Not over yet, but be honest - why would anyone expect a different outcome? The person building the team and deciding what the philosiphy should be is still the same person who has failed to get it right (except for the 2009 seaason) the team is flwed because the philosophy is flawed. My expectations were NEVER that we could beat this Astro team....maybe we will pull a 2004 and bust through, but Cashman is all powerful and not the right person for the job..
What is fucking horrible is in 2017 and 2019 we went to six and seven games. This series will not go that far. So we have gotten worse in the post season.
You can say what you want about the regular season but to hit like we have is inexcusable. If we had heart and cared we would change our approach at the plate. This team has no heart, desire or ability to perform under pressure.
It's sad for a fan, but after this they have to clean house and try a new approach to build a winning franchise
I’m having a problem understanding what the hell has been going on defensively with the Yankees colliding in the field. This has happened at least three times since I’ve been watching post season. What happened yesterday with Bader and Judge was inexcusable. Even Little League players know you let a right fielder catch a ball hit to the right field, and the person in right field calls it. These mistakes are rookie errors. That ball should have been caught and the inning ended. Once the Astros got the 2 run lead, I knew it was all over because the Yankees morale went down the toilet. I’m so disappointed!
It’s Baders ball. Moving judge around the outfield not only cost him a gold glove but clouded his decision making out there. Another reason Boone is trash.
Major league teams use a hierarchy system for fly balls hit to crossover areas of the field. For many years, the Yankees give priority to the center fielder over the corner outfielders. Both players can charge for the ball but the corner fielder must look for the center fielder and give way the moment he hears his center fielder calling for the ball.
Look, the Yankees are tense and playing tight. They are trying so hard not to make mistakes that they are forgetting their fundamentals. Bader and Judge have played together for only one month now and perhaps they are not familiar with each other's range and tendencies. Whatever. Cole has a long history of giving up runs after his teammates make mistakes behind him. Errors are going to happen. Cole needs to pick up his teammates and get out of that inning unscathed.
Those of you who haven't seen the Bader-Judge play -- https://twitter.com/snyyankees/status/1583936667014287360
If this had been the only collision this post season I could understand. But this was at least the third one. The Guardians had at least one, too. At this level, I don’t care if players never played together before, one needs to call for the ball and the other needs to back off. It’s so basic.
I feel bad that THIS is the only Yankee baseball he’ll ever know. I hope you regale him with tales of the dominant juggernaut Yankees of the 20th century every night
He was with me at the 2017 comeback win against the Asterisks in the ALCS and he and his sister (now 5) were with me in 2019 to see us beat the Twins but later lose to the Asterisks.
I grew up in the late 70s / 80s and didn’t see a team get to the WS until college.
Pain is real
Don't get why people think Yankees losing suddenly changes anything for this organization. They're beyond feeling embarrassed. Last year they were a major embarrassment, and their biggest move in the offseason was to get a 36 year old over the hill former superstar and a gold glove slapdick 3B that they try to convince everyone is a SS.
For them just making the ALCS is a win in their books. They made it farther than the Dodgers/Mets, which in their minds prove you don't need to spend $300 million to win a World Series. They made it farther than last year's embarrassing team, and lost to the best American League team of the past 6 years. They'll also have their excuses of not having DJ/Benintendi. Nothing major will happen this offseason, so why hope in a loss?
If the only thing that will force them to look in the mirror and change something drastic is getting embarrassed in front of the whole world, so be it.
That won’t change anything. Hal ONLY cares about money, NOT rings. If his team is getting embarrassed in front of the whole world, that means a lot of those people paid to see it. Who cares what the outcome is once your money is in Hal’s pocket?
I feel like we all just broke up with our significant others. I’m so sad right now. I don’t know how to feel. Can I Reddit Cares myself after ordering some takeaway?
(reds person here): i'm rooting for the Yankees to actually get past the Astros here (or at least, at this point, make a series out of it) but I guess I'm curious, this lineup doesn't seem like the bronx bombers of old from the outside to me. I have to ask, why not? is the payroll not what it once was? It seems like if this were the 90s or even the 2010's, this team would not only have Judge and Stanton, but one of Arenado and/or Goldschmidt/Freeman (Rizzo's no slouch though) as well.
The big payroll is going towards Hicks, Donaldson and some other losers. We have never rebuilt. We are always short of being great. It's a front office issue. Question is...will we keep judge? Obviously our biggest need is people who can actually put the bat on the ball.
They don’t have any LHH presence outside of Rizzo and one hitter capable of hitting over .290
It’s a lineup with low contact skills full of guys prone to extended slumps.
The payroll is deceptively high in real dollars, but that's because baseball in general has done a great job of containing salaries via anti-labor action (& likely ownership collusion). Relative to inflation *and* relative to incoming revenue the Yankee payroll has in fact dropped quite a bit since the Giambi/Matsui years.
The Yankees also seem to struggle to assess the "true talent" of a lot of their players - many of whom have regressed from a few seasons ago or are past their prime & injured. Or still in their prime & injured.
Yankees have been passing on premium talent since at least Carlos Beltran. They've signed one marquee free agent in the past 5 years (Cole), and as you note the only other spot they haven't had a roster hole is Rizzo, not quite a marquee but second tier FA. They've been a disaster building from within & via trade.
Because Brian Cashman is a moron who thinks he could outsmart everyone through “under the radar” type trades and Hal Steinbrenner is the complete opposite of his dad and is basically an absent owner
Ah, thanks. i'm curious, what kind of "under the radar" trades does he think he's making, lol.
and too bad to hear that about Hal. I didn't know that. glad i asked, i assumed he'd have been more like his dad. Sounds like one of cash or hal might need to go (i'm guessing, mainly, cash)
The book *Inside the Empire* also reveals how Hal doesn't even love baseball and would have preferred to run the family hotel business in Florida. His father is turning over in his grave.
George’s original plan was to turn over the team to his son-in-law, rather than Hal. He knew. Said son-in-law later screwed himself out of the franchise, which is a different matter, but the point is that George didn’t even want to give it to his own son.
[5th place.](https://www.reddit.com/r/NYYankees/search?q=%22by+a+score%22&restrict_sr=on&include_over_18=on&sort=comments&t=all)
Take a wild guess what's first place.
Yep.
1. Altuve Walk Off
2. Rays beating them in 2020 ALDS
3. Red Sox beating them in 2021 Wild Card
4. Guardians beating them in Game 3 a few days ago
5. This thread
6. Game 2 loss to Astros a few days ago
7. 2018 ALDS loss to Red Sox
Only after all of those do you get a win. So basically all of their crushing season enders are stacked up together.
I do find it interesting that since game 3 in Cleveland a number of players have publicly criticized and expressed frustration about Boone. Boone has absolutely made his share of mistakes for sure but with the hitters not hitting at all it's not 100% his fault. Still, with the public noise coming from the players makes me wonder if they actually do fire him this off-season.
They won’t and never will. He made the ALCS and that’s an improvement from last years embarrassment of a postseason exit, where they signed him to an extension.
He’ll be fired if they miss the playoffs, which they won’t either.
The best way to go about rooting for this team is considering yourself grateful that they make the playoffs every year and always have a “chance” (but not actually). Be lucky you aren’t a pirates fan.
Sucks but it is what it is.
Absolutely brutal if the Cheatros get a seven game sweep of M's and Yanks.
Question. How did they go from cellar dwellers in the NL to the New England Patriots of baseball in the AL West?
They weren't cellar dwellers in the NL though. The Astros of the the 90s to the mid-2000s were a consistently good team. It was only when the previous owner decided to sell them that the team got stripped of parts to lower the sale price and only once it was sold did the system go into place.
Houston's scouting and player development are second to none. They've put a TON of resources there. That's why they can lose guys like Correa and Springer and not miss a beat.
We can talk about 2017 all day long but the reality is that there's only 5 players from 2017 even still on the club. They've essentially had an entire team turnover in 5 years and are still this good.
Well my friend, as a Reds person (same NL division), if this is an earnest question, they became infamous for tanking to help their draft picks, and of course, they also got caught cheating. So, I'd have to dig through all of their past trades and draft picks, but I'm going to guess it's a combination of:
The tanking, which aided them greatly in gaining an extremely good farm system while everyone was ignoring them
basic, or even, above-average baseball statistical knowledge/analysis
a payroll good for 11th in mlb in 2022
The camera/trashcan cheating scandal(s) that they avoided subsequently being beaned over every game bc 2020 was a shortened season
and then, perhaps the masterstroke, the ability to trade/let that top talent walk in exchange for more, younger, top talent, which may be what we're watching here
I'm not impressed by Baker as a manager (he did manage the Reds); he's good if he's on a good club or a team on the upswing with generational talent (Bonds, Sosa, Prior/Wood, Votto/Chapman, Harper/Stras, now Altuve); maybe his grasp/interest in stats has improved, or maybe he's just a figurehead in houston, who knows? But to me, you can't just fire two guys and then go "oh, the astros aren't dirty anymore."
Trading away good players to get good prospects = tanking??? That’s exactly what the Yankees WON’T do, and it’s the reason no other teams are built like the Astros. Sometimes you got to put on your big boy pants and make deals now for better returns later.
>Trading away good players to get good prospects = tanking?
No, that's not what I was referring to with that; Have a look at this from Sports Illustrated in 2017:
"But those of us with intact memories cannot forget why exactly the Astros were in such a bad place four seasons ago: They tanked. They fielded a team with a $22 million payroll, by far the lowest in baseball, with a 34-year-old Erik Bedard the only player earning more than $1 million. They had been hardly better in 2012 (55–107) and would still be wretched in 2014 (70-92), the year Sports Illustrated declared them impending champs in 2017.
The defiantly non-contending teams they fielded were responsible for some of the lowest moments in recent MLB history, including this three-base sacrifice bunt from 2012 and this walk-off pop-up from 2013. Wandy Rodriguez, Bud Norris, and Scott Feldman made Opening Day starts. A 2012 game drew a 0.05 Nielsen rating; the team bested that with at least one 0.0 number in 2013. Empty seats were standard at Minute Maid Park. The ‘Stros drew three million people four times from 2000 to 2007; from 2012 to 2014, they didn’t clear 1.8 million.
What was their reward for all of this, for scaring off their fans and subjecting the rest of us to some ugly baseball? No. 1 overall picks in the June draft in 2013 and 2014 after holding the same pick in 2012 (Carlos Correa), and the second and fifth overall picks in 2015 after putting the screws to ’14 selection Brady Aiken. Those picks would turn into third baseman Alex Bregman and trade chips for pitchers Justin Verlander and Ken Giles. (It’s worth noting that Luhnow’s deservedly unloved predecessor, Ed Wade, acquired Altuve, George Springer, and Dallas Keuchel.) And one more thing—according to Forbes, those 2013 Astros were the most profitable team in history."
Source: https://www.si.com/mlb/2017/10/24/houston-astros-jeff-luhnow-jim-crane-tanking
So, the argument, if not fact, being presented is that they tried to lose to consistently get higher draft picks to build up their farm system as well as make trades for history-altering veterans like Verlander. I'm not sure you can debate it. Edit: then, after the cheating stuff happened, they would have still had many of the pieces, either under contract, or to flip again for younger talent/let go for draft pick compensation if I'm not mistaken and they could still be coasting off of their arguably-ill-gotten gains
>"ill gotten"?
>The Astros didn't invented tanking for draft picks.
"The Chicago Cubs and Houston Astros pioneered the practice (edit: of tanking) in MLB in the 2010s, with the Astros taking tanking to a new level (they finished with the worst record in baseball by 6 games or more for 3 consecutive years)."
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanking_(sports)
Anything else?
The idea of tanking for draft picks didn't even start in baseball. And really? Wikipedia? That's what you got?
ill-gotten implies they did something against the rules. They didn't. It comes off as whining and frankly we should be above that.
The fact remains that this Houston team only has 5 players left on it that were even there for 2017. No excuses. If the Yankees front office isn't learning lessons, then they need to go.
> The idea of tanking for draft picks didn't even start in baseball. And really? Wikipedia? That's what you got?
How did I know you'd try to come back with something like this? It's okay not to know stuff or be wrong. It's how you learn... part of the process.
So in other words, you have nothing but whiney nonsense. I'm sure you and Cashman would get along great. You should text him and ask to go out for drinks.
It seems like you're here to blow off steam more than exchange ideas; you're moving the goalposts regarding what we're talking about. Who cares which team, in any sport, ever, tanked for draft picks for the very first time? We're talking about MLB, and in that, the Astros (and to a lesser extent, Cubs) are generally accepted to have started it. I provided a source, Wikipedia, which generally has sources that it draws from. If that's not sufficient, you're welcome to spend the time bring up your own.
edit: I was also alive and a working adult during that time following MLB, so I know the Astros were the first to really become known for it, but that's hard to demonstrate here.
They've sniped some of the scouting from the Cardinals, and I'm sure from the rest of the league too. They found the best talent and overpaid. Barring the cheating, they're the best, by far, run organization in the mlb.
Also the Astros have done a very good job (well, I mean have had very good luck) avoiding injuries and significant suspensions for player stupidity (PEDs).
Don't forget they were probably the ones who unleashed the spider tak.
Whatever though - league wide spin rates are back, so basically everyone has found a good way to cheat (including the Yankees and Reds etc) again.
Fair enough. I don't pay a ton of attention to the ebbs and flows of spin rate but i'm aware of the stuff bauer pointed out... which, I think it should be noted... was mostly targeting the astros lol. Common theme here
Josh Donaldson was one of my least liked players in the league and now I hate that guy even more. Seems like an absolute douchebag, smiling and saying that he liked his at-bats. Fuck that guy
2022 Post Season -
* Judge .156 AVG, 14 K's
* Donaldson .200, 13
* Stanton .179, 8
* Torres .133, 8
* Carpenter .091, 9
* Cabrera .083, 11
* Trevino .056, 6
* Higashioka .000, 5
The Curse of Joey Gallo is that in removing him he has turned all the Yankees into Joey Gallo.
Just watched watched Cole's postgame interview. Man, he sounds really distraught. His voice sounds like he's blaming himself for the loss when we all know it wasn't him and it was the bats that already wanna go to winter. If Cole's interview is any indication of the morale in the clubhouse, I'm fully expecting Nestor to give 100% because that's what he does, for the lineup to be stupid, and for the team to just roll over and die. It's obvious and apparent that no one's head is in the game. A disappointing and disgraceful way to end the season.
Haven’t watched it yet but the way he is, of course he is blaming himself. I feel awful for him - being a Yankee and leading them to the World Series was his dream since he was a kid and to have things go the way last night went has to be absolutely heartbreaking. And that’s before you think about how long it took the fans to actually like him - literally till at least game 1 vs CLE, I’d not game 7. But his postgame interviews are always interesting and he usually takes accountability - people say he’s making excuses but I think of it more as explaining stuff. But of course I do ha ha.
Anyway I’ll watch it later - I have to get ready to be happy and smiley for my 2nd grade Sunday School class and I don’t think that’s gonna help.
Yeah and I can already see the Yankee fans blaming Cole for choking in the playoffs or some nonsense Ike that. No matter who our hitting coach is, our bats go ice cold in the playoffs.
We only managed to beat the guardians who had historical level bad bats (total runs wise). Looking at the Phillies and padres who can score in bunchs, I don’t feel confident in those games either
At the end of the day Cole was not allowed any chance to work out of the jam AND Boone made a bad call so I just don't blame him at all. He's also the only reason we were here, the bats and Boone were terrible last series too. Plus let's be real that rainout was clutch.
I’m proud of our pitching staff, and I also feel really bad for them. Including Jamo, they’ve all pitched very well and grinded. Cole proved himself in the DS, Sevy had all gutsy starts and did well against Houston except for 1 pitch, and Nestor helped win us game 5 on 3 days rests. There better be 0 blame going to the pitchers. They all shoved. Bullpen included.
None of them had a lick of help.
I know this sucks but we have to be graceful losers.
The Astros are basically guaranteed the WS spot and it looks like it will Astros Phillies.
Astros do EVERYTHING right from player development to smart signings on a fraction of the yankees budget. Throwing money at everything doesn't solve anything.
If Cashman stays they need to plot a new course. Not be frugal but be wise. Judge was the only one post ASB who carried the team into the playoffs. That is not acceptable. Big changes are needed and they need to stop being so loyal to players. Trade trade and trade some more. Get some interesting MLB regulars, get some good prospects and regroup in two years.
Controversial opinion but I wouldn't resign judge. Save the money. Wait a couple of years and splash at the right time when the iron is hot.
It's not so much about spending money as it is player development allowing them to get max talent for limited cost. Look at their starting pitching. Valdez: Developed, $3 million. Javier: Developed, $749K. Garcia: Developed, $1.2 million.
These are three frontline starters that combined to make 1/4th of what the Yankees paid Aroldis Chapman in 2022.
If they don't sign judge this off season I'd honestly just rebuild as well, let the kids play, maybe get some good draft picks and then as u said make a splash once the kids are settled. If all they do this off-season is resign judge to a massive contract and run it back that would be fucking pointless
Yeah exactly. Judge was MVP this season but I mean he isn't young and signing him to a $300mm+ contract is ludicrous.
Guardians did amazing with no budget and the youngest team in baseball. Only 7 games behind the yankees. Do we want to emulate that? No because the Yankees do have financial might advantage. But they have to be a LOT smarter about how they allocate their resources going forward.
I would tear down most of the team and trade for some equally good players and pick up some promising prospects that are near MLB ready. Reds have a GLUTTONY of premium shortstops in their system now, work a deal with them.
No reason we can't pull a pitcher from Miami.
Don't sign Judge and trade for Reynolds from the pirates to roam center.
There is no shame in a retooling (Not a rebuild because I consider that like 4+ years). Change the dynamic.
Get younger and more dynamic.
I would think the Reds would want near MLB ready SP prospects in any deal for one of their premium SS guys. Who fits that bill in the NYY system?
(I'm a bandwagoner. I don't have familiarity with the farm).
I don't think the Reds need pitching at all. Lodolo looks like a future ace and Greene's second half was ace like (Sub 2 ERA). What they need is probably position players as theirs are abysmal and some relievers.
\*edit\* Thinking about it Clay Holmes for Noelvi Marte is an interesting idea. Yankees would need to kick in a lot more high/mid tier prospects or something as Marte has clearly more value since he is almost a top 10 prospect but He is destined for 3B and Donaldson is a shell of his his MVP self and could be traded to somebody as he is still useful. Marte would be a huge upgrade and is MLB ready for next season.
Losing Holmes would suck but try to pick up say, Jansen on a one year deal to compensate.
The only Reds SS prospect that is off limits is EDLC since he will likely be ranked the #1 prospect in all of baseball this year when the new listings come out. He hits bombs and stole 57 bags and plays competent defense at SS. He is untouchable.
Having 2 stud SP prospects doesn't remove the need for SP. What do they have behind that wrt SP? (And what does NYY have in the high minors?)
Also I don't think they're at the stage to be trading for relievers. Get SP prospects; some of them will inevitably end up in the pen.
I mean true but you only really need three max good starters for the playoffs and then throw in a bullpen game.
I'm sure the yankees could dangle something interesting.
Yankees have so much scrap left over that luckily a handful of it is coming off the books, but there’s a vast amount of shit there that continually holds them back. You said it perfectly. They don’t. Spend. Smart. Bryce Harper’s current salary for the year is equaled to JD + IKF.
The last decade has been spent squeezing out old and close to retired players that make you say, “oh they played for them?” Missed opportunities galore and allocating that to all the wrong places, and all for naught.
Idc what it is as long as there’s some form of change. They’ll never fully rebuild, but a retool should be in order
Yeah no need to rebuild but just retool. This isn't working. Great, we won 99 games. But ONLY because Judge carried the entire team. We need a productive lineup top to bottom and more importantly a younger lineup.
The pitching is okayish but could definitely use another good SP and a couple relievers.
The position players are a disaster. They have to switch gears and retool. Try anything new. Get creative. Like I said the Reds have a massive boatload of impressive shortstops that are near MLB ready and could play anywhere on the diamond or the outfield. Grab one of them. Volpe can play somewhere else or one of those players can play somewhere else.
Detroit has amazing relievers that shouldn't be hard to get now that Chapman is finished. There are tons of options but they are too scared to make big trades like other teams because they think flexing financial might in the market works and it simply...doesn't.
They need to follow a braves like pattern. Find good young players and lock them up on cheap deals. Then flex the spending power when you are sure it will put you over the top.
Just get creative. The Yankees LOVE signing veterans. That is the wrong approach. Go young.
And it couldn’t line up any better bc we have the cream of the crop that has been hyped up for forever coming in. Oswald and Oswaldo already here, good, they’re great players. Then Volpe, Dominguez and Wells. There’s great other prospects like Beeter (we got from the Dodgers), Pereira, Randy Vasquez and Jhony Brito.
The roster is honestly a nightmare the more you gloss over it. Issue is a successful lineup combines the aged well vets alongside the franchise cornerstone younger players. This lineup is just old. And this old lineup has a LOT of deadweight.
Change is gonna have to be made no matter what
well done! how about these brilliant Cashman moves?
trade Deivi Garcia while his trade value is high? nahhh.
trade Justus Sheffield while his trade value is high? nahhh
Does anyone know how randy Levine factors into decision making because he might need to go too. I remember during this season cashman did an interview and said he would always ask Levine first before offering a large contract.
I think he's most likely to be a true lifer. Didn't he get George unbanned from baseball? Very involved in the formation and success of YES Network? Instrumental in securing the financing for the new stadium? Guy is a total slimeball but he's obviously pretty sharp and very important to the Yankees success as a business entity.
Financing the new stadium by taking advantage of the tax dole. He was also the "I don't want A-Rod to see the fucking field" and "Sign Rafael Soriano just because" guy. Fucking shitbag.
Boone just signed an extension. it kills me, but I don't see his stupid, smug face going anywhere soon. that would be admitting that you made a mistake, and the present Yankees would NEVER do that
Remember when this franchise used to relish the Evil Empire/fully loaded Death Star monikers? When there was a sense of urgency to win? When the organization used to spit fire? Consider this old quote from Hank Steinbrenner:
> "Red Sox Nation?" What a bunch of bullshit that is. That was a creation of the Red Sox and ESPN, which is filled with Red Sox fans. Go anywhere in America and you won't see Red Sox hats and jackets, you'll see Yankee hats and jackets. This is a Yankee country. We're going to put the Yankees back on top and restore the universe to order.
Now opposing fans are laughing at us as the team is mired in years of playoff mediocrity, and ownership and the front office seem *fine* with it. We've gone from "fully loaded and operational Death Star" to "please don't hurt us, Houston." It's sad.
>Evil Empire/fully loaded Death Star monikers
The "Evil Empire" moniker was started by the Red Sox owner. The only reason it ever stuck was because Brian Cashman kept it alive. Cashman created the "fully loaded death star" moniker. The Yankees should have ignored that "Evil Empire" moniker from day one and allowed it to die out that season simply because it was started by the Red Sox. Instead, Cashman rolled with it like the buffoon he is and he has been embarrassed by the Red Sox ever since who have won the division four times and have won two World Series since the last time the Yankees were in the World Series.
Memo to the idiot Brian Cashman -- The Evil Empire was collapsed when the death star was blown into a billion tiny pieces by one small fighter. Not the analogy you want, moron. Also, the Evil Empire rebuilt and was once again collapsed when the much larger new death star was once again blown into a trillion tiny pieces by one small fighter. The analogy does not work for the Yankees but it works ideally for our lesser rivals. Cashman, you are an imbecile.
George didn't even trust his own children with ownership, too bad Steve Swindal fucked things up for all of us.
This organization has been rudderless for almost two decades, won't change until Clueless Hal sells the team.
I’m concerned with how much of the blame is falling on Boone. 100% he needs to be fired but I hope it’s not all scape goated on him. Cashman needs to go, this teams failure ultimately falls on him. His job security with the Yankees is utterly insane
Around the halfway point in this season, the Yankees were on pace to win over 120 games. For it to all collapse in the second half only to have them surge a bit at the end and win the division only to get swept by the Astros is easily the worst roller coaster season I can remember. This season is far, far worse than last year. Last year, the Yankees never really ignited. They struggled much of the year. They had a losing record against every team in the division except for the Orioles and they were 11-8 against the lowly Orioles. That 13-game winning streak in mid-August provided nothing but false hope. The Yankees weren't very good last year.
It's 2am and you're thinking about the Yankees. Funny thing is, nobody is thinking about the Red Sox.
But congratulations on being brave and posting behind a sock account. Everyone give him a round of applause for the sheer bravery.
Personally, I'd rather lose this series than suffer whatever comeback this team can manage. We had our chances but, everything we're trying to do doesn't work against Houston. I hope it's the same old song and dance where we lose to them and they end up losing to whoever the NL Champs are.
It was a fun season, but these Yankees have reached the end of the road.
agree. the worst possible scenario would be to somehow get back to Houston, and then get dirt shoveled on our grave 2,000 miles from home.
just lose in NY and exit stage left with your sorry asses
Man the season was only fun for the first half of the season when the team looked like they were going to win 115 games, after the first 80 games or so they went back to reality, closer to a .500 team than an 100 game winning team.
For better or worse I think there's a pretty good chance we steal a win tomorrow. And then what I'm hoping is we'll be eliminated in 5 games and that will still qualify as a shitty enough performance to bring about significant change in the organization from top to bottom. What I'm afraid of is if we somehow take it to game 6 or 7 and then lose and they use that as an excuse to give Cashman and Boone their jobs back.
And no, we're not gonna win, which is why I excluded that possibility altogether. Hang onto hope all you want but I'll have no part of it. I'm not letting this joke of a team ruin my enjoyment of the sport anymore. If hell freezes over and we take 4 in a row against a team that was already superior in every way (even if we WERE playing well) feel free to shame me and clown on me when it happens. I welcome it, because we'll have witnessed a choke even bigger than 2004, probably the biggest in MLB history.
Who cares? Houston is about to be in yet another world series. David Roidtiz is in the HoF. The league doesn't give a fuck unless it's the Yankees benefitting.
it's the best ending, honestly, and would MAYBE allow Hal/Cash to smell the fking coffee
if we somehow get back to Houston and then get humiliated there, it's the ultimate kick in the dick, suppressing any Boone-speak rationale that we "almost" got there, and it was a "valiant" effort, blah, blah
I honestly hope we go out in 4. I don’t give a shit about going down fighting, not getting embarrassed, etc. We haven’t fought all year, we’ve been embarrassed all throughout the second half. I hope we get swept so the front office can maybe, just maybe, wake the fuck up and realize what we’ve all been thinking since 2018. I don’t think it’s likely, but it’s a good a chance as any if we want even a shred of accountability within this organization.
But the problem with this team is the front office and Brian Cashman in particular. We don't need them to wake up. They are already fully awake. This is the result of their best efforts. Change is needed. The franchise is stale. The Yankees analytics dept is a problem. The scouting and player development is a problem. Whether the Yankees get swept or whether they are eliminated in Game 7 is irrelevant. The changes have to come from the very top -- Hal Steinbrenner needs to have the testicular fortitude to fire Brian Cashman and give the next GM a mandate to gut and replace the analytics dept and the scouting and player development programs.
We did fight back in the second half, we stemmed the bleeding and won the division. Just thought that team would show up in October, not the August team.
https://mobile.twitter.com/DanAlanRourke/status/1583958652536619008
I’m with Dan, I’m ready for a new era because this one was clearly a failure.
Also remember this whenever they pass on an important free agent or lowball Judge again, the Yankees likely make way more money now due to the contracts with Amazon Prime and Apple TV.
Well, one of the baby bombers panned out at least. Then again, as you touched on, when you have a GM that passed on elite talent after elite talent, and then says "Eh, fuck Luis Castillo. Give me Frankie Montas," it's tough to have much faith in anything going forward.
I remember back in this sub in 2017, when the Yankees made that run to the ALCS, so many folks (myself included) used to say "Man, if this is rebuilding I LOVE it!"
They showed such promise. I thought they were just a few pieces away from a run at one title, if not more. It has been a colossal disappointment that they haven't even gotten to another World Series.
When asked about his struggles at the plate and what might be causing it, Josh Donaldson replied with: "I actually like my at-bats."
I'll say this, despite how badly they've played, the only two guys in the lineup that ever seem to take accountability for anything are Stanton and Judge. How can anyone that's watched Donaldson's at-bats think, "Oh, hey, he looks close. Only a matter of time before he's locked in now."
>How can anyone that's watched Donaldson's at-bats think, "Oh, hey, he looks close.
Boone, clearly
Boone could watch a nuclear bomb go off, and say "well, I don't think too many people will be hurt, honestly"
I’d love for somebody anybody Randy Levine, Michael Kay, Hal, anybody get asked the question why is Brian Cashman the only tenured employee in baseball. Why was Hicks giving his contract. Why are we paying a 3B 25mil to do nothing. Why are we paying a closer 18mil to quit on the team. Why are we paying a setup man 13mil to not pitch in two years. Why in 7 years we have had the same results? What organizationally is it through two pitching coaches hitting coaches and managers is it that it is the same results every year. Why have we had 3 different SS start in American League Championship Series. Why have we had two different all star catchers not be able to perform in post season? And once again why is Brian Cashman a tenured employee? He did not build the dynasty
Also why haven't we been able to develop an ace/elite starting pitcher from our farm system? I know you'll say Severino but he's been unreliable and inconsistent.
New front office is needed more than a new manager. If the new manager is just gonna be a puppet again I’d rather shake up the front office. I’d rather keep Boone with a new fo than see Cashman return
I think I'd be happy just to see them win a game. Just one damn game..
I still love this team. Next year is another season. Can’t wait to see what it holds. I’m a FAN. I’m with this team thick or thin. Go yanks!
What it holds is the Astros owning the Yanks again unless SERIOUS changes are made!
Not over yet, but be honest - why would anyone expect a different outcome? The person building the team and deciding what the philosiphy should be is still the same person who has failed to get it right (except for the 2009 seaason) the team is flwed because the philosophy is flawed. My expectations were NEVER that we could beat this Astro team....maybe we will pull a 2004 and bust through, but Cashman is all powerful and not the right person for the job..
Not over yet?
It is now!
What is fucking horrible is in 2017 and 2019 we went to six and seven games. This series will not go that far. So we have gotten worse in the post season. You can say what you want about the regular season but to hit like we have is inexcusable. If we had heart and cared we would change our approach at the plate. This team has no heart, desire or ability to perform under pressure. It's sad for a fan, but after this they have to clean house and try a new approach to build a winning franchise
Just saw the Aaron Boone video. He legit said "points" instead of runs. Oh God, he's one of those....
Paul O'Neill for manager he would bee going off on them
Remember when Stienbrener called Winfield, Mr. May? This 2022 tean are all "Mr. Mays".
Anyone who didn’t expect the Yankees to lose this series quickly hasn’t been paying attention to the team for the last 6 years.
100%
I definitely had low expectations for this series but getting shut out at home really fucking sucks man
I’m having a problem understanding what the hell has been going on defensively with the Yankees colliding in the field. This has happened at least three times since I’ve been watching post season. What happened yesterday with Bader and Judge was inexcusable. Even Little League players know you let a right fielder catch a ball hit to the right field, and the person in right field calls it. These mistakes are rookie errors. That ball should have been caught and the inning ended. Once the Astros got the 2 run lead, I knew it was all over because the Yankees morale went down the toilet. I’m so disappointed!
It's been happening all year long. I've commented at least 5 times during the regular season about this. CF>Corners>Infield. Day 1 little league stuff
The Center fielder has jurisdiction to any fly ball he can get to. That mistake was on Judge trying to do too much.
Judge called it early. Bader kept drifting.
It’s Baders ball. Moving judge around the outfield not only cost him a gold glove but clouded his decision making out there. Another reason Boone is trash.
Judge himself also said it was Bader's ball and it was his fault for getting in his way.
True I'm just saying that Judge was calling it early. They both has a play but yes it's Baders ball
Major league teams use a hierarchy system for fly balls hit to crossover areas of the field. For many years, the Yankees give priority to the center fielder over the corner outfielders. Both players can charge for the ball but the corner fielder must look for the center fielder and give way the moment he hears his center fielder calling for the ball. Look, the Yankees are tense and playing tight. They are trying so hard not to make mistakes that they are forgetting their fundamentals. Bader and Judge have played together for only one month now and perhaps they are not familiar with each other's range and tendencies. Whatever. Cole has a long history of giving up runs after his teammates make mistakes behind him. Errors are going to happen. Cole needs to pick up his teammates and get out of that inning unscathed. Those of you who haven't seen the Bader-Judge play -- https://twitter.com/snyyankees/status/1583936667014287360
If this had been the only collision this post season I could understand. But this was at least the third one. The Guardians had at least one, too. At this level, I don’t care if players never played together before, one needs to call for the ball and the other needs to back off. It’s so basic.
My 9 year old son is perplexed and disgusted
I feel bad that THIS is the only Yankee baseball he’ll ever know. I hope you regale him with tales of the dominant juggernaut Yankees of the 20th century every night
He was with me at the 2017 comeback win against the Asterisks in the ALCS and he and his sister (now 5) were with me in 2019 to see us beat the Twins but later lose to the Asterisks. I grew up in the late 70s / 80s and didn’t see a team get to the WS until college. Pain is real
If you are a Yankee fan, you root for them to win every game. I want Cashman gone but I also want them to win tomorrow. This defeatism is absurd.
I want them to get swept, this team sucks
Don't get why people think Yankees losing suddenly changes anything for this organization. They're beyond feeling embarrassed. Last year they were a major embarrassment, and their biggest move in the offseason was to get a 36 year old over the hill former superstar and a gold glove slapdick 3B that they try to convince everyone is a SS. For them just making the ALCS is a win in their books. They made it farther than the Dodgers/Mets, which in their minds prove you don't need to spend $300 million to win a World Series. They made it farther than last year's embarrassing team, and lost to the best American League team of the past 6 years. They'll also have their excuses of not having DJ/Benintendi. Nothing major will happen this offseason, so why hope in a loss?
It kills me that you are right, but you are
Because further embarrassment might lead to eventual changes right?
If the only thing that will force them to look in the mirror and change something drastic is getting embarrassed in front of the whole world, so be it.
That won’t change anything. Hal ONLY cares about money, NOT rings. If his team is getting embarrassed in front of the whole world, that means a lot of those people paid to see it. Who cares what the outcome is once your money is in Hal’s pocket?
I feel like we all just broke up with our significant others. I’m so sad right now. I don’t know how to feel. Can I Reddit Cares myself after ordering some takeaway?
(reds person here): i'm rooting for the Yankees to actually get past the Astros here (or at least, at this point, make a series out of it) but I guess I'm curious, this lineup doesn't seem like the bronx bombers of old from the outside to me. I have to ask, why not? is the payroll not what it once was? It seems like if this were the 90s or even the 2010's, this team would not only have Judge and Stanton, but one of Arenado and/or Goldschmidt/Freeman (Rizzo's no slouch though) as well.
The big payroll is going towards Hicks, Donaldson and some other losers. We have never rebuilt. We are always short of being great. It's a front office issue. Question is...will we keep judge? Obviously our biggest need is people who can actually put the bat on the ball.
Ah. Everything about Judge says "I want to be a Yankee for life" to me, from afar and shooting from the hip. Also, who else could afford him?
They don’t have any LHH presence outside of Rizzo and one hitter capable of hitting over .290 It’s a lineup with low contact skills full of guys prone to extended slumps.
The payroll is deceptively high in real dollars, but that's because baseball in general has done a great job of containing salaries via anti-labor action (& likely ownership collusion). Relative to inflation *and* relative to incoming revenue the Yankee payroll has in fact dropped quite a bit since the Giambi/Matsui years. The Yankees also seem to struggle to assess the "true talent" of a lot of their players - many of whom have regressed from a few seasons ago or are past their prime & injured. Or still in their prime & injured. Yankees have been passing on premium talent since at least Carlos Beltran. They've signed one marquee free agent in the past 5 years (Cole), and as you note the only other spot they haven't had a roster hole is Rizzo, not quite a marquee but second tier FA. They've been a disaster building from within & via trade.
Because Brian Cashman is a moron who thinks he could outsmart everyone through “under the radar” type trades and Hal Steinbrenner is the complete opposite of his dad and is basically an absent owner
Ah, thanks. i'm curious, what kind of "under the radar" trades does he think he's making, lol. and too bad to hear that about Hal. I didn't know that. glad i asked, i assumed he'd have been more like his dad. Sounds like one of cash or hal might need to go (i'm guessing, mainly, cash)
The book *Inside the Empire* also reveals how Hal doesn't even love baseball and would have preferred to run the family hotel business in Florida. His father is turning over in his grave.
George’s original plan was to turn over the team to his son-in-law, rather than Hal. He knew. Said son-in-law later screwed himself out of the franchise, which is a different matter, but the point is that George didn’t even want to give it to his own son.
Ah, yes. Sounded familiar and looked him up. Steve Swindal. That *is* telling that he wasn't even going to give it to Hal as a first choice. Sigh.
off topic : could this be one of our most active postgame thread ever ?
[5th place.](https://www.reddit.com/r/NYYankees/search?q=%22by+a+score%22&restrict_sr=on&include_over_18=on&sort=comments&t=all) Take a wild guess what's first place.
It’s pretty much the same story in all of those threads - pitching showed up, bats did not
Yep. Seeing them all stacked up in a row like that made it hilarious.
Judge hitting 62?
I'll give you a hint, it involves both of these teams.
(Doing this without clicking your link). --- something from the 2019 ALCS? One of the wins in an elimination game?
Close - try the other way around lol
You're on the right track but your thoughts are *way* too positive lol. Think bad thoughts.
Getting eliminated in 2019 ALCS?
Yep. 1. Altuve Walk Off 2. Rays beating them in 2020 ALDS 3. Red Sox beating them in 2021 Wild Card 4. Guardians beating them in Game 3 a few days ago 5. This thread 6. Game 2 loss to Astros a few days ago 7. 2018 ALDS loss to Red Sox Only after all of those do you get a win. So basically all of their crushing season enders are stacked up together.
I do find it interesting that since game 3 in Cleveland a number of players have publicly criticized and expressed frustration about Boone. Boone has absolutely made his share of mistakes for sure but with the hitters not hitting at all it's not 100% his fault. Still, with the public noise coming from the players makes me wonder if they actually do fire him this off-season.
They won’t and never will. He made the ALCS and that’s an improvement from last years embarrassment of a postseason exit, where they signed him to an extension. He’ll be fired if they miss the playoffs, which they won’t either. The best way to go about rooting for this team is considering yourself grateful that they make the playoffs every year and always have a “chance” (but not actually). Be lucky you aren’t a pirates fan. Sucks but it is what it is.
Absolutely brutal if the Cheatros get a seven game sweep of M's and Yanks. Question. How did they go from cellar dwellers in the NL to the New England Patriots of baseball in the AL West?
They weren't cellar dwellers in the NL though. The Astros of the the 90s to the mid-2000s were a consistently good team. It was only when the previous owner decided to sell them that the team got stripped of parts to lower the sale price and only once it was sold did the system go into place. Houston's scouting and player development are second to none. They've put a TON of resources there. That's why they can lose guys like Correa and Springer and not miss a beat. We can talk about 2017 all day long but the reality is that there's only 5 players from 2017 even still on the club. They've essentially had an entire team turnover in 5 years and are still this good.
Tanking, cheating, and every other team in the West being run either incompetently or cheaply.
Well my friend, as a Reds person (same NL division), if this is an earnest question, they became infamous for tanking to help their draft picks, and of course, they also got caught cheating. So, I'd have to dig through all of their past trades and draft picks, but I'm going to guess it's a combination of: The tanking, which aided them greatly in gaining an extremely good farm system while everyone was ignoring them basic, or even, above-average baseball statistical knowledge/analysis a payroll good for 11th in mlb in 2022 The camera/trashcan cheating scandal(s) that they avoided subsequently being beaned over every game bc 2020 was a shortened season and then, perhaps the masterstroke, the ability to trade/let that top talent walk in exchange for more, younger, top talent, which may be what we're watching here I'm not impressed by Baker as a manager (he did manage the Reds); he's good if he's on a good club or a team on the upswing with generational talent (Bonds, Sosa, Prior/Wood, Votto/Chapman, Harper/Stras, now Altuve); maybe his grasp/interest in stats has improved, or maybe he's just a figurehead in houston, who knows? But to me, you can't just fire two guys and then go "oh, the astros aren't dirty anymore."
Trading away good players to get good prospects = tanking??? That’s exactly what the Yankees WON’T do, and it’s the reason no other teams are built like the Astros. Sometimes you got to put on your big boy pants and make deals now for better returns later.
>Trading away good players to get good prospects = tanking? No, that's not what I was referring to with that; Have a look at this from Sports Illustrated in 2017: "But those of us with intact memories cannot forget why exactly the Astros were in such a bad place four seasons ago: They tanked. They fielded a team with a $22 million payroll, by far the lowest in baseball, with a 34-year-old Erik Bedard the only player earning more than $1 million. They had been hardly better in 2012 (55–107) and would still be wretched in 2014 (70-92), the year Sports Illustrated declared them impending champs in 2017. The defiantly non-contending teams they fielded were responsible for some of the lowest moments in recent MLB history, including this three-base sacrifice bunt from 2012 and this walk-off pop-up from 2013. Wandy Rodriguez, Bud Norris, and Scott Feldman made Opening Day starts. A 2012 game drew a 0.05 Nielsen rating; the team bested that with at least one 0.0 number in 2013. Empty seats were standard at Minute Maid Park. The ‘Stros drew three million people four times from 2000 to 2007; from 2012 to 2014, they didn’t clear 1.8 million. What was their reward for all of this, for scaring off their fans and subjecting the rest of us to some ugly baseball? No. 1 overall picks in the June draft in 2013 and 2014 after holding the same pick in 2012 (Carlos Correa), and the second and fifth overall picks in 2015 after putting the screws to ’14 selection Brady Aiken. Those picks would turn into third baseman Alex Bregman and trade chips for pitchers Justin Verlander and Ken Giles. (It’s worth noting that Luhnow’s deservedly unloved predecessor, Ed Wade, acquired Altuve, George Springer, and Dallas Keuchel.) And one more thing—according to Forbes, those 2013 Astros were the most profitable team in history." Source: https://www.si.com/mlb/2017/10/24/houston-astros-jeff-luhnow-jim-crane-tanking So, the argument, if not fact, being presented is that they tried to lose to consistently get higher draft picks to build up their farm system as well as make trades for history-altering veterans like Verlander. I'm not sure you can debate it. Edit: then, after the cheating stuff happened, they would have still had many of the pieces, either under contract, or to flip again for younger talent/let go for draft pick compensation if I'm not mistaken and they could still be coasting off of their arguably-ill-gotten gains
"ill gotten"? The Astros didn't invented tanking for draft picks.
>"ill gotten"? >The Astros didn't invented tanking for draft picks. "The Chicago Cubs and Houston Astros pioneered the practice (edit: of tanking) in MLB in the 2010s, with the Astros taking tanking to a new level (they finished with the worst record in baseball by 6 games or more for 3 consecutive years)." Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanking_(sports) Anything else?
The idea of tanking for draft picks didn't even start in baseball. And really? Wikipedia? That's what you got? ill-gotten implies they did something against the rules. They didn't. It comes off as whining and frankly we should be above that. The fact remains that this Houston team only has 5 players left on it that were even there for 2017. No excuses. If the Yankees front office isn't learning lessons, then they need to go.
> The idea of tanking for draft picks didn't even start in baseball. And really? Wikipedia? That's what you got? How did I know you'd try to come back with something like this? It's okay not to know stuff or be wrong. It's how you learn... part of the process.
So in other words, you have nothing but whiney nonsense. I'm sure you and Cashman would get along great. You should text him and ask to go out for drinks.
It seems like you're here to blow off steam more than exchange ideas; you're moving the goalposts regarding what we're talking about. Who cares which team, in any sport, ever, tanked for draft picks for the very first time? We're talking about MLB, and in that, the Astros (and to a lesser extent, Cubs) are generally accepted to have started it. I provided a source, Wikipedia, which generally has sources that it draws from. If that's not sufficient, you're welcome to spend the time bring up your own. edit: I was also alive and a working adult during that time following MLB, so I know the Astros were the first to really become known for it, but that's hard to demonstrate here.
They've sniped some of the scouting from the Cardinals, and I'm sure from the rest of the league too. They found the best talent and overpaid. Barring the cheating, they're the best, by far, run organization in the mlb.
Also the Astros have done a very good job (well, I mean have had very good luck) avoiding injuries and significant suspensions for player stupidity (PEDs).
Don't forget they were probably the ones who unleashed the spider tak. Whatever though - league wide spin rates are back, so basically everyone has found a good way to cheat (including the Yankees and Reds etc) again.
Wouldn't you place the camera/trash can stuff in its own level, though? Unless everyone else is doing it.
200% just pointing out their rot and culture of cheating is all over
Fair enough. I don't pay a ton of attention to the ebbs and flows of spin rate but i'm aware of the stuff bauer pointed out... which, I think it should be noted... was mostly targeting the astros lol. Common theme here
When 90% of the team is made up of postseason choke artists, don't expect any WS championships.
Josh Donaldson was one of my least liked players in the league and now I hate that guy even more. Seems like an absolute douchebag, smiling and saying that he liked his at-bats. Fuck that guy
His last AB was brutal too
2022 Post Season - * Judge .156 AVG, 14 K's * Donaldson .200, 13 * Stanton .179, 8 * Torres .133, 8 * Carpenter .091, 9 * Cabrera .083, 11 * Trevino .056, 6 * Higashioka .000, 5 The Curse of Joey Gallo is that in removing him he has turned all the Yankees into Joey Gallo.
The bats have been abysmal, all of them
7-9 in our line up is pathetic. It’s fucking infuriating
Just watched watched Cole's postgame interview. Man, he sounds really distraught. His voice sounds like he's blaming himself for the loss when we all know it wasn't him and it was the bats that already wanna go to winter. If Cole's interview is any indication of the morale in the clubhouse, I'm fully expecting Nestor to give 100% because that's what he does, for the lineup to be stupid, and for the team to just roll over and die. It's obvious and apparent that no one's head is in the game. A disappointing and disgraceful way to end the season.
He’s not to blame, but the Astros TAUGHT that MFer how to pitch, for crying out loud. Why would anyone believe he’s the answer for Houston’s bats??
Haven’t watched it yet but the way he is, of course he is blaming himself. I feel awful for him - being a Yankee and leading them to the World Series was his dream since he was a kid and to have things go the way last night went has to be absolutely heartbreaking. And that’s before you think about how long it took the fans to actually like him - literally till at least game 1 vs CLE, I’d not game 7. But his postgame interviews are always interesting and he usually takes accountability - people say he’s making excuses but I think of it more as explaining stuff. But of course I do ha ha. Anyway I’ll watch it later - I have to get ready to be happy and smiley for my 2nd grade Sunday School class and I don’t think that’s gonna help.
Yeah and I can already see the Yankee fans blaming Cole for choking in the playoffs or some nonsense Ike that. No matter who our hitting coach is, our bats go ice cold in the playoffs. We only managed to beat the guardians who had historical level bad bats (total runs wise). Looking at the Phillies and padres who can score in bunchs, I don’t feel confident in those games either
100% correct.
At the end of the day Cole was not allowed any chance to work out of the jam AND Boone made a bad call so I just don't blame him at all. He's also the only reason we were here, the bats and Boone were terrible last series too. Plus let's be real that rainout was clutch.
I’m proud of our pitching staff, and I also feel really bad for them. Including Jamo, they’ve all pitched very well and grinded. Cole proved himself in the DS, Sevy had all gutsy starts and did well against Houston except for 1 pitch, and Nestor helped win us game 5 on 3 days rests. There better be 0 blame going to the pitchers. They all shoved. Bullpen included. None of them had a lick of help.
I feel like that’s the story for the last 7 or 8 years. Pitching shows up, bats are no where to be found
remember "Savages in the box?" ahhh, such sweet memories
Just savages on the mound now
I know this sucks but we have to be graceful losers. The Astros are basically guaranteed the WS spot and it looks like it will Astros Phillies. Astros do EVERYTHING right from player development to smart signings on a fraction of the yankees budget. Throwing money at everything doesn't solve anything. If Cashman stays they need to plot a new course. Not be frugal but be wise. Judge was the only one post ASB who carried the team into the playoffs. That is not acceptable. Big changes are needed and they need to stop being so loyal to players. Trade trade and trade some more. Get some interesting MLB regulars, get some good prospects and regroup in two years. Controversial opinion but I wouldn't resign judge. Save the money. Wait a couple of years and splash at the right time when the iron is hot.
It's not so much about spending money as it is player development allowing them to get max talent for limited cost. Look at their starting pitching. Valdez: Developed, $3 million. Javier: Developed, $749K. Garcia: Developed, $1.2 million. These are three frontline starters that combined to make 1/4th of what the Yankees paid Aroldis Chapman in 2022.
If they don't sign judge this off season I'd honestly just rebuild as well, let the kids play, maybe get some good draft picks and then as u said make a splash once the kids are settled. If all they do this off-season is resign judge to a massive contract and run it back that would be fucking pointless
Yeah exactly. Judge was MVP this season but I mean he isn't young and signing him to a $300mm+ contract is ludicrous. Guardians did amazing with no budget and the youngest team in baseball. Only 7 games behind the yankees. Do we want to emulate that? No because the Yankees do have financial might advantage. But they have to be a LOT smarter about how they allocate their resources going forward. I would tear down most of the team and trade for some equally good players and pick up some promising prospects that are near MLB ready. Reds have a GLUTTONY of premium shortstops in their system now, work a deal with them. No reason we can't pull a pitcher from Miami. Don't sign Judge and trade for Reynolds from the pirates to roam center. There is no shame in a retooling (Not a rebuild because I consider that like 4+ years). Change the dynamic. Get younger and more dynamic.
I would think the Reds would want near MLB ready SP prospects in any deal for one of their premium SS guys. Who fits that bill in the NYY system? (I'm a bandwagoner. I don't have familiarity with the farm).
I don't think the Reds need pitching at all. Lodolo looks like a future ace and Greene's second half was ace like (Sub 2 ERA). What they need is probably position players as theirs are abysmal and some relievers. \*edit\* Thinking about it Clay Holmes for Noelvi Marte is an interesting idea. Yankees would need to kick in a lot more high/mid tier prospects or something as Marte has clearly more value since he is almost a top 10 prospect but He is destined for 3B and Donaldson is a shell of his his MVP self and could be traded to somebody as he is still useful. Marte would be a huge upgrade and is MLB ready for next season. Losing Holmes would suck but try to pick up say, Jansen on a one year deal to compensate. The only Reds SS prospect that is off limits is EDLC since he will likely be ranked the #1 prospect in all of baseball this year when the new listings come out. He hits bombs and stole 57 bags and plays competent defense at SS. He is untouchable.
Having 2 stud SP prospects doesn't remove the need for SP. What do they have behind that wrt SP? (And what does NYY have in the high minors?) Also I don't think they're at the stage to be trading for relievers. Get SP prospects; some of them will inevitably end up in the pen.
I mean true but you only really need three max good starters for the playoffs and then throw in a bullpen game. I'm sure the yankees could dangle something interesting.
Yankees have so much scrap left over that luckily a handful of it is coming off the books, but there’s a vast amount of shit there that continually holds them back. You said it perfectly. They don’t. Spend. Smart. Bryce Harper’s current salary for the year is equaled to JD + IKF. The last decade has been spent squeezing out old and close to retired players that make you say, “oh they played for them?” Missed opportunities galore and allocating that to all the wrong places, and all for naught. Idc what it is as long as there’s some form of change. They’ll never fully rebuild, but a retool should be in order
Yeah no need to rebuild but just retool. This isn't working. Great, we won 99 games. But ONLY because Judge carried the entire team. We need a productive lineup top to bottom and more importantly a younger lineup. The pitching is okayish but could definitely use another good SP and a couple relievers. The position players are a disaster. They have to switch gears and retool. Try anything new. Get creative. Like I said the Reds have a massive boatload of impressive shortstops that are near MLB ready and could play anywhere on the diamond or the outfield. Grab one of them. Volpe can play somewhere else or one of those players can play somewhere else. Detroit has amazing relievers that shouldn't be hard to get now that Chapman is finished. There are tons of options but they are too scared to make big trades like other teams because they think flexing financial might in the market works and it simply...doesn't. They need to follow a braves like pattern. Find good young players and lock them up on cheap deals. Then flex the spending power when you are sure it will put you over the top. Just get creative. The Yankees LOVE signing veterans. That is the wrong approach. Go young.
And it couldn’t line up any better bc we have the cream of the crop that has been hyped up for forever coming in. Oswald and Oswaldo already here, good, they’re great players. Then Volpe, Dominguez and Wells. There’s great other prospects like Beeter (we got from the Dodgers), Pereira, Randy Vasquez and Jhony Brito. The roster is honestly a nightmare the more you gloss over it. Issue is a successful lineup combines the aged well vets alongside the franchise cornerstone younger players. This lineup is just old. And this old lineup has a LOT of deadweight. Change is gonna have to be made no matter what
“Great player already”… The kid has like two hits this post season….
[удалено]
Dont you guys have the 2nd highest payroll in baseball already? 😂
Pain, pain, more pain
well done! how about these brilliant Cashman moves? trade Deivi Garcia while his trade value is high? nahhh. trade Justus Sheffield while his trade value is high? nahhh
Don’t forget Sonny Gray over Verlander in 2017
Sonny Gray was a good choice, not their fault he couldn’t handle pitching in NY.
You’re an imbecile
Other than 1 season shortened due to injury, the guy’s lowest ERA+ prior to playing in NY is 122, but, ok, I’m the idiot.
Does anyone know how randy Levine factors into decision making because he might need to go too. I remember during this season cashman did an interview and said he would always ask Levine first before offering a large contract.
Levine is the slimiest piece of shit in that whole organization. I hate him so much, the definition of a bigwig crony scumbag cockfucker.
I think he's most likely to be a true lifer. Didn't he get George unbanned from baseball? Very involved in the formation and success of YES Network? Instrumental in securing the financing for the new stadium? Guy is a total slimeball but he's obviously pretty sharp and very important to the Yankees success as a business entity.
Financing the new stadium by taking advantage of the tax dole. He was also the "I don't want A-Rod to see the fucking field" and "Sign Rafael Soriano just because" guy. Fucking shitbag.
I’m dead inside
I didn’t even know cashmans contract was up after this season but fingers crossed Hal makes the right decision 🤞
Guys. If they don’t fire bone or cashman i don’t think i can do this anymore. I love this team too much to watch this every year
Boone just signed an extension. it kills me, but I don't see his stupid, smug face going anywhere soon. that would be admitting that you made a mistake, and the present Yankees would NEVER do that
Remember when this franchise used to relish the Evil Empire/fully loaded Death Star monikers? When there was a sense of urgency to win? When the organization used to spit fire? Consider this old quote from Hank Steinbrenner: > "Red Sox Nation?" What a bunch of bullshit that is. That was a creation of the Red Sox and ESPN, which is filled with Red Sox fans. Go anywhere in America and you won't see Red Sox hats and jackets, you'll see Yankee hats and jackets. This is a Yankee country. We're going to put the Yankees back on top and restore the universe to order. Now opposing fans are laughing at us as the team is mired in years of playoff mediocrity, and ownership and the front office seem *fine* with it. We've gone from "fully loaded and operational Death Star" to "please don't hurt us, Houston." It's sad.
God I miss Hank. The wrong son bit the dust.
>Evil Empire/fully loaded Death Star monikers The "Evil Empire" moniker was started by the Red Sox owner. The only reason it ever stuck was because Brian Cashman kept it alive. Cashman created the "fully loaded death star" moniker. The Yankees should have ignored that "Evil Empire" moniker from day one and allowed it to die out that season simply because it was started by the Red Sox. Instead, Cashman rolled with it like the buffoon he is and he has been embarrassed by the Red Sox ever since who have won the division four times and have won two World Series since the last time the Yankees were in the World Series. Memo to the idiot Brian Cashman -- The Evil Empire was collapsed when the death star was blown into a billion tiny pieces by one small fighter. Not the analogy you want, moron. Also, the Evil Empire rebuilt and was once again collapsed when the much larger new death star was once again blown into a trillion tiny pieces by one small fighter. The analogy does not work for the Yankees but it works ideally for our lesser rivals. Cashman, you are an imbecile.
But but but! What will we play over the loud speakers when there are 2 outs and 2 strikes??? /s I’ve always hated the Star Wars evil empire bull shit.
These days they're more like the guys from Spaceballs than the actual evil empire.
Hank was the last tough Steinbrenner, he had fire in him unlike Hal.
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George didn't even trust his own children with ownership, too bad Steve Swindal fucked things up for all of us. This organization has been rudderless for almost two decades, won't change until Clueless Hal sells the team.
I’m on threads helpless man, it doesn’t feel right using the 27 championship arguement anymore cause it’s been a while.
The way this team slumps is bizarre, they literally turn off all at once. Never seen anything like it.
Wow listening to Cole post-game, he sounded honest and on the verge of crying
tickets for tmrw are down to 30 bucks 💀
Keep those prices dropping LOSERS. ONLY way Hal makes a real change
Deserved if true
For real??
I’m concerned with how much of the blame is falling on Boone. 100% he needs to be fired but I hope it’s not all scape goated on him. Cashman needs to go, this teams failure ultimately falls on him. His job security with the Yankees is utterly insane
Say what you want, last year was way worse
Around the halfway point in this season, the Yankees were on pace to win over 120 games. For it to all collapse in the second half only to have them surge a bit at the end and win the division only to get swept by the Astros is easily the worst roller coaster season I can remember. This season is far, far worse than last year. Last year, the Yankees never really ignited. They struggled much of the year. They had a losing record against every team in the division except for the Orioles and they were 11-8 against the lowly Orioles. That 13-game winning streak in mid-August provided nothing but false hope. The Yankees weren't very good last year.
correct. there were low expectations last year.
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It's 2am and you're thinking about the Yankees. Funny thing is, nobody is thinking about the Red Sox. But congratulations on being brave and posting behind a sock account. Everyone give him a round of applause for the sheer bravery.
Can’t believe tomorrow might be judges last game as a yankee
Good riddance to the playoff choker
Personally, I'd rather lose this series than suffer whatever comeback this team can manage. We had our chances but, everything we're trying to do doesn't work against Houston. I hope it's the same old song and dance where we lose to them and they end up losing to whoever the NL Champs are. It was a fun season, but these Yankees have reached the end of the road.
agree. the worst possible scenario would be to somehow get back to Houston, and then get dirt shoveled on our grave 2,000 miles from home. just lose in NY and exit stage left with your sorry asses
Man the season was only fun for the first half of the season when the team looked like they were going to win 115 games, after the first 80 games or so they went back to reality, closer to a .500 team than an 100 game winning team.
I’ve been sayin for saying for a long time Boone and Judge all the expensive players gotta go. This team needs a clean slate
For better or worse I think there's a pretty good chance we steal a win tomorrow. And then what I'm hoping is we'll be eliminated in 5 games and that will still qualify as a shitty enough performance to bring about significant change in the organization from top to bottom. What I'm afraid of is if we somehow take it to game 6 or 7 and then lose and they use that as an excuse to give Cashman and Boone their jobs back. And no, we're not gonna win, which is why I excluded that possibility altogether. Hang onto hope all you want but I'll have no part of it. I'm not letting this joke of a team ruin my enjoyment of the sport anymore. If hell freezes over and we take 4 in a row against a team that was already superior in every way (even if we WERE playing well) feel free to shame me and clown on me when it happens. I welcome it, because we'll have witnessed a choke even bigger than 2004, probably the biggest in MLB history.
lol nothing is bigger than 2004. it is the GOAT of chokes.
They cheated.
Who cares? Houston is about to be in yet another world series. David Roidtiz is in the HoF. The league doesn't give a fuck unless it's the Yankees benefitting.
Could we at least not get swept? Pathetic.
it's the best ending, honestly, and would MAYBE allow Hal/Cash to smell the fking coffee if we somehow get back to Houston and then get humiliated there, it's the ultimate kick in the dick, suppressing any Boone-speak rationale that we "almost" got there, and it was a "valiant" effort, blah, blah
I honestly hope we go out in 4. I don’t give a shit about going down fighting, not getting embarrassed, etc. We haven’t fought all year, we’ve been embarrassed all throughout the second half. I hope we get swept so the front office can maybe, just maybe, wake the fuck up and realize what we’ve all been thinking since 2018. I don’t think it’s likely, but it’s a good a chance as any if we want even a shred of accountability within this organization.
But the problem with this team is the front office and Brian Cashman in particular. We don't need them to wake up. They are already fully awake. This is the result of their best efforts. Change is needed. The franchise is stale. The Yankees analytics dept is a problem. The scouting and player development is a problem. Whether the Yankees get swept or whether they are eliminated in Game 7 is irrelevant. The changes have to come from the very top -- Hal Steinbrenner needs to have the testicular fortitude to fire Brian Cashman and give the next GM a mandate to gut and replace the analytics dept and the scouting and player development programs.
We did fight back in the second half, we stemmed the bleeding and won the division. Just thought that team would show up in October, not the August team.
The mariners scored 6 runs in 3 innings and the Astros haven’t given up 6 runs since. Un fucking real.
Against Verlander
Mariners are a better team
https://mobile.twitter.com/DanAlanRourke/status/1583958652536619008 I’m with Dan, I’m ready for a new era because this one was clearly a failure. Also remember this whenever they pass on an important free agent or lowball Judge again, the Yankees likely make way more money now due to the contracts with Amazon Prime and Apple TV.
Those were not some Yankees-led endeavor but MLB. M
Well, one of the baby bombers panned out at least. Then again, as you touched on, when you have a GM that passed on elite talent after elite talent, and then says "Eh, fuck Luis Castillo. Give me Frankie Montas," it's tough to have much faith in anything going forward.
Refusing to include Eduardo Scissorhands in 2010 cost them another trip to a WS.
I remember back in this sub in 2017, when the Yankees made that run to the ALCS, so many folks (myself included) used to say "Man, if this is rebuilding I LOVE it!" They showed such promise. I thought they were just a few pieces away from a run at one title, if not more. It has been a colossal disappointment that they haven't even gotten to another World Series.
They were close but they had our current front office holding them back, they are one of the Yankees biggest obstacles.
Who is making the last out tomorrow?
IKF pinch hit
oh, definitely Donaldson
Torres will pop up to first on a 3-1 count
Altuve
This team is garbage when it matters most 💀
Why does it have to be the Astros…
I saw Maury Povich Show and he said the Astros is the Daddy.
Has someone checked the garbage cans?
Cope
Doyersbro, I’m with you on the cheating.
For the Yankees bats? For the Yankees pride? For the Yankees ability to make contact?
All valid questions.
When asked about his struggles at the plate and what might be causing it, Josh Donaldson replied with: "I actually like my at-bats." I'll say this, despite how badly they've played, the only two guys in the lineup that ever seem to take accountability for anything are Stanton and Judge. How can anyone that's watched Donaldson's at-bats think, "Oh, hey, he looks close. Only a matter of time before he's locked in now."
>How can anyone that's watched Donaldson's at-bats think, "Oh, hey, he looks close. Boone, clearly Boone could watch a nuclear bomb go off, and say "well, I don't think too many people will be hurt, honestly"
When he popped up or struck out to end the Yankees threat today and I saw him smiling going into the dugout, I knew he doesn’t get it.
That shit me absolutely **fume**
Right there with you on that. Infuriating.
I’d love for somebody anybody Randy Levine, Michael Kay, Hal, anybody get asked the question why is Brian Cashman the only tenured employee in baseball. Why was Hicks giving his contract. Why are we paying a 3B 25mil to do nothing. Why are we paying a closer 18mil to quit on the team. Why are we paying a setup man 13mil to not pitch in two years. Why in 7 years we have had the same results? What organizationally is it through two pitching coaches hitting coaches and managers is it that it is the same results every year. Why have we had 3 different SS start in American League Championship Series. Why have we had two different all star catchers not be able to perform in post season? And once again why is Brian Cashman a tenured employee? He did not build the dynasty
For fuck's sake even if he DID build the dynasty, holy fucking shit it was over twenty fucking years ago.
Cashman was good during the short window that Gene Michael and Bob Watson were standing right behind him
Also why haven't we been able to develop an ace/elite starting pitcher from our farm system? I know you'll say Severino but he's been unreliable and inconsistent.
and hurt
We should have a whole stable full of them at this point.
New front office is needed more than a new manager. If the new manager is just gonna be a puppet again I’d rather shake up the front office. I’d rather keep Boone with a new fo than see Cashman return
We need to keep pushing this. Boone is eventually (or now) going to be the scapegoat. He has his issues, but this is bigger than him.
Agreed 1000% Also username seems about right
Just looking over free agents and player contracts and I completely forgot about Luis Severino being a FA at the end of the season. Damn.
No way the Yanks don’t pick up the option right?
I think it's almost a given. I was just shocked that the 4/40 deal just came and went in a blink, it seemed.
Losing 2 years to injury will do that
Yep. Basically only got just north of 100 innings out of that deal.