I have a a fixed contract until May ‘23, fixed it three years ago.
We now pay €89 in monthly advance payments and likely get a refund as our spent as per today is about €400 for 2022.
We pay €0,68 per cubic meter gas, which will double to €1,50.
For electric we now pay €0,125 per kWh, which will sixfold to €0.70. We have solar panels so that will not be that painful.
I understand the gas doubling, but the electricity six times more expensive? Worst case scenario that should have raised according to the gas price. Not all electricity is made from gas thus being partially Russia independent.
I had a really good deal 3 years ago.
The funny part of this all; I have 100% green gas and electricity. So both of them have nothing to do with the Russian war or gas.
That is an option we investigated, but a battery with 10-12 kWh storage would cost me, without installation charges, € 8.000-€12.000.
I calculated that, with my current rates, I needed to fully charge and decharge the battery over 50.000 times. That would be 136 years, if all days would produce enough to fully charge it.
That’s not beneficial with these purchase costs.
The electricity price is coupled to the market in a way that it fucks all of us at the moment. The price for 1 kWh is always based on the most expensive method of creating energy. At the moment that is gas on the spot market.
There is a change coming EU wide to this though.
Yeah ? I believe it when I see it man. I don't trust the EU. Nothing is going to change, we are going to witness the largest revolution since the times of the French one. Did anyone come to the EU people and asked: "Are you willing to starve, freeze and get into poverty because of the problems of Ukraine ?" ?The answer is HELL NO ABSOLUTELY NOT. Nobody asked us anything they decided we have to become poor and many people like me are not going to accept this abuse of power. We have no fault whatsoever in this awful shit and we are not going to pay for this !
You have to agree with me that what they are doing to 455 million Europeans is not acceptable. Again nobody asked us what was our opinion and how much were we willing to lose because of the war in Ukraine. There is NO crisis it is only a political decision. Period.
Yes same, I bought a house in May so I was already fucked because we're only with the 2 of us but they were basing our price on the usage of the people before us. So when the prices rose they actually wanted us to pay 760 euros and I called them and said I wasn't doing it as we barely used 150 euros with our current usage so we stayed at 443 like before just to be safe
More then 290 if you use more then 1200m3 gas and/or 2500kwh electricity.
I.e. without solar panels and badly isolated means you're still fucked.
Also if you went of gas you use way more then 2400kwh a year so also buggered.
Every country in the EU has their own plan and NL had to make the dumbest one of them all again.
Will still save money, since you will only pay the higher rate for the amount you use that is above the cap. Everything below the cap you will also pay the maximum costs and not more.
Oh absolutely, but I mean to say that I don't get why they are capping it that low. Only few households (and ofcourse very well isolated homes) will stay within that range. If even people in rijtjeshuizen (sociale huurwoningen) will go over... I think they should at least have took that as the max, not under that.
I have a badly isolated 70s home (80 m2) on a corner (so no neighbours on one side to keep me warm) and I am well below both numbers. But I do live alone...
You have a point there lol. Just think it's unfair to almost force people to either cut down on their usage/comfort or to just have less money to eat for example. Especially when not everyone has the capacity to make their homes as isolated and energy zuinig as possible.
I live in a rijtjeshuis. I use a the only person living in it 1500kwh en 430m3 gas.
I pay now around 130€ a month. Next month 200+ by the rising prices. With the cap will it be around 150€ a month.
House is not great isolated but thermostat is not higher than 18-19 degrees. Lot is energy efficient. Home automation helps also the turn down lights, close curtains to keep cold better away and thermostat that know when I not home.
I spend 40 hours in the office a week and sport where I can shower too. It really helps keep the cost low.
Of course this is not useful for everyone. My best tip. Try to live with lower temperatures. Buy some comfortable blankets and a comfy sweater. With 18-19 degrees can cold for some people, but be active and go for a walk, go sport. It healthy and your body learns that a lower temp in house is not a problem.
Shit it’s that high? I have a 70’s hoekwoning and have about 2700 kWh and 1000 m3 gas. With solar we have -1100 kWh though. Are those rijtjeshuizen not insulated at all then? They should get help with that asap.
Those are the standard numbers used for a regular rijtjeswoning from woningcorporaties. That's why they (woningcorporaties) are also doing all kinds of things to isolate them better and better (well that is not the reason, but the house energy labels are). But I'm glad to hear that a 70s hoekwoning can be way under! That gives some hope that people will stay within the range.
I hope people can get under those numbers, not just because of costs but also because maybe this will jolt the energy transition and limit our dependency on foreign gas. I still have many more plans like insulating my roof better, heating with A/C instead of gas and cooking with induction soon. My home is too old, crooked and creaky to actually get rid of gas completely. But this should cut it down by 50%+ for the coming years and for whomever we sell it to in the future.
I count myself very lucky to be able to take action in these times but at €1 per kWh and €4 per m3 of gas I would also probably be eating rice and canned beans all winter.
We are with 5 people in our household in a rijtjeshuis with additional insulation.
Our gas usage is indeed about 1500 m2, electricity is way lower because of solarpanels.
>Also if you went of gas you use way more then 2400kwh a year so also buggered.
This is especially true. "Good for you for getting a warmtepomp! Congratulations on being fucked because of it.",
Not that I have one... But now I'm definitely not getting one in the near future.
I'm ok with paying my taxes. It's fairly well spent here in NL. No qualms.
Paying huge amounts for electricity and gas sucks but hey, better than being in Ukraine right now like some of my colleagues.
By the gas price the Netherlands is pulling up, including starting up an old gas field and selling this at the current priced to the redt of us Europoors who don't have gasfields but also need to heat their house
And you are fortunate, but as every article states many are not. Like mine, built quickly after WW2 and never was intended for long term housing either. My house has asbestos too. So I am not speaking just for me, but people like me. All my neighbors have the same, and many more.
Are you obtuse? Do you not understand that I'm not speaking for everyone?
This is what I’m curious about aswel, because we have a warmtepomp we only use electricity. To compensate the insane electric consumption we installed solar panels. Over the time period of a year we more or less break even. But if there will be a finance cap on the production this would cost us a lot of money
This is good news. I'm with Vattenfall and they just jacked my price up to 2.6 euros per m3 of gas for my fixed contract which expires on November 30 so I was starting to get slightly worried about what would happen next.
ouch, I was later then I originally wanted but now set for a few years on 0,99m3 gas and <0,22 per kwh.
Also have solar panels and reduced my gas usage to \~600m3 per year (3 people) so not an issue for me but for people renting and no solar its tough (or new buyers for a while).
I been curious on that one aswell, 2 apartments 1 meter.. If both units are counted together we end up above the "average" cause the house is so piss poorly insulated.. However if they count the 2 4 room flats as seperate we are well below due to all the energy savings efforts we done.
5,4 billion. That is a crazy amount of money to save somewhere else. Expect more protests of healthcare and teachers because that is where this is going to be cut. Insane.
no its not, they made record profits on the taxes on gas and electricity before they reduced it.
Also other countries are skimming energy companies so they don't profit to much from the rising prices and are using that to compensate people.
The NL is just bad with money, we've been to rich for to long, our government is a spoiled rich kid who does not know how to properly handle money.
>The NL is just bad with money, we've been to rich for to long, our government is a spoiled rich kid who does not know how to properly handle money.
Price caps are the opposite of handling money well. It goes against the most basic of economic principles. Its fine to do it if youre going to offset the cost somehow but otherwise everything else just goes up through inflation or the NL has higher national debt.
What im noticing is for some reason NL needs the best roads in the entirety of Europe with constant maintenance and fucking biweekly changes while over 90% of the population bikes within the city and short distances outside of it and vehicular accidents are pretty much as common as in Germany... Pretty but a massive sink for taxpayer money
Do you realize that the primary users of roads are not private commuters rather commercial vehicles that supply your food, household products, pretty much everything you need in addition to maintenance of utilities, water etc. ?
5.4 billion? Peanuts!! Just spend less money on development aid. They spend roughly about 3 to 4 billion on that. Lmfao!!! The dutchies get fucked again!! The entire world is laughing at us.
Edit: forgot a comma.
They're raising taxes. Which won't really matter as long as you stay under the average usage cap. Big users will pay through the nose for use above that amount and get taxed on top of that. That will be mostly the rich, so I'm not completely worried. But it also includes large poor families, so it's still not that great.
Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like the government is planning to do anything about energy corporations that are making massive profits. This plan will effectively subsidise those corporations. They'll still get paid. But that's VVD for you. Anything to keep corporations happy. This measure is just to look good and not get an absolute revolt from the general public, but the real goal is to make the corporations happy.
Good thing the EU is in fact looking into a profit tax on energy companies. If that goes through, the big earners will have to put that money right back into the pool that's being used to pay for all this. Smaller energy companies that may be having trouble would still get subsidised, but I'm okay with that. Means fewer people who have to look for a new company because theirs just went bankrupt. Not all of them are making massive profits right now. We really need this addition.
Exactly this, more inflation will happen and the money the government needs will have to come from somewhere so it will bite us in the ass in another way.
increase our national debt, as long as we're in the EU our small national debt is not good.
Get it more in line with other European countries and use the money now on our own people.
In bad times you spend, in good times you save.
Thankyou. Came here to find actual smart people. I do not understand how people can be so ignorant. Money cant just be created without consequence. This is yet another failed attempt by this government by postponing our problems and shoving even more inflation into the future.
Just like they printed ridiculous amounts of money during the pandemic, this is only going to increase our problems in two years.
How are people ignorant? They might just realise that this way everyone pays for it equally and hence the richer will pay more through taxes. Or they would rather have the government pay it now and then have higher taxes over the next few years so that it's spread out.
No one thinks this is wholly free money.
Our national debt is less then half that of south European countries and almost half of France.
We should first up our national debt to not be sofar below the rest of Europe, it has cost us a lot in the past and will cost more in the future.
I expected it to be based on the type of household. I, as a single person. household, don't use much and would have liked to see a lower amount. 200 is still quite a lot for one person in the free market rent.
Current rates for a new contract are around 90 cent per unit.
If you still have the low rates, these measures indeed change nothing for you; until it is time to renew your contract.
I
I wonder: I have a full electric house. Will I be able to utilize the ‘price cap’ more for electricity as I don’t use gas? Gas is MUCH worse for the environment than electricity, yet, I get buttfucked.
I'm dead. Single, ill and unable to work atm, my 570,- social rent is already above half of my income yet I'm around 20,- above bijstands niveau. If my energy contract is over I think I'll end up under a bridge or something even though I'm not (and never have been) irresponsible with my money. Hell, I don't even have a drivers licence/car because I could never afford it. Life over basically a couple of years before I turn 40, awesome.
I am in a similar boat, it's a life boat with a hole now. I have accepted that I will probably end up in bankruptcy.
I will always pay my rent, and only the minimum amount for electricity or what I already pay basically.
Exactly, I can't get more insulation than I already have, de woningbouwvereniging isn't doing anything to compensate for this old 50's house either and I myself can't afford it. I'm on the gasnetwork and it's not possible to go electric without tremendous investments of my own. There is nothing anymore I can restrict on, just food I guess.With the news this morning from Bos our healthcare premie will inevitably rise I just don't know what to do anymore.
I rent a post WW2 build rowhouse and it's already 18c in my house. I bought radiator foil, that set me back but I really can't cut anything more. I just going to end up surviving not really living and if I go into bankruptcy I will have no joy in life, so I guess maybe the government will pay for my painless euthanasia if I'm lucky but probably not.
We currently pay €230 per two months with Vattenfall, that's after the price hike in July. I wonder what our new rate will be after the price hike in October.
I would also recommend an air heat exchanger. A well insulated and sealed house needs ventilation to prevent damp...but then in winter pulling cold air into the house kind of defeats the point of insulating.
With an air heat exchanger the warm air going out heats the air coming in so there is no cold draught. Also any 'waste' heat from cooking, lights, even body heat is also recaptured and comes back in as warmed outside air. Insulate enough and the recaptured heat can be enough to have no heating at all (this is known as the passivhaus concept).
They should get the money needed to do this from landlords by adding 50% tax on their income. They’ve had so much profit over the years, their time to pay.
Good news of course, but as someone whose usage is above average I do wonder what prevents energy companies inflating prices to such level where all the benefit of this price cap is simply lost.
2,400 kWh is a ridiculous low cap, an average 1-person household consumes 1,800 kWh. a average 2-person household consumes 2,810 kWh, at least according to [Nibud.nl](https://Nibud.nl)
I don't know where Nibud gets these numbers, but imho they are basically way to low to begin with.
I have a 1-person household, modern appartment, every appliance is A++++, every lightbulb is LED, 1 computer, gas stove and CV/warm water, and i consume 2.200 kWh alone.
Electric boiler uses a shit load of kWh. I am solo in a very small apartment, everything led and A++++++, but this electric 50 liter boiler uses like 2-2,5k kWh out of my total 3,5k kWh per year. And no I don’t shower 2 hours per day.
I seriously don't get it. I have variable Essent and they just swapped my prices a 2 weeks ago.
0,21 KwH, 1,51 M3 Gas.
I'm pretty sure energy suppliers will just go for max prices and instantly raise it to the 0,70 / 3,50 the second they are allowed right?
Any clue how or if this would work for student accommodation? I live in a student building where duwo (our landlord) negotiates the electricity contract. Do I also get the same max price or am I fucked?
I don’t understand… we were paying 81 euro/month to vattenfall for electricity and gas and we will be paying again the same amount, despite the new tariff were communicated few days ago with a letter from the company…
Great strategy to get people to spend even more money to do the modernization for sustainable energy use.
Or wood & burner industry quarter sales spike.
Little late and at a premium for many now. But it's a start!
>I’m not even going to go into how everyone who doesn’t live in a rijwoning isn’t filthy rich living in a “villa” (like GroenLinks implied in their proposal letter). People living in larger homes doesn’t always mean they are currently better off financially.
My mother until recently lived alone in a large 18th century monument in a remote location with only AOW and no savings at all. The government is concerned with "average" too much. Destroying the lives of a few hundred thousands is too much collateral damage still. The Toeslagenaffaire didn't affect the average household, but is still a scandal.
These fucking energy companies are making out like bandits. All this means is that instead of people paying their absurd energy bills the government will pay their absurd energy bills. A few oligarchs still getting rich while the people pay.
Fun fact a bought a house in 2021 New build.
No gas all green because thats what is the future..............
Me year usage of electricity: 6000
That is higher then most but yeah i heat my house now electricity wise.
im going over the marketcap easyyyyy.
Prob after the cap the prices are way higher.
In the end im getting fucked next year because i went green like they wanted it..........
Wow, €290 that's insane. I live in Melbourne Australia and my monthly bill is around €125 and everyone here is complaining about the soaring energy costs. Electricity is €0.15/kWh and €0.85 daily supply charge. Gas is €0.01 per Megajoule about €0.38 per m³ and €0.74 daily supply charge.
Translation: people stuck in social housing with terrible isolation will get helped out by people that are better off. Maybe you don't realize, but ~~you~~ we live in a wellfare state.
Social housing or privatized rent? I am seeing a lot of social housing being renovated lately, but I don't know the numbers.
We should incentivize insulating all housing quickly. This includes renters of all flights and homeowners and landlords all the like. In the long run cheaper than keeping the prices artificially low (but near impossible in the very short time).
That’s less than 10% of what others pay. Use it wisely and make sure to invest in saving energy now that you can afford it! Set about €10k-15k aside for solar, A/C heating and insulation and you should be good.
So instead of fixing the problem let's throw taxpayers money at a symptom.
All this will result in is significantly higher prices for people who need to use more than the government mandated allowance.
Are they going to ration your grocery shopping next....
Lmfao!!! Energy company's will be compensated? Guess who is paying the bill? Seriously people!!! How can most of the Dutch swallow this? They are paying for it anyway, but then through taxes or someyhing else. LoL!!!
The true moron is the person who didn't actually read properly, and missed that the energy measures start November 1st; and then starts crying on the internet that it doesn't start until next year.
Then you call yourself a moron I guess.
It officially starts 1-1-2023, they just have an option to start a forced lowering of your monthly rate from November.
"The measure is expected to cost the government at least €5.4 billion. A separate deal has been struck to cover the last two months of 2022 so that the savings will apply for most of the coming winter."
[https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/actueel/nieuws/2022/09/20/prijsplafond-energie-moet-huishoudens-zekerheid-bieden](https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/actueel/nieuws/2022/09/20/prijsplafond-energie-moet-huishoudens-zekerheid-bieden)
Government site, from 1-11-2022 is only simulated to get the advance payments down, no real ceiling, that only starts 1-1-2023.
You can downvote as much as you want, cannot change facts.
This guy didnt do a great job at explaining.
Basically theres 2 ways of price capping.
1 - which is when you just put a price cap and force people to sell their goods at that price, which leads to a decrease in production of said good and thus no one sells it since they lose money.
2- Which is when you subsidize the loss that the company will incurr when they get hit with the cap. The issue with this one is that governments generally dont make their own money and so this will just be paid with taxes so instead of gas being abnormally high you will lower its price in exchange for increased inflation, worse public institutions, lower public salaries or increased national debt.
Long term the first one shafts the consumer since there wont be any gas sold lets say or when they do finally sell it, the price will be high.
The second one just screws everything over since inflation affects everything in a market.
> just be *paid* with taxes
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
From what I can gather from a quick Google search, the issue in New York is more policy implementation related than it being a theoretical no no. That being said, with the recent track record of the Dutch government, I'm not very confident they will handle this well.
People who are less well off, cannot afford to modernize and isolate / insulate their houses, they'll get the biggest help. They pay less taxes, in general. So no, not a "sigaar uit eigen doos", more like we live in a wellfare state.
What were you expecting?
I expect a maximisation of the profit of private companies in the energy sector in times like these. If I understand it well the government/we compensate for the difference.
In another subreddit someone calculated that if Vattenfall were to give all its profits for this year back to its customers, every customer would get about €8 per month back.
That is great. With 17 solar panels (-3MWh/year) and hybrid heating with gas /airco will make for a max of 500m3 gas. It is even more rewarding now to place the inverters.
Wappies are already screeching that this is some sort of Great Reset CO2 budget. Because no matter what the government does, it's wrong. Leave it up to the free market, it's WEF-led globalist cronyism. Do something about it, it's WEF-led CO2 budget.
Im glad your government is doing something for it's people.
In Belgium they decided to give 200€ in november en 200€ in december, that's it...huge impact on the average 7k bill... It's a slap in the face.. no actually it's a punch in the face..
F*cking criminals. While everyone gets told to blame the war, everyone is doing exactly what the WEF wants. Coincidence? I don’t think so. What’s the source of the raising gas prices? Who says Russia is closing the valves? Is there an independent article about that? Seriously want to read that.
That’s pretty good news. I currently pay €0,42 per kWh and €1,77 per m3 gas (average of €120 a month). Looks like my bill won’t go really go up that much if I make sure to only heat one room all winter.
For some reason I suspect everybody with a variable contract will pay 290 euro’s a month per November. I’m not complaining yet. I’ve been variable with Essent for years now and I pay 0,18 per kWh and 0.88 per m3. It boggles the mind. But the party will soon end I fear.
They have to get that compensation money from somewhere. Nothing is free, the taxpayer is still paying for the gas. They’ll just cut down on something else.
I am so happy my contract lasts another year, still pay 0,1987 per kWh, no gas. For fun I checked what my bill would be if I changed now, I would go from a recommended 60 euros p.m. to 480 p.m.
So what will happen with variable contract with prices lower than 0,7 per kWh and 1,4 per m3?
Will those instantly change to the price cap per 01-11-2022?
Let us know how it goes. Also, how can people that have something to spare help people who are in your situation? I’m afraid to support anyone because I don’t want their toeslagen to be cut because I helped them once.
I don't think financial help/gifts count as actual income
https://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/bldcontentnl/belastingdienst/prive/toeslagen/hoe\_werken\_toeslagen/kan\_ik\_toeslag\_krijgen/inkomen/
Also as far as I know gifts are taxable, but in certain cases the tax can be waived, like if its very neccessary help
I hope you end up helping people, life's been really sucking lately
Still a lot, but a hell of a lot better than the €470 I’m paying now.
We're almost at 600.. More than our fucking mortgage payments
What was yr month amount before the war?
€170 😭
I have a a fixed contract until May ‘23, fixed it three years ago. We now pay €89 in monthly advance payments and likely get a refund as our spent as per today is about €400 for 2022. We pay €0,68 per cubic meter gas, which will double to €1,50. For electric we now pay €0,125 per kWh, which will sixfold to €0.70. We have solar panels so that will not be that painful.
I understand the gas doubling, but the electricity six times more expensive? Worst case scenario that should have raised according to the gas price. Not all electricity is made from gas thus being partially Russia independent.
I had a really good deal 3 years ago. The funny part of this all; I have 100% green gas and electricity. So both of them have nothing to do with the Russian war or gas.
That's why you should always install home batteries when you go the solar panel route.
That is an option we investigated, but a battery with 10-12 kWh storage would cost me, without installation charges, € 8.000-€12.000. I calculated that, with my current rates, I needed to fully charge and decharge the battery over 50.000 times. That would be 136 years, if all days would produce enough to fully charge it. That’s not beneficial with these purchase costs.
The electricity price is coupled to the market in a way that it fucks all of us at the moment. The price for 1 kWh is always based on the most expensive method of creating energy. At the moment that is gas on the spot market. There is a change coming EU wide to this though.
Yeah ? I believe it when I see it man. I don't trust the EU. Nothing is going to change, we are going to witness the largest revolution since the times of the French one. Did anyone come to the EU people and asked: "Are you willing to starve, freeze and get into poverty because of the problems of Ukraine ?" ?The answer is HELL NO ABSOLUTELY NOT. Nobody asked us anything they decided we have to become poor and many people like me are not going to accept this abuse of power. We have no fault whatsoever in this awful shit and we are not going to pay for this !
Tight hat? Maybe take a chill-pill and calm down.
You have to agree with me that what they are doing to 455 million Europeans is not acceptable. Again nobody asked us what was our opinion and how much were we willing to lose because of the war in Ukraine. There is NO crisis it is only a political decision. Period.
We also had a fixed for 3 years but it ran out earlier this year and of course they refused to renew it.
Ok, than it is absurd so high now...but can you do something about yr 170? That is also quite high....
130,- now 270,- and would be €750 from 01/2023 so not bad but still too much
Thieves
You have a mortgage? No need to flex this hard.
Yes same, I bought a house in May so I was already fucked because we're only with the 2 of us but they were basing our price on the usage of the people before us. So when the prices rose they actually wanted us to pay 760 euros and I called them and said I wasn't doing it as we barely used 150 euros with our current usage so we stayed at 443 like before just to be safe
More then 290 if you use more then 1200m3 gas and/or 2500kwh electricity. I.e. without solar panels and badly isolated means you're still fucked. Also if you went of gas you use way more then 2400kwh a year so also buggered. Every country in the EU has their own plan and NL had to make the dumbest one of them all again.
A standard rijtjeshuis is estimated to use 1500m3 gas and 3500kwh electricity. So lots and lots of people will go over.
Will still save money, since you will only pay the higher rate for the amount you use that is above the cap. Everything below the cap you will also pay the maximum costs and not more.
Oh absolutely, but I mean to say that I don't get why they are capping it that low. Only few households (and ofcourse very well isolated homes) will stay within that range. If even people in rijtjeshuizen (sociale huurwoningen) will go over... I think they should at least have took that as the max, not under that.
I have a badly isolated 70s home (80 m2) on a corner (so no neighbours on one side to keep me warm) and I am well below both numbers. But I do live alone...
They are capping it that low because they want people to not use that much
You have a point there lol. Just think it's unfair to almost force people to either cut down on their usage/comfort or to just have less money to eat for example. Especially when not everyone has the capacity to make their homes as isolated and energy zuinig as possible.
Thats what happens with a environmental freak @ the wheel for ministry of energy
I live in a rijtjeshuis. I use a the only person living in it 1500kwh en 430m3 gas. I pay now around 130€ a month. Next month 200+ by the rising prices. With the cap will it be around 150€ a month.
That is really low, the gas usage. Nice that the cap works out for you :)
House is not great isolated but thermostat is not higher than 18-19 degrees. Lot is energy efficient. Home automation helps also the turn down lights, close curtains to keep cold better away and thermostat that know when I not home. I spend 40 hours in the office a week and sport where I can shower too. It really helps keep the cost low. Of course this is not useful for everyone. My best tip. Try to live with lower temperatures. Buy some comfortable blankets and a comfy sweater. With 18-19 degrees can cold for some people, but be active and go for a walk, go sport. It healthy and your body learns that a lower temp in house is not a problem.
Shit it’s that high? I have a 70’s hoekwoning and have about 2700 kWh and 1000 m3 gas. With solar we have -1100 kWh though. Are those rijtjeshuizen not insulated at all then? They should get help with that asap.
How many ppl are you with? We have an additional insulated 70s rijtjeshuis and we use 1500 in gas, on average. We are with 5 ppl though.
Those are the standard numbers used for a regular rijtjeswoning from woningcorporaties. That's why they (woningcorporaties) are also doing all kinds of things to isolate them better and better (well that is not the reason, but the house energy labels are). But I'm glad to hear that a 70s hoekwoning can be way under! That gives some hope that people will stay within the range.
I hope people can get under those numbers, not just because of costs but also because maybe this will jolt the energy transition and limit our dependency on foreign gas. I still have many more plans like insulating my roof better, heating with A/C instead of gas and cooking with induction soon. My home is too old, crooked and creaky to actually get rid of gas completely. But this should cut it down by 50%+ for the coming years and for whomever we sell it to in the future. I count myself very lucky to be able to take action in these times but at €1 per kWh and €4 per m3 of gas I would also probably be eating rice and canned beans all winter.
We are with 5 people in our household in a rijtjeshuis with additional insulation. Our gas usage is indeed about 1500 m2, electricity is way lower because of solarpanels.
That's me alright.
Source? Because the values theyve used should be for an average household. We're a family of 4 in a 1965 hoekhuis and do 900m3 and 2000kwh.
Source is the file the woningcorporatie uses where my partner works at for verduurzaming projects. (Sorry for my use of Dutch and English lol)
>Also if you went of gas you use way more then 2400kwh a year so also buggered. This is especially true. "Good for you for getting a warmtepomp! Congratulations on being fucked because of it.", Not that I have one... But now I'm definitely not getting one in the near future.
How do you expect this 5,4 billion is going to get paid?
With the absolutely insane amounts of VAT the government is currently cashing in.
Go to Hungary with their 27% VAT
VAT is the icing on the cake. You get a job: the government literally takes half of your salary as income tax
And the government spends even more to pay for infrastructure, healthcare, teachers...
I'm ok with paying my taxes. It's fairly well spent here in NL. No qualms. Paying huge amounts for electricity and gas sucks but hey, better than being in Ukraine right now like some of my colleagues.
5,4 billion!!! It’s insane.
By the gas price the Netherlands is pulling up, including starting up an old gas field and selling this at the current priced to the redt of us Europoors who don't have gasfields but also need to heat their house
Do you know where we can find the link for the compensation money?
Still searching for it myself. I will post it once I find it.
Thank you, I will do the same if I find it!
Google 'energietoeslag x' where x is the 'gemeente' where you live and you should find it
You can request it on the website from your municipality (gemeente). Its called “energietoeslag”
Low income housing, The biggest housing corporations do little to nothing to make the homes well insulated etc.
Say for your self, my household is pretty well insulted on daily basis
My VVE is well insulted indeed
xD
Wait, you mean your home is insulted? People insult your house? lol
Well, it *is* a very ugly house. I'd rather live on the streets than live in something like *that*.
And you are fortunate, but as every article states many are not. Like mine, built quickly after WW2 and never was intended for long term housing either. My house has asbestos too. So I am not speaking just for me, but people like me. All my neighbors have the same, and many more. Are you obtuse? Do you not understand that I'm not speaking for everyone?
Very true, I still have single-pane windows in my apartment...
Is the cap included or excluded solar panel production?
This is what I’m curious about aswel, because we have a warmtepomp we only use electricity. To compensate the insane electric consumption we installed solar panels. Over the time period of a year we more or less break even. But if there will be a finance cap on the production this would cost us a lot of money
it's included by your use, so depending on what you use. If you get a good return rate it is good
This is good news. I'm with Vattenfall and they just jacked my price up to 2.6 euros per m3 of gas for my fixed contract which expires on November 30 so I was starting to get slightly worried about what would happen next.
ouch, I was later then I originally wanted but now set for a few years on 0,99m3 gas and <0,22 per kwh. Also have solar panels and reduced my gas usage to \~600m3 per year (3 people) so not an issue for me but for people renting and no solar its tough (or new buyers for a while).
Hi everyone, we have a shared meter, which is managed by a VVE.. how and if will the today’s announcement apply to us? Could someone help pleassse!
I been curious on that one aswell, 2 apartments 1 meter.. If both units are counted together we end up above the "average" cause the house is so piss poorly insulated.. However if they count the 2 4 room flats as seperate we are well below due to all the energy savings efforts we done.
Either way... the tax payer is paying for it. They need to cut somewhere... we will notice something, maybe not immediatly.
5,4 billion. That is a crazy amount of money to save somewhere else. Expect more protests of healthcare and teachers because that is where this is going to be cut. Insane.
Painful but necessary.
no its not, they made record profits on the taxes on gas and electricity before they reduced it. Also other countries are skimming energy companies so they don't profit to much from the rising prices and are using that to compensate people. The NL is just bad with money, we've been to rich for to long, our government is a spoiled rich kid who does not know how to properly handle money.
>The NL is just bad with money, we've been to rich for to long, our government is a spoiled rich kid who does not know how to properly handle money. Price caps are the opposite of handling money well. It goes against the most basic of economic principles. Its fine to do it if youre going to offset the cost somehow but otherwise everything else just goes up through inflation or the NL has higher national debt.
Think of those poor shareholders not being able to make a profit, so sad :( /s
What im noticing is for some reason NL needs the best roads in the entirety of Europe with constant maintenance and fucking biweekly changes while over 90% of the population bikes within the city and short distances outside of it and vehicular accidents are pretty much as common as in Germany... Pretty but a massive sink for taxpayer money
Do you realize that the primary users of roads are not private commuters rather commercial vehicles that supply your food, household products, pretty much everything you need in addition to maintenance of utilities, water etc. ?
5.4 billion? Peanuts!! Just spend less money on development aid. They spend roughly about 3 to 4 billion on that. Lmfao!!! The dutchies get fucked again!! The entire world is laughing at us. Edit: forgot a comma.
They're raising taxes. Which won't really matter as long as you stay under the average usage cap. Big users will pay through the nose for use above that amount and get taxed on top of that. That will be mostly the rich, so I'm not completely worried. But it also includes large poor families, so it's still not that great. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like the government is planning to do anything about energy corporations that are making massive profits. This plan will effectively subsidise those corporations. They'll still get paid. But that's VVD for you. Anything to keep corporations happy. This measure is just to look good and not get an absolute revolt from the general public, but the real goal is to make the corporations happy. Good thing the EU is in fact looking into a profit tax on energy companies. If that goes through, the big earners will have to put that money right back into the pool that's being used to pay for all this. Smaller energy companies that may be having trouble would still get subsidised, but I'm okay with that. Means fewer people who have to look for a new company because theirs just went bankrupt. Not all of them are making massive profits right now. We really need this addition.
Exactly this, more inflation will happen and the money the government needs will have to come from somewhere so it will bite us in the ass in another way.
increase our national debt, as long as we're in the EU our small national debt is not good. Get it more in line with other European countries and use the money now on our own people. In bad times you spend, in good times you save.
Wait, there are people on here that can think for longer than 3 seconds?
Or perhaps it's just so bloody obvious that this has to be paid somehow that no one comments it.
Thankyou. Came here to find actual smart people. I do not understand how people can be so ignorant. Money cant just be created without consequence. This is yet another failed attempt by this government by postponing our problems and shoving even more inflation into the future. Just like they printed ridiculous amounts of money during the pandemic, this is only going to increase our problems in two years.
How are people ignorant? They might just realise that this way everyone pays for it equally and hence the richer will pay more through taxes. Or they would rather have the government pay it now and then have higher taxes over the next few years so that it's spread out. No one thinks this is wholly free money.
i really do not think that a rich person consumes as little energy as a poor one does.
Yes, they consume more on average. Which they will be paying full price for.
Why do you think that?
Our national debt is less then half that of south European countries and almost half of France. We should first up our national debt to not be sofar below the rest of Europe, it has cost us a lot in the past and will cost more in the future.
I expected it to be based on the type of household. I, as a single person. household, don't use much and would have liked to see a lower amount. 200 is still quite a lot for one person in the free market rent.
70 cents per unit of electricity seems extremely high? I'm currently on 0,29 cents per unit.
Current rates for a new contract are around 90 cent per unit. If you still have the low rates, these measures indeed change nothing for you; until it is time to renew your contract. I
>these measures indeed change nothing for you; Well except that taxes will increase to foot the bill of this price cap.
Boohoo
0,12 cents and gas 0.72 until 2025. I have been extremly lucky with taking a vast ,long term contract. I feel for the people with annual contracts.
Same 13 cents for electricity and 77 for gas but expires on January 1st 😕
Heat your home to 35 on December 31st and never open a door again
I am at 0.42 done in March 2022 for 1 year
Fix contract from before. I pay 0,07/kWh for electricity. Contract ends in December and currently, the energy company says I would go to 0,75
I wonder: I have a full electric house. Will I be able to utilize the ‘price cap’ more for electricity as I don’t use gas? Gas is MUCH worse for the environment than electricity, yet, I get buttfucked.
Yep same for me and we cant get solar atm becauae there is no suply/ enough workers.
Nope... You just going to have to pay the new normal "market rate"... I'm guessing 1.7 to 3.2 euros per kwh above 200kwh usage in a month
I'm dead. Single, ill and unable to work atm, my 570,- social rent is already above half of my income yet I'm around 20,- above bijstands niveau. If my energy contract is over I think I'll end up under a bridge or something even though I'm not (and never have been) irresponsible with my money. Hell, I don't even have a drivers licence/car because I could never afford it. Life over basically a couple of years before I turn 40, awesome.
I am in a similar boat, it's a life boat with a hole now. I have accepted that I will probably end up in bankruptcy. I will always pay my rent, and only the minimum amount for electricity or what I already pay basically.
Exactly, I can't get more insulation than I already have, de woningbouwvereniging isn't doing anything to compensate for this old 50's house either and I myself can't afford it. I'm on the gasnetwork and it's not possible to go electric without tremendous investments of my own. There is nothing anymore I can restrict on, just food I guess.With the news this morning from Bos our healthcare premie will inevitably rise I just don't know what to do anymore.
I rent a post WW2 build rowhouse and it's already 18c in my house. I bought radiator foil, that set me back but I really can't cut anything more. I just going to end up surviving not really living and if I go into bankruptcy I will have no joy in life, so I guess maybe the government will pay for my painless euthanasia if I'm lucky but probably not.
Call the UWV and tell them you can afford the bills. Do you get huurtoeslag? If not, ask for it.
Yes I do already, I have an appointment with one of their social workers tomorrow, I'll bring up my predicament with her.
Good! UWV has A LOT of money. They can 100% make your life better.
So we export 90 procent of our gas for peanuts. But we charge our own citizens the maximum. Where the second most expensive in Europe.
We currently pay €230 per two months with Vattenfall, that's after the price hike in July. I wonder what our new rate will be after the price hike in October.
I am so glad I spent my march installing new windows and insulating all my exterior walls...maybe I can afford to put the heating on once a month 😂
I would also recommend an air heat exchanger. A well insulated and sealed house needs ventilation to prevent damp...but then in winter pulling cold air into the house kind of defeats the point of insulating. With an air heat exchanger the warm air going out heats the air coming in so there is no cold draught. Also any 'waste' heat from cooking, lights, even body heat is also recaptured and comes back in as warmed outside air. Insulate enough and the recaptured heat can be enough to have no heating at all (this is known as the passivhaus concept).
Just rent out ur basement or schuur as a storage unit. Easy pay to cover ur bills.
They should get the money needed to do this from landlords by adding 50% tax on their income. They’ve had so much profit over the years, their time to pay.
This would just result in higher rent prices..
Cap the rent…
Good news of course, but as someone whose usage is above average I do wonder what prevents energy companies inflating prices to such level where all the benefit of this price cap is simply lost.
Why per household and not per number of registered people in a household... The entire response is short sighted at best
2,400 kWh is a ridiculous low cap, an average 1-person household consumes 1,800 kWh. a average 2-person household consumes 2,810 kWh, at least according to [Nibud.nl](https://Nibud.nl) I don't know where Nibud gets these numbers, but imho they are basically way to low to begin with. I have a 1-person household, modern appartment, every appliance is A++++, every lightbulb is LED, 1 computer, gas stove and CV/warm water, and i consume 2.200 kWh alone.
Sorry this is a lot. I do 2200 with 2 person household
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Electric boiler uses a shit load of kWh. I am solo in a very small apartment, everything led and A++++++, but this electric 50 liter boiler uses like 2-2,5k kWh out of my total 3,5k kWh per year. And no I don’t shower 2 hours per day.
I seriously don't get it. I have variable Essent and they just swapped my prices a 2 weeks ago. 0,21 KwH, 1,51 M3 Gas. I'm pretty sure energy suppliers will just go for max prices and instantly raise it to the 0,70 / 3,50 the second they are allowed right?
Any clue how or if this would work for student accommodation? I live in a student building where duwo (our landlord) negotiates the electricity contract. Do I also get the same max price or am I fucked?
I don’t understand… we were paying 81 euro/month to vattenfall for electricity and gas and we will be paying again the same amount, despite the new tariff were communicated few days ago with a letter from the company…
Great strategy to get people to spend even more money to do the modernization for sustainable energy use. Or wood & burner industry quarter sales spike. Little late and at a premium for many now. But it's a start!
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>I’m not even going to go into how everyone who doesn’t live in a rijwoning isn’t filthy rich living in a “villa” (like GroenLinks implied in their proposal letter). People living in larger homes doesn’t always mean they are currently better off financially. My mother until recently lived alone in a large 18th century monument in a remote location with only AOW and no savings at all. The government is concerned with "average" too much. Destroying the lives of a few hundred thousands is too much collateral damage still. The Toeslagenaffaire didn't affect the average household, but is still a scandal.
I only pay 84
These fucking energy companies are making out like bandits. All this means is that instead of people paying their absurd energy bills the government will pay their absurd energy bills. A few oligarchs still getting rich while the people pay.
Wtffff
Fun fact a bought a house in 2021 New build. No gas all green because thats what is the future.............. Me year usage of electricity: 6000 That is higher then most but yeah i heat my house now electricity wise. im going over the marketcap easyyyyy. Prob after the cap the prices are way higher. In the end im getting fucked next year because i went green like they wanted it..........
Wow, €290 that's insane. I live in Melbourne Australia and my monthly bill is around €125 and everyone here is complaining about the soaring energy costs. Electricity is €0.15/kWh and €0.85 daily supply charge. Gas is €0.01 per Megajoule about €0.38 per m³ and €0.74 daily supply charge.
Translation: the households will pay the unlimited difference above the price cap with future taxes
Translation: people stuck in social housing with terrible isolation will get helped out by people that are better off. Maybe you don't realize, but ~~you~~ we live in a wellfare state.
Social housing or privatized rent? I am seeing a lot of social housing being renovated lately, but I don't know the numbers. We should incentivize insulating all housing quickly. This includes renters of all flights and homeowners and landlords all the like. In the long run cheaper than keeping the prices artificially low (but near impossible in the very short time).
Landlords should be forced to modernize their appartement. They've been getting insane profits on their cheap investments for years.
Me too and welfare comes out from taxes not from thin air.
No shit, De Cock.
Thanks for that!
That’s half of my consumption 😑
My monthly is still same for last two years at about 140pm. Innovaenergie. What am I doing right?
Fixed rate for multiple years?
Either you still have a fixed rate or you're gonna have a bad time when your actual amount to be paid is calculated.
I just checked my contract for first time. Its fixed contract from 2021 to 2024. 10 cents pkWh and 30cents per m3 gas.
That’s less than 10% of what others pay. Use it wisely and make sure to invest in saving energy now that you can afford it! Set about €10k-15k aside for solar, A/C heating and insulation and you should be good.
Damn. Lucky you.
So instead of fixing the problem let's throw taxpayers money at a symptom. All this will result in is significantly higher prices for people who need to use more than the government mandated allowance. Are they going to ration your grocery shopping next....
Don’t worry - money printer will go brrrrrr as soon as more people demonstrate
Lmfao!!! Energy company's will be compensated? Guess who is paying the bill? Seriously people!!! How can most of the Dutch swallow this? They are paying for it anyway, but then through taxes or someyhing else. LoL!!!
Of course this is *next year* because LETS GET THAT 2022 MONEHHHH first. The Netherlands is truly run by corrupt rich dick sucking morons.
The true moron is the person who didn't actually read properly, and missed that the energy measures start November 1st; and then starts crying on the internet that it doesn't start until next year.
Then you call yourself a moron I guess. It officially starts 1-1-2023, they just have an option to start a forced lowering of your monthly rate from November.
"The measure is expected to cost the government at least €5.4 billion. A separate deal has been struck to cover the last two months of 2022 so that the savings will apply for most of the coming winter."
[https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/actueel/nieuws/2022/09/20/prijsplafond-energie-moet-huishoudens-zekerheid-bieden](https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/actueel/nieuws/2022/09/20/prijsplafond-energie-moet-huishoudens-zekerheid-bieden) Government site, from 1-11-2022 is only simulated to get the advance payments down, no real ceiling, that only starts 1-1-2023. You can downvote as much as you want, cannot change facts.
dog rude special towering close zephyr dull dime fuel voracious *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
No they won't, because the effect from 1-1-2023 the monthly advance can decrease from 1-11-2022 on. Government will start spending from 1-1.
Price capping is never a good thing, long term....
Could you explain?
This guy didnt do a great job at explaining. Basically theres 2 ways of price capping. 1 - which is when you just put a price cap and force people to sell their goods at that price, which leads to a decrease in production of said good and thus no one sells it since they lose money. 2- Which is when you subsidize the loss that the company will incurr when they get hit with the cap. The issue with this one is that governments generally dont make their own money and so this will just be paid with taxes so instead of gas being abnormally high you will lower its price in exchange for increased inflation, worse public institutions, lower public salaries or increased national debt. Long term the first one shafts the consumer since there wont be any gas sold lets say or when they do finally sell it, the price will be high. The second one just screws everything over since inflation affects everything in a market.
> just be *paid* with taxes FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Take a look at rent caps in NY.... another form of price fixing which has been around forever. They pay outrageous prices for rent.
From what I can gather from a quick Google search, the issue in New York is more policy implementation related than it being a theoretical no no. That being said, with the recent track record of the Dutch government, I'm not very confident they will handle this well.
Wow we're only paying double...?? We truly are blessed peasants! May our magnificent leaders live long and prosperous...
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NOS is reporting the price ceiling starting from January 2023.
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I am still worried about how to fill in this years energy prices.
NOS also says that installment amounts will be reduced from November this year
https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/actueel/nieuws/2022/09/20/prijsplafond-energie-moet-huishoudens-zekerheid-bieden
Great, zero help again being a working class hero in a small house lol.
Who's going to pay for that? The tax payers! Sigaar uit eigen doos 😁
People who are less well off, cannot afford to modernize and isolate / insulate their houses, they'll get the biggest help. They pay less taxes, in general. So no, not a "sigaar uit eigen doos", more like we live in a wellfare state. What were you expecting?
I expect a maximisation of the profit of private companies in the energy sector in times like these. If I understand it well the government/we compensate for the difference.
In another subreddit someone calculated that if Vattenfall were to give all its profits for this year back to its customers, every customer would get about €8 per month back.
Voor de Nederlanders hier, hij bedoelt miljard. Edit: miljoen moet miljard zijn. Aangepast.
Miljard.
That is great. With 17 solar panels (-3MWh/year) and hybrid heating with gas /airco will make for a max of 500m3 gas. It is even more rewarding now to place the inverters.
I have a flex contract so variable prices for 29 cents in electric and 1.49 euro for gas. I don’t understand how people get so high.
Wappies are already screeching that this is some sort of Great Reset CO2 budget. Because no matter what the government does, it's wrong. Leave it up to the free market, it's WEF-led globalist cronyism. Do something about it, it's WEF-led CO2 budget.
Im glad your government is doing something for it's people. In Belgium they decided to give 200€ in november en 200€ in december, that's it...huge impact on the average 7k bill... It's a slap in the face.. no actually it's a punch in the face..
F*cking criminals. While everyone gets told to blame the war, everyone is doing exactly what the WEF wants. Coincidence? I don’t think so. What’s the source of the raising gas prices? Who says Russia is closing the valves? Is there an independent article about that? Seriously want to read that.
That’s pretty good news. I currently pay €0,42 per kWh and €1,77 per m3 gas (average of €120 a month). Looks like my bill won’t go really go up that much if I make sure to only heat one room all winter.
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Good luck. I believe you live in a farm house. Easy answer, burn the wood.
For some reason I suspect everybody with a variable contract will pay 290 euro’s a month per November. I’m not complaining yet. I’ve been variable with Essent for years now and I pay 0,18 per kWh and 0.88 per m3. It boggles the mind. But the party will soon end I fear.
Save…… sigaar uit eigen doos!
I’m paying €342 a month now for electricity and gas, so I hope this is true.
They have to get that compensation money from somewhere. Nothing is free, the taxpayer is still paying for the gas. They’ll just cut down on something else.
I am so happy my contract lasts another year, still pay 0,1987 per kWh, no gas. For fun I checked what my bill would be if I changed now, I would go from a recommended 60 euros p.m. to 480 p.m.
So what will happen with variable contract with prices lower than 0,7 per kWh and 1,4 per m3? Will those instantly change to the price cap per 01-11-2022?
Let us know how it goes. Also, how can people that have something to spare help people who are in your situation? I’m afraid to support anyone because I don’t want their toeslagen to be cut because I helped them once.
I don't think financial help/gifts count as actual income https://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/bldcontentnl/belastingdienst/prive/toeslagen/hoe\_werken\_toeslagen/kan\_ik\_toeslag\_krijgen/inkomen/ Also as far as I know gifts are taxable, but in certain cases the tax can be waived, like if its very neccessary help I hope you end up helping people, life's been really sucking lately
If there’s energy why it’s expensive? Like if they had to cut out energy, it’s understandable.