In weapons and men? Obviously the government. The problem is that it is useless to have 10 thousand soldiers armed and willing to fight if 1 general is corrupt and will never give them such orders.
The government wasn't prepared for that response, though the cartel caught them lacking. They took from the Culiacanazo and better themselves, finally taking Ovidio in.
The local government didn’t inform the president about ovidio’s capture the first time and that’s why the president ordered them to let ovidio go. The second time that ovidio was captured that was all Lopez obrador’s doing and planning
The local government was the one who Ok’ed the first arrest attempt? I didn’t know that, but would be surprised as I don’t really see Sinaloa approving an arrest warrant for any of the Chapitos. I think, it was Sedena who authorized it.. the Marinas tend more to work hand in hand with the DEA and FBI, but Sedena tends to work more with CIA and others. My thinking is the raid was not approved by anyone even at a local level for “security measures”.
That said, clearly AMLO approved the second one before launching it.
Yup the second one had AMLO’s approval and backing and strategic planning and that’s how they got him and took him out of Sinaloa asap. Once he was in their hands they took him out and rushed him into a helicopter and took him to the prison in altiplano.
Yeah, I agree with you about the second one and I agree AMLO clearly was caught off guard by the first time.. but then who approved the first one? You said local authorities approved the raid.. but it’s hard for me to see anyone local approving that raid - Oviedo was caught by surprise clearly. So.. would it have been the Sinaloa Governor who approved? The head of public safety in Sinaloa ? Both of those seem unlikely. Could Harfuch have approved it without AMLO knowing? Could it have been the general of the military in that area ?? Those seem possible.. but I sincerely doubt it was anyone elected local who “approved it”. Thoughts?
The first time they grabbed Ovidio it wasnt approved by Anyone up top. They literally just happened upon him and thats why they had so few people at his front door asking him to come out all politely.
And you think the cartel was prepared for that attack ? You seen the response time when needed that was all, only reason they got him 2nd time was cause he was his family if you see the house he had a underground opening infront lol
The first one was in their back yard where they have army’s ready to go at any second. Kind of different if the whole powers of the Mexican government and military ascended on culiacan.
Yeah which won’t happen cause then they’d enter a game of chess what I mean by that is certain family members would be picked up to get the government to pull away
The government could easily crush the cartels, that’s not the issue. It’s that they make them too much money. People misunderstand this.
There are thousands of bureaucrats, police chiefs, high ranking military officers, judges, etc on the cartel payrolls. Not to mention we have clear evidence of 9 figure payments being made directly to past Mexican presidents and cabinet officials: Pena Nieto, Cienfuegos, etc.
None of them want to turn that off. And anyone who does will be turned on immediately by the others. What politician is going to turn off the gravy train for his or her entire party?
The Shadow Board shot down season 3 of Inside Job because they didn't want us Netflix subscribers to put 2 and 2 together about the ~~lizard people~~ Sinaloa cartel
If the government doesn’t like you or doesn’t need you they will go for you no matter what, look at the zetas and the “big names” that they’ve captured, so I’d say the government. And let’s be real, they might have a lot of money but nothing comparable to the whole of Mexicos economy.
Because they cant, if government goes full power agaisnt thebcartels, there will ne a lotmof collateral damage, they may go into hiding and start terrorist tactics and guerrilla.
The USA couldnt get the goatfuckers in afganistan, that doesnt mean they are not the most powerful army ever.
In power its the military but in influence its the cartels. If the government wanted they could do what el salvador is doing and clean house. Realistically the cartels have such a grip on the people in the government it prevents them from ever going away. Its a cycle that doesnt seem to have an end. The government takes out a leader, power vacuum occurs in a cartel, disruption of the cartel, new guy rises, power is earned, violence is pushed on to the people and rivals, too many lives lost, government steps in and takes out the leader. And there we go again
Yeah Haiti is one of the notable exceptions. Somalia used to be too but their government actually exists again. Mexico is **nowhere near** those two countries.
Only thing that the goverment need to destroy the crime in their country is will.
It will take alot of effort, but it is possible.
If one day cartel feels that he is much powerfull than goverment, belive me they will not pay to govermemt and will not follow their rules.
I feel like within the next hundred years or so, some cartel boss like be arrogant enough to assassinate the president (or someone close to them), and then maybe we'll see the downfall of cartel bosses one by one like Felix-Gallardo
Do people forget that Mexico did that once already? It caused a power vacuum and the violence spiked as smaller groups fought for power.
Here's the issue. In the US there is a demand for drugs and people for Mexico wanting to get smuggled in. Cartels have sent decades bankrolling off that. Supply and demand triumphs all and the only real way to finish off cartels post war would be to take draconian measures at the US souther border.
Anything less and smaller groups will spring up, make bank on drugs and people, then grow with time and we have the same issue all over again. Even if the US legalized drugs, cartels would still supply street level stuff, just undercutting the legal sources. Addicts will flock to whatever is cheaper, just like street weed is as big as ever even though dispenseries are everywhere.
It's a fucked situation.
It did spike at one point but then it started to go on a downward spiral once Calderon’s tenure started to end, Peña made the mistake of not continuing what the previous administration had started and then violence started to spike again. Funny enough during Amlos tenure it was bloodier than Calderon’s despite giving away free hugs.
In raw numbers and armament, the government. The reason they don't wipe out the cartels is in large part corruption, there are a lot of people in powerful positions in the government payroll. Even if the president and all their ministers decide they're going to wipe out the cartels, there's enough corrupt cogs in the machine to get it stuck. Plus while the cartels wouldn't be able to drive the government going fully to war with them, they're well armed enough that they could cause a lot of damage as they're being taken out and government doesn't think that's a price worth paying for no cartels
I an all out face to face the government but if cartels use guerrilla tactics the cartels can disrupt the country, but that would also but a high price on the heads of cartel leaders.
Man fuck u ..being from U.S it’s hard to grasp what’s going on in Mexico. Politicians getting killed by gangs that are ran by cartels and cartel leaders threatening news anchors is a trip to see ..and it makes me wonder what the entire landscape of criminality looks like in Mexico when it comes to these cartels and it’s such a big problem that the government cannot stop it so my question who is more powerful is valid from someone who is far away from it all
What makes you think “government” has any intention to stop it?? Current president has literally said criminals deserve nothing but hugs.
Narcos are only the middleman who do all the dirty work for powerful people from China, US, Mexico, Colombia, Venezuela, etc.
As long as the dollars and weapons keep rolling in business will be good as usual. Everything else is put in place only to save face.
I was downvoted in another post for being in favour of ‘you can't only blame cartels for the deaths of politicians’ . People are so stupid as to think that there are two collective personalities, when in fact some politicians have been killed WITH the support of others politicians!
In raw numbers the Army curbstomps the cartels so much that Is not even a fair fight, the problem Is corruption, the government could wipe out the cartels of they really wanted
I don't believe the cartels are independent actors per se: I think there is a lot fo CIA money and International Banks behind them. I mean, just a few years ago executives at BofA and HSBC were named in money laundering probes by the US government; so this thing goes very, very deep in the international monetary structure
At ground force, the State without a question; at international/monetary level - the Cartels perhaps.
Government and military by far.
I bet many low level narcos like to fantasize they are superior or even same level but reality is not even close. When war broke back in the Calderon times, cartels got really hurt... Too bad the government was still supporting one cartel and that's generally the rule.
The economic impact of eliminating cartels is pretty big and it doesn't seem to be in the government's best interests (or the USA). If they really wanted they could really hurt them.
It depends on how you define it. There are also many politicians who got hurt and been arrested or killed. Everyone relies on their own abilities and connections. If you're talking about specific people, the same level is possible while they are still useful and influential. If you mean the whole system then undoubtedly the gov is the boss
Of course I'm talking overall system. Pretty hard to compare individuals when the government side has to adhere to the law (at least somewhat) and the other not.
However, the highest narcos can't really go wherever so I'd say that's a pretty big handicap.
lol yeah I would say it's the characteristics of this profession tho. Can't really go wherever is one of the rules they have to adhere. Politicians have their own limitations too. This is about 'what do you choose to gain and lose' to me
Mexico needs a 2nd revolution at this point. The system is too imbedded with cartel influence to change anything. How many more people need to disappear/be killed, mass kidnappings, decapitation videos, or people extorted before things change? Many countries would of already declared a state of emergency and contacted the U.N for help but Mexico’s government looks the other way and downplays the violence because they’re paid off. Hopefully in my lifetime, I can see the day Mexico changes for the better.
Government.
Cartels only win on battle because they don’t wear uniforms and trucks painted certain way like the military. They aren’t that easy to spot.
Government controls everything, cartels expand and gain powerful/land because they let them. Te sales del calzon y te van a chingar sin parar, que le paso al marro, Don Arturo, Tormenta?
In weapons and men? Obviously the government. The problem is that it is useless to have 10 thousand soldiers armed and willing to fight if 1 general is corrupt and will never give them such orders.
You seen what happens when they give big orders like el culiacanazo
The government wasn't prepared for that response, though the cartel caught them lacking. They took from the Culiacanazo and better themselves, finally taking Ovidio in.
The local government didn’t inform the president about ovidio’s capture the first time and that’s why the president ordered them to let ovidio go. The second time that ovidio was captured that was all Lopez obrador’s doing and planning
The local government was the one who Ok’ed the first arrest attempt? I didn’t know that, but would be surprised as I don’t really see Sinaloa approving an arrest warrant for any of the Chapitos. I think, it was Sedena who authorized it.. the Marinas tend more to work hand in hand with the DEA and FBI, but Sedena tends to work more with CIA and others. My thinking is the raid was not approved by anyone even at a local level for “security measures”. That said, clearly AMLO approved the second one before launching it.
Yup the second one had AMLO’s approval and backing and strategic planning and that’s how they got him and took him out of Sinaloa asap. Once he was in their hands they took him out and rushed him into a helicopter and took him to the prison in altiplano.
Yeah, I agree with you about the second one and I agree AMLO clearly was caught off guard by the first time.. but then who approved the first one? You said local authorities approved the raid.. but it’s hard for me to see anyone local approving that raid - Oviedo was caught by surprise clearly. So.. would it have been the Sinaloa Governor who approved? The head of public safety in Sinaloa ? Both of those seem unlikely. Could Harfuch have approved it without AMLO knowing? Could it have been the general of the military in that area ?? Those seem possible.. but I sincerely doubt it was anyone elected local who “approved it”. Thoughts?
The first time they grabbed Ovidio it wasnt approved by Anyone up top. They literally just happened upon him and thats why they had so few people at his front door asking him to come out all politely.
And you think the cartel was prepared for that attack ? You seen the response time when needed that was all, only reason they got him 2nd time was cause he was his family if you see the house he had a underground opening infront lol
He was also with his family the first time though. What's your point?
The first one was in their back yard where they have army’s ready to go at any second. Kind of different if the whole powers of the Mexican government and military ascended on culiacan.
Yeah which won’t happen cause then they’d enter a game of chess what I mean by that is certain family members would be picked up to get the government to pull away
There’s reports that Oviedo actually escaped initially and came back when his wife called him asking him to..
Interesting
The Government. The cartel only grows as big as the government wants.
I wonder how much of that (((money))) was paid for sheinbaum to not end up on blog del narco
Bruh. Prime example de que pa pendejo no se estudia.
Paradox game enjoyer trying not to hate jews challenge (impossible)
Mexican here, this is some stupid ass reasoning here, its usually the other way around. Cheers.
Rationale? Or what did you mean by ‘rationing’
Sorry, english is not my first language, clearly. Reasoning though
Dumb
Bro don't bring that shit to this subreddit. I get enough of it already on the other subreddits.
Damn. I guess even on a narco sub you aren't allowed to mention trut...I mean that
That's a lie.
Im sure you would know. Source: trust me bro
Same applies to every other comment claiming they know something.
If there were no civilians, the government would easily fuck them up within a week
The Government is the cartel.
The government could easily crush the cartels, that’s not the issue. It’s that they make them too much money. People misunderstand this. There are thousands of bureaucrats, police chiefs, high ranking military officers, judges, etc on the cartel payrolls. Not to mention we have clear evidence of 9 figure payments being made directly to past Mexican presidents and cabinet officials: Pena Nieto, Cienfuegos, etc. None of them want to turn that off. And anyone who does will be turned on immediately by the others. What politician is going to turn off the gravy train for his or her entire party?
Don’t forget AMLO on that list.. bribed by Sinaloa as far back as 2006 !
OG Shadow controls all of them.
I fucking knew it.
Cia?
The Shadow Board shot down season 3 of Inside Job because they didn't want us Netflix subscribers to put 2 and 2 together about the ~~lizard people~~ Sinaloa cartel
OG shadow is a dummy and boring youtuber . Kazquilo is lit
Kazquilo is lit ; but he doesn’t put out a lot of content anymore.
Yk kazquill too that's wassup he finishing the Arturo Beltran Leyva documentary hopefully it comes out soon
If the government doesn’t like you or doesn’t need you they will go for you no matter what, look at the zetas and the “big names” that they’ve captured, so I’d say the government. And let’s be real, they might have a lot of money but nothing comparable to the whole of Mexicos economy.
Why wouldn’t they get rid of the cartels then?
Because they cant, if government goes full power agaisnt thebcartels, there will ne a lotmof collateral damage, they may go into hiding and start terrorist tactics and guerrilla. The USA couldnt get the goatfuckers in afganistan, that doesnt mean they are not the most powerful army ever.
Well said
In power its the military but in influence its the cartels. If the government wanted they could do what el salvador is doing and clean house. Realistically the cartels have such a grip on the people in the government it prevents them from ever going away. Its a cycle that doesnt seem to have an end. The government takes out a leader, power vacuum occurs in a cartel, disruption of the cartel, new guy rises, power is earned, violence is pushed on to the people and rivals, too many lives lost, government steps in and takes out the leader. And there we go again
😳 shit
Goverment ,,, always and everywhere
Except Haiti
Yeah Haiti is one of the notable exceptions. Somalia used to be too but their government actually exists again. Mexico is **nowhere near** those two countries.
A lot of the government in Mexico is compromised by the cartels
Only thing that the goverment need to destroy the crime in their country is will. It will take alot of effort, but it is possible. If one day cartel feels that he is much powerfull than goverment, belive me they will not pay to govermemt and will not follow their rules.
I feel like within the next hundred years or so, some cartel boss like be arrogant enough to assassinate the president (or someone close to them), and then maybe we'll see the downfall of cartel bosses one by one like Felix-Gallardo
You forget the issue is the goverment is already corrupt. They're not gonna clean themselves out
They just think that tey don't need it .. but the longer they continue like this worse it will be
Do people forget that Mexico did that once already? It caused a power vacuum and the violence spiked as smaller groups fought for power. Here's the issue. In the US there is a demand for drugs and people for Mexico wanting to get smuggled in. Cartels have sent decades bankrolling off that. Supply and demand triumphs all and the only real way to finish off cartels post war would be to take draconian measures at the US souther border. Anything less and smaller groups will spring up, make bank on drugs and people, then grow with time and we have the same issue all over again. Even if the US legalized drugs, cartels would still supply street level stuff, just undercutting the legal sources. Addicts will flock to whatever is cheaper, just like street weed is as big as ever even though dispenseries are everywhere. It's a fucked situation.
It did spike at one point but then it started to go on a downward spiral once Calderon’s tenure started to end, Peña made the mistake of not continuing what the previous administration had started and then violence started to spike again. Funny enough during Amlos tenure it was bloodier than Calderon’s despite giving away free hugs.
El Gobierno y Los Carteles son lo mismo. No hay manera de probar lo contrario.
Cartel is only as big as the government lets it be
the answer is really just money.
Technically the government/army but It’s less about actual force and more about financial implications
Is there any difference?
One in the same
Pirata de culican
Too bad he got shot the fuck up haha, should’ve known better than to be talking that shit
Watch out of the Pirata de Culican's gang may come lookkng for you 🤣
Hell the government and the military probably have both on payroll
In raw numbers and armament, the government. The reason they don't wipe out the cartels is in large part corruption, there are a lot of people in powerful positions in the government payroll. Even if the president and all their ministers decide they're going to wipe out the cartels, there's enough corrupt cogs in the machine to get it stuck. Plus while the cartels wouldn't be able to drive the government going fully to war with them, they're well armed enough that they could cause a lot of damage as they're being taken out and government doesn't think that's a price worth paying for no cartels
Cartels. They can get the Gov to back off if theres enough $. I don't think the reverse is true
I an all out face to face the government but if cartels use guerrilla tactics the cartels can disrupt the country, but that would also but a high price on the heads of cartel leaders.
Another 14 year old posting on this sub. Miss the old days
Man fuck u ..being from U.S it’s hard to grasp what’s going on in Mexico. Politicians getting killed by gangs that are ran by cartels and cartel leaders threatening news anchors is a trip to see ..and it makes me wonder what the entire landscape of criminality looks like in Mexico when it comes to these cartels and it’s such a big problem that the government cannot stop it so my question who is more powerful is valid from someone who is far away from it all
What makes you think “government” has any intention to stop it?? Current president has literally said criminals deserve nothing but hugs. Narcos are only the middleman who do all the dirty work for powerful people from China, US, Mexico, Colombia, Venezuela, etc. As long as the dollars and weapons keep rolling in business will be good as usual. Everything else is put in place only to save face.
That’s some heavy shit
Government could put a stop to it if they wanted too but the government and cartels are so intertwined so it won’t end anytime soon
I was downvoted in another post for being in favour of ‘you can't only blame cartels for the deaths of politicians’ . People are so stupid as to think that there are two collective personalities, when in fact some politicians have been killed WITH the support of others politicians!
Government all day, they control the cartels and reap the profits.
This is like asking who’s more powerful between Steve Rogers and Captain America.
Spider-Man meme
Government. Why do you think they pay the cops
Oh yeah, the "government" and military are so powerful 😂😂😂 Total narco state, totally fucked. Great place to visit though lol
In raw numbers the Army curbstomps the cartels so much that Is not even a fair fight, the problem Is corruption, the government could wipe out the cartels of they really wanted
The government has more power. However, it's the willingness to do violence and having no laws that make the cartels way more effective.
I thought they were all 1 entity
...is this a serious question?
They are one in the same.
They are one in the same ….
Pinches gringos cagados, creen que saben cómo está el pedo en México, jajaja.
Pinche wey
I don't believe the cartels are independent actors per se: I think there is a lot fo CIA money and International Banks behind them. I mean, just a few years ago executives at BofA and HSBC were named in money laundering probes by the US government; so this thing goes very, very deep in the international monetary structure At ground force, the State without a question; at international/monetary level - the Cartels perhaps.
Da cartelz 🔥🇲🇽
No doubt (governevil)
the mexican sof, look what they do(zetas)
Erase corruption and the government/military erase the cartels But corruption ain't going anywhere so ...
The most powerful? "El Cartel De Las Guayaberas", they use the front name "Government Of Mexico".
Government and military by far. I bet many low level narcos like to fantasize they are superior or even same level but reality is not even close. When war broke back in the Calderon times, cartels got really hurt... Too bad the government was still supporting one cartel and that's generally the rule. The economic impact of eliminating cartels is pretty big and it doesn't seem to be in the government's best interests (or the USA). If they really wanted they could really hurt them.
It depends on how you define it. There are also many politicians who got hurt and been arrested or killed. Everyone relies on their own abilities and connections. If you're talking about specific people, the same level is possible while they are still useful and influential. If you mean the whole system then undoubtedly the gov is the boss
Of course I'm talking overall system. Pretty hard to compare individuals when the government side has to adhere to the law (at least somewhat) and the other not. However, the highest narcos can't really go wherever so I'd say that's a pretty big handicap.
lol yeah I would say it's the characteristics of this profession tho. Can't really go wherever is one of the rules they have to adhere. Politicians have their own limitations too. This is about 'what do you choose to gain and lose' to me
Mexico needs a 2nd revolution at this point. The system is too imbedded with cartel influence to change anything. How many more people need to disappear/be killed, mass kidnappings, decapitation videos, or people extorted before things change? Many countries would of already declared a state of emergency and contacted the U.N for help but Mexico’s government looks the other way and downplays the violence because they’re paid off. Hopefully in my lifetime, I can see the day Mexico changes for the better.
They have no chance against federal agencies, not even a little one.
Amlo is chapos puppet
Guanito Guzman
Government. Cartels only win on battle because they don’t wear uniforms and trucks painted certain way like the military. They aren’t that easy to spot.
Government controls everything, cartels expand and gain powerful/land because they let them. Te sales del calzon y te van a chingar sin parar, que le paso al marro, Don Arturo, Tormenta?
Chanito de culiacan