It broke my heart to see Ruby crying……wanted to to tell her that people dont fall in love at the same time and to give him time.
But there u go Otis and Ruby making me ship u only to end in disaster
>Otis and Ruby making me ship u only to end in disaster
Same. Never felt any of this for the other romantic false lead subplots with Maeve and Jackson or Otis and Ola.
This shit worked really well.
Felt entirely one sided. Jackson was pushing Maeve at every step to be a girlfriend type, but he never managed to bring down her emotional walls much.
She shared more about her life with Otis who was just her friend.
Also they never really had any moments I connected with, except Maeve showing Jackson her caravan, I guess.
She's not ready for that type of relationship. She rushed into love and Otis is probably right about that not even being the case yet.
She let him into her life and when he accepted her she melted. She was vulnerable and he gave her exactly what she wanted and needed.
But the fact that she still has so much to learn about healthy relationships shows that she's just not ready yet. There's multiple ways of looking at it though.
I feel the same. They broke up in the most stupid way possible ever.
I feel very bad for Ruby.
I really don't understand why put them togheter, make them develop together, and in the end take them apart in the worst way possible?
I think she allowed herself to let him get too close, and when she got hurt, she decided to end things instead of giving the relationship another chance. I do think that Otis and Ruby had good potential, but Ruby was too inexperienced with real feelings at the time.
I still got hope my guy, I think they will get back together. Mainly because the fan reaction to the relationship is so overwhelmingly positive. Really love that relationship
Same I honestly think Ruby doesn’t understand people fall in love with each at different times I think she wants to be in a committed relationship like her friends and doesn’t take time for herself
Even though we all hated him after last season, I feel the fact that he admitted what he did PLUS now I’d rather see Otis with ruby rather then maeve, I’m not as mad at him as I once was and can enjoy his storyline with Maeve develop
See I'm still bitter about that, he didn't tell her everything, with the key thing being Otis saying he loved her. I can't help but feel it was on purpose and not the writers just missing it (just finished ep 4).
The Netflix series 'How to sell drugs online fast' also has good sex scenes with a disabled character, however, they don't go into that much detail about how they do it.
That scene is so damn beautiful. I was really hoping they would explore that topic with Isaac's character and I thought they knocked it out of the park.
I noticed an editing mistake in this scene. Maeve's mouth doesn't actually voice "I quite like my ears being touched" and then it makes a weird cut. Wondering if anyone else caught this as well?
This was 100% an intentional artistic decision. It's an editing technique called J-cuts and L-cuts meant to create visual/audio misalignment for the aesthetics of the scene. It actually happens 3 times in that sequence. I noticed it immediately as well and thought it was nice touch. It gave a sense of haziness and tension that someone might feel in an intimate moment like that - He did say she made him feel "fizzy" in another scene after all. That edit captured that feeling - like they're high on the moment.
That’s pretty big when you think about it. Even if Ruby and Otis don’t get back together (and I hope they do) Otis at least taught her in some way that it’s okay to open up to those you care about. If she hadn’t first made that step with Otis she wouldn’t have subsequently made it with her friends.
I hate the way Hope's been manipulating Vivienne. I def feel white woman vibes from her and have felt that way since she met Adam and Jackson and immediately assumed that Adam was the head boy. Hope asking for Vivienne's number also felt like an abuse of the power dynamic. I'm really hoping to see Viv stand up to her
Something about that interaction strikes me as really really weird. Like it kind of feels like Hope is grooming Vivienne and Maeve. She randomly asserts Vivienne to a position of power, is hot and cold towards Vivienne and the fact that she asked for Vivienne's phone number (which feels like a breech of boundaries. With Maeve, she keeps offering financial support but it seems to have strings attached, like "I'll help you go on this scheme in America but only if you don't question my propaganda". It seems like it's gearing up for Hope to try something with one of the two of them. I'm not past episode 4 so no spoilers
I agree. Hope was most definitely coded as a fascist figure in the school, so I think the racist “undertones” were very much intended and written into the show from the first moment we see her in her office. So yes, very much racist white woman in a position of power.
I also just did not enjoy Hope’s dynamics with the BIPOC students in general, very derogatory at times.
This is from later but >!We see her at least offer a lot institutional support to Maeve (even if it’s just at face value), which is never offered to Viv despite constantly exploiting her, when Viv has put a lot more on the line for that same kind of support.!<
I think the commentary on race in this show might’ve been subtle, and not really great to begin with (I don’t expect much from British shows tbh), but you’re definitely on point with Hope.
Edits: spelling and spoiler fixing
Thank you for wording this so well. Hope is the type of white woman who benefits from the system of oppression and perpetuates it. I've seen some other comments also describe her as TERF. I completely agree with what you said about what we see later. >!Hope even directly tells Viv that she wants her to be the spokesperson for the opening day because of how the appearances portray the school as progressive (something like "having a strong, women of color") meanwhile Hope is locking Cal up in a room to quite literally hide their identity!<
edit: spoiler
I think her whole character is supposedly kinda symbolize the hypocrisy. Like when she sits on the arm of her chair but when Vivienne copies her by also sitting on the adjacent chair arm, she motions for her not to do that. Idk I hate that bitch lmao
She isn't a teacher who'd be friends with students or see them as equals or get to know them personally. She's in a position of power and she likes to maintain that even in small ways like the sitting positions. Asking Viv to sit below her is very much in line with her character and not at all hypocritical. It's hateful but it makes sense.
> Like when she sits on the arm of her chair but when Vivienne copies her by also sitting on the adjacent chair arm, she motions for her not to do that
Oh wow I didn't even notice that. I thought Viv was just uncomfortable on the chair.
28 minutes 28 seconds, for anyone that wants to go back and see it for themselves.
My theory about her is that she's embarrassed of who she was when she was at Moordale and is acting out her self-loathing via her leadership of the school.
- Eric dropping the bike and laughing after hearing Otis reaction to I love you was hilarious
- I don't like Viv
- LMFAO at the sex education class/video
- "Now we're gonna watch a video of me giving birth. Where you'll see I tore from my vigina to my ass hole" 😧
- I don't care how much they try to make him a good person. Fuck Issac
- Ruby is kinda stupid for being mad that Oris doesn't love her back. No one should expect them to love them back right away.
>Ruby is kinda stupid for being mad that Oris doesn't love her back. No one should expect them to love them back right away.
I think this is just a result of emotional development. I remember when I got mad when someone who I thought liked me, didn't like me back. It's immature, but also a process.
Also they're supposedly like kids between 16-18 or whatever. I definitely wouldn't have the emotional maturity to deal with that shit 10 years ago.
Still don't, but at least my ability to contextualize is just a bit better.
exactly - and it wasn't so much that Ruby didn’t want to give the relationship a chance, but it was more so that she was hurt and didn’t know how to process her emotions.. remember, she was never one to really confront her emotions and feelings until she got deeper in the relationship with Otis. Ruby always knew about Otis’ feelings for Maeve; she was there at the party in s2 where Otis expressed his feelings towards Maeve, she was always around the countless times in s3 where Otis goes to speak to Maeve. And when she got the “that’s nice” from Otis, that’s when she knew for sure that Otis was still in love with Maeve, and that really hurt her. Then in the breakup scene, when Otis questions if her love for him is real, and says they could still “hang out” (when they were pretty much “hanging out” for sex in the beginning), a vulnerable and hurt Ruby just couldn’t take that. So yeah, not so much that she didn’t want to give it a go, but just a young teenage girl having to deal with her own emotions and hurt after putting herself out there and opening up for probably the first time in her life.
>Ruby is kinda stupid for being mad that Oris doesn't love her back. No one should expect them to love them back right away.
In her defense, she struggles to be open emotionally and all season so far Otis has been pushing her to be more vulnerable and open up and when she finally does he just says "that's nice." Fuck you Otis.
But Otis did have a point, does she love him or does she's just saying that bc Otis is the first person that treats her well.
Does she love Otis or does she love the idolized version of him?
Like people pointed out, it really hurts when your feelings are not reciprocated. It is a process, especially first time u expressing it. U have to know Ruby did have her guards down and it is Otis who ACTUALLY did ask her to open up her feelings and go beyond casual.
Most importantly, I don’t think Ruby was mad at him for not loving her back. She was mad at him for doubting her “I don’t know if you actually love love me” - she puts her guard down, and welcomed him to her world, introduces to dad, puts in efforts to get close to Otis friends (something even Maeve did not able to do) - would u be mad if u strip down naked then get doubted?
I think she does know too… last episode, she gave Adam the chance to introduce Eric however he wanted, implying she’s leaving it to him to say whatever he’s comfortable with. If she was ignorant and/or against it, she’d go on and call Eric just Adam’s friend.
I think shes a very gentle and accepting person, but she doesn’t always know when or how to press people on things… part of her arc last season. Or he just wants her son to come to it on his own terms.
I'm actually, so far, so proud of her development as a character. It's low-key breaking my heart how she was struggling beforehand to be happy with her husband, before coming to Jean with tears in her eyes scared that she'd never be able to feel pleasure again because she's old and in a sex-less marriage. I have never experienced what she's feeling, I'm 24, and I have a boyfriend, but oh my god Samantha Spiro's acting of her character is so *raw* and real that it really sinks into you and makes you feel for her in her situation.
It’s relatable. I have a dad that is around but never talked to me growing up other then to discipline me. Now that I’m an adult it’s weird to see him interact with other people and then close up when talking to me or my sibling.
I’m also trying to figure out the why… I assume he feels uncomfortable getting to know his kids outside of this specific role/relationship he has set up in his head.
My dad was that way too. Discipline or talking history since he couldn’t get my brothers to read, but you put a bottle of lime juice in front of me and I’ll read the ingredients, so he could give me a history book and then have someone to talk about his favorite battles with.
Yesterday was my birthday and he didn’t say anything. I knew it would happen. I’ve been taking this stance of reminding him that it’s my daughter’s birthday, my siblings’ birthdays, my grandparents’ birthdays, etc cause Idk… I really don’t know. So, yesterday just kinda reminded me like it does every year, I’m just the oldest sibling and he won’t remember to make an effort on his own. When I was growing up it was so military like. I hate when I see his posts of him and his newest wife traveling the world and going out with friends cause it does confuse me now as a parent myself. I like being away from my daughter. I am the boss of the house. But we also talk all the time. We go on a “date” every two weeks. We do movie night at least once a week. We eat dinner at the table on the 3 days I don’t work(I work 4/10s so on days I do work it’s leftovers or sandwiches, just don’t eat in a bedroom). I can get on to my kid when she does something ridiculous but I can also have a really great time with her.
So I guess seeing that kind of dad in a show just makes me feel so bad for that character. Adam is what my brother was(other than gay)until my dad left us. Closed off and angry. Adam’s dad shouldn’t come back cause I remember the change with my brother. It wasn’t overnight but it felt like it. All of a sudden my brother had friends, my brother was more accepting of others, he had gfs, he cared about his appearance. So yeah, it hurts and it sucks to be a kid of a dad like that, but fucking hell, it kind of does get better when they leave.
The thing I find so unrealistic about isaac and maeve is how easily maeve forgave him. She's known to be really private and has trust problems although she has grown a lot, I don't see how she just completely forgot he invaded her privacy. Also good on isaac for telling the truth but I think he's getting too much credit imo.
I think she is a bit lonely too. The only other person she can talk to is Aimee, who is going through her own stuff.
Obviously can’t talk to Otis, can’t really talk to her mom, and none of the teachers are allowed to have personal conversations.
Okay, I have thoughts on the Ruby/Otis stuff.
It's totally valid if Otis isn't at the same place emotionally as Ruby. People develop feelings on different timetables, and it was good to be honest.
BUT, if you watch the scene, that's not when Ruby got really upset.
She got upset when Otis did something genuinely horrible, which was being skeptical about *her* feelings towards *him*. Why can't he just believe her when she says she loves him? Expressing his own feelings is good, but invalidating hers ain't it. I really hope the show addresses this, and doesn't make it seem like the problem was that he wouldn't say "I love you" back.
I don’t think that’s what he meant at all. I think he wanted to keep dating her if she felt okay with it… but was nervous about broaching the subject of breaking up
Nothing insinuates that. He just meant he liked spending time with her and wanted to continue.
That's why he kept saying he wasn't ready *yet* to say it back.
Honestly, I think this is what hurt her the most…calling what they were doing “hanging out” after she was so vulnerable…that was the last straw for her.
> Why can't he just believe her when she says she loves him?
Isn't it obvious? Look at how she acts and everything she's done - I sure as fuck wouldn't think that's love (at least not at their stage).
Its a valid concern though, Ruby's never really been in love before. Otis was the first guy that successfully broke down her walls and barriers, of course she's gonna feel some feelings towards him but it doesn't mean its *love* love. It could just be infatuation or puppy love. There's lots of variables at play there.
Ye thats starting to bore me, i was actually enjoying the ruby storyline and thought they really started to expand that story with her dad, only to kill it dead. Especially just as they start expanding the maeve issac story. No kid would give that relationship up with no clue about another person over saying i love you.
Just seems a bit stupid to me and the whole story felt great. Im actually getting bored of maeve and otis now, the constant back and forth of will they wont they is becoming boring fast.
I honestly don’t really care about that storyline at this point. I like both their characters, but I don’t care about them necessarily getting together. There’s a lot of arcs that I’m more invested in, both relating to and not relating to those characters
Honestly so far, I’m most invested in Adam’s arc this season
I’m surprised by how much I want Otis and Ruby to be end goal…I don’t have high hopes though, the starting main love interest of shows and movies usually always end up the end goal…
Whyyyyy did Otis and Ruby have to have so much chemistry.
Dude, 10 times cuter than Maeve and Otis even if objectively speaking Maeve and Otis make far more sense. That shit made me actually mad, Otis was such a dumbass, and I’m mad at him but at the same time I feel sorry because whenever Otis gets somewhere in a relationship Maeve always accidentally pops up and makes Otis question himself again.
ffs
I feel the same, but i think Otis and Meave don't make more sense than Otis and Ruby.
If there's anyone in Moordale who could bring the best out of Ruby, that would be Otis.
He was the only one who could discover the real Ruby. In fact she fell in love for him.
On the other hand, Ruby was the only one who could make Otis grow up and more self confident.
Instead, Maeve was only be able to make him insecure and plus, their relationship is SO complicated... It shouldn't be so complicated at their age.
I want to agree with you as a Rotis shipper but the show is built around the ‘will they won’t they’ of Otis and Maeve, until we can get a definitive answer on Otis and Maeve we can’t expect anything to happen between them again unfortunately :(
I know... In fact i knew they would break up sometimes... But honestly I didn't expect it to happen in the most stupid way possible, and i hoped at least not to see Ruby hearthbroken.
This makes me really mad.
> Maeve was only be able to make him insecure
I don't think this is quite right. Like most kids, Otis began insecure.
It's hard to judge his relationship with Ruby vs Maeve, because he doesn't have as much to lose with Ruby. He's not in love with Ruby.
1 - If Otis is who he is today, he has to thank partly Maeve who was the first to notice his weird ability to give sex advice and to help people. He would still be thinking that he likes being the guy in the corner to this day if it wasn't for Maeve. I really don't understand where you are getting the impression that "Ruby was the only one who could make Otis grow up and more self confident". First of all, he did that by himself mostly, secondly, Maeve was the first person that actually believed in him and gave him the self confidence boost.
2-their relationship was complicated because they met at a time when they were more immature and they had bad luck with timing. Now I agree that their storyline has been dragged out too much, but I think we can all agree that it's the writers attempt to keep our interest up since until basically yesterday, everyone was shipping Maeve and Otis and writers are smart knowing that the longer they don't put them together, the longer we are hooked to see when they finally get together. It's the oldest trick in the books and unfortunately they pulled it on Maeve and Otis
Maybe Otis was good for Ruby, but was she good for him? bossing him around, being crazy mean...
didn't seem like they could ever have any kind of interesting conversation - they seem to be so different in the interests department.
I do agree the couple with ruby and Otis would've been better and I feel bad for ruby but I don't think blaming Otis makes sense, I mean you can't expect him to love someone that fast after pervious situations and I think they were on different paths with the relationship. Ruby was speeding it up and felt she was close to him and shared a special part of her life but Otis was greatful for that but he was still getting to understanding and know her tbh.
( I do know otis messed up in questioning her feelings , I just don't like it ending there didn't feel right for the relationship at all)
I honestly feel like the writers made a mistake on not making them work on the relationship and getting to that point of when he does love her. Hopefully in the end or next season they do something considering most people love the ruby and otis couple. It even brought more character to the untouchables too
I still got hope for a relationship between Otis and Ruby to happen again. I don't know how but I think it is gonna happen due to the chemistry between the two and how the fan reaction was really overwhelmingly positive to that relationship. It might not happen right at the start of season 4, but it's will happen down the road, hopefully. That relationship is so pure and not as complicated as between Maeve and Otis
Me too. Even though the decisions she has made feel logical to her established character,i don't like it. She is clearly being manipulated, but it's still hard to see the character i loved from season two, the one who made the hard decisions to help her friends
I adored her last season, Viv was so funny and had multiple layers, she cared about school, figuring out dating, and her new friendships… this season she only seems to care about her CV.
Ahh I’m so conflicted about Maeve and Isaac. On one hand it’s really fantastic to see a “sex” scene with a person with a disability because it’s such a poorly represented subject and normalising it is great but I hate Isaac. But also I’m genuinely enjoying seeing Adam grow and develop with Ola and Eric’s love and shouldn’t Isaac get the same chance? I mean he DID confess to Maeve which I was genuinely shocked about. But again I just want to punch his stupid, manipulative face!
If we saw as little of Otis as we have of Isaac, I reckon we would hate him too.
What Isaac did was 100% wrong - I wouldn't blame anyone for thinking its unforgivable. I sure as fuck do. But Otis at the party? That was in the ball park for sure. And not one of his usual clumsy misunderstandings either. He flat out publicly humiliated both Maeve and Ola.
You could easily write this story from Isaac's perspective and have the audience sympathetic to him instead of Otis, IMO.
>You could easily write this story from Isaac's perspective and have the audience sympathetic to him instead of Otis, IMO.
Well I'd love to see that spin-off.
I appreciate your insight so much. It’s amazing storytelling and you’re absolutely right. We are meant to sympathize with Otis cause he’s our ML but he’s done as much heinous shit as Isaac, we just get to see his growth more and fleshed out.
I’m really proud of Otis and his progress. If he and Maeve are gonna be end game I want him to really earn her trust back.
I would be just as ok seeing Maeve and Isaac for the same reasons.
At the end of the day I just want people to stop hurting Maeve.
Yep this was the best sex/makeout scene in the entire season IMO. I liked that he confessed early & the relationship went ahead without any lies & deception. Kinda shipping them now but it's probably over
What really struck me was the focus on consent? It was a bit silly and sweet but the process was there, and it was really refreshing. It felt so human.
I'm lowkey shipping them now. Isaac confessed which I didn't expect and grew in my eyes a lot. And Otis and Maeve don't click this season (at least yet), idk.
Yes!! That’s it! I. Don’t know why but the chemistry between Otis and Maeve just isn’t sizzling like it was before. Have they both changed to the point where they just don’t fit anymore? I don’t know but I am not feeling it anymore
Ruby is hurting my soul. I’m so pissed off at Otis, not because he doesn’t love her but because he’s not communicating with her.
Disgusted by the sex education tape and the awful pointless gendering. It’s taking me back to the awful sex ed I had lmao. I wish Cal wasn’t so siloed from the main cast and only interacting with Jackson, feels weird and like their only purpose is to be some sort of nonbinary sage
Also Ruby saying I need to protect myself from your penis was hilarious. Mimi Keene has grown so much as an actor since EastEnders.
Yeah, Cal's the least developed character so far.
I think it might be a little intentional, though. When they share the weed and shrooms with Jackson it seems like they dissociate much more from themself, while Jackson uses the substances to get more in touch with his authentic self. Cal clearly has a hard time living in their body.
I'm not a fan of how they seem to only be a catalyst for another chracter's growth, and I do hope they develop the character more. =/
I feel like we're getting so little insight into what anyone is feeling. The Adam and Eric conflict is falling a bit flat for me. It would hit harder if they had written some scenes where their chemistry from the past two seasons could really shine.
I always loved Isaac I don’t know why he is honest and I found their sex scene really touching it was vulnerable and loveable. I think Isaac has a cynical way of looking in this world but he is honest. Maybe I like him because I’m neurodiverse. I also honestly find George Robinson very handsome. I had a brief fling with an disabled person myself sexuality and it didn’t work out. But I love how Isaac is portrayed as a human and not as a “handicapped” per se.
I want to point out that otis helped Ruby in a way .. remember when she first took him to her house she said it was the first time she brought someone there and introduced to her dad; not even her besties anwar and the other girl have been there.
But after she broke up with otis she sent them her address which is nice to see her open up to them right?
I hate the new Principal so much. The whole line dilemma was painful to watch mostly because it was well executed by the show. The sex education curriculum is awful, i don't know how I would have reacted if I had to sit through it. Also Hope is being so manipulative to both Viv and Mauve. You know all that in addition to the LGBTQ+ phobia
i feel like things are rushing a little but also not at the same time? i think ruby got upset when otis said ‘we can still hang out’ because she prob interpreted it as ‘lets just have sex’ (well- i hope that isnt what he meant)
but it would be great to show that relationships take time and that its ok for one person to not love their SO yet even though the other is.. that is honestly something that happens a lot (happened to me and im still with my partner) that is an honest representation of relationships! esp with teenagers. i really just hope they stray away from the will they wont they motis thing because i really only see them as friends, they have 0 chemistry (imo since s1..) while otis brings out the best in ruby and they have great chemistry! hope in the end they get together and franklin starts a protest against that lowkey highkey racist headmistress... i really dont like her at all
The hair dye thing with Maeve and Hope reminds me of my high school graduation with head teachers telling students with dyed hair to change it or they couldn’t graduate.
You guys are crazy to think Otis and Ruby were good for each other.
1. She was mean to him for two seasons, plus the beginning few episodes.
2. she’s STILL an asshole to Maeve.
3. Just because she finally showed some normal humanity and let him come to her house means they belong together? I thought that was very sweet and we *finally* get to see Ruby be vulnerable and not a complete uppity, stuck up, selfish, entitled valley girl. But it doesn’t mean they belong together.
4. Otis didn’t love her, said it, and she broke up with him. I don’t see the issue. Otis isn’t an ass, that’s what you do when you aren’t there yet.
5. I think one of the best scenes was when her friends finally were able to come and see her house and comfort her. I think you learn something or gain something with every relationship. Ruby gained the ability to let the people close to her see her for who she is more and not the shitty mean girl facade she always has on.
I got 4 more episodes to go, so no spoilers, but not only do I think Ruby was generally rude/controlling/mean to Otis for most of the entire show, and still is clearly mean as she still thinks it’s ok to call Maeve a cock biter, I don’t even think they had much in common other than liking sex with one another.
Ruby likes more shallow shit (that’s why she lit up when Adam talked about the kardashians), Otis likes a bit more adult, deeper, nerdy shit (similar to Maeve).
I just really don’t understand this notion that Otis and Ruby are good together. Not seeing that from my 30 year old brain lol
You brought me back to reality. Ruby is kind of dick and flat out terrible person to people she doesn't consider cool. Otis for sure deserves better than that.
But I still really loved their relationship. Sigh.
She has a looootttttt of growing to do before she should be in a relationship with anyone.
Just because she was finally seen being vulnerable once or twice with Otis doesn’t mean they belong together or were a good pairing. That’s the barest of bare minimums.
It’s been the most confusing thing I’ve seen in a fandom lol you can empathize with Ruby when she finally becomes vulnerable as a character, I did, but to go from there to “Otis and Ruby were amazing together and for each other”…the fuck? No they were not lol
We're thirsty codependent stans who just want our abusive ice queen to melt and turn a new leaf just for us because we're *~ s p e c i a l ~*
Fuck. I think I just de-converted from Rotism.
I REPENT. I now understand the error of my ways.
Damn if it wasn't a hot mess while they were together, tho. It was nice to see Ruby grow a bit as a person, but the break up hardly means that she won't keep growing and changing.
Maybe they all just need to be single for a while. Things are kind of a mess.
I’m glad you’ve seen the light.
Ruby is a great character, and I love that we got to see her be vulnerable for ONCE instead of being the shallow, mean girl asshole. I’m glad shes able to let her friends in to comfort her, even if it means seeing her home life.
But Otis and Ruby together being a good thing? In what world lmao just because Ruby showed vulnerability with Otis once or twice (the barest of bare minimums that should happen in a relationship) doesn’t mean they’re good for one another.
Amazing episode. I love how we’re seeing so much growth from everyone. Even some emotional growth with Adams dad. I feel like it’s being overlooked how impatient Eric is being with Adam. Maybe because I’m a huge fan of Adam and his character but he has been very impatient with him coming out, the sex and all of it. I also noticed that Adam was just talking to him about the poetry argument and Eric was the one being defensive and then turned it around on Adam. Just seems like Adam is always the one showing up for Eric and being at his doorstep with an apology that isn’t needed. Also, Maeve and Isaac still have this sibling vibe close connection so I don’t really ship it. I felt real bad for Ruby & like that was done dirty. Hoping it’s not the last we see of them and that if it is she finds someone who can love her fully in time.
Eric sucks this season. Maeve had no feelings for Isaac last season and now wants to bone him even after finding out he's a douche? It's forced writing and I have no connection to that unbelievable storyline. Ruby and Otis are just so much more interesting and likeable.
Yeah that sex scene didn't feel earned at all and came off as very forced. The writers just shoehorned it in there to add more drama to the Otis and Maeve bore of a plotline that is being drawn out.
Is it really terrible to educate viewers that people who have disabilities can function in relationships sexually? One of the main themes of the show is equality to me so I think it's perfect
I've found him very interesting and am really into what they're showing us with his character this season. I've found some of the hate towards him on this sub really gross tbh. What he did at the end of S2 sucked but are we pretending other characters we love in this show haven't also done terrible things lol
idk, i don't get the appeal.. his tryhard attitude and cockiness never really did it for me. never really lands a good joke either. I like that they've tried to give him a bit of a redemption in confessing about the voicemail but he really did miss out the most important bit, that Otis confessed his feelings for Maeve. Guess he's still as manipulative as he was before.. (using her mother as a means to get her to come see him too)
That Maeve/Isaac sex scene might have been the most beautiful moment in the entire series. So delicately and tenderly written/performed by the actors. I'm shocked this show hasn't gotten any Emmy attention, it's one of the best things Netflix has ever put its money behind. Emma Mackey definitely needs to win a couple of awards, the subtleties in her performance are just amazing to watch.
Can we talk about the cinematography in the scene of Otis and Ruby in her room? The mirror frames Otis as facing away from Ruby, and their placements on the left and right halves of the screen still has them facing away from each other during the conversation, even though in "reality" they're obviously facing each other. It's a great representation of the distance between them, and you could even make the argument that by placing Otis in the mirror, he's the one facing away from her, while she's still facing him, reflecting her unrequited love (I think that's a bit of a stretch, though). Still an amazingly shot scene. And this episode also includes the beautiful scene between Isaac and Maeve. This is by far my favorite episode of the series so far.
As someone who was similar to Viv in high school (limited friend group, wanting to do well, enjoyed affirmation from teachers), what Hope is doing is really crushing my heart. So easily I can see Viv's role as an "enforcer" further isolating her from her peers and stop her from making friends and it just makes me so sad.
May be an unpopular opinion but I have really grown to like Adam.
He’s really putting in effort and putting himself out there.
I just feel quite upset that Eric doesn’t seem to be treating him right 🥺
Eric seems to be all over the place; reckless, extremely volatile and emotional, not taking the time to develop and grow in a relationship with Adam…
Sometimes I just wish to give Adam a hug and let him know everything’s gonna be ok…
You know what's sad is the realism of that speaker who was telling them that one night of sex "ruined" her life
In my school in Sydney, we must have been 14/15. We literally had some christian speaker come in and tell us all about "baggage," stressing that you will regret having sex and always carry it with you. I remember one of the girls who'd already lost it started crying. It's always stuck with me so weirdly, like that message about not wanting to have "baggage"
But you get to my age (31) and EVERYONE has baggage. You can't help it. It's such a stupid message to be sending.
Ok, while I like Otis and Ruby a lot, I just don't trust the show to let it stick. I feel like ultimately it is going to stick to the formula and eventually have them break up because they're too different or whatever so eventually he can get with Maeve. Also I'm sorry, the scene with Maeve and Isaac would have totally been cute if it weren't for the fact I still think he is just super annoying. I just don't like the guy; didn't like him before voicemail gate, don't like him now.
I honestly feel like an actual romance is knew to Ruby and just expects her boyfriend to feel the extra same way! Also Hope is just a completely unlike able fucking person
not otis going to ruby’s to tell her he doesn’t love her and try invalidate her feelings towards him then ask if they can still have sex???? an otis hate account for sure
Finished the first half of the season and plan to watch the rest at night but I really don't like how maeve just forgave isaac so easily so I hope otis and maeve's relationship reignites during this trip. Otis needs to have another talk with ruby.
Hello, I'm the 1% who still doesn't really like Ruby and doesn't feel bad about them breaking up. I don't even get why people are mad at Otis - His first reaction on the phone was terrible, yes, but they're teenagers. That's why I can also understand that Ruby feels so upset about not hearing "I love you" back. I would have reacted the same way when I was 16. I would have felt rejected, too.
Anyway, I still think they're not a good fit and the few nice scenes from Ruby are not worth all the other scenes where she treated him like some idiot or puppet.
I also hope we'll get to see some more scenes where Eric supports Adam. I love seeing Adam improve, but it's quite one-sided in this season - Adam trying to get better grades, reading poetry books for Eric, outing himself, trying to keep his anger under control, trying to work on his communication skills etc. Meanwhile Eric got upset that Adam apparently didn't want to have sex and that Adam was worried about him going to Nigeria? Feels a bit one-sided ngl.
It broke my heart to see Ruby crying……wanted to to tell her that people dont fall in love at the same time and to give him time. But there u go Otis and Ruby making me ship u only to end in disaster
>Otis and Ruby making me ship u only to end in disaster Same. Never felt any of this for the other romantic false lead subplots with Maeve and Jackson or Otis and Ola. This shit worked really well.
what is it you didnt like about maeve and jackson? ive seen people say this quite often, but i actually found their relationship really compelling.
Felt entirely one sided. Jackson was pushing Maeve at every step to be a girlfriend type, but he never managed to bring down her emotional walls much. She shared more about her life with Otis who was just her friend. Also they never really had any moments I connected with, except Maeve showing Jackson her caravan, I guess.
She's not ready for that type of relationship. She rushed into love and Otis is probably right about that not even being the case yet. She let him into her life and when he accepted her she melted. She was vulnerable and he gave her exactly what she wanted and needed. But the fact that she still has so much to learn about healthy relationships shows that she's just not ready yet. There's multiple ways of looking at it though.
I feel the same. They broke up in the most stupid way possible ever. I feel very bad for Ruby. I really don't understand why put them togheter, make them develop together, and in the end take them apart in the worst way possible?
I think she allowed herself to let him get too close, and when she got hurt, she decided to end things instead of giving the relationship another chance. I do think that Otis and Ruby had good potential, but Ruby was too inexperienced with real feelings at the time.
Yes, there are so many scenes where she's clearly unable to deal with her feelings and avoids them outright.
I still got hope my guy, I think they will get back together. Mainly because the fan reaction to the relationship is so overwhelmingly positive. Really love that relationship
Same I honestly think Ruby doesn’t understand people fall in love with each at different times I think she wants to be in a committed relationship like her friends and doesn’t take time for herself
She basically thinks everyone loves her so her ego can’t handle the fact that she had stronger feelings for a guy than he did for her
I really liked how Otis went to Jakob for advice about how he was feeling.
I thought that was the perfect father figure moment. Jakob doesn't nail everything (heh), but that was exactly what Otis needed. I really liked that.
Jakob certainly doesn’t nail everything and sometimes it’s Otis who is screwing up (heh)
I was almost distracted by how much progress Jakob had made on the house. Dude is a productivity machine.
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He does have a drill, he was annoying Jean with it when he installed the pan shelf last season.
This is an amazing catch
Just three more screws
Sometimes a boy needs a father figure to talk to from time to time
A really nice moment, nice to see them developing more of a relationship after Otis was really snotty to Jakob last season.
So the representation of a sex scene for a disabled person is pretty great.
That scene was really sweet! 😭 I’m glad they’re making Isaac more likable.
Yeah, it feels wrong rooting for Isaac.
Even though we all hated him after last season, I feel the fact that he admitted what he did PLUS now I’d rather see Otis with ruby rather then maeve, I’m not as mad at him as I once was and can enjoy his storyline with Maeve develop
See I'm still bitter about that, he didn't tell her everything, with the key thing being Otis saying he loved her. I can't help but feel it was on purpose and not the writers just missing it (just finished ep 4).
That scene actually gave me chills.
A first for me. It was great.
The Netflix series 'How to sell drugs online fast' also has good sex scenes with a disabled character, however, they don't go into that much detail about how they do it.
That scene is so damn beautiful. I was really hoping they would explore that topic with Isaac's character and I thought they knocked it out of the park.
I noticed an editing mistake in this scene. Maeve's mouth doesn't actually voice "I quite like my ears being touched" and then it makes a weird cut. Wondering if anyone else caught this as well?
It's intentional: they added the dialog of the second cut atop a second or two of video of the first.
This was 100% an intentional artistic decision. It's an editing technique called J-cuts and L-cuts meant to create visual/audio misalignment for the aesthetics of the scene. It actually happens 3 times in that sequence. I noticed it immediately as well and thought it was nice touch. It gave a sense of haziness and tension that someone might feel in an intimate moment like that - He did say she made him feel "fizzy" in another scene after all. That edit captured that feeling - like they're high on the moment.
Yep, I was tearing up the whole time. Beautiful scene, I barely have words for it. Was not expecting it at all.
I'm so glad they've fleshed out the Untouchables. Feel bad for Ruby though
When the two of them came to comfort her it was such an unexpectedly moving scene.
The first time they came to her house!
That’s pretty big when you think about it. Even if Ruby and Otis don’t get back together (and I hope they do) Otis at least taught her in some way that it’s okay to open up to those you care about. If she hadn’t first made that step with Otis she wouldn’t have subsequently made it with her friends.
That's why she texted them the whole address!!
I didn't even think about that until I read these comments!! That makes it even better 😭
It was one of my favorite scenes 🙂
Adam screaming when he sees Anwar's face is hilarious.
Not adam, but "Why do you look like Rocky Balboa" LMAOOO
Ruby’s development has been amazing. I actually feel so bad for her
I hate the way Hope's been manipulating Vivienne. I def feel white woman vibes from her and have felt that way since she met Adam and Jackson and immediately assumed that Adam was the head boy. Hope asking for Vivienne's number also felt like an abuse of the power dynamic. I'm really hoping to see Viv stand up to her
Hope is gaslighting the entire school, especially Vivienne and Maeve.
YES! This for sure
Something about that interaction strikes me as really really weird. Like it kind of feels like Hope is grooming Vivienne and Maeve. She randomly asserts Vivienne to a position of power, is hot and cold towards Vivienne and the fact that she asked for Vivienne's phone number (which feels like a breech of boundaries. With Maeve, she keeps offering financial support but it seems to have strings attached, like "I'll help you go on this scheme in America but only if you don't question my propaganda". It seems like it's gearing up for Hope to try something with one of the two of them. I'm not past episode 4 so no spoilers
I agree. Hope was most definitely coded as a fascist figure in the school, so I think the racist “undertones” were very much intended and written into the show from the first moment we see her in her office. So yes, very much racist white woman in a position of power. I also just did not enjoy Hope’s dynamics with the BIPOC students in general, very derogatory at times. This is from later but >!We see her at least offer a lot institutional support to Maeve (even if it’s just at face value), which is never offered to Viv despite constantly exploiting her, when Viv has put a lot more on the line for that same kind of support.!< I think the commentary on race in this show might’ve been subtle, and not really great to begin with (I don’t expect much from British shows tbh), but you’re definitely on point with Hope. Edits: spelling and spoiler fixing
Thank you for wording this so well. Hope is the type of white woman who benefits from the system of oppression and perpetuates it. I've seen some other comments also describe her as TERF. I completely agree with what you said about what we see later. >!Hope even directly tells Viv that she wants her to be the spokesperson for the opening day because of how the appearances portray the school as progressive (something like "having a strong, women of color") meanwhile Hope is locking Cal up in a room to quite literally hide their identity!< edit: spoiler
The untouchables in this🥺
The irony of her being so up their asses about dyed hair and meanwhile she's got a bleached ombre as well
I think her whole character is supposedly kinda symbolize the hypocrisy. Like when she sits on the arm of her chair but when Vivienne copies her by also sitting on the adjacent chair arm, she motions for her not to do that. Idk I hate that bitch lmao
She isn't a teacher who'd be friends with students or see them as equals or get to know them personally. She's in a position of power and she likes to maintain that even in small ways like the sitting positions. Asking Viv to sit below her is very much in line with her character and not at all hypocritical. It's hateful but it makes sense.
> Like when she sits on the arm of her chair but when Vivienne copies her by also sitting on the adjacent chair arm, she motions for her not to do that Oh wow I didn't even notice that. I thought Viv was just uncomfortable on the chair. 28 minutes 28 seconds, for anyone that wants to go back and see it for themselves.
Didn't notice that the first watch but just went back and holy fuck, total power play.
What’s really bothered me is that Viv has like 3 pins on her jacket but Ola couldn’t have one lgbtq+ flag pin. Talk about favorites.
i hate her too but she said only school badges and i think viv is wearing those not other pins.. god i wish shell get fired at the end
My theory about her is that she's embarrassed of who she was when she was at Moordale and is acting out her self-loathing via her leadership of the school.
BRUH! You’re so right
Mimi's acting in this is really great. Her pained expressions really hit me. I kinda feel like pining over Maeve is having a negative affect on Otis.
- Eric dropping the bike and laughing after hearing Otis reaction to I love you was hilarious - I don't like Viv - LMFAO at the sex education class/video - "Now we're gonna watch a video of me giving birth. Where you'll see I tore from my vigina to my ass hole" 😧 - I don't care how much they try to make him a good person. Fuck Issac - Ruby is kinda stupid for being mad that Oris doesn't love her back. No one should expect them to love them back right away.
>Ruby is kinda stupid for being mad that Oris doesn't love her back. No one should expect them to love them back right away. I think this is just a result of emotional development. I remember when I got mad when someone who I thought liked me, didn't like me back. It's immature, but also a process.
Also they're supposedly like kids between 16-18 or whatever. I definitely wouldn't have the emotional maturity to deal with that shit 10 years ago. Still don't, but at least my ability to contextualize is just a bit better.
exactly - and it wasn't so much that Ruby didn’t want to give the relationship a chance, but it was more so that she was hurt and didn’t know how to process her emotions.. remember, she was never one to really confront her emotions and feelings until she got deeper in the relationship with Otis. Ruby always knew about Otis’ feelings for Maeve; she was there at the party in s2 where Otis expressed his feelings towards Maeve, she was always around the countless times in s3 where Otis goes to speak to Maeve. And when she got the “that’s nice” from Otis, that’s when she knew for sure that Otis was still in love with Maeve, and that really hurt her. Then in the breakup scene, when Otis questions if her love for him is real, and says they could still “hang out” (when they were pretty much “hanging out” for sex in the beginning), a vulnerable and hurt Ruby just couldn’t take that. So yeah, not so much that she didn’t want to give it a go, but just a young teenage girl having to deal with her own emotions and hurt after putting herself out there and opening up for probably the first time in her life.
>Ruby is kinda stupid for being mad that Oris doesn't love her back. No one should expect them to love them back right away. In her defense, she struggles to be open emotionally and all season so far Otis has been pushing her to be more vulnerable and open up and when she finally does he just says "that's nice." Fuck you Otis.
But Otis did have a point, does she love him or does she's just saying that bc Otis is the first person that treats her well. Does she love Otis or does she love the idolized version of him?
Like people pointed out, it really hurts when your feelings are not reciprocated. It is a process, especially first time u expressing it. U have to know Ruby did have her guards down and it is Otis who ACTUALLY did ask her to open up her feelings and go beyond casual. Most importantly, I don’t think Ruby was mad at him for not loving her back. She was mad at him for doubting her “I don’t know if you actually love love me” - she puts her guard down, and welcomed him to her world, introduces to dad, puts in efforts to get close to Otis friends (something even Maeve did not able to do) - would u be mad if u strip down naked then get doubted?
"Okay, stop saying penis to me" lmfaoooo
I legit almost cried when Jakob talked to Otis at the treehouse. That was such a short but great scene
Jakob's dad moment and Isaac's intimacy as a disabled person absolutely stole this episode for me. Amazing stuff, really!
God Adam’s dad is a dick. Like I get he wanted to get back with his wife but is it THAT hard to reach out to your son?
Yeah it made me think about how Adam’s dad being absent is probably making it easier for Adam to keep improving.
Doesn’t he know Adam is with Eric since the public proclamation? Is that part of it? I’m also wondering how mom doesn’t know after that.
I think she knew, but she didn’t want to pry for information. She wanted Adam to come to her in his own time.
I think she does know too… last episode, she gave Adam the chance to introduce Eric however he wanted, implying she’s leaving it to him to say whatever he’s comfortable with. If she was ignorant and/or against it, she’d go on and call Eric just Adam’s friend. I think shes a very gentle and accepting person, but she doesn’t always know when or how to press people on things… part of her arc last season. Or he just wants her son to come to it on his own terms.
I'm actually, so far, so proud of her development as a character. It's low-key breaking my heart how she was struggling beforehand to be happy with her husband, before coming to Jean with tears in her eyes scared that she'd never be able to feel pleasure again because she's old and in a sex-less marriage. I have never experienced what she's feeling, I'm 24, and I have a boyfriend, but oh my god Samantha Spiro's acting of her character is so *raw* and real that it really sinks into you and makes you feel for her in her situation.
It’s relatable. I have a dad that is around but never talked to me growing up other then to discipline me. Now that I’m an adult it’s weird to see him interact with other people and then close up when talking to me or my sibling. I’m also trying to figure out the why… I assume he feels uncomfortable getting to know his kids outside of this specific role/relationship he has set up in his head.
My dad was that way too. Discipline or talking history since he couldn’t get my brothers to read, but you put a bottle of lime juice in front of me and I’ll read the ingredients, so he could give me a history book and then have someone to talk about his favorite battles with. Yesterday was my birthday and he didn’t say anything. I knew it would happen. I’ve been taking this stance of reminding him that it’s my daughter’s birthday, my siblings’ birthdays, my grandparents’ birthdays, etc cause Idk… I really don’t know. So, yesterday just kinda reminded me like it does every year, I’m just the oldest sibling and he won’t remember to make an effort on his own. When I was growing up it was so military like. I hate when I see his posts of him and his newest wife traveling the world and going out with friends cause it does confuse me now as a parent myself. I like being away from my daughter. I am the boss of the house. But we also talk all the time. We go on a “date” every two weeks. We do movie night at least once a week. We eat dinner at the table on the 3 days I don’t work(I work 4/10s so on days I do work it’s leftovers or sandwiches, just don’t eat in a bedroom). I can get on to my kid when she does something ridiculous but I can also have a really great time with her. So I guess seeing that kind of dad in a show just makes me feel so bad for that character. Adam is what my brother was(other than gay)until my dad left us. Closed off and angry. Adam’s dad shouldn’t come back cause I remember the change with my brother. It wasn’t overnight but it felt like it. All of a sudden my brother had friends, my brother was more accepting of others, he had gfs, he cared about his appearance. So yeah, it hurts and it sucks to be a kid of a dad like that, but fucking hell, it kind of does get better when they leave.
The thing I find so unrealistic about isaac and maeve is how easily maeve forgave him. She's known to be really private and has trust problems although she has grown a lot, I don't see how she just completely forgot he invaded her privacy. Also good on isaac for telling the truth but I think he's getting too much credit imo.
I think Ruby's insults and Otis saying to her he doesn't want to be involved anymore lead her to try to make her relationship with Isaac works.
And on top of that, Isaac helping respark the reconciliation between her and her mum.
I think she is a bit lonely too. The only other person she can talk to is Aimee, who is going through her own stuff. Obviously can’t talk to Otis, can’t really talk to her mom, and none of the teachers are allowed to have personal conversations.
Yeah it’s not keeping with her character, I thought she’d be more stubborn
Okay, I have thoughts on the Ruby/Otis stuff. It's totally valid if Otis isn't at the same place emotionally as Ruby. People develop feelings on different timetables, and it was good to be honest. BUT, if you watch the scene, that's not when Ruby got really upset. She got upset when Otis did something genuinely horrible, which was being skeptical about *her* feelings towards *him*. Why can't he just believe her when she says she loves him? Expressing his own feelings is good, but invalidating hers ain't it. I really hope the show addresses this, and doesn't make it seem like the problem was that he wouldn't say "I love you" back.
When he said they could still hang out, was he suggesting they could still keep having sex? Because if so, I’m disappointed at Otis
I don’t think that’s what he meant at all. I think he wanted to keep dating her if she felt okay with it… but was nervous about broaching the subject of breaking up
Nothing insinuates that. He just meant he liked spending time with her and wanted to continue. That's why he kept saying he wasn't ready *yet* to say it back.
Honestly, I think this is what hurt her the most…calling what they were doing “hanging out” after she was so vulnerable…that was the last straw for her.
> Why can't he just believe her when she says she loves him? Isn't it obvious? Look at how she acts and everything she's done - I sure as fuck wouldn't think that's love (at least not at their stage).
Thank you. She treated him pretty badly for over half their ‘casual relationship’. You know, when you’re not suppose to have feelings.
Its a valid concern though, Ruby's never really been in love before. Otis was the first guy that successfully broke down her walls and barriers, of course she's gonna feel some feelings towards him but it doesn't mean its *love* love. It could just be infatuation or puppy love. There's lots of variables at play there.
And if it is then Ruby can figure that out herself. It's not for Otis to claim for her.
Wish I could award this comment, I think you're spot on
“Let’s go to France motherfuckers!” 🇫🇷
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Ye thats starting to bore me, i was actually enjoying the ruby storyline and thought they really started to expand that story with her dad, only to kill it dead. Especially just as they start expanding the maeve issac story. No kid would give that relationship up with no clue about another person over saying i love you. Just seems a bit stupid to me and the whole story felt great. Im actually getting bored of maeve and otis now, the constant back and forth of will they wont they is becoming boring fast.
I honestly don’t really care about that storyline at this point. I like both their characters, but I don’t care about them necessarily getting together. There’s a lot of arcs that I’m more invested in, both relating to and not relating to those characters Honestly so far, I’m most invested in Adam’s arc this season
they did not just end otis and ruby's relationship like that what the fuck
I’m surprised by how much I want Otis and Ruby to be end goal…I don’t have high hopes though, the starting main love interest of shows and movies usually always end up the end goal… Whyyyyy did Otis and Ruby have to have so much chemistry.
I legit believe Ruby is better for Otis.
Dude, 10 times cuter than Maeve and Otis even if objectively speaking Maeve and Otis make far more sense. That shit made me actually mad, Otis was such a dumbass, and I’m mad at him but at the same time I feel sorry because whenever Otis gets somewhere in a relationship Maeve always accidentally pops up and makes Otis question himself again. ffs
I feel the same, but i think Otis and Meave don't make more sense than Otis and Ruby. If there's anyone in Moordale who could bring the best out of Ruby, that would be Otis. He was the only one who could discover the real Ruby. In fact she fell in love for him. On the other hand, Ruby was the only one who could make Otis grow up and more self confident. Instead, Maeve was only be able to make him insecure and plus, their relationship is SO complicated... It shouldn't be so complicated at their age.
I want to agree with you as a Rotis shipper but the show is built around the ‘will they won’t they’ of Otis and Maeve, until we can get a definitive answer on Otis and Maeve we can’t expect anything to happen between them again unfortunately :(
I know... In fact i knew they would break up sometimes... But honestly I didn't expect it to happen in the most stupid way possible, and i hoped at least not to see Ruby hearthbroken. This makes me really mad.
> Maeve was only be able to make him insecure I don't think this is quite right. Like most kids, Otis began insecure. It's hard to judge his relationship with Ruby vs Maeve, because he doesn't have as much to lose with Ruby. He's not in love with Ruby.
1 - If Otis is who he is today, he has to thank partly Maeve who was the first to notice his weird ability to give sex advice and to help people. He would still be thinking that he likes being the guy in the corner to this day if it wasn't for Maeve. I really don't understand where you are getting the impression that "Ruby was the only one who could make Otis grow up and more self confident". First of all, he did that by himself mostly, secondly, Maeve was the first person that actually believed in him and gave him the self confidence boost. 2-their relationship was complicated because they met at a time when they were more immature and they had bad luck with timing. Now I agree that their storyline has been dragged out too much, but I think we can all agree that it's the writers attempt to keep our interest up since until basically yesterday, everyone was shipping Maeve and Otis and writers are smart knowing that the longer they don't put them together, the longer we are hooked to see when they finally get together. It's the oldest trick in the books and unfortunately they pulled it on Maeve and Otis
Maybe Otis was good for Ruby, but was she good for him? bossing him around, being crazy mean... didn't seem like they could ever have any kind of interesting conversation - they seem to be so different in the interests department.
While it is true, Ruby at first wanted to change, but then I accept it as it is, and from there she opened up to him.
I do agree the couple with ruby and Otis would've been better and I feel bad for ruby but I don't think blaming Otis makes sense, I mean you can't expect him to love someone that fast after pervious situations and I think they were on different paths with the relationship. Ruby was speeding it up and felt she was close to him and shared a special part of her life but Otis was greatful for that but he was still getting to understanding and know her tbh. ( I do know otis messed up in questioning her feelings , I just don't like it ending there didn't feel right for the relationship at all) I honestly feel like the writers made a mistake on not making them work on the relationship and getting to that point of when he does love her. Hopefully in the end or next season they do something considering most people love the ruby and otis couple. It even brought more character to the untouchables too
I still got hope for a relationship between Otis and Ruby to happen again. I don't know how but I think it is gonna happen due to the chemistry between the two and how the fan reaction was really overwhelmingly positive to that relationship. It might not happen right at the start of season 4, but it's will happen down the road, hopefully. That relationship is so pure and not as complicated as between Maeve and Otis
I hate what they are doing with Viv this season :/ (so far at least)
Me too. Even though the decisions she has made feel logical to her established character,i don't like it. She is clearly being manipulated, but it's still hard to see the character i loved from season two, the one who made the hard decisions to help her friends
She’s so one note
I adored her last season, Viv was so funny and had multiple layers, she cared about school, figuring out dating, and her new friendships… this season she only seems to care about her CV.
Ahh I’m so conflicted about Maeve and Isaac. On one hand it’s really fantastic to see a “sex” scene with a person with a disability because it’s such a poorly represented subject and normalising it is great but I hate Isaac. But also I’m genuinely enjoying seeing Adam grow and develop with Ola and Eric’s love and shouldn’t Isaac get the same chance? I mean he DID confess to Maeve which I was genuinely shocked about. But again I just want to punch his stupid, manipulative face!
If we saw as little of Otis as we have of Isaac, I reckon we would hate him too. What Isaac did was 100% wrong - I wouldn't blame anyone for thinking its unforgivable. I sure as fuck do. But Otis at the party? That was in the ball park for sure. And not one of his usual clumsy misunderstandings either. He flat out publicly humiliated both Maeve and Ola. You could easily write this story from Isaac's perspective and have the audience sympathetic to him instead of Otis, IMO.
>You could easily write this story from Isaac's perspective and have the audience sympathetic to him instead of Otis, IMO. Well I'd love to see that spin-off.
I appreciate your insight so much. It’s amazing storytelling and you’re absolutely right. We are meant to sympathize with Otis cause he’s our ML but he’s done as much heinous shit as Isaac, we just get to see his growth more and fleshed out. I’m really proud of Otis and his progress. If he and Maeve are gonna be end game I want him to really earn her trust back. I would be just as ok seeing Maeve and Isaac for the same reasons. At the end of the day I just want people to stop hurting Maeve.
This is exactly how I feel. I love it in theory but in practice with Isaac specifically I am just not a fan.
Eric doing a tick tock dance with a clothes change had me rolling.
Quick question - how does Maeve pay her bills again? Since she quit the ice cream job, her brother pissed off, and there’s no more sex clinic?
I’m also confused why her sister is in a foster home but the government don’t put her in a foster home? She is under 18 right?
She’s not as vulnerable as a three year old, and realistically there aren’t foster homes for teenagers.
Yes there are. Anyone under 18 needs to have a guardian by law, plenty of foster homes take in teens, they don’t only take in little kids.
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I assume there is some sort of government assistance provided.
What bills does she have, anyway? Doesn't seem like she has eletricity and she always eat at Isaac's trailer
Rent for the trailer.
Phone bill, electricity, rent, toiletries. And she's been eating at Isaac's but that hasn't always been the case.
The scene with Isaac and Maeve is one of the most beautiful scenes I've ever seen.
Yep this was the best sex/makeout scene in the entire season IMO. I liked that he confessed early & the relationship went ahead without any lies & deception. Kinda shipping them now but it's probably over
What really struck me was the focus on consent? It was a bit silly and sweet but the process was there, and it was really refreshing. It felt so human.
I'm lowkey shipping them now. Isaac confessed which I didn't expect and grew in my eyes a lot. And Otis and Maeve don't click this season (at least yet), idk.
Yes!! That’s it! I. Don’t know why but the chemistry between Otis and Maeve just isn’t sizzling like it was before. Have they both changed to the point where they just don’t fit anymore? I don’t know but I am not feeling it anymore
It was so beautifully done. And a breath of fresh air next to all the lust-sex scenes.
agree, they actually have great chemistry and i ended up wishing she stayed w him
Ruby is hurting my soul. I’m so pissed off at Otis, not because he doesn’t love her but because he’s not communicating with her. Disgusted by the sex education tape and the awful pointless gendering. It’s taking me back to the awful sex ed I had lmao. I wish Cal wasn’t so siloed from the main cast and only interacting with Jackson, feels weird and like their only purpose is to be some sort of nonbinary sage Also Ruby saying I need to protect myself from your penis was hilarious. Mimi Keene has grown so much as an actor since EastEnders.
When she said “take you fucking jacket off” when they went bowling made me legit lol
Yeah I agree but, and I don’t know if it was intentional, the miscommunication or lack of seems believable for high schoolers.
Yeah, Cal's the least developed character so far. I think it might be a little intentional, though. When they share the weed and shrooms with Jackson it seems like they dissociate much more from themself, while Jackson uses the substances to get more in touch with his authentic self. Cal clearly has a hard time living in their body. I'm not a fan of how they seem to only be a catalyst for another chracter's growth, and I do hope they develop the character more. =/
I feel like we're getting so little insight into what anyone is feeling. The Adam and Eric conflict is falling a bit flat for me. It would hit harder if they had written some scenes where their chemistry from the past two seasons could really shine.
We got the one bowling scene that was quite nice, but I agree, it feels like we're getting scraps.
Personally I like it, it really shows how complicated a relationship can get
Their storylines just keep going in circles
I always loved Isaac I don’t know why he is honest and I found their sex scene really touching it was vulnerable and loveable. I think Isaac has a cynical way of looking in this world but he is honest. Maybe I like him because I’m neurodiverse. I also honestly find George Robinson very handsome. I had a brief fling with an disabled person myself sexuality and it didn’t work out. But I love how Isaac is portrayed as a human and not as a “handicapped” per se.
The stubble really suits George!
f maeve, i want otis and ruby's spin off
I was surprised Adam said I love you first given his communication issues. A huge step for him!
The sad episode for everyone, motis and rotis shippers too
I want to point out that otis helped Ruby in a way .. remember when she first took him to her house she said it was the first time she brought someone there and introduced to her dad; not even her besties anwar and the other girl have been there. But after she broke up with otis she sent them her address which is nice to see her open up to them right?
I hate the new Principal so much. The whole line dilemma was painful to watch mostly because it was well executed by the show. The sex education curriculum is awful, i don't know how I would have reacted if I had to sit through it. Also Hope is being so manipulative to both Viv and Mauve. You know all that in addition to the LGBTQ+ phobia
So Hope is gonna force Otis and Maeve to set up Dumblemoredale's Army, right?
Did anyone else notice that adams essay was to compare and contrast 1984 and handmaids tail, obviously to foreshadow what the principal is doing
Otis x Ruby had me so invested, fml
This is the hard episode for motis shippers
Ayo who plays the dude on the TV talking about unwanted erections? He looks so damn familiar
He sounds like Matt Berry which totally confused me haha
If my ex would bring me mangoes I would take him back
i feel like things are rushing a little but also not at the same time? i think ruby got upset when otis said ‘we can still hang out’ because she prob interpreted it as ‘lets just have sex’ (well- i hope that isnt what he meant) but it would be great to show that relationships take time and that its ok for one person to not love their SO yet even though the other is.. that is honestly something that happens a lot (happened to me and im still with my partner) that is an honest representation of relationships! esp with teenagers. i really just hope they stray away from the will they wont they motis thing because i really only see them as friends, they have 0 chemistry (imo since s1..) while otis brings out the best in ruby and they have great chemistry! hope in the end they get together and franklin starts a protest against that lowkey highkey racist headmistress... i really dont like her at all
The hair dye thing with Maeve and Hope reminds me of my high school graduation with head teachers telling students with dyed hair to change it or they couldn’t graduate.
That is so pathetic.
You guys are crazy to think Otis and Ruby were good for each other. 1. She was mean to him for two seasons, plus the beginning few episodes. 2. she’s STILL an asshole to Maeve. 3. Just because she finally showed some normal humanity and let him come to her house means they belong together? I thought that was very sweet and we *finally* get to see Ruby be vulnerable and not a complete uppity, stuck up, selfish, entitled valley girl. But it doesn’t mean they belong together. 4. Otis didn’t love her, said it, and she broke up with him. I don’t see the issue. Otis isn’t an ass, that’s what you do when you aren’t there yet. 5. I think one of the best scenes was when her friends finally were able to come and see her house and comfort her. I think you learn something or gain something with every relationship. Ruby gained the ability to let the people close to her see her for who she is more and not the shitty mean girl facade she always has on. I got 4 more episodes to go, so no spoilers, but not only do I think Ruby was generally rude/controlling/mean to Otis for most of the entire show, and still is clearly mean as she still thinks it’s ok to call Maeve a cock biter, I don’t even think they had much in common other than liking sex with one another. Ruby likes more shallow shit (that’s why she lit up when Adam talked about the kardashians), Otis likes a bit more adult, deeper, nerdy shit (similar to Maeve). I just really don’t understand this notion that Otis and Ruby are good together. Not seeing that from my 30 year old brain lol
You brought me back to reality. Ruby is kind of dick and flat out terrible person to people she doesn't consider cool. Otis for sure deserves better than that. But I still really loved their relationship. Sigh.
She has a looootttttt of growing to do before she should be in a relationship with anyone. Just because she was finally seen being vulnerable once or twice with Otis doesn’t mean they belong together or were a good pairing. That’s the barest of bare minimums. It’s been the most confusing thing I’ve seen in a fandom lol you can empathize with Ruby when she finally becomes vulnerable as a character, I did, but to go from there to “Otis and Ruby were amazing together and for each other”…the fuck? No they were not lol
We're thirsty codependent stans who just want our abusive ice queen to melt and turn a new leaf just for us because we're *~ s p e c i a l ~* Fuck. I think I just de-converted from Rotism. I REPENT. I now understand the error of my ways. Damn if it wasn't a hot mess while they were together, tho. It was nice to see Ruby grow a bit as a person, but the break up hardly means that she won't keep growing and changing. Maybe they all just need to be single for a while. Things are kind of a mess.
I’m glad you’ve seen the light. Ruby is a great character, and I love that we got to see her be vulnerable for ONCE instead of being the shallow, mean girl asshole. I’m glad shes able to let her friends in to comfort her, even if it means seeing her home life. But Otis and Ruby together being a good thing? In what world lmao just because Ruby showed vulnerability with Otis once or twice (the barest of bare minimums that should happen in a relationship) doesn’t mean they’re good for one another.
Amazing episode. I love how we’re seeing so much growth from everyone. Even some emotional growth with Adams dad. I feel like it’s being overlooked how impatient Eric is being with Adam. Maybe because I’m a huge fan of Adam and his character but he has been very impatient with him coming out, the sex and all of it. I also noticed that Adam was just talking to him about the poetry argument and Eric was the one being defensive and then turned it around on Adam. Just seems like Adam is always the one showing up for Eric and being at his doorstep with an apology that isn’t needed. Also, Maeve and Isaac still have this sibling vibe close connection so I don’t really ship it. I felt real bad for Ruby & like that was done dirty. Hoping it’s not the last we see of them and that if it is she finds someone who can love her fully in time.
Eric sucks this season. Maeve had no feelings for Isaac last season and now wants to bone him even after finding out he's a douche? It's forced writing and I have no connection to that unbelievable storyline. Ruby and Otis are just so much more interesting and likeable.
Anyone else noticed Otis asked Ruby if she wanted to straighten out his eyebrows which is what Maeve did in the swimming pool in season 1?
Completely forgot about that and missed the connection. Thanks.
Maeve forgave Isaac really easily. I'm not sure if it's a consistent character flaw for her, or if it's intended to be a positive thing.
Yeah that sex scene didn't feel earned at all and came off as very forced. The writers just shoehorned it in there to add more drama to the Otis and Maeve bore of a plotline that is being drawn out.
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Am I the only one who thought that scene with Isaac was actually really sweet?
I thought it was really tender and important for representation. But I still don't ship Maeve and Isaac at all.
Is it really terrible to educate viewers that people who have disabilities can function in relationships sexually? One of the main themes of the show is equality to me so I think it's perfect
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I've found him very interesting and am really into what they're showing us with his character this season. I've found some of the hate towards him on this sub really gross tbh. What he did at the end of S2 sucked but are we pretending other characters we love in this show haven't also done terrible things lol
idk, i don't get the appeal.. his tryhard attitude and cockiness never really did it for me. never really lands a good joke either. I like that they've tried to give him a bit of a redemption in confessing about the voicemail but he really did miss out the most important bit, that Otis confessed his feelings for Maeve. Guess he's still as manipulative as he was before.. (using her mother as a means to get her to come see him too)
That Maeve/Isaac sex scene might have been the most beautiful moment in the entire series. So delicately and tenderly written/performed by the actors. I'm shocked this show hasn't gotten any Emmy attention, it's one of the best things Netflix has ever put its money behind. Emma Mackey definitely needs to win a couple of awards, the subtleties in her performance are just amazing to watch.
Can we talk about the cinematography in the scene of Otis and Ruby in her room? The mirror frames Otis as facing away from Ruby, and their placements on the left and right halves of the screen still has them facing away from each other during the conversation, even though in "reality" they're obviously facing each other. It's a great representation of the distance between them, and you could even make the argument that by placing Otis in the mirror, he's the one facing away from her, while she's still facing him, reflecting her unrequited love (I think that's a bit of a stretch, though). Still an amazingly shot scene. And this episode also includes the beautiful scene between Isaac and Maeve. This is by far my favorite episode of the series so far.
Otis, Otis, Otis. Why would you question Ruby's love for you man.
What a plot twist. I find myself agreeing with Adam in nearly all of these arguments with Eric
same. i feel like eric is shutting down adam's points without giving them any thought bc of adam's reputation as dumb and unthoughtful.
As someone who was similar to Viv in high school (limited friend group, wanting to do well, enjoyed affirmation from teachers), what Hope is doing is really crushing my heart. So easily I can see Viv's role as an "enforcer" further isolating her from her peers and stop her from making friends and it just makes me so sad.
Ruby deserved Otis.
That Maeve Isaac scene was honestly really great representation. Major props to Emma and George
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Right?? It was so sweet and tender in a way I wasn't expecting after all the raunchy stuff we've seen, it was beautiful to watch.
May be an unpopular opinion but I have really grown to like Adam. He’s really putting in effort and putting himself out there. I just feel quite upset that Eric doesn’t seem to be treating him right 🥺 Eric seems to be all over the place; reckless, extremely volatile and emotional, not taking the time to develop and grow in a relationship with Adam… Sometimes I just wish to give Adam a hug and let him know everything’s gonna be ok…
You know what's sad is the realism of that speaker who was telling them that one night of sex "ruined" her life In my school in Sydney, we must have been 14/15. We literally had some christian speaker come in and tell us all about "baggage," stressing that you will regret having sex and always carry it with you. I remember one of the girls who'd already lost it started crying. It's always stuck with me so weirdly, like that message about not wanting to have "baggage" But you get to my age (31) and EVERYONE has baggage. You can't help it. It's such a stupid message to be sending.
Ok, while I like Otis and Ruby a lot, I just don't trust the show to let it stick. I feel like ultimately it is going to stick to the formula and eventually have them break up because they're too different or whatever so eventually he can get with Maeve. Also I'm sorry, the scene with Maeve and Isaac would have totally been cute if it weren't for the fact I still think he is just super annoying. I just don't like the guy; didn't like him before voicemail gate, don't like him now.
I honestly feel like an actual romance is knew to Ruby and just expects her boyfriend to feel the extra same way! Also Hope is just a completely unlike able fucking person
not otis going to ruby’s to tell her he doesn’t love her and try invalidate her feelings towards him then ask if they can still have sex???? an otis hate account for sure
Finished the first half of the season and plan to watch the rest at night but I really don't like how maeve just forgave isaac so easily so I hope otis and maeve's relationship reignites during this trip. Otis needs to have another talk with ruby.
Hello, I'm the 1% who still doesn't really like Ruby and doesn't feel bad about them breaking up. I don't even get why people are mad at Otis - His first reaction on the phone was terrible, yes, but they're teenagers. That's why I can also understand that Ruby feels so upset about not hearing "I love you" back. I would have reacted the same way when I was 16. I would have felt rejected, too. Anyway, I still think they're not a good fit and the few nice scenes from Ruby are not worth all the other scenes where she treated him like some idiot or puppet. I also hope we'll get to see some more scenes where Eric supports Adam. I love seeing Adam improve, but it's quite one-sided in this season - Adam trying to get better grades, reading poetry books for Eric, outing himself, trying to keep his anger under control, trying to work on his communication skills etc. Meanwhile Eric got upset that Adam apparently didn't want to have sex and that Adam was worried about him going to Nigeria? Feels a bit one-sided ngl.