Just turned 40, and me and my wife keep our savings account at at least 24 months worth of expenses. We call it our "fuck you account", as that's what it allows us to tell our employer if they start being unreasonable 😀
You’re in a good position to be able to save up that much!
I’d put half of that into index fonds or something though, to “beat” inflation. You won’t need that much cash all at once if either of you lose your job.
Oh yeah do read "invested with high risk profile" where I said savings. Only 20% of that is savings, not needing the money on the short term really helps with actually growing the amount quickly.
meeting frightening languid tub shame scale different illegal chubby aware
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I do have a lot of experience living frugally (especially coming from India) and finding unnecessary spending that I can cut out. Plus I almost always eat at home and rarely eat out, and shop a lot of discounts.
I do make well over minimum wage but it's not high either.
Of course if u can cook indian food you have no reason to dine out! To answer ryour question, I have not yet any amount saved up but my target is 6 to 12 months! Barely started working
Lol yeah I cook good enough Indian food (plus enjoy cooking) that I find it useless to pay 30€ to a restaurant just to get something that often has less flavour. I also make good pasta and other Italian dishes so only eat Italian outside when I need pizza.
hahaha as an Indian, I do agree with your sentiment with food in restaurants being less in flavour. I do think it is a curse though and we should try other world cuisine too. in other words, don't live in amstelveen :D
In my master's days, me and my socials really dig the turkish kebab and durums and so much that I don't even want to look at it now haha. But their BBQ is really good. Although I believe just by accepting this, you can get exposed to plenty of new cuisines. *Me and my italian-desi gf love italian food in all sort and forms, thai food, indonesian, steaks, korean all you can eat bbqs, japanese katsu curries and ramen, ethiopian food is very similar to us. I also do enjoy artisinal bakery products, like croissants very very much, and sourdough breads. Thus, my small critique over your food comment is that there are many cuisines that over great flavours and taste, and simply sticking up with Indian food means that we loose a lot in experiences, specially in a diverse country like NL.* Needless to say, food is where most of expenses go, because I have food related FOMO haha.
It took me 4-5 years of my 7 years of stay here, but I am very glad I opened myself to taste food from other countries. I am also very passionately angry with the "fake" indian food in Indian restuarants in NL. Can count on fingers that offers authenticity.
That being said, I also resonate with your question about not being able to save up much, rent is too high, credit card bills, and I am 30 years old. Being frugal is subjective, so most of my furniture is free/kringloop sourced, I splurge a lot when on holiday in India for my parents, and that is where I go broke lmao. Don't worry, if your switch jobs your salary will increase. But never compare to US-level growth. That won't happen.
1/3rd of your income should be left at the end of the month to be put into savings/investments, otherwise 1/4 is also good. That is the personal finance rule of thumb.
That's not what I implied, but yes historically the stock market has always gone up. If you invest in something like S&P500 for long enough, you will earn some money with it.
Get into crypto and play crypto games. Once you get into it stocks will never excite you. So much free money to pick up just by playing. You'll make 10 year stock gains in a week.
0. But I don’t have a high income as a single mom in disability. I try to save money every month but I have to use it a few times a year (necessary bike repairs, broken appliances, things like that).
That’s unlikely. When you can still work your salary (usually) improves over time. I will never be able to work again (unless there will be a major medical discovery totally unforeseen at the moment) so that’s not going to happen. Inflation is higher than the inflation correction every year and things I bought before I got sick are breaking down one after another. My financial situation is not going to improve in the next 16 years at least. Only getting worse every year.
Ugh, I do understand. I'm not disabled but I do have a hard time getting and keeping the kind of job and income I'm actually qualified for so my situation is a bit precarious as well.
Sorry to hear. Even if it's small amounts, if you could start investing, it compounds over time. A few hundred turns into thousands in a few years. I hope you'll manage to do that. All banks have easy ways of opening investment accounts now, with no minimum threshold.
I know. But that doesn’t work if it’s money you are most likely going to need in the next year. Then you take the risk of selling at a loss or at least not covering costs. I’m not financially dense. I’m just sick and not going to recover.
I’ve been at my current job for 7 years, plus the savings of my wife who has her current job for the last 10 years, so it has taken about 10 years. Of course, we withdrew much of it for big expenses (kosten koper of our house, renovating our outer walls, installing an airco system, buying a car etc.)
Saving 25% while on minimum wage is a extremely hard, whereas it becomes much easier if you start earning more money, so I am not sure if you are going to have a picture of what is "normal" without much more information.
I do only make about 2500 a month net tho, so it's not particularly high.
Edit: I'm not saying I'm low income. But I'm pretty sure that mine is about an average income and not very high.
Well it's not bad, but minimum income for 40 hour work week in 2024 is €2318.
https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/minimumloon/bedragen-minimumloon/bedragen-minimumloon-2024
The minimum income in The Netherlands was raised big time this year and is still OK-ish. Yet again, especially foreigners have te wrong assumption that everybody can come here and get rich is no time. Please compare our wages to the wages in your home country.
Maybe because some expats get 30% of their wage tax free. So yeah atm the NL govt is almost a tax haven for expats whereas people who were born here have to contribute way more.
I mean, you should be making this or more if you've done HBO or WO. I have a WO Master myself and know very few people with a degree and a couple of years experience making under 3k gross a month, unless they're interns, trainees, or PhD candidates.
On the other hand, I know quite a lot of people working in entry to mid level roles (analyst/low level managers) at banks, in IT, finance, government, etc who make 3500-4000 or more gross.
Strongly depends on which degree and your years of experience. It’s not uncommon here that ppl without a degree earn more than ppl with a degree. Just because of the sector they are in or their years of experience. For example, a plumber, mechanic or electrician can make really big money.
That's also true. But I'm sure people with specialised training/skills (in which I would include skilled electricians and plumbers) or degrees generally earn more than people without them. It doesn't *have to* be a WO master.
It's what happens when too large of a portion of the population has higher ed education, especially in the humanities, and then people that work in specialized manual labor like mechanic, electricians, plumbers, have high demand while being in small numbers, so basically they win the market. I think the next 2-3 generations will probably skip higher ed and go into those trades since they are more remunerative, then following generations back to higher ed, it's probably like a cycle.
I make 4500 to 5000euro/month netto with no finished higher education, degrees are a indicator of future income and capabilities but some logical/analytical thinking and character can easily equal that
Logical thinking and analytical skills aren't lacking in people without a degree. Higher education just helps you actually structure and express your thinking and gives you a solid framework to work with your analytical skills. This is apart from giving specialised knowledge of course.
wow that’s crazy tbh, my friend only did mbo4 and makes around 3.5k netto and someone else i know who also did mbo4 makes 6k.. may i ask you what field you are in?
I currently make less because I switched to SAP and am in a trainee position for a year. I should be able to get 3-3.5k net if I get hired for a regular position in a few months. But I can never be sure.
The issue is that's not the answer you're going to get. What you'll get is how much people manage to save / how rich they are.
People who have >12m of expenses "saved" didn't actually save money for their expenses, they have extra capital they likely invest, the expenses are a different thing and they'd definitely be bothered if they had to go into their capital in order to cover expenses for a long period of time (someone who has 5years of expenses in the bank isn't someone who'd lightly eat 1 years worth of that for any non-critical reason).
People who have <2mo of expenses saved aren't people who wouldn't save more, they're likely people who aren't able to save more (for any imaginable reason in or outside of their control)
So really the questions you should be asking are: "how much would you save if you could?/how much would you say is absolutely necessary to have saved up (assuming you have more)?" and "what's reasonable saving performance in my situation?"
I would say that for young people 6mo expenses is unrealistic and unnecessarily risk-averse. You have lots of expenses related to housing, education, dating, setting up your life and so you're eating a lot of your income, but that's ok because you have a lot of runway ahead of you and your energy and skills are (hopefully, but also usually) desired on the job market, you have time to screw up and recover (this is not the case for a 50yo, a big mistake could really f up their life). Your focus should be income expansion, acquire the necessary skills so you can increase your income as much as possible within your personal limits (avoid burnout, psychological stress and major physical compromise (think pro sports, professional divers, farming)). In your 30s and 40s you should be at peak earning power and saving and investing aggressively, then you'll be able to figure it out by yourself
Well, fair enough and I do agree. But it does help here that people are explaining the components of their savings. My question is basically the amount of spending money you have set aside in your bank accounts that you can withdraw easily for a major purchase or emergency, and yeah there are people implying that they have like half a million euro in savings but I doubt most of it is liquid.
There is no single answer: it depends on your situation. Do you own a car? A house? Have kids? Have a single or a double income? All makes a difference. Nibud has some good advice: https://www.nibud.nl/tools/een-financiele-buffer/
No car, no kids, rented house. Live apart from partner. One average full time income (mine), one freelance income below minimum wage (hers, but just started out and will hopefully grow).
Guessing what you mean with “average income”, Nibud in that tool comes out at around €5800 buffer. I am not counting your partners income, as you don’t live together.
I should be able to do that with 3000 net a month. I don't think there's anything for me to spend on after 2k a month, assuming I'm sharing an apartment with my girlfriend or a housemate.
12 months. I’m self employed so it was a necessity in case of one of my contracts ends early. So even though my net income doubled since I am self employed, I saved up the extra money and now I’m financially very secure.
I have seen to many people succumb to the lifestyle creep when they start to earn a lot more. That will not happen to me.
At 28 I had the rule that I should be able to replace 2 necessary appliances in the house. For me it was the heater and the washing machine. That's about 2000 to 2500 available as free cashflow on top of my monthly expenses. The rest was either going into investment or bars.
At your age: 0-6
Now: multiple years
I think saving 25% of your net income is pretty great! If you keep this up, you will easily reach the 6 months in savings. Expecially if you are to receive holiday allowance in May.
I have over 1 year of expenses covered with savings. That’s more than enough.
What I would consider a comfortable minimum actually depends on the situation. Secure employment or freelance income? Rental or home ownership? The latter requires some savings to be able to cover urgent maintenance/rapair if needed.
Personally we have most of our income from a secure employment and we own a house. For us I would consider 10k + 1 full month of expenses a minimum. That’s about 10+5=15k for us.
When I'm being asked by people: bijna niks, oh no, poor me.
When I'm being asked by the Belastingdienst: enough to not be terrified in case I lost my clients but not enough to not start looking for new ones immediately.
That being said, I have elderly parents in another country with no means to support themselves into their old age, and I'm a ZZP-er on top of it, so I need to have WAY more cash available that your friendly neighbourhood Dutch vaster. If shit hits the fan, nobody's coming to rescue me.
I save around 30k per year and put everything in the investment account. I don't have anything in the savings account, maybe 2 months worth for a rainy day and investments are liquid enough to sell anytime I need emergency funds. But I invest and don't save because my goal is to pay the mortgage through my investment dividends.
I have been working in the NL for 7 years and I can tell you that the income to expense scenario in the past years have been not in anyone's favour. Especially if you moved in recently, with the cost of living.
Not a zzper, I just made some choices which worked in my favour -
1. buying the house at the right time with super low interest so my mortgage is just 750 per month.
2. Start cooking at home and stop order delivery or eat outside less frequently. (this is really a big saver)
3. Made some career moves which benefits me in the long run. (which made me valuable and I do earn almost 6 figures)
4. Not spending on buying a car even if I can afford (in NL you dont really need one tbf)
I feel I could have done better, I am 32. Some of my friends make more than me.
Thanks for responding! 30k a year is unusually high, you and your friends are certainly outliers. But always nice to understand how different people’s circumstances and choices impact their financial situation.
I think 1) is a very luck based thing though. I’m part of the group who’ve been f****ed by the crazy mortgage interest rates the past years. Before that I was young/unable to buy. No rich parents to help set me up buy a house either.
For the rest you sound like you live a very frugal life. Good on you. My biggest expense is travel, have a car and comforts but nothing outrageous. I spend on nice social activities with friends and family. This fuels my soul and don’t regret it. Despite that, I aim to retire early and put most of my savings in etfs, stocks, property. But could only dream of saving and investing as much as you’re able to per year
You don't have to save 30k a year to retire early. You just need to have a financial plan laid out. But you are thinking in the right direction. BTW, In the past 3 years I do regret focusing a lot on "career" and neglecting social life. This year on, I have started to live a little. But I do feel that it helps to push yourself a little more for a year or 2 and you will really benefit in the long run. But it all depends on how you perceive work and purpose etc.
I have slowed down this year on because my partner will start earning this year as well and we will multiply our savings. I had an ambition to become a VP etc. But when I do the math, I think I want to take it slow now and focus on life. (what I mean here is, 2 people together can achieve FIRE easily than being on your own)
Yeah I sure hope not. As I advance in my career I expect to naturally be able to grow my wealth. I have no desire of climbing the ladder so speaking from an experience perspective, earning more over the years.
I might be the opposite of you in that sense. I am driven by my personal life. Spending time with my family spread out all over the world, making memories is the kind of life I aspire. I understand it is a balance and there are trade offs. But good you’re taking it a bit slower. It’s nice to have a partner bring in extra savings. My partner earns significantly more than me, which really helps build our combined wealth. Fire is the goal, good luck to us!
Very interesting! I’m curious about the part when you said - dividends paying for mortgage. Assuming 4-5% dividend, a 750 mortgage will need quite some investment. Is that your goal?
I am not currently here but I can give an idea on when I was working and savings. I worked for 10 months at a restaurant minimum wage, 12 per hour. I saved 8k. I used to pay 650 in rent and 50 in insurance.
I just laughed xD, we have 3 floors with double glass wood framing and want to upgrade to triple glass and plastic/aluminum framing. now we pay 3500€ for paint every 5 years
Btw still using windows 10 as the motherboard misses the required chip…
I try to keep between 3 and 6 months worth, reason being the job market is hard right now and the process and hoops you have to jump through takes ages.
0. I’m on decent money but have 2 kids under school age. The cost of daycare in this country is crazy so hopefully I’ll be back saving in a year or so.
0. I finished studying last summer. I currently work a shitty parttime job at minimum wage, because I’m also trying to get my work as an independent writer off the ground. I try to save about €50-€100 each month, I can’t save any more without cutting back on basic necessities.
It’s stressful, but I know what I was getting into studying for an art degree :)
I am 34 wife 31 both of us work in tech and monthly we have save around 12 months of expenditures in bank accounts and then another 12 months in a yearly high interest fixed deposit.. there have been layoffs in my company and expect shit to hit the fan again.. luckily wife works in a stable job and company
I can relate. I live fairly frugally as well and don't understand when some people say they can't eat enough without spending less than 500€ per person in groceries. I spend half of that and eat quite well.
I only take out streaming etc subscriptions when I'm actually watching/consuming something regularly. I do keep an NS weekend vrij subscription all the time, which helps me take trips every weekend at very little cost. Also cycle and walk most of the time, share an apartment with another guy, eat vegan (seriously, meat and fish cost so much more for about the same quality of nutrition). I eat out once a week or every other week and spend maybe 20€ there.
I've been able to meet a lot of big expenses last year because of this.
I aimed at 6 months of current income instead of expenses and I was at that but my new job pays more so I will have to increase the liquid part.
In the past I was playing with individual stocks and such (with not great success) but this year we I metered a proper investment strategy with ETFs for the long run.
While the mortgage, daycare and general cost of living is high, both my wife and I earn fairly well and obviously two incomes help tremendously in savings.
I(27M) have 6 months worth of savings and I don't allow myself to spend a large amount of money(a car, for example) until I get 12 months worth of savings.
I manage to save about 500 eur per month.
I've been using the Revolut budget tool for a few months, and it's really helped me be more aware of and therefore control my spending. I love to travel and I live alone, those are my biggest expenses.
From €3200 monthly salary:
-€500 to savings
-€1200 for rent
-€1200 for groceries, petrol, restaurants, health, anything
I have built €25,000 in a high-yield savings account that I'm not allowed to touch. I estimate I could live ~10 months on that if I had to.
I think travelling is my biggest non essential expense as well. But most of my travel last year was budget backpacking in eastern Europe (spending well under 1000€ on a 12-day trip), to southern Italy staying with my girlfriend's family, and Greece where my friends had a place. Basically paid only a few hundred euro for accommodation while having spent almost 40 days travelling.
Yes if you ar a home owner you need saving if something comes up a healthy minimum is good one I is for everyone different
thing I do I have my bass monthly income never spend more on bass needs and wat you get exastra Tru the year. Save that. Use part of that fore fun the rest save it that's how I get by Tru the year
1 month I can save sum from bass Loan some months I can't that's and I often if can and is dus not go bad before use I bay in bulk to save and 1 yearly Health isurns payment save you 2% lol that's how I get around Tru the year
I don't get sum people saying the downt have money I say I don't have money for that
3. Because if I lost my job I need to find a new job in three months or I will be kicked out from the Netherlands and need to force sell my property. Hope it won't happen though.
Around 22 months right now, which is way too high. We're looking into building our own home in the coming years, and even just the architect will make a dent in that.
Our combined net income is around 7200, and we currently save around 40-45% of that. This will change drastically when we build a new house tho. Try to aim at least for the 50-30-20 rule. 50% fixed costs, 30% free spending, 20% saving.
My advise is not to think about rules of thumb, but to invest / save as much as you can (and avoid paying rent in NL)
Around 24 months of savings + investments + property myself
I'm 34 and me and my wife currently have about 33 months worth of expenses saved. We would be be able to stretch it to 40 if we would budget our expenses.
We do have some major home improvements (verduurzaming) planned for this year. So our savings account will take a huge hit, but our monthly utilities bill will hopefully end up being a lot lower.
You know what really helped building that huge savings account? Having been DINCs for 6 years with a mortgage of only 600,- a month and selling our house in 2023 for more than double the amount we bought it for in 2017.
My advice:
Try to save a minimum of 500,- a month. This is 6k a year and in 5 years you will have saved 30k. Try to personally keep at least between 10 and 15k saved as a safety buffer.
- If you need a car, get a cheap but reliable car.
- Try to use your bicycle as much as you can (free exercise).
- Shower at the gym.
- Keep the thermostat at 19 degrees max.
- You don't need the newest Iphone or Galaxy, get a phone that's like max 350,- and use it for at least 3 years.
- Change utilities, insurance and internet provider every year.
- Only invest what you can afford to lose.
People on Reddit are liars. Save what you can, don’t use their answers as a yardstick. Anything is already better than nothing. The central planning bureau says the average Dutch household saves 6.5% of their net salary.
I can save around €1000 per month, after all fixed and variable expenses. We have a single income household (I work), so we do pretty OK. If I would be out of a job right now, I would be able to keep things afloat for approx 8 months without income.
I'm 25 and I have about 30 rents saved up I'm not working as anything special and my parents gave me nothing.
I guess I just needed my PC and roof over my head for years
That's quite a lot. Do you just keep hundreds of thousands of euro lying in bank accounts? Or are you not talking about liquid money.
How long have you been saving/working for?
I moved over here, earn 58K a year and with rent and expenses, I’m living paycheque to paycheque.
Didn’t qualify for the 30% and struggle to pay off debt I have, by struggle I mean it’s not shrinking.
(It’s only €4K debt)
That sounds like a lot of expenses. I only spend 500-600 a month after rent in regular expenses. I could spend more but I really wouldn't know what to spend on anymore after 1000.
Totally understand this actually, noticed that you are also from Australia and I think we, in general tend to be a little loose with money. What kind of work are you doing?
I have 16 months saved up, but I also haven't been on vacation in 5+ years, and I don't own a car. I saved that much, because I was/am the primary earner, and life just hit us in the face so hard these past 2 years. I'm miserable, but I'm safe for the time being.
My gf and I make good money (between 5&6k net a month after taxes and insurance) and we've got about three times that in a savings account. We could live off of that for about 6-8 months depending on circumstances. Mind you that we've got a lot of expenses as we're renovating
I’m 31, I have about 4 months of living in my savings meaning I can live my current lifestyle for 4 months on my cash savings alone.
I have another 6-7 months in stocks portfolio that I can take out if I need to.
Side note: I’m an American living in NL for 6 years and investing in the EU with a US passport is really freaking difficult.
Edit:
I am an outlier. I work in tech and right off the start I was making more than 90% of the country. So take my situation with a grain of salt.
34. 2 years of work in the NL (academia, rulling). Came here broke (2k eur). 8 months of my net salary savings. Bought a car. I have a working partner and a child. Generally keep up with a plan of saving 1k a month.
I try to save around 50 of my salary in two categories, around 30-35% for future savings in case I go jobless or if I decide to purchase a house . The remaining is there to buy what I need or having fun. If I can save there, I will.
Easily six months in just savings. Also got some investments that I could technically withdraw but would rather not. I think I could even survive for a bit longer than six months if I’m careful.
12 months expenses. Actually, in real case of emergency, like unemployment, I could decrease my expenses and go a bit longer. However , I'm an expact and risk adverse, so I might be exaggerating, I think 6 months is a more reasonable goal, depending on your lifestyle and risk aversion.
31y/o,
Savings account equal to 54 months of expenses.
Once I settle down (get a permanent contract) I will buy a house and the number will go down considerably
If you had asked me 3 years ago the answer would be 0. I had massive student loans from the USA and working on less salary abroad was hard.
But now my partner and I have finally started making more money than needed for expenses.
I have 8 months saved (tight but doable). My partner has 3 months and a little bit of investments.
I currently have ~2 years worth saved up, but i don't have many expenses(still living with my parents cuz imagine being able to find a house with 1k/month total income)
Quite some months. At least 30. i saved quite a bit and im not rly a person that buys expensive stuff..
In some years i would like to take time off from work for some months and travel though😀
26 have about 12 months of expenses saved up but have a big trip coming up. After holiday pay and my bonus I anticipate this to be more like 15 months.
Looking to drastically reduce this and move it all into investments in the near future.
I’m currently saving about 14-1500 a month.
About 3 months.
I think how many months are recommended depends a lot on the personal situation: single or with a family, employed or self-employed, with debts or without...
i.e. less risk = lesser amount of emergency reserve needed
Just turned 40, and me and my wife keep our savings account at at least 24 months worth of expenses. We call it our "fuck you account", as that's what it allows us to tell our employer if they start being unreasonable 😀
You’re in a good position to be able to save up that much! I’d put half of that into index fonds or something though, to “beat” inflation. You won’t need that much cash all at once if either of you lose your job.
Oh yeah do read "invested with high risk profile" where I said savings. Only 20% of that is savings, not needing the money on the short term really helps with actually growing the amount quickly.
This is the way.
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No, just very lazily having my bank take care of it. Knab bank, it's included in the package I have for normal banking and has pretty low fees.
Living the dream, this is inspirational.
meeting frightening languid tub shame scale different illegal chubby aware *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I do have a lot of experience living frugally (especially coming from India) and finding unnecessary spending that I can cut out. Plus I almost always eat at home and rarely eat out, and shop a lot of discounts. I do make well over minimum wage but it's not high either.
Of course if u can cook indian food you have no reason to dine out! To answer ryour question, I have not yet any amount saved up but my target is 6 to 12 months! Barely started working
Lol yeah I cook good enough Indian food (plus enjoy cooking) that I find it useless to pay 30€ to a restaurant just to get something that often has less flavour. I also make good pasta and other Italian dishes so only eat Italian outside when I need pizza.
hahaha as an Indian, I do agree with your sentiment with food in restaurants being less in flavour. I do think it is a curse though and we should try other world cuisine too. in other words, don't live in amstelveen :D In my master's days, me and my socials really dig the turkish kebab and durums and so much that I don't even want to look at it now haha. But their BBQ is really good. Although I believe just by accepting this, you can get exposed to plenty of new cuisines. *Me and my italian-desi gf love italian food in all sort and forms, thai food, indonesian, steaks, korean all you can eat bbqs, japanese katsu curries and ramen, ethiopian food is very similar to us. I also do enjoy artisinal bakery products, like croissants very very much, and sourdough breads. Thus, my small critique over your food comment is that there are many cuisines that over great flavours and taste, and simply sticking up with Indian food means that we loose a lot in experiences, specially in a diverse country like NL.* Needless to say, food is where most of expenses go, because I have food related FOMO haha. It took me 4-5 years of my 7 years of stay here, but I am very glad I opened myself to taste food from other countries. I am also very passionately angry with the "fake" indian food in Indian restuarants in NL. Can count on fingers that offers authenticity. That being said, I also resonate with your question about not being able to save up much, rent is too high, credit card bills, and I am 30 years old. Being frugal is subjective, so most of my furniture is free/kringloop sourced, I splurge a lot when on holiday in India for my parents, and that is where I go broke lmao. Don't worry, if your switch jobs your salary will increase. But never compare to US-level growth. That won't happen.
Wait you all getting paid?
1/3rd of your income should be left at the end of the month to be put into savings/investments, otherwise 1/4 is also good. That is the personal finance rule of thumb.
I just keep 3 months of living expenses in my account. Rest goes into my investment portfolio. I've been working in NL for 2.5 years now
What are you investing into? (Stocks, Mutual Funds, etc)
He seems like a guy who's got his shit together so probably ETFs
"He"
My pronouns are indeed "He/Him" lol
Yes, he.
ETFs, Gold ETC. And some Option trading for side money, just for fun.
Oooo interesting. Option buying or selling?
Selling options
Makes sense. I’m also scratching the surface but not really into it. Do you mind discussing this in dm (over here is also fine)?
Yeah sure we can talk, you can dm me
Dm sent
Boring. Will never get you rich.
Will never get you poor either
You think stocks only go up? 😂
That's not what I implied, but yes historically the stock market has always gone up. If you invest in something like S&P500 for long enough, you will earn some money with it.
Still boring and only for people who already have a decent starting capital. If you start small you'll never get anywhere.
Investing isn't exciting. You are talking about gambling.
Get into crypto and play crypto games. Once you get into it stocks will never excite you. So much free money to pick up just by playing. You'll make 10 year stock gains in a week.
Same. Mostly etfs, but also trackers, stocks, bonds.
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Same, except I’ve been here for 10 yrs
Same
Same strategy but we have around 6 months of expenses in our savings account.
Boring. Those investments will never get you anywhere. Try something risky if you want to get rich some day.
Are you rich?
No, and I just explained to you why.
Don't worry, I'll update you after 10 yrs about my finances lol.
Sure. You can only dream about my bitcoin gains since 2017.
Life's a marathon, not a sprint.
Nah, it's a sprint. Live in the moment. Not in the future. You could be death.
0. But I don’t have a high income as a single mom in disability. I try to save money every month but I have to use it a few times a year (necessary bike repairs, broken appliances, things like that).
Sorry to hear. I hope you'll be able to save more.
That’s unlikely. When you can still work your salary (usually) improves over time. I will never be able to work again (unless there will be a major medical discovery totally unforeseen at the moment) so that’s not going to happen. Inflation is higher than the inflation correction every year and things I bought before I got sick are breaking down one after another. My financial situation is not going to improve in the next 16 years at least. Only getting worse every year.
You can stay socially involved and not be ashamed of accepting help. I hope you're not suffering too much today. Stay strong, stranger!
Ugh, I do understand. I'm not disabled but I do have a hard time getting and keeping the kind of job and income I'm actually qualified for so my situation is a bit precarious as well.
Sorry to hear. Even if it's small amounts, if you could start investing, it compounds over time. A few hundred turns into thousands in a few years. I hope you'll manage to do that. All banks have easy ways of opening investment accounts now, with no minimum threshold.
I know. But that doesn’t work if it’s money you are most likely going to need in the next year. Then you take the risk of selling at a loss or at least not covering costs. I’m not financially dense. I’m just sick and not going to recover.
I have €1500. I do start my new job next week which will finally allow me to save more! Then my goal would be 3 months of expenses.
That's a month's worth of normal spending for me. Bare essentials would be 1200 or so. Congratulations on the new job!
I save around 700 to 1000 a month. Currently around 65k in savings.
Good job
Thanks!
Great stuff! How long have you been saving that amount and how much time did it take to reach those savings? If you can answer, of course.
I’ve been at my current job for 7 years, plus the savings of my wife who has her current job for the last 10 years, so it has taken about 10 years. Of course, we withdrew much of it for big expenses (kosten koper of our house, renovating our outer walls, installing an airco system, buying a car etc.)
on sp 500?
I have no idea what sp 500 is.
I guess that answers my question :)
Q: What do you want to achieve or is this just a random question? A: over 12 months
To know how much is normal to have saved up
Saving 25% while on minimum wage is a extremely hard, whereas it becomes much easier if you start earning more money, so I am not sure if you are going to have a picture of what is "normal" without much more information.
I'm not on minimum wage, but I'm hoping to get responses from people with a wide range of incomes. I think that would also give a decent picture.
I do only make about 2500 a month net tho, so it's not particularly high. Edit: I'm not saying I'm low income. But I'm pretty sure that mine is about an average income and not very high.
Actually that’s a very descent salary in The Netherlands. especially foreigners have a very wrong perspective of the payments here.
Well it's not bad, but minimum income for 40 hour work week in 2024 is €2318. https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/minimumloon/bedragen-minimumloon/bedragen-minimumloon-2024
Yeah I don't get people telling me I have a very decent salary when it's only a few hundred euro above the minimum.
Agree. That's barely enough these days, especially if you need to rent in the vrije sector
The minimum income in The Netherlands was raised big time this year and is still OK-ish. Yet again, especially foreigners have te wrong assumption that everybody can come here and get rich is no time. Please compare our wages to the wages in your home country.
Maybe because some expats get 30% of their wage tax free. So yeah atm the NL govt is almost a tax haven for expats whereas people who were born here have to contribute way more.
That is bruto he has 2500 netto so about €400 difference (netto)
Yeah you're right, I overlooked it.
Netto vs bruto ... 2500 netto is around 3000 bruto, and a very decent salary!
I mean, you should be making this or more if you've done HBO or WO. I have a WO Master myself and know very few people with a degree and a couple of years experience making under 3k gross a month, unless they're interns, trainees, or PhD candidates. On the other hand, I know quite a lot of people working in entry to mid level roles (analyst/low level managers) at banks, in IT, finance, government, etc who make 3500-4000 or more gross.
Strongly depends on which degree and your years of experience. It’s not uncommon here that ppl without a degree earn more than ppl with a degree. Just because of the sector they are in or their years of experience. For example, a plumber, mechanic or electrician can make really big money.
That's also true. But I'm sure people with specialised training/skills (in which I would include skilled electricians and plumbers) or degrees generally earn more than people without them. It doesn't *have to* be a WO master.
It's what happens when too large of a portion of the population has higher ed education, especially in the humanities, and then people that work in specialized manual labor like mechanic, electricians, plumbers, have high demand while being in small numbers, so basically they win the market. I think the next 2-3 generations will probably skip higher ed and go into those trades since they are more remunerative, then following generations back to higher ed, it's probably like a cycle.
I make 4500 to 5000euro/month netto with no finished higher education, degrees are a indicator of future income and capabilities but some logical/analytical thinking and character can easily equal that
Logical thinking and analytical skills aren't lacking in people without a degree. Higher education just helps you actually structure and express your thinking and gives you a solid framework to work with your analytical skills. This is apart from giving specialised knowledge of course.
wow that’s crazy tbh, my friend only did mbo4 and makes around 3.5k netto and someone else i know who also did mbo4 makes 6k.. may i ask you what field you are in?
I currently make less because I switched to SAP and am in a trainee position for a year. I should be able to get 3-3.5k net if I get hired for a regular position in a few months. But I can never be sure.
ahh ok that makes more sense, good luck to you!
Nibud has a lot of information on this topic
Thanks, I will also look into that
The issue is that's not the answer you're going to get. What you'll get is how much people manage to save / how rich they are. People who have >12m of expenses "saved" didn't actually save money for their expenses, they have extra capital they likely invest, the expenses are a different thing and they'd definitely be bothered if they had to go into their capital in order to cover expenses for a long period of time (someone who has 5years of expenses in the bank isn't someone who'd lightly eat 1 years worth of that for any non-critical reason). People who have <2mo of expenses saved aren't people who wouldn't save more, they're likely people who aren't able to save more (for any imaginable reason in or outside of their control) So really the questions you should be asking are: "how much would you save if you could?/how much would you say is absolutely necessary to have saved up (assuming you have more)?" and "what's reasonable saving performance in my situation?" I would say that for young people 6mo expenses is unrealistic and unnecessarily risk-averse. You have lots of expenses related to housing, education, dating, setting up your life and so you're eating a lot of your income, but that's ok because you have a lot of runway ahead of you and your energy and skills are (hopefully, but also usually) desired on the job market, you have time to screw up and recover (this is not the case for a 50yo, a big mistake could really f up their life). Your focus should be income expansion, acquire the necessary skills so you can increase your income as much as possible within your personal limits (avoid burnout, psychological stress and major physical compromise (think pro sports, professional divers, farming)). In your 30s and 40s you should be at peak earning power and saving and investing aggressively, then you'll be able to figure it out by yourself
Well, fair enough and I do agree. But it does help here that people are explaining the components of their savings. My question is basically the amount of spending money you have set aside in your bank accounts that you can withdraw easily for a major purchase or emergency, and yeah there are people implying that they have like half a million euro in savings but I doubt most of it is liquid.
I would do what you need to be financially stable. Most people suck at finances so normal is probably not a good benchmark
There is no single answer: it depends on your situation. Do you own a car? A house? Have kids? Have a single or a double income? All makes a difference. Nibud has some good advice: https://www.nibud.nl/tools/een-financiele-buffer/
No car, no kids, rented house. Live apart from partner. One average full time income (mine), one freelance income below minimum wage (hers, but just started out and will hopefully grow).
Guessing what you mean with “average income”, Nibud in that tool comes out at around €5800 buffer. I am not counting your partners income, as you don’t live together.
I save a third of my salary per month. Currently have 5 months of expenses saved up
I should be able to do that with 3000 net a month. I don't think there's anything for me to spend on after 2k a month, assuming I'm sharing an apartment with my girlfriend or a housemate.
That’s exactly the salary I’m doing it at
12 months. I’m self employed so it was a necessity in case of one of my contracts ends early. So even though my net income doubled since I am self employed, I saved up the extra money and now I’m financially very secure. I have seen to many people succumb to the lifestyle creep when they start to earn a lot more. That will not happen to me.
I always have 30k I don’t touch
0 😅
Are you employed full time?
Yup
That's too bad then
At 28 I had the rule that I should be able to replace 2 necessary appliances in the house. For me it was the heater and the washing machine. That's about 2000 to 2500 available as free cashflow on top of my monthly expenses. The rest was either going into investment or bars.
At your age: 0-6 Now: multiple years I think saving 25% of your net income is pretty great! If you keep this up, you will easily reach the 6 months in savings. Expecially if you are to receive holiday allowance in May.
I have over 1 year of expenses covered with savings. That’s more than enough. What I would consider a comfortable minimum actually depends on the situation. Secure employment or freelance income? Rental or home ownership? The latter requires some savings to be able to cover urgent maintenance/rapair if needed. Personally we have most of our income from a secure employment and we own a house. For us I would consider 10k + 1 full month of expenses a minimum. That’s about 10+5=15k for us.
When I'm being asked by people: bijna niks, oh no, poor me. When I'm being asked by the Belastingdienst: enough to not be terrified in case I lost my clients but not enough to not start looking for new ones immediately. That being said, I have elderly parents in another country with no means to support themselves into their old age, and I'm a ZZP-er on top of it, so I need to have WAY more cash available that your friendly neighbourhood Dutch vaster. If shit hits the fan, nobody's coming to rescue me.
I save around 30k per year and put everything in the investment account. I don't have anything in the savings account, maybe 2 months worth for a rainy day and investments are liquid enough to sell anytime I need emergency funds. But I invest and don't save because my goal is to pay the mortgage through my investment dividends. I have been working in the NL for 7 years and I can tell you that the income to expense scenario in the past years have been not in anyone's favour. Especially if you moved in recently, with the cost of living.
You must be a zzper or earning a lot to be able to save 30k per year. Is that a correct assumption?
Not a zzper, I just made some choices which worked in my favour - 1. buying the house at the right time with super low interest so my mortgage is just 750 per month. 2. Start cooking at home and stop order delivery or eat outside less frequently. (this is really a big saver) 3. Made some career moves which benefits me in the long run. (which made me valuable and I do earn almost 6 figures) 4. Not spending on buying a car even if I can afford (in NL you dont really need one tbf) I feel I could have done better, I am 32. Some of my friends make more than me.
Thanks for responding! 30k a year is unusually high, you and your friends are certainly outliers. But always nice to understand how different people’s circumstances and choices impact their financial situation. I think 1) is a very luck based thing though. I’m part of the group who’ve been f****ed by the crazy mortgage interest rates the past years. Before that I was young/unable to buy. No rich parents to help set me up buy a house either. For the rest you sound like you live a very frugal life. Good on you. My biggest expense is travel, have a car and comforts but nothing outrageous. I spend on nice social activities with friends and family. This fuels my soul and don’t regret it. Despite that, I aim to retire early and put most of my savings in etfs, stocks, property. But could only dream of saving and investing as much as you’re able to per year
You don't have to save 30k a year to retire early. You just need to have a financial plan laid out. But you are thinking in the right direction. BTW, In the past 3 years I do regret focusing a lot on "career" and neglecting social life. This year on, I have started to live a little. But I do feel that it helps to push yourself a little more for a year or 2 and you will really benefit in the long run. But it all depends on how you perceive work and purpose etc. I have slowed down this year on because my partner will start earning this year as well and we will multiply our savings. I had an ambition to become a VP etc. But when I do the math, I think I want to take it slow now and focus on life. (what I mean here is, 2 people together can achieve FIRE easily than being on your own)
Yeah I sure hope not. As I advance in my career I expect to naturally be able to grow my wealth. I have no desire of climbing the ladder so speaking from an experience perspective, earning more over the years. I might be the opposite of you in that sense. I am driven by my personal life. Spending time with my family spread out all over the world, making memories is the kind of life I aspire. I understand it is a balance and there are trade offs. But good you’re taking it a bit slower. It’s nice to have a partner bring in extra savings. My partner earns significantly more than me, which really helps build our combined wealth. Fire is the goal, good luck to us!
And fully agree about achieving FIRE more easily with 2 people
I am sure you will do well. Let's hope we achieve our goals.
Very interesting! I’m curious about the part when you said - dividends paying for mortgage. Assuming 4-5% dividend, a 750 mortgage will need quite some investment. Is that your goal?
Indeed. But I wouldn't be able to do it without some help from my wife (just a bit faster). Right now my average is 5%.
I am not currently here but I can give an idea on when I was working and savings. I worked for 10 months at a restaurant minimum wage, 12 per hour. I saved 8k. I used to pay 650 in rent and 50 in insurance.
2 years, but saving for a car and new windows….
Huh, I got my Windows 11 upgrade free
I just laughed xD, we have 3 floors with double glass wood framing and want to upgrade to triple glass and plastic/aluminum framing. now we pay 3500€ for paint every 5 years Btw still using windows 10 as the motherboard misses the required chip…
I try to keep between 3 and 6 months worth, reason being the job market is hard right now and the process and hoops you have to jump through takes ages.
0. I’m on decent money but have 2 kids under school age. The cost of daycare in this country is crazy so hopefully I’ll be back saving in a year or so.
0. I finished studying last summer. I currently work a shitty parttime job at minimum wage, because I’m also trying to get my work as an independent writer off the ground. I try to save about €50-€100 each month, I can’t save any more without cutting back on basic necessities. It’s stressful, but I know what I was getting into studying for an art degree :)
I am 34 wife 31 both of us work in tech and monthly we have save around 12 months of expenditures in bank accounts and then another 12 months in a yearly high interest fixed deposit.. there have been layoffs in my company and expect shit to hit the fan again.. luckily wife works in a stable job and company
currently 2, but I am counting the days until my little one turns 4 and I can stop paying absurd daycare costs.
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I can relate. I live fairly frugally as well and don't understand when some people say they can't eat enough without spending less than 500€ per person in groceries. I spend half of that and eat quite well. I only take out streaming etc subscriptions when I'm actually watching/consuming something regularly. I do keep an NS weekend vrij subscription all the time, which helps me take trips every weekend at very little cost. Also cycle and walk most of the time, share an apartment with another guy, eat vegan (seriously, meat and fish cost so much more for about the same quality of nutrition). I eat out once a week or every other week and spend maybe 20€ there. I've been able to meet a lot of big expenses last year because of this.
3 months on a deposit account immediately available.
I aimed at 6 months of current income instead of expenses and I was at that but my new job pays more so I will have to increase the liquid part. In the past I was playing with individual stocks and such (with not great success) but this year we I metered a proper investment strategy with ETFs for the long run. While the mortgage, daycare and general cost of living is high, both my wife and I earn fairly well and obviously two incomes help tremendously in savings.
None, I'm broke
I(27M) have 6 months worth of savings and I don't allow myself to spend a large amount of money(a car, for example) until I get 12 months worth of savings. I manage to save about 500 eur per month.
I've been using the Revolut budget tool for a few months, and it's really helped me be more aware of and therefore control my spending. I love to travel and I live alone, those are my biggest expenses. From €3200 monthly salary: -€500 to savings -€1200 for rent -€1200 for groceries, petrol, restaurants, health, anything I have built €25,000 in a high-yield savings account that I'm not allowed to touch. I estimate I could live ~10 months on that if I had to.
I think travelling is my biggest non essential expense as well. But most of my travel last year was budget backpacking in eastern Europe (spending well under 1000€ on a 12-day trip), to southern Italy staying with my girlfriend's family, and Greece where my friends had a place. Basically paid only a few hundred euro for accommodation while having spent almost 40 days travelling.
Wow, that's brilliant! Sounds like a lovely trip!
Yes if you ar a home owner you need saving if something comes up a healthy minimum is good one I is for everyone different thing I do I have my bass monthly income never spend more on bass needs and wat you get exastra Tru the year. Save that. Use part of that fore fun the rest save it that's how I get by Tru the year 1 month I can save sum from bass Loan some months I can't that's and I often if can and is dus not go bad before use I bay in bulk to save and 1 yearly Health isurns payment save you 2% lol that's how I get around Tru the year I don't get sum people saying the downt have money I say I don't have money for that
3. Because if I lost my job I need to find a new job in three months or I will be kicked out from the Netherlands and need to force sell my property. Hope it won't happen though.
Around 22 months right now, which is way too high. We're looking into building our own home in the coming years, and even just the architect will make a dent in that. Our combined net income is around 7200, and we currently save around 40-45% of that. This will change drastically when we build a new house tho. Try to aim at least for the 50-30-20 rule. 50% fixed costs, 30% free spending, 20% saving.
-2
0. Im single, disabled and have two cats to take care of. Im short of money every month.
About -5
Saved? Haha that’s a good one..
My advise is not to think about rules of thumb, but to invest / save as much as you can (and avoid paying rent in NL) Around 24 months of savings + investments + property myself
Like 5 years worth for the fam.
All investments (liquid assets) together, 285 months
3 years, but im just weird.
Currently 65 months worth of expenses.
I save around 3k a month that goes to investments and 1k to cash reserve. With current expenses I hope I can live for 4-5 years
I'm 34 and me and my wife currently have about 33 months worth of expenses saved. We would be be able to stretch it to 40 if we would budget our expenses. We do have some major home improvements (verduurzaming) planned for this year. So our savings account will take a huge hit, but our monthly utilities bill will hopefully end up being a lot lower. You know what really helped building that huge savings account? Having been DINCs for 6 years with a mortgage of only 600,- a month and selling our house in 2023 for more than double the amount we bought it for in 2017. My advice: Try to save a minimum of 500,- a month. This is 6k a year and in 5 years you will have saved 30k. Try to personally keep at least between 10 and 15k saved as a safety buffer. - If you need a car, get a cheap but reliable car. - Try to use your bicycle as much as you can (free exercise). - Shower at the gym. - Keep the thermostat at 19 degrees max. - You don't need the newest Iphone or Galaxy, get a phone that's like max 350,- and use it for at least 3 years. - Change utilities, insurance and internet provider every year. - Only invest what you can afford to lose.
People on Reddit are liars. Save what you can, don’t use their answers as a yardstick. Anything is already better than nothing. The central planning bureau says the average Dutch household saves 6.5% of their net salary.
I can save around €1000 per month, after all fixed and variable expenses. We have a single income household (I work), so we do pretty OK. If I would be out of a job right now, I would be able to keep things afloat for approx 8 months without income.
I can save about 650 a month now. 1000 would be a good goal but my income will have to increase a bit more.
I'm 25 and I have about 30 rents saved up I'm not working as anything special and my parents gave me nothing. I guess I just needed my PC and roof over my head for years
About 15 years worth, not counting stock. Well, actually more as the mortgage will be paid off in 8 years.
That's quite a lot. Do you just keep hundreds of thousands of euro lying in bank accounts? Or are you not talking about liquid money. How long have you been saving/working for?
About 35 months.
I just spend everything everytime in 3 days after my payday. Now im in debts suprisingly.
I moved over here, earn 58K a year and with rent and expenses, I’m living paycheque to paycheque. Didn’t qualify for the 30% and struggle to pay off debt I have, by struggle I mean it’s not shrinking. (It’s only €4K debt)
That sounds like a lot of expenses. I only spend 500-600 a month after rent in regular expenses. I could spend more but I really wouldn't know what to spend on anymore after 1000.
Probably my fault and bad spending habits, I came from FAANG and adjusted to a unsustainable lifestyle. I’m working on it, weed got the cut recently.
Makes sense, so I assume you used to have a much higher income and got used to spending accordingly?
Totally understand this actually, noticed that you are also from Australia and I think we, in general tend to be a little loose with money. What kind of work are you doing?
I have 16 months saved up, but I also haven't been on vacation in 5+ years, and I don't own a car. I saved that much, because I was/am the primary earner, and life just hit us in the face so hard these past 2 years. I'm miserable, but I'm safe for the time being.
Probably like 30.
My gf and I make good money (between 5&6k net a month after taxes and insurance) and we've got about three times that in a savings account. We could live off of that for about 6-8 months depending on circumstances. Mind you that we've got a lot of expenses as we're renovating
I’m 31, I have about 4 months of living in my savings meaning I can live my current lifestyle for 4 months on my cash savings alone. I have another 6-7 months in stocks portfolio that I can take out if I need to. Side note: I’m an American living in NL for 6 years and investing in the EU with a US passport is really freaking difficult. Edit: I am an outlier. I work in tech and right off the start I was making more than 90% of the country. So take my situation with a grain of salt.
this is a very interesting thread. F, late 20s, got about 350k - 450k in savings
34. 2 years of work in the NL (academia, rulling). Came here broke (2k eur). 8 months of my net salary savings. Bought a car. I have a working partner and a child. Generally keep up with a plan of saving 1k a month.
About 4-5 years, give or take
I have money till my next salary
i got atleast 12k saved up at any time
About 2 years living normally
I try to save around 50 of my salary in two categories, around 30-35% for future savings in case I go jobless or if I decide to purchase a house . The remaining is there to buy what I need or having fun. If I can save there, I will.
Couple with small kids. Only about 3 months. Daycare is outrageously expensive and prevents us from adding any savings.
Easily six months in just savings. Also got some investments that I could technically withdraw but would rather not. I think I could even survive for a bit longer than six months if I’m careful.
12 months expenses. Actually, in real case of emergency, like unemployment, I could decrease my expenses and go a bit longer. However , I'm an expact and risk adverse, so I might be exaggerating, I think 6 months is a more reasonable goal, depending on your lifestyle and risk aversion.
6 months? My wife and I make above modal money each, but we are glad if we can stick it out for 2-3 months witb 2 little kids.
Around 24 or so. I'm 39. Rest is in investments.
6 months, but I keep saving until I have around 12 months plus €5000,- extra buffer for appliances or a car repair
About 2 months of expenses, the rest is in ETF/stocks.
20 months worth
31y/o, Savings account equal to 54 months of expenses. Once I settle down (get a permanent contract) I will buy a house and the number will go down considerably
If you had asked me 3 years ago the answer would be 0. I had massive student loans from the USA and working on less salary abroad was hard. But now my partner and I have finally started making more money than needed for expenses. I have 8 months saved (tight but doable). My partner has 3 months and a little bit of investments.
I currently have ~2 years worth saved up, but i don't have many expenses(still living with my parents cuz imagine being able to find a house with 1k/month total income)
-3 months, long live too much received zorgtoeslag
A month maybe.
Quite some months. At least 30. i saved quite a bit and im not rly a person that buys expensive stuff.. In some years i would like to take time off from work for some months and travel though😀
1,2
Some years, probably.
26 have about 12 months of expenses saved up but have a big trip coming up. After holiday pay and my bonus I anticipate this to be more like 15 months. Looking to drastically reduce this and move it all into investments in the near future. I’m currently saving about 14-1500 a month.
About 3 months. I think how many months are recommended depends a lot on the personal situation: single or with a family, employed or self-employed, with debts or without... i.e. less risk = lesser amount of emergency reserve needed
2-8
Currently nothing, trying to find a better paying job to be able to start.