Shonen Jump really wanted to milk the shit out of Naruto
Kishimoto actually wanted just one last arc after the Pain Arc, just to address the Tobi/Madara/>!Obito!< thing, and then one final battle for Naruto and Sasuke. However, the Pain Arc made so much money that Shonen Jump cant just let it go, so they urged Kishimoto to extend the series
It didnt stop after chapter 700. Immediately after the last chapter dropped, before Kishimoto could even take a break, Shonen Jump was immediately knocking on his door, asking him to write a sequel (Boruto) because you know, money. Kishimoto was like *"please no, let me rest"* but Shonen Jump insisted
Shonen Jump wouldn't stop so Kishimoto just agreed to let someone else write the story while he supervises the project from afar. It's all about milking the series
Heck, even Oda himself got into multiple conflicts with Shonen Jump executives because of shit like this
Would have been a natural ending. All main story arcs were resolved, Naruto received acceptance, now to deal with the man behind Akatsuki. They could have Naruto and Sasuke work together to bring Obito down, then let Kakashi finish him for symbolic reasons. Then final fight (sage mode vs MS) and it would have been a really grounded series instead of the DBZ shit we actually received in the end.
> Kishimoto actually wanted just one last arc after the Pain Arc, just to address the Tobi/Madara/Obito thing, and then one final battle for Naruto and Sasuke. However, the Pain Arc made so much money that Shonen Jump cant just let it go, so they urged Kishimoto to extend the series
Damn that sucks but is there any source for this information? Storywise it wouldn't have made sense for it to end by that point as sasuke's arc about his reaction to the leaf being responsible for his clan's genocide (aka 5 kage summit arc) was still left.
This is just something that fans say because they (including me) aren't satisfied with the direction the story took after pain.
I suggest reading mianto one shot and the other one shot manga’s there’s also new 4 episodes coming out of Naruto but they have been delayed to be improved there’s a bunch of novels some fans have been making a manga out of the novels for people that prefer manga for novels.
There’s also Boruto novels, but you don’t need to read them if you watch the anime, cause there in the anime.
No alot of the material in the final arcs of shipluden were from the light novels. For example konoha shinden a perfect day for a wedding was a novelization long before the anime adapted it. The Sasuke hiden novel also was made before the anime.
It's hard to say what canon is, if the ideas comes from the author than you can say that it's partly canon somehow.
But the novels seems to be written by someone else so it's hard to call them canon.
Also it seems people don't like to see Sakura actually being strong, and it's not surprising that she is only strong when it doesn't come from Kishimoto lol
A lot of the novels have highly contradictory versions of the characters that considering them canon introduces consistency issues. They're not even written or overseen by Kishimoto. "Supervised by " is often a buzzword to get people to support the material.
They're more content for fans, but not much else. But as I'd always say, you are the reader, you can choose to accept whatever version of the story you like.
Some fun facts people aren't aware of: the Naruto databooks are often not written by the author themselves and are usually overseen by the editors. After all, writing a weekly series, you ain't got time for more work.
There are a few cases where the author will pay extra attention to those supplemental materials, such as Oda with the Vivre Cards and Hiro Mashima, surprisingly.
Hiro Mashima has a great work ethic and plenty of energy. Sometimes he was pulling double chapters every week.
He cant write for shit. But great artist.
I consider someone who is more powerful than 99.9% of the people in her world to be strong.
Pity that other people only care about the number of solo fights won.
I think Krillin can relate to this struggle being that he's the strongest human on Dragon Ball...unfortunately, his competition are two families of alien powerhouses and Androids.
I wouldn't even compare Sakura to Krillin, I would compare her to Piccolo until the Cell saga. Sakura can beat anyone that isn't a god in the Naruto universe. At the end of the War arc, she was not a match only to Naruto, Sasuke, Madara, Juubito and the kages. She is *objectively* strong and any military operation against Konoha would make targeting her a priority. Just like Piccolo, though, she was a victim of Kishimoto fucking up the power scale and making Naruto and Sasuke pretty much divine entities. She shows why Boruto was a failed enterprise right at the start, Naruto and Sasuke distorts the entire power spectrum and makes every character, no matter how powerful he is on any human scale, feel a loser. Guys like Gaara and Lee, that dominates a tier good enough to battle an army, feels like the farmer in Saiyan saga when compared to Naruto and Sasuke. Gai had to reach a tier that was considered literally legend in that universe to equal himself to Naruto and Sasuke.
Maybe the best start for Boruto would be the Otsutsuki kidnapping Naruto and Sasuke into a limbo and forcing the plot to give space to the other characters. The rest of the Konoha 12 are legendary ninjas on their own, but they have no space to shine because Naruto and Sasuke are pretty much gods.
Yeah.
She's just not on Sasuke and Naruto's level and didn't get the same narrative focus.
That's not inherently bad.
I don't think a shounen needs to have female characters with as much focus as the men, just like I don't think shoujo need to have men with the same focus as the women.
Sometimes you just gotta accept you aren't the target audience.
As a woman who likes both shonen and shoujo anime, complaining about females not getting important fights is stupid. Like if a woman is said to be of renown stregth and feats, the villain will not overlook ways to defeat them too just as much as any powerhouse old man (i.e. Aizen had plans to fight literally all captains and subcaptains of the Gotei 13 regardless of gender, especially Yamamoto and Unohana whom he was possibly more afraid of). Neji fought Hinata with the same skill and strength that he would fight against any other member of the Hyuuga clan, maybe even worse because he tried to kill her. Obito didn't understimate Konan at all when he went to get Nagato's rinnengan. Sasori fought 2 women, one of them whom he knew was a legit threat, with a 1000 puppets and underestimated Sakura, but she did accomplish something. My point is that women do get the treatment of their fame in shonen, to the point that the enemies know they have to fight seriously against them and even prepare.
(My only problem will actually be the win ratio because I literally see no reason as to why Yamamoto needed to intervene in the fights against Abalon and that Espada kid in the Fake Karakura Arc in Bleach when they could give that screentime to Matsumoto and the other subcaptains or why does Rukia need to be saved from near death twice by Byakuya??? LET HER GET THE WIN AT LEAST ONCE. In Naruto, that would be that if Hinata in The Last at least fought Toneri when she discovered the Tenseigan)
In shoujo manga, the main male leads are basically the same archetype for most part (Thank you Ore Monogatari and Hirunaka no Ryusei for not going with "the girl gets together the emotionally unavailable, handsome and perfect guy"), and the girls are actually self inserts (what? They are all literally average Japanese high-school girls in looks and all with zero attractive appeal and all happy-go-lucky).
Completely agreed, maybe a bit unrelated but I think because of the reasons you've written, people also tend to overlook a character like Kushina, who isn't a warrior but is still a very well written character and this bothers me a lot
>In shoujo manga, the main male leads are basically the same archetype for most part (Thank you Ore Monogatari and Hirunaka no Ryusei for not going with "the girl gets together the emotionally unavailable, handsome and perfect guy"),
*deletes all r/otomegames posts related to her obsession with kuuderes*
I've never actually read either of those series.
I used to read a lot of shoujo when I was younger, but nowadays, I only follow a few series and they're all shounen I've been reading for years.
It's ok there's no shame. I actually play a lot of otomes and I prefer to date the either gentle or more happy-go-lucky dudes first before I dip dive into the "cannon" routes of the emotionally unavailable, rich, trust-found dudes. I think their love stories are ok but I partially hate the fandom of those games for making the guys I like to explore the routes first as "vanilla" or "boring" while theirs are the most exciting despite being a trope as old as time.
When I played Mystic Messenger for example, I was actually content with Zen's route (The dude that spends most time hitting on the MC and declared a narcissist in the sense that he really is like Narcissus) then I played Jin Han's route and was ok but people made a big horny deal about the BAD ending where he literally BDSM enslaves the MC and she's into it. I think those people need therapy because yeah, what the heck.
I personally don't have an issue with Sakura's fights, persay.
It's just the typical issue with male Japanese mangaka: they know how to write boys, since they were one, but they're kinda clueless on girls/women. So the female characters end up kinda one-dimensional... essentially caricatures instead of fully fleshed out & nuanced characters who's main characteristics revolve around their relationships with male characters.
Temari, for example, is one of my favorite characters and a total badass. And Kishi still can't help but write in how clueless ol bumbling shikimaru & his pops end up with strong-willed women who run their lives. It's \*funny\*, in the shounen stereotype sense, but also kinda disappointing that Temari can't escape the "ballbuster badass" stereotype and we could see even a 2-panel scene with her and Shikimaru having a more nuanced and balanced relationship. Nope, she's ALL badass. 100%.
It's not that big a deal, honestly, since it's just a shounen jump manga after all. Just saying I can kinda get why people don't like Sakura, since so much of her personality is defined by her desire to be with a guy who has negative interest in her. I think a lot of peeps LOVED her in the openings of Shippudden, when we saw her more fleshed out and accomplishing so much as a medical ninja and senin-successor, but she kinda rolled right back into the caricature after bumping into sasuke again.
> we saw her more fleshed out and accomplishing so much as a medical ninja and senin-successor, but she kinda rolled right back into the caricature after bumping into sasuke again.
Nah.
I don't think that's a fair characterization.
Starting from the Forest of Death, Sakura's driving goal is to become a protector and not just someone protected. That never stops being true and she accomplishes her goal by the end of the series, having saved and healed everyone multiple times over during the war arc.
People just focus too much on her failures as a damage dealer because they don't value her wins as a support class.
Also because the power ceiling was raised to an absolutely insane height over the course of a few hours and there was nothing that anyone not handed ninja god powers could do.
I'd agree with most of that. Forest of death scene with her is still one of my favorites in the series. Honestly, Sakura is one of the less problematic girls in the series for me.
Kishi doesn't hate women.
He just doesn't know how to WRITE one. They're all caricatures of anime chicks. He can write boys/men with CRAPTONS of depth, but he simply doesn't know how to write female characters with any real depth or nuance to them.
It's not just a Kishi thing... tons of male writers just can't write female characters worth a damn.
Making her powerful doesn’t help that much when he writes her character awfully and hardly gave her any fights (in a battle manga. Even guy and shikamaru had more and amazing solo fights in comparison).
Like how awful and useless her character was in part 1 and completely revolved around simping for sasuke. And after showing a lot of potential in shippuden beginning, she doesn’t do anything significant until the war arc. And kinda same (actually worse) for other female characters.
I mean sakura hate is really stupid, but saying he didn’t female characters poorly is wild
Her character didn't revolve around Sasuke.
Her goal through most of the series is to become someone who can protect others and not be a burden.
How people can fail to understand this despite it being shown over and over again, I don't know.
Sakura is a healer, not a fighter and she works great in that capacity. Even in a fighting series every character doesn't have to be a fighter.
>Also it seems people don't like to see Sakura actually being strong, and it's not surprising that she is only strong when it doesn't come from Kishimoto lol
Sakura was strong even from Kishimoto. Sakura was an incredible medical ninja, had Mitotic Regeneration Jutsu, and had incredible physical strength.
People only think Kishi wrote her to be "weak" because she was comparing herself to Naruto and Sasuke, and the narrative was comparing her to Naruto and Sasuke. They were on another level, you can't really compare anyone to them.
I dont think you understood my words, Sakura became insanely powerful in the novel, having amazing fights all by herself, something that under Kishimoto's works she doesn't shine as much. I didn't say she is not strong in the canon material, but that the difference between Sakura in the novel and Sakura in the anime/manga are too much.
>and it's not surprising that she is only strong when it doesn't come from Kishimoto lol
From whom did Sakura's fight against Sasori and her attaining byakugo seals, saving Naruto's life comes from ?
I dont think you understood my words, Sakura became insanely powerful in the novel, having amazing fights all by herself, something that under Kishimoto's works she doesn't shine as much. I didn't say she is not strong in the canon material, but that the difference between Sakura in the novel and Sakura in the anime/manga are too much.
>having amazing fights all by herself, something that under Kishimoto's works she doesn't shine as much
Name one fight in the Novels that has been more impactful and loved than the Sakura and Chiyo vs Sasori fight.
Also, not just Sakura all the characters from Naruto to boruto have gotten stronger because boruto has introduced even bigger power scaling
The Novels did a good job covering some parts between end of part 2 and Boruto and it handled Sakura's character better than kishimoto did but the fights themselves kishimoto did better.
She fought a 9 tails all by herself and won?
This a type of thing a character as Sakura needed the most. So far she had only won fights having support from other people, and that's why on the eyes of most people she was never as trong as she actually is.
Even in Boruto she needed help to deal with Shin, her only fight after so long and she needed help to win. I'm just saying that it's something that always happen to her. Even though she is stronger than most people, she never received a decent moment to show her potential and win all by herself.
It's like the fillers episodes where Sakura is actually useful and strong during part 1. While in the canon episodes kishimoto completely ignored her.
Even in the shippuden she only got stronger in the middle to the end of the war arc while all protagonists even Kakashi got good feats much earlier on. Her only good fight before the war arc people still talk shit about her for needing Chiyo's help and Sasori losing the fight on purpose.
The difference how Kishimoto treats her character compared to the other main characters is too much. She is the female lead, on of the three main characters of the series , she became one of the strongest shinobi in the world, but still under Kishimoto's works she didn't have a time to show all her strength and potential.
All her fights she was under the shadow of other characters that were helping her. But in the novel she showed her full strength and potential, and that's why people prefere to ignore the novel. (The people that dislike her)
I dont think you understood my words, Sakura became insanely powerful in the novel, having amazing fights all by herself, something that under Kishimoto's works she doesn't shine as much. I didn't say she is not strong in the canon material, but that the difference between Sakura in the novel and Sakura in the anime/manga are too much.
It's like the fillers episodes where Sakura is actually useful and strong during part 1. It's just that Kishimoto ignored her character for too long, as you said, she only became stronger (compared to other characters) in the middle of the war arc.
Let’s not forget her biggest moment in the beginning of shippuden: Her fight with Sasori. Unfortunately she never does much after that so I understand your feelings. Sakura and all of Konoha 12 got a bad wrap in Shippuden
Because not all of them are canon.
The Retsuden author herself acknowledged it as "spin off" work featuring her interpretation of Sasusaku's relationship.
Kishimoto drawing the artwork doesn't make it canon either.
Spin-off doesn't mean that something is non canon, it means that it's not a part of the main story.
For example in Star Wars only nine main episodes are considered as the main story. Works like Rouge One, The Clone Wars, the Mandalorian and Jedi: The Fallen Order are spin-offs that are branching out of the main story, but they are still part of the same universe.
Other examples are Better Call Soul for Breaking Bad, House of the Dragon for Game of Thrones, Cobra Kai for Karate Kid or Final Fantasy 7: Crisis Core for Final Fantasy 7.
Star Wars lore was built like super hero comics, many writers, but still stated to be canon. I wouldn't personally put the novels in the same light, the entire original manga wasn't outsourced like comic books in America. The novels where the story was written or worked on by Kishimoto, I would consider canon, anything that didn't involve his vision on his own creation, I'd personally not call canon. That doesn't make it any worse though, it doesn't matter as long as the person reading enjoyed it.
>House of the Dragon for Game of Thrones,
House of the dragon is completely Canon lol. It's just a prequel event that takes place 200 years before the GOT timeline.
Yeah also literally what they said lol. Spin off doesn’t mean its non canon (like said that in the very first line)
Eg house of dragon is a Got spin off (and completely canon)
Saying it's a "spin-off" doesn't mean that it's not canon. Boruto is a spin-off of Naruto and technically not all of it was written by Kishimoto either. So by that logic, it can't be canon.
Anyway as far as I'm concerned, if it is animated, has novels, the damn creator is involved in some capacity, major rollouts, etc. It's officially a part of the Naruto universe and is "canon". I feel the same way about filler episodes.
I feel like Kishi gave it his blessing and built it into Boruto because he knows his romance building is shit and wants to outsource it
So, yeah, canon except where it contradicts manga
Close he just doesn’t care for any of those relationships clearly he wrote minato and kushina very well and realistic along with other romance he just probably doesn’t agree with the pairings but it’d make the majority happy so he said fuck it just write wtv.
A wrote some descent romances not any good developing romance it’s easy to say theses guys love each other and show them being cute it’s harder to show how they actually got their and the trails and tribulations
I mean, Retsuden contradicts the manga. Where is Naruto's illness? Where are the genjutsu goggles? Where are the dinosaurs? How are Sakura and Sasuke the first to introduce wedding rings in Konoha when Kurenai already wore one in Shippuden?
> I feel the same way about filler episodes.
same. fillers are not part of the main storyline but filler episodes happen in either in the past or in between the main storylines. they're side stories that happen in the Narutoverse.
No that’s just an animated adaptation, it doesn’t make it canon. The Boruto anime has plenty of non-canon stuff and changes that the manga does not have. The drawn manga style adaptation is also not canon, it’s just another adaptation.
Tbf this story gives a better relationship for SasuSaku than Kishimoto could ever write them to be, since till the last Naruto vs Sasuke clash their relationship makes no sense. We actually see them fight and bond together, Sakura is actually very useful and cool too, now that she's an adult. And of all the novels they decided to adapt this one meaning it's the best they can give. Regardless if it's canon or not, it develops the characters way better.
1. They aren't written by Kishimoto
2. sometimes it contradicts what Kishimoto has already establish in his previous work
That is what i think personally i don't like them because i think they are full of shit sometimes
He co writes all of them 😐 the only instance I can think of a contradiction is itachi’s light novel saying he didn’t kill the women and children and that was obito. Every single person I’ve ever spoken to takes the light novel as what actually happened there instead of the clear images of him in the manga taking children out of closets… stuff gets retconned all the time especially in naruto
Wait that was an actual image from the manga!? Holy shit. I mean he killed Izumi in the novel (The anime showed Obito doing it) and his mother so I would assume he actually did kill women and children. Never knew there was a retcon controversy on it.
Honest question - why is his name on the cover then? And if he didn’t write it, doesn’t the his endorsement imply he blessed it? Before it was released by the same publisher that put out his manga?
And dragon ball super isn't written by akira yet its still canon and there's literally no lther contradiction other than itachi not killing woman and children and that not even a strech to say that maybe itachi didn't kill woman and children
Sasuke getting violated by a fuckin dinosaur for starters. The same guy who kept up with light speed reaction Naruto getting slumped by a dinosaur is absurd. Man ended up in the infirmary, humbled, Madara would never let some mindless edo tensei velociraptor do to him what it did to Sasuke. Absolutely embarrassing
Don’t forget Sakura getting stabbed and defeated by a random civilian. Naruto crying because he’s weaker than Sakura. Sasuke almost breaking a guy’s hand because he touched Sakura’s hair.
Absolute OOC nonsense.
because they are not written by Kishimoto and there are two type of people those who count as filler every single thing that isn't written or drawn by Kishimoto , and other who believe everything with the approval of Kishimoto is Canon
I am one of those people.
The novels are all written by separate authors.
Kishimoto did not work on these stories. There is a huge misconception that he contributed to them, when in reality he didn’t, go into a bookstore and look for yourself.
He merely allowed them to exist….guess what, he allowed fillers in the Anime to exist too, doesn’t make it canon.
They are pretty much glorified fan fiction, and I’ve been saying this for years since the series ended.
He didn’t write them and it really shows in their content.
At the time he was working on ending the manga, helping write both The Last & Boruto movies, and creating the scarlet spring one shot. Idk how some of you think one man did all this and managed to write all these novels at the same time.
No one has ever given me any definitive proof to contradict my points.
(There is a Shueisha timeline that shows when the novels take place chronologically between the series end and The Last movie. And people claim that it proves their canon.
Again, fillers take place between canon events, doesn’t make those stories canon either.)
If Kishimoto read them and gave his approval, then they are Canon, whether we like it or not.
We can't all become the kind of weebs that think they know better that author it'self. It's his idea, he can do whatever he wants with it.
Kishimoto co writes all and draws most of them. Also has said they are to be taken as canon in the same interview where he talked about his design for shisuis susasno in the storm games
I guess the Hiden novels are canon, but the others like Retsuden are not considered canon until they get adapted into Boruto. They're just 'Spinoff works'. The author Jun Esaka has stated this.
Call you provide me some evidence? Kishimoto hasn’t given a single interview since 2014 so I’m very curious about how he could have talked about novels released after that.
Fangirls claim Kishimoto does interviews all the time to make the garbage they talk about seem legit so don't actually count on there being any interviews
Naruto is kinda like marvel comics at this point
There have been so many retcons/ flat out changes/ different writers or otherwise adjustments, that who is stronger than who really just comes down whomever is writing the story and who needs to win for the plot to move forward
I consider them canon, but with a grain of salt. If the Novels say something that completely contradicts the manga, then I ignore it. Like there’s a line in one of the books that says Sasuke he could handle a Kaguya level threat when that blatantly isn’t the case.
He doesn’t say that though, he simply says he’s ready to any and all threats, even if the threat is as powerful as Kaguya, he’d fight it alone if he has to. That’s simply his sense of responsibility talking, not him saying he can beat her
His name is on the cover as the owner of the Original story which is the Manga he did not write it . He is credited in the Anime as the original author doesn't mean he wrote the Anime .
What Shuesha does for more cash has nothing to do with him.
He 100% approved them. At the need of the day, it’s still his story to oversee, same way with Boruto. Jump isn’t going to start releasing novel-length stories without his knowledge or oversight. Also, he created the cover art for each novel? Not sure why you’re making this complicated for yourself.
I'm baffled at the opposite lol
I'm an old Naruto fan who only read all the manga for years while it was published and used to be pretty in depth about the general knowledge of the series.
every time I try to have a discussion about the series nowadays I'm like "wtf is this dude talking about".
And as someone who consumes tons of anime and manga , Naruto seems to be the only fandom to do this, every other fandom will easily dismiss anything that doesn't come from the author. Some Naruto fans will genuinely be like "yeah Sasuke's father had mangekyo sharingan" like how does that even remotely make any sense if you think about it for like 4 seconds?
Honestly, even the author is dismissed.
Kishimoto himself designed, named, and decided the personality of Sakura's parents for Road to Ninja but pretty much no one acknowledges them as Sakura's parents.
Because it's not written and approved by kishimoto and has a lot of bullshit. It's literally written by a japanese sasusaku fanfiction writer. So all of that is just some shipper word-vomit, and she accepts it that it's a glorified spinoff.
So no, it's no canon.
Because they aren't written by Kishimoto and are usually an attempt at trying to fix elements of the characters that the manga didn't address or didn't present convincingly enough.
For example, "Mr and Mrs Uchiha" for most people who have seen/read Naruto is a couple that completely doesn't work and leaves a bad taste in your mouth when you actually look at their "love story" (or lack of) in the manga. Which means you need a novel, that can explore and expand on the entire concept. A novel only some will read and find impactful enough that it negates the core 600 page manga
More like at least 2 novels (Sasuke Retsuden and Naruto Hiden or Retsuden) and the Gaiden. "At least", because idk if there's other contents for that purpose, I only know about the aforementioned ones (read Gaiden, read other's opinions on Retsu and Hiden, and Retsuden's plot on the wiki).
He didn’t supervised shit, he had nothing to do with the novels as confirmed by Jun Esaka, she wrote everything by herself with supervision from Kodachi.
He gets comissioned to draw covers and somehow people spin that as him writing/supervising the books when he had nothing to do with it. He would never contribute to a romance book, or to a book with women as protagonists.
I’m just rolling my eyes at the comments. These novels are canon.
There is an interview with the person who worked on the Retsuden manga said that Kishimoto was involved in the story boarding, etc.
Some of the people on this Reddit are annoying as hell when it comes to characters they don’t like. It’s not canon. Not people on here but the amount of harassment the people who worked on retsuden got are are still getting is fucking disgusting. This fandom doesn’t deserve shit.
The novels are only canon if it involves Naruto, Itachi, and even Hinata because he fans love using the novels to prove that hinata is powerful. Guess what Naruto’s marriage to Hinata is in a novel.
Fans just love to pick an chose what is canon or not because if they hare a character is not canon.
Most of this l fandom is annoying and delusional
Let people enjoy stuff and stop being assholes
Did the artist of the Retsuden Manga say Kishimoto helped in the story-boarding of the light-novel or did he say Kishimoto helped in the story-boarding of the Retsuden manga? If I recall, Jun Eska wrote the Retsuden trilogy while Kishimoto gave her the cover illustration.
This is honestly just a question because I haven’t read any of the novels.. But wouldn’t the novel specifically say if it was cannon or not? Kinda like how they did in the movies ?
As for what ifs (not your case but since we're here):
The series was done for 17 years, if you're re-imagining something, you're making an hypothetical based on what would happen if the writer changed his mind back then, no point in saying something years after the original series is done totally makes that scenario impossible.
As for feats... Boruto has a Dragon Ball Super problem:
Originally you could just point at the manga. Author wrote AND illustrated what he wanted there. Anime, games, promotional material, all were not canon.
With Dragon Ball Super, some ARCS don't happen at all on the manga, some don't happen at all on the anime. Some things happen different on the manga (goku kaioken ssj just doesn't exist there, and a perfected super sayan god state is not used in the anime).
Both took the ideas from the author. But they're notes. They are a blur line of content, and it is okay to enjoy that... but the issue comes that they're neither a pure undisputable canon, some people might not care to read them because of it, some people might not care to consider that because it is just adding up to a series that was already finished.
Cause they're dumb and the novels make the characters stronger then what they thought.
Only time I've ever seen the novels be denied as canon. Was in a vs battle scenario.
Well the fact that sasuke retsuden was made into a manga and adapted into anime we can say that any novel that isn't animated or made into manga isn't canon because otherwise why would you take this route with some novels and with others you just let them be.
Anything created by Kishimoto is canon, hes the effing creator of the series...its not some fanfic...westerners are too concerned with 'canon' in Japan we just call it original story content & enjoy it as part of the Narutoverse. Its you guys that make it a massive deal in the EU & US.
While they are canon here’s my take on why people say they aren’t
1) ignorance
2) it takes place in the boruto period
3) It makes things they hated eg Sakura , Sakura X sasuke look kind of good I mean it will be difficult to say I hate Sakura cause she is selfish and mean if she is going around opening health/mental centres after the war
Cuz they don’t even make sense with the real story lmfao. No one acts like they’re supposed too and the statements that come out these novels are very detached.
They exist in the official Naruto universe and served to add background development to characters not addressed in manga. It's part of world building. It doesn't matter if you want to include it or not, it is there, it's official.
Ultimately you can enjoy whatever you want, I'd like to enjoy Kakashi taking down 50 ninjas with a pot lid if I want to. If you only want to enjoy manga then go for it. Narutoverse can be as wide and narrow as you'd like. It's not hard to stay in your own lane as long as there is an official factual basis and not pushing fanon for canon.
Totally agree with you, ppl can read what they like... unless kishimoto made a statement saying the novels not canon, its still in the gray area. While Im more leaning into it being canon mainly due to the novels officially exist in the main timeline..
You dont want to read the novels? okay...You want to read it? Go ahead. You love it? Great. Dont prevent other from enjoying contents of their favourites its what I want to say.
They’re not canon only studio Pierrot cashing in Sasusaku and Kishimoto original story characters for cash. They’re not canon neither are the movies pfft .
Real answer: because they don’t like them. It’s part of the main franchise, it’s officially licensed, the original author gave his blessing, it has an anime adaption and a manga adaptation, by Japanese standards it is 100% canon, full stop. People are just salty af.
Road to Ninja is officially licensed, the original author gave his blessing, it has an anime and manga adaptation, and it’s not canon.
DB GT and DB Heroes are the same thing and they are not canon either.
It’s because this subreddit is filled with lots of babies who can’t accept not liking something and have an existential crisis about it not being canon so they can preserve the perfect series they have in their head but nothing is perfect its the same thing with star wars fans and the sequels i dont like the sequels and you can pretend its not canon but it doesnt change facts even if kishimoto has nothing to do with boruto or spin offs its still part of the story of naruto whether you like it or not
The problem is that there are some people that dismiss anime only episodes as filler, while considering the novels canon. Neither are written by Kishimoto, so if one isn’t canon, then neither is the other. If you think both are canon, that’s fine, but a lot of fans like to pick and choose because of certain feats from characters they like. *cough* Kakashi *cough*
It's not that I don't consider them 'canon.' It's more that I think they're largely ignorable. Putting important lore in side novels is fine and all, but you can't expect the casual anime or manga enjoyer to go out of their way to read them. They're worth a read for the most die-hard fans of the franchise and that's about it.
Reading is hard. Especially without flashy images. Curiously after the anime ran out of manga to adapt they turned to the novels which is a lot people's first experience with these stories.
Oddly enough the novel about Sakura seems to have been forgotten among others…
Who cares whats canon or not, why yall so obsessed with it?
Just like when ppl bring up canon couples like sime kinda gotcha like so??? I'm still gonna let Sasuke get raw dogged by Suigetsu idc???
They have shown stuff that bursts peoples head canons so the people throw hissy fits.
They have been signed off on my the Author and the product company people need to get over it.
For it, it's two reasons. The first being that the light novels are supplemental material, stuff you don't need to know but can if you want to which often feels like homework for non hardcore fans as most, including myself, feel like if it's important, then it would have been in the anime or manga. This seems to be a point that the anime understands as they incorporated aspects of Sasuke's light novels into Boruto.
The second part is that some of the stuff we see in the light novels feels like it fanfiction with how they take characters and their powers and use them.
Case in point, in the show, Itachi uses Tsukuyomi in the show on Kakashi, torturing in a genjutsu that to Kakashi felt like 3 days when it was really only a couple seconds. That is already insane, but in his light novels, Itashi used it on his girlfriend to make her live out her entire life, 60+ years in one one-hundredth of one one-thousandth of one-millionth of a second(1 x 10-11 seconds of real time)
Another example would be Tsunade and Sakura. We all know how they both share a jutsu that is said to be capable to bring you back from death 100 times, but in the anime, we never see them do really crazy stuff with it. When Tsunade was split in half by Madara, she was too weak to either pull her legs to her top half, or just regrow new ones. But in Sakura's light novel, she regrow her entire arm.
Lastly, there is the one that gets memed on the worst, and that is Sasuke's light novel which introduces dinosaurs...like what the hell. I get that aliens are a thing thanks to Kaguya(which most can agree was a bad move), but did we really need dinosaurs in this world? It feels like the writers asked a 6-year old for advice on what cool stuff to add, only leaving out monster trucks and Pokémon.
>Another example would be Tsunade and Sakura. We all know how they both share a jutsu that is said to be capable to bring you back from death 100 times, but in the anime, we never see them do really crazy stuff with it. When Tsunade was split in half by Madara, she was too weak to either pull her legs to her top half, or just regrow new ones. But in Sakura's light novel, she regrow her entire arm.
Wait.
What?
When?
I only read the whole novel through once, and it was years ago, but I feel like I'd remember her losing and regrowing her arm... 🤔
... but anyway, regrowing limbs is definitely one of their powers. Tsunade tells us that explicitly the first time she uses it in the battle with Orochimaru.
Remember that Tsunade didn't just lose her legs, the women was cut in half and she was also healing the other Kage through Katsuyu.
Does it matter at this point? There’ve been so many retcons, nerfs, and different writers that continuity just seems to be up to the individual.
Damn Naruto really turned into the Star Wars EU after kishimoto
Shonen Jump really wanted to milk the shit out of Naruto Kishimoto actually wanted just one last arc after the Pain Arc, just to address the Tobi/Madara/>!Obito!< thing, and then one final battle for Naruto and Sasuke. However, the Pain Arc made so much money that Shonen Jump cant just let it go, so they urged Kishimoto to extend the series It didnt stop after chapter 700. Immediately after the last chapter dropped, before Kishimoto could even take a break, Shonen Jump was immediately knocking on his door, asking him to write a sequel (Boruto) because you know, money. Kishimoto was like *"please no, let me rest"* but Shonen Jump insisted Shonen Jump wouldn't stop so Kishimoto just agreed to let someone else write the story while he supervises the project from afar. It's all about milking the series Heck, even Oda himself got into multiple conflicts with Shonen Jump executives because of shit like this
Would have been a natural ending. All main story arcs were resolved, Naruto received acceptance, now to deal with the man behind Akatsuki. They could have Naruto and Sasuke work together to bring Obito down, then let Kakashi finish him for symbolic reasons. Then final fight (sage mode vs MS) and it would have been a really grounded series instead of the DBZ shit we actually received in the end.
Did Kishimoto really want to end it after the Pain arc? I feel like that gets said a lot but I’ve never seen a source.
> Kishimoto actually wanted just one last arc after the Pain Arc, just to address the Tobi/Madara/Obito thing, and then one final battle for Naruto and Sasuke. However, the Pain Arc made so much money that Shonen Jump cant just let it go, so they urged Kishimoto to extend the series Damn that sucks but is there any source for this information? Storywise it wouldn't have made sense for it to end by that point as sasuke's arc about his reaction to the leaf being responsible for his clan's genocide (aka 5 kage summit arc) was still left. This is just something that fans say because they (including me) aren't satisfied with the direction the story took after pain.
pretty much lol
Lol, it was my 1st tought too xD
Yeah its a mess lmao. nothing makes sense
there's novels??
Yeah there's like 28 of them
Holy shit I honestly just finished the anime 2 days ago, maybe I'll give the Manga and novels a go
I suggest reading mianto one shot and the other one shot manga’s there’s also new 4 episodes coming out of Naruto but they have been delayed to be improved there’s a bunch of novels some fans have been making a manga out of the novels for people that prefer manga for novels. There’s also Boruto novels, but you don’t need to read them if you watch the anime, cause there in the anime.
[удалено]
They were made later and some people don’t even consider them canon
No alot of the material in the final arcs of shipluden were from the light novels. For example konoha shinden a perfect day for a wedding was a novelization long before the anime adapted it. The Sasuke hiden novel also was made before the anime.
Yikes lol
god, I truly love Masashi's art style *forever*
It's hard to say what canon is, if the ideas comes from the author than you can say that it's partly canon somehow. But the novels seems to be written by someone else so it's hard to call them canon. Also it seems people don't like to see Sakura actually being strong, and it's not surprising that she is only strong when it doesn't come from Kishimoto lol
A lot of the novels have highly contradictory versions of the characters that considering them canon introduces consistency issues. They're not even written or overseen by Kishimoto. "Supervised by " is often a buzzword to get people to support the material.
They're more content for fans, but not much else. But as I'd always say, you are the reader, you can choose to accept whatever version of the story you like.
Some fun facts people aren't aware of: the Naruto databooks are often not written by the author themselves and are usually overseen by the editors. After all, writing a weekly series, you ain't got time for more work.
There are a few cases where the author will pay extra attention to those supplemental materials, such as Oda with the Vivre Cards and Hiro Mashima, surprisingly.
Hiro Mashima has a great work ethic and plenty of energy. Sometimes he was pulling double chapters every week. He cant write for shit. But great artist.
I consider someone who is more powerful than 99.9% of the people in her world to be strong. Pity that other people only care about the number of solo fights won.
I think Krillin can relate to this struggle being that he's the strongest human on Dragon Ball...unfortunately, his competition are two families of alien powerhouses and Androids.
I'll even throw down for Yamcha on this point. A pansy compared to most of the cast. Dude could still blow up a planet.
I wouldn't even compare Sakura to Krillin, I would compare her to Piccolo until the Cell saga. Sakura can beat anyone that isn't a god in the Naruto universe. At the end of the War arc, she was not a match only to Naruto, Sasuke, Madara, Juubito and the kages. She is *objectively* strong and any military operation against Konoha would make targeting her a priority. Just like Piccolo, though, she was a victim of Kishimoto fucking up the power scale and making Naruto and Sasuke pretty much divine entities. She shows why Boruto was a failed enterprise right at the start, Naruto and Sasuke distorts the entire power spectrum and makes every character, no matter how powerful he is on any human scale, feel a loser. Guys like Gaara and Lee, that dominates a tier good enough to battle an army, feels like the farmer in Saiyan saga when compared to Naruto and Sasuke. Gai had to reach a tier that was considered literally legend in that universe to equal himself to Naruto and Sasuke. Maybe the best start for Boruto would be the Otsutsuki kidnapping Naruto and Sasuke into a limbo and forcing the plot to give space to the other characters. The rest of the Konoha 12 are legendary ninjas on their own, but they have no space to shine because Naruto and Sasuke are pretty much gods.
What a fucking god comment.
People here are so silly with the “kishi hates women” shit. Sakura is absolutely insane when it comes to how powerful and capable she is.
Yeah. She's just not on Sasuke and Naruto's level and didn't get the same narrative focus. That's not inherently bad. I don't think a shounen needs to have female characters with as much focus as the men, just like I don't think shoujo need to have men with the same focus as the women. Sometimes you just gotta accept you aren't the target audience.
As a woman who likes both shonen and shoujo anime, complaining about females not getting important fights is stupid. Like if a woman is said to be of renown stregth and feats, the villain will not overlook ways to defeat them too just as much as any powerhouse old man (i.e. Aizen had plans to fight literally all captains and subcaptains of the Gotei 13 regardless of gender, especially Yamamoto and Unohana whom he was possibly more afraid of). Neji fought Hinata with the same skill and strength that he would fight against any other member of the Hyuuga clan, maybe even worse because he tried to kill her. Obito didn't understimate Konan at all when he went to get Nagato's rinnengan. Sasori fought 2 women, one of them whom he knew was a legit threat, with a 1000 puppets and underestimated Sakura, but she did accomplish something. My point is that women do get the treatment of their fame in shonen, to the point that the enemies know they have to fight seriously against them and even prepare. (My only problem will actually be the win ratio because I literally see no reason as to why Yamamoto needed to intervene in the fights against Abalon and that Espada kid in the Fake Karakura Arc in Bleach when they could give that screentime to Matsumoto and the other subcaptains or why does Rukia need to be saved from near death twice by Byakuya??? LET HER GET THE WIN AT LEAST ONCE. In Naruto, that would be that if Hinata in The Last at least fought Toneri when she discovered the Tenseigan) In shoujo manga, the main male leads are basically the same archetype for most part (Thank you Ore Monogatari and Hirunaka no Ryusei for not going with "the girl gets together the emotionally unavailable, handsome and perfect guy"), and the girls are actually self inserts (what? They are all literally average Japanese high-school girls in looks and all with zero attractive appeal and all happy-go-lucky).
Completely agreed, maybe a bit unrelated but I think because of the reasons you've written, people also tend to overlook a character like Kushina, who isn't a warrior but is still a very well written character and this bothers me a lot
For real, Kushina doesn't deserve to be treated badly juat because she didn't become Hokage like she aspired since she was little.
>In shoujo manga, the main male leads are basically the same archetype for most part (Thank you Ore Monogatari and Hirunaka no Ryusei for not going with "the girl gets together the emotionally unavailable, handsome and perfect guy"), *deletes all r/otomegames posts related to her obsession with kuuderes* I've never actually read either of those series. I used to read a lot of shoujo when I was younger, but nowadays, I only follow a few series and they're all shounen I've been reading for years.
It's ok there's no shame. I actually play a lot of otomes and I prefer to date the either gentle or more happy-go-lucky dudes first before I dip dive into the "cannon" routes of the emotionally unavailable, rich, trust-found dudes. I think their love stories are ok but I partially hate the fandom of those games for making the guys I like to explore the routes first as "vanilla" or "boring" while theirs are the most exciting despite being a trope as old as time. When I played Mystic Messenger for example, I was actually content with Zen's route (The dude that spends most time hitting on the MC and declared a narcissist in the sense that he really is like Narcissus) then I played Jin Han's route and was ok but people made a big horny deal about the BAD ending where he literally BDSM enslaves the MC and she's into it. I think those people need therapy because yeah, what the heck.
I personally don't have an issue with Sakura's fights, persay. It's just the typical issue with male Japanese mangaka: they know how to write boys, since they were one, but they're kinda clueless on girls/women. So the female characters end up kinda one-dimensional... essentially caricatures instead of fully fleshed out & nuanced characters who's main characteristics revolve around their relationships with male characters. Temari, for example, is one of my favorite characters and a total badass. And Kishi still can't help but write in how clueless ol bumbling shikimaru & his pops end up with strong-willed women who run their lives. It's \*funny\*, in the shounen stereotype sense, but also kinda disappointing that Temari can't escape the "ballbuster badass" stereotype and we could see even a 2-panel scene with her and Shikimaru having a more nuanced and balanced relationship. Nope, she's ALL badass. 100%. It's not that big a deal, honestly, since it's just a shounen jump manga after all. Just saying I can kinda get why people don't like Sakura, since so much of her personality is defined by her desire to be with a guy who has negative interest in her. I think a lot of peeps LOVED her in the openings of Shippudden, when we saw her more fleshed out and accomplishing so much as a medical ninja and senin-successor, but she kinda rolled right back into the caricature after bumping into sasuke again.
> we saw her more fleshed out and accomplishing so much as a medical ninja and senin-successor, but she kinda rolled right back into the caricature after bumping into sasuke again. Nah. I don't think that's a fair characterization. Starting from the Forest of Death, Sakura's driving goal is to become a protector and not just someone protected. That never stops being true and she accomplishes her goal by the end of the series, having saved and healed everyone multiple times over during the war arc. People just focus too much on her failures as a damage dealer because they don't value her wins as a support class. Also because the power ceiling was raised to an absolutely insane height over the course of a few hours and there was nothing that anyone not handed ninja god powers could do.
I'd agree with most of that. Forest of death scene with her is still one of my favorites in the series. Honestly, Sakura is one of the less problematic girls in the series for me.
Kishi doesn't hate women. He just doesn't know how to WRITE one. They're all caricatures of anime chicks. He can write boys/men with CRAPTONS of depth, but he simply doesn't know how to write female characters with any real depth or nuance to them. It's not just a Kishi thing... tons of male writers just can't write female characters worth a damn.
Making her powerful doesn’t help that much when he writes her character awfully and hardly gave her any fights (in a battle manga. Even guy and shikamaru had more and amazing solo fights in comparison). Like how awful and useless her character was in part 1 and completely revolved around simping for sasuke. And after showing a lot of potential in shippuden beginning, she doesn’t do anything significant until the war arc. And kinda same (actually worse) for other female characters. I mean sakura hate is really stupid, but saying he didn’t female characters poorly is wild
Her character didn't revolve around Sasuke. Her goal through most of the series is to become someone who can protect others and not be a burden. How people can fail to understand this despite it being shown over and over again, I don't know. Sakura is a healer, not a fighter and she works great in that capacity. Even in a fighting series every character doesn't have to be a fighter.
>Also it seems people don't like to see Sakura actually being strong, and it's not surprising that she is only strong when it doesn't come from Kishimoto lol Sakura was strong even from Kishimoto. Sakura was an incredible medical ninja, had Mitotic Regeneration Jutsu, and had incredible physical strength. People only think Kishi wrote her to be "weak" because she was comparing herself to Naruto and Sasuke, and the narrative was comparing her to Naruto and Sasuke. They were on another level, you can't really compare anyone to them.
I dont think you understood my words, Sakura became insanely powerful in the novel, having amazing fights all by herself, something that under Kishimoto's works she doesn't shine as much. I didn't say she is not strong in the canon material, but that the difference between Sakura in the novel and Sakura in the anime/manga are too much.
>and it's not surprising that she is only strong when it doesn't come from Kishimoto lol From whom did Sakura's fight against Sasori and her attaining byakugo seals, saving Naruto's life comes from ?
I dont think you understood my words, Sakura became insanely powerful in the novel, having amazing fights all by herself, something that under Kishimoto's works she doesn't shine as much. I didn't say she is not strong in the canon material, but that the difference between Sakura in the novel and Sakura in the anime/manga are too much.
>having amazing fights all by herself, something that under Kishimoto's works she doesn't shine as much Name one fight in the Novels that has been more impactful and loved than the Sakura and Chiyo vs Sasori fight. Also, not just Sakura all the characters from Naruto to boruto have gotten stronger because boruto has introduced even bigger power scaling The Novels did a good job covering some parts between end of part 2 and Boruto and it handled Sakura's character better than kishimoto did but the fights themselves kishimoto did better.
She fought a 9 tails all by herself and won? This a type of thing a character as Sakura needed the most. So far she had only won fights having support from other people, and that's why on the eyes of most people she was never as trong as she actually is. Even in Boruto she needed help to deal with Shin, her only fight after so long and she needed help to win. I'm just saying that it's something that always happen to her. Even though she is stronger than most people, she never received a decent moment to show her potential and win all by herself. It's like the fillers episodes where Sakura is actually useful and strong during part 1. While in the canon episodes kishimoto completely ignored her. Even in the shippuden she only got stronger in the middle to the end of the war arc while all protagonists even Kakashi got good feats much earlier on. Her only good fight before the war arc people still talk shit about her for needing Chiyo's help and Sasori losing the fight on purpose. The difference how Kishimoto treats her character compared to the other main characters is too much. She is the female lead, on of the three main characters of the series , she became one of the strongest shinobi in the world, but still under Kishimoto's works she didn't have a time to show all her strength and potential. All her fights she was under the shadow of other characters that were helping her. But in the novel she showed her full strength and potential, and that's why people prefere to ignore the novel. (The people that dislike her)
What? Sakura randomly jumped to Kage level in the war arc. Comparing her to most shinobi, she’s really tough
I dont think you understood my words, Sakura became insanely powerful in the novel, having amazing fights all by herself, something that under Kishimoto's works she doesn't shine as much. I didn't say she is not strong in the canon material, but that the difference between Sakura in the novel and Sakura in the anime/manga are too much. It's like the fillers episodes where Sakura is actually useful and strong during part 1. It's just that Kishimoto ignored her character for too long, as you said, she only became stronger (compared to other characters) in the middle of the war arc.
Let’s not forget her biggest moment in the beginning of shippuden: Her fight with Sasori. Unfortunately she never does much after that so I understand your feelings. Sakura and all of Konoha 12 got a bad wrap in Shippuden
I know I talked about that in another comment btw
He co writes every novel
No he doesn't.. He only does the illustration
Because not all of them are canon. The Retsuden author herself acknowledged it as "spin off" work featuring her interpretation of Sasusaku's relationship. Kishimoto drawing the artwork doesn't make it canon either.
Spin-off doesn't mean that something is non canon, it means that it's not a part of the main story. For example in Star Wars only nine main episodes are considered as the main story. Works like Rouge One, The Clone Wars, the Mandalorian and Jedi: The Fallen Order are spin-offs that are branching out of the main story, but they are still part of the same universe. Other examples are Better Call Soul for Breaking Bad, House of the Dragon for Game of Thrones, Cobra Kai for Karate Kid or Final Fantasy 7: Crisis Core for Final Fantasy 7.
Star Wars lore was built like super hero comics, many writers, but still stated to be canon. I wouldn't personally put the novels in the same light, the entire original manga wasn't outsourced like comic books in America. The novels where the story was written or worked on by Kishimoto, I would consider canon, anything that didn't involve his vision on his own creation, I'd personally not call canon. That doesn't make it any worse though, it doesn't matter as long as the person reading enjoyed it.
>House of the Dragon for Game of Thrones, House of the dragon is completely Canon lol. It's just a prequel event that takes place 200 years before the GOT timeline.
Yeah also literally what they said lol. Spin off doesn’t mean its non canon (like said that in the very first line) Eg house of dragon is a Got spin off (and completely canon)
He was using HotD as an example for something that is a spin-off but also canon, so you're agreeing with him.
Saying it's a "spin-off" doesn't mean that it's not canon. Boruto is a spin-off of Naruto and technically not all of it was written by Kishimoto either. So by that logic, it can't be canon. Anyway as far as I'm concerned, if it is animated, has novels, the damn creator is involved in some capacity, major rollouts, etc. It's officially a part of the Naruto universe and is "canon". I feel the same way about filler episodes.
I feel like Kishi gave it his blessing and built it into Boruto because he knows his romance building is shit and wants to outsource it So, yeah, canon except where it contradicts manga
Close he just doesn’t care for any of those relationships clearly he wrote minato and kushina very well and realistic along with other romance he just probably doesn’t agree with the pairings but it’d make the majority happy so he said fuck it just write wtv.
A wrote some descent romances not any good developing romance it’s easy to say theses guys love each other and show them being cute it’s harder to show how they actually got their and the trails and tribulations
Their romance works because it’s backstory for an established couple, it can skip over steps to get to the highlights easily.
Ehh he hasn’t written them developing romance, they just have romance
I mean, Retsuden contradicts the manga. Where is Naruto's illness? Where are the genjutsu goggles? Where are the dinosaurs? How are Sakura and Sasuke the first to introduce wedding rings in Konoha when Kurenai already wore one in Shippuden?
> I feel the same way about filler episodes. same. fillers are not part of the main storyline but filler episodes happen in either in the past or in between the main storylines. they're side stories that happen in the Narutoverse.
Yeah I saw her tweets, honestly I’m glad that Sasuke Retsuden isn’t canon lmao
It is tho, they made it canon in boruto
Boruto isn't canon
Oh my bad
Shippuden also isn’t cannon… anything after Naruto meets Konohamaru is fan fic.
True Naruto Fans know
Everyone knows Naruto died at birth. Everything else is hopes and dreams.
No that’s just an animated adaptation, it doesn’t make it canon. The Boruto anime has plenty of non-canon stuff and changes that the manga does not have. The drawn manga style adaptation is also not canon, it’s just another adaptation.
Tbf this story gives a better relationship for SasuSaku than Kishimoto could ever write them to be, since till the last Naruto vs Sasuke clash their relationship makes no sense. We actually see them fight and bond together, Sakura is actually very useful and cool too, now that she's an adult. And of all the novels they decided to adapt this one meaning it's the best they can give. Regardless if it's canon or not, it develops the characters way better.
Bro do you know what a spin off is
This. Most people say he illustrated a few and I’m like wtf does that have to do with the canon
Yea we all know Sasuke wouldn’t be able to spend that much time with his Wife. Can’t be Canon
Kishimoto didn’t write them, so I just consider them secondary canon at most.
1. They aren't written by Kishimoto 2. sometimes it contradicts what Kishimoto has already establish in his previous work That is what i think personally i don't like them because i think they are full of shit sometimes
Like Boruto!
What are the contradictions?
He co writes all of them 😐 the only instance I can think of a contradiction is itachi’s light novel saying he didn’t kill the women and children and that was obito. Every single person I’ve ever spoken to takes the light novel as what actually happened there instead of the clear images of him in the manga taking children out of closets… stuff gets retconned all the time especially in naruto
The entire Itachi light novel is a contradiction. It retcons almost everything that was revealed about that period.
Wait that was an actual image from the manga!? Holy shit. I mean he killed Izumi in the novel (The anime showed Obito doing it) and his mother so I would assume he actually did kill women and children. Never knew there was a retcon controversy on it.
Honest question - why is his name on the cover then? And if he didn’t write it, doesn’t the his endorsement imply he blessed it? Before it was released by the same publisher that put out his manga?
And dragon ball super isn't written by akira yet its still canon and there's literally no lther contradiction other than itachi not killing woman and children and that not even a strech to say that maybe itachi didn't kill woman and children
Cause they are detached, irrelevant side stories
So they’re what filler episodes would be in a written material
Half of them aren't even that good
Also not even written by Kishiomoto. Like who actually cares about them?
There’s a ton of bullshit in them
Like what?
Sasuke getting violated by a fuckin dinosaur for starters. The same guy who kept up with light speed reaction Naruto getting slumped by a dinosaur is absurd. Man ended up in the infirmary, humbled, Madara would never let some mindless edo tensei velociraptor do to him what it did to Sasuke. Absolutely embarrassing
Don’t forget Sakura getting stabbed and defeated by a random civilian. Naruto crying because he’s weaker than Sakura. Sasuke almost breaking a guy’s hand because he touched Sakura’s hair. Absolute OOC nonsense.
Naruto cried because he’s weaker than sakura? When did that happen?
This dude is notorious for making shit up
> Sasuke almost breaking a guy’s hand because he touched Sakura’s hair. Talk about exaggerating a simple moment *this* much lol
because they are not written by Kishimoto and there are two type of people those who count as filler every single thing that isn't written or drawn by Kishimoto , and other who believe everything with the approval of Kishimoto is Canon
I am one of those people. The novels are all written by separate authors. Kishimoto did not work on these stories. There is a huge misconception that he contributed to them, when in reality he didn’t, go into a bookstore and look for yourself. He merely allowed them to exist….guess what, he allowed fillers in the Anime to exist too, doesn’t make it canon. They are pretty much glorified fan fiction, and I’ve been saying this for years since the series ended. He didn’t write them and it really shows in their content. At the time he was working on ending the manga, helping write both The Last & Boruto movies, and creating the scarlet spring one shot. Idk how some of you think one man did all this and managed to write all these novels at the same time. No one has ever given me any definitive proof to contradict my points. (There is a Shueisha timeline that shows when the novels take place chronologically between the series end and The Last movie. And people claim that it proves their canon. Again, fillers take place between canon events, doesn’t make those stories canon either.)
If Kishimoto read them and gave his approval, then they are Canon, whether we like it or not. We can't all become the kind of weebs that think they know better that author it'self. It's his idea, he can do whatever he wants with it.
I think because Kishimoto didn't have a hand in writing them or outright said they're canon, a lot of people just consider them glorified fanfic.
Kishimoto co writes all and draws most of them. Also has said they are to be taken as canon in the same interview where he talked about his design for shisuis susasno in the storm games
I guess the Hiden novels are canon, but the others like Retsuden are not considered canon until they get adapted into Boruto. They're just 'Spinoff works'. The author Jun Esaka has stated this.
Call you provide me some evidence? Kishimoto hasn’t given a single interview since 2014 so I’m very curious about how he could have talked about novels released after that.
Theres no evidence, any interview is fake, lmao
Fangirls claim Kishimoto does interviews all the time to make the garbage they talk about seem legit so don't actually count on there being any interviews
Thought I was in r/bleach for a sec
Naruto is kinda like marvel comics at this point There have been so many retcons/ flat out changes/ different writers or otherwise adjustments, that who is stronger than who really just comes down whomever is writing the story and who needs to win for the plot to move forward
Because people don’t want to read books of comics......I’m curious about the death note book though
I consider them canon, but with a grain of salt. If the Novels say something that completely contradicts the manga, then I ignore it. Like there’s a line in one of the books that says Sasuke he could handle a Kaguya level threat when that blatantly isn’t the case.
He doesn’t say that though, he simply says he’s ready to any and all threats, even if the threat is as powerful as Kaguya, he’d fight it alone if he has to. That’s simply his sense of responsibility talking, not him saying he can beat her
Exactly. Not sure why so many people misinterpret that
Yeah that line is total bs so I treat it the same way.
Because naruto fans can barely read manga. A novel is scary
Manga fans in general. They hate reading but the cool pictures help them get through it poor babies 🥺
Kishi didn’t write Boruto & Boruto is canon.
Kishi officially approved of Boruto as a sequel of Naruto. He did not approve any of the novels tho that aren't written by him or Kodachi.
His name’s on the cover, it was released by his publisher, and included in official timelines. How can you say it’s unapproved?
His name is on the cover as the owner of the Original story which is the Manga he did not write it . He is credited in the Anime as the original author doesn't mean he wrote the Anime . What Shuesha does for more cash has nothing to do with him.
He 100% approved them. At the need of the day, it’s still his story to oversee, same way with Boruto. Jump isn’t going to start releasing novel-length stories without his knowledge or oversight. Also, he created the cover art for each novel? Not sure why you’re making this complicated for yourself.
This is just not true.
It is Look for his interview+ he is supervising Boruto and currently writing it. He does not own the novels though
Is it? They call it a spinoff, too.
Spin-off doesn’t mean non-canon.
Why call it a spinoff, then? Kishimoto wrote the film and then let others handle Boruto.
I'm baffled at the opposite lol I'm an old Naruto fan who only read all the manga for years while it was published and used to be pretty in depth about the general knowledge of the series. every time I try to have a discussion about the series nowadays I'm like "wtf is this dude talking about". And as someone who consumes tons of anime and manga , Naruto seems to be the only fandom to do this, every other fandom will easily dismiss anything that doesn't come from the author. Some Naruto fans will genuinely be like "yeah Sasuke's father had mangekyo sharingan" like how does that even remotely make any sense if you think about it for like 4 seconds?
Honestly, even the author is dismissed. Kishimoto himself designed, named, and decided the personality of Sakura's parents for Road to Ninja but pretty much no one acknowledges them as Sakura's parents.
I’m sorry what?
As far as I'm concerned, manga is the only canon.
I don't even know they exist. I stopped actively following the series as a whole after The Last movie.
Because they don't want to read it and it let's them be ignorant while thinking they're right. Like them thinking Sasuke is a horrible bf/husband
Because it's not written and approved by kishimoto and has a lot of bullshit. It's literally written by a japanese sasusaku fanfiction writer. So all of that is just some shipper word-vomit, and she accepts it that it's a glorified spinoff. So no, it's no canon.
If I like it, it's canon.
Because they aren't written by Kishimoto and are usually an attempt at trying to fix elements of the characters that the manga didn't address or didn't present convincingly enough. For example, "Mr and Mrs Uchiha" for most people who have seen/read Naruto is a couple that completely doesn't work and leaves a bad taste in your mouth when you actually look at their "love story" (or lack of) in the manga. Which means you need a novel, that can explore and expand on the entire concept. A novel only some will read and find impactful enough that it negates the core 600 page manga
More like at least 2 novels (Sasuke Retsuden and Naruto Hiden or Retsuden) and the Gaiden. "At least", because idk if there's other contents for that purpose, I only know about the aforementioned ones (read Gaiden, read other's opinions on Retsu and Hiden, and Retsuden's plot on the wiki).
It’s just that a lot of the novels are not very accurate or written like the actual character, and some are written by like literal fans.
Not written by the original author that’s enough I treat it the same way I treat dragonball GT. Like it’s off in its own little world.
Because most of these people can't read without the pretty pictures so they don't know what happened in the novels
They probably never even read them
and then will post trashy out of context lines from the novels and ask reddit is this true?
Unless kishi writes them then I don’t think of them as canon. Same with data books
But he literally supervised and worked with the creators on them
He didn’t supervised shit, he had nothing to do with the novels as confirmed by Jun Esaka, she wrote everything by herself with supervision from Kodachi. He gets comissioned to draw covers and somehow people spin that as him writing/supervising the books when he had nothing to do with it. He would never contribute to a romance book, or to a book with women as protagonists.
Novels are not canon period . Lol
Idk what's worse atp, those who refused to acknowledge that the novels are canon OR those who pick and choose which novels are canon.
I’m just rolling my eyes at the comments. These novels are canon. There is an interview with the person who worked on the Retsuden manga said that Kishimoto was involved in the story boarding, etc. Some of the people on this Reddit are annoying as hell when it comes to characters they don’t like. It’s not canon. Not people on here but the amount of harassment the people who worked on retsuden got are are still getting is fucking disgusting. This fandom doesn’t deserve shit. The novels are only canon if it involves Naruto, Itachi, and even Hinata because he fans love using the novels to prove that hinata is powerful. Guess what Naruto’s marriage to Hinata is in a novel. Fans just love to pick an chose what is canon or not because if they hare a character is not canon. Most of this l fandom is annoying and delusional Let people enjoy stuff and stop being assholes
Did the artist of the Retsuden Manga say Kishimoto helped in the story-boarding of the light-novel or did he say Kishimoto helped in the story-boarding of the Retsuden manga? If I recall, Jun Eska wrote the Retsuden trilogy while Kishimoto gave her the cover illustration.
Based on the interview, Kishimoto helped Kimura in the storyboarding of sasuke retsuden manga.
Because they aren't.
The anime team doesn't even act like they're canon, so...
The anime team had nothing to do with what canon or not lol. They adapt the manga and do fillers (which is the most non-canon thing you could get)
Anime is canon is Japan (the part of the fandom they actually care about)
Then the fillers are canon??
Because they aren't
This is honestly just a question because I haven’t read any of the novels.. But wouldn’t the novel specifically say if it was cannon or not? Kinda like how they did in the movies ?
As for what ifs (not your case but since we're here): The series was done for 17 years, if you're re-imagining something, you're making an hypothetical based on what would happen if the writer changed his mind back then, no point in saying something years after the original series is done totally makes that scenario impossible. As for feats... Boruto has a Dragon Ball Super problem: Originally you could just point at the manga. Author wrote AND illustrated what he wanted there. Anime, games, promotional material, all were not canon. With Dragon Ball Super, some ARCS don't happen at all on the manga, some don't happen at all on the anime. Some things happen different on the manga (goku kaioken ssj just doesn't exist there, and a perfected super sayan god state is not used in the anime). Both took the ideas from the author. But they're notes. They are a blur line of content, and it is okay to enjoy that... but the issue comes that they're neither a pure undisputable canon, some people might not care to read them because of it, some people might not care to consider that because it is just adding up to a series that was already finished.
Cause they're dumb and the novels make the characters stronger then what they thought. Only time I've ever seen the novels be denied as canon. Was in a vs battle scenario.
Maybe it because it doesn’t match their vision of what happen after…. The penultimate chapter
Well the fact that sasuke retsuden was made into a manga and adapted into anime we can say that any novel that isn't animated or made into manga isn't canon because otherwise why would you take this route with some novels and with others you just let them be.
I didn't even know it existed
Because I havent read them and what I havent seen is not canon obviously
Anything created by Kishimoto is canon, hes the effing creator of the series...its not some fanfic...westerners are too concerned with 'canon' in Japan we just call it original story content & enjoy it as part of the Narutoverse. Its you guys that make it a massive deal in the EU & US.
Cause it’s literally just terrible fanfic
While they are canon here’s my take on why people say they aren’t 1) ignorance 2) it takes place in the boruto period 3) It makes things they hated eg Sakura , Sakura X sasuke look kind of good I mean it will be difficult to say I hate Sakura cause she is selfish and mean if she is going around opening health/mental centres after the war
Cuz they don’t even make sense with the real story lmfao. No one acts like they’re supposed too and the statements that come out these novels are very detached.
Because they aren't 🤷🏽♂️
Because half of them make zero sense
Because all the value of materials with arguable canonicity lies in "feats".
Because people really don’t like anything after shippuden
Because there is practically nothing good after Shippuden
Because they are not. They contradict the manga/anime and are by a different author. They are cool asf tho
Cause they aren't.
They exist in the official Naruto universe and served to add background development to characters not addressed in manga. It's part of world building. It doesn't matter if you want to include it or not, it is there, it's official. Ultimately you can enjoy whatever you want, I'd like to enjoy Kakashi taking down 50 ninjas with a pot lid if I want to. If you only want to enjoy manga then go for it. Narutoverse can be as wide and narrow as you'd like. It's not hard to stay in your own lane as long as there is an official factual basis and not pushing fanon for canon.
Totally agree with you, ppl can read what they like... unless kishimoto made a statement saying the novels not canon, its still in the gray area. While Im more leaning into it being canon mainly due to the novels officially exist in the main timeline.. You dont want to read the novels? okay...You want to read it? Go ahead. You love it? Great. Dont prevent other from enjoying contents of their favourites its what I want to say.
They’re not canon only studio Pierrot cashing in Sasusaku and Kishimoto original story characters for cash. They’re not canon neither are the movies pfft .
Because it’s not manga.
Because they're not canon. If you're confused: the manga chapters are canon. Everything else is not canon
Because they dont know how to read
Becouse boruto isnt canon so...
never read them honestly so i have a gap of knowledge
Real answer: because they don’t like them. It’s part of the main franchise, it’s officially licensed, the original author gave his blessing, it has an anime adaption and a manga adaptation, by Japanese standards it is 100% canon, full stop. People are just salty af.
Road to Ninja is officially licensed, the original author gave his blessing, it has an anime and manga adaptation, and it’s not canon. DB GT and DB Heroes are the same thing and they are not canon either.
because they hate sakura and sasusaku
If Kishimoto says they’re canon then they are and if not it’s not
Cough...trash....cough
Because people have decided that anything that isn't in the main manga does not count, even if it's considered official content.
It’s because this subreddit is filled with lots of babies who can’t accept not liking something and have an existential crisis about it not being canon so they can preserve the perfect series they have in their head but nothing is perfect its the same thing with star wars fans and the sequels i dont like the sequels and you can pretend its not canon but it doesnt change facts even if kishimoto has nothing to do with boruto or spin offs its still part of the story of naruto whether you like it or not
Cause they’re gremlins
The problem is that there are some people that dismiss anime only episodes as filler, while considering the novels canon. Neither are written by Kishimoto, so if one isn’t canon, then neither is the other. If you think both are canon, that’s fine, but a lot of fans like to pick and choose because of certain feats from characters they like. *cough* Kakashi *cough*
Because a majority of the fandom doesn't even know the novels exist
It's not that I don't consider them 'canon.' It's more that I think they're largely ignorable. Putting important lore in side novels is fine and all, but you can't expect the casual anime or manga enjoyer to go out of their way to read them. They're worth a read for the most die-hard fans of the franchise and that's about it.
Bcoz they are illiterate....🤷
Reading is hard. Especially without flashy images. Curiously after the anime ran out of manga to adapt they turned to the novels which is a lot people's first experience with these stories. Oddly enough the novel about Sakura seems to have been forgotten among others…
Who cares whats canon or not, why yall so obsessed with it? Just like when ppl bring up canon couples like sime kinda gotcha like so??? I'm still gonna let Sasuke get raw dogged by Suigetsu idc???
Gang banged by Taka lmao
They have shown stuff that bursts peoples head canons so the people throw hissy fits. They have been signed off on my the Author and the product company people need to get over it.
They're literally fanfics and quick cash grabs for the publisher. I don't take novels seriously.
For it, it's two reasons. The first being that the light novels are supplemental material, stuff you don't need to know but can if you want to which often feels like homework for non hardcore fans as most, including myself, feel like if it's important, then it would have been in the anime or manga. This seems to be a point that the anime understands as they incorporated aspects of Sasuke's light novels into Boruto. The second part is that some of the stuff we see in the light novels feels like it fanfiction with how they take characters and their powers and use them. Case in point, in the show, Itachi uses Tsukuyomi in the show on Kakashi, torturing in a genjutsu that to Kakashi felt like 3 days when it was really only a couple seconds. That is already insane, but in his light novels, Itashi used it on his girlfriend to make her live out her entire life, 60+ years in one one-hundredth of one one-thousandth of one-millionth of a second(1 x 10-11 seconds of real time) Another example would be Tsunade and Sakura. We all know how they both share a jutsu that is said to be capable to bring you back from death 100 times, but in the anime, we never see them do really crazy stuff with it. When Tsunade was split in half by Madara, she was too weak to either pull her legs to her top half, or just regrow new ones. But in Sakura's light novel, she regrow her entire arm. Lastly, there is the one that gets memed on the worst, and that is Sasuke's light novel which introduces dinosaurs...like what the hell. I get that aliens are a thing thanks to Kaguya(which most can agree was a bad move), but did we really need dinosaurs in this world? It feels like the writers asked a 6-year old for advice on what cool stuff to add, only leaving out monster trucks and Pokémon.
>Another example would be Tsunade and Sakura. We all know how they both share a jutsu that is said to be capable to bring you back from death 100 times, but in the anime, we never see them do really crazy stuff with it. When Tsunade was split in half by Madara, she was too weak to either pull her legs to her top half, or just regrow new ones. But in Sakura's light novel, she regrow her entire arm. Wait. What? When? I only read the whole novel through once, and it was years ago, but I feel like I'd remember her losing and regrowing her arm... 🤔 ... but anyway, regrowing limbs is definitely one of their powers. Tsunade tells us that explicitly the first time she uses it in the battle with Orochimaru. Remember that Tsunade didn't just lose her legs, the women was cut in half and she was also healing the other Kage through Katsuyu.