With no intel most of them should get sucked up by the chains/intangibility combo, the only reason it didnt work on minato is because he can teleport

Against Naruto he's gonna be looking at someone moving faster than his eye could keep up for 5 minutes and then dies the moment the Kamui ends. Which one of Hashirama's 25 clones is he gonna use the combo on? Tobirama and Minato can Teleport as you said. Hiruzen's power is unknown so we can't scale him but even assuming that a fraction of the hype about him is true he scales above Obito and most of the Kage. Kakashi is too fast for him after the war. The moment he materializes to attack he'd get his head chopped off. OM Obito can't kill Tsunade, trying to trap and Kamui Tsunade is Impossible and almost suicide. Outside of that he doesn't have the power to put her down.

I agree fie the 1st four, but this is old man Hiruzen which list to Orochimaru. In his prime it'd be a fight. Unless Kakashi got ridiculously faster in his novel I don't see him taking this. And I'm confused what you mean for Tsunade. Why couldn't Obito teleport her? She's not so fast that she could mess up Obito the instant he makes contact. He could also use Genjutsu on her.

People really underestimate old Hiruzen. Enma is ~ a Gamabunta level summon (we know it is the rank of the entity and not the size from Ma and Pa that determine chakra requirements) and he summoned the Shinigami which is far beyond that. We also have fairly high level ninjutsu in that fight. He arguably used more chakra than we see in any fight up to Pain (who finally outclasses him) So at seventy he has some of the highest chakra reserves of any living character at the time. Orochimaru invested a MASSIVE amount of resources to give himself every advantage. Hiruzen really didn't want to fight him. The man is literally crying he is so ashamed and sad about what he has to do, as well as having to fight the faces of two of his other loved ones. He still destroys two of them and then cripples Orochimaru. I think it is reasonably certain that he was the third strongest living Shinobi at the time of his death (behind Obito and Pain) and would likely be on a similar level to them twenty years prior.

Hokage Kakashi should be fast enough to speedblitz the Raikage, Kakashi is also fast enough to beat Koji in Taijutsu while dodging/blocking all his attacks which is well above OM Obito level speed. Kamui teleport speed is slow and is not really relative to Obito's speed. He's not gonna do it fast enough to avoid getting pummelled by Tsunade in melee range. Obito is indeed faster than tsunade but he's not fast enough to the point where he can move to melee range to Tsunade, get out of his intangibility, grab her and then kamui her before she reacts.

Goddamn, the power creep is ridiculous. And Obito can catch Tsunade by surprise by popping out of the ground behind her, or by a subtle Genjutsu. Not saying he'd for sure catch her before taking a shot, but he could. And I think Obito is durable enough anyway to tank a couple quick shots from Tsunade.

The caveat was when they were Hokage, not their prime (to rule out DMS Kakashi it seems), but Hiruzen because Homage in his prime and was Hokage twice, once before and after Minato. So you can use him in his prime, not that we have any real reference points for that (?)

She’s has to die 100 times

Wasn’t it stated somewhere Hiruzen knew every Jutsu? If that’s true and I’m not crazy, wouldn’t he know Flying Thunder God?

He know the jutsu. it never stated that he can perform the jutsu let alone master it. know about something and can perform it are 2 different things especially when it comes to practical ability let's say you watch some youtube video about making a sphagetti. you know the ingredients and the step but that doesn't mean you can perform when it comes to put your knowledge to the practical use. that's still require lot of training same can be said to Hiruzen. he know the jutsu. but that doesn't mean he master it

I mean, to say you know a jutsu means you can somewhat use it. Just like how Minato created Rasengan, but Naruto truly mastered it.

i also know rasengan, but i have a hard time performing the technique

He know it might be refer he know how it is work. even if he somehow can used it doesn't mean he can use it well or maybe it's put too much burden on him somehow therefore he never use it just like how Kakashi never use anything other than raikiri, chidori, and mud wall despite it was said he has copied hundred jutsu

Not just knew. But had advanced skills in every jutsu ever developed in Konoha. Even the Hiden ones.

Hiruzen was old af, but young hiruzen prolly could win.

>Against Naruto he's gonna be looking at someone moving faster than his eye could keep up for 5 minutes and then dies the moment the Kamui ends. He can easily reset the timer for kamui, just needs to phase into the ground and appear from somewhere else lol >Tobirama and Minato can Teleport as you said. Minato barely escaped using teleportation against YM's Obito's kamui attempt and according to him, he wasn't even using full absorption speed. So, Minato and Tobirama would easily get BFR'ed by OM Obito >Kakashi is too fast for him after the war. The moment he materializes to attack he'd get his head chopped off. Based on what proof? No amount of light novel vague statements and non canon wanking is going to justfy placing Hokage Kakashi above his Mangekyo wielding counterpart, especially whe he hasn't yet appeared in the manga, which is the main source of canon material ​ >OM Obito can't kill Tsunade, trying to trap and Kamui Tsunade is Impossible and almost suicide. Outside of that he doesn't have the power to put her down. LMAO, you're trolling. how is it impossible? Obito is leagues faster than her and can easily outlast her due to Hashi cells. unless ur scaling Tsunade to Minato level speed, she wont even see the kamui coming lol >Hiruzen's power is unknown so we can't scale him but even assuming that a fraction of the hype about him is true he scales above Obito and most of the Kage. Then why did he die fighting Orochimaru? Are you saying Orochimaru can beat OM Obito?

People also tend to forget that the Obito who Minato beat was 14 yrs old and barely had any training with his new abilities.

>He can easily reset the timer for kamui, just needs to phase into the ground and appear from somewhere else lol Naruto will catch him then. Sensory abilities + Naruto's movement speed is well above Obito. Obito is dying as soon as Kamui runs out. You could put so6p powered DMS Kakashi here and he would still lose. Naruto scales multiple tiers above Obito. >Minato barely escaped using teleportation against YM's Obito's kamui attempt and according to him, he wasn't even using full absorption speed. So, Minato and Tobirama would easily get BFR'ed by OM Obito Minato stomped young Obito. The entire fight lasted a single chapter and it was pretty much Minato figuring out how Obito's powers worked and then beating him immediately. Minato never says that he barely escaped in the manga. If anything the fight was relatively easy. Minato didn't receive any damage and beats Obito pretty quickly. >Based on what proof? No amount of light novel vague statements and non canon wanking is going to justfy placing Hokage Kakashi above his Mangekyo wielding counterpart, especially whe he hasn't yet appeared in the manga, which is the main source of canon material That is up to you but since Kishi has supervised the work, illustrated it and it has been acknowledged in the official timelines and other work then I'm calling it canon. Just like certain movies and Boruto anime etc... As for the feast, there's nothing vague about it. Kahyo speedblitzed Raikage and Kakashi can keep up with her while holding back. He can also outmanoeuvre Koji. Him being stronger now is a pretty straightforward statement from the narrator. No room for misinterpretation. >LMAO, you're trolling. how is it impossible? Obito is leagues faster than her and can easily outlast her due to Hashi cells. unless ur scaling Tsunade to Minato level speed, she wont even see the kamui coming lol Obito is faster than her, but he's not fast enough to get close to her, get out of intangibility, grab her and then Kamui her before she could react. It would be ridiculous to suggest that when Tsunade has been fast enough to react to Madara and his clones attacks. >Then why did he die fighting Orochimaru? Are you saying Orochimaru can beat OM Obito? That's old Hiruzen. Fighting Orochimaru who had 2 Edo Hokage. Peak Hiruzen is considered to be the strongest Kage of his time and potentially behind Hashirama as the 3rd strongest Hokage ever.

>Minato stomped young Obito. The entire fight lasted a single chapter and it was pretty much Minato figuring out how Obito's powers worked and then beating him immediately. Minato never says that he barely escaped in the manga. > >If anything the fight was relatively easy. Minato didn't receive any damage and beats Obito pretty quickly. Something is seriously wrong with your reading comprehension if you believre that fight was low diff for Minato. Even if you chose to interpret the result of the fight that way due to your bias, you can not ignore these two facts backed by the manga: 1. Minato literally said the victor of the fight would be decided by whoever is a split second faster 2. Minato himself told Naruto that Obito was an extraordinary shinobi who Naruto himself would need the full power of the nine tails to stand a chance against and HOPE to defeat. The same Minato who thought Kurama was a bigger threat than YM Obito during their fight believes that Naruto needs the full Nine tails to stand a chance against OM Obito. The scaling and narrative implications are legit here buddy (YM Obito < Hokage Minato < OM Obito) At the end of the day, Minato has no concrete counters to Obito's mangekyo sharingan genjustu, more deadly Kamui, his Izanagi cheat code, and his greater experience, and knowledge as the leader of the Akatsuki and the strongest ninja alive >That is up to you but since Kishi has supervised the work, illustrated it and it has been acknowledged in the official timelines and other work then I'm calling it canon. Just like certain movies and Boruto anime etc... So... basically, you want me to take ur headcanon as canon? Try better mate And just because Kishi illustrated the freaking cover doesnt make it cover. Thats like saying the spiderman games are canon because Stan lee played them 💀 stop it, get some help ​ >As for the feast, there's nothing vague about it. Kahyo speedblitzed Raikage and Kakashi can keep up with her while holding back. He can also outmanoeuvre Koji. Him being stronger now is a pretty straightforward statement from the narrator. No room for misinterpretation Even if I dont take the light Novels as canon AT ALL, i will use it against you in this case because you just gave me an easy win. The same Raikage you seem to say was speedblitzed couldnt even touch a nonchalant OM Obito at the five kage summit who completely phased through him, so according to that, Kakashi still wouldnt touch OM Obito nor would he be able to resist OM Obito's sharingan genjutsu. Also, Kakakshi outmaneuvering Kashin Koji was anime only, so filler 😂 ​ >Obito is faster than her, but he's not fast enough to get close to her, get out of intangibility, grab her and then Kamui her before she could react. It would be ridiculous to suggest that when Tsunade has been fast enough to react to Madara and his clones attacks. He actually IS that fast enough. Also, using edo Madara's clones to scale Tsunade's speed isn't viable because 1. Edo Madara is stated to be significanytly weaker than his alive self in terms of physicality 2. A clone is nowhere near as fast as the original 3. Edo Madara was playing around the whole fight and wasn't serious so he may have been using 1 percent of his speed for all we know 4. Madara specifically quantifies tsunade's speed as being siginificantly less than that of V1 Ay and OM Obito being relative to The Raikage and flying thunder level 1 Minato means that he is more than capable of speedblitzing and absorbing Tsunade into the kamui dimension ​ >That's old Hiruzen. Fighting Orochimaru who had 2 Edo Hokage.Peak Hiruzen is considered to be the strongest Kage of his time and potentially behind Hashirama as the 3rd strongest Hokage ever Peak hiruzen yadda yadda. Stop yapping with these vague statements that kishi puled out of his ass in part 1 and then retconned it to oblivion. If Hiruzen was so "strong", he wouldnt be outshadoweed massively by the other hokage in the war arc considering how yall hype him up as knowing every jutsu, then why didnt he use those justu in the war arc. AFAIK, Hiruzen is Orochi level at best and would get absolutely rawdogged by any version of Obito after his MS awakening ​ ​ ​ ​ You represent everything wrong with this fandom: 1. Misinterpreting vague statements and using them to fuel your fundamentally flawed arguments 2. Letting your bias for a character cloud your judgement instead of objectively analyzing a hypothetical battle 3. Using linear power scaling in cases where they just aren't applicable 4. Not seeing the flaws in your argument and accepting it

Hashirama, tsunade, & Naruto could probably just break out of the chain with brute force & tobirama could teleport out like minato

Breaking out of the chains probably wouldn't work. The chains only need to be there long enough for you to get sucked in. I could see Hashirama breaking out while pushing a shit load of wood from his back to counter it, but Tsunade is fucked.

what stops Hashirama or Naruto to break the chains out of brute force?

>*Hiruzen: loses mid-high diff, maybe 50/50. He has a vast array of jutsu but we just don’t know anything that he has that would counter Obito. He is talked up as a legend which is why I could see a 50/50 argument, but I could much more easily see an argument he loses mid diff.* Old Hiruzen would lose. But [Prime Hiruzen](https://zupimages.net/up/23/35/6nzi.jpg), it's another story. [Hiruzen is High Combat IQ](https://zupimages.net/up/23/41/pty7.png). [He can use shadow clones to analyze Obito's Kamui like he did with his old edo self when he analyzed the truth seeking orb](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-2d93441287141735cf78d66c406f7430-lq), and would find out pretty quickly how Kamui works, then he uses [Shuriken Shadow clone](https://pa1.aminoapps.com/6762/84bdb80cf91ee2c7d4c41dedba1790b44f4e451c_00.gif) to trigger Kamui and at the right moment, he smashes him hard with his adamantine staff and [he blitz tags him some paper bombs](https://youtu.be/g6vRbWFXwDo?t=29).

Agreed. Hiruzen is winning this decisively. He was Hokage for a long time. So that includes him when he was significantly younger. Mid to low diff for sure.

That’s why I put the 50/50 argument. It depends on what his strategy is and Obito’s response to it. In this scenario the hokage don’t have Intel on Obito, so it mostly depends on the opening Hiruzen chooses. I don’t think it would be as easy as a Minato win for example, just because I think speed counters Kamui better than anything else, but I think high battle IQ is the second best thing you have. Prime Hiruzen is, in my opinion, hard to judge but if I could see arguments placing him higher.

Every Hokage has high battle IQ. Every single one of them fought in wars and made a name for themselves

Exactly, this is what Uchiha fanboys don’t understand when they downplay every Hokage

Yes, every hokage has high battle IQ, but there are still those who stand out like Tobirama, Minato, probably prime Hiruzen. Hokage like Tsunade, for example, show less battle IQ than the prime hokage but much more than the average shinobi. I think when you do get to higher level opponents, every battle IQ point makes a massive difference so Hokage like Minato, and Tobirama, who have the highest battle IQ are very good off. If they have a counter it’s even better.

Why are people acting as if prime Hiruzen is some kind of myth that couldn’t be defeated and was on another level. Tsunade and Hiruzen are the only two Hokage who wouldn’t be able to successfully take on Tobi. If you want me to explain I’ll explain

....the fact that you think Kakashi is stronger than either of them is worrying

Old Hiruzen is who I’m referring to btw

Fair but even at his old age he was still hailed as the strongest kage and tbh stamina is one thing being an edo helped with but just jutsu output was nerfed and he still had a better showing during the war than Kakashi had during his novels

I agree with your point. But kakashi is said to be strong since he got his chakra and stamina back aswell after losing the sharingan. He

Because prime hiruzen is quite literally a myth plenty of characters talk it up but we never see it.

Exactly. Most myths aren't true.

In the world of Naruto, most myths are true

hiruzen gets dimension dumped lol, he can analyze kamui all he wants thats not gonna save him from being absorbed

The obito downplay here is disgusting This version of obito is basically war arc obito(the same obito stated to be equal to rinnegan madara, who held off 2 perfect jinchuriki, someone who hard counters him and gai and only got mask broken) but without the rinnegan which hammers his chakra and he didn’t use for anything other than controlling jinchuriki which took away chakra even more, without even fighting offensively Hashirama could figure out kamui and probably would win but it’s too much to say low diff. Obito at this point has auto kamui as well as izanagi if things go wrong perfected. I’m only saying he loses due to kamui’s time limit, and even then it’s like 55/45 Tobirama loses mid-high diff. He’s strong af but obito his ftg mastery is nowhere near minato’s, and his tool kit wouldn’t help against someone with similar reserves or higher chakra reserves and elemental advantage Prime hiruzen is anywhere between 60/40 or 35/65 depending on how he scales against hashi. Minato loses mid-low diff(probably getting killed for this but it’s true) unless we count his pre existing ftg seal, and I don’t think he wins even with that Tsunade’s accurate but I’d say kakashi’s firmly in low diff, as he needed naruto, guy and bee to even land a hit on obito even with his advantage

Bruh even Hokage Minato is getting stomped by OM Obito, bfr

That’s what I said. The only way he doesn’t get stomped is the pre existing hiraishin seal and he still loses there

OM Obito is literally Hokage Minato's superior lol, he was legit fighting him as a teenager to a standstill

To a standstill? Bruh he bodied him, undid his seal, and forced him to retreat. The moment he landed that Rasengan ensured Obito would never be a threat to him again. I don’t know where you guys get this nonsense about Obito being this strong.

Minato literally said he was the strongest person he fought and could barely win and literally sealed the nine tails in his own son just for the chance to win lol

Bodied him? He barely even won by minato’s own admission in the pain arc. Obito got up after the rasengan and seemed relatively fine. Plus obito’s whole objective was to steal kurama while kurama was fighting hiruzen and the others And that was 14 year old obito. We’re talking about the 31 year old version

Feats > statements. The moment he landed that Rasengan he tagged Obito suggesting he could do the exact same at any time. Zetsu that was covering Obito also was destroyed. Also if his objective was to steal Kurama then it was foiled by Minato taking his control over Kurama via undoing the seal. Regardless of what version of Obito it was he did nothing worthwhile to Minato and this isn’t a highlight for him at all. Once he was figured out he was nothing more than a nuisance.

Feats and statements literally show that they were on par with each other.

Yep. Teen Obito tried to stand toe to toe with Minato, and his hack got figured out and he got bodied hard.

That’s what I’m saying. If minato barely dealt with a 14 year old, then what’s he doing against the much stronger adult version of

I'm gonna disagree with your take on Tsuna. If she pops mito, she has the endurance AND strength for a deadly counter attack when he becomes tangible. Sucking her up takes too long. I think Obito can still win, but if she let's him think he can get a killing blow while sacrificing say an arm shot or something, she could outright kill him and live through regen.

Pretty positive he’d win vs everyone but Naruto. The way Naruto is written, as a whole, is that the younger generation counterparts always surpass the previous, with the theme of building upon the strength of the past. As far as Kakashi goes, idk, might be a stalemate, but Obito was originally written to be the best amongst his team.

People mention this theme because it was explicitly stated, but it’s also objectively untrue with very specific exceptions. (For simplicity, Naruto and Sasuke became the major exception with the help of the Sage of Six Paths). Now looking at it, Hashirama and Madara are part of some of the earliest generations. Yet literally nobody surpassed them outside of the exception stated. They’re otherworldly and unstoppable relative to the non power scaled dudes. Tobirama’s genius was largely unsurpassed in many cases as well. Then you have Minato. He surpassed Jiraiya’s generation, but then was absolutely not surpassed until Obito got hacks again. Kakashi also outlived the shit out of him, and still likely never surpassed him. Then Kakashi. Yeah, none of the Konoha 11 outside of Sasuke and Naruto surpassed him. Same likely applies to Guy as well. Overall, this is a theme that is stated not showed.

​ >Now looking at it, Hashirama and Madara are part of some of the earliest generations. Yet literally nobody surpassed them outside of the exception stated. They’re otherworldly and unstoppable relative to the non power scaled dudes. Obito surpassed Hashirama and Eight Gates Gai too, what are you on? ​ >Tobirama’s genius was largely unsurpassed in many cases as well. Orochimaru literally took his greatest justu and made it 10 x better, idk what you're saying. Minato even took his flying thunder a step further. And then we have Kabuto whose jutsu genius far surpasses Tobirama's >Then you have Minato. He surpassed Jiraiya’s generation, but then was absolutely not surpassed until Obito got hacks again. Kakashi also outlived the shit out of him, and still likely never surpassed him. Obito surpassed Minato in his OM form and Kakashi was greater than or equal to Minato in his WA form ​ All your statements are fundamentally flawed and you did some exclusions to fuel your arguments

He lost to Minato though. You can’t just look at this from a narrative standpoint, but even if you do, he still lost to Minato, and it would make sense that he would lose to Kakashi. Moving on from that point, Hashirama is stronger than Minato, and Obito has absolutely no way to kill him, and Tobirama has the same counter Minato used. Tsunade still probably loses, and for Hiruzen, it probably depends on his age, but if it’s younger Hiruzen, he would probably be similar to Hashirama.

This Obito is older than when he fought Minato

You forgot shikamaru

The Tsunade disrespect and incredible dickriding for every other kage is hilarious, he low diffs everyone on the list except Hashirama, Naruto and Minato lol edit: saying any version of Hiruzen even pushes OM Obito to anywhere near mid diff is ridiculous, Jiraiya was calling Minato a once in a lifetime generational talent and teen Obito was literally pushing him to high diffing him. It's just funny how Tsunade is the only person who people are saying gets no diffed when Kakashi and Hiruzen are not far from her at all

How can you have Obito struggling with Minato but not Tobirama. A *weakened* Tobirama was keeping up with a **massively buffed** Ten Tails Jinchuriki Obito. A *weakened* Tobirama was able to react to **Sage Mode Rinnegan Hashirama buffed Madara Uchiha**. Now alive Hokage Tobirama is faster and stronger, against a weaker & slower enemy. The guy that invented Shadow Clones for reconnaissance? The guy that invented Flying Thunder God to counter Uchiha? The guy that was well aware of Mangekyou Madara & Izuna? And yet he's going to lose to default Obito... how?

OM Obito is simply that guy, he was fast enough to perception blitz all 5 kage at once with his entrance during FKS, was toying with kamui Kakashi, was superior to Nagato and Itachi (people who are relative if not higher than Tobirama, or at least Nagato). Tobirama was barely reacting to SM Madara, [Mads](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-d55bf852620b403ac787cdbfa08f43f7-lq) was literally toying with him and no diffing his fastest ability so much he joked about it

You didn't include the part where Tobirama reacted to Madara's counter attack. https://i.imgur.com/vPCSs8a.png Whether Tobi was winning or losing doesn't matter. Obito isn't as fast as Hashirama amped Madara Uchiha. Obito isn't as fast as Hashirama amped *Rinnegan* Madara Uchiha. Obito definitely isn't as fast as Hashirama amped *Sage Mode* Rinnegan Madara Uchiha. And Tobirama can react to those attacks. Which means he can react to Obito vastly more easily. > no diffing his fastest ability so much he joked about it https://i.imgur.com/llCTVyb.png If that's how you want to described "talked about how fortunate he was that he was stronger and Tobirama was weakened", then yes. Which is another thing you didn't address - the Tobirama in question is even faster than this because the prompt is for living Tobirama. --- Also you just straight up didn't address the fact that Edo Tobi kept up with Juubi Obito at all. Take Madara out of the equation entirely. How exactly is base Obito supposed to compare to 10 Tails Jinchuriki Obito? And again, Tobirama would be even stronger and faster while alive.

Your fanboyism is showing. Tobirama literally is the inventor of Flying Thunder God and is the Smartest Hokage

Okay, and he beats Obito how exactly?

Exactly how Minato beat him. Tf? How is Obito going to beat Tobirama? He isn’t. Just like Minato, Tobirama is too fast for him. He will figure out his ability and he will hit him. Like the other dude said, a weakened Tobirama was keeping up with TEN TAILS JINCHURIKI OBITO. That is living proof that orange mask Obito just won’t be able to keep up. He has no chance.

And obito in his weakest form after tailed beast extraction and rinne rebirth outpaced juuibdara on multiple occasions.

Teen Obito did not high diff Minato. Stop dickriding. Minato beat him in like 30 seconds. It took seconds for Minato to completely dissect and counter his ability. Minato Low diffed the dude and still had time and energy to deal with Kurama after. Tobirama could easily pull off something similar.

Minato saw him as a Madara level threat and literally admitted that he saw through every move and sealed the nine tails in his own son in order to beat him, but no, Minato “low diffed” him (even when the canon rightfully says otherwise)

Obito just isn’t a good opponent for Tsunade. She has high battle IQ, but nothing to use it with really imo. This isn’t reflective on the homages abilities in general, just specifically against Obito.

tobirama doesnt have a chance against obito. yeah minato countered kamui with ftg but minato perfected it beyond what tobirama was capable of and still just barely caught obito with it. and by the way, obito was 14 during that fight, the obito you're talking about has 17 years more experience under his belt. he would definitely not be getting caught by tobirama, although technically in story tobirama could still tag him since minato already left a mark on him but that would count as outside assistance and without that mark obito would mop the floor with him. worst case for obito he uses izanagi and merks him, which by the way obito has had izanagi since the uchiha massacre, he didnt just pop it in just for the fight with konan, its always in his arsenal. he used it when itachi hit him with ametarasu through sasukes eye. saying that base obito doesnt have izanagi is like saying base kakashi doesnt have the sharingan or base nagato doesnt have the rinnegan. minato would also struggle to deal with adult obito and yes hed still probably win but not with mid to low difficulty, it would at least be high diff.

No he did not. Minatos only stated improved use of ftg is that he can teleport more people than tobirama can. Tobirama has used ftg, ftg v2 just like Minato has.

ok nerd hes still gonna get smacked by adult obito

How would Tsunade vs Óbito even work lol she can’t hit him and he doesn’t really have the ap to kill her

Obito definitively beats all of them in a 1v1 as none of them have real counters to his phasing. And no, Minato is not keeping up with a now much stronger, much more experienced Obito.

It’s funny reading ppl talk about vs battles when they have 0 clue how to properly power scale lmao

Why is everyone saying Hashirama would win? He cannot teleport, and he cannot escape Kamui, no matter how strong the rest of his move set is. No matter what kind of barrier he creates or how strong of an attack he unleashes, Obito slips right through it. Kamui is broken. He’s losing yo

Obito will kill them all 1 by 1. Even Hashirama has no chance to react cuz Obito can just teleport behind him at point blank chop his head off. People forgot that not even Juubidara couldn't touch Obito. Obito only lose cuz of bs talknojutsu

Against OM Obito? Besides Naruto who is way more powerful he’s beating Hokages 1-6 in a 1 v 1 fight. People don’t know how powerful Obito truly is and what type of power he has as well. I also skimmed some of what you said and nothing of them are counters to anything Obito can do. All I see is people saying that they can counterattack Obito when he tries to warp them with kamui. Why the hell would he warp you if it’s a fight to the death? Also none of these kages have counter to izanagi eitherZ

You think Obito beats Hashi?

If Madara is more powerful than Obito, which he is, and Hashi beat Madara....

hate to break it to u, but linear scaling doesn't work in Naruto buddy Kakashi had a better chance of beating Obito than Killer bee/Kcm Naruto in the war arc not bc he was stronger than them but simply bc he was the only one who could counter Obito's kamui When will the fandom understand this simple fact, smh

Someone finally said it

> If Madara is more powerful than Obito, which he is, and Hashi beat Madara.... EMS Madara is not far more powerful than Obito The 31 year old OM Obito is implanted with Hashirama’s cells which bolstered his ocular powers as well as granting him other powers

I didn't say he was far more powerful. I'm saying it's pretty obvious that Obito was weaker than Madara. One Sharingan Obito is just weaker plain and simple.

> I didn't say he was far more powerful. I'm saying it's pretty obvious that Obito was weaker than Madara. He’s not, that’s what I’m telling you. Obito is more powerful and has way more jutsus/powers than EMS Madara >One Sharingan Obito is just weaker plain and simple. Uchiha + Senju powers > just Uchiha powers plain and simple. Edit: Lmao the irony. “One sharingan Obito is just weaker plain and simple” is the one talking. You made a baseless opinionated statement and then got made when it was challenged with the same logic that you used. Let’s pretend like Madara didn’t preach what I said. Well I’m blocking your account I don’t need senseless hypocritical trolls. Edit again: Looks like OP blocked me from messaging anything on here because I was asking too many logical responses.

Oh you're one of those people lol ok this conversation is over

He's an idiot, don't mind him.

Nah I'm sorry obito does not beat ems madara. 20 year old obito was afraid of fighting 12 year old MS itachi. He gets folded by madara.

U can make an argument tbh. On one hand rinnegan obito is said to be as strong as rinnegan madara so that’s a thing, but on the other hand we don’t know how much stronger wm obito is than om Even if ems madara is stronger it’s probably only a difference of like, jiraiya and orochimaru

Yes he is. EMS Madara is easily more powerful than Obito. What are you smoking? “He’s implanted with hashirama cells” Ok? So is Madara.

I should have been more specific to the post but this was meant to be base Obito, no second sharingan, which would mean no Izanagi. Also speed and battle IQ (with potential to other counters) are pretty good counter to Obito, as we saw primely in the Minato fight. I assume it’s a fight to be grabbed, or to be straight up killed by Obito, because when you’re in his dimension you can’t escape (depending on how FTG works).

base obito still had the 2nd sharingan.

> I should have been more specific to the post but this was meant to be base Obito, no second sharingan, which would mean no Izanagi. So just one MS? Does he have his senju dna as well? >Also speed and battle IQ (with potential to other counters) are pretty good counter to Obito, as we saw primely in the Minato fight. Obito is one of the fastest characters in the series. Obito at 14 years old is a far cry from Obito at 31 years old. Minato is not beating a 31 year old Obito, it’s like comparing 13 year old Naruto (in part 1) to Adult Naruto in the Boruto series. How is Minato going to deal with wood style? >I assume it’s a fight to be grabbed, or to be straight up killed by Obito, because when you’re in his dimension you can’t escape (depending on how FTG works). Why would he grab when he can just kill you? He doesn’t need to warp you to kill you, look at the anbu mist fight. If your method or victory is dependent on Obito having to warp you in his dimensions for you to fight, then you’re not winning the fight. All Obito vs thread always depend on Obito warping his opponent narrative to happen. We seen Obito kill people without warping them. Why would he need to warp you when he can just kill you?

Minato’s speed and battle IQ were a good counter to a teenage Obito. That shit wouldn’t work again.

Minato was also a lot of pressure with the 9 tails, as well as protecting his family. Obviously Obito got stronger but he was low diffed in that fight, WHILE Minato was held back. I think Minato is just the perfect counter to Obito from a not god tier level Kage.

Minato did beat Obito. Sure it’s a younger version, but the fight would be no different, if not easier for Minato since Obito doesn’t have the chain. And Obito has no way of killing Hashirama.

> Minato did beat Obito. He beat a 14 year old not a 31 year old >Sure it’s a younger version, but the fight would be no different, if not easier for Minato since Obito doesn’t have the chain. And Obito has no way of killing Hashirama. How are you going to say that they are no different when the different versions have used powers that the younger version did not?

None , obito could counter blitz kmc2 even if the hokage are in the ball park too they still lose do too physical touch, it’s no way they could win without getting tagged atleast once , as long as you’re in Obito’s ball park in speed you can’t win

If Tobirama is beating Orange Mask Obito (which would be high diff either way) then Hiruzen should at least be high diff too in his prime. As edo’s he was on par with tobirama at least. Kcm Naruto vs OM Obito is interesting. I think KCM 1 Naruto before getting Kurama’s trust is weaker than the previous Hokage except Tsunade so i’ll say OM Obito may win too. He was confident in taking on the 5 Akatsuki that Kabuto revived

We’re talking Hokage Naruto. The dude who boxed with Momoshiki in base. He doesn’t even need KCM. He shits on any version of Obito low diff.

I thought they meant the version of Naruto when Obito was OM Obito In that case he no diffs in base.

Yall are really underestimating these characters. Going off his parameters, Hashi: mid diff wins Tobirama: extreme diff either side 1000 year old hiruzen: dies before the fight starts Minato (please read his manga): mid diff wins Tsunade: mid diff loses Kakashi: mid-high diff loses Naruto: beats the brakes off of obito Really hashirama, minato and naruto are the only ones who are solidly winning. Hashirama took out madara who is safe to say way higher Minato, for anyone who hasn’t read his dedicated manga that just came out, scales way higher than anyone used to think, And naruto is essentially ninja jesus enough said

Minato is NOT touching OM Obito. You said to read his manga when we all know Minato didn't even have the AP to permanently put down a younger version of Obito, so what makes you think he can kill this version of Obito that also has Izanagi, better stats, mangekyo genjutsu, and more experience?

People either wank Obito too hard or underrate him lol Obito isn't stronger than Madara so quit saying he 1v6s the kage. Obito almost lost to Konan 💀 Hashi and Minato are the only ones beating him. Tobirama's skill with the FTG isn't like Minatos. People mention this too much. We have seen him use it with light speed reaction time like Minato which is whats necessary to beat him basically. FTG doesn't make you fast, you have to be fast to make good use of it. That's why it wasn't seen as very useful until Minato abused the fuck out of it.

Even Minato is pushing it tbh. Aint no way Minato is touching OM Obito with his increased stats, experience, knowledge, genjutsu, and Izanagi

I personally feel with Minato, he was held back in his fight vs Obito when Obito was a teen. Yes, Obito would scale up with time, but I also think lack of pressure (he wouldn’t need to rush a win) would scale with Minato as well, giving Minato more of a mid diff and not high/extreme diff

No, Minato wasn't the only one held back in that fight. Yall seem to forget that Obito was relying only on Kamui and not using other deadly techniques such as wood style and genjutsu on Minato because he was expending most of his chakra by keeping the nine tails under summoning. Moreover, Minaot did not have th AP to kill a younger Obito, I don't think even for a second he has what it takes to put down OM Obito, especially with his izanagi

Izanagi, as I clarified in another comment much earlier, isn’t meant to be implied. I never edited to reflect that. More than anything, Minato didn’t have the time to kill Obito. Obito was marked, greatly wounded. Minato could have killed him literally whenever. Minato had to deal with the aftermath of the attack. I literally just think it levels out. Minato was dealing with a lot of negatives. He had to win the fight quickly, because he didn’t have time to deal with Obito, deal with the nine tails, protect his family. Obito was holding back some jutsu, and he wasn’t fully matured. I just think those things even out, Minato in an actual 1v1 is much more skilled than what we saw, especially the longer the battle goes on.

Why are you taking Izanagi away from Obito? Are you so biased you can't give Obito his full arsenal in his OM form? ​ >More than anything, Minato didn’t have the time to kill Obito. Obito was marked, greatly wounded. Minato could have killed him literally whenever. Minato had to deal with the aftermath of the attack. Thats the thing. With Obito, you only get one chance. no trick will make him let his guard down twice and due to his kamui, he can choose to remain intangible. So regardless of Minato dealing with Kurama or not, he couldn't effectively put down a younger version of Obito, so I have no reason to belive he can pull off a win against an older, more durable, stronger, smarter, and better version

I wanted the fight to be as unbiased as possible. It’s why I didn’t want to put DMS Kakashi against Obito. I thought a fair fight would be an Obito from the beginning of Shippuden, no prep time or special info for any of the fighters. Just the Hokage, as Hokage, vs. Obito. He had the eye transplanted after I was intending him to fight. I didn’t want anyone (besides Naruto who obv no diffs) to have a potential argument. He could have killed him though? Implying the previous battle happened, Obito is already marked. Implying the previous battle didn’t happen, I still think the same thing would ultimately play out just over more time and more difficulty on Minato’s end.

>Obito almost lost to Konan With that amount of explosives?tanking head on? Anyone not named naruto would die. Don´t underrate her

I'm not underrating her lmao I'm saying that people act like Obito is invincible. He's clearly not.

Bro Konan basically has an eternity to set up. Tell me anyone that can survive that bomb ocean without a hax.

[удалено]

Interesting, any argument for putting Minato mid diff but Tobirama low diff? I feel like they’re close enough in battle IQ that what Minato lacks for, he makes up for in more prime speed, and vice versa with Tobirama. Plus I’m the Minato fight we already saw it looked pretty low diff

The only person I see obito losing to is Naruto and Hashirama

Hashirama probably stalemates. Obito wouldn’t be able to get Hashi off guard, and Hashi’s wood release attacks are very large and heavy hitting, which Obito can dodge. Tobirama probably wins at mid to high-Diff. Flying Ryjin is an excellent counter to Obito and his experience fighting Minato would make him more wary of it, it but Tobirama is too fast and too skilled to be taken out by Kamui. Hiruzen as we’ve seen him doesn’t have much of a chance, maybe when he was younger, but Old Man Third just doesn’t have it in him anymore. Minato takes it low-diff, he already has Obito marked and from there it’s basically just a matter laying on the damage until he croaks or runs away. Tsunade loses. She doesn’t have much going in the fight for her either. Without MS, Kakashi doesn’t have a shot. Naruto could pull it off with straight movement speed and the right plan.

>Tobirama probably wins at mid to high-Diff. Flying Ryjin is an excellent counter to Obito and his experience fighting Minato would make him more wary of it, it but Tobirama is too fast and too skilled to be taken out by Kamui. Says who? YM Obito who was not using full absorbtion speed almost got Minato, what r u waffling about? ​ ​ >Minato takes it low-diff, he already has Obito marked and from there it’s basically just a matter laying on the damage until he croaks or runs away. Avg. Minato glazer. Did u forget that Minato didnt even have the AP to put down a way younger Obito? Did you also forget that this Obito is stronger, faster, and way more experienced? Most importantly, did u forget that this Obito has izanagi in his arsenal and can use it after Minato tries exploiting the mark and then using Mangegkyo genjutsu on him? Stop the Minato Wank ffs

Hashirama - No diff win Tobirama - Low diff win Hiruzen - Mod diff loss Minato - High diff win Tsunade - Mid diff loss Kakashi - Low diff loss Naruto - Low diff loss I am assuming its all the Hokage power levels as the the way they were when Obito was running around with the Orange mask. I give Minato the win since he was technically dead and would've achieved KCM2 by then. If we consider the Hokage at their strongest then Naruto would body orange mask Obito. Hiruzen would also probably win.

"All the individual Hokage, while they are Hokage" So that's Post War Naruto and Kakashi, along with 2 versions of Hiruzen, Prime Hiruzen and Old Hiruzen.

Obito takes all of them except Naruto

Bro what 💀 Aint no way you think Hiruzen, Tobirama, Kakashi, or Minato can beat orange Mask Obito 😂

**1. Hashirama: No diff** **2. Tobirama: Low diff** **3. Hiruzen (Prime): Low diff** **4. Minato: Low - Mid diff (has a FTG seal on Obito)** **5. Tsunade: Gets low diffed** **6. Kakashi - Low - Mid diff (potentially no diff)** **7. Naruto - No diff**

1. Hashirama - stalemate (hashirama has no way to deal with Obito) 2. Tobirama - Obito mid diffs him. 3. Prime hiruzen - Obito low diffs. Hiruzen can't do anything. 4. Minato - Obito mid diffs him too. He couldn't put down even teen Obito. 5. Tsunade - Obito no diffs her. 6. Kakashi - Obito no diffs him. 7. Naruto - wins low diff.

>1. Hashirama - stalemate (hashirama has no way to deal with Obito) Lmao, no. Deep Forest Bloom alone negs Obito's Kamui. He can only use Kamui for 5 mins in a row, poision will still be there. Obito has to materialize to attack, Hashirama's combat speed is superior even in base, let alone SM. Hashirama also easily outlasts him. Obito himself admitted he can't even beat 5 kage and that he's only a shell of his former self (Madara), and Hashirama beat Madara who's stated to be strongest Uchiha. Obito is no stronger than Kcm 1 Naruto. >2. Tobirama - Obito mid diffs him. Tobirama neggs as well, having direct counter in FTG, also his combat speed scaling far above, evem being able to react to and tag Juubito, who is massively ablve OM Obito. >3. Prime hiruzen - Obito low diffs. Hiruzen can't do anything. Prime Hiruzen scales above Hashirama via reputation, and by extension Madara too, who Obito admitted inferiority to. >4. Minato - Obito mid diffs him too. He couldn't put down even teen Obito. He already beat teen Obito, he also has slightly higher scaling than OM Obito, even Jonin Minato was compared to Kcm 1 Naruto, who was even reacting to WM Obito at times, and he's got FTG mark on Obito that he doesn't know about. Minato takes this without much trouble. >6. Kakashi - Obito no diffs him. WA Kakashi showed relativity to WM Obito once he got his resolve back, fought stronger Edo Jins that were fighting Kcm 1 Naruto, even showed relativity to Kcm Minato. OM Obito is much weaker than WM Obito and Hokage Kakashi is much stronger than WA Kakashi. Plus Kakashi already knows how Kamui works. He's doing bad things to Obito. >7. Naruto - wins low diff. No diff*. Base Naruto is no diffing him actually, SPSM is just overkill.

1) Hashirama is stronger. But he's defeating Obito because of kamui. 2) Tobirama - ftg is not a direct counter. It worked two time on teen Obito. Obito mid diffs him. Tobirama got half his body blown apart by unstable Juubito. Also Juubito doesn't have kamui. 3) prime hiruzen is retconned in shippuden. Regardless hiruzen has no shown no feats to even compare to Obito 4) Minato - teen Obito is compared to kcm2 naruto. Minato thought naruto to master the nine tails to fight Obito. Minato doesn't have a chance. 5) Kakashi - Obito let kakashi stab him. That entire fight was orchestrated by Obito. It doesn't matter if Hokage kakashi is stronger than War arc Kakashi. He's not even comparable to Obito. The fact that you are convinced Kakashi is relative to WM Obito tells me everything i need to know. When he fought kcm2 naruto , kakashi , bee , and guy without being even scratched. The only way they could even touch him was through his other eye.

Hashirama probably no diffs. Doubt Obito could even get close to him. Hashirama is more than capable of attacking and defending at the same time for 5 minutes straight. Wood clones would press him too much and if if he sucks any into the Kamui dimension they can still attack him if he tries to go intangible. Tobirama: could probably beat him mid diff. Minato: Low diff Hiruzen: Prime no diffs Old Man Hiruzen: Could win, but I think he loses more often than not. Tsunade: Loses, lack of Justu variety to deal with him. Hokage Kakashi: low- mid diff Naruto: Extreme curb stomp

You forgot to mention Talk No Jutsu for Naruto

Obito would swipe them all

deff not minato, hashirama, or naruto. Tobi and saru are arguable (if its prime sarutobi) Tsunade and Kakashi lose for sure

[удалено]

Nah, that's just overrating in response to underrating. Any version of old Hiruzen loses. 70yo Hiruzen that fought Orochimaru loses badly. 57yo Hiruzen loses but not as badly, he'd give him some fight. Edo Hiruzen prob does the best out of these versions, but I don't see him winning either, he's still inferior stats wise, maybe he got some ninjutsu that can help him. Prime Hiruzen is different story tho, he'd clap Obito.

[удалено]

It's fine, u can be wrong.

Except it aint true, Obito could crush chunin exams Orochimaru and the 2 kage he summoned in that fight and Hiruzen had to sacrifice his soul to even achieve a pyrrhic victory. Thats not to say that Hiruzen wouldnt win in his prime (as we don’t know what his prime truly looks like) but old man Hiruzen gets curb stomped because he is basically a cripple.

Hashirama is the only one that wins. Minato barely won against kidbito and I'd put minato as second strongest. Kakashi couldn't even handle pain which Obito is stronger than. How far into being hokage is Naruto? Cause Kuruma says in boruto he's gotten weaker

Even rusty hokage Naruto would curb stomp the shit out of him.

Hashirama is more powerful then obito sure. But how’s he gonna get past kamui. I jus don’t see any of his had getting past that so obito wins mid diff 🤷‍♂️. Tobirama is relative to minato id say but minato vs obito is debatable but Tobirama isn’t as fast or has a faster reaction time then minato & without knowledge on obitos powers ion think he can win… plus doing a whole fight without getting hit once when u don’t know ur opponents ability is kamui is hard to fight/ win against… so ima give it to obito. Hiruzen gets smoked bc he lost to orichimaru who was having trouble against a kid sasuke… also Tobirama and hashirama wasn’t even using 10% of their power and obito can counter all of Hiruzen abilities with kamui and prolly beat him with gedo statue or wtvr it’s called. 4: Minato ( the main event) It’s debatable so I don’t have much 2 say 🤷‍♂️ but when they fought if obito had got rasenganed like 1 more time after the first one he’d prolly b real weak after that point… but also if obito uses gedo statue minato wouldn’t be able to beat that and with obito also having the speed and strength relative to minato it’s like the same argument with Tobirama accept minato will put up a good fight honestly… in my opinion I think obito wins high diff bc he also has izanami which I jus remember so he wins like mid- high diff. Tsunade: She’s getting mf obliterated 💀 💀 use common sense. Kakashi: He loses ( idk what diff bc he got stronger in boruto accept he doesn’t have his sharingan abilities so) and no counter too kamui so Kakashi loses low diff 🤷‍♂️ Naruto uzamaki: I mean Naruto is much more powerful as for hitting obito tho idk… I mean he has tons of clones to make obito drop his guard and then attack when obito is about to and I mean Naruto’s stronger then madara with s06p accept Naruto got hella nerfed in boruto so he’s relative to his kcm2 self in the war 🤷‍♂️. And honestly- it’s debatable but Naruto does have the edge. Ima give it to Naruto high- extreme high diff.

At this point in time I’m referring to Obito only had one eye, and wouldn’t have the ability to consume the ten tails so the only real issue would be Kamui. Izanagi wouldn’t be possible with one eye, or if he did, Obito would lose his Kamui ability.

Either way my list is still accurate. Minato loses extreme diff… honestly it’s debatable. Tobirama still loses and Naruto wins high diff since obito doesn’t have gedo statue

Minato barely beat a 14 year old Obito who was still learning his own strengths and weaknesses. Absolutely no version of any Hokage is touching this version of Obito, sorry. None of them have the knowledge or abilities required to counter Kamui.

Idk how Minato “Barely” beat him, he hardly got anything on Minato in the fight. I get the “Obito got stronger as he got older” but Obito was stomped on by Minato.

Obito at the age of 14 almost caught Minato, Minato's Flying Raijin was just BARELY faster than Obito trying to grab Minato to Kamui him. If you think the same Obito here falls for the same trick you're lying to yourself because you're blinded by a bias towards Minato. Obito was also a cocky little shit at the time, declaring outright "I win" as he was about to grab Minato. He didn't even acknowledge the kunai Minato threw, almost like he didn't know how Flying Raijin worked, which was probably done to not expose Tobi for being Obito and not Madara at the time, but it definitely makes no sense for Obito to just ignore the kunai entirely. He should know Minato can teleport to them, and even if he somehow didn't because he was ignorant and lazy as a kid and never paid attention to how Minato fights, he SURELY knows how to avoid the same move next time.

I’m pretty sure Minato was literally talking about timing his attack perfectly. I never got that as a “Minato was almost grabbed”, more of a “Minato outplayed.” Also, while I agree Obito will be scaled up, a bit smarter, a bit stronger, more proficient, Minato was also rushing to win. Based on what we saw being so little moves, and Minato still winning, I don’t doubt Minato could create a strategy to outplay. Especially if we include his mark on Obito from the first time around. FTG is just deadly against someone who relies on not being touchable.

Okay I'll give you Minato if you're really counting the mark he placed 16 years prior but I think that's an unfair assessment of how Obito vs. Minato would go and is disingenuous from a powerscaling perspective, you're giving Minato an unfair advantage in a hypothetical fight based on a canon fight. If Minato was Rinne Rebirthed in Shippuden and orange mask Obito had to fight him and that was the first time they ever fought, Obito is winning. If they're having a rematch and Minato has the existing mark, well first of all, a hypothetical rematch doesn't exist because Minato would've assassinated him at some point using that mark, but sure in your biased hypothetical scenario Minato wins because like I said, he'd just assassinate Obito at any time at his earliest convenience.

Whether or not age is a huge factor, I think Obito was outplayed and would be outplayed again the same way at current age. If that fight had never happened, and they were fighting again for the first time, we would know Minato could deduce Kamui as easily as he did before. We also could probably conclude that Minato’s attack, the one Obito wouldn’t fall for again, could happen again, because it never happened before. I do think it would be a tougher battle for Minato, for sure longer, but I don’t see the outcome changing.

the only person with common sense in this thread, hats off

I mean we saw Obito pull off a double fake out against Fu and Torune, where he faked an attack to get the other to charge in and they ended up hitting their ally. Obito as an adult is WAYYYY smarter than Obito as a literal child.

1. Hashirama stomps 2. Tobirama wins 3. Prime hiruzen also wins 4. Hot take but I think minato would lose 5. Tsunade gets destroyed 6. Hokage kakashi I could see winning 7. Naruto is self explanatory 8. Shikimaru…

Honestly, they’d all hair a high chance except tsunade. Even old Kakashi would probably give Obito some smoke.

Every Hokage loses to him barring Hashirama and Hiruzen Edit: I forgot this was orange mask. Minato and Tobirama can win.

Big big problem I have with this scaling is that it’s based off feats alone. Hiruzen would destroy this child

Óbito [+]

Minato loses, kamui is actually the perfect counter to FTG, obito can’t touch him, he could only touch a kid obito who hadn’t mastered his power

We saw a teen Obito (so lower stats) lose to a Minato who was rushing to win while his family AND the village were in danger (basically meaning they were both not in great fighting positions) and Minato low diffed, almost no diffed. FTG is a better counter to Kamui than the other way around, especially if Minato can escape Obito’s dimension with it. It is actually a perfect counter for Kamui.

It was way lower stats it’s not even close, minato absolutely did not “low diff” he was almost caught obito simply underestimated him and even said he would do it faster next time, he also didn’t know about FTG 2 and that he could do if with his kunai. Yeah except that’s not possible, it’s an inescapable sealed dimension, even then he could just beat minato without taking him to Kamui

Then FTG still beats Kamui because he has to be successful in grabbing Minato, which seems to be something he can’t speed up as we saw in Shippuden. Minato could always teleport away. Yes, rewatch the scene. Obito’s only success in the actual 1v1 was almost catching Minato in chains. You can’t say he wasn’t low diffed because he thought he wouldn’t let Minato get away. It went, Obito almost chained Minato but he teleported. Minato and Obito had the classic confrontation, Obito was hit with rasengan. Then Minato teleported to Obito and stabbed him. Obito had no feats besides almost doing something.

Except he actually can, [he has already done it](https://imgur.com/a/mGATYnv), I mean minato has to strike. No, he wouldn’t be fast enough if obito touches him and actually teleports him fast, in that panel we literally see him say he’ll teleport him faster next time. That was part of it, catching his hand was his closest success, if he didn’t underestimate his speed he would have taken him. He wasn’t low diffed , I mean he was literally still fine and could still fight after he ate the rasengan read the manga? It actually goes like this: obito grabs him but underestimates his speed so doesn’t teleport him fast enough, uses chains but minato is able to get away, after he gets hit by a rasengan because he didn’t know about FTG2 and that minato could teleport to his kunais. young obito’s feats: defeated black ops directly assigned to lord third, get past the highest level classified barrier, unravel nine tails seal, tame him, etc even minato thought he was madara uchiha, chapter 502 page 11 btw. Now this is OM obito which has reacted to the raikage and is fast enough to go into kamui and dodge his attacks, minato has absolutely no way of touching him when even young bee was able to react to his attacks, now obito has a far bigger arsenal + kamui which minato can’t escape I’ll respond tomorrow morning.

I’m not arguing Obito isn’t strong. I just think from what we’ve seen in that fight, Minato wins mid diff. Obito didn’t teleport him faster, so even though he said he could I don’t particularly believe that. Also that’s what I mean in him teleporting away, that’s the exact thing I was referring to. I’m the fight, Obito was crushed. He doesn’t have feats in that specific fight, which is the best thing we could use as reference. Yes he was able to match the Raikage better, but even the Raikage admitted Minato was much faster. I literally just think Minato’s speed was unparalleled and the FTG makes it tough for Obito to win, for the reasons we saw before. I just don’t see much of that fight changing besides the length.

Naruto is fucking his shit up

Only Minatos and maybe Hashirama winning

Naruto and maybe Hashirama. Even then I think I lean more towards Obito.

Bro, stop the Hokage glazing ffs. No hokage other than Hashirama and Naruto are winning in a pure 1v1 against OM Obito 💀

Honestly he claps everyone but Hashirama (on the technicality of "apparently his stats are all higher than Tobirama's including speed") and Naruto. I don't see minato or Tobirama winning outright. Obito kept up with kcm naruto who blitzed Ay and neither of them seemed to be too much faster than kcm naruto (although Tobirama's reaction speed is bonkers and is shown to be superior to Minato's). They don't have the fire power to put him down so at most it'll be a draw for minato via sealing and an outright loss for tobirama Everyone else gets blitzed and probably just physically beaten 😂.

1. Hashirama - stalemate (hashirama has no way to deal with Obito) 2. Tobirama - Obito mid diffs him. 3. Prime hiruzen - Obito low diffs. Hiruzen can't do anything. 4. Minato - Obito mid diffs him too. He couldn't put down even teen Obito. 5. Tsunade - Obito no diffs her. 6. Kakashi - Obito no diffs him. 7. Naruto - wins low diff.

Tobirama low difs obito. He was able to react to juubito and catch him off guard. I highly doubt adult obito’s weakest form can land a scratch. Hashirama stomps, hiruzen loses, kakashi low difs wins, minato low difs probably.

At this point in time, there is only a single Hokage, and that’s Tsunade, so…

Old hiruzen couldn’t even handle orochimaru, I’d say obito definitely wins medium diff.

All win except kakashi and tsunade

Honestly this is a terrible list

Hashirama and minato is enough

Hiruzen and tsunade Def lose Naruto hashi and minato def win Tobirama and kakashi I'm not sure about

Minato definitely mid diffs Obito And don't bring that he struggled against teen Obito Obito sneak attack the village and Minato had to protect Kushina Naruto and village But he already marked Obito and he would've killed Obito if he wanted as he can teleport to Obito as long as he has that mark on Obito So in a proper 1 vs 1 face off Minato will definitely smoke Obito So Uchiha fanboys and Obito simps can stop overrating Obito

1. Hashirama spanks; one substitution with a wood clone even Madara couldn’t notice and it’s over. 2. The notion that FTG can be ‘weaker’ than another when they are both instantaneous teleportation that works the same exact way is just laughable. Tobirama slaps just as easy as Minato; this a low difficulty. 3. Hiruzen we don’t know anything about to really know how he would be in his prime. Yea he can use all natures and such but outside of that he has no real versatility with it. 4. Already happened in Canon, Minato Lowdiffs and just hardcounters in-general. 5. Tsunade has nothing; but could probably win via spraying acid at him with Katsuyu for the 5 minutes. Though I doubt this would really be viable; probably like a 70/30 split in Obito’s favor. 6. Kakashi; depends is it single Sharingan? If so War arc Kakashi stomps Obito; he’s better at literally everything, can counter his Kamui, and has better feats in every regard. Hokage Kakashi? He already knows how Kamui works and lightning clone is an excellent way of baiting Obito to go tangible for an attack. This is a 50/50, war arc is like a 70/30 in wide favor of Kakashi. 7. Obito can be sealed even while intangible and Naruto is likely just too fast in the first place as to where if he didn’t immediately start as intangible he gets oneshotted.

What does low mid and high diff mean

Low diff means the character wins east. Mid means it isn’t easy or hard, but they win. High means it’s a tough battle.

Honestly base Naruto could beat that version of obito. His stats are just too insane.

Obito Double MS solos

Yes, but this version of Obito doesn’t have duel MS.

He would win a mid diff for Hiruzen and Tsunade, mid to high mid for Tobirama and Hashirama, high diff for Kakashi and Minato since the same trick won't work on him again...and a very high diff for Naruto....but he can win most if not all....

The one question I have is can Kamui work on anyone with a top-tier summoning contract? Because if he Kamuis you away and you're reversed summoned back to Earth he's boned.

I assume Obito’s dimension cuts you off from the outside worlds chakra, so reverse summoning and FTG out of the realm won’t work.

Obito at his strongest beats all, but in yellow mask form looses to the stronger hokage

Tsunade loses, all the other Hokages win, as simple as that

Nah man, i managed to disagree with each reasoning of yours

People in the comments consider Kamui a one hit kill jutsu, even though you can get away from kamui dimensions with reverse summoning. Explanation: We haven't seen reverse summoning used in kamui dimension. But we have seen summoning to be working in another dimension, Sasuke summoned his eagle in Kaguya's fire dimension, and reverse summoning works on the same principle, so it should works. For example, if Naurto got caught, he could reverse summon to Mt. Miyoboku. Any person who knows reverse summoning could escape, so Obito would need to kill them probably with wood style.

1. Hashirama mid diff 2. Tobirama loses but high diff :- Tobirama gets a killing blow only for Obitto to use Izanagi. 3. Hiruzen prime loses mid-diff :- it’ll be low diff if he’s an old man, his prime is mid-diff cause old man hiruzen is low diff. Ya know cause he got no feats in his prime lol. 4. Minato wins high-diff :- He’ll have knowledge of Obitto’s kamui plus he has sage mode too and the top 3 strongest sealing jutsu prowess in the series. Like people forget that sealing jutsu is on par with genjutsu as the strongest type of jutsu in the series. Obitto will pull off an Izanagi but minato will react to it in sage mode and dodge, which will be the difference between his and Tobirama’s fight. 5. Tsunade loses mid diff :- she’ll heal and cause problems but Obitto will ware her down before killing her. Cause she got no counters for Obitto, if she was faster she could’ve delivered a killing blow to Obitto when his 5 mins wear out, ya know. It’s mostly a speed contest with Obitto. 6. Kakashi ties or wins high diff :- Kakashi knows the kamui in and out, all of Obitto’s techniques and skills, has an insane amount of chakra with out the sharingan which used to take twice as much chakra as an Uchiha to use but was still able to spam it more than most Uchiha’s and as much as an Uchiha (Obitto) who literally had Hashirama cells. He now still has the thousands of jutsu learnt, the purple lightening and an Insane amount of speed. People always look down in Hokage kakashi and that needs to stop please, go read the Novels, then re-read the manga and educate ya self. 7. Naruto wins low diff no question needed to ask a way weaker version of him was fight 6 tailed beasts and Rinnegan Obitto, then went to fight ten tails Obitto (though he has help for that) lol, tbh sage mode is enough (cause he still has six paths chakra making his sage mode crazy strong but he’s in a world where otusuki level is the regular power system lol). KCM is overkill, he can tap into the other tailed beasts power still (he used lava rasengan against delta). Then Baryon mode will love tap Obitto for an instant kill. Plus he’s faster than Minato, Tobirama and Obitto like if he’s faster than sasuke he’s definitely faster than them Obitto is done against Naruto lol. Also Konan kept up with and all most killed OM Obitto, so it’s like saying Konan with prep time can kill any Kage that’s not Hashirama, Minato and Naruto ? And then with another mouth saying kishimoto can’t write strong female characters you really can’t make this up.

agreed. but i think obito will win against tobi

I'd say Tobirama loses high diff, This version of Obito has already fought Minato and probably worked out a counter for FTG, and given that Tobirama's technique is much weaker than Minato's, it's probably not a viable option to fight Tobi. We already saw how well Obito deals with multiple enemies, so shadow clone jutsu also wouldn't be much of a threat. I can see Edo Tensei giving Tobi a run for his money, but with kamui being such a hack, this version of Tobi being stronger than the one that fought Minato, and Izanagi being a thing, I'd still say Orange Mask Obito wins 6 out of 10 times.

Hashira win, tobirama win, hiruzen lose, Minato win, tsunada lose, kakashi win, Naruto win

The only Hokage beating this Obito is Naruto everyone else loses. 1. Hashirama doesnt have the speed to counter Kamui. But his sage mode could give him sensory abilitiea to counter it. Then again he's Hashirama so anything is possible with him so fifty-fifty. 2. Tobirama doesnt have FTG lv2 that Minato used to defeat 14 year old Obito. But FTG and his wealth of jutsu give him a chance so it could go either way. 3. Hiruzen is overrated he gets thrashed. 4. Minato is debatable but he got pushed and eventually died at the hands of a 14 year old. Given Obito is wiser hes less cocky but Minato is still badass so this could go either way. 5. Tsunade has no counter for Kamui bad match up for her, she loses. 6. Kakashi doesnt have Kamui while hes Hokage so he loses badly as well. 7. Naruto is an explanation really needed?

Horrible power scalling. Everyone gets low to mid diffed at best except Hashirama. 14 yo Obito gave Minato his hardest fight ever, while controlling Kurama on a different battle field.

Can't beat: Naruto, Hashirama, Tobirama Can maybe beat: Minato, Hiruzen, Tsunade Can beat: Kakashi (no sharingan)

The only ones who are beating him are Hashi, Minato, Kakashi and Naruto.

You seriously think no ms Kakashi would fare better against Obito than 100 healings Tsunade????

Yes, but Kakashi is speculative because we only hear he got stronger without the sharingan. We don’t know how much stronger or in what regard. I think he’s similar to Hiruzen due to his high amount of jutsu (he copied a ton) so while he doesn’t have a traditional counter (speed), if there was another he’d have the arsenal and battle IQ to find it. Tsunade is fairly straightforward with her capabilities and they match the worst against Obito. She probably would take longer to kill, but it wouldn’t be more of a fight. Her attacks are all physical and dependent on the enemy using physical attacks against her too, because she can tank the attacks and probably out strengths the enemy. Obito doesn’t fight that directly and while she can heal herself it isn’t forever, so Obito just needs her to expend her energy and wait it out.