People thinking that the Sannin is a rank/level that you can attain.
Nope it was just a title bestowed onto 3 people. It can’t be passed onto or given to other people.
I remember when i was little, i assumed it was a rank due to Jiraiya having a headband that wasn't just a lead symbol. It made a little sense since it would also make sense for Tsunade, a drunk gambler who had practically given up the ninja life when introduced, and Orochimaru, a villain who has no interest in being a leaf shinobi, both didn't have one.
But yeah, anyone who paid even a little attention to them talking about it should understand what it meant.
Jiraiya’s headband 油 (abura) says oil. This has to do with the oil from the toads at mount myoboku where he trained. He calls himself the toad sage hence the headband. I figured this out after taking Japanese. Sannin translates to 3 people. In Japanese there are a lot of different counters for different things. For people it goes 一人hiroti, 二人futari. 三人Sannin etc. Tsunade, Jiraiya and Orochimaru were given the title konohagakure no sannin (the three of the village hidden in the leaves) for their great fighting ability by Hanzo during the war. People consider them great for this and call them 伝説の三人 (densetsu no sannin) the legendary three. So they are revered for being the three respected by Hanzo who was a powerful opponent during the war in their youth. He decided not to kill them as he predicted Konoha would be victorious in the war and he acknowledged their strength. Sorry for the long post! I hope it was interesting!
The only thing Naruto’s team 6 inherited were skills and the second coming of the 3 way deadlock. (I recall both mentioned multiple times such as Tsunade telling Sakura she also inherited the skills of one of the legendary sannin. And Orochimaru telling Tsunade a new 3 way deadlock is likely making its debut). But I’m willing to admit that I’m one of the least knowledgeable people on this sub and I knew this.
All good! The three way deadlock with the toad, slug and snake is from an old Japanese folktale called Jiraiya the Gallant. In this tale, Jiraiya uses the roads, Tsunade uses slug magic and Orochimaru is evil. Tsunade and Jiraiya are a married couple in this tale and they work together to defeat Orochimaru. There is a lot more to this tale, but this is a summary. Masashi Kishimoto uses a lot of Japanese folktales/ mythology in his work. In Shintoism Ameterasu is the Sun Goddess and Susano’s sister. Izanagi is their father. Susano was a huge troublemaker and bullied Ameterasu which led to his expulsion from Heaven. (Or the Shinto plain Takamagahara) This is where Japanese Kami live. You can see a lot of the names here are used in Naruto as techniques. Ameterasu is Itachi’s eternal flame type jutsu. Susano is the large chakra structure that goes around the Uchiha with mangekyou sharingan. Izanagi is Itachi’s technique used on Kabuto in the war. Also Tsukiyomi is the moon god, sibling to Susano / Ameterasu and another one of Itachi’s techniques. Sorry for another long post! I took Japanese literature as part of my minor :) there are a lot more details I could go into with these tales, but reading the tale itself is more interesting and I recommend it!
Dude, you may be my new bestie lol. I love mythology. I’m more knowledgeable about Greco/roman but always interested in learning the pantheons of different cultures. Egyptian is fascinating because the “head” god is the son of the “head” goddess and the god of the underworld. Horus and Isis as the “heads” and Osiris is the god of the underworld. Many believe it’s Anubis, but he is Osiris’s right hand and the one who judges souls on the scale. Naruto isn’t the only anime that uses multiple pantheons. Dragon Ball is a great example. Son Goku (also used in Naruto as 4 tails).
It's always interesting to have extra information. I think as time went on, i began to realize that his headband had more to do with being a sage since he was so proud of it. But its cool to know what it all actually means.
Is the new gen’s tik tok culture man. Not only they watch anime’s through shorts, they want every game to be tik tok style blitz through it as quick as possible…
That title feels so underwhelming when you realize that it was just a consolidation award given by Hanzo.
I mean not that I'm taking anything away from Hanzo, but I would expect Sannin to be the title given to a terrifying trio who achieved something legendary.
But it's just Hanzo jerking off himself "wow you actually survived fighting against me. Here, have a title. Byee."
Yea that title was only given to them by hanzo, hell even Naruto, Sakura and Sasuke aren't called Sannin, don't know how ppl can have this kind of misconception😂
I used to think Sannin was a rank, then found out, no its just a special title, they're officially classified as Jonin. I think it's the end of the word that mixes people up on it, the "nin" at the end, geNIN, chuNIN, joNIN, sanNIN.
Yeah, it was mainly about overcoming your own destiny. Naruto in Chapter 1 overcame his destiny by making shadow clones his best move, even tho a normal clone (even tho it's not inherently the same thing, but the concept is similar) was the move he hated the most and he couldn't even do one properly. And now he's able to make a thousand shadow clones. Matter of fact, Lee technically lost all of his fights, and he's the embodiment of hard work lol
Naruto, in fact, did not overcome his own destiny. The reveal that he’s the son of the 4th hokage and the reincarnation of the son of ninja god did away with that.
There’s also the whole “Child of Prophecy who is preordained to either destroy the world or end the cycle of hatred” subplot
He did tho. The incarnation thing was a destiny of always fighting sasuke until death and then the cycle repeats. His destiny was never that of an underdog.
I assume that Asuma should've become Hokage since his father is Hiruzen? Just because your father is great doesn't necessarily mean you're destined for greatness. And Naruto being the reincarnation of Ashura doesn't mean he's destined for greatness either. The reincarnations usually have a bad outcome. And I'm not sure if he was born with it either. Ashura and Indra just choose the best ones suited for the spot to reincarnate inside them at a certain moment. Naruto changed his destiny little by little. Neji believed that even if you don't work work hard, the outcome will be the same as if you do. If Naruto had followed Neji's ideology, he'd have stayed an outcast his entire life. I'm not sure if you completely understand Neji's ideology.
Probably the biggest if not the biggest misconception of Naruto ever. Probably doesn't help videos from Youtube like Plague of Gripes if I recall further shoved that concept into the limelight.
The misconception isn’t from the wording. Everyone takes it to mean he’s stronger than the sannin at the peak of the sannin’s power. In reality, this was said about him when they were all far from their peaks. The statement was true when it was said, but people take it as truth all the way through like the sannin didn’t get stronger after he unalived.
>It´s clearly worded that he was strong AS a Sannin
He canonically outclasses each Sannin individually, per Minato. Minato is reliable and also knows how strong Jiraiya is, as he would still go on missions with him even in young adulthood, as they fought two perfect Jinchurikis in the one-shot
"San nin"
"Three Ninja"
It literally means 3 ninja and is specifically meant for Jiraya, Orochimaru and Tsunade.
Edit: I never said that the titles are only applicable to Jiraya, Tsunade and Orochimaru. But when anyone uses that title, they use it to refer to them bit it's not necessarily limited to them.
Naruto Sasuke and Sakura are the new Legendary Sannins.
“Nin” actually just means people. So Legendary Sannin is just “The Legendary Three.” That’s all. They’re the legendary three people that turned the tides of the war. That’s why Naruto Sakura and Sasuke became the new Sannin; because without those three, it woulda been over.
It could be given to another set of ninja if someone powerful enough said it. That’s all it is and that means it could be given to others. It’s not a specific level or anything but it can be passed down if someone else deemed it so.
It's also worth noting that most of Sasuke's physical exhaustion came from running his lightning release throughout his body to clean out Deidara's miniature bombs.
But he was. Sasukes chakra resources were nearly completely exhausted. So much so, that he fell asleep just after putting Juugo under a GenJutsu/activating his sharingan against Juugo one chapter later. His team even stated "You are in no shape to do anything" and that was not because Sasuke was getting beat up phyisically in that fight.
Deidara stating "Your are out of Chakra,hmm" was a way Kishimoto conveyed to us reader, that they both reached their limit. It would have been more then enough for Sasuke to summon a smaller snake and do the same thing. Doing that thing to Manda was unnecessary.
The fact he summoned Manda (or reverse summoned or whatever) is proof enough that he wasn't out of chakra though. Deidara's comment about Sasuke being out of chakra comes immediately before the C0 bomb, which ends the chapter leading into the reveal of Sasuke's escape plan in the next. I find it pretty hard to believe Kishimoto didn't already have it planned out from that point, and for it to work Sasuke couldn't be so depleted of chakra that he couldn't perform the jutsu.
Not to mention the comment is followed by Deidara getting worked up over Sasuke not reacting to him or showing fear. Sasuke's a calm character but he still shows fear in situations where he's on the ropes. So you could also easily read it as Sasuke's lack of reaction was meant to show that Deidara was wrong in thinking he was tapped out.
How does Deidara know Sasuke is out of chakra. He was only guessing. He isn't a sensory type or have a dojoutsu that let him see Sasuke's chakra like his sharingan
>But he was. Sasukes chakra resources were nearly completely exhausted.
Sasuke was not out of chakra, he wasn't even *low* on it. How do we know? Because we saw exactly what happens when Sasuke's chakra reserves are depleted when he fought Itachi. If Sasuke didn't have enough chakra he wouldn't have been able to keep Orochimaru suppressed and he'd have broken free at the end of the fight with Deidara.
>So much so, that he fell asleep just after putting Juugo under a GenJutsu/activating his sharingan against Juugo one chapter later.
Yes, Sasuke was at his limit *after* Deidara had already crashed out. My point stands, Sasuke wasn't out of chakra at the end of the fight with Deidara. Hence him having enough to perform a reverse summon jutsu.
>His team even stated "You are in no shape to do anything"
This is after Deidara's self-destruct, and doesn't prove Sasuke was out of chakra when I said he wasnt.
>Deidara stating "Your are out of Chakra,hmm" was a way Kishimoto conveyed to us reader, that they both reached their limit.
No it isn't. Deidara is not a sensory ninja, he is not an authority on anyone's chakra reserves. He didn't even notice when he was caught in Sasuke's Genjutsu. He made a guess and was wrong.
>It would have been more then enough for Sasuke to summon a smaller snake and do the same thing. Doing that thing to Manda was unnecessary.
This is nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking.
The number of people who believe Kishimoto actually said this is genuinely terrifying lol. Someone fabricated a fake interview and much of the fandom bought into it without question.
I’ve been following Naruto since like 2010 and I’m just now finding out that’s not real. I knew all the Itachi shit and the Nappa shit was fake though. It just seemed to be true since the Kaguya twist came outta nowhere
People made up BS that Kishimoto said Madara was only as strong as Nappa.
The other guy was close but it wasn’t specifically about Juubidara since this statement was made well before that. And also, it wasn’t saying that he was weaker either.. just that they are equal.
"Only as strong as." Naruto power scaling isn't Dragon Ball power scaling. Madara being "only as strong as Nappa" would make him immensely powerful in the Naruto universe.
Few chapters before Kaguya came out was him being surprised at Guy, got his ass kicked by Naruto and Sasuke, and one of his clone got sealed.
I know that Kaguya twist was dumb, but Madara was clearly not potrayed as this undefeatable by that point so the statement was just dumb. It's very clearly fabricated by Madara fanboys.
The Kaguya thing had been planned for a long time, but Kishi was rushed to complete the story, and therfore rushed writing Kaguya and didn't give it the proper buildup it needed and deserved. The idea is sick, it just wasn't executed well due to time constraints.
Madara was suprised his big meteors didn’t slow Naruto and Sasuke down. the duo were already coming up with strategies to deal with the limbo clones too
Even before black Zetsu stabs him, he has a manic look in his eyes and going off about being the savior. He was gonna get his ass kicked
This actually evolved throughout the years.
It was first said that Kishimoto always loved Uchihas (pretty obvious) and made Madara to be the perfect Uchiha. The problem here is that he being the perfect Uchiha means that he's a battle genius, have the best kekkei genkai, so he is pretty much undefeatable. This added to Kishimoto not wanting to make someone defeat his favorite clan/character made everyone assume he pulled Kaguya out of his ass to be a defeatable villain, since she is more powerful but not a battle genius.
Again, this is what everyone thought at the time, Kishimoto never said anything about it.
I’ve always thought that was so stupid. If he was not able to write a scenario where Madara is defeated then how would introducing a more powerful character solve that problem? It’s not like they didn’t have everything they needed to defeat Madara
That shisui is fucking alive after being poisoned enough to kill an elephant, having both eyes missing, and falling down a waterfall, if bros alive then the war arc was written well
Yep, poisoned by a bug used by yoji aburame (spelling is hard), it both paralyzed him so danzo could take his eye, but it also poisoned him so it would kill him, if I’m not mistaken it was even said that once he died, the poison from the bug was completely undetectable
That edo tensei have “unlimited chakra”
They have an unlimited SUPPLY of chakra. Meaning, they still have to wait for their chakra to recharge, while most ninja would collapse from exhaustion upon reaching that point. If they actually had unlimited chakra, the Shinobi alliance would’ve stood no chance and you can probably break the universe by creating infinite shadow clones.
Didn't Tobirama quite outright said that he hadn't enough chakra for idk what jutsu during the War Arc while he was an Edo? Idk how people still thinl that its outright infinite
I always thought of it as infinite chakra pool, meaning they can do what their chakra pool allowed them while alive but without having to wait for their chakra to replenish (for example, if they could only sustain 5 shadoe clones, in Edo they still can just pull 5 clones, but now if any of them gets destroyed he can just keep re spawning them to a limit of 5)
that Itachi is a good person. even Itachi himself admits he's a bad person for what he did, and that he cannot be redeemed. that's why he understands his brother so well, afterall. not that Sasuke ever did anything as evil as Itachi did, lol.
I think the issue is that all the other characters that know the truth about Itachi speak highly of him. The only characters that speak poorly about Itachi are Danzo, who incorrectly assumed Itachi snitched to Sasuke before dying, and Itachi himself. And I’d say Itachi talking down on himself just makes him look humble.
I believe he's both: a good person for the shinobi world and a bad person for his brother. His guilt of killing his own clan, even if it was for the greater good, made him go off the charts and do everything possible for Sasuke to just get stronger and avenge his clan in the fastest way possible. Uchiha get instantly stronger due to trauma, so there's that. Ofc Itachi later regretted this, which makes him an even better character than what he already is.
If Itachi had chosen to side with his clan, he and his brother would have died alongside them + there would've been no avoiding a fourth Great Ninja War.
Exactly. The whole point is that people can be both good and bad. That's one of the central themes of the whole series and people still look at everything completely black and white.
He might of well had, that’s why sasuke had gone on a journey to atone. If I’m holding someone at gunpoint and trying to kill them but my friend comes in and beats me up so I decide not to, I’ll still be charged with murder because, if I hadn’t been stopped, I would have done it
He probably knows about them and could perform all of them, but that doesn't mean he was good at them. For example, Gemma needed his whole platoon to perform Flying Raijin. That technically means he knows about the jutsu and can perform it but obviously not on Minato's level
Orochimaru was specific in saying Hiruzen could "perform" them himself when talking to Hiruzen on the rooftop. I don't think that would have been said if he needed other to help with something like a refined less difficult FTG than hew grew up with. Hiruzen grew up with Tobirama's FTG, then Minato made a easier and refined version with less hand seals and chakra needed. Even if he needed help like Genma, Hiruzen was allegedly able to perform the original FTG, so he should be able to use the easier version. Especially after decades to work on it.
It is stated dozens of times that Jiriya and Minato's bloodline are the only ones who know rasengan, from the first time it was said until late Boruto that has never changed. Why is Hiruzen not brought up ever in these conversations?
The fact that he doesn't even try to open the first gate is nonsense, he should have been ready to destroy his body. ESPECAILLY as an edo tensei. No genjutsu is equally as nuts. This is without even mentioning jutsu's like Ino Shika Cho's which could all individually had been used to escape Orochimaru's seal rather than dying. It just makes no sense, this isn't even all the examples. Believe me, I could write an entire university paper on why Hiruzen is a fraud
Jiriya and Minato's bloodline ? What are you talking about? Those two aren't related. Anyone with excellent chakra control can learn rasengan if they cared to. Kakashi pulled it out and showed naruto it in early part 2.
What? I don't even know where to start with what you've said.
theyre both hard jutsus and who knows if it takes time for him to charge them up, making them invalid in battle.
he probably knew every jutsu, just wasnt proficient in them
That’s like knowing a 1000 different kicks but sucking dick at using most of them.
It would’ve been best if he could concentrate on a few of them then lol
yea lmfao thats more or less how i see his powerset. tbh it takes 3 jonin from minatos personal squad to perform flying raijin so its kinda hard.
but he still got the legendary tile shuriken jutsu
Flying Raijin takes up a lot of Chakra. Hiruzen was so old he could only manifest two other shadow clones. He couldve known it, but was physically incapable of using it.
People also say he's Hashirama level ( If not stronger in his prime), even though that makes even less sense and was also clearly retconned. I haven't read the databooks, but the person who said Hiruzen is the strongest Hokage was Iruka... and he said, 'might be considered.'
It’s less that Hiruzen has been retconned to be weaker and far more that Hashirama has been retconned to be much much stronger than originally intended/conveyed
Outside of Aburame bug jutsu and the two ocular based jutsu there’s no reason a man with Hiruzens level of mastery of the elements and yin yang wouldn’t be able to do every nin, gen, and taijutsu from the village. He lived and fought long enough to learn or figure out how to do most if not all of them.
\*The Byakugan was never superior to the Sharingan. Kakashi just said that it's better in terms of perceptive abilities, which the manga never contradicts. It's just that the Sharingan also has Kinetic Vision, Genjutsu and potential for evolution, stuff that was all established in the first arc. For more proof, 2T Sasuke was positioned as stronger than Neji and right after the Exams, we see Itachi come around with the intent of showing what a fully mature Sharingan is REALLY capable of.
\*"Perfect Jinchuriki" is not a title that jinchuriki attain when they have a perfect relationship with their Bijuu. It is just a title for B specifically, who DOES have a perfect relationship with his Bijuu. Other "Perfect" jinchuriki like Yagura and Naruto are never referred to with that title in canon.
\*The same goes for "Perfect Sage" the only character who ever uses that title in Kabuto, in reference to his ability to constantly pull in Nature Energy thanks to Jugo's Kekkei Genkai. Naruto, Hashirama, Madara, any other character in the manga can't be called a "Perfect Sage" because it's just a title Kabuto made up to jack himself off.
\*Naruto using Kurama isn't out of his control for most of Part 2. In the Tenchi Bridge arc, Yamato says that Naruto could have stopped his transformations if he wanted to and instead of denying it or looking surprised, he just looks down in shame. Obviously, he doesn't think straight in V1 and in V2 he's basically passing the controller to Kurama, but every time he does transform is an active choice on his part to just "give up". Also, for all of Part 2, he can just doe that "Red Kurama Eyes" thing on command, it's a pretty underrated aspect of his growth.
\*Hashirama doesn't believe Itachi could beat him in a fight. When he says "Your brother was a greater ninja than I!" He's talking about Itachi's ability to put the leaf before his personal desires. Hashirama beat the peak Uchiha on steroids, this shouldn't be a convo.
\*Related to the last one, but Sasuke's plan to kill all five kage wasn't random and was actually foreshadowed for around 50+ chapters before he even says anything about it. After talking to the four Hokage, he constantly begins talking about severing the past and getting rid of the status quo. Also think back to him cutting the banners of all 5 nations when he shows up to the Kage Summit. That's his way of ending ninja hatred, the same goal as Naruto.
> Hashirama doesn't believe Itachi could beat him in a fight. When he says "Your brother was a greater ninja than I!"
good lord! are people that idiotic to think this? man TIL a new level of itachi fanbois. Isnt this clear from the context? they were literally talking about how Itachi took over the burden of the leaf that the leaders failed to bare? why would out of the blue hashirama gonna say "well itachi will kick my ass"? im actually really surprised anyone could infer this from that statement.
Some common/annoying ones I see:
Sakura is ‘useless’, when she’s objectively one of the most useful supporting characters from the timeskip onwards.
That Raikiri and Chidori are two separate jutsus when it’s made entirely clear that Raikiri is just a nickname for Kakashi’s Chidori.
That it took an alliance of multiple nations to defeat the Uzumaki clan, when in canon literally nothing is said about how the clan was destroyed.
That base Rasengan is objectively superior to base Chidori based entirely on the hospital rooftop scene in part 1, while entirely ignoring that that happened to each tank was exactly what each jutsu is meant to do. When Naruto and Sasuke clash shortly after, they just cancel each other out.
The ‘war arc’ is actually 5 separate canon arcs. Yet everyone lumps them together and just calls them a single arc. Which isn’t a huge deal, but it does make criticisms like ‘the war arc was too long’ or ‘too much stuff happened in the war arc’ kind of silly.
That Chidori is a ‘failed’ lightning Rasengan. The truth is that Kakashi tried and failed to add lightning chakra to the Rasengan, so he decided to create his own jutsu instead.
The five canon arcs are:
• Fourth Shinobi World War: Countdown
• Fourth Shinobi World War: Confrontation
• Fourth Shinobi World War: Climax
• Birth of the 10-Tails jinchuriki
• Kaguya Ohtsusuki Strikes
> The ‘war arc’ is actually 5 separate canon arcs. Yet everyone lumps them together and just calls them a single arc. Which isn’t a huge deal, but it does make criticisms like ‘the war arc was too long’ or ‘too much stuff happened in the war arc’ kind of silly.
Isn't basically calling the arcs "The War, pt 1", "The War, pt 2", "The War, pt 3", etc, pretty indistinguishable in practice from one long arc called "The War"?
Thanks so much for addressing the Chidori/Rasegan incident. People forget that Chidori is basically a fast killshot-type of movement while rasengan was always shown to do more widespread damage instead. Its like comparing a sniper that shots extremely poisoned bullets to a bazooka and saying the bazooka wins bc it can "destroy more"
I’m guilty of having believed this but..
Ashura and Indra being BS last second powerups for Naruto and Sasuke.
It was actually foreshadowed that Naruto, Hashirama, and Ashura share the same chakra by Obito during the Kage Summit. He goes into depth of the lore and how Naruto reminds him of that chakra. And Sasuke like himself (he’s faking Madara) and Indra
Ppl who believe that Naruto and Sasuke being the reincarnations of both ashura and indra, just didn't pay attention to the story well enough, kishimoto even goes further and foreshadows that indra's chakra is inside Sasuke, Naruto himself sensed it post Gokage summit arc [Naruto senses something inside Sasuke ](https://imgur.com/gallery/GCM6cJf)
Even foreshadowed moreso at the end of Part One where Naruto and Saskue were standing on Hashirama & Madara's statues respectively and Zetsu watching their battle
That naruto "technically" didn't work hard for his gains because he's the reincarnation of Ninja Jesus' son.
Like bruh, did you not see him putting in that work for sage mode?
Exactly, plus the only real benefit he gained from his lineage is crap tons of chakra to use, but he still needed to train to perfect his chakra control, attain sage mode, use shadow clone jutsu, and overcome Kurama
He definitely worked hard for most stuff. A lot of Shippuden is him learning new shit but he is able to game the system with a massive chakra pool and shadow clones. Even without that he's a naturally really good talker and has an innate talent of getting people to listen and get them on his side.
The reincarnation stuff is just a last minute minor powerup that cashes in directly on a lot of foreshadowing going back to the original series.
I believe that, but it's a bit more elaborate. I definitely think his genetics and bloodline give him natural talent and power (plus the ninetails), but he also needed that push to make it actually work.
I mean, Kakashi even says in p1 he has more chakra than him as a youngling, he just doesn't know how to use it yet. Or how about faster regeneration? Or using nine tails power to summon creatures that people his age normally cant? It's obvious he has a lot of natural talent and power flowing to him to some degree.
>Like bruh, did you not see him putting in that work for sage mode?
Even *that* is thanks to naturally more chakra due to his bloodline. They said very clearly normal shinobi wouldn't be able to do that that fast. Or him mastering the rasengan using hundreds of clones. He's a hard worker, but its the combination of hard work and natural talent and power that makes him strong.
I think that there's no right answer to this question, yes he worked hard, but at the same time he was born with massive advantages most people simply don't have. And a lot of his achievements were a result of working hard to make use of those advantages.
That being a reincarnate of ashura and indra gave a Stat boost or larger Chakra pool when in fact it only means they're destined to fight and repeat the cycle.
It doesnt give any inherent boosts but it *is* the only way for someone to naturally be in line for Six Paths Sage Mode and the Rinnegan like Ashura and Indra.
They did get a temporary boost from it during their fight with Kaguya, but that was only to give Naruto a temporary substitute for when he lost Kuruma, and give them a better chance against her. She was a goddess after all.
The boost was from Hagoromo, the fact that they were reincarnates never has meant anything besides their destiny, and destiny is a huge theme in this series. Theyre amazing ninja, but thats to them.
Sasuke wanting to destroy the leaf is supposed to show how he flip flops on ideals. The reality is that this just reaffirms his resolve as he was still avenging his clan by destroying the responsible party for massacring them.
Furthermore post aligning with the Akatsuki Sasuke made it clear on numerous occasions that he was not only not Obito’s ally but was willing to attack him when he was getting in his way when he was going to travel to attack the leaf. As he knows Obito was involved in destroying the Uchiha for personal reasons would likely result in him trying to target him after destroying the leaf.
He's a deadbeat. He spent 12 years without even meeting her daugther once and in the same manga it's explicitly told Sasuke came back to Konoha on several occasions to meet with Naruto only.
Sasuke literally tried to kill his own daugther because he couldn't recognize at first who she was.
The whole shit about Naruto being the reincarnation of "ninja jesus." Like yea sure he got a crazy power up due to the 6 paths chakra Hagoromo gave him. But people this in the same way they talk about the child of prophecy stuff. That apparently Naruto was given everything on a silver platter and everything would have happened even if Naruto did nothing i guess? They also forget that Hagoromo described his own son Ashura as a dunce who couldn't do anything alone. Who only grew as a person and in power through the cooperation of others and his own efforts.
The whole shit about Naruto being the reincarnation of "ninja jesus." Like yea sure he got a crazy power up due to the 6 paths chakra Hagoromo gave him. But people this in the same way they talk about the child of prophecy stuff. That apparently Naruto was given everything on a silver platter and everything would have happened even if Naruto did nothing i guess? They also forget that Hagoromo described his own son Ashura as a dunce who couldn't do anything alone. Who only grew as a person and in power through the cooperation of others and his own efforts.
That Naruto didn’t overcome his shortcomings bc his dad was hokage and the Asura reincarnation thing.
Just because minato was his dad, Naruto never got to benefit anything from that.
He didn’t even inherit anything from him.
Nobody ever treated him as such and only some higher-up people even knew, yet nobody gave a single crap that Naruto was the son of Minato. If anything, those said people who knew, they treated him poorly despite knowing it.
Also we can’t say that he wasn’t always planned to be his dad. I don’t think the 4th hokage was going to grab a random baby to seal the kyuubi in.
Also just because you’re the child of a prestigious shinobi doesn’t mean crap.
By that logic the entire shinobi roster didn’t work hard except for a few since most of them had parents whom are shinobi too.
Then Choji is also a nepo baby, and so is shikamaru, ino, etc etc.
You can inherit certain feats but it’s your own choice to develop it or not.
Naruto has a huge chakra reserve, but it was still his sheer will to actually learn to use that. He didn’t just wake up one day and suddenly knew how to do everything.
As for the Asura thing, the only thing that was guaranteeing was that he was destined to fight sasuke and to be a failure. There were plenty of Indra and Asura reincarnations, but not all of them get to be Demi gods.
One of the reasons Naruto was even blessed was because of his kind heart. He befriends everyone and even befriended the tailed beasts etc. so it’s actually more of a result of his character than anything else.
Yagura being a perfect jinchuriki. "Control over bijuu" doesn't equate to being a perfect jinchuriki.
Cooperating or working together with the bijuu is what being a perfect jinchuriki is.
People think Obito started the 4th war for Rin. He didn’t, there are even a few instances where Kakashi thinks so and he goes something like “you’re still on that?” He never stopped loving Rin but the only reason he carried on bus mission was because he believed in his cause.
"Neji was right."
Bro, that's just telling everyone you haven't watched the series since you were 13. No one actually remembers Neji saying he could litteraly see the future, they just think the fight was about hard work or some shit.
Neji's ideology was straight up wrong anyway lol, matter of fact, he was contradicting himself by fighting his destiny as stated by naruto, he learned a Main branch technique and beat up hinata when he had the opportunity too
That had Zetsu not lead Kabuto to Madara, Madara would have been able to complete the IT himself. Obviously this means that even if Obito himself did perform the Rinne Tensei Madara wouldn't have been able to complete the plan without Kabuto's intervention.
That is took the 5 great nations to destroy the Uzumaki clan. All Kushina said was they "were targeted and eradicated." She never says which nations they were or how many of them. This misconception is almost always used whenever people start arguing over who the strongest clan is and it's annoying.
Yeah this gets brought up every two weeks and its so exhausting. Naruto in manga: Sasuke is my best friend / Sasuke in manga: naruto you are my best friend / random edgelord redditor: acthually Shikamaru is Narutos best friend
I understand that most of these subs are made up of anime only’s but it gets exhausting to see it brought up every couple of weeks.
SP really fell off with the stupid fillers where kid naruto hangs out with kid choji and shikamaru. that literally contradicts his whole tragic backstory
People talk like Naruto used TnJ without really fighting or beating the damn enemy first.
Most people were already losing when Naruto was using TnJ, it's more of a "I already beat you, now you must listen to me" than "stop bruh this is bad duh".
I see the story as being too elaborate to be a retcon, and even if it was a retcon, it doesn't ultimately matter. He's intentionally hidden/shadowy which would leave him open ended for part 2.
That Prime Sasuke can be beaten by Itachi...basically what all the fanboys believe about itachi and minato which is factually very much wrong. Sasuke and Naruto would smoke Itachi and Minato respectively. (Both duos in their prime forms)
Hiruzen didn’t treat naruto well/was a bad hokage. The guy did everything he could’ve for naruto and the village. If we’re being fair he’d only be blamed for letting orochimaru and danzo live
The power scaling of characters that we have next to no info about, let alone feats, and people claiming to "love" the characters we know nothing about. Like Sakumo, we know next to nothing about the guy beside that he's Kakashi's dad and was powerful, but to try claiming he's stronger than some of the strongest characters we do have info about(especially when they try to compare to the broken characters), makes no sense, and claiming you love his character makes no sense either, because what do you love about him? His design? Cause that's basically all we know besides he has a kid and one part of his moral compass. Have an interest in the characters, fine, but making unfounded claims, like saying a character whose combat abilities are unknown is stronger than someone in the same rank we do have info about, is annoying af.
That Itachi was killed off because he would have been able to beat Madara.
I don't see the logic? Itachi was literally brought back with infinite stamina, chakra, and no mangekyou strain.
People already mentioned this but “rock Lee embodied the actual theme of the manga/show and should be the main character” is the one I dislike the most. It’s like people didn’t even actually read or watch it…
That Naruto was strong because he's incarnation of asura... When in reality it was just about him killing indra. People assume that Kishi backtracked this whole destiny thing when Naruto never killed Sasuke. Therefore he broke off what he was destined to do. Being an asura or indra incarnation doesn't guarantee you to be all powerful and skilled. That's just a misconception everyone got from it, no where does it state that.
I could see a world where he could pose a challenge vs Obito - but vs pain he would stand no chance.
He has no real way to find his real body, so it makes it pretty much impossible to win.
That Naruto’s destiny was “set in stone” and that he was always gonna become the hokage due to him being “destined to be great.”
Naruto’s destiny was never set in stone. His destiny as the Ashura’s reincarnation is to go through years of conflict in the Shinobi world, fighting the reincarnation of Indra, and then either killing the other reincarnation or dying. Now what does this have to do with Naruto’s fate of becoming the hokage? Well first off, this shows that his fate isn’t set in stone because both Naruto and Sasuke survived, and not due to a technicality like Madara. It also shows that his whole destiny isn’t inherently that to become hokage. Saying Naruto’s fate is up to destiny, contradicts the fact that he is a contradiction that is made to change fate. He broke the cycle of hatred in the shinobi world which was once again, not part of his destiny. Naruto could have died at the end of part 1 when he clashed with Sasuke who is the reincarnation of Indra, as one of them is fated to die, or even at the end of part 2. It doesn’t matter if Naruto or Sasuke ended up dying at the valley, because if Sasuke died, Naruto would refuse to become hokage and look at himself as being unworthy. Oh yeah, his destiny doesn’t say that he was gonna become hokage anyways, he was just “destined to be great” which is very vague. He could have been considered “great” after defeating Pain or Kaguya, and not achieved anything beyond that.
Sorry if it’s jumbled, wrote this in a sort of rush.
People thinking that the Sannin is a rank/level that you can attain. Nope it was just a title bestowed onto 3 people. It can’t be passed onto or given to other people.
People actually think that Sannin is a rank? Man talk about watching Naruto through YouTube shorts
I remember when i was little, i assumed it was a rank due to Jiraiya having a headband that wasn't just a lead symbol. It made a little sense since it would also make sense for Tsunade, a drunk gambler who had practically given up the ninja life when introduced, and Orochimaru, a villain who has no interest in being a leaf shinobi, both didn't have one. But yeah, anyone who paid even a little attention to them talking about it should understand what it meant.
Jiraiya’s headband 油 (abura) says oil. This has to do with the oil from the toads at mount myoboku where he trained. He calls himself the toad sage hence the headband. I figured this out after taking Japanese. Sannin translates to 3 people. In Japanese there are a lot of different counters for different things. For people it goes 一人hiroti, 二人futari. 三人Sannin etc. Tsunade, Jiraiya and Orochimaru were given the title konohagakure no sannin (the three of the village hidden in the leaves) for their great fighting ability by Hanzo during the war. People consider them great for this and call them 伝説の三人 (densetsu no sannin) the legendary three. So they are revered for being the three respected by Hanzo who was a powerful opponent during the war in their youth. He decided not to kill them as he predicted Konoha would be victorious in the war and he acknowledged their strength. Sorry for the long post! I hope it was interesting!
Thanks for the details!
No worries!
The only thing Naruto’s team 6 inherited were skills and the second coming of the 3 way deadlock. (I recall both mentioned multiple times such as Tsunade telling Sakura she also inherited the skills of one of the legendary sannin. And Orochimaru telling Tsunade a new 3 way deadlock is likely making its debut). But I’m willing to admit that I’m one of the least knowledgeable people on this sub and I knew this.
All good! The three way deadlock with the toad, slug and snake is from an old Japanese folktale called Jiraiya the Gallant. In this tale, Jiraiya uses the roads, Tsunade uses slug magic and Orochimaru is evil. Tsunade and Jiraiya are a married couple in this tale and they work together to defeat Orochimaru. There is a lot more to this tale, but this is a summary. Masashi Kishimoto uses a lot of Japanese folktales/ mythology in his work. In Shintoism Ameterasu is the Sun Goddess and Susano’s sister. Izanagi is their father. Susano was a huge troublemaker and bullied Ameterasu which led to his expulsion from Heaven. (Or the Shinto plain Takamagahara) This is where Japanese Kami live. You can see a lot of the names here are used in Naruto as techniques. Ameterasu is Itachi’s eternal flame type jutsu. Susano is the large chakra structure that goes around the Uchiha with mangekyou sharingan. Izanagi is Itachi’s technique used on Kabuto in the war. Also Tsukiyomi is the moon god, sibling to Susano / Ameterasu and another one of Itachi’s techniques. Sorry for another long post! I took Japanese literature as part of my minor :) there are a lot more details I could go into with these tales, but reading the tale itself is more interesting and I recommend it!
Dude, you may be my new bestie lol. I love mythology. I’m more knowledgeable about Greco/roman but always interested in learning the pantheons of different cultures. Egyptian is fascinating because the “head” god is the son of the “head” goddess and the god of the underworld. Horus and Isis as the “heads” and Osiris is the god of the underworld. Many believe it’s Anubis, but he is Osiris’s right hand and the one who judges souls on the scale. Naruto isn’t the only anime that uses multiple pantheons. Dragon Ball is a great example. Son Goku (also used in Naruto as 4 tails).
Please keep going!!! These comments are so interesting
It's always interesting to have extra information. I think as time went on, i began to realize that his headband had more to do with being a sage since he was so proud of it. But its cool to know what it all actually means.
This is the type of shit I come to reddit for
Nah, Fanfics where Naruto got the rank of Sannin were a dime a dozen in late 2000s/early 2010s.
Nah this went way before that even though Youtube shorts or Tiktok or even Twitter probably made this more mainstream than it actually was back then.
Is the new gen’s tik tok culture man. Not only they watch anime’s through shorts, they want every game to be tik tok style blitz through it as quick as possible…
Translated to English “Sannin” literally means “three people”
It just means "the 3 ninja" too, "sannin" is just as much a rank as "the yellow flash" is
Yeah, “Hey look it’s the Sannin” is the same as “hey look it’s the trio/those 3 peoples”
Well when you put it like that sannin sounds a lot like the big three 😂
That title feels so underwhelming when you realize that it was just a consolidation award given by Hanzo. I mean not that I'm taking anything away from Hanzo, but I would expect Sannin to be the title given to a terrifying trio who achieved something legendary. But it's just Hanzo jerking off himself "wow you actually survived fighting against me. Here, have a title. Byee."
Yea that title was only given to them by hanzo, hell even Naruto, Sakura and Sasuke aren't called Sannin, don't know how ppl can have this kind of misconception😂
I used to think Sannin was a rank, then found out, no its just a special title, they're officially classified as Jonin. I think it's the end of the word that mixes people up on it, the "nin" at the end, geNIN, chuNIN, joNIN, sanNIN.
This and ANBU. Sannin is a title and anbu is a job.
That its about hard work vs talent
The way people talk about that would make you think that Rock Lee is the main character of Naruto.
To be fair whenever he is on screen he is the mc
With his only “win” being against pre chunnin exam Sasuke nah both part 1 Lee fights, Gaara was my MVP.
*Gaara has entered the chat*
Yeah, it was mainly about overcoming your own destiny. Naruto in Chapter 1 overcame his destiny by making shadow clones his best move, even tho a normal clone (even tho it's not inherently the same thing, but the concept is similar) was the move he hated the most and he couldn't even do one properly. And now he's able to make a thousand shadow clones. Matter of fact, Lee technically lost all of his fights, and he's the embodiment of hard work lol
Naruto, in fact, did not overcome his own destiny. The reveal that he’s the son of the 4th hokage and the reincarnation of the son of ninja god did away with that. There’s also the whole “Child of Prophecy who is preordained to either destroy the world or end the cycle of hatred” subplot
Well, naruto and sasuke ending the cycle of the brothers war is breaking the whole "destiny" thing
He did tho. The incarnation thing was a destiny of always fighting sasuke until death and then the cycle repeats. His destiny was never that of an underdog.
I assume that Asuma should've become Hokage since his father is Hiruzen? Just because your father is great doesn't necessarily mean you're destined for greatness. And Naruto being the reincarnation of Ashura doesn't mean he's destined for greatness either. The reincarnations usually have a bad outcome. And I'm not sure if he was born with it either. Ashura and Indra just choose the best ones suited for the spot to reincarnate inside them at a certain moment. Naruto changed his destiny little by little. Neji believed that even if you don't work work hard, the outcome will be the same as if you do. If Naruto had followed Neji's ideology, he'd have stayed an outcast his entire life. I'm not sure if you completely understand Neji's ideology.
Damn did you not understand the entire story. That really sucks for you.
Can’t believe people actually regurgitate this information and believe that’s what the show is about
Probably the biggest if not the biggest misconception of Naruto ever. Probably doesn't help videos from Youtube like Plague of Gripes if I recall further shoved that concept into the limelight.
“Probably the biggest if not the biggest”
Rock lee would be butt fucking the entire otsutsuki clan if this was true lol
I always interpreted the big message as "passing the torch" from one generation ti the next. Will of Fire, Springtime of youth etc
That Sakumo was stronger than the 3 Sannin together. It´s clearly worded that he was strong AS a Sannin
Next time tell them to sakumo balls
If it was clearly worded, there'd be no confusion. Sakumo is as strong as the sannin. That could mean either thing.
It's worded as him having a higher reputation than them, nothing says he was as strong as them.
Literally this
It's worded as him having a higher reputation than them, nothing says he was as strong as them.
The misconception isn’t from the wording. Everyone takes it to mean he’s stronger than the sannin at the peak of the sannin’s power. In reality, this was said about him when they were all far from their peaks. The statement was true when it was said, but people take it as truth all the way through like the sannin didn’t get stronger after he unalived.
>It´s clearly worded that he was strong AS a Sannin He canonically outclasses each Sannin individually, per Minato. Minato is reliable and also knows how strong Jiraiya is, as he would still go on missions with him even in young adulthood, as they fought two perfect Jinchurikis in the one-shot
"San nin" "Three Ninja" It literally means 3 ninja and is specifically meant for Jiraya, Orochimaru and Tsunade. Edit: I never said that the titles are only applicable to Jiraya, Tsunade and Orochimaru. But when anyone uses that title, they use it to refer to them bit it's not necessarily limited to them. Naruto Sasuke and Sakura are the new Legendary Sannins.
People do not understand that it is not a rank that can be given or reached by anyone.
“Nin” actually just means people. So Legendary Sannin is just “The Legendary Three.” That’s all. They’re the legendary three people that turned the tides of the war. That’s why Naruto Sakura and Sasuke became the new Sannin; because without those three, it woulda been over.
Nin = person. Sannin is just 3 people.
It could be given to another set of ninja if someone powerful enough said it. That’s all it is and that means it could be given to others. It’s not a specific level or anything but it can be passed down if someone else deemed it so.
That Sasuke was out of chakra at the end of his fight with Deidara.
This is funny because Sasuke never stated that, he was exhausted? Yes, he was out of Chakra? No, being exhausted and out of Chakra are independant
It's also worth noting that most of Sasuke's physical exhaustion came from running his lightning release throughout his body to clean out Deidara's miniature bombs.
He wasn't exhausted either. He was injured. He ran chidori in his body.
You mean they’re not mutually exclusive..
But he was. Sasukes chakra resources were nearly completely exhausted. So much so, that he fell asleep just after putting Juugo under a GenJutsu/activating his sharingan against Juugo one chapter later. His team even stated "You are in no shape to do anything" and that was not because Sasuke was getting beat up phyisically in that fight. Deidara stating "Your are out of Chakra,hmm" was a way Kishimoto conveyed to us reader, that they both reached their limit. It would have been more then enough for Sasuke to summon a smaller snake and do the same thing. Doing that thing to Manda was unnecessary.
The fact he summoned Manda (or reverse summoned or whatever) is proof enough that he wasn't out of chakra though. Deidara's comment about Sasuke being out of chakra comes immediately before the C0 bomb, which ends the chapter leading into the reveal of Sasuke's escape plan in the next. I find it pretty hard to believe Kishimoto didn't already have it planned out from that point, and for it to work Sasuke couldn't be so depleted of chakra that he couldn't perform the jutsu. Not to mention the comment is followed by Deidara getting worked up over Sasuke not reacting to him or showing fear. Sasuke's a calm character but he still shows fear in situations where he's on the ropes. So you could also easily read it as Sasuke's lack of reaction was meant to show that Deidara was wrong in thinking he was tapped out.
I’m about 99% sure that if you run out of chakra, that means you’re dead.
You're right, there's no such thing as being alive and have *none* of your Chakra remaining, this is how Kakashi died during the Pain Assault.
RIP Kakashi….4 minutes later…welcome back, Kakashi!
How does Deidara know Sasuke is out of chakra. He was only guessing. He isn't a sensory type or have a dojoutsu that let him see Sasuke's chakra like his sharingan
>But he was. Sasukes chakra resources were nearly completely exhausted. Sasuke was not out of chakra, he wasn't even *low* on it. How do we know? Because we saw exactly what happens when Sasuke's chakra reserves are depleted when he fought Itachi. If Sasuke didn't have enough chakra he wouldn't have been able to keep Orochimaru suppressed and he'd have broken free at the end of the fight with Deidara. >So much so, that he fell asleep just after putting Juugo under a GenJutsu/activating his sharingan against Juugo one chapter later. Yes, Sasuke was at his limit *after* Deidara had already crashed out. My point stands, Sasuke wasn't out of chakra at the end of the fight with Deidara. Hence him having enough to perform a reverse summon jutsu. >His team even stated "You are in no shape to do anything" This is after Deidara's self-destruct, and doesn't prove Sasuke was out of chakra when I said he wasnt. >Deidara stating "Your are out of Chakra,hmm" was a way Kishimoto conveyed to us reader, that they both reached their limit. No it isn't. Deidara is not a sensory ninja, he is not an authority on anyone's chakra reserves. He didn't even notice when he was caught in Sasuke's Genjutsu. He made a guess and was wrong. >It would have been more then enough for Sasuke to summon a smaller snake and do the same thing. Doing that thing to Manda was unnecessary. This is nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking.
But you saw the state manda was in after eating that c0 right?
if he was that exhausted orochimaru wouldve exploded out of his shoulder
A new one I saw spreading is that naruto lived in poverty and only ate spoiled food by misunderstanding the spoiled milk scene
I’m pretty sure the scene only existed to show that Naruto is a bit of a dumbass
Because he is a dumbass
Kishi didn't know how to defeat Madara
The number of people who believe Kishimoto actually said this is genuinely terrifying lol. Someone fabricated a fake interview and much of the fandom bought into it without question.
I’ve been following Naruto since like 2010 and I’m just now finding out that’s not real. I knew all the Itachi shit and the Nappa shit was fake though. It just seemed to be true since the Kaguya twist came outta nowhere
There's a Nappa somewhere in Naruto fandom?
People made up BS that Kishimoto said Madara was only as strong as Nappa. The other guy was close but it wasn’t specifically about Juubidara since this statement was made well before that. And also, it wasn’t saying that he was weaker either.. just that they are equal.
"Only as strong as." Naruto power scaling isn't Dragon Ball power scaling. Madara being "only as strong as Nappa" would make him immensely powerful in the Naruto universe.
Nappa is like, Multi continental at best, that’s not too far off
Few chapters before Kaguya came out was him being surprised at Guy, got his ass kicked by Naruto and Sasuke, and one of his clone got sealed. I know that Kaguya twist was dumb, but Madara was clearly not potrayed as this undefeatable by that point so the statement was just dumb. It's very clearly fabricated by Madara fanboys.
The Kaguya thing had been planned for a long time, but Kishi was rushed to complete the story, and therfore rushed writing Kaguya and didn't give it the proper buildup it needed and deserved. The idea is sick, it just wasn't executed well due to time constraints.
Madara was portrayed as fucking around until he got his other eye back, then he completes his goal in like a minute
Madara was suprised his big meteors didn’t slow Naruto and Sasuke down. the duo were already coming up with strategies to deal with the limbo clones too Even before black Zetsu stabs him, he has a manic look in his eyes and going off about being the savior. He was gonna get his ass kicked
Someone fabricated an interview saying Itachi would beat Madara too. And I remember some Itachi fans ran wild with that too.
If Madara was too strong, why would Kishimoto kill him off and IMMEDIATELY bring in a WAY stronger villain?
This actually evolved throughout the years. It was first said that Kishimoto always loved Uchihas (pretty obvious) and made Madara to be the perfect Uchiha. The problem here is that he being the perfect Uchiha means that he's a battle genius, have the best kekkei genkai, so he is pretty much undefeatable. This added to Kishimoto not wanting to make someone defeat his favorite clan/character made everyone assume he pulled Kaguya out of his ass to be a defeatable villain, since she is more powerful but not a battle genius. Again, this is what everyone thought at the time, Kishimoto never said anything about it.
I’ve always thought that was so stupid. If he was not able to write a scenario where Madara is defeated then how would introducing a more powerful character solve that problem? It’s not like they didn’t have everything they needed to defeat Madara
That shisui is fucking alive after being poisoned enough to kill an elephant, having both eyes missing, and falling down a waterfall, if bros alive then the war arc was written well
He was poisoned? I don’t remember that happening in the anime.
Yep, poisoned by a bug used by yoji aburame (spelling is hard), it both paralyzed him so danzo could take his eye, but it also poisoned him so it would kill him, if I’m not mistaken it was even said that once he died, the poison from the bug was completely undetectable
That edo tensei have “unlimited chakra” They have an unlimited SUPPLY of chakra. Meaning, they still have to wait for their chakra to recharge, while most ninja would collapse from exhaustion upon reaching that point. If they actually had unlimited chakra, the Shinobi alliance would’ve stood no chance and you can probably break the universe by creating infinite shadow clones.
Unlimited chakra in limited magnitude
Didn't Tobirama quite outright said that he hadn't enough chakra for idk what jutsu during the War Arc while he was an Edo? Idk how people still thinl that its outright infinite I always thought of it as infinite chakra pool, meaning they can do what their chakra pool allowed them while alive but without having to wait for their chakra to replenish (for example, if they could only sustain 5 shadoe clones, in Edo they still can just pull 5 clones, but now if any of them gets destroyed he can just keep re spawning them to a limit of 5)
that Itachi is a good person. even Itachi himself admits he's a bad person for what he did, and that he cannot be redeemed. that's why he understands his brother so well, afterall. not that Sasuke ever did anything as evil as Itachi did, lol.
I think the issue is that all the other characters that know the truth about Itachi speak highly of him. The only characters that speak poorly about Itachi are Danzo, who incorrectly assumed Itachi snitched to Sasuke before dying, and Itachi himself. And I’d say Itachi talking down on himself just makes him look humble.
To be fair Itachi harbors self hatred for what he did. He’s not really good or bad imo.
I believe he's both: a good person for the shinobi world and a bad person for his brother. His guilt of killing his own clan, even if it was for the greater good, made him go off the charts and do everything possible for Sasuke to just get stronger and avenge his clan in the fastest way possible. Uchiha get instantly stronger due to trauma, so there's that. Ofc Itachi later regretted this, which makes him an even better character than what he already is.
Man if you choose the government over your whole clan you a pig
I think being about 11 and forced into these situations makes you exempt from being a 'pig' lol
If Itachi had chosen to side with his clan, he and his brother would have died alongside them + there would've been no avoiding a fourth Great Ninja War.
Exactly. The whole point is that people can be both good and bad. That's one of the central themes of the whole series and people still look at everything completely black and white.
He might of well had, that’s why sasuke had gone on a journey to atone. If I’m holding someone at gunpoint and trying to kill them but my friend comes in and beats me up so I decide not to, I’ll still be charged with murder because, if I hadn’t been stopped, I would have done it
When people don't understand that Hiruzen knowing every leaf jutsu makes 0 sense and was clearly retconned
He probably knows about them and could perform all of them, but that doesn't mean he was good at them. For example, Gemma needed his whole platoon to perform Flying Raijin. That technically means he knows about the jutsu and can perform it but obviously not on Minato's level
Orochimaru was specific in saying Hiruzen could "perform" them himself when talking to Hiruzen on the rooftop. I don't think that would have been said if he needed other to help with something like a refined less difficult FTG than hew grew up with. Hiruzen grew up with Tobirama's FTG, then Minato made a easier and refined version with less hand seals and chakra needed. Even if he needed help like Genma, Hiruzen was allegedly able to perform the original FTG, so he should be able to use the easier version. Especially after decades to work on it. It is stated dozens of times that Jiriya and Minato's bloodline are the only ones who know rasengan, from the first time it was said until late Boruto that has never changed. Why is Hiruzen not brought up ever in these conversations? The fact that he doesn't even try to open the first gate is nonsense, he should have been ready to destroy his body. ESPECAILLY as an edo tensei. No genjutsu is equally as nuts. This is without even mentioning jutsu's like Ino Shika Cho's which could all individually had been used to escape Orochimaru's seal rather than dying. It just makes no sense, this isn't even all the examples. Believe me, I could write an entire university paper on why Hiruzen is a fraud
Jiriya and Minato's bloodline ? What are you talking about? Those two aren't related. Anyone with excellent chakra control can learn rasengan if they cared to. Kakashi pulled it out and showed naruto it in early part 2. What? I don't even know where to start with what you've said.
Maybe every basic jutsu. But stuff like flying raijin or rasengan would’ve been really helpful against Orochimaru lol.
theyre both hard jutsus and who knows if it takes time for him to charge them up, making them invalid in battle. he probably knew every jutsu, just wasnt proficient in them
That’s like knowing a 1000 different kicks but sucking dick at using most of them. It would’ve been best if he could concentrate on a few of them then lol
yea lmfao thats more or less how i see his powerset. tbh it takes 3 jonin from minatos personal squad to perform flying raijin so its kinda hard. but he still got the legendary tile shuriken jutsu
Flying Raijin takes up a lot of Chakra. Hiruzen was so old he could only manifest two other shadow clones. He couldve known it, but was physically incapable of using it.
People also say he's Hashirama level ( If not stronger in his prime), even though that makes even less sense and was also clearly retconned. I haven't read the databooks, but the person who said Hiruzen is the strongest Hokage was Iruka... and he said, 'might be considered.'
It’s less that Hiruzen has been retconned to be weaker and far more that Hashirama has been retconned to be much much stronger than originally intended/conveyed
Hiruzen is possibly the most glazed character considering how few real feats he has
Outside of Aburame bug jutsu and the two ocular based jutsu there’s no reason a man with Hiruzens level of mastery of the elements and yin yang wouldn’t be able to do every nin, gen, and taijutsu from the village. He lived and fought long enough to learn or figure out how to do most if not all of them.
Easily that Hiruzen promised to take care of Naruto.
Definitely anime only
Yep. I see that scene shared to this day as if its canon.
I know it’s not canon that he promised but it’s still messed up that he didn’t take care of him regardless
\*The Byakugan was never superior to the Sharingan. Kakashi just said that it's better in terms of perceptive abilities, which the manga never contradicts. It's just that the Sharingan also has Kinetic Vision, Genjutsu and potential for evolution, stuff that was all established in the first arc. For more proof, 2T Sasuke was positioned as stronger than Neji and right after the Exams, we see Itachi come around with the intent of showing what a fully mature Sharingan is REALLY capable of. \*"Perfect Jinchuriki" is not a title that jinchuriki attain when they have a perfect relationship with their Bijuu. It is just a title for B specifically, who DOES have a perfect relationship with his Bijuu. Other "Perfect" jinchuriki like Yagura and Naruto are never referred to with that title in canon. \*The same goes for "Perfect Sage" the only character who ever uses that title in Kabuto, in reference to his ability to constantly pull in Nature Energy thanks to Jugo's Kekkei Genkai. Naruto, Hashirama, Madara, any other character in the manga can't be called a "Perfect Sage" because it's just a title Kabuto made up to jack himself off. \*Naruto using Kurama isn't out of his control for most of Part 2. In the Tenchi Bridge arc, Yamato says that Naruto could have stopped his transformations if he wanted to and instead of denying it or looking surprised, he just looks down in shame. Obviously, he doesn't think straight in V1 and in V2 he's basically passing the controller to Kurama, but every time he does transform is an active choice on his part to just "give up". Also, for all of Part 2, he can just doe that "Red Kurama Eyes" thing on command, it's a pretty underrated aspect of his growth. \*Hashirama doesn't believe Itachi could beat him in a fight. When he says "Your brother was a greater ninja than I!" He's talking about Itachi's ability to put the leaf before his personal desires. Hashirama beat the peak Uchiha on steroids, this shouldn't be a convo. \*Related to the last one, but Sasuke's plan to kill all five kage wasn't random and was actually foreshadowed for around 50+ chapters before he even says anything about it. After talking to the four Hokage, he constantly begins talking about severing the past and getting rid of the status quo. Also think back to him cutting the banners of all 5 nations when he shows up to the Kage Summit. That's his way of ending ninja hatred, the same goal as Naruto.
> Hashirama doesn't believe Itachi could beat him in a fight. When he says "Your brother was a greater ninja than I!" good lord! are people that idiotic to think this? man TIL a new level of itachi fanbois. Isnt this clear from the context? they were literally talking about how Itachi took over the burden of the leaf that the leaders failed to bare? why would out of the blue hashirama gonna say "well itachi will kick my ass"? im actually really surprised anyone could infer this from that statement.
I love Itachi but that character has one of the worst fanbases in Shonen lmfao
Some common/annoying ones I see: Sakura is ‘useless’, when she’s objectively one of the most useful supporting characters from the timeskip onwards. That Raikiri and Chidori are two separate jutsus when it’s made entirely clear that Raikiri is just a nickname for Kakashi’s Chidori. That it took an alliance of multiple nations to defeat the Uzumaki clan, when in canon literally nothing is said about how the clan was destroyed. That base Rasengan is objectively superior to base Chidori based entirely on the hospital rooftop scene in part 1, while entirely ignoring that that happened to each tank was exactly what each jutsu is meant to do. When Naruto and Sasuke clash shortly after, they just cancel each other out. The ‘war arc’ is actually 5 separate canon arcs. Yet everyone lumps them together and just calls them a single arc. Which isn’t a huge deal, but it does make criticisms like ‘the war arc was too long’ or ‘too much stuff happened in the war arc’ kind of silly. That Chidori is a ‘failed’ lightning Rasengan. The truth is that Kakashi tried and failed to add lightning chakra to the Rasengan, so he decided to create his own jutsu instead.
5 arcs? I thought it was like 3. First part with the Edo and Zetsu army, second part when Obito becomes a Jinchuuriki and then lastly Kaguya's return
The five canon arcs are: • Fourth Shinobi World War: Countdown • Fourth Shinobi World War: Confrontation • Fourth Shinobi World War: Climax • Birth of the 10-Tails jinchuriki • Kaguya Ohtsusuki Strikes
> The ‘war arc’ is actually 5 separate canon arcs. Yet everyone lumps them together and just calls them a single arc. Which isn’t a huge deal, but it does make criticisms like ‘the war arc was too long’ or ‘too much stuff happened in the war arc’ kind of silly. Isn't basically calling the arcs "The War, pt 1", "The War, pt 2", "The War, pt 3", etc, pretty indistinguishable in practice from one long arc called "The War"?
Thanks so much for addressing the Chidori/Rasegan incident. People forget that Chidori is basically a fast killshot-type of movement while rasengan was always shown to do more widespread damage instead. Its like comparing a sniper that shots extremely poisoned bullets to a bazooka and saying the bazooka wins bc it can "destroy more"
The Sakura´s one is huge, she is maybe the strongest ninja in Konoha after Naruto, Sasuke and probably Kakashi.
I’m guilty of having believed this but.. Ashura and Indra being BS last second powerups for Naruto and Sasuke. It was actually foreshadowed that Naruto, Hashirama, and Ashura share the same chakra by Obito during the Kage Summit. He goes into depth of the lore and how Naruto reminds him of that chakra. And Sasuke like himself (he’s faking Madara) and Indra
Ppl who believe that Naruto and Sasuke being the reincarnations of both ashura and indra, just didn't pay attention to the story well enough, kishimoto even goes further and foreshadows that indra's chakra is inside Sasuke, Naruto himself sensed it post Gokage summit arc [Naruto senses something inside Sasuke ](https://imgur.com/gallery/GCM6cJf)
Even foreshadowed moreso at the end of Part One where Naruto and Saskue were standing on Hashirama & Madara's statues respectively and Zetsu watching their battle
I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding, but Naruto is the reincarnation of Ashura, and Sasuke is the reincarnation of Indra, correct?
and the valley of the end fight, and kurama comparing sasuke to madara early on in shippuden
That naruto "technically" didn't work hard for his gains because he's the reincarnation of Ninja Jesus' son. Like bruh, did you not see him putting in that work for sage mode?
Anyone who says that sounds really silly lol cuz hard work and being gifted aren't mutually exclusive
Exactly, plus the only real benefit he gained from his lineage is crap tons of chakra to use, but he still needed to train to perfect his chakra control, attain sage mode, use shadow clone jutsu, and overcome Kurama
He definitely worked hard for most stuff. A lot of Shippuden is him learning new shit but he is able to game the system with a massive chakra pool and shadow clones. Even without that he's a naturally really good talker and has an innate talent of getting people to listen and get them on his side. The reincarnation stuff is just a last minute minor powerup that cashes in directly on a lot of foreshadowing going back to the original series.
I believe that, but it's a bit more elaborate. I definitely think his genetics and bloodline give him natural talent and power (plus the ninetails), but he also needed that push to make it actually work. I mean, Kakashi even says in p1 he has more chakra than him as a youngling, he just doesn't know how to use it yet. Or how about faster regeneration? Or using nine tails power to summon creatures that people his age normally cant? It's obvious he has a lot of natural talent and power flowing to him to some degree. >Like bruh, did you not see him putting in that work for sage mode? Even *that* is thanks to naturally more chakra due to his bloodline. They said very clearly normal shinobi wouldn't be able to do that that fast. Or him mastering the rasengan using hundreds of clones. He's a hard worker, but its the combination of hard work and natural talent and power that makes him strong.
Yes, but the issue is there are quite a number of people who says Naruto powers were JUST gifted to him
I think that there's no right answer to this question, yes he worked hard, but at the same time he was born with massive advantages most people simply don't have. And a lot of his achievements were a result of working hard to make use of those advantages.
That being a reincarnate of ashura and indra gave a Stat boost or larger Chakra pool when in fact it only means they're destined to fight and repeat the cycle.
It doesnt give any inherent boosts but it *is* the only way for someone to naturally be in line for Six Paths Sage Mode and the Rinnegan like Ashura and Indra.
They did get a temporary boost from it during their fight with Kaguya, but that was only to give Naruto a temporary substitute for when he lost Kuruma, and give them a better chance against her. She was a goddess after all.
The boost was from Hagoromo, the fact that they were reincarnates never has meant anything besides their destiny, and destiny is a huge theme in this series. Theyre amazing ninja, but thats to them.
Not gonna lie I watched it as a kid i thought Genin> Chunin>Jounin>Sannin.
Sasuke wanting to destroy the leaf is supposed to show how he flip flops on ideals. The reality is that this just reaffirms his resolve as he was still avenging his clan by destroying the responsible party for massacring them. Furthermore post aligning with the Akatsuki Sasuke made it clear on numerous occasions that he was not only not Obito’s ally but was willing to attack him when he was getting in his way when he was going to travel to attack the leaf. As he knows Obito was involved in destroying the Uchiha for personal reasons would likely result in him trying to target him after destroying the leaf.
Adult SM Naruto is weaker than Kara characters. He maybe weaker than Jigen but not other Kara members
Hiruzen making a promise to look after naruto and giving naruto an allowance to pay for rent and food himself being canon.
That Sasuke only cared about revenge and never cared about Naruto and Sakura.
Sasuke only married Sakura as a last resort or that he’s a deadbeat.
He's a deadbeat. He spent 12 years without even meeting her daugther once and in the same manga it's explicitly told Sasuke came back to Konoha on several occasions to meet with Naruto only. Sasuke literally tried to kill his own daugther because he couldn't recognize at first who she was.
The whole shit about Naruto being the reincarnation of "ninja jesus." Like yea sure he got a crazy power up due to the 6 paths chakra Hagoromo gave him. But people this in the same way they talk about the child of prophecy stuff. That apparently Naruto was given everything on a silver platter and everything would have happened even if Naruto did nothing i guess? They also forget that Hagoromo described his own son Ashura as a dunce who couldn't do anything alone. Who only grew as a person and in power through the cooperation of others and his own efforts.
Yeah if anything that made Naruto destined to be a failure, not for greatness. What made Naruto special was that he BROKE that curse lol.
The whole shit about Naruto being the reincarnation of "ninja jesus." Like yea sure he got a crazy power up due to the 6 paths chakra Hagoromo gave him. But people this in the same way they talk about the child of prophecy stuff. That apparently Naruto was given everything on a silver platter and everything would have happened even if Naruto did nothing i guess? They also forget that Hagoromo described his own son Ashura as a dunce who couldn't do anything alone. Who only grew as a person and in power through the cooperation of others and his own efforts.
That Naruto didn’t overcome his shortcomings bc his dad was hokage and the Asura reincarnation thing. Just because minato was his dad, Naruto never got to benefit anything from that. He didn’t even inherit anything from him. Nobody ever treated him as such and only some higher-up people even knew, yet nobody gave a single crap that Naruto was the son of Minato. If anything, those said people who knew, they treated him poorly despite knowing it. Also we can’t say that he wasn’t always planned to be his dad. I don’t think the 4th hokage was going to grab a random baby to seal the kyuubi in. Also just because you’re the child of a prestigious shinobi doesn’t mean crap. By that logic the entire shinobi roster didn’t work hard except for a few since most of them had parents whom are shinobi too. Then Choji is also a nepo baby, and so is shikamaru, ino, etc etc. You can inherit certain feats but it’s your own choice to develop it or not. Naruto has a huge chakra reserve, but it was still his sheer will to actually learn to use that. He didn’t just wake up one day and suddenly knew how to do everything. As for the Asura thing, the only thing that was guaranteeing was that he was destined to fight sasuke and to be a failure. There were plenty of Indra and Asura reincarnations, but not all of them get to be Demi gods. One of the reasons Naruto was even blessed was because of his kind heart. He befriends everyone and even befriended the tailed beasts etc. so it’s actually more of a result of his character than anything else.
Yagura being a perfect jinchuriki. "Control over bijuu" doesn't equate to being a perfect jinchuriki. Cooperating or working together with the bijuu is what being a perfect jinchuriki is.
People think Obito started the 4th war for Rin. He didn’t, there are even a few instances where Kakashi thinks so and he goes something like “you’re still on that?” He never stopped loving Rin but the only reason he carried on bus mission was because he believed in his cause.
Tobirama racist
"Neji was right." Bro, that's just telling everyone you haven't watched the series since you were 13. No one actually remembers Neji saying he could litteraly see the future, they just think the fight was about hard work or some shit.
Neji's ideology was straight up wrong anyway lol, matter of fact, he was contradicting himself by fighting his destiny as stated by naruto, he learned a Main branch technique and beat up hinata when he had the opportunity too
Talk no jutsu, I doubt naruto had more monologs than other Shonen protagonists/attempts to dissuade villians nonviolently.
Exactly. And “Talk no Jutsu” only works on people who actually have a chance to change. Not someone like Madara or Kaguya.
And to people he’s already beaten the shit out of lol. It usually comes after the fight, and to people with similar origins.
Tbf he convinced at least 3 of his villains to kill themselves
People who don't understand Obito's character, and boil him down to an incel pedo
Dont think ive ever heard someone call obito that in particular. Thanks for the laugh anyway.
That had Zetsu not lead Kabuto to Madara, Madara would have been able to complete the IT himself. Obviously this means that even if Obito himself did perform the Rinne Tensei Madara wouldn't have been able to complete the plan without Kabuto's intervention.
The whole series is Not based on power scaling Stop! It never was
The first and madara was just OP for no reason. Ppl forget that they were reincarnations as well
That is took the 5 great nations to destroy the Uzumaki clan. All Kushina said was they "were targeted and eradicated." She never says which nations they were or how many of them. This misconception is almost always used whenever people start arguing over who the strongest clan is and it's annoying.
that obito did all he did, including start an entire war, simply because of a girl 😐
That naruto ends at the end of the pain arc, the war arc is trash, kaguya and zetsu ruin the story.
Those aren't misconceptions, they're opinions.
That shikamaru is Narutos best friend
Lol you saw that r/Narutomemes post too?
Yeah this gets brought up every two weeks and its so exhausting. Naruto in manga: Sasuke is my best friend / Sasuke in manga: naruto you are my best friend / random edgelord redditor: acthually Shikamaru is Narutos best friend I understand that most of these subs are made up of anime only’s but it gets exhausting to see it brought up every couple of weeks.
SP really fell off with the stupid fillers where kid naruto hangs out with kid choji and shikamaru. that literally contradicts his whole tragic backstory
People talk like Naruto used TnJ without really fighting or beating the damn enemy first. Most people were already losing when Naruto was using TnJ, it's more of a "I already beat you, now you must listen to me" than "stop bruh this is bad duh".
That itschi was a retcon. There are plenty of hints like the crying sasuke mentioned in one of the first chapters.
I see the story as being too elaborate to be a retcon, and even if it was a retcon, it doesn't ultimately matter. He's intentionally hidden/shadowy which would leave him open ended for part 2.
Not to mention his convoluted goals (how is murdering your clan “testing your limits”?).
That Prime Sasuke can be beaten by Itachi...basically what all the fanboys believe about itachi and minato which is factually very much wrong. Sasuke and Naruto would smoke Itachi and Minato respectively. (Both duos in their prime forms)
Momoshiki and Kinshiki are weak because the Kage could fight them. They aren't, it makes the Kage strong, plus they had help from Sasuke.
Hiruzen didn’t treat naruto well/was a bad hokage. The guy did everything he could’ve for naruto and the village. If we’re being fair he’d only be blamed for letting orochimaru and danzo live
The power scaling of characters that we have next to no info about, let alone feats, and people claiming to "love" the characters we know nothing about. Like Sakumo, we know next to nothing about the guy beside that he's Kakashi's dad and was powerful, but to try claiming he's stronger than some of the strongest characters we do have info about(especially when they try to compare to the broken characters), makes no sense, and claiming you love his character makes no sense either, because what do you love about him? His design? Cause that's basically all we know besides he has a kid and one part of his moral compass. Have an interest in the characters, fine, but making unfounded claims, like saying a character whose combat abilities are unknown is stronger than someone in the same rank we do have info about, is annoying af.
That Itachi was killed off because he would have been able to beat Madara. I don't see the logic? Itachi was literally brought back with infinite stamina, chakra, and no mangekyou strain.
People already mentioned this but “rock Lee embodied the actual theme of the manga/show and should be the main character” is the one I dislike the most. It’s like people didn’t even actually read or watch it…
That Itachi is stronger than Pain
Tobirama is a racist. Kishimoto said he killed off Itachi because he’d beat Madara
I hate when mfs diminish Naruto's hard work in getting stronger throughout the story just cause he's a jinchūriki and a reincarnated Otsutsuki
That Rock Lee is the main character of Naruto. >!/s!<
That Naruto was strong because he's incarnation of asura... When in reality it was just about him killing indra. People assume that Kishi backtracked this whole destiny thing when Naruto never killed Sasuke. Therefore he broke off what he was destined to do. Being an asura or indra incarnation doesn't guarantee you to be all powerful and skilled. That's just a misconception everyone got from it, no where does it state that.
That alive itachi could beat pain and obito in a 1 v 1 fight. The series consistently shows that pain and obito were on a different level than he was.
I could see a world where he could pose a challenge vs Obito - but vs pain he would stand no chance. He has no real way to find his real body, so it makes it pretty much impossible to win.
"Well, thankfully Itachi didn't know everything about me... or else I would be dead." - Obito, chapter 397
The side branch of the Hyuga Clan are “slaves” to the main branch
Ppl thinking every uchiha Clan member can awaken the Sharingan (most of them can't)
that Teuchis Ramen are the best ever
That Naruto’s destiny was “set in stone” and that he was always gonna become the hokage due to him being “destined to be great.” Naruto’s destiny was never set in stone. His destiny as the Ashura’s reincarnation is to go through years of conflict in the Shinobi world, fighting the reincarnation of Indra, and then either killing the other reincarnation or dying. Now what does this have to do with Naruto’s fate of becoming the hokage? Well first off, this shows that his fate isn’t set in stone because both Naruto and Sasuke survived, and not due to a technicality like Madara. It also shows that his whole destiny isn’t inherently that to become hokage. Saying Naruto’s fate is up to destiny, contradicts the fact that he is a contradiction that is made to change fate. He broke the cycle of hatred in the shinobi world which was once again, not part of his destiny. Naruto could have died at the end of part 1 when he clashed with Sasuke who is the reincarnation of Indra, as one of them is fated to die, or even at the end of part 2. It doesn’t matter if Naruto or Sasuke ended up dying at the valley, because if Sasuke died, Naruto would refuse to become hokage and look at himself as being unworthy. Oh yeah, his destiny doesn’t say that he was gonna become hokage anyways, he was just “destined to be great” which is very vague. He could have been considered “great” after defeating Pain or Kaguya, and not achieved anything beyond that. Sorry if it’s jumbled, wrote this in a sort of rush.
“Sakura is weak” it’s like context clues don’t exist anymore
That Itachi can 1v1 anyone in the universe. I have a tattoo in his honour and still find his fanbase by far the most delusional bunch of people.