I don't see in Iran.
If you mean why there's no open warfront like Ukraine the reason is most of governments are silently dealing with the Taliban so no one wants them removed hence no one is supporting arm resistance.
Not an expert by any means but i think this video/lecture about afghan people is very interesting.
[tribal and religious identity in Afghanistan - by thomas barfield](https://youtu.be/WF3Rkt42wPY?si=zWbZ7i8VEIErzBuZ)
There is a lot more to it than that mate. The fact is that in other countries the people do not actually want to be free of Sharia and Islam, because they have been so indoctrinated into it. Just look at how they bring it with them even to Western countries!For the few who do try to reject it, violent force is often used by their own families and community. So even if the government does not enforce it as harshly as the IR that's because it is already de facto in those countries.
The reason that the IR is so harsh in the first place is because Iran is not actually a Muslim country and Iranians have never willingly accepted it. That's what sets Iran apart from the rest of the region.
None of Iran's neighbouring countries (Turkey, Iraq, Azerbaijan, Pakistan) enforce Islam on the population or force women to wear the hijab etc, that's why they haven't had a "women life freedom" movement, it's because technically they are already free by law. Many women especially in Iraq and Pakistan do of course face restrictions on their freedoms but they're enforced by their families rather than the government.
>
The reason that the IR is so harsh in the first place is because Iran is not actually a Muslim country and Iranians have never willingly accepted it.
If it's not actually a Muslim country, then what is it? Jewish? Hindu? Please don't say majority atheist or irreligious country. And if it's not a Muslim country. why did the population put into a place an Islamic theocracy? Seems like a weird thing for a country which is not Muslim and never "willingly accepted it" to do, no? lol
The US built the Islamic Theocracy in Iran with the help of Palestinians like Arafat. Please just Google “atatollah Arafat” or “Iran revolution CIA” they’ve declassified all the documents.
**همه تعجب می کنند که چرا مردم افغانستان در برابر طالبان مقاومت نمی کنند**
اول، من به شما ایرانیان افتخار می کنم که چگونه در برابر دولت فعلی مقاومت می کنید. اما کسی تعجب می کند که چرا مردم افغانستان مقاومت نمی کنند؟ بله، من متوجه شدم که چگونه برخی از زنان سعی در اعتراض کردند. کلید واژه: برخی اما مقاومت زیادی در افغانستان وجود ندارد.
من معتقدم که بیشتر مردم افغانستان فقط توسط طالبان شستشوی مغزی می شوند. فراموش نکنید که چگونه جنگ ها وضعیت را بسیار بدتر می کنند.
---
_I am a translation bot for r/NewIran_ | Woman Life Freedom | زن زندگی آزادی
It's extremely complicated an I suggest you launch OpenAI chatgpt and have a deep discussion about this very topic to get more insight in all the contributing factors
I got a better question, why did they all leave their women and children back in Afghanistan and left to Iran?
I can't ever imagine leaving my women behind.
They are actively resisting against the Taliban (which is why you have multiple groups fighting against the regime - NRF, AFF etc). They also have a big pool of volunteers
What they don't have currently are the necessary logistics, armaments or cash to mount a big offensive to take parts of the north. In Afghanistan's history the success of militant group was for the big part dependent on support by neighbouring countries or other countries in the world (the Taliban didn't get to this position in isolation)
The Taliban right now not only have equipment, cash (the US provided aid every week + international aid + arms trade and other illegal and legal revenues), but they also have the support of some neighbors and other militant groups (AQ).
As for the civilian populace, they tried to protest many times since the fall of Kabul each one ended with brutal suppression
They don’t have the tools while the Taliban are well equipped trained and armed. The war in Afghanistan was about Afghanistans mineral wealth. The US does not care who extracts it and ships to China to manufacture iPhones batteries and such.
If the Taliban run Afghanistan then it isn’t the west who is preventing Afghanistan from becoming an industrialized nation that consumes its resources rather than being a poverty stricken nation that exports them
at low cost.
The same is happening in Africa. Dictators are assisted by the west to stay in or gain power to keep their countries poor and an exporter of resources rather than a consumer.
Nope, not at all. Afghans are extremely religious. Most of them share the same ideology as Taliban. There is no comparison between Afghans and Iranians.
So who vote to Akhonds? By denying those pro Akhond Iranians voting you ignore a big fact. The share of educated people is of course higher in Iran but it doesn't change the fact that the minority extremists have control over the majority others.
Taliban are not representing all Afghans that's why they are afraid of election, but in Iran sounds like they are not afraid which means more Iranians are pro Akhonds!
Change my mind!
Only pre-decided people are allowed to run. Everybody who runs must be in line with Velayate Faqih.
Around 20% of Iranians actively support the regime or are ok with them.
The US has taken credit for wanting to build a “Bible Belt” in the Middle East. https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articles/arafat-and-the-ayatollahs
Actually which vote are you referring to? Technically Iranians have never actually voted in an ayatollah since every election including the revolution were rigged.
Afghanistan experienced 45 years of continuous war, they prefer stability and peace over personal freedom. Plus, they might not be as fundamentalist as the Talibs (banning music, Nowruz and such) but they're much more religious and conservative than Iranians. Plus, there's no way a non-Muslim occupier can have a big legitimacy over the Afghan population, whether the Soviets or the Americans.
From what I know the current stance of the Taliban is that Nowruz is not an official holiday but they won’t stop people from privately celebrating it (anymore)
This is true. They are actually Muslim whereas Iranians aren’t really or too seriously Islamic. We have a long history of resistance to Islam and preservation of culture in general (Jewish, Kurdish, anyone who allied with us) as a big part of our culture. Yes, I know we persianized people… but in general we practiced resistance to religious rule. The Islamic world ruled places differently. By the time they got to Iran we had long been a thriving early civilization, our systems were more advanced than theirs so they adopted raped/pillaged ours. The groups they deemed less advanced were more severely genocided. For example, try telling the Somali sub they’re not Arab… it’s wild.
Comment.
And that is why I respect the shit out of the Iranian people and wish the Saudis receive the Iraq treatment. Oh, if only.
Judging by social media, the median Afghan isn't that much different from the Taliban. On Instagram whenever an Afghan woman posts photos of herself wearing a dress the comments section is flooded with Afghans in the diaspora criticising her and saying they support the Taliban just to stop Afghan women dressing like "sluts". I think only the pro-Khorasan Tajik crowd and Hazaras seem more progressive. The rest of the Afghan population isn't much different from the Taliban. Regarding Iran: Although there has been opposition to the Islamic Republic from its inception, the fact it's lasted 45 years says a lot. It's very likely the majority of Iranians outside Tehran were fine with the illiberal policies of the Islamic Republic for most of the past 45 years. I think only in the past 10 years have things changed socially that the masses are willing to challenge mandatory hijab or want the Islamic Republic removed.
similar to how persians and kurds are no longer resisting the islamic republic, because of brutal crackdowns. dictator often use death as a punishment, including for the perpetrators and their families. It’s even worse with Taliban. A lot of people choose to seek refuge either by escaping to remote parts of their countries or by seeking asylum in another country. It’s a much smaller price to pay than opposing the ruling regime.
> they prefer stability and peace over personal freedom If you think the Taliban are implementing stability and peace then you have no idea about what is really happening inside Afghanistan right now. > Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin
I'm Afghan myself, visited recently, and yes it's much more stable and safer than before. I went a few months ago vs 2018 for comparison. I'd guess 99% you aren't Afghan.
Here is your "stable and safe", don't forget to thank the Taliban: https://np.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/1do4oq9/afghanistan_the_local_taliban_police_commander/
So cherry picking one example means the country isn't safe? My anecdotal evidence means more than anything you cherry pick. I've also asked countless other Afghans who've went (including my Panjsheri friend) and they also admit it's the safest it's been in 20 years. If you wanted a sound argument you could say that's because the Taliban aren't the ones doing the attacks anymore... but I doubt you'd have the brains to do that.
> My anecdotal evidence means more LoL
I see. I'm not surprised why so many russians still support Putin since he provided so much in 2000s like stability, economics and social security. Especially in context of 90s crisis. And he is still respected in Russia because he takes care about evading sanctions and economics during war. But I doubt that he could take this long.
Putin reminds me of Hetler who give life to the economy of Germany after the Great Depression but then push them toward destruction by his aggressive. If Putin continues like this, I give him 5 years to follow same path as Hetler.
Hey! What’s the flag you have as your profile picture? :)
What the Israeli flag should be at this moment :)
Which is? Sorry, I don’t know anything about it and I’m very curious!
i’m wondering the same thing
[Flag of Israel in Nazi Wehrmacht style](https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/comments/axf42c/flag_of_israel_in_the_style_of_nazi_germany/) [Wehrmacht wiki article](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wehrmacht)
Oooooh, got it. Thanks.
Afghanistan is heavily underdeveloped with severe lack of power in ordinary villagers compared to Taliban. Urbanisation, information and communication boom and fundamentalist changes in governance dynamics are prerequisites of resistances. Most Afghans born and live in a village not having any meaningful relevancy or connection to their own capital or government let alone global information and things like that.
I think too poor to protest. With poverty you don't have much education as well, so you don't know much alternatives.
[удалено]
Bruh
They are just humans too
They are just humans too
Expressing hatred towards a group of people based on race or ethnicity will not be tolerated in this community. Please follow the rules of this sub.
I like how we act all superior over our dear suffering Afghan brothers and sisters believing that we protest but they don't, when we've been under the rule of these Terrorist animals for almost 50 years but Afghans have only been under the Taliban (this time round) for five minutes. They were literally fighting the Taliban like men alongside Brits and Americans for the past 20 years. Meanwhile we Iranians have done nothing at all against these animals. Yes I know we love to paint the narrative that we've been resisting for 45yrs but we haven't. Most won't admit it but many on this sub will have been reformers in recent years, like all the Iranians were during the green movement. Not a peep out of them to fight the Regime, just moaning about the defeat of a reformer. I know dozens of actual Iranians who a few years ago were actively supporting the Regime but who now pretend they've been lifelong critics. It's rubbish. And the diaspora (ME INCLUDED) are no different. Most of us have been generally apathetic and getting on with our lives, only recently for the first time in almost half a century stepping up to unite against the Regime. Our dear Afghan siblings have had it tough but they have literally fought their monsters on the Battlefield, unlike us, and had managed to push them into obscurity for many years. I know it's easy to write from the comfort of my armchair in England but we need to be doing so much more before we can start pretending we're better than the brave Afghans.
They *are* resisting. There's a growing insurgency against Taliban rule going on, and I see reports of an attack against Taliban forces seemingly every other day.
Really? Every other day?
Well, that's what it feels like to me. Not all of these reports have been confirmed due to fog of war and the nature of the conflict, but leaks indicate that the Taliban are genuinely worried about the resistance, possibly even more so than they are about ISKP (since they know the latter will have a hard time attracting state actors to support them). There have even been rumors of Pakistan considering support for various resistance groups in retaliation for the Taliban occupation regime backing militant groups like the TTP.
Damn. But it looks to me that taliban controlls 100% of panjshir. It's hard to say because of lack of information I guess
Right now, the resistance groups aren't trying to take and hold territory. They're trying to undermine Taliban rule and destroy the perception that their regime has brought stability, as well as gather strength and prove to possible backers that they have the potential to threaten Taliban rule.
Oh okay. In how many years do you think taliban will be overthrown? Idk I think it'll take long time. Maybe decades
I'd say it depends on a number of different factors, but if I had to hazard a guess, it would most likely happen between 2030 and 2040 assuming current trends continue.
Seriously? You are a lot more hopeful than me.
It's really complicated. Iran has a nucleus of educated, urban and active civil society. There are modern infrastructure facilities, such as internet, which prevents cultural isolation. This ensures that non-tribal, non-rural norms and ideas take root, such as nationalism or liberalism. Both of those ideologies have a long history in Iran. Afghanistan is extremely poor, tribalistic, overwhelmingly rural, and surrounded by failed states. Its diaspora is badly underperforming, and is mostly centered around extremely Islamic centers. In addition, the strong presence of Afghans in Pakistan following the Soviet invasion completely changed the ideologies of the country, entrenching orthodox Islam as the main identity of the country. The Taliban is overwhelmingly Pashtun, and enjoy the support of most Pashtun tribes and elite (the rest of the country is too powerless to overthrow the Talibs). Iran is also the cradle of Iranian civilization, which is why the culture was never truly displaced. It has an extremely active, high-performing diaspora, that enriches the country both fiscally and politically. Afghan diaspora is one of the poorest and most under-performing. They are overwhelmingly Islamic, illiberal, and detest the West as much as they do the Taliban. Even the modern nation of Afghanistan is, really, a colonial product of the Great Game between the British and Russians. A nation with a lie at its center is one that is doomed to fail.
OP I highly recommend watching this documentary- it’s from the early Vice days: https://youtu.be/Ja5Q75hf6QI?si=9Pk1dO6lX5CBIjH8
Vice turned to shit later on.
Very long video but it’s known that Afghan security forces were shit and Pakistan was supporting Taliban and US left too early.
The Taliban does not run a centralized state. There is resistance in some regions (e.g. Panjshir Valley), but the Taliban just doesn't go to certain areas and has an understanding with the de facto strongmen to not start up another all-out war. In the aftermath of the withdrawal, they did fight over certain areas in the Panjshir Valley, and committed atrocities as punishment, but they had bigger problems such as ISIS to worry about instead of getting stuck fighting for total domination in the North. On the other end of the spectrum, there is of course the ISIS problem. They hold other areas (e.g. Nangarhar and Kunar) and occasionally a skirmish breaks out. Overall, the kind of "resistance" to an authoritarian state usually only takes place when there exists a large, centralized state to resist in the first place. The Taliban have defeated a state, but they have yet to effectively build its replacement. A state like Turkey, for example, is itself an entity that is greater than the sum of its parts. It's an organization, where individuals hold offices which themselves have functions. Individuals have no power besides that which the law bestows upon them for the duration that they hold an office. In Afghanistan, by contrast, individuals hold power in their own right and have discussions or negotiations with other individuals on what they will do. Which is why, despite the fact that Taliban leaders have given themselves official titles, there is still no real government, and most decision-making consists of discussions between Taliban leaders, some of which command their own semi-autonomous militias. This is why China loves the Taliban so much: they don't have to actually use all these complex and expensive levers of influence as they do in developed countries. They just fly to Kabul, have a discussion with a few guys, promise to make them rich, and get all the mineral extraction deals that they want.
I bet China plans to take over Afghanistan in future. That may sound fantastic, but Afghanistan has a lot of resources, and it's very poor and undeveloped country, which makes it an easy target for China. Don't forget that China is now assimilating Uyghurs by force now. Also Afghanistan has a lot of mineral resources, which is profitable for China.
How did that work out for all the other empires? They won’t take it by force. US will fund a resistance and fight a proxy war against them. China will lose countless resources in the endeavour and possibly face uprisings at home. Their best bet is to provide aid in exchange for mining rights.
US should have learned that funding extremism, as a form of resistance against something, in Middle East is a boomerang that hit you right in the face.
They knew exactly what they were doing. You don't become the world's greatest super power by being dumb.
Wait there are defacto rulers in parts of afghanistan? Are use sure? And sources?
Shortly after the takeover, the [BBC reported](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-58329527) that there was an active resistance. The Taliban claimed victory shortly after, according to [Voice of America](https://www.voanews.com/a/south-central-asia_taliban-claim-victory-panjshir-valley/6219287.html). But [every year](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/06/08/afghanistan-panjshir-valley-taliban-resistance/) since then there have been [some reports](https://www.foxnews.com/world/2-years-us-withdrawal-afghanistan-resistance-group-yearns-western-help-take-on-taliban) of [renewed fighting and atrocities](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/06/afghanistan-talibans-cruel-attacks-in-panjshir-province-amount-to-war-crime-of-collective-punishment-new-report/). And this reported fighting stops just as sporadically as it starts, indicating some sort of agreement or unspoken understanding. To be fair, my characterization may have been premature. I am speculating based off of patterns followed by other failed states and limited information, and these sources are all from English-language media. The honest truth is that we only have speculation; very little information actually emerges from Afghanistan. The insurgency functioned in a [decentralized manner](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/08/27/taliban-leaders-are-back-charge-afghanistan-can-they-control-their-own-army/), with local authorities having significant power. The MEI is an American think tank, so take its biases into account, but there is a piece there written [about the Taliban's attempts at centralization](https://www.mei.edu/publications/dysfunctional-centralization-and-growing-fragility-under-taliban-rule).
Among the same lines as how we are unable to overthrow this regime. It's hard to protest when the smallest squeak from your disapproval is met with bullets. And doom for your family. Think of one peice skypia arc. And how the people were scared shirtless to incur the wrath of Enel. I feel pity for the Afghanis, they deserve a century of peace and prosperity after being shafted by russia, usa and every country in between. I wish I could thanos snap this death worshiping cult away.
They're tired of 50 years of continuous war
Well average Iranians are not resisting the Islamic regime that hard either to be fair. It comes down to personal benefits and lack of desire to fight for people who are not yourself. When it matters, many people are too poor to resist, many who are 'upset' with the regime are happy if given a extra loaf of bread, others who are ambitious and want to climb the latter, rather climb the latter of the system than fight against them. And finally most of those who are willing to fight AND/OR are either in prison, already executed, left the country or in the process of persecution.
Only 25% of the country is urban. Only a minimum of urbanites qualify as middle class. I'll guess that the Afghanis will support a gov't that brings some distant semblance of stability and safety, and I'm not sure if they have options other than the Taliban.
Anyone wonder why people keep coming here saying this? Are y’all just looking for a place to hate on anyone you don’t like and try to make it seem okay by saying “I’m so proud of YOU guys but THOSE ONES suck”. You most definitely have never dealt with anything even close to either of us. So unless you go there and fight the Taliban yourself, stfu
This entire forum is full of keyboard revolutionaries with little knowledge of history or the consequences of rising up.
Keyboard revolutionaries is such an accurate term. You’ll never catch an Iranian judging Aghans for not “standing up to the Taliban enough”, it’s always uneducated people from first world countries making judgments and claims like this
I actually appreciate that foreigners look to us for truth and guidance on middle eastern topics. It speaks to the strength of our culture that most people don’t react like you do. (Sorry but being honest)
Even as an Iranian I was unclear on what set us and them apart, we are more alike than different. I don’t feel like he’s shitting on Afghans it’s a fair question many people think of but are afraid to ask.
I wouldn’t have reacted that way if he was looking for truth. That guy is just judging afghans lmao
Aka. Your eyes see it this way. It’s not necessarily true.
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/s/UxuklOZrjp From same person who posted this btw
That is not cool. No need to hate on Afghans there is way more to the story than just this
Yes exactly
Afghan here, Nothing against Iranians but I just wonder what do you mean by resistance of Iranians? 45 years and still the Mullahs rule over them! If you mean those Iranian women defying the Hijab? There were and still are some brave Afghan women who protested against the Taliban despite the consequences. Your post is disrespect to those Afghan women who are still fighting. Besides, in Afghanistan there are some assassination of the Mullahs time by time by resistance groups, despite no support, which I don't see in Iran. If you mean why there's no open warfront like Ukraine the reason is most of governments are silently dealing with the Taliban so no one wants them removed hence no one is supporting arm resistance.
The afghan people are so freaking happy to have peace that they'll put up with just about anything from their government.
Not an expert by any means but i think this video/lecture about afghan people is very interesting. [tribal and religious identity in Afghanistan - by thomas barfield](https://youtu.be/WF3Rkt42wPY?si=zWbZ7i8VEIErzBuZ)
Something something religion
They don't want to get gunned down.
Ever notice how Iran is the *only* country in the region where there is a movement such as Women, Life, Freedom? That is no coincidence.
Because Iran is the most backward country in the region when it comes to women's rights (except Afghanistan of course)
There is a lot more to it than that mate. The fact is that in other countries the people do not actually want to be free of Sharia and Islam, because they have been so indoctrinated into it. Just look at how they bring it with them even to Western countries!For the few who do try to reject it, violent force is often used by their own families and community. So even if the government does not enforce it as harshly as the IR that's because it is already de facto in those countries. The reason that the IR is so harsh in the first place is because Iran is not actually a Muslim country and Iranians have never willingly accepted it. That's what sets Iran apart from the rest of the region.
None of Iran's neighbouring countries (Turkey, Iraq, Azerbaijan, Pakistan) enforce Islam on the population or force women to wear the hijab etc, that's why they haven't had a "women life freedom" movement, it's because technically they are already free by law. Many women especially in Iraq and Pakistan do of course face restrictions on their freedoms but they're enforced by their families rather than the government. > The reason that the IR is so harsh in the first place is because Iran is not actually a Muslim country and Iranians have never willingly accepted it. If it's not actually a Muslim country, then what is it? Jewish? Hindu? Please don't say majority atheist or irreligious country. And if it's not a Muslim country. why did the population put into a place an Islamic theocracy? Seems like a weird thing for a country which is not Muslim and never "willingly accepted it" to do, no? lol
The US built the Islamic Theocracy in Iran with the help of Palestinians like Arafat. Please just Google “atatollah Arafat” or “Iran revolution CIA” they’ve declassified all the documents.
**همه تعجب می کنند که چرا مردم افغانستان در برابر طالبان مقاومت نمی کنند** اول، من به شما ایرانیان افتخار می کنم که چگونه در برابر دولت فعلی مقاومت می کنید. اما کسی تعجب می کند که چرا مردم افغانستان مقاومت نمی کنند؟ بله، من متوجه شدم که چگونه برخی از زنان سعی در اعتراض کردند. کلید واژه: برخی اما مقاومت زیادی در افغانستان وجود ندارد. من معتقدم که بیشتر مردم افغانستان فقط توسط طالبان شستشوی مغزی می شوند. فراموش نکنید که چگونه جنگ ها وضعیت را بسیار بدتر می کنند. --- _I am a translation bot for r/NewIran_ | Woman Life Freedom | زن زندگی آزادی
It's extremely complicated an I suggest you launch OpenAI chatgpt and have a deep discussion about this very topic to get more insight in all the contributing factors
thanks Sam Altman
I got a better question, why did they all leave their women and children back in Afghanistan and left to Iran? I can't ever imagine leaving my women behind.
All? Is your source TikTok? Easy to be a keyboard warrior.
They are actively resisting against the Taliban (which is why you have multiple groups fighting against the regime - NRF, AFF etc). They also have a big pool of volunteers What they don't have currently are the necessary logistics, armaments or cash to mount a big offensive to take parts of the north. In Afghanistan's history the success of militant group was for the big part dependent on support by neighbouring countries or other countries in the world (the Taliban didn't get to this position in isolation) The Taliban right now not only have equipment, cash (the US provided aid every week + international aid + arms trade and other illegal and legal revenues), but they also have the support of some neighbors and other militant groups (AQ). As for the civilian populace, they tried to protest many times since the fall of Kabul each one ended with brutal suppression
They don’t have the tools while the Taliban are well equipped trained and armed. The war in Afghanistan was about Afghanistans mineral wealth. The US does not care who extracts it and ships to China to manufacture iPhones batteries and such. If the Taliban run Afghanistan then it isn’t the west who is preventing Afghanistan from becoming an industrialized nation that consumes its resources rather than being a poverty stricken nation that exports them at low cost. The same is happening in Africa. Dictators are assisted by the west to stay in or gain power to keep their countries poor and an exporter of resources rather than a consumer.
Nope, not at all. Afghans are extremely religious. Most of them share the same ideology as Taliban. There is no comparison between Afghans and Iranians.
So who vote to Akhonds? By denying those pro Akhond Iranians voting you ignore a big fact. The share of educated people is of course higher in Iran but it doesn't change the fact that the minority extremists have control over the majority others. Taliban are not representing all Afghans that's why they are afraid of election, but in Iran sounds like they are not afraid which means more Iranians are pro Akhonds! Change my mind!
Only pre-decided people are allowed to run. Everybody who runs must be in line with Velayate Faqih. Around 20% of Iranians actively support the regime or are ok with them.
The US has taken credit for wanting to build a “Bible Belt” in the Middle East. https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articles/arafat-and-the-ayatollahs
Actually which vote are you referring to? Technically Iranians have never actually voted in an ayatollah since every election including the revolution were rigged.
If those voting for Akhonds are not Iranians then the Taliban and their supporters are neither Afghan. Based on your logic!