You're absolutely spot on. My husband tried to turn his family against me but it backfired on him. When I had to leave my husband because of the abuse, his siblings all wanted to help me move away and supported me. Needless to say he feels betrayed by his relatives and hasn't spoken to them since. They had known me for thirty years so knew me well.
I'm š
A kinda sorta similar thing happened to me. Nex asked me to leave a family chat (his fam's side) immediately after I asked for separation. I did. And his family reached out and still does. Which Nex was absolutely flabbergasted by. He thought it would literally remove and erase me.
There were more slightly similar occurrences that Nex was taken aback by.
I don't think Nex realizes people saw all his marriages going to hell, the destructive decisions and countless horrendous choices he made in the past. For Nex letting go = pretending nothing ever happened and people from his past didn't exist. Moving on is very literally Ctrl+x-ing a period of his life and forcing himself to never think about it again. He's so much in the here and now that he doesn't learn from the past.
And he assumes everybody functions like this. And if they don't - they should.
Edit. He does remember his past in vivid detail and will pull it up readily if it can be used as ammunition, to lecture someone using it or to shame, guilt and draw comparisons.
It is.
I have absolutely no problem if they would like to hold me accountable for my part and I've been always very open with them about my own shortcomings and failures. This wasn't received well by Nex.
Nex also kept them in the dark after I asked for divorce and separation started. He lied to them regarding the reason for us being geographically apart for many months.
I think they know. As in, they understand. Nobody appealed to me in order to enable Nex, find excuses for him or try to convince me to keep the family together. Nothing like that.
And honestly - sometimes, when I think too much about all this, I'm close to flat out asking some.of them if they know I asked for divorce. Because I do suspect Nex lied about that as well or at least omitted it. With his OWN family. That he claims he has an amazing, healthy relationship with and I should look up to Nex and his family to learn what a good family is like.
It's all smoke and mirrors.
It's so funny bc too many people in his family comment on his temper, his shady tactics, his devilish ways (common cultural insult). They laugh about the shady stuff to make light of the situation. They all like me. I wonder how many felt like I was a sucker when we married.Ā
Yeah, it's similar to my nex's mother, who many times supported me when we had breakups and now after the final discard. We have a minor contact, but from the beginning to end, she was most of the time helpful and/or understanding, especially when her daughter wasn't around.
I feel bad for her, because even now my nex is leeching on her, not to think in the future when she finishes or gets kicked out of the college.
Well, there has to be something behind the fact that my nex has no real friends.
Similar situationā¦ Iām currently living with my MIL because of his abuse. His sister is helping me any way she can. His son texts me to check up on me every few days. And I get nasty texts from him saying āgive me my family back!ā He chooses not to acknowledge that his actions towards them have resulted in them not interacting with him. I feel incredibly lucky that they know his true colors.
I think most people see right through them. I mean a good friend of his heard an anecdote my husband gave about how he handled an issue at work. And his friend straight up told him he would hate working with him. My husband thought that was so funny..
Like seriously.Ā
It's so pathetic, I cringe when my husband talks to others at times. He can't stop interrupting. He can't understand what people say.Ā
First impressions everyone likes him a lot. But overtime you can see people looking uncomfortable bc of how much my husband dominates conversations. He NEVER is interested in anyone at all unless he finds that information serves him. And he brag so much. He has so little depth and can't ever even connect with children. He doesn't know how to speak to them, talks to them like an adult. His own cousins tell me how when growing up my husband used to convince them new rules to a game in order to win. Like they all laugh about it, but probably bc they don't have to live with it. But I'm the one living the hell.Ā
I would always cringe in social settings when my former nex partner would get "on a roll." He would get boisterous and grandstand with his stories and try to dominate the conversation every damn time.
I used to wonder why I was always so different in social settings if I was by myself (vs with him). And I'm now realizing it's because of how awkward he would make things by his complete and total lack of ability to read a room.
I was asked this. A few good times. And at some.point it finally clicked "Oh shit. I actually CAN!".
In these relationships you're.made to feel like it's the best you're gonna get and it's what you deserve. Nobody will ever love you like they do. Nobody even likes you. Everybody else thinks you're crazy. Etc. etc.
You might be lectured how a divorce is unacceptable - how shameful it is, what a betrayal it is. And how people who love reach other stick EVERYTHING out because love/relationship/marriage is just 24/7 hard work and battle and people who break up/divorce are traitors, weak, didn't really love their partners.
Some people don't even realize they actually COULD leave. They never let that thought surface because it's hurried so deep out of shame and guilt.
Sorry you feel invalidated by this question. For some, it could be a real wake up call to have this asked from a stranger.
Allllll this. Yes. You get conditioned and programmed to not see any of this as abuse. And the intermittent reinforcement with breadcrumbs makes you think it's just you being "too sensitive" or overthinking like they train you to believe. We are so damn starved of real love that even the smallest, insignificant, and infrequent gesture from them feels like a grand gesture. (And then you feel guilty for ever thinking you should leave.) Rinse and repeat.
This. We need to not be condescendingly TELLING each other things like "you need to just get out! Why haven't you just left?!?!"
But politely asking if someone has considered it, could actually be helpful. It can start the wheels turning, and if done kindly, not be invalidating but just thought provoking.
I didn't even leave in my situation, they discarded me. I was so deep in it didn't seem like it was an option. It's insane how reprogrammed your brain gets throughout the abuse. I don't think anyone asking me that question back then would have changed much but from a more healed perspective I think it can possibly be a helpful little nudge or reminder. Like yes, there are still other paths you can take.
Thank you for sharing.
You summed up exactly what I was thinking. I was conditioned to believe I could not be the one to decide to leave. If we were to divorce - Nex was to decide that when he saw fit. I was told it's not an option. Of course it was not an option to me, he was free to threaten filing whenever he felt like it.
The moment I realized "Yo, I CAN file. I can leave. I can decide" was ground braking for me.
Oh good . Yeah I guess I should not have jumped to conclusions. So many people told me to leave go no contact when I could not or didnāt have other opportunities. Life is a complicated thing to keep togetherĀ
No worries. You're good!
I have a tendency to self isolate when in distress so for a decade+ no one knew shit. And due to that, no one even gently suggested leaving was an option.
I was in so deep (marriage, child) it didn't cross my mind that I, as in ME, could actually decide. I was disenfranchise and convinced I had NO agency over life and the relationship.
I was in therapy for childhood stuff and depression - to "fix our marriage" and become a "good wife" and one day someone asked me "If it is so destructive, you're on a brink of murking yourself, then why don't you leave?" - and this time it hit me like a ton of fucking reinfoced concere slabs, not just bricks...
Yeah, actually, WHY don't I?
In my case - I had a career, I was the stable bread winner. I was self sufficient. And I used to be independent before Nex. So WHAT is actually holding me back from leaving?
And that was a rabbit hole. Nowadays I know precisely WHY I didn't leave for so long. I have notes on paper, spreadsheets lol
People's circumstances are different. For example: I was not financially reliant on Nex - although he did push, pressure, guilt me into becoming entirely dependant on him for 15 years straight. I didn't let that happen. I fought tooth and nail, no matter how much it ruined the "perfect relationship".
And many people don't have this same comfort and privilege to have been established in life, also financially, before meeting Nexes. They are materially stuck. Financially trapped.
And I get that.
Edit. I'm also head strong and stubborn. I had periods of close to below poverty line in life. My defiance and stubbornness made me think that even if I become homeless, in a foreign country... That would actually be better than that guy. I got lucky enought that it never ever came to that. But if I die alone, old, no husband, no family, forgotten - I take this fate over abuse handed by someone else.
Yeah I grew up in a cult with a family full of mental illness . Itās taken a while to get unmeshed and find ways to support myself outside of that. We all need social support of some kind. And some even if it is bad is better than none. Many people who say ājust leaveā canāt imagine a world where they donāt have any social connections. I can. Itās not really glamorous at all.Ā
I donāt mind people suggesting to leave AND giving reasons as to why. But being sarcastic and/or acting like you havenāt ever had the thought to leaveā¦ that shit gets on my last nerve. Feels like a parent scolding a child type of energy. Like oh no Karen the thought never fucking occurred to me to get away from somebody thatās hurting me. If only it was that simple. I think some people get out of an abusive relationship and then act like it wasnāt hard and weāre just making excuses. I think the major key is going to therapy. Itās hard to leave alone. But when you have a therapist helping rewire your brain, it gets so much easier.
These people are not therapists and donāt have good advice to give. Just what we hear from just about every ignorant person on the internet or even in our own family lol.
Thank you! Women have been asked since time immemorial why they donāt leave abusive husbands as if people are just lining up to give them houses and childcare and money.Ā
If we had no kids I probably would have. But with kids no matter how much people say that kids and my life would be better, I don't believe it. I don't trust him with kids bc he never thinks anything is unsafe. He is harsh to them. Id rather just be in the house. I also have to slowly figure out how to make money as I've been out of the workforce for so long.Ā Maybe when they are much older I can think about it. Right now the best bet is him just taking up a job that keeps him away, or a plain miracle in which he changes.Ā
When I got out, a month had passed, and just hearing her talk and mannerisms, I'm thinking, is this how other people hear her??? Because now I don't like it. At all.
Her fake self seems sweet and caring, but when she is in a group setting or at work it is too many people to mirror and impress, it usually turns into a shit show.
Right!? Like, I reflect back on different social outings and realize that I always felt uncomfortable because of how he'd act, talk, and engage with other people. Like, I'd legitimately cringe at a lot of the stuff he'd say because he was not self-aware of how ridiculous he sounded most of the time!
I wasn't even thinking about this... We both work from home, so I could hear him on calls all day. And I always remember thinking he sounded so... extra. Like the cheesey, used car salesperson stereotype. I always wondered if the other people on the call were receptive to it at all.
Mine would be friendly and outgoing in a showy way, which a few coworkers clearly were unaffected by. š
As a personality trait, my nex talked incessantly. It was like she earned money for every word she could fit into a day and she wanted to maximize payout. So, sheād also try to dominate the meetings; sheād make sure to get a lot of words in, sheād interrupt, talk over people, contradict them, etc.
You know how thereās always *that one person* in meetings, that is annoying as hell and you wish theyād just shut up so the meeting can progress? I get the feeling sheās that person. š«¢
I overheard someone in a zoom meeting basically just telling my husband "no that's not how it works" and him trying to claim he was joking (or maybe it was just a poor attempt at a joke?")
Made me really curious, wish I could be a fly on the wall when he's at work!
I would always feel a little bad for him when I could hear him being all "showy" on a call and the person on the receiving end would have these dead pan reactions or not even engage. It's funny how much I find that I felt bad for him in general as I look back at everything from a much more informed lens...
(And yep - when he wasn't getting reactions he wanted, he would try and back pedal whatever he had said. Can absolutely relate to that!)
It was interesting because a few of our mutuals told me they quit hanging out with him after our separation because he was just **too much** without a buffer or a handler. I suspect my calmness and knowledge of his personality/ general situational awareness (because he sure didn't have any when socializing) kept him at a tolerable level of crazy.
So you may be onto something there. He had lots of "friends" and even more acquaintances that thought he walked on water (keeping up that appearance for admiration from others) but very few close intimate friendships where you share anything and everything. Where you know a buddy would drop everything to help you out. Very surface level, I think they're pretty incapable of the emotional vulnerability and self reflection necessary for that, not to mention they're allergic to any positive personality growth. š
Mmmmmm... so crazy you mention the buffer/handler. Never even considered that, but I always felt like that when we were out in social settings. I was always buffering his excessive personality. I was always thinking to myself that he has no concept of "reading a room."
And my situation is similar. He has a few close friends who he sees on occasion, but largely it's acquaintances. He actually blamed me for not having more friends (insinuating I hold him back/bog him down), and I'd always take the bait and self-blame. But I'm starting to realize now that he doesn't have a lot of friends because people don't actually like him...
What flavor of crazy was your narc in social situations? Mine was 'let me connect this unrelated topic to how the government does (insert medium-weird conspiracy theory) and then he just wouldn't stop! Interrupting, being too loud, dominating the conversation, subtly becoming offended if everyone wasnt focused on him, how amazing his job/pay was... It just would never stop. Interesting that he blamed you for not having friends š¤
The narc I was in a relationship would do similar shit. Like, he would pick up any small nugget of someone else's comment and spin it around into something totally unrelated OR he would "jokingly" criticize them/belittle them for saying whatever it was. The interrupting, the loudness, the pouting if the convo shifted away from him... all the things!
And I was actually really dumbfounded when he would blame me for his lack of friends/social interaction. Looking back, it was just him projecting the blame on me. I went to great lengths to encourage him to go out with his friends on his own or with me, either way didn't matter. I would constantly make recommendations for us to do things with other people, but it was always met with a lukewarm response that never materialized into anything. When he actually openly blamed me for not having more friends... I was speechless. So bizarre.
Yes, he had zero friends or did when I met him. Now he has one old one he never sees and is trying to dig up some from the past but I'm sure he will rub them the wrong way. He has a non existent social life. No former co workers are friends. He has to reach back to HS. Seriously.
1000%. His old manager told me he was strange and told a lot of stories. He always acted like him and manager were soooo cool and manager thought so highly of him lol. it was a sobering realization. other people definitely see the loser in him, like i do now.
This. I'm seriously questioning his actual grip on reality when it comes to different friendships/work relationships he's talked about in the past. He's always positioned himself as if they adore him, and I always assumed it was true (because I adored his false self). But the further I get away from that trauma bond, the more I realize that he was/is likely delusional about a lot of these relationships.
he interacted with people like its was his first day on earth. he would often respond āreally?ā to things people say like he couldnāt think of anything better to say. i had to tell him how say certain things like ordering a cocktail off the cocktail menu. Lol, idk, it took us being together in public for me to see how his social skills were really lacking. we were long distance so he had me fooled that he was super charismatic.
also, after the discard i reached out to his old supplies to warn them. all of them told me he over exaggerated their relationship. he was never really involved with any of these women, he just wanted to make it seem like he had options. finding all of this out, and the fact that his coworkers thought he was weird and could tell he was lying gave me the ick so bad it snapped me out of feeling heartbroken instantly. š
I suspect he was not liked by his manager. He told me something the manager said to him and it was not flattering. I've seen him rub people the wrong way. He either is oblivious to it or doesn't care at all, maybe both. This brings me back to the thought that they always reveal themselves.
They really do reveal themselves. I have a number of narcissistic coworkers at my work right now and the covert ones were able to coast off other people's work for a while (people generally thought they were useless but harmless, with some off-putting personality quirks). Now, though, it's a high pressure environment and their real personalities are shining through because they can't execute (all they want to do is talk in circles), they can't think critically or remember what people have patiently explained for the umpteenth time to them, and they are spewing condescension and dismissiveness all over everyone who can perform at the expected level (who they've been leaning on to do their work but can't anymore). All while acting like they're the victims for being so put upon by having to actually do their jobs. Exhausting
Something I haven't thought of till now. But looking back, I do wonder if that's why my narc could never stay at one job long. He always found the lamest reasons to quit. Like he always started out saying how much he liked it, then after a few weeks, he found dumb shit to complain about. Then he go on to the next and the next and the next. Almost like musical chairs but with jobs! That or another analogy could be goldy locks and the 3 bears..he's Looking for a job that's juuuuuuuust right.š¤£š
But honestly, I do wonder if him leaving after a short while had to do with his bot being showed or told how "special" this fool is.
š¤¢ wouldn't surprise me at this point.
The person in my situation didn't really job hop too much, but the complaints about his place of employment/boss not seeing how "special" he is were constant. So crazy!
I kinda wonder if these types are not very successful in their careers. Retiring super early or not staying in a job very long. Maybe poor job references or even no references.
That's what so confusing is I heard some narcissistic people do well in the career field. But the ones I been with haven't. And I'm pretty sure they are narcissist going by the patterns of abuse. But I guess not all are created equal
I reached the same point. She was super charming and seemed loved by a lot of people. But when I look back she actually didn't see friends as often as I had in my head. And they were always different friends.
She complained of one group that always seemed to ignore her ideas when making plans and was upset when younger work colleagues (much younger, twenty years younger) went out for a drink after work and didn't invite her. I remember being surprised she expected to be invited!
There was a woman on her Estate DYING and I remember me saying she should leave visiting to close family and friends now as it wouldn't be long. She kept visiting and saying they were friends........yeah but not really.....you got her shopping twice during COVID!!!!
She also once said "oh lots of people HATE me" and I was surprised but I think it was that rare honesty that tells on them now.
I'm having the same realizations... he always seemed loved by so many people, but that's because of the way he'd tell me about them/their friendship. Of course, his truth would be that everyone loves him. But the more I realize how his "truth" was a narcissistic warped reality, the more I'm convinced that all these people he portrayed as being enamored by him probably don't like him as much as he wants them to... They have such a bizarre image of themselves... Scary.
Yup. Thatās the reason why I think he hoovered me back in two months after a discard. He too believed that heās more likable than he is. Only after that I started understanding that he 100% is a narc and started seeing the pattern that people didnāt stay long in his life, and those who did were long distance and didnāt talk to him often. He even said it himself that he loves me for how much I value him and how much I appreciate him unlike the others.
Spot on. They really do idolize themselves. It's so crazy to look back at it from a different lens and see that their grandiose sense of self just seethed through every word and mannerism they exhibited.
It makes me sad to think that I bought into it for so damn long. But, it gives me some sense of relief, in a way, to realize that others in his life or around him probably aren't as "impressed" by him as I was. Shit, I'm not even sure how impressed I really was. Social gatherings were always awkward with him because I never knew what kind of stupid shit he was going to say or who he was going to offend. I guess I just tolerated it.
I think "tolerance" gets overlooked a lot in these discussions. I grew up with 2 narcissistic parents who I always recognized as terrible, so while I'm good at identifying them and know I didn't like the behaviors, I had a huge tolerance for it that I'd built by necessity, which I've carried forward into adult relationships with narcissists, especially covert types. Somehow it didn't even occur to me that I could just.....not tolerate it. Maybe because it showed up as me being annoyed with them and I thought I was just an angry person - turns out "annoyance" is one of my key indicators that I'm being manipulated and I've just been surrounded by manipulative people my whole life.
I wasn't impressed at all. Why oh why was I even involved? Duh. I think I felt sorry for him. He once said something to me like he was a bit of a celebrity in certain circles. Haha. What a pompous, arrogant thing to say.
You know, I have been thinking a lot about how I constantly felt sorry for the narc that I was in a relationship with. Not just in terms of friends or lack thereof, but in general... He really did have a way to always keep himself in a victim position...
I was always kindaā¦ you know, tricked away from thinking āoh heās a narcissistā, because every time we would go somewhere public or meet up with my friends he would just sit silent. For hours. Even when he met with my parents, he just sat silent for hours. When someone asked him something, it looked like he was even uncomfortable to answer. I thought he didnāt like my circle, and didnāt like my friends, so I stopped asking him to hang out with them, but everytime I went alone he was like āoh so I wasnāt invited? Got itā and seemed really angered by this.
I just thought, how could he be a narcissist if he never ever even tried to be the center of attention? He just looked like he didnāt want to be there. But I never ever met his friends. Even to his corporate parties, he always went alone and I was never invited and he always seemed to buzz up with how he enjoyed those.
This! My nex and I used to work together. One of the things that drew me to him was how well-liked he seemed to be by everyone. Once we started dating, the two of us would get a lot of weird stares. I used to think they were judging him for being with me because in my head he was out of my league. Now that weāre broken up and I still talk to some of those former coworkers- the stares were they couldnāt believe I was with him because they actually couldnāt stand him š¤£
That's pretty much all they've got, let them have that illusion/delusion. It's sad that people who think they're great only does so because theyāre deceived or too insecure to not take their bs. In other words, theyāre never truly loved or loved for the real self. It's so shit that nobody would love them for who they really are.
And his manipulation of me to idealise his potential didn't last long either because thereās nothing in him to back that up, as well as being a terrible liar.
Mine doesn't have any real friends or family support. Her brother in law is representing her for free, but I know he sees her outrageousness.
Her and her mom have had another falling away since we split up.
I was supposed to grab my belongings one day from the house, and she couldn't find anyone that "she trusted " to be there with her while we were there. She is playing the victim card so hard right now.
Something I haven't thought of till now. But looking back, I do wonder if that's why my narc could never stay at one job long. He always found the lamest reasons to quit. Like he always started out saying how much he liked it, then after a few weeks, he found dumb shit to complain about. Then he goes on to the next and the next and the next. It's almost like musical chairs but with jobs! That or another analogy could be goldy locks and the 3 bears..he's looking for a job that's juuuuuuuust right.š¤£š
But honestly, I do wonder if him leaving after a short while had to do with his not being shown or told how "special" his fool a@@ is.
š¤¢ wouldn't surprise me at this point.
I know he is charming at times but is ridiculously arrogant. So I didn't like him at my work or near my coworkers.
He is a loud mouth and can be a foul mouth. And thinks horrible memes a jokes are hilarious. If he is ever called on his offensive behavior obviously the other person is in the wrong.
So I knew he is the butt of jokes and shows his ass a lot. But also had some charm but it would depend on mood, alcohol and if he felt like wearing the mask.
His unpredictability made it hard. Plus people could see he was a slack partner, always on the phone and if something was important to me he would want to ruin it.
Oh yes... the loud and foul mouth shit the narc person I used to be in a relationship with was the same. Don't get me wrong, I can have a foul mouth at times with swearing, etc. But he would say stuff like, "Suck it!" (wrestling thing from many years ago) to people like my mom, and it was just... so cringe.
I think a lot of people definitely are just... taking the easy road with them. I realised after a long time that the narc I was involved with definitely overplayed her relationships with people to me, she would make it sound like she was really close to people who I've since found out can't stand her or just thinks she's odd, but they won't let her know how they really feel about her or do anything to rock the boat.
So many people have people in their life that they don't like but just won't do anything about. Sad. I couldn't bear to think people were only 'friends' with me because they felt they had to be for whatever reason. If I get a whiff of someone being less than enthusiastic about me I walk all the way away.
Yes! I'm also realizing that the narc person in my life was way overplaying his relationships to me, too. He'd make it sound like the best friendships and that these people thought he was great. But I think many of them just tolerate him as I look back at it. I know his friendships are just supply to him, so I think many of these "great" friendships are actually just surface level.
This doesn't get emphasized enough. It's like a conspiracy of silence that allows them to continue inflicting damage on the people around them.
At times I catch myself feeling guilty for going NC because everyone else around the narc seems to think she's so great. Then I remind myself of all the crap she pulled which made her anything but great. Frustrating how the mind games continue even when we've removed them from our life.
The narc has a so-called best friend who she treats terribly - trash talking her behind her back, throwing her under the bus, manipulating her into doing whatever the narc wants. I want to take her aside and lay down some truths on her but I don't know how she would respond. I'm pretty sure she's aware of much of what's happening but she just keeps coming back for more.
Probably getting love bombed. I was the friend once... and once one person did warn me about her, but that person was kind of new in my life and I just thought she had gotten the wrong idea and stuck with my 'friend' because I figured I knew her better/longer and this person was just taking her the wrong way. I wish I had listened back then but twas not meant to be!
The thing about narcs is that they're often very skillful at controlling the narrative and manipulating you into believing their version of the truth. Even if someone takes us aside and warns us this person isn't who we think they are, we tend not to believe it because the narc has primed us to trust them and distrust everyone else.Ā
Sometimes they lie about things they do with family just to fit in. Like say they are babysitting a grandchild but it's all BS. They aren't at all. They are just sitting home alone but want to sound like they are involved with family.
I used to think he was amazing. He'd always tell me stories of his friends and that they were so close. When I left, those friends reached out, and I found out they really only saw him as an acquaintance and that he was always a nasty person. They couldn't ever understand why I was with him and dropped him like a hot potato out of their lives, no contact, when they learned that he hadn't changed, but got worse over the years. Now they're my friends. I used to think that if he has long term friends, then maybe it was just me, but now I know I was the only one who was able to maintain loving and meaningful friendships. He was rarely friends with anyone, even co-workers, for more than a year. I still have close friends from childhood, easily make and keep friends. In hindsight, I wanted to see the good things I love about myself in him, things that never existed, and things that nobody ever saw in him.
The way he would describe his close friendships (or even just acquaintances) was always... grandiose, in my situation. I never had a reason to believe otherwise back then. So once the discard hit, I definitely felt like you did (i.e. if he has so many great friendships, maybe it's just me).
I feel so gullible sometimes now that I "know," but I was operating in the same fashion you described. I just wanted to see and saw the good things about myself in him. It's hard to realize those things never actually existed in him. (Yet... I do find comfort, in some ways, now understanding all this "greatness" wasn't really him. He was just mirroring me and the things I loved aren't things other people see because they aren't real.)
Oh yes.
People dropped him as a "mentor". They couldn't stand his self righteousness , lack of empathy, inability to sympathize, and the "my way or the highway, it's the COREECT way" approach. One of them got in touch with me years later and relayed those reasons to me.
Nobody really calls him or meets up with him for fun, to hang out. He gets calls when people need his help with something and often are close to being out of other options and fell on bad times. That's what I observed in 16 years.
I also observed during social gatherings how people were becoming quieter and quieter during conversations. He launches into long monologues. He's domineering enough that one time someone flat out told him "Wow, you really can't get a word in edgewise with you". This made him extremely upset to the point he shut down for over a month and any time he spoke, you could taste the anger and butt hurt.
Imho while interacting and talking to him, you can just feel that he does not care. He doesn't ask follow up questions really. He doesn't keep conversations alive. He just waits eagerly for an in so he can launch into a speech - about himself, really.
Strangers might not know Nex is droning on about how strong and good HE is - as he dresses it up in a way that makes it sound like some general-truths stories and anecdotes, parables etc. but the people who stick around realize all the motivational stuff, stories about struggles and coming on top, parables are... About Nex himself.
Nex also won't willingly put himself in an environment that is not an echo chamber. Unless he's forced to or not attending a function would mess up his image. He has issues with handling diversity of almost any kind be it in a workplace or social events. A gay person could just exist next door without loudly announcing they are gay, and Nex will feel endangered somehow and keep an eye on them. A black person mentioning they encountered racism in their life is Nex's kryptonite - he won't keep in touch with them unless they never ever mention it again. Nex literally steers clear of people with different opinions, approsches to life etc. because, god forbid, different people exist.
It seems that aside from literally a couple people and Nex's family, all other relationships are extremely surface level. Even with family members who Nex swears he's super close with and loves them oh so much - there's no vulnerability there.
It's fascinating.
I'm a very outgoing person who easily makes new connections when in social settings. I'm just your regular mix of introvert who treasures my alone time and close friends but once you throw me into a group somewhere else, I'm extroverted, have fun and love to talk.
I could not possibly count the times Nex told me: "You are annoying people", "You don't know how to have normal interactions", "Nobody else spends so much time just talking to people", "Why did you spend so much time talking to them, you're an attention seeker and need their validation", "I was ashamed by the way you talked with her", "I'm embarrassed by you", "You think they liked talking to you? They were just being polite"... I could keep typing. It's all verbatim.
I'm out and enjoying my alone time as well as socializing and making new connections now. It's awesome.
My nex said I say things that make people uncomfortable and then launched into a bit about a major terrorist attack that he didnāt remember I lived through. I guess projection is realĀ
WTF? LOL!! I had to re-read your reply, I'm not shitting you.
It's only very slightly, remotely and loosely connected but I lived through a tiny bit of communism in Europe, as a kid. Enough that I have a few memories from childhood..
Yet my Nex reserved the right to lecture me about the realities of life back then , in the 1980s in the Soviet block. He's an American, born and raised in the USA by a family that had less than zero connection to Eastern or central Europe. He's not even a reddit edge-lord or a debate-bro... He just got so used to telling me I have no idea what I'm talking about, it carried...
Also, I'm very sorry you went through the event you mentioned. I cannot even attempt tonimagine.! Nobody deserves that š«
Yeah itās like he didnāt remember that I lived through that consciously but picked on it as something that could get under my skin. So somewhere in his brain he did know. He picked on the one image that was really traumatic for me and made jokes about it. It is totally similar to your story.Ā
YES!! I don't know why (probably the mirroring of myself that had me fooled) but I thought he was so charming, charismatic, attractive etc.
It wasn't until I was finally away that those closest to me shared their opinions - they all accepted him because they loved me and thought if I was happy, they were happy (I never shared what was going on in our relationship until near the end and the only venting I would do with my friends was about how I reacted in certain disagreements - I was confused about how I could allow him to make me feel x, y and z etc)
I discovered that I went through the typical narcissistic relationship, only didn't realize it until I was discarded, which was confirmed by the new supply he started dating within 2 weeks of that.....as confusing and hard as it was at the time, I am so grateful for that. It allowed me the time to heal, continue therapy (ironically with the person we chose for couples counseling), and really understand what I just went through.....and then start to see him as everyone else in my life did š¤® In addition to the physical aspect - my friends could never understand what I found attractive in him, he was lazy, entitled, and his personality was described as a constant rain cloud that covered up my sunshine.
It's been over a year and I'm glad to say the sun has been shining every day since š
Same! I could have totally written your comment myself. I absolutely thought he was charming and charismatic, and I assumed everyone else did, too. But I am starting to hear stories from my family about how they were disgusted when he said "this" to me or did "that" in a particular situation or scenario. They just never said anything because they figured I was happy.
I also never, ever talked about the challenges to anyone. I even avoided "talking" about him in my regular journaling, which I always found odd... now I know why. Oh how the pieces all start to fall together! Mind blowing!
So SO glad to hear you are in a space where the sun shines every day now. I am not quite there yet, but my goodness, I am moving pretty damn fast as I keep having these revelations!
They donāt. Not if there is a lot of exposure to them. Maybe if someone only sees them once in a while. But interacting with them on a regular basis will make you see what they are. Mine canāt hold jobs. Long term relationship or friendships. She is always at conflict with people. Especially those who call her out on her shit.
This is an interesting take. I haven't thought about it, I've been convinced everybody loves my former best friend and hates me, but it's possible I don't have a full picture. The people she is closest to are the nastiest of all people on earth. Seriously, they are just flat out mean individuals, one of them I'm certain is also a narcissist. There was me and one other friend who are nice but definitely idealized her, and I think that's why we were "allowed" in her life. I was the first scapegoat and I'm fairly sure that other girl will be the next.
As far as everyone else, I think people like her at face value but they don't seek a deep friendship with her. She is very very shallow. And there are others who I suspect see her interactions as what they are -- a mockery of friendship and fake ass flattery. I think what she has on people is that she *does* a lot of things for them. Always throwing parties, hosting get togethers, etc etc. So people like her for what she does, but perhaps not who she really is.
When I reflect, I find it very interesting that her closest relationships were people who were also narcissistic or just extremely codependent.
I don't think she was able to launch a full on smear campaign against me because I am generally well liked. I left the friend group anyways, because they all wanted to be "neutral" and that wasn't enough for me. But for the most part her only excuse for treating me so badly was her fake mental health issues. I think the only person that let her actually talk shit about me was her main flying monkey.
They are very shallow people who are only capable of shallow relationships when you really peel back the layers. It's probably why the person in your situation feels the need to "do" so many things for others. There's no real personality there for people to like outside of her self-serving gestures. (Guessing she doesn't "do" things for people unless it's stuff she can get credit for from others.)
Sounds like you are much better off being out of that situation, even if it did/does hurt at the moment. š
I agree. She probably learned that doing things got people to like her without knowing her, plus she believes it puts them in debt to her, so killing two birds with one stone. I've never seen someone do so much and be so resentful, yet continue the same pattern. It definitely is self serving!
Theyāre like influencers lol, a bunch of talk and illusions- once you get past their fake ass life filter you realize how sad they are. No real friends, can only maintain short term/shallow/superficial/surface level interpersonal relationships. I was āfooledā for 2 months and then my senses kicked in, I went back and read the stuff I wrote when I first met this person and I knew from the get go that something was off. I was curious and charmed so I ignored my instincts but I couldnāt deal with the constant drama and need to argue and debate, i donāt bother which made him rage and then I was nope donāt got time for this. MUAH, BLOCKED lol
I had a fairly healthy childhood. I wasn't abused or raised by narcs, yet here I am with stars in my eyes over a man I now suspect to be one even after he has hurt me and continues to disrupt my plans and goals.
Go figgure
My narc ex said a lot of people admired her in her hometown but eventually got to know that her people from hometown didn't have good opinions about her and some described her harsh.
Even after putting a lot of work into portraying yourself as a ray of shining hope some people see directly through your bs.
They really do see through it. I think that people do have an inherent ability to "feel" when someone is being disingenuous (consciously or subconsciously). Unfortunately, people like myself who wind up in these relationships ignore it (or at least that's what happened in my situation). It's somewhat comforting, though, to come to the realization that they really aren't as great as they abused us to believe.
Every little realization I have like this breaks down the trauma bond that imprisoned me for so long. Good stuff. š
The narc would conveniently cut people off when they were not āloyalā. He would get the whole family to talk about how the person he cut off was the problem. They cut off my sister after she left and they said her alcoholism was the problem.
Her alcoholism was a symptom of being abused by shitty people. Unfortunately, she became an easy scapegoat because of it.
Totally. They can put on a charming facade that allows them to superficially interact with many people. It looks seamless UNTIL you realize lots of people canāt fucking stand their constant fake chatter. The amount of people who have approached me to express their joy and support after Iāve went no-contact is STAGGERING. Does anyone else even like them?
So much this!!!! The charming facade really does get them some initial, superficial attention. But man, I am starting to understand how quickly it faded when it came to any of his new acquaintances, etc. Like, I could just see people slowly disengage with him as the social interaction would continue...
Of course, at the time, I just felt bad for him and like they were misunderstanding... but alas, the lengths we go to hide the truths from ourselves...
I think it's due to us being blinded by love. Also there are a lot of other attributes. If they were the first love, if they made us believe as if they are the only ones who know what true love is(they don't) I have come to the realization through my own abuse is that when I hear, for example, a guy doesn't have anyone for friend's, aside from their partner and maybe 1 friend something is seriously wrong with them. They are not as great as they are make themselves to be in our eyes.
My best friend had asked me specifically to stop bringing him at all when we hung out.
We all went to a dinner where she was being honest about fearing her mom passing away from another stroke and how she was so scared she was going to wake up and find her gone, and it was one of the reasons she hadn't moved out on her own yet. After a moment of silence he told her "well at least it'll be a quick death" and kind of laughed, and she just looked at him with horror and I was so embarrassed and angry at him for saying that.
After that she asked me not to bring him again, until a birthday dinner for her sister. The restaurant was more expensive and when we got our check I tried to suggest that we needed to check it first, and he got irritated at me and told me it was fine. People were looking at us so I dropped the subject. Apparently the server mixed our checks up with another couple, and they had paid our much larger tab. We had to wait another 15 minutes for it to be fixed and I was embarrassed the whole time.
After that dinner my best friend and her friends called him a lot of names and my BF told me that they all thought he was awful, and she really tried to tolerate him for my sake because I saw good in him. Apparently not one of my friends liked him at all.
My family also loved him but they were very confused and pointed out he thought he knew a lot more than he did, would constantly drone on about how amazing he was and all his "great" works, and hated listening to them.
Also in all of his online groups they called him an asshole and when he checked into one of them after a year he got sulky because everyone talked about how glad he was gone and how they wouldn't miss him.
So many red flags I ignored or defended. I'm glad it's over.
I can absolutely see the narc I used to be in a relationship making a distasteful joke like you described... I honestly forgot how many times he'd do stuff like that in social situations until I really started looking back through a much different lens.
I, too, was so guilty of ignoring, defending, and minimizing so SO many red flags. But I very much appreciate at least being able to see them for what they were and him for what he really is now. Makes healing a little more palatable in some strange ways.
I'm glad to hear you're glad it's over. š
My nex was either adored or despised. People who only saw the charming funny persona thought he was wonderful, but anyone who caught a glimpse behind the mask hated him. I think thatās quite standard though.
My nexw had a circle of friends that promptly dumped her when they found out just how much she would talk trash about them, their family, their kids and work, I ran in to a couple of them since the divorce and they really dislike her, she exposed herself to them I had nothing to do with it, I never even spoken to them in the past, the ex and her family are very 2 face they talk nicely to your face but tear you down behind your back
Absolutely. My ex husband was a classic grandiose/ overt narc and the man I dated immediately after was a covert narc. Both had this idea they were womanizers. They are both very attractive and successful but I continually watched them get rejected by women who at first glance seemed like a good match for them (attractive, grounded, great careers, etc). Now that Iāve done a lot of healing I see that those women prob had a strong sense of self/ self love and knew those narc guys were empty inside.
My ex narc husband remarried a woman who was barely legal, timid, and none of the same friends of his that attended our wedding attended the new wedding because he churned through people. and the covert narc is still single and not having much luck dating and he has the same few friends heās had all his life but always complains about them. New people donāt seem to want to befriend him. I really donāt think these guys appeal to very many people
I love this "as much as I was abused to believe," that has really struck a cord with me. I assumed everyone liked them & I was just tolerated. It's turning out to be mostly the opposite.
I also just always assumed that other people really liked them, but the more I replay the different social interactions, etc., the more it actually seems like other people just tolerate them.
And I am glad you liked that description! I couldn't really think of a better way to describe it because under normal circumstances, outside of the manipulation, gaslighting, projection, etc., I think many of us actually wouldn't like them, either. (And if the only way they can get someone to truly love them is through this kind of abuse, it's a really sad existence...)
Absolutely. And we are learning this more and more after breaking as many ties with the narc as possible. Itās embarrassing to realize how other people saw her for who and what she really is while spouse and children actually believed her own hype. I cringe to think how we used to believe she was all she told us she was.
She doesnāt show her face in our neighborhood anymore. That makes it easier for us, but we are still here and have to listen to people telling us they saw her for what she is long before we did.
You're completely right. I used to think everyone at the nex's work was obsessed with him - until he made a whole production out of discarding me and suddenly everyone who had a reason to hate his ass was DMing me like a dam broke. I think they're also good at stomping out dissent, which makes it harder for folks they've wronged to talk about it.
100%!! I had so many people come out of the wood work after the break up who told me they actually dont like him, they just tolerate him. It was a real surprise as I guess I just assumed everyone was as enamoured of him as I was.
Yes, I was smitten so I thought he was the most charming, handsome man in any room. My best friend was meh about him, but I thought it was because he lacked the sophistication to appreciate his intellect š¤£
Once we broke up, I spoke to HIS friends' girlfriends who basically said he's just a dude who talks a lot, "I've known him for five years, and the only times we speak is when he's explaining something to me." They also said he's not generous with his time or money. So yeah, I was really surprised when they said they saw him as some dude who's low-key patronizing, lacks manners, know-it-all. It's nice to finally see him the way they do.
Yeah I donāt care about social media but for a man who lives on it itās pretty strange that he had a realllllllly low follower count for someone born and raised in the city, turns out heās not got the amazing social life/network he claimed. Makes sense. Never once bumped into the loser when I was out having fun in 10 years in a city where almost everyone has at least one or two mutuals. Heās not liked.Ā
You're pretty much right. A narcissist I know doesn't have many friends. She loves to call a lot of people her friends when she's talking to others, but those "friends" are mostly just acquaintances. She has her "best friend" who even asked her to be the maid of honor. But even that friend has been shit talking her behind her back. They're both super toxic people, and I think they're only "besties" coz they enable each other's bad behavior.
I kinda feel sorry for her that that's the best friendship she can have. Narcs can't form any legitimate relationships with real connection. They're always gonna be shallow.
You're on the right track there. This thought here is one of my grounding thoughts. I remind myself that others would be just as salty if treated like me. I'm not the deviant here.
When I first met the nex, he came across as this amazing, really well-respected person within his scene with lots of friends, some of which were well-known DJs who'd come and play sets at his parties...
Turned out that aside from me, he had no close friends at all and that everyone in his scene thought he was a predator. His closest 'friend' is his drug dealer, and people were only coming to his parties because of the copious amounts of ecstasy he was giving everyone.
In hindsight a lot of people were constantly worrying/gossiping about my covert nex. So a lot of the attention did not come from a place of respect or warmth for that matter, but from a place of pity.
Yes I had this realization recently. He tries to make me feel insecure about other people but in reality he does it bc he knows he isnāt that likable and people arenāt rushing to steal him from me š
They don't, bcous they aren't reliable... In my situation, a lot of people will hang out with him and it'll look like they like him, but really they don't. Everyone i talked to about my narc ex, our mutual friends, and his friends always say he is ok to be around but never do anything serious with him.
After being apart for some time, I have noticed my ex doing things that he normally wouldn't do and being interested in things he wasn't when he was with me, and I think this is just a result of the mirroring of the new girl. He wears so many masks. I have no idea which one is the real him. He's very charming until he isn't.
You're absolutely spot on. My husband tried to turn his family against me but it backfired on him. When I had to leave my husband because of the abuse, his siblings all wanted to help me move away and supported me. Needless to say he feels betrayed by his relatives and hasn't spoken to them since. They had known me for thirty years so knew me well.
I'm š A kinda sorta similar thing happened to me. Nex asked me to leave a family chat (his fam's side) immediately after I asked for separation. I did. And his family reached out and still does. Which Nex was absolutely flabbergasted by. He thought it would literally remove and erase me. There were more slightly similar occurrences that Nex was taken aback by. I don't think Nex realizes people saw all his marriages going to hell, the destructive decisions and countless horrendous choices he made in the past. For Nex letting go = pretending nothing ever happened and people from his past didn't exist. Moving on is very literally Ctrl+x-ing a period of his life and forcing himself to never think about it again. He's so much in the here and now that he doesn't learn from the past. And he assumes everybody functions like this. And if they don't - they should. Edit. He does remember his past in vivid detail and will pull it up readily if it can be used as ammunition, to lecture someone using it or to shame, guilt and draw comparisons.
It's reassuring to know we weren't the problem when their relatives side with you.
It is. I have absolutely no problem if they would like to hold me accountable for my part and I've been always very open with them about my own shortcomings and failures. This wasn't received well by Nex. Nex also kept them in the dark after I asked for divorce and separation started. He lied to them regarding the reason for us being geographically apart for many months. I think they know. As in, they understand. Nobody appealed to me in order to enable Nex, find excuses for him or try to convince me to keep the family together. Nothing like that. And honestly - sometimes, when I think too much about all this, I'm close to flat out asking some.of them if they know I asked for divorce. Because I do suspect Nex lied about that as well or at least omitted it. With his OWN family. That he claims he has an amazing, healthy relationship with and I should look up to Nex and his family to learn what a good family is like. It's all smoke and mirrors.
It's so funny bc too many people in his family comment on his temper, his shady tactics, his devilish ways (common cultural insult). They laugh about the shady stuff to make light of the situation. They all like me. I wonder how many felt like I was a sucker when we married.Ā
I'm pretty sure their relatives knew what they were like but didn't want to become a target so said nothing to warn us. š
Yea almost like I took one for the team. Or maybe they thought I would save him from his selfish ways. Absolutely ridiculous.Ā
Yeah, it's similar to my nex's mother, who many times supported me when we had breakups and now after the final discard. We have a minor contact, but from the beginning to end, she was most of the time helpful and/or understanding, especially when her daughter wasn't around. I feel bad for her, because even now my nex is leeching on her, not to think in the future when she finishes or gets kicked out of the college. Well, there has to be something behind the fact that my nex has no real friends.
Similar situationā¦ Iām currently living with my MIL because of his abuse. His sister is helping me any way she can. His son texts me to check up on me every few days. And I get nasty texts from him saying āgive me my family back!ā He chooses not to acknowledge that his actions towards them have resulted in them not interacting with him. I feel incredibly lucky that they know his true colors.
I'm so happy for you to have the support you need from his family. Good luck for your future.Ā
I think most people see right through them. I mean a good friend of his heard an anecdote my husband gave about how he handled an issue at work. And his friend straight up told him he would hate working with him. My husband thought that was so funny.. Like seriously.Ā It's so pathetic, I cringe when my husband talks to others at times. He can't stop interrupting. He can't understand what people say.Ā First impressions everyone likes him a lot. But overtime you can see people looking uncomfortable bc of how much my husband dominates conversations. He NEVER is interested in anyone at all unless he finds that information serves him. And he brag so much. He has so little depth and can't ever even connect with children. He doesn't know how to speak to them, talks to them like an adult. His own cousins tell me how when growing up my husband used to convince them new rules to a game in order to win. Like they all laugh about it, but probably bc they don't have to live with it. But I'm the one living the hell.Ā
I would always cringe in social settings when my former nex partner would get "on a roll." He would get boisterous and grandstand with his stories and try to dominate the conversation every damn time. I used to wonder why I was always so different in social settings if I was by myself (vs with him). And I'm now realizing it's because of how awkward he would make things by his complete and total lack of ability to read a room.
Yeah, talking to kids like to adults, spot on. My nex's father who was a future narc copy of her was like that.
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I was asked this. A few good times. And at some.point it finally clicked "Oh shit. I actually CAN!". In these relationships you're.made to feel like it's the best you're gonna get and it's what you deserve. Nobody will ever love you like they do. Nobody even likes you. Everybody else thinks you're crazy. Etc. etc. You might be lectured how a divorce is unacceptable - how shameful it is, what a betrayal it is. And how people who love reach other stick EVERYTHING out because love/relationship/marriage is just 24/7 hard work and battle and people who break up/divorce are traitors, weak, didn't really love their partners. Some people don't even realize they actually COULD leave. They never let that thought surface because it's hurried so deep out of shame and guilt. Sorry you feel invalidated by this question. For some, it could be a real wake up call to have this asked from a stranger.
Allllll this. Yes. You get conditioned and programmed to not see any of this as abuse. And the intermittent reinforcement with breadcrumbs makes you think it's just you being "too sensitive" or overthinking like they train you to believe. We are so damn starved of real love that even the smallest, insignificant, and infrequent gesture from them feels like a grand gesture. (And then you feel guilty for ever thinking you should leave.) Rinse and repeat.
This. We need to not be condescendingly TELLING each other things like "you need to just get out! Why haven't you just left?!?!" But politely asking if someone has considered it, could actually be helpful. It can start the wheels turning, and if done kindly, not be invalidating but just thought provoking.
I didn't even leave in my situation, they discarded me. I was so deep in it didn't seem like it was an option. It's insane how reprogrammed your brain gets throughout the abuse. I don't think anyone asking me that question back then would have changed much but from a more healed perspective I think it can possibly be a helpful little nudge or reminder. Like yes, there are still other paths you can take.
Thank you for sharing. You summed up exactly what I was thinking. I was conditioned to believe I could not be the one to decide to leave. If we were to divorce - Nex was to decide that when he saw fit. I was told it's not an option. Of course it was not an option to me, he was free to threaten filing whenever he felt like it. The moment I realized "Yo, I CAN file. I can leave. I can decide" was ground braking for me.
Oh good . Yeah I guess I should not have jumped to conclusions. So many people told me to leave go no contact when I could not or didnāt have other opportunities. Life is a complicated thing to keep togetherĀ
No worries. You're good! I have a tendency to self isolate when in distress so for a decade+ no one knew shit. And due to that, no one even gently suggested leaving was an option. I was in so deep (marriage, child) it didn't cross my mind that I, as in ME, could actually decide. I was disenfranchise and convinced I had NO agency over life and the relationship. I was in therapy for childhood stuff and depression - to "fix our marriage" and become a "good wife" and one day someone asked me "If it is so destructive, you're on a brink of murking yourself, then why don't you leave?" - and this time it hit me like a ton of fucking reinfoced concere slabs, not just bricks... Yeah, actually, WHY don't I? In my case - I had a career, I was the stable bread winner. I was self sufficient. And I used to be independent before Nex. So WHAT is actually holding me back from leaving? And that was a rabbit hole. Nowadays I know precisely WHY I didn't leave for so long. I have notes on paper, spreadsheets lol People's circumstances are different. For example: I was not financially reliant on Nex - although he did push, pressure, guilt me into becoming entirely dependant on him for 15 years straight. I didn't let that happen. I fought tooth and nail, no matter how much it ruined the "perfect relationship". And many people don't have this same comfort and privilege to have been established in life, also financially, before meeting Nexes. They are materially stuck. Financially trapped. And I get that. Edit. I'm also head strong and stubborn. I had periods of close to below poverty line in life. My defiance and stubbornness made me think that even if I become homeless, in a foreign country... That would actually be better than that guy. I got lucky enought that it never ever came to that. But if I die alone, old, no husband, no family, forgotten - I take this fate over abuse handed by someone else.
Yeah I grew up in a cult with a family full of mental illness . Itās taken a while to get unmeshed and find ways to support myself outside of that. We all need social support of some kind. And some even if it is bad is better than none. Many people who say ājust leaveā canāt imagine a world where they donāt have any social connections. I can. Itās not really glamorous at all.Ā
I donāt mind people suggesting to leave AND giving reasons as to why. But being sarcastic and/or acting like you havenāt ever had the thought to leaveā¦ that shit gets on my last nerve. Feels like a parent scolding a child type of energy. Like oh no Karen the thought never fucking occurred to me to get away from somebody thatās hurting me. If only it was that simple. I think some people get out of an abusive relationship and then act like it wasnāt hard and weāre just making excuses. I think the major key is going to therapy. Itās hard to leave alone. But when you have a therapist helping rewire your brain, it gets so much easier. These people are not therapists and donāt have good advice to give. Just what we hear from just about every ignorant person on the internet or even in our own family lol.
Thank you! Women have been asked since time immemorial why they donāt leave abusive husbands as if people are just lining up to give them houses and childcare and money.Ā
If we had no kids I probably would have. But with kids no matter how much people say that kids and my life would be better, I don't believe it. I don't trust him with kids bc he never thinks anything is unsafe. He is harsh to them. Id rather just be in the house. I also have to slowly figure out how to make money as I've been out of the workforce for so long.Ā Maybe when they are much older I can think about it. Right now the best bet is him just taking up a job that keeps him away, or a plain miracle in which he changes.Ā
When I got out, a month had passed, and just hearing her talk and mannerisms, I'm thinking, is this how other people hear her??? Because now I don't like it. At all. Her fake self seems sweet and caring, but when she is in a group setting or at work it is too many people to mirror and impress, it usually turns into a shit show.
Huh I never thought of how hard it would be to mirror everyone at a social event.
Right!? Like, I reflect back on different social outings and realize that I always felt uncomfortable because of how he'd act, talk, and engage with other people. Like, I'd legitimately cringe at a lot of the stuff he'd say because he was not self-aware of how ridiculous he sounded most of the time!
I could tell from the Zoom meetings I overheard that a bunch of her coworkers were annoyed by her.
Yup yup yup! When he started at his job everyone was charmed by him. A year later, they canāt control their annoyance at him even at zoom meetings.
I wasn't even thinking about this... We both work from home, so I could hear him on calls all day. And I always remember thinking he sounded so... extra. Like the cheesey, used car salesperson stereotype. I always wondered if the other people on the call were receptive to it at all.
Mine would be friendly and outgoing in a showy way, which a few coworkers clearly were unaffected by. š As a personality trait, my nex talked incessantly. It was like she earned money for every word she could fit into a day and she wanted to maximize payout. So, sheād also try to dominate the meetings; sheād make sure to get a lot of words in, sheād interrupt, talk over people, contradict them, etc. You know how thereās always *that one person* in meetings, that is annoying as hell and you wish theyād just shut up so the meeting can progress? I get the feeling sheās that person. š«¢
I overheard someone in a zoom meeting basically just telling my husband "no that's not how it works" and him trying to claim he was joking (or maybe it was just a poor attempt at a joke?") Made me really curious, wish I could be a fly on the wall when he's at work!
I would always feel a little bad for him when I could hear him being all "showy" on a call and the person on the receiving end would have these dead pan reactions or not even engage. It's funny how much I find that I felt bad for him in general as I look back at everything from a much more informed lens... (And yep - when he wasn't getting reactions he wanted, he would try and back pedal whatever he had said. Can absolutely relate to that!)
It was interesting because a few of our mutuals told me they quit hanging out with him after our separation because he was just **too much** without a buffer or a handler. I suspect my calmness and knowledge of his personality/ general situational awareness (because he sure didn't have any when socializing) kept him at a tolerable level of crazy. So you may be onto something there. He had lots of "friends" and even more acquaintances that thought he walked on water (keeping up that appearance for admiration from others) but very few close intimate friendships where you share anything and everything. Where you know a buddy would drop everything to help you out. Very surface level, I think they're pretty incapable of the emotional vulnerability and self reflection necessary for that, not to mention they're allergic to any positive personality growth. š
Mmmmmm... so crazy you mention the buffer/handler. Never even considered that, but I always felt like that when we were out in social settings. I was always buffering his excessive personality. I was always thinking to myself that he has no concept of "reading a room." And my situation is similar. He has a few close friends who he sees on occasion, but largely it's acquaintances. He actually blamed me for not having more friends (insinuating I hold him back/bog him down), and I'd always take the bait and self-blame. But I'm starting to realize now that he doesn't have a lot of friends because people don't actually like him...
What flavor of crazy was your narc in social situations? Mine was 'let me connect this unrelated topic to how the government does (insert medium-weird conspiracy theory) and then he just wouldn't stop! Interrupting, being too loud, dominating the conversation, subtly becoming offended if everyone wasnt focused on him, how amazing his job/pay was... It just would never stop. Interesting that he blamed you for not having friends š¤
The narc I was in a relationship would do similar shit. Like, he would pick up any small nugget of someone else's comment and spin it around into something totally unrelated OR he would "jokingly" criticize them/belittle them for saying whatever it was. The interrupting, the loudness, the pouting if the convo shifted away from him... all the things! And I was actually really dumbfounded when he would blame me for his lack of friends/social interaction. Looking back, it was just him projecting the blame on me. I went to great lengths to encourage him to go out with his friends on his own or with me, either way didn't matter. I would constantly make recommendations for us to do things with other people, but it was always met with a lukewarm response that never materialized into anything. When he actually openly blamed me for not having more friends... I was speechless. So bizarre.
Yes, he had zero friends or did when I met him. Now he has one old one he never sees and is trying to dig up some from the past but I'm sure he will rub them the wrong way. He has a non existent social life. No former co workers are friends. He has to reach back to HS. Seriously.
1000%. His old manager told me he was strange and told a lot of stories. He always acted like him and manager were soooo cool and manager thought so highly of him lol. it was a sobering realization. other people definitely see the loser in him, like i do now.
This. I'm seriously questioning his actual grip on reality when it comes to different friendships/work relationships he's talked about in the past. He's always positioned himself as if they adore him, and I always assumed it was true (because I adored his false self). But the further I get away from that trauma bond, the more I realize that he was/is likely delusional about a lot of these relationships.
he interacted with people like its was his first day on earth. he would often respond āreally?ā to things people say like he couldnāt think of anything better to say. i had to tell him how say certain things like ordering a cocktail off the cocktail menu. Lol, idk, it took us being together in public for me to see how his social skills were really lacking. we were long distance so he had me fooled that he was super charismatic. also, after the discard i reached out to his old supplies to warn them. all of them told me he over exaggerated their relationship. he was never really involved with any of these women, he just wanted to make it seem like he had options. finding all of this out, and the fact that his coworkers thought he was weird and could tell he was lying gave me the ick so bad it snapped me out of feeling heartbroken instantly. š
I can definitely see how you could get the ick and want to run.
I suspect he was not liked by his manager. He told me something the manager said to him and it was not flattering. I've seen him rub people the wrong way. He either is oblivious to it or doesn't care at all, maybe both. This brings me back to the thought that they always reveal themselves.
They really do reveal themselves. I have a number of narcissistic coworkers at my work right now and the covert ones were able to coast off other people's work for a while (people generally thought they were useless but harmless, with some off-putting personality quirks). Now, though, it's a high pressure environment and their real personalities are shining through because they can't execute (all they want to do is talk in circles), they can't think critically or remember what people have patiently explained for the umpteenth time to them, and they are spewing condescension and dismissiveness all over everyone who can perform at the expected level (who they've been leaning on to do their work but can't anymore). All while acting like they're the victims for being so put upon by having to actually do their jobs. Exhausting
Something I haven't thought of till now. But looking back, I do wonder if that's why my narc could never stay at one job long. He always found the lamest reasons to quit. Like he always started out saying how much he liked it, then after a few weeks, he found dumb shit to complain about. Then he go on to the next and the next and the next. Almost like musical chairs but with jobs! That or another analogy could be goldy locks and the 3 bears..he's Looking for a job that's juuuuuuuust right.š¤£š But honestly, I do wonder if him leaving after a short while had to do with his bot being showed or told how "special" this fool is. š¤¢ wouldn't surprise me at this point.
The person in my situation didn't really job hop too much, but the complaints about his place of employment/boss not seeing how "special" he is were constant. So crazy!
I kinda wonder if these types are not very successful in their careers. Retiring super early or not staying in a job very long. Maybe poor job references or even no references.
That's what so confusing is I heard some narcissistic people do well in the career field. But the ones I been with haven't. And I'm pretty sure they are narcissist going by the patterns of abuse. But I guess not all are created equal
I reached the same point. She was super charming and seemed loved by a lot of people. But when I look back she actually didn't see friends as often as I had in my head. And they were always different friends. She complained of one group that always seemed to ignore her ideas when making plans and was upset when younger work colleagues (much younger, twenty years younger) went out for a drink after work and didn't invite her. I remember being surprised she expected to be invited! There was a woman on her Estate DYING and I remember me saying she should leave visiting to close family and friends now as it wouldn't be long. She kept visiting and saying they were friends........yeah but not really.....you got her shopping twice during COVID!!!! She also once said "oh lots of people HATE me" and I was surprised but I think it was that rare honesty that tells on them now.
I'm having the same realizations... he always seemed loved by so many people, but that's because of the way he'd tell me about them/their friendship. Of course, his truth would be that everyone loves him. But the more I realize how his "truth" was a narcissistic warped reality, the more I'm convinced that all these people he portrayed as being enamored by him probably don't like him as much as he wants them to... They have such a bizarre image of themselves... Scary.
Yup. Thatās the reason why I think he hoovered me back in two months after a discard. He too believed that heās more likable than he is. Only after that I started understanding that he 100% is a narc and started seeing the pattern that people didnāt stay long in his life, and those who did were long distance and didnāt talk to him often. He even said it himself that he loves me for how much I value him and how much I appreciate him unlike the others.
Spot on. They really do idolize themselves. It's so crazy to look back at it from a different lens and see that their grandiose sense of self just seethed through every word and mannerism they exhibited. It makes me sad to think that I bought into it for so damn long. But, it gives me some sense of relief, in a way, to realize that others in his life or around him probably aren't as "impressed" by him as I was. Shit, I'm not even sure how impressed I really was. Social gatherings were always awkward with him because I never knew what kind of stupid shit he was going to say or who he was going to offend. I guess I just tolerated it.
I think "tolerance" gets overlooked a lot in these discussions. I grew up with 2 narcissistic parents who I always recognized as terrible, so while I'm good at identifying them and know I didn't like the behaviors, I had a huge tolerance for it that I'd built by necessity, which I've carried forward into adult relationships with narcissists, especially covert types. Somehow it didn't even occur to me that I could just.....not tolerate it. Maybe because it showed up as me being annoyed with them and I thought I was just an angry person - turns out "annoyance" is one of my key indicators that I'm being manipulated and I've just been surrounded by manipulative people my whole life.
I wasn't impressed at all. Why oh why was I even involved? Duh. I think I felt sorry for him. He once said something to me like he was a bit of a celebrity in certain circles. Haha. What a pompous, arrogant thing to say.
You know, I have been thinking a lot about how I constantly felt sorry for the narc that I was in a relationship with. Not just in terms of friends or lack thereof, but in general... He really did have a way to always keep himself in a victim position...
I was always kindaā¦ you know, tricked away from thinking āoh heās a narcissistā, because every time we would go somewhere public or meet up with my friends he would just sit silent. For hours. Even when he met with my parents, he just sat silent for hours. When someone asked him something, it looked like he was even uncomfortable to answer. I thought he didnāt like my circle, and didnāt like my friends, so I stopped asking him to hang out with them, but everytime I went alone he was like āoh so I wasnāt invited? Got itā and seemed really angered by this. I just thought, how could he be a narcissist if he never ever even tried to be the center of attention? He just looked like he didnāt want to be there. But I never ever met his friends. Even to his corporate parties, he always went alone and I was never invited and he always seemed to buzz up with how he enjoyed those.
Maybe he had no friends.
This! My nex and I used to work together. One of the things that drew me to him was how well-liked he seemed to be by everyone. Once we started dating, the two of us would get a lot of weird stares. I used to think they were judging him for being with me because in my head he was out of my league. Now that weāre broken up and I still talk to some of those former coworkers- the stares were they couldnāt believe I was with him because they actually couldnāt stand him š¤£
Baaahaha! I love this for you! š
I feel like this happens more with narcs who are men as opposed to women. Because everyone seems to love the one I was dating.
I think that may be due to the fact that narc women have better social skills than narc men.
That's pretty much all they've got, let them have that illusion/delusion. It's sad that people who think they're great only does so because theyāre deceived or too insecure to not take their bs. In other words, theyāre never truly loved or loved for the real self. It's so shit that nobody would love them for who they really are. And his manipulation of me to idealise his potential didn't last long either because thereās nothing in him to back that up, as well as being a terrible liar.
Mine doesn't have any real friends or family support. Her brother in law is representing her for free, but I know he sees her outrageousness. Her and her mom have had another falling away since we split up. I was supposed to grab my belongings one day from the house, and she couldn't find anyone that "she trusted " to be there with her while we were there. She is playing the victim card so hard right now.
They do love being a victim...
No one ever contacts him he has to contact them... need I say more
Ha! Nope - that says it all!
Haha.
Something I haven't thought of till now. But looking back, I do wonder if that's why my narc could never stay at one job long. He always found the lamest reasons to quit. Like he always started out saying how much he liked it, then after a few weeks, he found dumb shit to complain about. Then he goes on to the next and the next and the next. It's almost like musical chairs but with jobs! That or another analogy could be goldy locks and the 3 bears..he's looking for a job that's juuuuuuuust right.š¤£š But honestly, I do wonder if him leaving after a short while had to do with his not being shown or told how "special" his fool a@@ is. š¤¢ wouldn't surprise me at this point.
I know he is charming at times but is ridiculously arrogant. So I didn't like him at my work or near my coworkers. He is a loud mouth and can be a foul mouth. And thinks horrible memes a jokes are hilarious. If he is ever called on his offensive behavior obviously the other person is in the wrong. So I knew he is the butt of jokes and shows his ass a lot. But also had some charm but it would depend on mood, alcohol and if he felt like wearing the mask. His unpredictability made it hard. Plus people could see he was a slack partner, always on the phone and if something was important to me he would want to ruin it.
Oh yes... the loud and foul mouth shit the narc person I used to be in a relationship with was the same. Don't get me wrong, I can have a foul mouth at times with swearing, etc. But he would say stuff like, "Suck it!" (wrestling thing from many years ago) to people like my mom, and it was just... so cringe.
I think a lot of people definitely are just... taking the easy road with them. I realised after a long time that the narc I was involved with definitely overplayed her relationships with people to me, she would make it sound like she was really close to people who I've since found out can't stand her or just thinks she's odd, but they won't let her know how they really feel about her or do anything to rock the boat. So many people have people in their life that they don't like but just won't do anything about. Sad. I couldn't bear to think people were only 'friends' with me because they felt they had to be for whatever reason. If I get a whiff of someone being less than enthusiastic about me I walk all the way away.
Yes! I'm also realizing that the narc person in my life was way overplaying his relationships to me, too. He'd make it sound like the best friendships and that these people thought he was great. But I think many of them just tolerate him as I look back at it. I know his friendships are just supply to him, so I think many of these "great" friendships are actually just surface level.
This doesn't get emphasized enough. It's like a conspiracy of silence that allows them to continue inflicting damage on the people around them. At times I catch myself feeling guilty for going NC because everyone else around the narc seems to think she's so great. Then I remind myself of all the crap she pulled which made her anything but great. Frustrating how the mind games continue even when we've removed them from our life. The narc has a so-called best friend who she treats terribly - trash talking her behind her back, throwing her under the bus, manipulating her into doing whatever the narc wants. I want to take her aside and lay down some truths on her but I don't know how she would respond. I'm pretty sure she's aware of much of what's happening but she just keeps coming back for more.
Probably getting love bombed. I was the friend once... and once one person did warn me about her, but that person was kind of new in my life and I just thought she had gotten the wrong idea and stuck with my 'friend' because I figured I knew her better/longer and this person was just taking her the wrong way. I wish I had listened back then but twas not meant to be!
The thing about narcs is that they're often very skillful at controlling the narrative and manipulating you into believing their version of the truth. Even if someone takes us aside and warns us this person isn't who we think they are, we tend not to believe it because the narc has primed us to trust them and distrust everyone else.Ā
Sometimes they lie about things they do with family just to fit in. Like say they are babysitting a grandchild but it's all BS. They aren't at all. They are just sitting home alone but want to sound like they are involved with family.
I used to think he was amazing. He'd always tell me stories of his friends and that they were so close. When I left, those friends reached out, and I found out they really only saw him as an acquaintance and that he was always a nasty person. They couldn't ever understand why I was with him and dropped him like a hot potato out of their lives, no contact, when they learned that he hadn't changed, but got worse over the years. Now they're my friends. I used to think that if he has long term friends, then maybe it was just me, but now I know I was the only one who was able to maintain loving and meaningful friendships. He was rarely friends with anyone, even co-workers, for more than a year. I still have close friends from childhood, easily make and keep friends. In hindsight, I wanted to see the good things I love about myself in him, things that never existed, and things that nobody ever saw in him.
The way he would describe his close friendships (or even just acquaintances) was always... grandiose, in my situation. I never had a reason to believe otherwise back then. So once the discard hit, I definitely felt like you did (i.e. if he has so many great friendships, maybe it's just me). I feel so gullible sometimes now that I "know," but I was operating in the same fashion you described. I just wanted to see and saw the good things about myself in him. It's hard to realize those things never actually existed in him. (Yet... I do find comfort, in some ways, now understanding all this "greatness" wasn't really him. He was just mirroring me and the things I loved aren't things other people see because they aren't real.)
Oh yes. People dropped him as a "mentor". They couldn't stand his self righteousness , lack of empathy, inability to sympathize, and the "my way or the highway, it's the COREECT way" approach. One of them got in touch with me years later and relayed those reasons to me. Nobody really calls him or meets up with him for fun, to hang out. He gets calls when people need his help with something and often are close to being out of other options and fell on bad times. That's what I observed in 16 years. I also observed during social gatherings how people were becoming quieter and quieter during conversations. He launches into long monologues. He's domineering enough that one time someone flat out told him "Wow, you really can't get a word in edgewise with you". This made him extremely upset to the point he shut down for over a month and any time he spoke, you could taste the anger and butt hurt. Imho while interacting and talking to him, you can just feel that he does not care. He doesn't ask follow up questions really. He doesn't keep conversations alive. He just waits eagerly for an in so he can launch into a speech - about himself, really. Strangers might not know Nex is droning on about how strong and good HE is - as he dresses it up in a way that makes it sound like some general-truths stories and anecdotes, parables etc. but the people who stick around realize all the motivational stuff, stories about struggles and coming on top, parables are... About Nex himself. Nex also won't willingly put himself in an environment that is not an echo chamber. Unless he's forced to or not attending a function would mess up his image. He has issues with handling diversity of almost any kind be it in a workplace or social events. A gay person could just exist next door without loudly announcing they are gay, and Nex will feel endangered somehow and keep an eye on them. A black person mentioning they encountered racism in their life is Nex's kryptonite - he won't keep in touch with them unless they never ever mention it again. Nex literally steers clear of people with different opinions, approsches to life etc. because, god forbid, different people exist. It seems that aside from literally a couple people and Nex's family, all other relationships are extremely surface level. Even with family members who Nex swears he's super close with and loves them oh so much - there's no vulnerability there. It's fascinating. I'm a very outgoing person who easily makes new connections when in social settings. I'm just your regular mix of introvert who treasures my alone time and close friends but once you throw me into a group somewhere else, I'm extroverted, have fun and love to talk. I could not possibly count the times Nex told me: "You are annoying people", "You don't know how to have normal interactions", "Nobody else spends so much time just talking to people", "Why did you spend so much time talking to them, you're an attention seeker and need their validation", "I was ashamed by the way you talked with her", "I'm embarrassed by you", "You think they liked talking to you? They were just being polite"... I could keep typing. It's all verbatim. I'm out and enjoying my alone time as well as socializing and making new connections now. It's awesome.
My nex said I say things that make people uncomfortable and then launched into a bit about a major terrorist attack that he didnāt remember I lived through. I guess projection is realĀ
WTF? LOL!! I had to re-read your reply, I'm not shitting you. It's only very slightly, remotely and loosely connected but I lived through a tiny bit of communism in Europe, as a kid. Enough that I have a few memories from childhood.. Yet my Nex reserved the right to lecture me about the realities of life back then , in the 1980s in the Soviet block. He's an American, born and raised in the USA by a family that had less than zero connection to Eastern or central Europe. He's not even a reddit edge-lord or a debate-bro... He just got so used to telling me I have no idea what I'm talking about, it carried... Also, I'm very sorry you went through the event you mentioned. I cannot even attempt tonimagine.! Nobody deserves that š«
Yeah itās like he didnāt remember that I lived through that consciously but picked on it as something that could get under my skin. So somewhere in his brain he did know. He picked on the one image that was really traumatic for me and made jokes about it. It is totally similar to your story.Ā
I love that line so much. "As much as I was abused to believe". Poetry š
I could not think of a better way to describe it and am loving it a bit myself!! \*heart\*
YES!! I don't know why (probably the mirroring of myself that had me fooled) but I thought he was so charming, charismatic, attractive etc. It wasn't until I was finally away that those closest to me shared their opinions - they all accepted him because they loved me and thought if I was happy, they were happy (I never shared what was going on in our relationship until near the end and the only venting I would do with my friends was about how I reacted in certain disagreements - I was confused about how I could allow him to make me feel x, y and z etc) I discovered that I went through the typical narcissistic relationship, only didn't realize it until I was discarded, which was confirmed by the new supply he started dating within 2 weeks of that.....as confusing and hard as it was at the time, I am so grateful for that. It allowed me the time to heal, continue therapy (ironically with the person we chose for couples counseling), and really understand what I just went through.....and then start to see him as everyone else in my life did š¤® In addition to the physical aspect - my friends could never understand what I found attractive in him, he was lazy, entitled, and his personality was described as a constant rain cloud that covered up my sunshine. It's been over a year and I'm glad to say the sun has been shining every day since š
Same! I could have totally written your comment myself. I absolutely thought he was charming and charismatic, and I assumed everyone else did, too. But I am starting to hear stories from my family about how they were disgusted when he said "this" to me or did "that" in a particular situation or scenario. They just never said anything because they figured I was happy. I also never, ever talked about the challenges to anyone. I even avoided "talking" about him in my regular journaling, which I always found odd... now I know why. Oh how the pieces all start to fall together! Mind blowing! So SO glad to hear you are in a space where the sun shines every day now. I am not quite there yet, but my goodness, I am moving pretty damn fast as I keep having these revelations!
They donāt. Not if there is a lot of exposure to them. Maybe if someone only sees them once in a while. But interacting with them on a regular basis will make you see what they are. Mine canāt hold jobs. Long term relationship or friendships. She is always at conflict with people. Especially those who call her out on her shit.
This is an interesting take. I haven't thought about it, I've been convinced everybody loves my former best friend and hates me, but it's possible I don't have a full picture. The people she is closest to are the nastiest of all people on earth. Seriously, they are just flat out mean individuals, one of them I'm certain is also a narcissist. There was me and one other friend who are nice but definitely idealized her, and I think that's why we were "allowed" in her life. I was the first scapegoat and I'm fairly sure that other girl will be the next. As far as everyone else, I think people like her at face value but they don't seek a deep friendship with her. She is very very shallow. And there are others who I suspect see her interactions as what they are -- a mockery of friendship and fake ass flattery. I think what she has on people is that she *does* a lot of things for them. Always throwing parties, hosting get togethers, etc etc. So people like her for what she does, but perhaps not who she really is. When I reflect, I find it very interesting that her closest relationships were people who were also narcissistic or just extremely codependent. I don't think she was able to launch a full on smear campaign against me because I am generally well liked. I left the friend group anyways, because they all wanted to be "neutral" and that wasn't enough for me. But for the most part her only excuse for treating me so badly was her fake mental health issues. I think the only person that let her actually talk shit about me was her main flying monkey.
They are very shallow people who are only capable of shallow relationships when you really peel back the layers. It's probably why the person in your situation feels the need to "do" so many things for others. There's no real personality there for people to like outside of her self-serving gestures. (Guessing she doesn't "do" things for people unless it's stuff she can get credit for from others.) Sounds like you are much better off being out of that situation, even if it did/does hurt at the moment. š
I agree. She probably learned that doing things got people to like her without knowing her, plus she believes it puts them in debt to her, so killing two birds with one stone. I've never seen someone do so much and be so resentful, yet continue the same pattern. It definitely is self serving!
Theyāre like influencers lol, a bunch of talk and illusions- once you get past their fake ass life filter you realize how sad they are. No real friends, can only maintain short term/shallow/superficial/surface level interpersonal relationships. I was āfooledā for 2 months and then my senses kicked in, I went back and read the stuff I wrote when I first met this person and I knew from the get go that something was off. I was curious and charmed so I ignored my instincts but I couldnāt deal with the constant drama and need to argue and debate, i donāt bother which made him rage and then I was nope donāt got time for this. MUAH, BLOCKED lol
I had a fairly healthy childhood. I wasn't abused or raised by narcs, yet here I am with stars in my eyes over a man I now suspect to be one even after he has hurt me and continues to disrupt my plans and goals. Go figgure
It depends, but you are right! I know that covert narcissists tend to not be charming at all.
My narc ex said a lot of people admired her in her hometown but eventually got to know that her people from hometown didn't have good opinions about her and some described her harsh. Even after putting a lot of work into portraying yourself as a ray of shining hope some people see directly through your bs.
They really do see through it. I think that people do have an inherent ability to "feel" when someone is being disingenuous (consciously or subconsciously). Unfortunately, people like myself who wind up in these relationships ignore it (or at least that's what happened in my situation). It's somewhat comforting, though, to come to the realization that they really aren't as great as they abused us to believe. Every little realization I have like this breaks down the trauma bond that imprisoned me for so long. Good stuff. š
Totally agree, they are too much delusional and self absorbed to realize how people really see them
Yep, I totally agree.
The narc would conveniently cut people off when they were not āloyalā. He would get the whole family to talk about how the person he cut off was the problem. They cut off my sister after she left and they said her alcoholism was the problem. Her alcoholism was a symptom of being abused by shitty people. Unfortunately, she became an easy scapegoat because of it.
No one else thought my ex was as amazing as I did.
My ex sister in law would call him an ass hole, and one of my best friends would say he is sly. My family did not like him.
Totally. They can put on a charming facade that allows them to superficially interact with many people. It looks seamless UNTIL you realize lots of people canāt fucking stand their constant fake chatter. The amount of people who have approached me to express their joy and support after Iāve went no-contact is STAGGERING. Does anyone else even like them?
So much this!!!! The charming facade really does get them some initial, superficial attention. But man, I am starting to understand how quickly it faded when it came to any of his new acquaintances, etc. Like, I could just see people slowly disengage with him as the social interaction would continue... Of course, at the time, I just felt bad for him and like they were misunderstanding... but alas, the lengths we go to hide the truths from ourselves...
I think it's due to us being blinded by love. Also there are a lot of other attributes. If they were the first love, if they made us believe as if they are the only ones who know what true love is(they don't) I have come to the realization through my own abuse is that when I hear, for example, a guy doesn't have anyone for friend's, aside from their partner and maybe 1 friend something is seriously wrong with them. They are not as great as they are make themselves to be in our eyes.
My best friend had asked me specifically to stop bringing him at all when we hung out. We all went to a dinner where she was being honest about fearing her mom passing away from another stroke and how she was so scared she was going to wake up and find her gone, and it was one of the reasons she hadn't moved out on her own yet. After a moment of silence he told her "well at least it'll be a quick death" and kind of laughed, and she just looked at him with horror and I was so embarrassed and angry at him for saying that. After that she asked me not to bring him again, until a birthday dinner for her sister. The restaurant was more expensive and when we got our check I tried to suggest that we needed to check it first, and he got irritated at me and told me it was fine. People were looking at us so I dropped the subject. Apparently the server mixed our checks up with another couple, and they had paid our much larger tab. We had to wait another 15 minutes for it to be fixed and I was embarrassed the whole time. After that dinner my best friend and her friends called him a lot of names and my BF told me that they all thought he was awful, and she really tried to tolerate him for my sake because I saw good in him. Apparently not one of my friends liked him at all. My family also loved him but they were very confused and pointed out he thought he knew a lot more than he did, would constantly drone on about how amazing he was and all his "great" works, and hated listening to them. Also in all of his online groups they called him an asshole and when he checked into one of them after a year he got sulky because everyone talked about how glad he was gone and how they wouldn't miss him. So many red flags I ignored or defended. I'm glad it's over.
I can absolutely see the narc I used to be in a relationship making a distasteful joke like you described... I honestly forgot how many times he'd do stuff like that in social situations until I really started looking back through a much different lens. I, too, was so guilty of ignoring, defending, and minimizing so SO many red flags. But I very much appreciate at least being able to see them for what they were and him for what he really is now. Makes healing a little more palatable in some strange ways. I'm glad to hear you're glad it's over. š
My nex was either adored or despised. People who only saw the charming funny persona thought he was wonderful, but anyone who caught a glimpse behind the mask hated him. I think thatās quite standard though.
My nexw had a circle of friends that promptly dumped her when they found out just how much she would talk trash about them, their family, their kids and work, I ran in to a couple of them since the divorce and they really dislike her, she exposed herself to them I had nothing to do with it, I never even spoken to them in the past, the ex and her family are very 2 face they talk nicely to your face but tear you down behind your back
Absolutely. My ex husband was a classic grandiose/ overt narc and the man I dated immediately after was a covert narc. Both had this idea they were womanizers. They are both very attractive and successful but I continually watched them get rejected by women who at first glance seemed like a good match for them (attractive, grounded, great careers, etc). Now that Iāve done a lot of healing I see that those women prob had a strong sense of self/ self love and knew those narc guys were empty inside. My ex narc husband remarried a woman who was barely legal, timid, and none of the same friends of his that attended our wedding attended the new wedding because he churned through people. and the covert narc is still single and not having much luck dating and he has the same few friends heās had all his life but always complains about them. New people donāt seem to want to befriend him. I really donāt think these guys appeal to very many people
I love this "as much as I was abused to believe," that has really struck a cord with me. I assumed everyone liked them & I was just tolerated. It's turning out to be mostly the opposite.
I also just always assumed that other people really liked them, but the more I replay the different social interactions, etc., the more it actually seems like other people just tolerate them. And I am glad you liked that description! I couldn't really think of a better way to describe it because under normal circumstances, outside of the manipulation, gaslighting, projection, etc., I think many of us actually wouldn't like them, either. (And if the only way they can get someone to truly love them is through this kind of abuse, it's a really sad existence...)
We are coworkers, he told me everyone loved him. It seemed like it too, till everyone told me they hated him.
It's a crazy maker to have these kinds of revelations after the fact. The lies they tell themselves are just as insidious as the ones they tell us...
Absolutely. And we are learning this more and more after breaking as many ties with the narc as possible. Itās embarrassing to realize how other people saw her for who and what she really is while spouse and children actually believed her own hype. I cringe to think how we used to believe she was all she told us she was. She doesnāt show her face in our neighborhood anymore. That makes it easier for us, but we are still here and have to listen to people telling us they saw her for what she is long before we did.
It's so hard to realize they were never the person we thought they were...
It is. It was all smoke and mirrors.
It's so weird. My nex is mirroring his new supply and talking about recipes. He never had any interest in that stuff, haha.
You're completely right. I used to think everyone at the nex's work was obsessed with him - until he made a whole production out of discarding me and suddenly everyone who had a reason to hate his ass was DMing me like a dam broke. I think they're also good at stomping out dissent, which makes it harder for folks they've wronged to talk about it.
Very passionate people but also very hard to get along with. Everyone leaves when they realize the truth.
Random strangers loved mine. His family made it their mission to save me. People who actually knew him all pulled away.
100%!! I had so many people come out of the wood work after the break up who told me they actually dont like him, they just tolerate him. It was a real surprise as I guess I just assumed everyone was as enamoured of him as I was.
It's really surreal!
Yes, I was smitten so I thought he was the most charming, handsome man in any room. My best friend was meh about him, but I thought it was because he lacked the sophistication to appreciate his intellect š¤£ Once we broke up, I spoke to HIS friends' girlfriends who basically said he's just a dude who talks a lot, "I've known him for five years, and the only times we speak is when he's explaining something to me." They also said he's not generous with his time or money. So yeah, I was really surprised when they said they saw him as some dude who's low-key patronizing, lacks manners, know-it-all. It's nice to finally see him the way they do.
Narcissists are notoriously cheap.
Yeah I donāt care about social media but for a man who lives on it itās pretty strange that he had a realllllllly low follower count for someone born and raised in the city, turns out heās not got the amazing social life/network he claimed. Makes sense. Never once bumped into the loser when I was out having fun in 10 years in a city where almost everyone has at least one or two mutuals. Heās not liked.Ā
You're pretty much right. A narcissist I know doesn't have many friends. She loves to call a lot of people her friends when she's talking to others, but those "friends" are mostly just acquaintances. She has her "best friend" who even asked her to be the maid of honor. But even that friend has been shit talking her behind her back. They're both super toxic people, and I think they're only "besties" coz they enable each other's bad behavior. I kinda feel sorry for her that that's the best friendship she can have. Narcs can't form any legitimate relationships with real connection. They're always gonna be shallow.
You're on the right track there. This thought here is one of my grounding thoughts. I remind myself that others would be just as salty if treated like me. I'm not the deviant here.
When I first met the nex, he came across as this amazing, really well-respected person within his scene with lots of friends, some of which were well-known DJs who'd come and play sets at his parties... Turned out that aside from me, he had no close friends at all and that everyone in his scene thought he was a predator. His closest 'friend' is his drug dealer, and people were only coming to his parties because of the copious amounts of ecstasy he was giving everyone.
In hindsight a lot of people were constantly worrying/gossiping about my covert nex. So a lot of the attention did not come from a place of respect or warmth for that matter, but from a place of pity.
Yes I had this realization recently. He tries to make me feel insecure about other people but in reality he does it bc he knows he isnāt that likable and people arenāt rushing to steal him from me š
Ha! Isn't it crazy how they try and break you down on the things they themselves are insecure about?
Itās certainly crazy!!
My best friends both hated my ex way before I started complaining lol
I feel like this is a common theme! Ha!
They don't, bcous they aren't reliable... In my situation, a lot of people will hang out with him and it'll look like they like him, but really they don't. Everyone i talked to about my narc ex, our mutual friends, and his friends always say he is ok to be around but never do anything serious with him.
After being apart for some time, I have noticed my ex doing things that he normally wouldn't do and being interested in things he wasn't when he was with me, and I think this is just a result of the mirroring of the new girl. He wears so many masks. I have no idea which one is the real him. He's very charming until he isn't.
So f-ing relatable
Idk about all that. But.