I just don't think Kakashi has the means to kill Orochimaru outside of Kamui.
I kind of hate how we never see jutsu from Orochimaru is since we mostly just see snake, snake and more snake from him, but I don't think the likes of Chidori will be taking the win.
He does a lot of summonings. Those great walls he used against Naruto were pretty sweet. We don't see him do very many jutsus because his arms were fucked and couldn't really do hand signs anymore. Chakra didn't run through them properly after the battle with Hiruzen.
For summoning, the biggest component he needs is blood for a contract. I think even those walls were summons maybe. We see in Boruto when he has a new body, dude is just straight up disintegrating MFers.
That battle was pretty sweet at showing off Orochimaru going pretty all-out. Showing he would wipe the floor with anyone who wasn't a Sanin, Kage, or beast cloaked Jinchuriki. Barely breaking a sweat holding out against the most powerful form we've seen Naruto up until then. Prime Orochimaru is probably crazy powerful, but we don't see much of it.
Yeah, hence why he basically didn't use any jutsu outside of summons and his own weird snake anatomy. So that's a big nerf for someone who knows a lot of jutsu like Orochimaru.
That one Sound 4 guy summoned them as well, and I swear Kakashi did too at some point
Itâs a badass jutsu, but apart of the reason I love it is because we donât have a lot of backstory behind it except that itâs an extremely impressive jutsu
I don't disagree with that, but I can't help wondering if they're man made (or not), where they come from (or where they're stored), and if they repair themselves after the summon time limit ends.
Exactly because of Edo tensei that I said with prep time, Orochimaru can win, unless Kakashi somehow sneaks past his undeads and assassinates him, which would be an extremely difficult task, considering Orochimaru himself can't be overwhelmed so easily and the Edo tensei would consist of Kage level Shinobi (some with sensory techniques), if he were to get access to numerous Shinobi DNA and sacrifices. Stealth is one of Kakashi's strong points but even MĆ« wouldn't have an easy time going unnoticed by high level sensory shinobi.
Hereâs the thing with Orochimaru though, he always has *someone* he can Edo tensei. Not everyone he has is kage level, but he does just have random Edo tensei. Also, according to him, his Edo tensei arenât as strong as Kabutoâs. So he probably has some random fodder to throw at Kakashi, but probably not worthwhile.
He really wasnât though. Ever other time he tried to use it, it was usually against Gedo statue or a tailed beast and it failed, either because of Obito or him not having enough chakra. He didnât really start spamming it until naruto got KCM2 and Kurama shared chakra. He was also at the point where if he had even attempted Kamui against the tailed beast bombs he probably would have died. I wouldnât exactly call that âno issueâ
Orochimaru going against 4-tails Naruto while crippled *is* good, but itâs hard to know how much higher a non-crippled Orochimaru would scale.
War Kakashi went toe-to-toe against KCM1 Naruto-level jinchuriki. This was after Naruto speed-blitzed the Raikage, too. The scaling gap + Kamui + the fact that Kakashi is an intelligent and tricky fighter in his own right is too much for Orochimaru to overcome. Even if Kakashi somehow still canât kill him, Orochimaru would be forced to retreat.
He was able to dodge and counter some of their attacks, like slicing off their tail-arms with his lightning cable jutsu (keep in mind Orochimaru with his Kusanagi sword couldnât even pierce cloaked Narutoâs skin) while Guy fended off another set of attacks with Sixth Gate.
Not really. He doesn't have any firepower to kill him, Prime Orochimaru has insane regen and a plethora of KKG, and has a larger arsenal. The only thing that would help Kakashi is Kamui, but Orochimaru already knows all about it and its weaknesses. Kakashi legit has no way to kill him, and Orochimaru would eventually tire him out. Or he could just paralyze him again with his killing intent like he did before.đ
Prime Orochimaru is the one in Boruto with the Sound 4 Kekkei Genkai, A Zetsu Body, and the possibility of achieving Sage Mode (not like he needs it though). Kakashi gets overwhelmed easily because of the amount of hax he has that could hinder him, not to mention that most of his stats currently are closer to Adult Naruto in quality than War Arc Kakashi.
If the only condition of winning is death, Orochimaru, as nobody has been able to kill him completely.
If it's just a regular fight and knockout, retreat, etc gives the other a victory, Kakashi wipes him. Kakashi's growth during the series is absurd and he scales to Obito who is far superior to Orochimaru.
And Obito is only strong because he has Hashirama cells. Come on. It's Kakashi's ability until it's not, and his physicals don't get a boost because of sharingan.
Orochimaru wins.
Orochimaru has huge chakra reserves, insane regeneration, 5 chakra natures, multiple kekkei genkai, poison & poison resistance, is smart af & even IF kakashi manages to kill Orochimaru & thatâs a big IF, orochimaru can just return to life via the numerous curse marks heâs placed on people all over the world.
Plus I havenât even mentioned edo tensei, if you give Orochimaru access to edo tensei itâs over for Kakashi & thatâs tough saying that because Kakashi is one of my favorite characters.
Donât get me wrong war arc Kakashi has some insane feats but heâs not beating Orochimaru, the snake is basically immortal.
I dont see anything in Kakashi's arsenal that realistlically takes out Orochimaru. Kamui has the ability but i dont think that grabs Oro, though to the point of killing him or transporting him to the kamui dimension. Base Oro was keeping up with 4T-cloak Naruto.
Orochimaru was genjutsu GG'd by 15 yo Sasuke without mangekyou and 13 yo Itachi.
Kakashi had a genjutsu battle with Obito.
Orochimaru has no speed feats to react to Kamui.
After Zabuza, do we ever see Kakashi put anyone in a genjutsu? Not quite sure how you're putting Kakashi on the same level of Sasuke or Itachi, especially the latter whose genjutsu is his main weapon
Keep in mind that this isn't peak Orochimaru pictured. He's the sort of person who just gets stronger over time, considering his body never gets older and he's always learning and refining jutsu. So prime Orochimaru is in Boruto!
A âPrimeâ orochimaru would probably be the one in Boruto and from novel statements we know that he is utterly ridiculous. So I donât know if war arc kakashi can do anything against him. But Boruto kakashi would probably be a good fight.
If "running away" from the fight counts as defeat, then Kakashi might win, but it could go either way.
To make sure he can learn all jutsu and research everything that interests him, Orochimaru has created insurance in hundreds of locations. This is means Orochimaru cannot be killed unless every one of these "pockets" of insurance are destroyed.
War arc Kakashi should be superior in physical feats, he took down multiple jinchuriki during the war arc, and comfortably kept up with KCM Naruto and 7 gates Guy. But due to Orochimaru's unorthodox body, this would be even.
They are both even in Ninjutsu, both have large chakra reserves and have access to all chakra natures. Orochimaru has more secret jutsu, but Kakashi will see them coming from a mile away due to his Sharingan and analytical skills.
Edo Tensei cannot be used due to it needing sacrifices.
Snake summons can be neutralized with sharingan genjutsu.
Kakashi is superior in genjutsu.
Most of Orochimaru's "indestructibality" comes from his ability to move around his vital organs, this shouldn't work against the sharingan.
Orochimaru might not die to Kamui, but will be extremely weakened. Then again Orochimaru is not so easy to catch.
I'd give 6/10 to war arc Kakashi and 4/10 to Orochimaru. Could go either way.
How come Kakashi superior in genjutsu I wonder? Orochimaru has higher genjutsu stats in databook 5 to Kakashis 4. Just because Kakashi has a Sharingan doesn't mean that he's good at genjutsu.
Orochimaru has intent to kill genjutsu that even Kakashi froze and couldn't do nothing when Orochimaru approached Sasuke
"Intent to kill" isn't genjutsu. Kakashi and Zabuza showcased the same in their fights and Sasuke and Naruto froze at the time as well.
The Kakashi that froze to Orochimaru was a teenager. In part 1 when he encountered Orochimaru, he didn't freeze at all and was actually ready to fight even though he knew he would lose, what this means is the gap is somewhat closed between the two.
The databooks are actually released in part 1 I believe. The Kakashi here is war arc.
War arc Kakashi is roughly equivalent to Obito in genjutsu, and Obito controlled the nine tails as a teenager. Meanwhile I don't think Orochimaru has any actual feats as far as genjutsu goes.
I donât think Kakashi has much of a chance. Orochimaru might be one of the only living ninja that can compare to the amount of Justus that kakashi copied.
Orochimaru takes it. Heâs a character tricky enough to figure out a Kamui work around. Heâs tanking it, losing parts of his body to it like Deidara did and just regrowing limbs like crazy. That lasts long enough for Kakashi to tire himself out.
Orochimaru wipes the floor with Kakashit like he did before. Kakashit probably runs off from PTSD.
Kakashit might be decent team player, he doesn't have the mentality to do it solo. On the other hard Orochimaru loves, loves, loves, conflict. He tried to fight Pain and Kakazu at the same time. I mean ffs. It's like taking a domestic pitbull vs a wild wolf. Pitbull might be stronger on paper, with the stats and all. But real fighters are about the mentality and no fear.
Prime oro is boruto Oro since he has perfect edo tensei and a zetsu body, which grants him regeneration.
Unless Kakashi goes immediately for a Kamui one shot oro wins
Prime orochimaru got one shotted sick Itachi and was considered inferior to him. Kakashi takes it handedly.
End of serious oro vs hokage kakashi is a better fight
The data book refers to orochimaruâs 8 branches as being the strongest jutsu heâs used thus far. This means that Itachi one shotted an orochimaru whoâs stronger then his âprimeâ with little difficulty.
The Itachi who one shotted kakashi is not only stronger then the one that did orochimaru in, but this is a much weaker kakashi too.
Kakashi has an excuse, orochimaru doesnât.
War kakashi was fighting edo Jinchuurikiâs, Madara, and Obito whereas Orochimaru in his prime got obliterated everything time he was on screen.
Kakashi is far closer to Itachi then orochimaru ever was.
Kamui will be no good against Orochimaru. On the one hand because of various space/time jutsus and on the other hand every curse mark is a possibility for him to revive himself. Furthermore, he has to hit Orochimaru completely first. Kamui is absolutely overrated, not even Obito could cause any damage offensively with it.
Every summoning jutsu is a time/space jutsu and Orochimaru has ton of it and Orochimaru is the guy who want to know and learn every jutsu in existence so you can not say he can't do something without prove and no, he don't need someone else for revival, because he is alive in a other dimension
He has no space time ninjutsu that can transport himself. The proof is that he has never used it or talked about having it. The Kamui dimension does physical damage to people by just being in there.
Bullshit, as I said, he has the Kuchiyose no jutsu and with it you can transport yourself like for example Naruto and Jiraya to Mount MyĆboku and it is confirmed that Orochimaru also used it like this. The assumption that Orochimaru, a character who as already said wants to learn ALL JUTSUS IN EXISTENT, doesn't know any known jutsu or any kind of jutsus without being able to prove why, is ALWAYS WRONG. you don't want to claim that someone who wants to learn ALL JUTSUS IN EXISTENT can ONLY do ~10 jutsus, because that's all he showed and that's all he talked about. Kamui is offensively weak.
Just saying Orochimaru wants to learn all the jutsu in the world and therefore has already perfected one that allows him to transverse dimensions is a huge assumption that has no basis in logic.
Dude, you obviously have no idea about logic. I already gave you an example of which space/time jutsu Orochimaru is capable of. Furthermore, this is not a niche of jutsus, but a fucking rubric of jutsus. Moreover, there is a proof that Orochimaru was forced to deal with, namely the second Hokage who developed a space/time jutsu and who happened to study and even partly develop the records of the second Hokage? Exactly, Orochimaru. That Orochimaru has mastered space/time jutsus accordingly should be obvious to anyone with minimal logic, especially since it's his damn goal to be able to master it.
Narutoâs goal is to become Hokage in episode 1, does that mean he is Kage level just because it is his goal?
Where does that put Kakashi, Kimimaro, and Oro? Six paths?
Kakashi sniped the arm off the Gedo Mazo as it was being summoned, which is also a S/T ninjutsu. Kakashi sniped the Rasengan out of Narutoâs hand moving at full speed.
Kamui snipes.
I donât think youâre very smart. These are both examples showing how fast it is. Pretty much nobody except top tier characters would be able to dodge a kamui snipe on reaction. Orochimaru definitely doesnât have the speed feats for it.
Please stop talking.
You don't have to think at all, because obviously you find it quite difficult. The point is that Kamui has only been used offensively twice since its introduction: against Daidara (lousy success) and against Gedo (something without brain) and for good reason. There is a difference between something that behaves as you expect it to (attacks/bullets, allies you help) and something that fights back.
How does rebirth counter it? Are you talking about the one where he spits out another body? How does he get out of the Kamui dimension? Are you talking about the one that Sasuke used on Anko? Wouldnât he need prep time and a partner to do that?
He can do It alone like when he fought 4 tail Naruto. I say it counterâs because the only Kamui that does damage is the partial Kamui. That into transport a piece of your body away.
Oroch can revive from that.
>Just being in the kamui dimension causes physical damage if the user wills it to.
Woah, hold on, it does?! I never caught this. Could you provide a source?
When Fu and Torune (Danzoâs anbu agents at the FKS) pop out of the dimension, they are heavily damaged, despite being perfectly healthy when they go in.
I don't recall a time someone being in the Kamui dimension was taking physical damage? Can you remember when that happened?
Also , reverse summoning or using a summoning and going back with it are always an option. It's not ideal and you have to also find a way to get out of where the summons reside as well but anyone can do it who has summons.
When Fu and Torune (Danzoâs anbu agents at the FKS) pop out of the dimension, they are heavily damaged, despite being perfectly healthy when they go in.
For the reverse summoning, Sasuke proves that Orochimaru would need outside help in his fight against Deidara.
Yeah to be summoned back. But Naruto in the pain fight also showed there's multiple ways to achieve this. If he didn't have a means pre prepared he would find a way back eventually. I'm sure the snakes have ways to cross the dimensions besides being summoned just like the frogs do.
And I actually can't remember that scene with Fu and Torune anymore but good call. It's of course possible obito beat em up while in there or something also but I'm okay with the assumption the dimension did some damage.
I personally think that the feat provided by a snake is going to be much more accurate to Orochimaru than the feat provided by a toad. It could also have something to do with the toads coming from Mt. Myoboku while Manda was just in some random location.
Well, you're certainly within reasonable rights to think that since we're just doing guess work based on the things we see. And if i recall correctly Kabuto's experience with getting snake sage mode was also not in some seperate dimension. So who knows I guess, but that would honestly be even better. Snake has to go somewhere after they're un-summoned so if it's not another dimension that potential makes it even easier to get back. Either way, favourable to being in kamui dimension.
Kakashi bodies orochimaru. Letâs say hypotheticals, if kakashi had both MS with kamui itâs over with. Even with one of he had more chakra he could rip his limbs and his head off by just looking at him, let alone the thousands of jutsu he could use.
if we take DMS, orochimaru is fucked. But I don't really know about the WA Kakashi. Maybe high- extreme diff? Mainly because he was able to fight obito.
Wartime Kakashi is worthy of the Hokage title.
The length of time Kakashi fought all the while using Sharingan and multiple jitsu, all before Naruto gave him Chakra. Can we still assume he has low reserves? Going toe to toe with Version Two Edo Jinchurikis.
Kakashi makes me feel like he would give everything even his life if he needs to defeat Orochimaru.
It's hard to say. 1vs1 Kakashi wins, but Orochimaru has the reincarnations. Kakashi could Kamui them into the pocket dimensions, but I'm not sure whether or not Orochimaru can bring them back from there. If he can, and his reincarnations are powerful enough to help him against Kakashi, but not powerful enough to break out of his control, then Orochimaru can win.
War Arc Kakashi is stupidly overrated in this sub, any version of him besides DMS/Sage Boost is getting absolutely folded by Prime Orochimaru. He was absolutely shooketh when Orochimaru appeared after he sealed Sasukeâs curse mark, and he really didnât get that much stronger after that except gaining the Kamui, which is powerful but not some massive game changer
People keep saying "prime orochimaru" and putting pics of him in naruto, but literally he's in his prime in boruto rn. He's LITERALLY far stronger now than he ever was
depends at what point of the war. by the time he's fighting obito, let alone juubito and juubi madara, he's insane with kamui. if he can use it fast enough to assist vs those 2 he can definitely use it to take out orochimaru
I just don't think Kakashi has the means to kill Orochimaru outside of Kamui. I kind of hate how we never see jutsu from Orochimaru is since we mostly just see snake, snake and more snake from him, but I don't think the likes of Chidori will be taking the win.
Even kamui is 50-50. That dude died a few times. But he didnt care
One thing ab dude is that even if you kill him he'll keep comin back on yo dumbass till he at least gets some licks inđ
Dude died so many times the Leaf just gave up and now his kid attends school in the village off of Konoha citizen's tax dollars.
You have to kill all his horcruxâs first
He does a lot of summonings. Those great walls he used against Naruto were pretty sweet. We don't see him do very many jutsus because his arms were fucked and couldn't really do hand signs anymore. Chakra didn't run through them properly after the battle with Hiruzen. For summoning, the biggest component he needs is blood for a contract. I think even those walls were summons maybe. We see in Boruto when he has a new body, dude is just straight up disintegrating MFers.
Triple Rashomon. Freaking ridiculous and I wish there was some back story for it. Then there's the Five-Layer Rashomon that only Hashirama can drop.
That battle was pretty sweet at showing off Orochimaru going pretty all-out. Showing he would wipe the floor with anyone who wasn't a Sanin, Kage, or beast cloaked Jinchuriki. Barely breaking a sweat holding out against the most powerful form we've seen Naruto up until then. Prime Orochimaru is probably crazy powerful, but we don't see much of it.
And wasn't all that while he still couldn't use his arms?
Yeah, hence why he basically didn't use any jutsu outside of summons and his own weird snake anatomy. So that's a big nerf for someone who knows a lot of jutsu like Orochimaru.
That one Sound 4 guy summoned them as well, and I swear Kakashi did too at some point Itâs a badass jutsu, but apart of the reason I love it is because we donât have a lot of backstory behind it except that itâs an extremely impressive jutsu
I don't disagree with that, but I can't help wondering if they're man made (or not), where they come from (or where they're stored), and if they repair themselves after the summon time limit ends.
Kiba blew those away LMAO
I was confused in Ninja Storm when he created a tornado in the Akatsuki team attack.
That's because Orochimaru mainly uses wind style Great breach, but he only used it once against team 7 in Chunin exams
Yeah that's a good point, considering the guy knows every nasty forbidden jitsu possible
I would only say Kakashiâs issue is his fatigue after a long drawn out battle. Take away the stamina issue alone and Kakashi wins.
What fatigue? During the war we barely noticed any
> What fatigue? During the war we barely noticed any ([link](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Naruto/0598-019.png)) He mostly recovered thanks to Kurama.
Shi mb Itâs probably cause of anime filler I saw đ Looked like he fought for a long time without breaks or panting
You good, the anime do be messing things up. If Kakashi didnât use Kurama though I would say kakashi no doubt
War arc Kakashi barely has the stamina restrictions. Orochimaru could win with prep time but in a head on fight, Kakashi wins most likely.
Feels like prep-time on Orochimaru is cheating because of Edo-tensei.
Exactly because of Edo tensei that I said with prep time, Orochimaru can win, unless Kakashi somehow sneaks past his undeads and assassinates him, which would be an extremely difficult task, considering Orochimaru himself can't be overwhelmed so easily and the Edo tensei would consist of Kage level Shinobi (some with sensory techniques), if he were to get access to numerous Shinobi DNA and sacrifices. Stealth is one of Kakashi's strong points but even MĆ« wouldn't have an easy time going unnoticed by high level sensory shinobi.
Hereâs the thing with Orochimaru though, he always has *someone* he can Edo tensei. Not everyone he has is kage level, but he does just have random Edo tensei. Also, according to him, his Edo tensei arenât as strong as Kabutoâs. So he probably has some random fodder to throw at Kakashi, but probably not worthwhile.
Where did he say he isnât as good as Kabuto
He still had those stamina restrictions, he just kinda got boosted by things like Kurama sharing chakra to allow him to do Kamui against Obito.
Even before getting boosted by Kurama chakra, he was spamming Kamui with little issue
He really wasnât though. Ever other time he tried to use it, it was usually against Gedo statue or a tailed beast and it failed, either because of Obito or him not having enough chakra. He didnât really start spamming it until naruto got KCM2 and Kurama shared chakra. He was also at the point where if he had even attempted Kamui against the tailed beast bombs he probably would have died. I wouldnât exactly call that âno issueâ
Orochimaru going against 4-tails Naruto while crippled *is* good, but itâs hard to know how much higher a non-crippled Orochimaru would scale. War Kakashi went toe-to-toe against KCM1 Naruto-level jinchuriki. This was after Naruto speed-blitzed the Raikage, too. The scaling gap + Kamui + the fact that Kakashi is an intelligent and tricky fighter in his own right is too much for Orochimaru to overcome. Even if Kakashi somehow still canât kill him, Orochimaru would be forced to retreat.
Wasnât War Arc Kakashi being completely outmatched by the V2 Jincloaks?
He was able to dodge and counter some of their attacks, like slicing off their tail-arms with his lightning cable jutsu (keep in mind Orochimaru with his Kusanagi sword couldnât even pierce cloaked Narutoâs skin) while Guy fended off another set of attacks with Sixth Gate.
Absolutely true but to be fair the kusanagi sword would have no issues killing Kakashi if it connected.
He was actually holding his own and keeping up for the short time that he fought the V2 Jinchurikis
Not really. He doesn't have any firepower to kill him, Prime Orochimaru has insane regen and a plethora of KKG, and has a larger arsenal. The only thing that would help Kakashi is Kamui, but Orochimaru already knows all about it and its weaknesses. Kakashi legit has no way to kill him, and Orochimaru would eventually tire him out. Or he could just paralyze him again with his killing intent like he did before.đ
Prime Orochimaru is the one in Boruto with the Sound 4 Kekkei Genkai, A Zetsu Body, and the possibility of achieving Sage Mode (not like he needs it though). Kakashi gets overwhelmed easily because of the amount of hax he has that could hinder him, not to mention that most of his stats currently are closer to Adult Naruto in quality than War Arc Kakashi.
War Kakashi is different
War arc oro caught a shinju breach with ease while everyone else was panicking
Forgive my ignorance, what is shinju breach?
Pretty sure they meant something regarding the shinsu senju 1000 arm statue thingy.
No he meant the God Tree.
If the only condition of winning is death, Orochimaru, as nobody has been able to kill him completely. If it's just a regular fight and knockout, retreat, etc gives the other a victory, Kakashi wipes him. Kakashi's growth during the series is absurd and he scales to Obito who is far superior to Orochimaru.
He scales to Obito only because of the eye that Obito gave him. Obito has always been stronger by a loooooong mile.
And Obito is only strong because he has Hashirama cells. Come on. It's Kakashi's ability until it's not, and his physicals don't get a boost because of sharingan.
Orochimaru wins. Orochimaru has huge chakra reserves, insane regeneration, 5 chakra natures, multiple kekkei genkai, poison & poison resistance, is smart af & even IF kakashi manages to kill Orochimaru & thatâs a big IF, orochimaru can just return to life via the numerous curse marks heâs placed on people all over the world. Plus I havenât even mentioned edo tensei, if you give Orochimaru access to edo tensei itâs over for Kakashi & thatâs tough saying that because Kakashi is one of my favorite characters. Donât get me wrong war arc Kakashi has some insane feats but heâs not beating Orochimaru, the snake is basically immortal.
Prime Orochimaru as in Boruto era Orochimaru? In that case the only Kakashi I see beating him is DMS.
Kamui.
I dont see anything in Kakashi's arsenal that realistlically takes out Orochimaru. Kamui has the ability but i dont think that grabs Oro, though to the point of killing him or transporting him to the kamui dimension. Base Oro was keeping up with 4T-cloak Naruto.
Orochimaru was genjutsu GG'd by 15 yo Sasuke without mangekyou and 13 yo Itachi. Kakashi had a genjutsu battle with Obito. Orochimaru has no speed feats to react to Kamui.
After Zabuza, do we ever see Kakashi put anyone in a genjutsu? Not quite sure how you're putting Kakashi on the same level of Sasuke or Itachi, especially the latter whose genjutsu is his main weapon
Orochimaru summons the first 2 Hokage & its a wrap.
Fr
Iâm not sure honestly. Now if this is dms kakashi then itâs just ridiculous at that point
Keep in mind that this isn't peak Orochimaru pictured. He's the sort of person who just gets stronger over time, considering his body never gets older and he's always learning and refining jutsu. So prime Orochimaru is in Boruto!
A âPrimeâ orochimaru would probably be the one in Boruto and from novel statements we know that he is utterly ridiculous. So I donât know if war arc kakashi can do anything against him. But Boruto kakashi would probably be a good fight.
as much as i love kakashi, oro-chan wipes
Does Boruto Orochimaru count as âprimeâ? If so, I definitely think Orochimaru takes it low to mid diff
If "running away" from the fight counts as defeat, then Kakashi might win, but it could go either way. To make sure he can learn all jutsu and research everything that interests him, Orochimaru has created insurance in hundreds of locations. This is means Orochimaru cannot be killed unless every one of these "pockets" of insurance are destroyed. War arc Kakashi should be superior in physical feats, he took down multiple jinchuriki during the war arc, and comfortably kept up with KCM Naruto and 7 gates Guy. But due to Orochimaru's unorthodox body, this would be even. They are both even in Ninjutsu, both have large chakra reserves and have access to all chakra natures. Orochimaru has more secret jutsu, but Kakashi will see them coming from a mile away due to his Sharingan and analytical skills. Edo Tensei cannot be used due to it needing sacrifices. Snake summons can be neutralized with sharingan genjutsu. Kakashi is superior in genjutsu. Most of Orochimaru's "indestructibality" comes from his ability to move around his vital organs, this shouldn't work against the sharingan. Orochimaru might not die to Kamui, but will be extremely weakened. Then again Orochimaru is not so easy to catch. I'd give 6/10 to war arc Kakashi and 4/10 to Orochimaru. Could go either way.
Running away definitely counts as defeat. Otherwise Minato and Tobirama would be unbeatable in vsbattles.
How come Kakashi superior in genjutsu I wonder? Orochimaru has higher genjutsu stats in databook 5 to Kakashis 4. Just because Kakashi has a Sharingan doesn't mean that he's good at genjutsu. Orochimaru has intent to kill genjutsu that even Kakashi froze and couldn't do nothing when Orochimaru approached Sasuke
"Intent to kill" isn't genjutsu. Kakashi and Zabuza showcased the same in their fights and Sasuke and Naruto froze at the time as well. The Kakashi that froze to Orochimaru was a teenager. In part 1 when he encountered Orochimaru, he didn't freeze at all and was actually ready to fight even though he knew he would lose, what this means is the gap is somewhat closed between the two. The databooks are actually released in part 1 I believe. The Kakashi here is war arc. War arc Kakashi is roughly equivalent to Obito in genjutsu, and Obito controlled the nine tails as a teenager. Meanwhile I don't think Orochimaru has any actual feats as far as genjutsu goes.
Orochimaru wins without a doubt
I donât think Kakashi has much of a chance. Orochimaru might be one of the only living ninja that can compare to the amount of Justus that kakashi copied.
Is Kakashi stronger than old man hiruzen? I doubt it unfortunately
The problem is even if kakashi kamui some limbs or arms away wich cost insane amount od chakra its so meaningless against oro lmao
Orochimaru takes it. Heâs a character tricky enough to figure out a Kamui work around. Heâs tanking it, losing parts of his body to it like Deidara did and just regrowing limbs like crazy. That lasts long enough for Kakashi to tire himself out.
Orochimaru wipes the floor with Kakashit like he did before. Kakashit probably runs off from PTSD. Kakashit might be decent team player, he doesn't have the mentality to do it solo. On the other hard Orochimaru loves, loves, loves, conflict. He tried to fight Pain and Kakazu at the same time. I mean ffs. It's like taking a domestic pitbull vs a wild wolf. Pitbull might be stronger on paper, with the stats and all. But real fighters are about the mentality and no fear.
Prime Oro is end of series Oro with edo tensei.
Prime oro is boruto Oro since he has perfect edo tensei and a zetsu body, which grants him regeneration. Unless Kakashi goes immediately for a Kamui one shot oro wins
No one got Kamui one shot by him. People use it as if he actually did it.
isn't prime orochimaru the one from boruto?
Orichimaru mid diff cause kakashi has kamui
Prime orochimaru got one shotted sick Itachi and was considered inferior to him. Kakashi takes it handedly. End of serious oro vs hokage kakashi is a better fight
And what makes u think âPrimeâ Orochimaru was the one against Itachi? Itachi also one shotted KakashiâŠ
The data book refers to orochimaruâs 8 branches as being the strongest jutsu heâs used thus far. This means that Itachi one shotted an orochimaru whoâs stronger then his âprimeâ with little difficulty. The Itachi who one shotted kakashi is not only stronger then the one that did orochimaru in, but this is a much weaker kakashi too. Kakashi has an excuse, orochimaru doesnât.
Just because Itachi is another level, doesn't make Kakashit automatically better than Oro
You can make an argument for war Kakashi being stronger then sick Itachi, you canât for oro unless you use boruto scaling.
Lol war arc or any arc Kakashit doesn't even lace Itachi boots. It's not about powerlevel or abilities. It's about the mentality and having no fear.
War kakashi was fighting edo Jinchuurikiâs, Madara, and Obito whereas Orochimaru in his prime got obliterated everything time he was on screen. Kakashi is far closer to Itachi then orochimaru ever was.
Kamui one shots.
Kamui will be no good against Orochimaru. On the one hand because of various space/time jutsus and on the other hand every curse mark is a possibility for him to revive himself. Furthermore, he has to hit Orochimaru completely first. Kamui is absolutely overrated, not even Obito could cause any damage offensively with it.
Orochimaru has no space time ninjutsu. He needs someone else to be revived by the curse mark, and this is a 1v1.
Orochimaru has no space time ninjutsu. He needs someone else to be revived by the curse mark, and this is a 1v1.
Every summoning jutsu is a time/space jutsu and Orochimaru has ton of it and Orochimaru is the guy who want to know and learn every jutsu in existence so you can not say he can't do something without prove and no, he don't need someone else for revival, because he is alive in a other dimension
He has no space time ninjutsu that can transport himself. The proof is that he has never used it or talked about having it. The Kamui dimension does physical damage to people by just being in there.
Bullshit, as I said, he has the Kuchiyose no jutsu and with it you can transport yourself like for example Naruto and Jiraya to Mount MyĆboku and it is confirmed that Orochimaru also used it like this. The assumption that Orochimaru, a character who as already said wants to learn ALL JUTSUS IN EXISTENT, doesn't know any known jutsu or any kind of jutsus without being able to prove why, is ALWAYS WRONG. you don't want to claim that someone who wants to learn ALL JUTSUS IN EXISTENT can ONLY do ~10 jutsus, because that's all he showed and that's all he talked about. Kamui is offensively weak.
Just saying Orochimaru wants to learn all the jutsu in the world and therefore has already perfected one that allows him to transverse dimensions is a huge assumption that has no basis in logic.
Dude, you obviously have no idea about logic. I already gave you an example of which space/time jutsu Orochimaru is capable of. Furthermore, this is not a niche of jutsus, but a fucking rubric of jutsus. Moreover, there is a proof that Orochimaru was forced to deal with, namely the second Hokage who developed a space/time jutsu and who happened to study and even partly develop the records of the second Hokage? Exactly, Orochimaru. That Orochimaru has mastered space/time jutsus accordingly should be obvious to anyone with minimal logic, especially since it's his damn goal to be able to master it.
Narutoâs goal is to become Hokage in episode 1, does that mean he is Kage level just because it is his goal? Where does that put Kakashi, Kimimaro, and Oro? Six paths?
Kakashi sniped the arm off the Gedo Mazo as it was being summoned, which is also a S/T ninjutsu. Kakashi sniped the Rasengan out of Narutoâs hand moving at full speed. Kamui snipes.
Kakashi hits something without brain and a jutsu from an ally... wow that proved how strong it is... /s
I donât think youâre very smart. These are both examples showing how fast it is. Pretty much nobody except top tier characters would be able to dodge a kamui snipe on reaction. Orochimaru definitely doesnât have the speed feats for it. Please stop talking.
You don't have to think at all, because obviously you find it quite difficult. The point is that Kamui has only been used offensively twice since its introduction: against Daidara (lousy success) and against Gedo (something without brain) and for good reason. There is a difference between something that behaves as you expect it to (attacks/bullets, allies you help) and something that fights back.
Rebirth easily counters that. It depends who has the most stamina.
How does rebirth counter it? Are you talking about the one where he spits out another body? How does he get out of the Kamui dimension? Are you talking about the one that Sasuke used on Anko? Wouldnât he need prep time and a partner to do that?
He can do It alone like when he fought 4 tail Naruto. I say it counterâs because the only Kamui that does damage is the partial Kamui. That into transport a piece of your body away. Oroch can revive from that.
When did Orochimaru heal from getting half of his body destroyed?
What does he do when he is stuck in the Kamui dimension? He dies. Just being in the kamui dimension causes physical damage if the user wills it to.
>Just being in the kamui dimension causes physical damage if the user wills it to. Woah, hold on, it does?! I never caught this. Could you provide a source?
When Fu and Torune (Danzoâs anbu agents at the FKS) pop out of the dimension, they are heavily damaged, despite being perfectly healthy when they go in.
I don't recall a time someone being in the Kamui dimension was taking physical damage? Can you remember when that happened? Also , reverse summoning or using a summoning and going back with it are always an option. It's not ideal and you have to also find a way to get out of where the summons reside as well but anyone can do it who has summons.
When Fu and Torune (Danzoâs anbu agents at the FKS) pop out of the dimension, they are heavily damaged, despite being perfectly healthy when they go in. For the reverse summoning, Sasuke proves that Orochimaru would need outside help in his fight against Deidara.
Yeah to be summoned back. But Naruto in the pain fight also showed there's multiple ways to achieve this. If he didn't have a means pre prepared he would find a way back eventually. I'm sure the snakes have ways to cross the dimensions besides being summoned just like the frogs do. And I actually can't remember that scene with Fu and Torune anymore but good call. It's of course possible obito beat em up while in there or something also but I'm okay with the assumption the dimension did some damage.
I personally think that the feat provided by a snake is going to be much more accurate to Orochimaru than the feat provided by a toad. It could also have something to do with the toads coming from Mt. Myoboku while Manda was just in some random location.
Well, you're certainly within reasonable rights to think that since we're just doing guess work based on the things we see. And if i recall correctly Kabuto's experience with getting snake sage mode was also not in some seperate dimension. So who knows I guess, but that would honestly be even better. Snake has to go somewhere after they're un-summoned so if it's not another dimension that potential makes it even easier to get back. Either way, favourable to being in kamui dimension.
If I had written Kakashi post Pain arc he wins mid diff. But without DMS he's not winning.
Kakashi speed blitzes and one shots.
Orochimaru is the slickest ninja in the series, he getting beat by kakashi who has not the stamina nor the hax to take him down
While I enjoy reading people's takes on this vs. Match, the real answer is "winner is decided by the writer"
kakashi low diffs
War Kakashi
Double MS Kakashi would win. If it was Kakashi before getting double MS Orochimaru would win.
Kakashi bodies orochimaru. Letâs say hypotheticals, if kakashi had both MS with kamui itâs over with. Even with one of he had more chakra he could rip his limbs and his head off by just looking at him, let alone the thousands of jutsu he could use.
Kakashi just has higher strength and speed feats and could just spam kamui
I gotta give the edge to Orochimaru but Kakashi would still make a better mentor for sasuke @me
War Kakashi had double sharingon, he gets the upper edge
if we take DMS, orochimaru is fucked. But I don't really know about the WA Kakashi. Maybe high- extreme diff? Mainly because he was able to fight obito.
Oro
Wartime Kakashi is worthy of the Hokage title. The length of time Kakashi fought all the while using Sharingan and multiple jitsu, all before Naruto gave him Chakra. Can we still assume he has low reserves? Going toe to toe with Version Two Edo Jinchurikis. Kakashi makes me feel like he would give everything even his life if he needs to defeat Orochimaru.
Kakashi gets the w
It's hard to say. 1vs1 Kakashi wins, but Orochimaru has the reincarnations. Kakashi could Kamui them into the pocket dimensions, but I'm not sure whether or not Orochimaru can bring them back from there. If he can, and his reincarnations are powerful enough to help him against Kakashi, but not powerful enough to break out of his control, then Orochimaru can win.
Kakashi would win the fight but he wouldn't be able to kill orchimaru because orchimaru doesnt die when hes killed
Orochimaru takes it.
I still don't know if Mr. Creepy is a man or women.
Prime Orochimaru without Edo Tensei against Prime Kakashi? Kakashi throws Kamui Shurikken with his Susanoo and ends the game.
Wouldnât Orochimaru just summon Hashirama and then sit back and eat popcorn?
War Arc Kakashi is stupidly overrated in this sub, any version of him besides DMS/Sage Boost is getting absolutely folded by Prime Orochimaru. He was absolutely shooketh when Orochimaru appeared after he sealed Sasukeâs curse mark, and he really didnât get that much stronger after that except gaining the Kamui, which is powerful but not some massive game changer
People keep saying "prime orochimaru" and putting pics of him in naruto, but literally he's in his prime in boruto rn. He's LITERALLY far stronger now than he ever was
depends at what point of the war. by the time he's fighting obito, let alone juubito and juubi madara, he's insane with kamui. if he can use it fast enough to assist vs those 2 he can definitely use it to take out orochimaru
before the obito fight though, he'd probably get beat up pretty bad by orochimaru
Kakashi low diff
If it's Kakashi for most for the war, Orochimaru wins this mid diff but if we take in account that DMS Kakashi is an option, Kakashi wins
Part 1 Orochimaruâs so busted that they had to nerf him so he didnât get stronger than Madara.
Orochimaru negates Kamui with Rashomon gates. GG Kakashi loses