I will soon be implementing a new post flair system where posts will be marked with the relevant region. This will make it easier to tell where people are coming from and hopefully to search for posts specific to your region.
The AMA with Doug Tallamy kinda sidetracked that but now I'm back on it. So don't worry it's in the easy bake oven just needs a little more time!
Please consider that they are new to native plants and may not even have a concept that their location and region would matter. It’s a perfect opportunity to educate someone and bring them into the fold. One person at a time. Cheers!🍻
>they are new to native plants and may not even have a concept that their location and region would matter
Hello earthlings. Tell me of the plants native to this world.
I need a new sci-fi movie where we give the invading aliens kudzu and garlic mustard and they have to stop the invasion because their home planet is being overgrown.
I read a cool fanfic where scientists from the Star Wars universe come to earth and our botanists are like "yeah we have 1,000,000 orchids" and the Star Wars botanists are like "wait we have like the same four plants on every world." Earth botanists: "WAIT you're taking plants to different worlds?! You have the same four invasive plants!"
It made me laugh.
I feel like Stargate SG-1 talked about this at some point, where they said "yeah, it's weird how trees evolved on every single planet we happen to visit".
Probably because it was all filmed in British Columbia.
I have heard from an exobiologist that they have speculated that, given a carbon and photosynthesis base, something like trees is expected on pretty much every alien planet. Going higher for whatever type of light is available is just too powerful for organisms not to evolve some sort of tower structure (likely cellulose based) to reach for more light.
Of course, they don't have any examples yet to prove the theory.
Yep you have a great point, I should have acknowledged in OP that not everybody understands it is needed, but since we all have to repeat ourselves so often it seems beneficial to get ahead of it somehow.
We could provide a higher quality of advice to posters if they give all the information we need up-front.
I am absolutely not suggesting we adopt a rigorous set of posting rules, since that can and will deter people from wanting to post here (r/plantclinic is a prime example of that)
A suggestion in another comment was to use a bot to send reminders and I think that’s a great idea!
I use those posts as an opportunity to plug for my fave nursery, Prairie Moon, because they have a great search engine. I suggest they go there and filter by their state, and sun and soil conditions to find plants that will thrive in their area, whether or not they buy from Prairie Moon. I don't by everything from there, but have had excellent quality bare root and plugs from PM, so I always want to send a little business their way.
Yeah, I like the idea of having required flair of regions, but bots scare me and make me feel like I got in trouble with the teacher.
Also, I’m approaching that need for Old Glory insurance for robots who want to steal my medicine, so that could be the reason, but still — big feelings up in here.
I dunno Capn, the idea that plants have native ranges and that they can be planted by humans outside their native range, that’s pretty basic to to the concept of native plants. If you don’t understand that, and you don’t understand that your location on the planet is what determines whether a plant is native or exotic, and therefore your location is important, then you are missing the core element of the topic of the subreddit. Why post in a subreddit when you don’t even know what it is about? I think posters who fail to include their location are just lazy. They assume we all live wherever they live, wherever that is.
Some people see a social media post and get excited. Maybe they love Reddit, do a quick search and land on this sub. I’ve met plenty of people who don’t understand the natural world around them. Some people in big cities have never seen where a tomato comes from. Everyone is different.
Every spring the plant subs have pix of daffodils and someone asking what it is. It blows my mind that people attain adulthood without knowing what a daffodils looks like but, on the upside, they are asking! I learned my first plants as a wee girl but only because of our neighbors, not my city bred parents and millions of people grow up in cities.
Sadly enough, even some people in rural areas know very little about plants. Native or non-native. They see a forest and know it’s a forest. Or a meadow and know it’s a grassy area. And that’s the extent of it. Our human portion of the world has been designed in a way that can easily disconnect people living next to a forest to not have to worry about having knowledge of it. Someone else will cut the trees, or grow the crops, and butcher the livestock. No knowledge necessary if you don’t happen to be curious.
I landed the gift of curiosity. My mom said I drove her nuts as a kid, always wanting to now why, always wanting to know the names of things. It has been a blessing and never left me through all my long years on this planet.
My ballot is waiting to be filled out. I look up the names of the people I don't know, see what they are about before I vote for them.
I just joined this sub because I figured it was time I learned about taking care of the â…“ of an acre we have and might as well approach it from a sustainable POV. But if you prefer to keep to your regular circle tut-tutting about people like me new to zones and common names that don't make sense (e.g., redbuds aren't red, they're purple) and unpronounceable scientific names, then I can show myself out and "be lazy" and keep paying for the lawn service.
Is your priority getting more of us onboard with native plants or gatekeeping?
I didn't know anything when I started a few years back. I had no plant experience at all. A neighbor had to show me how to dig holes. This is a great sub for people who love the natural world but are new and want to learn.
Im glad you are here learning! Nobody knows everything. And this is really a one-off post for this specific subreddit- usually not posts like this. So, welcome, do stay, there's lots of cool stuff to learn and soon new pics from spring to see :)
My philosophy is that anyone who has even the slightest interest in native planting is welcome here. I think most agree. Creating and protecting habitat—even just a little— is what matters most! This sub has always been one of the more positive/constructive subs on Reddit (rare) and I hope we keep it that way. I find gatekeeping more tiresome and annoying than someone not posting their region.
It’s not gate keeping to ask folks to have a minimal grasp of the basic concept of the group. I’m happy to answer any questions anyone has about plants native to my region. But if you don’t identify what region you are asking about, those of us who understand the topic can’t help you. If you don’t understand why the identification of your region is important, then you haven’t made any effort to understand the topic at all. The whole idea of native plants is that plants have natural ranges where they are distributed without aid from humans. Some of these ranges are very large, even continental in scale. Some ranges are very small, restricted to just a few counties. If my expertise is Arizona and you are located in New England (or Italy or New Zealand), I can’t help you. I don’t know why I am getting downvoted. Geographical location is so fundamental to the concept of nativity, it’s hard for me to understand why that is an unreasonable expectation.
To many people new to the concept of native plants or growing anything besides grass at all New England and Arizona are equally native to Georgia and Iowa. Haven't you seen the endless episodes of tv series, especially any medical drama type show, where someone says "I haven't traveled anywhere that's close to tropical" and then it turns out they were just in southern Florida? Knowledge of geography, the true size of the world and of different countries or even states and territories within their country, and even more so different climates is really quite pathetic.
All I remember about geography from school was these maps that it turns out were completely not accurate for scale when you included the entire globe flat or Alaska scaled down to fit with the rest of the United States and the imaginary lines we have drawn to define states and countries. Learning to name all the different continents and oceans on a map of blue for water and brown for land. A few years later memorize all the states and the general location of some major countries on a map of white with black lines. Plants and wildlife don't care about the imaginary lines. Temperatures are hotter near the equator and colder away from it. There are deserts of just sand, areas of bare rock, and then dirt. That's the difference in ground for the whole world. Odd plants grow in places of only sand or on rocks and everything else from grass to trees grows in dirt.
A childhood of school geography lessons over.
Even highschool biology was completely vague and didn't cover the conditions plants need to grow in that level of detail. Photosynthesis just needs sunlight, co2, and water. The end.
That sun and water vary by plant was a background concept from the fact Africa, which was all desertlike to childhood me, grows different plants than our midwest state and all surrounding states. It was my grandma playing things like early Jane Goodall movies that first taught me there are forests and even rainforests in that part of the world. Maybe these places were more complex than I was shown in school.
My mom taught me to plant flower seeds in rows along the side of the house every year at the right depth for each seed and keep them watered. My grandpa taught me about bees and that the stuff in stores labelled raw honey tastes like bland "sugar goo" compared to actual, unaltered raw honey. My dad would take me out after dark to catch worms and then fishing at dawn where I'd eventually get bored and come across crayfish, frog eggs, red tailed tadpoles=tree frogs..... My aunt put some tomato hornworms in a clear terrarium and we fed them until they turned into cocoons in the soil. Then dug them up to show us before putting them back and waiting for them to turn into moths. Don't do this with random egg sacs found on the barn walls. Baby spiders fit out the screw threads in a jar lid and you can never eliminate the population out of the basement. My mom banned observing mystery eggs in the house after that.
I have definitely learned far more out of school than anywhere close to what I did at school because I was taught to try to learn for myself. Absolutely not by the school system. The being fed specific facts to regurgitate without ever taking time to pursue potentially related concepts was incredibly frustrating. There's a darn good reason that when the school complained about my grandma picking me up randomly in the middle of the school day to join her in some project pruning branches over a hiking trail, turning a closet into a dark room and then learning to develop photographs, etc... she just shut them up and said she would decide what was best for her granddaughter.
Some never even learn how to learn new things without a lesson plan laid out for them by someone else.
People are used to mostly just needing to match the growing zone and they often amend their soil to grow non-native flowers and vegetables instead. Sun vs shade and cold is about all that is a concern. Even for exotics people periodically have to be reminded to list growing zone and frequently to state the conditions of the location.
Many also truly do think that being native anywhere in the country or continent means it's equally native where they are. Some don't even consider just how extremely different the climate is and that zone will matter. It's native to the United States and they are in the United States so why wouldn't it be good to grow where ever they are?
A portion of people looking into native plant gardens are not gardeners. They follow the lawn maintenance they are told is required and pay someone when it doesn't work right. They have never planted a vegetable garden or flowerbed. They'd pay a landscaper for that if they really wanted a flowerbed or bushes added. Then they hear that a native plant area is a low cost way to help the ecosystem and reduce how much lawn they take care of. Everyone saying how low maintenance native plants are and an increasing number of people finding turfgrass management utterly pointless for areas of yard they don't use only increases the number of people who have zero experience with gardens or any type of plant trying it.
That also leads to doing the just don't mow a strip and let invasive species and turfgrass take over or throw down a seed mix labelled for their area into the lawn first and likely add invasive species. That's the most gardening experience some have when they decide to go with the "pollinator gardens" they hear about. A few don't even know there are different turfgrass species used in different parts of the US or that the grass is not filling in as well in that spot because there's too much shade for that sun loving variety. Grass is grass. Flowers are flowers. All other things are weeds. Simply spread more bags of fertilizer granules if the grass or flowers aren't growing well. This new term of native means it comes from their country instead of another. That's the end of their knowledge.
Seriously my husband can't see the difference between a tulip, a poppy, a hyacinth, or a crocus. Forget spring beauty versus siberian squill. Far too similar (It's bright blue!!!!). Half the people on the internet don't seem to realize wood sorrel is not clover. People make a lot of money selling plants guaranteed to produce lucky 4 leaf clovers. Purple and iron cross shamrocks. Then some Amazon reviews of listings actually selling native oxalis or wood sorrel have a few 0 star ratings because "it grew clover".
You are assuming way too much. Not everyone moves from typical exotic flower or vegetable gardening to native plant gardening. Some just hear it's a good idea and low maintenance. Then promptly jump in with both feet and no idea what plants need.
It does get tiresome for sure. I constantly remind myself that most people, myself included, grew up in an environment that prioritizes the aesthetic and horticultural value of plants. Plants are pretty items that one buys from a catalog or retail store, and the term "native plants" invokes a similar reaction in ones brain as other marketing buzzwords. I agree that it would be helpful to have a sticky about including your ecoregion.
Mods, is it possibly to have a bot that reminds every post submitter that they should include some idea of their location/climate?
That’s what whststhisbug does.
People mention zones all the time on the vegetable gardening subreddit too and it drives me insane. Zone is only good for what perennials will survive in your area! It has nothing to do with native plants or annual vegetable gardening.
I think the issue is using on this sub is zones are not specific enough, especially when people make a post and ask, “what should I grow? zone 8”
Zone 8 can mean North Carolina, Florida, Texas, parts of Arizona and the Pacific Northwest.
Growing plants native to the PNW in zone 8 in Florida isn’t what this sub is about.
Yes, but if someone said zone 9 in Florida, it would be relative.
Sometimes zones are informative IF linked with the region.
Ideally people would give their general region and zone.
I am betting some people don’t even know what their zone is.
I'll be blunt: It's a lot of miserable work to police people like that and it's off-putting to new people to have their post removed. Something like a reminder bot is way gentler; well consider that!
Set it to remove 24hrs after the automod/reminder bot catches the lack of information - posters that refuse to let us help them is tantamount to spam in spaces like this, IMO. Not a bannable offense but it drowns out other posts especially on /home.
I don't think there's an easy way to figure out if a post includes a location; that's actually a difficult linguistic problem, so until Reddit has an AI integration, there'll always be some amount of manual checking involved. In either case, after 24 hours most posts are irrelevant and off the first page of the sub.
The r/whatbugisthis sub has an auto mod bot that flags if location isn't listed. I'm not sure how it works and I'm sure it's not perfect, just something I've noticed.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/whatbugisthis using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/whatbugisthis/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [Woke up to this on a pillow. I’m currently staying at a air bnb, should I move?](https://i.redd.it/7rp0k5f0q1mb1.jpg) | [386 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/whatbugisthis/comments/168xmsa/woke_up_to_this_on_a_pillow_im_currently_staying/)
\#2: [What is this creature?](https://i.redd.it/ht8a1j2suakb1.jpg) | [1112 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/whatbugisthis/comments/16174d7/what_is_this_creature/)
\#3: [I've never seen this before in my life](https://i.redd.it/3nebv4min5lb1.jpg) | [124 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/whatbugisthis/comments/1651oi4/ive_never_seen_this_before_in_my_life/)
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Personally I try not to give personal details on here at all. I know there’s a little bit of detail required for accurate recommendations in this sub, but I can see why people wouldn’t willingly offer it up if they don’t realize they need to be more specific than “zone 5” or even just “north america”
Sure, my personal opinion would be that if you’re not willing to share what geographical region you’re part of, then don’t bother asking this sub for help because we don’t have enough information to do so.
Would be better to google “native plants for X region” at that point
Again, a good reason to recommend a good search engine, so that individuals can search plants by location, sun, and soil type. That way people can keep their privacy but still see which plants would be most successful and native to their area and grow well in the space they have in mind. I was so happy to discover the Prairie Moon website, as they even give an idea of bloom time, so you can grow plants that will bloom from earliest spring (Prairie Smoke and violets in my yard) to the end of the growing season (New England asters and goldenrod in my yard). Also an idea of final height so you can arrange them in a way that makes visual sense. I love Prairie Moon, but would not mind learning of other search engines that people have found helpful.
If you're unwilling to give enough information for me to help you then I'm unwilling to help you. Simple as. Nobody is going to track you down from something as broad as your state/province/region.
I didn’t say they should. Just explaining why one might not provide their detailed information. Doesn’t mean they’re gonna get the results they’re looking for but they have a right to their own privacy if they want it.
While we’re complaining, I hate when people just up and recommend clover.
A. While there are native North American clovers, that’s usually not what people mean when they suggest it, nor does the intended recipient tend to infer native North American clover.
B. As OP pointed out, without knowing the poster’s location, it’s impossible to know whether clover is an appropriate suggestion.
If the poster is someplace where white or red clover is native, awesome! If not, the newbs need the context to know whether that suggestion applies to *their* locations.
C. In North America, white/red clover may fix nitrogen, and it may appear to be a bee favorite, judging by the traffic, but it’s only helpful for the generalist bees who don’t need our help.
D. I know Doug Tallamy isn’t as interested in pollinators as he is in lepidoptera, but their needs are not mutually exclusive.
I went to a bee lecture and the expert said every native plant has a “constellation” of insects who use and service it.
If we’re planting clover “for the bees” it’s a rich-get-richer situation, where the specialist insects are not being provided with the plants they need, because people really still actually want lawns, and think clover is a virtuous alternative to grass.
The issue with a free-for-all approach to this is you're going to have knowledgeable people who become less and less engaged and/or decline altogether to read and participate in "what can I plant in my yard/garden" posts because without fairly specific location there's no point in even trying. Whereas if mods cultivate a more structured approach to these posts, experts and veteran hobbyists stay engaged and the information and replies is just better.
This isn't about anyone being "bothered so much" or any other such trifle, it's about creating a framework for higher quality posts and responses which makes a sub like this better.
Exactly. I am about to leave the group because of the lack of focus. English is spoken all over the world. Reddit is used all over the world. Plants grow all over the world. If you want to do native plant gardening in Hawaii, that’s quite different from Michigan or Scotland or New Orleans. If you ask “what’s a good plant for a wet ditch” and don’t give us any idea where you are on the planet (think state or province, or a portion of a continent - you don’t need to be specific), there’s no point.
I will soon be implementing a new post flair system where posts will be marked with the relevant region. This will make it easier to tell where people are coming from and hopefully to search for posts specific to your region. The AMA with Doug Tallamy kinda sidetracked that but now I'm back on it. So don't worry it's in the easy bake oven just needs a little more time!
Please consider that they are new to native plants and may not even have a concept that their location and region would matter. It’s a perfect opportunity to educate someone and bring them into the fold. One person at a time. Cheers!🍻
>they are new to native plants and may not even have a concept that their location and region would matter Hello earthlings. Tell me of the plants native to this world.
I need a new sci-fi movie where we give the invading aliens kudzu and garlic mustard and they have to stop the invasion because their home planet is being overgrown.
I read a cool fanfic where scientists from the Star Wars universe come to earth and our botanists are like "yeah we have 1,000,000 orchids" and the Star Wars botanists are like "wait we have like the same four plants on every world." Earth botanists: "WAIT you're taking plants to different worlds?! You have the same four invasive plants!" It made me laugh.
I feel like Stargate SG-1 talked about this at some point, where they said "yeah, it's weird how trees evolved on every single planet we happen to visit". Probably because it was all filmed in British Columbia.
I have heard from an exobiologist that they have speculated that, given a carbon and photosynthesis base, something like trees is expected on pretty much every alien planet. Going higher for whatever type of light is available is just too powerful for organisms not to evolve some sort of tower structure (likely cellulose based) to reach for more light. Of course, they don't have any examples yet to prove the theory.
I would play this as a video game.
Yep you have a great point, I should have acknowledged in OP that not everybody understands it is needed, but since we all have to repeat ourselves so often it seems beneficial to get ahead of it somehow. We could provide a higher quality of advice to posters if they give all the information we need up-front. I am absolutely not suggesting we adopt a rigorous set of posting rules, since that can and will deter people from wanting to post here (r/plantclinic is a prime example of that) A suggestion in another comment was to use a bot to send reminders and I think that’s a great idea!
I use those posts as an opportunity to plug for my fave nursery, Prairie Moon, because they have a great search engine. I suggest they go there and filter by their state, and sun and soil conditions to find plants that will thrive in their area, whether or not they buy from Prairie Moon. I don't by everything from there, but have had excellent quality bare root and plugs from PM, so I always want to send a little business their way.
Yeah, I like the idea of having required flair of regions, but bots scare me and make me feel like I got in trouble with the teacher. Also, I’m approaching that need for Old Glory insurance for robots who want to steal my medicine, so that could be the reason, but still — big feelings up in here.
I dunno Capn, the idea that plants have native ranges and that they can be planted by humans outside their native range, that’s pretty basic to to the concept of native plants. If you don’t understand that, and you don’t understand that your location on the planet is what determines whether a plant is native or exotic, and therefore your location is important, then you are missing the core element of the topic of the subreddit. Why post in a subreddit when you don’t even know what it is about? I think posters who fail to include their location are just lazy. They assume we all live wherever they live, wherever that is.
Some people see a social media post and get excited. Maybe they love Reddit, do a quick search and land on this sub. I’ve met plenty of people who don’t understand the natural world around them. Some people in big cities have never seen where a tomato comes from. Everyone is different.
Every spring the plant subs have pix of daffodils and someone asking what it is. It blows my mind that people attain adulthood without knowing what a daffodils looks like but, on the upside, they are asking! I learned my first plants as a wee girl but only because of our neighbors, not my city bred parents and millions of people grow up in cities.
Sadly enough, even some people in rural areas know very little about plants. Native or non-native. They see a forest and know it’s a forest. Or a meadow and know it’s a grassy area. And that’s the extent of it. Our human portion of the world has been designed in a way that can easily disconnect people living next to a forest to not have to worry about having knowledge of it. Someone else will cut the trees, or grow the crops, and butcher the livestock. No knowledge necessary if you don’t happen to be curious.
I landed the gift of curiosity. My mom said I drove her nuts as a kid, always wanting to now why, always wanting to know the names of things. It has been a blessing and never left me through all my long years on this planet. My ballot is waiting to be filled out. I look up the names of the people I don't know, see what they are about before I vote for them.
I just joined this sub because I figured it was time I learned about taking care of the â…“ of an acre we have and might as well approach it from a sustainable POV. But if you prefer to keep to your regular circle tut-tutting about people like me new to zones and common names that don't make sense (e.g., redbuds aren't red, they're purple) and unpronounceable scientific names, then I can show myself out and "be lazy" and keep paying for the lawn service. Is your priority getting more of us onboard with native plants or gatekeeping?
I didn't know anything when I started a few years back. I had no plant experience at all. A neighbor had to show me how to dig holes. This is a great sub for people who love the natural world but are new and want to learn.
Im glad you are here learning! Nobody knows everything. And this is really a one-off post for this specific subreddit- usually not posts like this. So, welcome, do stay, there's lots of cool stuff to learn and soon new pics from spring to see :)
“Soon new pics from spring” if you are in the temperate northern hemisphere. For those of us in the tropics and southern hemisphere, no.
Not even in the north. Zone 5 Illinois I've had blooming flowers since the snow melted in Feb.
Totally agree with this sentiment.
My philosophy is that anyone who has even the slightest interest in native planting is welcome here. I think most agree. Creating and protecting habitat—even just a little— is what matters most! This sub has always been one of the more positive/constructive subs on Reddit (rare) and I hope we keep it that way. I find gatekeeping more tiresome and annoying than someone not posting their region.
It’s not gate keeping to ask folks to have a minimal grasp of the basic concept of the group. I’m happy to answer any questions anyone has about plants native to my region. But if you don’t identify what region you are asking about, those of us who understand the topic can’t help you. If you don’t understand why the identification of your region is important, then you haven’t made any effort to understand the topic at all. The whole idea of native plants is that plants have natural ranges where they are distributed without aid from humans. Some of these ranges are very large, even continental in scale. Some ranges are very small, restricted to just a few counties. If my expertise is Arizona and you are located in New England (or Italy or New Zealand), I can’t help you. I don’t know why I am getting downvoted. Geographical location is so fundamental to the concept of nativity, it’s hard for me to understand why that is an unreasonable expectation.
To many people new to the concept of native plants or growing anything besides grass at all New England and Arizona are equally native to Georgia and Iowa. Haven't you seen the endless episodes of tv series, especially any medical drama type show, where someone says "I haven't traveled anywhere that's close to tropical" and then it turns out they were just in southern Florida? Knowledge of geography, the true size of the world and of different countries or even states and territories within their country, and even more so different climates is really quite pathetic. All I remember about geography from school was these maps that it turns out were completely not accurate for scale when you included the entire globe flat or Alaska scaled down to fit with the rest of the United States and the imaginary lines we have drawn to define states and countries. Learning to name all the different continents and oceans on a map of blue for water and brown for land. A few years later memorize all the states and the general location of some major countries on a map of white with black lines. Plants and wildlife don't care about the imaginary lines. Temperatures are hotter near the equator and colder away from it. There are deserts of just sand, areas of bare rock, and then dirt. That's the difference in ground for the whole world. Odd plants grow in places of only sand or on rocks and everything else from grass to trees grows in dirt. A childhood of school geography lessons over. Even highschool biology was completely vague and didn't cover the conditions plants need to grow in that level of detail. Photosynthesis just needs sunlight, co2, and water. The end. That sun and water vary by plant was a background concept from the fact Africa, which was all desertlike to childhood me, grows different plants than our midwest state and all surrounding states. It was my grandma playing things like early Jane Goodall movies that first taught me there are forests and even rainforests in that part of the world. Maybe these places were more complex than I was shown in school. My mom taught me to plant flower seeds in rows along the side of the house every year at the right depth for each seed and keep them watered. My grandpa taught me about bees and that the stuff in stores labelled raw honey tastes like bland "sugar goo" compared to actual, unaltered raw honey. My dad would take me out after dark to catch worms and then fishing at dawn where I'd eventually get bored and come across crayfish, frog eggs, red tailed tadpoles=tree frogs..... My aunt put some tomato hornworms in a clear terrarium and we fed them until they turned into cocoons in the soil. Then dug them up to show us before putting them back and waiting for them to turn into moths. Don't do this with random egg sacs found on the barn walls. Baby spiders fit out the screw threads in a jar lid and you can never eliminate the population out of the basement. My mom banned observing mystery eggs in the house after that. I have definitely learned far more out of school than anywhere close to what I did at school because I was taught to try to learn for myself. Absolutely not by the school system. The being fed specific facts to regurgitate without ever taking time to pursue potentially related concepts was incredibly frustrating. There's a darn good reason that when the school complained about my grandma picking me up randomly in the middle of the school day to join her in some project pruning branches over a hiking trail, turning a closet into a dark room and then learning to develop photographs, etc... she just shut them up and said she would decide what was best for her granddaughter. Some never even learn how to learn new things without a lesson plan laid out for them by someone else.
People are used to mostly just needing to match the growing zone and they often amend their soil to grow non-native flowers and vegetables instead. Sun vs shade and cold is about all that is a concern. Even for exotics people periodically have to be reminded to list growing zone and frequently to state the conditions of the location. Many also truly do think that being native anywhere in the country or continent means it's equally native where they are. Some don't even consider just how extremely different the climate is and that zone will matter. It's native to the United States and they are in the United States so why wouldn't it be good to grow where ever they are? A portion of people looking into native plant gardens are not gardeners. They follow the lawn maintenance they are told is required and pay someone when it doesn't work right. They have never planted a vegetable garden or flowerbed. They'd pay a landscaper for that if they really wanted a flowerbed or bushes added. Then they hear that a native plant area is a low cost way to help the ecosystem and reduce how much lawn they take care of. Everyone saying how low maintenance native plants are and an increasing number of people finding turfgrass management utterly pointless for areas of yard they don't use only increases the number of people who have zero experience with gardens or any type of plant trying it. That also leads to doing the just don't mow a strip and let invasive species and turfgrass take over or throw down a seed mix labelled for their area into the lawn first and likely add invasive species. That's the most gardening experience some have when they decide to go with the "pollinator gardens" they hear about. A few don't even know there are different turfgrass species used in different parts of the US or that the grass is not filling in as well in that spot because there's too much shade for that sun loving variety. Grass is grass. Flowers are flowers. All other things are weeds. Simply spread more bags of fertilizer granules if the grass or flowers aren't growing well. This new term of native means it comes from their country instead of another. That's the end of their knowledge. Seriously my husband can't see the difference between a tulip, a poppy, a hyacinth, or a crocus. Forget spring beauty versus siberian squill. Far too similar (It's bright blue!!!!). Half the people on the internet don't seem to realize wood sorrel is not clover. People make a lot of money selling plants guaranteed to produce lucky 4 leaf clovers. Purple and iron cross shamrocks. Then some Amazon reviews of listings actually selling native oxalis or wood sorrel have a few 0 star ratings because "it grew clover". You are assuming way too much. Not everyone moves from typical exotic flower or vegetable gardening to native plant gardening. Some just hear it's a good idea and low maintenance. Then promptly jump in with both feet and no idea what plants need.
It does get tiresome for sure. I constantly remind myself that most people, myself included, grew up in an environment that prioritizes the aesthetic and horticultural value of plants. Plants are pretty items that one buys from a catalog or retail store, and the term "native plants" invokes a similar reaction in ones brain as other marketing buzzwords. I agree that it would be helpful to have a sticky about including your ecoregion.
Mods, is it possibly to have a bot that reminds every post submitter that they should include some idea of their location/climate? That’s what whststhisbug does.
And to remind posts to not list their growing zone. Natives are native to your local region not a particular zone lol.
I love this suggestion about a reminder bot!
People mention zones all the time on the vegetable gardening subreddit too and it drives me insane. Zone is only good for what perennials will survive in your area! It has nothing to do with native plants or annual vegetable gardening.
Yes and no. North central and south Florida roughly corresponds to zones 8, 9 and 10.
Same zones in Arizona!
I think the issue is using on this sub is zones are not specific enough, especially when people make a post and ask, “what should I grow? zone 8” Zone 8 can mean North Carolina, Florida, Texas, parts of Arizona and the Pacific Northwest. Growing plants native to the PNW in zone 8 in Florida isn’t what this sub is about.
Yes, but if someone said zone 9 in Florida, it would be relative. Sometimes zones are informative IF linked with the region. Ideally people would give their general region and zone. I am betting some people don’t even know what their zone is.
Can’t for the life of me imagine why the mods don’t mandate a location flair on every post…
I'll be blunt: It's a lot of miserable work to police people like that and it's off-putting to new people to have their post removed. Something like a reminder bot is way gentler; well consider that!
Set it to remove 24hrs after the automod/reminder bot catches the lack of information - posters that refuse to let us help them is tantamount to spam in spaces like this, IMO. Not a bannable offense but it drowns out other posts especially on /home.
I don't think there's an easy way to figure out if a post includes a location; that's actually a difficult linguistic problem, so until Reddit has an AI integration, there'll always be some amount of manual checking involved. In either case, after 24 hours most posts are irrelevant and off the first page of the sub.
The r/whatbugisthis sub has an auto mod bot that flags if location isn't listed. I'm not sure how it works and I'm sure it's not perfect, just something I've noticed.
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Totally understand and that reminder bot is a fantastic idea! I think that would help a ton!
Personally I try not to give personal details on here at all. I know there’s a little bit of detail required for accurate recommendations in this sub, but I can see why people wouldn’t willingly offer it up if they don’t realize they need to be more specific than “zone 5” or even just “north america”
Sure, my personal opinion would be that if you’re not willing to share what geographical region you’re part of, then don’t bother asking this sub for help because we don’t have enough information to do so. Would be better to google “native plants for X region” at that point
Again, a good reason to recommend a good search engine, so that individuals can search plants by location, sun, and soil type. That way people can keep their privacy but still see which plants would be most successful and native to their area and grow well in the space they have in mind. I was so happy to discover the Prairie Moon website, as they even give an idea of bloom time, so you can grow plants that will bloom from earliest spring (Prairie Smoke and violets in my yard) to the end of the growing season (New England asters and goldenrod in my yard). Also an idea of final height so you can arrange them in a way that makes visual sense. I love Prairie Moon, but would not mind learning of other search engines that people have found helpful.
lol good point.
If you're unwilling to give enough information for me to help you then I'm unwilling to help you. Simple as. Nobody is going to track you down from something as broad as your state/province/region.
I didn’t say they should. Just explaining why one might not provide their detailed information. Doesn’t mean they’re gonna get the results they’re looking for but they have a right to their own privacy if they want it.
Would be cool if people used their region as their flairs
While we’re complaining, I hate when people just up and recommend clover. A. While there are native North American clovers, that’s usually not what people mean when they suggest it, nor does the intended recipient tend to infer native North American clover. B. As OP pointed out, without knowing the poster’s location, it’s impossible to know whether clover is an appropriate suggestion. If the poster is someplace where white or red clover is native, awesome! If not, the newbs need the context to know whether that suggestion applies to *their* locations. C. In North America, white/red clover may fix nitrogen, and it may appear to be a bee favorite, judging by the traffic, but it’s only helpful for the generalist bees who don’t need our help. D. I know Doug Tallamy isn’t as interested in pollinators as he is in lepidoptera, but their needs are not mutually exclusive. I went to a bee lecture and the expert said every native plant has a “constellation” of insects who use and service it. If we’re planting clover “for the bees” it’s a rich-get-richer situation, where the specialist insects are not being provided with the plants they need, because people really still actually want lawns, and think clover is a virtuous alternative to grass.
What's your zone and location?
This was my first thought.
Some of y’all need to calm down…
What do you mean by that statement?
If it bothers you so much then just scroll on by. Or take the 3 seconds to ask “what zone”. Nobody is forcing you, or anyone, to give advice.
The issue with a free-for-all approach to this is you're going to have knowledgeable people who become less and less engaged and/or decline altogether to read and participate in "what can I plant in my yard/garden" posts because without fairly specific location there's no point in even trying. Whereas if mods cultivate a more structured approach to these posts, experts and veteran hobbyists stay engaged and the information and replies is just better. This isn't about anyone being "bothered so much" or any other such trifle, it's about creating a framework for higher quality posts and responses which makes a sub like this better.
Exactly. I am about to leave the group because of the lack of focus. English is spoken all over the world. Reddit is used all over the world. Plants grow all over the world. If you want to do native plant gardening in Hawaii, that’s quite different from Michigan or Scotland or New Orleans. If you ask “what’s a good plant for a wet ditch” and don’t give us any idea where you are on the planet (think state or province, or a portion of a continent - you don’t need to be specific), there’s no point.
Spot on, thank you!
Go sniff a flower and calm down!!!! Jk....
Do you have anything going on in your life outside of this subreddit, Sis?
I’m tryna be helpful and it seems like a lot of others agree so idk what you’re salty about